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Home > Opinion > Mike Luckovich > Archives > 2007 > February > 04 > Entry

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Comments

By George

February 5, 2007 08:01 AM | Link to this

Who Cares! The guy isn’t dead yet.

By Mrs. Godzilla

February 5, 2007 08:12 AM | Link to this

Mike, Please don’t insult a reasonable, demure, well spoken gentleman like Yosemite Sam.

By N-GA

February 5, 2007 08:12 AM | Link to this

I think a statue of a package of Zig-Zag rolling papers would be appropriate.

By Brian Curtis

February 5, 2007 08:24 AM | Link to this

Yosemite Sam isn’t old enough to represent Zell and his senility.

By N-GA

February 5, 2007 08:27 AM | Link to this

“That this kind of voice could travel here from a forgotten corner of Appalachia is a testament to the grace of God and the greatness of the Democratic Party…

I am a Democrat because we are the party of hope. For 12 dark years the Republicans have dealt in cynicism and skepticism. They’ve mastered the art of division and diversion, and they have robbed us of our hope.” Zell Miller, 1992 Democratic National Convention

He called Lyndon Johnson: “…a Southerner who has sold his birthright for a mess of dark porridge,”

And he said in the 1993 State of the State address: “We now proudly send our sons and even our daughters abroad to defend the United States of America. Yet we maintain as a symbol of our state a flag that challenges the very existence of the United States of America. And a flag that exhibits pride in the enslavement of many of our ancestors.” He has since tried to backpeddle from that statement.

He ain’t called Zig-Zag Zell for nothin’.

By Shawny

February 5, 2007 08:39 AM | Link to this

Zell is just ok. Nobody great; nobody terrible.

This cartoon is pretty lame, though. Great likeness of Yosemite Sam. What’s the point? Maybe I am just not ‘enlightented’ or ‘progressive’ enough to understand it.

Why we are putting a statue of a guy that isn’t even dead doesn’t make sense. But neither does changing Memorial drive to Cynthia McKinney Pkwy while she was still serving in congress. Both are wastes of taxpayer monies.

By DebbieDoRight

February 5, 2007 08:47 AM | Link to this

Toooo Funny!! But an appropriate statue for Zell would be a georgia lottery ticket!!! And I don’t think being dead should be a percursor to being made into a statue — look at dubya!! He’s the original “stone man” of politics!

By LMAO

February 5, 2007 08:48 AM | Link to this

Hey Shawny, maybe you’re not “independant” enough to understand the cartoon. LMAO!!!!

By Brad

February 5, 2007 09:01 AM | Link to this

Giv’em hell Zell!

By @@

February 5, 2007 09:04 AM | Link to this

A statue of Zell at the Georgia State Capitol ml?

I’m not a big advocate of statues honoring politicians still living; but, if a statue is to be erected, let it be done from the mountaintop where Zell now resides, and from where Dr. King saw the other side. I can’t help but believe, that if Dr. King were alive today, he too, would have agreed with Zell…

“The elite, arrogant plantation owner believed his own self-interest to be more important than the slaves’ self-interest,” Miller writes. “A woman who favors abortion believes her self-interest comes before the unborn’s self-interest. In each case, the judgment is a moral one, made deliberately. What could be more arrogant than to believe one has the right to designate a life not worth living?”

It’s called “reflective wisdom”, not Zig-Zags.

Yosemite Sam isn’t an appropriate comparison for Zell ml. Sam is a haphazard kinda guy. Careless in his decisions. Shoots before he thinks.

Zell is smarter now. He thinks before he shoots, and he’s strong enough to withstand the return fire.

By Shawny

February 5, 2007 09:10 AM | Link to this

Whatever, dude (or dudette).

By getalife

February 5, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this

Here is your hero Dem at the RNC

Total disgrace.

By NightTrain

February 5, 2007 09:27 AM | Link to this

The left would eat its own to protect its party line. Zell is a free thinker and therefore cannot be a member of the cool-aid drinkers. While I do not agree with everything Zell supports, I do think he is one of the best politicians to come along in a long time.

However, as he is still alive, let’s hold off on erecting a statue.

Anyone who agrees 100% with any “party” is a serious cool-aid drinker. Bush has done some good things, he also has made a few mistakes. So did Clinton, Bush Sr., Regan, Ford, Carter and the rest of them. We have never elected a “perfect” politician and we never will. We always pick the lesser of two evils. That is why Hillary will never win, she is pure evil in a chameleon skin.

By mike

February 5, 2007 09:37 AM | Link to this

Interesting how folks can incorporate Cynthia, Dr. King and a woman’s right to decide what to do with her body into this forum on zigzag zell. One cartoon representing another cartoon. How appropriate.

By Mrs. Godzilla

February 5, 2007 09:38 AM | Link to this

Night Train

I’m not particularly impressed with Senator Clinton, but I am curious as to why you think she is “pure evil in a chameleon skin”?

By Randy

February 5, 2007 09:41 AM | Link to this

Mikey, The politician who doesn’t tow the party line is always seen as a maverick.

Any politician who speaks his mind regardless should be admired for his principles.

Joe Lieberman comes to mind. He was rejected by the dems because he supports the war in Iraq.

The dems are a one-trick pony ride for spoiled children. You can’t ride unless you like going around in circles

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Any statue of Zell must include two faces and a straight jacket.

By Brian Curtis

February 5, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Really, Randy? Can you perhaps name some courageous Bush-opposing Republicans that you “admire for their principles”?

By Goldie

February 5, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

{{While I do not agree with everything Zell supports, I do think he is one of the best politicians to come along in a long time.}}

NightTrain— you must be all of 12 years old and not know any better…

By Goldie

February 5, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

Yosemite Sam is a good analogy, Lucko— but he needs to be foaming at the mouth, too, for the statue to be authentic.

By DebbieDoRight

February 5, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Mrs. Godzilla: I think he thinks Hillary is evil because her husband balanced the budget, showed that a democratic president was fiscally responsible, tried to revamp healthcare so that the american people and not just the american pharmaceutical companies can benefit, instigated welfare reform — more people got off of welfare in the 8 years that Clinton was in the whitehouse, (mainly because there were JOBS that weren’t sent overseas), than at any time previously or since.

That makes the Clintons “EVIL”. Oh and wait, she forgave her husband for philandeering (shiver), that’s TRULY evil.

By Seriously

February 5, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Zell Miller may be the “best politician to come along in a long time.” And a politician that “speaks his mind regardless” may be an honorable thing.

But in this country we have 2 major political party’s. If Miller is a Democrat then we don’t have 2, we have one. We are not the old Soviet Union.

A clear difference in political Party’s is in the best interest of this country.

By NightTrain

February 5, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Mrs. Godzilla

Hillary will say and do anything to stay in power. She has changes her opinion like most people change their underwear. How can anyone like that be trusted? Today she claims that the sky is blue, tomorrow if it will benefit her and increase her power, she will claim that the sky is green and then claim that she never said it was blue. She supports you today, tomorrow you are dirt and she supports your opposition. Her answer to any issue is to take the money from the perceived “rich” and let the government dictate what the answer is and what is good for us. Her socialized healthcare program she tried to push on the American people when her husband was in power, more socializes schools (against school vouchers, against parents having a choice), and socialized employment (take from the rich to give to the poor-vote buying). Not to mention that she is very vindictive. Why else did she and her sex offender husband have all the files on people who had never done anything wrong other than oppose the “Clinton machine”. I could go on and on but why, the left loves anyone who can keep the vote buying programs in effect.

By Goldie

February 5, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

A couple of years before Zig-Zag Zell read the teleprompter at the Repugnant convention, he had this to say about Senator Kerry:

” My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation’s authentic heroes, one of this party’s best-known and greatest leaders — and a good friend. He was once a lieutenant governor — but he didn’t stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984…”

And then, let’s not forget who Zig-Zag chose to endorse for GA’s Lt. Governor last summer: Ralph Reed. That Zell’s truly a visionary politician, yes?

By Paul

February 5, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

NightTrain

Hillary took lessons from (Tricky Dick) Nixon. This weekend she said if the war isn’t over by 2009 when she’s Pres she’d do it (didn’t say how). Nixon got elected with a “secret plan to end the (VietNam) war).” Over half America’s casualties came after he was elected.

What was that statement about those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it?

By LMAO

February 5, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

So Miller is the ““best politician to come along in a long time”, Even though he has flip flopped his entire career, but Hillary is “evil” for doing the same thing!!!!

LMAO!!!!

By LMAO

February 5, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Hillary is “evil” for wanting universal healthcare???? Are you kidding??? WWJD?

By Paul

February 5, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Sen Charlie Schumer’s on NPR’s Diane Rehm show - proposing changing from changing funding of public schools from property taxes to income taxes. Now there’s an idea with promise.

Now he’s onto the canard that all rich people are Republicans. Now he’s onto hitting credit card companies for not controlling Internet porn. Another good idea. He’s two for three so far.

By Mrs. Godzilla

February 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Night Train.

Thanks for answering my question.

By Goldie

February 5, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Go, Dalai Lama!

“I have long believed in and advocated a dialogue and cross-fertilization between science and spirituality, as both are essential for enriching human life and alleviating suffering on both individual and global levels.”

I wonder how long it will be before the rightwing religious loonies will be protesting out on Clifton Road.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Great toon Mike! Can’t think of a better representation of the Zellephant than Yosemite Sam. His “duel” comments to Chris Matthews will live in comedic history forever.

By Truthman

February 5, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

That’s an insult to Yosemite Sam!!

He hated rabbits before AND after Bugs Bunny! Yosemite Sam never zigged or zagged!

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

What?

Yosimite Sam??

I pictured Zell to be more like the Weasel always rubbing his paws as he follows Foghorn leghorn around.

Zell just goes with who’s popular and in power at the time. In Georgia the Democrats were popular, and now Republicans are popular so he zigged to their side. Just another two faced politician media w*******.

By Al

February 5, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Night train, you pathetic runt. You’ve already gone off the track and crashed. You’re just too solidly ignorant to realize it. GTF outta here, back under your rock.

By Dubya

February 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

We’re still winning. Brushie’s new surge plan has already worked! Iraqis quake in terror at the thought of American troops. Baghdad is silent and boring. And “All’s Quiet On The Western Front” as well. Could it git any better? God bless Murcuh. Mishun complished.

By Edwin Williams

February 5, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

I guess Mikey can make fun of a Democrat as long as said Democrat does not tow the “party line”? Amazing how these people who say they believe in freedom of speech lambast anyone with a contrary opinion.

By THE REST OF THE STORY

February 5, 2007 01:07 PM | Link to this

EDWIN - You said Amazing how these people who say they believe in freedom of speech lambast anyone with a contrary opinion.

Freedom of speech means you have

FREEDOM TO LAMBAST

those who disagree, if YOU want to go ahead and lambast the folks you AGREE with -go for it. We’ll not fuss. It’ll just sound pretty ridiculous.

ALSO - do you get the concept of an EDITORIAL CARTOON? It’s SUPPOSED to show the opinion of the artist. AND, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION HERE…..

YOU CAN LAMBAST THE CARTOONIST if your opinion is contrary.

OK NOW repeat slowly….

Freedom of speech is for everybody.

Freedom of speech is not just for people who agree with me.

Freedom of speech is for cartoonists too.

Freedom of speech is for me and YOU, too!

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 01:08 PM | Link to this

Edwin Williams (I’ll go with EWE for short…

EWE,

please make sure your defense of freedom of speech extends to ‘do I make you (Randy)’, ‘Train wreck’, and the usual rightwing sycophants that bust their gut over every syllable uttered by Hilary and others.

Otherwise, you’ll just be another shameless hypocrite…

By Midori

February 5, 2007 01:08 PM | Link to this

Edwin Williams,

Yup. Just like you guys all support Sen. Hagel.

By Randy

February 5, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis @ 10:12, if I really thought the opposing Republicans were acting on principle, I’d say good for them. I think their actions are politically motivated & self serving. They know there’s nothing that can be done to stop the conflict in Iraq while Bush is president.

Zell Miller had chosen to leave the senate before he voiced his outrage over what the dem party had become. A political machine driven by the fringes of the far left. He wanted to forewarn them of their demise. He walked away in frustration. I fault him for leaving. I would rather he had stayed the course, but given his age and love of family, it was understandable.

Joe Lieberman changed his party, risked it all & won. I admire him even more. He risked his political capital on principle.

Surely that must tell you how Connecticut voters view the complexities of this war & the anti-war rhetoric coming from people like LaMont.

Empty rhetoric is useless. Simple minds can achieve nothing substantial or enduring in the interest of national security.

Take a look at what the dems have offered thus far. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

They’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.

By Brian Curtis

February 5, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this

Randy: Exactly as I expected…. your definition of “people of principle” is really “People who agree with you and Bush.”

Which has nothing to do with principle at all. You only praise Democrats who defect to the dark side, but condemn (I believe RINO is a popular term) Republicans who acknowledge reality.

Why bother using the word “principle” at all, since you clearly don’t know what it means?

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 01:29 PM | Link to this

It seems ‘do I make you Randy,’ considers the people responsible for taking us into war on either lies or bad intelligence (you pick)…

And, have incompetently administered our military actions ever since…

Are ‘part of the solution?!?!?!’

Unbelievable…

By AntiRadical

February 5, 2007 01:43 PM | Link to this

OK toon ML. What’s the point? I believe that Miller was a good Governor but he’s history now. How about a toon on something pertinent.

No one is talking about the elephant in the room today: Bush submits $2.9 trillion budget to Congress

That’s up another half a trillion over last years record budget. Reps certainly have a curious manner of “reeling in runaway federal spending”, don’t they?

As part of his proposal, “Bush’s spending plan would make his first-term tax cuts permanent, at a cost of $1.6 trillion over 10 years.” I think everyone knows that this proposal has less than a “snowball’s chance” of getting through Congress but, like the Dems confidence vote on the Iraq escalation, it is merely intended to force Congressmen/women to go on record. There remains little popular support for tax-cuts aimed primarily at upper incomes without corresponding spending cuts.

Reps should wake up and smell the coffee. The “Lower Your Taxes” vote buying mantra and bugaboo that has served them well before is now falling flat on its’ face. Americans have become much more saavy and now realize that cutting taxes without making hard politically unpopular cuts in spending is fiscally irresponsible.

Interestingly, at this point in our nation’s history, it appears that it is the Dems who appear to have the integrity and political will to take on the budgetary third rail. Reps ran from the repsonsibility when they had the wheel; it will be interesting to see if the Dems demonstrate more courage.

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 01:44 PM | Link to this

Some get it while others, regrettably, do not.

“The resolution was a resolution that authorized the president to take that action if he deemed it necessary. Had I been more true to myself and the principles I believed in at the time, I would have openly opposed the whole adventure vocally and aggressively. I had a tough time reconciling doing that against the duties of majority leader in the House. I would have served myself and my party and my country better, though, had I done so.” -Dick Armey (R-TX)

The notion that Democrats voted for the war is explained the same way. In fact they have been explaining it this way. Maybe if a Republican says it they’ll listen. Yeah right.

By AntiRadical

February 5, 2007 02:00 PM | Link to this

Randy @1:14- “Take a look at what the dems have offered thus far. Nothing. Nada. Zip. They’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

Fallacies in logic. Just becuase you are not part of the solution does not neccesarily mean that you are part of the problem; you may just be an objective observer (hattip to @@). The sectarian violence in Iraq is increasing; since it appears that we are not the solution are we then part of the problem?

There are egregious errors that sometimes can not be fixed; they are unsolvable. This is the “Humpty Dumpty” principle. Occasionally all one can do is call attention to the fact that the egg is broken, it can’t be fixed, it is broken, and it will always be broken no matter how hard we wish otherwise.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 02:03 PM | Link to this

Aw gee,

Just another sloppy cartoon so liberal Democrats can say Zell bad!! Bush sucks! And then on to I support the troops but I hate the Commander-in-Chief and the General we appointed to run our efforts. Then it is “cut-n-run” and raise our taxes and “Isn’t our flip-flopper Hillary just the greatest thing since Kerry?”

Lead on, Luckovich. Your little gang is still following. What’s for tomorrow? General Petraeus as General Electric?

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 02:06 PM | Link to this

Blackadder

That’s a NeoCon smokescreen argument anyway seeing as a much higher percentage of Democrats voted “AGAINST” the resolution than the Republican lapdogs who voted yes. The Republicans voted for this war not the Democrats.

[House]

Voting yes were 81 Democrats and 215 Republicans.

Voting no were 126 Democrats, six Republicans and one independent.

[Senate]

Voting “yes” were 29 Democrats and 48 Republicans.

Voting “no” were 21 Democrats, one Republican and one independent.

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 02:16 PM | Link to this

The slow demise of the national Republican Party just took a turn for the worse. Hard to believe that the GOP’s prospects could actually become more bleak after two years of unrelenting bad news, but it has.

Republican senators are now turning their rhetorical guns away from Democrats and toward one another. A few conservative Republican senators, whose votes usually cheer me up during bleak political times, are actually accusing Virginia’s senior senator, John Warner, of providing comfort to terrorists.

The Bushies even got involved in the name calling when Tony Snow suggested Warner’s actions could embolden the likes of Osama Bin Laden. The only thing that emboldens Bin Laden is the fact that Bush stopped looking for him.

The message from the Bushies seems to be: “Thanks for carrying our water on this miserable war for four years. Now we’re going accuse you of helping terrorists.”

How pathetic.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 02:35 PM | Link to this

Anti-Radical,

Well, give up and run. Is that the way you treat patients? If the problem is hard to overcome, just give up?

This war is not over. We are trying new tactics. Do you think Iraqis under Saddam had a better life than that which will follow our success? Did those starving while the money for the food program went to build palaces not bother you? And don’t tell me they had better electricity, pipe lines and police than they do now in wartime.

That does not seem a good trade for torture, mass graves, a brutal dictatorship and no freedom. Iraqis do have a chance now for freedom, more than they ever had before.

Decisions in retroscpect are always easier to make. If you think Democrats are the “rescuers” of this country and it’s policies, think again. Your blank approval of their political actions is hardly impartial observation.

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 02:39 PM | Link to this

Dusty

What will follow tomorrow is that Mike L. will probably put out another great toon with a quality thought provoking stab at the quirks of our society.

They should rename the road to the Cynthia McKenny and Zell Miller Parkway! Sort of like they renamed Hartsfeld airport.

By Ralph

February 5, 2007 02:40 PM | Link to this

You embeciles. You best pray to whatever it is you worship for some form of nationalized medecine/healthcare program. Pull your head out of your rear and see how many doctors are closing up shop, the millions of uninsured and underinsured. The rest of the civilized world does quite well in that regard. Once upon a time it was the US that took the ideas of others, improved upon them, and made it all better. For more than 60 years, one group of scum, and one group only, has fought against any form of organized medical care - the Republiscum party. Open your eyes, dimwits, and see the world crumbling around you. It’ll be great when it’s YOUR turn.

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 02:49 PM | Link to this

One thing is for sure. The tens of thousands of Iraqis who are now dead, as a result of our occupation, sure had a better life under Saddam.

The Iraqis who are still alive had a better life under Saddam as well.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this

Peoples for a Nuked Amerika and other trivia trolls,

If Luckovich puts out a thought provoking stab at the quirks of our society, that would be quite a change from his usual comic book cliches. But then he does have to stay on the same level as his supporters.

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

Indeed!

‘How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?’

[John F. Kerry during the Vietnam hearings]

By getalife

February 5, 2007 03:07 PM | Link to this

Crust the clown,

Why does this country need “rescuers”?

Are you admitting the destruction of this country by your party?

My guess is, you will not.

You will blame others like w trying to blame Iran for his disaster in Iraq.

Intellectual cowards.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 03:10 PM | Link to this

Blackadder, you viper.

I believe in freedom. You do not.

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

Ask the tens of thousands of dead innocent Iraqis about freedom.

Ask the more than 3,000 dead American troops about freedom.

Don’t presume to tell me what I believe in. Obviously your version of freedom differs from 70% of your fellow countrymen.

By bon scott

February 5, 2007 03:24 PM | Link to this

Name a bridge after Zell Miller? Only in Georgia.

While we’re at it, name a bridge after Newt Gingrich, the compassionate guy who served his wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital battling cancer. Hey there’s precedence!

the Talmadge bridge (actually a very pretty bridge) links Savannah with South Caronia’s route 17. A sleazier collection of “Gentleman’s Clubs” with open air booths for cocaine and meth probably can’t be found along a state line anywhere in the US, with the possible exeption of the Missouri-Kansas line and every state bordering Nevada..

Yeah, name bridges after Zeller and Newt. Make sure they connect to a neighborhood you never EVER want to go to.

It’s the Georgia way. Name a bridge or a highway that symbolize the state’s greed, arrogance and stupidity.

Only in America.

By Goldie

February 5, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

{{Joe Lieberman changed his party, risked it all & won. I admire him even more. He risked his political capital on principle.}}

No, Randy— Joe Schmoe hooked his wagon onto the Repugnant Party of Connecticut to get himself elected… took millions of $$ from the Repugs to revive his ego-driven campaign.

If only you’d do your research before making such ignorant statements…

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

Dusty - Actually I’d like for you to try and explain why I do not believe in freedom…

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 03:29 PM | Link to this

getalife the goner and groaner,

That was the whole point. Our country does not need rescuers, the position the Democrats are taking.

Here’s hoping Dems will have some new ideas, something other than running down the President, the Generals and the country at war. Right now, it is mostly complaints and who said what about Obama.

Meanwhile, Bush goes on with fighting the war, running the government, and dragging the Democrats into fighting for the country instead of politics.

By Truthman

February 5, 2007 03:34 PM | Link to this

What’s the most popular rank in the Greek Navey?

Rear Admiral!

What’s the most popular position among Congressional Republicans?

Minority Whip (come here, little page)!!

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 03:37 PM | Link to this

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

That was a good one Dusty!

You believe in Freedom. Oh tooo funny.

No Dusty you support Dubya and his policies of monitoring, wiretapping, intrusive searches, and control of the American Population.

In other words you don’t support Freedom, you support a future Police State.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/digital.php?episode=11

Heil Dubya and The PNAC 3rd Reich

By Bob

February 5, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

My friend, neocons are far too ignorant to comprehend, understand, or care about healthcare subjects. Neither they nor any of their family members should ever be permitted to share in the benefits of what precious little medical improvements we do make in this country.

By Truthman

February 5, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this

Dusty, we don’t denigrate the generals or any Soldiers for that matter.

We pity the generals because we realize they have to kiss Cheney’s culo if they want to keep their jobs.

At least Lt. Ehrin Watada has the guts to jeopardize his entire career by listening to his conscience and not his superiors!

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 03:44 PM | Link to this

Blackadder,

Seventy percent of Americans do not believe that living under a dictatorship is preferable to living with freedom. You have confused American sadness from war deaths with rejection of freedom. It simply is not true.

Why don’t you give us the statistics on Americans that want to “cut-n-run”, a most rejected action in the American personality?

Americans love freedom. We enjoy it and fight for it. We are giving the Iraqis the one chance at having it. I still believe they love freedom just like we do. It is a human characteristic.

By getalife

February 5, 2007 03:48 PM | Link to this

crusty,

um idiot, the Generals were purged for being against the escalation, many of the gop are against it and the majority of American people.

Be the silent minority.

By Willie

February 5, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

Dustmite, what a simplistic soul are you, never having intellectually developed reyond a slow-learning 2nd grader. How pathetic.

By the way, Repug and KKK member Trent Lott is speaking on the tube at this very moment. Now that’s both enlightening and refreshing. Surge on!

By Willie

February 5, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

Dustmite, what a simplistic soul are you, never having intellectually developed reyond a slow-learning 2nd grader. How pathetic.

By the way, Repug and KKK member Trent Lott is speaking on the tube at this very moment. Now that’s both enlightening and refreshing. Surge on!

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Seventy percent (or more) think Bush is doing a terrible job. Of that number an overwhelming amount want us out of Iraq.

Yes Americans love freedom. That’s why The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika’ Century!’s 3:07 rings so true. Wonder why you neocons can’t agree?

By Blackadder

February 5, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Gotta go - duty calls. See you all tomorrow.

By Brian Curtis

February 5, 2007 03:54 PM | Link to this

And again Dustry trots out her tired old “Disagreeing with the war is the same as hating freedom and America” argument.

No one’s buying it, Dusty. But I understand why you keep bleating it over and over… it’s the only argument you know, and you keep hoping it’ll shut up the REAL patriots who are making life h-ell for the Bush empire.

By getalife

February 5, 2007 03:56 PM | Link to this

I forgot the troops are against it and 20 States

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 03:57 PM | Link to this

Dusty, how lovely would it have been if you and your ilk had ANY understanding of human nature. Your “human characteristic” speal belongs in an after-school special, not in a serious foreign policy discussion.

By Randy

February 5, 2007 04:21 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis @ 1:28, what do you do in traffic when you hit a roadblock?

Do you move through it? Drive around it? Put the car in reverse and find another route or do you abandon the car and leave it there idling waiting to be towed away?

What would a wise man do at the junction smarta$$?

I don’t like the way this war in Iraq has been waged from the beginning. You wouldn’t have liked my way.

If I was the CIC, there would have been fewer American casualties but even more collateral damage. The troops would have been home by now. You’d like that, right?

Principle for me is finishing what I start. Getting to where I want to go even if it’s only close to the destination.

By AntiRadical

February 5, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this

Hi Dusty @2:35- Sorry but I’m not giving “blank approval for the Dem actions” and I don’t think they are our “rescuers” in the Iraq debacle. What actions have they taken to criticize or approve?

What I said was that I think Iraq is an unwinnable exercise in futility, the “Humpty Dumpty” principle personified. To criticize the Dems for not fixing what was unfixable to begin with is hardly a “plan for victory” either, it is simply misdirection.

That said, I’m all for giving it the best shot we’ve got while we’re already there. Unfortunately, that’s not what Reps want to do. They want to fight a war on the cheap, without adequate force and investment to get the job done because the cost that is truely needed would be politically distasteful and Reps have been too cowardly to take that hit. They have not been honest with us in that regard and they have paid the political price for that dishonesty.

I wish it were different but it is not the Dems responsibility to fix this mess. That responsibility belonged to the party that made the mess to begin with until they failed to perform, and the electorate fired them. Now, like it or not, it’s time to honor the voice of the majority of the American voters. The Dems are simply following the mandate of their bosses (the voters). It seems that your beef is with them, not the Dems, per se.

PS- The Dr/Patient analogy is apples/oranges in respect to this subject (analogies are always suspect) but, sadly, there is the rare patient who has ansolutely no viable treatment modalities or a very poor prognosis. In that case, as painful as it is for them or me, I tell them the awful truth. To do otherwise, would dishonor us both and destroy the faith that they have placed in my integrity.

See everyone another day.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 04:29 PM | Link to this

Oh I didn’t notice.

rushncap, the freshman lab assistant and bottle washer is the man on the mountain in political discussions. Oh, my, please forgive me, great guru,for upsetting your sermons on the mount. I will try to be more careful.

All you other freedom lovers who are too afraid to mention freedom for fear you might not be politically correct, patriotism is still a nice word.

Maybe that is why you don’t use it. Sorta rubs you the wrong way. Somebody might think you support BUSH and throw you out into the cold dark world of freedom for which you don’t want to fight.

So much for the Benedict Arnold Society. I’m sticking with Patrick Henry. “Give me liberty or give me death.”

By LuckoDull

February 5, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this

Abandoning America troops in the field so that you can get some more votes:

Whether or not you think the war was a good idea, it was indisputably the product of President Bush’s leadership. He rallied the country behind it, so that it commanded something like 70% support in opinion polls. Congress’s support was similarly strong, with 69% of the House and 77% of the Senate (including not just Mrs. Clinton but also fellow Democratic presidential candidates John Edwards, Joe Biden and Chris Dodd, along with John Kerry) voting in favor of the war.

You think the Surrender Monkeys wouldn’t abandon the United States if they ever faced the choice between saving it or saving their as-ses?

It’ll be bye bye America, sure as the sun will set this evening.

When has Bush ever faltered from his position of victory in the war on terror?

You libs don’t even understand the concept of leadership.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

By Huge

February 5, 2007 04:34 PM | Link to this

Bush seeks cuts for Sallie Mae, other student lenders

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/02/05/budget.student.aid.reut/index.html

No Student’s Behind Left Untouched?

Who needs one of them edumacation loans, ceptin’ for that damn hoity toity librals?

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this

Didn’t you forget to mention a “white flag” somewhere in that rehash of old horse$#!t, Dusty? Don’t you get docked points for that?

By THE REST OF THE STORY

February 5, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

Based on what the Bush administration has been doing to our civil liberties have you done your pre-planning?

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this

Hey Luckotic Schitzo Andy!

Just for the record:

“I was against the war before I was against it!” (and I still am)

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 04:52 PM | Link to this

Anti-Radical,

You speak so nicely and so politically. This war is not over and yet you have given up.

Yes, it is costly in lives and money. President Bush told us that it would cause very hard times to go to war. But Americans, through Congress, told him they were behind him all the way.

Now the hard times hit us. “It is broken. We can’t fix it. We are losing our sons and daughters. It costs too much. Bush did it, not the terrorists. Iraqis are not worth it and don’t care. Saddam is dead but where is Osama?” On and on moan the losers, the faint of heart.

You don’t like the doctor, patient analogy. But, Anti-Rad, you have given up on this Iraqi patient before the treatment is complete. There, dear doctor, is the truth of my analogy. This war is not DOA because you declare it to be so.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 05:01 PM | Link to this

I think Dusty actually believes that she is a “winner” and “strong in the heart” because she is too dumb and lazy to actually bother looking at reality. I think she believes she is helping us “win the war” (whatever that means) by putting a yellow bumper sticker on her SUV. In our darling Dusty’s world reality need not get in the way of self-esteem. Ain’t that cute?

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 05:03 PM | Link to this

Lucko-Curl,

What do you call those that took us into a war of choice based on lies or bad intelligence (you pick) that has been incompetently administered ever since?

This incompetence has been exacerbated by fiscal mismanagement and it has all occurred while Republicans enjoyed majorities in the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our gov’t.

The American people just threw you incompetent dipshiites out of the legislative branch and will take back the Executive branch in 2008.

Your side had a shot and blew it…

How does it feel to be such a loser?

By getalife

February 5, 2007 05:05 PM | Link to this

Thats great Dusty.

Did you give the same support to Clinton in his war?

How bout you Andy?

By The Peoples for a Nuked Amerika' Century!

February 5, 2007 05:09 PM | Link to this

Yes Danish

Here is your “Freedom!”

You will accept this chemical into your body whether you want to or not. This by the orders of the Führer, err I mean Government! Oh never mind, since it’s the same thing nowadays.

All to line the pockets of Merck and Co’ who contributed heavily to the funds of the now Governor (R-Rick Perry) during his campaign.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16975112/wid/11915773?GT1=9033

Now what happens 10 years from now when we find this vaccine has some attrocious side effect that causes permanent harm?

Are we now back to such Government mandated things such as Eugenics. Where the Government decides what you must take?

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2007/02/04/mesheugenics0204a.html

Say it with me! Freedom! Again! Freedom for all! Dusty you can say it! Freeeedom!

Next time we discuss the horrors and atrocities committed in Tuskeegee Alabama.

Now sing it with me!

“Freedom’s just another word that means nothing much at all!”

Patriot of the Nuked Amerika’ Century

By LuckoDull

February 5, 2007 05:12 PM | Link to this

By The Wankers for a Surrender Monkey AmeriFrance! February 5, 2007 04:51 PM Hey Luckotic Schitzo Andy! Just for the record: “I was against the war before I was against it!” (and I still am)

Peacemonger: When you say war, are you talking about when Bill Clinton was bombing Iraq or when George Bush was bombing Iraq?

You need to be more definitive.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 05:20 PM | Link to this

Poor guru rushncap,

He doesn’t even know the meaning of “winning the war”. Well, that is no surprise. Winning is not a word in his vocabulary. But it is in mine. And yes, freshman rushie, I want us to win the war. Look it up. W-I-N.

I don’t have an SUV, don’t like bumper stickers or ribbon decals. Sorry. rushncap is wrong as usual.

By @@

February 5, 2007 05:22 PM | Link to this

Ooohhh nooooo! Did AntiR insult me at 2:00?

Well, I never…

On second thought, yes…yes it has happened. Many here have done their best to insult me, but to no avail.

It must be my optimism. Even when guarded, it seems to frustrate them.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 05:22 PM | Link to this

Amazing what the Shrub’s incompetence has reduced Republicans to: “Well, Clinton did it too!” (see: li’l andy’s 5:12 post). Back before this utter failure of an administration took over the Republicans would not be caught dead doing anything Bill did. Now all they can do is whine “Well, he (sorta, kinda, though not actually) did it too.”

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 05:29 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, our Dusty says the definition of “win the war in Iraq” is “W-I-N”. Yes, the brilliant insight of Dusty strikes again. Thank you! I thought you were just gonna write something inane and uselessly bland. Glad we sidestepped that land mine.

By getalife

February 5, 2007 05:34 PM | Link to this

The hypocrites will never answer my question.

They screamed with their hero DeLay after one freaking month.

Clinton is a great leader, w not even close.

Get real wingnuts and watch the debate on C-Span2.

Check out this cut and runner:

“When Sen. John E. Sununu (R-N.H.) saw reporters approaching him last week, he took off in a sprint, determined to say as little as possible about a nonbinding resolution opposing President Bush’s troop-escalation plan, which is expected to come before the Senate today.

“You know where I stand,” the senator, who is considered politically vulnerable back home, said repeatedly as he fled down stairways at the Capitol. “I’m still looking.”

Cowards.

By LMAO

February 5, 2007 05:39 PM | Link to this

Thats all we need folks!!!!
.

W-hip

I-raq

N-ow

.

Can we get that made into cute little buttons?

By Buy Danish

February 5, 2007 05:48 PM | Link to this

Nuked for Brains,

You talking to me?

Little squirt rushncap,

Winston Churchill’s grandson, who knows a hell of a lot more about “human nature”, the Iraq War, and life in general than you, predicts that if the Brits in Parliament and the surrender monkey Americans in Congress get their way they would leave Iraq as a base for Al Qaeda’s terrorist camps, and in control of the oil fields.

You’ll pardon me for taking sides, but I’ll take Churchill’s advice over yours and your punk friends’ any day.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

geta,rushie,& Lordie,

Try to remember NOW as you ask the same question over and over.

President Clinton seemed just an average president until he LIED under OATH and had an immoral disgraceful relationship with a young woman in the White House.

I and most Americans did not support such a lapse of character in a President. Did you?

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 05:55 PM | Link to this

Oh yes, Dusty, Churchill’s grandson. I’m sure he has a genetic insight into Iraq. Brilliant. My grandfather built tanks… I guess I should go design the next Abramov right now, huh? How dense can you get?

You still run away from defining the term “win” as it pertains to Iraq. Go ahead. Admit it. You have no idea. It might be cathartic.

By getalife

February 5, 2007 05:56 PM | Link to this

Nice dodge dusty.

So you did not support the troops and you are not the patriot you spew to be.

Pathetic.

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:04 PM | Link to this

BD,

Your usual ignorance is once again illuminated for all…

Pray tell, how much chance was their of Iraq turning into a ‘base for al qaeda terrorist camps, and in control of the oil fields’ before we invaded?

Dusty,

I’ll take a competent President that lies about a BJ over an incompetent President that lies about the justification for war, incompetently manages the war, turns record surpluses into record deficits, sits and watches while real threats like NK and Iran build their nuclear arsenals, and squanders our influence in the world any day.

So sad that their can be such ignorance in this nation…

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 06:14 PM | Link to this

Sorry about that, rushie & LMAO,

Just trying to make it simple for you so you could understand. I’ll use some big words next time. Send me a WIN button, will ya? That is a good idea. Yes..WIN!!

By RW-(the original)

February 5, 2007 06:16 PM | Link to this

Let’s see if this sounds familiar.

A self governing Iraq that can defend itself and become an ally in the war on terror.

Why yes, it does sound familiar. That would also be what happens once we win in Iraq.

By @@

February 5, 2007 06:17 PM | Link to this

Well I’m seeing where AntiR has left, but he’ll be checking in.

AntiR:

You used a “Humpty-Dumpty” analogy for Iraq. Howzabout if we leave the “yolk” on the Iraqi government. Meet the benchmarks and/or we’re outta here.

Personally I don’t think we’ll be any the worse for having gone in given the fact that we were attacked by a borderless ideology prior to having done so.

Anyways…

Ahmadenijad isn’t looking too good with egg on his face?

Iranian Domestic Criticism of Iran’s Nuclear Strategy

[“In the past year, during which the current government has taken charge of the nuclear dossier, we saw the sanctions] resolution passed by the Security Council. I believe that with its next steps, America will realize all its aspirations with respect to Iran. Therefore, we need skilled, experienced and moderate individuals to save our country from crisis…”](http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA31707)

And then there’s “radical islam”.

Tunisian Reformist Abdelwahab Meddeb: It’s Up To the Arab to Take the Courageous Step Of Questioning His Faith

“It is up to the Arab to take the courageous step of questioning his faith until he feels that Islam is a disease, until he reduces this useless and all-pervasive influence to the size of an insect, until he de-Islamizes his Arab identity. Then the lock may begin to break, and the doors to freedom may begin to open.”

I have a lot of faith in man’s desire to seek and find something better than what is destructive to himself and his society. It’s the basic instinct of survival.

But then that’s just me.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 06:23 PM | Link to this

Thank you RW. Daydreaming must be nice. Having fun? Let us know when you want to rejoin reality.

By RE

February 5, 2007 06:24 PM | Link to this

Ahh A definition of victory. Nice RW.

Now what about a self governing Iraq that is an islamic republic, institutes sharia law, and is an ally of Iran. Would that be a victory as well?

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:27 PM | Link to this

Sure RW-(the obfuscator),

‘A self governing Iraq that can defend itself and become an ally in the war on terror’ would be great!!

But a self governing Iraq government aligned with Moqtada al Sadr and allied with Iran will probably not be much of a partner in the ‘War on Terror.’

Go ahead and believe your delusions…it is much better for supporters of this disastrous administration than acknowledging reality.

By Buy Danish

February 5, 2007 06:28 PM | Link to this

Pray tell, how much chance was their of Iraq turning into a ‘base for al qaeda terrorist camps, and in control of the oil fields’ before we invaded?

LHU,

Why don’t you ask that question of the Democrats like Jay Rockefeller who sent a letter to Clinton demanding that we take military action against Hussein?

Next ask yourself where Al Qaeda operatives ran to when we invaded Afghanistan.

By Dusty

February 5, 2007 06:29 PM | Link to this

Lordie,

A twisted mind is a sad thing to behold. To disagree with you is not ignorance. It is looking at the facts with an open mind, something you do not possess.

Grin and bear it in your sadness. You still live in the greatest country in the world even if you don’t want to fight for it.

And now it is dinner time…

By RE

February 5, 2007 06:37 PM | Link to this

Republican cowardice

They voted to stop debate on the iraq war. They do not want to go on record in any way about this war. Do they think it is going to go away on it’s own? The cowardice of shutting down any debate about what is happening in Iraq is stunning.

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:39 PM | Link to this

So Dusty,

When you say, ‘Grin and bear it in your sadness. You still live in the greatest country in the world even if you don’t want to fight for it…’

Please describe the ‘fight’ you have engaged in.

I can’t wait for this.

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:43 PM | Link to this

BD,

According to the 9/11 commission and recent reports, Al qaeda mostly ran to Pakistan and areas of Afghanistan that we do not have the troop levels to oversee.

Did you have a point or were you simply compelled to avoid a simple question AND illustrate how dumb you are…again…

By RW-(the original)

February 5, 2007 06:44 PM | Link to this

6:23, 6:24, & 6:27,

The three blind mice dance on command.

By @@

February 5, 2007 06:46 PM | Link to this

Maybe Rockefeller sent that letter to Clinton because he knew Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas had !?!retired!?! or were !?!vacationing!?! for life in Baghdad.

Wanted - Terrorists….both of them.

By @@

February 5, 2007 06:48 PM | Link to this

LHU:

According to intelligence reports and surveillance, Al Qaeda fled Afghanistan, went into Iran, and then back into Iraq.

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:52 PM | Link to this

RW-(the obfuscator),

6:28, 6:29, 6:44,

Three really stupid people that have nothing left but obfuscations to hide behind…

By Buy Danish

February 5, 2007 06:52 PM | Link to this

LHU,

Do you know what the word “propaganda” means, and what its purpose is?

Think 1939 Germany. Think Stalin. Think Mao. Think what the results were.

Now think of IslamoFascism. Think of the techniques they use to spread their message.

Think of what has happened and where we are headed.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 06:52 PM | Link to this

No no, RW, we really appreciated your fantasy. But as long as we’re living in your world, can we have a nice ski resort in a Baghdad suburb? Nothing too fancy, not Wistler-like, but maybe something along the lines of Mammoth or Kirkwood?

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 06:57 PM | Link to this

OO,

According to CREDIBLE intelligence reports, Al Qaeda leadership is enjoying their safe haven in Pakistan and were considered a threat by the secular gov’t in Iraq.

Please refute this if you have a CREDIBLE source.

Sorry, but we have learned we can’t trust you or the people you vote for…

Thanks in advance.

By RW-(the original)

February 5, 2007 06:59 PM | Link to this

Look at rushncap. Won’t lift a finger to help, but selfishly wants something for himself out of the deal.

By Lord Help Us

February 5, 2007 07:01 PM | Link to this

Sure BD,

Propaganda is crap like ‘mushroom clouds, ‘mobile bio-weapons labs,’uranium ore in Niger,’pilotless drones for spreading chemical weapons, ‘links to Al Qaeda…’

You know, complete BS that rallies sheep to your cause.

I could go on, but you wouldn’t know Bush propaganda if it swam up and bit you on your gargantuan arse.

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 07:02 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, RW. I tried to help you. I failed. Now granted, I didn’t try all that hard, but, then again, I don’t see much reason to. Now I realize that you’re beyond help. So I enjoy watching you jumping around throwing verbal feces. It’s amusing.

By @@

February 5, 2007 07:06 PM | Link to this

LHU:

Are you saying that you can’t trust all those Democrats like Jay Rockefeller who pleaded with, then Democratic President Clinton either?

Al Qaeda’s leadership is either in Afghanistan or Pakistan. He’s a volleyball, but Al Qaeda is all over the globe.

You’re welcome.

By Dan Fielding

February 5, 2007 07:08 PM | Link to this

Randy: Thanks for the preview of What Might Have Been. So if you’d been in charge, you would’ve screwed up even MORE spectacularly than Bush did, and with even less regard for the law and human life.

No wonder you’re a Bush supporter. The rest of the country figured out long ago that this war was, simply, a bad idea. And “doing it right” with more guns and more money wouldn’t have changed that.

By RW-(the original)

February 5, 2007 07:14 PM | Link to this

rushncap,

This is my third post of day, you’ll be hard pressed to find any feces throwing in this or the previous two.

Is it simply a delusion or is there some sort of addiction that’s causing these hallucinations of yours? If you can figure out which I’ll be happy to point you in the direction of some assistance.

LHU,

If you ever get beyond the name calling stage, try looking up Richard Clarke+Boogie to Baghdad.

By LuckoDull

February 5, 2007 07:15 PM | Link to this

Say hello to your next president:

WASHINGTON — Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor whose popularity soared after his response to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, moved closer to a full-fledged campaign for the Republican presidential nomination on Monday.

Before you start on the “gay” issue and his stance on abortion, just remember that Hillary is a “christian” and a “hawk” who wants to attack every country in the world accept Iraq.

Ummm, Vice President Rice.

Done deal.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

By Just Wondering

February 5, 2007 07:15 PM | Link to this

So who appointed “Lord Help Us” to be the blog attack idiot?

Is the life of this “Lord Help Us” so empty and meaningless that it has to take upon it’s shoulders the protection of the AJC from dissenting political comments?

Is it this “Lord Help Us” such a small minded, bitter, angry idiot simpleton that it has to attack people just because they participate in a political discussion, a political discussion that is obviously so far over the small mind of “Lord Help Us” that it has to rage at them like some demented psychotic?

If these bloggers were soliciting the opinion of this “Lord Help Us” would they not address their comments to “simpleton” or maybe “small ignorant person?”

If this “Lord Help Us” is so confident that it’s position is the correct one, then why doesn’t this idiot leave the personal sh-it and rage out of it and dispute their position with facts?

Are they too stupid to argue the facts?

Is their position too weak to argue with facts?

Is sputtering, ignorant raging attacks all this person can muster?

By rushncap

February 5, 2007 07:19 PM | Link to this

RW, you always throw feces. In fact, your 2nd post is one. Don’t worry, I find that endearing about you. Not much else is, so take a compliment.

By RW-(the original)

February 5, 2007 08:23 PM | Link to this

Now rusncap, haven’t you scolded us often enough about misusing the word “always?” The second post certainly isn’t an example, although three chicken littles would have been more appropriate. It’s just that they didn’t write a fairy tale called The Three Chicken Littles.

One wonders why you don’t have a chat with LHU since she comes much closer to your definition of “always” in the feces throwing department. Oh well, I guess as long as you’re a mindless lib all is right with the world.

Commenting is open from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. M-F

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