Mike Luckovich

By Brian Curtis

October 18, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

Another good point. Even considering the use of torture on prisoners damages America far worse than any terrorist attack could.

Gee, remember when America used to stand for something?

By Texican

October 18, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this

DRIPPING SPRINGS, Texas - The economy is strong and Rickye Lennon’s excavation business is thriving. Yet his son may soon go to war, government scandals are in the news, and Lennon, a Republican deep in the heart of Bush country, doesn’t think his party should remain in charge of Congress.

“I think we need a wake-up call,” said Lennon, 50, of Dripping Springs. “They need to be paying attention to the issues the people are concerned about and I think we need to become more moderate in our views.”

Man, there must be an election coming up. Some of the Republican faithful are starting to make sense ! ! !

By Defeatist Republicans

October 18, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - President Bush says flatly that Republicans will keep control of the House and Senate in the November elections. Vice President Dick Cheney doesn’t sound quite so certain.

Sounds like we have a ‘defeatist’ Vice-President, now ! ! ! (since we’re talking about a Republican, we’d have to put emphasis on the ‘Vice’)

By King George Starves the Elderly

October 18, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - The nation’s nearly 49 million Social Security recipients are in line to get a smaller average increase in their monthly benefit checks in 2007 than they did this year, though less of the gain will be eaten up by rising Medicare premiums.

King George tries to reduce social security payouts by starving old people to death to balance the deficit sheet. Isn’t it great to have business principles applied to government ? ? ?

By Wake Up Call

October 18, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - Americans are anxious and frustrated over the state of U.S. foreign relations, a survey indicates, with large majorities worried that the country’s foreign policy is making the world increasingly dangerous for the United States and its people.

Republicans think that they can ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’ but the American electorate is gonna give ‘em a wake-up call. The alarm clock is set for 11/7/06…….briiiinnnngggg ! ! !

By Mike

October 18, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Wow, some crackpot liberal has been busy posting under a variety of names this morning.

Hey “Texican” why are you posting under multiple names? Trying to make it look like there are mored idiots who share your silly views?

Try not to make it so obvious next time.

By Blog Dawg

October 18, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

Looks like the GOP finally looked at themselves in the mirror!

That was overdue!

I wonder if they see their Uncle Sam in that mirror? Gee, he looks funny with a Hitler Moustache, eh?

By Paul

October 18, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

Sadly predictable cartoon. The country finally, finally has the start of policy-turned-to-law on how to view, process, defend against and fight against terrorists and Mr. Luckovich keeps on with the “torture” canard.

Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld decision said Executive couldn’t act independently regarding tribunals - Legislative branch needed to be involved. So it was. Majority of Congress rejected the view that the war against Islamic jihadists is a law enforcement matter but recognized it is a warfare matter. They grappled for years with extranational forces, groups operating without direction by established countries, applying, not applying or partially applying agreements/conventions set up in earlier times for earlier circumstances. So Congress and the Executive jointly establish military tribunals as the means to try terrorists, sets out standards of treatment, appeals procedures and handling of classified material. Finally some progress.

And Mr. Luckovich views all these momentous events through the prism of “torture bill.” Sad.

By Protection From the Mad Chimperor

October 18, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

VIENNA, Austria - The head of the U.N. nuclear agency warned Monday that as many as 30 countries could soon have technology that would let them produce atomic weapons “in a very short time,” joining the nine states known or suspected to have such arms.

With King George on the loose, the world thinks it needs to protect itself from America ! ! ! I feel SOOOOoooo much safer, don’t you ?

By Republican Last Throes

October 18, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military reported Wednesday that nine American troops had been killed in bombings and combat, raising to 67 the number of U.S. troops killed in October.

Didn’t somebody say something about ‘last throes’ or was that just another Republican LIE ? ? ?

By Brian Curtis

October 18, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Nonsense, Protection. Once the U.S. shows how ready and willing we are to “kick some butt,” all the other countries will meekly fall into line and do whatever we say.

They just need to learn their place and know they can never, ever do ANYTHING to stop us, that’s all. Then everything will be perfect, and no one will ever dare to rebel. Heck, any former empire will tell you that!

By Mike

October 18, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

Republican Last Throes - Why don’t you just post under one name? Are you embarrassed by your compluslive need to post angry drivel?

By ed lorenzo

October 18, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

THANKS MIKEFOR VISITING THE HOSPITAL AND BRING OUT THE TORTURE SHAME

The Profesor and I shared a tear today, Mike.

He said: “We must thank Mike for reminding us that this so called war is having terrible consequences for far too many families here and in Iraq . Beyond the false front of the entire invasion operation, this action is a reminder of the erosion of will in this country!”

“What do you mean?”

“I expected of America a strong reaction to a totally unjustified action based on falsehood and treachery. Justice for all, fair play, honesty, charity, cojones, you know”l”

“What should or could have been done?”

“Opposition, protest, regime change. Our inaction shows a lack of conscience and humanity to allow a crime to take place without making an effort to stop it. Instead, people continue to be fooled into supporting those who are responsible for the death and injury of more than 30 thousand of our young men and the death and injury of more that a quarter million Iraqis.”

“You sound negative today Professor”

“Why not? Just think of the thousands of corporate executives earning millions of dollars, congressmen selling their souls to lobbyists and party hacks feeding the people a menu of lies and exaggerations. They could not care less while our government, that we hail so proudly, does nothing to even the odds between the destitute and the super rich or correcting a wrong Is this the kind of America we are leaving our children?”

“Professor, you don’t have any chidren”

By Mrs. Godzilla

October 18, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

5 Reasons Torture is Always Wrong

Once again, the evangelical magazine Christianity Today has spoken with a clear and prophetic voice which, hopefully, will not go unheard among its many readers who blindly support President Bush. The article details, from scripture and from common sense, 5 Reasons Torture is Always Wrong – and why there should be no exceptions.

It is tragic that such an article is needed in the first place, but many evangelical Christians support Bush and his policies of “enhanced interrogation techniques” (Republican doublespeak for torture), even though they clearly violate everything the Christian faith stands for.

Here are the 5 reasons, each of which is detailed in the article:

The article concludes:

It is past time for evangelical Christians to remind our government and our society of perennial moral values, which also happen to be international and domestic laws. As Christians, we care about moral values, and we vote on the basis of such values. We care deeply about human-rights violations around the world. Now it is time to raise our voice and say an unequivocal no to torture, a practice that has no place in our society and violates our most cherished moral convictions.

Read the article on the Christianity Today website.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

Mike 9:00,

He is posting under one name, Queen Yahoo, he just hasn’t embraced it yet. Sometimes they can’t come to grips with these things, so lighten up on Queenie it’s not just the name he has to deal with, Yahoo’s value is dropping like a stone too.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

GOP Family Values: “FOUR MORE WARS!”

By Shawny

October 18, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

King George Starves the Elderly, Less of an increase <> reduction. Ever had a year when you got less of a raise than the previous year?

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Even considering the use of torture on prisoners damages America far worse than any terrorist attack could.

The witless “wisdom” of Brainless Curtis^^,

Despicable does not begin to describe this post.

1) We do not policy to “torture” prisoners.

2) If you think the well-being of these Islamofanatics is more important than the lives of Americans here and on the battlefield then you just may deserve to be in Gitmo.

Don’t worry, you’ll be well fed.

By Here's the Link

October 18, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

5 Reasons Torture is Always Wrong, Christianity Today 2/1/06

By N-GA

October 18, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

Of all the things this administration has done badly, this might be the worst. Our country has always been admired for its policies regarding civil liberties. It took just one president and a bunch of pu$$y congressmen to change that. And OBL is LOL about it…and you wing-nuts are simply too stupid to understand that…Osama is laughing at you. What a bunch of maroons!!

IMPEACH BUSH!!!

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Waaaaaaaaah!!!Torture violates the dignity of the human being. Torture mistreats the vulnerable and violates the demands of justice. Authorizing torture trusts government too much. Torture dehumanizes the torturer. Torture erodes the character of the nation that tortures.

Mrs. Whiney Behiney Godzilla,

We do not torture. However, I’d very much like to know what “dignity” do Islamofanatics have? How are they “vulnerable”? How do you “dehumanize” someone who is subhuman?

I’m curious as to where you and your bleeding heart comrades stand on partial birth abortion.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Buy Danish,

I think that the Brainless Curtis’ and Mrs. G’s of the world think giving out low fat falafels is torture, God forbid you also ask a question. They will also be the first two people screaming, “why didn’t you do something to stop it” when the next successful attack occurs.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Mrs. Godzilla at 9:07 (a most interesting nom de plume, by the way): a philosophically consistent view which takes the desired conduct from theory to practice. However, the devil, they say, is in the details.

Much of what Congress (and the military) have grappled with is the definition of “torture.” Rather like defining “rich.” So, to get to specifics, what many seem to refer to in defining “torture” is what others refer to as “coerced interrogation,” specifically waterboarding, wherein a person has a towel placed over their face, water poured on, sensation is similar to drowning.

If you think that’s torture, fine, If you don’t fine, too. But there are implications. Brian Ross, ABC news, did quite a review of the “torture” issue. Quickly here, said where other techniques (friendly interrogation, reasonable questions, cold rooms, music by Red Hot Chili Peppers) did not work, waterboarding did when used in cases where the terrorists were known to have specific information. Most lasted no more than 30 seconds. Khalid Sheik Mohammed (who planned 9-11) lasted seconds longer, then gave up information which led to 12 other terrorists. (To see his fanaticism and lack of empathy, when he was told if he didn’t cooperate his family would be killed, he replied “fine” - they will get to Paradise sooner). So the point is, this coerced interrogation technique worked.

Is it too bad it was the only technique that worked? Yes. But work it did. And after the terrorists dried off, more Americans lived. And I have yet to hear a workable alternative.

By King George Destroys Yahoo

October 18, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

By RW-(the original) October 18, 2006 09:11 AM: Yahoo’s value is dropping like a stone

Must be a sign of the ‘robust economy’ that King George apologists try to ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’ about ! ! !

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this

Another pathetic cartoon. Luckovich portrays his anti-American, dishonest view of the country that provides him freedom and protection. Is this the only way he can get attention?

I can only think of the American soldiers on Iwo Jima who laid their lives on the line for their country in WWII and wanted the world to know how proud they were. Post the flag of the USA on a mountain top to show their love for this country.

Luckovich, on the other hand, wants the world to know that he thinks Uncle Sam is beaten, defeated and really not worth fighting for. I have no respect for him or those that support his virulent disposition of this country. His “patriotism” is the passport for terrorist invaders who are eager to attack us. I reject them and him.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

RW,

I would like to hear their brilliant strategy as to how we get info from captured IslmoKillers who have details of imminent attacks.

I mean if low-fat falafels fails to do the trick.

By Yahooligan

October 18, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

In all seriousness, the Geneva Convention pertains to SOLDIERS engaged in combat. When terrorists choose to engage in combat outside the umbrella of state sponsorship, they are not soldiers and the Geneva Convention is not germaine. Bring out the cattle prods ! ! !

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

The Neo-Con trolls here want to believe that their guy Dubya will allow torture only for “terrorists” — what about all those who were detained and tortured, and then released because they were not “terrorists”?

17 Falsely Accused Guantanamo Detainees Returned to Afghanistan

If you trolls can’t see how this administration is the biggest threat to Americans’ peace and security, I have some beachfront property to sell you in Nebraska.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Queen Yahoo,

Have you checked out Dow 12,000 this morning? Housing starts are up! Oh no where’s that bubble? Corporate earnings are up! Screw those companies, but give me a job whaaaahhhh!!!

Freaking loser.

Buy Danish,

I think you’ve hit on something. If we use female interrogators they can drill a hole in the back of the terrorists heads and start sucking out their brains. Then it won’t be torture, it will be a woman’s right to choose.

By Blog Dawg

October 18, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

I’m in a self reflective mood, and I’m trying to figure out why I ended up like I did. So I looked at myself close up in the mirror for a long time. I saw my dad’s face. He sure did look funny with a joint hanging from his lips.

Similarly, the GOP elephant is trying to figure out why it’s ended up the way it has. So it looks at itself closely in the mirror for a long time. It sees Uncle Sam. Uncle Sam sure does look funny in lace leiderhosen mit der page-blitzen uber brazier!.

Who would have thunk that the GOP would be the gay ones? Repress sexuality with religion and you get bi-pedaphilism, tri-sexuality, and quint-quadruple girlie-manism.

Foley is writing his memoirs, entitled, “Pages in Panties: how I text messaged my wet spots”.

Hastert promised to buy multiple copies to help it get on the NYT bestblower list.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

Once you get past the anti-American message the scribbler is trying to portray it’s not such a bad cartoon. It clearly displays the self flagellation of American liberals and even takes into account their fascination with mirrors.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Yahooligan: good for a laugh, but a bit extreme, don’t you think? This discussion may be far more productive if realistic solutions are offered. For example, N-GA (not to put words in your mouth or misinterpret) stated our country has always been admired for its policies regarding civil liberties, a view held by many. However, others do not view this as a “civil liberties” issue but a warfighting issue governed by other standards. That’s the theory.

It would be interesting to hear how those opposed to the Military Commissions Act would handle, process, try and treat jihadists. If you want to recite the Democratic alternative bill, fine, but please discuss the implications.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Former US Secy. Of State James Baker: Iraq Is A “Helluva Mess”

Had enough indeed.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Gee, Mike, are you saying that it’s only bad when Liberals post under more than one name?

Republicans can do it all they want and when they want, is that the ticket?

Never seen you crack on Andy, and he practices it at least 40 times a day.

What makes Texican or anyone else you’ve decided to attack so special?

By Blog Dawg

October 18, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

It’s a WAR on terror, sir. Thus bush has labeled terrorists as combatants. Either you support your halfwitted president, or you’re a terrorist. You need to be exterminated if you choose al queda, sir. That’s the way Cheney sees it, and that’s will be your epitaph!!!!

Join the party of reason and justice. Joint the Democrats.

Impeach bush now! Avoid the november rush.

Otherwise, you, sir, are the enemy. Walk softly boys……..

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

A federal judge in Houston yesterday wiped away the fraud and conspiracy conviction of Kenneth L. Lay, the Enron Corp. founder who died of heart disease in July, bowing to decades of legal precedent but frustrating government attempts to seize nearly $44 million from his family

Another “activist judge” setting a bad example for all the Neo-cons who may be contemplating suicide instead of going to jail (Abramoff, Cunningham, Ney, Safavian, DeLay, Libby, and on, and on…)

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

RW,

That sounds like a good plan to me!

I anticipate deafening silence from the pseudo-humanitarians as their response to this thorny dilemna of making excuses for PBA while caterwauling about “torture”.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

U.S. military says 10 troops killed in Iraq.

Freaking waste.

By Yahooligan

October 18, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

RW- Have you checked the national debt today? America’s prosperity like any other entity can best be gauged by subtracting what you OWE from your net worth.

National Debt= $8,540,121,385,914.29

The estimated population of the United States is 300,008,553 so each citizen’s share of this debt is $28,466.26.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.59 billion per day since September 30, 2005!

Still want to talk about economic ‘prosperity’ ? ? ?

By getalife

October 18, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Today, 135 years to the day after the last American President (Ulysses S. Grant) suspended habeas corpus, President Bush signed into law the Military Commissions Act of 2006. At its worst, the legislation allows President Bush or Donald Rumsfeld to declare anyone — US citizen or not — an enemy combatant, lock them up and throw away the key without a chance to prove their innocence in a court of law. In other words, every thing the Founding Fathers fought the British empire to free themselves of was reversed and nullified with the stroke of a pen, all under the guise of the War on Terror.

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Blog Dawg,

You’ve already been over to Wooten’s frothing at the mouth about the USA. Too bad you didn’t get your rabies shots. Too late now.

Did you say “join the Democratic Party of treason and injustice”? Well, I wouldn’t go that far. In the meantime, try to get over your football loss. That has upset you. American citizens are not your enemy. Did you forget that YOU are an American?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Goldie,

I’m sure you think that’s judicial activism but it’s simply the rule of law and one I would expect liberals to be all for. What is it with the left’s blood lust?

Maybe you can go dig up his body and drag him through the streets at your next “I hate America” parade.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

getalife at 10:03 - that quote (lock them up, throw away the key, US citizen or not) was widely shown yesterday - young female human rights activist spokesperson - and on the analysis portion was quickly dismissed as nonsensical hyperbole.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

Queen Yahoo,

I bet you’re one of those clowns that think we had no national debt when Billy Jeff was in office and probably doesn’t understand that every time someone buys a bond as an investment that becomes a part of the “debt.”

The economy is roaring and if you choose to sit on the sidelines whining it’s your loss.

By @@

October 18, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

ml: I would have thought that you being an artsy fartsy type, you would have swung with your left. You know…..the right brain/left brain thingy.

But it is a mirror image he’s looking at, so I’ll take it to mean you’re just confused as usual.

Did you know that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a lefty too? Well of course you did. You guys share crayons. That’s so sweet.

By IMPEACH CHIMPY

October 18, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Dick “Last Throes” Cheney told Limbaugh that we were doing “remarkably well” in Iraq. Then I hear on ABC News (and several other news outlets) that October has been the deadliest month for our troops. Hmmm who to believe?

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Paul,

You got that right. But telling Getalife that one of his typical statements is “quickly dismissed as nonsensical hyperbole” is like telling the wind that it is windy.

Getalife is just trying to get a little “energy” from his useless “windmill”.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Impeach Chimpy at 10:15 - normally I wouldn’t even bother - but a variation of that theme gets repeated quite often here, so - casualty counts are not a “measure of progress” - either one’s own or the enemy’s.

By Yahooligan

October 18, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

RW- I’m not a Billy Jeff fan but you have to give him his due. He remains the only President in modern times to have actually paid DOWN the national debt. Remember those stand-offs when Gingrich finally caved in to Clinton’s demands to avoid another government shut-down?

Point is that the economy is ‘roaring’ on borrowed war-bucks that someone will have to eventually pay. Yes the interest on those bonds will have to be paid out to investors, too. You might want to ignore the dictum that your worth is equal to what you OWN minus what you OWE but the American electorate knows better ! ! !

By getalife

October 18, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Yes, and Peter King (R-NY) said Baghdad was like Manhattan.

I think Peter and Cheney should walk the streets of Baghdad to talk to the locals on camera since it is going so well over there.

Insane in the membrane.

By Blog Dawg

October 18, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Yeah, things are great. The Nasdaq is only down 50% in seven years!!!

We’re only involved in a financial quagmire in Iraq.

Here’s the Iraq war in one sentence: Cheney is driving a haliburton cement truck to pour a foundation to replace the Baghdad hospital that Bush blew up but there are IEDs in the way and he needs RW to walk in front of the truck to detonate the explosives so the truck can get through.

See? RW does wear a helmet. bwa.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Queenie,

The 1990’s economy was a house of cards as evidenced by the fact that Clinton left the country in a recession. The economy today is on solid footing based on booming business growth, not “borrowed war bucks,” again you can choose to whine, I don’t really care, it’s YOUR loss.

By Blog Dawg

October 18, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

W looked in the mirror and saw his dad. His dad sure looks funny as a wartime deserter traitor coward, instead of the war hero he truly was.

The virtues of the fathers become the sins of the sons.

Oh, the irony. Oh the paradox. (That reminds me I need a second opinion on my recent medical diagnosis).

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

In your face:

White House political strategist Karl Rove yesterday confidently predicted that the Republican Party would hold the House and the Senate in next month’s elections, dismissing fallout from the sex scandal involving former Rep. Mark Foley.-WashingtonTimes

Cut

But my colleagues and I believe that endorsements of political candidates are as necessary as ever —- QueenPinkoAtlantaUrinal

So do I, Cynthia, because whoever you and the AJC endorse, I vote across the board for their opponents.

If you ever wanted to get my vote just endorse the Republicans, I’ll vote democrat.

Cut

Well dream no more, friend, because today I am going to let you in on one of the great secrets of American business (and the mainstream media): The Harry Reid Do-Nothing Miracle Investment System! Through this system, you can sit back and watch the cash roll in from questionable desert real estate investments with the sort of reliability that only government can provide. The system is as simple as it is hidden through shell corporations, nepotism and political contributions. Yes, there are just three easy steps to mogul-like millions in Las Vegas real estate:-TownHall

Cut

On the other hand, it’s hard to find practicing Christians or other devout believers who can staunchly support key liberal positions on abortion, euthanasia and the homosexual agenda. Most who continue to vote Democratic simply ignore this and pull the lever out of habit. But there are many, many who cannot and will not, and it’s not hard to see why.-AmericanSpectator

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Here are some tell-tale signs of the sort of person who would vote (or not vote) to cause the election of a party which would act to defeat every value and interest he holds dear (merely because the party that will at least try to advance most of those issues has not done as well as he might have hoped): 1) When offered by a car dealer 25 percent off on a car, he insists on paying the full factory recommended retail sticker price — because he is damned if he will accept 25 percent when he deserves 30 percent off.-WashingtonTimes

Cut

If Mr. Foley’s disgrace brings about some kind of national debate about whether it’s legitimate or ethical for commerce and culture to be so largely about merchandising sex to young people and merchandising young people as sexually alluring, it might have served some useful purpose. As it stands, the culture is selling an entire nation on pedophilia and sexualizing children at an explosively early age. It’s long past time something was done to discuss whether this is where we want to go as a nation and a people.-AmericanSpectator

Cut

Today’s cartoon that doesn’t suck!

By Paul

October 18, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Well, not much progress on the issues so far. Anyone care to comment on (take your pick - “Senator Clinton” or “Hillary” if you’re into the one-word name celebrity thing) wearing a glittery cross outside her black dress during her Daily Mail interview? Spokespersons said,hey, she wears crosses all the time!

So, what will attract evangelical parties to Sen Clinton other than symbolism? Or, is she after a different group?

By RW unplugged........ew

October 18, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

RW doesn’t understand politics or war. He thinks that Bush will reward him for his unwaivering support of failed policies. WRONG! W will see you as cannon fodder, and canon kindling, and support Foley as he text messages your son.

WAKE UP, RW!! Repudlickans are sellouts. Criminals. Traitors. Liars. Thiefs. Page abusers. PIRATES!!!!!

Join the democrats, RW. Take my hand. I am your link to the founding fathers. Join me, RW. Join the justice force.

The only thing that can save the GOP is Diebold, however, when that happens, and everyone realizes that nobody voted for the GOP, there will be big changes fast here.. ..

Our long national nightmare will soon be over. There’s nothing that can save the Repudlickan page homo-eroticizers now.

By IMPEACH CHIMPY

October 18, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

“normally I wouldn’t even bother…” Boy aren’t I fortunate that you bothered to respond to little ‘ol me. No matter how you “measure” it Iraq is a failure. The fact that we have casualty counts at all is a disgrace since we have no good reason to lose our troops in Iraq in the first place.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

RW: Queen Yahoo is 1) trying to tell everyone that it is a financial failure, probably some pinko on welfare with maxed out credit cards 2) is spiteful of successful people that get out of bed everyday and earn money/ get rich in this roaring economy.

Queenie is a perfect poster child for the democrat party, constantly whining, has NEVER offered any solutions to any problems, just a Yahoo cut and paster, that can’t even comprehend what they post.

I don’t want these people running the government.

Does anyone else?

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Blog Dawg,

I see that you are still barking and drooling in your rejoicing over “How to make America look bad”. Why don’t you leave that to Luckovich? He gets paid to make our country look bad.

Just leave it to him. He does enough bashing of the country without you also helping our enemies.

By RW unplugged........ew

October 18, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Andy, when you text message underage children, do you condense the material or do you torture them with long manifesto style emails like your comments here? You truly are the unifondler.

ANd for the last time, there’s not one person dumb enough to read your blogs, or click on the links.

VIRUS ALERT! ANDY’S LINKS MAY HAVE VIRUSES, AND YOUR NEW DELL WILL BE TOAST IF YOU CLICK ON ANYTHING THAT CRIMINAL POSTS.

Andy is the mutant who always puts, “CUT” between his paragraphs. DO NOT CLICK ON HIS LINKS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

Besides, he posts the same exact chin drippings every day. Go back in the archives. Look at an andy post from July. Ditto Ditto Ditto same .

You dont have to read Andy. You know what he’s going to say: nothing.

This has been a paid announcement brought to you by the helmet challenged short bus truant officer society. Our motto: “We’ll round em up, but you gotta lobotomize them sooner or later or we’re quitting.”

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

RW,

OT to the topic of funerals, there was an interview on Fox and Friends this morning with Melanie Morgan and Catherine Moy, authors of American Mourning

By tracking FEC contributions, Melanie Morgan discovered that John Kerry and Michael Moore were sending Democrat operatives to the funerals of soldiers who were killed in Iraq to recruit the moms in mourning for Kerry’s campaign. That’s how they “found” Cindy Sheehan.

To Democrats funerals are nothing more that political recruiting stations.

By IMPEACH CHIMPY

October 18, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

Quick - somebody name ONE THING that is going “remarkably well” in Iraq. Not their own government (Bush wants to replace it already after Iraqis went to all the trouble to get ink on their fingers). Not the infrastructure (Haliburton and it’s subsidiaries are sucking up too much of the $ that should’ve been used for that purpose). Not decreasing the number of troops (in 2003 Cheney said we’d only have 30,000 troops there by the end of the year). Not the safety of Iraqi citizens (EVERY DAY there are tortured bodies found all over Baghdad). Not the end of the occupation (the generals have said that we will maintian at least 140,000 troops until 2010).

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

{{So, what will attract evangelical parties to Sen Clinton other than symbolism?}}

Paul, why don’t you first tell us what attracts” evangelicals to Dubya other than symbolism? What has Dubya done to promote Jesus’ teachings — is it the “first-strike” option of war on an unarmed country, or is it the torture of detainees who are found to be innocent of all charges? I guess I missed out on those Sunday school lessons when those topics were covered…

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Andy,

Thanks for the links. I have opened them all and my computer is working splendidly.

Polly Prepuce, the Pathetic censor from Pravda, needs a one way ticket to the Havana or some place where his “writing style” will be appreciated by the ignorant masses.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Impeach Chimpy at 10:50 - wasn’t referring to little ol’ you - was referring to comments that, on the surface, sound good (talking points, sound bites, etc) but upon further thought are quite vapid.

You are really serious that “no matter how you ‘measure’ it Iraq is a failure”? Really? You can’t think of any possible benefits that would accrue to having a parlimentarian/representative government in the middle east? None? (Notice I did not say “democratic” nor did I go rehash how we got involved or the current situation, other than the “no matter how you measure it” standard).

By RW unplugged........ew

October 18, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Impeach Bush now! Avoid the November Rush Limpbowell.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

If anyone one ever wondered what happen to Mark Foley, what caused him to be a homosexual, just look at this:

By RW unplugged……..ew October 18, 2006 10:48 AM Take my hand. I am your link to the founding fathers. Join me, RW. Join the justice force.

He fell for that sh-it.

A democrat said trust me, every one is queer, and so Mark lost his soul.

So sad.

Don’t listen to them and you won’t lust after children either.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

Statement of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold On the President Signing the Military Commissions Act October 17, 2006

“The legislation signed by the President today violates basic principles and values of our constitutional system of government. It allows the government to seize individuals on American soil and detain them indefinitely with no opportunity to challenge their detention in court. And the new law would permit an individual to be convicted on the basis of coerced testimony and even allow someone convicted under these rules to be put to death.

The checks and balances of our system of government and the fundamental fairness of the American people and legal system are among our greatest strengths in the fight against terrorism. I am deeply disappointed that Congress enacted this law. We will look back on this day as a stain on our nation’s history.”

Feingold/Murtha 08!

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Impeach Chimpy at 10:59 - well, how about imams in Ramadi and elsewhere (primarily Sunni but some Shia) banding together to expel ‘foreign terrorists’? Implications for moderate Muslims taking action against jihadists, even on a local level, are quite large, wouldn’t you agree?

C’mon - admitting one good thing doesn’t mean you have to give up on your central thesis.

By Goofy Liberal

October 18, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Well, just look at this mess that the Luckovich blog has become. All these Conservatives talking about America is great, what a load!! We can’t have this!!

What to do, what to do? I’m a mental midget, I can’t debate them, what to do. what to do?

Besides liberalism sucks, it’s a fat load of sh-it, hypocrisy two faced crap, so I have to make up names to hide it, like a “right to privacy.”

I know what I can do!

Censor them!

Listen up everybody, don’t click on their links, don’t click on their links, we don’t want you to hear that America is good, I mean you’ll get a virus!

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Buy Danish,

They were on Hannity & Colmes the other night and Alan had his panties in a bunch. Apparently Mama Moonbat has quite the fascination with online porn and he didn’t think it should be pointed out that she wasn’t pure as the wind driven snow.

Democrats love to use the bodies of our brave soldiers for their political gain. Sick bastards, just look at all the cheering of deaths here.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

getalife,

Won’t that traitor Mothra be about 97 in 2008?

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Getalife,

Yeah, like being nice to terrorists, and using our “legal system” worked really well in the past.

Isn’t Lynne Stewart walking out a free hag in 28 months thanks to a Clinton Judicial appointee and some funding from George Soros?

Get a freaking clue, and do tell us where you stand on Partial Birth Abortion.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Good morning, Goldie! This is only my read on the situation, since I’m not a member of the group in question. I think fundamentalist/evangelical Christians initially felt heartfelt values under assault and the only option open was to a party with a self-identified Christian. I think when they looked at the Democratic party (maybe not mainstream, but certainly the power brokers or special interests - gay rights and abortion) they found either indifference or outright hostility. So they went with the Republican Party.

You really don’t want to get into the first-strike religious basis in Judeo-Christian history, do you? You may want to skim Joshua before you respond. Usually I don’t do a point-by-point, but you really aren’t asserting that the under-the-radar disgraceful renegades who are in prison for their part in Abu Ghraib were evangelical Christians, are you?

An interesting question, though. How do you think a religious person should conduct a war? Cheers -

By News You Can Use

October 18, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

After interviewing some 40 former congressional pages, FBI agents have yet to turn up any evidence of direct sexual contact between underage pages and former Congressman Mark Foley.

Hint: For all of you who aren’t mental cripples, you can check the origin of a link by rolling your cursor over it and the url address will show in somewhere in your browser window.

If you think ABC, where this link^^ originates, puts viruses on their websites than you are an idiot like “Political Foreskin” is.

This is also why I have never opened one of Midori’s links or read any post that has “Yahoo” as an address.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I wish RE would return and try to exercise some sort of civility here again.

And just look at who the name callers are.

Must have killed you yesterday to try to put a lid on it.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

getalife at 11:07: I have to disagree with Sen Feingold on this. While it is correct the government can “seize individuals on American soil and detain them” - I think this is essential. If Sen F would have said “the gov’t can seize Americans on American soil…” he would have been mocked. But - he left the impression there. If he would have said “the gov’t can seize foreigners, jihadists in the act of planning, organizing and conducting terrorist attacks against Americans on American soil” most Americans would have said, great!

I’m not sure if Sen F really thinks terrorists operating on American soild should be Mirandized and accorded all the civil protections Americans are, or if he’s just playing to an audience to further his political career.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

RW,

Didn’t N-GA say something about “twisting in the wind” yesterday?

Here is a transcript of Senators Feingold and other pseudo-humanitarians twisting on the Senate Floor on subject of Partial Birth Abortion.

Sen. Santorum does a great job of “piercing” through the hypocrisy (if I might borrow a word that describes the PBA procedure).

Sen. Feingold, the greatest advocate an IslamoFanatic could ask for, got so flustered he had to leave the room.

Let’s get these procedures started in Gitmo now!

By Dubya

October 18, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Jus a reminder. Mishun complished! Yore alcoholic pathologically lying Prezdunt has spreed thee area with my kinda deemocrucy at point of bayonet. See how feerful them Eye Rockies r of us. r mightee armies. Newz is good. Dam, Laura, pore me nuther draink - hits almost noon. God Bless thee U nited States o Murcuh. n praise Jesuss!

By Brian Curtis

October 18, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

By making Bush look bad, Luckovich helps America look good. Because it reminds the world (and us) that “Bush” and “America” aren’t the same thing; in fact, they’re opposites.

The pro-torture crowd needs to go ahead and admit they’re beaten; the terrorists have successfully frightened them into submission, to the point that they’d gladly sacrifice our values and principles (and freedoms) to feel SAFER.

Fortunately, there’s still plenty of real Americans who know better and who aren’t willing to cower under our desks hoping Daddy-Traitor Bush will protect us.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

Yes, Andy — Human Events, American Spectator and Newsmax are so, so, so very much more credible than Yahoo/AP/etc.

That ABC news link is the first credible link I’ve seen you post.

congratulations.

perhaps you got a virus clinking on one of your own links and have learned a lesson, no?

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

{{I think fundamentalist/evangelical Christians initially felt heartfelt values under assault and the only option open was to a party with a self-identified Christian.}}

You’ll need to dig a little deeper than that, Paul — both Al Gore and John Kerry were also “self-identified” Christians. You see, not all Christians automatically believe in the theocratic doctrine promoted by the “evangelicals”… instead there are many, many believers who take Jesus’ words for what He said, such as:

“Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God” and “love thy neighbor” and “judge not, lest ye be judged”, and all of the other liberal and radical ideas that He shared with the world. Too bad there’s so many calling themselves Christian who don’t really believe in what Jesus had to say.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

Here’s a good link for you, Andy

By Midori

October 18, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Here’s another link for you, Andy. Look Ma, no Yahoo

By getalife

October 18, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Paul,

Senator Feingold voted against the Iraq war and the patriot act.

I think I will go with his professional opinion on these matters instead of a anonymous blogger’s opinion.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

BD,

When the Dems win next month, your IP address will show you as a enemy to our Constitution.

Be careful what you wish for.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

getalife,

How vacant can you be to have to wait and see what Feingold has to say before you know whether puncturing the skull of a full term baby and sucking it’s brain out is right or wrong?

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Goldie - I’ll dig a bit deeper (some have asked me to shorten my responses): Gore and Kerry were, true, but I do not think members of the fundamentalist/evangelical community felt the Democratic Party welcomed opposing views and in fact, were hostile to contradicting views (similar to the JC Watts experience). If Gore or, later, Kerry, would have said to the power structure “look, there’s room for more than one viewpoint here” the result could have been different. But that did not happen.

I really don’t want to get into a scripture toss here. Suffice it to say there are a group of Christians who take a quite pacifistic stance in the face of evil - which is their right. There are others who believe in self-defense - rather a variation of the Dukakis question - on a personal, not national level - if you saw your wife (or daughter or granddaughter) being raped, would you turn the other cheek? Serious question - but the challenge for many Christians (particularly members of the military) is - how does one conduct the horrible business of warfare in a way that doesn’t victimize the innocent or dehumanize the participant?

I’m off for a bit of lunch - later.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

Goldie quoting scripture, huh:

By Goldie October 18, 2006 11:36 AM “Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God”

Let’s just feed that into google and see if there just might be some talking points behind this, surely she hasn’t read the Bible:

The Warmonger’s Beatitudes The tragic waste of American lives in Iraq (the death count is now up to 1,601) has caused support for Bush’s war to decline. Evangelical Christian support for the war also appears to be waning. Unfortunately, however, it is generally not out of principle, but only because the war is going so badly. Thus, many Christians who now oppose the war in Iraq are still warmongers at heart. The Beatitudes found at the opening of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:3–12 have been a source of inspiration to Christians for centuries:

Sure enough, a easy to use pre compiled list of Bible quotes, probably put together with Hillary’s campaign in mind, ready for any two faced liberal that wants to wag their finger at you.

Don’t you pinkos hate when this happens?

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

Brian Curtis,

Still trying to separate President Bush from the USA? Would you mind telling us the name of the country where George W. Bush is president? I would be interested to know beacause I voted for him two times and I would like to know your secret information about the country of my voting?

Why don’t you stop the fiction and just say that you don’t LIKE the president and you don’t like his politics because they are not yours. That would show a little honesty instead of trying to criminalize the president elected by the citizens of this country.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

getalife at 11:44: you may want to guard against judging an idea by the professional or social position of the messenger, rather than by the merits of the message.

Or, as might be referenced by the earlier discussion with Goldie:

“Why should we pay attention to this guy? For pete’s sake, he’s from Nazareth and he’s a carpenter! What does he know about these things?!!?”

By Paul

October 18, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

Getalife at 11:42 - that statement also illustrates the “appeal to authority when valid argument fails” fallacy.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Getalife,

Is that a threat?.

How very free speechy of you. Thanks for clarifying where YOU stand.

Goldie,

Can you find me a passage that says, “Blessed are the Partial Birth Abortionists, but those who play the Red Hot Chili Peppers to our sworn enemies shall rot in Hell”?

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Well, isn’t this nice:

In America, Wells’s onetime girlfriend, Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, argued that birth control was essential to stem the rising tide of the unfit. Leading feminists, Progressive economists and legal theorists shared a similar vision. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who concluded in the case of Buck v. Bell that the state had the power to forcibly sterilize “defectives,” believed that forced population control was at the very heart of Progressive reform.

It’s what the liberals want to do with all you red state “defectives.”

If you vote for them.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

Paul,

You think highly of yourself and your arguments.

When I see you post something of merit, I will let you know.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Andy, will you open this link? Look Ma, no Yahoo

By getalife

October 18, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

No threat BD.

Do not call the FBI like you normally do.

They have politicians to keep them busy for a very long time.

The torture bill should be returned to Congress by the Supreme Court because it is unconstitutional.

I find it amazing that you support fascism.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Midori,

Andy’s favorite neonut propaganda is the NRO.

That crap has warped his brain.

Well, what is left of it after the drug and alcohol abuse.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

getalife,

Should we be reading Jason Leoplod at truthout for the real story?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

When is Rove getting indicted again? (Midori, feel free to answer that too)

By Midori

October 18, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

nothing has been more obvious.

only the faithfully deranged would present that crap as “credible”.

Note how he has tried to pin the link/virus problem on me - after it was revealed that he and his seedy, unreliable sources are the culprits.

for some reason I am his favorite scapegoat. whenever he gets called on his disgusting behavior, he tries to pass it off on me - whether it be namejacking, etc.

One would think he would have found another target by now. Oh well, considering the source. I suppose he’s still looking for those WMD in Iraq, too.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Getalife Threatmaker,

What does my IP address have to do with legal procedures that are in place to appeal legislation?

What’s the matter - are you too impatient to be bothered with the Constitutional process?

Sounds like you’re the fascist to me.

By bon scott

October 18, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

I disagree, getalife,

Andy’s favorite cheat sheet is the Washington Times. It’s his own personal Yahoo. Nothing but selfrighteous neocon pap. Virus free, but still pap.

Although this story got my attention.

Puts a whole new spin on the definition of Human Resources Director.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

enjoy

:)

By Andy

October 18, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Political foreskin comments about Partisanship and the growing enmity between the parties.

“you know, there’s a lot of cats out there, man, and well, these cats think that bipartisanship…..let me start over. I know a lot of cats, and you know there’s a lot of cats out there, man, and most of the cats I know think that, well, you see there’s all these cats, man, and you dont know what it’s like…..I’M WIRED, MAN!!!

The AJC regretfully must cut this blogger off. He’s obviously completely insane and small children should not be exposed to him.

We now return you all to your hacked cliche comments you steal from hannity and rush or oreilly like the no talent bullies you all truly are….bwa.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

I wouldn’t mention “brains” if I were you.

There are too many babies who had their brains sucked out thanks to phony humanitarians like your hero Senator F.

By Andy

October 18, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Bon Scott, you couldn’t debug a virus if your skidmarks came with a rosetta stone. Recede, Rescind, and Recidivize, you tell-tale fart.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Danish-donut, why don’t you share with us the passages in the Bible that state that zygotes should be preserved over the life of the mother and those already born? And where it says that contraception is evil, like some of you so-called Christians think is the same as abortion? You’re so good at picking issues with no substance, other than “it’s on the talking points list”!

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

Midori,

The only link I’ve ever clicked on here with a virus bad enough for my virus protection software to alert me, was from you. That being said anybody browsing the web without constantly updated protection is far too stupid for anyone to be listening to.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Andy-Tax-ranter, no need to Google what Jesus had to say— you should look instead in the King James Bible, Matthew 5:1-13.

I realize this is far away from those Old Testament chapters you like to quote from, such as Leviticus and Romans with all of their hell-fire and condemnation for everyone who’s not men with power.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

You can’t puncture the skull of a zygote and suck it’s brains out, so why don’t you quit obfuscating and address the issue of partial birth abortion.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

You’re the one who brought up the Bible, not me. Do you support sucking out babies’ brains, or not?

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Danish-donut & RW, et al — do you support preserving the life of a zygote over the life of the mother, or not?

I support partial-birth abortion when it serves to protect the mother, just like I support removing a ruptured appendix when it serves to protect a man. They’re both SURGICAL procedures performed to save the life of the already-living, you Morons!

By getalife

October 18, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

RW,

No, keep reading Drudge about the Foley scandal is all a prank.

How is that working out for you?

Bwhahahaha!

BTW, you can stop with the abortion crap. Your party is blowing up children.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Goldie, Getalife and others,

Thank you for the opportunity to contrast YOUR side with OURS.

I don’t need “talking Points” or “The Bible” to figure out that there is something morally destitute about a political Party who promotes sucking out babies brains, but whine like a cat in heat if they imagine that the enemy are being mistreated in any way.

There is a real Freedom of Choice on Election Day, and anyone with a soul should be able to figure out which choice to make.

It’s not as if you haven’t had an opportunity to voice your opposition to this practice in the past. It’s not too late but NARAL does give a lot of money to the Dems, so it requires some sacrifice on your part.

In fact, I’ll be happy to prepare a letter for you to send to Senator F and others.

Let me know if you’d like some help.

By Even Blair Thinks Bush is an Idiot Now

October 18, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

LONDON - Britain will withdraw its troops progressively from Iraq, Prime Minister Tony Blair reiterated Wednesday, warning that they risked becoming a “provocation” if they failed to hand over to Iraq forces.- From the “Khaleej Times” (Iraq)

The Republicans must really be in trouble. Even Bush’s lapdog thinks that occupation troops in Iraq are a “provocation”, now.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

BD,

You support Foley child molestors and w blowing babies brains out.

Sick mofo.

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Goldilocks: Are you directing your comments to the finch/bon scott/andy troika or to Andy the Pinko Slayer?

There’s a big difference. I’m the one that informs, he’s the one that causes concern.

By Goldie October 18, 2006 12:45 PM I realize this is far away from those Old Testament chapters you like to quote from, such as Leviticus and Romans

That’s real nice, Bishop Goldilocks, but Romans is New Testament.

You mind if I ask what version of the Bible you’re reading?

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Goldie (former Zygote),

I wouldn’t be throwing the “moron” word around if I were you. It just serves to remind us that at least a moron has a brain.

Please explain to me how piercing the head of a partially delivered baby and sucking out its brain saves the life of a mother?

Next explain how this is an approved practice, but you want to have Bush impeached for interrogation techniques.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

getalife,

Please point to one time that I ever said the Foley situation was a prank or promoted the story on Drudge. Thank you in advance.

I know you don’t want to address partial birth abortion because your party and especially your favorite for the 2008 nomination promotes sucking the brains out of fully developed babies simply for the convenience of the mother.

Babies may die in war and we see that as a tragedy, but not a reason not to fight. Fighting will ultimately result in more lives being saved, whereas your policies promote death as a matter of course.

By They're Lovin Us Over There

October 18, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

BAGHDAD - American casualties in Iraq were mounting spectacularly Wednesday as the US-led coalition became increasingly caught up in a wave of violence threatening to tear the country apart.

Military statements confirmed at least 10 US soldiers were killed Tuesday, including four dead in a single roadside bomb attack on their vehicle, as the toll for the month hit 67, or almost four per day.

US spokesmen say the surge in casualties is partly to be blamed on a spike in violence during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, but the grim news will pile further pressure on the White House to change its strategy.

Multiple media reports suggested that a panel of experts set up by US President George W. Bush will soon recommend he abandon ambitious plans to build a secure democracy in Iraq and instead look for an exit strategy.

Also from the “Khaleej Times” (Iraq). Interesting to hear the Iraqi perspective on the American occupation of their country. Don’t these ungrateful cretins know that King George has ‘saved’ them ? ? ?

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

Danish-donut, you are so right — you have contrasted your beliefs here on the blog with mainstream Americans’ beliefs regarding war and preserving the lives of the already-born, and you need to believe that our souls won’t let us continue to support your chosen leaders who demanding that we get in lock-step with your fascist agenda.

By Soomebody's Gotta Be In Charge Since King George Can't Be Bothered

October 18, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

BAGHDAD - The US military on Wednesday released a senior aide to a pro-government Shia cleric and militia leader after the Iraqi government requested he be freed, the US military and the Iraqi government said on Wednesday.

Sheikh Mazin Al Saedi, an aide to radical cleric Moqtada Al Sadr, had been detained by US military forces during a raid on his Baghdad house on Tuesday along with four men.

“He has been released at the request of the government of Iraq,” Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Garver, a spokesman for the US military, told Reuters.

Now we know who is really in charge of our troops in Iraq and it ain’t King George ! ! !

By getalife

October 18, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

RW,

If you going to talk about babies getting their brains sucked out, you have to address babies getting their brains blown up.

Don’t be a hypocrite.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

I never knew not wanting to suck the brains out of a living baby made you a fascist. You learn something new every day around here.

When Goldie isn’t rearranging the books of the Bible she’s changing all historical perspectives and downplaying the hell that people went through actually living under real fascism.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

{{Babies may die in war and we see that as a tragedy, but not a reason not to fight.}}

So tell us, RW— how tragic is it when you start a war against an unarmed country and kill thousands of babies in the process of spreading your idea of democracy? It’s all just too bad that they were born in the wrong country, right? Oh, so that’s how it goes… only certain “babies” are the ones you and Danish are crying about — now I get it.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

What a great Day for America as we spread peace and prosperity around the world.

Our great leaders (that would be the President and Congress) have ruled that Torture — errr - Harsh Interrogation techniques is just A-OK for us to use on - well just anybody we choose. Of course I guess it will also be A-ok that we citizens not know that we use torture. Just ask John Snow - he says it’s alright to not inform americans of abuses. After all a secret society is tantamount to preserving democracy and freedom. Of course our soldiers and citizens must willfully submit to the same interrogations and extractions of our secrets as well when other coubtriues demand it.

Then there’s the New Arms Race and the soon to be Cold War. Yes our country has now brought back the good ol’ days of fear that we shall all be annihilated in a blinding flash of light and heat. Ahh the good ol’ 50’s and 60’s. A time of fun with atoms and hiding under school desk drills. Only this time instead of worrying about just the bad ol’ Ruskie’s and Chinese’ we have many more new nuclear friends that want to play toss the plutonium ball with us.

Of course the new cold war means that invading small sovereign countries could be a little more risky for us to do. We have to be well aware that when we invade that they may take out a major metropolis — ohh say like Atlanta - just for spite (and fun).

And it only took 6 years for the Republicans to make the world a safer place for everyone! Yay!`

So which little nuke rogue is going to toss the first ball? Batters up!~

Peace - through superior firepower!~ Gotta love it!

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

By Goldie October 18, 2006 01:00 PM Danish-donut & RW, et al — do you support preserving the life of a zygote over the life of the mother, or not?

Looks like Goldilocks the Bishop has been reading “Planned” “Parenthood” talking points also:

A retrospective study of abortion and maternal deaths in Minnesota during the period 1950-1965 is presented. Data from the Minnesota Maternal Mortality Study indicate that there were 658 maternal deaths and 1,301,745 live births. 21 of these deaths were due to criminal abortion.

So the unborn child took the mother’s life .00005% of the time BEFORE ABORTION WAS LEGAL.

It’s just like forcing incest rape victim’s to have their babies, it’s all a bunch of bullsh-it.

Liberals lie like rugs.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

Are you trying to say you are against abortion now with your 1:29?

When you so callously disregard the life of an infant I hardly take your faux concern for Iraqi children seriously. The fact that you want to drag their bodies through the street for your political opportunism is despicable.

It’s also a fact that if our soldiers didn’t go to such great lengths to prevent innocent death in the war zone many more of them would be alive today.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

Please see RW’s 1:14 to to Getalife.

As he said, babies sometimes die as a tragic consequence of war, and every death is regrettable. There is no reason for them to die as a tragic consequence of physician assisted homicide.

A baby whose head has emerged from the mother is “already born” as far as I’m concerned, and that belief is a lot more sustainable than the falsehood that piercing the skull with scissors and sucking out the brains from its emerged head magically saves the life and health of the mother.

By What the British Think

October 18, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

And here is what they are saying in “The Gaurdian” (Britain).

One of Britain’s most senior retired judges last night accused Tony Blair and his government of allowing themselves to become the “lapdog” of the Bush administration by abdicating Britain’s foreign policy role to the US.

Lord Steyn, who retired last year as a law lord and now chairs the council of the law reform group Justice, also questioned whether the British government could have been unaware of the US authorities’ practice of kidnapping suspects and sending them to other countries for possible torture.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

This discussion began over today’s “cartoon” and the issue of torture.

How can you support Senator F who supports the torture and murder of partially delivered American babies through the most brutal and inhumane means, yet wail about not treating Gitmo prisoners (or dead men walking) with kid gloves?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

I think I know what Thomas the Talk Engine really does for a living.

Next time you look at your spam folder take a look at one of the messages with thousands of random words that say absolutely nothing and see how Thomaslike they are.

By Brian Curtis

October 18, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Dusty, the point is that “Anti-Bush” is NOT the same as “Anti-American.” Far from it, in fact.

I know the right-wing radio types like to conflate the two, but it just doesn’t work. Someone who despises Bush and fights against every one of his policies is as much an American as one of his terrorized little cheerleaders—in fact, more so.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Personally, it’s none of my business, nor anyone else’s, if a woman chooses to have or abort a baby.

People need to stay out of other people’s bedrooms and wombs, IMHO.

Especially if those people are so gung ho about supporting pedophiles and bombing innocent LIVING children to smithereens.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

-=-

I am opposed to the act of abortion (especially un-nessecery abortions)

But! - Pro Choice must remain as the law.

To take away the choice of a very personal descision of any person (espcially a mother to be) and place it into the hands of the government is placing absolute authoirity of who lives and/or dies in the governments hands. It also sets a precedence for other laws to be passed that allow the government to control what we do with our own bodies both male and female.

(Get your brain chip now while they are on special. The law requires you have one!)

I especially oppose any law that would take away a mothers right of abortion should the birth endanger her life or risk physically harm to her. That type law again says the government controls her bodya and tells her she must sacrifice herself. With pro-choice she herself has the right and can decide whether to risk her own life and health for her child or to not!

Pro-Choice - definitly does not mean Pro-Abortion!

I know this from my own life’s experience of just such a life and death event. It was quite stressful for our entire family.

Thomas

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

The Repugnants’ obsession with s-e-x is neverending:

Sex talk dominates N.C. election debate

Thousands of our troops are maimed and dying in Iraq, and the Repugnants want to discuss the sex habits of their Dem opponents!

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Well, Thomas,

I see you are doing the liberal song and dance for the day. Since Foley is long gone and dismissed by Conservatives, you have to switch to torture for rabble rousing. Ho hum.

I believe that one has already been wrapped and delivered. So what’s a liberal to do? Rant on for six long paragraphs about the injustice of it all, i. e. liberals can’t win an election ‘cause they stand for nothing.

Maybe you can dig up something relevant to the UN. That’s kinda popular with liberals. Just run over there and give Kim Jong a big hug and the sun will start shining again. Nancy Pelosi is ready to help. Also other liberals such as Streisand, Sheehan and Fonda. You too, Brutom?

By bon scott

October 18, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

There’s something really shallow and sleazy about people who try to distort a political position into something it most definitely is not.

By Buy Danish - October 18, 2006 01:03 PM - I don’t need “talking Points” or “The Bible” to figure out that there is something morally destitute about a political Party who promotes sucking out babies brains

By RW-(the original) - October 18, 2006 01:14 PM - I know you don’t want to address partial birth abortion because your party and especially your favorite for the 2008 nomination promotes sucking the brains out of fully developed babies simply for the convenience of the mother.

Please direct me to a Democratic Party site, or the site of any Democratic office-holder or candidate where ANY kind of abortion (much less so called “partial birth” abortions) is PROMOTED.

Good luck. heh.

By Republicans Have Even Lost 'Larry the Cable Guy'

October 18, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

It’s daunting enough to make a jokey movie about the war in Iraq — harder still for a comedian who shares his fans with George W. Bush.

Larry the Cable Guy, the tinny-voiced comic with the Red State following and the “Git-R-Done” catchphrase, hopes his war spoof Delta Farce isn’t taken seriously — though it does reflect some of the changing public sentiment about the invasion. The movie is set for release next spring.

Wingnuts gotta know they’re toast when ‘Larry the Cable Guy’ starts makin fun of ‘em.

Git ‘er done, Larry ! ! !

By getalife

October 18, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Bi- granny,

I don’t give a damn about Gitmo prisoners unless they are innocent American citizens. The torture bill includes American citizens.

It has been reported, some were innocent and freed after years in prison. You trust our government, I do not.

It is amazing people still trust these criminals.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Midori,

We aren’t talking about choice, we are talking specifically about partial birth abortion where the child has fully developed and had it’s head punctured and it’s brains sucked out.

That is what you characterize as us interfering with some one’s womb. I know it’s hard to discuss it which is why every one of you liberals runs back to cell clusters and choice or the health of the mother etc. Tell us what you think about sucking a babies brains out. They don’t even use anything to relieve the pain in most cases, while they’re busy murdering the fully developed baby.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Midori (NARAL Parrot),

Thanks for making your position perfectly clear on the issue of Parial Birth Abortion.

Where do you stand on the treatment of enemy combatants again?

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

{The fact that you want to drag their bodies through the street for your political opportunism is despicable.}

RW— exactly who are you talking to? You’re coming off like a true madman with these kinds of rants. Please point us all to where I wrote about dragging bodies through the streets… you unemployed hypocrite.

Why do you and your ilk pretend to care about “babies” and then have no regard for those who have been bombed to smithereens, all for the political aspirations of your leader? What exactly was the point of choosing to invade and occupy Iraq, if it wasn’t to kill thousands of its citizens and force them into “regime change” because you no longer like their leader?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

Sybil bon finchie-word policeman,

Please allow me to revise and extend by changing “promotes” to “supports” in my remark TO GETALIFE.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Dusty -

I never supported what is happening in the Foley situation. As a matter of fact I clearly stated in my post(s) that I thought that the Foley affair was a waste of taxpayer money just as the waste spent on the Clinton BJ scandal. I despise when such small garbage is made into something soi huge when we have bigger and more important national events to worry about than who had sex with who!

So keep your delusions and fantasies to your self please!

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

By Midori October 18, 2006 01:50 PM People need to stay out of other people’s bedrooms

Unless, of course, it’s a Republican congressman who’s following the example and advice of democrats before him, then we fire up our hypocrite witch hunt.

By Republicans Have Even Lost Pat Buchanan

October 18, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Is the Bush Doctrine dead? By Pat Buchanan

Between Sept. 11, 2001, and his State of the Union Address in 2002, George W. Bush had America in the palm of his hand.

But in that speech, Bush blew it. Singling out Iran, Iraq and North Korea as state sponsors of terror seeking weapons of mass destruction, Bush yoked them together in an “axis of evil” and issued this ultimatum: “The United States of America will not permit the world’s most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world’s most destructive weapons.”

Neoconservatives celebrated this bellicosity as neo-Churchillian. Yet all it accomplished was to fracture the U.S. and foreign coalitions that had united behind Bush. As some of us wrote at the time, to call Iran and Iraq, mortal enemies in the eight-year war of the ’80s that took a million lives, an “axis” was absurd.

Bush’s speech was a blunder of the first magnitude. First, he had no authority to attack any of those nations, as Congress had not authorized war. Second, he had neither the plans nor forces in place to do so. Yet he had put all three on notice this was what he had in mind.

When the U.S. invaded Iraq, North Korea and Iran got the message. Both accelerated their nuclear programs. By issuing public ultimatums, Bush left these regimes no way out.

Now even super-conservative Pat Buchanan thinks Bush is an idiot ! ! !

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

The third paragraph in your 2:05 is a fine example of what you asked for in paragraph two. You sure don’t make it hard to find these things.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Sybil Bon Finchie (Useful Idiot),

No matter what words you use, they’re all euphemisms anyway.

To a committed NARAL supporter, “Choice” is a euphemism for “brain sucking”.

By Life in Iraq After Bush (No Wonder They Hate Us)

October 18, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

BAGHDAD, Iraq - For the first time in more than a month, 19-year-old Mustafa al-Adhami ventured out of his home recently in his hardscrabble neighborhood, looking for a haircut.

As he and a friend walked to a nearby barbershop in the predominantly Sunni section of western Baghdad, they came upon the corpse of a young man they later learned had been dumped on the street a few hours earlier.

He had planned to get married more than six months ago, but the lack of security has set his plans awry. Nazer decided to close his mobile-phone shop earlier this year after a series of bombings targeted the busy commercial strip where his shop was located.

The situation left him without steady income for several months, so he had to put off the wedding.

He recently landed a job with a wireless carrier, Iraqna, that will require constant travel to the fairly peaceful Kurdish north. He would like to relocate there, but such a move would be difficult for his fiance, who does not speak Kurdish.

Nazer said he and his fiance constantly talk about their future. They find it depressing that they must have those talks over the phone when they live only miles apart, he said.

“I have been engaged to her more than a year, but we’ve only been out together for lunch once in all that time,” Nazer said. “She is frustrated, and I am too. But she understands that there is nothing we can do with our lives in this situation.”

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Pat Buchanan sure took his sweet time critiquing the 2002 State of the Union address.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

{I know this from my own life’s experience of just such a life and death event. It was quite stressful for our entire family.}

Thank you, Thomas, for bringing the real human impact that an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy can have on a family. And I imagine it must have been awful before the 70’s to have to resort to the back-alley procedures before women were allowed to decide to handle the situation safely and privately. It’s a privacy issue that the government has no business being involved with — just like it has no business telling you men that you can’t have a vasectomy if you want to have one… the right-wingnuts always want to conflate the procedure of “partial-birth” abortions performed in dire emergencies with the need for women and their families to make their own decisions about their families’ lives.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

getalife,

You’re moving up in the world. Rush just mimicked you to a T on his show.

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

By Goldie October 18, 2006 02:05 PM Why do you and your ilk pretend to care about “babies” and then have no regard for those who have been bombed to smithereens,

Yep:

But the United States points the blame at Iraq which it says is still hiding chemical and biological weapons. Cohen told reporters, “Saddam Hussein is responsible for the deaths of the children. All he has to do and has had to do [is] stop impeding the U.N. inspectors and he would not be in the situation he is in today.” Cohen said the United States favors continuing the “oil-for-food” program under which Iraq can sell $2 billion worth of oil and use its share of the proceeds for food and medicine.

Goldilocks the Bishop, comparing the children killed by the same enemy the America is trying to eradicate with children killed by liberals stealing the food out of their mouths.

Goldi, are you just plain stupid or what?

By RE

October 18, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

RW, I guess that is part of the whole “history will judge this administration” thing. Pat has been right on in his writings, his actual apperances on TV show a different view.

The civility thing was a nice break yesterday

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Looks like Queen Yahoo is getting hysterical, no one is paying attention to it’s spam bullsh-it, so now this idiots gonna post whole entire articles out of desperation to be noticed.

What a loser.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Five months later, a bigger bombshell: Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, told American Medical News and the New York Times that he had “lied through [his] teeth” about partial-birth abortion. When Nightline interviewed him in November 1995, he had followed the party line: Partial-birth abortions were rare and performed only in extreme cases. In truth, he said, the vast majority were performed on healthy mothers with healthy babies. “The abortion rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so, probably, does everyone else.” He estimated that 3,000 to 5,000 were performed each year.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

RW and Danish-donut, why don’t you describe in gory detail all of the blood and guts that comes along with a heart transplant or an appendectomy or removing a tumor — all of which are surgical procedures used to save the life of the patient?

If you don’t like it that partial-birth abortions are only performed in dire circumstances to save the mother, why don’t you just come out and admit that you believe the unborn baby’s life is more important to save rather than the mother’s? What’s that all about, other than some ideology that you insist on clinging to? What’s the percentage of the procedure actually being performed — isn’t it something like 1%? That’s what you’re ranting on and on about? Geez, you idiots really need to find something to do with all of your free time…

By Dusty

October 18, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Well, Thomas,

Your peace through fire power at 1:29 was a simple salute to the Bush administration for making our country safe. Right? How could I have thought that it was anything more?

And not only that, it was so foolish to spend money on Clinton’s sex life and bald faced lies. Therefore Foley’s sexual stuff was a waste of time. Strange comparison that is.

But I am sorry that you have had sad distress in your family. I certainly don’t wish that on anyone. Too bad we can’t consider Americans as “one family”. I wish we could debate and not hate. It doesn’t seem possible anymore.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

We are discussing one form of abortion, and one form only - Partial Birth Abortion, and it is being discussed as a contrast to your comrades complaints about “torture”.

There is NEVER a medical reason to use this procedure and hundreds of doctors have testified to this fact (not that common sense isn’t enough evidence, but I digress).

C Sections can be performed in the DIRE EMERGENCIES that you mention. The problem is that you end up with a live baby at the end of the procedure, which can be inconvenient.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

These pathetic hypocrites want to tell us how to live our lives.

No freaking way.

Get out of our bedrooms perverts.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

getalife at 12:01 - is there something improper in thinking well of one’s convictions?

Got to thinking about this at lunch - if you agree with Sen Feingold’s position, fine. My point was justifying a viewpoint because someone else in a “position” espouses it. Isnt’ that what a number of Bush-bashers here decry - the view “well I support the President ‘cuz he’s the President?”

I see Sen F as one of the “fight terrorism with the same law enforcement tactics we use to fight organized crime or Enron executives” crowd. I think he’s wrong. I’ve listed my reasons.

BTW - many times I just ask questions - might be something I heard somewhere, just want to test the idea, given this forum has a number of people of varying positions.

Oh, and re: 2:04 - do you happen to have a reference for your assertion the bill, authorizing military tribunals, etc. applies to American citizens? I’ve not been able to find one, anywhere (I think a bill that stripped American citizens of basic constitutional protections would be a slam-dunk defeat before the Supreme Court - 9-0, I’d expect).

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

If you don’t like it that partial-birth abortions are only performed in dire circumstances to save the mother

Goldie,

You have been fed a Big Lie ^^^. Time to get angry at those Party faithful who have deceived you.

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 18, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

It appears as though the liberals career experiment as Baptist Preachers is officially over:

By getalife October 18, 2006 02:38 PM These pathetic hypocrites want to tell us how to live our lives. No freaking way. Get out of our bedrooms perverts.

I wonder if they’ll cut Foley some slack?

By bon scott

October 18, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

By Buy Danish - October 18, 2006 02:19 PM - No matter what words you use, they’re all euphemisms anyway. To a committed NARAL supporter, “Choice” is a euphemism for “brain sucking”.

To you, maybe. But not to the vast majority of Americans who want to make sure that abortions are, in the words of Bill Clinton, “Safe, legal and rare.”

I love quoting Clinton to wingnut whiners like you. heh.

In your truthiness world, “liberal” women relish pregnancy so they can experience the joys of abortion. And for the truly committed, a D&C just won’t do. They want the thrill of real invasive surgery and all it’s complications.

Right.

RW, this is an open forum. You are not the blog führer. If your thoughts are only for getalife, send him an email.

By getalife

October 18, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

I do not know Paul.

Read ther bill and tell me if Feinglod is lying about this:

“It allows the government to seize individuals on American soil and detain them indefinitely with no opportunity to challenge their detention in court,” Feingold said. “And the new law would permit an individual to be convicted on the basis of coerced testimony and even allow someone convicted under these rules to be put to death.”

I say, he is telling the truth but feel free to research the bill and let me know if he is lying.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Special Delivery to Goldie,

The claim that partialbirth abortions are used only or mostly in unusual medical circumstances was also disproved by reporters for the Hackensack (N.J.) Record and the Washington Post, among others. These reporters interviewed numerous abortionists, who readily acknowledged that they routinely use the method for purely elective abortions.

More truth to follow…

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

Look right above 2:36 for some reality to put with your “dire consequences” BS.

getalife,

I suspect that your bedroom is the last place anyone wants to be.

With apologies to Ryan Seacrest—RW out!

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

-=-

What a popoular England Tech Press thinks about “the subject” of todays ML toon.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/18/militarycommissionsa_go/

I’m sure many (allied) countries will also view this new bill as a threat to their citizens.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

When was the last time you heard of a “dire emergency” that took three days to resolve, when there was an alternative that could be done rapidly and spare the life of the mother and child?

Former surgeon general C. Everett Koop and more than 500 physicians who joined the Physicians’ Ad Hoc Coalition for Truth (PHACT)…have penned editorials and public statements to set the record straight. There is no medical necessity, no medical indication, for ever partially delivering a child and then killing the child.)

This, PHACT doctors have explained, is not an emergency procedure to save a mother’s life. Mechanical dilation of the cervix takes up to three days. That alone can cause cervical incompetence, a major threat to subsequent pregnancies, and infection, a leading cause of infertility. Turning the baby into a breech position, the forceps-aided breech delivery (abandoned as risky by the obstetrical community years ago), the possibility of producing shards of bone when stabbing the child’s head which can puncture the mother, all carry enormous risks: placental abruption, amniotic fluid embolism, cervical incompetence, uterine/vaginal laceration and hemorrhaging, most of which are potentially life-threatening.

I hope you’re good and angry about all the lies you’ve been fed.

My offer to write a letter to Sen. F for you still stands.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

getalife et al 2:54: as I wrote earlier, Sen F’s statement is true as far as it goes, but it is misleading. If you substitute “American citizens” for “individuals” then the statement is false. If you substitute “non-US citizen terrorist” then the statement is true.

The second part is not quite accurate - the tribunal system is a de facto way to challenge detention - though not in the civilian court system. If “coerced testimony” means non-Mirandized, given in response to environmental manipulation, then the statement is true. It also allows terrorists to be put to death. Such as Khalid Sheik Mohammed - planner of 9-11.

So that is why I said I thought Sen F was intentionally being misleading - or he truly believes non-citizen terrorists captured (on American territory or elsewhere) should be accorded the same constitutional rights accorded to US citizens.

By Huge

October 18, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

“…isn’t it something like 1%?”

Actually Goldie, try 0.17% for 2001. The latest info I could find.

Re the post of 2:11,

I don’t think Buchanan is a “super conservative”. Maybe a paleoconservative. Or just a plain old traditional conservative. He certainly seems repulsed by this new form called neo-conservatism, which is the hallmark of the current gop and it’s followers and which IMHO has sadly lost its way on many, many of the true American conservative ideals.

Another striking difference; he’s exceptionally smart. Something typically not found in or valued by many neo-con leaders.

To me this says a ton: Buchanan reluctantly endorsed Bush’s 2004 reelection, writing in The American Conservative that although he strongly disagrees with him on numerous issues, “Bush is right on taxes, judges, sovereignty, and values. Kerry is right on nothing.” He says both parties are now barely distinguishable. “The Republican Party in Washington D.C. today are the sort of people we went into politics to run out of town,” he told a public radio interviewer.

Besides, his wife Bay is cool, and one of an axceptionally few conservative women I like to listen to.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

RW— why don’t you provide a link to an article in the National Review that rants about how there’s 2 or 3 “scientists” who don’t believe global warming has been escalated by fossil-burning fuels? Or another one in the National Review that still claims the tobacco industry did not add chemicals to its cigarettes which causes higher addiction rates? Or the one where the NRA still claims “Guns don’t kill people”… what a load of propaganda in that rag!

By Brian Curtis

October 18, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

By the way… torture is un-American, and those who support it should renounce their citizenship immediately.

Whereupon they’ll be escorted to Gitmo without charges, counsel, or trial, to enjoy the treatment that other innocent people have enjoyed. But since you’re so convinced it’s a paradise hotel there, that shouldn’t bother you.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

RW, Danish-donut, Andy, etc. — another successful day of winning hearts and minds here on the blog, huh?

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Sybil Bon Fichie,

Special delivery for you.

How did it happen that falsehoods were allowed to flourish alongside of truth—and nearly choke it off—for decades, notwithstanding incontrovertible scientific evidence of the humanity of the unborn child?

[Feminist author Naomi Wolf takes to task the “pro-choice” movement for avoiding abortion reality in favor of euphemism-laden rhetoric. When their beliefs become entangled in “self-delusions, fibs and evasions,” she warns, they risk becoming “callous, selfish and casually destructive men and women who share a cheapened view of human life.”] (http://usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/97rlpwil.htm)

Sorry, but your “fringe element” excuse is not going to fly with this one. Even Naomi Wolfe agrees that you’ve been lied to with words that deliberately hide the truth.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this

Oh, even better RW— why not provide the link in the National Review where all the evidence of Saddam Hussein’s involvement in the 9/11 attacks is spelled out so succinctly… boy, I can’t wait to read that one!

By Paul

October 18, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis - to what, specifically, are you referring?

By Midori

October 18, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Huge,

Bay Buchanan is Pat’s sister, not his wife.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Paul —

This is probably the section that is of most concern when it comes to potential trial of US citzens under the new law, but proponents of the Bill say that this will not apply to US citizens.

But if the tribunals are secret - how would we know if it was abused?

And how could we possibly correct it if an innocent was tried and sentenced to death without Habeus Corpus, or any other protections?

Court system:

• Establishes a legal system to prosecute “unlawful enemy combatants.” An unlawful enemy combatant is defined as a person “who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents.”

Only time will tell - now!…

By Midori

October 18, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

HAHAHAHA

Goldie - good on you at 3:17.

I can’t wait to read that one myself. :)

By Huge

October 18, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

bon scott,

I’ve heard of (and even been shockingly and unceremoniously called!) blog nanny and blog police. But blog fuhrer - that’s funny!!

Goldie,

That silly phrase you refered to “Guns don’t kill people…” makes me laugh (in a twisted kind of way!)

I mean what the h&ll does that really say or mean?

It’s kinda like saying, “Cars, planes and boats don’t transport people. People transport people.”

Oh you gotta luv those crazy 2nd amendment fanatics! I swear some of them would like to ditch that pesky 1st one and just leave nine in the Bill of Rights!

By bon scott

October 18, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Goldie - I like it when the rabid wingnuts strut their stuff here. Their stupidity shines, much (I’m sure) to the enlightenment of every visitor to this blog.

It’s fun to counter the drivel they lift from the uber-right blogosphere with actual facts. Golly, that stumps ‘em every time.

Plus, they’re so CUTE when they get mad, self-righteous and defensive!!

By Huge

October 18, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this

Oops on the Bay mistake. I knew that but just forgot. Thanks, Midori. You da bombette!

Now I’ll get flamed by the neo-cons who’ll suggest I’m promoting marriage between siblings…

By Paul

October 18, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Thomas at 3:24: here’s a link to the Military Commissions Act of 2006:

Link: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109congbills&docid=f:s3930enr.txt.pdf

It’s the actual Act, not commentary, etc. Section 948D specifically states military commissions have jurisdiction over alien enemy combatants. They shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants.

So, in short, it does not apply to US citizens.

Regarding your secrecy concerns, section 948e requires reporting to Congress.

Habeas Corpus applies to constitutional protections - The act is replete with procedural protections -

Time will tell - I will lay odds the ACLU will be in the forefront of a challenge - and it will be expedited to the Supreme Court.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

Catching an IslamoKiller on American soil does not make the detainee an “AMERICAN CITIZEN”.

Why don’t YOU provide something to substantiate YOUR claims instead of sending the rest of us on a wild goose hunt?

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

Mein Danish’ of der’ Fuhrer.

You apparently have no problem with the GOVERNMENT being in legal control of the indiviual citizen and what they can or cannot do with their body.

So the Nazi death camps and ovens are just fine by you eh? And of course we must create the “Supermen” of the “Master Race!”. After all the Government must take presidence over it’s citizens in all affairs.

Yes! Lets pass a GOVERNMENT law that commands women what to do with their bodies. A law that grants NO CHOICE (and in many such laws - NO concessions). Laws that must be obeyed by a woman no matter what her individual personal life situation may be or what ever may befall her. It shall be decreed by law that you have NO CHOICE in what is done with or to your body.

Beyond all the statistics, and horror tear jerk images, it still comes down to “YOU” wanting to pass a law that forces another USA citizen to surrender “HER” rights to the Government’s will! You are imposing YOUR morals and BELIEFS on HER against HER will by passing an un-constitutional LAW that denies her, HER personal rights!

Heil Danish!~

“A Virtue is not really a Virtue if it is coerced or forced upon you, rather than you having done the Virtuous Deed willingly!”

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Sybil Bon Delusional,

Sorry that you and the rest of the Freshkids Team find the truth too difficult to contemplate, and your hypocrisy too embarrassing to acknowledge.

Just one more symptom of your freaking insanity.

Goldie,

I don’t expect to influence your cold, cold heart. I do hope that I have opened your eyes to the facts about the awful truth about the systematic torture and murder of babies for NO medical reason.

Have a clueless day.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Clueless Danish— once you proclaim your profound sadness for all of the lives wasted due to your guy W’s misadventures in the Middle East, I may start to believe that you believe in the sanctity of life.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Thomas the Talking Trash Compactor,

That post has got to be one of the top 10 most despicable I’ve had the misfortune to read here at MLs.

Perhaps you are confusing me with Margaret Sanger of Planned Parenthood who advocated Eugenics?

You are calling me a NAZI for:

1) Telling the truth about a procedure that is never ever medically necessary

2) Pointing out the torture that babies go through before they are killed mercilessly.

3) Pointing out the utter hyporisy of people who complain about “torture” but support this procedure.

You have the lack of humanity to describe the truth as “horror tear jerk images”. Only you’re not horrified.

You are despicable POS subhuman scum.*

F/U

*with apologies to RE

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

By Goldie October 18, 2006 03:09 PM Or the one where the NRA still claims “Guns don’t kill people”… what a load of propaganda in that rag!

Dear Bishop Goldilocks: I am very much interested in finding out about this gun that can pull it’s own trigger that you know of.

I thought I was caught up with the times but I must have missed this one.

This would be a wonderful firearm to add to my vast collection, during those cold winter morning hunts I could leave it in the tree to shoot any innocent forest creatures that happen by, while I went inside and warmed by the fireplace.

A manufacturer’s name or website that you might have would be great!

Thank You Very Much, Andy {^*^}

By getalife

October 18, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

I would say you are correct Paul.

The Supreme Court should get the torture bill soon.

here you go bi-granny

Google torture bill blog nanny.

By Goldie

October 18, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

Still winning all those hearts and minds in Iraq:

The ministry said the deteriorating security situation in Baghdad was primarily to blame for 53,788 families leaving their homes

At what point will the Iraqis decide they’re going to like Americans again? Four years of ongoing war and violence, and you Neo-cons believe that one day we will “win this war” and all will be well with the Iraqis again?

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

By Danish —

You have absolutly no personal experience in this issue like I did, as my younger sister DIED in a hospital with her lungs filling up with blood until she suffocated to death.

She had the choice of having her baby or having an abortion. She and our family were painfully aware that with her CF (Cystic Fibrosis) condition, that the strain of childbirth would irreparrably damage her lungs and body. Many family members wished her to have an abortion, many did not.

I myself told her that I didn’t want her to have an abortion, as that may be her only chance to leave a legacy. Yes - I do have occasional regrets and wonder if I made the right choice.

The scum of a boyfriend that got her knocked up of course wanted her to have an abortion, so he could go about his playboy lifestyle. (Cont)

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

(Cont from above)

She chose to have her child, and of course the damage was done, and the rest of her now drastically shortened life was in quite a bit of misery. We watched her suffer daily with breathing difficulties.

My sister died the very day before her daughters 2nd birthday.

The thing that comforts me in all this - is she did have a choice to make that descision whether to extend her life, or have her child. That choice was hers to make and she chose to have the child.

Everyone should have the choice to make their own destinys in their life, and not have someone else (LIKE YOU) tell them what they can or cannot do! And we most certainly DO NOT need laws that eliminate a persons choice in such a matter.

I find you to be the scum that wants to pass laws that totally ignore the serious emotional issues involved here. You who dare thinks that they know what is the ultimate right thing to do and that everyone should walk in lockstep with your opinion, or they are just un-patriotic or un-godly!

If you are what humannity has become then I will gladly rejoice in being the sub-human rather than be like you!

Thomas

By RE

October 18, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

here you go andy

Only remote control killing for game, I guess someone could walk in the line of fire, but pretty doubtful.

Guns kill what they are aimed and fired at. They are aimed and fired by people. But a psycho with an AR15 and a 30 round clip can kill more people faster than the same psycho with an axe.

Ultimate responsibility falls upon the individual, but shouldn’t we consider the potential for the scope of injury as well? And how bad of a shot do you have to be to miss a deer 29 times anyway?

By Midori

October 18, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

One more link for Andy that doesn’t come from Yahoo

By Paul

October 18, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Thomas, That’s really an unfortunate experience. I trust your niece is doing well. It does show the difference between theory and everyday reality, though. And how something personal can affect your thinking. I was in a class, long time ago, discussion was abortion (not partial birth - just the topic). Lots of people with very strong opinions. One guy was very quiet - instructor asked him. He was a Mormon (very strong views on sanctity of life) and I thought - could be a predictable response. He just said how his wife became pregnant, severe complications developed early on, how their doctor (also Mormon) told them the choice was black and white - either lose the child or go to term and lose both mother and child. I’ll always remember the agony in his voice -

which is why I think, within reasonable bounds, it’s as you described - people need to have the choice to make their own destinies.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

The story I linked for you repeats what Ron Fitzsimmons said to the New York Times and the best you can come up with is that my link takes you to NRO.

Facts are stubborn things and attacking the messenger doesn’t change them.

Sybil,

Had I been talking to you I would have chosen a few different words. Two that I can think of at the moment.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

My Niece seems to be doing well although I rarely get to se her after a nasty custody battle between My mother, and her (ahem) father who hated my mother, and after winning custody handed her over to the care of his parents instead of taking responsibility himself.

She of course has the CF gene, but not the disease thank god. I think if she died of the disease after what we went through with my sister then that would have been the death of my mother as well.

Too many people see this issue as Black and White, and have the wonderful ivory tower mentality that lets them judge others without warrant. I however never had that luxury. Let me tell you - even after all these years it still hurts.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

Your story has nothing to do with full term partial birth abortion. As tough as the decision was it was one that could be made early in the process.

By Midori

October 18, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

oh yeah,

about that “robust” economy the true believers keep bragging about.

By Andy

October 18, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

I’ve got an even sadder story. I’ve never been a great lover, you know, I’m one of those twenty second wonders. Well, my wife bravely put up with it for twenty years of marriage, but lately, she’s finally had enough. She’s recently gotten even with me. She mixed my Viagra with Exlax. Now I suffer from premature EVACUATION!!!

I just heard about the new terror alert. PHONEY! Just before the election. Bush has no shame, and I’m charging him with treason. You cant just make up terror alerts, it’s inhuman and unconstitutional.

The only thing we have to fear are the Senate queers themselves!!! (read Foley)

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

By RE October 18, 2006 04:43 PM And how bad of a shot do you have to be to miss a deer 29 times anyway?

Dearest RE: I sometimes hunt with my single shot .22-250 and this whole week is muzzle loader but most of the time it’s 5 rounds at a time in my 30.06.

The Match Target Competition H-Bar II with the 30 round clip would be for any liberals that want to come by to take my guns away from me.

Or for any Islamic loonies looking for that infidel ticket to “paradise.” I have no compunctions with helping them along.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

I am sorry about your sister. She chose to give birth to her child despite the fact that by your own admission her boyfriend wanted her to have an abortion.

Killing her baby once it had been partially delivered would not have done anything to preserve her health or life.

Why are you blaming me or others for her personal tragedy?

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Ooops:

Very Truly Yours, Andy {^*^}

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

All afternoon long and we can’t be serious with eachother? It sounds like a bunch of democrats talking down to their voters in here:

By Paul October 18, 2006 04:49 PM people need to have the choice to make their own destinies.

Nobody, left or right is talking about forcing people to die because of their pregnancy, to even go there is ridiculous, I challenge anyone to show me a documented case of such a thing.

Nor would we make some “girl raped by her daddy” bare the child.

Now what about the other 1.2 million abortions that happen every year?

What’s the excuse for that?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

This is likely the source of the NRO quote, although I don’t intend to pay to read it. I think Sybil has access to it so maybe he’ll share it.

By bon scott

October 18, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

By the arrogant Bi Danish - October 18, 2006 03:51 PM - Sybil Bon Delusional, Sorry that you and the rest of the Freshkids Team find the truth too difficult to contemplate, and your hypocrisy too embarrassing to acknowledge.

You really are such a twit. You and your playground buddies introduce a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the cartoon, and then get all snooty because people don’t want to play by your rules. Awwwww.

Right now, I’d much rather discuss BushCo’s systematic dismantling of the Bill of Rights, something that could affect the lives of far FAR more people than “partial birth” abortions.

Why don’t you want to debate THAT? Maybe because your position is indefensible?

Go play in traffic.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

By We’re Gonna at 5:10: I take it you were using my cite simply as a jumping-off point. I was echoing what Thomas wrote - and in the context of those two situations, I agree.

I’m going to sit out the rest of this topic. I don’t see much new understanding and rarely are minds changed. I agree with your p3 - closest any law revision anyone with influence (there are always extremists) comes is the South Dakota issue - with exceptions for saving the life of the mother.

I will offer, though, an observation on philosophical consistency. If the antiabortion argument is life begins at conception and law should protect that life (but not to the exclusion of the life of the mother), then why is how that life/conception occurred an issue? Rape, incest, abuse, all horrible things. But, in these cases some are willing to put the emotional wellfare of the mother above the live of the (use the term you’re most comfortable with) - child/fetus/unborn child.

Please, I’m not advocating a position. I’m saying this is another example where, on an emotionally charged issue, consistency breaks down. Maybe that’s as it should be - so the law can serve people, not the other way around.

By RE

October 18, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

Andy,

With guns, I think there needs to be some common sense. Not like that crazy assault weapons ban a few years ago. My issue is with capacity and caliber, as well as mechanism. I do not think aside from military / police use should a person be allowed to own a gun with more than a 10 round clip. And that 50 cal from Barrett is really cool, but should not be for civilian use. (quote from Johnny Dangerously “it’s an 88 magnum…it shoots through schools”) Of course no Automatic weapons or silencers. Everything else is ok with me. Just a little common sense is all I am asking, make a guy reload after the first few people if he is going on a rampage.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

finchie bon airhead,

Tell us all about mean old Bushco keeping you from marrying your boyfriend again if you must, but try to tell us more about this supposed dismantling of the bill of rights while you’re at it.

Oh and if it wouldn’t be too much trouble try to keep it fact based.

By Stan

October 18, 2006 05:30 PM | Link to this

Dubya, you certainly are accurate on Bush. Actually you’re too polite. That mindless little rat-bastard has turned this country upside-down. He is not right in the head. There exist very many books written quite intimately about his behavior in Junior high, H.S., Yale - all by fellow students who observed him. Why do we never hear of (this) by the “liberal media”? Naturally, Republiscum cannot tolerate truth or reality,thus will never read them.

Watch now - Bush will make a “secret” trip to Iraq just before the election and have photo ops with the troops who despise him. Cheney will likely make a similar farce journey,Rummy too. All so filthily predictable.

By Dye, Brainless

October 18, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

I always thought my size 18 wife did an enormous amount of laundry every day. I never could quite figure out where those piles of clothes came from, after all, there’s only two of us, and I wear the same underwear, socks and shorts and shirt for three days. It aint me. Then I realized those piles of clothes weren’t piles of clothes, but only one of my wife’s big garments.

On a more positive note, my wife lost weight recently. She still has to buy all her clothes at camping stores, but she’s dropped three sizes from “tarp” to “loose fitting tent”.

By Thomas

October 18, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Yah know —-

I think this will be the last time I visit this blog. I’ll continue to visit Mike’s political Toons, but dealing with you people today shows me just how far the fanatical right has slipped into the cesspool of no compromise in important issues. You have to have it ONLY your way! Everyone that disagrees with you is un-american.

RW - Even partial birth abortions may have a good reason that neither you or any of your ilk could ever get off their agenda driven arses to ever see another persons viewpoint. You are so partisan driven that your entire life consist of spinning any reasonable debate to death. There are people that will suffer (and die) when you get your way and abortions are made illegal. But why should you care as long as YOUR party wins the football game.

Buy Danish - You hit a nerve with your posting the horrors of abortion claiming reasons and justification for overturning Roe v Wade, yet have not dealt with the horrors and sufferings personally of watching someone die or suffer the consequences of health from not having an abortion. You would have Choice removed by law from everyone’s options and not see their suffering nor care as you look the other way smug in the fact that you saved lives while maybe sacrificing their mothers.

Dusty - you were the only one here today with decency to offer the olive branch on such an emotionally charged issue. I thank you for at least really caring.

Andy — shakes head - nah - forget it - not worth my time.

It is sad that the “Hannitys” have so influenced our society with their one sided monologue, and that now real debate on issues is dead. At least in the days of Robert Novak, we had true debate (with some middle ground) to come up with answers that benefitted both sides. Alas no more.

With Nukes, Terrorism, Economy, Decaying of Rights, tortue, - America is in trouble, and I hope enough people wake up to this fact before it’s too late.

Thomas

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

Never once have I said I wanted to make abortion illegal. There may even be a case where a late term abortion becomes a medical necessity that couldn’t have been known earlier. Your personal situation wasn’t one of them and neither are thousands of others as admitted to in the stories I linked.

Your attempt to frame the debate differently and elicit a sentimental response doesn’t have any bearing on the debate. The debate is about thousands a fully viable babies being murdered for convenience and the people that are supporters of that procedure complaining that we on the right have no compassion because we don’t mind if Khalid Sheik Mohamed has to stay up past bedtime.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

I, for one, am glad that Bush and the United States are not going to give Constitutional Rights to people who have sworn to kill us.

Plus I am not a blooming idiot like some of these people are^^.

If they succeed in their sworn duty to kill me, the Constitution does me no good.

Besides, methinks the democrat position is based on politics, they would trash this whole entire country, spy on your child and torture Republicans if they thought they could get a vote.

The only way you could get these pinkos to crack down on our enemies would be to have Bush call for their release from Gitmo, a hundred grand in Jihad bucks and a nice room to stay in at Harry Reid’s Ritz Carlton.

Then we would win the war.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

Well Thomas, I hope you’ll return. You added some interesting thoughts to the discussion. In the short time I’ve visited here I’ve noticed how some discussions (abortion) are no-win, others (issue of the day) can have some interesting viewpoints - if you can ignore the personal attacks (characteristic of far left, far right, and those who can’t construct a coherent argument and feel they’ve lost the debate). Having said that, I don’t look at this as win/lose, rather, as new ideas. So please come on back from time to time. If people aren’t challenged for new thoughts, not much progress is made.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

Dear RE: Far more people die in traffic accidents every year than do from gun violence and the War On Islamic Fascism put together.

Should we outlaw cars too?

Respectfully, Andy {^*^}

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Sybil Bon reluctant Bachelor,

The subject of the cartoon is torture. It was completely on topic, which is more than I can say about your choice of topics.

Thomas,

Once again you are completely misrepresenting what I said today, or any other day.

PBA has NOTHING to do with Roe V. Wade, and nothing to do with your sisters death. It is never necessary to protect the life and health of the mother. PERIOD.

Please read what RW and I posted very carefully. You clearly are completely ignorant about the process of pregnancy, “PBA”, and early term abortions which are entirely different procedures.

I refuse to allow you to slander me just because you are a clueless and angry Moonbat.

READ. LEARN. APOLOGIZE.

Good Bye.

By Buy Danish

October 18, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Before I go, please read the same FACTUAL links I have asked Thomas to read. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about either or you would not be praising Thomas for his idiotic and hateful comments.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Paul,

One of these days how about giving us Paul’s list of where everyone falls on the scorecard you often reference, like in the middle of that 5:53, so that we know what we’re dealing with when it comes to Paul.

I, for one, am sick and tired of your broad brush generalizations that label everyone and no one. I like the people on this blog from both sides that have the balls to call a spade a spade.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Uh, Buy Danish, I thought the topic of today’s cartoon (it’s an editorial cartoon, open to as many interpretations as there are readers) was the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which Mr. Luckovich portrayed as the “Torture Bill.” As far as self-inflicted damage, could be seen as US fighting amongst itself (as with this forum?) or doing more damage to itself than those outside can do? Personally, I read it as a regrettable way to keep the discussion at a low level to further discredit the administration (it’s about how we prosecute and bring to justice terrorists, not a bill to legalize torture). Ideology trumps reason. Again.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish - I wasn’t taking sides, merely said abortion is a difficult, emotional issue that gets more difficult as it gets personal - either for oneself or for a family member. Nor was I praising - said I understood some of his points.

RW (the original) - not up to me. In fact, lots of times I skip over the names and read the posts, try to concentrate on the points made. If my observation about namecallers coming from both extremes of the spectrum offends - well, that’s just how I see it. I don’t care for the Howard Dean rants, the Feingold misrepresentations - sorry I can’t think of corresponding Republican politicians but I can easily list some right of center radio personalities who do the same. My point was, those who resort to personal attacks have ceded the argument. Wasn’t a broad brush - I was speaking of extremists at both ends of the spectrum. One can make an argument (call a spade a spade) without getting personally nasty.

By Huge

October 18, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

Thomas,

The story about your sister had a big impact on me.

For the record, I think abortion, when done as a matter of convenience, is reprehensible. I also think completely outlawing it is unrealistic and that cure is probably worse than the disease.

Often people have made their minds up completely on a certain topic. I think Jefferson called it being a slave to your ideas. (i.e. a complete unwillingness to see alternative positions or ever be willing to change one’s mind.)

There’s an old saying about when in the presence of polite company don’t discuss politics or religion. Around here that’s practically all we talk about! So, obviously it’s typically anything but polite! And I’ve been told that this blog is actually fairly tame compared to some others!

As much as the insults fly, I honestly don’t think anyone here bears any malice towards anyone else (well, there probably is one exception). Many here, including some of those on the extremes are well informed and obviously very passionate about their ideas and positions.

We’re all Americans and most of this talk about our side vs. theirs is just stuff to argue about…

By Paul

October 18, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

Huge: your second paragraph (abortion) is probably the best encapsulation of a reasonable position I’ve read today.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

Rep. Charlie Rangel of New York would be in charge of writing the nation’s tax legislation. He would determine what rates you and your business will pay. Singing the same tune as Pelosi, Rangel recently said that if the Democrats win, “Everything is on the table.” In fact, when he was asked if he would consider across-the-board income tax increases on everyone, including the middle class, he said “No question about it.” If top Democrats talk this way now before they’re elected, what can we expect them to do afterwards?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Your 5:53 talks specifically of the comments here, not some politician, radio host, or even fringe group talking points.

Many people here have been here for a long time and can speak more harshly to certain people and still have a debate with them. Sometimes there is also a history that a self professed newcomer wouldn’t know enough about to speak intelligently to.

If it’s your style to just say “some people” when you mean someone specifically fine, but it’s not mine and it’s not going to be so when I see you make comments that infer that if we only talked like Paul we could get somewhere don’t expect me not to speak up.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Sometimes The Onion gets mighty close to the truth

By Dye, Brainless

October 18, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

It’s just an estimate, but at 7:46 am Eastern Standandard Time yesterday, the 300 millionth excuse foley has given for homo-eroticizing pages was born.

By Paul

October 18, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

RW - yes, I did refer specifically to some pretty nasty namecalling that happens here, not politicians, etc. I rather saw the style as the same as extremists - similar to the Deans of the world - who use that as a tactic.

Your second point is interesting - you obviously have a long history with some posters here. I still can’t quite imagine injecting this same style in a business meeting, Rotary Club meeting, church meeting etc where one’s been a member for years - you get my point. I just do not understand why observations of civility seem to so easily go out the window on forums.

Well, it’s not my job to referee between people when they’re hurling insults - but if people with whom I am having a discussion get harsh, I will take your observation and be specific with them. But it will probably seem repetitious - as in, “have you run out of examples to support your position so now you’re yelling/insulting” or words to that effect.

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

John McCain doesn’t seem to think things are so rosy for the Dems. This sentence gives me a somewhat ambivalent feeling though.

“I think I’d just commit suicide,” he said with a smile.

By RE

October 18, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Andy,

I would not outlaw cars due to more deaths.

The statistics come in to play here, there are more net deaths in cars than due to gunfire. There are many more hours that people drive in cars than there are hours that they handle firearms. It is a false comparison. You have to consider sample size.

By nuff-said

October 18, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

Has anyone read “Fiasco”? We know it’s bad in Iraq. It’s really much, much worse than you think. We, along with George W. “Clueless” Bush can watch while our young lads die; and thousands others perish for no good reason.

By Huge

October 18, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

RW,

McCain, to me seems to be in a uniquely tough spot. At times, he’s been called a RINO and at other times he seems to be a die-hard W fan.

I kind of like him, but I have never quite figured him out…

By RE

October 18, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

The elections this year are like betting on football.

House:

Dems vs GOP (-14.5)

Senate:

Dems vs GOP (-6.5)

So while you are watching, your team can lose but you still win your bet. Even if the GOP loses 14 seats, you can still feel good that you won.

Just trying to keep the right wing happy, look on the bright side

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 18, 2006 07:04 PM | Link to this

By Paul October 18, 2006 06:51 PM I still can’t quite imagine injecting this same style in a business meeting, Rotary Club meeting, church meeting etc where one’s been a member for years - you get my point.

Paul, wouldn’t it be easier to find someplace where the debate is more suited to your liking, instead of imposing yourself as nanny on this one?

I honestly believe you are sincere, versus being a big fat fake harlot like Huge is, so would you mind taking a word of advice from me?

Look through the archives of this particular cartoonist’s blog, paying close attention to the way this scumbag has drawn and depicted our president and ask yourself who exactly has set the tone for this discussion?

Or are you unable to make that connection?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

How much have you heard about Steny Hoyer calling black candidate for Senate in Maryland, Michael Steele, a slave

If the answer is, not much, it’s because Hoyer has a D behind his name and Steele has an R.

By When Will Harry Reid Resign, After He Becomes A Republican??

October 18, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

Dear RE: More people died from AIDS in 2004 than did from gunshots.

Should we outlaw homosexuality?

Yours Truly, Andy {^*^}

By Foley Never Got This Sick

October 18, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

By pedophile bon scott freak September 29, 2006 06:58 PM Short eyes likes his boy toys!! Is that why you get juiced? Yummmmm… just watch their little legs!!By the way, what kind of lubricant do you and your boy-toys prefer? Do you use xanax or roofies to loosen them up, or does vodka alone do the trick?

By RW-(the original)

October 18, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Huge,

McCain acts like a Republican when the voters are paying the most attention. If anything I think he’s more two-faced than independent or he just insists on being a trouble maker.

When the White House proposed the language for the Military Commissions Act McCain started squawking, but it was his language from the Terrorist Detention Act that the White House was using.