Woman to Woman

By norman

May 2, 2005 07:21 AM | Link to this

Yes, there are alternatives to paying poor, working single parents for child care. The parents could be sterilized and put in debtor’s prison while the children could be put in orphanages. This would be the truly Christian solution.

By SUZAN

May 2, 2005 07:37 AM | Link to this

Norman, this is a very low blow. I can not think of anything that could be more insulting, my church is involed with many single moms who were homeless. They have moved them into homes or apartments, helped them get jobs, helped them further thier education and then shown them how to budget, save, and by thier own homes. What have you done for the single moms out thier with kids? While Chistians may not be perfect we at least attempt to do something to help those around us. If teaching responsiblity, pushing for more educations and teaching a mom how to not only survive but have a better life for her children is bad then offer another solution before you make a nasty back-handed remark like this. Tell me Norman just what do you contribute to help those around you.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

Hell no the govt should not pay. How many more illegitamate children would be created if they/we paid? What B.S.

By Randy

May 2, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

SUZAN, If the subject was about anything, Norman would attack Christians. It’s his purpose in life. Also, Norman doesn’t contribute anything to help others, he has arrested development and that is why we call him the village idiot on this website.

By norman

May 2, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

Suzan: let a life.

By James

May 2, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

I could not agree with Diane more on this issue. Making a traditional family is not always the wisest decision. How many families out there suffer from poverty (even though both parents work-often more than 1 job each)? How many families suffer from abuse (Physical & mental) due to financial stress? How many ‘traditional’ marriages were begun by pregnancy and only ended in tradgedy? First reading of Shaunti’s side was good. But, Diane has hit the nail on the head. Educate people in what it means to have a child, not just ‘how to get a man.’ Emotionally, physically, financially, etc.

And I want Gov’t subsidies for my 3 children! Doggie Day Care for everyone! Of course, I work 2 jobs & so does my partner to keep up our lifestlye. I have 88 employees who make it by working jobs and caring for their children with little to no gov’t $$ for childcare. 90+% of these children were created out of lust & ignorance. Educating the young to prevent the problem is the only solution. ‘Traditional Families’ are ideal, but I see more dysfunctional traditional families than functional ones. But, this is the advantage of being gay! There are no mistakes in pregnancy. We plan for our children. God knows, I’ve been trying to get my partner pregnant for years, but he just won’t take! (It’s a joke Boscoe)

By Lyrazel

May 2, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

Interesting comments. One offers no solution, the other wants to pad social entitlements. Hey! Get off the Public Assistance Gravy Train, Diane! It does not work because PA provides more benefits than one gets working! The problem with the ENTITLEMENT system!

Until the government starts using assistance receivers as an untapped labor pool, none of the social changes will ever happen. Most countries public assistance programs are full of abuse—and if you think that is changing—its not. Its getting worse—because most industrialized nations populations are growing older—thus more demands on taxpayer already-paid assistance. Why must the government demand the hard workers—pay into systems—when tax-paying families can barely afford childcare, insurance and cost of living, raising kids? Its the fact—so many do—that fuels an anger toward recipients of social programs.

Here is a thought: Put America Back To Work! You apply for public assistance learning you are pregnant, your case worker evaluates you, your education, language skills, life skills. While you are in your—terms—you have a manditory requirement to complete highschool classes. You dont go—the money dries up. You are given drug tests—if you dont pass the money dries up. Your prior children in the home are given drug tests—if they do not pass—the money dries up. Anyone dwelling in your home is given a drug test. If they dont pass—your money dries up. If you have completed highschool you are given assignments that can be completed by pregnant women, attending lectures on parenting, attending courses on job training, buget maintenance, childcare center monitors, clerks at assistance offices, translators for social workers, drivers for Meals on Wheels, senior care center assistance, working at food banks, clothing distributers, etc, and we have so many unfunded jobs to do—the list is ugly and long. Lets make PA something most people dont want because its hard work!

My BIG STINKER is fathers of children whose mothers are on welfare. They MUST attend classes, they must be held responsible for their actions—regardless if they live with the woman. Employers will be contacted, he has to attend birth prevention classes and if he does not—the full cost of the Public assistance that child receives is taken from that mans paycheck/bank account—will include reposession of property. He too will be given manditory drug tests if he has any continued contact with said recipient.

O yeah, its very harsh. But why just blame women when men are needed to make babies? Isnt it time we stopped having scapegoats and started finding solutions? Far too many men have an attitude—they dont NEED to act responsible—its a WOMANs job. Ok, he got one person on public assistance—its HIS fault too, right?

Employers at small and large corporations like Wal-Mart will receive federal tax relief to provide daycare—family counseling/medical—matched for every dollar they put into such programs.

Although I want mandatory birth control of all recipients I know some elderly women are raising childrens children and great grandchildren. I know some recipients are following religous tenants that prevent using—and frankly—nobody in ADC can/should regulate dispensing medicine unless they are doctors.

Then the real clincher comes in at retirement. All of the money paid to recipient for welfare—is deducted from SSI prior to getting any benefits. These payments from assistance can be paid back prior to retirement—but must be repaid. End the entitlement factor—and start bringing self-responsibility back.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

When our children were young and in daycare , after we paid for the daycare my wife cleared less than $100. per week. The only help we got was the tax break. Those in favor of this needs to go live in a socialist country.

By Bruce

May 2, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

I agree with you Jack. It is time people start taking responsibility for their own actions. The only problem I have is while we are insisting on the adults pay their own lazy way, the children are suffering for it.

Like I said before use these unemployeed women to work as daycare workers. It will put them to work and give needed time for others to look for or go to work.

By Claire

May 2, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this

Susan, I agree with you here. The Christian right helps in ways that those that just spend their time posting negative statements will never know. Being critical of things they know nothing about seems to be the forte of most of the people who post to this forum, and no matter what the topic, I notice certain people will always say “its the Christian’s fault!” If these pathetically sad and lonely people spent as much time volunteering somewhere as they do trying to debate religion in chat rooms, imagine what could be accomplished! My church also donates time, money and people to help educate and train parents (single and married) who are in need. Nothing is asked in return, our goal is to make better parents and safe and happy children. If someone is led to Christ in the process, what a benefit for them! Diane has the right idea, treating the cause, not just the symptoms. But the causes…what a task. Deadbeat dads, teen pregnancies, promiscuity, lack of birth control and sex education, etc. Societies ills are not solved as easily as throwing money to another government program. Parents have got to take control of their children and parent responsibly and effectively. Schools need to promote sex education with family planning and adoption as part of their programs. And,(oh boy)abstinence is a viable choice!

By Archie

May 2, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

I agree with a lot of what Lyrazel had to say. I have some problem with Dianne’s fixation on being against the traditional family. Dianne is an independent,highly educated,well-paid woman. Most women are not in her category and they cannot make the choices she would make. This situation should be handled with punishment and compassion. Lyrazel laid out the punishment part but some assistance for women should be a part of the solution because everyone is not perfect. Education is very important as Dianne says but there must be some acknowledgement that this new emphasis on women going it alone is not working overall. With so many diseases it may become required that people are tested for STD’S and given a card saying their okay. The point is that paying for childcare is more complex now than years ago because the children may have diseases or other health problems so the government has the right to do some of things suggested by Lyrazel.

By norman

May 2, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

Randy: not only do you not have a sense of humor, you are a prig. You would make a good Islamicist.

By David

May 2, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

Both of the editorials try to make reasonable arguements, but in reality, neither solves the problem. When my wife and I were married in the mid 90’s, we spent well over $700/month on childcare, and it’s gone up since then.
Our combined incomes were $45k per year, and we lived a modest life. If my wife quit to stay home with the kids, we’d lose $400/month, so we were stuck paying big bucks for daycare.
Now we are fortunate to have neighbors who share the responsbility of watching kids. Childcare is just too expensive in Atlanta suburbs, especially in the upper-mobility, SUV-intensive areas like Alpharetta where my children are. I don’t really know if there’s anyone to blame, except the drive toward an all-ownership society and complete lack of community, and NO, a neighborhood association is not a community, it’s an investment group.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Somebody tell me why we pay taxes for kindergarten? Or first grade? Who decided when school started? Why not start it at age 2? Just tack that onto public education….

My childfree friends complain that they have to pay taxes for other people’s kids to go to public school, but they forget that they went to public school, once, too…..

Daycare costs an average of 7K a year. This is doable for the middle class, making around 45K. Not fun, but doable. It’s not doable for the working poor. That’s half or more than half their income.

By Angie

May 2, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

The cost of childcare is outrageous. I don’t know how parents afford to pay for more than one child’s childcare. I pay over $500 a month just for my son. (No, I’m not saying the govt should help pay either.) But it’s soooo expensive. If you make less than $20,000 a year I don’t see how you could afford it and still pay your bills.

By James

May 2, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, I agree with you on most of your argument. Put these folks to work and give them serious consequences for their actions. However, they must be educated to begin with to know there are consequences.

Claire, most of us here in the room would agree that Christian organizations do provide wonderful assistance programs. If they could do it without the judgement & push (often demand) to convert to their way of thinking, then it would be wonderful. However, many would prefer to suffer in the streets, steal & beg than be pushed into a religon or way of thinking they do not agree with. If a church can give without recognition (as Christ would have suggested), there would be no issue. However, people in many (not all) of these organizations are too judgemental (another thing Christ preached against) to give the help without truely asking for nothing in return.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

My wife and I do without many material things in life so that we can afford to pay for daycare for our children, and it would be wonderful to have someone pay that for us. But we don’t believe in forcing our fellow Americans to pay for our children’s care out of their hard-earned paychecks. I know there are some women who are single mothers out of no fault of their own, and I will glady help them TEMPORARILY, but it is the women who choose to keep having child after child by different men with no family structure to provide to their children and no money to pay for them, that really make me angry. If a woman is on public assistance and has another child while she is, I think she should be forced to give that child up for adoption so that the child can be raised by a loving family who can afford to give him or her the kind of care a child needs, rather than a life of poverty. Nothing makes me more furious than seeing a woman on welfare who stays home with her children rather than working, and then hearing her claim that she “chooses” to be a stay-at-home mother. I would LOVE it if my wife and I could afford to have one of us stay at home with our kids, but that just isn’t reality, and I refuse to put the financial burden of that on the shoulders of society.

By sandy

May 2, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Just a note to Lyrazel, it sounds really good in theory, but enforcing and providing all of those checks in the system is very costly. It’s less expensive to just write a check out to welfare recipients than to try to enforce all those programs. This is why the welfare to work reforms surrounding Aid for Families with Dependent Children were largely unsuccessful; the monitoring costs were just too high to be strictly enforced. Temporary Aid for Needy Families has built in a lot more incentives to get families off welfare without all the extra monitoring costs. I don’t have a problem with the state government helping out working families/mothers that are trying to regain financial independence as long as it’s an effort towards the larger goal of getting them to be self-sufficient and not just enabling them to take advantage of government aid.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

Sandy good post but many are professionals at working the system. We pay.

By Lola

May 2, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

I think putting welfare parents to work like Lyrazel spelled out is a wonderful solution. If someone is reliant upon society to provide their financial means and pay for daycare, they should be required to give back to society through work programs of some kind. And I could not agree more about the drug testing stipulation as well. If someone has money for drugs, they certainly should not be entitled to any kind of assistance from the rest of us, and in addition, they should lose custody of any children they have. It is a sad thing to see adults spend their money on drugs and yet, have no food on the table for their babies and no money to provide care for them. There should be many, many strings attached to government assistance. I think that would make it much less appealing and would encourage recipients to make the effort to get off of it. And there should definitely be a time limit on how long they are allowed to receive assistance.

By sandy

May 2, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

It still costs less to pay them than it does to implement all those checks, even if they shouldn’t be receiving the checks in the first place. Besides, not as many people are “working the system” as is sometimes argued. Putting money to things like childcare reduces the actual amount of the checks that are given directly to those receiving aid by creating a system where they can actually get ahead by working. I won’t go into the economics of it, but this is something AFDC failed to do and thus created incentives for people to remain on welfare. Like I said, I’m supportive of any program that will help people get back on their feet. Some people will take advantage of the system, but I don’t think there’s any program that will fully get rid of it, and if it’s less expensive for the government to let them take advantage of the system, then so be it.

By David

May 2, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

It’s really amazing to me to see people complain about money spent on social welfare and public education in this forum.
Of your taxes paid, 0.4% goes to job training, 3.7% goes to education. 30% goes to military and defense, 20% goes to healthcare, and 19% go to interest on debt. We, as a nation spend less a share on education than many other industrialized nations in the world. We spend more on defense than all the other industrialized nations combined. Our military spending is 25 times that of other rogue nations.

Where are your priorities today, knowing that the future of a country depends on the education of its youth?

By RS

May 2, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

DON’T BREED EM’ IF YOU CAN’T FEED EM’!!! I choose to be childfree so why should I subsidize stranger’s kids? By that token, shouldn’t non-pet owners buy my cat’s food? Shouldn’t non-musicians keep me supplied in guitar strings??? DUH

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

We wouldn’t be here without our defense David. How bout YOU pay for the welfare mother with 5 children with 5 different men.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

RS, did you go to public school?

David has a point. People get all up in arms about their taxes going to welfare but less than 2% of our country’s expediture in relation to GDP goes to welfare. So, I mean, it’s not like we’re paying a lot now….

It’s going to military and business…THAT’S where all your taxes go.

By Sven

May 2, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

I’m struck by the Americans’ greed and focus on the dollar, and indeed, it seems the most commonly spoken word in the American English language. So rapt in yourselves and bent on accumulating as much as you can, so you can bask in material wealth. You don’t see how morally bankrupt a nation you have become.

You will actually invade a nation at the pretense of defense, oh wait, liberation, and kill over 100,000 civilians, so you may keep driving your SUVs and salvage a failed economy a bit longer. How sad, indeed.

By David

May 2, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Jack, we spend much more than we need on defense, but if you want to go on spouting the party line, go ahead. You might actually do a little reading and less time watching FOX news.

I’ve actually served in wartime, and I’ve paid for my children on my own. I have no desire to leave my fellow countryman by the wayside.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

OK, Sven, enough outta you. Why are you here? Do you live here? You don’t like, leave.

and the US hardly has a “failed” economy. No matter how bad it gets it will never lead to the total devestation and dismantling of the US. Never.

But you’re right about Iraq and I think you’ll find about half the country thinks that.

By Ben

May 2, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

I just hope Sven isn’t in America right now!

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

We are so morally bankrupt most other nations are envious of us and millions wished they could live here. Maybe thou should go back to whence they came!

By David

May 2, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

Jack, in addition, there are married couples that can’t afford decent childcare - sorry to burst your visions of single mother prostitutes living off your tax dollars.

By Tim

May 2, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

RS… I am with you… pay for your own dang kids… I am not even good enough to have the right to marry… and there are PLENTY of people out there who are even trying to make it illegal for me to adopt children… so screw y’all… pay for your own lil S.O.B.’s lol

By Sandy

May 2, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

Okay, so Shaunti and the conservatives do not want institutionalized childcare, but apparently do want institutionalized marriage and limits family planning choices. Kind of hypocritical, isn’t it?

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

David, go live with Sven.

By Brett

May 2, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

Okay, who let Michael Moore in on this forum???????????

By Sven

May 2, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

I live in Sweden, but I have good friends in Atlanta who work with CARE. I don’t know anyone who is envious of Americans, but that is a good laugh!

Your economy is failing because of national and personal debt. As demand for oil increases because of growing economies in China, India and other countries, the price of oil will only go up. Oil production peaked in the mid 1970’s, and the trend will begin to spiral downward. Globalism will fail miserably with the advent of expensive oil, expensive transport costs, and no reasonable backup system in the USA. You have shunned railways in favor of trucking, and all your cheap living comes from China.

Tell me how you plan to save yourselves. I need a good laugh, because Swedish television isn’t all that entertaining.

By James

May 2, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Sven, GO HOME! Please tell me home is not here. America is no more morally bankrupt than the rest of the world. Europe ain’t all that morally rich. Also, it depends on what you consider moral. We like stuff here, and our church folks are a bit hypocritical, but we are who we are.

Also, Jack is right, we have more folks fighting, begging, stealing & smuggeling to get into this country as it offers these unwed mothers & everyone else the best opportunities to provide for their familites.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Yes Sandy. The Republicans are blowing it. It will hurt them in the next election. If they push thru the up & down vote on nominees, they’ll be kicking themselves when they don’t have the majority.

By David

May 2, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

Jack, I’ve actually fought for this country. There is more to being a good citizen than being a “good consumer”.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 2, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

FYI-there are two Sandys here today; Sandy of 10:43 post to be known as Sandy/Sanhan. Welcome, other Sandy… Hold on tight, you may be in for a bumpy ride.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

I applaud you for serving David. You may not have had the opportunity to serve if Sven had his way.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

Well David, My prioity is making sure that my kids have the freedom to GET an education. The government is doing the one thing it SHOULD be doing…providing for the national defense. Education is a local issue. PERIOD. The Feds should not be spending any money on education EXCEPT as a clearinghouse for information about what works.

By Ben

May 2, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

I think you need to worry about what the Swedish government is doing and keep the peanut gallery quiet. Swedes, particularly YOU, shouldn’t worry about what’s going on in the USA, especially when you are on your way to economic disaster. If I’m correct, Swedes are looking to their government for jobs, health care and you have a pretty over run welfare system yourself. Maybe if you spent a little more on your military and joined the good fight, you could get an SUV too.

By Sven

May 2, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Oh, I have no illusions of utopia here in Sweden, but all the same. We don’t need guns, locked doors, children on the street, and SUVs to attain happiness. LOL!

By David

May 2, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

Chuck, thanks for the little nationalistic post. We need that, because I haven’t seen enough flag-waving in the past four years. You must be a real American.

FYI, Bush and company have increased the number of terrorist threats to the point where they are no longer including the number on the national report. That’s how safe we are with the neocons in the fold. So peddle your wares somewhere else.

Meanwhile, in the real world, children need the opportunity for education, whether it’s supported by the state or by the federal government.

It’d be nice to have a real debate in here without the re-spouting of Boortz, FOX, and other state-sponsored clearinghouses for propaganda. Don’t stray too far from your ivory towers, you might fall into reality.

In the meantime, have a nice day.

By Brett

May 2, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

So, Sven, I take it your country: 1) has no firearms 2)does not have SUV’s or 8 cylinder engines and never locks their car or house doors???? Wow!!! Are you SURE you’re not in Utopia????

No guns AND unlocked doors…now that’s amazing. Maybe you’re time warped back to the early 50’s!!!

By Jack

May 2, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Bumpy is fun! LOL

Hi Norman. I see you’re up to your old tricks.

By RS

May 2, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

I suppose I’m “morally bankrupt” because I spend the money I make on my family & myself instead of subsidizing every drug-addicted criminal piece of trash in the street; oh wait; I DO subsidize them; it’s called TAXES. Jen: I went to private school till Jr High, then public. Tim, you’d make a GREAT dad! BTW, how was your birthday?

By kimberly

May 2, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

It gives me NO pleasure to admit it, but Sven has some good points. We ARE obsessed with money, and our kids are coming up twice as materialistic as we did. Do your kids have TVs in their rooms? Computers? Video games? Do they hound you weekly for new games, CDs, iPods, Abercrombie & Fitch clothing? But just TRY to get ‘em to read Tom Sawyer.. Hahaha!

I look around me — so many people who equate material acquisition with success or happiness. TV commercials are getting worse every day. The kid is nervous on his first day in a new school, but since his Mom drops him off in a BRAND NEW HUMMER, all is well, he will be accepted by his new peers…. What a righteous family! EWWWW!

Meanwhile… some children go to bed hungry and sick because they were born to bad parents. Do we care?

By Jack

May 2, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

Do you get your news from the Daily Show or CBS David?

By Tim

May 2, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

RS… thanks for the compliment… hopefully one day I will have the opportunity to find out if I will make a good dad :) my birthday was good… spend with my family… sorry… no wild stories to tell haha ;)

and I too enjoy spending my money on my family and myself seeing as I am the one who worked for it :)

By David

May 2, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

Um, Jack, here’s stating the obvious by my presence here, but I read the papers.

I watch very little television anymore. The internet allows me the convenience of reading papers here and abroad, which is good, because you get to see different perpectives on the same stories.

While in the military, I lived in Karlsruhe, Germany for three years, served in Desert Storm in KSA, Kuwait, and finally Iraq. Living abroad and serving in the military opened my eyes to the effects of US foreign policy- the bad and the good, and it made me appreciate things about America while also appreciating things about other countries.

I think if everyone had the opportunity to see other countries, they would appreciate their own country that much more.

But getting back to the news topic..I don’t think US news lies or obscures, but I do think they don’t investigate enough due to budget constraints, so often stories (AP or Reuters) are passed along several networks without any other perspective, and so .. I don’t think anyone anymore can view news as a passive act- I think you have to dig and decide for yourself.

By RS

May 2, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

Tim: I’m sure, from what I’ve seen, you’re an exemplary friend & family member; you deserve a legal spouse to share all your wonderful qualities with

By Jack

May 2, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

David I completely agree with your last post. (I just did a t** for tat on mine. I can be a smartass sometimes)

By Jack

May 2, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

How bout that folks, they censor t** and leave smartass. Amazing!

By David

May 2, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

Jack, all my friends and family would say the same about me…I get a little incendiary, as well.

By Angie

May 2, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

It amazes me what you can say on TV and the radio these days!!! Come on folks….we don’t need all the cussing and foul language everywhere we turn. (Get that enough in the workplace!!! haha) The media once again let’s everyone down with it’s low morals and incompetant reporting and lack of real journalism.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Once i saw them censor v**** but not p***. Those are anatomically correct terms!

By lozen

May 2, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Oh well, here we go on another “mass distraction” topic! It’s those poor, slutty single mothers who are ruining this country and taking all our tax dollars! The question might be, “Should big wealthy U.S corporations be getting thousands of dollars in welfare (tax breaks) each year? The question might be, “Why do we spend 25 times what any other nation spends on defense?” But no, it’s so easy to picture that welfare queen in our minds and attack single mothers instead.

By norman

May 2, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this

Good to hear from you, Jack. While we’re playing moralists why not ask why all those ministers who flocked to the tv screen to say how wonderful Jennifer and John were had not counseled them that living together before marriage was not the Christian way? Duluth seems drenched in piety yet those two have been living together long prior to their marriage non-event.

Also, rarely have I heard so much nastiness in the comments. Those pious types don’t seem to mind their living together but do want to stone her for spoiling their lousy booze-free Methodist wedding. I went to a Methodist wedding once and swore I would never again attend a wedding without alcohol.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 2, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Thanks for that info, Jack. For you, I’ll be Sandy/Smartass then; better than a Dumbass. I’ve been both. Smartass is better.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

A wedding without alcohol!!!!!???? That’s just WRONG!

But then, having grown up in New Orleans, I also think it’s wrong that I can’t buy alcohol on Sunday……

By Jack

May 2, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

Lozen Sweetie, if they didn’t get the breaks, we would pay more for the product & our military is 25 times stronger than the other nations. I can live with that.

By TH

May 2, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

The government already subsidizes child care for too many. I work with many teen parents. The teens must attend a parenting seminar each month and submit a school attendance record and in return these teens receive free child care. Several of the teens have commented on the number of participants that sleep through this programs and are totally disinterested in the information being presented. I believe these types of subsidy programs are also available through welfare-to-work program. I am a hard working parent that must pay Big Bucks for child care expenses. I am tired of irresponsible teens and adults having children that they cannot afford. Education on parental responsibility is a joke. These people are being taught at home to abuse the system. Many teens believe everyone receives WIC because they are pregnant or have a baby. I had one teen comment that the hospital delivers all babies for free. I corrected her very quickly. Food stamps are used to purchase candy. The candy is resold at school and in communities. The money is then used to purchase drugs, etc. Teens mothers turn over their child’s social security number to relatives and neighbors to claim on tax returns. The relative or neighbor offers the teen a couple hundred dollars for this favor. Where is the IRS in these situations? We as taxpayers are being riped off.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

David, The feds spend billions on an educational bureacracy that is absolutely USELESS as far as educating kids goes. For example, the National Clearinghouse for Educational Statistics (NCES) does a national survey every 3-4 years on the “state” of education in the country. They did a survey in 1999 and the results were not released until AFTER they sent the pre-surveys out for the 2003 Survey. In other words, by the time they released the results from the survey, they were OBSOLETE. The feds don’t belog in education.

Just so you know, I don’t know where you live, but here in Georgia, we provide a FREE public education from prekindergarten through college. Any kid who lives in Georgia can be schooled for FREE. This is true throughout much of the country. Even if they don’t have the HOPE scholarship like we do, poor children can get a pell grant that more than covers the cost of tuition and books. If they live in Georgia they can get BOTH. So, don’t tell me that kids NEED education. Any kid that wants one can already get one.

As for NATIONALISM, I don’t think that is such a bad thing. You probably had it yourself at one time…then you spent all that time with your socialist/liberal friends in Europe and they convinced you that that was a BAD thing. My dictionary defines it as:

na·tion·al·ism n. Devotion to the interests or culture of one’s nation. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.

I have NO PROBLEM putting the interests of AMERICA FIRST. If we all did that, we could solve many of the problems of the rest of the world. The reason we have poverty here is because many Americans make poor choices. We are the only superpower left in the world and we do have responsibilities to the rest of the world, but those responsibilities are secondary. We became a superpower because people have always understood the power of freedom. Unfortunately for some, that freedom also includes the freedom to screw up. Your mentality would relieve those folks of the personal responsibility for their own choices under freedom. That, my friend is NOT what America is all about. I’m perfectly willing to allow you to make your own choices, just don’t ask me to pick up the pieces for your decision to smoke weed and party while I was going to school and working two jobs to pay for it and support my family. There is not a greater country on the face of the earth and I’m proud that it is my HOME SWEET HOME. If that offends you, TOUGH.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

TH, we are not being “riped” off. As I said before, around or less than 2% of spending is on welfare.

By Allison

May 2, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

TH, I don’t think free childcare is the answer, but sliding-scale childcare would be a better choice. If the parents are unable to show due diligence in at least trying to support themselves, the children should be wards of the state.

By TH

May 2, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

What? Wards of the State!!! Let’s just take away all responsibility from parents. Have as many as you want. We will deliver them and raise them. Uncontrollable birth rate???

By David

May 2, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Chuck, you don’t offend me, but your ignorance does. Smoke weed? You really watch too much tv.

America’s educational system is grossly mismanaged on federal and state levels, and while I can see that, I have no easy answers for it. I have read Bill Gates address on the subject, and the fact that he says he’s hard pressed to find reasons why he should hire ignorant American graduates over foreign, well, that’s an alarm bell people should take heed to.

Yes, I believe nationalism is a bad thing, because I know my history, and I remember Rome, The Third Reich, and Stalin. It sickens me to see the “Power of Pride” bumperstickers, because I’m old-fashioned and conservative (truly conservative), meaning I still believe in the seven deadly sins. I love my country, have served for my country, but I won’t be blinded by rampant flag-waving to the problems that exist in my country.

You’re right. Poverty is here because Americans make poor choices; they vote for corporate interests and not national interests. Both Democrats and Republicans have their heads in corporate troughs so deep, that I truly fear for our futures. I fear for the end of this democratic republic, and I really hope people will start paying closer attention to how the government spends their money.

What I see is how American military manufucturers have over 80% of arms sold abroad to dictators and put us in a never-ending cycle of war- Bush and Carlyle’s wet dream come true.

Don’t tell me I don’t love my country. I certainly don’t have to prove it to a white-bread, white-collar, chicken-hawk, arrogant fool like you.

By lozen

May 2, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

2 percent or less of the U.S. budget is spent on welfare.

By Allison

May 2, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

TH, you’re too ignorant to own a computer. How many question marks does you need to understand it would remove the financial incentive for people who “work the system” to have children?

By lozen

May 2, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

You go David! You are showing some sense and some ability to think for yourself. So you will be attacked by those who have none and can’t think for themselves on either religion or politics. I am happy to have you on this forum.

By barbara

May 2, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

Government Nannies to raise politically correct little liberals. Absurd. Another liberal step closer to their panacea of Socialism. Let’s all work for the government and get a monthly allowance.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

See, that’s two people, me and lozen, who have pointed out that 2% or less of spending is on welfare. yet, it seems everyone is ignoring that fact….

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 2, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Chuck, there in Georgia, you get what you pay for… low taxes mean low quality of education. Lots of people in Roswell supplement their kids’ education with tutoring and outside lessons because they know the schools aren’t providing much challenge or a well-rounded education. I just moved out of Roswell, one of the best districts in Georgia, back to Upstate New York, for that reason. We pay high taxes and the education is better. (For one thing, they teach actual science here, and don’t waste time with the creationism issue).

I recently reiterated to one of my neighbors that I am relieved to be able to talk politics again in my beloved “Blue State” without worrying about one of my neighbors stabbing me in the back, as I am a moderately liberal Democrat. He laughed, saying that he is a true Republican, but refused to join the Republican committee here whose main goal is to lower the town taxes. He moved here for the schools, and the schools are some of the best in the country (in the top 100 high schools in the US) For some of us, it’s the best of both worlds, the diversity of public school with a high academic standards. All in all, cheaper than private school. But it comes with a price; I could never own my own home here, but my tax dollars are spent just the same. For now, it’s a price I’m willing to pay.

Unfortunately, the educational system is set up to fail: Kids in poor neighborhoods get less education because of their poor tax base. Not really a great approach to American education.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

2% is 2% of my money.

Get up on the wrong side of the bed Chuck?

By lozen

May 2, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

Jen, yeah nobody wants to hear that 2 percent thing. I guess it’s more complicated to try to figure out what the government is doing to us taxpayers(protecting corporate interests because that’s where their money comes from) than to rant about people on welfare. And David also pointed that out early this morning!

By kimberly

May 2, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

David, YOU ROCK! I also am sickened by the Power of Pride stickers. (Will a “good” Christian confirm, as I am not up on my verse memorization: Doesn’t the bible warn about the sin of pride?) If you love a person, you see them for their talents AND their flaws. You help them if they’re sick; you enlighten them if they’re uninformed. If we LOVE America, shouldn’t we do the same?

BLIND FAITH IN BAD LEADERSHIP IS NOT PATRIOTISM!

By TH

May 2, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Dear Allison, I appreciate your concern. How would you suggest we determine if a person has shown diligence in providing for their child(ren)? Who would determine this? Why should any money I pay in taxes (even 2%) go to someone else’s child care expenses? They decided to have them and they should handle all related expenses. I used the multiple question marks to emphasis my question concerning your post. I am sorry you were offended by them. Have a great day!

By Jen

May 2, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

TH, as long as you are using anything funded by taxes, such as roads, or ever have, such as education, then you are obligated to pay those taxes. It’s called a society.

Jack, so you resent the 2% that goes to welfare, helping out those who are in need, who are mostly children, but you have no problem with the much larger percentage spent on business and military? Don’t get me wrong. I like having a strong military. My dad is a VV and my brother in law is a Captain in our Army. But you would do away with a 2% expenditure on welfare?? You have no concern for your fellow Americans? You have no interest in helping out others? Are you really like that???? Unbelievable. Have you never needed help?

I’m sick of the down with France stickers. My husband is french-cajun. That’s our heritage. I’m not going to engage in that kind of behavior….it’s ridiculous.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Sandy/Sanhan - I went to school here and then we moved to Syracuse & then to PA before comming back here. My 6th grade classes up North were WAY more difficult than my 10th grade classes here. That’s why Southerners have to wear the “dumb hick” moniker. Unfortunate since we do spend a lot on education. Before I get attacked, I’m from the North but have lived down here the majority of my life and love it. Just wish we could get the same quality of bread down here. I miss the hoagies.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

So David, I guess when you said:

It’d be nice to have a real debate in here without the re-spouting of Boortz, FOX, and other state-sponsored clearinghouses for propaganda., What you really meant was, I’m a LIBERAL who doesn’t work and wants the government to support me while I snort Coke and have illegitimate children and if you don’t agree with me then I will call you really mean names.

That is the way to get your ideas across and gain respect for your opinions…at least from Lozen. Are you two related?

It would really be nice to have a debate here without whiny little LIBERALS getting their feelings hurt when their statements of America loathing don’t gain universal approval. It would also be nice if just ONE of you on the left could leave the emotional rhetoric at the door and actually bring up points that make sense that we can debate.

Here is some “debate” for you:

Country % of Global GDP % of World Population USA 32.9% 4.65% Japan 13.4% 2.09% Germany 6.0% 1.36% Britain 4.6% 0.99% France 4.2% 0.97% China 3.7% 20.84% Italy 3.5% 0.95% Canada 2.3% 0.51% Mexico 2.0% 1.62% Spain 1.9% 0.65%

America with its LIBERTY creates one third of the world’s wealth with only 4.5% of its population. Sounds to me like our system is working pretty well compared to the rest of the world.

From your tone, it really doesn’t sound like you love this country. I hear Kuwait has really great weather this time of year.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

yes, chuck, us liberal live off the government…that’s why I paid 42K in taxes this year…..

if you can vote then your opinion matters…bar-none.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

Jen, I am not like that. I don’t mind TEMPORARY assistance. Do you like to pay for people who have had 2-3 generations on welfare?

By chuck

May 2, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, I’m not into “pride” in the normal sense of the word, however, I grew up in abject poverty, and I appreciate the opportunity this country and its LIBERTY provided me. I started working outside the home when I was 12. I had to buy all of my own school clothes and supplies, because my parents A WWII vet and 35 year veteran of the fire department could not afford to do that for all 5 kids. As second oldest, as soon as I was able, I was expected to be self-sufficient. It took me 14 years to get my BS degree while raising a family and working full time. I now have 4 graduate degrees that also were earned while working full time. Nobody but my parents when they could afford to help, gave me anything EXCEPT the opportunity to succeed on my own effort. So forgive me if I think that my hard-earned money belongs to ME.

The plain truth of the matter is DAVID, that these corporations that you denigrate so severely, create the wealth and stability that drive this country. I’m sick of the left’s demonization of capitalism. It is what makes this country great.

By TH

May 2, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

Jen, I was only referring to tax dollars used for child care. I gladly pay taxes for roads, education, etc. I just don’t think we should subsidize child care expenses for people who are not prepared for the responsiblities of parenthood. I do believe we are preparing these post on the topic of government sponsored child care. I am sorry that you are confused.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

42k in taxes. Yeah, and if I had a beard I’d be Abe Lincoln. LOL!

By Jen

May 2, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

It’s not capitalism we hate, Chuck, it’s monopolies and rampant corporate trampling on citizens. You might have pulled yourself up by your bootstraps, but that doesn’t make you unique. It makes you freakin American.

And if you don’t keep a check on those corporations you’d lose it all. We’ve got your rights in mind. Because of liberals you got the opportunities to do well.

But not everyone gets that chance. Unfortunately, for the poor and downtrodden, which your family obviously wasn’t, it’s all they can do to just survive from day to day. Asking them to succeed without at least a leg up is asking the impossible.

It’s obvious these ranters don’t really know true poor people. They’re ranting against a stereotype that’s fed to them. All they picture is some big ole black women, hair in rollers, sitting on the dilapidated front porch of her project home, drinking Schlitz and complaining about The Man. That’s what you guys are picturing.. And it’s disgusting, because you can’t see what it really is.

The biggest cause of poverty is lack of education (and we still allow kids to drop out of school at age 16) and traumatic medical problems. The latter of those two can happen to anyone. Not even people like me, making 6 figures, with good health insurance, and good savings, could weather a devastating long term illness. And most people aren’t as solvent as I am. It’s not easy to be solvent at any income. Most people aren’t, even those making much more than me…..

By Brian Curtis

May 2, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

I’m enjoying watching Chuck get his head handed to him yet again on yet another issue. Go, David, go!

“Capitalism is what makes this country great”… spoken like a good little brainwashed stooge, Chuck. I could’ve sworn our highest ideals were about democracy, and capitalism was an afterthought (not even mentioned in our Constitution).

The wealthy elite LOVE voters like you, Chuck; you don’t think and you constantly support and cheer for the guys who are screwing you into the dirt. When you’re not whining about those horrible, horrible people on welfare, of course.

It’s David’s turn to confront you with the cool, objective facts you always demand (and yet never supply); me, I’m gonna just enjoy the show as you thrash around getting madder and madder that someone else has run even MORE intellectual circles around you. Yee-ha!

By Kgal

May 2, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

As a single mom myself, raising two happy, healthy, NON-materialistic kids, AND never having taken one single dime from the public trough, I find it so funny to see outsiders views of how they think Americans are morally bankrupt, not all look for someone else shoulder their burdens. I haven’t, it’s not how I was raised. My kids have a roof over their heads, food on the table, clothes on their backs. Why? Because I work to provide it for them, and I pay for after school care for my youngest. Do I spoil them? With love yes, materially no. They don’t have video games or computers or tv’s in their rooms, no designer clothes in their closets. They’re charged with getting their homework done when they get home from school, before they do anything else, and they DO IT. They’re not A students because they forgo their studies. Because that’s how I’ve raised them. I do think parents need to focus on being parents as opposed to trying to be their kids best friend.

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

First of all, it is assumed that just because there are 2 working parents that financially they are set. This is a huge misconception. There are many 2 parent homes in which childcare is still ridiculously high. I have to agree with both women to some extent.

I do not agree that all single mothers should receive subsidized government childcare. I believe there should be criteria other than the amount of hours they work. If they are also receiving other gov. benefits they should not be allowed to take advantage of 2, 3, and sometimes 4 social services programs. These women that are getting food stamps, childcare assistance, medicaid, and Section 8 need to be made to choose a social service. We have too many families that are sucking up the money out of certain programs, and it makes it hard for those who also need assistance but cannot get it because there is no money.

I decided to have my child and I made sure I had the finances and resources to have him, and I’m a single parent. I do not expect the gov to pay for my son’s daycare. It was my decision to have him and it is my resp to take care of him.

Having a child and then expecting the gov to take up the slack is a shiftless motive, in my opinion. I believe that ALL people receiving some sort of government assistance should have to do volunteer work in exchange. Give back to the community and the gov.
Lyrazel- great post, as usual. One prob though. Most of the time they can’t “find” the absent fathers to put them on child support.

Bruce- not all unemployed women are “childcare provider” material. There are many of my clients here that I would never want working in my son’s daycare. Putting uneducated, inarticulate women in the daycares will only prove more sad, as they will pass on their bad judgement, to some extent, to their charges. I cannot agree that all single mothers should be given subsidized childcare. If you cannot pay for your childcare don’t continue to give birth to children that you are not financially able to take care of. It’s that simple. Use BC. If you are married you could still be smart about it. If you get divorced how will you pay for things like childcare. YEah, the judge can put child support in the divorce decree, but some men will still not pay.

Sandy- the benefits more than outweigh the cost of implementing stiffer social service requirements. The system is being run down and has lost integrity because there are too many people taking advantage of the monies provided. If we must pay the cost to monitor the programs so be it. It may be easier to write out a check, but I shouldn’t have to pay for it, and neither should anyone who is not directly involved in the child’s life. I worked at DFCS and am now at a different social services agency, and these programs would benefit from stiffer penalties, rules, and regs.

Jen- if you sit in your office and listen to the gobs of bullsh*t being peddled from recipients you would understand that even though it’s “only 2%” it’s still millions of dollars that could go to education. We’re talking about the very people that need to be educated!

Lozen- it’s easy for me to picture them. I have to see 14 of them a day, 5 days a week and listen to them lie like rugs, talk down to their children, drive away in SUVs, and complain about their free rent and food stamp allotments.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Jen, I don’t recall anyone saying black. Maybe that’s what you picture eh?

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

TH- finally someone else who knows what’s REALLY going on.
WIC mandates the kind of foods that can be purchased, but you can walk into a store with an EBT card and buy a buggy full of Pepsi and cheetos. FDR was on the money when he implemented the FS program so that Americans would be well-nourished.

Jen- how many millions of dollars is that “less than 2%”? Now ask yourself if those millions could be better used in some way. Less than 2 % is not the same as 0.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

Akeya - Good post. You go girl!

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 2, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Chuck, the US also uses up about 1/3 of the resources on the planet, leaving behind vast amounts of waste and pollution.

We put dictators in power, and subvert and overthrow other nations’ legitimate governments. Gee, maybe so many neocons believed that Saddam had WMDs because we sold or gave him the components back when he was our buddy. Remember the photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam? Almost as sickening as watching the leader of the free world hold hands with the Prince in Charge of the Oil.

Our great wealth could be a force for alleviating suffering in Africa, across the planet, and even in our own country, but we’re too busy spending money on a war to bring democracy to a region not yet ready for it, and giving tax cuts to corporations and people who don’t need them. We’re watching the last safety net of the middle class be torn to shreds when the real crisis in this country is the high cost/poor health care delivery here at home. Or is too emotional to admit that we are wrong sometimes?

I love this country too, and I am grateful for the sacrifice of our soldiers, most of whom are not in the upper class. I am loathe to see what is happening to our constitutional ideals in the guise of patriotism in the hands of people who have no clue what it is like to be struggling in the lower and middle classes, but are willing to send them to war. What sacrifices have the upper class neocons made? What have they achieved?

And while I’m being emotional, remember that Mother’s Day originated as a war protest, not has a Hallmark holiday.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

Well Jen, my family income was lower than the poverty level my whole life, until I was an adult on my own. Several great corporations paid me a really good salary for the work that I did for them. It enabled me to finish school and get a job teaching that I absolutely love. I make enough money to support my family comfortably, though certainly not in any extravagant manner. None of that would have been possible without CAPITALISM.

BTW, we don’t have monopolies in this country. There is a little law called the Sherman Antitrust Act that outlawed them at the turn of the century (20th not 21st). Remember AT&T? Yes, these huge multinational conglomerates can be a little scary in terms of the money and power they weild, but I am not willing to castigate all of them for the acts of a few (Many of which have been or are being prosecuted). I also think that anyone in government who takes bribes or other considerations from them ILLEGALLY should be prosecuted and jailed…including Tom Delay if that applies to him…but I object to the wide brush the Lefties paint with. These corporations provide jobs, childcare, scholarships, AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN CHARITABLE GIVING among countless other benefits. Yes they look out for their own interests AND SHOULD as long as they stay within the law to do so.

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

Jack- thanks :)
It boils me that people really have no idea what’s going on. Cheating is still cheating!! Just because it’s a small amount does not make it right.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

We also supplied the Iranians before they took our people hostage. Go Jimmy!

By Jen

May 2, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

You don’t have to believe me…the IRS sure did.

You do realize that 42K, in the 28% tax bracet means a gross of 150K??? That’s a dual income, now.

Yes, and I am liberal.

TH, but you did go to public school, right, at some point? So, you used taxpayer services.

If you know anything about the working poor then you should know they aren’t looking to live off the government. They are just trying to get by and get ahead.

By TH

May 2, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Akeya,

Many purchase candy and cookies with FS funds and resell to buy drugs, alcohol, etc. I heard of so many ways to work the system that I cannot mention them all in one day.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Brian, the only intellectual circle you’ve ever been a part of is the low level reading group you were in in Kindergarten.

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Jen- you do realize there are some “working poor” that are looking to get over? I see it every day. They work just enough to maintain their childcare subsidy certs while other women who are busting their asses could benefit from them more.

These “working poor” often won’t do more than the very minimum required to maintain their Section 8 vouchers and insure that their food stamps don’t drop. The turn down better opportunities to continue leeching off of the system.

By RS

May 2, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

ANY percent is too much. What we are talking about is the govt FORCIBLY taking money from those of us who are working to support ourselves & our families and giving it to a bunch of strangers who are popping out illegitimate babies they know they can’t afford. And yet no one can tell me WHY these losers deserve a free ride at our expense. Want to help others? How about veterans who come home to NO pensions & benefits after bravely serving the US & returning to our shores hideously maimed? Abused animals? The critically ill & injured?

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

TH- let’s not forget that some use the money from their fraudulent FS card use to buy beer and cigs to sell out of their homes. Let’s not even start with illegal immigrants and fraud. Oh boy!

By rocky

May 2, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

Boy that Sven sounds like a svell guy, doesn’t he? Tell us - what is better about Sweden than America? Is it your socialist government? Your lack of any kind of presence in world matters? Or is it your inability to produce anything of value other than good meatballs? Face it. Your country is not only useless but irrelvant to nations like ours who have not only achieved greatness economically, but our people are smarter, our land is prettier and our language doesn’t sound like someone is trying to cough up a hairball. You can protest all you want, but your envy is seeping through your words more clearly than you’d like. Why are you on our blog if you hate our country so much? I certainly wouldn’t waste my precious time articulating on a swedish blog. In fact, I can’t think of a single thing that more laughable or that I care less about than your pitiful country and people like you who live there. Spare us your superiority act. You’re nothing but an American wannabe. And the more you deny it, the more obvious it is that it’s true.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

This guy in NW Atlanta had a good scam. he owned a little grocery store and would buy food stamps from people for 50 cents on the dollar then turn around and sell them beer & wine that they couldn’t get with food stamps. The police finally caught the guy. he was making 35k per week doing this. No, nobody’s working the system.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

Wait, if you think the 2% (which is billions) is too much to spend on welfare then what do you thing of 20something 5(how many billions is that?) that’s spent on corporate handouts (aka corporate welfare)?

Akeya, I’m not syaing the current welfare system doesn’t need fixing but I don’t think cutting funds is the way to go, and I’m talking Medicaid, too, not just WIC and “food stamps”. And I agree with spending more on education ( I know it’s a state thing, I think that’s part of the problem). Like I mentioned, we still don’t ensure our citizens get a high school diploma. You can still drop out. That’s a real crime.

Jack, that’s the mental picture you’ve been painting all day on this board. Insert any color other than white there, if you want, but you’d better believe it’s gonna either be black or hispanic. Either are disgusting stereotypes.

chuck, like I said, your story don’t make you unique. It makes you american. I can relate a similar story to you about my husband’s childhoon and how he overcame it to go on to help us earn that nice living we now earn…whatever. Working hard is important but sometimes it’s not enough to get over that obstacle.

By barbara

May 2, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Actually, Jen the stereotype you’ve just described is what I seed when I drive through South Georgia - and you’re right - it is disgusting to see what my hard earned money is paying for. I’m all for helping people in need but I don’t drive down the street throwing money out the window, irrespective of the recipient.

By Lola

May 2, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Amen, RS! I know that paying taxes is a part of living in our great country, but I also believe that people who pay taxes should be allowed to dictate to which programs that money goes. Then I think there would be less animosity from the people in this country who actually pay for the social services that are provided to others. I am a regular blood donor - just hit my 5 gallon mark! And I feel good about giving blood because I consider that my donation to society, and I don’t ever have to worry about it being “misspent” or used on programs I disagree with. I wish I had as much control over the money that is seized from my paycheck every two weeks.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Jen - when you say “corporate handouts”, are you referring to tax cuts?

By Jen

May 2, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

See, now the focus is on the abuse as a reason to discard the whole system. No, that negligent. I’m all for some sort of reform. I’m not for dumping it. Akeya, you seem to be very familiar with the system. And very intelligent. Perhaps you should consider working towards fixing it.

RS, okay, so you’re not interested in helping out the unfortunate. Fine, so you’re not very generous. I imagine that you would never ask for help should you get cancer and go through your savings, use up your medical insurance cap, lose your home, etc. You’re very strong for standing up and saying you’d rather die on the streets than accept help from taxpayers. Well, I’d still want to help you.

But you’re right about the veterans. The way this country treats it’s veterans is shameful….and another discussion.

RS, are you a libertarian? That would explain a lot.

By Chris

May 2, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Govt. subsidies for day care? To a certain extent yes. Further, I think all day-care costs should be completely tax deductable for couples, not just for single parents. Why do I believe in a certain level of tax subsidies? Simple: You can do nothing now and then pay later on an average of $50K-$60K a year to house many of these kids prison when they growup because they never had a decent upbringing. How can they when Mom or Dad have to work 2 jobs back to back just to put food on the table? Either help them now or you will pay later (and pay much more at that). Being a new parent myself, I think that decent day-care for working parents, and not just single parents, is a right and not a luxury. Otherwise all of us in society will suffer for it because we then have a bunch of kids who grow perpetuating a vicious cycle. Many European countries subscribe to this view and guess what?: They have much lower crime rates than we have here in the good ole’ US of A! In most countries there, your day-care bill depends on your income (upto a certain limit ofcourse). The logic here is simple, you can act selfishly and say that we should punish kids for the folly or misfortune of their parents, or we can give them a future with decent day-care. Brutally put, help with a subsidy now, or continue paying $50K-$60K per prisoner a year to house them as adults in prison. Finally, make sex education mandatory so that unnecessary pregnancies can be avoided. And by that I mean to stop this crazy “Abstinence program” because whoever came up with that program obviously forgot what it is like being a sex-crazed teenager!

By Jen

May 2, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

That’s one of many types of corporate welfare. Don’t get me wrong, I like capitalism. I understand some corportate incentives, but what we’ve got know is too expensive….

By lozen

May 2, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

T.H. you said, “I just don’t think we should subsidize child care expenses for people who are not prepared for the responsiblities of parenthood.” Are you advocating abortion? You can’t believe you can stop people from having sex, do you? What should we do about these children?

By chuck

May 2, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Go Kgal and Akeya. YOU know from experience what I am talking about. You see, Jen with her $150,000 spends her days walking around talking to the working poor. I guess that would be her MAID.

Sandy, MUCH OF THE WEALTH of this country IS SPENT helping the people of Sub-Saharan Africa, including BILLIONS of dollars (some of it mine)fighting AIDS. I really would have preferred that that money be spent on CANCER research in THIS country. So Jen, how much of your $150,000 did you send to Africa?

OH and David, how many volunteer hours did you put in tutoring this past month? It is easy to say, let the government do it, but when it comes down to your own passion for the poor…where is the love?

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Jen- we don’t necessarily have to cut the monies. The money could be redirected. Those who are getting benefits should have to volunteer, except for elderly and disabled head of households. AS far as fixing it I am actually in the process of getting my Master’s so that I can be more on the “fixing” end of the problem. With the job that I do now I am actually able to make changes, but on a very minimal level. The changes that I am able to make are more policy changes for our specific agency as opposed to policy changes for the overall program.

By chuck

May 2, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

I meant to say her UNDOCUMENTED ILLEGAL ALIEN MAID.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this

Jen - I have to disagree with you. I don’t consider allowing companies and people who work hard for their money, to keep more of it, to be “corporate welfare”. How is it a handout if it was theirs to begin with? Seems to me it’s just the government feeling entitled to the money of others, and being resentful when more of it is allowed to stay with the earners rather than being redistributed to the unproductive members of society. It is not the job of government to pay for everyone or dictact to people what they should or should not do (within reason, of course). People like Chris, who not only feels like parents should be entitled to free daycare, but also thinks that it is the place of our public schools to decide what our kids should or should not know about sex, are the reason why our government has gotten so big and has overstepped the logical boundaries of where their responsibilities lie. I don’t understand that mentality. How is ANYONE “entitled” to something that requires other Americans to pay for it involuntarily? There is no such thing as the “government” paying for social programs. It is the taxpayers who support them, not the government. We all work hard and we all have families and/or responsibilities. Shouldn’t we all be accountable for our own messes and the decisions we make? Why is it okay to penalize the productive members of society and reward the unproductive? This is a capitalist society. People like Svenvious may resent the fact that our principals are based on personal responsibility, but anyone living here should embrace it and recognize how great our system truly is, rather than trying to turn this country into a socialized nightmare, which is where it seems to be headed at times.

By RS

May 2, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Jen, I HAVE been in dire situations but got myself back on my feet by working hard; I don’t feel I deserve a free ride just for being me; after all, who the $#%^ am I? Just another stranger, when folks are working hard to take care of their own families; I’d never take that away from anyone. Yes, I sure do have libertarian leanings. Lola, I’ve donated blood too. Of course I can’t be sure they won’t give my blood to pedophiles, druggies, pushers etc but what are you gonna do??? Rocky, this may amuse you; did you know Sweden has an alarmingly high suicide rate? No surprise there!

By Jack

May 2, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Jen, I take offense at your comments. I have painted a picture yes. YOU brought color into the blog not me. I am fully aware that most people on welfare are white. I never brought race into this discussion.

By barbara

May 2, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Excellent, Rocky. Taxpayer-supported childcare would take us one step closer to the United States of Roosevelt.

By Bruce

May 2, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

Akyea,

That I will agree with you 100%. Not all people are cut out to be care givers for children. Those are the ones you send out to find jobs else where. Keep the good ones for daycare. There is something everyone CAN do. The problem I have is that there are too many, notice I didn’t say ALL, that are just tickled pink to sit around doing nothing while you and I pay their way in life. If money gets tight they have another kid. More kids = more money. That just doesn’t sit well with me. I agree with whoever said TEMPORARY help for the needy. I do not agree with permanent help for the lazy.

I, as I am sure mmost of us here do, work hard for the money I make. I wish I didn’t have to pay anything to anyone except who I WANT to give it too. I agree with paying more for our military because without it we would be in a far worse position than we are now.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

RS - that doesn’t really surprise me, although I do find that pretty hilarious. But then again, if I lived around people like Sven every day, I’d probably welcome death too.

By Chris

May 2, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Rocky,

Sorry dude but I never said “free day-care” (I wish it were so b/c that would save me $1200/month, lol). I said that perhaps day-care costs should be based on income. If public schools aren’t the place to teach sex education, then where? Obviously what we have right now ain’t working! The teen pregnancy rates in this country are way ahead of any country in Europe, where sex education is taught in schools. Ditto for sexually transmitted diseases among teens! Lastly, do you pay your county taxes? If you don’t have kids, you are paying for someone elses to go go to your local public school. Public schooling is a right, isn’t it? Why not decent day-care? Lastly, its a matter of compassion as well as economics. Compassion because is it fair to punish kids of poor single mothers/fathers because of the misfortune/folly of their parent(s)? Economics because I have a problem with paying $50K-$60K a year to house these kids in prison once they turn adults because we did not invest a 10th of that to give them a chance to a decent start in life!

By majelix

May 2, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

rocky: “How is ANYONE “entitledâ€? to something that requires other Americans to pay for it involuntarily?”

It requires other Americans to pay for the police, fire, and military, but certainly you’d agree that we’re entitled to physical protection?

By kimberly

May 2, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Rocky: “Shouldn’t we all be accountable for our own messes and the decisions we make?” Abortion on demand. Stop government intervention into doctors and clinics and the wombs of individuals trying to HANDLE their messes. Government is getting smaller now: small enough to fit into our bedrooms, bathrooms, and doctor’s offices. Sadly, it is at the same time, still bigger and costlier than ever.

Corporate welfare: tax cuts that deplete the public coffer, ensuring that CEOs (who collect million dollar paychecks for making bad decisions that affect thousands of employees and many more in their communities) do not have to personally “eat” their mistakes by losing a dime of their own. Who “eats” the mistakes? The laid-off workers, their wives, and their kids. Show me one CEO who eats his own mistakes!

By chuck

May 2, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

Here is a solution that Jen and David and Lozen and Brian Curtis should be proud to endorse:

Let’s support as Americans, EVERY person who has abdicated responsibility for their choices…with this stipulation. If you don’t take responsibility for your choices, you don’t get to choose anymore.

1) We put every person on Public Support into housing dormitories by gender and age. 2) All meals would be taken together in the dining hall and it would be a no frills, nutritionally sound 3 meals a day. 3) All adults would work 40 hours per week on a public works project or be leased out to a company or government agency. 4) All children would be educated on the premises with a set time for homework and study time. Tutors would be provided from among the adults as needed. 5) Curfew would be at 9:00 each evening, only positive, wholesome television and music would be allowed, and then only after homework and chores are complete. 6) Entrance to the dormitory would be controlled by armed guards and drug sniffing dogs. All residents would be subject to search at command. Mandatory drug and alcohol testing would be put into place and anyone testing positive would be removed from support and would have to leave the residence. 7) All visitors would be screened and searched and it would be a felony to bring drugs or alcohol onto the premises. 8) All adults would receive additional education and/or job training as needed. 9) After the completion of job training/education, each resident would be taught job-seeking skills.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

Jen would rather have to pay 50% than 28%. I just love when people put words into my mouth/post. You showed your true color Jen. maybe you should go live with Sven.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 2, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

Chuck, spending money and effectively spending money is perhaps the real issue. Are the dollars being spent effectively in this war for democracy in the Middle East? Not if our soldiers don’t have the bodily or vehicular armor they need. How about the money going to Africa or the tsunami victims? How is it being spent? Is it reaching the people who need it most? What about administrative costs? Our president wants to dismantle Social Security in favor of private accounts; but who is going to pay for the upstart costs and who is going to manage this system and for how much? We’re supposed to trust capitalists who gave us Enron and Healthsouth, and a bunch of other economic scandals to manage our private accounts for us, for a fee of course. Meanwhile, lets stick it to folks who declare bankruptcy due to health issues.

There is this erroneous sense that if you are in America and you are poor or struggling, that somehow it’s your own fault and you deserve it.

Folks who have to work more than one job, or as my husband has done, work 400 miles away in another city, coming home only every two weeks, know that these efforts, despite their nobility, are as much a cause of a breakdown of the family as anything. Thankfully, this nightmare ends as he returns for good tomorrow. We’ve decided that our family being together is more important than the $20,000 pay cut he’s taking. Anyway, see you at the poor house.

Rocky, now that I have an aged father whose health is rapidly declining, the Swedish system doesn’t look too bad. Cradle to grave health care is a right, not a luxury afforded to some and not others.

By Lola

May 2, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

That’s true, RS. You have no control over whom your blood will save and I’ve never actually thought of it that way. But I know that nobody is “milking” the blood donation system, and that even if the life I save is that of a killer or criminal of some sort, at least the blood is being used for the exact purpose I meant it to be used for.

My husband and I were lucky enough to find a wonderful daycare close to home, and MUCH less expensive than most, but it was only through months and months of searching and researching while I was pregnant that we found this place. But we have also made the decision to have only one child, because we can’t afford daycare for two children and we absolutely do not feel it is society’s place to suppliment what we can’t pay. We can’t afford for one of us to stay home with our daughter, and I can live with that. But we are also making the sacrifice of having more children because of our financial position. If more people would do that, rather than just having them and THEN worrying about how to pay for them, we wouldn’t have so many people wanting “free” (i.e., taxpayer funded) childcare.

By Vince

May 2, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

Putting people to work, educating on responsibility of children; great ideas. Never gonna happen.

Government, like the medical industry, do not intend to solve any relevant problems, or ails. The intention is to form research groups (this keeps the money flowing in and out). The research groups tell us information several years later. Shaunti ought to know better when quoting government reports. THe latest statistics are from 1999 folks.

If the government truly wanted to fix this problem, it would put alot of anxillary government workers out of a job. No, the interest with Bush and his Budget Busters is to continue to ship jobs out of country, giving better profit margins to his friends who own those companies.

Internal issues are not being resolved. Specifically, when people get in over their heads, they don’t want to hear about what “positive thinking” can do for them. Especially when that advice is coming from someone who has steady employment and didn’t have to worry about student loans after graduation.

Should the government pay? You bet. But as long as the government employs divisions who oppose each other, and as long as Bush stays rich, who is gonna care?

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

Chris- unfortunately childcare is not free like public schools because women are still expected to stay home until their children are in school, but at the same time NOT expected to stay home.

It’s a double -edge sword.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

majelix - police, fire and military are not social programs. They are extensions of the government for our protection and well-being. We are all entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We aren’t all entitled to getting a check from the government, forcibly collected from other Americans. Apples and Oranges, buddy.

And Chris, your daycare total is the same as mine is monthly. As for the sex education, you ask where it should be taught if not the schools? Um, how about FROM THE PARENTS? I don’t happen to believe that my children should be forced to learn about the sexual information that is deemed appropriate by the government. They will learn that information from their mother and me, and not in public school. People have different beliefs and moral values, and you can’t just ignore those and force people to allow their children to learn things outside of those boundaries. If someone is Catholic and doesn’t believe in birth control, how can it be right for them to be forced into putting their children into a class where they are being taught about birth control? You may not agree with that, but it is still the right of the parents to decide what their children will and will not learn in terms of sex and sexual behavior. My children will already know everything they need to know about sex WAY before they are ever old enough to be in one of those classes, thereby ensuring that they already have the foundation of what WE (their parents) have decided is best for them to know. It simply isn’t the place of the government to decide that.

By Netbanker

May 2, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Jen and Lozen raise a good point about the 2% welfare, 30% military. If we are a Christian nation, why does our budget not reflect the teachings of Christ? Why do we not fund care for the poor, widows, children, etc. while we overwhelmingly fund a department that is somewhat at odds with the directive to turn the other cheek?

By Dianne Armistead

May 2, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

No, I do not think the government should pay for child care. Having a child is an option that we should only use if we can afford to support that child.

What about older people that have diseases (certainly not by choice) such as Alzheimers that have to be cared for 24 hours a day. Does the government pay for this? I am trying to keep my husband (he has alzheimers) at home as long as I can, but I am having to pay someone a lot of money (more than child care) to stay with him so I can work. The government does not give me any help. I think if they pay for child care, they should pay for elder care.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Sandy/Sanhan - sounds like you might be more comfortable in Canada or Europe than here. My parents are aging as well, and they take advantage of Medicare and programs like that, into which they have been paying their entire lives, and that helps them afford the healthcare they need. The waiting lists for certain procedures in Canada can be as long as 3-4 YEARS, depending on the procedure. That doesn’t just include elective procedures. That also includes cardiologist visits, EKGs and things like that. There is literally a form letter sent out by the Canadian government, which states something like “your EKG Cardiogram has been scheduled for 6 months from now. If the recipient of this letter has deceased in the meantime, please disregard this appointment.” How sad is that? I would much rather pay for immediate and quality care than live in a nation with the equivalent of a public clinic for a healthcare model.

By barbara

May 2, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

Actutally,public schooling is not a right, the Constitution does not guarantee it, it’s a subjective interpretation. Of course the country is benefited by an educated citizenry, but the fact of human nature is that nothing is unappreciated or misused like that which is free, which costs one nothing in time, sweat, or cash. Taxpayer funded child care would go the same route of public education - ineffective and abused.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

According to the left, we are NOT a Christian nation.

Rock, your posts are always right on. Keep up the good work.

By Pamela

May 2, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

No,the goverment don’t need to pay child care what they need to do is make these daddies pay there child support for the single parents.And then the parents want have to depend on the goverment. If these no good father’s would take on their responable for these kids then the mother want have to looking for the goverment help!!!!!!!!

By Jen

May 2, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

I like all the words put in my mouth.

Yes, I’m liberal, I like social programs, especially efficient ones (which is why I don’t like the current sex ed program). I don’t mind paying for them, either. And I make a good living. So shoot me for wanting to help out my fellow countryman.

And the money spent on the AIDS epidemic in Africa is something we all know will help us ALL in the end…only the shortsighted will say differently.

And chuck, I don’t need a maid. We didn’t buy a McMansion with 8 more rooms than we need for our family. I clean my own house, revel in my own garden, and pay for my own entertainment. What doesn’t go to taxes goes to a gentle standard of living and savings….

I’m American. i believe in freedom and choice. isupport restrained capitalism and our democratic government. So far, it’s been the most successful goverment ever. Socialism is subject to corruption way more than a Republic.

And Rocky, yes, I am against corporate welfare. Just look to Enron. all those hardworking employees lost every dime of their savings. And they’re not getting it back….don’t you think we should help them? No? Why not? That was a decision that was made for them by the corporations they work for… Look, small business is not what I’m talking about…I support small business…but this administrations does not!

By chuck

May 2, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

Sandy, have you ever even talked to a soldier? I have a group of friends that I speak to on a regular basis when they are home and by e-mail when they are overseas. Two of them are in Afghanistan and the others are in Iraq, although one is in Turkey on a temporary assignment. To a man…EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM says that they have everything that they need in the way of Body Armor and Vehicle Armor. You need to stop watching CNN. It is rotting your brain. One friend in Mosul told me that the armor on his hummer saved his life when an ied exploded next to it when they were in transit to a meeting in Bhagdad. There were some problems early on but those have been long rectified with very few exceptions.

As for the corporations you mentioned, I think the executives at each of those companies are under indictment or soon will be. In fact, the Healthsouth guy is being tried NOW as I recall. The system works to find and nail the cheaters. I’m not against that.

By Rita

May 2, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

It always amazes me how those who would call themselves Christians and “compassionate conservatives” are more concerned about the few dollars spent on children and family issues than they are on corporate welfare and taxes that benefit the wealthy. If it is so important to teach these “ignorant, selfish, (__ fill in the blank)” WOMEN (note: rarely are men referred to as “single parents”) a life lesson, it would be that you must work for a living. Safe and affordable childcare is a basic requirement for working families (single or dual).

It would also be nice if childcare workers were paid a living wage, but that’s another topic you can chew on.

To take out your social rage on innocent children by not acknowleding and addressing their need for a safe, healthy place while their “terrible, selfish, ignorant” parent is working a low-wage job to suppliment the $2.50 she receives from the government, is criminal and very un-Christian. Christ walked this earth to set an example of non-judgmental love and service to others. All other interpretations are just a way to justify the very things Christ sought to destroy—hatefulness, selfishness, gluttony, (___fill in the blank). Rather than trying to read the entire Bible, start with the basic scriptures and then pray on it. “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and “(do not) judge lest ye be judged.”

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

Netbanker- because many of the “poor mothers and children” are poor because they choose to be. Until you see it everyday you really don’t know what’s going on. Pamela- most of these “daddies” are lying in the bed with the single mothers reaping the benefits of having a girldfriend who gets government benefits. Rita- when my office is overflowing with single dads begging for food stamps and Section 8 but refusing to work, then will I refer to them more.

By majelix

May 2, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

rocky: “We are all entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We aren’t all entitled to getting a check from the government, forcibly collected from other Americans. Apples and Oranges, buddy.”

So what instead of “How is ANYONE “entitled� to something that requires other Americans to pay for it involuntarily?� you mean “How is ANYONE “entitled� to something other except for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that requires other Americans to pay for it involuntarily ?�?

By chuck

May 2, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

How is the enron situation caused by “corporate welfare”? I’m not even sure you know what the term means after that last post. If the executives stole money from the company, they will be prosecuted and go to jail. I think they should also lose all of their assets as well and the proceeds go to the employees. That is NOT what we are talking about here.

The so-called corporate wellfare refers to tax breaks given to corporations as incentives to expand their businesses. This is a good government action. Corporations should not be given tax breaks though. They should actually not be taxed at all. The profits of the company are distributed to shareholders who ALREADY PAY TAXES ON THEM. Taxing the corporation is DOUBLE taxation. The only good thing about taxing corporations is that we can offer them these incentives which cause them to INVEST and create JOBS for the students we send out into the world.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Jack. I feel very outnumbered on here sometimes.

Jen - My brother-in-law worked for Enron for five years, and I watched helplessly as he and my sister not only lost their only (pretty substantial) income, but all their retirement savings along with it. What did they do? They went out and found part-time or consulting work where they could, dug into their savings and cut out the luxuries until they were able to get back on their feet. Not once did they decide to rely on other taxpayers to pay their way. Did I think they should have? Absolutely not. We all have our problems and nobody’s problems are more important than another’s or more deserving of assistance than another’s. If they hadn’t had savings, they probably would have had to sell one of their cars or move into a smaller house, or whatever. But never, ever did they assume that the American taxpayers should be forced to support them due to the criminal activity of the company he worked for. But Enron is the exception and not the rule as far as corporate abuse of their employees and the ruthless thoughlessness of the executives, and not all companies should be penalized for the unethical behavior of a few. Corporate “welfare” doesn’t exist. It is THEIR MONEY and the government is NOT entitled to it. It makes me laugh when I hear someone referring to a person’s own money as “welfare”. It is the corporations of this country who employ a great many of our citizens and provide us with a strengthening economy. Big business AND small businesses alike are necessary to the success of our capitalist society, and penalizing the successful does nothing but discourage productivity. I will never understand this attitude of entitlement, especially knowing that it isn’t the government providing the money for these social programs, but that it is coming from the paychecks of our neighbors and people in our communities, who also work hard and also have to make decisions and be personally responsible for them. I’m sorry, but I just don’t think it is right, and I find it morally reprehensible when people feel like it is their “right” to be given monetary assistance because they made a bad decision or because the company they worked for went under or turned out to be run by a bunch of crooks. It sucks for them, but it still isn’t everyone else’s problem. That sounds harsh, but that’s the way it is.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

Nope, that’s not all corporate welfare is…..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=corporate+welfare&btnG=Google+Search

By chuck

May 2, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

BTW Jen, you didn’t answer my question. How many of your dollars did you send to Africa last year to help the poor. Again, it’s okay for you to FORCE me to spend my money to help them, but how much of YOUR discretionary money do you send to help them? I think that is a legitimate question.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Enron wasn’t corporate welfare. Those responsible should have their assets frozen and their butts sitting in jail. Corporate welfare is our tax money bailing out the airline industry. Those on the left love spending OUR hard earned money on those that didn’t earn it. Sorry, but I work hard and it angers me to see a big portion of my check going to Uncle Sam. Think of the good we could all do if we were able to keep our entire check. Don’t you think contributions would increase? Americans would step up. We just don’t like to be forced to give.

By rocky

May 2, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

Could someone please interpret what majelix said in that last post? I’m not sure what the question was.

By kimberly

May 2, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Rita, thanks. Your beautifully-worded, inspired sentiments will be mostly ignored here.

They’re not HAPPY unless they’re blaming slackers & sl*ts for something… or everything. The What-Christ-Said argument is only used when they want to DENY someone something, not provide it. Thanks for showing up.

By Jen

May 2, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this

you’re kidding me.

chuck, i did answer your question.

By Jack

May 2, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Dianne, My thoughts and prayers go out to you. My father-in-law died of alzheimers. It is a very cruel disease. Hopefully He won’t suffer long. Hang in there.

By Netbanker

May 2, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Chuck…of course we have monopolies in this country. They are likely regulated, but we still must purchase electricity from GA Power and cable from Comcast. If you want/need either then there is only one source.

I know you’re big on capitalism, but just curious as to your take on the major increases in corporate profits and ceo compensation in relation to the wage stagnation of workers that produce the goods or services that enable the profits. That tends to be the sticking point for many.

By barbara

May 2, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone should be shot for wanting to help their fellow countryman. Help anyone you want with your money and I’ll do the same with mine. But don’t take money I earned, call it taxes and re-distribute it to everyone who for whatever reasons earns less.

By norman

May 2, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

Rita: where did you ever get the idea Christ came to give an example of non-judgmental love and service?

He came to warn about the imminent intervention of God to free Israel from Rome.

You’ve been reading the Gospels, now admit it you naughty child! I’ve told you the Gospels only tell us what people sixty years after Jesus wanted us to believe, not what he was all about.

Get rid of your bible and read some biblical scholarship.

As for the rest of you: looks my original suggestions would cost a lot less.

By Akeya

May 2, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Barbara- it’s okay to help those who are truly trying and in need. BUt when you purposely place yourself in the position to be in “poverty” I draw the line.

I have to see this every day, and I don’t mean to harp on it, but it’s sickening.

baby, baby, baby, baby, baby after baby!!!

The government may spend on one family per year 40,000.00 paying for some shiftless hussy’s food stamps (read: soda, sugar-filled cereal, hot dogs, etc), Section 8 (read: a place for them to lay around and have yet more babies and keep their houses as nasty as possible), and TANF (read: nail and hair money).

By Jack

May 2, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, you have a good point when it comes to CEO’s compensation. Can’t figure out what makes them worth it. Their money should be tied to their results. If the stockholders united it could put an end to it but they usually have allies on the board and they have most of the stock.

By Randy

May 2, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

For all of you that don’t know Norman. Let me discribe him. Remember back in school, you were one of the normal kids, playing sports, cheerleading, in the band, just hanging out with your friends and this little loser, bratty kid kept bothering you because you wouldn’t pay any attention to him if he didn’t. You would probably not even notice him, that’s NORMAN.

By norman

May 2, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

Randy: are you about to apply for childcare?
I know you don’t really care for children -=- suffer the little children, and all that.

By Ken

May 2, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this

So many solutions and so little time. The real question is who is responsible for implementing them? Is it the government or private individuals.

Jen - If you like social programs and don’t mind paying for them, then you should fund them out of you healthy yearly income. You have received a tax break under the current administration, have you decided to give it all to charitable organizations?

Sven - We spend 30% of our dollars on our military because we spent fifty years protecting you and the rest of the world against communism. Now we protect the rest of the world against genocide and terrorism.

Everyone else who talks about having to work two jobs, or travel to make a living, I would look in the mirror and ask the question… Are you going through this to survive or to live a particular lifestyle?

If you’re job is 400 miles away, maybe you should move to job rather than strain your family life. If you have to work several jobs to maintain your lifestyle, maybe you should change your lifestyle rather than strain your family life. For those who truly are working poor, assistance should be available to them. I would prefer to give that through private organizations than the government. I believe them to be far more efficient and effective.

One more thing…

The vast majority of religious organizations do not push anything on to the beneficiaries of their donations. That is a misperception. The ones who do are simply the only ones we hear about. I have been involved with several that people don’t even know about, because they don’t want to be known. We serve and we are thankful for that opportunity.

By Randy

May 2, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

Norman, You are not even making sense now. Go crawl back into your hole.

By Netbanker

May 2, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

Rita…well said. I noticed that none of the usual christians on here bothered to respond to my inquiry as to why our national budget doesn’t better reflect the teachings of Christ.

It seems more people here are more upset about 2% for social programs than the 19% spent on interest for the national debt that our current administration is adding to faster than it’s possible to count.

By Angie

May 2, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

I believe there’s “help” and then there’s “hand-outs”. HELP provides temporary aid and teaches you what you need to know in order to be able to provide for yourself and no longer need govt help. HAND-OUTS just provide checks each week/month without expecting anything in return (training, efforts to move ahead in life).

I know the one time in my life I was on unemployment I had to go to classes and keep a detailed record of how I was actively seeking employment. I do not know what welfare asks of the recipients. Maybe akaya or lyrazel can answer that.

I do know that there are adults and children in need of help. We are supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world. How come we argue over helping poor Americans in need? Most of you would rather pay countless billions on space travel and taking pictures of Saturn than to spend a dime helping the children in our country who will go to bed hungry!!! It’s all for one and none for all. Is this the American way folks???

By Rita

May 2, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

Kimberly-you are welcome and thank you for showing up also.

Norman-if you want to get technical, who really knows what the Bible actually says unless you have your hands on some original text AND the ability to read and understand the language(s) it was written in. If that’s the case, I’d love to attend your lecture—name the time and place.

Akaya-it’s clear you need a career change. A hard heart has no place in social services programming. Sounds like the person who needs to get “a real job” is you.

If you truly feel the love of God (and Christ) within your soul, you know when your heart is feeling heavy and hard. It may sound sappy, but it is true—when you feel love in your heart, it really has no room for hateful judgment.

By Paul

May 2, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

Simple solution, if you can not afford to have kids, then do not have them, they give away condoms and other protection at health clinics……I waited almost 8 years before my wife and I had a child, not that we could not have afforded it in the beginning, but I wanted my child to be well taken care of and to make sure we were established before bringing a child into this world. HERE IS AN IDEA, FIND A GOOD JOB, START A SAVINGS ACCOUNT, DO NOT BUY YOUR NEW ESCALADE WITH DUBS UNTIL YOU HAVE 100,000 IN SAVINGS, AND AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR A FEW YEARS AND WELL ESTABLIHED, SPIT OUT CHILDREN!!!!!!!

By Angie

May 2, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

I want to go to that class too!!!

By TH

May 2, 2005 05:35 PM | Link to this

Rita, First of all child care is affortable to those who work. I would love to stay at home with my children, but my spouse and I must work to take care of our children. I could have chosen not to take advantage of the education offered to me and every American. I could have chosen not to get married. I could also choose to have 3, 4, or 5 kids and let the government deliver, provide healthcare, feed them and me, and provide child care for them. Instead I have chosen to not be at the debt of the American people (the “Christian” thing to do). I have also chosen to “Love my neighbor as I would have them love me. I don’t expect them to pay for my children or expenses inccured because of my decision to have babies. I also don’t cheat, lie, and steal from my neighbor (welfare). Real Christians would be fair and honest. Charity is Christian. Welfare is not charitable. Government subsidized child care is another form of welfare for the poor. Until you have heard day after day from the people receiving welfare you can’t possibly comprehend how your tax money is being spent.

By F. Caudle

May 3, 2005 07:16 AM | Link to this

Sorry, but our Constitution does NOT contain anything to do with ‘child care’ for anyone, nor ‘housing’ for poor people…

Government child care, and public housing “PROGRAMS” are what is wrong with our country now, as too many folks think the government will take care of their every need. I live near public housing where they have gov. child care, yet there’s no accountability from HUD regarding community safety from drugs, litter, and sorry visitors who come there to do their illegal bizness…not to mention the shootings and murders…these programs have ruined America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strive to be smarter than a democrack!

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 08:02 AM | Link to this

Rita- A hard heart is exactly what’s needed sometimes to help people learn how to live self-sufficiently. You cannot coddle people while trying to teach them values that their parents did not instill in them.

My career is not what needs to change. The system and its policies need to change. When you have to work around the lies and deception all day, then you can debate. Until then, leave the social work to those of us who truly care about people being self-sufficient as opposed to “just cutting checks” every month.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this

BF Caudle-

I’m a democrat and I think most of these welfare programs need to be revamped. Please don’t assume that just because someone is a democrat that they have a bleeding heart for shiftlessness and laziness.

By chuck

May 3, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this

Netbanker,

I think that companies should pay their employees whatever they choose to pay them. It is called PROPERTY RIGHTS. If they pay the CEO a bazillion dollars and he doesn’t produce, then they will get rid of him.

As for the rank and file employees, they are FREE AGENTS. If they don’t like their compensation package they can go to work somewhere else or use the skills they gained at that job to start a competing business. Then they can pay themselves whatever they want to. They can also pay their employees whatever they want to. Thousands of new companies that are currently employeeing millions of people got started in this or some similar fashion. It is the American way of life to to say “Take this job and shove it”. If you don’t like your situation CHANGE IT.

By Denise Noe

May 3, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this

There is a problem with the basic concept of welfare to “work.” Taking care of one’s children, especially babies and toddlers, IS work. A mother (or anyone else, male or female) home with an infant may be working very hard: changing many diapers, giving feedings, bathings, dressing and undressing, and (hopefully) cuddling and cooing as well. All these things constitute demanding work. Small children are also prone to getting sick and taking care of an ill child can be exhausting work. We don’t have any trouble recognizing that a mother (or father) who stays home with the young is working if the source of support is a spouse. Why are we unable to recognize the work done in the home if the source of support is the government? We don’t call mothers home with babies who are supported by husbands “husband mothers.” We call them “stay-at-home-moms.” Those on welfare are also “stay-at-home-moms.” Of course, I realize that the cynical answer to that may be that “the husband is getting laid and the taxpayer is just getting screwed” but that makes caring for the young a marital service similar to fixing a good salad or being a warm conversationalist. While the taxpayer may not have helped create the baby that a mother on welfare works to care for, the taxpayer must live with the results of how that child turns out. If, as many believe, children have an advantage if they have parental care in the early years, it behooves us as a society to make that advantage possible for our poorest children who are disadvantaged in other ways.

By Bruce

May 3, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

Denise Noe, surely you jest. I guess what you are saying is that once a man and woman decide to have a child, one of them should be able to stay at home and draw a goverment check because they made a choice to have that child? I you are going to do that for the poor then everyone shoudl be entitled to it right?

By Paul

May 3, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

Welfare has gotten out of hand, I see people with 3 - 4 children on welfare yet they still afford to drive nice cars and continue to pop out kids. When are you people going to realize that most people on welfare are gaming the system and we are paying for it. This is no way fair to us hard working people at all, I did not sign up to take care of your children, nor should I have to, if I want to support “another child”, I call Sally Struthers!!!!!!!!!

By Lyrazel

May 3, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

All day yesterday I was hideously embarrassed by my post for its lack of compassion. So I promise to not degrade further some of the people who need help the most—and there really are many. My apologies—I dont really hate so much…

One Solution to single parent daycare woes:

Single moms—get together!—and start planning a daycare that you and women like you—staff. You know what your prerequisites are—I am sure you could find many who share the same concerns as far as child safety, nurturing, etc. I think your own volunteering would help your kids, neighbors kids and by volunteering you get a big broad discount on steady and reliable daycare. You work 8 hours/ yes but maybe Ms Norplant is on a different schedule and can come in 8 hours—if you pick up the Saturday shift—your kids see a group of friends they can grow and play with safely! Why must creative, independent people be so committed to raising children in isolation as daycare supercenters provide? Is it just a lack of imagination or has the stifiling experience being raised in daycare limited these moms understanding alternative solutions?

When I was young I knew all my neighbors—knew all their kids and we played together—outside. When my mother had to be busy—we were sent to a neighbor—and likewise mom fed some neighbor kids supper because their parents were out/workin/whatever. Now I see these big manicured yards, two cars in the drive—but nobody is playing outside—and they dont know who their neighbors are. Maybe for the sake of solutions to day care the old-reliable neighborhood women might be a better solution than government sani-centers where kids are dumped off with strangers.

My little nephew can play 8 hours on his x-box but he has never built a fort—sad, isnt it? He is sixteen now—and will never build one…modern kids miss so much since parents let them get wired-so early. I read somewhere Bill Gates doesnt let his kid use the computer—just read books and play—no matter how rich you are—things—do not replace a parents attention as far as kids are concerned.

By Jamie

May 3, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

Part of the problem is that the working single parents that really need help cannot get help! And the people that keep laying down and making more babies get more and more help, making this a life style for them. Before I met my husband, I was a single parent. I lived on my own and was going to college, but the government told me that first of all, I made too much money to get child care assistance, and I was only making 10.00 and hour at the time. Secondly, they did not like my choice of day care providers…….What gets me is that they are willing to pay for a child to go to a state approved public day care that could not possibly provide the care for my child that a private, licensed, christian day care could. And on top of that, they would rather pay the 125.00 weekly verses the 80.00. But like I said, when I finally got in to see someone for child care assistance, they were lowering the income rates and I would not qualify. Also FYI-to apply for child support “through the system”, I was told would take anywhere from nine months to a year to even get to my case……….And just so you know, miracles do happen………I was on birth control when I got pregnant, and was told by a specialist that I would most likely never have children due to a medical condition………So just because you have a child out of wedlock doesn’t make you trash. My daughter was the best thing that ever happened to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Jack

May 3, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Denise is crazy. Sorry. The man is getting laid and WE are getting screwed.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

Jamie is correct. Many who need assistance don’t know how to “work” the system and therefore don’t get any.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

Jamie… glad you are happy with your daughter and that she was a miracle… good to see someone who truly loves their child… but I still shouldn’t have to put your child through daycare… that is your responsibility… I have my own bills to pay

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Denise Noe- women should be stay-at-hone moms at their own expense. Being a stay-at-home mom because you truly want to surround yourself with your child 24 hours per day and don’t believe in daycares is completely different from being a stay-at-home mom whose only interest is to suck the government dry.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 3, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

Rocky, as usual, you offer the same tired response whenever anyone talks about national health care in this country. Canada’s system is not perfect, but a simple trip to the doctor for antibiotic doesn’t cost $130, either. People fall through the cracks everyday in our country because the can’t afford a single doctor’s office visit for a routine matter. If Americans are so great at everything, why can’t we come up with a sustainable health care system? Our current system is in crisis, but unless it’s acknowledged by the president and congress they’re not likely to look at the big picture and work toward a solution. Say what you will about the Clintons, but at least they tried before they were waylaid by Ken Starr and Newt Gingrich.

I have yet to get a satisfactory response to the question of why it is seen as a bad thing for the government to invest in the health of its citizenry. I have insurance, and I’m still getting threatening letters from the physician who performed my surgery because the insurance company has not paid him from 3-1/2 years ago.

Ken, this is the lifestyle I’m supporting; the audacity for my son and I to have needed surgery in the same year, with a health insurance company who refused to tell me what they would cover until the day after the surgery. Our family went into debt paying the out of pocket portions, and have taken drastic measures (working 400 miles away from home) to get out of debt without going bankrupt. It’s as personally responsible as I can be, since our need for the surgeries was beyond our control. You can’t sue the PPO or HMO. Can you call this a working system if one (or two) nonlife-threatening but necessary medical procedures can put you into financial ruin?

Incidentally, I had my chance to go to Canada to live, but decided to stay here and make some noise about how this administration is flushing the country, particularly the lower and middle classes, down the toilet in order to feed its war machine.

And Chuck, sorry to say, if my brain is rotted, it’s not from CNN. I don’t have and can’t afford cable TV. I watch a far more subversive news source like PBS and I read the New York Times, and Newsweek. Your point about news sources is heard, though; too bad so many are owned by the same sources and by the likes of Rupert Murdoch.

Regarding the armor issue, the NY Times ran a “searing” story on this by Michael Moss. www.nytimes.com/2005/04/25/international/middleeast/25marines.

” In returning home, the leaders and Marine infantrymen have chosen to break an institutional code of silence and tell their story, one they say was punctuated not only by a lack of armor, but also by a shortage of men and planning that further hampered their efforts in battle, destroyed morale and ruined the careers of some of their fiercest warriors.” “Lt. Sean J. Schickel remembers Captain Royer asking a high-ranking Marine Corps visitor whether the company would be getting more factory-armored Humvees. The official said they had not been requested and that there were production constraints, Lieutenant Schickel said. Recalls Captain Royer: “I’m thinking we have our most precious resource engaged in combat, and certainly the wealth of our nation can provide young, selfless men with what they need to accomplish their mission. That’s an erudite way of putting it. I have a much more guttural response that I won’t give you.” Captain Royer was later relieved of command. “

No, I don’t know any soldiers, not well enough to speak to about these sensitive issues. I’m glad your friends have the armor they need. Please tell them I am praying for peace and hope they come home safely. I’m sure they’ll come home changed, and I hope they are not bound by any code of silence.

Incidentally, today’s NYT has an article about how recruiters are “bending the rules” to meet their quotas. Just about 5 years ago my brother-in-law had a hard time getting into the Navy because they told him he was too old at 27. His shipmates called him Methusala. He served immediately after 911 and is home safe, for which we are grateful.

Namaste.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel- some of the single mothers that I know I would never let care for my child. I don’t give my son candy and sodas, I don’t allow him to play with toy guns, and he is not allowed to just run around wherever he wants and whenever he wants. Most of the single mothers that I know do all of the above and more that I find unacceptable.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

Akeya… you ever need a baby sitter you just look me up :) I LOVE kids!! and have had plenty of experience… I have 3 youngers sister a younger brother and a nephew

By E. Lewis

May 3, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

My sister and her husband both come from middle class backgrounds, make a decent living and have one child who was born years after they got married. You would think they would do a great job of raising their only child, but let me tell you one thing. If it wasn’t for the rest of the family, they would all be in a world of hurt. Combined we provide child care, transportation, clothing, food, school tuition, etc, etc, and the parents still can’t seem to make end meet. I’ve known many single parents, and some lower income, who are doing a much better job with their children.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

Sandy, most things the govt. controls would be better if controled by the private sector. Look at the TSA for example. Grandma can’t have fingernail clippers on the airplane, it just isn’t safe.

By E. Lewis

May 3, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

Do we pay now or pay more later?

The big picture must be considered. I don’t like paying for other people’s children any more than anyone else, but if I can pay a few extra $$$ now to keep them fed, thereby avoiding health problems that will send them to a public hospital at taxpayers expense, and educated, thus avoiding dropping out and ending up in the criminal justice system which is far more costly than daycare, then I am all for it.

By Jen

May 3, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Ken,

While my income is healthy it’s no way enough to start my own charitable organizations…like people like Keith Brooking and Warrick Dunn have done. Gee, maybe if I make millions it would be possible……

However, we do donate money to several charities. My husband is the child of a teenage unwed mother (they managed to rise out of it, but for most of his life they just survived) so that’s one thing we’re active in contributing to. Also, we donate to Disabled Vets and St Jude’s.

But thanks for the suggestion because, liberal that I am, I had never thought of it….right.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Tim- I actually am looking into getting a part time job for about 3 months so that I can save some extra money for our vacation. You may be asking for more than you really want! lol

See, instead of begging from the gov I get a part time job to do what I need to do for my family. That concept is foreign to about 70% of my caseload.

By Ken

May 3, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

Sandy/Sanhan…

Of course it is in the best interest of the entire country to invest in our nation’s healthcare. However, that goes beyond having a healthcare system run by the national or state government bodies.

First and foremost, there should be personal responsibility for how an individual lives. If the government provides healthcare, will they also tell us what we can eat, drink and legally abuse? Why should the government fork over thousands of dollars for healthcare for people who knowingly smoke, drink and partake of unhealthy diets when it is common knowledge that these things adversly affect your health (though some will disagree on the extent). The beauty of this country is that we can do as we please when we please. The more the government intervenes, the more the government controls and that is NEVER a good thing.

Of course the healthcare system has issues. What healthcare system doesn’t? All of our social institutions have issues. Which ones don’t, here or anywhere? National healthcare has issues. Private healthcare has issues. They may not be the same but they are issues just the same. Will any ever meet perfection in the eyes of all? Probably not. It just seems that your concerns are better addressed through a national healthcare system. Others are better addressed through private.

By Stefanie Dye

May 3, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

What both of these women falsely assume is that all single moms are poor and uneducated. I know I’m not the only single mom with a Master’s degree who stayed at home with my kids for years when I was a married mom. But what happens is that transitioning back to paid employment takes far longer than most people expect. Even though I contracted part-time to keep my skills up, I’m under-employed and underpaid based on my works skills, education and experience. It seems that many of the “dislocated hommaker” programs that existed in the 1960’s and 1970’s are gone. There’s no support or guidance that I could find to help me plan for a successful transition. People need to understand that there are as many reasons for single motherhood as there are single mothers. And don’t forget the growing number of custodial single dads out there either!

By rocky

May 3, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Denise Noe - you are in LA LA Land. I don’t work hard every day so that I can pay for a single mother to stay home with her children. My own WIFE and I can’t afford for one of us to stay home with our children, so why in the HELL would I pay for someone else to do so? That is a luxury that nobody is “entitled” to, LEAST of all someone on public assistance! I love hearing people say “the government pays for this and that”. No, it doesn’t. WE, the TAXPAYERS and productive people in this society, pay for this and that.

Sandy/Sanhan - I can’t even express how unsurprised I am that you quote articles in the NYT to prove your leftist and socialist views. Go ahead and tell me how impartial Michael Moore is in his films while you’re at it. Thank you for proving my point that you are nothing but an America hater who thinks we’d be better off as a weak country instead of the world Super Power. Yes, the Clintons tried to implement a socialized healthcare model, and they were shot down. Rightly so. This is not a socialist country, and it sounds like you would be better off moving to one rather than staying to “sound off” about our president and his noble effort to keep our country strong, large and in charge. Take your whining and complaining and join Sven in his socialized country where you can both wallow in your America hating emotions.

By E. Lewis

May 3, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

I would rather publicly fund daycare centers than prisons.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Akeya… hahaha… I may have gotten more than what I bargained for lol… but my services are not free for that long lol :)

good for you though!! when you do go on vacation I hope you have a WONDERFUL time!

By Jack

May 3, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Those mothers who are on public assistance with no intention of getting work should be sterilized.

By Denise Noe

May 3, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

To Bruce, who suggest I “jest” when I say society should make it possible for its poor children to be cared for by a stay-at-home-mom (or dad), I don’t meant to suggest that every family should have a stay-at-home-parent, that moms should be pressured to stay home, or that some kids are better off in day care. What I am saying is that there are many people who believe parent care is best for very young children. Dr. Laura perpetually harps on this. A study showed higher rates of aggression among children in day care than those at home (although there was no difference in 83% of the children). However, IF one accepts that babies and toddlers MIGHT be better off with a stay-at-home-mom (or dad), we should make this option available to every family, especially poor families, because their children are disadvantaged in so many ways and should not be disadvantaged by being in non-parent care (assuming again, that day care is not as good as parent care). I don’t criticize families who prefer to put their babies in day care or other non-parental care.

By norman

May 3, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

The Christian Right believes that dare care centers are anti-god and socialistic attempts of the government to take the care of children away from parents. They also believe that women should stay home and not work. I am surprised none of you have mentioned this. Just read James Dobson and his ilk. My sister in law learned to hit her kids with large wooden spoons from Dobson. Both those kids are now pretty looney, but not as looney at their mother and father.

By Anonymous

May 3, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

For those who wanted to hear the lecture(s) on what Jesus really said (from yesterday afternoon), here is where to go…

http://www.teach12.com/store/course.asp?id=643&d=Historical+Jesus

http://www.teach12.com/store/course.asp?id=656&d=New+Testament

Much better than Atlanta radio too.

By Stefanie

May 3, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

I think it’s unfair to categories families as “single parent”, “stay at home parent” “working parents.” It’s too symplistic for the unique arrangements out there in the world. I’ve been all of the above and various shades of gray inbetween. Point is families (people) do what they have to do to make it. I don’t have time to be concerned with other people’s opinion of how I’ve conducted my life and parenting with thier uninformed assumptions. I could not expect to continue to stay at home with my kids after my divorce. I had to do what was best for my family. When my mom became a single mom (she was widowed)she was able to stay at home with us preschoolers only because she had life insurance money to live on for a while. If she had to go back to work though, she would have. People shouldn’t expect anyone to bail them out. But I do wish there was more compassion out there for those less fortunate. Offer help instead of criticism.

By Ken

May 3, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

Jen…

I applaude the donations you have made and the work you have done. In my mind your contributions carry the same significance as those of Keith Brooking or Warrick Dunn. I make the same comments about someone who makes your salary. It’s all relative. The amount of money you make does not matter b/c there will always be someone who makes more than you. Every bit helps when confronting the various issues in our world.

I believe that more people would be solved if this was how we tried to address these issues. Private organizations do much more for the needs of our society than anything the government could do. People, especially Americans, do not like being told they must do something. They are much more likely to contribute or participate when it is voluntary. They get involved with soemthing that means something to them. They give and work with more passion.

By the way, I don’t think you answered the original question… Did you donate your entire taxbreak to charitable organizations?

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Denise- You realize that you have lost all credibility by even mentioning Dr. Laura’s name? So what, just because someone doesn’t have the right DNA they can’t care for children and be loving. That’s completely absurd.

And when we’re talking about “poor” families, are we talking about those that are actually trying to work and care for their families, or those whose intent is to have children and expect the government to provide more food stamps, more rooms in their 2003-2004 built houses, condos, and townhomes (on which they pay no rent and destroy in 1 years times damages worth 3000.00 + only to be able to move on to another new house to destroy that one) etc…

By Jen

May 3, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Ken, sorry, I don’t get anything in my tax returns. I’ve got it balanced so that I don’t owe and I am not owed.

Unfortunately, while private donation is great, most Americans are middle income, making between 20K and 60K a year. With our corporate happy government most American citizens are struggling to live within their means and don’t have extra to give away. And I know they’d like to. They usually do what they can, give clothes to Goodwill, drop change in the jars at the grocery. I do those things, too.

I maintain that most Americans don’t want to be handed everything. My husband grew up in abject poverty and he still believes this. I think some of the people we’ve heard from on this, those who work in social services, are a bit soured. But they’re opinion will be biased by the phenomena that they’re exposed only to the abusers. The non-abusers aren’t parked in the social services offices….

If it weren’t for social programs my mother-in-law would have never been able to pull herself out of the gutter (in the 70s, if you got pregnant as a teenager, they denied you your high school diploma..they kicked you out of school…). If it weren’t for social programs my husband never would have received free childcare so his mother could go to work at two minimum wage paying jobs. If it weren’t for social programs she never would have been able to buy a house in a low-income neighborhood. If it weren’t for social programs my husband never would have gone to college, never would have gone to grad school, and never would have become the professional he is today. And his mother would never have eventually gotten her GED, gone to college, and become an accountant.

And you know what? They’re as many people who’ve benefitted from the welfare system as who abuse it. Akeya, you don’t get to see those by the nature of your work, from what I can tell, and that’s unfortunate because you don’t get to see the fruits of you labor. Well, consider my husband the frutis of your labor, no matter your age or where you’re from.

By Jimpa

May 3, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

This is an excellent opportunity for the government to make a difference. The reality today is most kids spend the majority of their time being raised by low paid workers while their parents are off paying for a new SUV. How much time does a child actually spend with a parent. Studies would say less than 1-2 hours a week of quality time. I guess if you include watching TV and Video games it goes up significantly. I think our taxes should be used to develop standardized gov’t daycare solutions that help give our kids a start with top quality professional watching over them who can meet their daily needs. Even if there was a tax increase it would be offset by not having to pay out monthly darecare expenses. I confident with the added attention our kids would need less ridlin and have better educations overall. We did this same thing years back with our school systems. Why not do the same with daycare? We can help give everyone (both parents and children) the best of both worlds.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Jen- We have so many clients with beaucoups of potential, but they get lost in the muck created by those who are being fraudulent. It makes me so mad!!

By Jack

May 3, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

It is quite amusing listening to people talk about how government can do a better job than the private sector. They really don’t have a clue.

By stefanie dye

May 3, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

I’m starting to feel personally attacked. I’m a single mom who works for the government and has a child on Ritalin. Just don’t look at the 666 tattooed on my forehead. Look, I hear a lot of judgment from people who have no real experience in what they are talking about. The government does a better job when the goal isn’t efficiency. The private sector does a better job when protecting individuals isn’t a factor. IMHO…not a fact.

If you had a child with an inherited condition like diabetes would you refuse to give him insulin. “We can treat this with diet and excercise.” Would you refuse to give your child glasses if she was nearsighted? My son is in danger of hurting himself or other people if he is unmedicated. And I have a responsibility to protect him. I also have to consider his self esteem and the fact that he doesn’t want to be “bad” or “mean” like the other kids have said (his words). Quit mouthing off and do something to help!

By Bruce

May 3, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

Denise Noe,

NO I am in enough pain paying for those that do not wish a hand up to pay for everyone that wants to stay home.

Wait - I love to fish, given your plan I would gladly become a stay-at-home-dad and I could even take my kids fishing with me EVERYDAY. Think of it I could get paid to go fishing and bond with my kids. Maybe you are on to something there:-)

How about it guys, anyone willing to pay for my fishing trips?

By Ken

May 3, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

Jen…

You and I both agree that social programs are wonderful ways to help those who truly need it. We simply differ on who should provide it.

My experience is that private organizations (food banks, shelters, tutoring, etc.) provide more service for less money than the government could ever dream. Why… b/c the overhead and red tape is significantly reduced. This goes back to the idea of passion. People who are truly touched by a particular issue are much more likely to help and care than simply provide a service. They will go the extra mile to right wrongs and address injustice.

If our society could in some fashion get the monies levied by the government for social programs into the hands of more efficient, better run private organizations, I think the people who need this assistance would be much better off.

By Jen

May 3, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Akeya,

I am so sorry you don’t get to see the success stories! But, at least you know of one. And I know of others. I grew up in privilege. It wasn’t until I met my husband and mother-in-law that my eyes were opened to both sides. You’d be amazed at how many people are like him. They don’t go around with it on their foreheads, don’t bring it up until they meet someone else like them. So, as a child of privilege I never met these people. But once I began a relationship with my husband I was meeting them all the time.

I wish we’d here more about the successes in Congress, in the media, etc, than we do about the abuse. No one wants to give money if they think it’s not working….and I fear that’s the impression people are getting….

By Jack

May 3, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

“The government does a better job when the goal isn’t efficiency.” Enough said.

By lozen

May 3, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

Why are we back on the welfare queen topic anyway? The question is, should the government (the american tax payer) subsidize childcare for poor, working, single parents. I say yes. I am willing for my money to do that. I think that helps all of us in the long run. I don’t want to pay defense contractors billions of dollars, but I’m forced to whether I want to or not!

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Jimpa-

I am a 28 year old single parent of a 2 year old. I work 40 hours per week, which means that my son is in daycare for about 9-10 hours per day, M-F. I also work in my church daycareon Sunday mornings.

My son is bilingual. We read 2 books the first 15 min when we arrive home in the evenings and 4 more at bedtime. He goes to bed every night at 9:00 p.m. He gets a healthy, homecooked meal EVERY DAY. He is not allowed to eat junk food or sodas and we spend plenty of time outside.

He can count to 30 in 2 languages and knows his colors in 2 languages. I taught him those things. Not the daycare. He went into the daycare when he was just about 2, knowing how to spell his first and last name. I taught him those things. Not the daycare. He can tell you his birthday, how old he will be on his birthday, and also tell you my full name as well his grandmother’s. He knows his phone number also. I taught him those things, and we only spend a few hours together Monday thru Friday. It is up to the parents to give their kids a good foundation. I send my child to a daycare that I can afford (although they don’t have the learning resources that I prefer) rest assured that what my son learns at home is reinforced in the daycare, not vice versa.

I don’t want subsidized cc. I want to be able to donate more money to the wages and the daycare center itself to insure that ALL of the children in the daycare have good opportunities.

By Crystal

May 3, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Akeya, you make a good point: what kind of “poor” families are we talking about? Most people feel good about helping those who are really trying. But those trying are mixed in with the “deadbeats” and both have innocent children. What are your suggestions for a fair and helpful system? You have the actual experience. I don’t, except for helping with homeless and hungry families in emergencies, through our church. Seems to me that your input is more relevant than those who just “want” to help.

By stefanie dye

May 3, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

But the goal isn’t always efficiency and shouldn’t be. That’s what separates govt. from business in most cases. For instance, I don’t want my basic needs like water, fire and police protection or even roads controlled by the private sector. I want to be protected.

I happen to work in a part of govt. where efficiency is a goal to strive for because we deal with business on a daily basis. It’s still a bureaucratic nightmare. But as far as social programs go, I think protecting individuals is a public good. Hitler, Stalin and Musellini were efficient. (well maybe not Stalin so much)

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Lozen- maybe if we get rid of some of the funds going to welfare queens (and their hidden kings) we would have more money to subsidize childcare for poor, working, single parents.

By stefanie dye

May 3, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

I’d rather my taxes go to pay for child care for poor families than backdoor corporate welfare through government contracts with inflated prices to companies like Bechtel. I’d rather see more money available for children to eat and get dental care than for wars where children are being maimed and killed. Children can’t help what kinds of people are raising them.

By lozen

May 3, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

Rocky, mean people suck. Yes, I do mean you! Sandy hasn’t said anything that makes me think she hates America. There are plenty of people here who disagree with the way this country is being run. That does not make them America haters. Sandy is saying what she thinks just as you are. I think you should stop whining about where your tax money goes and move to Saudi Arabia where nobody can disagree with the government and where you might be more comfortable!

By Jimpa

May 3, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this

Stephanie,

I did not mean that as an attack on anyone! It’s just a fact that our kids are suffering from the lack of attention by parents because they are off working. I’m just saying that is reality. Does anyone think an hour or two a week of quality time is enough? Well that is what our children are getting. We have to act. This is both an upper, middle and lower class problem. The we could have a world class daycare system in the State of Ga that would attract businesses, career oriented families and allow poor families increased opportunities. Along with this our children would finally get the attention they require (I do think this is a parents place, but the reality is the parents are not doing it).

By Ken

May 3, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

Can folks clarify what they mean by efficient? In this case efficieny should mean that the maximum amount of resources (usually dollars) are getting to the necessary parties rather than through organizational red tape.

Please don’t make “efficient” a nasty word because it isn’t. We are working with a limited amount of resources and we need to stretch them as far as humanly possible.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

Crystal-

Earlier I suggested volunteer programs. Lyrazel also suggested that there should be classes on childcare, parenting, etc. People whine about how much manpower it takes to work these programs, but we’re talking about job creation! There are plenty of professionals out there looking for jobs.

If people are going to take from the system they should HAVE TO GIVE BACK! And not by just providing the next crop of entries into the army.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

This should be the socialist blog. Lets just have the govt. provide everything, that way nobody will have any responsiblity and we can all have fun.

By Jimpa

May 3, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Akeya,

It sounds like you are doing excellent job, but I think you would agree you are the exception and not the rule. Ask any public school teacher. The majority of kids can’t count to ten when they are five, but they can play video games or tell you about the latest TV hit. These are the kids we need to use our taxes to reach out and help. It’s not just the lower class!

By stefanie dye

May 3, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

And I suppose private sector efficiency is ordering extra lunches so that you can bill the client for them. Oh maybe the cable company keeping me on hold for 45 minutes is private sector efficiency. Oh wait, maybe it’s cooking the books to look more profitable for stockholders then cooking them again to look less profitable for the IRS. No, then again I think private sector efficiency is making sure that panty hose and razor blades will wear out so that we will buy, buy, buy. And small appliances that can’t be repaired…got to put them at a price point that ensures people with throw away that 2 yr old iron and buy a new one. From what I see, the private sector is about promoting sales. Wasteful consumerism and disregard for public resources/public good.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

Jimpa- I cannot agree with you more. Most of my clients are home all day long with their children and are not teaching them anything!! It really angers me because as is mentioned by others, children cannot help by who they are raised.

By Jimpa

May 3, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Akeya,

Your right that does sadly happen, but that is not typically the case. Most parents do not stay at home. Matter of fact very few can or chose to do so.

By Crystal

May 3, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Akeya.

Guess I am thinking about specifics here. Volunteer programs to be run by whom? Would new jobs in a new creation be paid by government? Business? Universities? What safeguards to avoid “cheats” does the government have at this time? Do we need more? Are computer systems used to track welfare recipients? Who would teach and support good family practices?

Surely someone is working and researching all this. I just don’t know the answers.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Crystal- there will always be cheating in these systems. The purpose is to get people to give back to the system that they are taking from.

Our government spends gobs of money on ridiculous projects. It’s time for that money to be redirected. The money could be used to staff personnel who will monitor volunteer programs, teach classes, and other requirements under a newer system with more integrity.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 3, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Um, Rocky, are you channeling Zell Miller or something. (Anyone see SNL with the “America-hatin’ tsunamies”?

Why is it un-American to want to make life better for more Americans? Or is it my refusal to embrace the facade of America being a benevolent superpower while sacrificing the constitution, civil liberties, and human rights here and abroad that has you so vexed? My conscience and my intelligence are not designed to devolve to that level of thinking.

As for my taste in news, at least I read, think, and analyze. If the fact that Michael Moore and I exercise our right to free speech bothers you, how do you justify calling anyone un-American?

Would you like to share with the class your favorite news sources?

Ken—I won’t use “efficiency” as a derogatory term if you don’t use “liberal” as a derogatory term. Deal?

Lozen-Thanks for watching my back.

By Bruce

May 3, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

The government does not want to fix the problems with the social programs they oversee. If they fix them it would be cutting their own throats. They would lose control over those that are dependant on the programs for their day to day living. Yes- there are exceptions, we have read a few here today, but for the most part if government made welfare to work programs truly work they would lose control.

Blaming the current administration for this problem is not fair. These problems were created while the liberials had control of all three branches of our government. Now we are beginning to realize just how out of control they are and need to blame someone.

By kimberly

May 3, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

Sandy/Sanhan, You’re wasting your breath with the “Zell Brigade.” They enjoy their ornery view of life. Your facts and reasoning are sound. This country was founded on freedom of expression, and on the right to complain about the government and work to change the injustices therein. But these folks will call you UNAmerican any time you disagree with them. As to Michael Moore, haha… FUNNY how no one in the administration has sued him for libel. You see, TRUTH is a legal defense against libel. He may have been one-sided, but the facts are the facts are the facts. They’re not disputing those, because they CAN’T! But name calling: yep. They learned that in kindie-garden, and still do it quite well.

By Ed

May 3, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

If you breed em, you should feed em. Don’t ask the taxpayers for assistance because you don’t have your act together.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

If there is someone I like more than Michael Moore its Barbara Streisand.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Either they shut the site down or the socialists are out to lunch.

By Paul

May 3, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

What makes anyone think that the government would be able to help???? The seniors are now suffering from a “SOCIAL SECURITY” plan they donated to their whole lives!!!! It is not my responsibility to pay for YOUR KIDS! I have a 3 year daughter old myself, I am in the military, single parent now, and 30 years old! My daughter does not want for anything. She is well taken care of. I am tired of hearing about help for the “MOMS”. Here is an idea, keep your legs closed, get a job, save some money, then have kids that YOU can afford!

By Ken

May 3, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

Sandy/Sahan…

You have a deal, but, I don’t think I ever spoke of “liberal” in a negative light. In fact, I rarely ever speak of liberal or conservative period and I don’t believe I have in this particular forum. You and Jen made nearly two thirds of the “liberal” references in this forum.

I truly believe that nearly, not all but nearly, all folks (left, right and everywhere in between) want to solve the issues this country faces. They simply go about it using different trains of thought. I would like to see government reduced. Others want to proliferate it. We have something in the middle. Sounds like a comprimise.

By rocky

May 3, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

Actually, I don’t watch TV news at all, and get ALL my news from reading. I read many, many sites on the Internet to get a variety of angles: CNN, FoxNews, Drudge, DemocraticUnderground (where the most hateful and vile of the lefties spew their poison), Townhall, Reuters, NewsMax, and WSJ are my most commonly visited.

I do feel it is un-American to want this country to relenquish the status of World Super Power, because that is who we are. We aren’t appeasers like the Euro-weenies and we don’t have the same kind of socialist or communist views that many of the European countries do. It doesn’t seem to make any difference to you that we are liberating an entire country from the tyranny that they have lived under for the last 5 decades, and all we hear is moaning and bi*ching about the “war machine” because we are spending money on helping these people instead of socializing healthcare here. Please give me some examples of how the constitution, civil liberties and human rights here have been sacrificed.

I have absolutely no problem with Moore’s right to free speech. I do, however, have a problem with him making a movie full of lies and then labeling it as a “documentary”. It’s complete horsesh*t. He stated that there is no terrorist threat. Do you also believe that? Did we just imagine the planes that flew into the WTC? I guess so.

It is people like him and the other America haters like Ward Churchill who keep this country polarized, rather than united as we should be. We finally have a president in office who is willing to protect us and take the fight against terrorists to their OWN backyard and away from ours, and all he gets from the left is grief and accusations of war for oil and that kind of nonsense. Yes, there are other countries besides Iraq that are harboring terrorists, or are actually RUN by them like Iran and N. Korea, and those are going to need to be addressed. But he has been able to prevent another attack here from happening for the last four years and that is a direct result of taking their war to their own land. I’m just sick and tired of the constant whining and obstruction and conspiracy theories that stream non-stop from the Left. Being opposed to everything America is about, and wishing for America to become all those things it is not (socialist) is, to me, very un-American. Either you love our country for what it is, or you don’t love our country. It’s that simple.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Rock, Did you catch the guy on this blog a week or 2 ago that thought the plane hitting the pentagon was a fabrication? Unreal how stupid and gullible some people are.

By Rita

May 3, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Akeya, Just have to respond to your earlier post. We are more alike than different.

I am also a single mom. Received no subsidies for some rather expensive childcare (especially infant and toddler care), receive the occasional child support check, enjoy parenting a wonderful, bright, artistically-inclined, happy, healthy young man.

I too believe in “tough-love” and I have seen the abuses, but I have also seen the successes. Young mothers, who without the childcare subsidy, would not have been able to both work and attend a post-secondary institution. Women who are now productive engineers, scientists, lawyers, teachers, social workers and yes, daycare providers with healthy, happy, educated, well-mannered children. Many are homeowners, some are business owners. Hey, I bet some are even Republicans.

I too have worked in a wide-variety of social service providing agencies and while reform is necessary, not to the extent where it reduces benefits to the people who qualify for it.

I seen just as many “system abusing women” from wealthy households (see: Jennifer Wilbanks). I’ve mentored some young women whose ignorance about the basic realities of life made me pull my hair out (it grew back). But I found that patience, mentoring and love usually helped both of us to overcome the barriers to helping those young women reach a successful outcome. I’ve not only worked with young women, I’ve also worked with young men. Angry, bitter, frustrated young men in an effort to help them too become more positive and develop their unique gifts and talents. To become better fathers to these children, better partners to these women. I still reach communication from many of these young people and their positivity definitely feeds the host.

I guess my long diatribe is an effort to turn your negativity into something more positive, Akeya. You are on the front lines. Your grandma wasn’t joking when she said you attract more flies with honey/sugar than vinegar. You save more lost souls that way too. If you love your job and want to effect a change, you got to change your attitude and open your heart. Don’t be so judgmental, maybe those young women just haven’t met the right positive person to plant that seed of change. God bless you and your son.

By rocky

May 3, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

I sure did, Jack. He also probably thinks the moon landing was filmed in Arizona or New Mexico. It takes a “special” kind of person (as in short-bus special) to have that kind of combination of stupidity and denial.

By Ed

May 3, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

I must be in the wrong forum. I thought this discussion was ‘Should the government pay for childcare for the poor, or do other solutions exist’. BTW, good post Paul! Paul is in the military,and he is making excellant points without screaming about political views.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Rocky… there are plenty of people on both sides (not just the left) that keep this country from being united… one of the main people on the right is good ol DUMBYA himself… there are many republicans I could support… he certainly is not one of them… when he starts talking about this so-called ‘politcal capital’ (which he certinaly does not have) he is going to spend that isn’t going to get his opponets to start lining up behind him

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 3, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

Ken-cool. I agree that there’s middle ground but every time I bring up this issue, (albeit it’s personal because I have so much medical debt), people start screaming that it’s un-American to want quality health care at a reasonable cost. Same with day care. If a national health care plan is not the answer, and the private sector is not stepping up, then what else can we do besides not get sick? I believe as Americans we can come up with an innovative system, but all I hear is that you can’t trust the governement. When I say it, I’m un-American and a socialist, but when others say they don’t trust the government to do this, they’re capitalists. If I knew what the solution was, I sure wouldn’t be doing my current job of medical transcription for a living.

On some level it’s absurd to have to rely on employment to receive health care benefits that you must pay into, but have no choice about which plan your company uses. Where’s the freedom in that? If small businesses could free up their health care benefits money, they could expand into greater markets and productivity. If part-time jobs carried full time benefits, people could have the best of working and caring for their families, strengthening families and society, especially as care becomes multigenerational.

Paul, so you of all people, a single parent, should know how difficult and challenging parenting is. Why assume others are in the same situation because of lack of moral fiber? It’s great that you can do it all alone (or do you have a network of help?), but there may come a time when you can’t, through no fault of yours. But there are plenty of people who posted here today who are doing fine jobs as well, or at least doing the best they can, which is ultimately a hopeful thing. Sometimes issues don’t occur until after children are born, so keeping your legs shut or keeping it in your pants is a moot point then. But what kind of security do any of us have if one illness can ruin you financially?

By the way you posted, it sounds like you want some special recognition for doing your job as you described it, as though being a DAD and stepping up is to the plate is out of the ordinary. Parenting is difficult in any circumstances, and criticism can cut folks down in lots of negative ways. I’m inclined toward understanding and compassion, since that’s what I hope for in return.

By lozen

May 3, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

Bush Plan Could ‘Sunset’ Any Federal Agency Tucked away in the 2,000-page budget plan passed last week by both houses of Congress are three short sentences that could eliminate every federal program that protects public health, the environment, investors, worker’s rights and many more. As described by journalist Osha Gray Davidson in the April 21st Rolling Stone, a proposed “Sunset Commission” could enable the president to eliminate any agency he dislikes — leaving the American people at the mercy of big business. The driving force behind the Sunset Commission is President Bush’s four-year Yale roommate and close friend, Clay Johnson. As governor of Texas, Bush put Johnson in charge of all state appointments. With this authority, Johnson promptly removed all three members of the state environmental protection commission and replaced them with a former Monsanto executive, an official with the Texas Beef Council and a lawyer for the oil industry. Now, as deputy director for management at the Office of Management and Budget, Johnson has implemented a system to evaluate federal programs and cut funding to those “not getting results.” This year’s budget however, gets rid of 20% of the programs actually rated most effective (involving environment and education) — and increases funding for programs rated lowest (such as an effort to reduce the number of poor people claiming a low-income tax credit). With the votes of just five of its eight members, the Sunset Commission could enable the president to eliminate entire programs that protect citizens from injury and death, such as the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the National Traffic Safety Administration, and the Environmental Protection Agency. The origins of the Sunset Commission idea go back to Wendy Gramm, the wife of former Texas Senator Phil Gramm. As a senior official in the Reagan administration, Gramm teamed with executives of the Enron corporation to enact a measure exempting from regulation companies that trade in energy derivatives. Gramm then resigned her post and accepted a seat on the Enron board of directors, where she was paid $1.85 million. How much Enron enjoyed Gramm’s legacy is now history. While the White House appears understandably confident about gaining Congressional approval for its Sunset Commission, at least one member is sounding the alarm. “Under the administration’s proposal, Congress would relinquish its constitutional power to legislate,” said Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA). “Power would be consolidated in the executive branch and the legislative role would be emasculated.”

By rocky

May 3, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

You must be new to this blog, Ed. We’ve NEVER stayed on topic for more than a few hours on the first day it’s posted. But please feel free to spout any political diatribes you wish to expell.

I can respect your point of view, Tim. There are definitely some on the left that I respect and would have even considered voting for if they weren’t up against a Republican I liked. What scares me about the people on the left is that they were willing to vote for a douche like Kerry, just because he wasn’t Bush. These ABB people are the most dangerous to our country, because they are so blinded by hatred and resentment for him that they were willing to replace him with someone who was obviously not a leader, some would even argue that he is a traitor, and he would never have been able to protect our country from the threats we face today. He would have been more concerned with appeasing the U.N. than putting the welfare of his own country first. Of all the liberals I know (and my sister is a HUGE liberal), I asked them at election time if they were voting for Kerry because they liked him or because they hated Bush. It was overwhelmingly because they hated Bush, and that just scares me. It showed me how angry they really are, and how unable to see through that hatred and anger they were, even if it meant the detriment of our country.

By Denise Noe

May 3, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Bruce,I’m sure you know some stay-at-home-moms who are supported by their husbands. Do they fritter the day away? Or are they often tired from caring for demanding babies — changing diapers, giving feedings, bathing, etc.? Since there aren’t that many stay-at-home-dads, you might not know any but I would assume they too would be tired from the strain of caring for very young children. Indeed, they would have to do more work since they can’t rely on their own breasts to feed their young but would have to use bottles which have to be filled and cleaned. I think you would find being a stay-at-home-dad a hard job and might be unlikely to take very young children on many fishing trips.
Let me ask you this: Do you believes babies and toddlers are better off cared for by moms (or dads) or better off in day care? If they are better off with parent care, it makes sense for our society to make that type of investment in the future of our citizens by enabling a parent to be a full-time caregiver.

By Brian Curtis

May 3, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Rocky, that level of “with me or agin me” thinking is what’s caused many of our problems in this country. It’s simpleminded, shortsighted, and it just plain doesn’t work.

It’s not un-American to disagree with your government and challenge its decisions; in fact, it’s one of the most patriotic, democratic, freedom-oriented things you can do.

Many of us may be opposed to your personal take on “what America’s all about,” but that doesn’t make us America-haters. For me, America is about freedom, justice, and wisdom. You say, “Show me where the Constitution permits social programs?” I say, “Show me where the Constitution permits pre-emptive warfare, un-persons, suspension of civil liberties guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, and all the other crap Bush has pulled!”

quote: “Either you love our country for what it is, or you don’t love our country. It’s that simple.”

You’re dead wrong, Rocky—and you’ve inadvertently hit on one obviousl difference between liberal and conservative patriots. Conservative flag-wavers cheer, “My country, right or wrong!” Liberals remember the rest of that phrase: “When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be PUT right.”

It’s the right-winger who insists on unquestioning obedience (as long as a Republican’s in office) and blind trust that “America can do no wrong.” Liberals know better… and we show a greater love of country when we watch for mistakes and act to correct them, rather than just tolerating it as we head down a path from superpower to empire to fascist tyranny.

Or, to summarize: Liberals love their country more than you do—because we love it BETTER than you do.

By Desi

May 3, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

The amazing thing is how naive most of your comments are. Everyone wants to blame the drug-addicted parents, children, etc. Have any of you ever thought about how those drugs (or why those drugs) are available in the first place? Because one of YOU who have a high amount of disposable income desires to buy one of YOUR children an SUV or sports car and knows that the investment is mild the return is high and because of your status is society your risks are few. You are close relations/friends with judges, lawyers, politicians and subsequently the youngster on the street selling crack will serve a 5+ times higher sentence than you will for buying the cocaine that the crack was made out of and thus keeping your distance and your hands clean.

And have any of you ever heard of Corporate Welfare=Lee Iaccoca/Chrysler, any of these companies that have run at a loss for YEARS and yet the CEO’s have multi-million dollar mansions and retirement plans???? Don’t talk to me about some poor welfare mother who’s on MARTA when the chairman of a corporation that would have been defunct years ago if not for my tax dollars is driving around in a chauffeur driven limosine!!

Truly the best answer is education. However, there are those whose goals can best be attained by ignorance,unfortunately they are the ones whose loud voices run the country. “Abortion is an abomination!” So is the way in which an unwanted, neglected child is forced to live (and frequently die). “Put the child up for adoption.” Newsweek did an article years ago that proved adoption rates are significant mostly for caucasian children, specifically blonde caucasian children with blue or “light” colored eyes. So the alternative would be to grow up in an institution??? Come on people! This is not a viable alternative. The answers are hard and in a lot of ways ugly!!! Admit that there is no one solution. Throw out the underlying racially motivated answers and start with the truth.

By Paul

May 3, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Ed, I do not care about politics, Democrat, Republican, Liberal, whatever, I don’t understand why they fight each other instead of looking out for the people who got thewm there, US.

Sandy/Sahan, Parenting is not a challenge at all for me, my daughter is very respectable, understands right and wrong, knows 8:30 is bedtime (even weekends), and has 3 cooked meals a day (yes I get up and cook for her in the morning before I put on my uniform). I have no network for help, you see I am stationed in LA away from all my family in GA. Also, I am not worried about not be “financially unabls to take care of my child” I spent 7 years building a savings account and college fund for my child before I decided to have her. I am not saying that having sex is unmoral….just make sure you and your partner are protected! I am not looking for recognition at all either, I am just tired of hearing crying from left to right!

By Jack

May 3, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Denise, no one disputes that the care of a parent is better than daycare. Only a moron would think that. We just don’t think it is right to be forced to pay for someone else’s childcare. I paid for mine but I would have prefered to have my wife stay at home. (or me for that matter)

By lozen

May 3, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, you are so right. Michael Moore has not been sued for libel by one single person! I loved the vent that said, “Bush holding hands with Saudi Prince! I guess he finally found his mandate!”

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

Rita- That’s great advice and I’ll keep that in mind! :)

By norman

May 3, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

Paul: how are seniors suffering from Social Security? They have a guaranteed income, in many cases more than they contributed. You have been brainwashed by the RNC.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

If the democrats had put a better candidate than “gigilo” Kerry, they may have won. The anybody but Bush tactic was doomed to fail cause the left gave us no solutions to our problems. Bush did.

Lozen, where was the outrage when the beloved Bill Clinton bombed an aspirin factory?

By rocky

May 3, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis - your arguments are laughable. It is the political correctness forced upon us by the left that will eventually lead to the downfall and demise of our country. You are like a woman who marries a man so that she can change him into what she wants him to be, rather than marrying a man who is already the person she wants. Yes, we have some things wrong in our system here, and I think there is nothing wrong with questioning those. I said you either love our country for what it is, or you don’t love our country. I never said that it was wrong to question the things that need improvement. However, Leftists like you don’t only question the things that are wrong. You try to change the things that are right, have always been right and don’t need changing. You try to force upon the majority the whims of the minority. I’m a conservative, not a Republican, and I love my country more than a bed-wetter like you could ever dream of loving it.

By LaShelle

May 3, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

First and foremost let me say this, I do not recieve PA but I have in the past. I hear a lot of people attacking single mothers for their actions. What I don’t hear are two things: 1)People urging the FATHERS to be fathers! Let me educates you guys on something becuase this is obviously something you have no experience in. When you recieve TANF, they automatically go after the father for child support. All monies recieved from TANF are first paid back by child support and then it starts going to the mother. Also, why the hell should it take a year for them start the child support?!?! In my situation, I gave them an exact address, ALL previous addresses, a CORRECT social security number, as well as a CORRECT phone number. The only thing I didn’t give them was his first born child; becuase it’s my son. Does it really take a year to serve a paper that says “by the way, you do have to take care of your resposibilities.” If I would’ve know it was going to take this long I would have had them draft the letter and delivered it myself! 2) I have not heard ONE PERSON mention the two headed demon yet! Can we say ILLEGAL ALIENS!! Let me give you a little heads up…Illegal aliens get fake ids. Fake ids get illegal aliens PUBLIC ASSISTANCE. Illegal aliens cost our economy 90.4 billion dollars last year! Let me spell that one out for you…ILLEGAL ALIENS COST US $90,400,000,000 LAST YEAR!! THAT’S WHERE YOUR TAXES ARE GOING! By the way, the gov’t only pays 16.5 million for PA every year, after that the state is responsible. So get on your representatives because they’re the ones who okay the budgets. By the way, I also agree with the education requirements previously mentioned. You’d think that with the shortage of Registered Nurses the gov’t would get wise. Nurses make enough money that they don’t need assistance. In other words, make some of the trailer-trash, ghetto-queens into respectable nurses and you just might have a few less names on that welfare list.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

Rocky… you make a good point that a lot of people voted for Kerry simply because he was not Bush… I think that says a lot about Bush and not the people who did not vote for him… I voted for Kerry (the douche as you colorfully put it) NOT because he was not Bush but because I liked him more than Bush… and if for nothing else simply because he can actually pronounce three syllable words… such as ‘nuclear’… hahahaha

By Jack

May 3, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Norman, thought you had abandoned us. This subject is hard to turn into a religious debate. This is more fun.

By lozen

May 3, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Oh come on Paul. It’s okay to admit you could use a little help as a single parent! Three year olds are like a tornado, constantly testing their limits, they take so much of your energy. Tell the truth… there are some times when you feel like crying too.

By rocky

May 3, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

NORM!

By norman

May 3, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Let’s add a little spice. Why don’t blacks get married?

By rocky

May 3, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

You are 100% correct, LaShelle. The illigals come here and suck money out of our system that could and should be used for actual citizens of this country. California is a perfect example of how much of a drain they place on our tax dollars and resources.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

So they can work the system easier.

By Bruce

May 3, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

DN,

Yes I do know several stay-at-home-mom’s and yes they do spend most of the day doing what needs to be done. It is of their own choice they do this. Seems funny that most of them DO find the time to do the things they want to do during each day also. But they made that choice why should I be taxed to pay them for that choice? A drug addict chooses to do drugs, should we be taxed to pay for their addiction? No, but if they have kids you do.

As far as SAH dad’s I do not know any but I was one during a 3 month layoff where I once worked a few years back. And yes I cared for my toddler at the time. As I remember I had plenty of time to just sit around if I wanted too and still had the house cleaned supper cooked and the baby seen about when the wife got home. We even went fishing on several occassions. Those were the best suppers!!!

As far as if children should be in day care or not all I have is my own experince. I have two wonderful daughters that were in daycare during their early years. Today they are well rounded, bright, intelligent (yes I’m bragging) young ladies. Not because they stayed in day care but because their mother and I took the reponsibility we choose and did whatever was necessary to see to it that they were. Daycare helped in providing the means for us to work so we could provide them with minor things like clothes, a place to sleep, food, you know the basics in life. However NO ONE help us with that bill. So to answer your question: as far as MY kids are concerned YES daycare was better.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is your own responsibility to provide for the decisions you make in your like. Are there those that need a hand from time to time YES, but just not ALL THE TIME and not everyone…..

By LaShelle

May 3, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

For the same reason that you’re ignorant Norman…by the way, is your mother still in the freezer outside?

By Paul

May 3, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Norman, My mom is 69 and gets a social security check for about 495 a month, far less than the amount she contributed, and if things continue to got he way they are, it will be out of money soon (not because politians say so, but independent sources).

Iozen, I come from a very close-nit country family, our children are raised to behave and taught good manners, not the hellons you see in Walmart grabbing toys and screaming and crying when told no! I need no help in raising my daughter, I am more than capable of doing it on my own. She never “tests” her limits because she knows her limits! She is a well mannered, well communicated child, she knows what respect and values mean!

BTW, I have 16 brothers and sisters, we did not need help from anyone either, my father and mother different shifts, taking turns rasing us…granted there was no more than 6 living in the house at any one time.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Denise- society shouldn’t have to provide subsidies for parents who choose to stay home. If your goal is to stay home then make sure you have the finances and resources to do so. Don’t expect the government to hand you a assistance on a platter. That is a family decision and I do not want to fund others deciding to have a family and staying home collecting subsidies.

By rocky

May 3, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Tim - it honestly bugs me too when I hear a simple word like “nuclear” being mispronounced like that. But I will gladly admit that I love our President. I don’t agree with all his policies (immigration is a BIG one I disagree with) and I haven’t agreed with everything he’s done in the past (Terri Schaivo for instance), but I do believe with all my heart that he is the best man to keep our country safe (or as safe as is possible) and to keep up the fight against those peace-loving Islamists who wish to see us all dead. And to me, keeping our country free and save so that my children have a place in which to keep their liberty and freedom is the most important issue. All others pale in comparison. So I’ll support the man who works towards that goal, even if he does some things I don’t like.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

Paul, your parents deserve much credit for raising 16 children. No way I could have done it. I bet mothers day at the house was a big event.

By norman

May 3, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

La Shelle: I’ll tell you.

Hispanics don’t marry becaused if the marriage goes bad they don’t want hassles with the priests about receiving communion and they don’t want to apply for annulments in church — not difficult but upsetting to many.

Blacks don’t marry because black women, who do all the work, find it difficult to find black men who are not feckless and notin jail. Period.

Most men don’t want responsibility but black men lead in this attractive feature. They also have been raised largely by women: mothers and grandmothers; they’ve seen very few men in their families who took on responsibility. This is not flattering for blacks, but you cannot blame it on slavery. Slaves were very good family people if their owners permitted them to stay together.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Rocky… I certainly respect your decision and your beliefs… and obviously I didn’t not vote for Bush because of his inabilities to properly articulate certain words… but we all have our views of what is most important while choosing a candidate to support… being a gay man one of mine was all the negative attention Mr. Bush placed on the homosexual community… so obviously that is one reason why I did not support him… just because someone voted for Kerry does not mean they did so simply because he was ‘anyone but Bush’

By LaShelle

May 3, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

You know what Norman Bates, I’m not even going to get into the race battle with you because I could just as easily point out some SORRY traits of white men. Go back to doing whatever serial killers do. You’re dismissed.

By Tim

May 3, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

I really like LaSelle! :)

By Jack

May 3, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

Tooooo spicy Norm!

By kimberly

May 3, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

OH OH OH! Let me! I married a white man… So did all my friends. All those weddings. All those divorces! What was the point? Um…. Anyone? Anyone?

Oh yes.. pompous, bull-headed, beer-swigging, stripper-loving, marlboro-smoking, cursing, swearing, criticizing, hypocritical, wife-swapping, employee-nailing, bible-quoting, good ol’ white boys.

By Angie

May 3, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

Why should I (and the rest of the tax payers) have to pay for the prison upkeep when YOUR SON robs a store and goes to jail??? Why should I have to pay for YOUR SON’S food and housing in jail because they committed a crime??? You see, either way (child care or prison) we all end up paying for someone ELSE’S kids with our tax money. I would rather invest in the child’s future than pay for the prison cell later. And why can’t we take some of the money wasted on space exploration and spend it on our own living breathing citizens (children, elderly, homeless)??? Just a thought for the folks that keep saying they don’t want to pay for someone else’s kids…..(Think about it!)

By Paul

May 3, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

This has gone way past reason, outta here!

By Jack

May 3, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

It is silly to think because childcare is not paid for by the govt., the children end up in jail. If the parents are good the child will be. (most of the time, not 100%)

Kimberly, the point is: Why have hamburger when you can have steak?

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

Lashell- I actually brought up the topic of how much benefits illegal aliens receive many, many posts ago. What bothers me the most about my clients is that they ring my phone off the hook when the rent goes up, or if their stamps go down, but ask what they did the last time about their child support case and they look dumbfounded! They would rather run to the DFCS/Section8 office than try to track down “el senor sperm donor.” Most of the time because he’s in the house with them! That’s why they can’t find them. There are many men that looooooooove having girlfriends on public asst because they don’t have to do anything! They don’t have to pay rent, so neither party works, food-covered with the good ol’ EBT card. I know the game because I see it and catch people screwing it up every day.

And yes, I have written several times to our wonderful congresspersons who have their heads so far up their asses they cannot begin to tell you what’s going on.

We need to be educating people and getting them out of the damn house! If they’re in the house all day then babies will continue to come (William Julius Johnson actually studied this).

The fact that you no longer receive PA means one of two things: Either you were intelligent enough to know that it was temporary and wanted to get on your feet for yourself and your children, or: you used up all of your months on TANF or violated program policies and your case was terminated. Listening to you I’m inclined to believe that you are the former. Your voice is needed to make changes, too.

What you forgot to mention about illegal aliens is that they buy fake socials and birth certs for thousands of dollars that they have saved for months and months just to find a job and work 12 hours+ per day for 4-10.00 per hour. At least many of them are working! There are some of the women who lie about men not being around. They are hard to track because you have to “catch” them working.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this

Okay, I will sound crazy for saying this, but Norman is pretty much right.

One thing with Latinos, though. If you speak to them, the majority don’t matter because they automatically see themselves as married once they live together and have children.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

Correction- the majority don’t marry….

By Jack

May 3, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

Akeya you are by far the most qualified one on this blog to post on this subject. Kudos to you for the job you choose to do.:)

By Angie

May 3, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

I did not mean to imply the children without adequate child care will end up in prison. I was showing you that you DO pay for someone else’s children…one way or the other.

By Akeya

May 3, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

jack- thanks:)

By Jack

May 3, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

That is true Angie. I mis-read it. (I have to sneak here at work)

By norman

May 3, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

Akeya: having lived in California I have a lot of information about Hispanics and the Catholic Church. I have it on good Hispanic authority that Hispanics don’t want to mess with annulment and with priests about their arrangements. It is much easier to live together without marriage. This is the equivalent of common law marriage — which I think requires something like seven years of cohabitation.

I do not object to non-marriage, La Shelle. I object to non-couples having lots and lots of children only one poor female is supporting. This is the black situation. It is not racist to observe this.

From the leftist viewpoint as expressed by Marx and countless socialists in the 19th Century, marriage is simply a form of selling yourself. In any case bourgeois marriage is about consolidation of property primarily and the creation of heir to inherit it.

If blacks would stay together as unmarried couples I would be pleased. It is their promiscuous coupling and recoupling with others which is troubling, not morally, but socially. It creates an underclass and poverty and crime and drugs.

By lozen

May 3, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Why Norman, all the black people I know are married and putting their children through private school or college! You must associate with a different type of people than I do.

By norman

May 3, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Kuwait has just rejected woman voting for municipal elections. Boy, I guess the Southern Baptists wish they could do the same.

By Sandy/Sanhan

May 3, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

Brian Curtis, standing ovation. You understand liberalism and stated it very well. Thank you.

Paul, sounds like you’ve got it under control. May it stay that way for you and your daughter.

Rocky, I’ll love and support my country by responsibly speaking out, especially when it strays from its ideals.

By Jack

May 3, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

Be careful Norman. Women will start to come out and claim you took advantage of them like Bill Cosby.

Lozen, open your eyes sweetie.

By norman

May 3, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

Iozen: you are evidently in touch with the black bourgeoisie. I was referring to the black masses.

By norman

May 3, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

Here in Savannah, Iozen, blacks and whites live together and do not see one another. Each group is invisible to the other.

In fact, not only in Savannah, but throughout Georgia (perhaps not in Atlanta which is not very southern anyway). Our cousin pointed out to me that blacks are invisible — the most brilliant observation I have ever heard about the problem.

By norman

May 3, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

Yes, Bill Cosby is really something. Blacks do not have self control.

By TAIWANA

May 3, 2005 05:33 PM | Link to this

I DO BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD HELP WITH CHILDCARE. NOT SO NECESSARILY JUST FOR SINGLE MOTHERS. THERE ARE MARRIED COUPLES WITH CHILDREN WHO NEED CHILDCARE HELP ALSO. THE PROBLEM THAT I DO SEE IS THAT YHE GOVERNMENT IS SO WILLING TO HELP WELFARE RECEIPIENTS TO DO EVERYTHING. I AM A SINGLE MOTHER (HAVE 2 CHILDREN BY ONE MAN WHO I AM MARRIED TO BUT WE ARE SEPARATED)MY HUSBAND DOES NOT HELP WITH THESE CHILDREN, I HAVE A CHILD SUPPORT ORDER AND I HAVE HAVE TURNED HIM OVER TO THE ATTORNEYS FOR NON PAYMENT (OVER $10,000 BEHIND) AND I STILL GET PAYMENTS HERE AND THERE BUT THE CHILD SUPPORT ORDER THAT HE HAS FOR A MOTHER ON WELFARE GETS A PAYMENT EVERY WEEK AND WE HAVE THE SAME CAUSE WORKER. SO TELL ME WHATS THE DEAL. I KNOW PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO DONT WORK, ARENT TRYING TO WORK AND WOULDNT WORK IF A JOB WAS PLACED ON A SILVER PLATTER AND GIVEN TO THEM. THEY SIT HOME ALL DAY AND THE GOVERNMENT PAYS FOR NOT ONLY CHILDCARE BUT RENT, FOOD AND MEDICAL EXPENSES AND IN SOME CAUSES THEY GET A UTILITY CHECK EACH MONTH.

I WORK SIX DAYS (52 HOURS)A WEEK. I CAN NOT GET THE GOVENMENT TO HELP ME WITH NOTHING. I DIDNT ASK THEM TO PAY ALL OF DAYCARE JUST SOME OF IT. I CANT GET SECTION 8, FOOD STAMPS OR MEDICAID. I GET PD EVERY TWO WEEKS THE AMT I PAY EACH PAY PERIOD FOR MEDICAL COVERAGE ONLY IS 204.00 COMPARE TO 25.69 JUST FOR MYSELF. DONT COVER ME ON MEDICAID JUST THE KIDS. MY RENT IS 565.00 A MTH AND ITS NOTHING FANCY JUST 3 BEDROOMS B/C I HAVE A BOY AND GIRL THAT I CANT PUT IN THE SAME ROOM PER RENTAL RULES. I PAY $90.00 A WEEK FOR DAYCARE AND THET IS JUST FOR 2 MAYBE 2 1/2 HOURS A DAY AFTER SCHOOL AND IT GOES UP IF THEY HAVE A DAY OUT OF SCHOOL. I MAKE 10.83 AN HOUR. NOW YOU TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT I CAN USE SOME KIND OF HELP. EVEN IF NOTHING ELSE I CAN PAY ALL OF THE EXPENSES HELP OUT WITH FOOD STAMPS. DONT TALK BAD ABOUT SINGLE MOTHERS ALL OF US WERENT JUST OUT MAKING BABY AFTER BABY. I WAS MARRIED WHEN MY CHILDREN WERE BORN AND DUE TO CIRCUMSTANCES OUT OF MY CONTROL MY MARRIAGE FAILED. I DONT LIVE EXTRAVAGANTLY. I SHOP AT WALMART AND PAYLESS. I SHOP FOR BARGINS, CUT COUPONS TRAVEL TO DIFFERENT STORES TO GET SALES. ALL I’M SAYING IS THAT SOME OF US NEED HELP BUT WHY NOT HELP THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF THE ONES WHO WONT DO ANYTHING BUT COLLECT GOVERNMENT FUNDS. MY CHILDREN ARE 9 AND 7 AND I HAVE ONLY RECEIVED WELFARE FOR 2 MONTHS IN MY LIFE. THOSE TWOMONTHS WERE ONLY DONE B/C I LOST MY JOB AND TRIED TO APPLY FOR DAYCARE SO THAT I CAN JOB HUNT AND THEY WOULDNT LOSE THEIR SPOT AT THE FACILITY AND WAS TOLD THAT I COULD GET DAYCARE ASST IF I WAS ON AID SO I APPLIED FOR THE AID A WEEK LATER MY 1ST CHILD SUPPORT CHECK CAME AND I CALLED MY CASE WORKER TO CANCEL AID AND IT TOOK 2 MONTHS TO GET IT CANCELLED. THEN THEY TOOK THE CHILDCARE ALSO BECAUSE IF I WASNT EMPLOYED THEN I DIDNT NEED CHILDCARE….SO WHO WAS SUPPOSE TO WATCH THEM WHILE I LOOKED FOR A JOB? THEN IF YOU REALLY WANT A LAUGH I HAD TO FIGHT TO GET MY BACK CHILD SUPPORT BECAUSE I WAS TOLD (AT THE TIME MY CHILD SUPPORT WAS $6,000 BEHIND) THAT IT WAS OWED TO THE STATE FOR THE 2 MONTHS I RECEIVED WELFARE (MIND YOU $292.00 A MONTH).

By Lyrazel

May 4, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

It seems no one here likes the welfare system and even the people working in the system loate it. I worked at ADC and became shocked byabuses—and in the same hour—what help was needed. When Reagans welfare cuts sent applicants scrambling with far less benefits (some more than I was paid working there)—some were dropped—and in our office a nun who did volunteer work at foodstamps window was shot point blank by a man who had his benefits cut off. I still remember that day.

What I see here is no solutions. Bickering about shiftless and lazy folk is far more easy to do—but I cant help agree with how much abuse the system has.

But lets look at Wal-Mart. Is their policy of having 40% of their workforce receiving social program monies (child-aid mostly) not an abuse of the system? If a company can make billions per year in profit—does it have zero responsibility to its workers, to the community it builds in? I see their low-wage (yes its still legal wage $5.50/hr) as an affront to the state—the county and its taxpayers who end up paying for all those foodstamp recipients, PeachCare recipients and recipients of government funds. Are low prices really what Wal-Mart offers the community—or does it feed off your tax dollars faster and deeper than a mother breeding seven? Why cant a company large as Wal-Mart not have a daycare center for its employees? Would it really take so much of their profits to become responsible to their employees?

Some of you spew the dogma of the welfare queen—and yet—how many of you understand how much cash we paid to American/United/Eastern airlines or to GM/and all those other companies who got government assistance in bankrupcy prevention— How much cash has gone to ADM who gets government subsidizies with its Ethanol program? Enough to provide every welfare recipient in America benefits to $40,000. And what about all those businesses like Levi Straus who left the USA plants closed but still gets sizeable tax breaks from the government? Yes, there is a long list, J.P. Stevens is still collecting from Georgia—and they left YEARS ago. Why no outrage at the abuse of the system, fellow taxpayers? Why no outrage pharmacutical companies get tax breaks for developing new drugs but are in truth re-marketing old drugs with Quick-Release formulas to make them NEW, i.e., more expensive? Yes, your tax dollars fund research—especially marketing—and did you know many of your drugs ARE NOT MANUFACTURED in the USA? Yeah, but they get tax breaks. Ask yourself is the baby-pooping queen cheating the system or is corporate welfare actually the one raping the American Taxpayer?

By Angie

May 4, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

Taiwana, I feel your pain and frustration! Been there…done that myself. You have to be practically living on the street before you can get ANY help whatsoever. I did get WIC for a very short amt of time that helped some. Was in your same boat, had no child support for a long time and still no assistance. Needed a root canal due to a tooth that was causing me SEVERE pain but was told I did not qualify for any dental services. (I was out of work at the time.) Oh, I could go on a certain Saturday to the WORST part of Atlanta and stand in line with over 100 people to try and be seen by the (govt/state?) dentist. I drove down there and quickly turned around and left-fearing for my life and my vehicle. Sometimes people are down on there luck and need help to keep their head above water (and their children’s heads)…but I am against allowing people to make a career out of drawing welfare. But why not HELP the ones who are trying to help themselves??? Taiwana-I hope you and your children are doing ok and are receiving the support you deserve. I wish you the BEST!!!:)

By Whiley

May 4, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

How HIDEOUSLY sad that we can put men on the moon, take down the Berlin wall, etc , and yet we aren’t prepared to help young women in a tough spot. We should ALL be working towards a world that can offer something better to an expectant mother than a life of collecting welfare and a mistreating partner.

Females don’t get pregnant on their own, but they are the ones with all the burden of parenthood. Where are all the fathers?

It is insane to think that a few hundred dollars a month are worth all the work of motherhood. Why are you so upset over tax money going to single moms, but not at all bothered about the billions spent on housing dangerous criminals for example?

How can anyone complain about the number of single mothers on welfare, but do nothing to fight against the religious nuts that are against most birth control, research & sex education?

This topic is ridiculous. How about discussing better birth control options, list companies & agencies doing research on better birth control, when & how to discuss birth control options for your teens, etc.

By norman

May 4, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this

Watch it Jack, Lozen is a grandmother. She doesn’t take to being called “sweeteie” very well. It has something to do with that man-hating thing, and how men are the root of all her problems.

By norman

May 4, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Let’s stop talking about the poor — they are boring. Talk about the rich, especially the Masons and Walbanks in metro Atlanta.

Apparently on Jennifer’s bridal list was a $280. Waterford ice bucket. Anne Applebaum in the Washington Post is today making fun of this. Why? My cousin’s daughter had expensive china on her bridal list from which I chose a $300. platter as a gift.

Mason says that the couple, though living together, had been “moral” and lived together only for convenience. Who will believe that baloney? Sounds like my wife’s family, right out of Tennesse Williams, with adulterers, clergy, drunks, and politicians — all in Georgia.

Score of clergy, Baptist and Methodist, have been counselling this couple but not about not living together. They don’t seem to feel that pre-marital cohabitation is wrong unless it is without benefit of clergy. All those clerics are overfed and undereducated, which is what I should have expected.

The wedding was as all marriage is, not about love or sacrament, but about the consolidation of property and the creation of heirs to inherit it. This is still better than what blacks do but not much. At least there is some concern with property, which after all lasts at least more than drugs or sex.

Jennifer may be spoiled and she certainly never learned in her nice Christian southern family to express her real feelings. God forbid. When my wife told her aunt that he father had molested her, her aunt almost jumped out the window. She had no compassion for my wife, only for her family reputation.

John Mason seems like an overfed, overgrown little boy, with appropriate Christian platitudes. He will make a good ole boy.

By norman

May 4, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

Norman 8:56 AM is not by the real Norman

By Darlene

May 4, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

Why is everyone so concerned over helping the poor in our coiuntry and not very concerned about the rich who are bilking out country out of God knows how much money??? The rich can afford the scrutiny while the poor are trying to pout food on the table. Lets put the rich and their tax loopholes,etc under the microscope and see how we can save ourselves some money!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the rich lose some of their “tax breaks”,etc it won’t affect them. But if the poor lose their assistance then they can be on the street as well as the innocent children. We’ew looking in the wrong place to cut money and save our taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

Angie- I have been working in social services for about 6 years, and I assure you that 80% of those who are on assistance are nowhere near living on the streets and oftentimes put themselves in the position to be “impoverished.” They are living in HUGE houses built very recently and driving luxury cars. This is about 65% of my caseload! People like Taiwana will not get help because the bar is set so low that only those conniving enough will get under it so that they can continue fraudulent behavior. While everyone is here raving about how corporate welfare is the problem and complaining about how we are scapegoating welfare queens they need to know the facts. Many people here know much about corporate welfare, which is why they are mad. But if they knew the truth about what was going on in our welfare system they would be just as p** about that. However you cut it the money is not being used to help those who truly need the help and are working toward self-sufficience.

Whiley- many of the “disappearing fathers” are lying in bed right beside the mothers. Those who are not working in social services don’t have the luxury of discovering all of the fraud going on. Don’t be fooled by what you think is going on.

Also, I’m opposed to billions of dollars being spent on criminals. It’s ridiculous. They’re criminals for pete’s sake!

My point about the welfare kings and queens is that all of the money wasted on those who don’t give a damn enough to try and care for their families should be cut off so that the money is better used elsewhere.

We have families in which the women are 26-37 years old with 8+ children. These women have never worked and just continue to have babies. Why should we continue to pay for this when there are women like Taiwana who really need assistance? Some of our families have 2-3 adults, none of them working, and paying 0 rent and receiving a utility check from the housing authority every month. Why do people want to support this?

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Taiwana,

I pray things are better for you now and hope you all the best. I agree that sometimes we all need help and it can be a pain to get it. I would say dead beat dads should be locked up but how will they pay child support if they are not earning an income? The sad part is the kids are the ones that pay the most serious price.

Maybe this will help. If you get the chance, have your child support collection go through Child Support Recovery. Here in Georgia Child Support Recovery will garnish or automatically withdraw what he owes you from his check before he gets it and send it to you. If for some reason they (CSR) do not receive the money, THEY (CSR) will go after him legally. I know this works because I have gone through it. My ex wife complained so much that I wasn’t paying, which I was, so I had it setup myself just to protect myself.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

Whiley, nice to see you back. I thought I may have offended you in my post last week. Please accept my apology. Felt bad about it all weekend.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

To the fake Norman; I may not agree with Lozen’s views, but she seems nice like most of the other ladies on this blog. Yes I am a “flirt”

By Ben

May 4, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

Norman, A lot of black guys don’t get married and settle down because we had a very long and secret meeting. We sat down and discussed the “Origin” of all of our problems. Consensus showed that the white man is the root of all evil and wrong in the world. So every black man figured by impregnating as many white women as possible we could destroy the root of evil, hatred, prejudice, bigotry and any other negative term for racism. Not long after that, the Hispanics decided to join our cause! Soon, before you know it, the world will be free of racism and the party can begin!

By Ben

May 4, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

Surely, I am joking!

By norman

May 4, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Ben: Thanks for being honest. I always was against miscegenation.

By Angie

May 4, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

It’s refreshing to see that everyone can discuss this topic (or any topic) without name-calling and bashing Christians! Wow!!! How very refreshing. I’ve actually heard alot of compliments as well to various people. How nice!!!:)

By Lyrazel

May 4, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

Akeya, its not just welfare moms abusing. My neighbor was fat. She was over 300lbs. From the government Medicaid program she got: that intestine-stomach surgery, housing, foodstamps, and $400/month benefits. She has no kids. She moved in with the man next door and continued to collect housing payments/he paid rent/foodstamps/ and got a second surgery for removing skin after the weight loss. Now she is tubby and still on medicaid…once you get on medicaid you never need get off!

By Whiley

May 4, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

Jack, I’m not offended by anything anyone says. Surprised & frightened maybe, but not offended. lol

Some discussions aren’t worth discussing. It’s no secret most people don’t like paying out money to “welfare Queens” with the fathers mooching too.

Aren’t most welfare recipients divorced women who find themselves in a financial nightmare due to non-payment of child support? Can’t afford day care? Lost their job? Medical bills piling up? And the non-paying dads that disappear or make excuse after excuse why they can’t pay is who makes me the most mad. They can’t pay anything, but expect the mother to pay for it all, and have the kids full time. I’ve seen it over & over & over. I must say honestly, some women I’ve known have chosen to distance themselves from an ex, not even wanting support due to past abuse. They would rather suffer & try to get assistance than deal with an abusive ex. (which in a few cases I absolutely understood) If all fathers paid for their children, even if it’s partial monthly payments, I wonder how many women wouldn’t NEED assistance from the state?

Maybe if all fathers were without a doubt forced to pay child support, maybe more of them could WEAR CONDOMS ! lol

By Lola

May 4, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Ben - you made me LOL with that post! :)

My heart does go out to women like Taiwana who are obviously working hard to lift herself and her children up from a life of poverty, and are unable to get help. She is the exact kind of person who should be MOST eligible for our help, and it is sad that the money instead goes to the baby factories who have no desire to work. I would gladly contribute my taxes to help Taiwana and women/men like her who wish for a better life for themselves and their children.

Darlene - I do have to disagree with you on the issue of tax breaks for the wealthy. While it may make some people angry that people who have a lot of money are allowed to keep more of it, the fact is that they earned that money and it is rightfully theirs, not the government’s. It doesn’t “cost” the government to let wealthy people keep more of their own money because it was never money that belonged to the government to begin with. You say to close their loopholes and “save ourselves some money”. But you don’t save yourself money by taking it away from others.

Akeya - you (in my opinion) are the most qualified person to speak about the realities of the welfare system, since you are in that environment every single day. All the rest of us have is hear-say and stereotypes. So when you say there are more people “playing” the system than there are legitimate cases, I take that to be a fact. And that’s a very sad fact indeed. How can we, the taxpayers, put more of a checks and balances system in the works to change that and to ensure that the people who REALLY need assistance are the ones getting it? There has to be a way.

By Paul

May 4, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

I am a single dad, but I am getting married next week. I do have some compassion for you Taiwana. People like you do need some type of help, my ex wife was one of those in the Atlanta area gaming the system when she had my daughter the 1st year after our divorce. She was going to Med School and collecting welfare, medical (granted my daughter is covered 100% by the military), and childcare. Needless to say I used that against her to get my daughter out of that situation. They were living in a nice apartment, but were living badly, I sent her 560 every month for child support, which she did not report. The state tried to come after me to recover the welfare and childcare, to which I showed the the cashed checks by my ex. I have never had to have help with my daughter and am proud to say that her mother has turned over a new leaf in her life the past 2 years.

BTW, norman or anybody else wanting to see my wedding gift list can go to Dillards . com and check under Paul Turner and Kristina Auer……..no 285 ice buckets, but you can send anything you want!!!!!!!!!! :) j/k

By norman

May 4, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

We could discuss male culture, how young men are encouraged to allow their hormones to dominate their lives. It is possible even for young men to learn restraint. But no one does it any more. Blacks are simply left to their own devices more than whites but the differences racially are disappearing. I am not recommending Puritanism but more rational attitudes towards sex. Perhaps brothels for young men would be a good idea. Separate for different races, to be sure! That’s for you, Ben.

By Whiley

May 4, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Brothels???? The women working in the brothel’s are someone’s daughter, sister, girlfriend

Disgusting.

If you are going to suggest that, why not brothels for old men that like little girls or boys? Hey, if they are 18 why not? After all males can’t control themselves sexually right?

Will there be brothels for young women to go to also? And if so will they be state funded?

By Lola

May 4, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Whiley - you are absolutely right. It unfortunately usually falls to the mother to support and raise the children fathered by these deadbeats, and that makes me mad as well. Why should the women always be the ones to make all the sacrifices and suffer? Maybe men who are found to have fathered children that they refuse to support should be subjected to sterilization so that they can’t keep doing so. It wouldn’t pay for the ones they have, but it would prevent more from being created.

I myself dealt with an abusive fiancee 13 years ago and luckily had the sense to get out of that situation before closing the deal. But I can absolutely understand how a woman would rather just forge ahead on her own, even on PA, with her children, and leave such a man behind. Sometimes it’t not worth trying to get money out of him or allowing him to continue being a part of her life. I don’t blame them for that one bit.

I do disagree with providing welfare to a single mother so that she can stay home with her children. Women like me would LOVE to stay home with our children, but we aren’t able to because we can’t afford it. So we go to work and put our children into the best daycare we can find, and pray that we made a good choice. I am lucky enough to have found the perfect daycare and my daughter spends her days socializing, learning and having fun with other children her age. If we could provide that kind of care for all children, I would happily contribute to that cause for lower-income WORKING mothers and fathers.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this

If a man helps creat a child and doesn’t pay child support, he should have his manhood removed. A few of these done and made public would surely help out these women.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel- you’re absolutely right. And that’s even more tragic that we have SEVERAL SINGLE, CHILDLESS, WOMEN AND MEN who are abusing the system left and right. Once again, people don’t really know what’s going on so they are not as upset.

Whiley- most welfare recipients are the products of their parents who were on welfare who are the products of their parent who were on welfare. It’s a cycle. WE would like to believe that a majority of those on assistance on the divorced parents of which you speak, but the reality is that they are a small percentage of the caseloads.

By Lola

May 4, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

norman - looks like you got the “spice” you were looking for.

There is no such thing as something being government funded or state funded. It is all taxpayer-funded. Never forget the people who are working hard day after day to not only provide their own families with the necessities, but who also contribute a portion of their paychecks towards the betterment of the lives of others.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

“Blacks are simply left to their own devices more than whites but the differences racially are disappearing…” Norman, PROVE IT!

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

Amen to that Jack!!

By Jack

May 4, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

Brothels for women? Why would that be necessary? Can’t they get “some” whenever they want? If not I’m sure there would be no problem finding potential employees! LOL

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

Jack- why give it away if people will pay for it? It’s all about capitalism, right? LOL

By norman

May 4, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

LaShell: as usual you don’t get it. I was saying the differences between whites and blacks in the matter of sexual irresponsibility is declining — that means white young men are getting just as worthless about sex as black men.

By norman

May 4, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

Once white youngsters got hooked on black music decline in their morals was inevitable.

By norman

May 4, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

Ben: why did you need to tell us you were joking? Don’t you think we are smart enough to get the joke? We’re white you know.

By norman

May 4, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

Ms. Wilbanks said that an Hispanic man kidnapped her. Was this lie racist? Would it have been better to have said he was a redneck? A Finn? An Arab? A brother?

By Ben

May 4, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

I don’t know what bothered me more: Having to look up miscegenation or the fact that it bothers you. I guess considering the fact that I am a product of miscegenation and that I am participating in miscegenation I’m gonna have to be bothered by the fact that I had to look it up.

I think hitler opposed miscegenation too. lol.

Oh, and by the way, good twist blaming the downfall of white teens on black music. Funny though that the labels producing and selling this music are owned by white men. Oh the irony in all of its glory.

Norman, climb the wall buddy, take a look at the other side. If that doesn’t work, turn on the lights, better yet, just open your eyes.

By norman

May 4, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

Ben: you may be the product of miscegenation but according to racial lore you are 100% black. Go to Brazil where you can be a mulatto.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

You can blame it on what you want Norman Bates, but black or white, music should have no effect on your child’s morals if you raise your child the right way. If Johnny got disciplined a bit more then maybe he wouldn’t do some of the things he does.

By lozen

May 4, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Jack’s my bud and he can call me sweetie! We don’t always see eye to eye and there’s nothing wrong with that. It is possible for people to disagree without being so mean.

By kimberly

May 4, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

Jack, how ‘bout a DO-able version of what you said? For convicted criminals who already have children they don’t support, how ‘bout vasectomy (or tubal ligation) as a parole incentive? It shouldn’t be the only consideration, of course, but they all get paroled anyway.. How ‘bout six months or a year earlier if they volunteer to be sterilized? This indicates a mindset of rehabilitation by taking responsibility. This could be implemented, but the benefits would take 15-20 years to see.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

How bout the “Rockdale” teens? They were white.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

You are too funny. Yeah, I consider myself black WHEN I have to identify with a particular race, but I don’t typically feel the need to classify myself. I am me. Brazil sounds nice, would love to go there FOR VACATION. Why would I want to run somewhere else, where I can be someone else? I’m cool right where I am. Thanks for the advice though. I’ll file it right here in my trash can, along with the rest of your opinions!

You should try a new topic Norman, stick to something you can deal with.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Good suggestion Kimberly.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

I think I like you, Ben, lol…you dislike Norman just as much as I do! :O)

By norman

May 4, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Ben: if you don’t check BLACK on questionnaires your people will be short changed. Don’t want that, do you? The money would go to OTHER.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

Norman,

You do realize that the “scientific evidence” used to prove that biracial children are in fact, classified as black was started by slave owners who did not want to claim familial ties with the children they had with slaves, right? My son is biracial, and when people try to tell me that he is 100% black I quickly correct them.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

Thanks LaShelle!

By Ben

May 4, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

What are you talking about? How am I shortchanging anybody by not checking a box. I don’t HAVE to check anything. The money never goes where it’s supposed to anyway. I gave up on that money along time ago and my money goes where I want it to go. Charities are middlemen.

Checking a box doesn’t benefit or hurt MY PEOPLE as you put it. Norman, as much as I hate to admit it, YOU are my people too.

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

THANK YOU AKEYA, ANGIE, BRUCE AND LOLA FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING. I JUST WANTED PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT NOT EVERYONE (SINGLE MOTHERS) ARE JUST WOMEN HAVING BABY AFTER BABY TO GET MONEY FROM THE STATE. BRUCE THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION AND I WILL CHECK INTO IT. I TRIED USING SUPPORT KIDS AND FOR EVERY CHECK THAT THEY GET FOR YOU THEY WANT 30%. IF I COULD AFFORD THAT THEN WOULD I REALLY BE PUSHING THE CHILD SUPPORT ISSUE. I ALSO READ THE COMMENT ABOUT NOT SENDING DEADBEAST DADS TO JAIL B/C THEN THEY CANT WORK. I KNOW SOME LIKE MY CHILDRENS DAD WHO WORK BUT IF CHILD SUPPORT CATCHES UP TO THEM THEY WILL QUIT AND FIND ANOTHER JOB OR WORK A FULL TIME JOB AND A PARTTIME JOB AND ONLY REPORT THE PART TIME JOB TO THE CHILD SUPPORT CASE WORKER.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO START A PETITION TOHAVE NORMAN’S FREEDOM OF SPEECH SUSPENDED SINCE HE CAN ONLY MAKE RUDE/RACIAL AND WHAT SEEMS TO BE WITHOUT THOUGHT COMMENTS.

By norman

May 4, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

No, Ben. Blacks and whites are invisible to one another. That’s the southern way.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot. lol. Whoever said that first was talking about Savannah, right? Well I was stationed near Savannah for a while and I never noticed that. And I guess I have to get used to the Southern way considering I’m a Yankee and all.

The only thing that should be invisible is the color in my opinion.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Tawaina-

Have you tried the National Child Support recovery? I think they want like 23% (I’m not sure).

the website is nationalchildsupport.com

The number is 1-800-736-6272.

By norman

May 4, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Taiwana: you don’t like freedom of speech, eh? What country are you from?

By norman

May 4, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

Ben: Hinesville is not Savannah.

By Rita

May 4, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

Taiwana, Also, one of the best ways to make the child support system work for you is to set up a meeting with your case worker. Find out what recovery solutions are available in your state and then provide that case worker all the info you have about the non-custodial parent (social security number is key as is driver’s license number—best tracking tools for income).

If the state has solutions in place such as driver’s license suspension, revoking passport priviledges, credit reporting, tax refund recovery, state gambling income recovery, and ultimately imprisonment for failure to pay…insist that your case worker go through the solutions with you step-by-step. Then stay on his/her behind to invoke those solutions. This is a “free” service of the the child support collection agency in your state (some single moms websites usually have links that help with this info).

Many states have started tacking on a fee to the actual dollars collected (usually 1% with a calendar year dollar limit)—no recovery, no fee. 23% is a lot to give to someone who may only collect $2,000—that’s $460 out of your child’s pocket! With the advent of the internet, it’s more useful to find out if there is any family land or property, pending inheritance, etc. that you can put a lien on. Then provide that info the case worker and insist they follow through (they have the tracking resources at their disposal). That usually gets slackers to work pronto because the monthly support check is usually cheaper than surrendering property on the basis of arrears.

Good luck!

By Ben

May 4, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the geography tip Norman. I wasn’t in Hinesville, and I know the difference. I was in Beaufort, S.C., but spent a lot of time in Savannah.

By lozen

May 4, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe Norman should have his right to free speech denied under any circumstances. Let all your hatred and bias and stupidity pour out Norman! I think it’s good for us to realize this kind of thinking still exists. It would be pretty hard for me not to see black people since my supervisor and my co-worker in our three-person office are both black. And this woman is, by far, the best supervisor I have ever had. People can remain prejudiced and able to stereotype others as long as they are determined to do so. For those of us with a bigger life who interact with a diversity of people, it’s not possible. I have always loved diversity.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

What about those in a different situation? I’ve been waiting almost a year for the state to even establish an order!! They say it’s because he lives in another state but I practically walked them to his door and knocked on it for them and I’m still waiting! I’ve provided them with all of the information you mentioned and more and still nothing! The gov’t needs to get off their asses and do what I paid them to do!

By Jack

May 4, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Need to get out the knife!

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

AKEYA-I’LL CHECK THEM OUT NORMAN- I DO LIKE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND I AM FROM THE UNITED STATES. YOU, MR. NORMAN ARE A WHOLE NEW BREED AND SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO PUBLIC SPEAKING. RITA-I HAVE DONE ALL OF THAT. I WAS PROVIDING MY CASE WORKER WITH THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND SOME OF THE TIME HIS PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT. SHE WOULD TELL ME THAT SHE DIDNT LOCATE HIM BUT I GAVE THE SAME INFORMATION TO THE CHILD SUPPORT PROSECUTING ATTORNEY AND HE PULLED IT RIGHT UP USING THE SAME SYSYTEM THE CASE WORKER USED. I HAVE ASKED WHY HASNT HIS CHECK BEEN GARNISHED OR WHY DO WE KEEP HAVING COURT DATE AFTER COURT DATE WHEN HE’S ALREADY IN THE HOLE. IN MY EYES THEY ARENT PUSHING THE ISSUE B/C HE DOESNT OWE THE STATE ANY OF THIS MONEY. HE HAS ANOTHER CHILD SUPPORT CASE AND HE DOES OWE THE STATE ON THAT ONE AND IT GETS COLLECTED ON EVERY WEEK. I KNOW THIS FOR SURE B/C I HAVE THE CASE NUMBER AND CHECK IT REGULARLY. I HAVE BROUGHT THIS UP ONLY TO BE TOLD THAT THEY CANT DISCUSS ANOTHER PERSONS CASE WITH ME. IT JUST FRUSTRATES ME TO SEE MEN WHO ARE SUPPORTING THEIR CHILDREN BE PLACED IN JAIL FOR NONPYMT B/C THEY GAVE IT TO THE MOM INSTEAD OF SENDING IT THROUGH THE STATE WHEN THERE ARE DADS WHO WONT DO ANYTHING FOR THEIR KIDS. (MY KIDS DAD WONT GO TO MEETINGS AT THE SCHOOL, BABYSIT WHEN THEY ARE OUT OF SCHOOL. IF A EMERGENCY BREAKS OUT AND HE HAS TO PICK THEM UP HE WILL NEED TO GET DIRECTINS B/C HE HAS NEVER BEEN NOR DOES HE KNOW THE NAME OF THE SCHOOL. HE DOESNT DO DR’S APPT OR ANYTHING.) HE ‘S JUST A SPERM DONOR BUT HE KEEPS MAKING CHILDREN (HE HAS TWO OTHER THAN MINE). I NEVER WANTED TO BE IN THIS POSITION OF RAISING CHILDREN BYMYSELF OR HAVING CHILDREN BY MULTIPLE MEN SO AFTER THIS DIDNT WORK OUT WITH MY HUSBAND I CHOSE TO HAVE MY TUBES TIED. I FEEL THIS WAS BEST FOR ME. I ALREADFY AM STRUGGLING AND DONT NEED MULTIPLE KIDS OR FATHERS.

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

Taiwana,

It has been a couple of years since I was paying child support but at that time the service was free. If the support payer skips town, or changes jobs, CSR will go look for them at no cost to you. The best way I found to get it going was to have it court ordered. That way if CSR slacks off you can have the AG’s office held for contempt of court. I do not know all the ends and outs but I do know it worked for me. I was not a dead beat dad but in order for me to keep the ex off my back that was the only solution that really worked. I agree with Rita, the squeaky wheel always gets the most grease.

By norman

May 4, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Iozen: when you get angry it is ok. when I get angry you call it racism. I am beginning to think maybe some of those cranks who always complain about you may be on to something.

David Ignatius in the Washington Post has a column in which he discusses historian James McPherson’s tour of Gettysburg for the benefit of American army officers, with the message that the North failed to reconstruct the South and America had better not fail to reconstruct Iraq. What a conclusion. I wrote Ignatius my conclusion: that neither war, the Civil or the Irqi, should have ever been fought. Do you think blacks would have remained slaves until today?

And, Ben, would you really be worse off? Just kidding. We crackers can joke you know, that is why we find you people so fetching.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

TAIWANA,FYI you know when you use all caps it means you are yelling.

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

LaShelle and Taiwana,

Sounds like you two need to get together with a news reporter and tell your story at 6:00pm. Use names and quotes from these people. You know stir the pot some.

By kimberly

May 4, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

One of the provisions of the abortion bill passed by the Georgia General Assembly this year is that, in addition to waiting 24-hours, a pregnant woman will be advised that under Georgia law, the father of her baby is REQUIRED to provide child support. This will help the woman better understand her options before making the decision she has already made.

The bill fails to mandate that these women ALSO be told that in order to secure an order for child support, and in order to ENFORCE an existing order for child support, she must FIRST give several thousand dollars to a lawyer, as NO JUDGE in Georgia will entertain a personal letter or phone call from a woman with no money who is not receiving court-ordered child support. They should also tell these women that, as previous posts have described, NO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER will do diddly-squat to get her a check.

I think these lawyers in the General Assembly should provide this service FREE OF CHARGE, since they voted for this ridiculous (and deceptive) change to the law.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Norman Norman Norman, I know you are joking because I’ve been laughing at you for a while. lol! While I think you may honestly believe half of what you say, I don’t hold anything against you, so joke away.

As far as your question goes, good one. I don’t think so! The industrial revolution would have ended the majority of slavery much like it diminished assembly and production lines. However, I don’t think black people, or any minority for that matter, would enjoy the rights that we do today.

Yes I would be worse off because now I can call you a racist, spit on you, step on you or whatever and not worried about you and your friends coming to my house in the Martha Stewart spring collection to lynch me. If you did, I would just exercise my right to shoot you where you stand. So yeah, I’m much better off. LOL. It’s funny cuz us black folk find you fetching too!

By norman

May 4, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

Give black women sharp knives and let them at their boyfriends unmentionable appendages. This would do more for everyone and at less cost.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Norman meant to say, give women sharp knives…

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

LASHELLE-I FEEL YOU. IT TOOK ME TWO YEARS TO GET MY ORDER ESTABLISHED. FIRST THEY KEPT CHANGING THE WORKER THEN THEY LOST THE APPLICATION AND I HAD TO REDO IT. THEN WHEN I WAS FINALLY GIVEN A PERMANENT WORKER,I GAVE HER EVERYTHING, SS#, ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER, EMPLOYER INFO. THEN WHEN THE PAPERWORK WENT OUT FOR HIM TO BE SERVED SHE SENT IT TO THE WRONG ADDRESS 4X THEN WHEN SHE SENT IT TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS IT HAD THE INCORRECT DOLLAR AMT SO IT HAD TO BE SENT AGAIN. BUT THE TOTAL TIME WAS TWO YEARS TO GET IT STARTED.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

Damn damn damn damn! shaking my head Is that what I really have to look forward to?? What county do you live in Taiwana?

By norman

May 4, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

No. Ben, I won’t give all women those knives!

By Jack

May 4, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

A rusty hacksaw blade would get the point across much better!

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

Tawaina-

I have often wondered why it takes so long for child support to get going. I don’t work inthe agency directly, so i don’t know their policy.
I’d be super ticked if I gave them all of the information and they still couldn’t “find” him.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

If you are not part of the problem, you don’t have to fear the solution Norman.

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

PAUL-YOUR COMMENT FROM 5-3-05 @1:51PM IS NOT FAIR TO ALL SINGLE MOMS. I HAVE WORKED SINCE I WAS FIFTEEN YRS OLD, I WAS MARRIED WHEN I HAD MY CHILDREN AND AT THE TIME OF MY SEPARTION I WAS MAKING ALMOST $15 AN HOUR. MY COMPANY CLOSED ITS DOORS AND I WAS UNEMPLOYED FOR TWO MONTHS. I ONLY TRIED TO GET DAYCARE ASST AND THEY TOLD ME I HAD TO BE ON AID TO GET THE DAYCARE ASST SO I DID THAT FOR TWO MONTHS. BUT I BELIEVE I HAD PD MY WAY FOR THAT ALREADY. SO YOU SEE PAUL ITS NOT ABOUT KEEPING YOUR LEGS CLOSED FOR EVERYONE JUST SOME. YES THERE ARE SOME WHO HAVE MULTIPLE KIDS AND LIVE OFF THE STATE BUT THATS WHEN THE STATE SHOULD SAY ENOUGH ALREADY. THEY CAN PULL YOUR EMPLOYMENT HISTORY WHENN YOU GO TO SIGN UP. WHEN I APPLIED THE CASE WORKER I HAD WAS TRYING TO GET ME TO WORK AT THE WELFARE OFFICE ONCE SHE SAW THE TYPES OF JOBS I’VE HAD.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

Akeya,

I am that “super ticked” woman you speak of.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

TAIWANA- Our govt. at work. See the reference in an earlier post about efficiency.

By Lola

May 4, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

norman - you are in rare form today! Well, not so rare considering how you usually enjoy throwing a few hardballs into the softball game. But even so, I still enjoy your posts. They make me laugh and sometimes, even make me think. You have turned reaction-fishing into a fine art. :)

Ben - your Martha Stewart comment almost made the water I’m drinking come through my nose from laughing so hard! :)

Taiwana - Jack is right. If you will turn off your “Caps Lock” button, your postings will be much easier on the eyes and it won’t sound like you’re shouting everything you write. Your posts are wonderful though, and I’m really happy that you’ve joined our blog. It is a new point of view and gives us all a glimpse into another angle on the topic.

LaShelle - it is ridiculous that you’re having to go to such lengths to try to get your ex to cough up what he owes! I wish there were an easier way to do it, that wouldn’t require so much legwork on your part. It sounds incredibly frustrating.

I have big warm fuzzies for everyone on here today. I’m feeling the love and I just want to tell you all that I appreciate each and every one of you for the intelligent contributions and differing points of view that you provide to me every day in this blog. Yeah, I know. I’m a sentimental gal. What can I do? :)

By Jack

May 4, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Keep yelling TAIWANA. WE HEAR YOU !!!

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Hell, I’d like to get Lashell and Tawaina in here for some assistance and kick some of these lazy wenches off…

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Amen Taiwana,

I’ve worked since I was 13 starting with volunteering. So, I made one mistake. I’ve moved on and now work full time, go to school full time, and raise my son. I would be more than content work part time and finish school to get a job where I wouldn’t need the assistance, but God forbid that happen because then the gov’t wouldn’t feel loved (or needed).

By Ben

May 4, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

I agree Lola, Norman is funny and does make you think. I’ve been laughing at him since I started reading the blog. lol

If I didn’t fear him getting me drunk and dragging me by chains for five miles behind his pickup, I’d invite him for a few beers. LMAO.

By Stan

May 4, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

No, no, no. Don’t cut the johnson off. There are some beautiful ones out there. Don’t make them suffer just because the brain of that person is inept.

By Lola

May 4, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Ben - you are HILARIOUS! The mental images your posts conjure up in my mind are classic. I’m glad you can see norman for who he is and take his postings with a grain of salt. He’s really not a bad fellow. Just loves using shock value!

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Jack, I do know about the caps but for my job I have to put everything in all caps and patients came in at any given time and I am pretty much typing inbetween patients. So please forgive me and if I have offended anyone. I apologize.

Bruce, some of the csr’s are slacker or have a heavy load and don’t get to check on things often but trying to get a supervisor is like pulling teeth now a days.

LaShelle, I live in Dekalb County.

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

We as citizens of Georgia have complained so much about government waste that Gov. Barnes is actually trying to cut some of the pork out of the budget. That means that there is not money to hire more caseworkers to help carry the load we presently have. I believe if state government would spend the extra money needed to chase down and force these dead beat dads to pay up, find and discontinue support, those absuing the system, they would find that in the long run that alone would help ease the pressure on the state budget in that area. Plus make life better for good people like Taiwana and Lashelle.

Akyea much respect to you and the job you do. Please remember you never know the difference you could make in the life of the next person you help. Take pride in your work because you DO make a difference.

By Crystal

May 4, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Some funny comments today. But, folks, I’m trying to watch the Braves and they are playing GOOD. Both the Jones boys have hit home runs. Sorry to change the subject. It is hard to keep up with the blog team AND the Braves wwhen both are playing par excellence.

By Kate

May 4, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

I think the bottom line here is “You gave birth to it, you look after it. If you can’t afford to look after it, don’t give birth to it. If you don’t want to look after it — too bad.”

Unless I got her pregnant, I don’t owe her a dime in child support. And that means whether I am her mother, her grandmother, her boss, her next door neighbour, or a resident of California. Merely having a baby does not entitle her to one penny of any income she did not earn, except that earned by the man that got her pregnant.

I can’t see what’s so difficult about that.

By Ben

May 4, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen him get a few people riled up, and it is funny Lola. People who REALLY think like that aren’t intelligent enough to form valid opinions and couldn’t articulate them without spewing pure hate or N bombs.

I enjoy a good game of devil’s advocate, or as you put it “reaction fishing.”

By Angie

May 4, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

LaShelle, it took me a year and a half to get my support order. He was in another state as well. The Child Support Enforcement Agency is who I used. Cost me $25 vs. $1000 for an attorney. Boy did I regret that decision. I had no representation in court, nor could I afford to go 4 states away to be at the hearings. (I was out of work at the time.) He misrepresented his income, lied about paying previous support, etc. He got credit for money he NEVER PAID and received a lesser monthly support order because he lied about his income. (I tried to appeal and have a letter from his employer showing he makes $20,000 more than he reported in court. But the judge said I couldn’t have an appeal hearing.) his attorney made it sound like I couldn’t be bothered to show up for court instead of the fact that I could not afford to travel there with my baby in tow and with no one to watch him in an unknown state while I went to court. I fought the local CSEA tooth and nail to get the case heard in Georgia but they said the other state has jurisdiction over him and so that’s where the case would have to be heard-even though thast meant he would have to travel 10 minutes from his new home to go to court and I would not be able to appear at the hearing for my son!!!

Anyway, if you go with the CSEA-which is cheap-make sure you have someone in court to represent you. The CSEA will NOT. Was told I couldn’t do anything for 3 yrs. It’s been 3 yrs now and I’m looking at either hiring a lawyer for a nice price or relying on the CSEA and the same thing happening again. (They failed to document his income among other errors. He does not have to help with insurance since he moved to another state and does not have to assist with daycare expenses.) If it was handled here in Georgia it wouldn’t have been as big a problem. out of state cases take longer. once the order was obtained I thought I’d start getting the support but it took time to get the paperwork into effect and have the employer get things started. And even thought the money comes out of his check (then sent to his state, then sent to Georgia, then sent to me) somehow the money still has been late about 35-40% of the time!!! And once a week they make a deduction from the check I guess to cover the paperwork. I wish you the best of luck. I know how hard it is!

And having to leave your baby and go back to work goes against my maternal instincts. I wouldn’t liked to be one of those stay at home moms too! All the best to you and your little one(s).:)

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

Hey, thanks Akeya but where were you when I needed the help=:) If i’m in that situation again i’ll ask for you directly (let’s pray that I never have to though. However, if they are hiring i’d love to work there.

LaShelle, Keep your head up girl. It’s a long, hard frustrating, never ending stuggle. The one thing that i’m glad to hear you say is that you are able to go to school. I have been trying to finish my degree but I don’t have a evening babysitter for me to take some night classes. When I say my prayers I will keep you in them though.

By Andrea

May 4, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

I’m am so sick of women like Akeya and Taiwana blaming everyone, except themselves for the choices they have made in their lives. I’m sick of their foul-mouthed ignorant children who will probably grow up to be the next generation of gangbangers, drug addicts, and criminals. They should practice reliable birth control or don’t have sex at all. I’m not saying that their is no moral obligation to help impoverished children, because as a society we have the obligation to protect children. But every social problem can’t be resolved by the government. Personal responsiblity and accountabilty is the answer. If you can’t FEED THEM DON”T BREED THEM!!

By Ben

May 4, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Uh-Ohhh.. Here we go! Hide the knives.

By Angie

May 4, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

I meant to say that I would have liked to have been one of those stay at home moms. But wasn’t afforded that luxury! had to work for a living.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

Um Andrea- I don’t think you have the right person. You need to re-read ALL of my posts.

Also, I don’t remember Tawaina blaming anyone but her ex for her probs.

Maybe you should skim back over the posts…

By lozen

May 4, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this

Well, Norman. I could say the same thing. It’s just hard for me to imagine someone who is so intelligent about religion can still paint all people of color with the same brush and not even think it’s racist to do so. “I am beginning to think maybe some of those cranks who always complain about you may be on to something.”

By Angie

May 4, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

To the “don’t breed em if ya can’t feed em” person… it takes TWO people to create a child right? A man & a woman? You’re putting sole responsibility onto the woman for getting pregnant (all by herself no doubt). When the man skips out leaving her with the children what is she supposed to do if she is in a situation where she is un employed and can’t afford childcare so she can go on job interviews??? Your attitude is very harsh and lacking in compassion. In your opinion if it were up to YOU then you would help NO ONE right???

It’s hard to be a single mom especially when that was not your choice and the man takes a hike. Walk a mile in our shoes before you spout the ‘breed em’ line!

By mel

May 4, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

There will always be people who work the system and get over. I had classmates in college who were applying for PA, just becaue they didn’t want to have to work and study. I have no idea how they did it, but there was a small ring. There’s no way to regulate honesty and morality. But there are people (not just mothers) who are down on their luck and need help for awhile. We can’t punish them for the ignorance of the ones who get over. So what do we do? I think before we even talk about subsidizing child care, we need to revamp the current system and put some regulations in place. P.S. Norman, you crack me up! I see your kind driving around all the time in your pickup trucks with the rebel flag a-wavin’!

By Lola

May 4, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

Geez, Andrea. That was harsh and completely inaccurate. Neither Akeya nor Taiwana has asked for society to pay for their children and don’t fit into the peg-hole you described. Read all the posts before you spout off like that against two good people.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Angie- I am a single mom and I agree with Michael Jackson’s lyric “if you can’t feed ya’ baby, yeah, yeah, then don’t have a baby, yeah, yeah”. I’m a single mother dealing with a boyfriend whose biological clock is ticking louder than any woman’s I know. I also know how to protect myself and not get caught up in the bull of thinking that any man is always going to be around. There is always a glimmer of skepticism that I hold close to me to keep me from spreading my legs and popping out more babies that I can take care of alone. There are single mothers who are working and trying who need assistance, but who are still involving themselves in relationships that may leave them with another child.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

Akeya,

I’d be in and out of school in two years or less and never need the help again! I’m a pre-med major and would have no problem being a nurse to pay the rest of my way through school. Hell when I’m done, I’ll even pay it forward and help to put another single mom through school so she doesn’t have to deal with the crap that I do!

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Man, the more we blog the more I see that these problems are way deeper than just welfare queens, corporate welfare, and the other bunk we’ve been spouting. A lot of this has to do with what values a person is instilled with, self-esteem, fear of loneliness, and other emotional/psychological issues that make us do the things that we do.

By mel

May 4, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

Akeya, since you have insight, I have a question. In your dealings with these women, can any of them tell you why they continue to have more children? I know that no one class, race, or creed of people is more fertile than another, so I ask this sincerely. What makes these women so different from the single moms who have one child, maybe two, and realize that it’s hard and they don’t want to do it again? Maybe if we get to the crux of that issue, we can begin to educate.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

Andrea and Kate,

You have both been deemed ignorant and must sit in the corner with Norman Bates. You’re both dismissed as well!

By wwwanderer

May 4, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

Guys/Gals, public education is not free, ANYWHERE, where do you think 50% of your property taxes (State/Georgia)go????? On top of that you can any number of fees that can add hundreds if not thousands/year to your childrens education.

By Lola

May 4, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

You’re right, Akeya. There’s a lot more to this than just what we’re seeing on the surface, and I suspect that some of the more passionate responses on here are a result of personal experiences or a deeply ingrained value system.

As for Mel’s question, I would guess that the ones who keep on having the kids are the ones who have figured out how to “play” the PA system to their own advantage. Still, any woman who CHOOSES to have child after child and knowingly subjects them to living in poverty, is not a very noble woman or a good mother in my book.

By Akeya

May 4, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Mel- one 27 year old with 7 kids and no job told me that she chose to have all of those children at this point in time because she just wanted to. She pays 0 rent on a 5 bedroom house built in 2003.

One 35 year old has 14 children. She pays 0 rent on a 6 bedroom house, fairly new. She is not working. She destroys every house in which she has lived. She states that she just “keeps havin’ em.”

Another 21 year old has 4 kids, 0 rent, not working and no work history, no excuse…

The list goes on and on Mel. Those are only 3 out of my caseload of about 420 families. We’re not even talking about my coworker, or other agencies county,state, and nationwide!!

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

Those are the mothers who need have be court ordered hysterectomies.

By Rita

May 4, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

Interesting conversations today. Akeya, LaShell and Taiwana: ya’ll need to get together and start a single moms support group (can’t remember is all are deKalb cty). Unfortunately, I’m no longer in state so I’ll just send my love your way.

On a slightly different subject (since I see a lot men on here): Visitation—what is the deal with that guys? Why can’t most of these men get past whatever “mama” drama they complain about and start spending positive time with these KIDS!?!

Throwing it out there…any takers?

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Finding a happy medium that everyone can live with will be difficult. But I have faith we, if we really want too, can find it.

One thing is the churches are going to have to step up to the plate and start doing what they are called to do. Helping the poor and widowed.

Second, the government is going to have to find a way to stop the waste and abuse of the system.

Third, dead beat dads are going have to be held accountable.

Forth, education has to become a priority in this state/country.

By Mara

May 4, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

I’m not particularly in favor of the taxpayers footing the bill for daycare. I would, however, be willing to chip in on free birth-control for everyone. I’d be happy to have some revenue earmarked for research for a male birth-control pill. In this day and age, even if your primary means fails, birth control is safe, relatively simple, and mostly reliable. Whether it be unaffordable emotionally, spiritually, financially or time-wise, one shouldn’t birth children one can’t support on your own. Even in situations where it is a couple breeding, tragedy may strike and you’d be alone.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Rita,

It’s because it’s mostly “baby daddy” drama.

By Rita

May 4, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

One comment/observation/insight about the reason some of these women continue to have children is that is their thing they are “good” at. For a person with lots of resources (like everyone on this blog), it seems ridiculous to keep having children that you obviously can’t care for without gov’t asst. But their “intelligence” as many of you have noted is “social service red-tape” genius and quite frankly, an amazing ability to pool resources and a stretch a dollar.

Which is why education is so important. The higher your educational achievement, the more likely your self esteem is tied to something else besides making babies and raising kids. A lot of these kids ended up adding to society’s ills, but look how many are also represented in professional athletes, the arts (especially music), criminal enterprise (drug dealers and gang bangers display the same skills as corporate execs).

How do we turn this around? I’ve heard enough complaints and negativity comments. Let’s hear some concrete solutions. There’s a lot of collective intelligence on this blog—people, your thoughts?

By Rita

May 4, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

One comment/observation/insight about the reason some of these women continue to have children is that is their thing they are “good” at. For a person with lots of resources (like everyone on this blog), it seems ridiculous to keep having children that you obviously can’t care for without gov’t asst. But their “intelligence” as many of you have noted is “social service red-tape” genius and quite frankly, an amazing ability to pool resources and a stretch a dollar.

Which is why education is so important. The higher your educational achievement, the more likely your self esteem is tied to something else besides making babies and raising kids. A lot of these kids ended up adding to society’s ills, but look how many are also represented in professional athletics, the arts (especially music), criminal enterprise (drug dealers and gang bangers display the same skills as corporate execs) and just regular middle and working class professions.

How do we turn this around? I’ve heard enough complaints and negativity comments. Let’s hear some concrete solutions. There’s a lot of collective intelligence on this blog—people, your thoughts?

By Lola

May 4, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Mara - I’m afraid that men simply wouldn’t be as motivated as women when it comes to taking a birth control pill every day. After all, they aren’t the ones who can get pregnant, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of effort from them on the part of making sure they aren’t fathering a bunch of children they can’t support. It’s too easy for them to run away from the responsibility and then the woman is stuck raising the child on her own. I think birth control is unfortunately always going to be the woman’s responsibility since it is women who have the most to lose by an unwanted pregnancy. Just my thinking, anyway.

By TB

May 4, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Face it, most people do not value family anymore. A nuclear family is a man and a woman with children. Our society has allowed this family to become almost extinct. 85% of the criminals in our jails were raised in fatherless homes. What does this say about the importance of a father? I understand that some of these women have married and had relationships go bad. What was the guy like before you married him? Were there no indications that he would not take care of his children? Did you ever talk about children and family goals? I understand that some women want to go to college, medical school, etc., but if you have kids you must put them first. Don’t count on funds from others to help you out. Get a school loan and pay it back just like the rest of us. I also realize that it takes two to tango, but women are in control of their own bodies (unless raped). Say NO. Have some self control. Yes the man is responsible, but he can’t get pregnant. If you are a woman realize before you lay down that you and only you are responsible for what you are about to do. STOP and THINK. Get to know someone really well before you marry them. Consider similar upbringings. Have something in common with your spouse. And for those of you that don’t realize it child care is already subsidized by our government. I believe all welfare and child care subsidies should be cut off completely. There are many people in this country that have never collected a dime from these programs. They made it. Quit making excuses. Educate your children from day one about work ethics. Parents are failing. Morals no longer exist.

By Rita

May 4, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

my apologies for the spelling errors and double post…writing at work/speed writing on this blog (my work writing is a little better and will be edited by someone else…)

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Lola,

I agree with you. There’s a saying that goes ‘mama’s baby, daddy’s maybe’ and I never believed that until my son’s father decided not to do what he promised to for the five years we were together.

By norman

May 4, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Bruce: Barnes is no longer our governor!

Iozen: You liberals have no sense of humor and need to cover your a…..s with political correctness. I have never been politically correct. In High School up North I defended the Confederacy and drove the teacher crazy but I always got A+ so what could she do? I was joined by only one other boy, but later I found out his uncle was in the KKK.

When trying to unload my car and get groceries up the steps of my town house without breaking those cheap bags PUBLIX gives you and dropping everything, I shout out: damn, Lincoln freed the slaves and now we are all slaves. I could use a slave right now! This outrages my wife who is still guiltly about having an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy and for having gone to segregated schools — a good thing, since she got a good public education which thanks to integration is now impossible in the South and in much of the North as well.

So you can continue to count on me to shout out the unwelcome truth from time to time. Cheers.

Ben: It is wise of you not to invite me for a beer!

By stephanie stith

May 4, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

i believe that offering some support for all families needing chidcare is better than simply offering support for just one group. childcare across the board is expensive, and finding quality childcare is even more expensive. I have a four year old that needs childcare. i was quoted prices ranging from 150.00 a week to 90.00 a week. when your’re working two jobs just to maintain food and ultilities, childcare seems like a luxury. because i do not meet the income quidelines i don’t qualify for help but i cannot pay that fee myself. and before everyone look down their noses at me and tell me that i should have thought of that before i had her, let me interject, it is my niece. i have custody of my niece’s two children and i struggle to provide for them like they were my own. so supporting childcare for all families evens the playing field for all,

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

As for suggestions, Rita, I have a few ideas of my own. One is a non-profit program for single parents (men and women) who are trying to honestly do something with their lives. The other is a pay it forward idea where program participants are helped to get on their feet and get an education and the only repayment is that they join the program as an alumni and help someone else to do the same. Like you said, we all sit and complain about what’s wrong with everything; if you’re for it you’re typically (but not always) complaining about who’s fault it is; if you’re against it, you’re complaining about the system. Don’t b*** about it unless you have a solution.

By Lola

May 4, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

TB - good post. A lot of sad truths about the state of things, but you hit the nail on the head.

norman - I don’t think it’s segregation that brought our education levels down to where they are. It is the political correctness and legal inability of teachers and administrators to discipline students anymore. There is no recourse that can be taken against a disruptive student, and the kids know that. The authority has been stripped from those in charge, and it has rendered them helpless against kids who would rather act up than learn.

By norman

May 4, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

HERE’S IS MORE

My wife comes from a family half out of Tennessee Williams and half out of William Faulkner. Her grandmother feared blacks because one of them murdered her friend. When she found out that her husband, a lawyer and the town’s mayor, was running around with a black whore she went out on the street and tried to shoot him. For that she was sent for observation to Milledgeville. He naturally wasn’t sent anywhere!

Black, African American, colored, Negro. When I was growing up we were taught to call those people Colored, which was then considered better than what we might have called them. Then Negro was de rigueure. Finally black, which seems to me more offensive than colored, came into fashion. Afro-American is ok except the African connection is 400 years out of date. An Afro-American is no more an African than when a colleague many years ago called people Italo-Americans, by which he meant they knew nothing about the real Italy or real good Italian food, that they were just Sicilian or Neapolitan peasants, not Italians, by which he mean Romans, Tuscans, or Lombards. But I go with the flow and do not call them Colored any more — when is the NAACP going to change its name, and the United Negro College fund?

It is true Aleyka that only in the USA are people of small black heritage considered black. Not in Brazil or the Carribean where they also had black slavery. Why were plantation owners in America gainst calling them anything but black but not owners in Spanish, Portuguese or British colonies. I don’t know. But I consider everyone with noticeable black features, black. I was once introduced to a girl from New Orleans with the last name of Charpentier but I spotted immediately that she was not pure French. The same with a fellow from there named Dubois.

Enough for now, Iozen?

By Lola

May 4, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

Those are wonderful ideas, LaShelle! I love the Pay it Forward concept and wish that there were more of that in the world. How magnificent that would be!

stephanie stith - God bless you for taking on your niece’s children as your own. I agree that childcare help would be a great thing. I have an 11 month old daughter in daycare and it is a substantial expense, no doubt. The problem lies in that not all families have children, and they (rightfully so) don’t want to pay for daycare for everyone else. Some of our daycare expenses were deductible for 2004, and that helped. I also have an FSA, which makes the first $5,000 in daycare for the year tax-free. That makes me ineligible for the daycare deduction, but again, it helps. There are churches and other faith-based groups who offer low-cost daycare, and those are another good option. I don’t know that there is any easy or right answer.

By LaShelle

May 4, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Norman,

Did you not know that in Louisiana Mulattos exist as well or was that part of your education selectively forgotton.

By Bruce

May 4, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks Norman it is sometimes hard to work and participate at the same time.

By Crystal

May 4, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

The Braves WON.

I don’t see any other winners here. Maybe confession is good for the soul. Therefore blogs are really therapy. And cheaper than professionals. I think some folks started worrying too late in life. But—better late than never I suppose.

Anyway, the Braves WON! They know how to play the game.

By lozen

May 4, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

Oh Norman, what earthly difference does it make? Cut me with my Scotch-Irish name; I bleed red and feel pain. Cut the woman whose name is Charpentier and she bleeds red and feels pain. We’re all just people.

By Jack

May 4, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Norman, Did you take a nice pill today? You’re not as vitrol as usual. (Just kidding, you make the blog more fun)

By lozen

May 4, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

Crystal, Crystal you better be careful when it rains that you don’t drown with your nose so up in the air! Can you not feel good about yourself unless you’re putting down other people? How sad.

By Whiley

May 4, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

I’m for Govt. mandated birth control for men. A very large suppository that the woman gives him weekly. Yes, I realized that it would still be the woman’s responsibility for birth control, but this way the uncomfortable aspects of it will be shared.

By norman

May 4, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

you are right, LaShelle, Louisiana was different and did have mulattos. Part of the non-British heritage I guess.

Funny, Jack, you think I am milder today. That proves that things which may or may not seem racist do not bother you as much as religious controversy. Look to it!

By norman

May 4, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

Charpentier and Dubois were being inauthentic I guess; that bothered me.

By TAIWANA

May 4, 2005 05:31 PM | Link to this

This is to Andrea, first you need to read all the post before making comments. I know that it’s a long column of opinions but reading is FUN-DA-MENTAL. Let me break that down for you it would have been FUN for you to have read all of the post and get a little of DA (the)MENTALity of the speakers. I never blamed anyone for my circumstances, I didnt have children I couldnt feed. My husband and I were together for seven yrs before we were married and had children. I never thought he would have done the things he did for me to leave him nor did I ever imagine that if he couldnt have me then he wouldnt take care of his kids. If you would have read my posts you would have learned that I have worked since I was 15 yrs old and any assistance that I had asked for at the age of 27 yrs old I had well paid for in advance. My request was temporary and was for daycare asst while I looked for another JOB.

As for my children (yes, my children b/c I cant speak for other peoples kids or how they are raised) are very educated. My children are on the honor role at school, they have perfect attendance and are well mannered. I had old school parents and grand parents who didnt play and neither do I. Yes, some kids are foul but that doesnt mean they are that way b/c their parents received help from the state nor does that mean that their parents didint teach them anything. Some kids just steer off the wrong way. I know some parents are strick some are maybe too strick and their kids are horrible. I know some people who were too nice and their kids are horrible. Sometimes no matter what we do for our kids the turn into people we dont recognize. Then there are some whos parents didnt do didly squat and these children turn out to be exceptional. Botton line Andrea, think about both sides before you start to speak. You sound like you have alot for hate. Are you sure you werent looking in the mirror when you were typing your opinion. I wonder if your parents read your comment or when they look at you what goes through their mind?

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 07:35 AM | Link to this

applauding Taiwana STANDING OVATION!

By Lola

May 5, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

You go, Taiwana!

By Jack

May 5, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

Norman I don’t think you hate people because of their color. Thats racist. You probably hate people because of their religious beliefs. Which is fine by me. It hurts me not.

By Lyrazel

May 5, 2005 08:52 AM | Link to this

I have friends who want the following:

Cant say love factors with most of my senior friends when concerning this problem even if we are volunteers together. Certain stereotypes exist—like why so few jews on public assistance and so many rural whites are on PA in Georgia, Alabama, SC and Miss & Nebraska/ most of the ones who make such suggestions were not wealthy and got by doing without and are too proud of that fact—some mantras are prejudice and spite against NOT being able to get on PA.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

Norman, Norman, Norman, Never in a million years would I invite you out for a beer. I was JOKING! Not that I would be very worried about you trying to rig me to the back of your truck — You would be HARD pressed trying to do so.

I just enjoy reading the ignorance that you type everyday. You would be better off hanging out for your precious religion talk.

Just to play your game, every downfall of society you blame on us black folk is truly the white man’s fault. It may have happened 400 years ago, but the white man began the perpetual downfall of society with their greed, laziness and downright ignorance and now it’s back firing on them. Black men are uneducated because you made them that way. Hell, not 40 or 50 years ago black people were killed for knowing how to read — now you blame us for illiteracy. Not all that long ago the white men bred us like animals — now you ridicule us for a lack of family values. Not too long ago you made us work all day without pay — and now you have a hard time paying a decent minimum wage.

I may not necessarily prescibe to this way of thinking, but any person with an ounce of intelligence can see that the cycle was started by the white man’s greed and ignorance. For us Negroes, Coloreds, African-Americans or whatever you want to call us, it may take a few years to work through it. Yeah we might still be a little bitter even though it was 400 years ago, but you just took your foot off our neck 50 years ago.

By Jack

May 5, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel that sounds good but it will never happen. The politicians don’t have the gonads to do it. It would cost them votes.

By norman

May 5, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Ben: you ought to be grateful for slavery. Otherwise those blacks who would have been left in Africa would have had a life worse than American slavery. They would have been eaten by their own kind, sold to Arabs (Arabs, I say!) or killed by wild beasts.

Be grateful for small favors which in time become large.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel,

Interesting suggestions, although I agree with a few. The only one that seems flawed in it’s effectiveness is #6, I know many women still get pregnant on Norplant. It’s not very effective at all. My aunt’s friend got pregnanat twice on it.

By Joycelyn Peeples

May 5, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

Yes, I think that it’s time for the government to get involved in these single mother’s lives, because it makes it less harder on a mother to provide for her child or children. It will take off some of the stress of handling everyday life, trying to make ends meet from time to time. If the father isn’t there to provide for his family, then that’s when the government should try and help out some of these single, hard working mothers.

By norman

May 5, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Cobb Co. has just lost its request to dely removing those anti-evolution disclaimers from biology textbooks in school. Good. Now students can learn that they are indeed descended from monkeys. Who in the South could have doubted this anyway?

A Church of England bishop attacked Charles Darwin by asking him whether it was on his mother’s or his father’s side that he was descended from apes. I don’t know if Darwin replied but the good bishop thereby only proved himself descended from an a*.

By Joycelyn Peeples

May 5, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Yes, I think that it’s time for the government to get involved in these single mothers lives, because it makes it less harder on a mother to provide for her child or children. It will take off some of the stress of handling everyday life, trying to make ends meet from time to time. If the father isn’t there to provide for his family, then that’s when the government should try and help out some of these single, hard working mothers. My mom was a single parent for 19 years of my life. She struggled to make ends meet, but we were very fortunate, me and her. I know how hard it is out here today.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

You sound like the “if a tree falls in the woods” guy. If my father was my uncle and if green was really blue, who knows what would be going on.

I’m just thankful red is really red. Whew! Thanks for the slavery Norman and everyone else. My world is a better place because of it.

Or maybe Norman, if you wouldn’t have taken the strongest of our people from their homeland to build yours, MAYBE we could have built Africa to be what the United States is today, and we would be watching people from Ohio killing people from Michigan because Michigan has more lakes. Or people from Massachusetts waging war on New Jersey because they have different accents.

Maybe!

By Jack

May 5, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Didn’t the head of the African tribes gladly give their people up?

By norman

May 5, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

David Broder just mentioned that of the ten congressmen too busy to vote on the budget three were from the Black Caucus. Does that make Broder a racist, since he criticized the blacks, who cannot be criticized or they will scream racism, refer to slavery, forget that slavery started with their own people selling one another, and that every black nation in the world today, from Haiti (where slavery was abolished in 1800) to the African states are the most despicably poor and oppressive in the world. What do you think Benjamin?

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

See Ben, I knew there was a reason that I liked you. :0) Norm, honey, maybe you should back down for a bit, looks like you’ve met your match.

By Jack

May 5, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

Norman threw out the bait and Ben took a bite.

By norman

May 5, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

La Shelle: Ben doesn’t know his place.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Norman,

Apparently neither do you…

By norman

May 5, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

Examples of anti-black racism: 1. Note that the reason black kids have weird names is that black parents cannot spell. Oprah’s real name comes from the Bible — Orpah — but her parents could not spell, or perhaps even read. 2. Blacks are more subject to diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, and other physical disabilities because they abuse their bodies and not because health facilities won’t take them in. 3. Black women are the most impossible to work with because they think every white employee is out to get their job. 4. The difference between the cars the black bourgeoisie drives and the black underclass drives is that the former drive newer Lincolns and Cadillacs. 5. It is hard to tell one black from another because they are all black. 6. Blacks make terrible housekeepers because they wash windows with vinegar and old newspapers, with the newsprint left on the sills. 7. Black women cannot iron shirts — their men don’t wear shirts anyway. 8. Blacks go to church a lot but it doesn’t seem to change their behavior at all.

By Bruce

May 5, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

Please be careful Ben, Norman uses his hatred for everyone and everything to draw you in. Anger will be your next stop and he will be laughing at you. No wonder Savannah is in such a deplorable state.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

To the contrary Norman, I am very aware of my place. Fortunately, my “place” has nothing to do with you, or Jack (the peanut gallery’s cheerleader)! Yes Jack, the tribal leaders probably did give them up, but you’d be hard pressed to put up much of a fight if you’re holding a spear and I have gun. I’d have that duel with you or anybody else anyday.

There’s a HUGE difference, which you obviously don’t understand, between what he said and what you are saying. He mentioned that 10 Congressmen were too busy to vote and of those 10 three were black. That’s not racism, it’s an observation. He doesn’t blame the deficit on black people because three of them didn’t vote. He doesn’t say social security is an issue because the black Congressmen didn’t vote. He doesn’t say that Congress is all jacked up because three black Congressmen didn’t vote. Note the distinction between your ignorant observations compared to Broder’s.

And with your reasoning,I could blame all that’s wrong in Africa on YOUR own observations. If our strongest weren’t taken away, the Frederick Douglass’, MLKs and Malcolms may have been in Africa sorting out the mess their. And with our strongest we could have fought to end the oppression. Again Norman, JUST MAYBE! What IF.

No one here is screaming racism, especially from my end of the keyboard. I don’t blame your, or anyone else’s, prejudice for anything that happens in my life. I just said I can see why some people scream. Yeah Jack, I took the bait, but I’ll never hang on anybody’s mantle!

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Honey, I could give you just as many examples of anti-white racism but that would make me just as ignorant as you.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

It amazes me that people actually engage Norman to a certain extent.

Anyway, Lyrazel- I like your suggestions. These are mine (some of which I got the idea from your earlier postings tee-hee)

1) Criminals convicted of violent crimes are given one meal per day, preferably ramen noodles, potted meat, and vienna sausages. Powered milk or water to drink. Criminals convicted of other crimes will be given 2 meals per day, consisting of tuna, carrots, and milk or water. Tattoos and anything else that requires money (weights, ink for tattoos, and monies used for other recreational activities) will be outlawed. Donated books will be the only activity allowed.

2) recipients of public assistance (FS, TANF, S8, other) will be required to volunteer to receive all services. Also, they will need to choose one program and will not be allowed to abuse all programs at once. If they commit fraud in one program it should carry over to the other programs and they should be termianted from all programs. The volunteer hours would be based on the amount of assistance received from each program they benefit from. We have several clients that receive food stamps, tanf, section 8, medicaid, etc. These people are allowed to take advantage of all of these programs while others who are truly working, struggling, and in need are left by the wayside.

3) Anyone on public assistance will be required to sign a contract that they will not have any additional children other than the children they come onto the program with. If they have additional children while on the program they will be terminated from one or all of the programs.
(Of course we tend to forget that they Hyde amendment made it unlawful for medicaid to pay for abortion. Also, the medicaid funding for birth control was yanked a few years back. I guess they’d rather pay for more hospital bills and monthly medicaid for 17 years instead of a one time abortion payment.)

4) No ILLEGAL immigrants will be allowed to have public assistance nor the legal children of illegal citizens.

5) If there is more than one able-bodied adult in a household on public assistance who are not working the adult members not working will be terminated from the assistance. We have several families with 2+ able bodied adults in the household and the only work going on is childbirth.

LYRA- they are required to come in every six months to review their medicaid case already.

6) Those who violate program rules will be terminated automatically.

7) Any family on public assistance that attempts to add additional children to their households MUST show that they are financially able to take on more children. This is another problem that we have here at my agency. Low income families are constantly adding more children from relatives to their cases, which costs more money because they, most often than not, need larger units.

8) A GED is required to receive any public assistance.

Give me aminute and I’ll think of more.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Thanks Bruce, but far better men than Norman have tried to draw me to anger, unsuccessfully of course. I just like pointing out his ignorance and narrow-mindedness. Which I seem to be wasting my time doing because he’s a DAMN good job of it himself, evident by his 9:43 post.

And for your information, vinegar and newspaper works better on windows because it doesn’t leave streaks or fuzzy from paper towels or rags. Everybody knows that! But I prefer Windex and newspaper.

By norman

May 5, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

Bruce: what deplorable state is Savannah in? At least, unlike metro Atlanta, it is AUTHENTIC.

By Jack

May 5, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

Oh. Now I’m a cheerleader. Bless your heart Ben.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Of couse some of my suggestions would be different for elderly and/or disabled clients.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Sorry about the oxymoron (illegal citizens)

By Tim

May 5, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

I do have to say Norman has a point… I mean Savannah does have Paula Dean… man I LOVE her!! :)

Ben… just know that not all crackers think like Norman… I mean I look at it this way… I wouldn’t be hear if it weren’t for black people… I mean you know what they say about southern white family trees… shake it too hard and a black person (they say a word I am not particularly fond of) will fall out… well I am glad they are in my tree somewhere… without my soul blood I probably wouldnt have my nice full lips (I mean come on how many white people actually have lips) and my ability to dance :)

By norman

May 5, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

Blacks and whites are equal in at least one thing. They are equally fooled by the fraudulent claims of Christianity. Not that I prefer Black Muslims, even though they dress well and look good. A Muslim is a Christian who has been mugged by Hellenism.

George Will, usually a pain in the a*, has a good column today on why Christians should be more tolerant of non-believers. The real point, though, is that Protestant Americans are finally realizing that they are no longer dominant and they don’t like it. They will soon take up burning people or putting them in stocks.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

Thanks Jack! Reading your comments when I did, and where they happened to be posted reminded of the Tom and Jerry Cartoon where the little dog is bouncing around, get em Spike, tear em apart. lol! I wasn’t attacking you, just thought it was funny.

Oh yeah, I know a lot of people that go to church alot whose behavior doesn’t really change. As a matter of fact, we all know a few people who LEAD the catholic church whose behavior denounces the hate and ignorance they themselves teach. So again, your observation is a little slanted!

By Ben

May 5, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Tim, LOL. At least you got something out of the deal. I think Norman needs to go shake the tree. Going back and forth with him makes me think about the Dave Chappelle skit!

By Tim

May 5, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Ben… yeah I got a couple things out of the deal :)… Norman needs to shake a lot more than the tree lol

By Ben

May 5, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

I’m not even gonna ask!

By norman

May 5, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

Tim: Paula Deen is my neighbor and she spells her name DEEN.

So you like that black soul food whites have adopted?

I prefer to eat at Elizabeth’s on 37th Street. The only problem there is with so many brothers nearby your car might get stolen!

By Ben

May 5, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Mother and Son’s is the best soul food joint in Savannah, but I don’t know where she moved to.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

Tim, love it! i started to post something yesterday about what great dancers black people are compared to white people (esp. white men) who, in general, just have no rhythm. I’m convinced there’s black blood in my family too! And I appreciate it. Norman, how sad to think someone with a french name is inauthenic because they’re not “pure” french. None of us are pure anything and that’s very good. If we were, we’d all have the problems you see in purebred dogs! I am part spanish, part german, part irish, part scot, part cherokee and who knows what else. A friend of mine said “White people are colorless.” Ben, I know from personal experience all the things Norman said at 9:43 are hogwash. At least we know that’s pure… pure hogwash.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

Mother and Son’s is the best soul food joint in Savannah, but I don’t know where she moved to. And yeah, be careful of those car stealing brothers. But I would rather have my car stolen cuz the insurance will pay for. But if the corporate non-brothers steal my retirement fund, I SOL. Oh how the scales tip sometimes.

By norman

May 5, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

Paula hasn’t moved away — just further east on Congress St.

A recent magazine said Paula’s place was fun but for the real thing go to Mrs. Wilkes’ restaurant.

But I don ‘t dig that greasy food. I like to start with a little caviar, then some She Crab Soup. Then an entree, cheese and crackers, lots of wine. I don’t go for the fatback, the barbedue, the g******* chicken and all that s///t.

Blacks don’t know food. Only we aristos do. The FDA should ban black food. While we’re at it, why not ban blacks period?

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

Let’s see how many extremely bored people respond to that idiocy…

By Ben

May 5, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

At least when the brothers steal your car Norman your insurance will cover it. But when you non-brothers steal pensions, people are SOL.

Lozen, I know his garbage was hogwash. But I still think newspaper is better to clean the windows than a rag or paper towel. Call me crazy.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

If all you ‘aristos’ know such great food then why is that you can’t see your pecker for your beer gut?

By Tim

May 5, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

well I honestly don’t care how she spells her name… she is a hoot! :) and yes Norman I LOVE soul food… seeing as I was raised on it… must be another black trait my family picked up… cus my Nana can cook some soul food just as well as any sistah (I think secretly she is a sistah though) out there :)

Ben… I have not had the opportunity to go to The Lady and Son’s but I really want to sometime… that woman knows how to cook… and good soul food is worth gettin your car stolen for

lozen… really the only white men that know how to dance are gay white men… and when they dance they turn into black women HAHAHA :)… and yes I am glad I am not a purebreed either… cus I got the good characteristics of different nationalities (dang I am going to sound full of myself now!! lol)… big lips from black people… high cheek bones, strong jaw line, and tan skin from my cherokee indian grandfather… and smooth skin from my european heritage… all those make me the hot lil tamale I am today hahahahahaha :)

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

And Akeya, yep, I am bored as all hell :o(

By Ben

May 5, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

I have a better idea. Ban IGNORANT people. Let’s start with the Aristos (Snobs) and their nasty a## caviar and she crab soup. No wonder the seem like they have something stuck up their a##, they are constipated. And I guess we can explain the attitude — they are HUNGRY!

By Crystal

May 5, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

About the topic:

This morning I scanned the internet about welfare programs in different states. There’s a ton of material; new laws, reorganization, etc. The general conclusion seems to be —correct one problem and it causes another one. California and Minnesota have tried and tried along with other states.

Akeya, it seems you are in a host of workers who see the problems and keep trying and attempting to do something better. Good luck! And don’t give up. A lot of people need you, the truly needy and the frustrated tax payers.

By Tim

May 5, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

LaShelle… hahahahaha… that is another why someone should be thankful if there is some black in the family tree somewhere hahahahahahaha :)

By texas holdem

May 5, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Please check out some relevant pages in the field of texas holdem texas holdem http://www.tomumberg2004.com/texas-holdem.html …

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

Lol @ Tim, this is true, very true…

By ANDREA

May 5, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

By Andrea This is for Norman, do you take a mean and stupid pill every mornning when you wake up? Do you actually know any black americans? I doubt it seriously. This is for Akeya, what kind of name is that anyway? There is no such thing as biracial children. If you have one black ancestor you are considered black in the USA. For all practical purposes your son is black. He will realize that as he gets older. I owe an apology to Taiwana.I am not hateful at all.A lot of people think the same way i do, they just don’t have the courage to say it.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

I just have to tell you guys something! I’m reading Ancient Rome, A Military and Political History by Mackay. He points out how military events undermined the political institutions of the Republic, and how military and economic pressures in the 3rd and 4th centuries eventually led to the downfall of the empire. Sound familiar anybody? It feels to me as if I’m reading the future of the U.S. It’s giving me goosebumps!

By norman

May 5, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

lozen: long before the problem with the Empire there was a problem in the Republic with miscegenation.

We finally understand Tim: no pure blood at all.

By Tim

May 5, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

that’s right Norman… my blood will be the downfall of America… dang that feels good… didn’t know I had so much power… my plan to rule the world is finally working… baaaahaaaahaaaa (evil laugh lol)

By Ben

May 5, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

So then Lozen is right Norman! Us miscegenationers are taking over. Have you noticed the increase in interracial couples!? Maybe I need to rally the secret meeting I spoke about yesterday. Wage war against evil and prejudice and proclaim my allegiance to spreading miscegenation through the world. We’ll start here at home and conquer white women, those who dare resist must live with Norman and eat caviar and she crab crap. Then we’ll move to Asia and start our own island hopping campaign in Japan .. Ohh I can see it now.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Andrea- Akeya is a Ugandan name. There are names that come from other countries. I can only assume that you don’t know that because you rarely peek your head out of your a*.

My son is biracial. He is of two races. Operative prefix here BI. If you do not understand it in English I can explain it to you in Spanish. At this point I’m sure that your level of understanding is that of a 2 year old, which is an insult to my two year old son.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Ouch! I’m an Akeya fan!

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

LMAO, you guys are some sick people, lol…

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this

Ben, Lashell-

sigh I can only assume that they are just trying to get our goats. The only place I would expect to hear such ignorance is in Idaho where there’s the highest concentration of Aryans.

By norman

May 5, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Ben: don’t start in Japan. they don’t like n…….s there.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

Crystal- my coworker keeps urging me to write an article about it. I’m seriously thinking about it, but there are just too many people that are oblivious to what really goes on. I will be attacked for being cold-hearted before anyone takes a good, long look at the lack of integrity in social service programs right now.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

I beg to differ my David Duke wanna be friend. I actually lived there for three years and they LOVED me — N…..r or not. So I’m afraid you are WRONG again. If they don’t like anybody it’s Americans, and that is older the older generations that are still around from WWII. The younger generations are infatuated with American culture, and you know what’s funny about that — they think all white people in America walk around with guns in holsters like the cowboy days. They are very fascinated with the black culture, and unfortunately are very big on MTV. Any questions?

By kimberly

May 5, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Please don’t make this white gurrl go live with Norman and eat aristo food! No, no, no! I make some good collard greens! I cook the dogs**t out of ‘em, then cook ‘em five hours more. Lots of salt & vinegar. I always put hot sauce on the table for the chicken! Don’t leave me with Norman, pleeeeeaaaaaase!

By norman

May 5, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

Ben: did you tell them you were mixed blood?

You know, you and Tim could open up a restaurant for mixed bloods. Shades of South Africa.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

We’ll have to talk about the overcooking of the collards and the salt and vinegar, but we may spare you this time.

By kimberly

May 5, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

But collards are bitter & chewy unless you cook ‘em all day, aren’t they? Like some people, they get sweet and tender under the abuse….

By Ben

May 5, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Oh sorry Norman, I forgot to classify myself. Yes everybody, my name is Ben and I am biracial, oh sorry andrea, a black man with miscegenationing parents. I myself am miscegenationing as I am married to a white woman.

Wow, I feel better. I guess it was best to let everybody know I was of “mixed blood,” rather than let them identify me by my character. MLK had no idea of what he was talking about.

I guess you think the black women are going to turn me know because I am not with a black woman, huh, Norman?

By Ben

May 5, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

No my wife cooks them in chicken broth for about 30 minutes with diced ham. They don’t get bitter or soggy — but you still have to have the hot sauce.

By Crystal

May 5, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Akeya, I don’t think people would reject a substantive, non-politicized, documented report from a person who actually works in the field. Not many people want to subsidize deadbeats. But you would need to have proof. Also, to write such a much needed report might bring on lawyers or even a job loss. That last line is just a ‘worse case scenario’. Stay strong.

By norman

May 5, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Ben, how can you be sure your spouse is really white?

Many southerners are part Indian. And the same is true of New Englanders, especially if they are part French Canadian. Not to mention the Mexican admixture in the SW, most Mexicans having little really European blood. Gosh, this country is a mess.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

Well I’m pretty sure! I guess you’ll just have to trust me on this one.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

LOL BEN!!!

Hello. My name is Akeya and I am bicultural. My son is biracial AND bicultural. We only speak Spanish at home and eat a combination of American, Dominican, and Mexican food.

I am participating in miscengenation, as my boyfriend is not black.

Whew!! I feel so much better, Ben!! Don’t you? It’s like a load off of our backs! (lol, rolling eyes).

By norman

May 5, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

I would not be surprised to learn that George W. Bush is bi-racial. I always wondered about Barbara. She’s short, bowlegged, you fill in the rest.

Ben: for the first time you hesitate to answer a question and expect us to take your word for it. I suspect something here about your spouse.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Much Akeya. I’ve been holding that in for years and now I want the world to know! Despite my intelligence, morals and work ethic, deep down I am a black man with a white mother and a white wife. Afterall, THAT’S what matters.

I’m going to run the streets of downtown Atlanta butt naked shouting glory to my revelation! Be right back!

By Ben

May 5, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

Considering it posted 2 minutes after you asked, I would have to say there was no hesitation. I know she’s white, and she’s not from the south.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

lol Ben, you’re crazy!!!!

By Tony

May 5, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

An elderly carpenter was ready to retire. He told his employer-contractor of his plans to leave the house building business and live a more leisurely life with his wife enjoying his extended family.

He would miss the paycheck, but he needed to retire. They could get by. The contractor was sorry to see his good worker go and asked if he could build just one more house as a personal favor. The carpenter said yes, but in time it was easy to see that his heart was not in his work. He resorted to shoddy workmanship and used inferior materials. It was an unfortunate way to end his career.

When the carpenter finished his work and the builder came to inspect the house, the contractor handed the front-door key to the carpenter. “This is your house,” he said, “my gift to you.”

What a shock! What a shame! If he had only known he was building his own house, he would have done it all so differently. Now he had to live in the home he had built none too well.

So it is with us. We build our lives in a distracted way, reacting rather than acting, willing to put up less than the best. At important points we do not give the job our best effort. Then with a shock we look at the situation we have created and find that we are now living in the house we have built. If we had realized that we would have done it differently.

Think of yourself as the carpenter. Think about your house. Each day you hammer a nail, place a board, or erect a wall. Build wisely. It is the only life you will ever build. Even if you live it for only one day more, that day deserves to be lived graciously and with dignity. The plaque on the wall says, “Life is a do-it-yourself project.” Your life tomorrow will be the result of your attitudes and the choices you make today.

By Netbanker

May 5, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Rocky summed up the conservative position extremely well…”I do feel it is un-American to want this country to relenquish the status of World Super Power, because that is who we are.” Quite clearly for him, and seemingly most conservatives, it is ALL ABOUT CONTROL.

Doing the right thing, which kind of is a WWJD sort of item, isn’t important. It’s about retaining control of both the world and American citizens.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

My supervisor mixes a little peanut butter in with her collards and says it makes them taste great! I’m going to try it next time I cook collards.

By Crystal

May 5, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Will you guys please get over your “blood” feud? This is like watching a c** fight, that kind of fun. Go to a blood drive and give a unit. They don’t care how “mixed-up” you are or not. Only disease will disqualify you. Do us all a favor and move on.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, glad to see somebody paying attention and understanding what is really going on ;-)

By Tim

May 5, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Norman… actually I can’t cook… I can only eat… so I don’t think it would be a good idea for me to open up a restaurant… however I have tried to convince my nana to open one… told her to call it ‘Souther Sisters’ but I will mention the ‘Shades of South Africa’… don’t know if she will go for it though

here is my classification of myself… I am a white boy… but am sure if you shake the tree enough some color will fall out… oh and I have a full blooded Cherokee Indian grandfather… if that makes me mixed… cool… I always wanted a lil bit of flava in my life :)

now I feel better too… time for me to go running through Atlanta naked (just not in midtown… I don’t want to be ‘violated’)

but Norman I must say there are actually very few Southerners who actually have enough native american heritage to actually be considered ‘mixed blood’ as you so eloquently put it

By Tim

May 5, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Crystal said c**k… hu hu hu hu huhuhu (Beavis and Butthead laugh)

By Crystal

May 5, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

Good heavens, the AJC censors don’t know that a c** fight is between two chickens. Dare I say two roosters? And Ben, if you are planning to go downtown in the state you mentioned, I better stay home (Modesty!) Are you planning to take MARTA?

By Jack

May 5, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Dried pinto beans cooked all day with a bunch of ham in them. Mmmmmmmmmmmm good.

By Netbanker

May 5, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

Have those who rail against any form of government health care or at a minimum health controls reading the financial or business pages? One of the largest costs to American firms of doing business is health care. We are getting our proverbial asses kicked by companies in other countries who are unencumbered by the costs of health care because there are either government controls over cost or government health care. Americans are on an unlevel playing field in terms of global competition.

Another interesting thing that this group seems to miss is that tax dollars are used to pay for the emergency care of the uninsured when they go to an Emergency room. This type of health care is significantly more expensive than providing preventive care that would have avoided an emergency room visit in the first place. Preventive care will also catch conditions that when left untreated resulted in a person being declared disabled and receiving SSI and Medicare. If the best defense is a good offense, then why doesn’t that apply to health care costs?

This approach would also help negate some of the gay marriage/civil union/domestic partner benefits strife encountered by conservatives. My domestic partner of 14 years owns his own business, but the cost of health care for him is outrageous. It was a better deal, as a relatively young and healthy person, to use that expensive Emergency Care at YOUR tax expense than to pay lots of dollars for his own care. Even when my company did start to offer DP benefits we had to weigh the extra tax burden placed on me because I’m taxed on the portion my company contributes for his care but my married coworkers aren’t. HINT to all ‘single’ people…we’re getting screwed by our married coworkers. If there was some form of minimal guaranteed health care the country as a whole would be much better off and in a much better position to respond to biological terror attacks.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Norm, what about you? Are you sure that you’re white?

By Ben

May 5, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Crystal, I would love to move on, and I do give blood. I only choose to go back and for with Norman because I do have a great deal to say about subsidized childcare. It doesn’t affect me. If would help, I’m all for it. That somehow got turned into a child support, dead beat dad debate. Neither applies to me; therefore, nothing to really say about that. I could care less about religion, so no fun there either.

How about a joke?

Saddam and Osama are dead and find themselves in a dark room in heaven. They talk in detail about the havoc they were able to wreak in the world and how they can’t wait to meet there 7 virgins.

While they are laughing making fun of the Americans, Saddam is knocked down by someone. He feels someone kicking him and calls for Osama. Osama, answers but if receiving the same thrashing.

When the light come on they see God standing with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Woodrow Wilson, William Harrision, John Tyler and Zachary Taylor in the corner with a big smile on his face. They say God, what happened to the 7 virgins we were promised.

God laughs, and says “I said 7 Virginians you idiots.”

By Ben

May 5, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

No MARTA is out of the question. However, I guess to avoid being arrested it’s a great idea. Thanks!

By lozen

May 5, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

I work in a university with people from all over the planet - every shade, every language, every socioeconomic background,and ethnic group. What we all have in common is the pursuit of higher learning. Most of us have traveled a great deal and lived in several different areas and countries. We have learned you cannot judge anyone by the shade of their skin, where they were born, the circumstances under which they were born, the mixture of their blood lines, their ethnic group. You judge people by their character and nothing else. I live in a community where people are jewish, islamic, atheists, quakers, new ager practitioners, pagans, etc. We have all kinds of celebrations of all the religious holidays and everyone who wants takes part in all that food, wine, ritual, love, dancing, learning. I am so grateful for my rich, full life.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Netbanker, sorry, wrong blog…

By Jack

May 5, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

I get enough of the black vs. white stuff from the AJC, WSB, WXIA & CBS. We’re all “mutts”. Have a good weekend.

By mel

May 5, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Take heart guys! People like Norman, with his old, pasty a**, will be dead soon enough.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

There must be certain words in the computer that automatically put in asterisks. Maybe a private dick is needed to investigate Norman’s bloodlines! Now I think I’ll go p****** my finger!

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

I actually think that Norman is some old, fat, trailer trash, beer swigging, plumber’s crack-having white guy with an inferiority complex.

By Akeya

May 5, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

I think Norman is probably just a regular guy who knows that because this is a blog and he will most likely not meet any of the people he “bothers” he can say whatever he wants without penalty. I don’t understand why people don’t just ignore him. I don’t take him seriously at all.

By Crystal

May 5, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe it is possible for some ‘gentlemen’ to post without naming anatomical parts. Short vocabulary? Dyslexia?

Time for another joke, Ben.

Bye.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Ben, you have more of a sense of humor about all this than I do! You sound like a prince of a guy. It seems to me that all bi-racial children are incredibly beautiful.

By jack

May 5, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Norman is probably a wealthy, well read retiree who enjoys getting people worked up on the blog. Trailer trash doesn’t possess his vocabulary or intelligence. Now I really have to go. Again, have a good weekend.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

A may agree with the well-read part, but nothing else other than ignorant.

By Ben

May 5, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

Crystal, I’ll see if I can come up with a good joke, I don’t have any off the top of my head. Lozen, thanks for the kind words. It’s not that my sense of humor is so great, I mean it’s good, but I just have great ignorance indicator. To any rational, intelligent person, everything he said is so ignorant it’s funny — I just point out his ignorance and that of any others and show how they don’t make any sense.

BTW, I didn’t go streaking the streets of downtown Atlanta. NOT YET ANYWAY

By Netbanker

May 5, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

LaShelle…right blog, but I was playing catch up and commenting from about a day ago. That was before the conversation veered off into discussions about black, negro, mulato….you kids never did keep going into quadroon, octoroon, et al.

Lozen…what an amazingly rich life you must have with all that exposure to other peoples and cultures. My experience has been that those who have ventured the least far from what they know are the ones who most fear change and difference. It’s a powerful experience to put oneself into a situation where it’s you who are the minority and especially when you don’t speak the language. Maybe we should try that with some of the folks on here to see if it changes their perspectives about life.

By Archie

May 5, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

Netbanker I like your 1:28 post and I have told people over and over that this marriage thing for homosexuals is about benefits. I don’t mean to downplay any feelings of love. We have an account at work for a man’s relative that has no insurance. Maybe instead of saying universal healthcare we should say universal payment. For some reason people are unable to say what they want when it has some value but when it comes to insulting people we can come up with some colorful words. There is absolutely no urgency to solve the problem of 45 million people without health insurance. I also like the Lashelle post at 2:10. Obviously liberals nor conservatives have all the answers because there is some merit to being tough on some people that use government services so the conservatives have some points there but when the uninsured go from 25 million to 45 million over 7 year period perhaps the liberals have a point a national healthcare system.

By LaShelle

May 5, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

I have a reality show idea!!! Let’s put Norman in the middle of the “ghetto” with no cell phone, credit cards, cash, etc for a year. Then let’s give him a job at McDonalds or Walmart and see if that changes his perspective on life?

By Tony

May 5, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company …a church …a home.

The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past …we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way.

We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude …I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you …we are in charge of our attitudes.

By lozen

May 5, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Why Tony, did you think up that wonderful post about attitude all by yourself? The social security proposal has about played out. Polls show most people don’t want to mess with SS. The one suggestion I haven’t heard at all from anybody about SS is to just put back all the money that was skimmed from the fund for other things. Put the money back, and the problem is solved. Am I missing something here? Now, how about we talk about some other important things and shut up about SS. Problems like the need to solve the problem of 45 million people without health insurance, the high cost of health insurance and medicine in this country, and encouraging auto makers to stop making gas guzzling cars? Anybody else beginning to think SS is a red herring?