Atlanta Opinion

By getalife

February 6, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

I guess you did hear about Reed. Good one Mike.

By Brian Curtis

February 6, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

Good work, Mike. Reed shouldn’t escape the shame of his criminal behavior either.

By Brian Curtis

February 6, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget, folks; the Abramoff scandal isn’t just at the national level. We’ve got our own corrupt little zealot right here in Georgia too. $4 million from Abramoff, capping an illustrious career of dirty campaigning, subverting the Constitution, and association with the inhumanly evil Christian Coalition.

The man never had any respect for democracy, and surely doesn’t respect the intelligence of Georgia voters. Bring this corrupt slimeball down!

By getalife

February 6, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

Right hand of God?

By Dirk

February 6, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

I like the cartoons that show bombs in the Islamo Terrorists hats, why don’t you try one of those, I hear it’s a big hit in the Middle East.

By George

February 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Oh no, leave him in the race.

I think Reed represents the Republican party well.

By getalife

February 6, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Is Reed in there?

By Andy

February 6, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

These moonbats have been in here all day ranting and raving about Bush’s evil plan for this and Bush’s “treasonous�? conspiracy for that. They’ve told us that Bush is going to repeal the Constitution and do away with the right’s of the American citizens. And as far as I can tell, him and Cheney will get their jolly’s off while they’re doing it.

The one easy to answer, all encompassing question that I have in response to all this madness: When is he going to start doing all of these terrible things? Where are these vast, massive prison complexes where all of the pinkos are locked up at? Can any of you crackpots name one person that has been caught up in this roll back of human rights? Just one?

By Semper Fi

February 6, 2006 08:35 PM | Link to this

Where did all the moonbats liberals go??? Is there a talking points meeting?? I know, you’re watching Bill O’Reilly.

By Liberal Texas Democrat

February 6, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

Christian Coalition, ‘cause you know Jesus was nothing more than a politician who couldn’t afford to run for office.

By getalife

February 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

I just saw this ad on CNN.

By Dusty

February 6, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Well, I enjoyed a good dinner. Came back. Read the previous blog. And SURPRISE, I have turned into a TERRORIST. Must have been something I ate. Oh but wait This comes from Brian and Kimberly, the Moonbat twins. Sooooo no worry. With those two calling me names, I must be doing something right.

Now, on to more moonbatism. Luckovich!

By RW-(the original)

February 6, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi,

They must be getting the new attack lines. Helen Thomas finished the Nixon trifeccta today.

By Semper Fi

February 6, 2006 09:13 PM | Link to this

RW, I am sure when they finish it up, Getalife will be sure to point us to the link. He’s a democrat in denial, but a nice.

By Objective Observer

February 6, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Got up, thought I’d catch up. Saw Getalife’s link I’m gone. Thanks Getalife.

By getalife

February 6, 2006 09:20 PM | Link to this

How come y’all do not want to talk about Ralph Reed? Is he a hypocrite? Are y’all part of his coc coalition?

By getalife

February 6, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi,

I am not a Dem.

By Semper Fi

February 6, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

Getalife, and Hollyweird is not liberal..

By hterrya

February 6, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi, what’s all this psychopathic hatred of those you label “liberal” (as if you knew what the word actually means)?

That’s all you do is hate, hate, hate!

I know Jesus is proud of you. (Ralph Reed told me so!) {:-)

By Semper Fi

February 6, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

hterrya, you sooooo funnnny…

By hterrya

February 6, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi, you sooooo psychopathic (sorry psychopathic is not a one syllable word - hope you can understand it!)

psy·cho·path·ic (sº�?k…-p²th“¹k) adj. 1. Of, relating to, or characterized by psychopathy. 2. this text will be boldedRelating to or affected with an antisocial personality disorder that is usually characterized by aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior.

By WillT

February 6, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

People:

We are not a fearful nation. We are Americans! Despite the current administration’s playing the 9/11 card at almost every turn, we are not afraid!

What we want is a message that says: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself” rather than this continual harping on 9/11.

Doggonitatall, stand up and say “we are not afraid of al Qaeda, and we’re going to burn their butts just as soon as the fools in the White House find them.”

By hterrya

February 6, 2006 10:45 PM | Link to this

Whoops! I’m technology-impaired but unlike Semper Fi, I’m not psychopathic (Ralph Reed told me so!). However I am funnnny (Semper Fi told me so!) {:-)

By finch

February 6, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

Right now, for tonight only, I’m afraid of Ralph Reed! He’s got some real continuity problems….

By finch

February 6, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

RW! getalife!!

Both your blogs are down! I feel…. lost!

By RW-(the original)

February 6, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

finch,

It’s scheduled maintenance to fix all the stuff that happened over the weekend. They were supposed to be up at 11:00. In fact I just checked and mine is back up.

By Mike

February 6, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

The issue isn’t the collection method.

Anyone with a brain knew the US was intercepting electronic communications, before and after 9/11. That included our enemies.

The issue isn’t the effectiveness of the methods.

The methods are not effective. By public admission, more than 5000 people have been spied upon. Less than 10 people have been identified as due further investigation.

There has not been one arrest, trial, and conviction.

Those supporters of the program have only smoke and mirrors distractions when confronted by legal issues as well as substantiated results.

The issues are in the Constitutional proportionment of power among three separate branches and the inability of any branch of government to set aside the Bill of Rights.

The executive branch can set aside our rights but only when in conjunction with the judicial branch. And, that must happen before setting aside our rights. Our rights precede creation of this government or any other government.

If we had no rights, we would not have a government or recourse our day in court.

It is an error to think this government or any government provides our rights.

Governments, it is said, are established among men, not upon them.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 02:57 AM | Link to this

Quotes for 02/06/06

“It’s Bush’s defenders who are embracing the most liberal and utopian view of human nature with their ‘trust me’ argument, a view that would cause the Founding Fathers to weep,” Fein said. “The real conservatives are the ones who treasure the original understanding of the Constitution, and clearly this is inconsistent with the separation of powers.”

Bruce Fein, Former Justice Dept. Official under Reagan

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said that if investigators need more time to fill out the warrant application, Congress should change the law to extend the deadline. But, he said, court orders ought to remain part of the process to ensure that government surveillance power is never used against the political enemies of whomever is in power.

"Some liberals think of gun owners as terrorists," he said.

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America

and finally:

“My criteria for judging this stuff is what would a President Hillary do with these same powers,” said Paul M. Weyrich, the influential writer and leader of the Free Congress Foundation, a think tank. “And if I’m troubled by what she would do, then I have to be troubled by what Bush could do, even though I have more trust in Bush than I do in Hillary.”

By Andy

February 7, 2006 04:36 AM | Link to this

Is this a challenge to cartoon boy or is it jihad?:

IRAN’S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 04:40 AM | Link to this

This is what passes for damning evidence that survellience is harming Americans:

The methods are not effective. By public admission, more than 5000 people have been spied upon. Less than 10 people have been identified as due further investigation.

There has not been one arrest, trial, and conviction.

By Mike

February 6, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

P.S. You don’t arrest Al Qaeda, simpleton, you kill them. We may never know how many this program has exposed.

Aren’t these libs just so brilliant?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 05:02 AM | Link to this

In another sign of the growing rift between Iraqi insurgents and al Qaeda, over the weekend an influential Sunni sheik in Anbar province condemned the foreign terrorists in his midst and blamed them for the deaths of civilians.

“We realized that these foreign terrorists were hiding behind the veil of the noble Iraqi resistance,” Sheik Osama al-Jadaan, head of the Karabila tribe in western Iraq,” told the Christian Science Monitor. “They claim to be striking at the U.S. occupation, but the reality is they are killing innocent Iraqis in the markets, in mosques, in churches, and in our schools.”

By Andy

February 7, 2006 05:03 AM | Link to this

Saddle up, cowboys:

A particularly bad strain of chlamydia not usually seen in this country appears to be slowly spreading among gay and bisexual men, an infection that can increase their chances of getting or spreading the AIDS virus.

By Frank Sarrantonio

February 7, 2006 05:29 AM | Link to this

I did not have a preference regarding XL Superbowl. I was watching because I enjoy football. However, after watching the game I have one thing to say: SuperBowl XL MVP = Referees

By Liberal Texas Democrat

February 7, 2006 05:56 AM | Link to this

willT posted: “Doggonitatall, stand up and say “we are not afraid of al Qaeda, and we’re going to burn their butts just as soon as the fools in the White House find them.�?

Exccept that when that happens the “state of war” that currently exists primarily as a device to frighten the populace and dismantle the constitution will disappear. Ergo the fools in the Whilte House have no real motivation to find,and or capture any of the enemies that serve them so well. Kind of like negotiating with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election of Reagan. Ssame crowd, same playbook.

By Dollar Bill

February 7, 2006 06:24 AM | Link to this

So Goldman Sachs says GW’s budget is unrealistic. Well duh.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 06:44 AM | Link to this

You’re spending too much!

You’re not spending enough!

“I think the clear message you can take away from this budget is that for children and families and veterans and seniors, you’re on your own,” Mrs. Clinton said. “This budget represents a failure of priorities … while the president is asking the nation to tighten our belts, we don’t see that sacrifice shared by everyone.”

Your spying on our enemy!

Your not doing enough to protect us!

By physicsdawg

February 7, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this

I hope Andy is right about IRAN’s contest for Cartoons about the Holocaust. I hope (If any of the radical muslims know how to use a pen for anything but faking passports) they come up with the most despicable images seen lately. Then the “West” can show them how to have outrage, without calling for Beheadings, Bombings, etc.
But then, if we don’t riot and destroy, they’ll probably just say our religions are weak…

By Lewis Marks

February 7, 2006 07:26 AM | Link to this

You see, all one has to do is to miantain a youthful, freshly scrubbed appearance and then carry a Bible around. The result is that inside you can be the most corrupt, filthy person, but guess what? People can’t see beyond that!

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 07:34 AM | Link to this

Has anyone ever questioned why you can only link to text in “blue” on this site?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 07:39 AM | Link to this

Thomas Sowell is the Man:

Looking back at the history of tragic times often reveals that many — or most — of the people of those times were often preoccupied with things that look trivial, or even pathetic, in view of the catastrophe looming over them. Will later generations looking back at our times see a similar blindness, and even frivolousness, in the face of mortal dangers?

Terrorists and terrorist governments are giving us almost daily evidence of their fanatical hatred and violent sadism, as the clock ticks away toward their gaining possession of nuclear weapons.

Yet what are we preoccupied with or outraged about? Whether the American government should intercept the phone calls of these cutthroats to people in the United States.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 07:43 AM | Link to this

Debra Saunders is the Woman:

If anyone can show me that the National Security Agency, under order from President Bush or top aides, eavesdropped on Hillary Clinton or Ted Kennedy or some prominent partisan critic, I’ll change my tune and see what this administration is doing as a threat to civil liberties. Until then, I can only see the attacks on an NSA surveillance program — on Monday the Senate Judiciary Committee grilled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales over the program that allowed officials to data-mine information from international phone calls and the Internet — as ill-conceived, partisan and dangerous.

By AntiRadical

February 7, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

Ralph Reed, Jim Baker, Pat Robertson, Bishop Paulk, Catholic sex-priests, Jimmy Swaggert, …

The religious right’s “Hall of Shame” keeps growing, and growing, and growing… regular little energizer bunnies.

“As you’ve probably heard, the Pope has asked all the Cardinals to return to Rome. You know how they got them all to come back? They told them that there was going to be a performance by the Vienna Boys Choir.” —Jay Leno

Send Reed to prison to get him some help. His bowel impaction is why he is so full of …Bush. Boys in the pen can help him “loosen-up” and “clear his mind”.

By George

February 7, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this

Andy

Noone cares if you change your tune or not. The subject for today is Ralph Reed. Can you foncus on that for a while? Is it possible?

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this

It seems that other cartoonists did not listen to Mike on CNN.

By LiberalsAreBigots

February 7, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

Its great to see liberals spew their bigoted hatred fro Christians.

LIBERALS ARE BIGOTS

By KeepGodoutofourSchools

February 7, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

But its bad to see incompetence in politicians, like all Christian elected leaders.

By AntiRadical

February 7, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this

“The Cardinals will be staying at the Domus Sanctae Marthae, the new hotel at the Vatican, where turn down service means the bell boy isn’t interested.” —Daily Show host Jon Stewart

“They say (the Pledge of Allegiance) violates the separation of church and state. How about the separation of church and altar boy? That’s what I’m worried about.” —Jay Leno

“Cardinal Law had difficulty with his memory under oath today. He could only remember three commandments. Under oath, Cardinal Law said ‘I do not recall’ 43 times. I’m telling you, this guy is presidential material.” —David Letterman

“The House Transportation Committee is now considering a bill that would allow pilots to carry guns for protection. I’ve got a better idea, why not give guns to altar boys, give them a fighting chance.” —Jay Leno

“In Boston, it looks like Cardinal Bernard Law isn’t going to be punished. It turns out he’s getting transferred to Rome, which is kind of like a promotion. He said today he wanted to thank all the little people.” —Jay Leno

“The Church reaffirming celibacy — it’s kind of like Clinton reaffirming monogamy.” —Jay Leno

“Today the Catholic Church unveiled its new policy. Don’t ask, don’t confess.” —Jay Leno

“There is a big conference of Catholic Bishops in Dallas. Well this is great for the city, it brings in about $12 million in hush money.” —David Letterman

“The Supreme Court ruled today that virtual child pornography is legal. Finally, some good news for the church.” —Jay Leno

“The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.”- Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 2/1/33.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

Luckovich: I have been cartoonist here since 1989. I’ve had my share of great hypocrites to comment on: Bill Campbell, Zell Miller, Newt Gingrich, Pat Swindall. These great characters. But I think this guy has to win the prize. To be this holier-than-thou guy who says that gambling is evil and at the same time is secretly making [money] from it ? he is pathetic. I do not like that guy… . I really enjoyed that cartoon. There’s fuzzy dice on him, and I’ve got these religious signs plus the cards in the war bonnet.

By Stan

February 7, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

Mike Luckovich is a coward. He can pick on Protestants, Catholics,and Republicans because he can get away with it. Let’s see him do one on babykilling, beheading, woman bashing, intolerant dregs like radical Muslims. He’s scared and intimidated. What a spineless moron!

By gadem

February 7, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Andy, are you excited that Bush is going to be in Georgia today?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

Dear George @ 8:16: If you want me to talk about Ralph Reed it would require that I also bring up his opponent Mark Taylor. This is an awfully touchy subject for a Conservative, as we actually do respect someone’s “right to privacy,” we just don’t say it like you pinkos do. I could even use the example you lowlife liberals set when you giggled about Jeb Bush’s family problems but I feel that is beneath me, I am better than you democrats.

So I talk about NSA topics instead. Deal with it. You pinkos can stay with the politics of personal destruction.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

gadem, this just might be the day that chicken little Andy cuts through the shrink wrap still around his house from Y2K, dons his kevlar diaper, terror proof vest, steel soled boots, kevlar helmet, takes a good look around for all the terrorist waiting to kill his dumb little a$% as he sneaks out the door, and rushes down to the funeral to plant a big wet sloppy one right on his stickbud George’s lips. What a red letter day for Andy. Of course my bet is that he decides to stay hidden under his bed blogging all day.

By Edd Williams

February 7, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

You really need to learn that your far-left heroes are much bigger crooks, liars and hypocrites than any Republican!!!

By Dollar Bill

February 7, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Newt Gingrich invented the “politics of personal destruction.” It doesn’t get more republican than Newt. Yet the Newt turned out to be one of the biggest hypocrites of the whole crew. Divorced one wife on her death bed, cheated on another while putting the “Lewinsky” to Clinton, and wound up, surprise surprise having to vacate his position and the moral high ground.

By PrayingforAmerica

February 7, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

The day Americans place a level of importance on a man’s religious background before electing him to office is the day that Americans become a step closer to Al-Qaeda

By Andy's Mom

February 7, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

DawgBite, I sure hope you’re right. Andy really needs to get out of the house. He’s been hiding under his bed since the last Osama Bin Laden threat a couple weeks ago. The family tried an intervention but he wouldn’t stop typing on the internet, he would just mumble “have to attack pinko, have to attack pinko.” He spends his whole life attacking pinkos and I don’t even know what a pinko is, I think it might be a gay thing, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Andy’s shrink thinks I should just cancel my internet service, but I know he would kill himself. Oh dear.

By jpetz

February 7, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this

Lets hear from Ralph Reed supporters and why they believe Reed is the best person the state has to offer to become Lt. Governor. At that point I will gladly refute every possible positive comment on this guy. Reed has a simple formula for success - he believes most evangelical Christians are suckers for anyone proclaiming to be doing work in the name of Jesus. This is the same philosophy used by hypocrites such as Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, and Pat Robertson. Wake up my fellow Christians, lest you be fooled once again.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

It constantly amazes me the amount of hate speech thrown at religion on this blog. Sure there are some bad guys like Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed that claim to represent Christians, but to make statements that paints all believers as being embodied by those two is a joke. Anti-Catholicism and anti-religion truely are two of the last prejuidices that are allowed by our society.

By Brian Curtis

February 7, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Ricky: At religion, or at fundamentalism? I’ve got no problem with Christians as a rule, but we’re talking fundamentalists here: zealots and morons who pose a clear and present danger to our society, and indeed all of human civilization.

You bet I hate them. So do most real Christians, because fundies give them a bad name.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

jpetz, that is the same formula that a good majority of preachers use as well….only they mix in wealth with that message. Jesus does not want you to be poor, so give me your money.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

They already found the party money, like that was the first priority:

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Shortcomings in aid from the U.S. government are making New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin look to other nations for help in rebuilding his hurricane-damaged city.

Why don’t you pinkos hit the Dutch up, they can send you some weed without the middle man.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Brian Curtis, I agree with you on fundamentalism. Muslim or Christian, it is all bad. However, I have seen many posts on here attacking religion as a whole. That is what bothers me. The same people will get mad about painting any other group with a broad brush, but it is okay to do it to religion.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I consider myself a Christian, but what I have always wondered is how can you judge the religions of others. I just try to live my life right. No one can choose which parents they have, or which religions they are born into.

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

At least no one ever wanted to exterminate you for being Christian…

By gadem

February 7, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Not recently JAPOI, but Christians were persecuted as well….I think Christians were the first to be persecuted.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Jewish and Proud of It: Say what? At least no one ever wanted to exterminate you for being Christian… You might want to study up a little on the Islamic Jihad.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Andy’s Mom..you sure know your son. Good luck with his many afflictions. I think the intervention thing is a good idea. May I recommend Dr. Phil and Oprah as the primaries?

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

You might want to study up a little on the Islamic Jihad

They want to exterminate you for being American…big difference.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

I’m an agnostic infidel. Are you?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Sudan jihad forces Islam on Christians

By Andy

February 7, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

At the same time, the Koran clearly rejects the divinity of Jesus and warns of the dangers of a trinitarian theology. Christians are in danger of the most heinous sin, shirk, which is “associating something human with God.”

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Andy, I’m afraid I am much more familiar with the Jihad than you will ever be, having lost an uncle and my grandfather to bombing attacks. Why? The right of Israelis to exist in the land of our ancestors. I’m frustrated in thinking that the eternal conflict has come down to a battle for real estate.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

As sad as it is JAPOI that is basically what it boils down to.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

“You used to find roast chickens, raw chicken, sausages, ham, butter, all kinds of fruit,” said the crippled 68-year-old garbage picker, hobbling through putrid hills of trash that fed him for 20 years. “They have ruined us.”

Every day on the pestilent eastern edge of this city of 18 million, hundreds of poor families rake what they can sell to recyclers from household waste dumped at their feet by a legion of freelance dustmen in battered horse-drawn carts. With little state welfare anywhere in Latin America, trash collection and garbage dumps are sometimes a form of social safety net for the very poor who seek food and household goods others have thrown away.

Sounds kind of like Bush, Cheney and the con’s view of what America should be like doesn’t it?

By Steve

February 7, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

gadem - Have you read the Old Testament? Seems to me that the Israelites were pretty much persecuted during most of that time.

Andy - Your quote from that whole article is a bit off. What about all of the paragraph before that stating that “Muslims understand Islam to be the same religion that God revealed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad”?

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

That’s Andy for you. He edits LIBERALLY to spin it his way.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Yeah Steve, but as far as major religions go, I was saying that Christians were also persecuted….what religion were the isralites anyway?

By Midori

February 7, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Ralph Reed - King of the Weasels.

a lot of good info on him here

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

There is no way on God’s earth that anyone can compare this “terrorist jihad” against America to the persecution of Jews and the terror directed at Israel. MILLIONS of Jews have died from the terror directed against them by not only by terrorist organizations but by nation states as well. To even try to compare what has been done to the Jews to Bush’s “war on terror” is not only disrespectful to Jews and Israel, but is disgustingly dishonest.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Jewish and Proud of It: Say what? At least no one ever wanted to exterminate you for being Christian… You might want to study up a little

Leave it to Andy to once again compare apples to oranges. There is a substantial difference in the body count Andy.

By finch

February 7, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

What does Ralph Reed’s public hypocrisy, demonstrated by his shilling for gambling foes while at the same time lobbying for gambling interests have to do with Mark Taylor’s private life?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Duplicity (n) - 1. Deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech. b. An instance of deliberate deceptiveness; double-dealing. 2. The quality or state of being twofold or double.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

By gadem

February 7, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I consider myself a Christian, but what I have always wondered is how can you judge the religions of others. I just try to live my life right. No one can choose which parents they have, or which religions they are born

gadem you have said it all brother. When the roll is called up yonder I am willing to bet that the measuring stick will be what good deeds has one done while on earth and how one has treated his fellow man. I am also willing to bet that alot of the self professed “christians” we see on this blog won’t be there based upon some of the ideas that they have for their fellow man.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Hypocrites Hypocrisy is derived from the Greek word hypokrisis, which meant playing a part on the stage, or putting on a mask to misrepresent reality. In the ancient Greek theater, actors were known as hypocrites, without any negative connotation. In the real world however, being a hypocrite, pretending to be something while actually being something else, was and is definitely viewed as wrong. In matters of religion, it’s downright evil.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

This blog can be said to be “much ado about nothing”. I haven’t heard Reed being convicted of anything. But his choice of friends and associates leaves much to be desired. I think we can do better for a governmental office.

As to killing and religion, I don’t think you can find a group of people in history who have NOT been persecuted at one time or another. Some more than others, it seems. As much as I love this country, we are not exempt. The difference is that we stop and amend those we have harmed;(slaves, Native Americans). The current state of hate as exemplified by liberals is discouraging. They go so far as to excoriate those who would protect us. That is alarming. But I will say no more. Lengthy posts are boring.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

evildoers!

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

The difference is that we stop and amend those we have harmed;(slaves, Native Americans).

Your kidding right? How many Native Americans have you seen outside a reservation? I’d be willing to bet not many. What about the Japanese Americans that were placed in camps during WWII? Saying “We’re sorry, we screwed up” isn’t exactly making amends…

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Ricky, please describe this “current state of hate” that applies only to liberals. Examples please. And then you can tell us how the cons, conservatives, neocons, whatever it is they call themselves now have a patent on righteousness. Enlighten us please. We would all like to join the ranks of the righteous.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

Steve: I thought you would have enough maturity and intelligence to interpret my linked column on your own. My bad. So here is the entire paragraph for you silly pinkos:

The Koran addresses Jews and Christians as “People of the Book” who may also share a heavenly home: “those who have faith, those who are Jews and Christians…shall have their reward.” (2:62 and 5:69) At the same time, the Koran clearly rejects the divinity of Jesus and warns of the dangers of a trinitarian theology. Christians are in danger of the most heinous sin, shirk, which is “associating something human with God.” The best answer to this question is for non-Muslims to engage in a thoughtful study of Islam.

Notice how the Koran considers us to be the same?

This is the last words I will speak on this subject. I’m not going to engage in a game of who is the biggest victim with you losers. You sit around all day with the “woe is me” bulls—-, I have better things to do.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Yep, Democracy

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

And you hide under your bed all day p** your diaper Andy. You only come out to type more Rushrant. We know if you can’t tie a subject to your lovefest with George and his “war on terror” that you have very few words anyway. No big loss.

By Steve SC

February 7, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” Ever since He said it, the powerful on earth have been acting as though He also said, “I’ll let you do whatever you like on earth until I come back”. At least Ralphie acts as though it were true …

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Getalife:

Was that Ross Perot standing between Rove & Cheney in your link.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Look blogger/ DawgBite: I thought you were going to get over your gaybait fascination with me? What’s the matter did you fall off the wagon? Your boyfriend seeing another man on you? Why don’t you go chase cattle in the pasture or something where you stand a chance to score?

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

One of my favorite stories in the bible is when Jesus expelled the money changers from the Temple. Could that be the fate met by the Dick Cheneys, the Lays, the Skillings, Ebbers, Rigas, Scrushys, and others of their ilk when the roll is called up yonder? I bet if they could, to a man they would arrive at the pearly gates with bible in hand, just as they did when they showed up in the courthouse, professing that they have done nothing wrong. I bet it doesn’t do them any good.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

OO,

No, he has a W on his belt buckle.

Check out the shadows.

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Well what do you know, they all have big ears. Was that ml’s doing?

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

I much prefer my lovely Mexican wife, Andy. The cattle are all yours.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

I have also wondered, what about all those that have blindly followed those who professed to be of the faith. Would those people have the same fate as the false prophets?

By getalife

February 7, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

OO,

Told you Cheney was the devil, he likes to torture people.

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

The best answer to this question is for non-Muslims to engage in a thoughtful study of Islam

Not exterminate non-Muslims…big difference between “thoughtful study of Islam” and exterminate all non-Muslims…

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

That was the point I was trying to make in an earlier post gadem. It never fails that the biggest miscreants shamelessly use the Bible as a prop every single time they get caught in wrongdoing.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Jewish and Proud,

You need to read a little more. I have worked with Native Americans for ten summers. They have their own elected officials, numerous benefits including health care, and can go anywhere they please. Many prefer to stay with the majority of their own and the benefits of the reservation. Some tribes are very properous and some not. It depends on their location and natural resources.

If you will read the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 you will find what amendments Americans made to Japanese Americans and Aleuts of WWII. It included apologies and retributions. Read before you post next time.

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Dusty, I too have worked with Native Americans, specifically the Oglala Sioux indians of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota (the same one they filmed Dances with Wolves at) and I can honestly say that conditions are deplorable. Poverty and unemployment rates have been in the 70th percentile (though they have decreased marginally). For most on that particular reservation, freedom of movement is a luxury. Most cannot go anywhere they please and there is NO benefit to staying on the reservation. One of my friends, Twila Two Bulls, has told me that it has always been that way with no opportunity to do otherwise… As for the Japanese, I was asking the question, which you answered, I will read the Civil Liberties Act and see for myself.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

In the early 1990s, Bin Laden emphasized his desire to secure the withdrawal of U.S. and other foreign troops from Saudi Arabia at all costs. Bin Laden criticized the Saudi royal family publicly and alleged that their invitation of foreign troops to the Arabian peninsula constituted an affront to the sanctity of the birthplace of Islam and a betrayal of the global Islamic community.5 Finding his rhetoric and efforts rebuffed by Saudi leaders, Bin Laden was expelled from Saudi Arabia and his ire increasingly focused on the United States. Following a period of exile in Sudan and Afghanistan in which his radical views sharpened, Bin Laden issued a declaration of jihad against the United States in 1996 that signaled his emergence as an internationally recognizable figure and offered a full account of his main critiques of an enemy he described as the “alliance of Jews, Christians, and their agents.�?6

WWJD and gadem, conservative fundamentalists are only part of the problem. It is also people like you, who would have the world crawling with capable humans looking for their next government handout, that keep me from adopting the Christian religion. Not only the government handout thing but the way the left incites animosity and envy towards other of the creators children and how they rely on that animosity for their very political survival. However, the conservative Christians are the only reason I would adopt it.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Still waiting on Ricky to give us the lowdown on the “current state of hate” that is the sole property of liberals.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Good one, ML. Ralph’s an easy target but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fire away.

BTW, I saw Mike on CNN on Monday talking about the Muslim cartoon controversy. I realize he was put on the spot — I mean, who wants a fatwah if he can avoid it — but I would have liked to see him stand up more for the concept of free expression. The whole controversy points out the mentality of those who foment terrorism and why we’ll never win them over. They value their icons and images more than they do the concept of liberty, which apparently is a bit too abstract for such tiny minds.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Scooter, would you please show me where I have said one word about government handouts in any of my posts. Can you do that please?

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Getalife:

Please don’t make me reveal my secret life again. I just paid you a visit offshore

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Dr. R, I think it is the liberty of humans that they see as evil. Humans should not be free to be evil. I think that is their thing.

By physicsDawg

February 7, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

By gadem 11:52 AM

I have also wondered, what about all those that have blindly followed those who professed to be of the faith. Would those people have the same fate as the false prophets?

Those who blindly follow will still be lost. False Teachers who lead others astray will have a worse time in Hell/more punishment heaped on. Sorry, I don’t have my Bible at work to quote verses for those.

By finch

February 7, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

getalife, that evildoers link is truly a work of art! Thanks for the find!! I love the shadows.

DawgBite, isn’t it hilarious that the obsessed blogger here who accuses you of gaybaiting is guilty of more gaybaiting here than everyone else combined?

Ralph Reed, Dobson, Ashcroft, Brownback, Robertson and their ilk have found the perfect “religion” for their bloated egos and greed. In their minds, all they have to do when they show up at the Gates of Heaven (Bible in hand) is confess to their sins, and they’re IN!

What a great brand of Christianity. You’re not responsible for anything! All you have to do is say, “I’m sorry… “

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Dusty, Unless you have worked in a Casino, I can’t match your description of the Native American’s life with reality. Health care is minimal. A clinic manned by a doctor paying back the government for loans or a nurse practitioner. Housing is usually trailers. Alcoholism kills many of the young men. Child mortality is higher than among any other group. Epidemics of disease such as meningococcal meningitis are common. I challenge you to spend a summer on a real reservations, living like the typical resident, and then come back and post what you posted.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Jewish & Proud,

I, too, worked with the Oglala Sioux (Lakota) on the Cheyenne River Reservation at Eagle Butte one summer. It was an impoverished area. But my friend there, Rachel Yelseagle had worked and financed a college education for her son. The rolling prairie seemed to be the only resource for most. (I loved the beautiful fossils that turned up everywhere there.)

The Navajo, with a reservation the size of West Virginia, were/are a strong, prosperous tribe. The White Mountain Apaches, with a thriving lumber industry and winter sports center were/are also doing well. They had a beautiful large hospital and a fairly large airport that firefighter planes used. I hope you get to visit other reservations and the more fortunate of a proud people.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

WWJD, I assumed you are a “liberal”, if I was wrong I apologize. However that does not invalidate everything I typed.

Do you think the tax cuts were given to the rich? Do you think that giving tax credits/handouts to the poor in 2001 was what would have created jobs? Do you think people who pay no taxes should get money back at the end of the year?

Again if you are not an economic bufoon/”know it all”, I apologize for generalizing. I am cramped for time. I was talking more about democrat policies and those who support them.

The government gets its power from people who cannot live without it and I don’t see governments motivation to produce self sufficient citizens. But, I see democrats fighting school choice at every corner and I wonder why they are so insistent that competitiion not be allowed in education.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Dusty, We have a lot of reservations in Washington, Oregon, and Idaho. I am afraid the one you visited is the exception.

By Simon Jester

February 7, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

GA GOP looks more like Madeline Albright than a GOP mom. GOP women are much prettier; ugly prostitutes don’t produce Republican level graft. Whatever can be said about the RepubliCrooks, you can’t say they don’t know how to work their “trim”.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

Indeed. We see this in Ralph Reed (to tie back to the cartoon) and others in our society who place their all-too-human interpretation of faith above the very values and concepts faith is supposed to real: Truth, liberty, tolerance, etc. If religion doesn’t open your mind to a better life in this world, how do you expect to reach the next world? And if violence and hatred of your fellow man is enacted in the name of your “God,” what kind of God do you have? So many Christians and Muslims do it the right way, but both have been hijacked by extremists who deign to speak for all. In the latter case, those who stay silent are complicit to those who do so.

And let’s call it like it is: Those Islamists who blow themselves up, who march in the streets and scream “Down to America” and who would burn an embassy over cartoons are uneducated, moronic, barbaric, medieval slobs. You can’t reason with people that dense.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

finch, I think alot of people here are finally figuring Andy out.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

PhysicsDawg: Type in the Scripture or Chapter into a google search and several good links to the Bible will come up. Google hasn’t censored them yet.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

More quotes for 02/07/06

This is the one you need to worry about.

Some of the conservative critics, such as Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform, contend that Bush should simply comply with the law requiring the government to obtain a court order when it wants to wiretap an American. Bush’s aides have asserted that warrants take too long to obtain, but Norquist said the law allows investigators to plant a wiretap first and seek permission up to three days later.

Here’s an old friend:

Bob Barr, a onetime Republican representative from Georgia and a former prosecutor, said the issue is whether the president can violate a law, not whether this particular program makes sense from a policy perspective in the war on terrorism.

Then there is this one:

But Robert Levy of the libertarian Cato Institute said conducting surveillance on US soil without a warrant is one of the things that Bush cannot do, even in wartime, because Congress passed a law making it a criminal offense to wiretap Americans without a warrant, even in national security circumstances.

More:

Other conservative critics, such as David Keene, the chairman of the American Conservative Union - which calls itself the largest grass-roots conservative organization in the country - say the president should simply get the House and Senate to approve the program, rather than assert a right to bypass Congress in times of war.

"Their argument is extremely dangerous in the long term because it can be used to justify all kinds of things that I'm sure neither the president nor the attorney general has thought about," Keene said. A president "could just do whatever [he] wants to do. . . . The American system was set up on the assumption that you can't rely on the good will of people with power."

And my favorite:

“My criteria for judging this stuff is what would a President Hillary do with these same powers,” said Paul M. Weyrich, the influential writer and leader of the Free Congress Foundation, a think tank. “And if I’m troubled by what she would do, then I have to be troubled by what Bush could do, even though I have more trust in Bush than I do in Hillary.”

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Dr R, you are right about the people currently protesting these cartoons. You can’t reason with them. They are allowing themselves to be used as pawns by the extreme wing of their religion that wants to destroy the western world. Why do they want to destroy the western world? Because they have realized their culture has fallen behind the leading societies of the world. Most Arab/Muslims live in poverty and don’t have the opportunity to improve themselves. At one time they were the leading light of the world. But then the Western world went through reformation and the enlightenment that led us to where we are today. The Arab/Muslim world has gone through that transformation yet and that is why they are lagging behind.

By finch

February 7, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

“Sudan jihad forces Islam on Christians.”

Isn’t it great that the Bush administration is doing so much to help feed the starving Christians and animists in Darfur while helping them resist the Muslim janjaweed and the oppressive Sudanese government?

Oh… they’re not?

In a related development, NYTimes columnist Nicholas Kristoff today launched a pledge drive to help fund a visit by Bill O’Reilly to Darfur.

He acted after O’Reilly sent him an email saying “I do 3 hours of daily news analysis on TV and radio. There’s no way I can go to Africa”

He’s a saint, that Bill O’Reilly!

By getalife

February 7, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

OO,

Thanks for pimping my blog and the comments.

finch,

Your welcome.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Scooter. Indirectly you have probably touched upon part of what is wrong with the world today. Right seems to be situational based upon pure economics.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Well, well, looks like the kook pinko in McCain has finally unleashed itself:

McCain mocks Obama

Problem is, the kook pinkos will no longer consider him a kook pinko. He’s been banished from the kook pinko tribe.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

And what party will you join when McCain is the next Republican prez, Andy?

By gadem

February 7, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

I know finch, I was watching a program the other day detailing how the troops were holding up. They listed all the celebrities that had been to visit them, you know the USO tour, and most opponents of the war had atleast been to support the troops…everyone except for Limbaugh and O’Reilly. They have talk radio shows to do you know.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

gadem,

You may want to scratch Limbaugh off that extensive list of yours. Unless you don’t count Afghanistan.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

WWJD, capitalism. A system in which everyone has a chance to chase that carrot/(worldly wealth) on the stick. It is a society that chases that wordly wealth that will not only be the most productive but also the most wealthy. Others will be dealt, by their governments, a finacialy secure existence of mediocrity. Hence the economics of socialism and the democrat party.

How many politicians do you think are experts in accounting, futures trading, risk analysts, oil refinement, etc… ? Now, how many politicians, now including republicrats, jumped on the bully pulpit to incite animosity of the dumb masses at those “record profits”? They are all fooling the citizenry to solidify their power in DC.

Responsibility is power and the dems can’t give it to government fast enough.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Washington State,

I have worked on five different reservations, all of them in Arizona except the one in South Dakota. They were all large tribes except Colorado River Tribes at Parker which was a combination of three tribes. You do know the Indian Health Service does provide healthcare and hospitals on many reservations. There is a large central hospital in Phoenix where patients are flown in for serious problems. I know ‘cause I flew to Phoenix on a hospital plane that had a vacant seat. We took off between mountains and the co-pilot was a patient with an IV. Pretty exciting day for me, leaving Polacca.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Now according to the USO homepage, Limbaugh is no where to be found. Not unless he went with another organization. That is what I was referring to from the report that was on TV.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Not sure what your point is Scooter. Is it that capitalism and compassion can’t coexist? And by the way, I am not a Democrat. Nor a liberal. Maybe I am one of those compassionate conservatives that GW keeps talking about but can’t seem to find in his administration.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

When you lag behind the rest of the world in enlightenment, education and economic growth, you have one of two choices: Work hard and better your society in order to catch up, or “KILL THE INFIDELS!!!” Unless, of course, the infidels kill you first. And the infidels, because they are more advanced and actually have read books, will have more and better guns.

I think one of the Danish cartoons (I saw it somewhere) had a suicide bomber reaching heaven where Allah, or whoever, presented him with a bunch of ugly, old women, saying “Sorry, we’re all out of virgins.” Mike, THAT’S a neat cartoon.

By gadem

February 7, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Scooter, RW, Andy or someone else. Please explain to me why your President keeps cutting funding for education? Did he not say in his SOTU that he would increase funding for education to train more Math and Science teachers. Please educate me. I may have read something wrong or misinterpreted what was said.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

And by the way Scooter. If the present “conservative” administration is any indication, using your criteria, the record setting deficits that they have created will most certainly guarantee financial mediocrity. They are not very good with our money. Or could it be that they are not true conservatives. Their helter skelter money management style is probably what will drive this country into socialism eventually.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

finch

The government has outdone itself helping with the tsunami disasters world wide and Katrina here at home.

May I remind you that individuals should take up the slack in places like Darfur and the freezing people in the Himalayas of Pakistan. Every aid group and every large religious organization in America is begging for help. Ask yourself instead of your government to give aid. The government is already giving a great deal.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

If Rush went to Afghanistan he was doctor shopping.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

gadem, did you see any footage from the President’s Q&A a couple weeks ago at Kansas State University? [before the brokeback question] A student asked: “How will cutting $12 billion from higher education loans help students’ futures or, for that matter, America’s future?”

His response was hilarious. First he was all “Wha? I didn’t hear… What?” The question was repeated. Then he was all “We are? I mean, I don’t think we….” He’s looking around for a cue card. Then he says, “Cutting.. Whose? You mean, OUR education?” Jon Stewart played the footage the next night. Good lord, if it weren’t so sad it would be funny as heck!

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Lets see. We had Reaganomics, tricle down economics, voodoo economics, and now we have Bushanomics finch. He says he will spend more but spends less, but it equals more. That fuzzy math thing we keep hearing about.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Dusty, It’s probably like the army. Some posts have medical centers and have good care. All the docs want to go there. Others are out in the boonies without any hospitals and no one wants those assignments. I am glad to hear that some of the reservations are doing well, but don’t kid yourself that that applies to the majority. As for the Indian Health Service, it is a good example of what happens from benign neglect. It took 5 years to get them to investigate why the coastal indians in Washington had such high infant mortality rates. It took another year before they acknowledged the problem. And they still haven’t done anything about it due to manpower constraints.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

gadem, DB,

{Enjoy](http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/rushreportsbackfromafghanistan.guest.html).

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

RW,

What’s your thinking on this wiretapping business? It sure seems like a lot of true conservatives are lining up on the other side of this issue. I would be especially worried about Grover Norquist, seeing how he has been instrumental in the formation of the current Republican organization.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

Yeah, it’s that kind of stuff that makes it hard to defend the guy, even when you agree with him. It’s all politics. You say you’re going to boost education (applause). Then you say you’re going to cut taxes (applause). Then you say you plan to cut the deficit in half (applause). The fact that those items are at odds doesn’t play in the illogical looking glass world of D.C. politics. GWB said he came to Washington as an outsider and wanted to take a different approach. Didn’t take him long to adopt the game plan.

Here’s what he should have said: “Because of our ongoing war against the thugs trying to kill us, our federal deficit is spiraling higher. To keep it from becoming a drag on our economy and burdening future taxpayers, we must hold the line on discretionary spending and reign in entitlements. That means no more money for schools. Extra cash from Washington has never been proven to raise educational standards anyway, and throwing more down the same hole won’t help. You want your kids to make better grades? Then turn off the @#$%ing TV and video games and make them read a book.”

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

That didn’t work very well

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, you mean they are actually letting the guy answer questions that he doesn’t have in advance again? This administration is REALLY dumb. Are they going to prosecute the student? Put him under surveillance?

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this

WWJD, the same deficit complaint was given against Regean, when I was a child. I remember hearing from everyone how I and my children weere going to be paying for that defecit. What do ya know all itr took to balance the budget was to tax a booming economy to death. But, Americans see the here and now and blame the here and now on the current admin, whether it be republicrat or democrat. The economic bufoons like to think the massive US economy can turn on a dime, when it rreally takes years for policy to affect our economy.

Gadem, again the government gets its power from people who cannot live without it, so government has no motivation to educate self sufficient citizens. It seems you want to focus on certain aspects of government school financing. At what funding level do we insist our children are not drugged with riddlin to make the teachers unions jobs easier, or demand to see some results from teaching information rather than coddling kids self esteem?

Some funds may have been cut, but were the programs made more efficient, I don’t know? I do know that funding for technical schools has increased and student loan programs have allegedly been streamlined for efficiency’s sake and funds were reduced by that streamlining.

We are all riding this big blue ball with so much information streaming past us we will never undderstand it all. Not only are we riding the ball we are going to over populate it one day and the policies of the dems will not make that process as easy as they would have you believe. I simply cannot stand to see someone who majored in theology, political science or law profess to be an expert in all aspects of life.

Unfortunately, perhaps due to where I choose to live, it is the liberals who are always up in my grill professing to know it all and in explaining it to me they show their ignorance. I don’t have that problem with christians, as theirs is blind faith.

As that pampass O’reilly would say, I’ll let you have the last word.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Dr R, What is hard to defend is the cuts in services for the disabled, especially children. Almost half the kids in this country are born without insurance. Almost all the cuts Bush has proposed come from cutting down services to children and the diabled. Needless to say, this is not flying well with some Republican lawmakers who are up for re-election this year. They say that you can tell a lot about a country by how it cares for its most helpless citizens. If the new budget passes, we are going to get an “F” in that departmen.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

It really depends on what is really being done. If it is a limited program involving international communications that involve a known or suspected member of a terrorist organization then I think the President has that power under Article II of the Constitution because the Congress shortly after 9/11 authorized the “state of war” with al Queda and it’s affiliates.

If it was to turn out to be a widespread program of domestic wiretapping then it would be an illegal act.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

We could afford to care for disabled children, and all who are truly needy, AND grow the economy, AND cut taxes if we didn’t feel compelled to provide entitlement benefits to everyone who happen to hit the lucky-gene jackpot and live to age 65. How does it feel knowing your kids will be paying taxes to buy medicine for rich seniors like Bill Gates? But you can’t buy votes with limited federal safety nets that only address those in need; you have to scale it up so everyone gets a piece of candy. Discretionary spending gets axed because it’s easier, but it really is a drop in the bucket compared to Social Security and Medicare.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

So this massive deficit is a good thing Scooter. Since you are an econimics guru maybe you can teach me something. I just know simple things. If I borrow from the bank I pay back the money, with interest. The bank is sometimes willing to loan more money that I also have to return. Meanwhile my deficit is growing. I keep spending and eventually I can’t pay the piper and go belly up. Is Bush running America like it were Delta? Is there such a thing as Chapter 11 for nations? So tell me this Scooter. How many more countries can we afford to go to war with financing it by cutting other things. Isn’t that kind of like amputating your arms and legs to finance the body and sooner or later you die anyway. Is that Bushanomics?

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Scooter:

I’m going back to throwing pots on the wheel. Enjoy

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

WWJD, of course the deficit isn’t a good thing. If you notice, most of the true conservatives in Congress and across the country are fighting mad about the way this administration is spending money. Bush is conservative, but he is not a conservative. There is a difference. And he is proving that. Now to compare an individuals personal finances to that of the US is rather simplistic, but that is besides the point. And the left will try to paint Bush’s spending as a conservative problem, when in reality it isn’t. It is his administration. That is why the Republican Party needs to get back to the 1994 Contract with America that led to balanced budgets and a surplus. Hopefully they will nominate someone that is much more fiscally responsible than Bush.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Dr R, What is your take on the drug bill that Bush passed?

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

DrR,

As for social security and medicare, I for one would be happy to get back what I put into the system plus a modest 5% or 6% compounded return. On the other hand, I resent like hell that president after president has used those funds like a bank and now you are telling me the I.O.U.’s are no good.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Ricky, Kudos. It is about time someone called it like it is. Bush is NOT a true conservative.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Thank you Ricky. You have just stated the obvious. The Bush administration is neoconservative not conservative. Their actions make that perfectly clear. But they dupe the conservative base of the rebublican party by claiming to be “conservatives”. At the same time they use Newt Gingrich’s manifesto, ‘Language: A Mechanism of Control’, which uses all of the demonizing characterasations of liberals as a smoke screen to control their base by saying that if you are not one of us you are one of them. All the while they are robbing the bank. And the whole time true conservatives are being led blindly by neoconservatives whole only care about perpetuating their own agenda, and the end justifys the means.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

The whole concept of our entitlements is flawed. Take Social Security. The government takes your money and pays it to today’s retirees. Then it bets you that you won’t live long enough to collect any of it back (if you die earlier, your beneficiaries get a death benefit that amounts to a tiny fraction of what you paid in). If you do, it gives it back in dribbles and drabs, betting you a second time that you won’t live long enough to break even. Which is why we have 95 year-old widows (bless their heart) who have collected 10 times what their husbands paid in, while others never got their money back. The ultimate socialist scheme, where everything comes from a big pot and nobody owns their own money.

If we controlled our own retirment, as we should, you could invest a fraction of your FICA deduction and get back ten-fold when you retire. Social Security could be scaled down to provide benefits for those few who don’t have the good sense to take control of their own money.

The drug thing was a disgrace, a shameless way to buy votes in Florida for the 2004 race, and the main reason I tell the GOP to take a hike when they call for money. (reason No. 2 is that I have none, but that’s my own fault …)

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

WasingtonState, alot of us who consider ourselves true conservatives have been saying this for a long time. At first I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on spending, thinking most of the spending was related to the war. However, he continues to propose outlandish spending bills and has not vetoed one spending bill. The pork barrell politics in Wahsington has gotten completely out of control

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Dr.R.,

Is Bill Gates 65? Unless he took early social security benefits and got Medicare or Medicaid, he won’t get a prescription drug card. Health care costs do seem out of control. But to use Bill Gates as an example is pretty far out.

Besides the hugh health foundation Gates runs and funds, I wonder how much income tax he pays? Must be hefty.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

WWJD, the true conservatives are not being blindly led. They are fighting back. Notice the group of them in the Senate and the House attempting to curtail spending. Now you have heard everyone on the left complaining about the spending, but none of them are going along with cutting the spending. I don’t buy into the Newt Gringrich comment either. If you have seen any of his interviews lately he has been leading the charge agains the outrageous spending taking place in Congress right now.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

And yes Ricky, using personal finances was my simplistic way of saying that eventually be it nations or individuals the time will come to pay the piper. And it is absolute fact that when there is no “descretionary” funds left to spend, government or individual, that’s when the hands go out and that is when Socialism will take root. In a way, the Bush administration is leading us down the road to Socialism. Read the tenets of neoconservatism people. They have no problem with a welfare state as long as they are the ones doling out the scraps. Neocons are about nothing but power and control and if true conservatives will just open their eyes and add all of the things that are going on in this administration up, it will be krystal clear. This crowd is not good for America.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

I was looking ahead; he will be 65 and qualify for it, which is why I said your kids will be paying for it. If you prefer, take Warren Buffett or or any current elderly millionaire of your choice. Bottom line is, we don’t create these programs for people in need; we create them for EVERYBODY to buy their votes. Which is why the costs are prohibitive.

We keep hearing from the Democrats that we have 40 million Americans without health insurance. But instead of promoting a limited plan to help cover those folks for catastrophic illness, the vote whores in D.C. want to create universal health care that puts us all on the same government dole, not based on need but a pulse. Doing so makes us all more dependent on Uncle Sam for everything, which cements the power of those in charge. They can’t let us control our own money, our retirement, our health, anything that diminishes our need for government handouts.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Ricky, The only problem with the current form of “fiscal restraint” is that all most all of the cuts are coming from the most vulnerable of our population: the disabled and children who have no insurance. Surely there are better ways to achieve fiscal responsibility. Or is it just that these are the people least likely to be able to fight back?

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Dr. R.,

Have you forgotten the president tried to change Social Security into a program more beneficial to Americans? There was so much complaining and objections that the whole plan was dropped. The president can only do so much if his recommendations are blindly rejected.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

True, Dusty, he did make an effort. But he was willing to do so only after he was re-elected and never had to face the voters again. Sadly, no one in Congress, even from his own party, was willing to get on board. That’s why it’ll take some serious term limits to get anyone in Washington to scale back on entitlements. They’re afraid to touch that third rail because old people vote in throngs and will throw them out in a heartbeat.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

WWJD, you post some incorrect assumptions and facts. “Neocon’s” don’t want a welfare state. Look at their social policies. They advocating improving neighborhoods and living conditions believing that will lead to increased productivity and an increased desire to work ones way out of poverty. And to say that Bush is leading down the road to socialism is not intellectually honest. I guarantee you that the Republican party will nominate someone more in line with a true conservative ideology in 08. The reason Bush was elected twice was due in large part to a lack of a quality candidate from the Democratic Party.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Well duh, Dusty. After Enron, Global Crossing, Adelphia, et al, who in their right mind wants their retirement in the hands of shysters like that crew?

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

DawgBite, so because a handful of companies had financial issues does that make all retirement plans for big corporations bad? GE, Phillip Morris, Coca-Cola, et al seem to be doing a pretty good job

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Ricky, I was talking about some of the “conservatives” on this blog. I know that there are some in the house and senate fighting back and that tells me that this administration is on the ropes. Those guys know their “true conservative” constituents won’t vote them out for fighting King George.

Thanks again Ricky. You told it like it is. You are “True Conservative of the Day”! You go guy!

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Anybody that is watching the funeral, is that Hillary or a bobblehead doll?

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree with you now Ricky. Please do a search for Leo Strauss or one on neoconservatism and the tenets are given. It clearly states that neocons have no problem with welfare because it is an aid in exercising control of the populace.

It is kind of like Mao saying “when the masses biggest concern is their next meal, they have no time to spend worrying about what government is doing to them”.

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Jimmy C. just couldn’t resist the opportunity, could he?

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton turn the memorial service for Mrs. King into a political event last night? Those two are embarrassments for everything the King family stood for. I think people are finally starting to realize that both of them are hypocritical opportunists, much like Pat Robertson and his crew

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

Oops! Sorry!

By getalife

February 7, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

I was checking out Dubya, talking about uncomfortable.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Have you forgotten the president tried to change xxxxxx into a program more beneficial to Americans? There was so much complaining and objections that the whole plan was dropped. The president can only do so much if his recommendations are blindly rejected.

Dusty, did you say the same thing in 1993-94 when Clinton tried to remedy the flaws in our health care system that leave so many people out in the cold? Or did you screech the “S” word over and over, as if you understand what that means?

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Washington State,

Maybe your state government should talk to the folks in Georgia. Peachcare is the Georgia healthcare program set up for the children of those considered to be in poverty; that is a family of three making less than $37,000 or a family of four making less than $45,000. Children five years old and under, pay nothing. After that the rates start at $10/mo. Please don’t wander around saying nobody cares about children.

If you keep looking for the worst-case scenario you will find it. Anywhere. Fortunately, we live in the best country in the world and are most fortunate. Why don’t you look beyond politics and develop some appreciation.

Dawgbite,

Make up your mind. Do you want the government or private enterprise to handle your retirement funds? You can’t seem to decide.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

All in all this has been far more dignified than the Rosa Parks funeral or Paul Wellstone memorial.

Lowery took a shot with the WMD comment, but Bush 41 and B. Clinton both zinged him back.

When Jimmy Carter mentioned wiretapping of MLK, why didn’t he mention it was the Kennedys doing it?

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, I’d rather not “fix the flaws” by tearing down the whole thing and rebuilding it as a government-run program. There are ways to plug the gaps without forcing us all into socialized medicine. Do you really think that would work in a nation as large as ours?

By getalife

February 7, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Jimmy

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

DrR, you’re right, I’m sure, since you’re a doctor. Much better to allow thousands to have limited, or no access to decent health care while the pharmaceutical and insurance companies reap huge profit margins, all while the middle class pays more and more every year for what little we get. Yep. Much better I’m sure.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Ricky you are right but one never knows when it is their retirement plan that the Kenny boys of the world could be managing. And we all know that alot of hanky panky goes down in the investment world.

Bottom line. If government hadn’t used Social Security as a personal slush fund we wouldn’t even be discussing the issue. The money would be in the bank and the program would be solvent.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Kimberly,

Hillary, not Bill, said a lot but she was a non-elected person who dropped in to give us advice. Nothing like a politicallly aggressive lawyer to give healthcare advice. I didn’t listen.

As to the “S” word, maybe you should spell it out. I am not familiar with it unless you mean “sucker” in reference to some liberal bloggers.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Dusty, I work in the area of child care, especially for children with chronic illnesses. Your Peachcare Plan will be in the same boat that all the other CHIP programs are in. I bet you anything they are heavily dependent on federal funding thru the EPDST program, which is on the chopping block. We have one of the more progressive state health care plans here in Washington, but it cannot survive without federal funding. As for the children with disabilities programs, they are heavily dependent on a mix of federal, state, and private funding. As for the partisan posting, I have gone out of my way to avoid it. I have tried to bring up issues that are of interest to all Americans, not just Democrats or Republicans. Read my postings on the bottleneck on generic drugs for example.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Ricky, here I go being simplistic again. I just opened my natural gas bill. I now have fewer descretionary, middle class dollars to spend. And Exxon Mobile just announced record profits. It seems to start with a few dollars here a few dollars there then it grows to a few hundred dollars here and a few hundred there. Eventually the sums get totaled and you have no descretionary dollars to spend period. You are still in the middle class. You are still making good money, with the difference being you are just paying the bills. And Exxon Mobile is STILL announcing record profits. When is the “true conservative” middle class in this country going to wake up, smell the coffee and scream..WHAT”S UP WITH THAT?

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Dusty, heh…. You illustrate the double standard so much better than I could. Thanks for helping make my point, as always.

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Getalife:

I kept seeing Bush in a bright red, low-cut dress and six-inch stilettos sitting in the pew. I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes, wingtips, I mean.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Didn’t say we don’t work to fix what’s wrong. I just don’t think a nationalized system of anything is the best way to solve it. What’s your plan? Limit profits by pharmaceuticals and HMOs? How? Do you feel universal health care will keep the quality and availability of care at a high level without incurring greater costs? I think we agree we have a problem, but some of the solutions sound worse. Reminds me of those drug commercials pushing a pill to cure some minor ailment, but with enough side effects that make your head swim.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

At least give W some props for showing up before what appeared to be a largely hostile crowd. Even shook hands with the folks cutting him a new one. It’s too bad folks couldn’t keep politics out of a tribute to a great American. There’s a time and a place for everything, but some chowderheads will never understand that.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

OO,

They treated Wild Bill like a rock star.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Dr R, One way of limiting profits for pharmaceutical companies is by speeding up the process of approving generic drugs. Right now, the FDA spends almost no money on this process and is falling further and further behind. Each year that approval of a generic is held up costs consumers millions of dollars (and adds millions to pharmaceutical profits.) Despite our president saying that generic drugs are an important way to keep down medical costs, it seems this administration is doing its best to slow down the competitive process.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

You got that right Dusty. I damn sure can’t decide. Neither of them can be trusted. And based on the new tactic of running a company in the ground just so you can “reorganize” with the goal of dumping pensions and such, well there are reasons to mistrust. And we all know some of the tricks brokers and financial management companies use. You know that trick they have that robs Peter to pay Paul. I would love to just stuff greenback dollars in a safe deposit box or fill Folger’s cans and bury them in the yard. Greenback dollars are as sure as death. But I just opened my natural gas bill too. So I guess its back to the drawing board.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

WWJD: Hey look at the bright side on that natural gas bill; the caribou in Alaska are cold right now because they have no pipeline running from ANWR to warm them up.

The vast empty shorelands of our gulf states are still vast empty shorelands with no Liquid Natural Gas terminals clogging up the seagull’s view.

Looks like all your hard work and effort got you to pay off. Enjoy!

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

Beehive Stater, I’ll buy that. Finding a way to cut costs should be priority No. 1. After that, we can better afford to insure everyone. Generics are a good start. Drug folks have pretty stiff lobbies; of course, term limits would take care of that, too, but I’m getting off topic.

Kimberly, tempted as I am to use my handle to claim some sort of expertise here, I’ll come clean and confess it’s an honorary title only. As much as I’d love to order young women to undress and pay me a fortune for the privilege, I have not uttered the oath of Hippocrates, nor am I a healer of any kind. I don’t operate on anything but the truth (OK, that was really corny … sorry).

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Andy, Those vast empty shorelands off the coast of Florida are there courtesy of a deal Jeb and George made during the first term of George’s administration. It is easy to blame that on the “libs”, but the fact of the matter is that it was St. George’s plan to develop the gulf coast of Florida as a retirement haven for the baby boomers more than any protestations from the “libs” that is holding up drilling off the Florida coast. Politics as usual, in other words.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

WWJD, I feel for you on the gas prices. Nobody wants to pay more for gases, but that is our fault for not doing enough to ensure that we aren’t beholden to foreign oil. That can take many forms, conservation is part of it and so is opening up ANWAR. The difference between an individual running out of money and the country is that the country can just make up more of it. Is that the right answer, no its not, but thats what happens. If we would fix the pork that comes out of Washington and get rid of the frivolous spending, we will be fine.

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Dr.R.:

Self-discipline, something we could all benefit from.

It’s too bad folks couldn’t keep politics out of a tribute to a great American.

But rarely do we practice it. Practice makes perfect!!!

By delta refugee

February 7, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

What is a moonbat?

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

WahsingtonState, would you agree to drilling of the coast of Fla and in ANWAR?

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Whatever the reason is Andy, my simple logic tells me that I have fewer descretionary dollars and Exxon Mobile is still announcing record profits. And by the way. How can the prices be so high for the consumer, profits be so high for the oil companies, if their market driven cost are as high as they are telling us. Something just doesn’t make sense here. It sounds as if we are boosting their P&L ledger by paying their market cost and at the same time keeping their margins high with what should be our discretionary dollars. Works out damn good for the oil execs and their stockholders. I hope they enjoy their bonuses while we count our ever dwindling stack of discretionary dollars.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Kimberly,

If not listening to Hillary Clinton when Bill was president gives me a double standard, then please explain. You might also explain your “point” which is somewhat mysterious, kinda like your letter “S”.

See you later. Gone awaile. Oh, you might ask Dr. R. if he/she is an M.D. I know a lot of “doctors” who are well educated but have nothing to do with medicine and healthcare.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

Ricky,

I wouldn’t be happy about all the leaky tanker traffic that ANWR would bring to the Puget Sound, but I would be happy to support offshore drilling off the coast of Florida. That isn’t the point though. I am not the one who made his brother agree to put the Destin Tracts off limit to exploration and drilling. Jeb Bush is who you need to be asking that question, not me.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

So stop buying the product. Enough people do that, prices will go down. If we keep paying out the nose as prices go up, what’s the incentive to take them down?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

I guess everybody wants higher prices:

TransCanada formed a partnership with Conoco Phillips to build a $350 million LNG facility at a former U.S. Navy fuel depot in Harpswell. But town residents blocked the proposal in a March 9 referendum.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

We should drill everywhere and anywhere, caribou and manta rays be damned. My car doesn’t run on pretty scenery.

Yes, I am extremely well educated, almost embarrassingly so, but not capable of fixing an ingrown toenail. But tempting as it is to lie to you good folks, I can’t bring myself to do it.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState, that is the point. If you are going to say we should drill off the coast of Florida then you should support drilling in ANWAR. You can’t have it both ways. Its the same with the Kennedy’s objecting to windmills off of Nantucket. They will complain about the environment, but not if it affects their million dollar estates. If you are going to complain about something then you have to support the efforts to fix them.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Dr. R.,

Sorry your post didn’t come up until after I posted. Congratulations on the honorary degree. They don’t give those for “nuthin”.

See ya!

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

The envy and animosity is a live and strong in America and the opportunistic politicians will exploit it ot their personal gain everyday. Didn’t take long before we were back to those evil profits. Will WWJD, BC and the rest continue to allow their economic ignorance to be pimped by politicians?

Record Profits?

Raw materials processors hold inventories, for example, and those may have been bought for much less than the current price. When the book value of those inventories is adjusted to reflect today’s higher price, accountants add that difference to the firm’s profits. But this is called “inventory profit,” because those paper gains will soon be needed to replace the raw materials at the new, higher price. Then the gains vanish.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Double standard:

(1) “If one of my guys does/says it, it’s because he’s a good ‘merican. If one of your guys does/says it, it’s because he’s a [insert Dusty’s foul, venom-filled pronoun o’ the day].” (2-a)2001-present “He’s our PRESIDENT, the nerve center of our nation, and he deserves our respect and support because he’s our president, who was elected, and we need to support him instead of tearing him down while he’s trying to do his job.” (2-b)1993-2000 The fact that he’s president is no reason to respect the [insert Dusty’s foul, venom -filled pronoun o’ the day].

S-word = socialsim. Both the Nazi fascists and the Soviet communists claimed to be socialists. The American right-wing uses it as an insult to the American progressives, much like one of Dusty’s foul, venom-filled pronouns, yet it means nothing.

Sorry, I don’t have time to educate you any further right now. Try reading a book.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Fans of the West Wing will remember an argument the Alan Alda character running for prez offered when asked about ANWR. He stated that he wished all oil drilling could be in areas so remote that very few of us will ever see or visit. If you can drill for oil in the middle of nowhere and only inconvenience a few lichens, isn’t that preferrable to doing so just off the beaches where people live and play? I’ll put it this way: If they drilled in ANWR tomorrow and didn’t tell us, would we even know about it?

The “honorary” title is something I bestowed on myself, truth be known. It’s a nickname, that’s all. But enough about me and my overblown qualifications … Is it just me or are we all over the map in here today. Focus …

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Ricky, You continue to ignore the obvious. I am a private citizen with no real say in these issues. My preferences don’t really matter. Jeb Bush is a Republican Govenor whose brother just happens to be President of the United States. Don’t you think it a little hypocritical that they struck a deal to keep the Destin Tracts off limit to exploration and drilling? Like you said, you can’t have it both ways.

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

It is called the NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) philosophy, and let’s be honest, we’re all guilty of it.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Dr R, in principal you are right. Quit paying. But in some cases we are a captive audience and they have us over the barrel so to speak. If retail stores used the same methods that the oil companies and insurers use everyone would be shopping at Walmart. Our politicians insure that the deck is stacked against us in a lot of cases. When automobile insurance became mandatory in Georgia the price shot up almost 400% practically overnight. The insurance companies no longer had to compete to get the dollars of a now captive market. And we all know what happens when you don’t pay your premium. Now on the other hand, if EVERYBODY didn’t pay you could bring em to their knees and force a little reason on them in about 1 day. Especially if it was at the end of a fiscal quarter. Catch my drift? But once again the problem is to get enough people to grow a set.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, have you not seen plenty of people on here calling people on the right fascists. Your point is valid for some people on this board, but it is also valid for people of both parties. Politicians are opportunists will use any situation to their benefit. They will defend their party for one thing and then try to hammer the other party for the same thing. It is part of what is wrong in the political situation of today

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Dr R, The Puget Sound area is one of the most beautiful and unfortunately heavily populated bodies of water in the continental U.S. Any drilling in ANWR would impact us significantly. Those super tankers are already scoping out terminals in the Straits of San Juan de F*******. For better or worse, we are the logical port for them to use. Having seen first hand the havoc that the Exxon Valdez caused, I have no wish to have that repeated in the Puget Sound. Your backyard may be Florida, but mine is the Puget Sound.

By Jewish and Proud of It

February 7, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Gas prices should be kept high, artificially so if needs be. This would FORCE people to conserve. Not only that,and I know I’m gonna get blasted here, but some of the profits reaped from such a manuever should be mandated for alternative fuel research, development and, yes, production. I know I’m going to get it both barrels here for suggesting that the government mandate that the energy industry use a percentage of those profits ONLY for research, development and production of alternative fuel technologies but it may help in the long run…

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

LOL Juan de F’u’c’a gets censored??

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, my use of the term “socialized medicine” is one that I think is familiar, but is not meant as an insult. Many European governments have adopted a socialist economic system, with parties of that name in charge. It basically means that the government replaces free enterprise in the disposition of certain goods or services, such as health care, senior medicine, whatever. In that sense, I think the term fits. While many do use it to demean, I mean only to describe, and do not see fit to attach unseemly labels to those who disagree with me. There’s always that chance, however small, that I might be wrong, and therefore should respect opposing views just in case.

And “progressives” is fine, but if you’re really a liberal don’t shy away from that label. It can be meant as an insult, but should be embraced as a descriptive term. Those who use it as a perjorative term to be ugly aren’t worth your time or concern.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState, of course I think it is hypocritical. That was the point of my post. And you do have a say, its called voting. If you support the drilling then vote for representatives that will vote for it in Congress. To say you don’t have a say is ignorant.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Ricky, If you are trying to compare the say I have to that that Jeb Bush has, you are living in an alternative universe. Of course I have a vote. But we are getting way off track here. I just wanted to find out how supporters of George Bush feel about the deal he struck with his brother to keep the Destin Tracts off limits to exploration and drilling. So far, noone has really come close to answering that question until your last post, where you agreed it was hypocritical. Thank you for answering the question. Now write your congressman and say what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If they are going to open ANWAR to drilling, they should open the Destin Tracts.

By WWJD

February 7, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Does anybody here think for one minute that if a hole was drilled everywhere on earth that there is a pocket of oil that anything would change? Hell no! And then the excuse would be that they were expending more resources for the additional people that it would take to run and maintain these additional facilities. Furthermore it doesn’t do a darn bit of good to drill oil if you don’t have the refining capacity and if you expand that guess what. That additional cost goes right on your bill too. The greedy will always want more and more and more. The priorities of the oil company execs are: 1) greater and greater profits 2) bigger and bigger salaries and bonuses 3) higher and higher ROI to the stockholders.

Don’t be so naive to think that your descretionary dollars are any concern of theirs. You are just the captive audience that gets multiply THEIR descretionary dollars.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Raising gas prices to force conservation is not the answer. Doing so would hurt the economy by driving up prices for everything that must be transported. Companies that rely on transport would be forced to raise prices to recoup their extra costs. So be prepared to pay more at the grocery store, for pizza delivery, everything, in addition to paying more at the pump. Not everyone can afford to go out and buy a $40,000 hybrid right now, nor can we all change jobs or living arrangments on the fly. I say let a market-based approach drive conservation. It’s already happening; seen the sale figures for Ford SUVs lately? Better to boost tax credits for those who conserve than punish those who don’t. People will do what’s in their best interests, so use the carrot rather than the stick.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

If nothing else, tapping our domestic oil supplies could work as a bargaining chip when dealing with the blackmailing corsairs that run OPEC. Maybe we can get some concessions on their part if they know we’re making more of our own. Or, we could sell it to China …

Wash State (sorry I called you Beehive; that’s Oregon, isn’t it?), your concern about Pugett Sound and the Straits of Juan de F-u-c-a (named for a Spanish porn star) is valid, if that is in fact, true. Most of my information has indicated that ANWR drilling would have little effect on the civilized world or the environment of much of the area. I concede that more precautions on making oil transports safer should be a priority. I’ve also seen that the Inuit in the area want the jobs oil companies could bring; while my car doesn’t run on caribou poop or pretty scenery, they can’t eat it, either.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Is anyone on this blog from Texas or Louisiana? How many producing wells in Texas and La. are capped off right now and out of production that could be up and pumping? A couple hundred maybe? A thousand? How many offshore wells are not pumping that could be? More ways that we are smokescreened and played for fools by those who depend on our stupidity. If every single area that the boys from big oil are screaming about were opened we still are going to pay the piper. Only the excuse will change.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

WWJD, that is why monopolies are regulated and often illegal. Capitalist competiion leads to efficient production processes and cheap goods afforded by the masses.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Scooter, you are the dumbass that is being duped and pimped. You talk a good game when it comes to economic but your reality receptors suck.

By the way Scooter. You have a very appropriate nickname.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

There will always be excuses and there will always be pessimistic critics. Capitalism will weed out one of them. Can you guess which one?

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

That is why I am always pushing for more government dependence and regulation of the free market. Calling me duped is about as good as some on here yesterday saying that conservatives were the wussies.

Also DawgBite, I prefer neocon fascist chickenhawk, if you don’t mind? Dumbass just doesn’t do it for me.

By Jim

February 7, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Good one, you’ve got Ralph down well. Now, how about doing a cartoon about Jimmy Carter, the most failed President in our nation’s history and Joe Lowrey, a has-been civil rights leader and the tasteless comments they made at the King funeral

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

So Scooter, are you saying that there are no monopolies in this country? Maybe not by definition but does that include colluders Scoot? When prices are fixed among existing suppliers there is not much difference in that and monopoly. And I guess your reality tells you that these fine upstanding execs are above the tactic of price fixing and collusion huh. What were they doing at that party that Dick Cheney threw. Telling raunchy jokes and watching porno flicks.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Ricky, you’re right. “Fascist” is a label often used the way “socialist” or “pinko” is used when debates disintegrate into name calling.

But sometimes, a skunk IS a skunk, and not a pretty little kitty with a stripe. When people warn of the rise of fascism here today, it’s because we’re actually read about what happened in 20th century Europe and are disturbed by the correlations we see. It’s not necessarily that we WANT to see Andy get his panties in a wad.

To save space, I paraphrased points from an interesting piece worth reading: http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm - Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each: (1) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. (2)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” of prisoners, etc. (3) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
(4) Supremacy of the Military (5) Rampant Sexism (6) Controlled Mass Media (7) Obsession with National Security (8) Religion and Government are Intertwined (9)* Corporate Power is Protected* (10) Labor Power is Suppressed (11) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts (12) Obsession with Crime and Punishment (13) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption (14) Fraudulent Elections

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

OK scat…I mean scoot. Tell us in your psuedo-genious way how the cost of expanding the energy infrastructure and the cost of the associated increase in overhead doesn’t get passed along to the consumer when all of these new areas are opened. Give us the scooternomic skinny.

By the way you sound like my neighbor who is a lobbyist for Marathon oil. Talks a really good game, sounds real smart…until after about his fifth Martini. Then a little truth gets told. Those guys depend on suckers like you to perpetuate their BS.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

DawgBite, are you going to tell us that you don’t appreciate how much BETTER your natural gas service became after de-regulation? Sure, you had to scour confusing brochures and per-therm rates to choose a unique individual gas service provider, but didn’t your rates go down and your service improve noticeably? (I mean, it takes the entire grit-eating world 20 minutes for water to soak into a grit, but on MY gas stovetop, it takes five!) Hahahaha!

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

DawgBite, reading comprehension is a good quality to have.

that is why monopolies are regulated and often illegal. Capitalist competiion leads to efficient production processes and cheap goods afforded by the masses.

If they didn’t exist why would I say they were regulated. Collusion is illegal and OPEC is one who gets away with it.

If your reality has proof of collusion you should contact somebody. You may need to contact the Securituies and Exchange Commission. But, Dick Cheney will probably answer the phone, right.

What party that Cheney threw? I’m not saying he didn’t, I just don’t have a reference point.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

That’s a good one Kimberly. We have more suppliers in the game and AGL still handles all of the admin and service calls. And the first thing they did was cut their field service guys from 52 to 24. And has anyone noticed that in the summer when you don’t use alot of gas that there is an AGL service charge there that is higher than the cost of your gas consumption? Yea buddy. Ole scoots free market system at its everlovin best.

By Robispierre

February 7, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

I plan to vote for Ralph Reed now that I know the Georgia Pharisees, uh, I mean Repubublicans, don’t want him.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this

Like I said before scoot. Your reality sensors have malfunctioned. By the way you never explained how all of the cost associated with opening all of those pet areas up won’t get passed along to consumers and the status quo remains. Come on brainiac. Now is your chance. My guess is you can’t. Your knowlege of economics is not so strong after all. Or is it that you just don’t want to admit that there is no way to do it without the consumers picking up the tab. Tell us scoot. What would be the payoff to the consumer.

And by the way. Why are producing wells capped when everyone is screaming about not enough capacity. Come on scoot. Give us some more scooternomics.

By ShadowMarch

February 7, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

I now proudly wear the label commie mutant traitor moonbat pinko liberal…because I am a patriot.

“Eternal Viligance is the Price of Liberty”.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

DawgBite if I said they would not get passed on to the consumer I would answer your question. But, I didn’t, so I won’t. I will give you a hint though, it depends on where the company is on its marginal cost curve. There are two main forces at work, increased infrastructure cost and increased supply. The later decreases price and the former increases it, so it depends.

I talked to guy once who woprked at McDonalds but that doesn’t mean he is an expert on corporate finance and micro/macro economics.

DawgBite, in regards to your loving comments to Kimberly. It must be nice to be so secure in the thought that the simplest answer is always the right one when it comes to prices. Does anybody on the animosity left have the humility to accept that there are many forces at work and maybe they don’t have a firm grasp of all of them. I don’t have a firm a grasp on a lot of them, but I am in the environental business.

Why do that when you can just scream about gouging, price fixing and collusion, then the great and infowlable governemnt will come in and ease my pains.

DogBite, since you are getting a little venemous, I will leave you.

By ShadowMarch

February 7, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

“Liberal” means disagreeing with George. W. Bush…that means I’m a Liberal.

“Moonbat” means someone who believes the mainstream media more than they do the people who believe Bill Clinton secretly had black helicoptors sweep into WACO and kill secret service agents that used to be his body guards in Ark. [and for the record…Waco was a tragedy…and Clinton handled that incredibly poorly….but that’s beside the issue.]

Commie/Pinko is someone who thinks that sending our troops into a war for the sole sake of a single individual’s family honor and saying that we’re doing it to look for weapons of mass destruction.

Mutant…well, I admit I’ve just added that, but it goes so well with the others.

Traitor….someone who can’t support our troops because they support the war.

Ergo “Commie Mutant Pinko Liberal Moonbat Traitor.”

That’s me.

I will admit, however, I am a MODERATE Commie Mutant Pinko Liberal Moonbat Traitor.

By Amelia

February 7, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

I would guess that he might be talking about the meeting with the oil executives that Bush and Cheney took all the way to the Supreme Court to keep us from knowing what was discussed. And that duck hunting trip that Cheney took Scalia on before the case was heard. The one where they were all alone in the duck blind, but did not discuss the case. I think he may be on to something about the part of your brain that keeps you in touch with reality.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Thank you Amelia, it was a harmless question. Sorry, it has been six years of nothing but screaming and criticisms, with no alternate plans, so I have lost track of some of them. Probably like the left did when Clinton was in office, but the now void Contract With America was at least something.

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

Well scooter I think that most consumers experience the reality of nothing ever working to their advantage no matter how many flowery economic theories are tossed at them. And if you haven’t said that the cost doesn’t get passed along I apologize. This whole thing started when the pro-drillers claimed that it would bring the cost of energy down. It won’t because the cost will get passed to the consumer.

By Amelia

February 7, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

Congratulations ShadowMarch! Wear the title proudly. After reading your definition I guess that I am one too. Maybe from now on when we are characterised as such that we should thank them for the compliment instead of playing into their hands as if it were something negative.

By ShadowMarch

February 7, 2006 05:38 PM | Link to this

“Can’t support our truoops because they DON’T support the war” by the way…

I’m glad we got rid of Saddam…but why we did it is the biggest hypocracy of them all.

And thanks Amelia. If everyone who didn’t think like the Cabal proudly wore the terms they slandered them with, we’d change their definition…

Clearly, “Pinko” is an honorific given the people who are using it.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 05:40 PM | Link to this

Wow, I guess if you fly the flag, you’re on the road to Fascism. Certainly some of the items on your list we can agree are not in our best interest, while others appear to be fairly subjective; for instance, I’m not not sure the good old U.S. of A. has ever embraced intellectualism and the arts, yet we are the last Fascist nation on the globe in our 230 years. Next we’ll hear that anyone who likes country music or pickup trucks should be included on the Neo-Fascist watch list. And most of us would agree that punishing crime is a good thing.

The good news is that we are no closer to being such a country than we ever were, despite your concerns and those from the “arts and intellectual” community. The very fact that you can state your concerns in a common forum without fear of reprisal proves that. Nowhere have true fascists come to power where the citizens had the right to vote them out, and yes, we still do. Hold off on the canned goods and bottled water; it’ll be all right. You’ll be the very one talking the right-wingers off the “pinkos” ledge in a few years when the GOP is back in the minority.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Correction: that was supposed to read “the least fascist nation,” not “the last,” which is an entirely different thing. My bad.

By Amelia

February 7, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

I think that there are alot of us. And more each and everyday. Intelligent people can only ignore what is right before them for so long before the light goes on and finally someone is home. My husband is a West Point grad and I think even he is one of us now.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 05:58 PM | Link to this

Not to cast aspersions on the “moonbats” or their patriotism, but as a Libertarian non-neocon (that’s a mouthful) who supports our ventures in the MidEast, let’s play this game. Paint for me a picture of what the region, and specifically Iraq, would look like now had we not deposed the country’s murderous Stalinese wannabe dictator. Make your case on what policies would have helped us thwart Islamic terrorism and create a stable situation in that very instable region. Make your case and if you sell it well, I’ll put on a Moonbat hat and join you. My point has been that the Iraq invasion was the least of several bad options, first of which was doing nothing. But the floor is yours …

By RE

February 7, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

1 World 79,650,000 2003 est.
2 Saudi Arabia 9,475,000 2005 est.
3 Russia 9,150,000 2005 est.
4 United States 7,610,000 2005 est.
5 Iran 3,979,000 2005 est.
6 China 3,504,000 2004

Excerpt from the CIA fact book. we are the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world, do you think our energy problems really stem from a lack of internal production, or do you think it may be excessive consumption.
World 80,100,000 2003 est.
2 United States 20,030,000 2003 est.
3 European Union 14,590,000 2001
4 China 6,391,000 2004
5 Japan 5,578,000 2003 est.
6 Russia 2,800,000 2005 est

Oil consumption numbers again from the CIA fact book. So we import about 64% of our oil even though we are the 3rd largest producer. Come on now, the problem does not lie in other countries or in our ability to produce. We need to move towards other sources of energy. Adding 5% ethenol to gasoline would cut about 5mil bbl of oil per year out. Most cars can run on up to 20% ethanol.

By Amelia

February 7, 2006 06:05 PM | Link to this

Dr R maybe the most important thing you said was “the least of several bad options.” Why do we seem to always have to settle for the lesser of some evil?

By DawgBite

February 7, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Works that way in our elections too.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

Because the spectre of Islamic terrorism (and in Saddam’s case, fascism) IS evil, and there’s only one way to battle it. What we hear is “the war is wrong, Bush lied,” yadda, yadda. Fair enough. War is never desirable nor should it be accepted without question.

But what would President Gore, or Kerry, have done? Likely nothing. They would have deferred to the U.N., which would continue to issue empty resolutions with no teeth compelling Saddam to comply. There would be no inspectors in Iraq to confirm whether there were weapons programs or not (we only know because the U.S. did something about it). Saddam would continue to terrorize his own citizens, he would still be supporting terrorist organizations in Palestine and elsewhere, he would still be using the oil-for-food kickbacks to build his palaces (and maybe his WMDs)and he would continue to threaten Israel’s national security. Is that status quo acceptable to you?

Peace is not merely the absence of conflict. We learned many times through history that turning a blind eye to dictators only puts off the inevitable. The longer you go, the more they arm themselves and the greater the scale of the conflict. You use diplomacy as long as possible, sanctions after that as long as possible. When both have failed, there isn’t much left.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 06:09 PM | Link to this

RE, do you have the numbers for how much it costs to produce ethanol? From my understanding it is extremely expensive. Our economy is based on oil. What we need to do is produce more oil at home and work on other means at the same time. Why limit ourselves? We should explore all options.

By Amelia

February 7, 2006 06:16 PM | Link to this

But there were no WMDs. And Saddam’s ties to terrorism and especially 9/11 are debatable. Were the inspectors not in Iraq to insure that Saddam was complying with post war (1st)agreements. And they never found any did they? Saddam also knew that from day one he was in Bush’s gunsights. And what about Kim, Jong Il? He fits the profile. Could it be that the reason for the war in Iraq was to put boots on the ground in that region? This war is more than likely about control and Saddam was a very easy target.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

We didn’t know there were no WMDs until we got inspectors back in the country. They were kicked out in ‘98 and the UN did nothing about it. As for terrorism, it is well known that Saddam sent cash bonuses to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. No ties to al-Qaida have been proven, true, but that is just one head of a many-headed serpent. Terrorism is terrorism; we can’t just pick one and hope the others go away.

Kim Jong Il is a posturing tyrant who is looking to get some kind of ransom for his nuclear ambitions, and probably will get it. Same may be true with the Iranian nuts. We haven’t exhausted diplomacy in those cases, and we shouldn’t just yet.

If we wanted control of Iraqi oil fields, why didn’t get take them in ‘91? This argument also is an old one. We don’t want to take over the oil production in these countries; we just want governments we can deal with that can produce it and sell it to us.

By Digger

February 7, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

Congrats all you cowardly Republiscum. 4 more GI’s wasted in Iraq so far today. Just another of our “winning” days.

“Bring it on!!” says our drunken Fuhrer. Yup.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 06:34 PM | Link to this

You gonna tell their families they were “wasted” rather than serving their brethren and their country? That’s not gonna go over too well.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

Amen Dr.

To your little hypothetical I would add that the dictators would be dividing their dictatorship with favoritism, control of the media and general terror. Did anyone find it odd that he continually won elections in the ninety % range and it got better every year? Back to the point, the hopelessness and despair felt by the oppressed would be pimped in the local Madrasa, by promising of brighter futures with Allah. The little terrorist don’t seem to believe the oil was purchased on the world market and their dictators are to blame.

By RE

February 7, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Dr R,

My Moonbat Thesis

What might have happened had we not invaded Iraq. This is tough to imagine with GWB in office, but lets give it a shot. After 9-11, we had tremendous sympathy and support from the entire world, yes you did see palistinians celebrating, but that was fairly minor. After 9-11 we mount a campaign in Afganistan and depose the Taliban, just as we did. However the Axis of Evil speech would never have happened, that one speech has done more to generate anti-american feelings throughout the middle east than any other speech, it was idiotic to say the least. We never invade Iraq, Saddam is still in power, however with the same restrictions in place as always. His people are oppressed, but not in a war zone. The big change comes from Iran, where prior to 9-11 there was a reform movement that gained ground after the attacks and started to move away from radical islam. They had elected a reformist president in the late 90s and the mullahs were losing control. There was and still is a growing middle class in iran. Our president called three nations evil, then attacked one of them. What do you think happened to the other two. Iran saw the threat posed by the US and reverted to a nationalist and islamist state, currently the state that is pushing for nuclear weapons

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

We always hear how we should not have invaded “a sovereign nation.” What counts as sovereign, exactly? A dictator who allows no political opposition? A country that threatens both its own citizens and its neighbors with genocide? A government that thumbs its nose at the world community, the United Nations and all of civilization? I guess we’re just supposed to let it all go then.

Yes, no doubt, we’d probably have 2,200 of our solders’ lives back, and that’s no small thing. No guarantee they wouldn’t have been casualties in a far bigger confict, the one that involved Israel and every other nation in the region, and probably the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

Does RE have you lost in the nuance again?

Dr. R. I hope you have the patience in your years. I envy your wisdom and tact, but I would rather go to the bar than show people what they should remember.

By Bill

February 7, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

Imprison Bush NOW.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 06:54 PM | Link to this

Re: You make some good points, but one line stands out in bright red to me: “His people are oppressed but not in a war zone.” That speaks volumes about our different viewpoints. It’s as if to say the former isn’t as bad as the latter. Part of the whole war argument, I think, revolves around the concept of accepting totalitariansm as a given condition. Our country was founded on the concept of liberty above all else, as a condition that is not negotiable. Is it better to live in poverty and oppression instead of fighting for something better? Sure glad our founders didn’t think so. That’s why it’s very hard for many of us to consider that abject tyranny is better than having your house blown up. In my view, if that house is in a country that gives me no freedom, then by all means blow the damn thing up and be done with it.

By RE

February 7, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

And that is a decision we came to and fought for by ourselves. Call me isolationist, but I do not want to go around correcting the ills of every other nation at our expense.

Just for clarification, are you advocating preemptive war for any country that limits freedom, or just Iraq?

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

RE, your contention that Iran was reforming and moving around away from the mullahs is false. When the initial elected a new government in the late 90’s there was hope that it was going to affect some change. However, that didn’t happen. You are correct in saying that there is a growing middle class in Iran that is actually pretty pro-American. However, did you not see the stories about the election fraud that took place there in their latest elections? The mullahs will never allow a true reformist government to take hold. The only way that place is going to change is for the people to overthrow them. With the current situation there and the involvement of the EU, UN, and other parties invovled, hopefully we can get them to move away from their nuclear ambitions and move toward a more moderate government.

By Dr R

February 7, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

Just the ones for whom efforts in diplomacy and sanctions are exhausted; who flaunt the rule of international law; who pose a threat to the nations around them; and that already have shown a willingness to use military might for devious ends (Kurds, Kuwait). So yeah, the only one filling all those requirements in recent years is Iraq. Iran and North Korea now have the ball in their court to see if they are going to join the civilized world and avoid the same fate.

To answer your question briefly before I head out: Pre-emptive war should only be used when there is no way to avoid war of any kind. Kid yourself into thinking we didn’t need to get Saddam, but it would have happened at some point, on Bush’s watch or someone else’s. Evil ain’t going away, and it ain’t going to make friends, like Jimmy Carter thinks. You have to kill it before it kills you.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 07:14 PM | Link to this

DrR, Hey, I’m back. Dude, I fly a flag in front of my house, and have since before 9-11 made it CHIC. The list I posted earlier (http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm) was abbreviated so as not to annoy the good people here. If you would read the whole piece, you’d see I’m not talking about flying the flag, nor people choosing to go to church, nor having a system of criminal justice. What I’m talking about is taking things to an extreme, in which “you’re either with us or against us” and in which the rights of INDIVIDUALS are diluted, while the rights of corporations are strenghtened, and religion seeps deeply into governmen policy, and the government takes a greater role, day by day, in dictating individual behavior “for the good of the state.”

Have you ever read Mein Kampf? I have. Hilter was a sick bastard, but his methods were quite effective. So effective, it seems, that Karl Rove enjoys applying them to modern America. (No, I’m not calling Rove a Nazi, whichever little monkey is about to screech, I’m saying he is applying the same tactics employed by 20th Century fascist leaders to get a tight grip on the populace.)

IMO, people need to focus less on the labeling, name calling, and flinging of feces, and start paying attention to what is actually going on. Some comprehension of history might help to put it in perspective too.

By Ricky

February 7, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, I read the link you provided and it was an interesting read. If you consider what Hilter was actually able to pull off, it was quite amazing. However, I don’t see what the current administration as doing is using the tactics of the fascists. Sure, if you take it to an extreme you can make a shaky corrolation, but I don’t think that is the case here. And for the record before you go off about me being a blind follower of Bush, I am not. I openly disagree with many of his policies. I view myself as a conservative first, a republican second. Yes i voted for Bush both times because he represented my views better than Gore or Kerry, although all three are pretty weak in my opinion. I think you hatred of Bush has blinded your view of the situation making the parrallels to fascism easier for you to make, but like I said just my opinion

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

I think I’ll log him in as Dr.Reticent.

By kimberly

February 7, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Ricky, thanks for taking the time to read it. I don’t recall posting anywhere today that I hate King Dubya (that doesn’t mean I didn’t, but I don’t remember doing that today.) So why do you assume whatever I say is based on that premise? And if this country is moving in the direction of fascism, then it’s not the fault of one or two people. There are many factors compliclit in such a transition, for example, the millions of Americans who couldn’t name their own Congressman or Lt. Governor, but who can tell you each contestant that was kicked off American Idol, and what they were wearing. The media isn’t controlled the way the Soviets controlled TASS, but it IS owned by an increasingly small group of people with large financial interests in the current administration’s policies. It’s amazing the news we’re NOT getting.

And our very own leader’s words, “You’re either with us or against us” are frankly more divisive than I’m comfortable with. Hence, I think, my compulsion to come here and debate. And yes, corporations (like FORD) get huge tax breaks (to create jobs) and then lay people off (blame unions) while benefits for the families of the unemployed dwindle, while decent-paying jobs are outsourced, while people call you “UN-American” if you stand up and say “Hey wait just a doggone minute!” Every day I stand up with an observation or a question about my country, and every day some feces-flinger calls me a “traitor” for doing so.

Am I really just paraniod, Hon, or are we perhaps just a little past even?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

Feces-flinger?

Anybody want to look up ^^^^^ at the cartoon and tell me who is slinging what around here? You libs and the Muslim rioters have alot in common. You are free to call people pigs and rats but you get all upset, set things on fire and act all prima donna when somebody calls you names. You both hate the United States and long for it’s defeat. If you could learn to wear Burqas and pray to Allah 7 times a day, I think you pinkos merge with the Middle East and create a sand filled lib paradise. If they let you up in the palace, that is.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

I am going to revive an older thread here. I was saying that the Feds are making a futile gesture at “balancing the budget” by cutting funding to the most helpless amongst us, namely children and the disabled. Dusty took me to task, saying the state of Georgia had a program called Peachcare that provided care for low income children. Does anyone here besides Dusty not realize that Peachcare is part of medicaid and that it is a matching program funded by state and federal dollars. Does anyone else not realize that it precisely these programs like SCHIP and EPDST that are on the chopping block. You’d think with all the pork in the budget, they could come up with a better way to make a token gesture. Heck, just the overpayments to Halliburton would keep half the programs alive.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:00 PM | Link to this

Washington State,

The coc will scream about programs you have mentioned but are in favor of giving this money to Iraq.

Why do they hate our country?

Traitors!

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:03 PM | Link to this

getalife, What means “coc”?

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

culture of corruption.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

getalife: Because “our country” has become an old tired worn out pity party. We see freshness and hope in the Iraqi people, not manufactured destitution.

Just look at the sullen utter lack of class and respect on display at Mrs. King’s funeral. You want to talk about me sowing decisiveness, what about Jimmy Carter, former President of the United States? Has he lost control of his functions? Must he and Mr. Lowry perpetuate hate and class warfare to keep themselves in business?

Is a message of anger and rage uplifting to you liberals?

By Objective Observer

February 7, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

R.W.:

In that you are a busy fellow, I have appointed myself as Philosophical Assistant on your site. This one is up for consideration. I hope it does not get censored, it shouldn’t:

“The only “intuitive” interface is the nipple. After that, it’s all learned.” By: Bruce Ediger

Too long? You can fire me at any point, I am not emotional.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:14 PM | Link to this

Andy,

We see freshness and hope in the Iraqi people, not manufactured destitution.

Thanks for proving my point.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

getalife: You had a point?

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 08:20 PM | Link to this

Objective Observer,

I like it! Done.

By getalife

February 7, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Andy,

The point was you prefer Iraq over your own country. Are you American or Iraqi?

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

getalife: If I had a choice where to send my money, it’s true, I would rather give it to the Iraqis. After all, they are more appreciative. Plus, they don’t multiply into many many needy people quite the way you pinkos do. It has become a very successful career in America to be needy of my money.

We have better bass fishing lakes and more places to hunt, so I give the nod to the USA but the inhabitants are making it a close call.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

It really is amazing that we were able to forge this nation out of the wilderness like we did, if you consider how many lame people there are just hanging out in this one blog. It would have been crippling to the settlers efforts if they would have had to tote wagonloads of freeloaders all across the fruited plains. We should be thankful for those that carried their own weight, their pioneering spirit opened the door for Hollywood to create movies like “Brokeback Mountain” in their honor.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this

getalife, Noone is screaming about those programs. They seem to be one of the best kept secrets in America. Certainly, congressmen up for re election are not saying a word about them. The disabled and children are too helpless to fight back. My guess is that is why they were chosen for the token budget balancing act.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this

I will say one thing: the Republican candidate for governor in Washington State who made such a big point of being an advocate for disabled children is not saying a word. Looks like he lost his compassion.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:44 PM | Link to this

Andy, You think an adult with Down’s syndrome should carry their own weight?

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Maybe we should do like China and abandon them on the side of the road. That seems to work for them. Or I guess we could abort them all.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:47 PM | Link to this

I think we have reached the true meaning of compassionate conservatism with this last budget.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState: Come on man, use a little common sense. I’m talking about grown men and women that are perfectly capable of contributing but the system has just made it too lucrative for them to even try.

By Andy

February 7, 2006 08:56 PM | Link to this

What’s even worse, these people that are scamming the system and taking resources away from the truly needy, like children with Down’s syndrome for instance. People like that are the bottom of the barrel, but Jimmy Carter gets weepy around them and they feel empowered. They spend their whole lives taking away from others.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

Andy,

The budget cuts will not affect those lowlives. They will affect the disabled and children. My experience is that p’i’s’s poor protoplasm knows no party. I have seen just as many Republican trailer trash as I have seen Democratic trailer trash. There are those who live on welfare from generation to generation and I have no problems with cutting them loose, be they democrat or republican. That is not what this latest budget is about.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

Andy, I am using common sense. The proposed budget cuts will primarily affect children and the disabled. You can spin it anyway you want, but that is their biggest effect.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 09:03 PM | Link to this

Actions speak louder than words.

By Midori

February 7, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

Just look at the sullen utter lack of class and respect on display at Mrs. King’s funeral. You want to talk about me sowing decisiveness, what about Jimmy Carter, former President of the United States? Has he lost control of his functions? Must he and Mr. Lowry perpetuate hate and class warfare to keep themselves in business?

Actually, they rocked.

Tell me, is the problem really that these men spoke from their hearts, or is it that Bush was out of his comfort zone comprised of hand picked, prescreened white audiences?

That bubble can’t protect him everywhere.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

Midori, This from supporters of the most divisive president since Roosevelt. What a hoot!

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 09:35 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

I expect a clueless statement about class from Midori. I don’t from you, normally you see things a little more rationally.

Jimmy Carter and Joseph Lowry showed their disdain and tried to score political points by embarrassing a sitting President that was paying his respects at a funeral.

This was no where near as over the top as Rosa Parks funeral or Paul Wellstone’s memorial service, but it was still classless and out of place.

These guys can get a televised appearance anytime they want, they don’t need to make a mockery of themselves at a funeral.

By buff

February 7, 2006 09:38 PM | Link to this

Washington State

I am sick of the poor and “less fortunate” (with a few exceptions). Just watch teh parasites from Katrina

Simple economics: If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it

In the real world: If you want more welfare and parasites, spend more money in that direction;

If you want less success, use the police power of the government to seize people’s property, usually money, and then take that property to fund the above subsidy

It is not rocket science

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

RW, I gotta admit that I only know about the Carter comments from Drudge, but they seem pretty innocuous there. More like a case of “if the shoe fits, wear it.” Do you have a more complete transcript of what was said?

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

The video clips are here. You’ll have to scroll down a little because he has them in two separate posts.

If you think it’s innocuous to try to stir up political and racial animosity at a funeral, that’s an opinion I would strongly disagree with you on.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

RW, Pretty much what Drudge said. I think MLK would have been proud of Carter. He didn’t attack Bush, he told the truth about what MLK went through in his life and about the response to Katrina. If the shoe fits, wear it.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

He also left out the part about it being the Kennedy’s authorizing the wiretaps on MLK.

And you aren’t naive enough to think that was a stroll down memory lane.

By Scooter

February 7, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

It’s a shoe, yeah. But there were shoes for all involved, were there not? To bring politics to a funeral no es bueno. Should Bush have said anythng about the black “leaders” not standing up against the hip hop gangster rap culture, ignored by the black and white democrat “leaders”. Oh yeah, the democrats need that animosity in the black community. Gotta keep them scared of the boogie man and minimize great examples like Condi and the others.

Herman Cain will set the record straight when he gets back in the ring. Oh and he is a black conservative baptist minister, so he will really drive the left crazy.

Good night all.

By Mike

February 7, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

I don’t recall any occasion when a republican has used a funeral or somthing like that to attack a political opponent. It was low class but not unexpected.Imagine the hell raising if President Bush had not shown up.

By finch

February 7, 2006 10:32 PM | Link to this

RW,

I think Carter’s point in his eulogy was that wiretaps based on flimsy or false evidence are bad, no matter who orders them. And I see J. Edgar Hoover’s large meaty hand in the MLK wiretaps (based on Hoover’s “informants”), even if RFK, as Attorney General, authorized them.

Just the same, Carter’s remarks were a tad over the top. This was a funeral, not a political event.

Joseph Lowery’s remarks were WAY over the top. Wrong place, wrong time.

I’m sorry to see that you’ve fallen for the inspired lie that Paul Wellstone’s funeral was one big Bush bashing event. It wasn’t. Republicans weren’t loudly booed, video screens did not flash “cheers” and “jeers” prompts, etcetera. My friends in St. Paul who were there, or watched the whole thing on local TV say that. And Al Franken spends about 30 pages systematically demolishing that canard in “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them”. This is one incident where Franken is a lot more credible than Rush, Tucker Carlson or Peggy Noonan, none of whom were actually there.

Let’s just agree that funerals are no place to play politics.

By Mike

February 7, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

Finch, I’m glad you agree that funerals arn’t the place for politics,but just so you know,”Lies and lying liars” is by a liar who writes them.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 10:44 PM | Link to this

OH my, the sky is falling! The sky is falling! Those pesky Republicans are making the sky fall. They are making gas prices rise. They are throwing little children out in the ice and snow. They only help “seniors” because of Florida. They are listening to your conversations to alQueda illegally. They want to kill caribou and the tundra. Bush speaks only at funerals of prescreened audiences. Bush directs hurricanes after he blows up levees. Bush makes war on sweet little dictatorships. ON and ON and ON. The sky is falling!

Shadow March has come up with a fitting title for most “sky fallers”. That is: Commie Mutant Pinko Liberal Moonbat Traitor. Now that rocks!

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this

RW, It sounds like the real problem was there were a bunch of angry black men who attacked Bush. What Carter said was pretty innocuous unless you put it in that context. MLK was harrassed by the FBI. Illegal wiretaps were carried out. Democrats and Republicans were involved in the harrassment. I think you are protesting too much. I lived in Atlanta during those days and what Carter said is no exageration. Maybe it did make Bush uncomfortable, but that is his problem, not Carter’s. I would also venture to say that there is hardly a black person in America who doesn’t feel like the fiasco in New Orleans shows that America is still racially divided. If MLK had been alive, I am sure he would have mentioned it as an indication that there is still a lot of work to be done. Now if you want to talk about the appropriateness of some of the other speakers, I would agree you have a point.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

Dusty,

I checked up on your Peachcare. It is a SCHIP program, part of medicaid and definitely going to be hurting with the new budget. SCHIP is a matching funds federal and state funded program. Why did you think it would be helpful for me to know about it? It is the same program that is going to be hurting in Washington and every other state.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

finch,

You may have figured out that I am something of a political junkie and I watch these things with my own eyes.

My eyes aren’t deceiving me. It wasn’t all bad, it just progressed that way. Pretty much beginning with Rick Kahn on to Tom Harkin, and through Wellstone’s son.

Jesse Ventura walked out in disgust.

So if it’s all the same to you, or even if it isn’t, I will believe myself over Al Franken.

Now for Carter, this was just a tad over the top:

“This commemorative ceremony this morning, this afternoon, is not only to acknowledge the great contributions of Coretta and Martin, but to remind us that the struggle for equal rights is not over. We only have to recall the color of the faces of those in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi,” Carter said.

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

RW, I think that was well said. Whether you blame Bush or blame the fact that the South has not really changed all that much since the sixties, it doesn’t really matter. The struggle for equal rights is not over.

By Mike

February 7, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

Wasington,what republicans? MLK was wiretaped by the Kennedys. I’m sure Carter would have never approved,but since he may well be the worst president of my lifetime ,who cares what he thinks?

By WashingtonState

February 7, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

Mike, All right, there were no Republicans involved in the harrassment of MLK. That make you happy?

By Mike

February 7, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this

yep

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

My daughter was wiped out by Katrina in Biloxi. Last I checked she is still a young white girl just starting to make her own way in the world. I donated every dime I could spare to the relief efforts and last time I checked I’m an old white guy Republican. Imagine my shock to find that only blacks were affected and nobody would help them.

The deaths in New Orleans were disproportionately white,that wouldn’t have been appropriate to mention either.

If you think South is just one cesspool of bigots, then you are a complete idiot. Sorry for the harsh language, but stereotyping an entire region or group of people p-isses me off like very little else.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this

Washington State,

I mentioned Georgia PeachCare when you talked like there would be no healthcare for children in your state if there were budget cuts. I know nothing about the funding, just that PeachCare is a state program. PeachCare probably does get additional funding from the Feds. But, even with budget cuts, I do not think sick children will go without care if their parents get them to the proper places.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Here you go finch, send a copy to Stuart Smalley.

By Stuck in Arizona

February 7, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

Ricky, you say if I do not like drilling in ANWAR, to vote for representatives who will not vote for the drilling plan? Tell me as a liberal stuck in Arizona with two Republican Senators, and a Republican Representative, just how my views are going to be presented in Washington. This country is so gerrymandered, (see Texas), that there are very few competitive districts left in this country. There are millions of people out there who are stuck with zero representation, just like me. You are fooling yourself if you think that our current mix of alustrious leadership in Washington represents the majority, and the mainstream view. How can our system represent the will of the people, when the presidency is decided on corrupt elections such as the ones held in Florida and Ohio? Those minority Dem Senators in Congress represent more people, than do the majority on your side of the aisle. It is time for the real majority to be heard in this country!

By finch

February 7, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

RW,

From one political junkie to another (that’s a compliment!) Kahn’s eulogy at Wellstone’s funeral was over the top. Even Franken says that. But I didn’t think the ones by Harkin or Wellstone’s kid were anywhere close to outrageous. All of the other speakers in the 3+ hour service seemed acutely respectful of the occasion. At least to me. The story that the Wellstone funeral was an anti-GOP orgy is a myth.

My prayers go to your daughter. I wish her the best.

Washington State,

Please don’t stereotype the South. This ain’t 1954. And as MLK himself said after an equal housing march through the Chicago suburb of Cicero in (I think) 1964, “Chicago could teach the South how to hate.”

Mike,

Franken also speaks much truth. So does Ann Coulter. I may not agree with everything they say, but I don’t dismiss either out of hand. Even Rush sometimes gets his facts straight! (<

By finch

February 7, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

RW,

Thanks for the link. I stand my my earlier post. Using brief, selective sound bites from a 3 1/2 hour long service can be highly misleading. The Wellstone funeral was not a wall to wall GOP hatefest. Not even close.

By RW-(the original)

February 7, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

finch,

Maybe Harkin has a habit of getting caught up in the moment at the worst possible times.

Following Kahn is one, the look on his face standing behind Crazy Howie at the Iowa meltdown was priceless.

By Dusty

February 7, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

RW,

Sorry to hear about your daughter’s losses. Glad she wasn’t hurt. Hope “things” will be back in shape very soon.

I will send you some Claxton fruitcake and Manischevitz. That will make you feel happy. It is better than “biting the bullet” when frustration hits. I keep it handy when blogging.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

RW, I was born in Atlanta and visit there every year. Atlanta has changed, but 60 miles in any direction brings you back to the old South. There is one nice restaurant in Jasper, Georgia. The next time you are there, check out the picture in the men’s room. I got a son who practices law in Atlanta and he has found that outside of Atlanta, you need to be very careful about the color of the jury you pick. The people I grew up with haven’t changed their real attitudes much and they pretty much own the town. So don’t lecture me about how I have no right to stereotype an area. You need to spend a little time down in Southern Alabama and the panhandle and then come back and tell me how tolerant they are.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

Thank you, she is fine. She had only moved there at the end of July to open a Starbucks at the Hard Rock, so she didn’t have a lot of established roots.

She was going to ride it out, but I convinced her on Saturday to get out. Her apartment actually wound up without much damage, but driving through there with her later I don’t know how anybody expects President Bush to snap his fingers and make everything whole again.

As nice as the offer of strange baked goods and bad wine sounds, I would hate to deprive you in the event of a blogging explosion.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 12:07 AM | Link to this

finch, I couldn’t agree with you more. I have lived in big cities in the Northeast and their kind of racism is much sneakier than the south’s, but it is still there.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 12:08 AM | Link to this

The bottom line, we all have a long ways to go when it comes to racial tolerance.

Carter obviously touched a nerve when he brought that up.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 12:10 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

Sorry, I’ve lived all over Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama for most of my life and usually in rural areas. You are wrong and are simply playing up a stereotype that exists mostly in bad memories and Hollywood.

If you choose to think I have lived an experience free life, do so at your own peril. It wasn’t a lecture it was calling you out on your own bulls-hit.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 12:14 AM | Link to this

Dusty, Peachcare is a state program, but it only exists because of federal funds. The federal funds pay 100% of the costs of care for people living below the federal poverty level and match dollar for dollar any state funds spend for people living above that level. It is going away unless there are some changes in the current program.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

RW, When I was in the Army in the 70’s I was stationed in Dothan, Alabama. I went to buy a shotgun for myself and the first thing I was asked was did I want it to shoot blacks or to shoot deer (ha,ha). My father traveled extensively thru the South into the 80’s with the government. His job was to investigate claims of racial discrimination. He had no shortage of work. I am not singling out the South. Pretty much the whole country has its problems with that particular issue. From an old white Republican’s perspecitive, that may be hard to believe, but try talking to a young black professional.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

One of my first experiences in the South was being a six year old, in 1961, at a gas station in Augusta and wondering why there were three bathrooms. Men, women, and colored. I’ve told this story here before and I don’t intend to post my life story every time somebody like you wants to say that nothing has changed.

That memory stuck with me throughout my teen years as just horribly wrong and I worked for change and watched change occur. It’s one of the biggest reasons I am a Republican today. Make fun of that if you want, but I see the bigotry in the Democrat party that tells an entire race of people that they can’t do it on their own, as that same third bathroom.

Don’t patronize me with this tripe of who I may or may not choose to talk to so that I might understand. My experiences deal with actually doing something, not being offended by a shotgun salesman.

By Dusty

February 8, 2006 01:06 AM | Link to this

RW,

I’d better break out the cake and ‘schevitz. Washington State doesn’t even know SHE is prejudiced. Talk to a young black professional? I not only talk with them but work with them, go to church with them and hold some dear as friends. At a recent family funeral, one of my black friends sang for us. Another (with an engineering degree) made a brief talk to encourage the family. Such pointless accusations. Does she not think that we can dig up some unpleasant racial acts and statistics if we wanted to? I would not betray my black friends with rabble rousing.

Well, it is one AM.. This southern babe(ha) is going to bed. G’nite.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 01:11 AM | Link to this

Dusty,

Goodnight! WasingtonState has mentioned having a wife though and other than a passing reference doesn’t seem to live in Massachusetts, so I go with he. Albeit a highly misinformed he.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 01:16 AM | Link to this

RW, I had a good friend who happened to be black. He moved to a town near here to practice neurosurgery. Only problem was that too many of his clients got up and walked out the door when they saw he was black. He is now running a trauma center in Portland, Oregon while we have a shortage of neurosurgeons in the area. Ironic, isn’t it. That isn’t a unique story either. Just because there are no longer colored only bathrooms doesn’t mean people have changed. I was talking to a group of developers in Atlanta last summer and it was deja vu all over again. Most of them were Republicans. But there are plenty of Democrats stuck in the same place. I am sorry if I have offended you, but the truth is that it hasn’t been that long since I left the South and my family has worked for the same things you claim to have worked for for the last two generations. You and I just see things through different eyes.

By Dusty

February 8, 2006 01:31 AM | Link to this

RW,

OK, so HE is prejudiced.

Here we go. My husband had three endoscopics done by a BLACK FEMALE doctor. He didn’t walk out the door.

I had minor skin surgery by a BLACK MALE dermatologist. I didn’t walk out the door.

Now, Washington State, please give me instructions as to when I should walk out the door so I can see with different eyes.

G’nite all (again).

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 01:33 AM | Link to this

Maybe I am a little grumpy because I have been working with the county health department trying to figure out how we are going to provide care for the kids and the disabled in the area next year. Never a pleasant task. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic in how I worded what I said, but I stand by its substance.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 01:34 AM | Link to this

Dusty, You are a peach. Don’t change a thing.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

One of the most insidious statements of all is the way you started that last post about having black friends. “Some of my best friends are black” should offend anyone.

Maybe the neurosurgeon wouldn’t have people running for the exits if people getting ready to have their brains laid open on an operating table weren’t worried about whether their surgeon had been passed on by some affirmative action program.

I’m sorry, but when you claim that a race isn’t capable of doing something without a special pass into the field you are going to have people wondering whether the person is capable.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is the way our President put it, truer words were never spoken.

I don’t make idle claims and I really don’t care if you choose to make the implication that I do. I know better and I would never tell you that “many of best friends” do as well.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 01:46 AM | Link to this

RJ,

Nice job of twisting the meaning of that post. I agree that “some of my best friends are black” is the poorest excuse for racism yet. How you got that from a statement that one of my friends who is a neurosurgeon is black is beyond me, but I guess any hope of constructive dialogue went out the window when I tried to point out that racism was still a problem in this country. For you, the glass is half full. For me, it is half empty.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 01:53 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

Assuming that I am “RJ”, the problem is that people with your point of view tend to say that you should be happy to accept a lesser service because it “helps the black folks out”. I say that all people are capable of the same level of competence.

Spot the bigot.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 01:58 AM | Link to this

RW, Finally a statement we can agree on. We probably disagree on what it means tho. For me, it means that we all should have the same educational opportunities from day 1. This affirmative action stuff is closing the barn door after the cow is out.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 02:00 AM | Link to this

RW,

BTW, just as I have probably made some assumptions about you and offended you in the process, do me a favor and stop making assumptions about me.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 02:12 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

I wouldn’t say finally. You and I have probably reached agreement from different sides more than any two people in blog history, but your implication that some are inherently not as capable as others is a non starter.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

RW, That is the assumption I was talking about. I don’t believe that some are inherently less capable, just that the deck is stacked differently. All other things being equal, there should be no difference. Unfortunately, all other things are not equal and that is where we part ways. How to fix that is the real question. If all of us got the same educational opportunities and if all of us grew up with the same expectations, I think there would be no problem. Like I said, affirmative action is closing the barn door after the cow is out.

By RW-(the original)

February 8, 2006 02:37 AM | Link to this

WashingtonState,

Strangely we agree again, but with very different consequences. One of us pretends that people don’t have equal opportunities, the other has had their head bashed in for marching.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 02:44 AM | Link to this

RW, You too? Actually, my indoctrination started before that. I used to ride the bus from school downtown and generally sat wherever there were seats. I remember the nice people who rode the bus always tried to get me to move when I sat next to a “colored” person. My father went to work for the EEOC and we used to have community meetings in our house in Buckhead, much to our neighbors’ consternation. But I still don’t think people have equal opportunities. My wife works for a big school district and spends her whole life trying to level the playing field. (and not just for African Americans.) Her take is that for most kids, it is too late by the time they get to school.

By WashingtonState

February 8, 2006 02:45 AM | Link to this

I take that back. She thinks as long as they can make one connection with a caring adult, they have a chance.

By Objective Observer

February 8, 2006 06:29 AM | Link to this

Washington State:

I went to bed last night feeling your sense of despair over budget cuts and their effect on the disabled and children. I, too work with developmentally delayed children, albeit in the education field (private school). After years of working weekends (without pay) to help our school raise funds, we finally hired a fundraiser, who, within one year, was able to get corporations to donate annually. Within one year after her employment, she has been able to solicit enough money to build a state-of-the-art facility. Up until then, we were working in cramped quarters, with little resources. Corporations are instrumental in helping with the cost of equipment, for each individual child (very expensive). They also pay for scholarships so that children can attend. I realize, that health care is your concern, but these are just examples of what the private sector can do.

I have been reading that states are in better fiscal shape than they have been for years, and hopefully, they can implement programs at their level, although at the state and county level, they can be very wasteful. They actually create projects whereby they can use federal funds wastefully to encourage voters to keep electing them. Federal government should never be relied upon for continuous funding, it leaves the people at the mercy of big government and stifles creative thinking.

As to racial issues. Thirty some odd years of government entitlements has not helped African Americans, to the contrary, it has hurt them by holding them “down”. Young and progressive black leaders are beginning to see this trend and are speaking out. I have great hopes that African Americans will listen to their message and aspire to become independent of government and the strangle-hold that it has had on them.

On a lighter note, I was seen by an African American gynecologist. I have to admit, it was a new experience for me, I did not run from his office because my feet were firmly planted in the stirrups with confidence.

By Simon Jester

February 8, 2006 06:40 AM | Link to this

Ralph Reed: Bush after chemical castration.

By Scooter

February 8, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

Well said OO,

I live in the 30310 area code and see many blacks realizing who wants to give them fish and who thinks they can fish for themselves. But, the left does try to keep them scared of those hateful conservatives, who try to stop giving out fish.

RW, “the soft bigotry of low expectations” is one of my fovorite bushisms, well that and misunderestimated.

OO, have you ever read Affirmative Action Around the World, By Thomas Sowell. It is a good read and very enlightening. I am going to get that Napkin Notes on the Art of Living taht you recommended to someone the other day.

By Joe Roman

February 11, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this

I have an actual life, so I don’t get to this site all that often, but in case you ever actually look at these posts, I just had to tell you that “Meet Your New Editor” was hilarious. Your characterizations are among the best ever in your field, Mike. I’m a big fan.

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