Mike Luckovich

By Lickodull

July 2, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this

Well, I spent the week with the Sailor - he was on shore leave, so we went to Tijuana with a bunch of his buddies - let me tell you, this girl was in Heaven - sharing a big van with ten sweaty sailors while we rode around the Baja - girlfriend!

But I’m back now.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

By Mrs. Godzilla

July 2, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

I know I’m going for the easy one here but he still has some power to pass

See “Curiosities” - This was an interesting little factoid - “Mel Brooks named his fictional governor (played by himself) William J. LePetomaine in the Western spoof film Blazing Saddles.”

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 297

By the stopper

July 2, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

That can’t be our Luckodull.

It’s posted at 8:12. Poor Luckodull always posts at 8:01.

I wonder what happened to the guy. Did they finally cut him off? Did the Right Wing Noise Machine’s third-tier think tank that financed Luckodull’s daily rants finally say that the return on investment was unacceptable?

Whatever the reason, it’s nice to have a new week started without the Stupidest Troll on the Internets.

And Mike’s ‘toon is brilliant, per usual.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Another levee broke in Kansas flooding an oil refinery.

A major mess but the media is wall to wall coverage playing the fear card in England.

Geez.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

Since there were some typists on here who were talking about how unpopular Congress is. Well, apparently 25% public support is [still better than what a Republican Congress would get]. Not to mention that only 36% think favorably of the Republican party. That’s just…. ouch!

By Midori

July 2, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know what really happened to Andy?

Inquiring minds, you know……..

I’m hoping someone has forced him to take a major time out from his spamming and grenade throwing on this blog.

you know he didn’t go “voluntarily”…..

By Midori

July 2, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

Over sodas and sparkling water, he asks his questions: What is the nature of good and evil in the post-Sept. 11 world? What lessons does history have for a president facing the turmoil I’m facing? How will history judge what we’ve done? Why does the rest of the world seem to hate America? Or is it just me they hate?

These are the questions of a president who has endured the most drastic political collapse in a generation. Not generally known for intellectual curiosity, Bush is seeking out those who are, engaging in a philosophical exploration of the currents of history that have swept up his administration. For all the setbacks, he remains unflinching, rarely expressing doubt in his direction, yet trying to understand how he got off course.

The polls reflect the events of Bush’s second term, an unyielding sequence of bad news. Social Security. Hurricane Katrina. Harriet E. Miers. Dubai Ports World. Vice President Cheney’s hunting accident. Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay and Mark Foley. The midterm elections. I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Alberto R. Gonzales and Paul D. Wolfowitz. Immigration. And overshadowing it all, the Iraq war, now longer than the U.S. fight in World War II.

By the stopper

July 2, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

About the ‘toon—

Bush’s covered-styrofoam-cup-with-straw, of the sort you receive from your waitress for the kiddie(s) when you go to a nice sit-down restaurant with tablecloths?

Nice touch, Mike.

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

I CONTACTED THE AJC WHEN MY NAME WAS LINKED TO PORN SITES A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO - I GOT THE IMPRESSION THEY WERE NOT AT ALL HAPPY WITH THAT AND WERE GOING TO DO DOMETHING ABOUT IT.

HE, STILL APPEARED HERE FOR A WEEK OR SO AFTERWARDS…..

I HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE PAPERS FOR A HEADLINE LIKE “BIZARRE BLOGGER PULLED FROM HOUSE FULL OF CATS”

By Midori

July 2, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

In the news:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :)

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

I am confident that British and Scottish authorities will fully investigate the yuppie terrorists. I am less confident that we will devote our energies to the task of actually killing or capturing Bin Laden. Our leaders and a pliant media seem content to talk endlessly about non-events and turn away from the bodies being piled up in Iraq. And for those of you who soiled yourselves over the events in the U.K. it is time for a nappy change.

By @@

July 2, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Mashed or fried, those potatoes were hot ml. The American people have spoken and were heard loud and clear by their representatives.

I really had no problem with the immigration bill. I simply had no confidence in the government to enforce the new laws since they had failed to enforce the laws that had been in existence for 25+ years

Michael Chertoff had this to say regarding the bill’s defeat:

(((The homeland security chief on Sunday scolded the Senate for failing to pass an immigration bill and said it will be difficult for the government to crack down on illegal workers.)))

(((“We’re going to continue to enforce the law. It’s going to be tough,” Michael Chertoff said.)))

It’s going to be difficult and tough to “continue” to enforce the law?

Toss out the word continue; “difficult” and “tough” IS what we pay you for.

The government continually asks for gravy on potatoes that never showed up at their produce stand.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Great MSNBC link, Midori. Thank you. Loved the article. Love the end too: Bush calling someone’s wife, saying “I’m ok, don’t worry about me”. We’re not, George, we’re not. We’re worried about the rest of the country.

Oh, and here is the link I forgot from my previous post. Sometimes I can be too forgetful.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

rushncap

Rather seems to me it’s like Ford and GM - each pointing fingers at each other, saying “yeah, well, you caved and saddled us with these legacy healthcare costs” and “you went to SUVs and trucks way more than we did and couldn’t change to new styles fast enough” and “you lost more customers to the Japanese than we did.”

All the while Americans buy more Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, etc etc. and couldn’t care less about the squabbling and finger pointing.

Just because each party can point to a few things the other does worse doesn’t obscure the fact: both parties’ leaders and performance are pathetic. And yet they’ll still pull out all the stops to preserve the two-party system and shut out any challengers.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Chertoff should not be lobbying for amnesty.

He should be trying to secure the border and the Justice Dept. should be enforcing the law.

Its good to see w is finally worried about his legacy.

All he has left is the failed Iraq occupation.

If he was a man, he would man up and resign like Nixon for his country.

His biggest failure is OBL, the taliban and al Qaeda are still out there planning and killing Americans.

No closure for the 9/11 victims.

By Road Scholar

July 2, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Speaking of immigration, all the Republicans have done is to pander to business by giving subsidies or tax breaks. While the government secures the borders (one of these days), why can’t businesses be held accountable for hiring illegal workers. Take away their tax breaks, subsidies, and fine them to attempt to do the right and legal thing. Enforce the laws. Also if a large corporation gets a subsidy, ensure the spending by their management does not exceed the federal per diem for meals and lodging. They are excessively “perking” themselves while the workers do without adequate raises and salaries. Business is running and ruining our system of government.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

I found Andy

Geez.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Paul — few things irk me more than the standard “Dems and Reps are conspiring to keep the 2 party system going” argument. It’s stale, and, in my opinion, reveals severe misunderstanding of our Constitution. It’s a winner-take-all system. Under that system the political parties will always collapse down to the ground state of a two-party system (sorry, physics lingo somehow seemed apt here). We do not have proportional representation. Thus any 3rd party with an electorally significant following will get swallowed up by one of the 2 major parties, incorporating the philosophy of the 3rd party into their own plank. Yes, it seems like our 2-party system is corrupt and conspiring to keep new ideas out. And it’s true, to a degree. But conspiracy or not, unless the Constitution is amended in the most serious way since the Bill of Rights we will always have a two-party system.

By Midori

July 2, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Getalife

I’ve found him, too

Rushncap,

the main gist of that story is how calm and relaxed he is — which is an altogether other issue.

How can someone who has caused so much death, destruction and chaos remain “calm and relaxed”?

By Midori

July 2, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Yemen Bombing. Breaking News.

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Midori’s post raises in my mind the contrast between WWII and bushie’s war. Look at what the U.S. and its allies accomplished in the same amount of time as the US has accomplished what? in Iraq. With all of our high tech gadgets and new fangled go to war machines we continue to spin wheels in Iraq. So, all the good progress in Iraq? If this is the kind of progress we made in WWII we would all be saluting and clicking our heels to the current Nazi leader. The abuse and misuse of the entire Iraqi fiasco is shameful.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

rushncap

Sounds like I tapped into a bit of emotional history there. I don’t believe I said “conspiring” - which means, in my mind, working together to achieve an end. I view it more as both working to consolidate and expand their own power (look at DeLay influencing the out-of-census apportionment in Texas to give Reps an edge in the next Congressional election).

I wasn’t aware the Constitution somehow implied the natural state of affairs would always be a two-party system. Parties have changed, evolved over the years. It’s evolved to two parties, doesn’t mean it has to be that way. I really don’t think Americans are somehow more united into “two main areas of political thought” than are people of other countries, where a diversity of views are recognized, encouraged and supported through various political parties.

Sure, the electoral college is winner take all for the Presidency. Doesn’t mean only two parties can take part. I was thinking more along the lines of the requirements put up for any other entity to even be listed on the ballot - can be pretty arbitrary and self protecting.

As far as elections for Congress/Senate - sure the winner is whoever gets the most votes. That too is “winner take all.” But again, those with the power don’t want to share. There are a lot of hoops to jump through to even get recognized on the ballot - and they vary a lot all around the country, with Feds having their own requirements.

Nader would get, and has gotten, more votes than a Ron Paul or a Gravel ever would. Of course he wouldn’t be in a Party debate - but you won’t find him invited to a candidate debate, either.

So I don’t see it as anything inherent in the Constitution that saddles us with Democrats and Republicans. There are plenty of ways to keep channeling discontent back and forth “You don’t like what Reps did? Vote Dem!” rather than present an alternative - be it Green Party, Libertarian Party or Birthday Party. The current campaign financing system, for all the “issues,” serves the two major parties. That’s another reason why we won’t see full Federal funding of elections - it not only takes away the power of the special interests, it dilutes the power of the two Parties.

Money and Power. There it is. BOHICA -

By Paul

July 2, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Cindy

You really want the WWII model in Iraq? Firebomb the major cities? Meet resistance from a town - call in artillery and bombard it? Disregard civilian casualties? I don’t think most people today would call for that - especially with live tv feeds -

The main point is this is not a WWII style war. At least in Japan you had a strong, homogeneous society, same basically in Germany. At the signing of the treaties you didn’t have German Poles, German Slavs, etc springing up to settle centuries-old tribal scores and fight against the occupiers. They wanted to rebuild their country. They didn’t find a religious, ideological joy in slaughtering their countrymen.

By Goldie

July 2, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Midori @ 9:53— that MSNBC column brings to my mind a song by John Lennon:

“Instant Karma’s gonna get you, Gonna hit you right in the face!”

The problem is that Bush’s Karma is taking America down with him — we’ll need a decade or more of work from the Dems to fix all the problems he has caused.

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Good afternoon all - I hope everyone had a great weekend. I was away for the weekend and saw some really great cartoons in the local paper, I’ll try to find them later. One cartoonist drew Bush better than Luckovich!

Over and out —

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Paul, Where did I say I wanted a WWII war in this day and time? That is just foolishness. The US used everything it had available in WWII; expanded, adapted and created. The U.S. has had well over 50 years to develop new tactics, techniques, equipment, logisitics and the technology advancements since that time have been phenamenol. Different war; different tactics. It is 1.) The ill planned invasion 2.) The stupid leadership 3.) The poor use of resources. We never should have invaded in the first place. Since the bush did make the choice he should have been prepared to go to war. The exact reason war is a last alternative; when you fight a war, you fight a war, not tapdance. And after 4 years progress is just now being made? Regardless of the ultimate outcome in Iraq, bush will not be viewed favorable because he did such a poor job of the entire invasion. The man has no leadership qualities and is stupid beyond comprehension. I am very thankful he wasn’t in the White House during WWII because that is the type of non-leadership that would have gotten us defeated.

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Dick Cheney’s Ten Commandments of Secrecy

By AmVet

July 2, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Goldie. It was forty (not twenty!) years ago today. Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play!

Did you see the Larry King special on Cirque’s Love? He interviewed Paul and Ringo as well as Yoko and Olivia Harrison. And the normally staid Larry started getting a bit choked up. They really did change the world and after hearing clips of all of those amazing songs again, it was easy for anyone who loved their music to get a tad choked up!

Here’s a link with some really great stuff about that era. Note that Time magazine awarded its Person of the Year cover to America’s youth!

I hope beyond hope that soon another generation of young people will become the true vanguards of progress in this country.

http://entertainment.msn.com/music/features/summeroflove

By getalife

July 2, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Willard, the dog torturer

Geez.

By AmVet

July 2, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

getalife, Mitt’s “family travels” remind me of those scenes in National Lampoon’s Vacation where Clark Griswald accidentally drags the dog behind the car for several miles. Or when he secures the dead grandma to he top of the station wagon!

But thankfully Clark wasn’t campaigning for the most powerful position on the planet!

By The Watcher

July 2, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Oh No! The Romney Scandal

Doggie-Gate

By getalife

July 2, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

AmVet,

Yes, that is a funny movie.

They have the hair cut and we have the dog torturer.

Lazy Fred’s family are all lobbyists like him, Rudy put a command center in the tower that was already bombed, then they have McLiar.

The gop candidates are pathetic.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Cindy

Well, when you began with “Look at what the U.S. and its allies accomplished in the same amount of time as the US has accomplished what? in Iraq. With all of our high tech gadgets and new fangled go to war machines we continue to spin wheels in Iraq.” a lot of folks would not understand why this is as it is. Plenty of people here make the “WWII took this long and Iraq takes this long” comment. Apply the tactics of WWII and we sure wouldn’t have many people left there.

Yes, we’ve developed new weapons since WWII but we haven’t done all that well developing new tactics and techniques, until forced to by the situation. Those anti-Bush/Rumsfeld generals? One a program manager of the Crusader howitzer Rumsfield cancelled? Here’s a guy criticizing a SecDef who criticized Army leadership for not doing much since the end of the Cold War (a better starting point than WWII, as a 1980s war in Europe would have had many WWII similarities) to improve tactics, techniques and weapons - while he championed a Cold War weapons system. See the problem?

I’ve said before - Rumsfeld wanted to skip the weapons we’re now spending billions on - most of which have no relevance to Iraq or antiterrorism (and people wonder why we didn’t have enough personal body armor, urban warfare vehicles, etc).

Heck, five years later and the US still doesn’t even know what to call our enemy.

Don’t forget who was advising Bush - and I don’t mean the neocon coterie of Wolfowitz, Perle, etc. The military analysis, integration with State and CIA (the military would rather do it’s own intel) was pathetic. Navy had no stake. AF did their usual. Army generals screwed up royally.

Point is, we’d never fought a war like that. Didn’t see a lot of the developments coming (now people will jump in with their Google searches to link to one analyst, think tank or person at a war college who published an article - I’m speaking institutionally, here).

You finished with WWII. You really should take a look at our military establishment at the start of WWII. Intel, too. Remember Peal Harbor? Loss of Pacific islands? How long it took to produce planes and guns, train pilots and people, get it to the theater? Remember the first defeats in Africa? The tens of thousands lost in training accidents? It wasn’t rosy, then. But

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.) told Vice President Dick Cheney to “resign or face impeachment” Thursday night as three more House Democrats lent their support to a plan to impeach the vice president.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Cindy

con’t : It wasn’t rosy, then either. But it was standard, nation state conventional warfare, with oceans separating us and we had time to outproduce our enemies.

By IN THE NEWS

July 2, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

BREAKING

“”WASHINGTON (CNN) — A federal appeals court Monday rejected former White House aide Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s request to remain free on appeal after his March conviction on federal charges stemming from the leak of a CIA agent’s identity.”“

By Gonna Love 08

July 2, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

In the News,

That top 10 Conservative Idiots list is hillarious. I like it…

By @@

July 2, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

I’m so glad to see AmVet on the board today. The other day, out of the blue, you attacked me. Something about me not caring about anyone other than myself. I was somewhat surprised since I don’t recall any interaction with you on here.

Anyhoo, something you posted piqued my curiosity. You referenced Todd Rundgren and Ralph Nader on June 28th and 29th.

We used to have a poster back in March of 2006. He was one mean SOAB. JJG was the name he used at that time. He got caught namejacking Buy Danish and was so ashamed of himself that he made a hasty retreat here:

(((By JJG March 18, 2006 04:08 PM)))

(((You know what? That post of 3:08 was brilliant; I am embarrassed to be here! All this juvenile name-calling, back and forth is not for me and unfortunately, I’ve allowed myself to get sucked down to the lowest common denominators. I thought I might contribute something useful, but my search for another forum will continue.))) and then there was this…

(((And, yes, there are many ways to serve this nation without enlisting in the military. Just don’t be in too big of a hurry to get other people’s kids killed, OK?)))

I can’t remember if it was Huge or N-GA who frequently posted ^^^ that about other people’s kids.

JJG signed off with this:

(((This country will again truly thrive, but only when these two brands of self-serving extremist political parties are relegated to the scrap heap of democracy. As much as they are going to hate it, there will be more Naders, who fight valiantly, against incredible odds (including against the once proud Democratic party), to expose the unbridled and unashamed sleaze and corruption of our current systems and institutions, and yes our ordinary citizens.)))

(((To quote one of my musical heroes, Todd Rundgren:))) The lyrics went on and on.

Note the Nader and Rundgren reference.

Coincidence? Maybe, but more likely….

JJG never left, just changed his name like so many leftists before him. They continue the silly game to this day.

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

Yep, Paul. As I said; I am very thankful bush wasn’t in office during WWII. The US made a whole lot of changes in what they were doing between 1941 and 1945. Bush is just “staying the course”. In the 40’s the US actually designed, built, fielded ships, tanks and developed systems never before used. In the last 4 bushie years the US hasn’t made near the improvements. He has been in the driver’s seat this whole war; there are NO acceptable excuses. Absolutely pathetic.

By The Watcher

July 2, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

””“JJG never left, just changed his name like so many leftists before him. They continue the silly game to this day.”“”

Kinda like the late LuckoDull, eh?

By Midori

July 2, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

{{{{{JJG never left, just changed his name like so many leftists before him. They continue the silly game to this day.}}}}}

quoth the Lizard Queen.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Ah memories.

“Soda Pants” and “Mad as Zell” were two of the craziest wingnuts on this blog.

Seems like all the wingnuts have cut and run from this blog.

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with changing your name? Is it a blog crime or a neocon crime?

By Midori

July 2, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

sshhhhhhhhh!!!

they might come back.

as it is, @@ and Dusty, for some reason, keep popping in trying to share their kool aid flavor of the week.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Midori,

I think @@ is Dusty.

By Midori

July 2, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Cindy,

It’s only a “crime” when someone other than the wingnuts do it.

By The Watcher

July 2, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

There are no neo-con crimes…..

Or so they are trying to make us believe

By Paul

July 2, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

Hi Cindy

Actually, I don’t think this is a war about better mousetraps. Sure, we can do things to protect soldiers lives and limbs but that doesn’t kill the enemy - or change their ideology.

The changes in WWII - Liberty ships, evolution in fighter aircraft - tank design - were not done by Roosevelt (although he did kill several good design proposals because he didn’t like the “Republican” companies) - so it really doesn’t do to frame the lack of progress in design updates in term’s of “bushie’s war.” If anything, it’s the military leadership and the embedded civilian bureaucracy who have failed the soldiers.

None of the analysts I read or listen to refer to Gen Petraeus’s plan as “staying the course” (no there’s a guy I hope gets to a post like Army Chief of Staff - instead of people like the one who’s there now who presided over the past, failed policy. But guys like Petraeus are a bit on the outside - and people like Reid and Pelosi began stabbing him in the back right after they gave him a thumbs up, so I’m not holding my breath).

By Seeker

July 2, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

When a Neo Con does it, its not a crime.

By @@

July 2, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Watcher:

Did you miss the part where JJG got caught namejacking Buy Danish. Andy never tried to cover up his persona, he just changed his name to stay one step ahead of the “frayed” edges that are the leftist namejackers. His namechanges were justified.

Cindy:

Not a crime, just a “chicken” dance.

47 comments at ml’s today. Hmmmmmmmm, what’s up? certainly not ml’s numbers.

Watch the sockpuppet(s) rally to their cause now.

By Seeker

July 2, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

“His namechanges were justified.”

On the third tablet that Moses dropped on the way down the mountain -

(She better check with BD)

By Paul

July 2, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

@@

Well, on the off chance you and Dusty are the same, I won’t have to repeat this link. It’s an article I came across this weekend about a prof at Brandeis University who still supports the Iraq war - and tells why.

He makes a point some here have tried to make - that the state of the war now does not mean it was a “mistake.”

He clearly traces the influence of American Liberals in the current debacle - that the lesson of the 90s was that American military power could be used to right wrongs. He called it “an updated form of 19th century colonialism.” Our “success” in the Balkans and horror at what we didn’t do with Rwanda helped make Iraq possible.

Lots more good things to think about. It’d be nice if some of the more radical Lefties who post here would read it and think about it. A bit of introspection and recognition the world isn’t black and white. Yeah, right -

Link: The Last Liberal Holdout on Iraq

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Whew, what a day. So, did I miss anything fun?

By Paul

July 2, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Bosch

Not much. Please read the link above. I’d be interested in your take. Rushncap’s and N-GA’s, too, but they’re rather scarce.

I really liked the phrase ” the rebirth of imperialism with human rights as its moral warrant” - lots on the Left won’t want to take that on at all. Rather opens up the view of Clinton’s SecState Madeline Albright when she chided General Powell with her “what’s the use of having this military if you don’t use it?”

And is also why hardly anyone on the Left on this blog wants to justify proposed American imperialism in Sudan. There’s a provocative statement, eh?

By The AJC censors Conservatives but not perverts

July 2, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

How sad is this, all of the moonbats in here whining about the missing Cons that they cried about to the AJC day after day, every day, until they got them censored.

You liberals were such an overwhelming embarrassment to the AJC, with you getting soundly thrashed on a constant basis, only able to defend your selves with disgusting slurs and shouting insults, they had to bring an end to it before the whole world realized what idiots you really are.

They’ve been imposing rules on the Cons from day one, out and out censorship, to try and keep you from looking like fools.

But what fools do you look like sitting in here on a beautiful summer day sharing lies with each other.

So go ahead, now that it is safe for you poor things, and make up all the BS that you can tell yourselves, give the cartoonist one sided pointless accolades, enjoy your fake, hand picked political “debate.”

By @@

July 2, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Paul:

Excellent article. I can recall a time when the leftists here were calling for an apology from Bush. A rather trivial request in respect to the war itself. I could envision a bunch of rabid dogs foaming at the mouth just waiting for their prey to display fatigue or injury. They have been sorely disappointed.

My response at the time was that “a leader” should never apologize for doing what he believed to be just. Bush has admitted to mistakes but should apologize for nothing IMO. Just as Mr. Makiya said…it’s a question of morality. The left defines morality differently. As far as they’re concerned, morals weaken the strength of a country. Keep it confined, unable to grow progressively.

There were a couple of moderate leftists here some time back with military experience. They didn’t agree with our invasion into Iraq, but they did advocate that we must finish the job to the best of our ability. It’s not going to take on the appearance of victory of past wars but we will at least be able to say, the job was done to the best of our abilities and under the worst of circumstances. There has definitely been a learning curve we had to overcome.

My personal opinion is that we should prepare ourselves to remain in Iraq for many years beyond what we intended.

But the left will stand firm in their belief that THAT was the “evil” intentions all along.

There is literally NO WINNING with the left.

I’m bored with this site and out for now.

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Paul,

“If anything, it’s the military leadership and the embedded civilian bureaucracy who have failed the soldiers.”

That is bush’s responsibility as the commander guy. Thanks for making my point.

It is about a better way to do things, not just specific items. Adapting to the fight, etc. rather than staying the course for 4 years. The US adapted to do better in WWII, but they have floundered in Iraq under the bush non-leadership.

Staying the course should have been thrown out long before a couple of months ago. But the neocons on this blog sure did support it. Patreaus may be good, but that doesn’t justify all the ill planned and illegal activity before.

I still don’t see what will get accomplished there other than an Iranian satellite or even a major war between the Shiites and Sunnis in the entire ME for the territory. These people have hated for thousands of years, a few years of US occupation won’t change that. Like the honor killings are still a part of the new freedom government.

By Cindy

July 2, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

BTW Paul,

The problems currently occurring in Iraq were NOT some obscure possibility. I don’t have to go google an analyst; there were plenty of them. The neocons chose to ignore the messages and subdued the warnings. Heck that was something in our water fountain conversations, but then maybe we had a little more knowledge of the culture than bush. But that too is one of his great failings; not “learning the enemy”. He is textbook on how not to conduct a war; if this were the middle ages we would now belong to another fiefdom. It is a good thing that it was a super power against a third world country.

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Paul, Well, I read the article and I have to say, that I respect this guys opinion.

Many of the conversations I had with my friends, both conservative and liberal, had the conclusion that we should stay, but that was a long time ago, and now, I just don’t see it. We’ve waited too long. The Iraqis have chosen their outcome. I think it was you who said earlier, at the end of WWII, there weren’t tribes within Japan and Germany waiting for years to get even with each other. They knew they lost and wanted to rebuild their lives — the Iraqis don’t see that because their country isn’t “set up” the same way. It’s futile to compare WWII to the modern day warfare going on in the Middle East. I don’t think Cindy was trying to do that, but again, it’s a totally different scenario.

I personally think that we won the war a long time ago — that is, the war we started — we got rid of Saddam Hussein and his regime. Other than that, I don’t think anyone can tell for sure, what we are still doing there. I never understood why we went into Iraq in the first place, and I feel that many “liberals” feel the same way. I feel one of Bush administration’s biggest failures is that they did not pay attention to many experts (in many countries) who tried to tell them that basically, what is happening now, will happen after Saddam Hussein is gone, and now we are in a mess of epic proportions, not just for this country, but on the global scene.

The Muslim extremists are a very patient group and will wait to strike for many years. I feel that this war is just the beginning and to be honest, I think we need to bring our troops home and hunker down for the long haul. I don’t feel like we have “failed” so much in Iraq, I think we’ve done a lot of good, but now, it’s just a beehive, and it’s just best to leave it alone before we get stung even more.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

Cindy

It’s the military leadership (specifically, the JCS) and the service secretaries to bring those issues to the fore. It’s not the “commander guy’s” responsibility to play 20 questions and to have his military advisors (italics) keep quiet and think “I wonder if he’s gonna ask me about…”

Same is true with Health and Human Services. Education. Others. Sure, the Pres lays out the broad outline. But it’s the responsibility of the bureaucracy to say “this is how we make it happen” or “it’d be better if we do this” or “here are the pitfalls.”

Granted, Rumsfeld and the generals he was with at the time were pretty pigheaded about some things. But they were the “experts” advising (again, that’s the primary role of the Chiefs of Staff) the Pres.

Y’know, the Chiefs, even AF General Myers, repeatedly said when they toured Iraq, went to CENTCOM, asked questions, they passed on the answers they got to the Pres. What’s that tell you? (another jab - even some among the touring generals with book deals).

Lots of what I read in the last part of the post is anger over the history. Lots of people share that. Including many in the midlevel officer ranks in the military - who are going to be stuck with this situation and face similar situations in the future (the same guys who’ve asked the senior leadership “didn’t you guys learn anything from Vietnam?” Except Gen Powell. He did.).

Good points in your last paragraph. They will swirl around us and continue on in their thousand-year-old mindset. I’ve said in the past a major reason we’re interested in that area is oil - but we did not invade for oil. Likewise, if we were completely energy independent and had no military presence there - there would still be jihadists who would be attacking the Crusaders to compensate for their failed culture. But that’s another discussion.

By @@

July 2, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this

Just couldn’t resist…

Bush commutes Libby’s sentence.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

So Shrubby commutes Scoot’s sentence. Just when you thought Bush could not lose any more credibility…

I’m impressed with the man. I think he’s shooting to become the first President with negative approval ratings. And doing a spectacular job so far.

By Gonna Love 08

July 2, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

With Dubya commuting Scooters lying ways, i guess out the window goes the GOP’s claim to be beholden to the law..

By Jesus

July 2, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

Paul, It just occured to me that I didn’t answer your specific question (see, I’d make the perfect President). But as far as the rebirth of imperialism with human rights? Well, I think that is happening, but why? No one likes to see genocide and human suffering, but I think that is not just a U.S. problem. I think that is a U.N. problem. I still totally believe in the mission of the UN, even though I think all in government is so corrupt that it is impossible to do anything about it. I think we all need to look at “big pictures” of human suffering, and what it all boils down to is money. Money and power, and we need to investigate what is behind the need for a particular need for money and power. Do I have a solution? No.

I’ve been in two interesting meetings all day that have a “political” nature to them, one in particular, that I am going for one of your hateful earmarks! I’ve never worked with earmark proposals, so I’ll have a new sense of how these works very soon, and see first hand just how our Georgia politicians view what is important (to them) and what is not. I can’t wait to see how this turns out.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 6:14 PM | Link to this

I would be shocked if he didn’t.

We are talking about a new Nixon, for goodmess sakes.

We are no longer a nation of laws.

Geez.

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

And yes, Bush commuting Libby’s sentence is just a message to me that he was just a scape goat. Bush has just made himself and especially Darth Vader Cheny look more guilty.

So, I guess his promise to bring those responsible for the CIA leak is still open. Do you think he’ll come through?

Ha Ha.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this

Getalife, please do not insult Bush. He’s worked tirelessly to become much worse than Nixon, and you should give credit where credit is due.

By Bumper Sticker

July 2, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

Scooter Libby to Bill Clinton:

It depends on what your definition of lying under oath and obstructing justice is.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

rushncap

Still gotta admire the guy. Doesn’t play games with the Justice bureaucracy doing all their normal “process” with - what’s the word - commutations? not commutes? - in the final days of his Presidency -

Comparisons with Pres Clinton will be inevitable. Especially the absolutely horrid people whose sentences he commuted. Hmmm, do you think he had a political angle - do this now so his action would be seen in the light of day, with him standing tall to talk about it - with Sen Clinton now getting asked about her husband’s pardons - and and her associates roles (and profits) from it.

Never a dull moment, that’s for sure.

Bosch

I too really enjoyed the article. So many good discussion points - but ones many here will shy from. Especially the idea that Liberals sowed the seeds with their moral imperialism. What a concept -

I also liked the comparison of “say you’re sorry” to the communist show trials. Maybe Hillary’s advisors should read it - but not say it - then the uberLeft would really crucify her.

Your last paragraph - it’d be in America’s interests if the gov’t succeeded and the jihadists (and Sunnis) didn’t. Lots of battles have been won when one side was down to their last few bullets and last few troops - but the other side didn’t know that and withdrew.

Then again, the flip side is like a gambling addict - this next round has just gotta be different! -

By Bill

July 2, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

Known common thieves and liars gather together. Thus do we have Libby and, as always, Bushie. You weak little Repunks have not an ounce of shame. As always. It is good.

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Paul, If you don’t stir beehives, then, well ———

Bring them home, and hunker down.

Well, when it comes to actual genocide, then I think we (as a part of the UN) should interfere, but it’s never that cut and dry. There is always a reason of why there is the genocide in the first place — and again, that is where money comes in. Humans have a pesky way of getting in the way of progress.

By Bosch

July 2, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

Oh, and many of those battles that are won with the “last bullet” usually only happen in movies.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Paul — I don’t know the full list of people Clinton pardoned. I’m sure he’s pardoned his share of bastards, but also some drug dealers, which is minor stuff at best. But this is a pardon for a serious, politically motivated crime. This is Bush saying loudly and clearly to the whole nation: “I know you all hate me, so now I’m gonna do what I can because I’m not even going to pretend to listen to the people.” He knows for a fact that this move will be criticized by everyone to the left of @@, meaning by about 80% of the population. And he no longer cares. He’s riding this “lame duck” thing into the ground, no longer even bothering with the pretense of listening to the will of the people. This is, let’s be honest, one giant middle finger to all of us. Nothing new here, of course, but usually he bothers with sugar-coating that finger by pretending like it’s something else. No longer. This is “screw you all” to the country.

By Political Foreskin

July 2, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

I love W’s explanation for his Libby pardon: “The jury was a dirty bird, Libby’s not grungy, he’s b***’”

By Paul

July 2, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

Bosch 6:14

A long time ago I came to the acceptance the UN is our baby. We gave birth, we provide most of the child support, and we overlook a lot of the spoiled behavior of our darling offspring. I understand the humaneness that recoils from the genocide and the human suffering - but when the UN won’t act (look at Sudan - and the stalling and delaying tactics of many Moslem nations to prevent UN interference) - the strong tendency is to go it alone - because we can.

The French have been up to their eyeballs with their former African colonies the last few years - maybe with Chirac out we’ll see new US/French cooperation on such matters. Oh, joy //sarc//.

I’ve mentioned before - Ralph Peters wrote in the 1990s that one of America’s biggest challenges would be to draw the line at nonintervention when our strategic interests are not involved. And he though we’d fail once we saw pictures of suffering. But, Bosch, these situations will be constant. And some of them will require an open-ended commitment. Like the Balkans. Thanks, Bill.

Regarding the Libby thing:

The Pres had three choices:

Do nothing.

Commute on his way out of office (here come the Clinton comparisons. Wonder if Dick Morris will see the “Hillary gets drug back to her husband’s less than finest moments” angle?).

Commute before he leaves office, take the expected criticism, then watch the attention and comparison shift to Hillary.

All in all, not a bad political tactic.

By rushncap

July 2, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

Paul — I’m not sure what you mean by “not a bad political tactic”. I really think this is a white flag by Bush. As in “OK, I give up on ever regaining even a smidgeon of popularity”. I don’t think this is a political move at all, to be honest. I think this is a move designed to not p!ss off those who are gonna give money to his Pwesidential Libery. They are pretty much the only ones who are not yet ready to drop him off in the middle of the Sahara with a flask of whiskey and a tube of suntan lotion.

By Political Foreskin

July 2, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

What’s a little frightening is that neither Bush nor Cheney feel the slightest bit of personal responsibility for their actions. They feel above the rabble we call “the American People”, you know, US?

This is the worst case scenario that our founding fathers tried to pre-empt with that little document called the constitution and the bill of rights, and the checks and balances, but no founding father could have envisioned the total betrayal by foreign-payed traitors like bush and cheney ruining our country and destroying our liberties and laws and everything.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

rushncap

Check our Marc Rich. Guy’s worse than a snake. Born in Belgium, came to the US as a kid. Don’t know off the top of my head if he became a citizen, but if he did, “treason” comes to mind.

My point earlier who of the group who were pardoned by Pres Clinton were “as bad as” or “worse” then Mr. Libby. I think the “middle finger to the country” is a bit extreme. This Pres has shown when he takes a stand he stays by it. That can be good - or….

But my point was he did it in the full light of day, with a year and a half left, and I’d expect some unflattering attention will flip to Hillary - especially as they’ve both been playing up his “experience” and “advisory” roll. Now comes the questions - with the excuse of his pardons - is this the kind of advice we want the First Lady to receive?

Again, a pretty good political move, in that regard.

By Bumper Sticker

July 2, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

Dick Cheney to Pat Leahy:

Go read the back of A-Rod’s wifes T-shirt!

By Midori

July 2, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

Is anyone really surprised by this commutation?

Anyone?

Craven cowardly cretins - the lot of them.

Bush just taking care of his “donors”, as stated by Rushncap above.

The guy is lower than whale sh*t. Again, what did anyone expect?

By Paul

July 2, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

I just heard the Pres didn’t pardon Libby, just commuted the jail sentence. He still has to pay the fine and he’s still a convicted felon. Thought the sentence was excessive so that was the reason.

We’ll see - maybe the late news will have more clarity.

By Midori

July 2, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this

yeah, that traitor Marc Rich.

He never outed a CIA agent, then helped cover it up.

What a ton of garbage of a man!!!

The same agent who was working on WMD at that!!!!!

I tremble in awe at Bush’s bold, presidential move!!!!

Such a terrible political move Clinton made in pardoning him!!!

not in the light of day, and not with more than a year left in his term!!!

the cowardly POS!!!!!

He could have thrown caution to the wind and acted like a REAL man!! Like Bush!!!

You know, the guy who has trashed our govt., our justice dept., our federal aid programs!!!

National security my arse.

By getalife

July 2, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Midori,

Not at all surprised but Paul is absolutely giddy.

Soft on crime and treason is nothing to be happy about.

Cons love cons I guess.

Geez.

By Midori

July 2, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

Getalife:

DOJ manual on Commutations (emphasis added) …

Section 1-2.113 Standards for Considering Commutation Petitions

A commutation of sentence reduces the period of incarceration; it does not imply forgiveness of the underlying offense, but simply remits a portion of the punishment. It has no effect upon the underlying conviction and does not necessarily reflect upon the fairness of the sentence originally imposed. Requests for commutation generally are not accepted unless and until a person has begun serving that sentence. Nor are commutation requests generally accepted from persons who are presently challenging their convictions or sentences through appeal or other court proceeding.

By Paul

July 2, 2007 7:09 PM | Link to this

Midori

Leave it to you to play the “who’s worse” game. I was talking about the timing and the implications. Ideology blinds many -

getalife

giddy? Hardly. Just struck by what could have been a good political tactic by an Administration not know for such moves -