Mike Luckovich

By When Will Harry Reid Resign, After He Becomes A Republican??

October 19, 2006 08:02 AM | Link to this

Yesterday’s cartoon that didn’t suck!(the wrong one loaded, excuse me.)

{^*^}

“George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we’d leave,” Bush said. “And the leaders of al Qaeda have made that very clear. Look, here’s how I view it. First of all, al Qaeda is still very active in Iraq. They are dangerous. They are lethal. They are trying to not only kill American troops, but they’re trying to foment sectarian violence. They believe that if they can create enough chaos, the American people will grow sick and tired of the Iraqi effort and will cause government to withdraw.”-ABC “News”

Hey, that’s the same thing the liberals want!

{^*^}

The new law is, above all, a stinging rebuke to the Supreme Court. It strips the courts of jurisdiction to hear any habeas corpus claim filed by any alien enemy combatant anywhere in the world. It was passed in response to the effort by a five-justice majority in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld to take control over terrorism policy. That majority extended judicial review to Guantanamo Bay, threw the Bush military commissions into doubt, and tried to extend the protections of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions to al Qaeda and Taliban detainees, overturning the traditional understanding that Geneva does not cover terrorists, who are not signatories nor “combatants” in an internal civil war under Article 3.-OpinionJournal

By The AJC Is A Filthy Anti American Rag

October 19, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this

The frustration with Bush & Co. has driven a few in the media almost to the point of clinical madness. In 2004, a clueless Dan Rather imploded by airing clearly forged memos that called into question Bush’s National Guard service - with the result that he was eased out by an embarrassed CBS News. More recently, Keith Olbermann, the foaming news head on the struggling cable channel MSNBC, keeps his ratings low with uncontrollable rants about Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld pushing a “new fascism.” The Democrats have not elected congressional majorities in 12 years, and they’ve occupied the White House in only eight of the last 26 years. The left’s current unruliness seems a way of scapegoating others for a more elemental frustration - that they can’t gain a national majority based on their core beliefs. More entitlements, higher taxes to pay for them, gay marriage, de facto quotas in affirmative action, open borders, abortion on demand, and radical secularism - these liberal issues don’t tend to resonate with most Americans.-RealClearPolitics

{^*^}

“Worst economy since Herbert Hoover,” said John Kerry in 2004, while that year’s growth (3.9 percent) was adding to America’s GDP the equivalent of the GDP of Taiwan (the 19th-largest economy). Nancy Pelosi vows that if Democrats capture Congress they will “jump-start our economy.” But since the Bush tax cuts went into effect in 2003, the economy’s growth rate (3.5 percent) has been better than the average for the 1980s (3.1) and 1990s (3.3). Today’s unemployment rate (4.6 percent) is lower than the average for the 1990s (5.8) — lower, in fact, than the average for the last 40 years (6.0). Economic hypochondria, a derangement associated with affluence, is a byproduct of the welfare state: An entitlement mentality gives Americans a low pain threshold-RealClearPolitics

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 19, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this

The first sign of trouble came after my son stood up to his “liberal claims” and promptly received an “F” on a paper in which the teacher wrote in red “sloppy Republican” at the top of the paper. (I have a copy of this paper if you would like to see it.)-TownHall

{^*^}

Today’s cartoon that doesn’t suck!

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

Whoa! What…no GOP bashing ‘toon? Mikey, what is going on?

By Cut And Run!!!!!

October 19, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

Investor’s Business Daily, ABC “News,” Wall Street Journal, Real Clear Politics and TownHall.

If you want to be a idiot moonbat like Politcal Foreskin then go ahead and think these links^^ contain viruses.

And since the Yahoo! Spammer is late today, here’s the list of things that moron is going to spam Luckovich’s blog with:

The entire Yahoo! “News” webpage

So get to cutting, pasting and blaming Bush you loser!

By Kinder, Gentler Republicans

October 19, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - Patricia Meier, a 63-year-old quadriplegic and Medicare recipient, needs to replace the wheelchair she has used for five years. Normally, Meier could simply use her Medicare benefits to replace the power wheelchair, which adjusts her position to prevent sores, with another one from WestMed Rehab Inc., a medical supplier near her home in Box Elder, S.D. But WestMed, along with several other suppliers across the country, says it will no longer provide power wheelchairs to most Medicare recipients after Nov. 15, when cuts in Medicare reimbursements go into effect.

Republicans are about as ‘Christian’ as Saddam Hussein ! ! !

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

Bush is at 38% approval. Congress has a 16% approval. Yes, 16%! The generic has the Dems. up 52% - 37%. Those numbers explain this analysis:

Just 20 days until Election Day, the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll finds approval of the GOP-held Congress is at its lowest mark in 14 years, the Republican Party’s favorability rating is at an all-time low and Bush’s approval rating remains mired in the 30s — all ominous signs for a party trying to maintain control of Congress.

In fact, according to a poll, Republicans are in worse shape on some key measures than Democrats were in 1994, when they lost their congressional majorities.

Not bad numbers for 19 days out. There is growing confidence and aggressiveness among the Democrats. They’re continuing to expand the playing field. Confidence is contagious.

Now if we can ust keep Republican election shananigans to a minimum. The ONLY way they can win this time is to cheat (again).

By Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Republican

October 19, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - A limousine company caught up in a congressional bribery scandal is having its Homeland Security contract extended, several months after angry Capitol Hill hearings into why the contract was awarded in the first place.

One thing you gotta give Republicans is they are always consistent. Give ‘em any chance whatsoever and they’ll pick your wallet clean in the twinkle of a congressional pages eye ! ! !

By Your Money Where Their Mouth Is

October 19, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - With a long list of caveats, President Bush signed a bill Tuesday authorizing $532.8 billion in defense spending, including a 2.2 percent pay raise for members of the military.

Oooooo, thank ye massa. Ah’ll try not to spend all the 2.2% raise in one place. Republicans mealy mouth lip service to our men and women in uniform but when it comes to putting your money where their mouth is……..

By ALL of the People ALL of the Time

October 19, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - Americans are anxious and frustrated over the state of U.S. foreign relations, a survey indicates, with large majorities worried that the country’s foreign policy is making the world increasingly dangerous for the United States and its people.

Try as they may, Republicans just can’t ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’ ! ! !

By George

October 19, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

The pitter patter of big feet leaving the party.

WICHITA — Paul Morrison, a career prosecutor who specializes in putting killers behind bars, has the bulletproof résumé and the rugged looks of a law-and-order Republican, which is what he was until last year. That was when he announced he would run for attorney general — as a Democrat.

Nor is Morrison alone. In a state that voted nearly 2 to 1 for President Bush in 2004, nine former Republicans will be on the November ballot as Democrats. Among them is Mark Parkinson, a former chairman of the Kansas Republican Party, who changed parties to run for lieutenant governor with the popular Democratic governor, Kathleen Sebelius.

The exodus has started! It ought to look like the Peachtree Road Race shortly.

By Cowboys and Iraqians

October 19, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - The U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan failed to follow through as it should have after ousting the Taliban government in 2001, setting the stage for this year’s deadly resurgence, the NATO commander in the country said Tuesday.

No Shiite Sherlock, but King George couldn’t have played cowboy in Iraq if he had to be bothered finishing the real job ! ! !

By Republican Double Speak

October 19, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

SAVANNAH, Ga. - In an Oct. 12 story about a former Army Corps of Engineers employee convicted of taking almost $50,000 from a Kuwaiti real estate agent, The Associated Press erroneously described the plea agreement by Gheevarghese Pappen. He pleaded guilty to accepting illegal gratuities, not bribery.

Bribery is such an ugly word. Republicans prefer to use the terms ‘accepting illegal gratuities’. That makes me feel sooooooo much better, how about you ? ? ?

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

Good ‘toon, Lucko — and Americans are surprised that the wealthy ones like Madonna get advanced to the front of the adoption line? Big surprise.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Twinkle, the dems know a lot about congressional pages. Actual physical interaction with them, followed by rousing praise and approval.

It’s the hypocrisy, stupid.

By Republican Earnings

October 19, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With congressional elections less than three weeks away, the Republican party’s approval ratings are at an all-time low, with approval of the Republican-led Congress at its lowest point in 14 years, according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released on Wednesday.

Only 16 percent of respondents approve of the job Congress is doing, the lowest level since 1992, NBC said.

Hey, it’s a historic event. The Republicans finally worked to earn something instead of stealing it ! ! !

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

Uh-oh. We know the Repugnants are really in trouble when even the flat-Earthers in Kansas switch to the Dems:

Nine ex-Republicans run as Dems in Kansas

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

George, I just saw that you posted the same link — this is a tidal wave of Repugnant discontent! Kansas!

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Shawny - you are correct. Stubbs should have been thrown out of office and put in the slammer. That doesn’t excuse the actions of Republicans. Instead they should do the right thing and be a shining example to us lowly Democrats. Kicking Foley out of office wasn’t really a punishment because he wanted to leave anyway but Rove talked (coerced?) him into running again. The real problem is the fact that the Republican leadership covered for him fo so long rather than risk losing the seat. Don’t you see anything wrong with that?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

Goldie -what bothers me is the fact that it is entirely possible that the ones who are switching parties could end up like Leiberman. As DINOs. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least. That could be Rove’s master plan - infiltration.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

ALG…yep, fire ‘em all, I say! Inexcusable. But consider the argument of what is worse, the crime or the coverup. Foley and co were guilty of the cover up, but the crime was minimal. Stubbs was guilty of the deed itself. Though the dems didn’t try to cover it up, but instead praised him, gave him a standing ovation, campaigned for his re-election, and then Nancy and co nominated him for committee chair positions. All AFTER doing it with a minor.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this

Odd that the scribbler would take on the US population growth and cite a Malawian baby adopted to live in England as the cause of it’s increase. Unchecked illegal immigration has nothing to do with it, NOTHING says mikie.

Of course this is what passes for news at the Al Jazeera Constitution.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

Followup from We’re Gonna Raise Taxes yesterday at 7:04: g’morning. Yesterday evening you wrote:

“Paul, wouldn’t it be easier to find someplace where the debate is more suited to your liking, instead of imposing yourself as nanny on this one?”

I didn’t think I’d ever imposed myself as a nanny. How two people want to conduct a discussion is up to them. I did observe that as you scan through a day’s writings there are times when a good back-and-forth debate pretty much ends with “you’re such a loser” or “only an idiot like you would think that” comments. My point was that seems to happen when people can’t support the position. RW (the original) said some on the forum like that kind of interaction. I’d never thought of that - and if they do, that’s fine, too. But I don’t jump in and say “be civil, everyone” (the nanny thing). So now I understand there are two parts of the insult genre - either people resort to it when argument fails, or argument hasn’t failed, they just like trading insults. Hey, some people like caramel pistachio ice cream. Makes no difference to me.

” would you mind taking a word of advice from me? Look through the archives of this particular cartoonist’s blog, paying close attention to the way this scumbag has drawn and depicted our president and ask yourself who exactly has set the tone for this discussion?”

I have to disagree a bit with you here. I’ve heard Mr. Luckovich speak in public forums. I’ve found him to be intelligent, rather quiet, sharp in making his points and not one for getting drawn into emotional matches. People ask a question from the floor challenging him I recall he pretty much acknowledged their position and clarified his. I find myself at the far opposite end on a lot of his foreign policy views - I think he’s an across-the-board liberal with a big “L.” I haven’t figured out how someone with his demeanor portrays some issues as he does - the “torture manual US instructors to al Qaeda” panel right after the two US soldiers were tortured and killed made me cringe. So he may set the tone but I don’t have to buy into it.

Good points, thanks.

By @@

October 19, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

This is a funny cartoon ml. The 300,000,000 baby born in the U.S. was to hispanic immigrants. I don’t know if they were legal or illegal. They’ve been here for six years and are grateful for the opportunities America offers. Cute baby!!!

Madonna goes to Africa to adopt (or buy) a child from his father. What about the American children who need a home? They do exist you know. Are they not worthy?

Makes me say hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I wonder if Madonna is going to censor what her newest child will watch on MTV. She censors what her first child watches. I wonder if will allow her children to watch her videos.

Makes me say hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Shawny - my point is that by remaining silent the Republican leadership left open the possibility that the Foley thing could have evolved into physical contact. Thank god that didn’t happen but you must admit the possilbility was there.

By Sleeping on the Job

October 19, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

By Shawny October 19, 2006 09:09 AM- Stubbs was guilty of the deed itself. Though the dems didn’t try to cover it up

And all the while, Republicans should have been the watchdogs of the other party but they were asleep on the job as usual ! ! !

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Angry Liberal Guy— I understand what you’re saying, but when the guy running for Lt. Governor says “I’d reached a breaking point… I want to work on relevant issues and not on a lot of things that don’t matter”, that’s really the heart of what’s going on all across America. The curtain has been pulled back away from the Wizard of Oz!

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

Now, my fear is that GA will once again end up #50 in education and literacy, based on Kansas’ enlightenment and desire to move on up the list, sure to be followed by other states… Come on, Georgians — wake up!

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

Goldie - in most cases I think you are correct but after the last 6 years I am increasingly cynical when it comes to the GOP. Can you blame me?

By Ashamed of the Association

October 19, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Liberal and conservative evangelicals set aside their political differences Wednesday to urge that President Bush do more to end the humanitarian crisis in the Darfur region of Sudan.

Evangelicals are finally tired of the Bushshit, too. King George either needs to ACT like a Christian or shut his pie-hole about being one. Real Christians are ashamed to think that Bush speaks for them, anymore ! ! !

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

This must have been in the last liberal media talking points memo. Play up a big increase in something and completely ignore the cause.

Don’t you just love when George and Goldie link the same story and decide that means it’s a tidal wave.

The first sign of trouble came after my son stood up to his “liberal claims” and promptly received an “F” on a paper in which the teacher wrote in red “sloppy Republican” at the top of the paper. (I have a copy of this paper if you would like to see it.)- Town Hall

Look ^ ^ ^ it’s a tidal wave of derision over liberal school teachers.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Pres Bush was on Bill O’Reilly’s show last night - O’Reilly brought up this very topic. The Pres’s answer was to the effect his faith is a personal thing, it sustains him, he doesn’t speak for other Christians or evangelize anyone.

So enough about “he’s not a REAL Christian.” Ever taken a look at his history of personal, quiet, charitable giving (Cheney, too) and compared it to say, Gore or Kerry? Heard a great definition once: Conservatives provide charity with their own money. Liberals provide charity with other people’s money.

By Republican Priorities

October 19, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

WASHINGTON - President Bush has signed an order asserting the United States’ right to deny adversaries access to space for hostile purposes.

With all the problems in the world, the Chimperor begins a new quest to fight ‘space aliens’. Maybe he’s still looking for Kathy McFarlands Hillarycopters ! ! !

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Paul,

I think if you did a more fair reading of a day’s posts you would see a good back and forth between two or a few people get somewhat derailed when someone like finch, that hasn’t been in the conversation at all, jumps in to add a link and throw in a few vulgar insults.

Most of us can throw an insult back at him and continue our discussion or in a lot of cases the main conversation is pretty well exhausted anyway so the sport of trading barbs begins or a new topic is sparked. In a blog like this you will always have to talk through the noise.

As for ml not setting the tone because of what you know of his public demeanor that’s just naive at best. He puts his nasty side into his cartoons and then hides. If he calmly defends his position as you say he would try doing it here at least once. Some of us might even gain a little respect for him if he did.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Poor RW— his life is so dull that he can’t help but continue to come here to the blog, day after day, and moan and whine that “the scribbler” doesn’t change his worldview to his liking… put your head back in the sand, RW — you’ll feel much better.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Sleeping…yeah, you are right. The GOP should have been kicking some A when the Stubbs thing went down. Since they weren’t in control then, nothing would have stuck, though. I guess it is too much to think that the dems would have taken care of their own mess instead…yeah, they approved. So, in a way, they did take care of their own.

Fast forward to Foley…emails/texts is all they got. No crime of any substance has been committed. Just a pre-election ploy.

By Republican Pretenders

October 19, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

The terror legislation set to be signed into law Tuesday by President Bush sits atop an ideological fault line that sharply divides the US Supreme Court and highlights the emerging power of Justice Anthony Kennedy.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-PA), who voted for the law, nonetheless told his colleagues just prior to its passage that he doubted the Military Commissions Act would survive judicial scrutiny.

So this is really just another act of grandstanding by the Republican party. They have to waste their own Supreme Court nominees time reviewing legislation that they already know is flawed in order to get a forum to PRETEND to be ‘tough on terror’. No wonder they are known as the ‘Do-Nothing’ Congress ! ! !

By Paul

October 19, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

RW - again, another good perspective regarding conversational style.

Don’t know if it’s naivete re. ML - I was just struck by the great disparity between his personal demeanor and his drawings. I’ve seen a couple other really liberal political cartoonists on some shows and they often come across as more Howard Dean-like.

For all the others, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: real liberal cartoonists tend to make issues into a personal attack, not just point out foibles or hypocrisy. It’s probably bad form to bring it up here, but another site I check every day is a conservative cartoonist, Ramirez, whose work illustrates my position, even yesterday’s great cartoon dealing with Harry Reid.

Link: http://www.investors.com/editorial/cartoon.asp

for those who don’t click on links, it’s the Investors Business Daily’s web site.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Convicted criminal allowed to still roam the halls of Congress and collect his salary:

One of his Congressional perks, free travel, has been curtailed, but not by his House colleagues. The federal judge who accepted Mr. Ney’s guilty plea, Ellen Segal Huvelle, ordered him to turn over his passport and barred him from traveling outside the United States until his sentencing hearing, now scheduled for Jan. 19. Under the plea agreement, Mr. Ney could face up to 10 years in prison, but prosecutors are recommending 27 months

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

I guess you’re right Goldie, since the population of Great Britain is about 60,000,000 I guess the Madonna adoption and our annexation of the UK really has our population at 360,000,000.

Thanks for the geography lesson! Now get back to worrying about Georgia’s place on a scholastic ranking system, I’m sure you could raise it with a Ryder truck.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Let’s see what we find if we actually read Goldie’s 9:54 link:

{{{{Until the House reconvenes after the elections, there is no way under Congressional rules to force him out. Republican House leaders have vowed to make Mr. Ney’s expulsion their first order of business when they return to Washington next month.}}}}

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Fast forward to Foley…emails/texts is all they got. No crime of any substance has been committed. Just a pre-election ploy.- Shawny

I must take exception. It wasn’t the Dems who brought this to light. In fact the Dem who was n the page board was kept in the dark about the Foley emails. Brian Ross, who broke the story, said it was a Republican who gave it to him. Both parties tend to get especially sneaky and nasty before an election but I don’t the Foley thing is an example of that.

As for the fact that there was no “crime of substance” the fact that the Republican leadership sat on it for so long certainly made it a possibility. I don’t know about you but if it had been my son who received those emails AFTER Foley’s superiors knew about it I would be absolutely livid.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

ALG,

Oh Really?

By rushncap

October 19, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Well, guess no one has referenced this story yet: California is investigating a Republican candidate for trying to prevent Hispanics from voting. Just good old-fashioned neo-con politics at its best.

Republicans better zip up this election. Their desperation is showing.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

RW— we all know that the most important thing in life for the Repugnants is MONEY. And y’all make damn sure that you bleed the middle-class taxpayers for every cent you can… “criminal convictions, no problem — just continue to cling to that office and collect all the dough you can!”

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

RW - yes really

By Paul

October 19, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

rushncap: so you favor illegals (not migrants, as the letter erroneously stated) having the right to vote in US elections? And if you don’t, do you support the AJC’s position of not having voter ID cards?

By Paul

October 19, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

rushncap: so you favor illegals (not migrants, as the letter erroneously stated) having the right to vote in US elections? And if you don’t, do you support the AJC’s position of not having voter ID cards?

By Paul

October 19, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Goldie, unless I’m mistaken, the portion of federal receipts paid by middle-class taxpayers has actually declined in the past few years - even given the tax cuts for the “rich.”

Now if you’re referring to local taxes, employment taxes, etc, well, that’s a different story.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

ALG,

Did you even read the story? sheesh…

rushncap,

As a matter of fact Andy already linked to your story. I always knew you were really just basking in his shadow.

Goldie,

Is that your scholastic contribution to Civics. If you’re by any chance a Georgia school teacher I think we’re getting closer to finding the reason why we rank near the bottom.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

“As the hobbits are going up Mount Doom, the Eye of Mordor is being drawn somewhere else. It’s being drawn to Iraq and it’s not being drawn to the U.S. You know what? I want to keep it on Iraq. I don’t want the Eye to come back here to the United States.” - Rick Santorum

I know that both sides have their share of idiots but Santorum wins the booby prize.

By McCain's reaction to a Dem takeover of Congress

October 19, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

“I think I’d just commit suicide” –Senator McCain (R-AZ)

By bon scott

October 19, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

Did Democrats plot to leak the Foley story?

Could be. But if true, they were just the messengers.

It’s the GOP (and it’s “family values” faction) that’s turned the Foley matter into a malignancy. It’s not dirty politics to turn a party’s hypocrisy against itself.

By rushncap

October 19, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Paul - I favor you reading the links I sent. There it clearly states that the desperate little letter was directed all ALL immigrants, not just illegal ones. And yes, I of course support the AJC’s (and most Americans’) position of not requiring ID cards. Americans who do not have ID cards on them are still citizens who are capable of voting, believe it or not.

Thanks RW. I don’t think a bacterium could “bask” in his shadow, but that’s a different matter altogether. Not to mention that if li’l andy did link to that story, it was not today.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

Just listening to Diane Rehm show on NPR - guests are discussing possible vote fraud with electronic voting machines.

Democratic spokesman keeps making the point the machines should have a paper trail so vote fraud doesn’t occur. So far, Ms. Rehm hasn’t asked (nor have any callers gotten through) why the Democratic Party consistently opposes picture voter ID cards to combat voter fraud…

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

RW - Actually I did read the article. Here are the passages that stood out to me:

But there are indications that Democrats spent months circulating five less insidious Foley e-mails to news organizations before they were finally published by ABC News late last month, which prompted the leaking of the more salacious instant messages. Harper’s Magazine said yesterday that it obtained the five e-mails from a Democratic Party operative, albeit in May, long before the election season.

Those 2004 e-mails — dubbed “over-friendly” by House Republican leaders — originally leaked out of the office of Rep. Rodney Alexander (La.), a Republican. But, Republicans say, they still may have come from a Democrat on his staff.

The timing of the e-mails’ release appears to be more of a coincidence than an “October surprise,” designed to affect the outcome of the elections. It took more than a year for the e-mails to be published because one publication after another decided not to print them.

It all seems inconclusive to me and doesn’t really prop up your assertion that Dems started it all.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

rushncap, I understand the letter addressed all immigrants. That was a stupid and wrong thing to do. But, I just asked (and I misspelled “immigrants” as “migrants”) if the letter had just been sent to illegals, would that have been wrong?

This should show up after my question about the inconsistency of the Democratic Party when it comes to voter fraud - it’s all about the power -

By rushncap

October 19, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Would it have been wrong to send that letter to illegals? Legally, no. Morally yes. That’s like mailing a letter to everyone whose license plate you see near a liquor store warning them about all the evils drunk driving can do. Or sending a letter to everyone you see at a mall with a child explaining that pedophilia is punishable by law.

And I’m not sure what your question about inconsistencies is. Republicans are well-known for doing whatever they can to perpetrate voter fraud: purging voter lists, sending letters like the one I referenced (or the one in the 2000 election telling the poor to vote on the day after the election) etc. And you’re upset that Democrats aren’t happy about that?

Do you support a paper trail for the voting machines? Yes or no?

By Huge

October 19, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Hi Goldie,

Your comments about Kansas made me throw in my two cents worth about the Jayhawk state.

A little history:

In 1999, the board of education eliminated most references to evolution, a move Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould said was akin to teaching “American history without Lincoln.”

Two years later, voters replaced three of the 10 members on the board and they dropped the “intelligent design” friendly standards.

But unfortunately the new gop heavy board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena. All six of those who voted for the standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted against them.

Even still, it is up to the 300 local school boards to decide what if any of this “creationism” can be taught in public school science classes and more importantly the standards state that high school students must understand major evolutionary concepts.

So, yes, Kansas in some ways is the laughingstock of the entire nation and world. (But even so, Kansas has had a long history of academic excellence and even today is 15th in the nation in state education rankings. So there’s no real danger of them challenging the abysmal rankings of virtually all of the states here in the deep south, where fundamentalism is rampant.)

The sad thing about all of this is that the evangelicals try to disguise this as “academic freedom”. But clearly this discussion belongs in comparative religion classes, NOT science classes. It is clear to most, that it is just another slightly more sophisticated attempt in a very, very long history to rub their christian diety in every single American child’s face.

And very fortunately, as much as some of these fundamentalists hate it, a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1987 banned teaching the biblical story of creation in public schools.

Can you give me an amen, sister!

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

ALG,

Fair enough, but it also doesn’t support your point blank assertion that it had nothing to do with Democrats.

rushncap,

I just opened up Andy’s link from 8:10 today<————today meaning this very day at 8:10AM and shock of shocks, you are wrong again!

By Paul

October 19, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

I would view a letter to illegals only warning of the penalties for illegal voting as a counter to efforts by some to encourage illegals to vote.

Both major parties have been guilty of voter fraud over the years. Now, it seems to me many Republicans (through intent or ineptitude by local officials in procurement is open to question) do not want a paper trail on electronic voting machines. And on the larger issue of voter fraud, it seems many Democrats oppose stronger identification measures as the party believes it will receive a majority of votes cast by those who would otherwise be ineligible to vote.

So back to an old position - both parties are guilty of perpetuating systems that will gain them an advantage to the detriment of the citizenry.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Sleeping…yeah, you are right. The GOP should have been kicking some A when the Stubbs thing went down. Since they weren’t in control then, nothing would have stuck, though. I guess it is too much to think that the dems would have taken care of their own mess instead…yeah, they approved. So, in a way, they did take care of their own.

Fast forward to Foley…emails/texts is all they got. No crime of any substance has been committed. Just a pre-election ploy.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

rushncap at 1100: missed your paper trail question. Yes, I do support paper trails for electronic voting machines. And more stringent requirements to identify registered voters and let them exercise their right to vote. Once per election.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

ALG,

About your 10:33,

Sheeesh. Pat Dobson influenced, neo-con squares should not try to reference Tolkien!

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

RW - I agree that when this all came to light that the Dems pounced on it with both feet. Wouldn’t the Republicans have done the same? It’s just politics. Some Dems “may” have known and did nothing. For that they should be held accountable. However we know for a fact that some Republicans knew about it and did nothing. They too should be held accountable. I may be a liberal but I don’t excuse misdeeds from Dems any more than I do from Republicans. We have no room in our fragile republic for bad representation.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Paul,

Do you have the names of any of these Republicans that have come out against a paper trail for electronic voting machines? Secretary of State Cathy Cox, a Democrat, has blamed procurement issues, but I haven’t seen any blocked budget proposal and nationally I have seen the charge that Republicans don’t want one, but I’ve never heard a Republican say that.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 19, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

By Paul October 19, 2006 09:16 AM I have to disagree a bit with you here. I’ve heard Mr. Luckovich speak in public forums.

I haven’t read any comments past this one yet so I may be behind in the conversation.

Paul: As I said yesterday I truly believe that you are sincere in your intentions to “civilize” the discussion, so to speak, but consider this: You have openly critiqued some people’s posts and this can be seen in itself as insulting. That’s where the “nanny” tag came from.

Like I said, I don’t think you meant to insult anyone but you did none the less.

As far as Luckovich goes, I see someone, who depicts the duly twice elected President of the United States as a small man with crayons on his oval office desk, not as a serious person but instead someone who SEEKS to lower the standards of discourse. If this POS pinko wants to insult the leader of our great country in such a way then I see an invitation to insult him and liberalism in any way that I damn well please.

Draw a cartoon that RESPECTFULLY disagrees with the position of the POTUS, you will see Andy at his best behaviour.

This shouldn’t be that hard to understand. I see bloggers like Huge to be either the most ignorant person possible or as someone who’s playing hypocrisy games, claiming some high ground that they’ve done nothing to earn.

Andy {^*^}

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

ALG,

I’m sorry, but we DON”T know for a fact that Republicans knew the extent of the Foley messages. I agree that if anyone knew of the illicit IM’s they should be held to account, but if they knew of only the overly friendly emails and told him to stop that was really all that could be expected.

I’m more than willing to let the investigation take it’s course. I would like to know why Nancy Pelosi would not allow an independent investigation headed by Louie Freeh go forward too.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

http://www.townhall.com/funnies/cartoonist/LisaBenson/2006/10/1

is a better ‘toon regarding the Madonna adoption, following the Angelina, et al adoptions.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

I too would like to know why Pelosi wouldn’t allow an independent investigation. I have not heard that one but I wouldn’t be surprised. I am no fan of Pelosi. In my book she is a spineless excuse for a representative. She’s taken the “roll over and play dead” approach too often to suit me.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

If anyone is interested, comment registration is open over at Hot Air.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Were gonna at 11:06: with that view of “nanny” I can see your point - just consider it a variation on the “insult” theme (that was a joke)

And I take your point on how Mr. Luckovich portrays the President/Presidency. Like I said - when there’s a large issue involved, seems Mr. L will portray it in a way to demean the President.

RW (the original) at 11:27: I took the “Republican against paper trail” from when I’d tuned in (late) to the Diane Rehm show. Went to the website and checked - so for all those out there, it was not a Republican Party official who was against the paper trail - the guests on the show were Rich Morin, senior editor, Pew Research Centre; Geoff Garin, Democratic pollster; and Whit Ayres, Republican pollster.

So it doesn’t seem Republican Party officials are opposed to a paper trail to combat voter fraud - I do not know if a position has been taken one way or the other. But Democratic Party officials are definitely opposed to voter ID cards to combat voter fraud.

Republicans 1, Democrats 0

By rushncap

October 19, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

RW, li’l one’s link is to Yahoo News webpage, not a specific story. Therefore no, he did not link to what I linked. Shock of shocks, you’re only right when you declare yourself the winner. Reality bites, don’t it?

Paul - what about people do don’t have a picture ID on them? Or lose it around the time the election rolls around? Democracy is guaranteed for all, not just those who happen to have a picture ID on them.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

ALG,

Here’s a search page that has a few stories about it.

Just think, Pelosi may well be two heart beats from the Presidency soon. If that’s not enough to make Republicans rethink protest votes I don’t know what is.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Huge— Amen, Brother!

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Nancy Pelosi is so feared by the Repugnants because she represents the San Francisco area, and we all know what that means, don’t we? G-A-Y-S.

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

News Brief: Paul McCartney poked a hole in his Picasso painting with a broken wine bottle that he had just finished guzzling, according to a spokeman for his wife.

He meant to scar his wife’s face, but missed and tore the painting instead.

Seems a shame.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

“what about people do don’t have a picture ID on them? Or lose it around the time the election rolls around? Democracy is guaranteed for all, not just those who happen to have a picture ID on them.”

That is so very weak. Following that same logic, we could have:

Mr liquor store owner, sorry, I don’t have my license on me. Can you sell me some anyway?

Ms. MARTA security person, I forgot my pass and forgot money, can I ride anyway?

Ms. teacher, I forgot my homework. Can I avoid the half credit penalty anyway?

Here is my problem with (most) dem mentality, and that is with personal responsibility (or lack thereof).

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

I suggest the Dems adopt the voter-fraud system already in place and used by a lot of Repugnants — vote by absentee ballot which has no voter ID requirement! Leveling playing field for everyone! All the vote-fraud you can do!

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

rushncap,

He linked to what you linked and more, so I win again. Thanks for playing, try again tomorrow.

That’s the beauty of Andy’s link, no matter what any of you Yahoo queens comes up with Andy has already linked it.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

Rushncap: my understanding is that in Georgia the picture ID was not a separate voter card but could be a driver’s license or passport photo. Also, the law provided that people who couldn’t afford a picture ID would have one provided for free, courtesy of Georgia taxpayers.

Regarding your question about those who lose their driver’s license, passport photo or state-provided ID: I guess I have to say, well, that’s tough. People have a right to vote. People also need to exercise personal responsibility in safeguarding their property. Unless, possibly, the state had a mechanism that would allow the person to present themselves at the voting center with the documents (birth certificate, etc) they used to obtain the ID, then the voting center could link back to the DMV database to confirm an ID had been issued.

But that’s problem solving in the weeds. The larger issue is, should there be mechanisms in place to provide positive identification of registered voters? I think there should be.

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Cartoon Idea: Show W as Mister Bean, poking a hole in a Picasso painting, entitled “Iraq”, with his elbow.

There could be a connect with Picasso “Guernica” painting too, but I’m too stupid to see it.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Aunt bea - what the hell are you smoking - and do you have any more?

By Paul

October 19, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Shawny: the examples break down as voting is a right of citizens, buying liquor, riding on MARTA or turning in homework isn’t.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

I think absentee voting should be clamped down on and made extremely difficult to even do, but it isn’t a voting method Dems aren’t allowed to use so your silly “level playing field” argument doesn’t exist.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

rushncap,

I’m of the camp that thinks having a picture ID to vote is not a bad thing. I, and a very few others here have served in time of war for that guarantee of franchise. Is bringing a photo ID too much to ask in return?

I guess if it comes down to sheer laziness or just plain obstinance, I don’t get it. From what I know, the state of Georgia has made it exceptionally easy to get one.

I can see the argument that maybe there is just no compelling reason to add this requirement. And I’m not completely convinced there is. But if it safeguards against any shenanigans at all, it seems worth it.

As for losing your ID right before election day, it’s kind of like losing your Who tickets right before the concert. It’s gotta suck.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 19, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

By Goldie October 19, 2006 12:01 PM I suggest the Dems adopt the voter-fraud system already in place and used by a lot of Repugnants — vote by absentee ballot which has no voter ID requirement!

Those “repugnants” you talk about using absentee ballots are United States servicemen stationed overseas, you fool.

Are we to deny them the vote?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

The voter ID thing is ridiculous. There has never been widespread voter fraud as a result of the lack of IDs. Most instances of voter fraud result from someone voting an absentee ballot that is not theirs and was obtained illegally. The Milledgeville case comes to mind.

As for paper trails. Since the Republicans are the ones in power and they have not pursued legislation to provide a paper trail they are guilty by inaction. Why would they not propose legislation to require paper trails? Because it benefits them to not have them.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

ALG: why wait for a problem to occur before enacting legislation? With what, 12 or 13 million illegals in the country, why not safeguard our voting system?

“Republicans are ones in power” - they should enact requirements for federal elections. But purchasing voting machines and requirements for nonfederal elections - that’s up to the states and local officials - and therein is a mix of Republican and Democratic officials. So your “guilty by inaction” hit both parties, yes?

By rushncap

October 19, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

There there RW, if you want to think you “won”, go ahead. I’ll let you have it. Lord knows that’s pretty much all you have. I’m sure your mommy thinks you’re special, too. That’s nice. Now go eat some strained peas and carrots to celebrate your “victory”.

Huge, I can see that point of view. But I’m very leery of any additional hoops that have to be jumped through to vote. I guarantee you that someone would use that additional hoop (of a photo ID) to do something unconstitutional.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

By Angry Liberal Guy October 19, 2006 12:15 PM As for paper trails. Since the Republicans are the ones in power and they have not pursued legislation to provide a paper trail they are guilty by inaction. Why would they not propose legislation to require paper trails? Because it benefits them to not have them.

On what do you base that statement? Voting laws vary considerably by State and decision making is, in several States, placed all the way down to the precinct level.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

I didn’t mean to imply that I am against IDs per se. I tend to agree with rushncap. I just think that the Republicans are creating a problem where one doesn’t necessarily exist. Electronic voting on the other hand is much more of a problem that has an easy fix. Why don’t they put their energies into fixing that first and then attack the ID issue?

Andy - you assume that all of our servicemen vote Republican. How wrong you are. Especially now.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

rushncap,

My God man, it was a throw away joke, can’t you grow up and join the adult discussion we are having today?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Paul - the requirement to provide a paper trail has to be instituted nationally. That makes it a Republican decision not to require it. I agree that Dem officials continue to provide these machines without a paper trail and I find that abhorent. Cathy Cox brought those damned things to GA and should have required a paper trail before purchasing them. Now we have too much money invested to simply not use them. Or so she says. I believe it was Maryland and maybe Califrnia that decided to go back to paper ballots until a paper trail is provided. That’s the approach I’d like to see GA take.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

ALG,

Actually from an outside perspective it was Goldie making that implication. Andy rightly said that service people stationed overseas voted absentee, Goldie said that only “repugnants” voted absentee. So if we take Goldie at her word she wants to disenfranchise Republican voting service people and she says the Democrat service people have already chosen to disenfranchise themselves.

By We're Going To Raise..... Your......Taxes!!!!!

October 19, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

By Paul October 19, 2006 12:26 PM “Republicans are ones in power” - they should enact requirements for federal elections. But purchasing voting machines and requirements for nonfederal elections - that’s up to the states and local officials - and therein is a mix of Republican and Democratic officials. So your “guilty by inaction” hit both parties, yes?

Don’t forget that Republicans did try to legitimize elections in Georgia by enacting Voter ID laws and they had some unelected democrat appointed judge arbitrarily strike them down.

ALG: I’m also right, as usual- Bush leads Democratic Sen. John Kerry 73 percent to 18 percent in the voluntary survey of 4,165 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.-http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-383722.php

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

RW - At it’s core it is up to our federal government to require Diebold to provide a paper trail no matter who buys their machines. It wouldn’t make sense to have a local election board in GA require a paper trail and one in Arkansas not require it. Diebold isn’t compelled to provide a solution unless all election boards require it. That isn’t likely.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

“…you assume that all of our servicemen vote Republican. How wrong you are. Especially now.”

Your point is well made, ALG. I know from personal experience. But I think it’s pretty clear that the military now, and historically almost always has, been dominated by gop voters.

But what is interesting to me is that the current political leaders in DC with military, and especially combat, experience are heavily dominated by the dems. I mean it’s not even close. And I believe this has been the case for the past 25 years or so.

There are several possible explanations that I have considered.

Anyone else?

By Paul

October 19, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

RW(the original) at 12:41: actually, didn’t the Democratic Party already seek to disenfranchise nearly all military personnel voting by absentee ballot? ref: Gore campaign officials in Florida, 2000 election?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

To be fair, Goldie said “used by a lot of Repugnants” not ONLY Repugnants. For the record (not that anyone cares) I am a poll worker who votes absentee for every election. I know my vote counts :-) At least as far as I can trust my employer.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

ALG,

The Federal government has absolutely no place in the decision that State governments make with respect to their elections unless that State is usurping someone’s right to vote.

Disparity between voting mechanisms from one State to the next has no bearing whatsoever on any election ever. If a State wants to do what Cathy Cox did fine, she can answer to the voters of that State.

If any State that tells Diebold they won’t buy their machines without a paper trail, you can bet you backside Diebold will provide it.

Diebold is a for profit business. they will do what it takes to move their product or a competitor will come along and put them out of business. This is no place for Federal interference.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

“Those “repugnants” you talk about using absentee ballots are United States servicemen stationed overseas, you fool.”

Andy and RW, et al— you know that I posted that absentee voting is “used by a lot of Repugnants” — did not post that Dems don’t also use the absentee vote, did not post that those Repugnants were “servicemen stationed overseas”… you are obviously The Fools!

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

Paul,

They did, but in this case I think Goldie is really talking about people sitting right here at home voting absentee and I agree with her that its potential for abuse is real.

By Cowboys and Arabians

October 19, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

DOHA, Qatar - Saudi Arabia’s oil minister said Thursday that his country supports OPEC’s proposed 1 million barrels-a-day production cut.

The Saudis, good buddies to Bush Sr and Junior, birthplace of Osama bin Laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers, screw us in the keister once again. If we are gonna ‘liberate’ anymore savages, the Saudis get my vote for first dibs. Gas prices will be up before the election, of course, so maybe the wingnuts will wanna play ‘Cowboys and Arabians’ this time ! ! !

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

My facetious suggestion regarding absentee voting was to remind you Repugnant Fools that if you were so concerned about voter fraud, you would insist on making the absentee system more accountable — you know, the one system that has historically had voter fraud proven and prosecuted. Why are you wingnuts not ranting on and on and writing letters to the AJC editor about that?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

RW - States HAVE asked Diebold for a peper trail and they have refused so far. Hence several are returning to paper ballots.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

“This is no place for Federal interference.”

With all due respect this is EXACTLY the place for federal interference! It’s our democracy that is at stake when voting shenanigans are allowed to go unquestioned. Feds have no problem getting into our business on any other level. I actually WANT then to interfere with anything regarding our most sacred right.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

ALG,

She also said Democrats should START using absentee ballots which certainly implies that they don’t use them now. It’s not like we don’t all know she’s wrong.

As a poll worker what do you ask people for when they come in and did the instruction change when this whole ID kerfuffle started? For the last couple of years they have asked me for an ID, but before it became a campaign issue they used to always ask for my drivers license.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

What Dubya’s brother in FLA has to say about the importance of using absentee voting:

As Gov. Bush defends touch screen machines, his party urges using absentee ballots to “Make sure your vote counts”

It’s not just “servicemen” serving overseas who use the absentee system… Repugnants are all encouraged to use it, to “make sure” the vote is counted!

By Paul

October 19, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Cowboys and Arabians: well, the rational discussion was nice while it lasted. You may want to check party affiliations going back to the oil embargo - Jimmy Carter ring any bells?

As O’Reilly said to Kerry a few weeks ago: “none of you guys (in Congress or presidential administrations) have done anything to get this county out of the grip of Middle East oil for the past 20 years. Why should we reelect any of you?”

By Paul

October 19, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Goldie - why are so many of these issues framed in an “either/or” choice? Such as in machines or absentee ballots? Why not identify a problem or potential problem and go after all methods to fix it?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Goldie is correct - the absentee fraud is real. The instance I am familiar with took place in Milledgeville ans it involved Republicans. Of course Dems aren’t angels either. It seems to me there was a problem of dead people voting. The point is we need to make our voting system fraud-proof. Whatever it takes. Requirinf a paper trail seems like a no-brainer unless of course you have something to hide. Wasn;t it the president of Diebold who promised to do all he could to deliver the election to Bush?

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

ALG,

I’ll have to call BS on that one. Please provide evidence that Diebold refused to do that. They may have refused to do it after the fact for free or in a time frame someone wanted, but I would be willing to bet right now without even checking that they haven’t refused to sell it altogether.

By Shawny

October 19, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

Paul….well, duh. I know those others aren’t rights. That isn’t the point.

If picture IDs are free (and they must be, or it is a poll tax - yes I said that), and one fails to get one by the deadline assuming there was ample time, or if one loses theirs and fails to get a replacement, or simply fails to bring it by the polling place, then they are irresponsible and lose their right to vote.

If you value your right to vote enough, you will find a way to obtain, keep, and bring your card to the polling place. It is about personal responsibility.

I am not saying that the cards are the answer. Voter fraud of many types does exist, though, and needs to be addressed in a way that is fair. Illegals voting, dead people voting, and citizens denied voting is ALL wrong.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Here’s one of the better summaries of electronic voting machines, federal and local requirements, etc: Link:http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/28/ramasastry.votingmachines/index.html

Angry Liberal Guy: I’m not aware of any refusal by Diebold to provide a paper trail capability. Now, if the state had contracted for a basic machine, then the state came back and asked for additional capability without paying for it, I can understand Diebold’s action.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

RW - we are instructed to ask for ID and not to specifically ask for a driver’s license. Even if or when the ID law goes into effect I imagine that will not change as there will be 6 instead of 17 forms of ID that are acceptable.

By GOPhers Ain't MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Your point is well made, ALG. I know from personal experience. But I think it’s pretty clear that the military now, and historically almost always has, been dominated by gop voters.

I’d have to disagree. It is my recent personal experience that service personnel are about as evenly split as the general public. Currently, with multiple redeployments, cuts in VA services, meager cost of living increases, politically gerrymandered supply services, disregard for the advice of the rank and file, lack of strategic planning, etc……..I am seeing more of a lean to Democratic support, the same as is happening in the civilian sector. The absentee votes of service men and women are probably not especially supportive of the Republican platform at present.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

ALG,

You said there needed to be a Federal standard so that a voter in Georgia voted on the exact same equipment that someone in Arkansas did. I said that was not in any way an issue and it isn’t. Equipment differences from one state to the next can’t possibly be an issue in ANY election, if you still think it can be, explain.

The Federal government interferes with us in all these other ways where they have no business because of the knee jerk reaction of “angry liberal guys” to say there is a federal issue where none exists.

If a State has a corrupt system it should be fixed by the State, if a State is disenfranchising voters then there is Federal recourse.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

Paul, you tell me why the Repugnants chose the voter ID issue as the one to pursue for fraud — I didn’t say it was an “either/or” choice — the Repugnants are the ones making the issue. I agree with the candidate who is running now as a Dem in Kansas when he says: “I want to work on relevant issues and not on a lot of things that don’t matter”… you know, things like imaginery voter ID fraud, flag-burning, gay marriage — those are all issues pursued by your party leaders.

It’s not my fault that Americans have grown tired of you Repugnants — you all brought yourselves down into the hole!

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

ALG 1:21,

My question was retro active in that they USED to ask me for my driver’s license and I wondered if they specifically asked poll workers to change. I’ve had the very same poll workers for about 15 years so it’s not like someone with a different style popped in.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

RW - I’ll try and dig up confirmation on that. I do remember something about Diebold stating that it wouldn’t be feasible to rework their machines for paper trails for a small number of electon boards unless they were to do it for all election boards. The weird thing is that the machines are capable right now. Every touch screen machine has a printer and a roll of paper that is used to print a recap sheet at the end of the night. Not sure why they can’t be made to print a small receipt for individual voters.

By Midori

October 19, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Angry Liberal Guy,

Bradblog.com has extensive research/archives of all things electronic voting and election fraud.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends,

You may well be right. It’s certainly possible that the level of disillusionment with this administration has permeated as deeply into the services as it has into the civilian sector. And god knows that contrary to the spin, the gop is by and large, not really a friend of the serviceman.

But I’m not convinced without some data. The brainwashing (and that’s probably much too strong of a word) that happens in the military lends itself to creating many, many adherants of ultra-statism who aren’t paid to think. Those are the kind who will generally vote for hawks, or chickenhawks as the case may be.

By Paul

October 19, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Goldie, Goldie, it was a simple question of so many issues portrayed as either/or. I don’t have a clue why Republicans are pursuing this (aren’t “my” leaders - never said what my party affiliation is - but I happen to agree with them on this issue, with Democrats on the paper trail issue) but I would guess, with the large number of immigrants, Democrats think they have a better choice of attracting them so Republicans want to take steps to keep them from possible illegally voting.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

ALG 1:32,

I’ll look forward to reading that. One problem I see is that you would lose the sanctity of a private ballot if you tied a paper copy receipt, maintained at the polling station, that tied the ballot to the voter, but if you didn’t do that the paper receipt that the voter took home wouldn’t matter because the vote could still have been theoretically changed in the counting process.

So any recount would require all voters to keep their receipt and make sure that they presented them on request. What I would like them to do is randomly assign a tracking number to your paper receipt and post the content of that ballot on the internet by tracking number. Then anyone so inclined could go check to make sure the result matched their receipt and that their vote had posted.

If you had boxes of receipts that didn’t match a voter at the polling station, recounts would be just as screwed up as they are now. I can just see it, these boxes got wet hold the papers up to the light and see if you can discern the voters intent. Suddenly you have spent a fortune and you have Florida 2000 all over again.

No matter what you do some conspiracy theory is going to crop up and it would be helpful if we didn’t give them weight just because they might give our side hope.

Sorry if that post was long and rambling, I’m running out the door and didn’t read it back.

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

By Cowboys and Arabians October 19, 2006 01:04 PM DOHA, Qatar - Saudi Arabia’s oil minister said Thursday that his country supports OPEC’s proposed 1 million barrels-a-day production cut.

Hey Yahoo! Moron: If you’re so worried about 1 million barrels a day oil production then why won’t you let us drill in ANWR? ? ?

Maybe cause you and the rest of the liberals are America hating mental retardos? ? ?

Can’t you comprehend what you post? ? ?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately I must run. I must say I have enjoyed the civil discourse. When it gets petty and nasty I tend to not participate. Have a good afternoon all!

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Midori,

Would you mind too much if ALG provides facts instead of your kook web sites? Thank you!

By Paul

October 19, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Huge: whoa, what a slam on military personnel (aren’t paid to think). I’m sure General Colin Powell, who was not exactly a rah-rah type for the Iraq War, would take issue.

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

By Shawny October 19, 2006 01:18 PM If picture IDs are free (and they must be, or it is a poll tax - yes I said that), and one fails to get one by the deadline assuming there was ample time, or if one loses theirs and fails to get a replacement, or simply fails to bring it by the polling place, then they are irresponsible and lose their right to vote.

It’s funny to think that when the democrats come out against voter ID they are basically calling people who vote for them idiots.

Which is about the only time you can trust what a pinko says.

By Why?

October 19, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Why would someone that posts under the name Angry Liberal Guy say that he only likes it here when things aren’t angry?

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

One more thing before I go - concerning RW 01:50PM - you raise a good point but the fact that a recap sheet is produced is important. That sheet should be made an official document that is saved and guarded. As it is now it is not. It is posted on the precint door overnight and then tossed. The danger of fraud occurs during the time when the results are uploaded to the board of elections from the precinct. Then once the data is in the hands of the election board it is still vulnerable. Any proof disappears unless that recap sheet is made official. I think I just solved the whole issue :-)

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

What does “cut and run” mean?

It has no meaning.

It’s a bumper sticker for inbred red-state dittoheadwounds to rally around.

I cant believe how uneducated and poorly equipped to debate logically the bloggers on the right are on this luckovich blog.

You must really think people are stupid, or, you yourselves are helmet-challeged short-bus truants who need to be rounded up everyday and reattached to the electrodes you keep getting loose from.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Paul,

Poor choice of words on my part. I’m referring to SOME very low grade enlisted men, who are away from home for the first time. It’s pretty obvious I was not alluding to educated, career officers.

By Midori

October 19, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

well, I see I’m still being stalked.

sometimes “no” really does mean NO!!

deal with it.

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 01:26 PM Currently, with multiple redeployments, cuts in VA services, {{{{meager cost of living increases,}}}}} blah, blah, blah

Let’s just check that-

1986 E-5 pay grade with over ten years- $1592-http://www.dod.mil/dfas/militarypay/2006militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates/1996.pdf

2000 E-5 pay grade with over ten years- ">http://www.militarypay.com/MilitaryPayChartsJanuary12000.html](http://www.militarypay.com/MilitaryPayChartsJanuary12000.html)

2006 E-5 pay grade with over ten years-http://www.military.com/military/benefits/0,15465,militarypaycharts,00.html#Officer

Billy Clinton Years- $67 dollar per year raise.

President Bush- $105 dollar a year raises.

Hahahahahaha, “meager” cost of living increases, Gawd, these libs can lie, Clinton hated the military.

Vote Republican!!

By Midori

October 19, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait to see this

By RE

October 19, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

About the whole idea of foriegn dependance on oil. It is a non-issue. Oil is a global commodity, it does not matter how much we produce inside the US or how much is produced inside of any other country. the price is dependent upon world consumtion and world supply. If we increased our capacity by 10 mil barrels/day, and another country reduced by the same amount, there would be no change in price. It does not matter where the oil is located, it matters how much we use. If you want to reduce dependance upon foriegn oil, the answer is to move towards non oil fuels. It does not matter how much we drill.

please see the CIA factbook“>http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wofact2003/rankorder/2173rank.html)

the problem is consumption, not production

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

By Aunt Bea October 19, 2006 02:06 PM What does “cut and run” mean?

Filthy Mouth Murtha thought that up for us.

Actually, by the way, that makes another time that you can trust what a pinko says.

Raising your taxes makes three.

We’ll make you libs honest before this is all over with.

By getalife

October 19, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Cheney accountability is already starting

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Ooops: 2:17 should read {{{{{1996}}}}} E-5 pay grade with over ten years- $1592- Not 1986.

My bad.

By Abe

October 19, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

“We’re winning! For 5000 years them Iraq folks have been just dying for a shot of Deemocracy, U nited States of Merca style. Finally took a drunken imbecile like me and my supporters to bring it to em. See how they rejoice and celebrate! See how many we slaughter each day. Life is goo-ood! Praise Jesus! Tanks for your blind support, fellow Repugnants!

By Mike

October 19, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Uh, adoptions increase the population? Further evidence that Mikey, while a fine doodler, isn’t too bright.

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

By RE October 19, 2006 02:18 PM If we increased our capacity by 10 mil barrels/day, and another country reduced by the same amount, there would be no change in price.

RE: That’s exactly right. That’s why when these Arabs get uppity, we release oil from the strategic reserve and flood the market.

But if we had an oil well in every county, we could flood the market everyday.

It’s besides the point any way, Yahoo spammer will be whining about high gas prices tomorrow and caribou herds on Saturday.

You libs are so damn insincere.

And I say that in the nicest possible way.

By Midori

October 19, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

funny video for Getalife

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Uh, Mike— adoption of a foreign-born baby would increase the population of America by one… you’re obviously not too good with math, just like the Neo-Cons in Congress.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Go, Aunt Bea!

By Cut And Run!!!

October 19, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

At the New York Times Co., 3Q operating profit was down 48% from the same period in 2005 to $20.5 million on total revenues that slipped 2.4% to $739.6 million.-http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/articledisplay.jsp?vnucontent_id=1003285206

See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.

By getalife

October 19, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Good one Midori. LOL.

I hear Iraq for sale is really good.

By RE

October 19, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Not insincere, maybe misinformed.

It is a false arguement, the whole idea of oil independence. We exceed production of oil from every other country aside from saudi arabia, and we are a close second to them. If you factor in close allies, such as canada and mexico, we have way more production than any other area in the world. The problem is that reserves in these areas are not as large as in the middle east and elsewhere. No matter how much we drill, even a well in every county, we will not be independant. We need to shift to other fuels.

My wacky idea:

Increase the amount of electric cars available, therefore reducing the amount of oil needed. This would of course increase demand on major electricity producers, most of which are coal fired. We have plenty of that. On the enviornmental side, to cut down on CO2 emmisions, use more nuclear and renewable (wind, geothermal) energy for electricity production. Also provide incentives for solar power to be used widescale. Every roof of every business at first, then eventually to every apt complex and home. While not providing indepenence from generation plants, this could reduce the load required significantly. Just imagine what a 5% reduction in energy used would mean to this country

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

RE— you posted some good ideas re: alternative fuels. I think we should develop the use of our peanut crop for fuel here in GA — jobs creation, as well as weaning Americans off the big oil companies and denying $$ support for terrorist nations. Now, to find the funds for peanut research — Booker T. Washington would be so proud!

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Dubya loves the Macaca-hater:

Bush campaigns for two endangered Republicans

By Jay Campbell

October 19, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Loved the cat!

By George Washington Carver

October 19, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

I get no respect from Goldie, None I say!

This comment channeled through RW-(the original)

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Neo-Cons are still trying to prove that we should’ve stayed in Viet Nam another 10 years, to really “kill all those terrorists”:

“But the one thing that nobody should have any doubt about is that we’re going win,” Snow said

GOP Values: “Stay and Die!”

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Let’s recap shall we?

Midori injects herself into a portion of a conversation between ALG and myself at 1:47, receives a polite response from me at 1:52 and then claims she is being stalked at 2:12.

Cute trick sweetheart, but the words are right up ^ ^ ^ there.

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

RW, you’re so right — George Washington Carver! The name Washington was what was registering while typing— Sorry for the disrespect, GWC!

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

What’s worse, having a president who calls his critics “cut & run-ers” and “terrorist appeasers”, or having a dim-bulb president who states that he has a “clear vision”? I can’t decide. Seems like insulting 67% of the citizens of America is not a good strategy at this point.

“The stakes are high,” said Bush on Oct. 3 in Stockton, Calif. “The Democrats are the party of cut and run. Ours is a party with a clear vision”

By Midori

October 19, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Goldie,

Perhaps he needs to stock up on Visine?

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

By Goldie October 19, 2006 03:50 PM Neo-Cons are still trying to prove that we should’ve stayed in Viet Nam another 10 years, to really “kill all those terrorists”:

Bishop Goldilocks: The terrorists are Muslims, Vietnamese are Asians.

And seeing how you pinkos “cut and ran” right after we won the Tet Offensive, completely crushing the Viet Cong, yes we should have stayed for ten more years.

A million or so South Vietnamese would still be alive and the rest of them wouldn’t be slaves today.

But that kind of stuff doesn’t worry you pinkos, does it?

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

A story from David Gregory critical of the President?????

Get the scribbler on the horn, another staunch conservative has jumped the ship!!!!!

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

RW - Unfortunately I must concede to Diebold’s refusal to provide a paper trail. I can’t seem to find the article I read anywhere. After all it has been several months. I do, however, stand by my assertion that it’s up to Congress to mandate that a paper trail be required.

One argument for a voter’s receipt is the fact that the voter could instantly verify that their vote went to the right candidate. This article explains it very well.

As for the comment made by Why? at 02:03PM “Why would someone that posts under the name Angry Liberal Guy say that he only likes it here when things aren’t angry?”

In a nutshell I am angry at the state our country is in due to the incompetence of the current administration. I don’t feel that it makes sense to channel my anger toward those who are not responsible. Supporting the lunacy doesn’t necessarily make one responsible.

At the end of the day we are all Americans. I am sick of the division that politicians are causing among us. If we can somehow conduct ourselves in a civil manner maybe we can be more successful at compromise. Instead of the “my way or the highway” mentality that permeates our discourse. When our system of checks and balances is able to flourish, Americans are better off.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Don’t miss this little piece by David Gregory, maybe Sybil will stop by to analyze it for us

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

“The terrorists are Muslims, Vietnamese are Asians.”

Andy, you’ve really imbibed a lethal dose of that bad Kool-Aid, huh? Poor Moron! You know that the right-wing chant of “kill the Communists” is the same as “kill the terrorists” today — that’s all you Repugnants have to offer the world: kill, kill, kill…

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

I love it when Republicans make absolute FOOLS of themselves ! ! ! (Republicans are sooooooo dim)

By Cut And Run!!! October 19, 2006 02:17 PM“>http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/luckovich/entries/2006/10/18/baby_boom.html#comment-749143)

Billy Clinton Years(1986)- $67 dollar per year raise.“>http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/luckovich/entries/2006/10/18/baby_boom.html#comment-749143)

President Bush(2006, 20 years later)- $105 dollar a year raises.“>http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/luckovich/entries/2006/10/18/baby_boom.html#comment-749143)

Hahahahahaha, “meager” cost of living increases, Gawd, these libs can lie, Clinton hated the military. Vote Republican.“>http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/luckovich/entries/2006/10/18/baby_boom.html#comment-749143)

So YES, Let’s just check that-

The Inflation Calculator“>http://www.westegg.com/inflation/) What cost $67 in 1986 would cost $114.77 in 2005 (the latest year available for calculation, in 2006 it is even MORE).

So King George has REALLY given the American serviceman $114.77-$105=$9.77/yr LESS compensation than Billy Clinton did in 1986 adjusted dollars. Now even were we to look at NON-adjusted dollars, “Cut and Run!!!” tells us that $1.98/wk ($105/53 wks) is not a MEAGER pay raise. This guy must be workin for far less than minimum wage if he thinks that a $1.98/wk raise is not MEAGER. Gawd, these Republicans can lie, King George hates the military. Vote Democrat ! ! !

Republicans continue to think that they can ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’ but some of us have been drawing those paychecks and we just how full of baloney the Republicans REALLY are ! ! !

By Goldie

October 19, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

{And seeing how you pinkos “cut and ran” right after we won the Tet Offensive, completely crushing the Viet Cong, yes we should have stayed for ten more years.}

So there you have it, blog-world. The message is “Vote Republican — we’re the party of a clear vision for eternal wars!”

By RE

October 19, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

Tet Offensive, Jan 30 1968

Last US soldier out of Vietnam, April 30 1975

Right after?

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

I forgot to mention that the 2006 raise was a WAR TIME raise while the 1986 raise was a PEACE TIME raise. Not only are Republicans IDIOTS, they are cheap SOBs as well ! ! !

Now do you wingnuts see WHY you are losing the support of the US military ? ? ?

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

A twofer!!!!!!

Priest denies any sex with Foley Admits they were naked together in sauna decades ago.-Atlanta Urinal-Constipation-http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/USCongress/CongressmanE_mails.html

We got us a Christian and a Republican acting like liberals, having awful, terrible homosexual encounters!! How disgusting!!

By RE

October 19, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

With all respect, most arab countries are in Asia or Africa, so most Muslims are Asian

By Midori

October 19, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Getalife,

another good one

:)

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the bad links, let’s try it again………

I love it when Republicans make absolute FOOLS of themselves ! ! !

By Cut And Run!!! October 19, 2006 02:17 PM

Billy Clinton Years(1986)- $67 dollar per year raise.

President Bush(2006, 20 years later)- $105 dollar a year raises.

Hahahahahaha, “meager” cost of living increases, Gawd, these libs can lie, Clinton hated the military.

So YES, Let’s just check that-

The Inflation Calculator What cost $67 in 1986 would cost $114.77 in 2005 (the latest year available for calculation, in 2006 it is even MORE).

So King George has REALLY given the American serviceman $114.77-$105=$9.77/yr LESS compensation than Billy Clinton did in 1986 adjusted dollars. Now even were we to look at NON-adjusted dollars, “Cut and Run!!!” tells us that $1.98/wk ($105/53 wks) is not a MEAGER pay raise. This guy must be workin for far less than minimum wage if he thinks that a $1.98/wk raise is not MEAGER. Gawd, these Republicans can lie, King George hates the military. Vote Democrat ! ! !

Republicans continue to think that they can ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’ but some of us have been drawing those paychecks and we know just how full of baloney the Republicans REALLY are ! ! !

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 04:31 PM The Inflation Calculator“>http://www.westegg.com/inflation/) What cost $67 in 1986 would cost $114.77 in 2005 (the latest year available for calculation, in 2006 it is even MORE).

Reagan was president in 1986, you dumbass.

Try that again for 1996.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

It’s a happy, joyous day in the land of the pinko:

Eight soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division will face courts-martial on murder charges stemming from their service in Iraq. Four are charged with raping a 14-year-old girl in Mahmoudiya and killing her and her family. (A former soldier faces trial in federal court in Kentucky in that case.) Four other soldiers will be tried in a separate court-martial on charges of murder in the deaths of Iraqi detainees in the northern province of Salahuddin during a raid.

We support the troops!! By accusing them of all manner of bullsh-it and lies!!

Only other place I found the story that the AJC ran:

EVANSVILLE, Ind. (AP) — Eight soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division will be court-martialed on murder charges stemming from their service in Iraq, … journals.democraticunderground.com/kpete - 59k - Oct 18, 2006

Word for word from some obscure moonbat’s web blog.

They were so damn happy to hear of troops getting charged they didn’t bother checking accuracy, they rushed it to press.

By the way, nice touch AJC, sending me a postcard begging me to become a subscriber, get this, at under half the cost of the newsstand.

How’d you know I was running low on toilet paper?

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

ALG,

The story that you linked really makes a giant leap of faith in saying that in Bush V. Gore the ruling said a Federal election should be handled by Federal law.

I still haven’t heard one word of how it matters if the voters in one state use different machines than those in another. We have no elections where the votes count beyond a State level.

The story also does nothing to explain why handing someone a paper receipt would cover what I brought up earlier. This morning someone was whining that people couldn’t be expected not to lose their ID, if that’s the case there isn’t much chance of not losing vote receipts.

The writer even goes so far in the next to last paragraph of saying maybe people should vote electronic and paper, using the paper vote for any recount. Who can’t see a boatload of trouble with that?

I think your idea might be the best one. Keep tabulation sheets at the precinct level and make them part of the permanent archives. Cheaper too.

My guess is that the comment from “Why?” was a drive by, but I’ll address part of your response. You said:

{{{{{In a nutshell I am angry at the state our country is in due to the incompetence of the current administration.}}}}}

That statement certainly doesn’t leave much room for compromise or civil discussion with people that have a different view.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

This is worth a repeat, coming from the cut and paste Yahoo Spammer:

So King George has REALLY given the American serviceman $114.77-$105=$9.77/yr LESS compensation than Billy Clinton did in 1986

This moron really can’t comprehend these things.

All that bullsh-it it clutters the blog up with, the stupid son of a bit-ch doesn’t even understand any of it.

By Buy Danish

October 19, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

RE,

Just because Muslims come from Asia does not make them “Asians”, anymore than Christians who live in Canada are “North Americans”.

The Brits in particular use this trick so that they are not forced into the politically incorrect position of identifying Muslims as Muslims. It’s much easier to call them “Asians”.

By RE

October 19, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

It is an update of a previous story andy

By RE

October 19, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

BD, you are wrong. If you really have to be told why, it is not going to help any.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

OK ‘Filthy’ let’s try it for 1996 (sorry about the typo).

So in adjusted dollars, What cost $67 in 1996 would cost $81.33 in 2005.

This means that Clinton’s PEACE TIME raise was $1.54/wk as opposed to King George’s $1.98 WAR TIME raise. Considering the attendent risks of pulling a hitch in Iraq/Afghanistan as opposed to shining brass in peace time, I would still have to say that King George is paying LESS than Clinton. Maybe YOU think that an additional 45 cents/wk is worth putting YOUR life on the line during WAR TIME and YOU would probably be right considering that it would be YOU. Anybody else SHOULD think that you are absolutely NUTS ! ! !

Hopefully, SANE American citizens would still have to say that a $1.98/wk raise is MEAGER but evidently, not on Republican Fantasy Island ! ! !

Anybody else here get excited about an extra $1.98/wk ? ? ? Anybody think that the American serviceman is being fairly compensated for their WAR TIME service, today ? ? ? Remember, also, the many cuts in VA benefits that King George has screwed our servicemen with ! ! !

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 05:17 PM | Link to this

“That statement certainly doesn’t leave much room for compromise or civil discussion with people that have a different view.”

Surely you aren’t suggesting that there is anyone who can’t admit that this administration has commited blunders. I can point out a couple of Clinton’s blunders. NAFTA for one. Lying under oath for another. Can’t you think of even one instance of incompetence with Bush?

By RE

October 19, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

GOPher, you are kinda beatin a dead horse here. Your primary arguement is incorrect. War time service is supplemented with combat pay (I think, not sure). Just move on from this subject

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 05:25 PM | Link to this

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!! October 19, 2006 04:53 PM All that bullsh-it it clutters the blog up with, the stupid son of a bit-ch doesn’t even understand any of it.

Yeh, well THIS “stupid son of a bit-ch” has fought and killed on 3 continents so that YOU can sit on YOUR fat a*, raking in war-bucks, calling me names (boo-hoo-hoo), and CHEATING the American serviceman. You are a prime example of just what Republicans REALLY think of American servicemen and how they REALLY support our troops ! ! !

Poor bas-tard, at least ‘I’ don’t have to look at YOU in the mirror in the morning when I shave. That must REALLY suck ! ! !

By RE

October 19, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

ALG, $10 says the first response to your question will be cooperating with Ted Kennedy on the no child left behind.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

ALG,

Isn’t there a wide gulf between some blunders and complete incompetence. As much as people love to call some of us here Bushbots etc. all of us have our issues with things the Bush administration has done.

I for one don’t like the fact that instead of tearing down the dependence on government schools and pushing hard for a voucher system he added huge federal funding to it. There’s a lot of things like that, but I can’t think of anything this administration has done that would have been done better by a Gore or Kerry administration.

It probably won’t surprise you that I think NAFTA was one of the few things Clinton got right. Kosovo was another even though he actually lied us into a war in a country that posed no threat to us.

By bon scott

October 19, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

By drunken Andy - October 19, 2006 02:17 PM - Billy Clinton Years- $67 dollar per year raise. President Bush- $105 dollar a year raises. Hahahahahaha, “meager” cost of living increases, Gawd, these libs can lie blah blah

Yessiree, $105/year. Wow. Don’t spend it all in one place.

The extravagant pay raises that BushCo is giving our troops explains the lines at food banks near military bases

Leaders of the charitable groups say they’re scrambling to fill a need not seen since World War II.

Too often, the supplies run out before the lines do, said Regina Hunter, who coordinates food distribution at one Camp Pendleton site.

“Here they are defending the country… . It is heartbreaking to see.”

So your spouse is a half a world away fighting in a useless war during his/her umpteenth rotataion, and you have to beg for food.

And you’re going to vote GOP??

I doubt it.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 05:09 PM Hopefully, SANE American citizens would still have to say that a $1.98/wk raise is MEAGER but evidently, not on Republican Fantasy Island ! ! !

Dear Dumb A-ss Spam Terrorist: That’s a raise of the BASE pay, you stupid infantile moron. What your babbling about is called COMBAT PAY.

What a waste this loser is.

Recap:

Bush: $105 a month

Clinton: $67 a month

The losers lose again.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 05:35 PM | Link to this

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 05:25 PM Yeh, well THIS “stupid son of a bit-ch” has fought and killed on 3 continents so that YOU can sit on YOUR fat a*, raking in war-bucks, calling me names (boo-hoo-hoo), and CHEATING the American serviceman. You are a prime example of just what Republicans REALLY think of American servicemen and how they REALLY support our troops ! ! !

You took one in the head, didn’t you, stupid son of a bit-ch.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

REal civil?,

See d-ickhead ^ ^ I placed the whole blame on the Bush administration and left Kennedy out of it. Besides it’s unfair of you to try to take ALG’s money when you already know that out of control spending on government schools is an issue of mine.

Note to Paul: This comment was an example of what we discussed.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

RE- You only get ‘combat pay’ if you are stationed in a combat area. The comparison still holds because ‘Filthy’ and I were comparing standard pay rates without any additonal stipends. You, also, get stipends for a variety of duty stations such as nuclear subs (which stay down for as long as 3 months at a time), etc.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

Timeout.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 05:25 PM Yeh, well THIS “stupid son of a bit-ch” has fought and killed on 3 continents

And doesn’t know anything about combat pay?

See what I’m telling you about these lying pieces of sh-it liberals, they invoke these make believe war hero stories as a form of censorship.

F them.

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Cartoon Idea: Show the 300 millionth terrorist being born and he takes the doctor and two nurses hostage, demands the release of other sunni babies beld held in intensive care by shia interns, and cuts off the head of a cabbage patch doll as a warning for the US to get out of Iraq.

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Cartoon Idea: Show Osama Bin Laden making up an excuse for doing 911 by saying he was molested as a child by a catholic priest.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

“Kosovo was another even though he actually lied us into a war in a country that posed no threat to us.”

I can’t think of one war we’ve been in since WWII that was with a country that was a direct threat to us. Kosovo was similar to Darfur in that we were stopping mass genocide. Saddam killed his people too but not on the scale of Kosovo or Darfur. We would have done better to invade Darfur than Iraq which was a toothless regime that couldn’t have possibly been a threat to us or it’s neighbors.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

By finch October 19, 2006 05:31 PM Yessiree, $105/year. Wow. Don’t spend it all in one place.

Look at these dumb as-s mentally deficient liberals, I make a typo and they run with it.

$105 a month, why didn’t you catch my mistake, moron?

By Aunt Bea

October 19, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Cartoon Idea: Show North Korea holding Ucnle Sam at bay by threatiening to poke a hole in the “American Gothic” painting, or better yet, the “Elvis on Velvet” painting, or even better, because Republican Americans are rubes, the “Dogs playing Poker” painting.

Show Uncle Sam terrified, and saying, “No, dont! ANythig you want, sir!”

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

‘Filthy’ is still trying to ‘Fool ALL of the People ALL of the Time’. The Clinton pay increase of $87/mo (10 yrs ago) and the King George pay increase of $105/mo (in 2006) are both raises to the standard pay rate. Now if ‘Filthy’ wants to, also, compare the increase in COMBAT stipends, we can go there too. He might not be too proud of what he would learn, however ! ! !

Face it ‘Filthy’ you know as much about military service as Dickless Cheny does (ie- NOTHING) ! ! !

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

ALG,

WHAT???? Have you looked up what was ever found of the killing in Kosovo? It was a tiny fraction of what we were told and nowhere near what was going on in Iraq and likely in Darfur. There is every reason to believe that had we not intervened there would have been mass killings and for that reason I can give Billy Jeff a pass that what he did was the right thing.

Maybe you could drop off the “angry” portion of your name if you dealt more with fact than conventional wisdom.

By RE

October 19, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

It was just a guess RW.

Accurate though, and yes I did see where you left teddy out of it

By RE

October 19, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

It was just a guess RW.

Accurate though, and yes I did see where you left teddy out of it

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Filthy rests his case.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

by Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!! October 19, 2006 05:38 PM And doesn’t know anything about combat pay?

Well, Filthy, I know that ‘combat pay’ is a stipend that has always been paid as a add-on to the standard pay rate. Obviously it is ‘news’ to you, though (color me soooo surprsed) ! ! !

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!! October 19, 2006 05:38 PM- See what I’m telling you about these lying pieces of sh-it liberals, they invoke these make believe war hero stories as a form of censorship.

^^^Just one more example of how Republicans REALLY support the American serviceman ! ! !

BTW- I never claimed to be a hero, you’ll have to look in Arlington for one of those ! ! !

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

You’re right. By going into Kosovo we put an end to this. If Bush had not ignored Darfu it wouldn’t be near the tragedy that it is today.

What was going on in Iraq in the 10 years after Desert Storm, while tragic, was nowhere near as bad as what was escalating in Kosovo and what is STILL happening in Darfur.

Thanks but I’ll keep the Angry part because that’s just what Bush’s inaction in Darfur makes me.

Facts are just that while conventional wisdom doesn’t always equate to fact.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends October 19, 2006 06:04 PM Well, Filthy, I know that ‘combat pay’ is a stipend that has always been paid as a add-on to the standard pay rate.

Funny, I’ve never heard any veterans call their pay a “stipend.”

Spammer, I understand that the veteran’s administration has really improved it’s mental health care facilities under the Bush administration, you really should check it out.

Stupid lying son of a bit-ch.

By Buy Danish

October 19, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Let’s Recap a thread:

By RE October 19, 2006 04:38 PM | With all respect, most arab countries are in Asia or Africa, so most Muslims are Asian.

By Buy Danish October 19, 2006 05:00 PM RE, Just because Muslims come from Asia does not make them “Asians”, anymore than Christians who live in Canada are “North Americans”.

The Brits in particular use this trick so that they are not forced into the politically incorrect position of identifying Muslims as Muslims. It’s much easier to call them “Asians”.

By RE October 19, 2006 05:08 PM | BD, you are wrong. If you really have to be told why, it is not going to help any.

Dear RE (blog moderator),

I am not wrong, you are. Here is the wiki explanation of Asians, which is as good as any. To Wit - “Middle Easterners are usually not considered an Asian people and may not want to be labeled as Asians”

The next time you want to tell someone they are wrong, the CIVIL thing to do is to provide some evidence to back up your claim.

Sincerely yours,

Danish

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

By Angry Liberal Guy October 19, 2006 06:13 PM What was going on in Iraq in the 10 years after Desert Storm, while tragic, was nowhere near as bad as what was escalating in Kosovo

Critics of the sanctions say that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, disproportionately children, died as a result of them, [2] although certain skeptics claim the numbers to be less. [3] [4][5] UNICEF has put the number of child deaths to 500,000.[6] The reasons include lack of medical supplies, malnutrition, and especially disease owing to lack of clean water.

Saddam was building WMD and the French and Russians were getting rich off of food meant for children, cold blooded AGL says it was no big deal.

Great.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

ALG,

This is an interesting read about the Kosovo body count

It tells more of the true picture than your gory photos that try to pull on heartstrings, but don’t tell the true story.

Is there a reason that the UN shouldn’t do anything about Darfur and that it’s just Bush’s fault? The Bush administration has at least taken the step of labeling it genocide to try to pressure the UN. Granted that’s not enough and I would just get us out of the UN and kick their sorry butts out of the country, but that’s another issue altogether. What about Rawanda, now there was a real genocide that went completely ignored.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!! October 19, 2006 05:35 PM- You took one in the head, didn’t you, stupid son of a bit-ch.

Sorry I missed THAT one.

If I had, it would have been for you and your kids, cream-puff. Nice to know you appreciate it so much ! ! !

Funny thing is I WOULD bite the bullet for my God, my company, my country, and even for you, s**-brick ! ! ! I’m quite sure the logic entirely escapes you.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 06:32 PM | Link to this

ALG,

There’s also a pretty sure bet that you have no idea what was really going on in Iraq during that time

That’s Eason Jordan of CNN saying CNN covered up for Saddam’s atrocities.

By Angry Liberal Guy

October 19, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

“Saddam was building WMD and the French and Russians were getting rich off of food meant for children, cold blooded AGL says it was no big deal.”

Saddam building WMD? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How do you get “no big deal” out of “nowhere near as bad”?

You can’t possibly expect us to believe that Iraqi children are better off now than when Saddam was in power. Especially all the dead ones who would be alive had we not bombed their homes. And you call ME cold blooded.

I really try to be civil here but yur moronic statements just don’t warrant it.

By RE

October 19, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

Ok, I will break it down for you as simply as I can.

When catagorizing someone, you have to be consistent in what you are catagorizing. If you start with Asians, then you are using a continental classification. In order to be consistent, the next classification needs to be the same. Muslims are a religious group. Muslims live in Asia. It is a continent, it is very big, check a map. On that continent, all people are considered asian. Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, black, white, Indian…..All are considered Asian if they are from ASIA.

Do you get it now or should I continue?

If you want to push for having a new continent recognized as “Middle East” then go right ahead.

By RE

October 19, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

You left out the Houston oil men getting rich along with the french and germans.

Never trust a texas oil man

By Huge

October 19, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

bon scott,

While minutae moron argues figures, your point is the one that matters. As usual, he can’t see anything important through his partisan glaucoma, while the troops he claims to give a tinker’s damn about can’t even serve their tours in combat theaters and get the hell out. Where at least they can then barely make ends meet in relative safety. His kind, who’ve never even gotten close to a uniform, much less worn one, but thinks those who have are scum, should make all Americans sick.

RW,

Cook the books on intelligence to implement “regime change”. Then blame it on the Russians, French, Brits and Israelis. Disguise it as the utmost urgent national security issue. Mislead and obfuscate about connections between Iraq and OBL. Tell the UN and the international community they’re irrelevant. Create a coalition of the willing that you could realistically count on one hand. And really one other finger.

Tell the American people the most ludicrous stories and hope they buy it (amazingly many did!) - won’t wait for the mushroom cloud, we’ll be greeted with flowers, insurgency in it’s last throes, there’s no civil war. The list is long and exceptionally painful.

Divide Iraq into three autonomous regions. Don’t divide it. Add more troops. No we have enough on the ground. Should have added more troops originally. Reduce troops. Stay the Course. Take years to even begin admitting making obvious mistakes. Blame the media. Use fear as a political weapon.

What an unmitigated cluster fork! No end in sight. No significant plan to do anything but more of the same. 25,000 dead and wounded GI’s and counting. Perhaps a hundred thousand dead Iraqis. Four years and not even an inkling of internal security force or a functional, much less democratic government in sight. Can you say LBJ?

Oh yeah, and not even a sniff of OBL. Well there was that Tora Bora thing.

He HAS done a few things well and he hasn’t got caught getting any hummers in the white house. But on balance, IMHO, he’s been a train wreck. Maybe it just my take on things, but that sounds like incompetence to me.

And that’s why at last many, many of the American people have finally woken up to this. We’ll know in three weeks or so, but I’m pretty sure there are going to be repercussions.

By RE

October 19, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

GOP plan for victory!!!!

“As the hobbits are going up Mount Doom, the Eye of Mordor is being drawn somewhere else,” Santorum said. “It’s being drawn to Iraq and it’s not being drawn to the U.S. You know what? I want to keep it on Iraq. I don’t want the Eye to come back here to the United States.”

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

By Angry Liberal Guy October 19, 2006 06:33 PM Especially all the dead ones who would be alive had we not bombed their homes.

I know you are probably a “war hero” like Spammer and you “support” the troops, but the United States of America does not target innocent women and children like the Al Qaeda cutthroats, the same killers that you cheer on, do.

F off.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 06:47 PM | Link to this

Funny, I’ve never heard any veterans call their pay a “stipend.”

Color me sooooo surprised, again. Combat pay is one of many ‘stipends’, including hazardous duty pay (not neccesarily in combat, think- demolitions), sea duty pay (for swabbies), submarine pay (also for swabbies), etc. Servicemen have always received their standard pay rate with ‘stipends’ such as ‘combat pay’ that are broken out and listed seperately on their pay stubs.

‘Filthy’ really should pull a hitch unless he wants to continue making a complete FOOL of himself ! ! ! (if ANY branch of service would actually HAVE him that is)

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

RE: “The terrorists are Muslim, the Vietnamese are Asians.”

What don’t you understand here?

When did anyone say that Muslims were limited to Asia, except you?

We are fighting Islamic terrorism, ding, ding, does that ring a bell, and they could be British or even Americans.

All I pointed out to Hysterical Bishop Goldilocks is that the Vietnamese were not terrorists.

Nor are they Middle Easterners like most Muslims are, blow me.

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

To whom does one speak when advocating for a new Continent? I know RE’s “Asians” would like it to be one big happy Caliphate and eliminate that whole Continent thing.

Andy,

I think you brought out the A in ALG.

ALG,

We have lost many soldiers to keep from killing Iraqi innocents. One thing I didn’t agree with about Kosovo was bombing constantly from 50,000’. There’s no telling how many innocent people we killed doing that.

By Buy Danish

October 19, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

RE,

Most respectfully, just Because someone lives in Asia does not make them Asian. To repeat an earlier analogy, are you a North American? Or, should we be looking for Bin Laden in Vietnam?

RW,

Are you sure that our involvement with Kosovo was such a good idea? This is from the U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee from 1999, with the last paragraph being particularly important:

[No observer doubts that the large majority of fighters that have flocked to the KLA during the past year or so (since it began large-scale military operations) are ordinary Kosovo Albanians who desire what they see as the liberation of their homeland from foreign rule. But that fact — which amounts to a claim of innocence by association — does not fully explain the KLA’s uncertain origins, political program, sources of funding, or political alliances.}(http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/fr033199.htm)

Among the most troubling aspects of the Clinton Administration’s effective alliance with the KLA are numerous reports from reputable unofficial sources — including the highly respected Jane’s publications — that the KLA is closely involved with:

The extensive Albanian crime network that extends throughout Europe and into North America, including allegations that a major portion of the KLA finances are derived from that network, mainly proceeds from drug trafficking; and

Terrorist organizations motivated by the ideology of radical Islam, including assets of Iran and of the notorious Osama bin-Ladin — who has vowed a global terrorist war against Americans and American interests.

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

By RE October 19, 2006 06:36 PM You left out the Houston oil men getting rich along with the french and germans.

And don’t forget Marc Rich either who BILL CLINTON PARDONED, hey, what about that RE?

By Buy Danish

October 19, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

RE (Who I am trying to be nice to despite the fact that he is acting like a snot)

Addendum:

Muslims also live in North and South America, Africa, Europe and Australia. I have no data as to whether or not they are in Antarctica.

By GOPhers Ain’t MY Best Friends

October 19, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

Congratulations, ‘Filthy’. You made it onto my mailing list. My buds at IVAW will pass your concerns for the American serviceman along the pipeline. Got anything you’d like to add ? ? ?

Iraq Veterans Against the War

By RE

October 19, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Here are your choices;

North American

South American

Asian

European

African

Australian

and I guess Antarctican?

7 continents, what do you not get?

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Buy Danish,

Only as it pertained to preventing what was likely to become a mass slaughter based on what we knew or were told. It surely turned out to be a lie that got us there, but the Serbs weren’t any angels. We have a good chance of finishing Iraq before Kosovo. I just said I supported it at the time and don’t hold the body count up as a bludgeon against Clinton. It wouldn’t surprise me much if I later found out it was BJ hopping in the wrong bed.

By Huge

October 19, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Excuse me. I misspoke earlier when I said that Foley-loving suck had never been in a uniform. There was that neighbor’s kid who was in the cub scouts in the early 90’s…

Vote republican!!!

By Buy Danish

October 19, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

RW,

Isn’t it amusing that Huge Moonbat is putting forth a conspiracy theory that Bush is a storyteller who conspired to create false intelligence for our allies to convince them to go to war?

Huge also buys into the “Book of Darwin” without question.

By We're Gonna.....Raise......Your......Taxes!!!!

October 19, 2006 07:08 PM | Link to this

RE: Where is the continent of “Muslim” located??

Can’t you pick a better subject to crash and burn on?

By Cut Defense Spending!! Abandon The Troops!!! Vote democrat!!!

October 19, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

By Huge October 19, 2006 06:41 PM While minutae moron argues figures, your point is the one that matters. As usual, he can’t see anything important through his partisan glaucoma, while the troops he claims to give a tinker’s damn about can’t even serve their tours in combat theaters and get the hell out. Where at least they can then barely make ends meet in relative safety. His kind, who’ve never even gotten close to a uniform, much less worn one, but thinks those who have are scum, should make all Americans sick.

Who else could have shortened this paragraph up into a few words and made the same point with out the hot air?

Danish could you? RW? Spammer?

Blowhard: I singled out one thing from a list of many to help me illustrate what bald faced liars you pinko liberals are.

Thanks for backing my point up.

Moron.

The democrats lost 58,000 soldiers in Vietnam, Bush has lost 3,000 in Iraq. This is the number I use when deciding who cares about soldiers or not and guess who’s on the losing side of the ledger (hint: 58,000!)

You dumb a-ss liberals, with no military ingenuity like Rumsfeld has, rotated in untested, fresh from basic training, green soldiers that usually only lasted a day or two.

What “love” you had for them. It’s almost like you were hoping for them to fail!! If you make it through a whole year, or to put it in English, if you pull your head out of your a-ss within a year and not get killed, you can go home.

And we’ll send the next batch of greenies into the meat grinder.

Bush is making it hard on the troops but the experience they are getting is keeping them from getting killed the way you liberals killed them.

Blow me, Sheila.

By Foley Never Got This Sick

October 19, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

By pedophile bon scott freak September 29, 2006 06:58 PM Short eyes likes his boy toys!! Is that why you get juiced? Yummmmm… just watch their little legs!!By the way, what kind of lubricant do you and your boy-toys prefer? Do you use xanax or roofies to loosen them up, or does vodka alone do the trick?

By RW-(the original)

October 19, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Didn’t we start the day talking about some clown still getting tax payer dollars that shouldn’t?

I bet Ney is out of jail before we get this guy off the dole

BD,

It’s that whole thing I’ve been dealing with ALG about all day. Once a liberal believes something the only way to change their mind is to tell them you agree with them. It’s fun once in a while, but you feel really dirty afterward.