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Home > Opinion > Mike Luckovich > Archives > 2007 > August > 22 > Entry

The lesson

By Mike Luckovich | Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 09:22 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

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Permalink | Comments (242) | Post your comment | Categories: Editorial Cartoon

Comments

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

I got a better ending than that^^:

…..in to Vietnam BUT if you have a democrat president that escalates hostilities from advisor mission to a full blown war, don’t waste 60,000 American soldiers and then have your democrat Congress run screaming from the battlefield in defeat after you’ve won.

Duh.

~~~~~

Yeah, this sounds like a war we are “losing:”

{{{{A large western oil company has offered $700m for oil assets in Iraqi Kurdistan owned by DNO, the small Norwegian oil company. The offer signals that international oil companies are willing to put significant amounts of money into Iraq in spite of the security problems and lack of a legal framework. DNO refused to name the company, but industry executives speculated that Royal Dutch Shell was a possible bidder.}}}}

Deal.

~~~~~~

It used to be that our elderly were role models for the younger generation, graceful, modest and wise, but now they are self absorbed morons no better than most teenagers:

{{{{You’re never too old for intimacy, sex survey finds-Urinal}}}}

Who cares?

What are you gonna do, show us?

Geez.

Whatever happened to acting your age?

Why do you libs worry about the government spying on you when you tell us every freaking detail of your lives, without us even asking?

~~~~~~

{{{{Atlanta bill would outlaw public show of underwear Thongs, boxers and bras, oh my! Saggy pants raise alarm, but critics say indecency plan is biased.}}}}

Biased?

Showing the world the crack of your as-s is a constitutionally protected right?

~~~~~~

Oh Gawd, here we go with ogling dictators again:

{{{{Say cheese, Putin: Russian president bares chest on vacation; admirers, media debate possible meanings behind photographs.}}}}

Possible meaning? The guy was fishing and it was hot, geez.

Check it out, when Putin was seen as cooperating with the west, wasn’t he considered kind of creepy?

Now that he’s making anti American noises, all the toady liberals are gaping in awe at him with mindless wonder.

They don’t think we notice these things?

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

The New England Journal of Medicine does a study that should make us all smile.

Duh calls them liberals, like it’s a dirty word, and adds “Whatever happened to acting your age?”.

Tad uptight?

What a shame.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Is it PMS?

{{{{Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton — who told the VFW conference on Monday that the surge is clearly “working” — said yesterday that it has failed. “It is abundantly clear that there is no military solution to the sectarian fighting in Iraq,” the New York Democrat said. “We need to stop refereeing the war, and start getting out now.”}}}}

One day it works, the next day it fails.

I guess it all depends on who “she” is pandering, er, talking to that day.

~~~~~

The liberals make all kinds of corruption accusations against Dick Cheney with no proof, but the totally ignore the proof against Jack Murtha and Diane Feinstein:

{{{{Just as in years past, the appropriators’ ideas for how to spend taxpayer cash were anything but appropriate. Among the proposed projects was Rep. John Murtha’s bid for $1 million designated for the Center for Instrumented Critical Infrastructure. Too bad Mr. Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat, when challenged, couldn’t even show that the center exists. First we had the Bridge to Nowhere; now we’ve got the Imaginary Center.}}}}

~~~~~~

{{{{ The top-tier male Democratic presidential candidates are seen to be using their wives as pawns in a risky game of political chicken. Rather than relying on their own rhetorical skills, Barack Obama and John Edwards are ducking behind their wives’ skirts, sending them into a dangerous minefield to taunt presumed front-runner Hillary Clinton to come out and fight. The latest volley was from Sen. Obama’s wife, Michelle, who offered this bit of domestic advice to a crowd of Democratic women: “If you can’t run your own house, you can’t run the White House.” Her barely veiled shot at the Clinton household, plagued by Bill’s infidelity, was risky. Hillary Clinton has yet to return fire, perhaps wary of engaging in a cat fight that could get more ugly, upsetting both black and female voters.}}}}

At least Mrs. Obama wasn’t lying.

By luckovichisaheadcase

August 23, 2007 8:25 AM | Link to this

Actually, that is the lesson of Vietnam. We advertised to all the world, friend and foe alike, that we could not be relied upon to keep our word to our allies and that our government would bow to criticism and bug out if the situation proved to be unpopular for the moment. We did eventually prevail in the cold war, but really only because Socialism does not work and it had to eventually collapse under the weight of an economically and morally bankrupt system. We also ended up with a President with a true backbone, not a spineless wonder like Nixon, Ford, Carter or Clinton. People also forget the HELL that Cambodia became and they also forget that the Khmer Rouge were there long before we became involved in Cambodia. These are the facts, however, I know you folks really don’t want to hear them. Nevertheless, that is why we CANNOT leave Iraq now.

By IN THE NEWS

August 23, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Bush and Giuliani United on “Iraq as Vietnam”

By reebok

August 23, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

So let’s see…the Alcoholic-in-Chief has now compared his Big Iraq Adventure to World War II, as if Bin Laden (remember him???) and Saddam Hussein were somehow reincarnations of Hitler and Mussolini…then he compared it to Korea, but then I guess someone reminded him that we’ve still got 50,000 soldiers in Korea 50 years later, so he changed his mind again…now he’s comparing it to Viet Nam, a comparison he explicitly rejected last year. The most amazing thing (IMHO, of course), is that this idiot has driven expectations so low that no one expects him to be competent…or to be rational…or to even express himself comprehensibly. It’s as if people know that he’s delusional and uninformed, and thus simply shrug off his latest idiotic statement.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

The Repugnants were all chanting “we have to fight ‘em over there” back in the 70’s, too. They don’t know any other way to solve foreign policy conflicts.

And what Bush and the Repugs forget to mention in relation to our withdrawal from Viet Nam back in ‘75 is: the Viet Cong did not “follow us home” afterward.

The Repugs all seem to forget about understanding the lessons of history.

By Hey Ms. Goldie

August 23, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

To

America can’t take a chance with any Repug in the White House in ‘09 — they’re all single-minded war-mongers for solving problems.

May I add

Take no chance with ANY republican for ANY office this election cycle. They must learn to listen to the will of the people.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

{{We did eventually prevail in the cold war, but really only because Socialism does not work and it had to eventually collapse under the weight of an economically and morally bankrupt system.}}

Headcase— I think you meant to post that “communism does not work”, but then, you probably don’t even understand the difference between socialism and communism?

The end of the Cold War did not happen at the point of an American gun, and the civil war in Iraq will not end due to the points of our guns facing the Iraqis. The Iraqis need to decide for themselves which way they will go next, whether it be an ongoing civil war for the next decade, or whether they will break apart into multiple tribes once again.

But, it’s too bad that your guy Bush decided to bring this hell upon the Iraqis and forced them to make a decision about who will be their next dictator, huh?

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

{{Her barely veiled shot at the Clinton household, plagued by Bill’s infidelity, was risky.}}

Andy-DUH, you just can’t face the idea that Mrs. Obama was also speaking to Rudy’s family, and McCain’s family, and Freddie’s family… the Repugs running for prez don’t exactly have their family values going in their favor either, hmmmm???

By IN THE NEWS

August 23, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

Olbermann: Bush Compares Iraq To Vietnam

By Analchord

August 23, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

We cant leave Iraq. If we do, millions will be keeled in Syria.

Proof: We left Vietnam, and millions were keeled in Cambodia.

If we leave S. Korea, millions will be keeled in Japan.

I understand oh wise president: Millions of minions will be keeled in some neighboring state if we withdraw any of our forces from anywhere.

Oh wise W! Ever notice how efficient the letter W is in depicting the character of the president? The Z for Zorro was the most efficacious in history, and the OZ for Oz was pretty good too.

But the W for Bush is so spot on. He is W.

We cant leave Iraq, W is correct. Yes, a blood bath could happen, but that’s only one of the fifty reasons we are trapped against our will there, and every reason is W’s fault. It’s his war, his initiative, and his adventure.

The reasons we cant leave existed before we entered Iraq, but those reasons were contained, by a little guy named Saddam.

Whenever Saddam would have left this world, in thirty years or so, those consequences of our deposing him would have surfaced then, and we would be out of position to stop those consequences, which are global in reach and fatal for world peace.

The strategic location of Iraq, exactly where it is, by accident of the cartography of both God and the British, makes it a place from which nothing but war can escape.

The universe came together not by accident but by necessary evolution of exotic particles that have to come together a certain way, no deviation possible. Man is the same way, and war is as inevitable as the stars were. We simply hate the not-us. Not us? Hate it. Kill it. It’s the only way to survive. You’re not me, so you must be keeled. It’s the only way. Our way. Man. Us.

That’s why we can never leave iraq. Man will set fire to himself there and global human warming will occur.

We can never leave Iraq.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

{{We cant leave Iraq, W is correct. Yes, a blood bath could happen, but that’s only one of the fifty reasons we are trapped against our will there, and every reason is W’s fault. It’s his war, his initiative, and his adventure.}}

Anal— and that’s why our occupation of Iraq will end when a Dem is in the White House in ‘09.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

History revision, pinko style:

{{{{By Goldie August 23, 2007 8:34 AM The Repugnants were all chanting “we have to fight ‘em over there” back in the 70’s, too. They don’t know any other way to solve foreign policy conflicts.}}}}

Umm, wrong.

It was the domino effect, that being if we didn’t hold the communists in North Vietnam then they would take the South, Cambodia, Laos and all the other countries in the region and millions would die, which did happen, exactly as we predicted.

Truth hurts, don’t it?

~~~~~

{{{{By Goldie August 23, 2007 8:45 AM Andy-DUH, you just can’t face the idea that Mrs. Obama was also speaking to Rudy’s family, and McCain’s family, and Freddie’s family}}}}

From Mrs. Obama’s speech:

{{{{Well, she said she and Barack were modeling “what it means to have family values in this country and we haven’t seen that for a long time” [emphasis added]. What did Michelle mean by “we haven’t seen that [family values] for a long time”? So our view is that if you can’t run your own house, you certainly can’t run the White House.}}}}

Geez, when did Guiliani get into the White House?

Did I oversleep this morning or what?

What year is it?

Truth hurts, don’t it?

By AmVet

August 23, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

From the illustrious leaders of the GOP there is much teeth gnashing about the consequences of getting out of Iraq. But there is little media attention about the consequences of staying.

TV and talk radio is filled with what will happen if we leave - chaos, civil war, massive killing, destruction of infrastructure, terrorists will come over here, terrorists will control the oil, and on and on.

There have been more than 3,700 American lives sacrificed, over 12,000 American soldiers PERMANENTLY disabled and possibly up to 1 million Iraqi lives lost, with an unknown (maybe 2 million) disabled for life.

And what of those trapped Iraqi civilians? Most still in Iraq don’t have the means to leave. Those that did (over 4 million wealthier Iraqis have already left) are the ones that had the most to offer to a very needy Iraqi people, but they’re long gone. Doctors, engineers, teachers, and a multitude of what Iraq really needs now are just about all gone.

The Iraqi war has cost the American people over $1 Trillion dollars already, including accounting for the debt reduction, repair to the military, and the long time medical care that over 200,000 Iraqi War veterans are now receiving for injuries, some until they the day they die. Most estimates now peg that cost at around $2 Trillion (If we leave by years end). And since we are not going to do that, then if we just estimate that only 50% of the current carnage will continue, just think of how many more will die and be permanently damaged and how much more America will go into debt between now and when we do leave.

For every year we linger, add about 600 dead American soldiers, another 3000 permanently injured, another 25,000 who will need medical attention AFTER the war, Another 5000 Iraqi lives and possibly another 10,000 injured for life, then there’s the $72 Billion for that year plus another $250 Billion debt accrued.

And I haven’t said anything about rebuilding Iraq.

They didn’t ask us to invade, they didn’t threaten us, their biggest crime was being ruled by a Dictator - that we backed and helped place in power over the Iraqi people, planning on him being yet another American Toadie in the Middle East.

By Paul Whiteley Sr.

August 23, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

President Bush has no credibility. In college, Bush was a history major. If he had learned the lessons of Vietnam, he would never have gotten America into the quagmire we find ourselves mired in today.

By Batiste

August 23, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

“When it comes to Iraq, it’s time for conservatives to once again be conservative.”

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

{{Geez, when did Guiliani get into the White House?}}

Andy-DUHHHH, Rudy’s NEVER gonna get in the White House… what Mrs. Obama said about true family values will resonate with American voters, and therefore they will not elect a values-deficient candidate such as Rudy, or Freddie, or Newtie… all Repugnants!

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

{{They didn’t ask us to invade, they didn’t threaten us, their biggest crime was being ruled by a Dictator -}}

Thank you, AmVet — so spot on! Bush and his supporters have created a hell-hole that will linger on for decades. It’s time to get Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria et al, to the table and have them work out a political solution for Iraq.

America has done all it can do militarily at this point, and our military is no longer the answer to the problems Bush created for Iraq… it will require the work of those neighbors of Iraq to figure out what’s next.

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

You are right, sometimes the truth hurts.

IS THAT WHY YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF IT?

Liberals, even if hurt by the truth, PREFER IT. In fact, we DEMAND IT.

Only Neo Cons are scared of the pain. It does not hurt Neo Cons to Lie!

What a shame.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Goldielocks,

What a farce that HuffPo piece on Guiliani is. Take this for instance:

Predictably, he is anti-UN — as he was as mayor of NYC. But he goes further and argues that the UN has “proved irrelevant to the resolution of almost every major dispute of the last fifty years.” This is a breathtaking display of incomprehension. Just a reminder: the UN stopped the invasion of South Korea;settled the Suez crisis of 1956; assisted in the ending of the Cuban missile crisis of 1963; ——->ousted Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991.<——ad nauseum

Just to pick one of these claims, the U.N. ousted Saddam Hussein from Kuwait? The American military and G.H.W. Bush had nothing to do with it?

Bwahahahahahahahaha.

That is a “breathtaking display” of revisionist history, and dare I say a “shameless” example of it?

By DirtyDawg

August 23, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

If it weren’t so tragic it would be comical how ‘Conservatives’ posting here - or whatever label you claim for yourself, personally I think it should be racist, selfish, arrogant redneck - throw the ‘L’ word around like it’s a ‘t**d’ or something. So you don’t like Liberals? Just remember, Jesus was a Liberal…the Nation’s founders were Liberals…the Civil Rights movement was led by Liberals (oh, I forgot, that’s one of your points)…the fact is that virtually every significant - and positive - history-changing event was because people that were ‘Liberal’ decided that things could be better and made it happen. What have you got - Hitler? Bush?…and don’t say Reagan - you don’t really want to go there, do you?

By Second Story Man

August 23, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Rudy could easily be elected. You have way too much faith in the American People’s voting skill, Goldie

By Midori

August 23, 2007 9:33 AM | Link to this

Goldie,

bless you.

You have the patience of Job.

I feel your pain.

Trying to drill “facts” and common sense into Andy’s drug and alcohol addled mind is a monumental task.

You’re doing great - altho I’m afraid no good will come of it.

He’s a moron’s moron, and is determined to remain so.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

History revision, pinko style:

{{{{By DirtyDawg August 23, 2007 9:31 AM Just remember, Jesus was a Liberal}}}}

So Jesus was in favor of killing unborn children, teaching innocent pre teen children how to have sex or even “change their gender,” evolution, homosexuality, not protecting innocent people from barbarians, euthanasia and all the other disgusting things that you liberals are?

Yeah, right.

Geez.

By mm

August 23, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

ML, your cartoon speaks volumes about the character of Bush. He really screwed the pooch yesterday with that ridiculous speech in front of veterans. I think 20% is now within reach.

By DirtyDawg

August 23, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot to add…Seems to me that one of the best responses to Bush’s historical recall of the ‘lessons’ of Vietnam should have been - Mr. Bush’s understanding of Vietnam is no better than his commitment (or guts) to serve during that war.

By Second Story Man

August 23, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

CNN ran a look at the peaceful moslems in this country. Guess what? 25% of ‘em think suicide bombing is not always wrong, that there are reasons to support it….

…. these are the peaceful muslims! These are the ones who profess a jihad, a personal struggle of living God’s will vs living as the Barbie Bandit, (if you will).

Apparently, muslims in the USA, are fighting everyday, inside themselves, (like a pious Cybil) to live a peaceful, worshipful, and prayerful life. The alternative, which is so near to them and so accessible that they have to ward off temptation 24/7 365, is to put on a dynamite vest and blow up crowds of people.

There are about 5 million Islamics in this country. that means if the jihad ever hits the fan, we’ll be facing hundreds of thousands of suicide bombers, all home made.

Remember, when the baby boomers were chanting “no rain” at woodstock, the Islamics were chanting, “Death to America” in the middle east, and those people came here, and now consider themselves americans.

But half of them also insist that they are Muslims first, and Americans second. (CNN survey)

By Doom smells a rat

August 23, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

getalife is posing as a conservative. Who can guess which one?

By Can't Resist

August 23, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Maybe I should stop having my pedicures done by Viet Cong.

I hear the “Qaeda” do a hell of a foot massage.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

In Vietnam, they fought for their Independence and won.

In Iraq, they are fighting for their Indpendence from us and will win too.

It is their country and we need to get out.

We have wasted 4000 lives and a trillion dollars for Iraq to be Iran and Syria’s ally.

This is w’s legacy and history.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

DUH,

I wonder if “DirtyDawg“‘s lives at Bad Newz kennels.

At least I hope so. The alternative is scary - that his rambling and ignorant commentary is an example of what UGA is teaching its students.

DirtyDawg,

The founders were liberals in the classic sense, and they were Christians - something modern liberals refuse to acknowledge.

Modern day “liberals” are not interested in free speech, the free interchange of ideas (and freedom of religion which I mention only because you brought it up) and they do everything they can to silence conservative thought, particularly on college campuses.

By Hey Mr Danish

August 23, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

This is a LIE

Modern day “liberals” are not interested in free speech, the free interchange of ideas (and freedom of religion which I mention only because you brought it up) and they do everything they can to silence conservative thought, particularly on college campuses.

And you are a LIAR

By Midori

August 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

BD — have one of these on me.

By Midori

August 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

BD — have one of these on me.

By Midori

August 23, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

oops - the second cup was for Andy.

By luckovichisaheadcase

August 23, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Goldie - it is not my job to educate you, but I will try. Please don’t condescend however. Marx came up with the term ‘communism’ to distinguish his brand of unworkable socialism from the other brands of (always) unworkable socialism. In fact, the name chosen by Lenin was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics!

Marx, ironically was trying a very capitalist trick! He simply relabled a bad product - kind of like calling something new and improved or better yet changing the company name altogether to portray a new ‘image’. This action was simply style over substance - something practiced by people with small minds and few ideas on all ends of the political spectrum - the Clintons are past-masters of this art!

By W on the Vietnam analo

August 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy.

Read Repeat Often

By Second Story Man

August 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Half the Muslims in this country consider themselves Americans second after being Muslims on a personal jihad or struggle of the pious vs the life of a barbie bandit.

25% of Muslims in this country think suicide bombings are justifiable in certain situations like when they think the call has been issued to join the holy war.

We are in a pickle, folks. We may have triggered this call to arms too soon, we should have let more time pass for new muslims in this country to assimilate an allegience to it.

We should never have gone into Iraq. I dont see how we can avoid the war here at home now. It’s a matter of time and whether Al Queda has a McRove.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Buy Danish, Your definition of “modern day liberalism” is completely preposterous and absurd.

Your contempt for higher education is also well documented here. Do you realize that higher education in this country keeps the USA from falling under the category of “developing country?”

By mm

August 23, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

You wingnuts on this blog sound frightfully familiar to the Taliban. You want to try to force your beliefs on others.

If you don’t like sex, freedom of religion, abortion, homosexuality, peace, global warming, clean environment, universal healthcare, etc, then go to Afghanistan. The Taliban already supports your extremist beliefs.

But shut the h*ll up. You will not be forcing your beliefs on others.

Nobody has asked you to have sex with them, become muslim, get an abortion, have gay sex, attend a peace rally, sell your SUV, clean up an oil spill, or give up your health insurance.

This is America. Land of the free. Shut the h*ll up. The next election will shut you up.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

“O’Reilly: “Now, Republicans - are anybody on the right, on the Republican side appealing to you, Bill Maher?”

Maher: “They’re appealing to me as a comedian -”

O’Reilly: Ok, but you wouldn’t vote for them unless hell froze over.”

Maher: ” Right. But I would like to see the cross-dresser and the Mormon run together.””

And Paul called Maher a neocon.

Geez.

By IN THE NEWS

August 23, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

The Analogy Quagmire

By Can't Resist

August 23, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

The Wizard of Oil

By getalife

August 23, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Iraq has chosen to ally with Iran and Syria.

Reid was right, get out, deal with it and move on.

Geez.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Goldie 8:34

[[The Repugnants were all chanting “we have to fight ‘em over there” back in the 70’s, too. They don’t know any other way to solve foreign policy conflicts.]]

If I remember correctly, Johnson was a Democrat?

Nixon was elected with a “secret plan” to end the war, trashed McGovern and went on to win with one of the largest margins in history. One doesn’t do that by receiving votes only from Republicans – plenty of Democrats helped put him in the White House.

Goldie 9:01

I understand the VFW audience was “quietly respectful’? Not cheering and whooping and hollering. I wonder why… I’ll be interested to hear if many give interviews in the next few days.

9:05

Only if the new President’s name is Kucinich or Richardson. Else, it’ll be more moving the pieces around the chess board while the game continues. Especially Hillary. She’s looking like a pretzel. Obama – I think he’s given it far more thought than many want to give him credit -

In The News

The Maj Gen Batiste article – more of the same. Here’s a clue as to why he was “silent” while on active duty (which plays to the myth that the military, especially at the senior level, is comprised of a bunch of bobble-heads who don’t know how to formulate a dissenting opinion). His intro line:

[[I turned my back on over 31 years of service and what by all accounts would have been a great career.]]

31 years. Two stars. And he writes of “what could have been a great career” ?!!? Could have been?!!? It’s the allure of the next star, the prominent posting – maybe Army Chief of Staff? Command of a unified command? - that contributes to the silence when you’re the primary assistant to one of the architects of the disaster, or when asked directly while in command of one of the major units in Iraq, out of line of cameras and reporters, to say “everything’d be fine if I had more troops.”

Plenty of military people have buyer’s remorse. He could do his penance in a less than public way.

By Hey Mr Paul

August 23, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

“Plenty of military people have buyer’s remorse. He could do his penance in a less than public way.”

Yes he could. But in this case that would make him a neocon and un-american.

His doing his penance in public allows us to see the truth.

But we know the truth hurts.

The hurt just scares the shiite outa’ you people.

What a shame.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

My goodness, what a moron:

{{{{By mm August 23, 2007 10:28 AM This is America. Land of the free. Shut the h*ll up.}}}}

Land of the free, shut the hell up, haha, what a rube.

My response was to another one of you mentally stunted mouth breathers, who was forcing your pervert beliefs onto Jesus Christ.

If you want to mire your self and your soul in depravity, if you want to be a full time freak of nature, if you want to trample morality, go right ahead sicko, I could care less.

But when you force your degeneracy on my Savior and his Children then I’m going to have a problem with it.

You’re right, this is a free country and I should be able to live free of your decadence.

Keep it to yourself, scumbag.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

getalife

I called Maher a neocon? Really? I thought I said:

[[He was asked his opinion on the Dem/Rep candidates and their positions on Iraq. He gave Sen Biden’s partitioning plan as likely the best option. When told “but won’t that require US troops for another 3-4 years?” he answered “I’m not up on the details.”

Amazingly shocking comment from someone who is a major commentator on the situation there. Give a sound bite, get asked to discuss the implications, give a dismissive cop-out. I really expected better from him.]]

Sen Biden could have discussed the implications.

Wait, I think I get it. Since Maher made a general statement but couldn’t discuss the implications because he’s “not up on details” THAT makes him a neocon. Lessee, Hillary’s a neocon too? Interesting election!

Duh 9:06

Some would argue they were nationalists first, communists second. Or dictators we preferred to call communists. Either way, the “communist takeover of southeast Asia” was not directed by a monolithic power and were more home-grown affairs. Didn’t last long, by and large. Cambodia and Laos have democratic forms of government. Vietnam? Typical of the evolution of many communist nations. Don’t really remember what other counties were included in the communist takeover of the entire region.

By and large, I think it’s a pretty fallacious argument. People wondered what would happen after Rove left. Now we know.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

BO uses a Mike Stark tactic

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Mr Paul 10:53

“You people?” You mean people who don’t give much credibility to someone who was a player who now portrays himself as a champion? Who went along to get along and now sees the result of his actions? But never, ever, never talks about his role? Only the roles of those under whom he served? Ah, yes, “those” people.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Paul, I disagree (respectfully, of course). Batiste may have buyer’s remorse, but I think it took balls to come out and say it so publically. It is alarming to me that so many high up military [insert rank here] have come out against the war. No matter how the neo-cons spin it, that says a lot.

Sure, he may have been an assistant to the architect at the beginning, but that’s what guys like him do. That’s their job. The war four years ago, was a totally different war than what it is now.

And don’t forget - many people now, including those in the military, are rubbing their heads going “What the hell are we doing in IRAQ? Why are we still here and why aren’t we going after the real terrorists? ”

I think Batiste was trying to express how frustrated he is with the mishandling of the war and how it has put not only our troops in danger, but also our country.

The past few days with the news about Maliki is very disheartening, Bush and his cronies were played by the book.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

{{{{By Paul August 23, 2007 10:55 AM Either way, the “communist takeover of southeast Asia” was not directed by a monolithic power and were more home-grown affairs. Didn’t last long, by and large. Cambodia and Laos have democratic forms of government.}}}}

Even China feared Vietnam’s communist takeover of the region:

{{{{The Sino–Vietnamese War or Third Indochina War was a brief but bloody border war fought in 1979 between the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The PRC launched the offensive largely in response to Vietnam’s invasion and subsequent occupation of Cambodia, a war which ended the reign of PRC-backed Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge. After a brief incursion into Northern Vietnam, PRC troops withdrew about a month later.}}}}

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Do we have a witness to

””“when you force your degeneracy on my Savior and his Children??”“”

We need CSI:Heaven to look for powder burns on Christ’s temple.

What a shame

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hey Mr. Danish,

You are a clueless FOOL.

Bosch,

Before the Left took over academia, Higher Education in this country was stellar indeed, and actually produced educated students. However, indoctrination is not education, just as “consensus” is not “science”.

I have contempt for political-correctness in general.

I have contempt for thought control and “speech codes” and all sorts of Marxist inspired concepts that are de rigeur on college campuses.

I have contempt for universities which eliminate Western Civilization survey courses.

I have contempt for universities which no longer teach the “Great Books”.

I have contempt for colleges which can’t even teach Shakespeare without politicizing it.

I have contempt for segregated dorms and segregated graduations.

I have contempt for “preferences” doled out based on race, gender and ethnicity.

I have contempt for colleges whose professors routinely teach our students to hate America and view everything through a lens of “racism”, “sexism”, “imperialism” and “genocide” instead of through “hope” and “opportunity” and “unity”.

I have contempt for anyone who falls for this poisonous tripe.

Shall I continue?

By Hey Mr Paul

August 23, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

””“You mean people who don’t give much credibility to someone who was a player who now portrays himself as a champion? Who went along to get along and now sees the result of his actions?”“”

Course not Putz.

I meant YOU.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Bosch

I think Gen Batiste and a few others get cited because their criticism is couched largely in terms of criticizing the administration and Pres Bush. While many other retired general officers will do the same, it’s more in passing as they discuss the processes, politics and failure to heed the lessons of history that got us there. Gens Batiste, Eaton, et al seem to me more playing to an audience and making it personal - not policy analysis.

Remember the Lt Col, just out of Army War College, (I’ll get specifics if you want) who a few months back had an article published in their journal excoriating senior Army leadership for their incompetence (his word) and for living through Vietnam but not remembering the lessons (mainly keeping silent or going along with their civilian leaders)? That guy has a point.

The Batistes come across (to me) as innocent onlookers. And when questioned about their roles, the answers are less than convincing.

His “job” was to fight like hell for what he believed was right. Press until he was told to stand down. Personally, I don’t think he had any more foresight than anyone else as to where we were headed.

Frankly, I think it’s kind of funny (in a sad way) to listen to the criticisms of the Maliki government. Seems to me he could say the same exact things about our Administration and Congress -

By Hey Mr Danish

August 23, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

No Mr. Danish. You are the clueless fool.

You are also a LIAR.

and one hell of a gullible PUTZ.

5 kids hey? Any in the military?

By Hey Mr Paul

August 23, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

“seem to me more playing to an audience and making it personal - not policy analysis.”

RUBBISH

By Rev Haggard

August 23, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

You libs are pervs. I spent valuable Its time the Liberals started paying for their own sins. The me, me attitude. The if it feels good do it. Disgusting.

Liberals are destroying the fabric of America. Liberals are diseased.

With the help of churches like mine and of course with the help of our Catholic Priests, we will one day take this country back from the God-less.

I pray for the Liberals everyday.

Pray with me Duh.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

“…you have the patience of Job”.

Goldilocks,

Knowing how much you loathe Christianity, I do hope you won’t take it out on Midori personally for alluding to the Old Testament and thus shoving religion down our throats.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Duh 11:07

Yes, but a key difference was not that N Vietnam was exhibiting expansionist behavior, but it was one communist country fighting another over the standard issue - power.

1969 - USSR nearly used nukes against China in their fight along the Ussuri River. Had nothing to do with dominoes or such - just two countries whose communism didn’t interfere with their attacking each other.

Hey Mr. Paul 11:14

Of course that was evident. But as you took the easy way out by sliding away from a point-counterpoint based upon knowledge of the situation and went the namecalling route, trying to turn the discussion into one of personality, I chose to through my answer to get back to the topic.

Do you have one of those sheets that has three columns, each of which has words like “neocon” or “unAmerican” or “tyrant” or such, and when you compose you go to a row and string together the words in the columns?

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Hey Mr. Danish,

Can I translate all your juvenile posts to read, ” Neener! Neener!” or do I have to slog through them?

And where have I ever said anything about having 5 kids??

By getalife

August 23, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

wingnuts chose the path of war and hatred.

Repent or burn in hell.

God save America †

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Buy Danish 11:28

And you wonder why some people here have such and “interesting” view of history and how you can look at what they’ve written and ask “in which universe?”?

By N-GA

August 23, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

I’ve always been taught that what separates us from animals is the ability to reason. That said, each individual can use reason to determine their fate for eternity. Sometimes they may seek the guidance of others, but they should be FREE to accept or reject that advice.

Many have tried to impose their ideas of how we should live on their fellow man. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and Chavez quickly come to mind. But then so did many of our first colonists settling America (Puritans?).

Within the context of human behavior there are certain actions that are unacceptable. However, religious dogma should not dictate law. Whose dogma should prevail?

Examples include abortion, working on Saturday, oral sex, polygamy, buying liquor on Sunday, etc.

What interests me most is that many of those who profess to love FREEDOM would deny others some of these things. IMHO the state should be clearly secular, respecting the beliefs of all provided those beliefs fall within what should be considered acceptable human behavior (no human sacrifice, etc.).

I expect that most Americans find it Orwellian that the PRC limits the number of children a couple may have. Fast forward 500 years and extrapolate the human condition if our behavior does not change. You may not think that restricting how many children a couple may have is quite so unthinkable.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

{{Your contempt for higher education is also well documented here. Do you realize that higher education in this country keeps the USA from falling under the category of “developing country?”}}

Bosch— and I guess what Danish-DUHHH is trying to say is that we should be teaching the neo-Conservative values in our colleges instead, such as:

— “WAR IS THE ANSWER”,

— “The Earth is still flat”,

— “All pregnant women have to carry a fetus through the birth process— no ifs, ands, or buts!”,

— “science is BAD”, and

— “God created the universe in 7 days because it’s written in Genesis”, etc.

… what a narrow, small-minded world they would teach our kids!

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

getalife

“Burn in hell”

Another concept for which we can thank the Persians.

Theological troublemakers -

By Hey Mr Paul

August 23, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

“”Do you have one of those sheets that has three columns, each of which has words like “neocon” or “unAmerican” or “tyrant” or such, and when you compose you go to a row and string together the words in the columns?”“

Nope, I just listen to the folks on the street.

And in the Grocers

And at the Barbers

And in line at the movies

And in the airport

And in the workplace

And in the church hall

Everybody is using those terms these days.

Take off your blinders.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Bwahahahahahaha. This is not a joke, but is dead serious:

“How to be Politically-correct in College”.

Bosch, I do hope you taught your children to follow these rules.

Kerist.

By the way, there is also a guide for how to be politically correct in the workplace.

Tip: Don’t you dare call someone a “chairman”!.

The “correct” term is “Chairperson” or simply “Chair”.

That strikes me as a particularly poor solution to gender inequality issues. I am a woman and a human being, and not a piece of furniture, dammit! How sexist can you get?

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

{{Gens Batiste, Eaton, et al seem to me more playing to an audience and making it personal - not policy analysis.}}

Oh great— here’s Paul again tsk-tsking because we’re trying to make the WAR a “personal” issue!

Too bad, Paul! Not all of us just live up in our own heads all the time, analyzing everything going on without making any “personal” connections in life. I’m sure you get along real well with your own family members, just analyzing situations all the time and trying to control their emotions day in and day out, by reminding them not to make their own problems so “personal”…

Kee-rist!

By Truthman

August 23, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

“TO ANNOUNCE THERE MUST BE NO CRITICISIM OF THE PRESIDENT, AND TO STAND BY THE PRESIDENT, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS NOT ONLY UNPATRIOTIC AND SERVILE, IT IS MORALLY TREASONOUS TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC!”

-Teddy Roosevelt

Go ahead, wingnuts (@@, Bye Danish, D’oh), and try to refute a REAL President!!

Bunch of Nazis!!

By Hey Mr Danish

August 23, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

You are right…wasn’t you

You all sound so much alike.

””“Can I translate all your juvenile posts to read, ” Neener! Neener!” or do I have to slog through them?”“”

You couldn’t accurately translate the directions on a shampoo bottle!

Slog? An appropriate term for your thinking process.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

Paul,

Repent your hatred for Persians.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

{{“I am a woman and a human being, and not a piece of furniture, dammit! How sexist can you get?”}}

Gosh, and I just was thinking that Danish-DUHHH would make an excellent chair herself; ya know, really be a useful piece of furniture herself here on Earth, and have some kinda purpose to her existence… instead of not really being able to contribute anything coherent to a discussion — just like a piece of furniture!

of just blabbering on and on with her nonsense every day

By Paul

August 23, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

N-GA

Some societies, like the Amish, separate themselves, make their rules and if you want to be part of them, fine. If not, you’re free to go somewhere else.

The difficulty can come when some will say all “moral” judgments are based upon religion - no murder, for instance. But I think you were speaking of personal conduct issues - how to have sex, when to work, etc. I’ll go along with that.

You cited political leaders, also religious intervention. My take: both are less about political or religious philosophy and more about personal power. Granted, some see it as their religious duty to legislate standards for the good of the community - which is why we have a Judiciary as a check.

Taken to an extreme (what we view as extreme, others view as good and normal) we have the Muslim fundamentalists - and their danger is in the call of the Crusaders - “convert or die.”

Just led to another thought - the topic’s been imposing beliefs. Does a possible back door way to accomplishing this come in the form of accommodating beliefs - through special government-sponsored programs, facilities or speech?

By MomCat

August 23, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

August 23, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this A{{{{Atlanta bill would outla public show of underwear Thongs, boxers and bras, oh my! Saggy pants raise alarm, but critics say indecency plan is biased.}}}} Biased? Showing the world the crack of your as-s is a constitutionally protected right?

**In very bad taste? Yes. Ensuring you’ll likely be placed on the ‘no hire’ list when you apply for employment? Probably.
ILLEGAL? No. What happens when the sweet little Church Lady is strolling through the shopping center, and her bra strap falls? This is just plain silly. Let schools place dress codes on students if they wish, but this proposal is ludicrous.

By Dept of Slogans

August 23, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

In a year in a half, more precisely the exact day that the new Democrat President takes the oath of office, wingnuts like Duh, @@, Buy Danish and Dusty will all be here screaming that its their right to criticize the president, that America has a rich tradition of it, and spout off about Free speech constantly.

Lets book mark this and comeback to it in a year and a half. I guarantee these same kooky wingnuts will be here. They seem to live here.

They will grant themselves the typical Republican waiver of “special rights”

Any friendly wagers on the matter?

By Paul

August 23, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Hey Mr Paul 11:42

My kids tried the “but everybody’s doing it” line, too. Didn’t buy it then, don’t buy it now.

Goldie 11:43

Sigh. You missed the point. Again. I was not referring to “making the war (I think you mean Iraq?) personal.” I was referring to how the Batistes and co. are given airtime because of the amount of backwards-looking Administration-attack contained in their comments.

Plenty of other retired military analysts out there who say “Administration’s blowing it here, here’s how they got there and here’s what should be done now.” Even Navy Admirals. But the emphasis is on the battle, not the person.

Last part - sounds like some control issues, there, Goldie. Sorry to get so personal. But another question. How has the Iraq war affected you? Personally? Not in how you feel. Or your emotions. Or is it all emotions?

As I said, if FDR had looked at Lend-Lease, Pearl Harbor, etc in strictly emotional, nonanalytic terms we’d be eating sushi while speaking German. Go to war? Endanger my kids? Heck no!

But, I suppose it is easier for some to react with emotion to everything around them. That’s fine. But why the condemnation of those who don’t? Sounds a bit like the imposition of beliefs on others N-GA just wrote about.

getalife 11:46

[[Repent your hatred for Persians.]]

I’m trying. I really am. It’s just so… emotional… and… personal!

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish, I’m going to addresss some of your points:

When did “the left” take over academia?

What do you mean, specifically, when you wrote that “Marxist inspired concepts” are the norm on college campuses, or is that just a pre-conceived assumption you have about college coursework.

What are these “great books” you speak of? Is there a list somewhere? Do you not think that there have been plenty of good works written in the past 200 years that has a little bit more of an application to our world today?

Also, can you provide a college or university which has banned the teaching of these so-called “great books?

Tell me how you can teach Shakespeare in a college literature class WITHOUT politicizing it considering that Shakespeare’s plays, at least a good majority of them, WERE POLITICAL? Have you ever read a Shakespeare play - not watched a movie, but actually READ one?

Segretated dorms and segregated graduations? Example please? Where does this happen? Now, I know they have boy and girl dorms, but, we can’t have our young adults cohabitating /sarc/.

Again, I need clarification for what you meant by prefernces doled out based on race, gender and ethnicity. Are you talking about college admissions or is that just some kind of rhetorical bunk you threw out?

Do you know what I have contempt for? People who think that their way of thinking is the absolute and truth of everything. I think you have contempt for higher education because they teach our young adults how to think critically. I do not know of a college today (except maybe Bob Jones University or Liberty University) that teaches, even slightly, these concepts that you mentioned as the absolute truth.

And until you give examples to the contrary, it makes your argument seem trite (and a little jealous and bitter).

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Goldie @ 11:37

Are you actually proud of that pitiful post?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I do not believe that “The universe was created in 7 days”, so you can drop that line of “thought”.

If you must know, I believe that a “day” in Biblical terms is a metaphor for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years and that, using that parameter to define “time”, Genesis’ explanation of creation is as good an explanation as to how life began as any scientific explanation - and has the added benefit of being beautifully written.

But hey, if you know something I don’t know about how life began, do feel free to “share” your ideas with us. You certainly are the expert (and a champion!) on how to end life in the womb, so I look forward to you theories.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Bosch,

I am off to the pool so I will have to answer your plaintive queries later - if I have time.

Most of your questions DO have answers, although I’m not sure you want to hear them since they will prove me right and you wrong.

Or, I could just use rushcap’s “debating” technique and tell you that “I won’t do your research for you”.

If you like his technique, an easy topic to start with is to look to Berkeley for examples of separate graduations and separate dorms.

Later?

By Just Wondering

August 23, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

August 23, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this The New England Journal of Medicine does a study that should make us all smile. Duh calls them liberals, like it’s a dirty word, and adds “Whatever happened to acting your age?”.

Does this mean that only liberals study medicine? Just wondering…..

By Paul

August 23, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish 12:09

Careful - don’t you know that no matter what you post, many will tell you what (or if) you really believe, what you really think, what you’ve really done? Or that you can’t really be conservative, and a Christian, and express “those” views because everyone just knows what people who are politically conservative believe regarding theology? The omniscience is a bit jarring -

I’m away for a while - cheers

By RE

August 23, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Bush and the war are linked, personal critisism is valid. The policy of war is enacted and directed by the president of the united states. He is the commander in chief, the buck stops there. The battle has been directed by the person, GWB.

So far as backward looking critism, I am not sure there is any other kind, it is tough to critize something that did not happen yet, that is called speculation.

These retired generals had the job of following orders. The idea that the only reasonable action for these people to take was to resign thier commision if they did not agree with the policy of war is unfounded.

So far as a personal effect of the war, figuring a cost of 1 trillion in war related cost, everyone pays. And it sure has not made gas any cheaper either.

By GodHatesTrash

August 23, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Well, Bi Danish, it is simple enough (perhaps not simple enough for someone as simple-minded as you, but nevertheless…) to refer to the leader of the meeting as “Madame Chair”, or in your case “Madame Toilet Seat”.

Trash.

By Truthman

August 23, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Bosch,

I see where Bye Danish couldn’t come up with any answers to your queries.

Don’t be sad! That’s typical of the neo-conmen and women; throw out a bunch of vitriol and white victimization clap-trap, but, when asked to give concrete examples, they blame you for asking.

Bunch of treasonous butt-hole surfers.

By Just Wondering

August 23, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

By Goldie August 23, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this {{Her barely veiled shot at the Clinton household, plagued by Bill’s infidelity, was risky.}} Andy-DUH, you just can’t face the idea that Mrs. Obama was also speaking to Rudy’s family, and McCain’s family, and

Goldie, just wondering again….how many of those potential Republican candidates for president have had multiple marriages?? I believe the only one who hasn’t is Mitt Romney (hummmmmmm). Why couldn’t these ex-wives run an orderly house???

By N-GA

August 23, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Paul,

I don’t really know the answer to your question. On the one hand I hate to get government too involved. On the other hand I believe government to be necessary to protect the people from those who would abuse their rights in the pursuit of money and power.

A simple example: Should an individual be allowed to go on TV and advertise his “flab-to-ab” machine as “the best way to get rid of that fat belly and get a nice 6-pack” when the truth is closer to “give me your hard-earned money and keep your fat belly”.

Many say that this individual should be allowed to say whatever he wants (free speech) and the market will judge his product. Others say that he is deceiving the public with false claims. So far it seems that the government generally allows unscrupulous businessmen to continue to take advantage of the trusting public…again and again and again.

And yet most of those who side with the businessman also tend to be those who talk the most about morality (I apologize, a little, for the stereotype). I see nothing moral about selling a crappy product to gullible people.

Back to the topic. Mormons are required to obey the laws concerning polygamy. Personally I would leave that up to them as long as no children are abused, and as long as the adults are willing. Those cases where family units produce numerous children, then take advantage of welfare laws to subsidize their lifestyle are certainly wrong and should be excluded from any such benefits. The religious community should take care of its own.

Good grief…this is starting to ramble and I need sustenance. Back later.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

It’s always interesting to hear today’s war-mongers comparing our military today with what was happening during WWII, Korea and Viet Nam and the “resolve” that America had during those wars… they conveniently leave out the fact that America had a military DRAFT that kept enrollment UP for those wars.

We have military generals and analysts today who’re saying that our military is stretched to the breaking point, and that we can’t keep our occupation going in Iraq past next spring, as far as having military-readiness…

So where are you war-monger trolls suggesting we get the military personnel we’ll need to continue your occupation of the Middle East on into the next decade or two? Andy-DUH??? Dust-For-Brains-DUH??? Paul-DUH??? Headcase-DUH??? Danish-DUHHH???

By mm

August 23, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Duh,

I apoligize. I thought you were either a drunk and/or drug addict.

It turns out that your problem is that you are a Bible-thumping religious zealot. Probably a southern baptist preacher.

You are the mirror image of the Muslim extremists that you so despise.

And that goes for the rest of you wingnuts.

You are proof that religion causes hatred and wars.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Oh, I’m waited with baited breath for your reply, but I know you won’t have the guts to even try.

You are already backpeddling. You said “I have contempt for SEGREGATED dorms and SEGREGATED graduations” and then give BERKELEY as an example to prove you are right?

Buy Danish, all large colleges and universities have to have SEPERATE graduations because it would take a week to hand out diplomas (okay, that’s an exagerration, but I hope you get my point). They are SEPERATE, not SEGREGATED.

AND No where on Berkley’s website did I find it their policy to segregate students in their residence halls - there is no seperation of students based on their race (which is what segregation is).

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Good grief, so much kaka, so little time in this busy day…good thing I smoked my wheaties this morning…

DUH @9:40 -“So Jesus was in favor of killing unborn children, teaching innocent pre teen children how to have sex or even “change their gender,” evolution, homosexuality, not protecting innocent people from barbarians, euthanasia and all the other disgusting things that you liberals are?”

I just don’t get how neo-con, evangelistic nut jobs seem to have no ability to keep any topic in its historical context…duh brain, I only see two of the “liberal evils” you have listed that Jesus was even faced with over 2000 yrs ago…homosexuality and protecting innocent people…Jesus had NOTHING to say about homosexuality…and I challange you to find where he did…and yes, Jesus was all about protecting the innocent as are all compassionate reasonable people - whether conservative or progressive. And might I add…I would think that any christians on the blog would admonish you to shut the hell up…you make a p** poor example of christianity with all of the hate you spew daily…which is why I usually just skim your posts at best. I suggest you try a little compassion with your christianity…might hold more holy water.

SSM @9:50- “Remember, when the baby boomers were chanting “no rain” at woodstock, the Islamics were chanting, “Death to America” in the middle east, and those people came here, and now consider themselves americans.

But half of them also insist that they are Muslims first, and Americans second. (CNN survey)”

Uh, second hand man…why don’t you try asking conservative christians right here in the good ol usofa where they’re priorities are…I was always taught, God first, then family and country…you might think about protecting your mind against racism.

BD @10:03- “The founders were liberals in the classic sense, and they were Christians - something modern liberals refuse to acknowledge.

Modern day “liberals” are not interested in free speech, the free interchange of ideas (and freedom of religion which I mention only because you brought it up) and they do everything they can to silence conservative thought, particularly on college campuses.”

buy stupid…these are the stupidest two paragraphs you have posted in a while…first off, can you tell m

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

My goodness, what a rube:

{{{{By N-GA August 23, 2007 11:36 AM Within the context of human behavior there are certain actions that are unacceptable. However, religious dogma should not dictate law. Whose dogma should prevail? Examples include abortion, working on Saturday, oral sex, polygamy, buying liquor on Sunday, etc. What interests me most is that many of those who profess to love FREEDOM would deny others some of these things.}}}}

Religion in America is a CHOICE, duh.

No beliefs are forced on those the choose to reject their Creator, you are not forced to live by any “tyranny,” unless of course you are a citizen of Vietnam after America abandoned them.

~~~~~

My goodness, what a rube:

{{{{By Just Wondering August 23, 2007 12:16 PM August 23, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this The New England Journal of Medicine does a study that should make us all smile. Duh calls them liberals, like it’s a dirty word, and adds “Whatever happened to acting your age?”. Does this mean that only liberals study medicine? Just wondering…..}}}}

So it took a study for you liberals to “discover” normal sexual relations between a man and a woman, hahahaha, geez, what a dork.

~~~~~

My goodness, what a rube:

{{{{By Goldie August 23, 2007 12:31 PM So where are you war-monger trolls suggesting we get the military personnel we’ll need to continue your occupation of the Middle East on into the next decade or two? Andy-DUH???}}}}

From the Iraqi army?

Duh.

By Truthman

August 23, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

I took an Eastern European Communism course at UGA in 1979 with Ralph Reed.

Not once did I EVER see or hear his ultra-conservative views criticized by our professor. He let everyone share their view, and he knew that, ultimately, we would have to decide for ourselves what we believed.

Quit attacking Universities, especially if you are envious of those of us who actually WENT to an institution of higher learning. It’s like all the idiots - mostly southerners - who say “I hate New York” but, of course, have never been north of the Mason-Dixon line in their sorry little lives.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

RE 12:21

Also N-GA. Saw your posts, decided to stick around. Sorry if this shows up after a similar post - wrong key and I exited the blog.

Criticism IS valid - and necessary. Point was much is repetitive - much of the analysis and answers have that as a mainstay.

I said “backwards looking” to emphasize the “backwards” - absent many recommendations to go forward.

Many of those generals were in on the planning, initial execution, and operation of the plan. Much is made of “accountability” when it comes to the President or SecDef or intel chiefs, yet I’ve yet to hear any of these guys say “I really blew it.” To listen to them they were innocent bystanders.

It’s their responsibility to follow orders //when the decision has been made//. Until then, especially when they are in a policy or advising position, their responsibility is to advance and fight for every improvement, find every flaw, recommend any changes, that would ensure mission success. Some of these generals even left those positions and took command of combat units in Iraq. And they sounded just like the rest of the officials. Even when they were given private opportunities the main criticism seemed to be “give me more troops and I’ll get the job done.”

Being is such a position of responsibility, and having grave reservations over the course ordered or the implications of the policy, should propel one towards resigning. Even in an non-war situation. Air Force Chief of Staff Ron Fogleman is a shining example of that kind of integrity.

N-GA

Which is why I take a libertarian view of many things. Live and let live. But that also means I don’t drop everything to “rescue” someone who’d in an unfortunate way.

Your flab example - another reason I’m skeptical of many “market” explanations and like a strong oversight by gov’t agencies. Same as I wrote the other day about the subprime mortgage situation - people graduate from high school with how

con’t

By getalife

August 23, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

“We have requested to review federally owned computers that Mr. Foley used during his time as a representative, but the U.S. House of Representatives … cited case law restrictions that prohibited them from releasing those computers,” said Heather Smith, an FDLE spokeswoman.

Freedom for thee but not for me.

This is bad.

Geez.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

sorry…got dropped bd - can you tell me exactly WHEN liberals took over academia? And do you really want to go comparing liberals and conservatives on free speech and freedom of religion? Cause we can…it would be an exercise in futility though…especially since you still haven’t accepted the fact that our founding fathers were NOT christian…at least not today’s idea of christianity…again, historical context..buy dumb…historical context. Sounds like your just getting outnumbered in the academic setting and are feeling overwhelmed…get used to it…your numbers are growing smaller by min.

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

August 23, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

{{It used to be that our elderly were role models for the younger generation, graceful, modest and wise, but now they are self absorbed morons no better than most teenagers:}}

Andi/e-duh needs to work on her resentment list. S/he hasn’t had sexual intercourse since her German Shepherd Adolf died.

Helps explain her hatred of Michael Vick, too.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

N-GA

Con’t -

People graduate from high school with how much training in finance? They have a dream of providing for their families and they get given a pitch and a contract many college graduates couldn’t understand the implications of? I think that’s a classic government role of “protecting the weak.”

A correction about the polygamy thing. Mormons outlawed that over a century ago. Penalty now is pretty much excommunication on the spot. Several groups call themselves “Mormon this” or “Mormon that” but it’s rather like a neocon Swiftboat group calling themselves “Democratic reformers for Hillary.” They can call themselves whatever they want - doesn’t make them part of the group.

I’m right behind ya’ on the sustenance thing -

Goldie 12:31

Geez (nickel to getalife) - I answered this the other day. I suggested cancelling some major weapons programs (F-22, F-35, carriers, subs), doing a nearly complete withdrawal from Europe, most of the far East, same with southeast and southwest Asia, central and south America. Then a major facilities closing (sorry, Robins) and a huge restructuring to eliminate headquarters and overlapping functions.

Then take out civilian organizations. Tennessee Valley Authority. Farm subsidies. Ethanol subsidies. I mentioned a bunch more earlier.

I also made the point a draft, with more ground troops, could actually encourage military adventurism. I cited Pres Clinton’s Secretary of State Madeline Albright’s comment to General Powell: “what’s the use of having this military if you never use it?”

There. I’ve said it again. Now, your suggestions? Or are you pleased as punch with the status quo?

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

{{From the Iraqi army?}}

Andy-DUHHH, so you’re suggesting that Iraq will become the 51st state during the next decade or something? Otherwise, how could the Iraqi army be considered part of “our occupation” of their own country??? DUHHHHH… maybe you need to go back and learn to read the English language?

DUH must really be behind the rest of the 3rd graders in his class…

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

{{{{By raisedanidiot August 23, 2007 12:36 PM Jesus had NOTHING to say about homosexuality…and I challange you to find where he did.}}}}

Jesus taught of the Holy Spirit and how He would guide the followers of Christ after his Ascension into Heaven. The Holy Spirit, working through the Apostle Paul, had plenty to say about homosexuality.

Maybe you should read the bible instead of babbling incoherently about things you know nothing of.

Like liberals not being in charge of our education system, geez, what a rube.

By RE

August 23, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Anyone remember the last time a college professor was dismissed for expressing his views?

Oh Yeah, Ward Churchill.

I guess he was a conservative in disuide BD

By RE

August 23, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

disguise,

wow, bad typo

By Just Wondering

August 23, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

August 23, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this My goodness, what a rube:

| Link to this The New England Journal of Medicine does a study that should make us all smile. Duh calls them liberals, like it’s a dirty word, and adds “Whatever happened to acting your age?”. Does this mean that only liberals study medicine? Just wondering…..}}}} So it took a study for you liberals to “discover” normal sexual relations between a man and a woman, hahahaha, geez, what a dork.

Was the study done by liberals? I believe the New England Journal of Medicine did the study, and you brough up the “liberal” business.

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Last I heard St Paul was not Jesus.

Maybe you should answer a question without ofuscation.

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Like Conservatives running our financial institutions.

Heck of a job!

PUTZ

By Paul

August 23, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

RE 1:07

Churchill’s views brought the spotlight on him. That led to an investigation that showed academic failures in other areas. Those failures were inconsistent with a professorship. He was dismissed.

It’s kinda like the Scooter Libby thing. The discussion of Ms Plame brought about an investigation of those involved. The investigation showed Libby lied and attempted to obstruct justice. He was convicted and dismissed.

And please, let’s not have any comments from the gallery of “yeah, but, but, Bush commuted part of Libby’s sentence!” That’s not connected to RE’s comment, or mine.

My lunch appointment’s here - later -

By getalife

August 23, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

US intelligence warns of ‘mini-Tet’ in Iraq

Yep, just like Vietnam.

Get out.

Geez.

By mm

August 23, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Yes everyone. You don’t need to go to school to learn anything. Everything you need to know is in the Bible.

Funny how these preachers can take one verse of the Bible and spend 30 minutes telling you what that verse really means. Were these preachers so important that they received a hotline to God that us ordinary folk were not worthy of?

Geez.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Did any of you catch Keith O’s show last night, where Ari Fleischer was on there cheerleading his war — he reminds me of “Baghdad Bob”, remember him? Always coming on the TV and claiming “we’re winning this war!”… so pathetic.

Even more pathetic is the fact that ole Baghdad Ari doesn’t even know the name of the disabled veteran he used in his own ad. Now, that’s how much he “supports” our troops — only to the extent he/she might be used for a propaganda tool! So very Republican…

Ari Fleischer comes from the GOP school of “support the troops.” In their world, the troops are only good as campaign props and for sloganeering. Fleischer proved that tonight. Fleischer is the spokesperson for a Bush-backed pro-Iraq war that’s attacking Republicans.

[

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

{{Being is such a position of responsibility, and having grave reservations over the course ordered or the implications of the policy, should propel one towards resigning.}}

Paul— And Gen. Batiste is another “shining example” of that integrity, having resigned after we invaded and occupied Iraq… looks like not all of our Generals simply “analyze” a war in their heads all the time, but instead they see the consequences in real human terms.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Duh, Some modern interpretations of the Apostle Paul’s “homosexuality rants” is that he is simply referring to people who go against their nature, it is not against the nature of a homosexual to be homosexual, but the concept of a “homosexual” was not around 2000 years ago. In the older texts (I think Greek) Paul never uses the word “homosexual” he uses natural and unnatural. He could have been talking about alot of things.

It’s another example of those who translate with agendas.

Also, homosexual acts were quite common among heterosexuals during Paul’s time - remember, Paul’s writings are in the book of ROMANS - maybe he was talking about paganism? That’s the good thing about the Bible, it can be interpreted many ways to help many people.

Now the Old Testament writings - who knows? I’m not a Jew.

Paul also said some negative things about women too.

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Pinko racist - Amerikkka’s Al Koward I August 23, 2007 12:57 PM Helps explain her hatred of Michael Vick, too.}}}}

Well, well, if it isn’t the galloping goomar, riding through the luckovich blog with his little pointy cap and white robe, spewing liberal “diversity” all around.

I think dead, tortured dogs is a pretty good reason to “hate” on Michael Vick, I could care less about your fantasy football league, klown.

~~~~~

{{{{By Goldie August 23, 2007 1:02 PM Otherwise, how could the Iraqi army be considered part of “our occupation” of their own country???}}}}

Deep breaths, goldilocks, breathe into a bag.

The more Iraqi soldiers get trained and kill Al Qaeda, the less U.S. soldiers will need to kill Al Qaeda.

It’s already a happening thing, whether you like it or not.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

{{The Holy Spirit, working through the Apostle Paul, had plenty to say about homosexuality.}}

ROFLMAO! You’ve gotta be kidding…

And we all know that “the Apostles” did not have any agenda other than what Jesus taught them, right???

Good Grief and Kee-rist!

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

August 23, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Andi/e-duh, many theologians and scholars believe that St. Paul was dealing with his own personal demons regarding homosexuality. Something a gal like you should be able to relate to…

It is God’s honest truth that there is no scripture that supports your contention that Jesus Christ Himself had anything to say about homosexuality. He did say “love one another”, how’s that working for you, girlfriend?

So, little lady, take Our advice, and clean up the sordid mess that is your pathetic hatefilled self-loathing life, instead of condemning others.

Lord, We Your Pope pray for Your Terrible Swift Sword of Justice to be delivered to the necks of the haters and the whiners, especially those who abuse Your Son’s Holy Name. Amen.

By Gonna Love 08

August 23, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

I is for Ignorant,

Is your shrink on vacation? You should have had him reup your meds before he left, you rants make no sense.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

duh brain - is the bush-head also being “guided by the holy spirit”? That explains a lot…thanks. BTW…spent 6 yrs. in seminary, putz.

By Shame me once

August 23, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

baghdad bob? What about washington george? “We’re winning this war!”, says washington george. “The surge is working”, and “Mission Accomplished”.

Washington George has as much credibility as Baghdad Bob.

They both are clowns. (and both should be exiled to the island of elba)

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

””“The more Iraqi soldiers get trained and kill Al Qaeda, the less U.S. soldiers will need to kill Al Qaeda.”“”

That reminds me…

Whatever happened to all those brigades of trained Iraqi’s Condi was talking about during her conformation hearings?

Could she have been telling lies?

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Bosch August 23, 2007 1:30 PM In the older texts (I think Greek) Paul never uses the word “homosexual” he uses natural and unnatural. He could have been talking about alot of things. It’s another example of those who translate with agendas.}}}}

Hear God’s word:

{{{{24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.- Romans 1}}}}

Just for you, Goldilocks:

{{{{2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [2] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [3] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Romans 8}}}}

Amen.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Raisedanidiot, The other Bosch is also a recent seminarian graduate - I was the “study buddy” and learned a lot myself.

Oh, I meant to ask you something the other day - you said you were 5’3” and around 100 lbs right? You also said, your ex was a Baptist preacher, is that right too? I know what happened to your first marriage - you obviously don’t know how to fry chicken and that makes all the difference in the world to a Baptist preacher. If you knew how to properly fry chicken you would weigh much more than 100 lbs. Ha ha, you know I’m kidding :-)

That funny thought occured to me the other day when you mentioned your height and weight.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

duh will burn in hell for his hatred and warmongering mind set.

Many in the gop should repent or follow duh into the gates of hell.

God save America and have no mercy on the wingnuts souls.

Amen †

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.”

Yeah, Andy-DUH— it’s too bad that you’re unable to set your “mind on the things of the Spirit.” It would really do you a world of good to starting practicin’ what you’re preachin’…

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Andy-DUH does more in one day to turn away potential “recruits” to his religion just by posting his hate-filled garbage here every weekday… like anyone would want to follow YOUR LEAD, DUH???

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Still no real Jesus from Duh.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Duh, Those are the Apostle Paul’s words and if you look at the WHOLE CHAPTER, and put that into context, he could have just as easily been talking about those who seek power, or those who care more about the pleasures of life and vices than worshiping God. Nope, nothing about homosexuality in there.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Bosch - LOL!! That’s too funny you mentioned that…our first fight WAS over how to fry chicken…he wanted me to keep the skins on…can’t go around eating naked chicken…ha ha

Dull brain - that letter was written by Paul to the church in Rome in A.D. 56 or 57…he probably wrote this letter in preparation for his visit….Paul also said a lot of idiotic things like say…women shouldn’t cut their hair or teach men…divorce is adultry…slaves should obey their masters…want me to go on…one of these are bound to embarass the stew out of you…moron!

By Paul

August 23, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Goldie 1:25

To recap about the General Batistes of the world: a day late, a dollar short, with no mention of personal responsibility. But if that’s your idea of a integrity and a role model, have at it -

Maybe I’ve missed it in my reading. Perhaps you can enlighten me - where did he or the others say “I screwed up”? When did he say “this is how we correct the course”? Where did he say “this is how the general officer corps failed”? Where has he said “this is where we should be a year from now and this is how we should get there”?

Unless you know it off the top of your head, don’t bother looking. I’ve a feeling (get that, huh? A “feeling!!”) it’s not in the record -

By Midori

August 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Andy quoting scripture?

What will he do next? Beat his wife?

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Apparently^^, liberals are going to believe what liberals want to believe, regardless.

GFY (good for you.)

Isn’t it amazing that centuries ago, Paul knew about al-Gore when he wrote “those who worship the creature instead of the Creator.”

Either that or there were dumb as-s liberals back in 0090, hahaha.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

You know Duh, I need to apologize to you for something. It is my opinion, that the Bible can be interpreted many ways, and I feel that my last post was hypocritical to say there is nothing about homosexuality in that passage, because if that’s what you believe, that’s fine. It’s not my business, and I would like to sincerely apologize.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Raisedanidiot, See? I am very intuative about people. You are better off without him, fried chicken, while very tasty, is not very good for your health.

By Hey Mr Duh

August 23, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Apparently, neo cons are going to believe what neo cons want to believe, regardless.

It’s easier than dealing with the truth that hurts

By getalife

August 23, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil”

Amen †

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Bosch - believe me, fried chicken was the least of my worries with that dck brain…don’t even get me started.

By mm

August 23, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Duh,

God’s word? Hate to tell you but the Bible was written by man. So was the Koran. Were the writers lucky enough to get the hotline to God/Allah?

People all over the world interpret the Bible and Koran to their benefit. Just like you are trying to do today.

I spent my youth in a southern baptist church (not by choice). Full of hypocrites. I now refuse to subject myself to that crap.

Do I believe in God? Yes I do.

Do I believe everything in the Bible? No I don’t.

Example: Noah and the Ark is the most farfetched story in the Bible. Noah collected 2 of everything? He would have had to collect:

287,655 plants, including: 15,000 mosses, 13,025 ferns, 980 gymnosperms, 199,350 dicotyledons, 59,300 monocotyledons;

74,000-120,000 fungi[2];

10,000 lichens;

1,250,000 animals, including: 1,190,200 invertebrates: 950,000 insects, 70,000 mollusks, 40,000 crustaceans, 130,200 others; 58,808 vertebrates: 29,300 fish, 5,743 amphibians, 8,240 reptiles, 10,234 birds, (9799 extant as of 2006) 5,416 mammals.

Must have been one big boat (even if you only include land-based species).

By mm

August 23, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Life on Mars?

By steve-o

August 23, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Andy is preaching the word of God? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! LOL!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!

By Pope rednecks - Amerikkka's Al Qaeda I

August 23, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Folks, Andi/e-duh is a High Priestess in the Church of the Redneck Amerikkkan Taliban, Southern (RATS). They used to burn crosses on top of Stone Mountain every year, until they all got the fat virus at one of their initiation ceremonies that Mitt Romney and Rudi Guiliani came to - probably too much ‘freedom’ kissing - and that other thing the French are known for…

Ooh lala!

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Andy/duh/lukodull…my hot lesbian girlfriend and I will be praying for you tonight…that is after I get back from my seminar teaching MEN about 19th C. silver…so go with grace…no, PLEASE GO…with grace…(doxology playing in background)

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

{{Either that or there were dumb as-s liberals back in 0090, hahaha.}}

DUH’s true feelings for Jesus ^^^ right there on the blog page. How very very sad.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

{{Unless you know it off the top of your head, don’t bother looking. I’ve a feeling (get that, huh? A “feeling!!”) it’s not in the record }}

No, Paul, I won’t “bother looking” because it really doesn’t matter to you that Gen. Batiste was fighting hard against the invasion of Iraq to begin with, now does it?

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Raisedanidiot - I think Baptist preachers in general are bad for your health. :-)

mm, I got kicked out of my Baptist Sunday School class when I was about 7 for pointing out things like that. I also didn’t see how some animals could be on the ark without eating one another. And the mosquitoes? Why the hell did Noah not leave those behind - and snakes? Yeah, I know snakes are useful, but they creep the hell out of me. My “teacher” also believed that dinosaur bones were intentionally planted by demons and heathens to test our faith. Even back then I thought she was pretty cooky and wore way too much mascara (reminded me of Tammy Faye - rest her soul).

Steve-o! Hello! I’m always up for a scripture debate, especially one that involves Paul (apostle, not blogger).

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

{{until they all got the fat virus at one of their initiation ceremonies that Mitt Romney and Rudi Guiliani came to - probably too much ‘freedom’ kissing -}}

Pope rednecks— ROFL!

By getalife

August 23, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

“Army Secretary Pete Geren on Thursday ruled out extending troop deployments beyond the current 15 months, saying that longer tours in Iraq put stress on soldiers and their families, and have contributed to an increase in suicides”

Finally, some support for the troops.

Geez.

By Can't Resist

August 23, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Feel Good Video

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

mm, I just read your Noah post again - you dummy, he wouldn’t have had to collect the FISH - DUH!!!! :-)

By AmVet

August 23, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

I see much complaining about Gen. Batiste’s motives (as if ANY of us could know what they really are). And attempts to discount his statements simply because they dare place the blame squarely where it belongs. The supporters of these incompetent men, who orchestrated and micromanaged this clusterf()ck into what we see today, don’t like that, of course, but I have yet to see where anyone has challenged that any of his statements are not factually true.

FACTUALLY TRUE.

And it is ironic to me that he addresses this insane intransigence and blind faith in that message.

But I digress. To the many of these neo/non conservatives, his message, no matter how cogent, no matter how accurate, can always be discredited by either attacking his motives or timing. And so we have politics as usual from the GOP.

But lets play along:

MS. SAWYER: Well, but do you regret now looking back you didn’t speak out? Do you think you should have done it anyway?

GEN. BATISTE: I have no regrets. I worked within the system. Within the military culture, you have a chain of command. You report to people. You can express differences. But at the point of decision, you have two options: you either salute and execute or you get out. And I chose to stay within the system and make it happen.

And sadly, after much observation, I am forced to agree with this post at 2:12: Apparently, neo cons are going to believe what neo cons want to believe, regardless. It’s easier than dealing with the truth that hurts.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

AmVet - Amen!

By Paul

August 23, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Goldie 2:38

Hey, thanks. I’d asked if you were aware of anything I hadn’t come across. Believe me, I’ve looked regarding this topic. Now I hear Gen Batiste was “fighting hard against the invasion to begin with.” I was not aware of that. My impression was not that he was against the war itself, but was against the way it was conducted, specifically, not putting more troops in. Big, huge, major difference.

Anyhow, can you steer me in the direction of a source? Thanks -

mm- 2:22

Try reading that Noah/flood story in a symbolic way. State of earth, water covering, new birth, (baptism, Jesus’s teachings) - the number “40” again (appears throughout the Bible, strong symbolism) - sending out the raven (symbol of doubt) - then the dove (more symbolism, see baptism of Jesus) - it goes on and on. Symbolically.

Duh is for Democrats

I’m interested in how you look at something - no desire to debate it - just a topic I’ve thought about.

The references cited have to do with actions, behaviors. So is it the condemnation against the person, the behavior, or both? I mean, suppose a person says “I am homosexual. I am also a Christian who believes the Bible prohibits sexual contact outside the bonds of marriage. Therefore, I will live a chaste life.” Your view on that person’s status?

Especially (and comparisons are generally unwise) compared to someone who says “I am heterosexual. I am also a Christian. I know what the Bible says. But I (live with my girlfriend/boyfriend) (engage in sexual contact outside the bonds of marriage). Is this person —— what?

Bosch - you really should read “Misquoting Jesus.” Followed by N-GA’s recommendation of “The Messiah of Madison Avenue.”

Thanks -

By N-GA

August 23, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Andy…about your 12:48 post:

drum roll, please…….

duh, duh, duh, DUMBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Paul, I have read “Misquoting Jesus” and “Lost Christianities” by Ehrman. He’s a pretty likable fellow - I’ve seen him on a couple of History Channel type shows. I’ll pick up the other, I remember you and N-GA discussing that.

Have you read God’s Secretaries? I liked it too.

Sorry I didn’t get into the Batiste discussion a bit more. It’s just one of those things where I disagree and don’t have much more to say.

By Shawny

August 23, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Today’s history lesson cartoon sucks. It should focus on the aftermath of Vietnam and Cambodia after we allowed them to fall, and the atrocities and mass slaughter that ensued.

To finish Mike’s professors thought….”not have gotten in in the first place”, or that is what I assume he meant. Well, perhaps getting involved, but doing it bigger and better, a la a WWII Japan whoopin, would have been more effective.

Sorry, but I must now offer up this cartoon that doesn’t suck

By Shame me once

August 23, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Jesus addressed homosexuality this way: If your right hand makes you sin, better to cut it off, than to lose your soul.

He was talkin’ ‘bout the “reach around”, man.

By Midori

August 23, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Paul,

did you watch Andrew Zimmern yet?

If so, what did you think of him?

By Hey Mr Shawny

August 23, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

””“” perhaps getting involved, but doing it bigger and better, a la a WWII Japan whoopin, would have been more effective.”“”

Are you talking little man and fat boy?

Nuke Iraq?

Are you related to Duh someway?

What a shame.

Nukes?

Putz

By Midori

August 23, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

Yo, Shawny!!!

I’ve found an even BETTER one!!

By Paul

August 23, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Bosch 3:17

That’s fine. What I find mildly annoying is when I say something pretty carefully and clearly (like it’s an issue of credibility - there are plenty of other retired generals who oppose the war and/or it’s conduct, they don’t get as much publicity because most of their remarks are policy, not anti-Bush) and it gets spun as I’m a Bushie/Bushite/whatever who marches in lockstep with the Administration because I criticize an administration critic. Even after I posted what I did about my views on cutting the military. Hmmm, I guess the people who want to continue the presence in Iraq for years (fill in your choice of justification) are the new neocons? Just kidding -

By Shame me once

August 23, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

The Catholic Church’s position on sex is so complicated. First, it’s okay to masturbate as long as you’re not looking at porn when you do it, unless you’re masterbating with your wife and the both of you are watching porn as a kind of foreplay, then it’s cool, in fact, encouraged. Love your wife in any way possible, the church suggests. (that’s gotta be wrong but who am I to contradict the church?)

Confused yet? Its gets better, and this is why I’d sell my soul to spend one night in jail with the barbie bandits……

stay tuned for more. Boy, have you lucky people found a blogger to read!!!

There’s just so much material and in the hands of a genius like me, well, I think I better start my own daily blog so that at least you’ll not have to wade through the myspacers who chatroom here to get to me.

By Midori

August 23, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

And Shawny, just in case you didn’t like that one, check out this billboard

HILARIOUS!!

By Hey Ms Midori

August 23, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Fab Toon!

By getalife

August 23, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Senator Reid issued the following earlier today:

“Today’s National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq confirms what most Americans already know: Our troops are mired in an Iraqi civil war and the President’s escalation strategy has failed to produce the political results he promised to our troops and the American people.

Our troops have done everything asked of them and more. Unfortunately Iraq’s leaders have not. And as today’s NIE makes clear, a political solution is extremely unlikely in the near term. Further pursuit of the Administration’s flawed escalation strategy is not in our nation’s best interests.

Every day that we continue to stick to the President’s flawed strategy is a day that America is not as secure as it could be. As the intelligence community reported in another NIE just weeks ago, America’s attention is distracted from Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, which has regenerated its capacity to its pre-9/11 levels. That is why it is so essential that this September, Republicans join with Democrats to change course in Iraq and work to restore our nation’s security.”

Warner wants to start withdrawal. He must be retiring.

Geez.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Midori 3:23

Well, I discovered the time to watch him is not right before dinner! I rather do enjoy the “different is okay” aspect but don’t think it’ll become part of my regular schedule! Reminded me of the time as a child at a national park campfire, ranger was discussing how the inhabitants of 1,000 years ago lived on grubs and such, little kids went “ewwww.” Then he launched into a description of eating fried chicken (sorry, Bosch and raisedanidiot) - from stripping the feathers to cooking it to tearing off the leg and biting through the veins and tendons.

Betcha a lot of kids didn’t eat fried chicken for a month!

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Paul, It’s all rather annoying no matter how you look at it. I guess it doesn’t bother me as much as it does you that these ex-military guys are getting some air play. I’ve always held a lot of respect for Colin Powell, but I seriously don’t know how the man sleeps at night or looks in a mirror.

I saw him on (yes, I know) Larry King not too long ago and he was able to express his views and criticisms in a very respectable way and that’s what I think Batiste is doing with his Op-Ed piece (maybe with a little more “umph” than Powell).

By Duh stands for Democrats

August 23, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

{{{{By Bosch August 23, 2007 2:08 PM You know Duh, I need to apologize to you for something. It is my opinion, that the Bible can be interpreted many ways, and I feel that my last post was hypocritical to say there is nothing about homosexuality in that passage, because if that’s what you believe, that’s fine.}}}}

You do not need to apologize to me, besides which, I think you are really apologizing to yourself.

See, I’m not “interpreting” anything, I’m simply reading the Word as it was written.

And all of the major religions, save for the episcopalians, agree with me as does “mother nature.”

After all, we are talking about the extracurricular usage of “reproductive organs,” hahaha.

By IN THE NEWS

August 23, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

THIS MAKES LOTS OF SENSE

Is John Edwards ‘Karl Rove’s worst nightmare’?

By Midori

August 23, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

It’s ok, Paul — sometimes watching him it’s hard not to pray into the white porcelin bowl :)

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Yuck Paul - I’ve got to run for today - if Buy Danish gets back to proving me wrong, I’ll have to address it tomorrow.

Have a good Thursday evening!

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Well, I saw Duh’s response before I left -

I’m sorry you don’t accept my apology, I really meant it, but, I never have to apologize to myself (except when I drink too much vodka).

As I said, believe what you believe, and so will I. It’s none of my business what you believe. I can only comment, but never tell you that you are wrong.

Believe, me there are plenty of Episcopalians who would totally disagree with me, not sure what you meant by the “mother nature” comment, but I don’t even want to speculate on that.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

getalife

Sen Reid may be a bit disingenuous in his “the President’s escalation strategy has failed to produce the political results he promised” statement.

That was really the purpose of the surge? Okay, this is from Wikipedia but seems well sourced:

According to the “Fact Sheet: The New Way Forward in Iraq ” issued by the White House,[27] “the President’s New Iraq Strategy Is Rooted In Six Fundamental Elements” as follow:

Let the Iraqis lead; Help Iraqis protect the population; Isolate extremists; Create space for political progress; Diversify political and economic efforts; and Situate the strategy in a regional approach.

So’s this:

Operation Law and Order (Arabic: عملية القانون والنظام “‘amaliat al-qaanoon wa an-nazaam), Operation Fardh al-Qanoon or Baghdad Security Plan(BSP), is a joint Coalition-Iraqi security plan conducted throughout Baghdad. Under the Surge plan developed in late 2006, Baghdad is to be divided into nine zones, with Iraqi and American soldiers working side-by-side to clear each sector of Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents and establish Joint Security Stations so that reconstruction programs can begin in safety.

Sen Reid’s getting a bit hazy on his history. Makes me wonder if he were to accurately compare the situation to the objectives (even before Gen Petraeus’s report) it wouldn’t make for as good politics?

Goldie: I didn’t say anything about “good surge” or “bad surge” - just that Sen Reid’s accuracy seems to be lacking. BTW - great crack about Sen Warner -

Bosch

I think it’s great they’re getting air time. I just wish more air time was given to the others - not the same ones with essentially the same message time after time after time.

I think Powell was mislead by our intel agencies as much as any other administration official. Remember, with him it wasn’t a Clinton/Bush thing. He’d served under Pres Clinton and saw the continuum and consistency of reports and conclusions all the way through.

Duh for Democrats - my 3:08 - please?

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

duh - I typically just don’t pay too much attention to your idiocy, but your material today is just too rich…

“See, I’m not “interpreting” anything, I’m simply reading the Word as it was written.

And all of the major religions, save for the episcopalians, agree with me as does “mother nature.”

After all, we are talking about the extracurricular usage of “reproductive organs,” hahaha.”

first of all, your non-interpretation is exactly the problem duh face…you are taking literal what was written some 50 yrs. after Jesus supposedly walked the earth…its kind of like the bush-head invoking Vietnam some 30 yrs. later to serve his own evil agenda…

secondly, the episcopal church is a denomination of a religion…not a religion in of itself.

and thirdly…and I can’t believe you really want us to go there… you think homosexuals are the pioneers of using “reproductive organs” for recreation? You’re just sad, dude.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Please do not link Wiki. It has as much credibility as BO.

Geez.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Unlike China, duh has no lead in his pencil.

Viagra has failed him and he is frustrated.

Geez.

By IN THE NEWS

August 23, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

White House Manual Details How to Deal With Protesters

BUSH DID LEARN SOMETHING FROM VIETMAN

PRESIDENTS CAN LOSE THEIR JOBS IF ENOUGH AMERICAN PROTEST

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Buy stupid @4:10 - for the same reason I’d rather find a reason to eat lunch on Chesher Bridge Rd. when coming through Atlanta than a whitebread Cracker Barrel…you’re so black and white for a dane.

By Dusty

August 23, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish may be busy. Thought I would bring you some information on recent segregated graduation ceremonies.

The title from an article in the “Young America Foundation” was “Leftist Ideas and Segregation Dominate Commencement Exercises”.

This is part of what was written:

‘Brown vs Board of Education’ held the practice of ‘separate but equal’ constitutionally prohibited but schools such as Vanderbilt, U.of California-Berkeley, U of Michigan, U. of Minnesota are conducting “separate” graduation ceremonies for black students.

This is what Buy Danish was mentioning and she is quite correct.

By N-GA

August 23, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

raisedanidiot,

The Colonade on Cheshire Bridge Road is a great place to start. Not very healthy, but oh so memorable.

By getalife

August 23, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Buy French,

Just scream “White Power!” and be done with it.

Geez.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

funny…bosch exit, 3:50…enters Buy Danish, 4:07…BD addressed @4:20…enters alter-ego dust ball…just saying hmmmm

By Cindy

August 23, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

I have thought that Michael Vick could redeem himself if he turned around and came out publically against dog fighting and tried to discourage people from involvement.

That is how I see these Generals: working for redemption. Early in the administration, Rumsfeld made an example of Shinseki. I am sure all the other senior officers took full note of what happens when you publically voice anything counter to the administration. Unlike the civilian workforce, the military is taught to follow orders: it is the very nature of the military: it is the rule of the military. They can actually be imprisoned for not following orders. Those of us who understand the military were indeed shocked by Shinseki’s comments that ran counter to what Bush and Rumsfeld vowed. A good friend who served with Shinseki simply said he should have followed the rules, when the administration sidelined him.

That action itself worked as planned to silence any military general officer who considered speaking the military truth on the Iraqi situation. Now, as civilians, these former Generals are allowed to express the knowledge they were forbidden to express under the bush administration.

Powell was different. As a civilian, he did not have to play the game. What he did was to knowingly and willingly participate in the betrayal of the American public. I feel sorry for him, but I sure don’t trust him.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Boschki,

This may be the best story yet, written by a Cornell graduate, and deserves to be read in full.

Some excerpts -

{{{Last month, a group of conservative students at Cornell University (including yours truly) squared off against radical leftists in a debate on the following question: “Does Cornell University promote racial segregation on campus through its housing policies?” The event was attended by several hundred students, most of whom were extreme left-wing racial minorities who were unable to maintain civility. They repeatedly interrupted speakers, whooped uncontrollably, and viciously attacked a black conservative on the panel.}}}

…{{{Cornell’s race-based dormitories serve as indoctrination centers where “ethic studies” professors—mostly from the Africana department—brainwash minorities into believing that white supremacy is the dominant American ideology. This form of racial politics indoctrinates minorities into believing that being around whites is “unsafe” and that comfort can only be achieved through segregation.}}}

What did I tell you?:

These are the mainstream views in Cornell’s race-based program houses—loathing of Western Culture, bitterness toward America, and hatred of whites.

This was just a teaser - the best is yet to come!

By Harmonius Homie

August 23, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Raised: everyone knows. nobody cares.

not important-every blog has trolls so what?

To point it out like that makes you suspect, because you’re advertising those blogs at those times, so that could mean that you’re the troll, see?

Just blog, and let others blog, I dont read them, I read original blogs, which are rare as clean diapers in an assisted living home on chili night.

Bingo!

By RE

August 23, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Funny thing about segregated graduations. If the University or state mandated them, then it is wrong. But if members of the black student union or latino student union request a seperate ceremony, than it is ok. I did notice there is never a white student union, funny how that works.

I guess it comes down to an individuals right to self segregate over an institutions ability to force a segregation.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

My last post on this particular topic, I promise.

Cornell continued…

{{{Very few students are willing to publicly challenge race-based dormitories for fear of being labeled “racists,” “bigots,” or “hate-mongers.” Even though these students make up the silent majority of Cornell students, they are terrified that huge groups of angry leftists will scream at them for being “ignorant” and “stupid” if they speak up}}}.

{{{There is even greater political pressure on black and Hispanic conservatives to keep quiet. When Cornell student Elliott Reed, a black conservative, dared to deviate from the black nationalist line in a public debate over campus segregation, a black radical pointed at Reed and said, “You see those white [conservative] boys sitting next to you. You think you’re one of them? They don’t see you as equal to them. I’m sure they call you ‘n****’ behind your back.”/As the crowd started whooping and cheering over that slander, Reed responded by saying:”[This crowd is proving exactly what I knew would happen. You people are acting like a bunch of inflamed savages.”}}

The punch line!:

And because he spoke the truth, university officials removed Reed from the event, selectively enforcing a speech code against “personal attacks.”

By Dusty

August 23, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish,

I posted my information before yours came up on my computer.

One of my children is pursuing a PhD in Bio-chemistry and has passed the written qualifiers. The professors are mostly liberal and mostly from other countries originally. But DNA and not politics is the main interest in that department.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

Cindy

That’s a popular view, but there is more to the story.

[[From factcheck.org

Forced to Retire?

Kerry claimed, as he had in the first debate, that the Army’s Chief of Staff, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, was forced to retire for saying before the invasion of Iraq that many more troops were needed than the administration was planning to send.

It is true that Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Feb. 25, 2003 that “something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers” would be required for an occupation of Iraq. It is also true that Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz called that estimate “wildly off the mark” in testimony to the House Budget Committee on Feb. 27, 2003. And it is true that the general retired several months later on June 11, 2003.

But the administration didn’t force General Shinseki to retire. In fact, The Washington Times reported Shinseki’s plans to retire nearly a year before his Feb. 25, 2003 testimony. The Times article was published April 19, 2002:

Washington Times: He (Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) and Army Secretary Thomas White have settled on Gen. John M. Keane, Army deputy chief of staff, to succeed the current chief, Gen. Eric Shinseki. Gen. Shinseki does not retire for more than a year. Sources offer differing reasons for the early selection.

(Update, Oct. 11: We originally quoted in this space an Oct. 9 Washington Post story saying Gen. Shinseki’s pending retirement was leaked “in revenge” for his position on troop levels. Based on that, we said there was “some truth” to Kerry’s statement. However, the Post withdrew their report in a correction published Oct. 11).]]

The issue discussed earlier was not “following orders” - it was the actions or lack thereof (with some speculation) on the robust debate before the order’s given. And - not ‘if’ we should invade, but ‘how’ - not ‘if the strategy’s working’ but ‘just keep pluggin’ along.”

Their knowledge on what would happen appears to be sadly lacking. Probably explains why they were silent -

By GodHatesTrash

August 23, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

{{{Very few students are willing to publicly challenge race-based dormitories for fear of being labeled “racists,” “bigots,” or “hate-mongers.” Even though these students make up the silent majority of Cornell students, they are terrified that huge groups of angry leftists will scream at them for being “ignorant” and “stupid” if they speak up}}}.

Here we see Bi Danish aptly describing the problem with modern conservatives - they are spineless, gutless, chickenhawk cowards, too frail and fey to speak their mindlessness.

Trash.

By Duh stands for Democrat

August 23, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

{{{{By raisedanidiot August 23, 2007 3:54 PM first of all, your non-interpretation is exactly the problem duh face…you are taking literal what was written some 50 yrs. after Jesus supposedly walked the earth}}}}

Feeling a little guilty, are we?

What else could this possibly mean, oh great “theologian,” “scholar” of the Scriptures, maybe YOU should stop interpretating and just read:

“and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

BD - from your post:

On January 27, 2002, Africana Studies Professor James Turner hosted an event entitled “The Aftermath of Sept.11th…Patriotism or Puppet Show?” Upon my arrival, I was greeted with, “Hey, it’s that n**** from the [Cornell] Review. Look at that f*ing snake!” At this public forum, a student offered his view on 9/11, which went completely unchallenged by the faculty present:

“Who did it? It could have been four Italians. How do we even know who was on the plane? Maybe the Taliban is not guilty. Maybe Afghanistan is not guilty. Who even said that Osama bin Laden did it? How do we know? It could have been a white guy from New Jersey.”

Other students compared the Federal Bureau of Investigation with the Ku Klux Klan and argued that September 11 was merely “chickens coming home to roost.” One black girl even expressed disappointment in her mother’s renewed patriotism:

“I went home for fall break and my mom gave me a flag. I was very disappointed. Until I can walk out of my house with all of the rights of an American, I cannot be proud of that flag and what they say it stands for.”

THINK MAYBE A LITTLE CIVIL UNREST? Guess that’s the liberals fault, huh? You’re such a pitiful moron.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Danish-DUH and Dusty-DUH are obviously sharing with everyone here what they learn at their Aryan Nation meetings… that Aryan brainwashing is really doing its job on you both, huh?

The closing statement from Danish-DUH’s link to the put-upon outraged “Cornell” student states their agenda so succinctly: “Along with racial quotas and ethnic studies programs, race-based residence halls promote racial tension and inflame anti-Western sentiment. There is only one solution to this horrific racial problem on Cornell’s campus—these dormitories must be torn down brick-by-brick.”

No, we can’t let any minority groups start co-habitating or celebrating amongst themselves, is that it?

By Split Infinitive

August 23, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Watermelon and blueberries are really good this summer.

I’ve been thinking about those barbie bandits….whew.

I’m only just now getting over Paris in Prison and now this with the barbie dolls.

Viva Viagra!

By AmVet

August 23, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

First Hagel, now Warner. Now all we need is McCain (I know, I know, it ain’t ever gonna happen) and we would have the entirety of the US Senators from the GOP with combat experience saying what many of us have known for a long time - Iraq is never going to be remotely close to what this administration foolishly hoped for.

I thought his father did the darn near impossible by losing the White House to Clinton.

And only time will tell if I’m right about this, but I get the feeling that W may have lost the White House for the GOP for a long time.

And I realize that the Constitution does not provide for impeachment due to reckless and deadly incompetence, but if ever in the history of the nation, anyone deserved it, it would be our current worst ever commander-in-chief.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

duh @4:52 - you think that makes me mad, duh? Dude, I cut my teeth on morons like you…see you in hell my friend!

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

Paul @ 4:45 — that was pretty pathetic. Right there in the Wash.Times transcript it states obliquely: “Gen. Shinseki does not retire for more than a year. Sources offer differing reasons for the early selection.”

“Sources?” Still reading Murdoch’s “news” sources, are ya Paul??? I guess it’s true what is said about old dogs…

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Boshki,

You questioned my assertion that Shakespeare has been politicized, and the Great Books are disappearing from the curriculum of college campuses? (note I never said they were “banned” and yes, I have indeed read a fair amount of Shakespeare):

{{{The fact that the great works of literature in English are vanishing from college curricula, or else being distorted beyond recognition. English professors are teaching—no joke—comic books, foreign films, Marx, Freud, “deconstruction,” popular music, even porn, instead of the classics. This stuff isn’t in just a few oddball classes. It’s course after course, in colleges from the Ivy League to your local state school.}}}

Shakespeare, our greatest playwright and poet, is interesting to them chiefly as an example of patriarchal oppression, or of imperialism, or of whatever other supposed crime of Western civilization that a particular professor is most indignant about. There’s a fascinating (and horrifying) article I also quote from in the book, by Robert Lublin, a theater professor. Lublin describes the techniques he used, when teaching A Midsummer Night’s Dream, to convince his students that Shakespeare is responsible for the subordination of women and the creation of our “heteronormative” culture.

{{{The case of Shakespeare shows how our postmodernist professors find not just Western civilization but even basic features of human nature entirely alien. For 300-plus years, Shakespeare was valued for his universally interesting insights into human nature and the human condition. Now postmodernist English professors have an ugly term they use to describe anyone who believes there are any universally valid truths about human nature.

Any reader who thinks Shakespeare’s plays can teach you universal truths about the human condition is guilty of “essentialism.” As always for the postmodernists, the great literature in English, like all of Western culture, boils down to a bunch of ugly “isms” and “phobias” that we need to break free of..}}}

Yep, this rubbish is what counts for “Higher education” these days, and Bosch thinks I’m “jealous” and “bitter” that I’m not a part of it?

Ha Ha Ha.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Goldielocks,

You’ll note that I did not quote that particular paragraph because I did not agree with it, but golly didn’t the Moonbats squawk squawk squawk that Abu Ghraib needed to be torn down brick by brick?

It’s a darn shame that you can’t read something and find some truth there without having to toss the whole thing aside because you disagree with one paragraph.

It doesn’t surprise me in the least though as your side demands absolute fealty to the P.C. agenda, and it’s all or nothing with you.

That’s why you think that we hang on to Bush’s every word and agree with everything he says, when the truth is very different.

Want some facts to back that up? His immigration proposals went down in flames.

By Goldie

August 23, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Paul— you’re so adamant about the “Generals” being accountable for the disaster in Iraq, when exactly has Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, et al, expressed their “accountability” for this train-wreck? Our military generals follow the orders from their Commander-in-Chief… many gave their opinions about what would be needed — hell, even Colin Powell stated that “you break it, you own it!”, and who was it exactly that listened to him in this administration?

Hell, even your guy Cheney was prescient enough 12 years ago to state that invading Iraq would be a quagmire, and he didn’t even follow his own advice! But instead Cheney tries to sell his war with the ole “we’ll be greeted as liberators!”

Quite a bad sales-job the American people got from Bush & Cheney, huh? Or, was that a bad bl@w-job we got???

By Paul

August 23, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Goldie

One more time: Shinseki’s retirement is announced. A year later (get that? later!) he gives his “we’re not sending enough troops” testimony. A couple months later his predetermined retirement date comes up and he retires.

So he wasn’t fired for saying we needed more troops. I don’t see how to make it any clearer. His tenure was terminated early, for a variety of reasons. But it wasn’t because he said “we need more troops.”

BTW - after he made the comment he was attacked by DepSecDef Wolfowitz. His military assistant? General Batiste. Hello? That doesn’t send of any alarms? That’s B-a-t-i-s-t-e. The integrity guy who saw the Army Chief of Staff publicly humiliated (I don’t believe Rumsfeld attended his retirement ceremony) yet waited years for his epiphany?

This is what I don’t get. Gen Batiste criticizes Pres Bush, Rumsfeld, and the administration. Bush-haters, Iraq-haters latch onto him and celebrate him. But he was in on the planning from the beginning. He advocated more troops when Dems were calling for withdrawal. His calls were for doing exactly the things most Dems oppose. Yet they embrace him because they hear “Bush is an idiot.”

This is what I mean by looking at facts - not analyzing by emotions. It doesn’t mean I don’t have strong feelings about the people, policies and procedures. But it means I don’t go “rah, rah” because I hear something that seems to be what I want to hear.

By GodHatesTrash

August 23, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Hey Bi Danish - that “silent majority” at Cornell U - how many of them are in Iraq?

Bet you can count them on both hands.

Chickensh-it chickenhawk trash.

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

stillanidiot,

“Civil unrest” is not the same thing as shouting down the opposition so they can’t be heard, or making ludicrous statements without being challenged while throwing the black guy who dissented from the radical kooks OUT.

Sheesh.

Later…

By Paul

August 23, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Goldie 5:20

There you go again - setting up a situation and asking me to defend it. Why should I? You’re assuming (you do a lot of that) things I haven’t discussed - at least for a while. So Perle, Wolfowitz, etc (you should be able to recall my contempt for them) haven’t apologized? No kidding. But does that excuse other screw-ups from not? No. It’s like the religious guys/sex scandals you like to deride. These guys have set themselves up as critics, yet they were part of the group telling us what was good and right and true - like those ministers. Then it all falls apart.

You like to tell me who “my guys” are a lot. I think you filched the three-column fill in the words page from someone -

Let’s try it again - many of the generals you cite had the same objectives as Cheny & co - they just wanted to get there a bit differently (the same objectives “your side” has been saying for some time is unattainable).

It’s kinda like when I said many Dems were going to get hosed by Hillary and the other candidates - you’re expecting “out” of Iraq, they’re planning on how to stay. Seems to generate a pretty harsh attack.

So, can you please put the emotions aside and provide me with a few factual non-talkingpoints? Batiste and company don’t like Bush. Got it. They have some good reasons. Some is specious PR. It’s the rest I don’t get -

By getalife

August 23, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

“Gergen smacks Bush on his speech: “Mr. President, how did you ever get us involved in another quagmire?”

I good question for w.

Of course, he would blame somebody else like Malarki.

It is the path of cowards.

Geez.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

buy duh @4:54 - depends on how “unrested” you are…tell your daddy to keep it up, we’ll have a full-scale revolution on our hands…it always starts on the campus…they’re p** cause its their future thats getting fcked. Power to the People! Smoke em if ya got em, people…I’m outa here.

By raisedanidiot

August 23, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

Caught this just in as I was going out…

“WASHINGTON (AP) - The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, U.S. spy agencies conclude in a new assessment of the country’s political and military fortunes.

Despite some uneven improvements, the analysts concluded that the level of overall violence is high, Iraq’s sectarian groups remain unreconciled, and al-Qaida in Iraq is still able to conduct highly visible attacks.

“Iraqi political leaders remain unable to govern effectively,” the 10-page document, a declassified summary of a more detailed National Intelligence Estimate, concludes. A copy was obtained by The Associated Press in advance of its release Thursday.

The report represents the collaborative judgments of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and the intelligence organization of each military service. It comes at a time of renewed tensions between Washington and Baghdad, and as the Bush administration prepares a mid-September report on how its troop buildup in Iraq is working.”

By AmVet

August 23, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Mr. Luckovich, you are correct. It appears that the Bush administration has finally come full circle. Repeat the mistakes of history but tell the nation you aren’t.

So now we have the latest in a seemingly endless series of missteps and miscalculations, and the President finally brings out the heretofore forbidden word - Viet Nam.

And incredibly, inexplicably, unbelievably he tries to use it as an example of how NOT to leave a country that we tried unsuccessfully to occupy and that somehow he is qualified to prosecute an occupation!!???!!!

His attempts to use that debacle to frame the context of this debacle would be utterly laughable if the whole damn thing wasn’t so deadly.

Who the hell is advising this man? And what in the name of (your favorite deity here) is he doing listening to them?

By getalife

August 23, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

I will go out on a limb here and say,

Reid was right!

Get out!

Move on !

Enough with the regime changes and warmongering on Iran.

Govern and fix our country.

Geez.

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century~!

August 23, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

-=-

Why Dubya Bush is very much like Bart Simpson:

-=-

“I Know You Are, but What am I?”

“I didn’t do it, nobody saw me do it, there’s no way you can prove anything!”

“Christmas is a time when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ.”

“No, he’s pretty dumb. He’s in all the same special classes I am.”

“There’s no such thing as a soul. It’s just something they made up to scare kids, like the boogeyman or Michael Jackson.”

“I don’t know! I don’t know why I did it, I don’t know why I enjoyed it, and I don’t know why I’ll do it again!”

“Okay, I don’t want Homer to come on the trip with me, so I’ll just ask him and he’ll say no. Then, it’ll be his fault.”

“Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you’ve just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you’d like to learn more about war, there’s lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures. “

-=-

Cheers’

By GodHatesTrash

August 23, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Am Vet, lots of red state losers still believe in the righteousness of the Lost Cause, for gawd’s sake. They are also firmly convinced we could have “won” the Vietnam War.

The same kkkool-aid kkkrew thinks we can “win” in Iraq.

Lost cause loser trash.

By Paul

August 23, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

AmVet 6:18

Is this what happens when Rove leaves?

:)

getalife 6:20

Your choices have dwindled to Kucinich and Richardson. Maaaaybe Obama. Sorry ‘bout that -

By rushncap

August 23, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Muffin, your diatribes against education notwithstanding (and yes, of course you’re jealous that you never were educated, there is no other explanation), Shakespeare is not being torn down. I have taken a Shakespeare class in Berkeley, of all places, and it was full to the gills, 250+ people, and we read over a dozen of his works. He was discussed, analyzed, criticized and admired. You and your ilk simply get your panties in a wad that universities don’t teach Shakespeare alone, that they think that maybe the past few hundred years have contained a nugget or two of art worth telling people about. This is not about replacing Shakespeare. This is about augmenting him. The same semester as I took Shakespeare I desperately tried to take a class on Tupac Shakur, but it was clear across campus and I could not make it. But guess what, Muff — I guarantee you that I, a product of this educational system, know a hell of a lot more about both Shakespeare AND Tupac than you.

By AmVet

August 23, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

As soon as I wrote that, I wondered about the missing Karl Rove factor in all of this Viet Nam talk!

I can just picture it now!

GWB: (Doing his best Richard Nixon scowl) You know, karl, we’ve just got to turn this Viet Nam talk around and shove it in their damn liberal faces.

KV: NO Mr. President! NOOOOO! That’s the last thing you want to bring up now!

By Paul

August 23, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

rushncap

Glad you enjoyed the class. And wanted to take something from another spectrum. If you’ll indulge me - I had an extended business trip during one of my sons’ senior year. He sent me an update - chatted a bit, then told me he had to sign off because he had a test in English class - Shakespeare - I believe it was “As you like it” - said he thought he’d do okay because “I read it last summer for fun.”

I’m still not sure of his gene pool -

g’night -

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

By all means, join the posting party! You may also enjoy this article by Heather McDonald about diversity at Harvard. It’s not new, but it is absolutely germane to the conversation.

RE,

In response to your earlier observation that there are no white groups on campus, just what do you think would happen if it was tried?

And regarding Ward Churchill, he was fired for numerous reasons, including plagiarism, but not one of the reasons had a thing to do with his “free speech rights”.

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

Once again, Danish has taken highly questionable source of complete and presposterous nonsense and used it to classify and speak for the entire higher educational system of this country.

Buy Danish, if you choose to believe that garbage, then go ahead, that’s your problem, but the rest of us, who actually went to college, know better, and can recognize bitter biases when we see them.

You keep up the good research dear. Your posts and resources speak for themselves.

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century~!

August 23, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

More funnys—

Hee—

Ha—

By Buy Danish

August 23, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Oh no! Rushncap knows more about Tupac than I do!

How will I ever live this down?

Munchkin,

250 gills studied Shakespeare? You must have been a fish out of water.

For someone who thinks he is educated (beyond your knowledge of physics which I’ll give you) you are a remarkably unsophisticated “thinker”, a p** poor “writer”, and an insufferable snob*.

I’d continue this conversation, but I have to run.

*As in “Sine Nobilitas”

By Bosch

August 23, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this

Danish, If you choose not to be a part of the higher educational system in this country, then by all means, don’t. Take it even a step further, don’t encourage your children (or grandchildren) to go to college either - see how far they get in the world.

But since you have no idea about the higher educational system in this country and have apparently never been an active participant, please do not pretend to be an expert.

But I still stand by my statement earlier that our higher educational system is what keeps us from being a Third World country, but I’m not going to tell you what to believe, so again, if you want to keep going with that, that is certainly your choice.

By rushncap

August 23, 2007 7:18 PM | Link to this

Muff — obviously you don’t know the expression “filled to the gills”. Or much of anything else. Muffin, how the hell do you know my “sophistication” level? You probably think Larry the Cable Guy is sophisticated. Oh, and by the way, according to my TA in the aforementioned Shakespeare class, I was one of the 2 best writers in it. Did you even graduate high school?

By Dianna

August 29, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Today’s cartoon: One of your best! Calls it what it is so succinctly! Good job!

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