Mike Luckovich

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 8:09 AM | Link to this

Maybe he can apologize and “make it all better,” like Vick.

Or does that only work for democrats and their rube following?

~~~~~

You’re kidding me right?:

{{{{NBA’s Artest offers Vick support-Urinal Sports section}}}}

{{{{But then a fan threw a full drink cup at Artest, hitting him near the neck. He instantly leapt several rows into the stands, trading punches with fans along the way, Police and guards finally restored order as Artest was dragged from the court. The resulting suspension Artest drew from NBA commissioner David Stern sidelined him for the rest of the season and cost him $5 million in salary.}}}}

Is this some brain dead thing at the Urinal?

~~~~~

We put 127 Billion dollars into their hands and still they whine. 127 BILLION. Am I talking about the Iraqis, who have to rebuild their country in the midst of foreign terrorist meddling? Nope, it’s the Professional cry babies in New Orleans, who have to juggle their “rebuilding” around the parade and party schedule:

{{{{Think of this: The idea of using federal money to rebuild cities is the quintessential liberal vision. And given the dreadful results in New Orleans, we can say that the government’s $127 billion check represents the quintessential failure of that liberal vision. Hillary Clinton calls this sort of reckless spending “government investment.” And that’s just what’s in store for America if she wins the White House next year.}}}}

That’s $425,000 PER PERSON. And they want more. And toady liberals like luckovich see a chance to bash Bush, it doesn’t matter squat to him how much this cost ALL Americans, as long as democrats can score stupid political points.

Think of this: Louisiana is run by a democrat governor, N.O. has a democrat mayor, WTF did they do with 127 BILLION DOLLARS??????

Isn’t that the real question?

They’re still bit-ching about the levees, housing, crime, it’s like the day after the hurricane.

Where are the adults at?

getalife?

~~~~~~

{{{{HILLARY TO GIVE BACK CASH FROM FUGITIVE FUNDRAISER}}}}

Um, what fundraiser cash?

See, I only read the AJC and they never said anything about Hillary taking campaign contributions from the Chinese using a false address.

I wonder why that is?

Are they nothing but a blind folded pep rally for Clinton 08?

By ed lorenzo

August 30, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

Looking Into the Immediate Future

As professional second guessers, we are pleased to submit a realistic view of the forthcoming presentations to the President, Congress and the US public of the current alternatives to consider in Iraq. The morning saw a number of armored limos arriving at the Congress grounds and discharging be-medaled generals and admirals, aides and a number of enlisted men of various ranks. Amid the relocation of cameras, microphones and pencil pushers, the main Congress chamber resembled the pre-prom activity of an event in Oak City, Oregon.

We hear and record for posterity the following: PRESIDENT: “What say Generals? What about Iraq?” PETRAUES: “Interesting question. What say General Pace?” GENERAL PACE: “Yes. How about it Admiral Fallon?” ADM FALLON: “Let us hear from you General Casey” GENERAL CASEY: “You were saying Mister Secretary Gates?’ SECRETARY GATES: “Ready Miss Perkins? MISS PERKINS:: “Colonel Nash, we are listening” COL NASH: “Captain Zellner, we await your words” CPT. ZELLNER: “ Sargeant Cerbone, we are ready for you” CAPT CERBONE: “ Sargeant York, please tell us” SGT. YORK: “Corporal Ferguson, your turn!” CORPORAL FERGUSON: “Hey! Manolo, the summary of the presentation, chop, chop!” PFC MANOLO TOVAR ESCOBAR: “Señor Presidente, Grandes Jefes, ilustres Senadores, miembros de los medios de comunicación y público en general. He llegado a la conclusión de que esta condenada guerra me está perjudicando. No he recogido lechugas en seis meses, el jardín de mi casa se asemeja a las selvas del Amazonas y no he envasado un pollo en seis meses! Propongo un cese inmediato y una recompensa a cada soldado de cien mil dólares y un nuevo “lawnmower”. He dicho!”

By Eric

August 30, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

YEEHAW!!!! I just hope we can survive 16 more months of this hell.

By candide

August 30, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

Poor Richard Jewell, I feel for him. The media tried but failed to do him in. What apparently finally got him was Southern cooking!

By Hillary 08

August 30, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Yep, when Hillary takes over New Orleans will be renamed Camelot.

By Goldie

August 30, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

16 months — that’s like 7-1/2 dog years, or an eternity in human years!

By Paul

August 30, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

hey getalife

This one’s for you! What’s even funnier is it was broadcast during one of Fox’s highest rated news shows - you still gotta laugh at it!

Link: Sen Larry Craig to Pres Bill Clinton - “You’re a naughty boy”

By @@

August 30, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

I recently watched a documentary on Katrina “victims”? nooooo, I would classify them as Katrina “survivors”.

An elderly woman and her 19 year old grandaughter. Smiling, joking and living in their home in the lower ninth ward. The grandmother had been a long-time activist for the lower ninth…long before Katrina hit. Who was she appealing to? Mayor Ray Nagin and the city council members, but to no avail obviously.

Anyhoo, the grandaughter and her grandmother’s appeal was to the residents. “Come back, roll up your sleeves and get your homes and properties cleaned up. You’re our neighbors.”

“Me and my grandma did it, so can you” proclaimed the young 19 year old.

Impressive! I still smile when I think of them. If I was a resident of NOLA, Grandma and her grandaughter would get my vote should they ever decide to run for Mayor.

By getalife

August 30, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

No Paul,

That was creepy.

If you turn off faux and turn on KO, this is hilarious

He read the police report Dragnet style.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Some of the numbers for Katrina just don’t make sense - especially the “Reps don’t do enough, send money” sentiments.

Most estimates I’ve seen put Katrina damage at $100 billion - some bump to $125 billion (no info on how that was calculated).

But the Fed gov’t has provided $114 billion so far. The communities have used $96 billion.

Louisiana got $10.4 billion for housing grants. Two years later, 25 percent is still not spent.

By most accounts, Mississippi has done a far better job of it than Louisiana. Louisiana’s ineffective politics, corruption and incompetence have cost the citizens.

It appears the Bush Administration came through with the dollars. Louisiana’s state and local governments haven’t done a very good job in allocating them. Too bad for the folks -

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Um, drum roll please:

Survey: Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory- Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers “implicit” endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no “consensus.”

Let the smearing begin.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

getalife

They’re both pretty darn creepy (Sen Craig’s expression wins the creepiness award) - but both are funnier than some of the acts on America’s Top Comic!

By Dubya

August 30, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Good morning all you naughty, naughty, nasty people. What wisdom will our Repug friends vomit up here today??

Let’s get started, shall we?

Larry Craig is just the stupid Republican version of…Jeffrey Dahmer.

By Jesus

August 30, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

@@, That’s a nice story. I was pretty outraged at the response right after the hurricane, that was truly a low point in our country’s history. It broke my heart to see all that misery, AND in the weeks afterwards, I hated to see the blame game. I think EVERYONE dropped the gun on that.

BUT NOW, I think people like you described are truly heroes. They realized that if something was going to get done, they had to do it themselves and they are to be commended.

It’s a very sad situation down there, but unfortunately, it was too widespread and there just isn’t much that can be done. Waiting on insurance claims (which will never come through because insurance companies are arms of the devil, IMHO) and FEMA to help, in the meantime, you have to pick yourself up.

Insurance companies can not pay for all of that damage because they would go bankrupt and we certainly couldn’t have that /sarc/. The government is no use because we, well, we know where all the $$ is going. Those are the things that people just don’t want to realize or even talk about.

Now, before anyone yells at me - I know that many of these people had nothing to begin with and to ask them to rebuild is simply absurd - and this problem is alot more complicated, with many, many layers of problems.

However, this reminds me of a story, of course - I have a relative who went through a really terrible divorce. The husband moved out and trashed the yard - threw all kinds of crap in the yard, trashed the inside of the house, etc. My family were all outraged at this behavior. Six weeks later, my relative was still griping about the mess, but had done absolutely nothing herself to clean it up (I was told another outraged relative with lots of cash was hiring someone to clean it up - but that didn’t happen - and I didn’t know that had fallen through).

So, after six weeks I realized the mess was still there and was kind of put out with my cousin and told her that b*** about the mess was not going to clean it up. She was simply overwhelmed and traumatized, but blaming the outrageous behavior of her ex-husband was not going to fix the fact that she had broken glass and other dangerous material out in her yard and home. So, we went and helped her, and she began to feel better about things, and now her life is somewhat normal again - a new kind of “normal.”

By Midori

August 30, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Paul/Getalife,

You see how excited Craig became when he fantasized about Clinton?

By tiff

August 30, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Mike, I’ve got news for ya. Katrina victims aren’t the only ones happy about this. Almost all of the money sent to New Orleans was spent on the National Guard, it went right back to the government. The people received very little of that money, Bush came through with the money but look what they had to spend it on. The local government simply worked with what they had. And of course the other states have done better, they simply did not have the devastation that New Orleans had. That’s like comparing a twenty-car-pile-up to a fender-bender, it’s just not the same. It’s easy to blame when you don’t know all the facts.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Duh, Global warming is like terrorism and fixing the Gulf Coast after Katrina. There is no general consensus in the scientific community because there is no “ONE” theory, or solution to the problem.

A majority of scientists know it’s happening, where they disagree is how to fix it.

By getalife

August 30, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Well, the rebuilding czar Nagin hired is lying about what is rebuilt.

I think they should give weelky progress reports to keep them honest. How much money they actually got and spent.

Updates on Hospitals built, schools, levees, etc…. Taking their word for it is a lesson learned from w.

Lakeside is rebuilding but the poor will not. The homeless have set up a refugee zone outside city hall.

[The GAO leaked this report before w could get his hands on it] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/29/AR2007082902434.html?hpid=topnews)

It shows the surge has failed but w will stay the course until he leaves and get more billions until he reaches the trillion wasted.

By georgia 74

August 30, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

Great toon Mike. Hillary 08’

By Paul

August 30, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

Dubya 9:50

[[What wisdom will our Repug friends vomit up here today??]]

Sounds like you beat them to it -

Bosch

Emotional trauma can shut down the system faster than physical trauma. I hope your relative found a good psychologist/counselor.

Midori

Ewwwwwww! Creepiness to infinity!!!!!!!!!

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

{{{{By Bosch August 30, 2007 10:06 AM A majority of scientists know it’s happening, where they disagree is how to fix it.}}}}

You reckon?

Maybe if this was caused by man and CO2 or maybe man and his farts, it would be an easy thing to solve, we would take al-Gore’s advice and kill off half of humanity or what ever it is he wants us to do.

But seeing how it’s most likely the “fault” of the Sun, after all the climate of Mar’s is warming at the same rate that Earth’s is, I can fully understand why most scientists don’t know “how to fix it.”

Turning off the Sun won’t be easy.

Hey, maybe we could just calm the hysterics down and wait for this normal solar cycle to pass, just like it has for century after century.

Duh.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Paul, Yes, the lesson is that many times you can’t rely on anyone but yourself. With the Katrina victims/survivors whatever you choose to call them, waiting on the insurance companies and the government for help - well, you could be waiting a long time. Now, I know that alot of these people have absolutely no resources (money), and that is a whole other issue, but sometimes doing something, anything to help yourself makes all the difference.

Yes, my cousin is much better thanks to support from family and friends, and a good shrink! Getting rid of her low-life ex-husband helped alot too, it just took about 20 years for her to figure that out.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Duh, Whatever - you keep believing your fairy tales and leave the real work of the problem to the experts.

By Sen. Larry "Jaws" Craig

August 30, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

I did nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing wrong. I’m a good Christian family values guy. I’ve spent my life hunting down perverts. Just look at my record.

By mm

August 30, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Duh,

The sun’s solar cycle is 11 years. We are currently at the low point of the cycle. It will increase for the next 5.5 years.

So if it is at the low point, why is it so hot? And how hot will it be in 5.5 years?

By raisedanidiot

August 30, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

I’m not gonna be around much today, but I gotta say, this is my favorite cartoon in a while, ML! I laughed out loud. Bush’s knack to seize photo-ops in the midst of disaster was bringing up vomit in my throat yesterday…cough cough…ugh!

By George

August 30, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Dems talk a good game about Gays but Repubs play a good game with Gays.

By brother_unknown

August 30, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

The real reason to panic is that not one of the candidates of any party has offered a plan for rebuilding New Orleans, recovering the economy, or finding jobs for the returning veterans.

By brother_unknown

August 30, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

The real reason to panic is that not one of the candidates of any party has offered a plan for rebuilding New Orleans, recovering the economy, or finding jobs for the returning veterans.

By Midori

August 30, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Bush’s response to Katrina in pictures

By JDE

August 30, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

After 24 months you stop being considered a victim and start being referred to as lazy, useless and dependent on the govt to survive.

By IN THE NEWS

August 30, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

How is it done? How do you screw the taxpayer for millions, get away with it and then ride off into the sunset with one middle finger extended, the other wrapped around a chilled martini? Ask Earnest O. Robbins — he knows all about being a successful contractor in Iraq.

By @@

August 30, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

There was an interesting analysis at Stratfor as it relates to the political aftermath of Katrina. Simply stated…

(((The disaster in New Orleans has not changed American politics. The final question is whether it will; in other words, whether Edwards is simply this year’s lone progressive candidate — the Howard Dean of 2008.)))

(((The impediment to the revival of a strong liberal wing of the Democratic Party is the popular view that liberal issues have no place in American politics — or at least that liberal Democrats are overly idealistic and therefore cannot get things done in Washington.)))

(((The civil rights community, meanwhile, failed to use Katrina to convince Americans that a significant and unjust racial divide persists in the United States and is actively maintained in parts of the country.)))

Bottom line, the Democrats have sold out the poor in New Orleans in the interest of global warming and energy issues. Well, there is the lone John Edwards, but even he has some credibility issues.

(((As a presidential candidate, Democrat John Edwards has regularly attacked subprime lenders, particularly those that have filed foreclosure suits against victims of Hurricane Katrina. But as an investor, Mr. Edwards has ties to lenders foreclosing on Katrina victims.)))

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…

The only value the poor have to the Democratic party is their usefulness during elections. It really is disgusting. Promises made…promises broken…promises swept under the rug.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Brother, The thing about New Orleans, it’s impossible, it will take YEARS to rebuild - and New Orleans will never be rebuilt with government money.

IMHO, Americans need to wake up and take a long hard look at themselves. Our economy is in the shape it is in because we live on credit, there is nothing to back up anything. Not just your average Joe citizen, but the government as well. Everything is based on false money - from the stock market to credit cards, there is no cold hard cash or assets to back up anything.

Jobs? Good lord, that’s a whole other blog discussion.

By IN THE NEWS

August 30, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

The Government Accountability Office will give a classified report on Thursday saying the surge fails to meet at least 13 of 18 benchmarks. The person who leaked the report says they did so in case the White House waters down the findings.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

@@, It truly amazes me that you can say the Democrats sold out the poor in New Orleans.

Can you explain your Stratford analysis a little better? The examples you posted simply do not support your hypothesis about the Democrats.

And please explain to us all how your Republican party helps the poor more than the Democrats do.

By luckovichisaheadcase

August 30, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Why is it that so few people in Mississippi have the same complaints as those in New Orleans when the destruction was much more severe? The answer is simple - the difference in the public officials on the LOCAL level. Haley Barbour has been wonderful. Nagin and Blanco are typical Democrat incompetents! Hence Jindhal has a 50 point lead in the polls in the upcoming governor’s race.

I have visited NO several times since Katrina and she is not in a shambles and things seemed pretty much back to normal for most of the city. The city was already a mess because of corruption, benign and not so benign neglect from state and local officials for years, so to blame all of the misery on the Bush Administration makes about as much sense as the idiots who used to blame the mess in Vietnam on Eisenhower!

By JDE

August 30, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Republicans and Dems allocate a large percentage of our federal budget to social programs; Dems would allocate more if they would;thankfully the Republicans keep them from picking our pockets clean. The best way to help the poor is to give them incentives to get off their rear.

The following are facts about persons defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau, taken from a variety of government reports:

*46 percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

*80 percent of poor households have air conditioning.

*Only six percent of poor households are overcrowded; two thirds have more than two rooms per person.

*The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

*Nearly three quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.

*97 percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

*78 percent have a VCR or DVD player.

*62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

89 percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.

Being poor is a mindset. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjE3NTA4Yjc0NjQxMDA4ZjhlZjczMWM0YWNlM2JhOTg=

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Mr. Head case, It’s also idiotic to blame the Democratic Party, and them alone, for the mess in New Orleans.

Everybody dropped the ball, you can’t blame the problems on one person, office, or political party. The destruction was too big and too severe and to continuing to play the blame game is simply not productive or effective in solving the problems.

By Midori

August 30, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

this is why Mississippi got better reaction from Washington

and right now Barbour is being investigated for his family members benefitting from Katrina contracts.

Who’s the head case?

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

From Dimmie’s 11:50 link:

{{{{A GAO spokesman declined to comment on the report before it is released. The 69-page draft, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, is still undergoing review at the Defense Department, which may ask that parts of it be classified or request changes in its conclusions. The person who provided the draft report to The Post said it was being conveyed from a government official who feared that its pessimistic conclusions would be watered down in the final version.}}}}

I’m real sure that the leaker isn’t some goony liberal bureaucrat trying to undermine the United States from within, no, this is probably some American patriot on the ground in Iraq, leaking classified government secrets.

And what about the Post’s eagerness to leak classified government secrets?

Maybe if we were to hang their editor like the law calls for, other traitors would stop aiding Al Qaeda, no?

{{{{Asked to comment on the GAO draft, White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said, “General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker are there on the ground every day in Iraq, and it’s important to wait to hear what they have to say.”}}}}

No, you mean wait and hear from the people actually conducting the surge, why, isn’t that a novel idea?

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

“Being poor is a mindset” -Brilliant

By Midori

August 30, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

and the national review is low grade toilet paper.

By mm

August 30, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Cartoonists take on Senator Craig

By JDE

August 30, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

So what do you suggest we read or listen to for our news Midori? Air America? PBS? Or do you subscribe to some other liberal rag that we should be aware of?

By steve-o

August 30, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

JDE,

You are truly shameless.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

Midori, By that account, I’m poor, are you? Our poor are the best poor people around! USA, USA, USA - where even our poor people are the best!

By Midori

August 30, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

JDE,

How about a publication that doesn’t pull “facts” out of its a$$?

That would be a good start.

National Reveiw can’t hold a candle to PBS. Or Air America. Or the National Enquirer.

By Midori

August 30, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Steve-0,

also a blithering, kool aid drinking idiot.

By Midori

August 30, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

poverty makes the world go round.

and round.

and round.

wheeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

By JDE

August 30, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Steve-O, your response was classic Democrat: throw an insult at your detractors without offering up anything of substance. Let me hear your words of wisdom there Chief.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

Midori and steve-o, It looks like I’m going to have to break it to my kids tonight - we’re poor, dammit and I thought things were going so well.

Please pray for me and my family as we go through this rough period.

BTW,I forgot to add the /sarc/ thing at the end of my “brilliant” statement above.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

JDE, All kidding aside, I do agree with you to some degree that people must be willing to help themselves - hence my earlier posts. I think everyone agrees with that to some degree, it’s just not as black and white as you make it out.

By Jesus of Nazereth

August 30, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me.

By JDE

August 30, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

And let’s don’t leave out Steve-O’s senior advisor Midori… Let me ask you a question Einstein, why is it that you never see poor people of Asian, Indian, or even Middle Eastern descent in this country? Its because they know that anyone who works hard can make it in this country; yourself included. They don’t rely on a govt handout like the poor do; they rely on no one except themselves. Those born in foreign countries know what poor people go through. Again, poverty is a mindset. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you and Steve-O are youngsters barely earning minimum wage, who have never had to fill out anything more complicated than a 10W-40 at tax time. When you do, you’ll start noticing where your taxes go.

By @@

August 30, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Bosch:

I don’t know if this posted or not, I was interrupted by a phone call.

When have you ever seen the Republican Party stand on a platform that divides America based on income, class or race? To the contrary…they advocate personal responsibility. Something that you just did ^^^ up there. Opportunity can be offered to individuals, but it’s the individual who has to grab it and build on it.

The Democratic Party has always advocated government assistance. The majority of America’s poor vote Democrat. What would possibly motivate the Democrats to deliver them from poverty when their votes are dependant on their income status.

I just can’t understand why the poor can’t see through the obvious unless, of course, it’s their lack of education. Well crap, the education in this country has been run through the liberal wringer for the last 40 years. Unfortunately it was allowed to wring the personal incentive to achieve out of the most vulnerable among us.

Believe me I’ve got plenty of idealistic friends who would never vote any ticket other than Democrat. You can’t get them to tell you how their vote has helped the poor among us, it just makes them feel good thinking that it might.

I prefer to invest in local initiatives for the poor directly rather than have it pass through the hands of self-serving politicians or incompetent, self-serving bureaucrats overseeing government programs.

By Jesus of Nazereth

August 30, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

JDE

You are one of my great dissapointments.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

JDE, Government handouts come in many forms. Think military contractors. Think Haliburton. Think bail outs to businesses (remember the Savings and Loan thing). Think airlines. Think foreclosures, think bankruptcy.

I know some people (scumbags in my opinion) who have filed for bankruptcy FOUR times - and drive Mercedes, send their children to private school, belong to a local country club, and live in 7000 square foot house (estimate, mind you, the house is freaking huge). Are these people poor?

Were you born in the USA? If so, please don’t speak for those born abroad and what they know and don’t know about being poor.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

@@, The Democrats have always advocated government assistance? Do you mean like Clinton’s welfare reform?

Look, I see your point. I’m all about personal responsibility. I just think that it’s hypocritical for either party to make sweeping generalizations or blame the other side for problems. Sometimes problems, like Katrina recovery, is just too big, and it’s totally unAmerican to just admit that some thing can’t be fixed — immediately that is. If people suffer, then dammit some one has to pay or be blamed for it!

When you make statements like “The Democratic Party has ALWAYS {insert whatever here}” it just seems to me, in my opinion, that it is disingenuous when both sides have done some pretty disturbing things over the years.

By luckovichisaheadcase

August 30, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Head Case - Your pseudo-name jacking to respond is both childish and bewildering! Nevertheless, I was not blaming the Democrat Party, I was blaming Democrat party officials on the local and state level for what has gone on for years. I was making that point because head cases like Luckovich want to lay all of the blame at the president’s feet. However, the mess after Katrina has been handled well in Mississippi and very poorly in Louisiana. Bush carried both states by wide margins. However, Louisiana was hijacked again by the corrupt Edwards Democrat political machine and look what happened. Mississippi seems to be leaving that part of its history behind, I hope.

Again, blaming Bush for that mess is a simple Democrat knee-jerk (or should I say just plain jerk) reaction to everything that has gone wrong since January 20, 2001. Democrats need to accept responsibility when they screw up, just as Republicans are taken to task when they do!!

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

@@, Another thing before I head out for a bit -

“I prefer to invest in local initiatives for the poor directly rather than have it pass through the hands of self-serving politicians or incompetent, self-serving bureaucrats overseeing government programs.”

I can agree with that, but just remember politicians and bureaucrats in charge of these incentives are from BOTH parties, not just the Democrats.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Headcase,

“Democrats need to accept responsibility when they screw up”

Huh? Please. Are you that blind about the Republicans? I wouldn’t tread in those “accountability” waters just now if I were you.

Be back later —

By RE

August 30, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

there will always be poor people, always have been, always will.

Some use govt. assistance to better themselves and climb the ladder, some are stuck on the bottom and are content to be poor, or have no idea how not to be.

My views have changed since I have recently become a father, but if a single mom needs govt assistance for herself and her kid, I have no problem with my tax money going there. I cannot imagine anyone being against the s-chip programs, the ones to provide healthcare for kids who do not have it.

Most people who complain the most about govt assistance programs do not even notice or think they are milking the government when they partake in the services that the government provides. Roads, traffic lights, cops, firemen, the FBI, CIA, US military forces, the FDA and USDA. These are but a fraction of the government services all americans enjoy. Your mortgage is probably insured by Fannie Mae or Freddie mac, which also happens to be the only stable place to get a mortgage today.

Quit complaining. Show a little charity for people who need a hand. No doubt there will be dishonest people who will milk the system, it happens in any government contract.

By N-GA

August 30, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Throwing blame back and forth like a tennis ball (ping-pong ball? ; hot potato?…pick one) is just plain stupid.

The screw-ups began before the hurricane at the Federal level with levees that were not capable of handling the disaster.

They continued during the evacuation when local authorities failed to get thousands of people (including people in hospitals) out of harms way.

Then local and Federal agencies failed to prevent the catastrophe that occured when thousands were housed in the Superdome without adequate food, medical help, sanitation, police, etc.

Then FEMA wasted untold sums on emergency trailers, clean-up, etc.

And many (not all) of the NOLA residents have since refused to help themselves.

Enough to go around? Keep trying to point fingers if it makes you feel better. But you’ed be better off b*** somewhere else. Somewhere that people will take your stupid accusations seriously.

By Gonna Love 08

August 30, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

@@ your comment:

“When have you ever seen the Republican Party stand on a platform that divides America based on income, class or race?”

How about Dubya cowing down to the Religious right? And you see how well payed back they were.

Or how about Dubyas campaign smearing John McCain by sayin he had a illegitimate black baby. Yep the Gay Old Party does disriminate.

And here is one question all you NOLA bashers need to ask yourself. Why in 2004 when 2 hurricanes hit Florida was Dubya on the ground both time within 24 hours passing out water and ice and he couldnt make it to NOLA for 6 days? Easy answer no election……

By Greedy B. Astard

August 30, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Here’s a Brilliant idea!

Let’s make camps for the poor. Take away the homes of the 46% own. They are poor they don’t need a house! Tents would be fine.

At make sure they sweat. Yes, indeed. Enough nights sleeping in a tent on a cot in weather like we’ve had and they’ll get their lasy a*******es up and become CEO’s.

If they slept in tents we would not have to worry about those slackers having extra space. Kitchens? No damn way. Bathrooms? Use the drainage ditch at the back of the camp. Parlors? Living Rooms? They shouldn’t be sittin down that long anyway! Dining rooms? Hell no, they can eat MRE’s (purchased at the camp store) standing up!

After were down cleaning up the poor people here, we’ll move on to Europe. Make them live in even smaller tents than poor Americans. Pinko Europeans don’t deserve squat.

Cars! Take them away! Don’t want them wasting all our fossil fuel. They just drive to their lowly dead end jobs. Couldn’t they just stay in camp and make brooms or licsence plates?

We must prevent them from having outside communication with the rest of the country. No television! We don’t want them to get the idea that they should live like the rest of the country. They are too ignorant to watch news. They should still be working anyway. And take they DVD VCR and cable away. Simple, there’s no electricity in a tent camp anyway!!

Don’t need any microwaves to eat MRE’s.

Yes sir poverty is a mindset.

And there are a number of people on this blog today whose minds are POOR.

I don’t worry about getting my camel through the eye of the needle.

I’ll pay a poor person (less than minimum wage OF COURSE) to do it for me.

Greedy B.Astards unite!

Bring back indentured servitude!

I got mine. You got yours.

Whos gives a fat rat’s @ss about the poor.

By Gonna Love 08

August 30, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Mr. Headcase,

You have forgotten how Daddy Bush’s response to Hurrican Andrew was far from stellar. Fortunetaly the voters didnt forget and voted him out of office, whats the old saying “Like father like son”

And the difference between NOLA and Mississippi is that in Mississippi there were no major cities hit like NOLA, in Mississippi the farmers cleaned up the place themselves because they dont like government intervention.

By RE

August 30, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

Andy,

Intereseting post you put up there on climate change. Let me take a guess here and assume you have never had a hard sciences background or read a research paper.

Contrary to the headline and interesting wording, it comes out that only 6% reject the idea that man has contributed to global climate change. Most papers are neutral.

No kidding, research papers are written very narrowly and rarely will deviate from a small set of facts. For example, if a paper is written covering the rise in global ocean temps, there will be no overarching theory as to why, only a set of data showing a pattern. Same with the retreat of global glaciers, etc.

Beware the multiple choice denial, it is a sure sign that someone is defending a false assertion. It works like this;

the world isn’t getting warmer, even if it is it is not caused by increased CO2 gas, or if it is caused by CO2 gas, it is not a significant contribution, or if it is a significant contribution, it isn’t caused by burning fossil fuels.

It is funny to hear, sounds a little like the OJ defense, pick a doubt and try to make it stick

Planet Earth: Love it or leave it.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

{{{{By N-GA August 30, 2007 1:22 PM The screw-ups began before the hurricane at the Federal level with levees that were not capable of handling the disaster.}}}}

Yawn:

{{{{The unveiling of the Mardi Gras Fountain was celebrated this year in typical New Orleans style. The cost of $2.4 million was paid by the Orleans Levee Board, the state agency whose main job is to protect the levees surrounding New Orleans — the same levees that failed after Katrina hit. “They misspent the money,” says Billy Nungesser, a former top official who was briefly president of the Levee Board. “Any dollar they wasted was a dollar that could have went in the levees.”}}}}

New Orleans braced for a catastrophic blow from Hurricane Katrina overnight, as forecasters predicted the Category 5 storm could drive a wall of water over the city’s levees…..President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida. The declaration for Miami-Dade and Broward counties in Florida will allow residents there to apply for federal disaster aid. The president urged anyone in the storm’s path “to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground.”

Koward.

By Martial Law Anyone??

August 30, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Seeing as how we can’t trust the Bushies…What the hell is this really about?

Local Troops Deploy to the US Capital

Do you think W is afraid we’ll be in the streets if he attacks Iran?

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

{{{{By RE August 30, 2007 1:41 PM Contrary to the headline and interesting wording, it comes out that only 6% reject the idea that man has contributed to global climate change. Most papers are neutral.}}}}

Some “consensus,” huh?

Perfect opportunity for you toadies to “declare the debate closed.”

And start blowing the tax dollars.

Duh.

By mm

August 30, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Global warming increasing rains in tropics

Duh, I didn’t see Al Gore’s name in this article. Do you think he bribed NASA to write this?

By RE

August 30, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

let me explain, You see if 6% reject the idea, then 94% do not reject the idea or are neutral.

That is math.

By N-GA

August 30, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Imagine that! Andy, the Bedwetter calling me a “Koward”. One can only imagine what he meant by that when responding to my post. Even Andy doesn’t know.

Then again if you parse Andy’s (the Bedwetter’s) post, you could conclude that he was calling President Bush (the individual doing all the talking in the previous paragraph in the post) a “Koward”. But that would be “truthiness”, something with which Andy is unfamiliar.

Then everyone who has posted on this blog knows who the real “Koward is…

LMAO at Andy, the Constant Bedwetter.

By Hey Mr Duh

August 30, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Mr Bush call his small margin of victory in 2004 a mandate?

Was it 51%?

So 94% would be nearly a double mandate.

You sure do sound STOOOOOPID!

By IN THE NEWS

August 30, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Maliki says US troop escalation has not reduced violence in Iraq}

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 30, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

{{{{By RE August 30, 2007 2:02 PM let me explain, You see if 6% reject the idea, then 94% do not reject the idea or are neutral. That is math.}}}}

Alright, RE, let’s take this from the top, if you insist.

Correct me if I’m wrong, for the last year you toady liberals have been bleating about a “majority” of “scientists” believe that global warming, or whatever you call it now, was the “fault” of man.

Turns out, that was just another load of liberal democrat BS, 76% of scientists aren’t sure what’s causing it.

Seems like there is still a lot of “debating” left to do, don’t it?

And you libs just hate that.

By RE

August 30, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Wingnut Madlibs!!

(wingnut news source) has recently found out that (liberal orginization) which is secretly funded by (liberal boogyman) has been working to (disasterous outcome)

Wingnut news sources: Fox news, shawn hannity, Rush Limbough, Bill Orielly, newsmax, national review, weekly standard

Liberal orginizations: moveon.org, ACLU, DNC, any union, any scientific body, any university, the UN

Liberal Boogymen: Hillary Clinton, Bill CLinton, George Soros, Al Gore, George Cloony, “the hollywood elite”

Disaterous outcome: demorilize the troops, support al queda, make the US a socialist country, outlaw christmas, raise your taxes, make your children gay.

By mm

August 30, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Duh,

76% of scientists aren’t sure what’s causing it. But they know it is occurring.

Duh.

By The Really New Math

August 30, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

100% minus 6% = 76%

By The Watcher

August 30, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Duh says

Correct me if I’m wrong, for the last year you toady liberals have been bleating about a “majority” of “scientists” believe that global warming, or whatever you call it now, was the “fault” of man.

Glad too. You are wrong.

By RE

August 30, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

I am sure you have never read a research paper, much less written one. a majority of research papers written focus on a very small set of data, as I explained before. the entire paper will be confined to that set of data, and will very rarely attribute a cause, only describe a trend.

By rushncap

August 30, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Ummmm, guys, are you debating math and research with li’l andy? Now I understand the desire to waste some time now and then, but honestly… I’d rather do something less hopeless, like teaching a poodle to tune pianos, than explaining arithmetic to andykins.

By luckovichisaheadcase

August 30, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Bosch - and you are full of what we used to call ‘bosch’ - Clinton vetoed welfare reform twice and then promised his toadies in the party that he would repeal it when the Republicans were defeated for control of congress, which did not happen for another 10 years and he was out of office. The fact is that he only signed a bill he had no part in authoring and which he had indeed vetoed twice because he wanted to get reelected and welfare reform was a pivotal issue. Please get your facts right!!!!

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Headcase, Whatever. Your wrong.

By The warning of Doom

August 30, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

All this global warming crap is designed to scare us into accepting some new fangled means of control coming in the near future.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Head Case, Is that why you can find articles like these 10 years later?

[Bill Clinton Was Right

By Robert Rector (of the Heritage Foundation)](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/22/AR2006082200741.html)

By mm

August 30, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

Clinton and welfare reform

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Headcase, Let’s hear from Bill himself

By Hey Mr Headpurse

August 30, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Speaking of who authors legislation

Who wrote the Bankruptcy Bill?

Who wrote the Prescription Drug Bill?

Who wrote our energy policy?

This is a test.

Look it up.

By IN THE NEWS

August 30, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

GREAT WORK BOSCH AND MM!!

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Let’s try that again:

Bill Clinton was Right

By Robert Rector, senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation

By Paul

August 30, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

JDE 12:08

[[Dems would allocate more if they would;thankfully the Republicans keep them from picking our pockets clean.]]

Clean? About half of all Americans don’t pay any Fed income tax. Zero, zilch, nada. The top rate is 35%. Doesn’t mean you pay that much - it means after taking all the deductions and exemptions, if you still have $175 grand a year you pay 35% on the amount over that.

[[The best way to help the poor is to give them incentives to get off their rear.]]

Such as?

[[The following are facts about persons defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau]]

Poor for a family of four is just shy of $21,000 a year. That’s ten bucks an hour. Most places in this country require an income of at least 15 bucks an hour to afford an apartment. Care to try to support a spouse and two growing kids on ten bucks an hour?

The problem with most of these “examples” is it begins with an absolute definition – income – then gives asset examples to show “poor really isn’t all that bad.” Bottom line question: anyone here want to try to raise a family of four on $21 grand a year?

[[46 percent of all poor households actually own their own homes.]]

Do 46 percent of your neighbors own their home? Or do they have a mortgage? Having a mortgage does not mean “own.” This is like the person who says they own three cars. They may rent them (lease) or the bank may own them and the person is paying on it. But many, many folks do not “own” their cars. Unless they’re clunkers like many poor families have.

[[The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.]]

It’s the house they inhabit, not “own.” Small by contemporary standards. See new construction sales.

[[80 percent of poor households have air conditioning.]]

So? Try buying or renting a home without air conditioning. It’s not like these people went out and plunked down 8 grand for a new a/c.

con’t…

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

August 30, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

I think its a damn shame that the people in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are taking all of this money that could be used to benefit the Iraqis. When I pay my taxes I want to know that they are going to help people who deserve it. The people in New Orleans are poor criminals and more importantly are predominatly non-caucasian. New Orleans is a hopeless cause and we should be directing our efforts toward people that really matter and where we can make a difference.

I still remember how angry I was at these people with infants and in wheelchairs crying because they didn’t have food or water and watching those people looting. What a bunch of babies and criminals! I even remember a story about a 7 year old boy who stood in line to catch a bus to Houston with his puppy and was forced to leave it behind. He was all like crying about it. Poor baby!!! I say send the money to Iraq where at least they know how to act civilized and they don’t whine so much. Obviously we should take care of real Americans before Iraqis but real Americans have the means to get out of the way of a hurricane. I mean if you can’t take your 86-year old diabetic mother and your wife and 5 kids to a hotel 600 miles away when you’ve just lost your home and your job for a few months why do you deserve to live anyway?

As my wise a right-wing professor said: “There are costs to being poor.”

RWNJIFG

By Paul

August 30, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

JDE 12:08

cont…

[[Only six percent of poor households are overcrowded; two thirds have more than two rooms per person.]]

So it’s good if poor households are crowded? This is more a function of existing structure composition compared to average household size.

[[The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)]]

You forgot to include, oh, Manhattan, USA? Take major European cities where single family detached housing is rare, then act surprised the square footage calculations are smaller? That’s like saying the average American vehicle weighs more or has more cubic feet of space or engine size than the average European vehicle.

[[Nearly three quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.]]

Any 2006 Ford 500s? Any 2007 Volvos? New Dodge Ram? Try maybe a 1992 Taurus?

[[97 percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions]]

And the number of black and white television sets manufactured per year is….? But it’s oooh, aaah, //color// television. And a new one costs how much at WalMart?

[[78 percent have a VCR or DVD player. 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.]]

I rather hope so. It’s cheap entertainment.

[[89 percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.]]

A stereo? What is this – 1970? Stereo?!!? What does that mean, exactly? A microwave is a luxury? Make that 1967… So two-thirds don’t have a dishwasher? How many of them have a 20 year old unit that came with the house? Wait, 46 percent “own” their house, so how many houses “bought” didn’t have a dishwasher? What’s that tell you about the type of housing?

Man oh man, if these families have all this neat stuff, own their own homes, have a few great cars on 21 grand a year, well, if a family makes fifty grand a year, they’re… they’re…. RICH!!!

Especially compared to someone in Sudan.

RE 1:22

I once presented a paper wherein I loosely defined “welfare” as government assistance. Period. (this was well before the idea of “corporate welfare” cau

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Thank you Paul for making those points.

RWNJIFG You are so bad. Puppies? Why remind us of that?

By Paul

August 30, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

RE 1:22

I once presented a paper wherein I loosely defined “welfare” as government assistance. Period. (this was well before the idea of “corporate welfare” caught on). I then proceeded to give examples of government assistance - utilized by the middle-class to upper-class audience. Lotsa sputtering in the audience. I had a ball.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Corporate welfare - Awwwww, yes, Paul, you are doing well. The wingnuts like to scream about the “poor” getting their government checks, but conveniently forget about the corporate welfare - or the million bajillions wasted in military contractors.

Did you read what I wrote about the people I know that have gone bankrupt four times? They know how to work the system better than any of the DFACS clients the other Bosch worked with.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I read it. And the Congress session before this rewrote the bankruptcy laws - largely, I think to pay back the political contributions from the banks and credit card companies.

By RE

August 30, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

I think the breakdown for most people goes like this, “any Govt program that I benefit from is good, and any program I do not benefit from is wasteful”

Public schools and universities anyone? Cops on the street. $0.41 to send a letter anywhere in the US. Try that with fedex.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

A cop pulled me over for driving with saggy pants. The irony was that I was driving with a suspendered license.

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

August 30, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

I remind you about the puppy thing because in the upcoming election there are going to be liberals trying to say how the government can solve the problems of the average American. This is of course not true. We can solve the problems of the Iraqis but not our own.

As Reagan said, “Government is not the solution it is the problem.” We on the right have said for years that Government doesn’t work. If we’ve accomplished anything over the last 6.5 years its proving our point.

RWNJIFG

By Midori

August 30, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Paul,

I, too, would like to thank you for your lucid and common sense responses to JDE.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

RE

Bingo!

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Paul, Aaaawwwww…good point.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Let me clarify - Paul, Good point about the new bankruptcy laws.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

I got pulled over by a cop for driving with saggy pants. I was praying he wouldn’t notice that my driver’s license had been suspendered……I do apologize and repent, having found Jeansus…..refit and rehem is my next move.

Score

By @@

August 30, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Dang Paul, my husband and I were poor. 1,500 sq ft home without air conditioning (window unit only), old clunkers (still drive ‘em), no dishwasher, no cable, no DVD player, no CD player, one child, two full-time incomes with a supplemental income from his part-time landscaping business.

We sacrificed the luxuries and now own everything, including the old clunkers free and clear still paying our 15% because 25% pre-tax goes into a 401K. My husband took an option to work 32 hours a week to avoid the higher tax bracket.

Shame on him. He could be doing so much more.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

A cop pulled me over for driving with saggy pants….then he noticed my license was suspendered, so I told him that I had a couple of belts earlier, so he gave me a DUI…..tuff day, folks.

‘muff said.

By RE

August 30, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Prediction:

Bankruptcy laws will be rewritten sometime in the next 12 months. Just wait until all those foreclosures start showing up with the banks placing judgements on the foreclosed people. Imagine getting foreclosed on and THEN having countrywide sue you for a 50k loss they took on the property.

Lots of BK filings coming up.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Midori

You’re welcome. I’m just naturally suspicious of articles that begin along the lines of “being poor in America is really pretty good!”

@@

You must be a fan of the Dave Ramsey radio show. I believe he broadcasts over Internet but many,many radio stations carry it.

It’s a rare person who doesn’t give a flip what others think about their possessions. Live beneath your means - that’s the key.

Now if I could only follow my own advice…..

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 30, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

{{{{By rushncap August 30, 2007 2:32 PM Ummmm, guys, are you debating math and research with li’l andy? Now I understand the desire to waste some time now and then, but honestly… I’d rather do something less hopeless, like teaching a poodle to tune pianos, than explaining arithmetic to andykins.}}}}

Yes, rushncrap, the college “professor” that can’t convince a living breathing woman to get in bed with him, is going to “school” us all with his vast expertise.

{{{{con•sen•sus- n.- An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.}}}}

{{{{Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers “implicit” endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%.}}}}

{{{{According to an MIT Professor of Atmospheric Science, Gore is wrong when he claims there is scientific consensus on global warming and ignores key facts like the Arctic being as warm or warmer in the 1940s as today, that the Greenland ice sheet is growing, and that climate in general is highly dynamic, always changing, and nothing to fear.}}}}

MIT?

Who are they?

Oh yeah, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, I forgot.

So their Professor of Atmospheric Science and a study of 528 papers on climate change agree with me, but a slew of hysterical pinkos doesn’t.

Hmmmmmm.

Could I, I mean it’s never happened before but do you think, just this one time, maybe, I could be wrong??????

Puh-leeze.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Hitler was arrested in the Munich Putz of 1932 during Octoberfest for saggy leiderhosen, which led to his writing his manifesto, Mein Khaki.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

@@, You and I have something in common, I too, drive old clunkers and love it! No car payment - I just can’t force myself to buy a new car.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Watch this Texas oil tycoon story take over the news. The McRoves and Oscar Wyatt tipped off Saddam Hussein about the impending 2003 invasion of IRaq, and were entrenched in the oil for food scandal.

Who doesn’t know in their heart that this goes to the oval office?

I demand the resignation of Bush and Cheney, effective noon tomorrow. Let pelosi run things till hillary takes over.

‘muff said.,

By AmVet

August 30, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

Does anyone here besides me find it EXTREMELY interesting that someone can champion a result that says that only 6% of the scientific papers submitted support his case!!

SIX PERCENT!!!

If this were Sesame Street, today’s number would be six.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Duh, You really do not understand how scientific research is conducted do you? Several people here today have tried to explain how it works and you won’t listen.

Like I said earlier today, you believe your fairytales, leave the real work to the experts.

By RE

August 30, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Hmmm, a professor at MIT?

Would that be richard lindzen?

The only guy with any type of credibility who does not think global warming is occuring. Same guy, all the time, any tme you see an op-ed or article referencing a lack of concensus, he is the one guy who is quoted.

Got anyone else aside from this guy, and oh yeah, just a coincidence, he has worked as a paid consultant to OPEC, western fuels, and exxon mobil.

By @@

August 30, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

I was poor in spirit too Paul when 20 hours a month were donated to the school where I work. Not just me, all the teachers voluntarily donated their time to a worthy cause, fundraising for a private school dedicated to special needs kids.

We don’t have to do that anymore. We hired a fundraiser who works for peanuts, but gets large…very large corporations to fund our little non-profit venture.

Why would she work for peanuts? Well her family isn’t hurting for money that’s for sure. She can afford to, but she’s not too good to get down in the trenches with us poor folks to do right by those families who are struggling with disabled children. Her heart is as big as her wallet.

Dave Ramsey? Never heard of him.

A rare person who doesn’t give a flip?

Maybe, but it was more a case of not being able to afford those luxuries and reach our destination of financial independence at the same time.

It was a tough journey, but the destination has been rewarding. Here’s the thing…our spending habits haven’t changed. We’re very frugal out of habit, not out of necessity.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

Saggy Leiderhosen. Hitler Youth gone wild.

Thank God they lost the war. or did they……Bush’s grandfather financed the Nazi War machine and made billions, and that money was used to advance Nazi interests after the war……

Be Afwaid. Be Berry Afwaid.

‘muff said.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Bosch et al

Another thought on this hurricane rebuilding thing.

There’s a nice city on the west coast of Florida called Sarasota. Population about doubles in the winter. Just off the coast are two “Keys” - Floridaspeak for narrow spits of land, long and narrow. The two just off Sarasota are Siesta Key and Longboat Key. To say the real estate prices (even before the huge runup of the last few years) are “up there” is putting it mildly.

Anyhow, right after Pres Bush was elected (first time) one of his new officials - a FEMA-type - swung by on a meet the supporters/community/donators kind of tour. He said, very emphatically, that many people who owned expensive homes on the Keys and coast had used low-cost Federally subsidized insurance (he didn’t say ‘welfare’, dang it) had rebuilt their homes three or four times at taxpayer expense. He said it was ridiculous, went counter to Republican principles as they were all quite wealthy, and this administration would stop the practice. Rebuild once. Maybe twice. Then if you want to stay there it was up to you to foot the costs. Very blunt, very clear.

He returned to Washington. The irate phone calls preceeded him. The word came back it was all a misunderstanding. The program would continue, unchanged.

There ya’ have it -

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 30, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

{{{{By AmVet August 30, 2007 4:31 PM Does anyone here besides me find it EXTREMELY interesting that someone can champion a result that says that only 6% of the scientific papers submitted support his case!!}}}}

Maybe if you paid attention to what’s being said, instead of listening to the fascinating sound of your own voice, you would be able to fathom that I am simply disputing al-Gore’s “consensus” blather, nothing more.

And I slammed it, just like always.

~~~~~

{{{{By RE August 30, 2007 4:32 PM The only guy with any type of credibility who does not think global warming is occuring. Same guy, all the time,}}}}

Run, RE, run! Big oil is everywhere!

{{{{Scientists sceptical about the nature or pace of global warming challenged the “consensus” being presented on the issue on Monday by researchers working for the United Nations. However, the prominent global warming sceptic Professor Philip Stott, from the University of London, was quick to disagree. He said recent research had damaged the credibility of the IPCC and its climate predictions.}}}}

{{{{The review, by a Harvard University team, examined the findings of studies of temperature proxies such as tree rings, ice cores and historical accounts that allowed scientists to estimate temperatures. According to the researchers, the evidence confirms suspicions that today’s “unprecedented” temperatures are simply the result of examining temperature change over too short a period.}}}}

{{{{Russian Astronomer Cites Global Warming On Mars, Doubts Man-Made Climate Change on Earth}}}}

Yeah, big oil.

By RE

August 30, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

Repeating the same joke over and over does not make it funnier.

Just kinda annoying.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

When a Christian observes a Muslim, he is looking in a mirror, and the reflection is his own. No diff.

The grande illusion: that we are unique.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

@@, “We’re very frugal out of habit, not out of necessity.”

Again, something today I can agree with you on. I’m very frugal, it used to be out of complete necessity, but now I realize that there are lots of things in this world that I just don’t need. I used to get tickled at people when those electronic organizer things, oh hell, I can’t remember what they are called (palm pilots or something like that), but I remember thinking to myself, “It takes more time to program something into that damn thing than it does to write it down on a calendar.” Alot cheaper too!

My sister spends a fortune on “cleaning” contraptions and cleaning products and has the nastiest house I’ve ever seen. We have a mop and broom, and a few rags we use (sometimes I get a little wacky and buy sponges).

By Gonna Love 08

August 30, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

I is for Idiot,

It is amazing that you cannot at least think that maybe there is a thing called global warming especially since we have had weird weather all year. To think that emitting carbon and other harmful substances into our atmosphere has no effect on the planet is just reckless. You can bash Gore all you want but the massive melting of polar ice should be one hint that things arent kosher. But wait im sure the Gay old party will somehow blame Bill Clinton. Your posts show that you lack formal education, i only hope you havent procreated and this world will have to put up with more of your ilk and their kind….

By Paul

August 30, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

Bosch @@

My niece stopped by Starbucks a lot. My brother said “so, how do you like spending 700 dollars a year on coffee?” She said “What!!!!” He said, “you go there this many times a week, spend this much each time, so it’s that times 52 is 700 bucks a year.” She said “Well, you go to Starbucks.” He said, “yes, but I know what it’s costing me.”

Annualize everything.

By @@

August 30, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

Here’s a tip for you Bosch. You’re the one who pays $5.00 for a gallon of milk? I don’t know where you live, but here in Georgia we have BJs, a membership store like Sams Club or Costco. Milk is still under $4.00 a gallon. It may have gone up with the demand for corn (ethanol). Gotta feed the cows that give the milk.

Buy it up, drink one glass. Put the lid back on and freeze it. If you can buy it on sale at your neighborhood store, same thing…drink a glass and freeze it.

Advice is free of charge.

By RE

August 30, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

“And I slammed it, just like always.”

I hate that I find this funny, but now every time I here a GOP guy make a statement, I automatically think of the double entendre.

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Hard to get happy after THAT one.

By AmVet

August 30, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

{Reasonable heads are prevailing on the Iraq issue. There will be a drawdown but not a withdrawal.}

The NEW neo-con soundbite - DRAWDOWN!!!

Man, that sounds so much better than cut ‘n run!

I wonder if there is a dictionary of Republicanisms yet. There sure should be.

How about some these meaningless phrases?

Moral equivalency, activist judges, compassionate conservatism, big tent, free speech zone, speaking points, the decider, the uniter, no child left behind, catastrophic success, “they stand up, we stand down”, stay the course, surge, “fight them over there”, constitutional literalism, societal decay, expansive destiny, republican sensibilities/vision (???) and duty levels.

Truly the gift of talking a lot, but saying nothing.

Andy, Andy, Andy.

{I am simply disputing al-Gore’s “consensus” blather, nothing more.}

Yeah, riiiiiight, if that makes you feel better keep believing it too.

You are so completely and utterly invested in always disagreeing with the “liberals” (even when they’re not) you hate so much, and being “right” on this issue that you can’t even see how you have blown your own foot off by referencing a link that shows not even one in sixteen scientific papers agrees with you and your, what I consider extremely inane claim, that man is in no way contributing to pollution-induced global warming.

I could probably find six percent of the people who still think that “wide stance” was just being friendly!

Granted it would have to be at some Young Republicans gathering…

By @@

August 30, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

RE:

Kinda like the double standard you enjoy until you and your wife have a daughter?

By Rovespierre

August 30, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

The funniest exchange so far is the carol vs Rch thread. Everytime he blogs, she pounds on him from out of nowhere. Great stuff.

Thanx for the desperately needed laughs from this quarter, my fine friends.

By Robin

August 30, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

RWNJIFG: How dare you attack these brave, patriotic, empathetic, intellectual, family-valued Christian Mercun extreme Repubs here on this blog? You cut-n-run cowards and tree-huggers and N.O. lovers have made this country the downward spiraling stench that it is today. Why, even Paul and Duh and @@ here may be forced to steal a life from somebody. I think maybe, just maybe, this is a job for…”JAWS” Craig and the Red state of IdaHO.

By gtengineer

August 30, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

words don’t describe how badly this administration has handled Katrina. With every action by bush pointing towards a racial bias.

Take any given ghetto. Destroy it. Screw every homeowner that has been paying on these homes for a generation… then seize their property… and when you develop it for your OWN profit, refuse to build anything but million dollar houses in its place. Instruct the minority from that ghetto to move to another city with nothing.

“compassionate conservatism” omfg! lol… hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha… wwhhhhhaaahahahahaha!!!!! roflmao!!!

yes yes thank you… thats the biggest oxymoron ever!

By Paul

August 30, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

AmVet

So the Reps call it a drawdown and the Dems call it a redeployment. Any difference, as in - will the numbers left in Iraq just before the election - be roughly equivalent? And will the Rep drawdown come home? Or be redeployed like the Dems? I don’t recall if the Dem candidates have been specific on saying if any of the redeployed folks would come home or not. Logic says they’d have to - it’s the numbers I’m wondering about.

By RE

August 30, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Two different things, two different standards.

By Paul

August 30, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

gtengineer

[[words don’t describe how badly this administration has handled Katrina.]]

Shouldn’t that be “these administrations?”

Bush

Blanco

Nagin

By @@

August 30, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

RE:

(((Two different things, two different standards.)))

They’re both human beings. One, the girl, is a little more vulnerable. A little more trusting. Under a little more pressure.

In today’s society where so many young girls are growing up without fathers in the home, the phrase “I’ll love you if” carries great weight.

Just something you need to think about.

By @@

August 30, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

Hey, I know RE!!!!

You can call it your contribution to the less fortunate (daughters without loving fathers).

‘Ya see, there’s all sorts of ways you can make a difference.

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 30, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Gonna Love 08 August 30, 2007 5:06 PM I is for Idiot, It is amazing that you cannot at least think that maybe there is a thing called global warming especially since we have had weird weather all year. Blah, blah, blah.}}}}

I don’t know, I type in these comments of mine under the assumption that you hysterics can understand English, guess not, huh?:

{{{{By Duh stands for Democrats August 30, 2007 10:19 AM But seeing how it’s most likely the “fault” of the Sun, after all the climate of Mar’s is warming at the same rate that Earth’s is, I can fully understand why most scientists don’t know “how to fix it.”}}}}

~~~~~

{{{{By AmVet August 30, 2007 5:24 PM {I am simply disputing al-Gore’s “consensus” blather, nothing more.}Yeah, riiiiiight, if that makes you feel better keep believing it too.}}}}

Again, before you get carried away in your own splendorous manifestos and grandee pronouncements, maybe you should at least try to comprehend what you are babbling about:

{{{{By Duh stands for Democrats August 30, 2007 9:43 AM There is no consensus.}}}}

The very last line of my first post, gee, I wonder what that means, “there is no consensus,” gosh, now why did I put that there?

Duh.

By RW-(the original)

August 30, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

RE,

I posted this response to your boy/girl double standard yesterday. You never responded so I don’t know if you saw it, but it bears repeating anyway.

RE,

Maybe if parents would try to instill a sense of decency and morality in their sons, rather than hand them a condom and tell them to get some, we wouldn’t feel as much need to try to lock daughters up until they’re 23.

Just remember that the little girl’s pants you’re encouraging your son to get into belong to somebody’s precious daughter that hoped your son had some morals.

By @@

August 30, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

RE:

Maybe looking out for the best interest of someone’s daughter can make you feel all warm and cozy.

We already know that global warming makes you feel that way.

Expand on your compassion.

By Gonna Love 08

August 30, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this

I is for Idiot, Oh i can understand english, the problem with your ilk is if it supports your cause your all over it, if not then you claim it is false. Kinda like the GOP saying they are for family values when they have a pedophile, a man cruising for gay sex in a public restroom and a preacher who they lovingly allowed in the White House who love meth and gay sex…..

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

@@, I certainly didn’t know you could freeze milk. That’s news to me. I live in GA, just not in ATL, but I bought a gallon of Mayfield milk for my mom the other day for $5.00 when I went to the store for her. She’ll only drink Mayfield milk. I’ll drink generic. I can’t tell the difference. I think you are right about the corn/ethanol thing. Another topic, another day.

Paul, When I go to Starbucks, which is usually a weekend treat for me, I order plain, black coffee and they usually look at me like I have horns growing out of my head. Once, one of the little girls behind the counter had to ask if they served it that way. Needless to say, I had to smirk a bit.

RE, Don’t feel too bad about the son/daughter thing. I have two teenage sons and one almost teenage daughter. There is just something about those daughters that makes you put that extra guard up. I realize it is a double standard and I certainly raise my boys to be responsible and my daughter as equal to my sons, it’s just one of those unexplainable weird parent things.

By RW-(the original)

August 30, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

I’m sure most everybody has heard Miss Teen South Carolina’s answer to the question of why so many people in the US can’t find the US on a map.

Somebody has been kind enough to chart out the answer for us.

By Bosch

August 30, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

@@, I meant to tell you thanks at the beginning of my post, I’m sorry I didn’t, where are my manners?

But, thanks!

By AmVet

August 30, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

For what its worth, I too think the former VP exaggerated when he said there is no debate.

But as to his general point vs. yours, Andy, I also think if Gore were shooting at a target, he missed the bullseye by a small margin but still had a kill shot. (That also goes for the nine to one ratio of scientists who don’t believe your “sides” argument.)

Your shot, on the other hand, hit the target of the shooter four people to the right of you!

But when you live in such an absolutist world, what difference are degrees of error?

By Right-wing nut job in full glory

August 30, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

Robin,

I like the way you think.

I was wondering what you thought about having the Village People’s “Macho Man” as the Republican theme song. You could have a stage show where you dress up Craig as the cop, Foley could be the Indian, and Ken Mehlman could the construction worker.

I think it would go great with race on our side which is to decide who is the most macho candidate. If we are going to survive in the post-9/11 world we need tough, strong, strapping, men who strut when they walk. You know like Bush. Well the one in the cowboy boots not the Yale cheerleader outfit. I didn’t find that cheering thing very gay… I mean, very manly, at all.

What do you think?

RWNJIFG

By Paul

August 30, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Bosch

I like good coffee. Order the daily drink from caribou coffee (cariboucoffee.com). When I travel I often stop in at McDonalds. Consumer Reports tested - said they’d redone their coffee and it was preferred by most of their testers.

But that only matters if… I asked that same brother about those Wine Spectator ratings. He said “only matters if you have the same tastes the rater does.” That says it all. But I find their coffee pretty decent for a buck a cup.

RW-(the original)

I wonder how many people heard her answer and thought “yeah, right, good answer!”

Not much different than some of the answers we hear in the Presidential candidate debates!

By @@

August 30, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Member of the conservative ilk here.

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t all the conservative posters agreed that the globe is warming, but simply question what causes it and to what degree we should be concerned, and what actions should be taken.

The impact to impoverished populations in third world countries has always concerned me.

Heck, any measures we might take would be counteracted by the fact that China’s pollution is showing up within the ice on our polar caps.

Until we can figure it out, I’m conserving.

Bosch:

You’re welcome. Just be sure to thaw it out. Otherwise you’ll be enjoying a milk popsicle.

By Wartstal

August 30, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

I’ve opened a small business that specializes in discreet removal of those “W” 04 stickers from cars. I started out with one employee, I’ve had to hire three more, American citizens of course. I bring this up because at least for me, this administration has been a boon.

By RW-(the original)

August 30, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Paul,

One of the most hilarious things was she had obviously been coached to try not to say “like” so she substituted “such as” whenever she felt the need. I also loved the only part of the answer that attempted to address the actual question. Who knew most US Americans didn’t have maps? /such as….

By Paul

August 30, 2007 6:36 PM | Link to this

@@

I think you’ve represented it fairly. My take is some question the relative impact each of the cited causes have, the most appropriate action to take, the cost/benefit of the action, and the amount of man-caused vs nature-caused.

I’m out for the evening. G’night, all

By raisedanidiot

August 30, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

damnit I’ve missed another good blog day…and what seems to be a dust ball free day too! Bonus!

I kind of get the impression that JDE and ilk are a little jealous of “the poor”…from his tax bracket statement, I’d say JDE is p** that there are Americans out there living with less debt than he…AND recieving government asst.! What unmidigated gaul! Live within your means dim wit…and help your fcking fellow man! You might see some changes in your life for the better and you won’t have to sit around btching on your keyboard.

Bosch, as always you made a lot of sense today…and our boy Paul was all over it, wasn’t he? Good show…both of you!

I too have dreams of living off the grid…debt free…simply and free…seems like an unreachable dream…hmmmm. I think I have mentioned before that I live in a little fishing cabin…one box air-conditioner, no tv, no cable, no land phone line…we CAN get by without so many things that we think we need. I probably spend more on my two cats than I do on entertainment or plush coffees and such. I remember when I was little we didn’t have half of what “the poor” have today…we were happy. We played chalk games on the driveway…ran through sprinklers…had a wonderful life! Everyone in our country is entitled to pursue their own happiness…if we all could realize how much we really do depend on each other…Sigh…well, another day…smoke em high…smoke em low…til tomorrow

By RW-(the original)

August 30, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

Also make sure you heed @@’s advice to take a glass out of the container before you freeze it. Milk expands quite a bit when it freezes.

By The GOP is Broke.

August 30, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

As in Brokeback. As in Brokeback Mountain.

Andi/e-duh wishes s/he could quit you!

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 30, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

{{{{By AmVet August 30, 2007 6:20 PM For what its worth, I too think the former VP exaggerated when he said there is no debate. But as to his general point vs. yours, Andy, I also think if Gore were shooting at a target, he missed the bullseye by a small margin but still had a kill shot. (That also goes for the nine to one ratio of scientists who don’t believe your “sides” argument.) But when you live in such an absolutist world, what difference are degrees of error?}}}}

So let me get this straight, if a scientist writes a paper concerning global warming but doesn’t make any mention of what he believes is causing it, then we must assume that he thinks it is man’s fault?

Oh, O.K.

Now I know how you libs arrived at your “consensus.”

See, any way you try to blather your way out of it, I still come out right.

It’s just how things are, why fight it?

By AmVet

August 30, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

{So let me get this straight, if a scientist writes a paper concerning global warming but doesn’t make any mention of what he believes is causing it, then we must assume that he thinks it is man’s fault?}

I really do believe you act so intentionally idiotic you couldn’t ever get anything straight, Andy!

SIX PERCENT.

Just focus your limited powers on that number for awhile. Perhaps you will eventually talk yourself into understanding that number.

A paltry SIX PERCENT think man has no involvement in global warming.

A minuscule SIX PERCENT think man has no involvement in global warming.

A wee SIX PERCENT think man has no involvement in global warming.

Only SIX PERCENT agree with your ridiculous claim that man has no involvement in global warming.

Are you starting to understand your pollution-loving “side” is dwarfed by others who think you are daft and your motives immoral about this matter? And the numbers for “your” side keep steadily dwindling.

But good luck in trying to convince yourself (as thankfully you aren’t convincing one other soul on the planet).

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 30, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

{{{{By AmVet August 30, 2007 7:12 PM SIX PERCENT. Blah, blah, blah.}}}}

Alright, let’s try it using your language:

{{{{Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus.}}}}

Just focus your limited powers on that number for awhile. Perhaps you will eventually talk yourself into understanding that number.

A paltry SEVEN PERCENT think man has involvement in global warming.

A minuscule SEVEN PERCENT think man has involvement in global warming.

A wee SEVEN PERCENT think man has involvement in global warming.

Only SEVEB PERCENT agree with your ridiculous claim that man has involvement in global warming.

Duh.

By Phil

September 3, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

Maybe if they would help themselves instead of looking for freebies from the U.S. Government. No they reelect the likes of Mayor Nagin and U.S. Rep Jefferson.

By Sara

September 3, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

The “Katrina victims” have now become the American public who continue to send tens of millions of tax dollars to the New Orleans whiners who just can’t get enough. They elected Blanco, they elected Nagin, they elected Jefferson and they chose to live on the Gulf Coast, part of which is below sea level. I’m tired of all the complaining, aided and abetted by the press. For heaven’s sake, get a job and move on.

By getalife

September 3, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

We get it wingnuts, you blame the victims and the Dems.

Your part of the me generation and have chosen the wrong path.

If you want to talk about waste, look no further than the Iraq occupation and the gop pork.

There is red tape involved, google it losers.

Geez.