Mike Luckovich

By RW-(the original)

December 5, 2005 09:20 PM | Link to this

A cartoon that seems to say we should get rid of government entitlements and streamline programs?

Who are you and what have you done with ml?

By Objective Observer

December 5, 2005 09:35 PM | Link to this

I’m all behind this one. The plan is like giving caramels to someone with no teeth.

By finch

December 5, 2005 09:42 PM | Link to this

Mike hits the ball out of the park on this one. The Medicare prescription drug plan is a monster that will devour the fixed incomes of elderly Americans, as the NYTimes Paul Krugman points out:

• “Once you recognize that the drug benefit is a purely political exercise that wasn’t supposed to serve its ostensible purpose, the absurdities in the program make sense. For example, the bill offers generous coverage to people with low drug costs, who have the least need for help, so lots of people will get small checks in the mail and think they’re being treated well.*

  Meanwhile, the people who are actually likely to need a lot of help paying their drug expenses were deliberately offered a very poor benefit. According to a report issued along with the final version of the bill, people are prohibited from buying supplemental insurance to cover the doughnut hole to keep beneficiaries from becoming “insensitive to costs” - that is, buying too much medicine because they don’t pay the price.”

Read it and weep!

Oh, great. The Bushbot plan specifically penalizes elderly Americans who need expensive drugs to maintain health. It’s a win-win-win situation!! The drug companies rake in the cash; insurance companys are actually BANNED from offering expensive (for them) supplemental policies, and the GOP can crow that they’re holding down expenses.

And the elderly? Details, details….

Merry Christmas.

By Semper Fi

December 5, 2005 09:55 PM | Link to this

I thought this drug bill was suppose to cost taxpayers billions in payouts. Well is it? If it cost more money, someone is getting a great benefit. And please don’t say those rich drug companies.

By bob

December 5, 2005 09:58 PM | Link to this

Dumb as hell as usual

By buff

December 5, 2005 09:59 PM | Link to this

Do away with Medicare and Medicaid

ML is just boring

By finch

December 5, 2005 10:15 PM | Link to this

Do away with the incomprehensible maze of employee and private insurance policys and the incredible overcharges they entail.

The US pays at least 50% more per capita in health care costs than do people in Canada, France, Britain, and Germany. Not co-incidentally, all these nations have simple, everyone is covered government health care plans. Nobody worries about insurance policies, variable pre-payments and co-payments, or pre-existing conditions.

Health insurance companies in the US spend 24% of their gross income on administrative expenses. Administrative costs in foreign government health care plans average 2%.

Eliminate the hordes of paper-pushers in the private sector whose primary jobs are determining why you are NOT covered for the proceedure you so desperately need.

The KISS rule (Keep It Simple, Stupid) should rule.

Hillary’s health care plan (remember that?) was far from perfect, but it would have been far better than the system we have now. And no, I do not want Hillary for President.

I speak from experience as a cancer survivor.

By Semper Fi

December 5, 2005 10:24 PM | Link to this

I have friends from England. They like the fact it is free but say the service is terrible. Actually, my pastor is from England and since here, has had a heart attack. He plans to live in the US, pay the premiums and stay alive. Gov’t medicene would be as good as gov’t schools.

What we need is tort reform. The John Edwards of the world, don’t need to be taking millions. Everyone is paying the price for this.

By finch

December 5, 2005 10:33 PM | Link to this

Semper fi, I totally agree with you on tort reform. Yeah, we’re off topic, but WTF? Trash the suits over asbestos, Vioxx, tobacco, fast food, Coca-Cola and hangnails.

Trash the lawyers, too.

Merry Christmas!

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 04:42 AM | Link to this

Isn’t biting the hand that feeds you a sign of a wild animal? Isn’t saying we aren’t doing enough for the poor and elderly but then whining about the first program that comes down the pike a sign of insanity?

Is there anything that a pinko won’t complain about?

Merry Christmas!

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:11 AM | Link to this

This is a description of Magaret Cho’s new video-

With Cho it’s like this: “Does the pope look like a transvestite or what?” Pause. Applause and woo-woos. Pause. Pause. Pause. Look around. Wait. Pause. “I mean, what’s with that dress he wears?” Woo-woos, applause, etc.

So cartoon boy plagiarized Magaret Cho (does it make me look gay?) How original.

Merry Christmas!

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:23 AM | Link to this

the International Republican Institute found that 47 percent of Iraqis think the country is heading in a positive direction, compared to 37 percent who said it wasn’t. Fifty-six percent believe that things will improve in six months’ time. That judgment is echoed by military leaders, who are optimistic by a margin of 64 percent to 32 percent and are, by many accounts, downright puzzled by the acrimonious finger-pointing in Washington.

Remember, pinkos, you can’t talk about war until you served in one…

Merry Christmas!

By candide

December 6, 2005 05:28 AM | Link to this

Our health costs are higher than those in any other developed nation — because our system is designed to enrich insurance and drug companies and not to provide health care to everyone. It is a scandal. The Republicans again have fooled the gullible American public.

Harry Truman had the answer in 1947. Sixty years later we still refuse to fact facts. This is what the market economy does for us. If you vote Republican again you deserve to be screwed.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:02 AM | Link to this

Candide: Our health costs are higher than those in any other developed nation What do you think the high tax rates in “any other developed nation” are used to pay for? Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

Look at the front page of today’s litter box liner. It’s Saddam “meat grinder” Hussein, firing up the partisan crowd, enthralling the pinko masses, do you think Christine Amanpour’s panties have dried out yet?

Merry Christmas!

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:21 AM | Link to this

Mr. Fitzgerald’s filing is revealing about the limited nature of his prosecution. Most notably, he more or less concedes that the information in the eight redacted pages is all related to contradictory testimony (hence the charges of perjury and obstruction of justice), not to any deep government secrets. He even notes that none of the redacted material is still classified. So much for the media and partisan speculations that this scandal was about a great national security cover-up.

Oh, that’s too bad, maybe y’all can get Jeb for something when he’s president.

Merry Fitzmas!

By Constructive Feedback

December 6, 2005 06:22 AM | Link to this

If the drug companies are being “enriched” as you claim the we need to pursue another strategy - Tell the seniors that they CANNOT have the benefit of these drugs that have been manufactured by a private company.

The problem is that the GOVERNMENT is attempting to address the mandate of maximizing the healthcare of the masses and this they step into the market in between the consumer and the producer. With the government handing out the check an artificially high price is supported. Absent the government seniors would not be able to afford the drugs BUT the drug companies would have multi-billions of dollars of infrastructure left idle because no one is purchasing their drugs. They would be forced to either lower their prices and make a profit from the volume of their sales or they will set their price with respect to the lower volumes that are now being sold absent the government.

Make no mistake about it though THE GOVERNMENT as the middle man is the problem that is screwing up the market price of the drugs.

By candide

December 6, 2005 06:54 AM | Link to this

Keep up your market economy and the poor will have to sell body parts to the rich who alone will be able to afford transplants. That is what plutocracy will finally lead to.

Cheney and Bush can thus have defibrillators and other devices paid for by the filthy profits they have made over the dead bodies of American soldiers and workers.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 07:04 AM | Link to this

This is one of those issues where you see how far left the Dems have gone. Advocating a national health care system is basically socialism. Doesn’t matter what you put in you will get the same out of it. On a side not, DNC chairman Howard Dean said yesterday that the US cannot win the war in Iraq. Another leading Dem giving up on our troops. Thats good leadership.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 07:23 AM | Link to this

Ricky: What’s even more bizarre, as though it is possible with the pinkos, Dean’s abandoning of the troops comes while they are winning the war. Talk about your self loathing.

Merry Christmas!

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 07:26 AM | Link to this

But the majority of drugs are sold under private health insurance plans. The ‘mass buying power’ of these groups was supposed to help drive prices down. However, as long as premiums keep going up (and a larger and larger percentage of the GNP is spent on medical care 4.5% in 1950…15% in 2002)… there’s a negative incentive for private insurance companies to keep prices down. 15% profit of $500B is a lot more than 15% of $50B.

It’s an artificial economy that doesn’t operate by free market rules (otherwise we’d be getting drugs from Canada).

By finch

December 6, 2005 07:55 AM | Link to this

Hmmm. Mike’s art must be on target. Even his usual critics aren’t blasting it. What are these posts about Iraq and DeLay doing here, anyway?

I know! Obsessive-compulsive complex coupled with ADD! Where’s the Ritalin?

Merry Christmas!

By Bill

December 6, 2005 08:01 AM | Link to this

Some functions of society must be socialized in order to preserve the common good. Historically in America we have recognized that the military and basic education are investments that society must make in its’ citizenry in order to insure an intelligent and informed electorate and to secure protection from aggression for all. America exists as a hybrid state; neither totally capitalized or socialized. Current incentive for healthcare in America is to keep the patient sick as long as possible in order to extract the most $ from insurance/social agencies (this is free market?). Since I have worked in healthcare for over 35 years; I know from whence I speak. Under socialized systems providers are paid the same if they see their patients 1 or 100 times so their incentive is to get the patient well so that they don’t have to keep seeing them. They don’t have the same incentive to schmooze patient that American providers do so they are seen as more callous, etc. in their own societies. Irrefutable fact, though, is that Canadians on average live ~3 years longer than Americans (do they just have better genes or do they maybe have better more intelligently applied healthcare?) This pattern is consistent across countries with Socialized healthcare systems; while in the United States, we enjoy an infant mortality rate just slightly above that of the third world country, Jamaica. Healthcare in America has been twisted and perverted by capital concerns for too long; It should be socialized like the military in order to define the standard of care that our society can afford and provide that care in an efficient, cost effective manner.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 08:17 AM | Link to this

I knew it was just a matter of time before some idiot came out in favor of Hillary Care, Good Morning Bill. Anybody who has served their country knows that government health “care” is an absolute failure. There is no incentive for providers to administer even the most basic standards of practice. I nearly died in the hands of the government, visited the emergency room one night and received aspirin before being kicked to the curb, a few nights later they wheeled me in on a stretcher and x-rays showed 60% fluid in my lungs. Nice three week stay at the Presidio, hooked up to life support.

If you like standing in line for hours before you get sent to the next line, push for Hillary Care. If you want to see an assembly line doctor, or a different doctor every time you visit, push for Hillary Care.

Merry Christmas!

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this

So the answer is to remove the artificial barriers and do away with the AMA, USDA, and other groups that prevent a true market economy (same as NEA, and DOE)? Then we could take advantage of off-shoring our medical care!

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 08:27 AM | Link to this

Or does the Conservative ‘free market’ ideaology only apply to those institutions they don’t profit from?

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this

Look at this 9/11 commission “report card.”-

Pinko Grandstanding

Secular education in Muslim countries: D- Anybody want to explain to me how this would help national security? I thought we weren’t supposed to project our ideals on these foreign countries?

Coalition detention standards: F- Are we being too nice to them? How can the love and comfort of a savage have even the slightest effect on national security?

Airline passenger pre screening: F- Is it still against the law to question more than 2 Muslim men per flight? Are we not assessing enough fines for this violation on our bankrupt airlines?

Unclassified top line intelligence budget: F- With copies distributed to OBL, Al Zarqawi and Al Jeezera?

What a joke.

Merry Christmas!

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

Andy, I don’t know about you, but when I sustained an injury back in 90 while on the ground in Desert Storm, my GOVERNMENT doctor was the best thing that ever happened to me. And have you been to a hospital lately? Even while not under HillaryCare, you have to wait for hours before your seen by a PT or nurse to assess your illness/injury, let alone a doctor. It can’t get much worse than it is now.

By Van

December 6, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

Bill, sounds like you are endorsing a multi-tiered medical health care system.

Let the folks that can not afford insurance be thrown on the government health care, a very efficient group to run health care.

Let the middle class, with benefits go on like before and let the rich have their Beverly Hills doctors, AND, have everyone pay for a plan that must cover everyone and not just those that need it.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Britian has a two layer health care, people that can afford it do not go to the national health care doctors, but see them in their private clinics. I would assume it is the same in Canada.

By the way, why do foreign notables come here for medical treatment? Shouldn’t they be going to Canada or Britain for great medical care?

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this

sick: The doctor who treated your wounds was assigned to this task specifically. All other non essential care goes back to the pool. Thus the long waits for substandard care.

Merry Christmas!

By Bill

December 6, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Mornin’ Andy: If you’re agruing that Socialized medicaine can’t work well because VA sux I would have to disagree. Works very well in Canada, France, GB, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, etc. where longevity and infant mortality all markedly better than American data. I have no problem with a seperate Capitalized system for those who don’t like standing in line or paying the price. Mercenaries exist here even though our military is socialized. High end medical care that society as a whole can’t support but that the individual may be able to; I see no problem with. I do, however, see a big problem with the illegal transfers of kidneys and other organs that are occuring today in the Capitalized medical system existing in India. I do agree though that VA is third world care- I don’t go there myself. Not a product of the viability of Socialized care; a product of how little our society has appreciated the service of its’ veterans and the funding that has been allocated for their welfare.

By gttim

December 6, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

If it cost more money, someone is getting a great benefit. And please don’t say those rich drug companies.

Well, lets see, since the US will become the largest buyer of drugs, but made it law that they could not use their size to leverage lower prices, like all good corporations in a free market would, I think it is the drug companies who will be making the money. HMOs, Walmart, any decent sized group would never pay 100% of suggested wholesale. Either very dumb or a giveaway to the drug companies.

Medical tort reform? Please. Ask any judge how many malpractice lawsuits they have clogging up their courts. They don’t. They are almost impossible to file, and unless they are big money, it is not worth the time involved. They set that hook nice in you!

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question for the blog…Do you think the morass our health care system has become will dissuade our future doctors from becoming doctors? What doctor wants to let an HMO or PPO paper pusher usurp his or her decision making about what is best for the patient as is happening more and more these days? Do think we are looking at a shortage of qualified healthcare professionals in the future?

By Bill

December 6, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Van: there are no free bread and circuses. Any society has only limited funds that it can afford to expend for the health of its’ citizens as well as other essential governmental funtions. Society does what it can. What’s wrong with allowing an individual who can afford care that is unrealistic for society to provide everyone, to buy it for themselves; here or abroad in “Tourist” medical destinations like Cuba, India, Thailand, etc.? Not advocating governmental support of a second tier; that’s redundant, but a parallel Capital system is not.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Sick, the doctors were probably trying to do the world a favor and let delussional andy visit his maker early…unfortunately God did not want to spend anytime with Andy either…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

Sick, you have a good point about discouraging future doctors. The malpractice insurance has become so high, that a lot of doctors don’t want to open their own practices. It is hurting the medical system as a whole. That is the point of malpractice reform. There should be a limit to what an individual can sue for. I am not saying they shouldn’t be well compensated for a doctors mistake, they should. But $50-100 million seems a bit ridiculous to me. There should be a formula based on future earnings and things such as that that they could work out to make it fair and to keep malpractice insurance reasonable.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

I agree with those who have stated that administrative expense is one of the prime factors leading to increased medical costs. Third-party payers are not the most efficient method of containing costs as there exists a moral hazard between their enrollees and their costs.

However, a singly-payer system is the absolute worst way to provide healthcare. Quality is sacrificed for equality - so everyone gets horrible healthcare. Wait times for lithotripsy (kidney stone treatment) in Canada exceed 14 months; cancer treatment in Britain is nearly pre-historic; the German system is so driven by special interests that spa treatments are part of the “free” healthcare system.

Profit margins drive innovation - it is true in every sector of the economy, and it remains true in the healthcare industry. Profits are also why so many bright, intelligent people choose to become doctors. They get to help people, sure, but they are handsomely, and deservedly, rewarded for their services. If you were to arbitrarily (and unconstitutionally) remove the profit margin from healthcare, pharmaceutical and medical technology innovation would plummet precipitously.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy, you make excellent points. The single payer system has no efficient. The wait lines for surgeries and treatment are incredibly long. Research and innovation is sacrificed. That is not the way to go in my opinion. Mitt Romney from Mass has a pretty good plan based on income level and the amount that person has to pay into the system to receive health care. I don’t know if it will work on a national scale but it deserves some thought.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I agree with you to a point. When a doctor gets sued for malpractice, the Plaintiff will get a monetary award based on future lost wages, cost of care, etc. These are the “actual damages” a jury can award. What gets ridiculous is the punitive damages, those damages awarded to punish the doctor or healthcare facility. I believe there should be a cap on punitive damages but not done away with altogether. Punitive damages should never exceed $1 million and should be paid for directly by the doctor’s malpractice insurance carrier. I think the actual damages should be paid by the doctor himself/herself. A reminder of what their negligence accomplished.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

Cheney and Bush can thus have defibrillators and other devices paid for by the filthy profits they have made over the dead bodies of American soldiers and workers. - candide

Candide, your hyperbolic histrionics would be hilarious if they weren’t so utterly absurd. As a standard bearer in the Angry Left, you should be forewarned that your, “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!” attitude is ultimately self-destructive. Those who call for the death of soldiers (just for the political ends of defeating Bush), will NEVER gain traction with anything but the extreme left fringe.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I’m not familiar with Romney’s plan. I’m a strong advocate of a market shift from HMOs and PPOs provided through the labor market to individuals being more responsible for their own healthcare decisions via Healthcare Savings Accounts.

Also, I believe in increasing tax deductions for charitable donations to hospitals for the purposes of charity care of the indigent - but that’s another story altogether…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy, Romney’s plan basically has people pay in a certain amount based on their income level, with the state picking up the rest. They are then placed on the state health plan, the same as state workers. Like I said, make work in Mass but not national. However, it is nice to see some new ideas.

By Voice of Reason

December 6, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

Andy, Andy Andy - Remember, pinkos, you can’t talk about war until you served in one…

You should reserve that advice your Bush and Cheney too!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

VoR, the arguement that you can’t talk about war if you haven’t served is ridiculous, like most things Andy, candide, malachi, and those types post.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I’ll have to look at it more, but it still sounds like a bureaucrat is making healthcare decisions for an individual instead of each individual making those decisions for him or herself.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Ricky: Sweetheart, you may want to consult the dictionary for the word sarcasm. At one time a poster on this board said it was a sign of intelligence. As far as “ridiculous,” I’d like to have you show me one thing that I have posted that is “ridiculous.” Or are you confusing this with inability to deal with the truth?

Merry Christmas!

By Bill

December 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Ricky you’ve been listening to too many AMA bulletins. Doctor’s don’t pay the increased malpractice premiums; you do! The cost is tallied into fees you are charged as are the costs of electricity, H2O, rent, scrubs, kleenex, etc. Medicine is afterall a capitalized business with legions of well paid accountants and lobbyists. This is just more AMA distortional propoganda from people who are trying to protect their userous profit structure. If Doctors practice good medicine, they won’t lose malpractice suits so these suits won’t be filed, consequently. Currently, they practice hurried, under-staffed medical care provision based on the fact that the more patients they see in any given time frame and the least amount of staff they use to do so, the more money they make. That is why there is a plethora of malpractice suits; because Doctors are practicing bad but profitable medicine. Irregardless, Doctors pass these fees along to the consumer in the form of higher fees; they don’t pay them themselves. Malpractice reform is a cash cow for the insurance industry, not the Doctors. By the way, all available slots are filled 10 deep in American and International medical schools. Since we are turning away hundreds of 4.0 graduates from admission to medical schools, I don’t think there has been any lessening of individuals wanting to make a career out of medicine. We artificially limit the number of physicians that we train in order to support an overly favorable supply/demand cycle for Doctors.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Remember, pinkos, you can’t talk about war until you served in one… - Andy

Andy, I haven’t served, but I beat all hell out of the Nazis in “Medal of Honor” on Xbox. Is that good enough?

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy, I am a proponent of the individual making the decision also. I believe the individual is almost always better making the decision for themselves than having the government make it for them. However, if talking about a system for having EVERYONE insured, I don’t know that you can do that. Regardless, the health care system in America needs to be reformed.

By sct

December 6, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Another big Bush lie.

The prescription drug benefit barely passed, in fact Republican leaders changed the rules of the House to give them enough time to threaten Republican members who were against it.

This bill had no chance in hell of passing had the true cost of this benefit been known. Bush LIED about the true cost. His administration knew that the cost would be 600B rather than the 400B price they sold to congress.

And no one has explained why this plan doesn’t allow for price negotiations. Can anyone answer that?

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I LOVE THAT game Big Daddy!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

sct, talking to you is a waste of time because you are so anti Bush. You refuse to admit this administration has done anything good. At least some of us on here(BigDaddy, Sick, etc) can have a discussion where we can admit that our side has made mistakes. I know you love the Bush lied tactic since that has become the Dem talking point, but it isn’t going to work. His approval numbers are starting to rise again.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

sct: A pinko who is against a government benefit program, let me duly record this admission.

Big Daddy: Is the second person to weigh in against the pinko idea that you can’t talk about running a war if you haven’t served in one. Noted.

Keep em coming, guys!

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

Andy, what was that definition of “sarcasm” again?

By sct

December 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Just what I thought, Ricky and Andy, no answers. Again, why the lies about the cost and why no negotiations?

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

Big Daddy removed from the no war experience no war talk list.

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

sct, the “Bush Lied” trope is so tired… The cost projections for the prescription drug benefit were based on straight-line GAO projections, just as all government-spending programs are. The problem is, GAO projections don’t take demographic and economic changes into account, and hence are horridly inaccurate.

I do agree with you that this drug benefit is proving to be a horrible boondoggle and another domestic snafu for the president. Acutally, on the domestic front, he’s only gotten one thing halfway right - his tax cuts. I say halfway because he should have expended more political capital to push through his original, more aggressive tax cut plan, and also he should have pushed to make them permenant.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

believe in increasing tax deductions for charitable donations to hospitals for the purposes of charity care of the indigent

An incentive to care? The indigent have no real value to society… so directly supporting them via taxes is bad!? Get the big hearted suckers to pay for it! They get back 30% of their ‘investment’ in moral obligation… or a 50% discount for the folks buying PR and advertising (Ronald McDonald House?). The compassionate conservative!! It’s not an ideaology of caring… it’s purely based on greed. As a conservative… you would support that because ultimately your taxes are reduced!

So where does the provision of health care rest? Is it purely a commodity or is it a ‘right’? What does ‘promote the general Welfare’ mean (not law…but it is the basis for our belief in the need for government)? Where is the line?

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

Wrong BigDaddy! Tax cuts DO work, but only if accompanying spending cuts leverage the gains. We haven’t seen this yet, thus our Asian brothers keep loaning us money. Good God I don’t want to think about the “benefits” of these cuts if they become permanent with no significant reduction in spending.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

sickoftheneocons, I agree to a point, spending under this administration is shameful - again I fault Bush for lack of leadership on this issue. As I stated, I have major problems with the Bush adminstration’s handling of the domestic front.

But I am not wrong on the tax cut issue. Which is more important - tax rates or tax revenues? Anyone who has ever sat through even a cursory course on economics will tell you that revenues are more important. So, what has been the net effect on tax revenues as a result of the tax cut? Well, counter-intuitively, tax revenues have risen as a result of economic gains spurred on by the tax cuts. Larger tax cuts would have led to even better economic gains than what we have now.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

sct: It is an entitlement program that reduces the high costs that our senior citizens pay for drugs and other necessities. I am unable to look a gift horse in the mouth on this one. I have seen what effect these costs have on the elderly especially those with fixed incomes.

Bottom line, the griping from cartoon boy and the other pinkos is merely to score cheap political points against Bush, as usual.

Merry Christmas!

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Our economy is driven by spending, not production. It doesn’t matter where the money comes from that is being spent (i.e. tax refunds, federal deficit, credit card debt, foreign investment)… just so long as there is money to spend.

Our ‘investments’ are just scams for creating ‘value’ in order to have more money to spend (i.e. housing bubble… with fully leveraged ‘equity’ … a stock market where there is no real dividends paid to share holders … the value is in finding someone to pay more for the stock you hold).

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

I’m not disagreeing with you on that point BigDaddy. Tax revenues, whether they come from new income taxes from gains in employment, sales taxes, etc. (all gaining ground because of the tax cuts) work. What I’m saying is that the gains are not good enough when coupled with the spending. I don’t think ANY plan will work when spending is the way it is. There simple isn’t a big enough revenue stream, those created from tax cuts or otherwise, to counter the atrocious spending habits of this administration.

By sct

December 6, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

Imagine that Andy! Trying to score cheap political points. I sure am glad that never happens in this blog.

How can you increase spending by 600B over 10 years and not increase revenue? In fact we are cutting taxes and have increased spending even as the expense of this plan is added to the books.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

sickoftheneocons, I agree. Who do we turn to when the erstwhile party of fiscal responsibility begins spending like drunken democrats on a bender? Every time I read a report about increased spending, I want to claw my eyes out…

By Dubya

December 6, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Achtung, all you Republiscum Neo-Con Bushvolk! Are you happy little Nazis this morning? Time to emerge from your individual little Fuhrer Bunkers. Go forth and spread your anger, personal failures, self-loathing, bitterness, jealousy, hatred and more. Be happy in your work! All in the name of “Democracy, Freedom, Victory.” How many American troops will you murder this day??

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

sct: So you and the other pinkos will get behind social security and tax reform to help us realize the trillions in potential savings?

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

GLW, from a macro-economic perspective, you have a point, as any economic system is cyclical in nature. But, speaking micro, it does matter where the spending is coming from - private sector spending is simply more efficient, and hence more beneficial to individuals than government spending.

By buff

December 6, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

I read the Hildebeast’s healthcare plan; what a disaster.

If socialized medicine is so great, why do Canadians come here for healthcare? If you need angioplasty they give you pills and put you on a three month waiting list. Check out Canada’s tax burdens on the public

So, lefties, list a number of things that the government does better than private industry. We do have the finest health industry in the world.

Does it have problems, ABSOLUTELY, big time

As far as the poor: they should work NOT to be poor, and not have children until they can afford them

Liberalsim is a mental condition

By buff

December 6, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

Are you anti-American leftists proud of your Fearless Leader? How do you think our troops feel when they hear this. As I said yesterday, just send a contribution to Al Qaeda

Dean Questions Commitment to Iraq Strategy WASHINGTON — Democratic Chairman Howard Dean on Monday likened the war in Iraq to Vietnam and said, “The idea that the United States is going to win the war in Iraq is just plain wrong,” comments that drew immediate fire from Republicans.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

This is what the pinkos didn’t want us to remove from power-

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A woman testified Tuesday from behind a screen - her voice disguised but her weeping still apparent - that she was assaulted and tortured with beatings and electric shocks by Saddam Hussein’s agents in the trial of the former president and seven lieutenants.

She said one of her relatives wanted to give birth in jail. “The baby was out. When some women tried to help her, the guards prevented them,” and the baby died, she said.

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

So where does the provision of health care rest? Is it purely a commodity or is it a ‘right’? What does ‘promote the general Welfare’ mean (not law…but it is the basis for our belief in the need for government)? Where is the line? - GLW

GLW, where do I begin? Let’s start with your venomous retort against tax incentives for charitable donations. I guess you skipped the economics class where everyone learned that you get more of the behavior you encourage. What’s more important in this case - motivations or results? If you were indigent and required a heart bypass, would you much care what the motivations were for those who provided the funding for that healthcare?

As to the “healthcare” is a right stance taken by liberals - look, the Welfare clause has been the single most abused clause in the entire Constitution. It was never intended to be a catchall for progressive programs. “Healthcare as a right” subsumes societal dominion over an individual, and hence is contrary to the founding beliefs of individual rights in life, liberty and property.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

I’m a big believer in the National Flat Tax. With it, we can get rid of the IRS (projected budget of 11.6 billion for FY2006 according to the IRS Oversight Board) then we just kill DOE (Education, not Energy)(projected budget of 56 billion for FY2006 according to Pres. Bush’s budget) and kill the prescription drug program (est. 60 billion in cost per year) what’s that $127.6 billion a year saved?

By sct

December 6, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Andy, If President McCain were to put forth plans that dealt with taxes and Social Security, I would be open to them.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

sickoftheneocons, I’m with you. Tax simplification via either the Flat Tax or a National Retail Sales TAx would be a tremendous boost to this country. Bush’s commission on tax reform is yet another reason to grimace at his domestic accomplishments.

By Porky

December 6, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

Bill: “Irregardless, Doctors pass these fees along to the consumer in the form of higher fees; they don’t pay them themselves. Malpractice reform is a cash cow for the insurance industry, not the Doctors.”

The costs are passed on nonetheless, and malpractice reform would reduce those costs. But the only way to reduce healthcare costs is to remove the pseudo-capaitalist conditions & quasi-socialist rules that govern. In other words, a cash-for-services system directly between patients & doctors, allowing true market forces to function, bypassing both the government & insurance companies. Catastrophic insurance can be used as a supplemental. Charity can cover those who cannot afford. The coverage of basic services not only increases costs, but also unnecessary usage of infrastructure.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

sct, I don’t think that RINO McCain has much of a chance of securing the nomination. The media love him, but he does nothing for the Republican base. Or libertarians like me, for that matter.

I’m going on the carpet now - our next president will be a Republican and he will be a governor. He will be a defense hawk and a fiscal, social and judicial conservative. Unless I’m wrong about the “he” and Condi gets elected…

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Porky, you are dead-on right. I applaud your abilities to apply reason and fact to our healthcare system.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

Was Condi a governor?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

oops, I guess I missed that part too… My bad…

By sct

December 6, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy, independents will decide the next election, if Republicans nominate someone as conservative as you say I think a Democrat will win.

By buff

December 6, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy, who does the GOP have that fills your list?

I like George Allen, but the last time a Senator was elected Prez was 1960

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this

Actually, I’m just shooting holes in the ‘rationale’ and the motivations. I’m not advocating a ‘conservative’ or ‘liberal’ ideaology. I would prefer a moral approach, but realize that our rules and laws are create to protect ourselves from ourselves. Republican, Democratic, Socialist or Libertarian… the motivations are all the same. “What’s in it for me?”

Since our economy is driven by greed and spending… it’s a question how to harness that to the greatest benefit of everyone (morally that should include everyone in the world… but we are interested in protecting US interests and our playing field).

We can spend $500B on health care and allow the beneficiaries of that largess to turn around and spend it on goods and services that we benefit from… or we can ‘save’ $250B and spend it on goods and services directly (How does the multiplier work? The more times the money exchanges hands the greater the economic benefit? Trickle down economics?).

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

The ‘fight’ is over who has control of who gets the biggest cut of the pie.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

sct, I disagree, while independents might be a swing in the next presidential election cycle, that only bodes well for the Republicans, provided they nominate a fiscal conservative. The American people, as a whole, are getting a bit weary of the price tag that accompanies “compassionate conservatism,” as is the Republican base. Old-school style conservatives will reel the wayward neocon element back in, so we’ll see an actual conservative.

Now, the Democrats will be highly mobilized - they will have been out of the White House for 20 of the past 28 years. The problem is, the part of the party that is mobilized is the Angry Left. Their message, as evidenced by their fearful leader, Howard Dean, is one of defeatism - a message of what American canNOT do - not a message of hope. Hence, a moderate Democrat will have a hard time navigating the nomination process.

As for names - keep an eye on Iowa governor Tom Vilsack.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

sct, Dems won’t win if the nominate Hillary. Can you imagine how crazy people will go if she is nominated? I really think she is unelectable. I think the Republicans will nominate someone outside the beltway like Mitt Romney or Mike Hutchinson. That has proven to be the best way to win recently. Cater, Regan, Clinton, and Bush all won after being governors.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

SO Andy can we line up Dumsfield and Dubya’s dady to be on trial with Sadaam since they provided him with weapons to use against Iran…which he did, and then he turned them on his on people.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

buff, you’re right. Senators don’t get elected President. Why? Because senators deliberate… a lot. They talk… a lot. And usually they have very little to say. Just look at the Scourge of Cambodia, John Kerry. Good God, could that man talk - but did he ever actually say anything? (Just as an aside - it’s funny that his loquaciousness was billed by his handlers as being a sign of intelligence - but it turns out his grades at Yale were actually worse than Bush’s - of course he didn’t release those academic records until after the election…) Anyway, it ain’t called the “world’s greatest deliberative body” for nothing.

This lies in direct opposition to the role of the executive branch, which is to act. The chief executive is required to make decisions, oftentimes quickly. Senators have been conditioned away from this capability.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

gadem, are you serious with that post? We have provided many nations with weapons to fight our mutual enemies. Do you really want to see Bush the senior on trial with Saddam? Maybe Ramsey Clarke will represent him, oh wait he only represents his favorite dictator of the moment.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

GLW - my point was it doesn’t matter what the motivations are in this matter, as long as the results are achieved. Perhaps that sounds Macchiavellian, but still - does an indigent receiver of cancer treatment care that the reason she received treatment for breast cancer is because someone sought to minimize their tax liability? I think she and her family will be most happy that she was treated…

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

gadem: I look at it this way; I don’t blame God for the ignorant statements you make just because he gave you half of a brain.

By sct

December 6, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

Independents started to drift away from Bush when the religious right started to push their weight around. The last 2 elections have been very close, if Republicans nominate someone that is closely identified with the rr they will have problems with independents and Libertarians and could give the Democrats the edge they need to win the election.

By Dr Jim

December 6, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

That argument of putting US government officials on trial for providing weapons that someone else used is almost as stupid as the argument that guns kill and the manufacturers is liable for their misuse.

By Bill

December 6, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

same old people making the same stupid arguments. IT’S A CARTOON PEOPLE! You people need to get a life.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

This is how the Republicans will win the next election. They will nominate a more traditional fiscal conservative Republican that will reign in the ridiculous spending that is going on right now, all though the spending is slowing down and revenue is at an all time high. Most Americans agree more with Republicans on social issues as a whole. The candidate will talk about fiscal responsibility and securing our borders.

By buff

December 6, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

BigDaddy. you are right about the 100 senators. Kerry is a babbling moron. And, can you imagine the ketchup queen as the First Lady?

WE like to elect Southerners for Prez. I wonder is Lindsay Graham would have a chance?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

sct, I’m not sure where the independents are right now. As for Libertarians - it is nearly anathema to vote for Democrats - 99 times out of 100, they’ll vote for a Republican over a Democrat when a Libertarian is not on the dance card.

Anyway, this is all theoretical at this point - we won’t know anything until we get a clearer picture of who the actual players will be.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Andy, I have half a brain due to a stroke, so I can understand why they gave you aspirin and kicked you to the door at the hospital. You probably called them pinkos. Anyway, as far as health care costs go, I spent three months in the hospital and the care there was excellent. They saved my life. The problem was the bills were enormous due to rising health care costs. I believe letting the government run health care would be a disaster but there has to be a way to lower health care costs.

By Phil

December 6, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

Ohh, I see we have little ANDY ejaculating again. This intellectual insect cannot speak about any substantive subject, yet yaps away. Spent an entire short lifetime watching tough guy movies and identifying. Playing video games. Like so many Repubs on this site, he’s another false, self-created military veteran. A heroic one at that. Only thing this ridiculous, absurd clown would know about the Presidio is what he gathered from a Duvall movie. “Life support”?? Only life support this rodent knows is booze and hate. Pitiful. Just pitiful.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

gadem, you are a case in point of why it is so great to live in America. I love freedom of speech - it makes it so much easier to spot the idiots…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Phil, why do you assume people who identify themselves as Reps and say they are veterans are lying? Should we assume you are lying? You are adding nothing to the conversation. You should igonre the ignorant rantings of people like Andy, Midori, and Malachi.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

getalife: So you advocate euthanasia as a way for you to get better health care for yourself?

Poor little Phil: You just hate hearing the other sides arguments don’t you? They always make you look weak and stupid. All you can offer in your own defense is to fantasize that you are better than those who slap you around. Get back under your bed, little pinko.

Merry Christmas!

By Midori

December 6, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

Ricky — how dare you call anyone “ignorant”.

Your simpleton posts shriek of ignorance, half truths and b******.

Pot calling the kettle black?

I’ve posted the truth to several of your deluded outbursts, showing you wrong and you STILL persist in posting your looney lying crap.

Rants indeed.

You’re my very own Exhibit A, B, C AND D.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

Ricky: Look, I know you are brain damaged and, with that in mind, I respect your opinions. But you are seriously pushing your slack jawed, beady eyed, mouth breathing luck. Don’t undermine my argument just because you are to ignorant to understand it. You are what’s wrong with America, you would be better off with a closed mouth letting the competent people run the show.

Merry Christmas!

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Wow, both sides out with guns-a-blazing. Since healthcare reform is about as interesting as tax code to me, I think I’ll just continue to read and sit this one out….nice comic though!

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

I think the Republican strength in the upcoming presidential election lies with George W. Bush. It all depends on what kind of image he has going into that election. Not so long ago, almost ALL Republicans stood solidly with the Pres on his initiatives. The Republican party is fracturing and are distancing themselves from the President. Tney are no longer lining right up behind him. It all depends on whether Bush can pull himself out of the quamire of the polls and again shine like he did four years ago. If not, then I think your going to see at least two handfuls of Republican candidates with a platform of this is what I’m going to do different (better) than G.W.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

Midori, here is the difference between you and I. I willing admit that this administration has made several mistakes along the way. They have done things that I as a conservative completely disagree with. You on the other hand refuse to admit that this administration has done anything good. You post under several different names and you post articles from sites that are anti-military and anti-conservative and pass them off as fact. I will be more than happy to debate you on any of the issues of the day.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

Andy, just because I disagree with you doesn’t make me brain dead. You hurt the right side of the political spectrum because you refuse to admit that we have made mistakes. You are just as bad as midori.

By buff

December 6, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

Sick, your 12:16 post, I think you are right about the GOP, but, look at the Democratic Party; talk about fractured. They have several different solutions on Iraq. They are in a bind on that one.

Bush needs to use that bully pulpit. Clinton was a master at using the media, and GWB should take a page from his book

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Buff. The Democrats have no unity period other than when they gripe about anything and everything Bush.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

buff, sickoftheneocons, ya’ll are right. The Democratic party is driven by far-left ideaologues whose sole unifying trait is an undying hatred for deposing their sainted and presdestined Al Gore. What will the Angry Left do when GWB is no longer there? On whom will they vent their spleen? The bile of the Angry Left is not a feature that is likely to attract any votes - these are people that would not vote for a Republican under any circumstances anyway, so that does not represent a net loss to a Republican hopeful.

By heavenly

December 6, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

just peeking my head into the door to see what the discussion is about. as usual, the rightwingbats with no lives are flooding the message board with their asinine nonsense and hostility, turning this blog into a completely useless forum. andy, don’t chastize people for not wanting to hear your side of an argument when you lead with calling them an idiot or half-brained. it’s impossible for anyone here to have an intelligent discussion with you about serious issues because you exude so little class. you need to learn how to interact with people. maybe getting out of your mom’s basement and making a few friends would help you learn something about civil discourse and conversation. see you guys later.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

Ricky: Who crowned you with the wisdom to be the final say on all political matters? I happen to believe, excuse me, I know that the democrat strategy is to make everything into a “problem,” whether it is or not, and then blame Bush for it. You, by attacking me, are lending credibility to this nonsense.

If you disagree with me, put together an argument and state it for consideration. Don’t make little immature childish remarks like you are some self appointed referee.

Merry Christmas!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

heavenly, your post is no better than Andy

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

heavenly: The reason you can’t have civil discourse with me is because your ideas are so weak and perverted. I am here to ruin your anti American masturbation festival. Seeing the fact that you can only hit me with a cheap pinko hit and run post let’s me know I am having a tremendous success. Thanks.

Merry Christmas!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Andy, I have made several agruments on this page. I am not appointing myself a refree of any kind. I don’t agree with people on either side you think that their side is always right no matter what and that is what I get from reading your posts.

By A Libertarian

December 6, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy, take a look at the Libertarian Party website. (www.lp.org) There is nothing but contempt for the Bush administration. It may be true that Libertarians would rather see a republican president rather than a Democrat 9 times out of 10, however, the critisim of Bush is just as loud from Libertarians as it is from Democrats. Most Libertarians see Bush as a total failure. Its time for Libertarians to start voting for Libertarians.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

Andy, you ask Ricky to put together an argument against you and state it for consideration. How can you put together an argument against “Pinkos pinkos pinkos, I hate pinkos.”?

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Ricky: Watch me ignore sickoftheneocons. See it is easy. His nickname is no different than sickofthepinkos. Nobody is asking nor do we need your help. Your stifling the little holier than thou comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Merry Christmas!

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

Andy, you are a prime example of the reason for my nick…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Andy, if you want to debate the issues, bring them on. I am not making holier than thou statements. I am simply pointing out that the attitude of my side is never wrong doesn’t help the political discourse in America.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

A Libertarian, I realize the LP is stronly opposed to the Bush administration. And I vote an LP ticket myself, as I have been a memeber of the LP for over six years. But when there is no LP option, which is your default? So, let me clarify my statement - when there is no LP option, 99 libertarians out of 100 will vote Republican.

If you scroll back over my posts, you’ll see that I’ve pointed out many of the failures of the Bush administration. The problem I have with the LP is their weak stance on defense - and that is why I have ceased donating to the LP.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

Ricky: Nobody appointed your smug little mouth to be the spokeperson for the Conservatives. Offer your opinion, that is fine. Don’t speak for the rest of the world.

Sick, you are the prime example of why I call you a pinko…

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

Andy, this is for you

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

Something that made my stomach turn

Now he wants the little girl kept alive so that he will not be charged with murder…someone needs to beat his a-s-s with a baseball bat!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

That is horrible gadem, you are right. It is sad that stuff like that happens to innocent children

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

getalife: No, that is from me. I knew giving a child like you a toy to play with would keep you quite. How long has it been since you posted?

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Very sick and very sad.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

gadem,

Just think, if we could just get socialized medicine that little girl could have died waiting in line for a ventilator.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

I would like to know what would it take for a strong 3rd party to come to the forefront to make a change. In my opinion, the two party system isn’t working…choosing the lesser of the two evils still leaves you with the devil. I think part of the problem is that politicians get away with way too much stuff…in most cases they are not held accountable.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

I know, I could’nt resist. Finally could get out of bed.

Merry Holiday!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

gadem, you will need massive campaign reform in order to have a serious third party

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

gadem, it will be very difficult, particularly as long as elected officials are allowed to redraw their districts to ensure incumbency.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

RW a death is a death…whether it is now or later she still would have died…would it made you feel better if she died waiting on a ventilator, or died while she was on a ventilator?

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

gadem,

Just think, if we could just get socialized medicine that little girl could have died waiting in line for a ventilator

….or cAndy could just run up there and gun her down - should be a target even he could hit…

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Here is the result of a srtong third party candidate

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

The simple math (spending based economics)…

Scenario 1: Indigent patient receives $50K in services Government pays $20K Hospital ‘writes off’ $30K (by claiming $15K in tax deductions and raising the cost for others by $15K… so insurance costs go up). Net result… Government (taxes) pay $35K and Insurance/Others pay $15K.

Scenario 2: Indigent patient receives $50K in services Charitable donations pay $20K Hospital ‘writes off’ $30K ($15K tax deduc and $15K higher costs to others) Net result… Government (taxes) pay $22K, Charity pays $13K and Insurance/Others pay $15K.

So my taxes go down by my share of $13K (so there is 13K more to spend)… but the guy giving to charity has $13K less to spend and the Government has $13K less to spend… so the economy losses $13K of spending? Plus… nothing has been done to reduce the cost of health care.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

geezus: Have you checked with Cynthia Tucker about the little girl yet? You’d better be careful, you could be speaking against the pinko position on this. Tucker may want the girl dead so she can’t testify against the lovely little murderer. Check her columns.

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

RW, those Vice Preidents make Cheney look good.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Andy,

I haven’t read back yet, but “geezur” must really be off his game today.

Late last night I gave an answer to the Cynthia Tucker question. They say all submissions must be approved by AJC staff for publication. As of now they have approved zero submissions. I guess she doesn’t have much grasp on the “discussion forum” idea.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

GLW, it’s real easy to concoct an argument when you invent figures based purely on supposition. Please go back up and read my post about healthcare cost reduction. It does not start with charity care. Charity care is the care of last resort in a revamped US healthcare delivery system.

By strengthening HSA’s, adminstrative costs would be reduced, people would make their own decisions regarding healthcare (and would act economically rationally), with the net effect of reduction of overall healthcare costs. (As well as better introduction of competitive pressures in the healthcare market by elimination of CON requirements).

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Andy, you used to annoy me…now I find you more comical than anything. I think you are an antagonist….nothing more nothing less. No person with half a brain as you put it could believe half the crap you spew…but then again we have new age Nazis walking around talking about the impending race war…

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

RW: They’ve spent the better part of this morning trying to edit me. I hung in there. I think they’ve given up.

That is a trip that they would edit an “opinion” forum. I can’t participate in it because the questions make me drowsy.

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

RW-(the original),

the OpinionTalk section has grown increasingly lame, as they update the page maybe once per day, and only after “approval”. I used to post regularly there, but after having some well-thought out submissions go un-posted, I’ve tired of dealing with the excreable thing.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

gadem: So what has made you so hysterical? It makes it so much easier to reply or deny if I knew what you were shrieking about.

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Andy,

Her question of the day: Is the Bush administration trustworthy?

I submitted this:

Patient and steady with all he must bear, Ready to meet every challenge with care, Easy in manner, yet solid as steel, Strong in his faith, refreshingly real. Isn’t afraid to propose what is bold, Doesn’t conform to the usual mould, Eyes that have foresight, for hindsight won’t do, Never backs down when he sees what is true, Tells it all straight, and means it all too. Going forward and knowing he’s right, Even when doubted for why he would fight, Over and over he makes his case clear, Reaching to touch the ones who won’t hear. Growing in strength he won’t be unnerved, Ever assuring he’ll stand by his word. Wanting the world to join his firm stand, Bracing for war, but praying for peace, Using his power so evil will cease, So much a leader and worthy of trust, Here stands a man who will do what he must.

The staff is still probably trying to figure out why I bolded the first letter of each line. (Hey Cynthia, read down the line)

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Or maybe it compressed it like that.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

You missed the point…

Our economy is based on spending, not on the conservative concept of saving and investing (this has nothing to do with knocking charities).

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

Awwhh. That was beautiful RW, and people say conservatives have no heart…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

GLW, the conservative concept of saving and investing leads to more spending. They are not independent of each other.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

RW: My guess is they won’t try to figure anything out except how to hit delete.

That is nothing compared to the litter box liner for today-

Is Iraq deceit part of Bush pattern?

So it’s a foregone conclusion to the pinkos that Bush Lied!

Merry Christmas!

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

RW do you admire a leader more when he can admit mistakes have been made, or one that stays the course? My ideal leader is one that can admit when a mistake was made…regardless of what the mistake was…it does not show weakness to admit a mistake, it does the exact opposite, it shows courage and the ability to adapt to a changing situation.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

RW, did you get that from the Pakistan school book on Bush? Remember when I asked about the Bush meeting with his advisors on Saturday? I think it was about Rice’s trip to Europe. A reporter asked Bush about the secret interrogations overseas and Bush was chocked up before he could give the same answer Rice is giving. It sounds like they are lying. Go figure.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

GLW,

I noticed earlier today you mentioned the NEA as a government agency we should keep. You did the same thing the other day.

Just out of curiosity, for what possible reason do we need that government agency?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

GLW, every economy is based on spending. But where do you think “saved” dollars and “invested” dollars go? Under a matress? Buried in trash bags in the backyard? No, money saved in banks is available for lending to people or companies for the purpose of spending. Money invested into companies is money used by those companies for capital expenditures - more spending. I still don’t see what your point is…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

gadem, the administration has admitted to making mistakes in Iraq. What you and most of the left want is for Bush to get in front of the nation and say he made it all up. That is not true, so it will not happen, but you will continue to say he is lying until he leaves office.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

RW: I think there’s a full moon out. I’ve spent most of the morning defending the pinko thing, getting called a wingnut and a nazi the whole time. I still don’t know why pinko bothers them so much. I’ve grown to like being called a wingnut, it is kind of cute and adorable. I’m going to name my next pet “wingnut.”

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Look who is on the panel for the Katrina aftermath, your favorite, Cynthia McKinney. BTW, they told FEMA workers to wear clothes without FEMA on them due to threats to the workers. It seems they are targets in New Orleans like we are targets in Iraq.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

gadem,

President Bush gives quite a few speeches, you should try listening or reading them once in awhile.

getalife,

You’re not as slow as you are trying to make us believe. Very good.

sickof…,

See the link above, it’s cut and paste. I quite possibly still have no heart.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

getalife, wow American soldiers are targets in a war we are involved in? Who would have thunk it.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

In the last two days, Howard Dean has said we can’t win the war in Iraq and John Kerry has accussed US forces of terrorizing Iraqi’s. And the Dems wonder why they have a leadership problem.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

No Ricky, I was just wondering because now when someone changes position on something, they are called flip floppers, which I think is assanine. I fault politicians for not standing up for what they believe is the right thing to do. Politicians are swayed too much by staying out of the negative light of the media. No one wants to be a breaking news story or a front page link.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

Andy,

The full moon isn’t until the 15th, they are probably just getting ready for their “Twas the night before Pearl Harbor” parties.

What I find funny is they always tell you the word “pinko” is outdated and meaningless to them, but it sure seems to drive them crazy.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

RW, I saw it on BBC and you know I read and listen to the rhetoric. Ricky, you can see the comparisons in New Orleans and Iraq. Need I say more?

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

gadem, there is a difference between flip flopping and admitting you made a mistake on something. I agree that the charge of flip flopping is overblown these days. That is because politics has turned into a game of gotcha. Now when Dick Durbin changes his position on abortion from pro-life to pro-choice, that seems a little fishy to me. That sounds like political expedience, not conviction. But that is just my opinion. Part of the problem with politics today is that our elected representatives don’t stand on principle. There are very few that do anymore.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

Where is the capital coming from? It’s not from ‘real’ dollars in savings accounts. The average person has $100 in savings and $30K in credit card debt.

The capital is coming from leveraged ‘value’ of homes and businesses.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

getalife, all levels of government are to blame for Katrina’s aftermath. The only reason Blacno released those documents is because she is trying to deflect blame from herself. If she knew she did everything possible, she would just let it go and let history prove her right. Instead she is trying to change perception that she is incompetent

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Howard Dean-

AAAAAAEEEEYYYYGGGGHHHHEEEEEAAAAA

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Ricky, I am in Louisiana and the local news is reporting alot of finger pointing and nothing getting done because there is no money. RW, I do have a mush mind due to a stroke and I am an opiate warrior.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Ricky, I tend to agree with Howard Dean on some levels. I think that we can all agree that this is not a conventional war. The enemy is a headless entity, driven by a deep seeded belief that they are carrying out the will of Allah. If you are fighting an enemy that does not use conventional methods, when do you know that you win?

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

So we are not going to have a depression after all?

Economy Rebounding From Gulf Coast Storms. Orders to U.S. factories posted a solid increase in October while - worker productivity jumped by the largest amount in two years, the government reported Tuesday. It was the latest evidence that the economy is rebounding from the Gulf Coast hurricanes and a spike in energy prices, leading analysts to predict the economy will turn in a solid performance in coming months.

Well, darn.

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

getalife,

There is a woman on C-Span2 right now saying the government is running concentration camps in Louisiana.

Any idea what she is talking about?

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

gadem, this is how we will know when we have won. Iraq will be a constitutional democracy. It won’t be just like ours but there will be elections. We have already starting winning over there. Lebannon kicked the Syrians out, Egypt has demanded elections, and our old buddy Qadaffi voluntarily gave up his WMD program. Once we stand up Iraqi’s army and we leave, the Iraqi’s will get rid of the terrorists. The Kurds don’t like them and the Shiite’s don’t either. I firmly beleive we will win the war. And 10 years down the road we will be able to look back and be proud of what our country accomplished over there.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

the economy is rebounding from the Gulf Coast hurricanes

The economy is recovering because of the Gulf Coast hurricanes. Lots of government and insurance spending.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Canadian “health” care-

Canada considers more heroin injection sites

It’s free, too!

Merry Christmas!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

The economy is in very good shape right now. It is growing at about 3.2% per month and unemployment is at 5%, which is what Clinton called full employment. Not to shabby after all the obstacles in the last few years.

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Ricky, We are not a constitutional democracy, we are a federal republic with heavy democratic tendencies.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

RW, No. Although I did see Gingrey talking about something he saw on Comedy Central on CSpan.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

GLW in ATL: So we can still hope for the depression the AJC says is coming?

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

Sorry I missed your post before. We were joking about how they didn’t have any comments on several topics over there and the next day all the questions had a few comments, some several days old. So I don’t think they update even once a day.

Since GLW seems to respond to you, would you mind asking why he/she thinks the Government needs the NEA?

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

Comparing the American Medical Association, which protects the interests of Dr’s and the medical sciences (not a union but to some extent accomplishes the same thing) to the National Education Association, which protects the intersts of teachers and the education sciences.

Since the NEA is hated.. was wondering why the AMA isn’t?

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this

Yet teachers earn $50K a year… and Dr’s $300K +

By Bee Ess Detector.

December 6, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

””“BigDaddy,

Sorry I missed your post before. We were joking about how they didn’t have any comments on several topics over there and the next day all the questions had a few comments, some several days old. So I don’t think they update even once a day.”“”

No RW,you were being whiney and antagonistic as usual. You interupted, as usual, an honest debate. You flood this place with more whine more than the democrats.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

GLW, the economy was recovering long before Katrina was a gleam in the eye of it’s daddy hurricane (geez, I really tortured that, didn’t I?).

And $100 in savings vs. $30K in cc debt? Where did you get that data? I find that hard to believe, so if you could please point me in the right direction…

And why on earth do we need the NEA?

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

Andy may have a problem with the AMA. I am curious why the doctor did not detect the fluid in your lungs?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

GLW, acutally a lot of indpendent physicians don’t like the AMA at all. I know a bunch that consider it a crock…

By gadem

December 6, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Ricky the unemployment numbers are faulty, numbers can always be manipulated to strengthen any given arguement.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

It appears someones Bee Ess Detector needs batteries.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

gadem, those are the numbers used by the treasury dept. why are they faulty? are they always faulty? were they faulty under clinton too when he was arguing that the economy was doing great. I just want to know your basis for saying they are faulty, other than you not wanting to admit that the tax cuts have helped the economy

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

Meant consumer debt (not credit card)…

US consumer debt has reached staggering levels after more than doubling over the past 10 years. According to the most recent figures from the Federal Reserve Board, consumer debt hit $1.98 trillion in October 2003, up from $1.5 trillion three years ago. This figure, representing credit card and car loan debt, but excluding mortgages, translates into approximately $18,700 per US household.

Can’t find the latest figures… but it’s over $20K now (so I stretched it to $30K for effect).

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

It was an army emergency room attendant. He had no motivation. Anybody who’s been in knows that government clerks are immovable objects. Go try to get a driver’s license if you want the experience first hand. Socialism is the pits.

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

GLW, and what is the problem with leveraging for ownership? I know I didn’t write a check for my home. Let’s look at it from the perspective of home ownership with a theoretical family, the Smiths.

The Smiths currently live in a two-bedroom apartment where they pay $1000 a month. That money goes straight into the pocket of the owner of the apartment building, there is no ROI. The Smiths, attracted by low cost-of-capital (interest rates), decide to take that money that they were paying in rent and invest it in a home. Let’s say the Smith’s put 10% down on a $200K home - they’d have roughly the same payments they would paying rent at their current apartment, but with the added benefit of having a Return on their Investment down the road at time of sale. Even if the Smiths put $0 down, and took out an interest-only loan, they’d still gain equity as capital gain as the property appreciated over time.

By buff

December 6, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Two harmful NEAs

National Endowment for the Arts

National Education Association

By gadem

December 6, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Yes they were just as faulty under Clinton. . By faulty I mean those numbers show those people that are not filing for unemployment or who have dropped off of the system…the difference is that under Clinton the unemployment rate was 5%, but the wages were higher. The same can not be said today. Many technical and production jobs were lost to outsourcing, and although those people found jobs, they are not being paid nearly what they were making.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Andy, you should not talk bad about the government. Are you a pinko, how are we going to win the war with you talking bad about the government. Shape up soldier!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

Here’s another funny double standard of the left. They are agasint outsourcing of American jobs. However, if it comes to getting a cheaper product from a company outside of America, then they are all for that. So lets keep American companies paying higher wages for workers that can be replaced by cheaper labor thereby making that companies products cost more. But then we will go out and buy products from foreign companies that are cheaper. Almost makes you dizzy doesn’t it.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

Look at pinko GLW in ATL scrounge around looking for any bad news he can find to dog this booming brought to you by God and GW Bush economy. My stock portfolio is up 35% in 6 months. Keep ragging it, AJC’ers. Let me guess, your buying gold, aren’t you?

Merry Christmas!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

We were joking about how they didn’t have any comments on several topics over there and the next day all the questions had a few comments, some several days old. So I don’t think they update even once a day.

Really, the final straw for me came when a particularly noxious individual, Carlton Wyatt, called me out. We had a little back and forth, he looking increasingly inept, and as the defeated are wont to do, he resorted to becoming extremely nasty. I crafted a brilliant retort, and of course that submission was not posted. I complained to through a number of channels and was told that my response was not posted because it was off topic! Yet this fellow’s posts seemed to make it through just fine. Birds of a feather, I guess…

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

He has since called me a Nazi and a baby-killer. Curious fellow with many, many demons…

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

buff,

That was my point. The other day GLW said we needed the government to keep the NEA and the DOE for the sake of education, but the government NEA is the National Endowment for the Arts.

It appears from today’s posts that “GLW” is talking about the teachers union, so I don’t know how the government can decide on it’s existence.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

But that $200K home is now ‘valued’ at $300K… and the Smith’s took out a $80K Home Equity line to buy a new car and pay for a cruise. And their mortgage is an ARM which is about to jump up to 8% or 9%… and their monthly payments are going to go from $900 to $1600 a month (plus the home equity line).

So when they are forced to sell their home (along with all the others who got sucked into the housing bubble)… it won’t sell for $300… and maybe not even $200K (after all… the Smith’s couldn’t keep up with home maintanence)… and they file for bankruptcy… but oops the law changed and they still have to pay their debts if they come up with any money in the future…

That’s the ‘fear’. Please convince me otherwise…

By gadem

December 6, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

Ricky, most of what you buy is from a foreign company, but I try my best not to frequent companies like Wal-Mart that overwork/under compensate their workers.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

GLW - since you readily admit that you Dan-Rathered up your previous data, can you please cite for us where you got the “$100 in savings” info?

Fake but accurate is still fake…

By getalife

December 6, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

That would be This Justin?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

We had a little back and forth,

LOL You could have exchanged snail mail faster.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy, that sounds like a Faux news disclaimer…only theirs would include, Opinions are still news

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

gadem, I know that most of what I buy is from foreign countries. I make an effort to buy American as much as is reasonable. However, I don’t have a problem with American companies outsourcing jobs to lower wage countries in order to stay competitive with foreign companies.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

gadem, do you think CNN or MSNBC is more accurate or balanced than Fox News?

By buff

December 6, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

RW, yeah, I know. I wonder if he thinks the govt. has control over the teachers’ union? However, my point was that both are harmful.

I wish the GOP would suck it up and kill NEA funding. It does help finance lame artists who cannot sell their trash on the market

By Murf

December 6, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

F.Y.I. Here’s an ironic fun fact: Richard Milhouse Nixon was the first US President whose name contains all the letters from the word “criminal”. William Jefferson Clinton is the 2nd

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

Ricky:

gadem, I know that most of what I buy is from foreign countries. I make an effort to buy American as much as is reasonable. However, I don’t have a problem with American companies outsourcing jobs to lower wage countries in order to stay competitive with foreign companies.

So do you support NAFTA?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

GLW, it is always possible to refinance your mortgage - I’ve done it (though it was not to accomodate debt).

Look, you can’t save people from their own choices. If some people choose to live beyond their means then they will eventually suffer consequences for their choices. If there were no consequences, there would be nothing to dissuade irresponsible action. Remember, as I stated earlier, one of the prime tenents of social policy is that you get more of the action you encourage…

Anyway, you have cited a worst case example - not the norm. The figure of consumer debt you cited is a result of low interest rates. I would bet that the vast majority of that debt is locked in as car loans, as opposed to variable, and much higher, credit card rates.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

I appreciate your attempts to cast me with some political label… but I fail to see where I’ve indicated that communism or socialism are good systems.

I didn’t stand up for the NEA (education)… I just pointed out that to be consistent… the AMA should also be reviled (by those who hate the teacher’s union).

If anything I’m just a cynic.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Geezus, yes I do support free trade. It is good for both countries and encourages growth in the case of NAFTA in Mexico. Do you support NAFTA?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

gadem, acutally that was the line given by Dan Rather and Mary Mapes regarding their “expose” of President Bush’s national guard service. After their little problem with journalistic integrity was exposed, they claimed that while the documents may have been fakes, the report was accurate…

So, really, all you have to do to be a reporter is invent documents. Like right here, I have your most recent job review that says your employer is concerned about your obssession with felching and your NAMBLA membership.

So… maybe Rather and Mapes were onto something…

Okay, I’m kidding (and sorry, that was cheap and easy - like me), but you get the idea, I’m sure.

By gadem

December 6, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

Ricky I have yet to see the savings in my pockets. Call centers are stationed in India, you can not understand them, and they can not understand you. Wal-Mart is no cheaper than other stores. The notion that outsourcing lowers prices is a myth.

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

Personally, I don’t support NAFTA. I think it is one of Clinton’s weakest pieces of legislation. Now large corporate citizens are able to “relocate” factories and assembly plants to a location that saves them not only in the form of lower wages, but fewer benefits paid and they are able to bring those products into the country with little to no tarriffs (i.e. free) - the savings are not passed on to the consumer and are certainly not passed onto to the now unemployed workers. Mexico gains, the corporation gains with higher margins, US citizens lose (IMO).

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

Any my 401K doubled in a similar period of time under Clinton. But the economy isn’t on any better basing now than it was during the .dot bubble.

It’s still based on consumer confidence not ‘real’ economics.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

gadem, outsourcing does lower prices it is not a myth. If two plants produce the same product and one has to pay $10 a worker and the other pays $2 it makes the product cheaper for the eventual buyer. I know this is a simplistic example but it holds true.

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Outsourcing a help desk to India is completely different as help desk rolls are not a tangible commodity and cannot be taxed as a physical object. VoIP technology has enabled companies to send their help desks overseas without added phone tolls.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Not that you can trust economics… after all it’s a science and therefore just ‘theories’ based on observations and trends. Afterall, Capernicus was able to describe the solar system with the earth at the center.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Geezus, I am obviously not talking about help desks. I am talking about production plants that can produce the same product at a cheaper rate.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

Have you seen this? Mary Mapes said faxing probably made this happen.

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Me too, they (car companies for example) do not have to meet union demands for healthcare, retirement, wages, etc. in Mexico and because they are not paying tariffs to bring their Mexican assembled cars into the US, they are increasing their profit margins. The $25,000 car still costs $25,000 - the savings have not been passed to the US consumer. The European and Japanese automakers are building plants in the US because they are not under NAFTA i.e. they would still have to pay tariffs on each car, so it is most cost effective to build in the US and avoid tariffs.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

RW - amazing, too, how that font did not even exist at that time, particularly for the typewriter that was in use by the CO’s secretary…

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

GLW, economics is not all theories. Basic economics is based in fact and proven hypothesis. Advanced economies is theory based however.

By GLW in ATL

December 6, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

And by-the-way… since when is hyperbole on a web blog held to the same supporting evidence rules as national news outlet?

By Geezus

December 6, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

I will try to catch up later - Economics and NAFTA are much more interesting than healthcare (IMO) nice posts

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

GLW, relax, I’m just giving you a hard time. Of course we don’t have the same standards as the NY Times - we expect better than Jason Blair.

It’s just that if you’re going to advance an argument, be prepared to back it up with verifiable facts, or it tends to disprove your argument.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Andy,

Asked what they believe about WMDs in Iraq, 61 percent said there were still such weapons there or that there had been WMDs in the country but that they were destroyed or moved. Only 28 percent agree that Iraq had no WMDs.

I wonder why ml hasn’t shared this poll with us

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

RW, probably because it was conducted by Fox News.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

Sick, if a poll is conducted by Fox does that make it inaccurate? I think the more appropriate question would be how was the poll question phrased and who was asked.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

Check out ml’s office and work schedule

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Ricky, I agree. I just know how some are completely convinced that when info comes from a particular source, it’s automatically biased and has no basis in fact. The questions and the participants are, indeed, the vital factors.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

sickof…,

For Fox News not by Fox news. Opinion Dynamics has been one of the most reliable pollsters the last few years.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Sorry RW, read this “The most recent Fox News poll” and assumed conducted by Fox News. Didn’t read the whole story. My work computer wouldn’t let me register so couldn’t read the whole story.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Mike Luckovich: Our politicians today who fight against campaign reform — our politics have become corrupt with all this money. It sickens me to see Congress continually vote down campaign finance reform. They know how corrupt it is, but they defend it as freedom of speech. That’s just so hypocritical.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

sickof…,

Sorry, I didn’t realize the New York Post required registration (d-amn cookies hide everything from me).

I don’t think any of the MSM outlets conduct their own polling. I do wish all of them, including Fox, would make the internals more available.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

RW, saw this on Fox News.com -

In addition, some Americans think there are still weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. A 42 percent plurality thinks Iraq had weapons before the war and moved or destroyed them, while 28 percent think there were no WMD at all. Almost one in five (19 percent) think there are still WMD in Iraq

This based on the same poll. where it shows only 42% as opposed to the 61% you cited above.

By sickoftheneocons

December 6, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Or was the 61% among Republican participants?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

sickof,

Asked what they believe about WMDs in Iraq, 61 percent said there were still such weapons there or that there had been WMDs in the country but that they were destroyed or moved. Only 28 percent agree that Iraq had no WMDs.

That 61% combines the 42% and 19%. 42% that believe they were moved or destroyed and 19% that believe they are still there.

By Midori

December 6, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

RW — Are you aware that a study was done which shows Fox News watchers as idiots?

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1020-11.htm

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

Midori,

Yes, and I think you know that I don’t limit my news sources. But thanks for that enlightened comment, anyway.

By Semper Fi

December 6, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

“Big Daddy” it’s great to see you here. I used to enjoy reading you at the other site and then you disappeared. Hope all is well. You’ve come to the more entertaining site and there is definitely a place and need for your “calming” persona and you are in for loads of laughs thanks to a select group of creative and humorous minds.

By Objective Observer

December 6, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

Ditto “Big Daddy” just got in, saw your entry and had to come down and say “great to hear from you again.” Where have you been? Anyway, like “Semper” said, you are in for a great ride.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

I like Midori’s link: Breaking news for the progressive community. It has a certain air of pretentiousness to it, you can almost imagine the urban elite gathering over some whine and cheese to talk about how much better they are than those Jesus Freaks out in the hinterlands. It’s sort of comforting to know who’s really fooling themselves.

What’s even more funny is it’s only a matter of time before Fox rips off the sheep’s clothing to reveal the pinko lib Hillary endorsing wolf underneath.

Merry Christmas!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 05:11 PM | Link to this

I love how Midori assumes all people that watch Fox are idiots. Sort of like the London paper that had the headline after Bush’s election “How can 55 million people be so stupid.” you have got to love how the left always thinks they are better than the average american

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 05:15 PM | Link to this

Andy,

This is the “study” midori is referring to

If you disagree with any of their moonbat ideas then you are considered to have a misperception of reality.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 05:22 PM | Link to this

Speaking of moonbat, did you see Cindy on CNN? She calls him George and George calls her Cindy. They are friends?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 05:26 PM | Link to this

getalife,

Well they have met, you know. Fox News watchers know that,it must be a misperception. Funny that they had pictures though.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 05:28 PM | Link to this

Cindy calls him George out of disrespect. Talk about your loonies. She is way out there.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 05:32 PM | Link to this

RW, I don’t watch Fox News, I watch CNN and others but saw a commercial where Lou Dobbs asked what about the middle class and he wants answers. Sounded like he was running for President. Clark is on right now and says Bush should be tried for war crimes. Also, in ml’s interview, it said he was getting hate mail and death threats. Andy?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 05:43 PM | Link to this

getalife,

Step away from the keyboard for a second.

Lou Dobbs sounds like he’s running?

Which moonbat Clark? They seem to be everywhere.

ml’s interview where?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 05:45 PM | Link to this

For CNN fans

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:48 PM | Link to this

RW: I watched all of the networks in March 2003 when the U.S. crossed the border into Iraq and the only station that didn’t have Washington D.C. surrounded by Republican Guards was Fox. So, by all means, of course they were “misleading.”

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 05:50 PM | Link to this

RW, you have to switch off Fox News every once in a while, there are other outlets. New Lou Dobbs commercial on CNN, Bolten is on tonight talking about UN reform. The Clark in Iraq and ml’s interviewYes, the meds have kicked in and chasing them down with keg Miller Light.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:51 PM | Link to this

Who stooped low enough to interview cartoon boy? What did they ask him: “Tell us how you feel about this President?” What could anybody possibly want to know?

Merry Christmas!

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 05:58 PM | Link to this

This news is fake but accurate-

CBS falls 11 percent

So long to you, C B.S.

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:00 PM | Link to this

getalife,

Oh Ramsey Clark, now there is an objective voice.

Andy,

I wonder if the people that say no weapons of mass destruction were found would like to store the VX and sarin gas that was found. It’s only a little bit, after all it’s only enough to kill about 500,000 people.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 06:03 PM | Link to this

They showed Clark’s client list. Not very good people. Andy, did you send ml hate mail?

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 06:07 PM | Link to this

Ramsey Clark will defend his fav dictator of the moment. He had defend PLO members and some of the worst of the Balkan killers. He has no morality. There is no right and wrong in his world, or good and evil for that matter. What a joke that he was the Attorney General of the best country in the world. Just goes to show what a joke Carter was.

By getalife

December 6, 2005 06:08 PM | Link to this

I think he is the modern day Benedict Arnold.

By finch

December 6, 2005 06:10 PM | Link to this

So many posts, so little time! I see the Bushbots are exulting over the latest economic snapshot “suggesting” that the “expansion is on a roll”. What tripe.

Leave it to Paul Krugman to see the big picture:

” It should have been a good year for American families: the economy grew 4.2 percent, its best performance since 1999. Yet most families actually lost economic ground. Real median household income - the income of households in the middle of the income distribution, adjusted for inflation - fell for the fifth year in a row. And one key source of economic insecurity got worse, as the number of Americans without health insurance continued to rise.”

Read the whole thing here.

The Bushbots can talk until they’re blue in the face, but all middle and working class Americans see are stagnating paychecks, mounting expenses, rising debts, and empty wallets.

I don’t want to stray too off topic here, so I’ll add that you can blame the crappy US health care system, among other factors, for this lack of consumer confidence.

And here’s how to fudge the numbers, White House style. “Durable goods orders rose 3.7% in October!” But take away primarily military aircraft orders, and orders were up 0.6%. Stagnant.

But forget the numbers. In our consumer driven economy, the only real evidence you need is the cobwebs you see when you look into the typical America’s wallet.

Any hey, all you Bushbot posters? Don’t you have REAL jobs? Or are you robbing your employer by constantly slumming here?

Merry Christnnukah!

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 06:11 PM | Link to this

Here is a link to some of the people ole Ramsey has defended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey_Clark

By Objective Observer

December 6, 2005 06:12 PM | Link to this

Just worked my way to the end. “Big” just read your 2:54 post re:expulsion from the other site. The same thing happened to my son there…interesting! I thought he was just being paranoid.

By Ricky

December 6, 2005 06:14 PM | Link to this

finch, are you a libbot poster? Have you ever seen Paul Krugman write a good article about this administration? He predicted two years that the economy was going into a recession and wouldn’t recover for years. Great insight by one of the NY Times finest.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this

finch,

But forget the numbers. In our consumer driven economy, the only real evidence you need is the cobwebs you see when you look into the typical America’s wallet.

Why is looking in someone else’s wallet the first thing liberals think about economically?

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:21 PM | Link to this

Ricky,

Don’t forget that finch’s hero can also be called “Former Enron Adviser Paul Krugman”.

That’s the kind of economic genius we need.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:22 PM | Link to this

Finch: There is no doubt in my mind that you and Paul Krugman are getting hammered by this good economy. Look at C B.S. losing 11%. People aren’t buying your b.s. anymore, they’re too busy getting rich.

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:28 PM | Link to this

finch,

The Paul Krugman that wrote this three days after 9/11?

In a New York Times article, September 14, 2001, he wrote that the destruction of the WTC could prove to be an economic boon to the city. After all, there would have to be cleanup work and rebuilding, generating economic activity.

More about Krugman here

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:29 PM | Link to this

Don’t cut newspaper staff at the Los Angeles Times. As corporate owners in Chicago reap large profits from the Times, there is no excuse for them to force our paper to abandon its responsibility to deliver strong watchdog journalism to the public.

So which American Patriots do you think gave that quote? Patrick Henry? Benjamin Franklin? Why no, it was MoveOn.org. I wonder why they don’t want to lose the L.A. Times???? Does it employ members of the MoveOn family?? Do they own stock in it???

Is it one of their anti American, anti Bush propoganda machines? Noooooooooo, pinkos wouldn’t lie!

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:39 PM | Link to this

Maybe it’s just me, does this headline seem a little misleading? and it’s not from Fox

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:47 PM | Link to this

RW: Even the Israelis can’t resist the lure of the 72 virgins…

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 06:53 PM | Link to this

Andy,

Except the story tells that it was Palis, as usual.

Look at this from the Tucker blog:

By candide

December 6, 2005 05:29 AM | Link to this

Is the Bush administration trustworthy? Is the Pope Catholic?

Is candide answering yes? If so it must not be our candide.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 06:57 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi, Objective Observer, thanks for rolling out the welcome mat. It feels so good to be wanted…

Now, RW, take it easy on finch. I’m sure finch was being ironic in citing Paul Krugman, because no self-respecting person on the face of the earth could lend any credence of respectability to that preening venom-speweing PJ Carlisimo look-alike. (Where is Latrell Sprewell when you need him?).

I’ve talked to economics professors who tell me that he is even more of an insufferable jerk in person than he is on paper. What’s worse, they say that the farther left he moves, the less adherence he has to economic reality. (And I had to ask one of these professors if he was a pinko…)

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 06:59 PM | Link to this

A perfect Christmas gift for any pinko-

2006 Great American Conservative Women Calendar

Your favorite pinko will thank for this gift and for helping him to see that there are real women in the United States and not just girly men like Hillary and Nacy Pelosi.

Merry Christmas!

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 07:09 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

That’s two days in a row finch has posted the same Krugman bs which we let slide the first time.

Don’t worry “finch” isn’t as fragile as the name implies.

Besides anybody that sends me off doing research on Enron advisers deserves a little grief.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 07:14 PM | Link to this

There are two rules that should be held above all others on here - 1) don’t invent statistics to back up your argument (witness GLW earlier), because I’ll call you on it. 2) Don’t cite Paul Krugman unless you want to make me laugh…

Well, maybe not above ALL others, but those need to be rules…

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 07:14 PM | Link to this

P J Carlesimo

Paul Krugman

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 07:17 PM | Link to this

RW - I know, seperated at birth? Maybe it was that Sprewell actually throttled Krugman, cutting off his supply of oxygen and permanently damaging his brain. That might help explain his Angry Left diatribes…

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 07:22 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

Another thing you’ll find here is that trying to make rules is a very unwelcome thing.

Also watch for posts from a familiar name with an unfamiliar odor.

I think it’s pretty funny that the NY Times his him behind their paid wall. Maybe he too embarrassing for even them.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 07:27 PM | Link to this

RW, I’m aware of the rules not being very welcomed. In the run-up to Bush’s victory in 2004, I spent a while hammering those that took the word of Farenheit 9/11 as their new gospel. I dubbed them the Moore-ons, and kept a running tab of their population. Those placed on the Moore-on list were immediately given less credence than those who are capable of reasoned and informed discourse. Of course you never heard such shrieks of indignation after these Moore-ons were exposed…

By getalife

December 6, 2005 07:28 PM | Link to this

Midori would like this one

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 07:44 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

Fahrenheit 9/11 wasn’t the gospel truth? I’m shocked, shocked I say.

I didn’t know that board had been around that long. Obviously it must have operated differently.

I used to love the on line chats with Bookman. You could stack questions and responses and they would just start popping up during the hour. I wonder why he quit? /sarc.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 08:19 PM | Link to this

Back on topic - here is an excellent editorial calling for scrapping the entire Medicare prescriptin drug plan altogether. It was penned by the head of the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis, a conservative/libertarian think tank:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113384041867614875.html?mod=opinionmaincommentaries

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 08:22 PM | Link to this

Can I ask a techno-stupid question: how do you post a link under text? (As opposed to what I just did by cutting and pasting an entire link).

One day, when I grow up, I hope to be as techno-savvy as my grandmother…

By Midori

December 6, 2005 08:25 PM | Link to this

Getalife —

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Der Bushfuhrer :)

On the serious side tho, I really think he’s morphing into Nixon.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 08:30 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

Like this:

[BigDaddy’s link](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113384041867614875.html?mod=opinionmaincommentaries

No space between the [and( and add a closed parenthesis at the end

BigDaddy’s Link

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 08:31 PM | Link to this

BD,

Sorry no space between ]and(

By Midori

December 6, 2005 08:31 PM | Link to this

RW and BigDaddy,

thanks for reminding me — I bought a second copy of F/911 today - I gave my original one to a friend.

I’ll think about you guys WARMLY after I log off soon and go watch it.

I’ll probably see you in the scenes shot before the enlistment station :)

Happy Holidays.

Free Delay!!

Free Abramoff!!!

Free Scanlon!!!

Free Cunningham!!!!

Free Ney!!!!!

Free Lemonade!!!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 08:33 PM | Link to this

Midori, I heard him answering a question about the Dean comment on the war, and he sounded just like his Dad. At least his Dad was smart enough to get out or cut and run as they like to say. Like Powell warned him.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 08:34 PM | Link to this

Midori,

Would that be where Congressman Wilson (R-SC) told him he had three sons in the military, but Moore skipped it and said no Congress persons had children in the service?

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 08:35 PM | Link to this

Okay, let me give this a try

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 08:41 PM | Link to this

nods to RW.

Midori, “fake but accurate” reached its apex with F9/11. Supporting the work of Micky Moore is tantamount to wearing a dunce cap. His best work was hit turn in Team America: World Police

By Semper Fi

December 6, 2005 08:42 PM | Link to this

Getalife, I watched that interview with Ramsey( I love dictators more than Carter) Clarke on CNN(America’s Al jazeera’s station).. Boy CNN loves Ramsey, they just let him go on and on with the impeach Bush stuff. Ramsey is helping them build Saddam up as a real nice guy. At the end, Clarke said Saddam liked to read beautiful poems. Looks like the liberal CNN is really going to go after making Saddam a hero and just another victim of Bush. I mainly only check CNN if I am interested in the most recent body count or explosion. It generally takes FOX 20 minutes or so to report it but you can always get it about every two minutes on CNN.

As a public service announcement, for you VETS. Even if you weren’t disabled in the service you can still get VA benefits. Just go to the VA.GOV site and sign up. Doesn ‘t matter if you have a great job and millions in assets, just check NO that you don’t want to list your finances. They will penalize you by making you pay $15 copay for a visit and $7 copay per prescription per month. I signed up about a year ago, when my employers copay was 50 and 30 dollars a month for cholesterol drugs the doc wanted me on. It reduced a quarterly drug bill from 240 to 42. Just carry your personal Dr’s prescription with you and the VA doc will give you the same or the closest VA has to it. They send you 3 months supply in the mail and you just reorder over the phone. You guys and gals deserve it. I feel like a dumocrat taking these government entitlements. Believe this or not, but the VA rep told me not to pay the copays, that no one did. Heck I’m tickled to pay this little amount. Suppose this is typical of a govt run program.

By Semper Fi

December 6, 2005 08:44 PM | Link to this

Getalife, I watched that interview with Ramsey( I love dictators more than Carter) Clarke on CNN(America’s Al jazeera’s station).. Boy CNN loves Ramsey, they just let him go on and on with the impeach Bush stuff. Ramsey is helping them build Saddam up as a real nice guy. At the end, Clarke said Saddam liked to read beautiful poems. Looks like the liberal CNN is really going to go after making Saddam a hero and just another victim of Bush. I mainly only check CNN if I am interested in the most recent body count or explosion. It generally takes FOX 20 minutes or so to report it but you can always get it about every two minutes on CNN.

As a public service announcement, for you VETS. Even if you weren’t disabled in the service you can still get VA benefits. Just go to the VA.GOV site and sign up. Doesn’t matter if you have a great job and millions in assets, just check NO that you don’t want to list your finances. They will penalize you by making you pay $15 copay for a visit and $7 copay per prescription per month. I signed up about a year ago, when my employers copay was 50 and 30 dollars a month for cholesterol drugs the doc wanted me on. It reduced a quarterly drug bill from 240 to 42. Just carry your personal Dr’s prescription with you and the VA doc will give you the same or the closest VA has to it. They send you 3 months supply in the mail and you just reorder over the phone. You guys and gals deserve it. I feel like a dumocrat taking these government entitilements. Believe this or not, but the VA rep told me not to pay the copays, that no one did. Heck I’m tickled to pay this little amount. Suppose this is typical of a govt run program.

By I Wish I Was Andy

December 6, 2005 08:48 PM | Link to this

Finally! A Funny Political Cartoon!

Merry Christmas!

By getalife

December 6, 2005 08:50 PM | Link to this

Semper Fi, If you read any of my posts, I said Clark is the modern day Benedict Arnold and Saddam should have eaten a grenade in that spider hole and not be on trial. Thanks for Vet info though.

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 08:51 PM | Link to this

RW, you have given me a great new toy. I could get dangerous with this thing

Scroll down a hair for the pic…

By getalife

December 6, 2005 08:54 PM | Link to this

The central front in the war on wingnuttery. Nice link.

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy,

You’re welcome, but it’s hard to take credit for something that can be found directly over where it says Comments:

I would have done your link this way:

RW, you have given me a great new toy. I could get dangerous with this thing

Scroll down a hair for the pic..

By getalife

December 6, 2005 09:02 PM | Link to this

Check out this new virus

By Semper Fi

December 6, 2005 09:08 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the f*%up and it was such a lengthy one too!

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:11 PM | Link to this

This is funny: scroll down for a vague explanation of how the system works

By buff

December 6, 2005 09:16 PM | Link to this

BigDaddy, glad to see YOU on this blog

finch, you actually quoted Paul Krugman? Why not C. Tucker? or Fidel Castro, or Jay Bookishman? or Maureen Dowd? or Ramsey Clark? or Josef Stalin? or Vladimir Lenin? or Karl Marx, or Howard Dean?

To economics: the biggest difference between the ideologies is that leftists/liberals/pinkos/moonbats want the pie split up differently; conservatives/ good guys ‘n gals/America-lovers/true patriots just want a bigger pie. If you can tear off a piece, go for it.

Liberalism is a mental disorder

By BigDaddy

December 6, 2005 09:22 PM | Link to this

actual working economist (as opposed to pure academic economists, such as Krugman - who have nothing at stake when they make addle-brained pronouncements) and pundit Donald Luskin, published a book a couple years ago that dedicated a section to exposing Krugman for the nitwit he is.

Here’s some funny posts from his website

By buff

December 6, 2005 09:24 PM | Link to this

If the leftists had been in charge of this country in 1941 we would now be living in a feudal/fascist state

What/how/why do you people think as you do. Even Socialist domestic policy-wonk FDR knew that appeasing tyranny NEVER works

You people have the Neville Chamberlain/Jimmy Carter “peace in our time” mentality.

You believe that peace is the absence of war. Speak to the 30+ million of souls that Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot butchered

Liberalism is a mental disorder

By RW-(the original)

December 6, 2005 09:36 PM | Link to this

buff, BigDaddy, Semper Fi,

The new toon is up if you want faster refresh times.

By finch

December 6, 2005 10:22 PM | Link to this

Golly, it took long enough for you guys to take the Krugman bait. You are so SLOW.

But bear baiting is fun. I think of all the time you spent mousing around for fringe sites and I just laugh…

Now that Maureen Dowd is back, I’m going to try to put her in the mix here.

Merry Hannumas!