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Home > Opinion > Mike Luckovich > Archives > 2006 > July > 06 > Entry

I’m b-a-a-a-c-k

hello, everyone. i’ve returned from vacationing in florida. there will be a cartoon in thursday’s paper, but i haven’t settled on a topic yet. most likely, it’ll be on the stolen coke formula caper.

while at the beach in florida, i started reading ron susskind’s new book, the one percent doctrine. it is great. i’m only 100 pages in. (i have four children, so it’s hard to find reading time, even on vacation)

it”s an excellent behind-the-scenes account of what transpired after 9-11. so far, it’s been a sympathetic account of the administration’s struggles to go after the terrorists. both liberals and conservatives should buy this book.

on a different subject, this paragraph in the july 4th column by nicholas kristof really stood out-

“When I was covering the war in Iraq, we reporters would sometimes tune to Fox News and watch, mystified, as it purported to describe how Iraqis loved Americans. Such coverage (backed by delusional Journal editorials baffling to anyone who was actually in Iraq) misled conservatives about Iraq from the beginning. In retrospect, THE REAL VICTIMS OF FOX NEWS WEREN’T THE LIBERALS IT ATTACKED BUT THE CONSERVATIVES WHO BELIEVED IT.

Permalink | Comments (75) | Post your comment |

Comments

By getalife

July 6, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Mike.

I saw that article on FOX News and it is amazing how gullible these wingnuts really are.

I never watch it but did see crazy Bill smear your torture toon.

Thanks for the book suggestion.

By concerned citizen

July 6, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Mike,

You should do a cartoon of George W. looking into a mirror, mirror on the wall asking who’s the fairest (and balanced) of them all. The mirror would have a FoxNews emblem on the top.

By Midori

July 6, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Welcome Back, Mike.

You were sorely missed.

I read a similar article on the Huffington Post about Ron Suskind’s book.

Pssst. Pass it on: It’s Bill Clinton’s fault that Fox News and it’s supporters are morons.

By getalife

July 6, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this

Oh and Mike. Can I wash your car and babysit your kids for you?

Do you know any good movies I should see?

I drank a Coke this morning, I can’t wait to see your cartoon.

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Anybody that says all you get on Fox News is a rosy picture of Iraq, clearly doesn’t watch Fox News. They must get their descriptions from idiots like luckovich and Kristoff.

Nice Fourth of July tribute ml.

By getalife

July 6, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

Andy, stop wanking:

By getalife July 6, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this Oh and Mike. Can I wash your car and babysit your kids for you? Do you know any good movies I should see? I drank a Coke this morning, I can’t wait to see your cartoon.

I know you have mental problems and like to steal my rhetoric but take your meds. Try upping the dosage by 100%.

By al-Qaida = Muslim Neo-Cons

July 6, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Troops celebrate low-key 4th in Iraq

RAMADI, Iraq - It was a far cry from the Fourth of July parties a world away, but five U.S. Marines in one of Iraq’s most dangerous cities celebrated with what they had: a hookah, relaxing exhales of strawberry-scented smoke and thoughts of home.

Wow, dude. What war? Somebody call up W and get us some more weed, man. Damn, I can’t wait to mail some of this stuff home for later. Look at the pretty colors from those tracer bullets homie, awesome ! ! !

By Thank You Lea

July 6, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

This is much better.

Now if none of these wankers goes ape with the spam.

By Hey Mike, Today IS Thursday

July 6, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry, we won’t draw any cartoons about your little mistake. We’ll let it slide. It’s not like we’re democrats or anything.

Watch him withdraw the entry ^^^ and change it to something like “Today’s commentary.”

By al-Qaida = Muslim Neo-Cons

July 6, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Andy tell us that Lucko would be cleaning out his desk after “Pot to Kettle”? Looks like Andy and RW are as full of ‘Bush’ as they ever were!

By Dude, I Was On The Road

July 6, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

By getalife July 6, 2006 02:09 PM Andy, stop wanking:

Besides which, that post was ridiculous, so it couldn’t be mine.

Remember, stinging wit with dripping sarcasm.

By Cindy

July 6, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Mike. We were getting a bit stale here.

Hope you had a great vacation and enjoyed time with the kids.

Great column by Kristof.

By gadem

July 6, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

RW don’t you have some knick-knacks to sell on e-bay. Why don’t you give Andy a rim job while you are at it. RW and Andy the two most dellusional human beings in Atlanta. Andy collects a disability check, and thinks he is a veteran. RW sells “knick-knacks” on e-bay and think he owns a successful business. You two fill my days with so many laughs.

By Danish in Vacationland

July 6, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

ML,

For someone who doesn’t have time to read, you certainly manage to keep up with the Daily KOS’ talking points on a regular basis.

If you’re honestly looking for objective facts, you may want to wade through these newly translated documents:

This notebook thus provides significant evidence that the Saddam regime collaborated with and supported Islamic jihad elements in Afghanistan at a time when the Taliban and Al Qaeda were attacking United States citizens and their interests and plotting the 9/11 attacks.

By al-Qaida = Muslim Neo-Cons

July 6, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

‘Andy is the wanker’ anagrams to ‘Win sneaky hatred.’

‘Andy screws dogs’ anagrams to ‘Scrawny goddess.’

‘Andy is a pervert’ anagrams to ‘Saner depravity.’

‘Andy munches midori’ anagrams to ‘Yum! Rancid hedonism.’

‘Andy was born anally’ anagrams to ‘Braw, loyal, sad nanny.’

‘Andys head is up Ws ass’ anagrams to ‘Shadiness up sad ways.’

‘Andy has a little willy’ anagrams to ‘Wealthily saintly lad.’

‘Andy is a barf bag’ anagrams to ‘Fair and baby gas.’

By My Pleasure, gadem

July 6, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

The state Supreme Court reinstated Georgia’s constitutional ban on gay marriage Thursday, just hours after New York’s highest court upheld that state’s gay-marriage ban.

The Georgia Supreme Court, reversing a lower court judge’s ruling, decided unanimously that the ban did not violate the state’s single- subject rule for ballot measures. Superior Court Judge Constance Russell of Fulton County had ruled that it did.-Breitbart

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know the genesis of gadem squawking about ebay all the time lately?

By gadem

July 6, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

Danish, FOXNEWS is certainly an objective source. Aren’t they the ones that broke the story that WMD’s were found in IRAQ….but they left some information out.

By gadem

July 6, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Can a neocon answer this for me, why is Bush wanting to use diplomacy with N. Korea, but was dead set against it for Iraq? That is interesting….did he become smarter in three years….naw i doubt that. Whoever said that with age comes wisdom never met anyone like W…

By No secret anymore

July 6, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

The real reason George Bush has abandoned the search for Osama bin Laden

And here you thought he was just a coward with a very short attention span!

By gadem

July 6, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Has gay marriage ever been legal? I think that there are more pressing issues that need to be addressed, like rising fuel cost….oh I forgot, W gave us a tax break.

By More mush from the wimps

July 6, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

If the Faux news translations of old Iraqi documents were accurate, and they really proved their was a direct connection between Saddam Hussein and the Taliban/Osama, the White House would be shouting this from the rooftops.

If they’re not accurate, the White House wouldn’t say a word.

Which explains the silence from the White House.

By gadem

July 6, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

RW, I just want to buy some of your “knick-knacks”, but I want a good price. DOn’t get so hostile…nothing wrong with selling junk…errr “knick-knacks” on e-bay. As long as it is legal and pays the bills.

By @@

July 6, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Well look ml’s b-a-a-a-ck.

Why no cartoon on Independence Day? Let me guess, it would have been one where GW, feet in stirrups, was giving birth to Iraq. Think of the old one, “You’re so ugly, I had to slap your Papa”. You certainly wouldn’t have “smacked the baby” and allowed it to take it’s first breath. You’d leave it gasping.

You’re focused!!! Problem is, you’re not looking in the birth canal for the baby.

By Danish in Vacationland

July 6, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Gadem,

The FACT is that it was Rick Santorum and Peter Hoekstra who “broke the story on WMDs in Iraq” - Fox just reported it, which is commendable since the rest of the MSM prefers to ignore stories like this.

Mush for brains,

I know that circumstantial evidence is difficult for you Leftists to comprehend. It’s the OJ Jury Syndrome at work, where even if we had a video of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein conspiring to work together you’d find some reason to dismiss it. Is it any wonder that the White House is reluctant to push this stuff? It’s too difficult to explain to you wankers.

Meanwhile, have you checked out Ray Robinson’s resume’? He’s the one translating this stuff. Fox is just reporting it. See above^ to Gadem.

Later.

By gadem

July 6, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

OH yeah Danish report an inaccurate story…wonder why the “MSM” would stay away from a story like that?

By Marion of Texas

July 6, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Welcome back, Mike! I was out of the country for a couple of weeks and really missed your cartoons. I am looking forward to your next one!

Kristof’s column is a good one.

By Midori

July 6, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

someone needs to let @@ know that she has the sense of humor of a dead, decaying fish.

Her jokes smell similar to that fish.

Of course, it’s all Bill Clinton’s fault.

By @@

July 6, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

gadem:

Another source that’s keeping up with the documents and their significance. from Danish’s link.

But only if the truth is your objective gadem. “Democratic Underground” may have more along the lines of what you’re looking for though. ‘Ya think? You’re welcome to take your “knick-knacks” over there.

Check out the guy’s credentials at the bottom of the page.

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

gadem,

I’m getting ready to sell a bunch of Air America tote bags, make me an offer.

I thought you guys got upset when the true stories came out. The New York Times and our boy Nicholas Kristoff reported that Dick Cheney sent Joe Wilson to sip tea in Niger. When the truth was told you guys went ballistic. So tell me, is it truth you want or just to silence any dissenters?

By gadem

July 6, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

RW the truth shall make us all free of Bush. GOD will deliver us from him. Besides W is going to hell because he is being blasphemous against GOD. Will you be joining Bush?

By @@

July 6, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Fair enough Midori. You think my sense of humor smells. I can go to pictures like you.

Get down for Bill and schmellllllll!!!!

Look at that smile.

By Danish in Vacationland

July 6, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Gadem,

Please tell us specifically what was “inaccurate” about Santorum/Hoeskstra’s WMD story.

I’ll be back later to deal with your specific claims.

@@,

Maybe it’s my stone age computer, but I can’t open your links…

By Midori

July 6, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

@@,

It’s all Bill Clinton’s fault that your’e a complete idiot.

Keep right on posting the stupid jokes and proving me and Bill right.

By Nurse Mildred Ratched

July 6, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

If Mr. gadem doesn’t want to take his medication orally, I’m sure we can arrange that he can have it some other way. But I don’t think that he would like it.

gadem,

That 4:10 might have moved you into a slight lead to see just who’s the craziest moonbat on this blog.

/RW-(the original) standing in for Louise Fletcher.

By Midori

July 6, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

Gadem,

your are right on target

By @@

July 6, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

Midori:

I’m sorry you’re so “down in the dumps” today. <:(

Did you see ^^^ where I gave you a point?

By @@

July 6, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Sorry Danish. Just in case it’s not your computer, the first link is: http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=1926&cid=11&sid=61

It may not be the lastest translation of documents, but just to show gadem that there are other sources.

The second one was for Midori, and she’s not in a good mood today so there’s no point. But I gave her a point on top of her head.

I try to be nice.

By Jay not jay

July 6, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Wow, the far left angry libs here are getting whipped up into a frenzy. Good thing their political sensei ml has finally returned. Otherwise they would have continued cannibalizing themselves. Oh wait, they still are!

By Big Ed

July 6, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Gee Mike, you sure surprised us with your slanted views. Of course anyone who has to go through Cynthia Tucker for approval will know if it looks like garbage and smells like garbage, it…well you get the picture.

By MJK

July 6, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Mike!!!! I miss my daily dose of humor. Hope you had a nice time with the kiddies.

By N-GA

July 6, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this

Welcome home, Mike. Unfortunately not much has changed during your vacation. U.S. forces are still in Iraq, even though they are unwelcome and some of them appear to have been behaving badly. The government is still spending more money than it is bringing in. The GOP is worried about the upcoming elections, so they are doing the classic sleight-of-hand by keeping gay marriage, flag burning, and immigration issues on top of the political priority list to keep the American voter’s eye off the real issues. Bush’s buddy Ken passed away. To paraphrase a line from “Clerks”, “He’ll be missed!”.

I hope you had the opportunity to chat with Katherine Harris while you were in Florida. Maybe she’ll listen to your advice and stay in the race. She is soooooooo…I don’t know quite how to say it…sooooooo Ann Coulter-like. They could be brother and sister.

The storm trooper gang is alive and well here on your blog. Andy, RW, @@, Dusty and Buy Danish were their usual fascist selves. Absolutely nothing new there…not an original thought between them…just cutting and pasting from those neo-con news sources.

BTW, is Rupert Murdoch an illegal immigrant, or does he have a green card?

By Hahahaha

July 6, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Another pinko loss at the polls:

Mexican conservative wins tight election battle-Reuters

Even the Mexicans don’t want your BS.

By "War" "Hero"

July 6, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

By N-GA July 6, 2006 05:52 PM The government is still spending more money than it is bringing in.

No sheet, Sherlock. Wanker.

How much did you think the Veteran’s Administration paid out for fake service?

As-shole.

By N-GA

July 6, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Oh Mike…I forgot to mention this, but Osama is still missing, and the administration has lowered the priority for catching him. Yes, I know. You’re not surprised in the least.

By @@

July 6, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

Ha:

Good news on Calderon’s win south of us.

N-GA:

No matter how much you would like to believe it, I’m not a facist. You just don’t like my political views. That’s it in “your nutshell”.

By N-GA

July 6, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

Hey “War” “Hero”,

The only money the Veteran’s Administration paid out for fake service went to you and George W. Bush.

By Where's Osama?

July 6, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

Anybody notice how the Bush folks are avoiding these “revelations” over Iraqi WMDs like the plague?

They know the stories have more holes than a screen door.

N-GA - Rupert Murdoch is a naturalized US citizen. Amazing what money can buy!

By There Goes The Trial Lawyer Campaign Contributions

July 6, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

What do you know, a victory for sanity:

Fla. Court Rejects $145 Billion Tobacco Verdict-NewsMax

And another loss for you liberal scolds.

By Cindy

July 6, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

@@,

I read your 4:04 link with interest. I found it very scary if totally true.

The administration had would have had info on the location of WMD before the invasion. Did they choose not to heed this intelligence? Why didn’t they just tell the UN inspectors about this intelligence and ask them to go look at these sites?

Or they are going to pull it out of their @@@@s and use it for a political game.

Either way they have put the US citizens in a very dangerous position and really insulted the US military by so badly using them.

By getalife

July 6, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

Calderon’s win is a win for the merging of North America.

W said today, he wanted to make it easy for illegal immigrants to enter this country.

The agenda is for cheap labor and free trade to compete in the global market.

In other words, our government is selling out and America as we know it will cease to exist.

Cheer on wingnuts.

By @@

July 6, 2006 06:42 PM | Link to this

Is N-GA the only veteran that ever served? Did he lose that war all by himself. To hear him brag, you would have to think he did.

But the rest of us know there were others, but in his arrogance, he fails to recognize them.

Shameful display of pomp and circumstance.

By Danish in Vacationland

July 6, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

@@,

I wish that N-Ga could spend some time under the yoke of some real fascists. He’d miss us soon enough.

Thanks for reposting that link, which among other things has more nasty medicine for Nurse Ratched’s patient to swallow. I wonder if he would prefer castor oil?

finch/Seeker ,

You may want to read that link^^ too. Don’t buy any Iraqi perfume. When they call it poison, unlike Christian Dior, they aren’t kidding around.

Come to think of it, since you all are so confident that the recent WMD finds are meaningless, I wonder how many of you would volunteer to prove that Sarin loses its lethal power over time?

By N-GA

July 6, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

Hello @@….post just ONE instance where I brag about my service. You lying SOS…you on the other hand have given nothing for your country, and don’t go telling us about your relative’s service. You have done nothing!!! Not a single sacrifice……useless t**t!

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Every time a lib fails in their attempt to steal an election we get to hear getalife whine. I didn’t know this was going to be an international occurrence. What’s a matter getalfe, was Lopez-Gorebrador going to give you that sugar cane farm?

By Semper FI

July 6, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

I’m b-a-a-a-c-k. Haven’t posted in 3-5 months but have occasionally dropped in for a view. I see liberals are just as lost as ever in their whacko reality. I have given up all hope on Getalife being able to think for himself. Andy is still the man driving moonbats crazy(I love it). N-GA and Rushncrap are prez and VicePrez of that whacko reality. RW is still the hands down winner in all debates. Finch is a close fourth in the three discussions.

Now NGA and other moonbats can go on and on about I was never in the military. Makes’em feel good.

Have nice day..

By @@

July 6, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

Well, the pomp is still there with N-GA and the circumstances allow him to behave childishly with his 6:52 post.

SOS and t*t indeed ^^^.

By This Could Be Viewed As A Loss

July 6, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

RW: If the libs had won that election in Mexico, the pinkos would have been so happy they probably would have moved down there.

So calling this a “victory” for us may be a bit strong.

It’s really got to suck for them, what’s this, the 20th year of the winless streak?

Oh, I forgot, they “won” in Cuba last year.

And they can’t even blame Diebold.

By Scooter

July 6, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

N-GA, bragging can be in the form of knocking others down to build yourself up. We’ll just look at your last post to @@ for an example of that.

By "War" "Hero"

July 6, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

@@: Just be thankful that you aren’t a Vietnamese village woman, N-GA would have laid some good old fashioned atrocities upon you.

He’s so brave.

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

@@,

N-GA may be right about one thing. The only things I’ve seen him brag about very often are that he’s supposed to be a filthy rich retiree that thinks the rest of us should pick up the tab for his family’s health care and that he’s a registered independent in a state where nobody registers by party.

Semper Fi,

Stick around, maybe you can draw a few more of Sybil err… finch’s personalities out. It’s a hoot when two of his names fight with each other.

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 07:31 PM | Link to this

Andy,

On the other hand they might have seen a win down there as a sign they could win here. Now, with the realization that they can’t even steal a Mexican election, maybe they will finally go to the various places they keep threatening to move to.

By This Should Have finch Quaking With Fear

July 6, 2006 08:26 PM | Link to this

How long before they launch one that lands on King Ill’s palace?

North Korea angrily mocked international criticism of its multiple missile tests, threatening on Thursday to fire off more rockets. In the face of nearly unanimous world condemnation of the seven missile tests on Wednesday, Pyongyang’s foreign minister released a blustery statement declaring that it had the right to develop and test its weapons _ and vowing unspecified retaliation against anyone who tries to stop it.

Hiding under the bed, vichy finchy?

It’s a good thing Bush is prez instead of Seeker, cuz North Korea ain’t getting the billions in aid money they’re trying to extort from us.

Who do they think we are, a nation of Clintons?

By N-GA

July 6, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

Fascinating,

I believe that RW’s last post proves he is the alter ego of Andy. What a punk. I don’t have any need to brag. Only Andy has suggested that I think the public should pick up my daughter’s healthcare tab. Prove that statement, you gutless wonder. Semper Fi, where have I ever suggested that you didn’t serve? I always feel that anyone with the nerve to claim they serve probably did (except GWB, he was helping in an Alabama election). Are you prone to lying just like all the other fascist neo-cons? And @@, you dodge the issue once again. You can’t weasel out of your accusation, unless you want to plead “nuance”. Scooter, I suggest you read all preceding posts before you make a stupid comment about one of mine. Talk about Pot to Kettle. You all keep mentioning that I brag, so I will. I am GREAT for kicking all of you in the teeth tonight with the TRUTH!!!

By RW-(the original)

July 6, 2006 09:23 PM | Link to this

N-GA,

A lying little pansy like you couldn’t kick someone in the teeth if they were biting your foot.

I think the rest of us were gullible and Andy is the only one that saw what a worthless pos liar you are right from the start.

By @@

July 6, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

N-GA or whomever he is, is back and repeating the same mistakes he made earlier. Amazing!!! My teeth are intact and pearly white, if I may be so bold as to say so myself. I might be back in archives most of tomorrow, until I get bored, that is.

Cindy/Or?:

You would have to ask Clinton about Iraq prior to 2000. He was the President then and obviously concerned.

I’m thinking that this part of Clinton’s speech probably has something to do with why the search might have been difficult.

Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM.

But hey, the evidence is there and now you want to ask why. But I think your motives are clear. You’d rather shake a Bush because the world is scary right now.

Did you ever see “Cool Hand Luke”? Great movie. “I’m a shakin’ it boss, I’m a shakin’ it.”

I’ve always thought that the purpose of our military was to protect us. And I am forever grateful and appreciative of their efforts.

By @@

July 6, 2006 10:46 PM | Link to this

N-GA/OR?:

BTW, you have repeatedly called Andy a liar about his service. But then I guess it’s personal between you and Andy or at least, it sure looks that way.

You want all the answers to all the questions to be yours.

By N-GA

July 7, 2006 06:30 AM | Link to this

There is (singular) RW, @@ and Andy…all three persona’s foaming at once.

@@, once again you lie. Troll (that you are) back through the archives and produce one post where I called into question Andy’s claim of military service. While you’re at it, notice how many times he denied my service. Then notice when he said he would “take care of my daughter” and show her what a “real man” was like. What a perv. If you’re not Andy, then you back him up.

RW…when you said most of you (fascists) were gullible, you hit the nail on the head. You have to be gullible to believe the doo-doo you post here….or twisted….or just plain stupid.

And the reason I kicked your collective behinds is you were unable to produce a shred of evidence about your accusations. It’s a good thing this dialog will be here for one and all to review. Cut and paste, errrrr, I mean cut and run you cowards.

By CDC

July 10, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

BULL

By hewhoasks

July 10, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Re: the real victims.

If there’s a con man doing the shell game (which shell hides the pea?) on the street there’s probably a lot of people watching and a couple who take part and try to win. the watchers aren’t the victims, the ones who willingly participate are.

The people who know the administration and Fox are liars aren’t the victims, the people who believe the administration and Fox are.

By Brian Campbell

July 13, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

I know a lot of soldiers and marines who have come back from Iraq. They say exactly what fox news said. I tend to believe people i KNOW have been there

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