Woman to Woman

By Allan

May 16, 2005 07:14 AM | Link to this

To Diane Glass: Being a male, I disagree with assuming that men do not have control. On the contrary, they do. Most choose not to use that control. Keep in mind that I am married. I have been loyal to my wife and will continue to do so. On a second note, two wrongs do not make a right. Instead of lowering the standards for women, why not higher the standards for men?! What a get from what you are saying is men can be loose, so women should be able to, also. Why not reduce the spread of STD’s by discouraging someone’s infidelity and promiscuity?

By James

May 16, 2005 07:57 AM | Link to this

This is a pretty lame subject for these two very intelligent women to be discussing. However, I think the news has made much ado out of nothing with this little boy. He was last week’s flavor. He is desperate for publicity, at anyone’s expense. Paula’s public persona is wonderful and I feel she is real. Leave this woman alone!

BTW: Diane, all men are pigs! And, I love bacon!

By Brian Curtis

May 16, 2005 08:17 AM | Link to this

I can’t wait to see them weigh in on the Michael Jackson trial next week. Anything to avoid issues of real import, eh?

By Ben

May 16, 2005 08:33 AM | Link to this

Are they serious? I know this topic is going to be a dead issue really quick, but Paula doesn’t owe anybody anything. What is it with people that think they always deserve and explanation or an apology from someone?

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

Couldn’t find anything else to talk about, could they? tsk tsk tsk

By Lola

May 16, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this

The only thing more idiotic than the actual question was Diane’s response to it. This topic is ridiculous, so I’ll just hang till we (as always) develop a better and more interesting topic. I like Paula Abdul and I think this little thug wanna-be is after nothing but publicity. Who cares if they had a fling? Are either of them married? Did he win? No and no. So non-issue. Nobody cares.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

I have a topic…why are we closing military bases here and spending more money keeping our military overseas???

By Stan

May 16, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

How long before this turns into a religious debate? Or a discussion about race? Or economics? Or the evils of homosexuality? Always the same thing. Paula doesn’t owe anybody explanation. Corey, who I admit is hot, did this only to get his fifteen minutes of fame and make his mark in pop scandal history.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

AJC must not like the present set of bloggers. The only logical responce that I can see from us is “who cares” :)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

Or we could talk about how Georgia State University is giving scholarships to illegal aliens….

By Bruce

May 16, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

I just love the way Diane placed all the responsibility on the man. Poor women are always the victims aren’t they!!! Such BS

By Ben

May 16, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, I think the base closures have a significant on military spending and the operation of military forces. Before BRAC the majority of military bases were just these monster fortresses that used only 60 percent of the land they consumed. This is more of an issue overseas than it is stateside, but money was wasted to maintain this excess land when it could have been used to benefit the community that housed the base. Ideally, the only bases that have vast amounts of land should include air bases or bases that houses certain training activities.

Additionally, the closings will force a lot of bases and units to consolidate their activities. This even includes joining Army with Air Force, Navy with Marines, so on and so forth. This only lends to the training environment and will enhance joint operations, which unlike the past, are becoming more and more necessary as we change the way we fight wars or respond to conflicts.

Before, the Marines would go in and tear things up, then the Army would come stablilize and rebuild. Now, they are sharing the responsibilities of both and it makes for a more efficient military if we train the way we play.

By Harold

May 16, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

I usually disagree with Diane and this is no exception. The difference between the Hugh Grant and Paula situations is that Hugh wasn’t engaged in a contest. What they both did was stupid, but Paula ended up cheating all of the other contestants on the show.

Diane can’t see plain logic due to her hatred of all things male. Let me guess, Diane, you are also a liberal?

By Jack

May 16, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

Oh wait! Paula is black and that’s why she got more coverage. Had she been white, it would have been dismissed as another Hollywood affair. Also, it all the Christians fault because they believe what was done is wrong and thats why the unbiased media made a big deal out of it.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

Well damn, where have I been all this time, I had NO IDEA that Paula was black!

By Tim

May 16, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

Is this for real??????? this has got to be an April fools joke… oh wait that was last month… this must be for real then… I watch AI every week… have for the past 3 years (I know I am a dork and need to get a life… oh well)… I really don’t give a rats butt if she explains her relationship with the nasty lil thug or not… if she does fine and if she doesn’t fine… I really don’t care… I am more interested in things like recruitment by the army slipping but at the same time still standing by their “don’t ask don’t tell” policy… or the fight in the senate between the filibuster and the nuclear option… or even the chance of seeing a clinton/gingrich ‘08 run for the white house (obviously joking with that one)… I mean good lord anything but whether or not Paula should explain if there was some ankle grabbing goin on in her dressing room with AI contestants… by reading this question I would think that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else going on in the world

By Lola

May 16, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Stan - do you really think he’s hot??? I find him utterly repulsive! He reminds me of the lead singer of DeBarge (boy, am I dating myself with that one! :)

LaShelle - I am furious about the GSU scholarships that are going to illegals! That is nothing but a big slap in the face to all the other AMERICAN students who are turned down for them, even after working hard. I have a major problem with the inaction of our President in regard to protecting our borders from the invading masses. That said, it would be wonderful if for just a week, we could avoid (as Stand said) turning this into a religious debate, or a discussion about race, or economics, or the evils of homosexuality. How about talking about Newsweek and their “article” about the Koran being flushed down the toilet, sparking protests and actual deaths as a result, and now they are back tracking saying they don’t actually KNOW if that happened or not. Sometimes I really wonder whose side these magazines are on, and what they hope to gain by printing something that would so OBVIOUSLY cause massive anger and resentment to America. Should they be held responsible for irresponsible journalism?

By Jack

May 16, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, just playing Norman. :)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

So…how ‘bout them Falcons?? :o)

By Tim

May 16, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

or how about discussing whether or not the man on death row should be allowed to donate his liver to his sister? I mean come on ANYTHING but this!!!!!

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Yes to the responsibility of irresponsible journalism, if it were a person, they’d probably be trying to find a way to put this “person” on trial and send ‘em to jail!… and yes, if he’s a match, let the man help his sister out! I mean, he’s on death row for Pete’s sake! Not like he’ll need it much longer, may as well put it to better use.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

How bout that brawny guy? He’s gotta be gay. (no offense meant to those of that persuasion)

By RS

May 16, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

I agree 100% with LaShelle & Tim. I couldn’t possibly care less about Paula AbDULLARD who, as far as I’m concerned is eye-candy wannabe. Yawn…

By Lola

May 16, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Tim - sounds like I need a life too, since I haven’t missed a single episode or season of AI. :)

I hadn’t heard about the death row inmate and donating his liver, but DUH! He’s going to die, so why not let him give life to someone before he does? I don’t see what the debate on that is even about.

Wait…Paula Abdul is black?

By E. Lewis

May 16, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Things must be going really slow in the world if the is the best discussion they could come up with this week.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this

Actually, Jack, I always thought that the brawny guy and Mr. Clean would make a very snappy gay couple. And BOY would their house be spotless! I also had my doubts about Madge and her obsession with putting peoples’ hands into dish washing lotion. What was that about?

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

LOL@Lola…don’t feel bad, there are a couple million people who apparently need a life, probably more since the invention of TIVO

By Tim

May 16, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Lola… haha… glad I am not alone on the AI bandwagon :)

they say by donating his liver to his sister the surgery would kill him and that I guess would be deemed a ‘cruel and unusual’ way to be executed

it is a new story that I just heard about a little this morning on The Today Show… I really felt for the poor mom… she said she only had two children and she was pleading saying that she was already going to lose one and child and was hoping she would not have to lose both of them

I do need to add though that they have not tested to see if he were a match yet… but I would think they could at least test and see… I think it would be pretty crappy if he did end up being a match and they did not let him donate his liver to his sister

By Lola

May 16, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

By not allowing him to donate his liver to his sister (if they are a match), they are sentencing her to death as well as him, which I would consider cruel and unusual. How could it possibly be the wrong thing to do? Sometimes the laws that have the best of intentions are the ones that end up being the worst ever created.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this

Thanks, LaShelle and Tim! My husband makes fun of me for being so into AI, but I just can’t help it! It’s a macabre fascination, I’ll admit, but I just love watching it.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Lola… I couldn’t agree more about the guy on death row

by the way… who is your favorite on AI? (my poor attempt to stay on a boring topic)

Jack… you have pretty good ‘gay-dar’… he could be a mo

hmmm… I wonder what the brawny guy and Mr. Clean’s kids would look like??? see ANYTHING is better than the topic at hand lol

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

Most laws are open to interpretation and I’m pretty sure if they wanted to, they could find a way to ‘interpret’ this differently so that if they are a match, they would allow it. I know it sounds mean but if they wanted to, he lawyer could probably appeal to have his date of execution moved up. That way they could harvest the liver in time to save the sister and the justice system would be happy.

By kimberly

May 16, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Who the HECK cares? Good Lord have mercy. Do you people actually WATCH this garbage? And WHY would you care who they sleep with?

Why not spend a week checking out C-SPAN in prime time. You’d be AMAZED at what comes out of the mouths of your Congressman and Senators. And what THEY do affects MILLIONS of lives… Perhaps even YOURS!

GOL-DANG-MUNDAY-LOVERS….. I am SO SICK of stoooooooopid ignorant Americans who know everything about nothing and nothing about anything that matters! WAKE UP, people!

By Lola

May 16, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Tim - My favorite on AI is by FAR Bo. He’s just got something hot and spicy about him, and he has a wonderful voice to boot. Plus, he has an amazing stage presence that none of the others seem to have, which probably comes from him having experience in peforming in front of people prior to AI. In any case, I definitely like him the best.

And LOL at picturing what Mr. Clean and Brawny Man’s kids would look like! I picture a bald little boy with a gold earring and a flannel shirt. What’s a “mo”?

By Tim

May 16, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Lola… I like Bo also… honestly I love all 3 of them… I will buy all of their cd’s… I do have to say my favorite is Vonzell… I think she is the sweetest thing and she tends to sing the kind of music I like best… I honestly would LOVE for her to do a whole CD of disco remakes… I think she would do an AWESOME job (I know I am so gay lol)… I also have to say that AI is my form of ‘crack’… I am addicted… my 21st birthday Tuesday night… toward the end of the 2nd season of AI… my friends all wanted to take me out to dinner and party… I told them it would have to wait until the end of AI cus there was NO WAY I was going to miss it… CRAZINESS

hahahahahaha… I cannot get the visual out of my head of your description of their child… he would look soooooo gay… hahaha… oh and “mo” is short for “homo” which is short for “homosexual”… used in a sentence ‘Did you see how he was dressed, he is definitely a mo’ :)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Damn who pissed in your cornflakes Kim, we’ve already established that we don’t care about the topic at hand but you would have read some of the posts you would know that and two, we all know that some of our representatives are idiots and we can’t be that ignorant or you wouldn’t be here honey.

By Stan

May 16, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Corey can get it. I always liked Debarge, even though I was like four or five when they came out. Chico Debarge was/is the one of the hottest people ever.

Anyway, onto something else. Let the guy donate his liver. Why is it okay to let somebody rot in jail? You look at the same four walls everyday, you do the same routine everyday. How cruel is that. Let the man at least do something noble before he dies, and donate the liver.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

You know society is going downhill when there are people waitng in line for days to get tickets for a MOVIE. Geez. Kimberly is right. We are a bunch of sheep. Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

By kimberly

May 16, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, wasn’t talking about you, Hon. Yes, my cornflakes were peed upon this morning. Sorry.

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

Kimberly,

Since AI is onof the top watched shows in America for 4 years now Iwould say there are millions of people watching it. Regardless of its worth in how America is run, when I come home I want to relax and not worry about what is going on in the country or world. If you don’t watch it, that’s fine, you stay on cspan.

As far as Paula, who cares what she done in private. As far as cheating to help him out. He was booted from the show so he sure didn’t gain anything. I think it would have took far more coaching and affairs for him to come close to Rueben or Clay.

Paula is black?

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

Sorry to hear that Kim, just try to take some deep breaths…I know how ya feel believe me traffic can do that to you. :o)

By Jack

May 16, 2005 10:47 AM | Link to this

I thought she was. I know Tiger isn’t. If I’m wrong sorry for my ignorance. Just trying to stir stuff up since we have such a great topic.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 10:47 AM | Link to this

Stan - ouch! You were four or five when they came out??? Man, I’m an old hag! :)

Tim - thank you for clarifying for me what a “mo” is. I hadn’t ever heard that one before. And I could not agree more with you about Vonzell and a disco CD. I LOVED disco in the 70’s when I was a kid (feeling old haggy again), and I really enjoy the nights when they do the disco theme. She totally ROCKS when it comes to that genre. And she is a total doll. No argument there.

kimberly - it’s kind of nice having a not SO serious topic right away, isn’t it? I know it won’t last, but I’m sure enjoying easing into our blog this week instead of jumping right in with an enormously controvercial topic. Relax and ride along. It will come to a screeching halt soon enough (about the time that norman chimes in, I’m guessing).

You make a great point about law interpretation, LaShelle. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by not letting the death row guy’s sister have his liver, and much to lose. I feel very sorry for their mother as well.

Did anyone watch Extreme Makeover Home Edition last night? I cried my eyes out.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Lola, My mom and sister did and they were telling me about it…I wonder if I could get an extreme car makeover, without the car :o)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

QUICK QUESTION, CAN I ASK EVERYONE’S OPINION ON SOMETHING?

By Archie

May 16, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

Paula Abdul should not respond to Corey’s allegations because it appears her career is taking off again because of the allegations. Frankly I believe she did have sex with the young man and it does not bother me. I agree with Diane that it appears that Abdul used her money and power to “get some” then basically act as if nothing happened just a man with similar money and power would have done. I don’t what’s so great about this Corey person but then I am not a woman. The topic is a little weak and maybe a better discussion would be about May and December romances. We have come a long way as women are more aggressive sexually but then again it seems as if women want a take-charge-man but they want a sensitive man as well. Women appear to be more selfish in the 47 and under age group. Women are complex and thus there is no need for further explanation from Abdul.

By spicegurl

May 16, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

What you all are forgetting is that this is “woman to woman” now everybody knows women aren’t interested in hard news, right? Back in the “good ole days” that some people are sooooo fond of, women only were allowed to write the soft news in the newspaper and apparently we are seeing some residual woman news thing here. If I were either of these women I’d be mad as hell that I’m having to deal with the idiot topics they have on this forum. Mr. Editor, are you listenin’?

By Ben

May 16, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

HUH?!?

By Tim

May 16, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Lola… glad I could help with the ‘gay lingo’ now you can impress all your gay friends when you tell them ‘you are such a mo’ :)

I have always loved disco music (but like I said I LOVE all of the final 3 contestants… hope all of them are very successful)… I know more about disco than my mom does… growing up she would always tell me I was born in the wrong decade

who is the Debarge group you and Stan keep talking bout… what are some of their songs… I don’t think I have never heard of them?

I missed Home Makeover last night (sorting out family issues) and I LOVE that show… it sounded like a tear jerker though cus I could hear Ty crying on the tv in the other room… what was the family story?

and yes LaShelle you make a great point about interpretation of the law… thanks for your contributions to this blog! :)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

What could I do if I bought a car from a reputable dealership only to find out two months later that the car was unsafe to drive. The dealer is claiming no responsibility and basically saying “sorry lady but you’re s.o.l.”

By Lola

May 16, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

LaShelle - It was the best episode I’ve seen so far of that show. I usually just watch because Ty Pennington is on it (what a hottie!) but last night the family’s story was just heart-wrenching and I haven’t cried that hard at anything in a very long time. It was about man who is a NY Policeman and his three young sons (ages 5, 3 and 17 months) whose wife had been diagnosed with cancer (she was 28) when her youngest was only 5 months old, and she died within 5 months of the diagnosis. They showed video of her taken at her best friend’s wedding the week before she went into the hospital for the very last time, and she was all smiles in her head scarf (hair gone from chemo) and she was living it up and dancing with friends and her husband, but you could see on her face when she hugged her friend that she knew it was the end. Then it showed her and her husband kiss and hug, and his face was saying that he knew it too. But it gave you a glimpse into what the family had lost, and how full of life and spirit she was. It really made me take stock in the people in my life and how lucky I am to have them.

By RS

May 16, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

(I LOVE DISCO!!) Well one of the biggest problems I have with AI is their restrictions. I know someone who attempted to try out for it. He’s got a tremendous singing voice, talented as all get-out but because he’s “over the age limit”, they wouldn’t let him audition. THEIR loss, but that tells me it’s all about youth & image more so than talent.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Tim - Debarge sang “rhythm of the night” and it was a real poppy catchy tune in the 80’s. Check out this link: http://classic.motown.com/artist.aspx?ob=per&srs=prd&aid=13 It doesn’t get much more 80’s than that! LOL

LaShelle - I’m assuming that the warranty on this car has expired, right? Can I ask what dealership? Was it Carmax? If so, I had a similar experience.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

Lola it was ED VOYLES HONDA ON COBB PARKWAY IN MARIETTA. And yes I bought it used so it had no warranty, but it never safe to be sold in the first place.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

RS - did you see on the try-out shows when that guy who was at LEAST 40 tried to convince them that he was 27? It was hilarious! In all honesty, it is the youth of today who tend to buy more new CDs (of new artists) than the older generations do. If I buy a new CD, it’s a country one. Otherwise it’s bound to be nostalgia music from my youth (70’s pop and disco). I don’t even know who most of these new artists are, let alone what they sing. I can’t stand the noise they call music these days.

Well, it’s official. I’ve turned into my mother.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, go to clarkhoward .com and do a search on the lemon law. Sometimes he tells people that are legally SOL to check with the authorities first, then picket the dealership on a Saturday. He says that usually does the trick as this scares away all of the potential buyers. (those scumbags)

By Tim

May 16, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Lola… yup that episode would have made my cry… anytime their are children involved I tend to cry the entire episode… oh and I am with ya on Ty… i rather enjoy when he works without a shirt on haha

I have thought about nominating my grandparents for that show… they are in their 70s but are still have to care for two of their children… my aunt has cerebral palsy (her entire right side is crippled) and is midly mentally-handicapped… and my uncle has some form of arthirtis (I cannot remember the scientific term but it is the worst case you can have)… my grandfather has to help him out of bed every morning… and on top of this my grandmother has very bad asthma (sp) and is having a lot of trouble with her vision and my grandfather has hearing problems, he is diabetic, and has cancer, a slow progressing leukemia (and he didn’t retire from driving a truck until about a year ago… drove for over 50 years)… and now his liver has become enlarged and they fear that the leukemia may have spread there… so I have thought that from having to deal with all of their health problems and still having to take care of two of their children when this should be the time when they are resting and people are taking care of them I think they would be excellent candidates for the show

By Sheryl

May 16, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

What was paula’s motive for having an affair with corey…. just sex?? Heaven knows he doesn’t have any money and he is just plain ugly…… he must be packin something in his pants we can’t see…..

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Jack, I’ve contacted him, the BBB, the Sec of State Consumer Affairs office, the Fox Five I team and channel 11 but the problem is now that I won’t have a car after tomorrow. The way I found out about the safety issues was through a minor accident. When the body shop took it apart to repair it they found many underlying issues from a previous accident before I bought the car. I don’t have the additional money to get the other repairs fixed ($1000+) and it won’t be safe unless I do. But my rental is due back tomorrow because that’s when the initial repairs were do to be completed and again I don’t have the extra money to rent a car for the time it would take for the aforementioned people to respond.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Tim, I think so too, you should try it and see what happens.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Tim is my youngest son’s age. I think the Beatles were the greatest rock & roll group ever, bar none. Boy am I getting old. LOL

By Tim

May 16, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Lola… oh ok… I know who they are now… and yes VERY 80s lol hahahahaha… I saw that 40 year old guy on AI… that was almost as funny as William Hung :) I am right there with you though… I rarely buy any new music anymore… I honestly could not tell you the last time I bought a cd (although I may cave and buy Bo’s, Carrie’s, and/or Vonzell’s cds when they are released)… I have an ipod now so I just download a song at a time from itunes and I must say almost everything I buy is not current stuff… last songs I bought were ‘Got to be Real’ (cant remember the artist but classic disco song)… and ‘September’ by Earth, Wind, and Fire (one of the best groups ever!)

By Lyrazel

May 16, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

Ooooo inquiring minds want to know!

Ok, I must be the only one who does not know who Paula Abdul is/was, if she has suffered, if she has genuine deep emotional trauma in her career, and if she supports family tv, or has issues. Confess to say I have never watched Idol—not even when the debutant was running against the single mom—but my newspaper reported who won—on front page….just as they led off news stories about who won on the Apprentice.

Who is Hugh Grant? Well, I happen to know—only because—my husband went for a haircut in one afternoon, and the lady gave him this—do—Sk8ter Boy at 67. Um, she said it was the Hugh Grant look—shaved on the sides—mop on top.

PrimeTime? A news show? Isnt all TV news tabloid now? When you are involved in a war, have a civilian army being sent to 4-corners of world—any news show whose lead story is: Joe wins The Apprentice—is tabloid. When living on TV, the way to boost rating is by scandal—and whoever has the dirtier sexual laundry is flavor of the week. Thus, boosting ratings—this scandal helps the show gain an audience, just as Hugh Grant who couldnt get oral sex from an overpriced model girlfriend cruised Hollywood to find it—and for 25 bucks—saved his career from tanking.

Never let it be said Woman to Woman is news, Kimberly. Its fluff and that is what AJC thinks of our esteemed opinions. Fluff between the Jane Fonda-Elton John news reports.

LaShelle, new or used car? Check into GA lemon laws.

Are American prisons places to harvest organs? If someone is on death row—should they be harvested for organs? If they do not have AIDS or disease are they more valuable as doners should we allow the prison system to re-coup prison costs to taxpayers? Since more prisons are being run by private corporations—should they profit—or should the prisoners family—or victims family profit from organ selling?

By RS

May 16, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

Tim, my heart goes out to your grandparents; if anyone deserves a hand, they sure do. Lola: No, I didn’t see the tryouts, I don’t watch that. Uh, what did that 40-something guy look like? I’m wondering if that’s my friend..You’re so right about the most cd’s by new artists being purchased by younger consumers but talent is talent no matter how old the singer is. You must be referring to the rap/hip hop coming out now. It’s horrendous!! Give me my 60’s psychedelia/British invasion, 70’s classic rock & disco & 80’s punk/metal/new wave any day! Hey, anyone remember 80’s band A Flock Of Seagulls? I saw them last week for about my zillionth time.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

LaShelle… thanks… my mom and I are working on it… oh and I hope something works out with your car… wish I had ideas but I honestly have to say I know nothing about cars or anything to do with them

Jack… I never really got into any Beatles stuff… as for rock… I would have to say my favorite would be Fleetwood Mac… I think they are AWESOME… oh and age is only how you feel… I honestly think my mom is younger than me! (she is one crazy lady… would probably have to be to have me though lol)

By Lyrazel

May 16, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, were you told prior to buying the car that it was in an accident? Dealers are by law REQUIRED to disclose this information…if you ask…and maybe even if you did not ask…

By kimberly

May 16, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

I’m almost 40.. again. That’s almost DEAD! Thank goodness I can resist my urges to sing in public. I mean, it’s BAD ENOUGH that I even show my face outside the house! Geez what are people thinking when they pass 30 and still think they’re entitled to LIVE their lives? Hello? We’re only supposed to exist, pay bills, buy groceries, and chauffer our kids around. Good GOSH, don’t even THINK of expressing a talent. If you’re not a superstar by the age of 25, FORGET IT, and get back in the house where you belong!

By Renee

May 16, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

I agree with Shaunti Feldhahn. Paula should respond to those allegations. I like American Idol and Paula, but I think she did have some sort of relationship with Corey that went a little too far. Whatever his reasoning for bringing this information to the public, who cares, but as for Paula she has some explaining to do. I believe FOX and American Idol has asked her not to say anything until the season is over. In addition, I believe Corey got his heart broken in the process and decided to tell it all.

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

Good Morning, Everybody!

Paula shouldn’t have to explain anything. This national fascination with other people’s personal business is awful. While most of us will never be that ‘important’ as to rate being on the scandal channel (aka ET) I say glass, houses, stones! (This is also why my next house will be made of plexiglass )

DISCO and the 80’s are the BEST when it comes to dance music. In a city this large why is that we don’t have a good dance station? Miami has 93.1 which ROCKS! After the city killed Backstreet there isn’t anywhere left to kick it on the dance floor.

Jack and Kimberly…we’ve come a nation of sheeple. I’m surprised there isn’t a movement to for a new Declaration of Dependence…”We the Sheeple, in order to be led around by our noses,…”

Why don’t we ever see Shaunti and Diane go at it over a topic like “If male dominated cultures such as in India and Indonesia can elect female Prime Ministers, why is the U.S. unable to elect a female president or have significantly greater female participation in national leadership roles?”

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, no I wasn’t. I wasn’t told that there was frame damage either. I wasn’t told that my radiator was being held up by a CROOKED SCREW or that I just might have problems (blowing out at 60mph on the interstate) with my tires because of the damage. Nope, none of this information was disclosed by ED VOYLES HONDA ON COBB PARKWAY IN MARIETTA.

By AllAboutME

May 16, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

…has anyone seen the new marketing pix concerning the Rolling Stones new tour…tell me…is Keith Richards looking more and more like the 6-flags guy—or is Mick?

By Tim

May 16, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

Netbanker… 93.1 is an AWESOME station… used to listen to it all the time on the internet but the site is down right now… I hope the fix it soon!!! I cannot believe that Atl doesn’t have a station like that either… crazy crazy crazy

that would be a great topic for S and D to discuss

By RS

May 16, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, obviously I agree with you 100% about the problem of age-ism in our culture. Netbanker: Yes, I’m familiar with 93.1 in Miami; it’s great! LaShelle: I have 3 words of advice: CALL CLARK HOWARD!!!! (and best of luck) AllAboutMe: Your Rolling Stones observation cracked me up! You should submit that to the Living Vent!

By Jack

May 16, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this

The Stones will still be on tour after they have to get on stage with wheel chairs.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

RS I have but I have some time sensitivity issues.

By SUZAN

May 16, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

Oh brother who really cares? is this all you can come up with. Im ashamed you two think your serious journalist please can we not get a something with a little more backbone to it I could care less about entertainers lives most of them act like trash anyway

By RS

May 16, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Jack, at that point, they’ll literally be the ROLLING Stones! LaShelle: That can be a problem; I hope someone can help you; what you’re going through is so wrong.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

My theory on Keith Richards is that he died sometime in the early 80’s and they just prop him up like “weekend at bernie’s” with his guitar when they have to appear in public. I mean look at the guy. I’ve seen more attractive corpses.

LaShelle - good heavens! I’m glad you’re okay with your car going out like that as you cruise down the freeway! You definitely have a case against the dealership because I’ve also read that they are OBLIGATED to disclose any accidents that the car has been in. That’s going to be where you have a leg to stand on in your case.

kimberly - I wasn’t implying that 40-somethings and older shouldn’t live their lives. I was simply saying that AI has an age limit because they are in the business of selling music, and they know that the people who sell the most music are going to be those who are young and can relate to the young people who buy the new artist music. I’m pushing 40 myself, and trust me, I live my life plenty!

Tim - I think your grandparents are an IDEAL family for that show! Definitely pursue that!! Bless their hearts for all they do for their children.

RS - I went to see Cheap Trick, Def Lepard, KISS, Springsteen and REO Speedwagon all in the same year (about four years ago)! Talk about a trip down memory lane!

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

Thx RS, Just know, don’t EVER EVER EVER buy a car from ED VOYLES

By Lyrazel

May 16, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

LaShelle: Its called: Disclosure Law—I think, the dealer is required, if you ask, to show you the history of the car—and the accident repair history. I also think—you have a time-limit. However it all snakes down the toilet if you bought the car—AS IS.

Rolling Stones look quite mossy in places, AllAboutME. My friends wonder if they still have their own teeth—you see—heroin and cocaine—rot away tooth enamel—as these boomers age you will see a surge of denture packing hipsters come out on stage. No doubt there will be a surge in sales of Vasaline as hundreds of Boomers attending concerts this year try to get back into their leather britches.

Ah your concert season sponsered by Polident….

By Jack

May 16, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

Backstreet was closed for the same reason The Gold Club was, they didn’t pay the politicians enough $$$$. and this town wants to be like New York. Yeah Right!

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

I was in Hollywood, FL 2 weekends ago and had a great time ‘dancing’ in my car to the radio. I wish I had a stereo at my place there so I could record that station. One of the clubs kicked in some Depeche Mode and Eurasure and I hit the dance floor like nobody’s business. I haven’t been that sweaty from a dance floor workout in ages!

Ty isn’t THAT hot. The constant screaming thing works my nerves. You want hot carpenter..what about Carter on Trading Spaces?

By Stan

May 16, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Oh Backstreet, how I miss thee. At five a.m., the deejay would play the best dance music.

I hate that this city has a curfew. No large city should have a curfew. I went to New York recently, and didn’t know what to do with myself when the club was still jumping at 4 a.m.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

RS and Lola… thanks… I think they are pretty special people that deserve a lil break… my papa said the other day that he didn’t realize that growing old was going to be such hard work… about broke my heart

Jack… you are soooo right

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

My partner called Backstreet doomed as soon as The Dakota was built. It just stinks when people move into a neighborhood knowing what businesses are there and then work to close them down because of the disturbances. I also think it was part of a secret city plan to attempt to drive business to Underground. Suddenly clubs are being forced to close, but Underground can stay open late.

That place is a disaster waiting to happen. I’m surprised there haven’t been more shootings.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

Netbanker… I gotta disagree with ya… I have thought Ty to be the total hottie since his very first Trading Spaces days… Carter is cute… but I would take Ty any day… you can have Carter and Lola and I will share Ty ;)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, the GM of the dealershit I mean dealership said that Ga requires all used cars to be sold as it, however, they should still be held liable if they sold me a death trap, law or not. He said they only check to see if the car is “road safe” well mine WASN’T. He’d just better be glad no one got hurt cuz he’d have hell to pay if that had happened.

By Stan

May 16, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Forget the carpenter, give me one of the lawn cutting guys on Desperate Housewives. Jesse Metcalfe…good, googly, moogly.

By vince

May 16, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

This is very, very, very silly. Should she respond? Who knows, who cares? How can anyone form an opinion of this situation without knowing any facts? All we know is a guy who didn’t win and who hasn’t sold any albums has decided to make a claim at Ms. Abdul.

Big whoop-dee-doo.

By RS

May 16, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Lola: I’ve seen all those acts except for Def Leppard & Springsteen (& I grew up in NJ!). Netbanker: Ah yes, Depeche Mode & Erasure! I’m thinking you might also like Abba, Pet Shop Boys, Bronski Beat, New Order, Joy Division, Frankie Goes To Hollywood & uh, I forget their name but they did “You Spin Me Round”. Stan: A lot of bars in New Orleans are open 24 hours. I think it’s a great idea because it accommodates diverse schedules, creates more jobs & eliminates that “3AM gridlock”

By Jack

May 16, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about the guys being hot. I wish someone would take that bullhorn away from him and give him a pacifier. Nicole Kidman is one of my favorites. Yum Yum.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

Netbanker… I totally think they are just trying to force clubs to Underground… and there ain’t no way I am going around there at night… I rather enjoy living

By Tim

May 16, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

oh Stan you have a point there!!! which ever one of the two you don’t want I will take… I ain’t picky :)

By Jack

May 16, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Hey. Underground is fine if you bring a large firearm and don’t mind the smell of urine.

By Mark

May 16, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

Who cares?

By Glen

May 16, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

I’ve long wondered if this “Woman to Woman” feature was really serious or just a put-on. I think I know the answer now.

By Lyrazel

May 16, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, find an attorney specializing in Lemon Law and discuss if you have a case! You might—but then because you did not do your homework prior to buying said car (so sorry but you did not have it inspected before you purchased it, nor did you look up that car history) you might just end up shelling out repairs on this. I think the dealer you mentioned is getting sued by several consumers—btw. Call a lawyer to consult…and maybe lawyer will send a letter to say they are investigating your claim—and you might get some action or a response. Good Luck!

When people pay close to 500,000 for an apartment—loud clubs with post-pubesent teens looking for love in beer foam will loose out. Money will change any neighborhood. Underground is a fine place to have belligerent, littering, gun-toting drunks herded into…and nobody cares if they pee behind dumpsters….

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

Tim and Lola…have a good time with Ty! He seemed a lot more cute when he started on Trading Spaces. What about Paul the carpenter on Divine Design? He’s not too bad either. What I really want is Candace Olsen to come to my house with Chico the Electrician. I have a basement and master suite that could use her tasteful touch and Chico’s wizzardry with all things electrical.

RS…you have my musical tastes pretty much nailed. Don’t forget Book of Love, Annie Lennox, Cindi Lauper, Billy Idol. Dancing with Myself is going to be the recessional to my funeral. Ohhh..got it! Dead or Alive was the group who sang that.

Tim…I’m not going down their either. I’m waiting for some drunk who is on the down low to get caught by his girlfriend flirting with some gay boy and it’s just gonna get UGLY from there. As my friend from Charlotte said..it won’t be long before you see a gay boy on the sidewalk with a hole in his hairdo. And I hope your pickiness (or lack thereof) is limited to the yard boys and not in general.

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

I have been away from Atlanta too long. (Moved to Dallas,TX in January 2004). When did Backstreet close? It was always fun to go there after the other bars closed and watch the sun come up.

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Jack…good taste! Nicole Kidman is classy and gorgeous.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, I did do my homework but for some odd reason the accident was not on the initial Carfax I printed. But when I printed another one this week all of a sudden it was there and it said “possible frame damage” on it. What a coincidence, huh. But thanks for the advice.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Tim - I will gladly share Ty. I’ll take the top half and you can have the bottom half! :)

And I understand what you mean about it breaking your heart regarding your grandparents. My parents are in their early 70’s and both are still working (they have to). They don’t have any adult children to take care of, though. So their situation isn’t anything like your grandparents. But I do wish they were able to retire like all their friends have, and just enjoy life, rather than having to work every day. It makes me sad sometimes.

RS - the group was “Dead or Alive” and I actually saw them in concert in ‘87! Your list of dance music groups really brought back some great memories of my wilder days of drug-induced all night dancing! LOL

Underground is nothing but a ghetto underground, and anyone who goes there is a fool. They just need to accept that Underground is dead and won’t ever be brought back to the wonderful place it used to be.

Ty didn’t always yell like that. He was much quieter on Trading Spaces back when he was just getting his start. Okay, not a LOT quieter, but he didn’t have that stupid bullhorn.

Lyrazel - LOL about your “Sponsored by Polident” comment! When I saw KISS in concert a few years ago, it wasn’t always a pretty sight to see them in their leather suits, makeup and platform shoes. But it was still an awesome show! And the people in that audience were definitely on the upper end of 40 and 50 years old, but rocking out like nobody’s business!!!

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Damn I feel young! I have no idea who you guys are talking about. In ‘87 I was 5 years old! But I still won’t go to Underground…

By Tim

May 16, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Netbanker… I would have to pass on Paul the hunky carpenter… however I think Candace has FABULOUS taste… one of the very few designers I have seen that I would actually trust to decorate a room in my home

I can definitely see that happening at Underground… or someone will just get really drunk and decide he doesn’t like the homos down there and will decide to start crap… or I can see one of the lil homos getting a little too drunk and hitting on a guy that obviously isnt too happy getting hit on by a guy… but whatever happens I know I won’t be around to see it… which is a shame cus I would love to see Charlie Brown

and yes my lack of pickiness was ONLY for the yard boys on Desperate Housewives… real life guys are still gonna have to wait in line HAHAHAHAHA… like my mama always told me ‘suga now ya know ain’t nobody gonna want to buy the whole truck when ya giving the ice cream away for free’… best advice she ever gave me ;)

By Tim

May 16, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

Lola… that sounds like a good plan lol… and you are right… he was somewhat quieter… I could do without the bull horn

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Mitch…Backstreet closed some time last fall. I loved going there if only to people watch. What an interesting mix it always was! What part of Dallas?

I used to spend a fair amount of time there on business. Loved staying at The Adolphus!

Lola…I miss those days of all night dancing. Never did need the drugs back then. Now it’s all the same house music with the same thump, thump, thump beat and no words to the songs. The song Go West! will always make me think of Fantasy Fest in Key West, Dancing with Myself equals school in France, Pretty Boys and Pretty Girls is beach volleyball on Poodle Beach in Rehoboth, DE. How are kids today supposed to remember special times by the music when it all sounds the same?

By RS

May 16, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

That’s right, Dead or Alive; thanks, you guys! Lola, I saw them too, in the early 90’s. They were fun! Such a shame about your parents; well, blame all the stupid social programs that reward baby-popping scum while retirees suffer, but then y’all know how I feel about that. Netbanker, “Dancing WIth Myself” is my jam, honey! Oh you are so right. The rap/hip hop of today is nothing but monotonous droning & whining & yes, it does all sound alike.

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

LaShelle…thank you everso for illuminating the maturity (read AGE) of the majority of posters here. I’m sure they appreciate it as much as I.

I do suggest that you gain some appreciation for the musical groups we’ve been discussing. They are as much a changing force of music as the 50’s Rock n’ Roll era groups. And you’ll not find any better music for moving on the dance floor since the 80’s.

Did anyone see Margaret Cho’s HBO special when she does the line about being old and in ‘the home’ and asking for ‘Hungry Like the Wolf’? She had me rolling thinking about that.

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

I live in Lewisville which is just north of Dallas of I-35E.

I miss the clubs in Atlanta. Do I understand correctly that they opened a Gay Bar at Underground? If so they are definately asking for trouble. Hoedowns was always my favorite. Did enjoy the eye candy at Swinging Richards though.

By norman

May 16, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

personnally, I was infatuated with Mr.Whipple and wanted to “squeeze his charmin”……

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, I definately appreciate older music. I’m not much of a fan of alot of music out now believe me. Now it’s not about talent, it’s about marketing…if you look good in tight clothes, you’re in! I miss the days of EnVogue, Boyz II Men, Anita Baker, Kelly Price, Patty LaBelle, etc. I really don’t care how rich a rapper is and how much “bling” he can wear without falling to the ground and honestly I really don’t care what kind of underwear they have on so tell me, WHY DO THEY INSIST ON SHOWING ME!

Just because I’m young, don’t peg me like that :o) Believe me, I have an old soul and I’m not your typical 23 year old.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

Mitch… Charlie Brown’s caberet has moved down there… supposed to look like an actual caberet from what I heard (go figure)… and there is a club called F.U.C. I think it is a straight club but I think they have a gay night… not sure though I can’t keep track of Atlanta nightlife I am usually in bed when ever else is ‘bustin hell wiiiiiide open’ (as my nana would say)… my sister and mom came up to visit last year… my sister wanted to take my mom to Swinging Richards… I told her to have fun with that but I didn’t think I would be taking my mother there lol

By RS

May 16, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

They’ve tried to “revitalize” Underground a number of times but to no avail. Let’s face it, it will always be a crime-pit. That’s a shame because it has potential, it’s just the scuzzy element that ruins it. I stupidly let my husband talk me into us spending New Years Eve there & it was horrible. Too crowded, too rowdy & there were a couple of shooting incidents, I believe. Neither of us has been back since.

By RS

May 16, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, I was surprised to know you’re only 23; you seem so mature & that’s a compliment. I am definately feeling you on what you said about marketing, looking good in tight clothes etc, as I stated earlier today when I said the whole AI thing is more about looks/youth/image than actual talent.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

RS… I had jury duty about a month ago… I ate lunch at the Johnny Rockets at underground… then I decided I wanted to see where the clubs were… I was nervous as all get out walking around there… and that was in the middle of the day… ain’t no way I would there at night unless I got to use the Pope Mobile

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

I knew it was all going to hell in a handbasket when J Lo started singing-and selling.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Thanks RS :o)

By Lola

May 16, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

NEWS ALERT!

Wilbanks was on her way to see an ex-lover. My husband just sent me this link…

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156616,00.html

By Jack

May 16, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Norm!!!!

By Lola

May 16, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

LaShelle - I wouldn’t have guessed you were that young either, judging by your posts. You have a very good head on your shoulders and you do strike me as an old soul. I’m very glad you’ve joined our blog. :)

norman, you’re late today. Have you been lurking or did you really just get here?

I guess I got all the partying out of my system in my 20’s because now I’m just happy to be a home-body (especially with a 1 year old). But my oats have been long since sewn, so I don’t feel like I missed out on anything. I haven’t heard of any of the clubs you mentioned, but I haven’t really done much clubbing in a long, long time. I’m not proud of all the drugs I did back then (and believe me, i did a LOT of them - LSD mostly), but I can say that it was a learning experience and not one that I’d ever want to do over again. And I think I can safely say that my daughter won’t be able to pull much over on me, since I know all the signs and strategies of hiding it from the folks.

By James

May 16, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I am normally into this, but this subject just sux!

YAWN

By RS

May 16, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Tim, honey, it’s not so much Underground that scares me, it’s riding the MARTA train FROM Underground! You get every creepy panhandler on there & you’re a captive audience. It was REALLY creepy for me last year when my hair was extremely blonde…

By Jack

May 16, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen the walls breath and the trees move without any wind. We all do live in a yellow submarine.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Thank you too Lola I’m glad to be here, it’s good for venting about societies ills, lol.

By norman

May 16, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

I did not mean that in a gay way…. maybe Paula and this kid used to go to Catholic church together? confession is good for the soul….

By Tim

May 16, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

Lola… hoedowns is a gay country line dancing club (there is something for everyone in Atlanta)… and Swinging Richards is a strip club where the men wear their birthday suits… hence the name of the place ;)

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you want to look at it) my days of going out to party in the bars have passed. I have been out in Dallas twice since moving here. You don’t think 2 in 17 months is too much do ya? Although I do like the area. The majority of the gay clubs in Dallas are in 1 area so you can park and walk to all of them. It is not an area you are scared to walk through either.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

RS… very good point there… that can be very scary!

By Lola

May 16, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Jack - My favorite thing to do was to buy a loaf of white bread, take it out of the wrapper and smash it end to end together with my hands, and then put it down and watch it move as it expanded back out. Talk about a cheap trip! LOL

You’re right, LaShelle. This blog has been my venting forum on many occassions! And even when the convo turns somewhat ugly, it is a glimpse into the minds of what I consider to be a good mix of middle America, a look at both good and bad.

James! Forget that lame-O topic and come on our new topics ride! Glad to see you! :)

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Lola, That’s what I like about it, do you honestly think I could sit with my peers and have these types of conversations? Not a chance!

By Lola

May 16, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Tim - LOL @ Swinging Richards!!! What a GREAT name for a place like that! Classic. Hoedowns actually sounds like a lot of fun. I always wanted to learn line dancing but could never find someone to do it with. And you’re right. There is something for everyone here, no doubt.

norman - it only took you two posts to get onto the topic of religion. And your segway was quite impressive, btw. :)

By RS

May 16, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Lola! Your “white bread experience” cracked me up & put me in mind of a memory I need to share; once, in my partying days when I was feeling REALLY good, I watched a tropical fish defecating; the process took 1/2 hour & I found it quite fascinating; honey, you wouldn’t have been able to pull me away from that fishtank. And here’s the official R.S. method of determining if the stuff you’re smoking is worthwhile; if you’re using the bathroom & have this paranoia that the toilet was snatched out from under you! I’m sure this was way too much info for a lot of you!

By Lola

May 16, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

I think it does us all good to engage in convos with eachother, even if our views are total opposites. I just would never have the opportunity to talk with this many different kinds of people with this many different experiences and opinions. I find it extremely enriching.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

LaShelle… I am right there with you girl… there are VERY few people our age you can carry on an intelligent conversation with… that is probably why my bf is 30 and the majority of my friends are between late 20s to 40s

Lola… oh yes… if nothing else they were creative with the name lol… I have never been to Hoedowns either but it does sound like it would be fun… last time I went to a country bar was in Orlando… it is called :08 (eight seconds) and a toothless girl hit on me… so I get a little nervous with the country places though lol

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Hoedowns is really a fun place and they do (or did) offer dance lessons most every night except Friday & Saturday nights. I always enjoyed going there because you could always find someone to dance with and the crowd was generally a nice crowd. I used to close the place down all the time. Now, I have trouble to staying awake til 11:00 much less going out and partying half the night.

By Lola

May 16, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

I hear ya, Mitch. I can’t even remember the last time I was up long enough to catch the 10:00 news on Fox! Maybe once my daughter is a bit older, I’ll be able to go out and venture into the world of line dancing. I think it would be a hoot!

:08 is a term I’m very familiar with, Tim. I’m from Houston and my Dad and I went to the rodeo every year when I was a kid. I loved the whole experience, even the funky smells and rednecks. It all just enhanced the rodeo for me. And talk about a hoedown - I saw Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton, Crystal Gayle and Kenny Loggins perform there! LOL!

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Tim, lol…for a hot second the person I considered to be my best friend was my age, but she chose a guy over me so I guess we never really were friends, who has time for that drama anyway?

By Mitch

May 16, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

I live in the Central Time zone. All the TV shows I like come on an hour earlier. We said when we moved out here that it would be nice because now we could watch the 10:00 shows we liked and still get to bed by 10:00. I am so thankful for Tivo because I usually doze off by 9:30 or 9:45. It has been awhile since I actually saw the end of the show with using Tivo.

By Tim

May 16, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Mitch and Lola… don’t feel bad… if I am able to stay up later than 11:00 than that is an accomplishment lol

Lola… I saw Kenny Rogers getting out of a limo and going into a restaurant off oc Cheshire Bridge a couple weeks ago… and I LOVE Dolly… my aunt lives in Nashville… went to visit her about 3 weeks ago… we had talked about going to the Grand Ole Opry but decided not to… come to find out Dolly was there that weekend… I was like NOOOOOO lol… I won’t make that mistake twice

LaShelle… amen to that! no time for drama :)

By Tim

May 16, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Mitch… that is why I want to get Tivo!!! I never get to see any show if it comes on after 10… I have to watch all the Law and Order re-runs during the week because I cannot stay up late enough to watch the new shows during the week lol… sooooo sad hahahaha

By AllaboutME

May 16, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

…one squished wonder bread together and watched it spring back…and another watched a fish defecate…hmmm..norman…ever gone to a store and squeezed potty paper?…they stare at you…and if you keep doing it…they make you buy it…or leave…empty handed…but feeling…fresh-

By RS

May 16, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, I can really feel for you; I’ve had female (what I thought were) friends (?!?) kick me to the curb as soon as some GUY looked their way. You are so right, hon. She was not really your friend & it’s HER loss. True, you don’t need that drama.

By RS

May 16, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Lola, Tim & Mitch: My husband’s 39 & can stay up till 4am, no problem. Of course, he’s like a bear with a sore backside all the next day (LOL!)

By Jack

May 16, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

RS, What did he do to get the sore backside? (or rather, what did you do) LOL

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

The kicker is RS and Tim that she kicked me to the curb for her lover, not her husband! ROFL But that’s a lllooonnnngggg story.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

Now that I’m old and married , I can do what I need to do and still get to sleep by 1:00am. (but usually its more like 10:00)

By RS

May 16, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

LaShelle: The plot thickens! You DEFINATELY don’t need her. Jack, that’s an expression, it means to be in a foul mood. (Get your mind out of the gutter…LOL!)

By Jack

May 16, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

I’m craving some of that she-crab. Tried caviar and I think it tastes like sardine jelly.

By Jack

May 16, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

My mind is always in the gutter….Sorry.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Ewww Jack, lol

By RS

May 16, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

Ewwwwww, Jack, I’ll probably never be able to eat caviar again. The only thing I can think of that’d be nastier than sardines would be sardine jelly; can’t even imagine anything that vile.

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Anyone have a car they want to donate to a single mom/student/employee?

By RS

May 16, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

That’s ok, Jack, I wake up with my mind in the gutter. The only way I can clean up my thoughts is to think about food, but that leads me to imagine licking whipped cream off…oh, never mind….I’m SO glad I get to leave work soon!

By RS

May 16, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Wow. Looks like LaShelle & I had a “girlie moment” the exact same time about the exact same thing! LaShelle, wish I could help but you deserve more than my raggedy KIA (Kill It ALready! LOL)

By Stephanie

May 16, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

Paula, You go Girl!!!!!!!!!!

By LaShelle

May 16, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

ROFL, thanks RS…it’s the thought that counts.

By Netbanker

May 16, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

Hey kids! See I didn’t miss entirely too much while spending 3 hours on conference calls.

LaShelle I’m very impressed with you and get what you’re talking about. 15 years ago I was an old soul in a 23 y.o. body. And you are sooooo right about the marketing over substance in music these days.

Lola…Swinging Richards is FUN…for a while. Then I get to the point where I’m thinking it’s all just a giant tease and I ain’t gonna get any of that anyway. I have a very dear friend in his mid-50s and swear he has more energy than any 20 yo I know…and it’s all drug free. I don’t party all the time, but it feels damn good every now and again to blow it out!

By RS

May 16, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: Your friend reminds me of a friend of mine. He’s 64, drug-free, vegetarian. He surfs, skateboards & it’s not unusual to find him (side by side with me!) in the mosh pit at a punk show. Bless his heart!

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 07:26 AM | Link to this

Do anyone ever wonder where Dan Rather went when he left CBS. Looks like he is working for Newsweek now.

By rocky

May 17, 2005 07:57 AM | Link to this

Dan Rather is definitely at Newsweek. And you know, I don’t see why it’s okay for the arabs to burn our flag, desecrate our land and our people, and yet, there is an outcry about the Koran being put on a toilet in order to intimidate terrorist prisoners. Don’t like it? TOO F-ing BAD! Stop beheading our people and burning our flags and flying planes into our buildings, and maybe we’ll be more willing to keep your crappy little book off the toilet lid. Until then, shut up and accept the fact that you’re lucky that’s all we’re doing.

By Stan

May 17, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this

Just finished reading an article on Islam. The “insurgents” feel that they will win because they love death, and that their opponents are soft and degenerate because they prefer life. It makes one think.

By norman

May 17, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

The Bush crowd is trying to make Newsweek the culprit when it is Pentagon policy which is the culprit. Typical Republican-Fascist technique.

Personally I have no problem with flushing the Koran down the toilet so long as the Bible goes down as well.

By Mercy

May 17, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

Lola, the Newsweek “article” was retracted by the magazine AFTER the government told it to. I want to know the truth about the Koran incident, I don’t want to be served a PC version of what happened.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

Mercy - that’s fine that you want to know what happened. I’m sure a lot of people would. I just don’t see what there was to gain by printing it, even if it were true. I mean, these are terrorists who want to kill Americans that are being interrogated at Gitmo. I think the means they’ve used for interrogation (which can’t be defined as torture by any stretch of the imagination) are much more humane than any treatment our people get from them. As rocky pointed out, they don’t hesitate to burn our flags, spread hate for us in our own country and abroad, behead our citizens and plot terrorist attacks on us. And while I’m not a t*t-for-tat person like he is, I do agree that putting a Koran on a toilet lid is a pretty minor interrogation tactic, IF it even happened. I have to question the motives of Newsweek, because it seems that they are more interested in spreading hatred for the USA than they are in writing about the good things going on in Iraq.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

norman - I actually agree with you. It wouldn’t bother me one bit if the arabs flushed a bible down the toilet. They could flush 100 of them and I wouldn’t care. It wouldn’t make it any less holy to me, and I certainly wouldn’t condemn anyone to death for doing so. I’d rather them do that than cut off the heads of our people.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

All is fair in love & war. They want us dead. What rights did they show those whose heads were removed and broadcast for the world to see? Bleeding hearts, go over there and see how you are treated. Then tell us we need to be more compassionate.

By DB

May 17, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

Come on! This is just another cheap ploy by “American Idol” to get cheap publicity. It’s just like the voting leaks of the past. They’re nothing more than clever “manipulations” that put “American Idol” in the forefront. It’s not worth the time and effort to discuss. It’s TV! Yes, I’m a hippocrate for taking the time to post a comment!

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Well here’s my vent for the day…why the hell are we over there anyway when we have enough problems at home, sure Afghanistan we have a reason, but Iraq, still don’t see it! Maybe we should take care of the problems we have here FIRST!

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Newsweek, apparently, is a liberal rag and wanted to join in on the parade of those trying to bring down the current administration. Since they cannot come up with any thing better they seek to destory. It only shows what depths they will go to. Like I said before Liberals are like 2 year old children trying anything to get their way. Flushing the Bible down the toilet doesn’t make it any less true.

By DB

May 17, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

For those of you complaining about GSU scholarships to illegals, why did you leave out the fact that our public school system put them through high school or more for free? That should irritate you even more given the fact that the GSU scholarships are private instead of being funded by taxpayers. One thing should be noted. These kids did extremely well in our high schools, and they are going to college to become even more productive to society. Many of our native kids simply waste our money attending public school, and it’s not like illegals evade the tax system as they usually have a fake SSI number, which requires them to pay all the same taxes you and I pay, not to mention sales tax. Many people need to get off their high horses and start doing the jobs that illegals do for less money. Until then, your complaining is useless. Illegals, whether you like it or not, make our economy better because they do a lot of work for less pay, which our greedy corporations love. And our government will do little to stop border jumping simply because of that fact.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

DB, You know what that was such an ignorant comment and on any other day I wouldn’t even acknowlege it. But today I’m pissed and in rare form so here ya go! (Just remember you asked for it) ILLEGAL lets start with that fact alone! ILLEGAL aliens take money from our economy about 90.4 MILLION dollars a year while AMERICANS struggle on a daily basis to make ends meet!! You (and I say you because you obviously are one or you wouldn’t be so ignorantly defending the concept of illegality) don’t spend the money you make here you send back to good ol’ Mexico. Do you know what Mexico’s third largest income is (for the entire country)?? MONEY SENT FROM ILLEGALS IN THE US And if it’s so damn good to be here, what the hell is so hard about doing it the right way and becoming legal?? Please, that was the most ignorant comment I’ve ever heard, including those from norman!!

By DB

May 17, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

Our exact point, Jack, don’t go over there and see what they do to us, like we did with a few hundred thousand troops. According to them, we are invading their country. Again, we have started something we can’t finish, and we’ve created more hate toward us. All of which are against the reasoning against the war on terror in the first place. What would happen if they invaded our country? Last I checked, Iraq has no WMD’s, and North Korea has increased they’re nuclear arsenal in the past few years while we’re saving the world from Iraq. Iraq was a threat to us halfway across the Earth when we rolled over their government in about five minutes, not to mention without any credible evidence and any real allies? What’s really going on here? Can you say strategic oil reserves?

By norman

May 17, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Bruce: I guess we’ll have to flush you down.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

DB, I can agree with that statement…you’re slowly redeeming yourself.

By Ms Chan

May 17, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

After reviewing all information presented…I believe Cory. I think BOTH are definitely wrong for what is taking place now. Sure, I believe Paula “hooked up” with this young man and provided professional advice to stay in the running…and even though it was to no avail, what about the other contestants that the judges voted off that would have at least made it through to possible additional levels, but did not because Cory took their place. I think he is immature and selfish for even coming out with this story now (nonetheless, I still think it is true). There is nothing worse than a man scorned. And I am ashamed at Paula for making these foolish choices. Age difference has nothing to do with it, but can you at least be a better judge of character…for God’s sake why did you just pick another young man off the street…why a contestant?? How messy can it get?! But I am also like other that have listed comments, there are more important issues to address in this society/this world, then whether Paula Abdul put a whip appeal on young Corey. More importantly, who chose her as a JUDGE!!

By Jack

May 17, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

We should flush DB also. (He must have played hookie from school)

By DB

May 17, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Thank you for your assumptions, but I’m a native born U.S. citizen, and I have no Mexican heritage. Let’s keep things a little more professional. Maybe some supposedly take 90.4 million(arbitrary number without real proof) while others contribute billions. Take a look at our road contruction, house builders, cooks, etc. Do you see a lot of Americans? No, Americans want to get paid a lot of money for little work. And no, they cut costs for employers so employers make more money. You should be more mad about companies going overseas for labor. At least immigrants come hereand pay taxes in the form of salex tax(most even income taxes under another name). I am a struggling American! Deadbeat Americans are the real drag on society. I don’t have a cell phone, a fancy car, a fancy house, etc. I’m not supporting Illegal Immigration, but I just don’t like it when people bad talk a mass of individuals who work very hard simply to make their lives better, and ours with cheaper prices because companies save money, which gets passed on to us. I would rather them get here legally, but the system makes that practically impossible. I’m sure you’re a hardworking American, but illegals are the least of our worries. Oh, and the only money I send to Mexico is when I guy a car, shirt, pants, tomatoes, and many other products that are now made in Mexico because most Americans won’t do menial jobs for little pay and companies can make more money by importing goods. If anything we should push for making the government make it easier for immigrants to become legal. But please don’t knock immigrants.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

DB, I don’t know immigrants, after all this country was founded on the basis of immigration. But I do know illegals for many reasons. Lets start with health care costs, public hospitals are required to treat even if the person is uninsured or even ILLEGAL, that costs millions. Then lets go to the ILLEGAL welfare recipents, that costs millions more. Then lets go to the 730,000 misplaced American jobs, by now I think we’re in the BILLIONS. Then there’s your issues of jobs that we won’t take. Maybe it’s because we know we can’t live on that salary. It’s already bad enough that to survive you have to be pretty well off or you have to have two incomes. Why is that acceptable? Probably because the developer already has his three story mansion in west hell somewhere. And by the way, go to google.com and type in illigal aliens and you’ll find ALL of my statistics to be true, like it or not. Let me ask you this, if your boss came to you and said he would pay you half what you’re making now would you take it?? HELL NO! What if he then turned around and said to an illegal alien, “well you can have the job and he’s fired!” How would you feel then?

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

If Iraq had no WMD’s what was it they bombed Iran with? What about all those Iraq’s that were killed with WMD’s? If he killed his own people with WMD’s what makes you think he wouldn’t use them on anyone else?

Flushing me won’t make the Bible any less true either, Norman. When will you learn you cannot win. God is still in control and it doesn’t matter if you like it or not.

By steve

May 17, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

Who cares about Paula Abdul and whoever this other guy is? The bigger issue is - Why is this “news” taking up space in any newspaper?

By DB

May 17, 2005 10:47 AM | Link to this

Jack, I appreciate your support, but you can’t earn a Masters degree playing hookie. Go ahead and flush me, but I’ll be like that one piece that just doesn’t go down. It’s amazing how much people think they know about someone just by their comments! I am glad this forum now has something on it that’s worth discussing. And I do thank you guys for the stimulation of thought! Seriously, lets do away with the personal insults and get an intelligent discussion going.

By norman

May 17, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

What does that mean, Bruce, God is in control? What evidence do you have over the last five thousand years, or two thousand if you want the Christian dispensation? What has God done to show he is in control? Baloney, I say. Sorry, correctly that is spelled bologna.

If God were a CEO he would long since have been let go.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

DB you are so special. Bless your heart.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Welcome aboard the blog, DB!

I will refrain from any name calling or Bush-bashing, as that is really not my style. But I would like to know why Presidente Fox doesn’t do more to encourage his people not to come into our country illegally. Actually, I know why. We are his country’s bread and butter, and rather than taking responsibility for his own country’s productivity and economy, he would rather just let his northern neighbors be saddled with the job of finding places for all these illegals. I understand that people want a better life for themselves and their families, and I harbor no resentment for those who are willing to go through the proper channels to do so. But I have a major problem with those who come here illegally, drain our tax dollars (yes, some of them pay taxes, but they use a great deal more than they put back in), and then send our American dollars down to Mexico. That’s not really contributing to our economy, but it sure is taking money out of it.

I’d also like to know why there’s such a double standard when it came to Presidente Fox making a blatantly racist statement, but he gets a pass from all the black leaders for it. He said that Mexican workers will take the jobs that “even the blacks won’t do”. If a white person or conservative had said those words, there would be protests and hell to pay. Why is it okay for him to say that?

By Lola

May 17, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

If God were a CEO, he may have been long since let go, but he’d sure have gotten one fantastic severance package! :)

God is in control, norman. And he doesn’t have to prove that. Christians know it through our faith and the strength we find through him.

Okay, have a field day with that one. I know you will.

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

You must work at Burger King Norman, becuase you sure like to have it your way. Go ahead, have it your way, do whatever you want, be whatever you wish to be, but remember we tried to tell you. As a man with ALL the answers why would you ask a simpleton like me what that means. Remember I am just a brainless redneck.

By Ben

May 17, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

I think the point some of you are missing is the very key word that we call ILLEGAL. We don’t care that they take the jobs, we don’t care that they are here, we just care that they do it illegally. Because they are not legal, they are not accounted for.

Yes a number of illegal aliens pay taxes and don’t even get refunds. I read somewhere the IRS owed billions of tax dollars in tax returns to filers that were probably illegals. But the real taxpayers still get hit with the medical and welfare bills. Not to mention the crime.

And the truth of the matter is, if they were legal, they would still do the so-called menial jobs because.

By DB

May 17, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, First of all, thanks for toning it down. I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not knocking your data, I’m knocking the source of data from which you quote. Now that you mention medical costs, my wife works in a clinic where many illegals get care. In her experience, the illegals always pay straight up cash on all visits, and the American counterparts complain that they have to pay $20 for a Doctors visit when they’re on the slide rule income-sensitive pay. They claim they can’t afford it when their wearing Hilfiger and all the expensive brands of clothes, $150 sneakers, and have a cell phone. I find it hard to believe it’s not that way in many places since the other 5 locations(clinics) she manages have the same things going on. If my boss did say they were letting me go because of that situation you mentioned, I would either tell him I would work for less, or I would ask him to give me a chance to work even harder. Or ultimately I would find another job, especially if I were desperate. However, my boss would never say that because I work so hard that I simply could not be replaced by an illegal that can barely speak English. I used to be very poor, and I’ve worked hard to get out of it. Also, since I have an education, there aren’t many illegals that will take my place. However, if we make it easier for illegals to become legal, they can’t settle for the less pay, and companies would have to give them benefits, insurance, wages, etc. And they couldn’t coerce them to work in terrible conditions for little pay in fear of being deported. Then immigrants would be paid more, which would level the playing field, and they would go home because finding a job here wouldn’t be so easy. Also, when people get paid less, it’s not all that bad for the economy because things get cheaper(or no one can afford many products). They definitely do need to slow immigration down, and much can be done to do that. But the government won’t do it because illegal immigration is too profitable for the big corporations. Many countries in the past have built borders that are almost impervious. Being a supervisor myself, I know that most Americans(in the lower class) have a terrible sense of entitlement and are, quite honestly, lazy. And no, don’t assume I hire illegals. Our public school system(another topic altogether) instills incompetance and laziness along with a sense of entitlement. I was taught to work very hard and to respect authority when I was young, and we just don’t have that anymore. All this data that the “desk jockeys” come up with is being contradicted in real life. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Go to medical clinics and take your own data as to how many Mexicans pay and how many don’t pay. You may be surprised. At any rate, I’m glad you’re feeling better. I sensed that I caused a spike in your blood pressure earlier.

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

I can think of no single greater threat to American democratic principles than the DEATH of the “free press.” For years now it’s been choked and strangled. Now it’s DEAD. Some of you are old enough to remember how we scoffed at the Soviet TASS. In school we learned how their government controlled their media and news, there was no free press, and the people were brainwashed because they didn’t know any better. WE are so much BETTER than that, we thought. HAHAHAHA! Welcome to your cold war nightmare. It’s REAL now. Only the “cold war” has been replaced by your President’s Texas Hold ‘Em version of NUK-U-LAR poker. GOOD LUCK with that one, folks! Your last bastion of protection from government tyranny is DEAD. D-E-A-D. You will NEVER know the truth.

My efforts were in vain. I’m done. BYE!

By Ben

May 17, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

There is no double standard for Fox, what he said was true. And if you would of said it, it would still be true.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Amen to that Ben. What pisses me off the most is that I’m absolutely positive that if there were 100 black men standing on Powder Springs, Buford Hwy or wherever else they stand, the paddywagon would have a field day. Why is that so different for them?

By Missytoo

May 17, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Harold can’t see plain logic due to his hatred of all things liberal. By the way Harold, how do you KNOW Paula DID anything? You sound so sure. Are you a personal aquaintance of hers?

By norman

May 17, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Vicente Fox is part of the semi-Europeanized elite in Mexico which rules the masses of Indians. They won’t let go of their dominance of help the masses, preferring to send them north to the United States. Mexico’s elite is corrupt, selfish, fascistic (whatever names they might give themselves) and in cahoots with American business which wants cheap labor. Mexico needs a real revolution. There is where we should instigate relgime change, but it won’t be liked by the business elite here.

By Brian2

May 17, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t care how hard working the illegals are…I’m sick of them bringing the third world here. I’m sick of my fire fighter neighbor telling me about all the meth labs that are being broken up on Buford Highway, I’m sick of Carlos selling drugs out of his tricked-out SUV on my residential street because he thinks it’s quiet, I’m sick of the gang graffiti all over Buford Highway and N. DRuid Hills where I live, and I’m sick of going 15 miles an hour in a 35 mile per hour lane behind a smelly van loaded with 30 ladders and ten mexicans. You are right DB the ones that like it are the employers getting rich off of cheap labor but the last time I looked housing prices weren’t falling because of these savings. Call me a xenophobe, anti-mexican, or whatever..I don’t care. I’m sick of ‘em.

By norman

May 17, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Yes, Lola and Bruce: I do know one hell of a lot more than you poor excuses for human beings. I know because God himself told me he doesn’t exist, didn’t write the bible, doesn’t give a fig about you rapture-maddened lunatics, and didn’t ever have a son he sent to be crucified down here.

By rocky

May 17, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

Tommy Hilfiger, ey? Well that leaves little mystery about the color of those who are complaining about a co-pay at the clinic as they yack on their cell phones in their $150 shoes. Can’t say I’m all that surprised. What does surprise me is this sense of “entitlement” that many of them seem to have. How are they entitled to anything? They don’t work, they aren’t educated, they do nothing but collect that welfare check and impregnant single, slutty easy girls, who then pop out baby after illigitimate baby. How that entitles anyone to anything is beyond me. All it should entitle them to is living under a bridge and a life spent sleeping on the street.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

Ben - I’m not saying that what he said isn’t true. There are a lot of things that are true but aren’t allowed to be said because it’s not PC, and when they ARE said (Bill Cosby is a perfect example), even when they’re true, there is hell to pay. I’m just wondering why Fox isn’t being held to the same standards as everyone else, that’s all.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

DB, First, don’t be so cocky, I was already pissed before you made your ignorant remark and I have worked in a hospital before so I know what I’m talking about. Second, I’m considered “lower class” and I don’t have any sense of entitlement. Matter of fact, I work, go to school full time and raise a child on my own. It just pisses me off to see that I have to bust my A*S to get the gov’t to even blink my way and they just walk in and get whatever they want. Next, if people getting paid less makes the economy better than why hasn’t that worked yet? It takes two incomes now to support a household and many reports show that salaries are not increasing with inflation in fact, minimum wage has been the same since I was 15 and has been voted to stay that way a few times. Like I said, it just pisses me off to see what I work hard as hell for get handed to someone that’s not even supposed to be here.

By norman

May 17, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Rocky: are you saying that blacks are immoral and have babies for welfare checks? Are you casting aspersions on our wonderful Afro-American fellow citizens? I am surprised at you, such an upright American patriot.

So you know what do down heah? We just let them shoot one another, keeps us safe.

By DB

May 17, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

All in all, there are several options:

Maybe all options should be implemented.

1. Seal the borders. It is quite possible, and it will solve many problems. There are current thousands of miles of open borders.

2. Make things better in Mexico so people won’t need to come over the border. Now that is a much bigger task.

3. Push for legislation for stiff fines for companies that hire illegals.

My whole point is that immigrants are simply seeking a better life, and if I were a Mexican, I would probably do the same(and so would you). We should be more angry at the government and corporations for allowing it to happen or making it happen when it is clearly possible to stop it or significantly reduce it. Let’s build the “Great Wall of the United States”. Most immigrants come in by plane though. You don’t see our government raiding construction sites and meat factories, do you? Maybe we should. What ever happened to the fear of terrorists crossing the border? Obviously, our government called a bluff there, too. As long as hiring immigrants is profitable, it will be a problem.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

Oh norman, you make me chuckle. How did God talk to you if He doesn’t exist? Things that make you go hmmmmmm….

I’m actually not rapture-maddened at all. I enjoy my life here on earth and I plan to live it to its fullest while I’m in this body. When it comes time for me to go, I’m not afraid to go because I know there is a better life after death for me. But I’m in no hurry to stop living this one either. I’ll bet there are no blogs in Heaven. :)

By rocky

May 17, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

LaShelle - someone making minimum wage still earns close to $20,000 a year, which is well above the poverty level. Besides, if an adult over 19 is working a job making only minimum wage, they need to look back at their lives and wonder where they screwed up that would put them in that situation. Exactly how high does the minimum wage have to be to make it enough?

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

And who would that be rocky?

By rocky

May 17, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Actually, no, norman. I never even mentioned black people in my post. But I believe you just did. Which is surprising, coming from an uptight psychopath such as yourself.

By Ben

May 17, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah Rocky? Well I don’t wear Tommy, but I do complain about co-pay. Considering no one in my family spends a lot of time in the clinic or the hospital, I think the 100 or so dollars I pay every month should cover my $20 co-pay.

BUT yes, I work, I am educated, don’t collect that welfare check and impregnant single, slutty easy girls, who then pop out baby after illigitimate baby. And I’ll probably NEVER be living under a bridge and a life spent sleeping on the street.

I agree with Chris Rock on that subject, along with insurance.

By rocky

May 17, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

Who would what be, LaShelle?

By rocky

May 17, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Ben - I complain about co-pays as well since I pay for insurance. I was saying that those who are on the taxpayer’s dime and are wearing name-brand clothes have no right to complain about a $20 co-pay at a clinic. And the fact is that if a woman has a child out of wedlock, statistics show that she is over 100 times more likely to live in poverty. That’s called making your bed, screwing in it and then sleeping in it.

By Carey

May 17, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-A-4-video.html This web site shows abortion in action. This is what Norman’s reason and intellect accomplishes without God.

By DB

May 17, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

LaShelle, Sorry for being cocky or ignorant, I’m not sure where that’s coming from. I’m just stating things bluntly. You don’t need two jobs to survive. I supported my wife and two kids for about 8 years on less than $300 per week while going to college. Let’s just say food, water, and clothing are the most important things in my life as I’m sure you can understand given your last posting. It was tough, but we survived, and so will you. We’re still struggling. When did I say YOU have a sense of entitlement? I’m assuming you’re a hard worker, and I’m just saying that most people have the sense of entitlment, not you in particular. I’m sorry you have to raise a kid on your own; I agree it must be tough. I’m sure, however, your kid will be a great person someday because of it. The fact that it’s tough to make a living is not solely because of immigrants(or even remotely if you ask me).

By Ben

May 17, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

I guess then, Lola, context is what needs to be considered. In the context that Fox made his statement, it was true. I’m not sure what others you are talking about that led to the Cosby incident or whatever others raised hell about.

By Ben

May 17, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

And if they don’t have jobs Rocky, they probably don’t have co-pay. I may be wrong.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

Carey you must be a man.

How about showing a video of a 15 year old being forced to give birth?

That would be what religious reason and intellect accomplishes with their god.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

Rocky, minimum wage is only $5.15/hr, last time I checked that only adds up to $9888 a year, maybe you’re referring to the ‘living wage’ which is about $20000 a year for one person. And maybe we’re not all so well off that our education is paid for, maybe we have to work to pay for it ourselves. Let’s not get into that though.

DB, I agree with you on that one, especially number two. If we can invade Iraq on the premise of “freeing the people” maybe we should do the same for Mexico. After all, they do have a Dictatorship, right? It would benefit us greatly to stick our noses in their business if anyone’s at all.

By Jennifer

May 17, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Now this a topic that really requires thought. Seriously, does it matter? Paula and Corey are both adults. Whether it did or did not happen does not need to be a matter of public debate. I guess someone forgot to prepare for work and grabbed a readily available topic.

By Randy

May 17, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

How about showing a video of a 15 year old murdering a baby. Murder is murder reguardless of the age of the baby or fetus. Just because having a baby may be a inconvenience to someone, doesn’t give them the right to murder the child. Children are given to us by the creator. I am so tired of selfish selfcentered people like Whiley. It ain’t all about you Whiley.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

People, females don’t get pregnant on their own ya know.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

DB, you’re right, I’ve always believed what doesn’t kill me will only make me stronger, so keep an eye out for me because some day I will be famous for what I do…as far as making a living, I don’t blame the immigrants solely, I blame the gov’t mostly. If you don’t give a damn about the ones at home, how can you give a damn about the ones somewhere else?

By DB

May 17, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

Rocky, I need to clear two things up. With Hilfiger, I didn’t want to bring color into it; I meant just a type of person who has a sense of entitlement, which includes all shades of color. Many people thought I was insinuating a particular color, when I know from experience that people of all colors exhibit the same attitudes. Many people from the Atlanta area have a tough time realizing that losers are losers, and there are losers of all color. Also, I didn’t mean copay(which assumes medical insurance). I’m talking about income-sensitive slide rule where the government picks up the rest of the tab, not insurance.

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

LaShelle…I think you misunderstand the low wage who benefits formula. Of course low wages aren’t helping in the economy because companies are posting record profits. The money is going into the pockets of the companies and their directors rather than to the employees who actually DO the WORK. Wage stagnation is documented in reports from our own government. Want to really be pissed off take a look at CEO and executive pay changes during the same periods of time.

I don’t agree that it takes 2 incomes to support a household. People in this country have an extremely skewed idea of poor. Most of those complaining about needing 2 incomes assume that they should be able to have everything that other people have. In what other country in the world do the ‘poor’ have electricity, microwave ovens, color TVs, cell phones, etc.? There does appear to be a sense of entitlement to a ‘minimum’ standard of living that is not realistic when compared to the past.

By Ben

May 17, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

So, what if people don’t believe in YOUR creator? Shouldn’t they be allowed to do what they want then Randy? Not everyone suscribes to your religion or moral justification — so you bringing religion and YOUR creator to rationalize your view then you are selfish and self-centered. Okay, God-centered.

By Carey

May 17, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Whiley, have you looked at the video? Watch then tell my that isn’t barbaric. Justify your right to choose.

By DB

May 17, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, Rocky, Netbanker, Jack: It’s time for me to get to work. I do wish all of you the best. It was fun, and thanks for the mental stimulation.

By mel

May 17, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

I have a question. Why in the hell did Brian Nichols plead Not Guilty?

By DB

May 17, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

One last comment. This is addictive: It’s ironic how the religious and conservative talk about how barbaric abortion is yet support having thousands of Iraqi soldiers, Iraqi civilians, British and American civilians getting killed in Iraq. If you’re anti-abortion but don’t support the war, I’m not referring to you.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Have a good one DB…try to get some work done!

By Mercy

May 17, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Lola - you want to live in a totalitarian state where only “good things” are printed in the newspapers. Fine, you do that. You go on voting for the Bushies - isn’t there another one,in Florida, “due” the precidency? While we still have some shred of free press left, I still want to know the truth (about a lot of things: Abu Graib, George Bush’s military record, Korans flushed down toilets) - even if it hurts. Remember, the truth shall set you free.

By SUZAN

May 17, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

my comment for the day. I believe the editors at Newsweek should all be tried for sedition.

By norman

May 17, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this

mel: just because you saw a brother shoot and kill a judge right before your eyes doesn’t make it so. He allegedly killed the judge!

It’s just like no one ever saw Jesus resurrected but you must believe this alleged event.

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

Mercy, as I stated in my previous post that was ignored, the American free press is DEAD. Stories are retracted because the White House SAYS so. It’s over. Welcome to TASS. The last line of defense against dictatorship and totalitarianism DIES with the free press. It’s OVER. People like Lola will clap and cheer their swaggering leader on cue; they will believe that their government is always right because there is no one left to tell the truth. There will be no questions that are not pre-approved. Eventually, the questions will just stop. NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW THE TRUTH AGAIN.

Without a truly free press, no semblence of democracy is even possible.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

lol ! Randy I forgot you were a bible-beater! lol Randy, it IS ABOUT ME BECAUSE IT IS MY BODY. I decide. I create.

BTW, I don’t recall God forcing any woman to have a baby she didn’t want. Not even Jesus. Free will is important to Christianity. If a woman chooses to neglect her health during pregnancy and the fetus dies, is that murder too? Are you going to start prosecuting moms-to-be for having a cocktail? Please describe this utopian world in which all these babies are born to women who don’t want them. Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

Carey, viewing a hernia operation is barbaric too. I don’t want to see either one.

By norman

May 17, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

I have it on good authority, from two sources, that last Saturday Bush flushed down two pages of the Bill of Rights in his toilet to the left of the oval office. He did not however flush down the second amendment.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

P.S. Way to go Paula ! You go girl !

By Carey

May 17, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

So a free press can quote unnamed sources that don’t verify a story is true but because that source didn’t deny the story it is OK to fill in the blanks? Don’t journalists have to be responsible? It must be totalitarianism to make people responsible for what they do. Did you stop to ponder what kind of damage this has done to U.S.-Arab relations? Do you think maybe Newsweek did this to be malicious? People are dead because of this.

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

How about y’all take the abortion discussion to a blog about abortion?

By Carey

May 17, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Whiley, hernia operations don’t result in the end of a life. You didn’t watch the video did you? Why would you? It’s your right to choice not to face the realities of your decision. Did they sugar coat it at the clinic too?

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

The Defense department saw the story before it was published and didn’t refute it. Are people dead because the truth was made known, or because it happened. BTW, this was NOT the first report of this that’s hit the news. The administration is BLAMING a magazine for the mess THEY made. First rule of the Bush administration: POINT THE FINGER AT SOMEONE ELSE.

Have you EVER ONCE heard this President or any of his people take responsibility for ANYTHING? Even ONCE?

No. It’s too late now. Free America IS dead. We are slaves. Now clap and cheer before Suzan arrests you for sedition.

By Ken

May 17, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

This is definitely a non-issue, unless, of course, the contestants who didn’t get coaching (and who didn’t advance to the “Final 12”) decide to sue for misrepresentation and fraud, or even sexual harrassment (“I didn’t sleep with Paula, so that’s why I didn’t advance on that show” would be an obvious claim). Hugh Grant may have had a digusting moment, but he didn’t dash the career hopes of young men and women by his actions. If the accusations are true, then let Paula try to laugh away the civil litigation that is sure to come her way.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

lol Carey a fetus isn’t a baby, just like a tadpole isn’t a frog.

I see nothing wrong with early termination.

I see absolutely everything wrong with forcing a female to continue with a pregnancy she does not want. Do NOT start with “well she should have thought of that before…” That’s BS. Not all pregnancies occur because a woman is drunk & slutty. Most are in loving relationships. What do you call a man that is drunk & slutty impregnating his multiple lovers?

Get over yourselves bible beaters. If over 50% of people claim to be religious, that means most a lot of your flock are having abortions. Deal with your own kind instead of trying to legistate your weird beliefs to all.

P.S. Paula & Demi got it right !

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Carey…what is your position about the free press that quoted an unnamed source from INSIDE the WHITE HOUSE in the Valerie Plame outing? Why is it that those journalists spent time in jail for not citing their source (journalistic integrity) and yet the administration still hasn’t managed to figure out who leaked the name of a covert CIA operative who was actively engaged in the war on terror by focusing on attempts to gain nuclear technology? Would this report even have surfaced without the free press?

What is the damage done by an Administration to countless thousands with this war on terror? Don’t they have to be responsible for the 400%-plus increase in world-wide terror attacks? Why is this the first year in the history of the terrorism report put out by the State Department that doesn’t include figures on terror? What about the Video News Releases put out by the Administration that are filmed to look like an objective reporter is doing a story? What about the vetting of citizens who appear at ‘town hall’ meetings?

It appears that you hold reporters to a particular standard to which you do not hold our own government.

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, you are right, sorry I get angry when the bible beaters pull their nonsense.

Know what I love? I love the fact that the press didn’t tear Paula apart. You know, start the “whore” campaign like they love to do.

So maybe things are slowly changing for the better.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

Why are you so angry today, kimberly? And Mercy, I don’t want newspapers and mags to only print the good things, but I don’t see what there is to gain by printing something like Newsweek’s article, that is now unsubstantiated, when we are in the middle of a very strained relationship with the arab world as it is. And it would be nice if someone actually wrote about the positive things taking place in Iraq right now. You won’t see that anywhere, but they are still happening.

And in your quest for truth, don’t you want to also find out the truth about John Kerry’s military record, which he has now promised for over 100 days to release but still hasn’t. How about finding out the truth about Ted Kennedy’s neglegence in regard to the “accident” at Chapaquidick and the fact that he waited HOURS before reporting it? What about the truth that Hillary was well aware that her campaign finance finance director deliberately understated her fund-raising costs so she would have more money to spend on elections, and now prosecutors allege one of her fund-raisers helped because he wanted a pardon from her husband? How about finding out the truth about something on the liberal side AS WELL as the conservative side? I’m not saying either side shouldn’t be looked into, but if you want the truth, in all fairness you should want it from everyone, right?

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Did anyone hear about the woman in Texas that tried to kill her baby by feeding it raw hamburger meat hoping it would get e coli? Wish I knew the whole story but I only caught the end of the news report this morning.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

I have no desire to get into a blog about abortion, and it would be great if we could get off that topic all together. Would that be possible, Carey and Whiley? That’s just one topic that leads to nothing but bad feelings, no matter which side you’re on. The rest of us on here would greatly appreciate that.

I’m wondering how it is that Brian Nichols can plead not guilty as well. Weren’t there like 100 witnesses, video tape, security cameras and actual VICTIMS who were there and SAW him do it? How is that possible?

By Lola

May 17, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Bruce - I did hear about that case and it was BOTH the parents who conspired to kill their child (who is 6 months old) by feeding him rancid meat and making him sick. The mother is 19 and the father is 20 (they’re not married) and they wanted to kill the baby because (direct quote from the mother) “He ruined my life”.

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

Lola, I’m not angry; I’m sad. I am in mourning and grief. I have been working for 18 months now, pouring my heart out in numerous capacities, to share truth, to help people think, and to stand up for what is right.

EVIL is winning, and I no longer believe there is hope. Your willingness to, with lightening speed, throw labels like the L-word and the C-word, and the Kennedy word into the discussion of something that is, frankly, more significant than you’ll EVER know, only proves my point.

We are lost. Truly.

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

Nichols pleading not guilty does not surprise me. He proved he was crazy buy his actions in the first place. What gets me is the lawyer that is defending him. Surely she/he would recommend he plead out on this one. But I guess he (Nichols) is hoping for a bleeding heart jury to help him out.

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

I didn’t know it was both parents. Man what is this world coming too. Did the baby die?

By Lola

May 17, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

kimberly - don’t be sad. There is always hope left in the world, no matter what the situation is. I wasn’t trying to throw labels around at all, and I was simply responding to your quest for truth and saying it should encompass all sides of all things and all people. The things you mentioned pertained only to this administration and I merely pointed out that there are truths we should know about more things that just one President’s term.

You’ve made me think about a lot of things from your posts here, whether or not I agree with them. The problem you face is the same as the rest of us. What we see as the “right” thing and the “truth” isn’t perceived by all others as right or truth, and it becomes very frustrating talking to those who simply cannot or will not open their eyes to the realities you are trying to point out. I understand that completely. But whether or not you change anyone’s mind, you HAVE brought a lot of thought and contemplation into this blog, and speaking only for myself, your posts have served to broaden my world view. Whether or not I agree with you is immaterial. So for what it’s worth, don’t feel lost or sad. Your words aren’t all falling on deaf ears.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 17, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, it’s always darkest before the dawn. I understand your despair, as I’m feeling it to some degree myself, but everything changes constantly, so it will not last. Don’t be disappointed if you can’t seem to set forth major change in the world; just attempt to alleviate a little of its suffering in small ways, extending a little mercy to yourself as well… Namaste.

If anyone’s interested, Bill Moyer is responding to his critics regarding free press:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/16/1329245

By Lola

May 17, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Bruce - no, the baby is still alive, but has been severely abused (besides the meat thing) and is now in state custody. Poor thing never had a chance. Why don’t people like that just leave him on a church doorstep or put him up for adoption? But it seems to be really bad in Texas right now. I have family in Houston that I visited for five days, and the reports of child abuse that I heard on the news there made me sick to my stomach. There were three cases I saw reported on the same day, of sexual assault and rape of three little girls from age 6 weeks to 12 months, and all had been penetrated by either a human or an object, causing internal injuries and massive bleeding and hemoraging. Just writing about it right now makes me want to cry.

By Lyrazel

May 17, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

I am really happy to see new posters. I hope expressing ideas opens minds.

Fox gained his political support from poor and indians in Mexico, not from the well-established-well off elite groups. Fox was also promised by the USA NAFTA would bring jobs. He cleared a lot of tax hurdles for American operations to set up across the border. For the 90s there were many factories built by American interests—then—they pulled out—getting goods from cheaper markets—renigging on promises made. Within 6 years—most of those new-built factories closed.

So now—you have illegal imigration and a larger percentage of hispanic. What many of you fail to see, what you folks always fail to see while you berate Mexicans, is how many nations these people are coming from! You say illegal mexican—and they are Guatamalan—you say—scum of the earth mexicans—and they are Bolivian, Salvadoran, Nicaraguan, Chinese, Indian, Pakistan, British and countless—nations have illegals in this country! Yet here in Georgia—its always dirty illegal Mexicans…even if they are not Mexican.

Anyway, what many also fail to understand is why this nation is so reliant on illegal labor. First, Americans want groceries at a good price. Labor in the field getting $5.15 an hour is unknown in this country. Plus overtime? Ha hahahahaha Usually the rate is about 20.00/day. This includes, onions out of Vadalia, and all them peanuts and tomatoes, cotton and peaches you rally about Georgia on. Then you have the poultry pickers, washers, stackers—maybe if they are lucky they can score 5.10/hour wage…but being poor the sucker-punching employers tend to get a lot more out of these few—to the point—You wouldnt work there! When Vietnamese came to the coast and shrimpers were in uproars because these dirty—were taking away jobs—and ripping heads off shrimp is exactly the kind of work—everybody wants—right?

We seem to want our pretty luxuries and while we pack in our goods from the overloaded stores—we pretend everyone is getting fair wage—and these dirty scum take away decent fair wage jobs—yes. O I see it. Wink. Wink. You want them to pick your food at dirt cheap prices, sew your clothes, build your houses, and provide you with a life that is so fullfilled you have all you could want.

They should go back to where they came from…when they are done working, isnt that what you are really saying?

Carey, POSTING film clips of abortions is one of the reasons why I could never support anti-abortion causes. Rather than deal with the issue of why so many are needed—they use blame and intimidation against women. Tell me where your big new adoption centers are—your big new social care facilities for women to live in before giving up babies for adoption where they can get pre-natal care—and show me—just once—men taking responsibility for the babies they help to create—and I will visit. I castrated calves—it was bloody too….wanna see the pixs?

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Kimberly you have this Administration pegged, but good! Every person who has spoken against the administration or pointed out flaws has had their CHARACTER attacked. Yet you do not ever see them refute the charges or even respond to the questions. WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Look at how long it took them to admit there were no WMD and that privatizing social security won’t fix the insolvency problem. They are masters at sticking to the script and getting people to buy into believing something because it’s been repeated enough times.

Whiley…I agree with what you’re saying, but please don’t encourage the rapid anti-abortion whackos. They’ll never admit that they just want the kid born and then won’t do jack diddlie to ensure that they have a good life. These are the same damn folks who say people should take responsibility for their actions, yet work to deny people the right to do just that. They’ll never admit that for many of these families having the abortion IS the responsible thing to do because they can’t obtain pre-natal care or can’t take time off of work to be pregnant because that means they can’t be responsible to pay their bills or feed their kids due to lack of income or that they impregnator is abusive and bringing a child into that situation is dangerous or that it’s likely the mother and fetus won’t survive due to the beatings. They refuse to acknowledge the dark, nasty underbelly of humanity that exists for these people. And lastly…most of them are MEN who won’t ever have to deal with the situation.

In fact, I’m tired of the religiously conservative Christians who stridently needs EVERYONE to believe in an Almightly, All-Powerful God that they immediately dimish by putting limits on HIM/HER through an insistance that GOD is worried about whether you follow tons of flipping rules and requiring adherence to an extremely narrow set of beliefs. They push their Omnipotent Lord who can create the UNIVERSE for heaven’s sake yet apparently isn’t wise, or loving, or smart enough to appear to the peoples that HE created in a way that is meaningful to them. Oh no…indigenous desert nomads from Australia MUST believe in a Jewish carpenter/fisherman from Israel. What about all the people who never had the chance to hear the word and to be saved? All Powerful GOD created them just to burn in hell? What kind of loving GOD is that?! HELLO CHRISTIANS….GOD made us so entirely different because HIS challenge to us is to truly live the GOLDEN RULE. Connect the dots between creating the universe, tower of babel, scattering the Tribes of Israel, and the message of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Of course it isn’t easy! That’s the damn point.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel - I wasn’t aware of the history with Mexico and the promises we didn’t keep. That does change my opinion of Fox a bit, although I still don’t like the fact that he encourages his people to come here illegally. I do know about the different nationalities that come across the border, though. I grew up in Houston and we had a LOT of illegals in my high school who were taking English as a second language and a LOT of them weren’t Mexican at all. Many of them were Asian or South American, and all had come here with their parents to find a better life.

By Lola

May 17, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Netbanker - not all of us conservative Christians feel the need to impose our beliefs on the rest of the world, and I happen to believe that ALL religions are praying to the same Creator, whether they call Him Allah, Buddah, God, Eugene, whatever! And I certainly don’t think anyone is going to hell for not embracing the same beliefs that I do. I just wish you wouldn’t just lump us all together into one big collective group of idiots. There are those of us who live and let live, and take joy in our own lives rather than trying to run those of others.

That said, I do have to giggle every time you use the word “sheeple”. :)

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, that makes a lot of sense. Just means there’s one more country pissed at us-I’m not surprised. Wouldn’t be the first time we screwed someone for nothing, and it won’t be the last.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Randy, I thought you had left the blog. How unfortunate you return. Question. You believe that sex out of wedlock is sinful. Do you believe sex performed for other than procreation (like for pleasure)is also a sin?

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Whew! Sorry for the venting there, but it’s been a rough day and I’m right there with Kimberly on being absolutely discouraged. We have people who claim to be defending what the Founding Fathers stood for yet are doing everything in their power to dismantle what the Founding Father’s put into place. They threaten the independence of the judiciary, they claim questioning one’s government is unpatriotic (despite multiple quote from the FF’s stating it is the MOST patriotic thing to do), they are proud to be a SuperPower yet are spending us into the SuperPoorHouse and giving the economic power to our competitors (think about CHINA holding more U.S. Treasury NOtes and securities than any other country…HELLO…they flood the market by selling and the dollar tanks right along with our spend, spend, spend economy), they fight science education in schools despite science and technology being what made our nation great (think space age people!) even as countries like China (YES, CHINA AGAIN) and India churning out scientists like there is no tomorrow, they claim we need to break dependence on foreign oil yet we have no Manhattan Project to do so and they don’t require energy companies to figure it out in return for BILLIONS in tax breaks, they repeal environmental laws rather than give tax breaks to companies who develop environmental technologies (like oil eating microbes) that the world can use, and mostly they claim moral leadership and to be good, conservative christians who are not being the good stewards of the earth as their God directed nor are they loving to those who are in need in the least. The World is F’d UP!!!!

By Jack

May 17, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Randy has to think on that last one! Netbanker: Agreed, the world is going to hell in a hand basket. My parents and their parents said the same thing. Its probably going to hit the fan good when the “insurgents” get thier hands on a nuke and take out one of our major cities. Which is the only reason I’m glad to be in Atlanta.

By Stan

May 17, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Netbanker and Lyrazel, you rock. That is exactly how things are. It’s disgusting the way that science is ridiculed and put on the back burner. I was reading about how there is a correlation between breast cancer and abortion. How that is possible, I don’t know. You can still be religious, and respect science. That is called being objective, and keeping your personal views and beliefs at bay. Science is a truly fascinating subject, and should be studied equally with math and language arts.

By RS

May 17, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Randy & Carey: I suppose every moment I’m NOT in bed with some man (well, hopefully my husband!) conceiving a child, I’m committing the sin of letting all those little eggies & spermies go to waste. That’s murder! Gee, I’d better get busy before menopause hits!

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Lola…I know that not ALL the conservative Christians need to impose their beliefs. I grew up in a rather conservative christian sect. I am absolutely railing (Or maybe it’s wailing?) on those who DO insist that the entire world has to believe in THEIR flavor of christianity. Examples of those types of people I see in here are Randy and Boscoe. As smart as they can be I just don’t get how they reconcile this wonderous being who created everything with these incredibly narrow limits on what God wants and who is saved. They are more worried about sets of rules coming from a book that absolutely contains contradictory rules to the rules than they are about the underlying meaning of it all. It the messages of love one another, compassion, being a good steward of the earth, reaching out to others in pain or need, being kind, turning the other cheek, walking in another’s shoes for a mile before judging. How do they just not get that God created diversity to show how high his expectations of us are in these regards? It’s easy to love the people just like us and harder when people are different.

they’re like those annoying fast talking legal disclosures in commercials. “My God is All Powerful, All Knowing, and is all about LOVE…please read the outrageously long list of very fine print rules in order to obtain salvation.

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, Kimberly…I completely agree and soon will be plotting my move overseas. :o)

By DB

May 17, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

I came back to catch up on recent comments. Netbanker was just getting started when I left. Someone lit a fire under him! He definitely should think about running for President! I can’t agree with you more on about everything! Go Netbanker!

By norman

May 17, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Jack: of course sex for pleasure is wrong. God/god wants you to suffer not to enjoy. That’s the essence of Christianity. His so-called son suffered, you will too. Boy, will you!

By Jack

May 17, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, if you go overseas you will certainly miss the good ole USA. We’ll miss you too :)

By norman

May 17, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

That British member of Parliament, George Galloway, testifying today in Washington may be lying or telling the truth, I have no way of knowing (God hasn’t told me yet) but he sure gave it to the Bush Administration. He reminds me of Howard Dean — a hard talking, hard fighting, basically impressive man not afraid of a fight.

The American Democrats need a little of his spirit. They have become intimidated. They need to march on the nearest Baptist Church and, having established it is empty, burn it down.

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

Come on Netbanker tell us how you really feel. Gosh maybe we should just go jump from a tall building and end it all right now. Now that you have told us all just how bad this country is and what bad people we are for believing in the American way, can you provide us with a solution so the landing won’t be so bad when we finish the fall down the slippery slope? I am so depressed after reading your comments I don’t even want to go home and face my children. All hope is lost. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

By DB

May 17, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Everyone: Take some time and read this blog. It is amazing how much people are talking? This is great stuff! And to think this all started out with Paula and some American Idol contestant is mind-boggling. Could this be considered therapy?

By Jack

May 17, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Norman, I just want to hear him say he makes whoopie for procreation only. That would make for a good laugh. I had wanted to ask Zack tha same question but I think we ran him off.

By rocky

May 17, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

norman - are you referring to the George Galloway who has now been identified as one of the many U.N. scumbags that benefited from Saddam’s oil-for-food program and took millions in bribes from him in exchange for his opposition to sanctions imposed on Iraq? That George Galloway? You’re right. He’s a lot like Howard Dean: a socialist loser who has no business being in the business of leadership and serves only to serve his own purposes and to polarize. I couldn’t agree more. Very good comparison, norman. Good job.

By DB

May 17, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Bruce: I’m right there with Netbanker and others. I think the “American Way” you refer to has been lost a long time ago when people stopped questioning their government and started bashing everyone for their opinions. Or maybe the “American Way” needs to be updated to reflect rational thought.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Hey Rock, Norm can make some good points if we can keep him away from religion. (operative word being if.)

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

My impression is that we are watching the beginning of the end of the American ‘Empire’. Nero danced while Rome burned…can’t you smell the smoke people? There’s time to put out the fire because it’s only smoldering right now. People may have been saying that things are getting worse for a long time, but look hard at our society and compare it to that of ‘The Greatest Generation.’

They lived in a time when community was important, people watched each other’s children, shared what they had when times were tough, pulled together, and considered the needs of the community (especially the young) before satisfying their own desires. Today is all about me, my, mine, and ‘personal responsibility.’ Now I’m all for paying for the consequences of one’s own decisions, but sometimes people’s circumstances are not of their own making…such as all the people screwed by the Enron collapse or the United retirees who worked hard for the company and are getting screwed in the pension area or children born to poor families.

By norman

May 17, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

Rocky: we don’t know whether Galloway is what you say or is an anti-war patriot. I said I didn’t know. You are quick to pick up on any crap you hear from rightwing talk show hosts. Did you get this from Opium-crazed Rush, Hannity the Great Black Hope of the Irish, Boortz the Nazi, or Michael Gallagher the part-Lithuanian Fascist?

By Whiley

May 17, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

LOL ! I’m suffering because I HAVEN’T had sex in a long time !

Norman meant to say “God wants us to suffer when we don’t have sex because it’s wrong not to feel pleasure”.

Now THAT’S the kind of sermon I’d like to hear for a change !

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

DB, I thought you were working, lol!

By LaShelle

May 17, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Yep yep yep…

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Norman, If you believe there is no God and religion is just a fairytale why should we flush the Bible and burn the churches? Just leave them alone and if what you say is true they will just go away. But wait both have lasted for what two thousand years? Maybe you should rethink your position. It doesn’t look like either is going anywhere. They will be here long after you and I are gone.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

DB, you have entered the twilight blog. It is highly addicting. You will think about it when you are nowhere near a computer. You will think about it before sleep. You will write down good comments to try and get Norman with. We are your friends. we don’t always agree, but it is good fun. Go forth and blog in peace!

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Rocky, I know you are, but what am I? Who says name-calling is immature? No one wants to discuss facts; we’ve been waiting for a slander-leader to pull us out of it!

Netbanker: Thanks for showing me I’m not alone. Still, while holding up recent posts as yet another example, I fear all is lost. Remember, these fundamentalists BELIEVE in an impending Armageddon, Anti-Christ, and end of the world as we know it. Self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps? Some days I think the Anti-Christ is all around us. Can you hear the cheering and clapping?

By rocky

May 17, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

Actually, norman, none of the above. I got it out of the actual report that was compiled following the investigation.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

If God had not intended for us to make whoopie as often as possible, he wouldn’t have made it feel soooooooo good! LOL

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

The actual report cited “UN scumbags” and “socialist losers?” I need to get better information. Here I was thinking Howard Dean was a rarity known as “Democrat with testicles.”

By Bruce

May 17, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Net,

Those are what some on here have called the good ole days. But we cannot go back to them becuase in the good ole days Blacks were considered second class citizens with out the right to vote. Women were considered nothing more than baby factories who should be at home, not in the workforce. Come on guys help me out. I know you remember a few weeks back when we discussed the good ole days. Tell Netbanker how GOOD it was back then.

And one thing you left out, people were more religious back then too. There were more studing God’s word instead of denouncing it. There were less people living in smaller communities where almost everyone was either related or at least knew each other.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Some of them do. JFK had them. Ask Fidel.

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Jack, good point. Unfortunately, the life expectancy of a Dem with REAL testes is strangely short. Ask Wellstone.

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

Bruce…my comments aren’t intended to bash America and to say that I’ve given up. I say those things to serve as something of a wakeup call and point out that we can do something about our situation if we’d follow the rules we learned as children when crossing the street. Anyone remember Stop, Look, and Listen?

As a country we need to STOP bashing each other, STOP fooling ourselves about the condition of our finances and education, LOOK for the good in the other side, LOOK for solutions that are possible to implement, LOOK for common ground, and LISTEN to each other with an open mind, LISTEN to what others say, and more importantly LISTEN to what they do not say.

Am I the only geek on here who was on a debate team?

You want some solutions? If a federal dollar is spent it needs to be accounted for in the budget so we can get a grip on the real condition of our financial health, we need to focus on science education as that leads to innovation (the race for the moon gave us microwave ovens, new textiles, new computing capabilities, a whole plethora of things we take for granted today), we need to stop corporate welfare…what happened to the free market system?, we need to put limits on congressional terms because there are too many people who’ve been there WAY TOO long so focus can return to doing what’s right for the country instead of doing what will raise the most money and get me re-elected, we need to impose strict limits on fund raising and spending for politics (it is OBSCENE the amount of $$ spent on that last election round), we need to tell our leaders that character assassination in politics is NOT ACCEPTABLE…we’ve all done things we aren’t proud of that have no effect on our ability to make good business decisions, we need to cut out ALL pork from ALL legislative budgets, we need a law or constitutional amendment that says all amendments to bills must be germaine to that prime purpose of the bill instead of allowing legislatures to sneak changes into bills…let’s get the horse trading out of the legislature and make them return to real compromise and leadership and transparent government, we need to stop coddling kids with self-esteem BS and teach them that in the REAL WORLD you COMPETE based on hard work and not feelings.

LaShelle…don’t move, get involved!

By kimberly

May 17, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

Net… Hunny… I’ve been spouting this logic as long and loud as I can. I’ve been involved: knocking on doors, working booths, phone calls, letters, meetings…. I write my Ga. legislators, my Congressman, my Sentator (only Isakson, as Chambliss sold his soul to Satan years ago and only mocks us now) the paper, friends, family, people of influence, Sentators from other states….

All the logic, reason, and actual history about the founding principles of America don’t change the basic ideals to which half this country clings: (a) It’s all Clinton’s fault because he wet his wick (b) Hillary’s a lesbo (c) Rush is NOT a hypocrite because he really did hurt his back, (d) Welfare is evil, and (e) Why do you hate freedom?

I’m sorry… You’re telling them to wake up. I have lost my faith that they will. We are lost.

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

Bruce, I know about all those things and agree that they were wrong, but it seems as if we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water. Why can’t those values of community be applied or ‘returned to’ without the not so good parts?

In business we call that continuous improvement. You figure out what you’re doing right and what you’re doing wrong. You fix what you’re doing wrong, you keep what was right, and try it again.

I don’t believe that people were more religious back then than they are now. It just seemed that way because the country was more homogenous from a religious perspective and a common European ancestry. The country is much more diverse today and the ‘denouncing of religion’ is the screaming of the old guard who limits God instead of celebrates His wonders and lives up to HIS challenges…these people seem not to have room in their hearts for those who might glorify God in a different manner.

By Jack

May 17, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, it sounds good but remember, we’re talking about politicians. Nothing short of revolution will change things for the better. Like Kimberly says, there are not enough politicians with gonads. All they care about is money and votes. Period.

By Netbanker

May 17, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Yes, I know about the (@#(&# politicians. Those is power will always do their best to either maintain the status quo or make changes to their personal benefit. That is what really pisses me off about the Republicans! When did ‘do the right thing’ become do the right thing to keep me elected or do the religious right thing?

I fear that a revolution is what is needed but by the time folks realize that it will be too late. The People became the Sheeple and think that they are powerless to demand change. We aren’t, damn it! We can do something if we’d just demand that our government start playing by the rules of business.

And that depressing and likely unachieveable thought voiced…I’m going home to love on my very sick dog and down a Bombay Sapphire Martini (or 3…then again it only counts as a new drink if you completely drain the glass, otherwise it is merely a continuation.)

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 07:57 AM | Link to this

Net,

You really make some good points and I will gladly agree with a return to the past under those circumstances. We as a country have done some things completely wrong and we do need to wake up. A time of healing will certainly have to proceed any repair in order for it to work though. I also agree that it will have to begin with our leadership (both government and business). Until we begin to hold them legally responsible for their action, just the same as the adverage citizen, we will just be beating our heads against the wall. It upsets me to think that a Senator can be involved in a car accident he caused and never have to face the music. That a President can commit perjury and never face the music. CEO’s can milk their employees for everything they have and never face the music. I don’t know where I found it but the following statement will usally be true. “The speed of the leader determines the rate of the pack”.

As for the religion part. I disagree, there are more people today trying to fit God into what they want him to be than just excepting the fact that He is God and has never changed. We have changed Him into what we want Him to be. He clearly spells out how we are to glorify Him, worship Him, and what we are to believe about Him. But as free thinking human beings we tend to take our own path and gloify ourselves until the poop hits the fan. In the days you refer to people were able to except God on God’s terms unstead of our terms. To me that is the difference.

And to answer the debate question, I was never been on a debate team but I do like to express my opinion from time to time. Does that disqualify me from this blog:-)

By LaShelle

May 18, 2005 08:37 AM | Link to this

I hope not Bruce, I’ve never been on a debate team either.

By Lyrazel

May 18, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this

Generational Differences:

Its ok to spout theories—spew opinions—but when you volunteer your time you are doing something about the problems in our society. I guess thats what I see—too many want someone else to do their work—too many want someone else to raise their children—and too many of you go from work to home and back to work without ever considering how short life is in the persuit of posessions. I see few people offering solutions, just blame. Blame everyone else but yourself seems to be the creed of Americans. Blame seems to be the ticket to being American—got a beef—blame somebody. Give back to the world what joy you can—open those hearts and find time to donate canned goods to Foodbanks, or sweaters to shelters—your volunteering is desperately needed—stop trashing and make something good happen of the problems our nation has. Your country reflects you—if it is shallow—murky and oversaturated in greed then maybe your inaction speaks louder than you ever believed.

By norman

May 18, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this

What disqualifies you, Brucie, is your chatter and pratter about god when there is no evidence that he even exists. You have never used your mind to think, to reason, to use your highest powers. You stick to superstition and bunkum.

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

Norman,

O.K. I will use my mind to think. Let’s see, I know here is a thought, I think you are wrong. How is that? Thanks for your opinion anyway.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 09:12 AM | Link to this

Did anyone read in the AJC today that many people are taking off work to see the star wars movie? If I owned a company and found out that an employee of mine called in sick for that, they would not return. What a society we live in.

By DB

May 18, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel: You make a lot of sense, especially about the lumping of all Latino immigrants as Mexicans when it’s more like 50/50 and your most recent post about the “Blame Game” in the U.S. A lot of people don’t realize there is a freight train running from the Southern Border of Mexico to the Northern Border, and thousands of Central Americans ride it to get to the U.S. each day. Even when they get deported, they say they are Mexicans just so they don’t have to risk their lives(gang crimes around train) to do the long trip on the next try to jump over. Please keep it going; I’m interested in what else you have to say!

By norman

May 18, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Jack: of course your employee would not call in sick for movie going, but just sick.
An employer would like to think he owns his worker but slavery, unfortunately, has been abolished.

Brucie: you are hopeless. There is a difference between fact and opinion, but mired as you are in religious hysteria you cannot see the difference. I shall not cast my pearls before you again.

By DB

May 18, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

Jack, They shouldn’t play the “Star Wars” movie during business hours. It’s their fault. :-) It’s a amazing how people look at you as if you’re the a**hole when you fire them because they don’t show up to work one day or another without even letting you know. Then they’re so full of themselves that they come back for revenge as if they didn’t deserve it. I’d like to see how this pans out. I can see the next article in the news being some guy suing his employer for firing him because he went to see Star Wars.

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Normie,

See God does answer prayers.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

It is bad. Employers cannot fire their employees for valid reason and parents are afraid to disipline their children

By Jack

May 18, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Normie?

By norman

May 18, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

It is only blacks and Christians who cannot be fired, for they tend to raise a stink and have pressure groups supporting them. Good, patriotic white atheists can be fired with no difficulty.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

Norman, I was making fun of Bruce refering to you as Normie. Is that what your mom called you when you were little? BTW, plenty of Christians get fired without raising a stink. Except for the librarians in Atlanta who won millions for a reverse discrimination suit.

By norman

May 18, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

Brucie: the swine I shall not cast my pearls before is YOU, not the others.

By mel

May 18, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

Norman, is that why we have so many Mark Bartons? Frustration?

Jack, I say good for those librarians. I was so happy for them. Discrimination should never be tolerated.

As I see more and more news reports on sexually abused/murdered children, I get more and more frustrated. Why are child molestors/abusers even let out of prison? Pedophiles and their ilk cannot be rehabilitated, so how does it benefit society to allow them back into it? Take the cases of the 2 Florida girls recently. Both of their killers were sex offenders. I think anyone convicted of sexually abusing a child should be put in jail for life. What could possibly be the argument against it?

By Tim

May 18, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Mel… I definitely agree with you about pedophiles… they should never be let out… I just looked at a website you can go to to see sex offenders that are living in your neighborhood… I put in my mother’s address (because I have a 14 year old sister)… I couldn’t believe it… there were FIVE on there that were not only sex offenders but pedophiles… that lived less than a 1/4 mile from my mom’s house… my mom forbids my younger sister from walking to her friends house that is only 2 streets over… how sad that my mother has to do that… but it is either that or run the risk of her being kidnapped, raped, and murdered… I say keep them locked up! (ok… there is my rant for the day)

did anyone check out the article today about the psychiatry group taking up the issue of gay marriage… very interesting (I know I probably just opened up a can of worms… but it was getting boring… I need some of y’all to entertain me lol)

By spicegurl

May 18, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

Greetings to the Imprisoned Citizens of the United States. We are Unitarian Jihad. There is only God, unless there is more than one God. The vote of our God subcommittee is 10-8 in favor of one God, with two abstentions. Brother Flaming Sword of Moderation noted the possibility of there being no God at all, and his objection was noted with love by the secretary.

Greetings to the Imprisoned Citizens of the United States! Too long has your attention been waylaid by the bright baubles of extremist thought. Too long have fundamentalist yahoos of all religions (except Buddhism — 14-5 vote, no abstentions, fundamentalism subcommittee) made your head hurt. Too long have you been buffeted by angry people who think that God talks to them.

You have a right to your moderation! You have the power to be calm! We will use the IED of truth to explode the SUV of dogmatic _expression!

People of the United States, why is everyone yelling at you??? Whatever happened to … you know, everything? Why is the news dominated by nutballs saying that the Ten Commandments have to be tattooed inside the eyelids of every American, or that Allah has told them to kill Americans in order to rid the world of Satan, or that Yahweh has instructed them to go live wherever they feel like, or that Shiva thinks bombing mosques is a great idea? Sister Immaculate Dagger of Peace notes for the record that we mean no disrespect to Jews, Muslims, Christians or Hindus. Referred back to the committee of the whole for further discussion.

We are Unitarian Jihad. We are everywhere. We have not been born again, nor have we sworn a blood oath. We do not think that God cares what we read, what we eat or whom we sleep with. Brother Neutron Bomb of Serenity notes for the record that he does not have a moral code but is nevertheless a good person, and Unexalted Leader Garrote of Forgiveness stipulates that Brother Neutron Bomb of Serenity is a good person, and this is to be reflected in the minutes.

Beware! Unless you people shut up and begin acting like grown-ups with brains enough to understand the difference between political belief and personal faith, the Unitarian Jihad will begin a series of terrorist-like actions. We will take over television studios, kidnap so-called commentators and broadcast calm, well-reasoned discussions of the issues of the day. We will not try for “balance” by hiring fruitcakes; we will try for balance by hiring non-ideologues who have carefully thought through the issues. We are Unitarian Jihad. We will appear in public places and require people to shake hands with each other. (Sister Hand Grenade of Love suggested that we institute a terror regime of mandatory hugging, but her motion was not formally introduced because of lack of a quorum.) We will require all lobbyists, spokesmen and campaign managers to dress like trout in public.

Televangelists will be forced to take jobs as Xerox repair specialists. Demagogues of all stripes will be required to read Proust out loud in prisons. We are Unitarian Jihad, and our motto is: “Sincerity is not enough.” We have heard from enough sincere people to last a lifetime already. Just because you believe it’s true doesn’t make it true. Just because your motives are pure doesn’t mean you are not doing harm. Get a dog, or comfort someone in a nursing home, or just feed the birds in the park. Play basketball. Lighten up. The world is not out to get you, except in the sense that the world is out to get everyone.

Brother Gatling Gun of Patience notes that he’s pretty sure the world is out to get him because everyone laughs when he says he is a Unitarian. There were murmurs of assent around the room, and someone suggested that we buy some Congress members and really stick it to the Baptists. But this was deemed against Revolutionary Principles, and Brother Gatling Gun of Patience was remanded to the Sunday Flowers and Banners committee.

People of the United States! We are Unitarian Jihad! We can strike without warning. Pockets of reasonableness and harmony will appear as if from nowhere! Nice people will run the government again! There will be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Those that mess with children or the elderly should be castrated with a rusty hacksaw the killed 7 days later.

By Sheila

May 18, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

Why in the heck are we even discussing this?!

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Normie,

Like I said God does answer prayers. That means I do not have to deal with such a fool again…….

By Tim

May 18, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

careful Bruce

Matthew 5:22… “… But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.”

should choose your words wisely

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 18, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Spicegurl, thanks for the much needed attitude adjustment. Just one question though. Is resistance futile?

By DB

May 18, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

We should all band together and buy out CBS to have a conversational talkshow in place of the cancelled “60 Minutes” show due to “”ratings”” being low. We’d probably have to call it “180 Minutes” though.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

DB, good idea. Norm cane be the devil’s advocate.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Funny how Randy never answered my question about sex for procreation only. My guess is he is a sinner. (Zack probably not!)

By LaShelle

May 18, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Well, I see I missed quite a bit today. Damn me for working! LOL

By LaShelle

May 18, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

DB, I’m in, just let me know when production starts. I can be the “young people’s representative”!

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks Tim, Normie I apologize. You are not a fool just WRONG!!!!

By Netbanker

May 18, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

Jack…you’re being too kind with the offer of a hacksaw. The castration should take place with something more appropriately painful like using a rusty SPOON.

Lyrazel…very well said about Finger Pointing and Volunteering. My own company could be the Olympic Finger Pointing training center. I’m used to working in environments where it’s been recognized that FP isn’t productive. Just identify what caused the problem and figure out how not to do it again. At the end of the day the client (who for Congress are the American People) doesn’t care WHO screwed up so long as it gets fixed and you don’t continue to screw up the same things over and over. We all sink or swim together.

Most people seem to have what I call the Eddie Murphy attitude from one of his old comedy albums. The question asked is “What have you done for me lately?” Rather than ask what someone else has done for you we should maybe ask what we can do for someone else. The idea of ‘pay it forward’ is a great one. I have opened my own home numerous times to people I really haven’t known all that well and in each case I have gained a dear friend. To know that I have helped someone get back on their own feet is a good feeling and knowing that should my own fortunes be reversed one day they will be there for me is great. I won’t need to rely on the government because I’ve built my own social safety net.

By Bob

May 18, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

One of the most popular themes in the forum of political discussion, and usually the object of profuse castigation, is the perceived agenda of the “religious right.” We hear scattered quotations from the likes of its chief commanders, such as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and James Dobson among others. The purpose of peppering us with these comments is to convince us that these men are leading a virtual movement of conquest. They are giving marching orders to their glazed-eyed automatons, telling them to reclaim America by every conceivable means just short of death squads…er well, depending who you talk to. You can’t go very far today without being embroiled in the debate about whether or not America was founded as a “Christian Nation,” as if this was the only relevant factor in determining where we ought to go from here. I believe is it a misguided assumption in the first place to say that we can only go in a certain direction because we must realign ourselves with the past. Of course, those who would say America was founded on secular humanism will attempt to construct a patchwork quilt out of a few scattered historical citations that ultimately leave their blanket full of holes. They depend on eclectic phrases from memoirs of a few Founders Fathers and completely ignore the traditions and zeitgeist of the populace in stating what America’s foundations actually were. But that is another discussion. The new buzzword used by the media to describe a cultural movement that desires to return to its religious roots is known as “dominionism.” Many use this term to encompass both Fundamentalism and Christian Reconstruction. There are some common threads and dissimilarities between Fundamentalism and Christian Reconstruction, but a compare and contrast is well beyond the scope of this piece, and strays from the point I’m attempting to make. Suffice it to say that any movement led by Robertson, Falwell, and others seeks to incorporate moral conservatives who are beyond the pale of orthodox Protestantism. This movement decried by liberals attempts cultural renovation by promoting a social milieu based upon Judeo-Christian moral standards. Our second president, John Adams, observed that “…our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.” The very propriety of self-government was contingent on the application of certain behavioral principles and foundational assumptions, and without the devotion to those restraints we would eventually plunge into rampant license and chaos that would undermine liberty itself. Liberals loath such restraints as an encumberment on their personal autonomy. When they make “separation of church and state” arguments, they tell us that the Declaration of Independence (with its four references to God) has no contemporary legal applicability. Yet when they want to convert what were once vices into civil rights, they appeal to the clause “the pursuit of happiness” found in the Declaration. Breathtakingly inconsistent, but effective if you can pull it off. If they only knew how Blackstone defined the term “pursuit of happiness” in his legal commentaries. Orthodox Christians and other moral conservatives share in common the concept of cultural stewardship. The reason why Christians are so interested in “converting” people is both a concern over their souls and because it is the appropriate method of changing culture—through changing people’s hearts. Gentle persuasion is the means by which culture is shaped without any violent upheavals. And yet these people are continuously accused of foisting an agenda on others as they attempt to live out their cultural mandate. But how does any group affect their own understanding of positive change in a governmental system built on republican principles? By building coalitions, consensus, and trying to persuade others to embrace their thinking — just as they have the right to do, and as any other group with special interests are inclined to do. Why does lobbying to change a law, remonstration for a particular moral standard, or protesting and decrying a perceived injustice only become sinister and unacceptable when the practice is engaged in by moral conservatives? This is the very intolerance of the highest order constantly condemned by cultural liberals. Unfortunately, to gain the support of the uncommited majority entrenched in the fuzzy middle, it is necessary to create caricatures depicting “fundamentalists” as a mob of desperate Carpathian peasants seeking to find Dracula’s coffin in the last few moments before dusk. We can almost see the throngs of wild-eyed vigilantes, stalking the countryside armed with their torches and pitchforks in preparation for a little “moral cleansing.” This becomes a necessary depiction, because if people generally did what many liberals claim the religious right never does, “think for themselves,” they would seldom come to the conclusions that are helped along by the gratuitous vilifications. Add to that the propensity to throw around labels like Gestapo, Taliban, and Fascist and you not only trivialize the people who actually suffered at the hands of these terrorist ideologues, but you desensitize people to the true travesty these organizations represent. This hyberbole only assures that those who spew it won’t be taken seriously. Go back 50 years and you will see “In God We Trust” added to the Pledge; the Bible, non-sectarian prayer, and the Ten Commandments still in schools; abstinence being taught with few pregnancies out of wedlock; sodomy banned in every state; and same-sex marriage unthinkable. It is hard for me to believe anyone would be so foolish to say we are on the cusp of a dangerous theocracy, or even a benevolent one at that, when we have migrated far in the opposite direction. The resurgence of religious values didn’t happen in a vacuum, but is a response to a disintegrating culture. Yes, as a conservative Christian I have an agenda. So does every liberal and everyone in between. If you can’t live with that reality, maybe you should change — maybe you’re the one to fear. But nothing is so dangerous as unwarranted paranoia.

By vonnie

May 18, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Now here’s a subject for a Ronald Millsaps comment. Where is he when we need a bizarre and irrational response?

By Jack

May 18, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

Wow Bob, I’ll bet your fingers are sore after that one.

By norman

May 18, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Brucie: I don’t want your apology just because Tim the wood-be gay saint quoted you a passage from the bible. You are a fool and I have no compunction about saying so. All Christians are fools or knaves or both. Remember that phrase: fools or knaves or both.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

On a serious note, one thing about getting older is realizing that the morales of society are going downhill. Who has not heard their parents say that? Our parents said it and their parents said it probably was said all the way back to Adam & Eve. Man can and will end up destroying himself but Mother Earth will survive. Hopefully, a few of us humans will survive and remember what happened and past it on to their offspring.

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

But you are still WRONG Normie. How is this for thinking on my own. I think I will pray for you.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Norman, do you detest all organized religion as much as Christianity or are we special?

By DB

May 18, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Bob: Just remember, you don’t have to be a Christian or believe in God to be a good, moral person. That’s where it all goes wrong. The agenda of the Religious Right is to save everyone from evil as if religion is the only answer. That is wrong. I’m sorry, but I don’t want my government making decisions for me based more upon religious creed than upon reason. And last I checked, this is a goverment that is made by the people for the people, not by Christians for Christians. All the references to God in our documents of the past are simply a reflection of how people thought back then when they were even more narrow-minded. Also, you can believe in God while at the same time be something other than Christian. The agenda of your “secular movement” is not to eliminate the Christian faith, as many Christians believe, but to simply ask that they get as much credibility as the Sectarian movement. There’s absolutely no reason the two can’t coexist as it has. 50 years ago was not all that because everyone was religious. It was great simply because most people were on the same page as far as expectations and beliefs, not necessarily religion. That doesn’t mean it was right or correct. We have the chaos we do today because individualism has reached a point where ignorance, instant gratification, and self-glorification have become virtues, which if you ask me was a result of the past 40 years of ostracizing the non-believers instead of accepting their views. Society doesn’t spiral into chaos because of the lack of religion. As you quoted, “Gentle persuasion is the means by which culture is shaped without any violent upheavals.”. What about Iraq? If I remember correctly, the religious right are the major supporters of action in Iraq. That is far from gentle. I’m sorry, but as you call others hippocrits, you’re taking a swim in the same waters. Now the Bible thumpers are arguing against the whole concept of science needing to be redefined. When is this insanity going to stop! Should we throw away all our scientific advances in the past 300 years? It is absolutely ridiculous. China and India are going to be the next superpowers because they have invested a great deal in science while we’re fighting against it within our own borders. The scientific education of America has been dumbed down to the point where most people don’t even know why it’s warmer in the summer than the winter. All of this is because of misinterpreted cryptic phrases in the Bible that were written during a time when religion was government, a time I would not want to repeat!

Although I respect your opinions, I don’t agree with them.

By Tim

May 18, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

hahahaha… that was really funny Norman… I am the wood-be gay saint… must say I have been called worse… that was pretty funny… I think I am going to put that on a bumper sticker and put it on my car

Bruce… I used to be really bad about calling people fools… some shared that verse with me… I was like oops guess I will change me tune now!

By Scott

May 18, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

I see in my hiatus that not much has changed in the religious bashing by Norman and the crusade by Bruce….

Jack - there is no such thing as reverse discrimination…that implies only one group can be discriminatory, which is obviously not correct.

As for illegals, the assumption that most of them come by plane is incorrect. Lyrazel is also accurate in saying that Mexicans, while the majority, are not the only illegals in this country en masse. As for stiffer fines for companies written in to law? Well, they already exist, they just aren’t enforced because when they have been, the companies immediately ask for Congressional help to aleviate the penalty for their wrongdoing.

Vicente Fox has allowed our country to be flooded. He is not a friend of this government, period. He has allowed mexican states to issue pamphlets on how to ILLEGALLY enter this country safely.

There are over 250,000 aggravated illegal felons in this country. They go first. Then start with the rest of the illegals, regardless of their country of origin (Mexico, Korea, China, Guatemala, etc.) During that period, recall the 3rd and 4th Infantry Divisions from Iraq, place them along the open border to guard it while construction crews build a hard border consisting of a 15 foot high, 10 foot wide concrete wall with guard towers every 1/4 mile (razor wire would be a nice touch too) with break points only at the established ports of entry. When we finish that, we can start on the Canada border (the prefered border for SE Asian illegals).

this will allow us to take care of hard working Americans first and reduce drug trafficking severely (since only marijuana and meth are really home grown…with about 1% of psychotropic drugs thrown in)

I think that would be a nice start…

By paul

May 18, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

Paula Abdul is not black. She is the daughter of Abdullah the Butcher.

By Lola

May 18, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Holy Moley! I missed out on a lot of good discussions today!

What is the website where you can go to see the list of child molesters in your area? I have a one year old daughter and that stuff scares me to death.

Bob - excellent post! I agree completely that the faltering American moral fabric started to rip and tear when it became okay to remove every hint of God from all things.

By DB

May 18, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Scott: You have some great points! The only problem about the huge concrete fence is that in order to get it done we’d have to hire illegals to build it since no one would want to pay a lot for it. :) I guess we could raid corporations who are hiring illegals, fine them, and then use that money to build it. At any rate, the wall is long overdue.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Scott, where have you been? One that has sense on this blog is missed. Been out catching bad guys? (and I know there really is no reverse discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination. Affirmative action is just a legal form of it too)

By Tim

May 18, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Lola

go to http://www.ganet.org/gbi/disclaim.html and scroll down to the bottom… there is a list for sex offenders and also a list of predators as well… this is not the site I used as my mom is in Fl… but this if from the GBI so I would feel confident in the accuracy of the site… hope this helps!

By Scott

May 18, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

DB - no problem, just reallocate the money we spend on troop deployment in Iraq (rebuilding them, etc) to the tune of whichever $87 billion allotment you like and we can pay for the AMERICAN labor to build the wall…Problem solved!!

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 18, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Bob, intriguing post. Two questions: What caricature are you using to describe liberals? If paranoia is warranted, is it no longer paranoia, but an agenda?

Lots of people were disenfranchised in the 50s through no fault of their own. Lots of people are disenfranchised now, mostly the poor, quickly encroaching to the middle classes, who are blamed and punished for their condition, regardless of their religious convictions. This administration is not using any restraint in pushing its agenda, despite being the majority, thereby continuing the devisiveness. The Democrats will fight back the only way that has survived, by slowing things down.

Bill Moyer commented that the American Eagle needs a left and a right wing to fly well. We would do well to remember that.

By Scott

May 18, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Jack - thanks for the welcome back….to be honest work has been insane and the conversations were degenerating to much into the religion/anti-religion deal..but I do appreciate the comments!

By Lee

May 18, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

I think a better question for next week should be: “Should the White House respond to allegations made by Newsweek regarding treatment of the Islamic Holy book?”

You have an administration that, who by most accounts, was using misinformation regarding weapons of mass destruction to formulate a war against Iraq. And now they decry a magazine for reporting information that was deemed reliable and was submitted to the Pentagon for review?

Yes, that is a more important question. Along with the questions “Why did the administration pick and choose the information it used for war, and ignore the stacks of information that said Iraq had nothing to do with it?”

By vonnie

May 18, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t respect opinions that run counter to my own. If I did, I would change my opinions. I do tolerate opposing views, but respect—I reserve that for what seems right and true.

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Scott,

If you call standing for my beliefs and not allowing someone like Normie to intimidate me a crusade then so be it.

I agree with your wall suggestion, when do we start. Could we electrify the razor wire?

By Scott

May 18, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

Bruce - crusade was used in the historical context, settle down…as far as the elctricity, that might end up being cost prohibitive, but I am all for using dogs…lots of rescued dogs and animals shelters out there

By Netbanker

May 18, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

Sandy/Sanhan…loved your posts last week. Very appreciated.

DB…I don’t understand the basis in certain religiously conservative circles for the idea that science and religion are mutually exclusive. Creationism vs. Evolution is a perfect example of this conflict. My father is quite firm in his religious conviction and was also a very succesful chemical engineer and scientist. His explanation to me as a child was that science can help us understand and explain the HOW and WHAT of the universe. Religious belief addresses the WHY. The more one explores and understand the complexities of universe the more likely one is to come to the realization that there is more at work than random occurence. This scenario confirms in my own mind that many conservative religious peoples put limits on God. Is it that hard a stretch to think that evolution is part of God’s plan?

By norman

May 18, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

All, religion is alienating but Christianity is more fraudulent than most of the others.

By Netbanker

May 18, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

Vonnie…why does respecting another’s opinion mean that you need to change your opinion? It seems that without the respect component I would question whether the other person is really listening to and considering what I am saying with an open mind that willing to consider the possibility of changing opinion. I can respect the thought and position of another person, but still respectfully disagree with them.

By vonnie

May 18, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

Isn’t ‘warranted paranoia’ an oxymoron; if so, how can it become a bonafide entity? (ie, an agenda) To think creatively, I would consider a better way to think of such a state (warranted paranoia) as 1) to be understandably and wisely leery 2) to be street smart and realize what dangers really lurk out there or 3) to paraphrase Bugs Bunny, “warranted paranoia may not be an unwarranted assumption”.

By Lola

May 18, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

You rock, Tim! I appreciate it a lot! :)

Scott, it sure is nice to see you back again. There are really only one or two on here (no names mentioned, norman) who do the religion/anti-religion bashing, so just ignore them like the rest of us do and this blog will remain a wonderful place.

As for the wall, I am all for it. It’s sad that it has to come to that, but it’s obvious that Bush is completely not on board when it comes to making our borders safer and more secure. That seems like a total contridiction to his “war on terrorism” stance, and I don’t get that.

By Tim

May 18, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Lola… you are very welcome… definitely a site that every parent in Georgia should be familiar with

By Scott

May 18, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Lola - thanks! good to see you too! Yeah, I agree with you on the lack of border security. And the plan I said should have no effect on free trade since that is to be done through the designated ports anyway

By Scott

May 18, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

Tim - my brother looked up that site (he has a one year old) and it scared the crap out of him…as it should!!

By Lyrazel

May 18, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Somehow folks, I dont think you really understand HOW MUCH LAND we would have to wall to wall us up. Yeah, the comment about getting illegals to build it really made me laugh. From CA to TX—or are you thinking of walls from WA to ME? Instead of barriers why dont we just buy Mexico? Would probably cost as much as a fence but then who would you gripe about? Canadians? Its always somebody….

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

OK dogs it is.

By DB

May 18, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: That is exactly my point. Maybe I didn’t explain it well enough. Science and religion two separate issues altogether, and it’s sad that the religious view science and a threat(and the scientific view religion as a threat-less common), or at least that they are mutually exclusive. Too many fanatics still listen to the “anti-science” bull while they go to the doctor and receive treatment that is based on pure science, or they fly in a plane that was designed based on pure science. We need to get over that, plain and simple. Our whole dilemma with society today is a similar paradigm where reason and religion are seen as mutually exclusive when they are not.

By Scott

May 18, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel…what’s your solution, just dissolve the US and make it one world??? 2,000 miles of concrete is a heck of a lot less expensive than the billions the problem costs us in other ways

By Bruce

May 18, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Or maybe we could recall our troups and just go take Mexico and Canada. That would take hardly no time and very little money. Just kidding!

By Tim

May 18, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

Scott… it made my stomach turn to see how many there were that lived around my mom’s house… scary what you have to do to try and keep your children safe… I am glad that they have those sites though… most people (including me) don’t think that sex offenders would be living around them… but looking at that site definitely gave me a shock!!!

By Lee

May 18, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Yes, the solution would be to give Mexico so much money that there would be no need for Mexicans to illegally cross our borders. This would also work for all those coming through Mexico from Central and South America. They would all aim for Mexico instead of the US!

We could give them so much money, we could add Mexico as the 51st-79th states. (as Mexico has 29 states… according to the very quick web search I did)

By DB

May 18, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

Scott: As for paying for the wall, I was going to suggest pulling out of Iraq and spending the money on that, but that’s just out of the question with our myopic society. It’s now close to $120 for Iraq alone. Georgie just asked for another $84B or so for the two. It’s sad if you ask me.

Lyrazel: The Great Wall of China was built by hand! Many other borders in many other countries throughout history have been extremely successful as far as stopping the crossing or significantly reducing it. With all the technology and wealth, we could rather easily seal the Mexican border with any sort of structure. And we definitely could use surveillance technologies and a man every quarter mile or so as Scott suggested to stop any others. Look at our accomplishments; Interstate System, Hoover, Cities, etc. A better border is definitely possible. But, again, our government doesn’t want that, or it would have done it long ago.

By Scott

May 18, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

Tim - yeah I hear ya…I did a case once on child porn guys…over 90% of the ones I was looking at (over 40 at the time) lived within 3-5 blocks of an elementary or middle school!!!!

By Jack

May 18, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Mike Savage had a good idea, charge mexico 1 barrel of oil for each illegal that crosses our borders.

By norman

May 18, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

I would like to apologize to everyone on this blog for being such a huge a*s-munch and for my never ending quest for attention and recognition. I’m a disgusting putz, but my heart is in the right place.

By Lola

May 18, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

Oh I like that idea, Jack! Mike Savage isn’t always my favorite, but every once in a while he comes out with something that just might work.

Here’s another idea - provide housing and food to all illegals who come over here in exchange for them handing over their paychecks to us. That would make sure that we keep track of them AND that the money they’re sending back to Mexico would stay in our country and go towards our own economy.

By Scott

May 18, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

Jack -heheheh yeah I like that one! Myself, I would love it if we were almost completely without need for oil at all and make that part of the world a worthless sandbox!

By Lyrazel

May 18, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

And how much is construction of 2,000 miles of a 22ft high wall? Do you know how massive a project that would be? Years. Trillions of dollars—trillions spent on land surveys—on waste management—And how much is maintenance of 2,000 miles of wall?—Trillions—And how about the cost of policing those 2,000 miles? Ha! We just hire airport security folks, right?

And…what to do about illegals? Ha! Cant have low prices/cheap goods/cheap labor if you dont want illegals…so ask what it is this nation wants? If it wants Americans working at decent wages—and all legal—then your large and small corporations will have to start checking their payroll—right? Your big developers will have to check their contractors. The onion growers in Vadalia will need to pay minimum wage and overtime to legal Americans, tomato growers…and perhaps if our businesses did not encourage hiring the lowest wage possible we might…actually DO SOMETHING. We wont. Its profit before morality running American business and politicians eat the crumbs lobbyists toss their way—to get elected…no wonder they sold out Medicare to pharmaceutical companies…

By Tim

May 18, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Scott… bless you for the work you do!!! I am sure you do not hear that enough!!! THANK YOU

By vonnie

May 18, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

To Netbanker: I have been very attentive while listening to opinions of others that, to me, had no merit whatsoever. While I respect a person’s right to have any opinion whatsoever, that is a far cry from respecting someone else’s opinion. If someone proffers an opinion that makes me think, consider and reevaluate my own position, then I respect that person’s opinion. Opinions can be based on absolutely nothing of substance. One based on substance, reflection, study gets my attention. I listen; I learn, and possibly reevaluate my own opinion. But all opinions are not created equally, and most I hear don’t even deserve the time I take to listen. In the age of political correctness, I know it expected that you should respect everything, every person, every opinion, every religion, etc. Such a worldview sounds comparable to beer that has been left out and open for days; it is flat, tasteless and fit for nothing but fungus.

By Scott

May 18, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Tim - thanks..that is nice of you to say and very nice to hear.

Lyrazel…any better solutions you might have? I’m all ears. Yes, it would be expensive but no more so than the myriad of issues we have to deal with based on illegal immigration. (health care, law enforcement, job loss, drug trafficking, etc., etc.) as for manning it, you already have those people on the border, they just have too much open area to cover right now. I do agree with you on one point, however….this country doesn’t want to solve the problem. As a society we are too conditioned that everyone needs to be a millionaire or it just ain’t enough. (just look at our infatuation with sports stars, actors, singers, etc)

How about having a few more products/services that are AMERICAN made? How about not out-sourcing jobs? (Dell customer service in INDIA???) How about a self sufficient country? I think we should/could level the playing field but for one thing that is very American…greed

By NORMAN

May 18, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

ANOTHER MESSAGE HAS COME FROM A PSEUDO-NORMAN. i REALIZE THIS IS SIMPLY AN ATTEMPT TO SHUT ME UP. bUT REALLY, WHY SHOULD i CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE HERE? yOU ARE ALL A PACK OF FOOLS OR KNAVES OR BOTH. fAIRWELL.

By Jack

May 18, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

No way was that the real Norman in the 4:03 post. Randy was that you?

By RS

May 18, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Oh boy, I, too, am a Michael Savage fan although there are a few issues I don’t see eye-to-eye with him about about (abortion, gay marriage, that sort of thing)

By spicegurl

May 18, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Bruce, humans have always created gods in their image and made them what they wanted them to be. We are doing nothing new. The hebrews created a cruel god who condemned all of humanity because Adam and Eve ate an apple. Until they ate it they didn’t know the difference between right and wrong but they were punished anyway. Not only were they punished but all of humanity was sentenced to death because they ate an apple! They created a god who told them to take the land they wanted and murder everyone except the virgins who they could keep for themselves! Then later they created another god; this god changes his mind and decides to give humanity another chance. Instead of just saying, “Oops, made a mistake, think I’ll rescind that order!” he sends himself/his son to suffer a horrible death to save only people who can accept fairy tales as truth. He/his son told people they should not worry about food or clothing but stand in the field like a lily and wait to be clothed and fed among many other silly things. He cursed a fig tree because it didn’t bear fruit in winter. He did that, conveniently, in front of the disciples so they could report later that the tree was withered. Jesus must have been a great showman. Finally, he was turned in by one of his own disciples and suffered a horrible death on a cross to save us all from the condemnation which he inflicted on us in the first place! Then he comes back to life and talks with the woman Mary Magdalene at the tomb. But, although she has followed him and stayed with him while he’s on the cross (while all his male followers turned tail and deserted him), for some reason she doesn’t even recognize him when he starts talking to her! Jesus told his followers that the end would come before their generation passed away. The end still hasn’t come. How many generations has it been now? In the discussion today the thing came up about calling someone a fool. Jesus said don’t call anyone a fool or you’re in danger. Then a few verses later he calls people fools. So should we do as he says Bruce, or should we do as he does? Just because you choose to believe folk tales written thousands of years ago making up gods are true doesn’t make it true.

By lozen

May 18, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this

Spicegurl, fantastic post! What theology school did you attend? We absolutely do make our god in our image. The closest I can come to defining god is “a great mystery beyond understanding.” And don’t forget, there were hebrews who understood that in ancient times and would not write or pronounce a word for god because they knew it was a mystery that could not be named. There have always been the “sheeple” and there have always been the mystics who understand religion on a much deeper level.

By Lyrazel

May 19, 2005 07:56 AM | Link to this

Scott, you mentioned Dell in India. Yes, why not have customer service reps in a country that does not require payment of standard benefits an American would get—or any pensions—or any overtime—you see, most major companies go where labor is cheap. Dell is there, Delta is there, American Airlines is there, HP is there, name a company that still has phone-bank service in America? Your sunday funnies page is printed overseas, probably Guam/Indonesia. How about that! Its cheaper to print overseas—and has been printed overseas for at least the past 12 years! Did you know? Wink, wink. Its not cheap in the USA. Its not cost-effective to hire Americans to build houses if they want overtime, health insurance, 401Ks. Jobs have left the country—and wont be back. Is India to fault for putting its people to work? Heck no—the business is hiring. Now, do you own a Dell computer? Ownership is part of the problem—we SAY we dont want illegals—but we BUY the Dell computers, the Levis jeans, we fly on Delta, and buy the hundred thousand products that were once made in America. Zell Miller got a great tax break for Home Depot to import ceiling fans from China. The ones made in the USA were too expensive compared to the goods they could get, so Zell not only allowed the store to ignore American made products—then gives HD a big tax break. Wink, wink politics. Worse to me is most people really dont understand how much is being shipped overseas. We have recently learned Medicare/welfare records were being jobbed out by NJ to a business in Wisconsin whose work-force was outside the country. An American working in Canada recently blew the whistle about America Defense software being jobbed to Canada—so we dont even write our own government software—how safe is that? England and Canada make most of your prescription drugs—we import vaccine from Europe. So if they mess up—or have an epidemic—we wont be able to care for our own! But they get huge tax breaks! See? One of the reasons european goods are so expensive is because they are still made by europeans. What is made by Americans? Dig deep in your closet—is anything MADE in the USA? Any fabric? Stitched—assembled—you get my drift. Shoes? How about those really expensive sport shoes/or ladies shoes? Made in USA? Seldom. Its only when Americans start dumping cheap goods that businesses will change. They wont—so expect to deal with wink, wink, illegals for the rest of your life.

By Bruce

May 19, 2005 08:20 AM | Link to this

Spicegurl, Could you give me the scripture where Jesus told His followers the end would come before their generation was passed away? I would love to read it.

By Bruce

May 19, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel,

Way to go, I purchased a fishing lure this morning and was surprised (not too surprised) to see it was made in China. Could it be that Americans have Unionized themselves out of a job? If so, then it is the workers that are to blame. But then again can you blame them for wanting their peice of the pie. Since there is snough money being made the CEO’s and Stockholders are swimming in money the adverage worker just wants her/his share.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

Bruce, That’s the same reason professional athletes are overpaid, well considered overpaid. Without Unions people simply wouldn’t have jobs, at least not worthwhile jobs.

By Vince

May 19, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Ben, the athletes and actors/actresses are overpaid. I know a firefighter that has to work two jobs to make ends meet. Why should somebody who is portraying a person (usually not that well) deserve 1 million to 25 million dolalrs while another person is running into a burning building risking his or her life to save another human being deserve a fraction of that?

By Ben

May 19, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

Vince, blame society. I’m just saying that I don’t blame them for wanting their piece of the pie. If the owner of movie or music label, or the owner of a baseball team is making a Gazillion dollars, why shouldn’t the athletes or actors get a sizable percentage. Afterall they are doing the work and drawing the revenue. People complain about it, but people pay $10 (minus popcorn) to see the movies and pay $30 (minus the beer) to go watch the athletes.

An athlete or actor shouldn’t make as much as a fireman, teacher or someone in the military. But last time I checked, the city doesn’t make money off of burning buildings, education doesn’t necessarily generate millions of dollars either. I would like the say the same thing about war, but war actually boils down to money. So I guess the people that are REALLY getting screwed are the servicemembers.

By Vince

May 19, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

So what would happen if those services dissolved because the workers are tired of being abused? Who would calm the crowds down when celebrities are around? Who would maintain the order at the sporting events? Who would educate the athletes? Who would protect us? Charity events should be held by all of those people to raise money to donate to the police department, the fire department, the military. That is nice to donate your time to give a concert to the people at the war (usually a publicity stunt). But why not donate money? I often wonder how police keep their morale.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

Well the majority of them keep their morale because of the reason they took on their jobs in the first place. They, just like teachers, “chose” their jobs because they wanted to make a difference, or they wanted to help people. If they were in it for the money, well, they wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

And you will find that a majority of professional athletes and actors DO donate their time and money to worthy causes. Several have even established their own foundations or organzations to support worthy causes.

Giving to charity is not always the saintly thing to do. For example, some of the law enforcement branches hire outside businesses to do their fundraising — and you’d be surprised at how much of the donations actually go the companies rather than the cause. That’s a whole new topic!

By Randy

May 19, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Spicegirl is making up stuff and Iozen loves it. Fiction that’s the way to live life.

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Not only are we sending over 85% of our money to China, India, and other coutries in the form of cheap goods and discounted labor, we are also at the same time empowering them to become the next Superpowers. Here in America, most are too worried about buying every little thing for as little as possible and too proud to settle for less pay and more work to realize we’re financing our own scary fate. Our endless quest for higher pay and lower prices will make us completely dependent upon other countries. And what happens when those countries, when they can survive on their domestic economies, simply boycott or significantly reduce trade with the U.S. because our foreign policy perturbs one of them? They simply cut our economic throat, and before you know it, where not doing so well in the world. And where all in chaos here because everyone wants a cushy job with great pay, and no one will be willing to change because the deeply ingrained sense of entitlement everyone has around here. That’s a scary scenario to me, and who’s to say it won’t happen.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Ben professional athletes are paid what the market bears. The owner gets his cut and the athletes get their cuts. When people think about overpaid athletes they think about football and basketball players not athletes in other sports. People pay what they pay for tickets,satellite sports packages,etc. and this is what is used to pay the owners, and athletes. When a person sees an athlete not playing hard in their opinion they start talking about making them “earn it”. Anger usually comes up when their team is losing. Some fan mentality is just plain stupid and yes, racist. The owners threaten to move and charge thousands just for the right to buy a ticket and yet there is no outrage or anger toward these owners. I sat next to a guy that had a permanent seat license and I did not buy anything but that ticket. Anyway I wonder why no outrage at a guy making 20 million dollars for a movie. Hollywood uses the same concept. People pay what they pay for movie tickets,videos,dvds, etc. and the owners,distributors,actors,etc. are paid their cut. People get ripped off so many ways legally but because of prejudice we only complain people we don’t like. Michael Graham,a conservative writer wrote that we use the death penalty to execute people we don’t like and that’s why he’s against it. His point was that the death penalty isn’t about punishing the guilty but an extension of our prejudices. That concept runs through the attitude of people in just about everything.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 19, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

But Randy, it doesn’t matter if something is actually true or not; what matters is whether people believe it’s true, then it becomes true in its consequences. That’s why some of us know and keep believing that that we’re co-creators with God, because it will be true in its consequences. In this model even secular humanism can do its part to alleviate suffering and distribute resources more fairly, as can all other religions if we highlight the mercy and compassion components rather than who is “right” and what is absolute.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

Unions are the reason companies are outsourcing jobs overseas. I know. I work in a union environment. They have overpriced themselves out of the market. They had their place 50 yrs ago. We don’t need them now. Unions nowadays are only good for enabling sorry workers to keep their jobs. Those good union workers with low seniority are on the street while those with high seniority are retired in place. Makes me sick. Union members are not judged by the job they do, they are judged by the amount of time they have been there. Makes me sicker.

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Ben: Thanks for the comment about teachers, but most of them lose their morale/passion because they are repeatedly abused by a system that doesn’t allow them to teach, and many are simply fearful of being in schools these days for fear of their lives. Then they are badmouthed by parents, students, and administrators on a daily basis, and they have to explain the reason for bad behavior or lack of motivation in kids because no one owns their actions anymore. It builds up until they can’t take it anymore, and then they switch careers. That is exactly why there is such a teacher shortage. But, again, it all boils down to the sense of entitlement that’s so prevalent.

By spicegurl

May 19, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Bruce, this is one of the places Jesus says this: Matthew 24: [32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: [33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. [35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Too bad the baseball owners didn’t have the gonads the NHL owners did. Yeah, they deserve the money.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Archie, pretty much what I was saying about athletes. The bottom line is still the same. The owners and athletes make so much because we give it to them. Imagine what the Braves would do if everybody decided just to watch all of the home games on TV. It will never happen, but what if? If every city with a MLB team did the same, do you think salaries would be so high?

If you look outside of the box, it’s pretty ignorant to compare salaries of firefighters and teachers to that of athletes and movie stars.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

Here’s another Bruce:

Mark.9 [1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Jack, I can’t agree with you more. Unions have become groups that make workers more lazy instead of just protecting them from corporate abuse, which is the reason why they were started in the first place. I’ve spent many years in a Union environment, and no one seemed to do their job making it a much less productive and more stressful place. I was threatened to slow down or face being put on the list, whatever that meant. Now I work in a non-union environment where everyone does their job, works hard, or loses their job. And the place is quite nice because of that. This is another reason why companies go overseas. This why you can buy a Japanese car(built in America) that will last 300K miles without a major problem and you buy an American car(usually built abroad) and you put more money into it than your house. And when you fix your own car, you don’t have to buy all these special Ford or GM tools that make you take it to the garage. And you can actually use only 2 or 3 different wrenches to change an engine instead of 50. Unions fight for a repair industry where they need problem cars to make billions on parts and labor, etc., etc. It drives me nuts.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

If you look outside of the box, it’s pretty ignorant to compare salaries of firefighters and teachers to that of athletes and movie stars.

Ben I agree with you and I wasn’t picking on you at all. Since I am a sports fan I read other internet blogs and you see the same bias’ that you see here. When I read Michael Graham’s comments about the death penalty months ago I thought he did a great job of explaining his opinion. He usually walks lockstep with George Bush but he will criticize conservatives. 60 Minutes did a story on payday loans last night and it showed how people end up paying 400 percent interest and this is legal. It showed how companies get around state laws to protect folk from loan sharking. I agree with some of the conservative folk on here that you must be stupid to commit violent crime to get money when you can legally rip people off and call it business. Good morals aren’t required to operate a business just good,slick, understanding of how to get that almighty dollar. Anyway the Nfl will eventually price itself out of a market but teachers still won’t be paid any better nor will firemen or policemen.

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

I have a feeling we’re going to lose our blog soon, I will work on creating a blog if people are interested in relocating.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

DB. I stand by teachers 100% because it is a tough job for any number of reasons, and yes the pay should probably be better. But from listening to a lot of teachers, and as you point out, their grievance is not necessarily with the pay.

Imagine how much everyone would make if their pay was based on conditions of the workplace and unruly co-workers or students?

By Brian Curtis

May 19, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

And don’t forget that overseas corporations are able to operate without all those pesky environmental and worker-safety laws, child labor restrictions, or minimum-wage and benefits requirements. They’re only workers, after all—why should their lives matter?

Damn those unions anyway! How DARE they interfere with the sacred pursuit of profit???

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

Here’s one for you Lozen: I say unto you, God has put forth a keyboard so that thou can maketh good use of it. And He has spoken pronouncing that religion hath been beaten with a stick on this blessed blog, so thou shall no longer bloggeth on the topics that have come to pass.

By spicegurl

May 19, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

Bruce, Luke 21:33

Jesus told his followers his return was imminent; he didn’t mean maybe in two or three thousand years! He said people who were there would not taste of death before his return. I think he was a religious/political revolutionary who wanted to change the Roman’s rule over the Jews. He has to be seen in context of the time, place, and political situation in which he lived. If people really read the Bible there would be no fundamentalist Christians. Except that fundamentalists switch: some things they take literally and insist they are absolutely true but other things they just dismiss and use that old tired “We just must have faith and it will all be revealed when we get to heaven.” And most Christians don’t really follow what Jesus said anyway. He was the person Christianity was based upon, although Paul was really the founder of Christianity. And most people who say they follow him, ignore what he actually said!

By DB

May 19, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

Ben: Yes, it’s pretty good pay considering the pay is for 10 months. It is definitely the wretched conditions that make teachers complain about pay. Teachers make good money, but maybe not what they should make with the conditions. No one really understands unless they’ve done it.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Here’s one for you DB: I say unto you, the Goddess put forth my keyboard so that I might maketh whatever use of it I may. I shall bloggeth on any topic which I thinketh I shall, with or without thy permission or interest.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

briancurtis, again you bring the voice of reason to this blog. A man with knowledge bringeth glory to any blog!

By DB

May 19, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Lozen: You’re right. I apologize. My bad.

By kimberly

May 19, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

You people are missing the point. It’s too late. It doesn’t matter. We are ALL going to Heck. Your yammering changes nothing. Your hard work changes nothing. Your struggle to understand and improve things changes nothing.

As a society, we have already destroyed ourselves. Not just the unions, not just the rich profiteers. Not just the religious wackos, even-keeled faithful, or scholarly athiests. ALL OF US. The dominoes are falling.

Now clap and cheer and wave your flags while you still have a minute.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

DB, teachers have to buy supplies such as printer cartrides that cost 100 bucks and other things out of their own money. You are right about the conditions not being ideal. Yes you can write off business expenses but you must have the money upfront. I don’t printer cartrides at my job and if I spend upfront for travel expenses then I am reimbursed. There are too many situations to discuss on an internet blog. I did like the post about cars. I have had a Ford Tempo and a Toyota Corolla and my Corolla needed much less repair than the Tempo did. I put so much money into that Tempo it was ridiculous. The Toyota Lexus topped the poll on quality recently.

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Simply put, Amercican cars suck period.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

Somebody needs to tighten the straps on Kimberly’s straight jacket.

By Bruce

May 19, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this

As the spouse of a teacher I can tell you that it is more that just the working condidtions. Do you know that if a teacher needs paper to print test or ink for that printer, or pencils, paper clips, staples, chalk, etc… they have to purchase it from their own pockets? These necessary supplies are not furnished by the schools. That they are not given compensation for time spent each night, at home, grading papers or preparing lesson plans?

By DB

May 19, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Hey Everyone: If we lose this great blog, I have another one set up. Kimberly, let’s at least consider this therapy! The site is dba.modblogs.com . I’m not sure exactly how it works yet, but all are invited if this one stops soon. I’m officially addicted!

By kimberly

May 19, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Fine, but I’m not taking those *&^%^%$ meds anymore!

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Vonnie…thank you for the clarification. What you said makes complete sense. Your position is like my own and that is what makes religious discussion so difficult at times. If two people do not share the same religion or belief system and the basis of one’s position is faith then it is often impossible to affect the other person’s opinion.

Randy…what Sandy and Spicegirl are saying does make some sense. The use of the Bible requires interpretation yet in doing so one inserts one’s own beliefs and prejudices into the equation because for almost every ‘rule’ in the Bible or religious document one can find a contradictory statement. For example there are many mentions in the Old Testament advising a punish of stoning someone to death, yet the 10 Commandments say that murder is a sin. Jesus’ position was one of forgiveness yet how can that be reconciled with punishment by death?

Outsourcing is one of the few ways that American companies can compete in a global economy in which most of the countries against which we compete have government provided health benefits. American companies must include that cost in the price of goods. We aren’t on a level playing field.

By spicegurl

May 19, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

DB, that’s nice that you apologized. But I see that all you men on “Woman to Woman” want to talk about other things. I am guilty of taking the bait from Bruce with his self righteous comment about God never changing. Christians like to make it sound so easy to know what God is and what God wants, when any person with an open mind knows that if you really read the Bible you will be more confused about what Yahweh is and what Yahweh wants. Randy I didn’t make up anything! I told the story in all it’s fantasy and superstition as it is set forth in the Bible. Maybe you should read it for yourself!

By DB

May 19, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

Kimberly: Think positively. In one way or another, all of these things we hate are self-adjusted by the conditions they create. People will get better or be forced to at some point. The pendulum always keeps swinging. And imagine your life if you simply ignored the news in all forms. I know I would worry much less and enjoy much more. I’m concerned about your obvious lack of hope.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, I understand your despair. I feel it myself sometimes. I watch documentaries about Rome and feel as if I am reliving the fall of that republic. Rome fell in part, because they drained all their resources with multiple wars. But everything that goes up must come down. England was a superpower. Spain was a superpower. Nobody and no country can stay on top forever.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

While recovering from surgery i was a substitute for my 5th graders class of 32 students. I gained a greater respect for teachers. They do need to make more money but they should not have their hands tied when it comes to unruly children. The principle of the Gwinette school that fired the teacher for usung grades as disipline should be fired.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

But Bruce, the fact that they are coming out of their pocket to pay for these supplies does not demand they make more money. It demands that the defunct education systems worry less about benefits and pay for the board and focus on the needs of the education system. That starts with the individuals in the classroom and the classroom itself.

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

spicegurl…you hit the nail on the head with your assessment of the problem with a literal reading of the Bible. There are contradictions contained within the book and one must always interpret. Another problem is that we do not read this ancient text in context of the socio-political-economic-cultural times in which it was written in order to understand the message intended. Once correctly understood it can be applied to modern circumstances…which still requires some level of interpretation, but at least with this methodology one is starting from a position of correct understanding rather than a flawed understanding. The other thing I can’t seem to grasp is the use of the old testament in order to justify positions held today. Since Jesus was the way to salvation and threw out all the old laws (i.e. Old Testament) then why is it still used to bash people? For example, how to defend the use of Leviticus to condem gay people if one doesn’t accept the entire set of rules in Leviticus which has directions for stoning people to death for various reasons and selling children into slavery?

By DB

May 19, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Spicegurl: I agree. I have read the Bible as I was raised by rigid Catholics. I even had to go to Church-school and all that. My conclusion is that it’s a book written thousands of years ago to lead the masses, and it’s simply too cryptic to make any sense to me, and I believe that’s why we have all the religious chaos today. To me there’s nothing worse than people who think they know what the Bible is saying. The language in itself allows for too much interpretation. Take any other book, and try to make 50 different meanings of any sentence. That’s what’s going on if you ask me. Some stuff it in it useful, but it’s also common sense. Much stuff relates to a time period we cannot understand, much less the language(translation after translation). That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in God, I just believe in a different way. Well, I guess I would consider the Universe to be my version of God. And we’re an integral part of it, and it’s incomprehensible. I believe Jesus lived, and he was a good man. Son of God? I don’t know, and I probably never will. My point is that faith is faith. Either you have it, or you don’t. I have Faith in the fact that I, or at least some type of self-aware entity, and you are here, along with all the other organisms. I also have faith that I will someday cease to exist and that I must try to make the best of it while the energy is flowing through me.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 19, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Kimberly—Like the phoenix we will rise from the ashes, hopefully wiser and kinder. Failure is impossible. Everything happens in cycles. This too shall pass, like a kidney stone, painful and bloody, but it will pass.

I hate this this post sounds so corny, but I’m sensing your despair is very real; I’m familiar with this, and I know it will not last. Just keep breathing.

We’re already in hell, but if we’re earnest, and I believe you are, our efforts are never wasted; sometimes we’re just not the best judges at measuring our own success. Besides, if you’ve already reached this level of despair, there’s nothing more to be afraid of. Think phoenix.

I offer this to anyone else who feels this pain, whether Democrat, Republican, conservative, liberal, religious, or not: Let the fact that you can still feel this pain be a sign of hope. But feeling better won’t come from competition, but from cooperation. Healing will not come from condemning or conquering each other, nor from reveling in another’s grief, but from the acknowledgement that we’re all hurting, and as long as one of us hurts, to some degree, we all do.

By DB

May 19, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Kimberly: At least view this as therapy. The pendulum is swinging, and things will get better. Or if you don’t believe that, all you have to do is turn off the TV and get off the Internet. Life will seem much better. I’m concerned for you.

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Lozen I came to the conclusion that one of our possible outcomes is exactly that we are playing our own end of Rome. You correctly point out the rising and falling of various empires throughout history. Arrogance usually begets a fall and with the direction of our leaders these days it’s a tough position to defend that they are not arrogant as all get out! Statements along the lines of ‘you’re with us or against us’ don’t show any amount of humility.

Spicegurl…you point out a good contradiction in the fundamentalist movements of all religions. They all have an extremely powerful, if not omnipotent, god and yet their strict adherence to rules and beliefs immediately puts human restrictions on the diety. Why is it so hard for these people to acknowledge that they can not know the ‘mind’ of a god who holds the keys to a universe that we barely understand?

By DB

May 19, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

Archie: Back to cars, you definitely owned the worst and best car. You couldn’t ask for a better comparison. Maybe if you owned a Taurus, it would have been worse. However, as the pendulum swings, American cars are getting better simply because they have to in order to compete. But until they drop the union mentality, they will never get as good as Japanese cars. If they don’t change you may not see GM or Ford in the futre, especially now that Japanese are making trucks.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this

They do need to make more money but they should not have their hands tied when it comes to unruly children. The principle of the Gwinette school that fired the teacher for usung grades as disipline should be fired.

Jack I agree with the first sentence but I don’t agree with the second because Neace had already given the student a perfect grade for work completed. It was district policy there as it is here in South Carolina that grades cannot be used as discipline. I don’t think to penalize work you’ve already been graded for. If Neace wanted to make a punishment then give the student extra work. Heck his purpose is to teach and the student is there to learn not be subject to some off-beat punishment. A teacher could use grades to punish someone they simply didn’t like. Teachers are human and are subject to likes and dislikes. If the young man did his assignment then grade on that period not go back and take away what he’s already earned. My spouse is a teacher and agreed with the district policy. I know Neace had that policy for years but it still doesn’t make it right. The supervisor can’t do anything on any job that I know of, they have to follow policy.

By kimberly

May 19, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Thanks y’all. Gridlock is getting to me. If you’re not the lead dog, the view is always the same: staring up someone else’s tailpipe, choking on the fumes.. Ten hours a week.. Hey, um… It would REALLY cheer me up if y’all would take those Bush/Cheney stickers OFF your cars already. Find a fresh new way to offend the libruls, mmm-kay? If you use a hair dryer to heat them, they peel right off — no scraping or solvents. But the smog IS killing us, right?

By DB

May 19, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: Good point. It’s the “mind” or “presence” of a “God” that matters. When people contradict themselves, it’s because they are too blinded to realize it. The “blinders” come in many forms. Here I go. Now I’m being cryptic.

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

DB…your statement about energy is one that should give you a level of hope about something after our earthly existence. We ‘know’ that energy is the one form of matter that can not be destroyed. It changes form. As our consciousness is driven by electrical impulses the energy flowing through us and that provide us with life must go somewhere when released from our bodies. If you’ve ever sat in the quiet with someone who dies you can actually feel that energy being released from them. The question then becomes whether it just scatters or remains bound to itself in some way.

By DB

May 19, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Archie: None of us know the whole story about Neace. IF it was a lab, and the kid was sleeping and pumped out a perfect score, then he was cheating because there’s no way he could have performed the lab. Then it was a participitory grade. Also, there was rumor, even if it wasn’t a lab, that Neace refused simply because he would lose his Teaching Certificate if he were to change the grade. Most likely, there was a lot more going on than we realize. It sounds to me like Neace has had issues with his boss in the past and did this to make a statement. Anyway, too bad for Neace. I still don’t think he should have been fired over a single assignment, and I don’t believe the kid should have made such a big deal about it in the first place, especially if he had an A average. It’s obvious with all his supporters that Neace isn’t out there to take advantage of his position.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Archie good point. What if said student refused to do the extra work? Corporal punishment was done away with, the parents don’t disipline their children, so what do we do? No wonder our fine state is 50th in education. Your spouse and most other teachers deserve credit for choosing that profession.

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

Kimberly the smog IS killing us. One of my offices is in Midtown and the brown haze that is visible once you get a few stories up is sickening. It can appear to be a hazy day on the ground and then you get up in the air and can actually see it. It’s just NASTY looking. Air should NOT have a texture to it.

I suggested to the ARC and all the other transit authorities that they should come to my building and take a look at the air when considering if we need to invest in trains or other forms of transportation to help get people out of their cars. I don’t think that most people realize what they are walking around in and breathing. What I don’t get are the numbers associated with resistance to trains when I talk to people who work in my office. All of those who don’t have that option tell me they would take the train in a heart beat if there was one to where they lived. Most of them live in Cobb and would gladly give up dealing with 75 every day. My company relocated me to primarily work out of Norcross and I HATE IT! I miss my MARTA train and 4.5 mile round trip commute to the station. One tank of gas lasted an entire month and that $52.50 for a monthly pass is pretty much half of what I have to spend on gas now. No it generally wasn’t faster than the car, but the 10-15 minute time savings was more than compensated for by being able to sit calmly with a mug of coffee and magazine for the morning commute. And probably safer for all the other drivers since I’m not much of a morning person.

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

DC/Archie, This boils down to something nobody’s acknoledged yet; parenting. If my son came home and said that he recieved half a grade because he was sleeping in class I would’ve told him that’s what he deserved and made him take some responsibility for his actions. Nowadays, parents are too prone to just jump down the teacher’s throat without making their child accountable for their actions. Especially athletes.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, you hit the nail on the head. We need parents with your attitude!

By DB

May 19, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: The energy is lost mostly as heat, movement, electricity, sound , etc. It passes through us throughout life starting from the chemical energy in our food, and when we die, it actually ceases to pass through us and become released. Then the rest of the chemical energy stored in us is released as heat and work done when the bacteria, fungi, and insects break us down. So, if you ask me, it definitely scatters. It’s the energy that boggles my mind, and the consciousness that it creates. The body definitely doesn’t release energy upon death, but it may release some type of consciousness or energy we don’t yet understand. But it is all part of a bigger universe we don’t understand, maybe a little bit of how. But “why” will never be known. I’m ok with that. And my real curiosity lies where the formation of “I” and your own thought is born. Now that’s something intriguing!

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

My understanding of the grade change was from an interview with Neace I heard on the radio. He did change the grade on the assignment and then entered that grade into the official grade book. Changing a grade once entered is cause for losing one’s teaching license. The rule does not apply to a principal who can make the change once entered.

Basically it was the principal who put the teacher in a no win situation. Either he changed the official grade and lost his license or he refused and lost his job. Given the options the teacher chose wisely. The principal could have avoided the entire hoopla had he/she simply made the change. Since he/she did not, it leads one to seriously consider that there are some other school politics in play given the popularity of the teacher. What is particularly disturbing to me is that the teacher’s popularity was not based on his being an easy grade, but that he had very high expectations for his students, was clear about that, students accepted and respected those expectations, and the actions of the principal and school board inadvertently send a message that high expecations and the teachers who have them are not valued in our school system.

By Bob

May 19, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

If reason alone were all we had to establish the existence and essence of God, we might feel curiously dissatisfied. If God is a Supreme Spirit, omnipotent and of total benevolence, the origin and end of us all, why does He not speak and re-assure us? The Christian claim is that, in fact, God has spoken to mankind first in the prophets of the Old Testament and last of all through His Son made man. The historical existence of Christ is what we are now concerned with, and also with His claim to be the Son of God.The historical existence of Christ and of His followers, the Christians, is beyond dispute. About the year 116 A.D. a Roman historian named Tacitus wrote as follows in his ANNALS apropos of the great fire of Rome in 64 A.D.: “A persistent rumor associated Nero with the starting of this fire. To combat this he decided to provide culprits and inflicted the most atrocious tortures upon that sect known as Christians, detested by the people for their practices. Their name is derived from one Christ, Who was condemned to be crucified by the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. This pernicious sect, formerly proscribed, has established itself not only throughout Judea where it originated, but in the very City itself.” This witness is a pagan and hostile. He is writing less than a hundred years since the governorship of Pontius Pilate. Another historian of about the same time, called Suetonius, wrote the LIVES OF THE CAESARS. He refers to a persecution of Jews in Rome in the year 50 A.D. which led to their banishment under the Emperor Claudius, who, he writes, “expelled the Jews from Rome because under the influence of Christ they had become a permanent source of disorder.” (This persecution is referred to in a Christian document called THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES. This work was written round about the year 60 A.D. and it recounts how in Corinth the Apostle Paul encountered a Jewish family who had been expelled from Rome.)Yet another pagan document of considerable importance mentions Christ. In 111 or 112 A.D. a letter was sent from the Imperial Legate of Bythynia and Pontus (Asian provinces on the Black Sea) to the Emperor Trajan. The writer was called Pliny the Younger and he asked the Emperor for a directive in the treatment of the Christians. The Christians, he said, met together, sang hymns to Christ and pledged themselves to avoid lying, stealing and adultery. Two had been closely questioned by him and they seemed harmless enough to the state. Nevertheless pagan priests were complaining that their temples were deserted and traders resented that there was no sale for sacrificial animals. In the year 125 A.D. the Emperor Hadrian wrote to the proconsul in Asia directing that accusers of Christians must appear in person to substantiate charges. As the Christians grew in numbers and importance there appeared an anti-Christian writer in the second century, called Celsus. His attacks were violent and he was answered by a Christian thinker, the great Origen. At no point in the works of Celsus do we come across the flat statement: Christ never existed. Celsus wrote as if all the historical facts claimed about Christ were true. After the persecution of Nero in 64 A.D. the Christians went underground, quite literally, taking up their services in the burial places of Rome known as catacombs. Inscriptions of Christ, symbols of Him have been dated back to this time on the walls of the catacombs. In brief—literary and archaeological sources make it impossible to deny the historical existence of that man Whom Christians claim to be God. The four Christian documents about the life and teaching of Christ are the Gospels. It is now commonly accepted by the vast majority of scholars that they are historically valid and accurate. Various editions are continually being discovered, indicating that the text now used was in use substantially in very early Christian times. The most celebrated relic is a fragment of Chapter 18 of the Gospel of St. John, called the Rylands Papyrus because it is kept in the John Rylands Library, Manchester, England. All authorities agree in dating this fragment to 130 A.D., a mere 30 years from the date at which the original Gospel was composed. The four Gospels are biographies of Christ. No other biographies in the world have had to face such intense and sustained critical examination; and no other biographies have been so jealously guarded in their integrity by those who have copied them and later printed them in their 1900 years of history. Yetno one has proved that they are fake. The light of modern scholarship has established that these documents were written by four men vastly differing in temperament and aim. Three of them, Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote for the first generation of Christians when the words and deeds of Christ were enshrined in the memory of the followers and disciples of Christ. The accounts all have accidental differences indicating that their composition was individual and not collective, but substantially the resemblances between them are so striking that one feels that here is history at first hand. Though primarily the Gospels were not written as historical documents, the findings of modern archaeology confirm the rare instances when exact chronology is given. Thus in the 3rd Chapter of St. Luke the preaching of John the Baptist is pinpointed “In the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being Governor of Judea and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip being tetrarch of Iturea and of the region of Trachonitis and Lysanus, the tetrarch of Abilene.” Every name mentioned here is known from other sources and inscriptions, as belong to the period and time Luke is pinpointing.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks Jack. DB we do know the story as it was reported in this newspaper. The story clearly stated the student had already been given a perfect score on an assignment. No doubt Neace has his supporters but as I said that district policy also exists here in South Carolina. I don’t know what’s the best punishment for sleeping in class. In fact I don’t know if any punishment is necessary because you’re going to be tested on what you know anyway and if you don’t know that’s your problem. The teacher could have tried another way. Obviously I am not against teachers but they are human and as humans we screw up even when we mean well.

By Archie

May 19, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

Lashelle if you had seen your son work hard on the assignment you would not take that attitude. Think about getting a job review and signing this great review then the supervisor wants to change the review after he has signed it and you have signed it because you came in 15 minutes late. Discipline does not mean lose your common sense. I am not against punishment but use common sense not just being tough or off-beat. Evidently at least two school districts agree with me.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

So Boscoe, you’re using the name “Bob” now?

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

DB…very interesting mystery. Have you read the March issue of National Geographic? It’s basically about the mind and consciousness. Fascinating stuff. And hard question about the consciousness being release since our memories are stored as chemical combos in our brain. That would lead one to think that they die with our bodies. Ah well…I’ll chalk it to being part of that ashes to ashes thing.

BTW…fungus, bacteria, and bugs will NOT be getting ahold of my body. Cremation all the way! The family and friends already know that I want to be cremated and then take the ashes to the beach, mix in a cosmopolitan or gin martini, a healthy squirt of sunscreen, a mashed up tape of 80’s music, the shreds of a really good book, and toss me into the waves to enjoy the beach for all eternity. So far about 8 people think it’s a great idea so look for us in the hereafter. We’ll be the loud group chatting about politics, trading books, laughing a lot, and generally having a great afterlife. Please stop by for a visit or stay a while.

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Archie, that’s not what reported here in Georgia. And like someone else said, a lab requires hands on participation so there’s no way that he would have ever recieved a perfect grade to be taken away. And I hear Nease on several interviews and never once did he say the perfect grade was given and then changed. However, he did maintain that he was not ALLOWED to change the grade because it would have cost him his license. As for the pricipal, I think he/she has no balls. They basically made him the scapegoat. They probably didn’t like him for whatever reason and thought that this was the perfect opportunity to get rid of him. I tell ya, some of these people make me sick to my stomach.

By Tim

May 19, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

I am with LASHELLE… my mom saw me work hard on projects before… but I decided to not go to school and the grade got lowered because I was not in class (it had to be an excused absence and my mom wouldn’t write me a not just because I was lazy) so I got points deducted from my participation grade… guess what… I graduated with high honors from college… highly doubt I would have if my mommmy constantly bailed me out of trouble when I was growing up… I think the teacher was nice giving him half credit… and you Archie I guess you did not read Netbanker’s comments… yes the teacher initially gave him a perfect grade but changed it WHEN HE PUT IT IN THE GRADE BOOK… once it goes in the book he cannot change it!!!! so either way he was screwed

I personally think that rule is BULL S**T! and you people wonder why Ga in 49th… PAAAAAALEASE!

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

Archie, hard work or not, participation counts. There’s an old saying “Don’t do a half assed job” I would still maintain that attitude because in my mind falling asleep in class is doing a half assed job. I wonder what this kid’s going to do in college when 20% of his grade depends on his participation? Complain to his mommy? She won’t be able to complain her way out of that one. As you my job, if I come to work late, if I don’t hold up my end of the “great review” by all means, ammend it. However, I know for a fact that wouldn’t be the case for me as I don’t “sleep” on the job.

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Archie…in defense of the teacher his ‘rule’ is stated in a syllabus that is signed by all students at the start of the year. The student was aware of the consequence and didn’t object or take issue until he had to pay the piper. So far, the only person I can identify as willing to take the punishment for their actions is the teacher.

Why didn’t the principal simply change the grade and write up a disciplinary action on the teacher so he could continue teaching his students? That would appear to have been the common sense approach.

And how to address all the other students’ grades who accepted the consequences laid out in their signed statements who didn’t have a parent come whining to the school? Should their grades be changed retroactively? How many years back should the retroactive changes be made? Even if I had worked hard on the assignment, my parents would have stuck by the teacher since I had signed a statement agreeing to the punishment prior to sleeping in class even if I was smart enough to ace the assignment despite sleeping in class. It’s about being a parent and teaching your child that they should accept the consequences for their actions especially when the punishment is stated up front rather than being invented on the spot.

Ok..that said, I’m telecommuting today and it’s time for a long lunch hanging out by the pool in the back yard. Anyone care to join me?

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 19, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Nice catch, Lozen.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, I’m trying to remember what book said perhaps the reason for humans is to move bacteria from place to place! Then I think about the movie The Matrix. Then Plato or Socrates (one of those guys) comparing our understanding of ourselves to people living in a cave thinking the shadows thrown on the wall were their reality. So many interesting ideas about life and what it is and what it means. I really feel sorry for people who think they know the answers to all those questions. And I believe fundamentalist beliefs would stop all pursuit of knowledge since they think they know everything already!

By lozen

May 19, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, Thank you for the invitation; I’ll be right over! Just kidding, but i would if i could.

By mel

May 19, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Speaking of the church, this is such crap: http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/19/pregnant.student.ap/index.html

Pregnant student defies graduation ban MONTGOMERY, Alabama (AP) — A pregnant student who was banned from graduation at her Roman Catholic high school announced her own name and walked across the stage anyway at the close of the program.

Alysha Cosby’s decision prompted cheers and applause Tuesday from many of her fellow seniors at St. Jude Educational Institute.

But her mother and aunt were escorted out of the church by police after Cosby headed back to her seat.

“I can’t believe something like this is happening in 2005,” said her mother, Sheila Cosby. “My daughter has been through a lot and I am proud of her. She deserved to walk, and she did.”

The school’s guidance counselor delivered Cosby’s degree to her house earlier Tuesday, but she still wanted to participate.

“I worked hard throughout high school and I wanted to walk with my class,” she said.

Cosby was told in March that she could no longer attend school because of safety concerns, and her name was not listed in the graduation program.

The father of Cosby’s child, also a senior at the school, was allowed to participate in graduation.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

So the father was allowed to walk huh? If that isn’t sexism, I don’t know what is.

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

I’m off to lunch too, but I won’t be enjoying it quite as much as you Netbanker, lol.

By Cease

May 19, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Women cheat just as much as men do. The problem is men are stupid and get caught. Women know how to play the game…

By DB

May 19, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Lozen: I don’t know who it is, but whoever wrote a book stating that the purpose of is to humans serve to move bacteria around is crazy. However, we need bacteria just as much as they need us. If we don’t have E. coli, not E. coli 0157-H7 in our gut, we will not have enough vitamin K to make our blood clot, which would make a big problem in our next injury or nosebleed. The reason any organisms exist is simply because they can, i.e., they have many adaptations that make it probable that they live long enough to reproduce. But the question addressing “Why?” is much beyond science, and that’s where spirituality comes in. Netbanker, when you get cremated, you will definitely release energy. All the energy stored in the chemical bonds in your body will be released as heat when your body burns. But unless you’re perfectly dry, some of it will go into the heat of vaporization for changing the liquid water into gas. Also, I think the wonder of consciousness is self-awareness. Our brain may forgot all the info upon death, but will we ever have the capability to be aware of ourselves in a different existence? Of course, we’ll have drunk from the Greek version of the river of forgetfulness, but maybe conciousness does survive to pop above the water here and there down the river of time.

By DB

May 19, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: I didn’t read the March issue of NG, but I will now. Thanks for the pointer.

By DB

May 19, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

Netbanker: Thanks for the pool invite, but I can’t come. I think I write like an idiot, and trying to carry on an intelligent conversation in person makes me look like a complete moron. Then the Margaritas kick in, and then it’s more like a louder moron. Besides, I get thinking about too much too fast while in a conversation, and little progress in monumental gain of knowledge ever occurs for me. I would guess that’s the reason why every free moment I have I am reading and posting blog comments.

By DB

May 19, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

LaShelle: Can’t agree more about the assignment issue. What kind of parent would not back up the teacher in that case? Well, one that is going to follow his/her kid around all their life and get stressed out when they’re supporting them at the age of 40 or bailing them out of jail because they know mommy and daddy will always be there to bail them out. I just can’t believe one little assignment made it that far. It’s absolutely ridiculous. My parents would have said, “Well, I guess you won’t sleep in class again!”. And if it were my kid, I would call the teacher and tell him to give him a zero instead of half-credit.

By Bruce

May 19, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Ben,

That alone would not constitute a pay raise, but if you factor in the unruly kids, abusive parents, uncompensated overtime, poor leadship and foced to keep a smile on yoru face NO MATTER WHAT would. Besides where would all these highly paid movies stars and sports icons be without these teachers. Where would we get the great firepersons, policepersons, and soliders from? Not to mention novelist, scientist, doctors, lawyers and business leaders. Can’t you see it all begins with TEACHERS. most parents support teachers, but they are just support. It is the teachers that teach and they instill in all those mentioned above the things they need to be successful. They are not just babysitters and they deserve more respect, and yes pay, than they are given.

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Exactly DB…hope daddy has a family business that Bubba can work in, cuz at this rate, that’s all he’ll be worth.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Bob, hee hee, This is a good question: If God is a Supreme Spirit, omnipotent and of total benevolence, the origin and end of us all, why does He not speak and re-assure us?

Why does it not speak to us now? Why does it make it’s holy word so hard to understand and so open to different interpretation if that message is supposed to be the most important message to humanity? It is so open to interpretation there are hundreds of different christian sects and they all think they have the correct interpretation.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Bob, your post has given me much to think about; thank you. This is my next question: “Nero … accused the chistians of setting the fire to provide culprits and inflicted the most atrocious tortures upon that sect known as Christians, detested by the people for their practices.” Why do you think they were so detested if they were good people?

By DB

May 19, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Bob! Who said Christ didn’t exist? God? Is that what you were writing against? It’s rather obvious that he did exist! Why bother with all the attempt to, to, to,… I don’t know what you’re attempting. Please let me know. I’m reasonably intelligent, but I’m totally confused about your last posting. What are you trying to say. Please let me(us) know in a few sentences. I lost your point in all the history of the world. They can’t be proven to be fake? What does that mean?

By Randy

May 19, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

I can answer this one from Lozen. When someone tells you that they are a Christian and you are not a Christian, they are reminding you that one day you are going to die. That when you die, if there is a creator(which all evidence points in that direction) you are not prepared, for what comes next. Really before you are a Christian, you may not realize it but your heart(spirit)is not happy. Until you become a actual Christian you could not and will not accept or know this fact. But it is a fact never the less. People are selfish and self-centered by nature and they don’t want to do what they should do. Kind of like a little kid, that is not disciplined. I asked my brother years ago when I wasn’t going to Church, why people don’t go to church? He said, because they don’t want to give up their sin or selfish ways. I looked in the paper today and there were 5 or 6 people who died this last few days younger than myself(i’m 49). I still feel young, but this life is over fast. Like the Boy Scout motto “Be prepared”.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

To further answer Lozen, people love Jesus or they hate him. If it weren’t true, there would not be 2 billion believers and no one would react to him either way. Say Jesus in a saintly way in a crowd sometime and watch the responses. Goes right to the soul or spirit or everybody there. Check it out.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Bruce, I never said they didn’t deserve more pay. But everybody deals with something or another that shouldn’t technically be part of their job.

Morally, your arguement about actors, teacher, firefighters or whoever makes perfect sense. But realistically teachers, firefighters, police, are public servants that chose their career paths. Schools, Fire houses, and cop shops don’t generate revenue:, therefore they are forced to take what meager offering the government sets aside from them. To raise teachers pay means raising taxes.

Athletes however, are part of a big BUSINESS that’s driven by money and, most importantly, brings in money. They are paid based on the revenue their work (if you want to call it that) provides.

You are preaching to the choir. I KNOW that teachers, firemen, military, cops all deserve and should be paid more. I simply just understand why they are NOT paid more and it makes sense to me. I don’t agree with it, but it is what it is.

By Lyrazel

May 19, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

Facinating how intelligent people can take a boring blog and make it into a very interesting place. Such diversity is so enjoyable to me! Its difference in opinion that really helps others reflect on the every day and open their eyes—or shut them for peace and tranquility. Thank you all.

Ok, the problem with unions is the fact they are not competitive. You have to pay into pensions that, like SSI, are supporting current retirees. Even while paying into these funds you are—especially now—not guaranteed you will see more than bare minimum of benefits, if that. As our jobs go overseas, such organizations carry a heavy load of health-care and pensions—fewer workers now support the old. Watch and see pension dumping. The big 8 will basically drop all obligations on the government. After, the gvt. wont have enough to pay the millions in civil service pensions and benefits—and watch how many boomers go to SSI with nothing saved/pensions busted and zero profit of stocks. I am also very down on what has happened but it seems the 90-2000 Americans were so busy playing with themselves Big Business took their NAFTA cookies and ran with our jobs—Business told Legislatures how Americans would buy stocks to make our money—not needing jobs. Bush said to grow the economy we need to buy goods now—should have clued in to major problems—and nobody said Buy American goods! Tax breaks to businesses operating overseas? Talk about kissing a crook! How can we bend over further: JP Stevens, IBM, Dell, Delta, Pfzier…? The fact as the deficit increases we allow Budgets to be passed that omit major spending of the military! Gee whiz, Mr Prez…that was creative economics if ever I saw it—and there was nothing from the Democrats about the hypocrisy of it?

Maybe someday we will once again elect people who are not pretty, who do not make good photo ops, who are intellegent enough to understand economics and strong enough to stand for Americans…but I dream…Ross, you were SO right.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Bob, I just don’t feel any attraction to the judeo/christian god who condemns most of humanity to eternal damnation. I much prefer the idea of the old goddess religion/s; when we die we return to the womb of the mother to await rebirth. I have no real proof for that theory either, but noone can proof it isn’t true! There are many writings, statues, and works of art of Inanna, Athena, Isis, Ixchel, Persephone, Demeter and other goddesses. There is an argument that the whole story about Adam and Eve with its fruit, trees, and wily serpent was a Hebrew polemic against the pagan goddess worshipping peoples living in the area with them and their “one male god” idea. With the slightest little time away from Moses the Hebrews returned to worshipping other gods and making golden calves. The old testament is full of stories of people turning away from Jehovah and returning to goddess worship every chance they got. One interesting idea is that the hebrews adopted their idea of one god from Akhenaton in Egypt. I mean the story goes that Moses was raised as an upper class Egyptian!

By Archie

May 19, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

I state again that my spouse is a teacher and she agrees with the district policy. Neace was fired for insubordination. His lawyers are now arguing for suspension. A parent has the obligation to punish and protect his/her child. As many have said teachers deserve better but there are some that need to change their ways. If you ask many teachers will tell you just that. In other words people know who is good at their job and who is not or who has weird ways. Obviously the man was fired and it took more than one person to accomplish that task.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

Lozen you have never had a life changing experience with Jesus. Don’t look at God as the God of Jews/Christians, look at him at the creator of everything, which he did in the beginning. Maybe other peoples call him by a different name(at first his name was ekneesuwah), but everybody needs to bond with “the Creator”, accept that spirit and don’t reject it. He doesn’t condemn anyone to eternal damnation, they do that themselves, by rejecting his spirit.

By DB

May 19, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

So, Randy, if you’re not a Christian, you are selfish and sinful? And if you go to Church, you are not selfish and sinful? If you’re not a Christian, you’re not prepared to die? If you are a Christian, you are prepared to die? Why not die now then if you’re a Christian? What is the purpose of life if the purpose of life is preparing for the after-life? What about before life? I know a person who calls himself a devout Christian and adheres to the “I pity you because you are not Christian.” belief. He constantly tries to save me. He goes to Church. Then again, he drinks many nights, he has premarital sex, he smokes a lot of pot, etc. But he always talks God and Christianity. I assume, and would assume you assume, that he is not a Christian. I’m not preparing for the afterlife, but I believe regretting your sins and learning from them, helping people when they need it, and preserving life and happiness as much as possible or helping some create it is required in life. I’m always concerned with “Doing the right thing.” and usually do. I try as much as possible to be selfLESS. I would also tend to think worrying about yourself being prepared for the afterlife is quite selfish in itself. According to this, am I a Christian? I don’t go to Church. I believe in the end I am not worthy if there were to be a judgement, and if the head hancho thinks I should burn in a lake of fire, then I must deserve it, and I will have to take it as punishment for being so selfish and sinful. I totally disagree that you have to be Christian to be a good person, and I find it quite judgemental calling anyone who isn’t Christian or doesn’t go to Church sinful or selfish. But, then again, what do I know?

By Jack

May 19, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

If God can do anything, can he create a rock so big that he himself cannot lift it?

Randy, waiting on an answer to my earlier question directed toward you.

By Scott

May 19, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel - sorry I’m late but I went back to read over what I’ve missed. Either you missed the fact I was making two seperate points, or you chose to ignore it. Obviously if I am refering to out-sourcing of jobs in other COUNTRIES, then I am not at the same time refering to illegal immigrants to this country.

I am well aware of our problems with both issues. what I have wanted to hear from you or anyone else (regardless of whether I agree) is suggestions for solutions.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

DB, Let me try to answer some of these questions. No there are some people who go to church who have fallen back into being selfish and sinful. They may not be an actual Christian(and not know it), Billy Graham has had pastors accept Jesus at his crusades and they thought they were Christians for years. Must bond with the creator/spirit or you are not prepared to die(at least your soul/spirit isn’t). Why not die now? The creator decides when my time to die is, he may have plans for me to help others find their way to him. Besides ask any psychologist, commiting suicide is one of the most selfish acts anyone can do. Are you a Christian now? Probably not, every Christian I know can take you back to the instant that they became a Christian. For me is was 39 years ago(age 10) in vacation bible school, the holy spirit grabbed my spirit and I was up front accepting Jesus before I knew it(thank you Jesus). The guy who is a Christian who does pot etc, he has back slided, really Christians can’t win with non-Christians, we are either Hippocits or bible thumpers. It’s a way non Christians push the truth away.

By Ben

May 19, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Whose truth Randy?

By Randy

May 19, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

DB, Here are the rest, I hope. You can be a good person and not be Christian, didn’t mean to suggest that. Going to heaven has nothing to do with being worthy, has to do with the same standard for everyone, God has to draw the line somewhere, he draws it with ones who insult and deny him, no bond there. On preparing for the afterlife, I would prepare for it, it can happend any time, a friend of mine who was 16 at the time, talked to me one day, died that night of a car wreck. We don’t think we are going to die soon, as we have woke up every day of our lives so far and nothing has happened. It’s like the book where the guy is following Morey who is about to die, Morey(spelling) says we know we are going to die, but we don’t believe it. It’s true, prepare for the most certain thing in your life, death and where your spirit is going to go.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Ben, The truth of the spirit of the creator of the universe. I call him Jesus.

By Jack

May 19, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

Oh Lozen darling, let it go….:)

By Netbanker

May 19, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

going to church isn’t going to save anyone. If anything the concept of a 10% tithe allows people to feel like they’ve given to a good cause (and it is…I’m not arguing that), but lets them off the hook when it comes to walking the talk. I’d have a great deal of respect if a church didn’t ask for an income ‘tax’ but asked their members to become involved in one of their community programs by donating 5% of the time they spend at work each week. It’s kind of hypocritical to tell a person who is actually volunteering their time to help someone else someone that aren’t saved because they don’t go to church if the person doing the condemning is only showing up for service and dropping an envelope in the plate every week. I think actions speak louder than words or checks. Doing good makes one good and worthy, not talking about how good one is while doing nothing.

By DB

May 19, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Randy: And non-Christians can’t win with Christians, but I’m not trying to win anything. I’m just curious. I in no way condemn Christians or think less of them, I just don’t understand. And I guess I can’t unless I allow God in. I thought I already did that(that overwhelming feeling of guilt and humility where you just know everything’s going to be alright, but you can’t explain why.), but my God is entirely different than what you speak of. I understand your explanation as to why not die when you are saved, but that’s not what I meant? I guess I meant why create life in the first place? What about most other organisms that can’t even make decisions. Do they not matter to the Creator? What did people do before Christianity? Were they all going to H-E-Double Hockey Sticks without warning?

By Randy

May 19, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

I agree with Netbanker, going to church isn’t going to save anyone, only the holy spirit can do that. But I do find the holy spirit in church more than in other places. My brother’s church doesn’t do a offering, they put a box in the back and you can contribute if you want. Great idea, I don’t want anyone not accepting Jesus because of money, most churches can’t do this though, as the electric company and water company etc, still send them bills. Most churches are not focused on money, if you are in one that is, I would suggest leaving that church and find one that isn’t focused on money. People are what matters. Helping each other out and caring for each other and letting the holy spirit do it’s job.

By DB

May 19, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

I’d just like to thank everyone for all this. The last few days have been quite engaging to say the least! I feel so much better about the world knowing there are open-minded, rational-thinking people like you in the world, Christian, non-Christian, black, white, yellow, green, economists, bankers, teachers, teachers’ husbands, etc. We all have our ingrainded beliefs, but we’ve all changed a little, some of us a lot. If you haven’t noticed, we’ve gone beyond poking at our differences and learning from them. They should cut out this blog and make a Harvard study out of it. If only the world could work more like more like this. And it’s not like the bad apples just left us, either. We jabbed each other and kept in for the long-haul. Let’s keep it going. Whew!!!!!!!!!!

By lozen

May 19, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

Randy, you base your life and all your beliefs on something that happened to you when you were 10 years old! It’s fine if you want to do that, but don’t try to tell others they should believe as you do. The same thing happened to me at about the same age and when I was a child, I thought like a child. But as I grew up and learned about other cultures and religious ideas and read the bible and studied the history of religion, I realized what happened to me then was the result of being a child surrounded by group mass hysteria. I believe I am bonded with the creative spirit, but that is not Jehovah. If you read the bible with an open mind you see that Jehovah was a cruel and unjust god and a creation of superstitious minds. If you trust the spirit within you (Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within you), you come to understand that spirit is a deep mystery that cannot be contained in any book or called by any name. What do you think Jesus meant when he said the kingdom is here, spread out before men now, but they see it not? I think he had been meditating and fell into that state of grace and ecstasy when you know everything is exactly as it should be. I experienced that myself and words cannot describe it. That’s why I think that’s what he meant. For someone who hasn’t had that experience, the words he said would have to be interpreted a different way.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

DB, Yea you won’t understand until you let God in. I never felt guilt, just a peace where I don’t care what happends to me, Jesus is going to love me. Like the country song, Jesus and Momma always loved me, even when I was wrong. Why create life in the first place, “company”? “Something to do” I’m glad he did. I don’t think god cares about other organisms, as the bible says we are in his likeness. Before Christianity, people sacraficed animals to pay for their sins. After Jesus came he gave us a easy way to get to heaven, by just accepting him as our lord and savior. A whole lot easier way than killing animals and being judged. A guy said it best once, when you die and you are standing in front of the creator and he asks you why should you be allowed into heaven? Jesus steps in and says “This one is with me” you don’t even have to answer the question. Praise the lord.

By Lola

May 19, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

I HATE it when my job makes me work and I miss my blog buddies! Don’t worry, though. I’ll be back tomorrow. Wait…Did anyone even realize I was gone? :)

kimberly - in the interest of helping you unwind a little bit, I have decided to remove the last remaining Bush/Cheney sticker from my car. I only left it there because there were still so many anti-Bush and Kerry stickers on the cars I see in traffic. But you’re right. It’s time.

Boy am I sorry I missed the discussion about American cars. I drive a Ford Contour and I don’t have enough energy to type all the complaints I have about it. Suffice it to say, I’ve driven this POS for 7 years now and I’m about to get a minivan instead. Any suggestions or recommendations on what kinds are the best safety rated and customer satisfaction rated?

DB - you’re awesome for the backup blog! Good thinking. It’s easy to become hooked, trust me. Did you hear that this one was going away or were you just making sure to cover your bases?

The irony doesn’t escape me that norman leaves the blog and the topic turns to religion. Someone really pi*sed him off yesterday with the fake post under his name. I knew that couldn’t be him anyway. Didn’t sound like something he’d say. In a very strange and weird way, he did add some spice to the blog, when he wasn’t so busy trying to incite hate in everyone.

Well, that’s my piece for today. I’ll see you all tomorrow and have a wonderful evening!

By DB

May 19, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Before they close this, don’t forget we can continue on dba.modblog.com . It must be getting close to the last blog day.

By CAgal4ever

May 19, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Netscaper, I will be with you on the beach. I decided years ago to be cremated & sprinkled on a beach. People ‘sit’ on the beach alllllll day long. ; ) And thanks for the idea about mixing in a drink & suntan lotion. Smiles

By LaShelle

May 19, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

I firmly believe in my religion because of things that happen in life like this…My cousin was shot NINE times and by all medical reasoning should be dead, but she survived!! Tell me that isn’t God. Someone explain that one to me without incorporating spirituality.

By Randy

May 19, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Lozen, Mine took at 10 years old, there was a time for about 15 years that I didn’t go to church. I asked the question is god real and he answered it. If you believe you are bonded with the creative spirit, why would God need to be creative? I am bonded with the spirit of the creator of this world, I call him Jesus. I don’t see Jehovah being cruel or unjust. Maybe you have had what Dr. Phil calls a life-changing moment the opposite way. Where someone said you were crazy atvery critical point in your life. Jesus is great, he wants the best for everyone. Don’t look at Christians and look for perfection as we are just human and fall short of the glory of god. God bless you and I hope to see you in heaven.

By CAgal4ever

May 19, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, I will be on the beach with you. I am female. I decided years ago to be cremated & sprinkled on a beach. People ‘sit’ on a beach all day long. : ) Oh, and thanks for the idea of mixing in a drink and suntan lotion. Wouldn’t want to wrinkle. Smiles!

By lozen

May 19, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Oh Jack, you are partially right ;-) I think that myself at times. Then I think about where I’d be if others in my life had let it go and not shown me there is a much bigger world of the spirit. And I’ve probably told you about my father dying crying out, “Why won’t god show me his face?” My father asked a lot of questions about religion but he never let go of that limited fundamentalist idea of god so he was looking for some image, maybe that old man with a beard. He couldn’t see the Spirit in the forgiving eyes of his children standing around his bed!

By Jack

May 19, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

DB - It doesn’t matter what the subject is. As you can tell the subject only lasts 1 day at most with us, then its off to the races. (no pun intended)

Norm must have given up for the day.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it amazing how we all miss Norman? LeShelle, the luck of the draw for your cousin. She’s a very fortunate woman. Are you saying all the other people who were shot nine times and died were forsaken by god? But then again, it could have been some kind of mysterious intervention; I don’t know. You are welcome DB and you have had that experience of feeling “everything is okay” too. Golden!

The CEO of Delta tells stockholders today everything will be scrutinized to solve Delta’s problems. Everything except his six, seven, eight digit salary, of course!

By Jack

May 19, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Yes. They must secure their retirement and make it bankruptcy proof before they go under. Lozen, your Dad is in a better place.

By lozen

May 19, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Jack, sweetie, I think this week’s subject only lasted about 15 minutes!

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion … [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply….And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Christianity is a single parent family. Christians are all motherless children.

By Scott

May 19, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this

Lola…glad to see you..I missed you and I am sure Jack did too! I don’t really think you missed out on much, however

By kimberly

May 19, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

Lola, thanks! Feel free to replace that tired old sticker with something NEW and annoying! I replace mine every three months or so.

By Tim

May 19, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

Randy… please don’t start quoting Dr. Phil… he is as dumb as they come

By lozen

May 19, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

And one last note for you Randy:

God said to Adam, [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Randy, they didn’t die! The serpent told Eve she could eat and not die. Who was telling the truth?

By Jack

May 19, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this

Yes I did miss Lola. LoLolooooooLa. Who did that song?

By DB

May 19, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this

Lola: The backup blog was just in case.

Minivans:

Avoid(So bad I don’t even remember the names of them):

However, if you’re really thinking about mileage and safety, I would suggest a VW Passat Wagon TDI(Diesel), Volvo Wagon, or any AUDI wagon(pricey).

By Ben

May 20, 2005 07:53 AM | Link to this

Randy, I thought God created the universe and Jesus was his son. Okay, I’m confused now! Did Mary get child support? Or was she a baby’s mama?

By JT

May 20, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this

Of all the things we need to be concerned about and Paula warrants such attention? Did you read the detailed accounts of American prisoner abuse in the NY Times today? Hard to find such an article in the AJC.com. But I digress. Issues such Paula and Corey are best handled in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. Corey started the volley by making public his accusations, ironicly, just a few months before his book is due out. Wouldn’t it be nice if our Journalists actually worried and utilized their time & talent (?) on matters of importance and not always matters of shallow interest. I am disappointed the the both of you. Who the hell cares about the accusations. Did you know we just lost three more soldiers in a foreign land……….

By Randy

May 20, 2005 08:13 AM | Link to this

Lozen, On your quote from 4:57 yesterday. When Eve ate from the apple, that’s when people became mortal, before that people were not intended to die. Really now we don’t die spiritually, just physically. As far as the serpent goes, misery loves company and it is real miserable apart from the Creator.

By Randy

May 20, 2005 08:20 AM | Link to this

Ben, I don’t understand your question.

By Ben

May 20, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

Randy, I was just being silly. There really wasn’t a question. I was responding to your post yesterday when you said, “The truth of the spirit of the creator of the universe. I call him Jesus.”

I really have no desire to engage in the religious debacle that goes on here, so I jump in every now and then when I see something worth acknowledging.

By Randy

May 20, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this

Has anyone heard the expression “She went to heaven a shouting”? Does anyone know what that means? Vince Gill sings about it in a song he sings.

By Boscoe

May 20, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

Lozen, LeShelle, the luck of the draw for your cousin. She’s a very fortunate woman. Are you saying all the other people who were shot nine times and died were forsaken by god? But then again, it could have been some kind of mysterious intervention; I don’t know. Perhaps lozen, deep down, you do have some knowledge that a higher authority actually does exist.

By Jack

May 20, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

She was ashouting with joy I imagine.

By Randy

May 20, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Actually Jack that’s close. But it’s more than that and I have seen it first hand. It’s like her soul and spirit can’t wait to go to heaven. It’s like the soul and spirit are pressing to come out of her body so intensely, that that person can’t do anything but shout for joy, reguardless of the pain they may be in from their physical condition . Just another of the small clues God leaves us.

By lozen

May 20, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Boscoe, dearest, of course I am willing to admit I don’t know. And are you willing to admit that also? Certainly there are mysterious forces or energies that we don’t understand. Life, birth, death, existence, the universe, a flower, love between people, these are all miraculous things. When I really think about all the interrelated connections, the timing, the science, the specific act at the specific time that brought together the one sperm and one egg from my parents that created me, a unique person, with my thoughts and feelings in this one time and place where I’ve had the particular experiences I’ve had, it really is amazing. Humans have been searching for the meaning of life and death forever. Various groups came up with different answers; and one answer for people of 2,000 years ago was christianity. Other answers were Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroastrism, Egyptian religion. All those stories made sense to those people at that time with their limited scientific knowledge. But the world has changed Boscoe. We’ve learned so much in the past 200 years the old stories of how the universe came into being and why we’re here don’t make sense anymore. We need a new mythology for a new time. I don’t believe in the Judeo/Christian story about that mystery and I never will. It has little to offer me as a woman. Woman aren’t treated very well in that story. There are many, many people who have rejected that story because in this day it just doesn’t make sense to many of us.

By lozen

May 20, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Bless your heart Randy.

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Lozen, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying that strengthens my religious beliefs. My next question would be, mysterious intervention by whom or what?

By Lola

May 20, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the minivan info, DB. I appreciate it!

My 1 year old daughter took her first steps last night so I’m walking on a cloud today. :)

So the UK paper the SUN has printed a picture of Saddam in his underwear on their front page. How do you think the people in Iraq will react to that? Rage or laughter?

By RS

May 20, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

Jack; in answer to your question yesterday, it was The Kinks who did the song “Lola”. Aren’t you lucky I am such a fount of rock & roll trivia??

By Stan

May 20, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

Was he sporting a package worth mentioning?

By Tim

May 20, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Lola… congratulations!!!!!!! awww I bet she is a cute lil ankle biter

I really didn’t need to see Saddam in his undies!!!

By Lola

May 20, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Stan - nope. Not at all. Pretty saggy, baggy and raggy. But he IS in his 60’s so I guess that’s not too surprising. He even has a bit of a man-boob thing going on.

Not surprisingly either, is that they are saying there’s fear of a backlash because of this picture. I don’t get that. Do the islamists not care that he butchered millions? Is it worse that he’s shown in his underwear? I mean, come on.

By lozen

May 20, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

Hey LeShelle, I just don’t know by whom or what; nobody else does either. I’m interested in the idea that all of us, and everything, is a collection of atoms that come together to create you, me, this desk. And some of the research I’ve heard of (this may be all new age stuff, I’m not sure) of how our thoughts/prayers can effect things distant from us. I am really not saying there is no “ground of being” or “underlying cause agent” or great spirit. I’m saying nobody knows what it is and what it wants from us. I’m saying I don’t believe the Judeo/Christian idea from 2000 years ago about what it is. The god of the old testament is not a god I can worship or even admire. Jesus was a teacher and some of the things he said are very wise. Some of the things he said don’t make any sense if you really think about it. I can’t call the mystery god, brahma, allah or any of the words that put limits on it. I have trouble with the word “love” also because it is used to cover any and all kinds of feelings that so often to me seem to be “need” and fear of being alone instead of love.

By lozen

May 20, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Hey Lola, how wonderful! But now you’re in for it! Another wondrous thing, watching a child develop, learn to talk, walk. I have a little three year old in my life - a neighbor’s daughter - who gives me so much joy, along with strawberry stains on my new white shirt, and crushed flowers in the garden! She was adopted from a Russian orphanage, what an amazing thing when you think of what could have been her life.

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this

I definately agree with the second half of that. People are way to quick to say they “love” someone and it always backfires when they don’t mean it.

By Lola

May 20, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Tim and lozen! Her 1st birthday is on Sunday, so her timing is perfect for a walking demo at her party. And if I may say so, she is THE cutest little ankle biter! Although, she does look like a short bald drunken sailor when she walks. :)

I could have gone a lifetime without seeing Saddam in his tidy whiteys and been okay with that. So now the big mystery is how that picture was taken and by whom…

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

LOL@Lola. Tim/Lozen, I have a three year old boy I’d like to rent out to you. All we charge is food. If you can feed him he’s great for labor! :o)

By Tim

May 20, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Lola… happy bday to the lil ankle biter!!! :)

I was wondering what the reaction to that picutre if going to be as well

lol @ LaShelle… I am moving next Thursday… so I may take you up on that offer :)

By kimberly

May 20, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Lola, They’re so SWEEEEET when they’re little. Enjoy that precious time. You’ll wake up in about three weeks to find they’re taller than you, demanding money, and completely disinterested in anything you have to say!

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

I’m already there Kimberly. Kids grow up tooo fast nowadays!!

By Jack

May 20, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

RS you’re wonderful.

Lola, she won’t walk long before she starts to run! Have fun. LOL (I’ll bet she’s a cutie!)

By Jack

May 20, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Stan, his package should be removed without any novacaine.

By Jack

May 20, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Whats funny about parenthood. You can’t wait for them to walk, afterward you wish they would slow down.

You can’t wait for them to talk, afterward you wish they would shut up.

You learn real quick how to deal with poop & puke!

LOL

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

Jack, I know exactly what you mean. My son started walking at 10 mos and hasn’t stopped moving since then! Then they learn so quickly especially in today’s society. Next thing you know, they’re graduating high school, then college, then marriage, then the fun part: they have their own children! :O)

By Scott

May 20, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

LOLA - Congrats to you and the “little ankle biter”!!! Thats great! My nephew just turned one and he toddles everywhere now…quite the handful so enjoy!!!!

By lozen

May 20, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Have a wonderful weekend everyone. I know we’ll all be thinking about what Paula should do while we’re enjoying our R&R!

By Lola

May 20, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

My husband always says “Enjoy her now because it’s a short trip from shtty diapers to shtty attitude.” LOL!

Thank you so much, everyone. I can’t even tell you the joy she brings to our lives. She’s a very affectionate and sweet little girl who is already fiercely independent and very much her own person. I try to take stock every single day and appreciate her. It amazes me how much I love being a mother, and this is coming from a woman who SWORE her ENTIRE LIFE she would NEVER have kids! (she wasn’t exactly “planned”). oops! :)

She will be an only child, but I’ve done a lot of reading on that and it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Are any of you only-children by any chance?

By Brian Curtis

May 20, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

As is often the case, Jon Stewart summed up the American Idol “story” best: “Allegations surfaced of an American Idol contestand having an affair with a powerhouse judge. You know, unless the judge was Antonin Scalia, how is this news?”

Seriously, Diane & Shaunti: get some perspective, please.

By Jack

May 20, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

I’ve ordered 5 grandchildren from each of my kids.

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

LOL@Jack…how much are you paying for this order?

By Boscoe

May 20, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

But the world has changed Boscoe. We’ve learned so much in the past 200 years the old stories of how the universe came into being and why we’re here don’t make sense anymore. We need a new mythology for a new time. I don’t believe in the Judeo/Christian story about that mystery and I never will. Lozen, recently in the Middle East a woman, eight months pregnant, was gunned down. Her two year old little girl who sat crying in her car seat had two bullets put into her head simply because she was a Jew. Is this hatred reserved only for Jews? No Christians and Americans are also on the list of people to kill. The parallels to WWII are astounding. How much have we learned from just 60 years ago when Jewish Children were being shot through the head just because they were just that- Jewish. What are you prepared to do to prevent this from happening to your own children?

By Lola

May 20, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

The sad part is that I’ll be 55 when she’s graduating high school! I probably won’t see grandkids till I’m 60 (I’d BETTER not anyway!)

You’re right, Brian Curtis. Jon Stewart pretty much summed it all up perfectly. I love the show, but I STILL don’t care if Paula and Thuggy had an affair. I mean, whose life (other than theirs) does that really alter either way?

By Tim

May 20, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Jack… your poor children… I will be praying for them… they would certainly have their hands full with that many

By Jack

May 20, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

Yes. I told them we would babysit whenever they want then I could spoil them and give them back! (just like our folks did)

By kimberly

May 20, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

Lola, I was the only child of a single father, and I am a single mother of an only child. I am completely dysfunctional and disturbed — damaged beyond any hope of repair. But there is still hope for the child, as I empower her with truth. Hope that helps! {;->

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

Lola, Not to sound mean or anything, but all of the “only children” that I’ve known have had social issues. They don’t know how to share and some times lack some elements of communication because of their “only child” status. Does she go to daycare?

By Tim

May 20, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

Lola… being an only child can be good or bad… the bad is exactly what LaShelle pointed out… but that can be remedied with a lot of social interaction with peers… the positives are that usually being an only child, one is around adults almost constantly… so an only child can easily communicate with adults… but one problem that may arise is since they are constantly around adults sometimes they do not know how to interact with their peers… but again that can be remedied by having them around children their own age on a regular basis… I highly doubt that a child with siblings has a better chance than an only child… or vice versa… simply comes down to the parenting… only children always want brothers and sister and children with siblings always want to be an only child… grass is always greener on the other side :)

By Lola

May 20, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

kimberly - that helped a lot. NOT! LOL! :)

LaShelle and Tim - actually my daughter spends 10 hours a day at daycare (7am-5pm) and is a VERY social child. Her teacher says that when a new child comes to the room, she is the first one to go over and interact with them, “welcoming” them to the infant room. I suppose my reasons for only having one baby are selfish, but I had an absolutely horrible (unplanned) pregnancy (massive water retention and swelling, high blood pressure), and the birth was very traumatic for both me and my daughter (3 hours of pushing, her head caught in the birth canal, and then an emergency c-section), and she ended up in the neonatal ICU for four days afterwards on a ventilator and feeding tube. I didn’t even get to see her until she was 24 hours old, because I wasn’t able to get to the ICU until then. It was incredibly scary.

My husband went through a time where he was really wanting us to have a second child, but I finally talked him out of it. We are both in our late 30’s and the risks of a downe syndrome child are extremely high once you reach that age. I know people have them every day past the age of 40, but as I said, my motives are selfish and I simply don’t want to go through all that again. We have the sweetest and most adorable little girl, and I just don’t want to push our luck.

I’m the youngest of two girls, and my sister and I were never close, and fought relentlessly throughout our childhood, only becoming friends once we were adults. I think there are definitely pros and cons to both sides of the argument, and I take comfort in knowing that our daughter will get 100% of our attention and love, and will always be surrounded by the children of our friends, as well as her friends at daycare and school.

That said, I do understand where you’re coming from, LaShelle and Tim. Absolutely.

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Lola, my son is currently an only child. I do plan on having more children but not any time soon, lol…he was a lot earlier than initially planned. But he’s very mature for his age. When people talk with him they always think he’s older than three. I attribute that to having him around both children his age in daycare and adults at home. So as long as you socialize her well you shouldn’t have a serial killer on your hands.

By LaShelle

May 20, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

I can definately understand where you’re coming from Lola. My pregnancy (child’s father aside) was easy. So I guess it depends on that first pregnancy. Many women that have a traumatic first experience don’t want anymore. But me, because it was so easy, I’d have a whole football team! lol

By RS

May 20, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

No, Lola, you are anything BUT selfish. You understandably, want to be around to see your precious daughter become a mom AND a grandma and WE want you around for many more decades too, sweetie! Aw, Jack, it’s nothing. My mind is filled with all sorts of garbage so I might as well spread it around. Hee! And you’re right about how that-er-“package” should be dealt with