Civil rights leader Vivian: Churches not doing social action

By Rosalind Bentley

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

When the Rev. C.T. Vivian starts talking, it’s going to take awhile.

As a former lieutenant of Martin Luther King Jr., the civil rights lion has a lot to say: about lunch counter sit-ins; about how he was bloodied by the sheriff in Selma, Ala., while trying to register blacks to vote; about challenging Jim Crow laws by taking the perilous ride on one of the first Freedom Buses.

As a key strategist in the movement, he’s been spat on, punched and threatened. But he pressed on. And, in his later years, he used his activist training to found the education program Upward Bound and an organization that monitors hate groups.

For the past 20 years, he’s been a sought-after speaker. On July 31, he’ll celebrate his 85th birthday at a gala to benefit his fledgling C.T. Vivian Leadership Institute. Here he talks about vision, causes and today’s leadership.

Q: Your birthday celebration is called “Leadership Now: Passing the Torch.” So, to whom are you passing the torch?

A: You know, it’s easy to say “to youth.” People continue to say to me, “Rev. Vivian, young people aren’t like you all were.” But to me what they’re really saying is, how do we get this next generation [involved]? So I want to create a community of leaders through the institute. They don’t have to be 15 years old or in college; they can be 45 or 50. I want to teach them all the great stuff we learned and created during the Civil Rights period.

Q: Some would say the new generation’s grass-roots leaders — the ones who can mobilize a constituency — are not politicians or clergy, but entertainers and personalities such as Tom Joyner, Michael Baisden and even Steve Harvey.

A: No problem with it. They’re filling a gap. But the point is, once they’ve got people together, what are they going to teach them? Just because you have a skill doesn’t mean you have enough skills for leadership. That’s why they’re entertainers.

Q: Some would say that many of the most visible or popular ministers are good at raising a collection but not so much at raising consciousness as far as civil rights are concerned. And I mean on issues such as environmental racism or predatory lending.

A: They are not doing social action today. And our history in the black church, that people remember, is of those that pushed us ahead and pulled us ahead. Most of the guys that are preaching today are [saying], “Get yours.” But I want the kind of leadership that is concerned with the totality of the black community in particular and America in general.

Q: Three years ago on your 82nd birthday, you said you wanted to raise $15 million to build a bricks-and-mortar leadership institute to augment your online leadership institute. How much money have you raised so far?

A: None. Now we’re beginning a million-dollar campaign [toward the $15 million for the leadership institute]. This is what this birthday thing is about. This is the kickoff. The money raised is not for me.

Q: Speaking of fund-raising, you were very involved in the effort to help Morris Brown College raise emergency funds to pay its water bill and to keep the school from shutting its doors for good. Why take that on when you probably needed the same donors to build your leadership institute? Some would say Morris Brown was a lost cause.

A: Because it was needed (pounding fist on chair). And that’s the kind of leadership we need. It was needed because we were about to lose an institution. No people can afford to lose the institutions that have survived for a century. Nor can a people allow themselves to watch it happen! Because then it says we’re not worthy.

Q: But people have other options now, they have choices on which college to attend.

A: But how about those who have no choice? How about those who start from nothing and want to make it? There has to be a place for them.

Q: The Supreme Court recently scaled back the reach of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Did that frighten you, considering your work to get it enacted?

A: No. It’s just a matter of time.

Q: Wait a minute. Are you saying there doesn’t need to be a Voting Rights Act anymore?

A: I didn’t say that at all. We still need it because we still have too many people who are part of the old system, part of our negative past and don’t understand democracy, though they mouth it.

Q: Justice Anthony Kennedy said the ruling would “hasten the waning of racism in American politics.” So you think there will be a day when the act is not needed?

A: Of course. You’ve got to believe that. That’s what the movement was all about. For instance, there are laws still on the books about sweeping up after your horses on city streets. It’s still on the books, but the point is it’s really not needed. All law passes away that way.

Q: How come you never ran for public office?

A: I considered running for Congress one time, but politics is not my concern. And you’ve got to diddle around with nonsense and spend all day worrying.

Q: I see a mayoral campaign sign [for Lisa Borders] in your front yard, but since it appears to be right on the property line I’m going to ask: Who are you supporting for mayor?

A: The name on the lawn lives next door. Neither one [Borders or Kasim Reed] has asked me [for an endorsement]. One of them is my neighbor and the other one I’ve known since he was a little boy. And I’m not going to say to a reporter what I really think.

Birthday celebration

For more information on the “Leadership Now: Passing the Torch” 85th birthday celebration for the Rev. C.T. Vivian on July 31, visit ctvivian.org .