Snellville.Talk

By One Man's View

June 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

What is so special or different about RR Pkwy that it needs to funded by tolls? That argument could be used for any infrastructure project. We simply need to bite the bullet and pay the necessary taxes.

There are many facilities in GC that I, or any member of my family, have never used and never will. So what - maybe others don’t use what I use. The unwillingness to fund needed improvements is small-minded. It is in the interest of everyone in the county to fund needed improvements.

By wde

June 23, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

I’m pretty sure I’ll never have a use to pay a toll to get through to I-85, especially considering it only takes 5 to 10 minutes to get to I-85 anyways via Pleasant Hill.

I love the fact that Georgia and the South in general don’t have all the toll roads everywhere else in the country does. With as much as you pay for gas and repairs and depreciation, the last thing I want too see is 2 quarters flying out the window.

I’m just a poor, lowly college student though :(.

By Chet

June 23, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

I believe that government should be limited in every way to just those things that are necessary for them to do. Providing infrastructure is one of those things. When we start down the path of privatizing roads, and make no mistake, that is what this is, where do we stop????

By Katie

June 24, 2008 5:39 AM | Link to this

What a stupid idea. That’ll sure help with the traffic problem, NOT!!

By Sandy_G

June 24, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Extending Ronald Reagan parkway is estimated to cost $200 million dollars at this point because most of the area that is not already developed, is wetlands and yes, wetlands with endangered plants and birds. Lorraine Green’s proposal is to elevate the highway 8 or 9 feet above the ground for almost the entire length of the extension in order to go over the wetlands.

This would be a great plan and would save numerous homes that otherwise would have to be torn down and whole neighborhoods cut in half by this road which will cut a 200-foot wide path through the last remaining green-space in this part of the county.

Here’s my question: have any of the drivers of Ronald Reagan parkway been surveyed or polled to determine what percentage would agree to pay a $2 to $3 toll to drive the last 3 miles to I-85? Of course, we all know what happens where a road ties into a major interstate which is already bumper-to-bumper and moving at 20 mph in the mornings and evenings, complete bottleneck.

My sense is that if the extension is built, it will be very lightly used because it will actually be quicker to take side roads to the interstate than to creep along on RR Pkwy to connect to I-85. Even if the extension does carry enough drivers to pay for itself, the citizens of Gwinnett have to ask a couple of questions.

1) Is it worth $200 million+ dollars, years of construction and cutting down old growth forests that took 200 years to grow to save drivers 5 minutes on their commutes?

2) Ten years from now when gas is $10 a gallon, wouldn’t it be nice if instead of driving to work from Snellville, you could get on a commuter train from Snellville to I-85 which connected with MARTA at a station near Gwinnett Place Mall?

This county has leaders who are averse to taking risks and having a bigger, long-term vision for the transportation needs of it’s citizens. The northern suburbs need mass transit (busses alone are not going to cut it) that traverses a north and south route along I-85 and an east-west route along I-285 with spurs going where people work and live. When we get our minds around this and start building it, you will see an explosion of new growth, revitalization of older neighborhoods and construction of new mixed-use developments and office complexes near the rails.

Georgia is 20 years behind on mass transit. We have to stop saying “we should study it” and start making plans. The Federal government earmarked $900 million dollars for the State of Georgia to use to build rail lines for commuter trains. To date, we have used none of it. If we don’t do something about mass transit, we will watch our area begin to die slowly, businesses will move elsewhere to places like Phoenix, AZ and Charlotte, NC and so will our jobs and high-income residents.

BUILDING ROADS IS NOT THE ANSWER WE NEED.

By One Man's View

June 24, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

More comments: I think that “private-public partnership” is a wishy-washy term. Who owns the final product? Who maintains it? We, the public should pay for infrastructure. We obviously hire private companies to build. We also can hire private companies to manage a public facility. But there should be no fuzzy lines about who owns or is control when we contract with a private firm to perform a specific task within a fixed time frame.

One main road should not be more or less privileged than any other. If tolls for roads are such a good idea, put toll collection points up all over the county. If not, forget about it for any one road.

Have traffic studies determined that RR Pkwy needs to tie into I-85. Or is this mostly a means for a contractor to make money? If we need it, we should pay for it and access like any other road.

By Yes, We Know

June 24, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

1) Public-Private means that the county will own the land, but a private company will build the road and collect the tolls. In order for this arrangement to work, it has to be mutually beneficial to both parties. Road builders won’t build it if they can’t profit, and the county won’t approve it there is no agreement to ever “give back” the road to the county.

2) If the toll is too much for you, then go ahead and sit on Pleasant Hill. You realize that it takes money to build roads right? So the more that is collected (through tolls or penny regional taxes) means that more roads (or transit) can be built. By having a private firm build the road, it frees up government money to be used elsewhere. Since there are alternates to using the RR extension, you won’t be FORCED to pay a toll.

3) IF this goes through, then the county needs to make a commitment to fix the disaster zone where RR ends in Snellville. Otherwise its like connecting a garden hose to fire hydrant and having the open end sitting in your living room.

4) Oh, and while we’re at it, lets make the contractor build the extension to accommodate rail lines down the center (like the 400 toll road). This way we can scare everyone in Snellville into thinking we’re bringing MARTA to their back yards.

By Sandy_G

June 24, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

“If the toll is too much for you, then go ahead and sit on Pleasant Hill.”

There are plans already drawn up to completely redo the interchange of Pleasant Hill Rd. and I-85 which will greatly improve the traffic flow at that interchange.

Another thing that would help the flow of traffic on I-85 would be reversible HOV lanes. What this means, is that you take the two HOV lanes we have now (running north and south) and you take out the divider down the center and put dividers on either side, creating two lanes in the center of the interstate that are separated from the rest of traffic. The lanes would then go south in the mornings, and north in the evenings.

Outside of rush hour times, the lanes could be opened to regular traffic in whatever direction is needed to ease traffic. This system has been in place for the past 20 years in Northern Virginia/Washington D.C. area and it works well. Commuters park in “park and ride” lots near their homes where they catch buses or vanpools which then ride in the HOV lanes, bypassing much of the stop and go traffic because there is no “cutting in and out” of lanes by single-passenger drivers and entry and exit into and out of the lanes is set up by dedicated HOV exit and entrance ramps.

This area also has commuter rail that takes passengers from their downtown areas into Washington, D.C. where it deposits them at METRO stations which then go to various parts of the city. The commuter rail runs into D.C. in the mornings, shuts down from say 10:00 am to 2:00 pm and then runs out to the suburbs until around 8:00 pm when it shuts down for the day. No worries about “criminals” riding the train to burlarize your home, just trains that move people between work and home.

The entire east coast of the U.S. has systems like this as do a lot of the larger cities in the U.S. Yes, it costs money and yes, it takes time to build, but the clock is ticking and the question is, do we want to still be sitting on our hands when gas is $10 a gallon?

By Yes, We Know

June 24, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

New HOV lanes on 85?

…and you thought MARTA track was pricey by the mile!

In order for your scenario to work, every bridge on 85 would have to be completely rebuilt. Not to mention the existing median wall torn down and two new ones put in it’s place. Then there is the issue of ramps and gates and having enough room to merge in and out.

What needs to happen is an expansion of the Collector/Distributor lanes that exist from 316 to Old Peachtree. They need to be added along the whole route from 285 to Mall of Ga.

But this costs money, exorbitant sums of money. Sonny and his girl at the GDOT have made it clear that road building is going to be cut back. Add to that the lack of leadership in the General Assembly to get the regional penny transportation tax passed, and all of your neat ideas on how to fix our traffic solutions are nothing more than a pipe dream.

The true solution to traffic is to give drivers viable alternative routes. If a wreck happens on 85, what are your detour options? Winding down satellite, buford hwy and PIB?

A RR extension would give people the OPTION of taking a faster route for a price.

The proposed HOT lanes on 85 would do the same.

Let people pay who want to go faster, let those don’t want to pay sit in traffic, and then use the money collected to fix EVERYONE’S traffic issues!

By Steve

June 24, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Want to fix the traffic? Install traffic light sensors for nighttime travel, and correctly time the lights in the day. I don’t know how many times I’ve got a green light only to drive 200 yards into another red. It’s rediculious around here. Traffic could be so much lighter if anyone with half a brain knew how to set up the traffic lights.

By Sandy_G

June 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

“If a wreck happens on 85, what are your detour options? Winding down satellite, buford hwy and PIB?”

And exactly how is the RR Pkway extension going to help you if there’s a wreck on I-85?

I agree with Steve and his ideas as well. Imagine taking just half of what it will cost to build the RR Pkway extension and applying that money to installing a state-of-the-art fiber optics traffic control system? You know, one that changes the timing of the lights as the traffic flow changes or even making sure there is a right-turn lane at every major intersection (i.e. Beaver Ruin & Hwy 29, Indian Trail & Hwy 19, etc.) I agree with Steve that there are many, many cheaper and easier fixes to make traffic flow better on the side streets that will ultimately make taking alternate routes to I-85 actually feasible. Service roads that parallel I-85 would be another good idea to take some of the local traffic off of the interstate. Connecting the two ends of Arc Way so you have another connecting road between Pleasant Hill and Beaver Ruin would be yet another way to take some of the traffic load off of Pleasant Hill.

Unfortunately, light timing, right-turn lanes, connecting dead-end roads to make through roads, new signals, etc. are not as flashy and “glamorous” when it’s an election year and big, empty campaign promises are being thrown out for the gullible.

I will eat my hat if any private company agrees to foot 100% of the $200 million dollar+ construction costs of this road in exchange for tolls.

By ITS-OVER

June 25, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this

Matters none to me. With gas prices going up the way they are, im going to have to quit my job and go on welfare. I dont make enough on my job to pay for gas, grocery, rent and insurance. So the gas has to go along with my job. Just kidding.

Putting the final on Ronald Regan is a political thing. The land issue is what stopped it in the first place. The road ended in some political figures back yard. Thats why it ended where it did. He wanted the action and the payout. Its always been like that. A few years ago they tried to make RR a tollroad even though taxpayers paid for the road alredy in a 1% tax. They think were stupid.

Would I use the road, probably not. It would probably cost 1.75 each way and with gas the way it is thats 17.50 per week in tolls. For 17.50 I could eat off the dollar menu at Wendys for a week. This is a no brainer. I would continue to use Pleasant Hill and eat lunch.

I have to sit and wonder how much money these representatives that are holding up drilling in America think we have. Taxes are still way to high, with oil out of this world, or should I say out of this country everything is rising except our pay. Come on, a toll. Nawww I pass. I will take the extra 5 minutes it takes to contine on Pleaseant Hill to I85. Let someone else dump out money. I dump to much as it is.

By Yes, We Know

June 25, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

The county is taking proposals on the RR extension until August. At that time, they will decide whether or not it is feasible (financially) to build the road.

In a perfect scenario, the county would only have to pay for the land and the contractor would pay for construction.

Then the county and the contractor work out an agreement on how long the contractor could “own” the road and collect tolls (10, 15, 20 years). Once that agreement expires the county can assume control or extend the contract.

These public-private roads only work in areas where they will be an alternate to an established route. You all have already said you would use Pleasant Hill to avoid the tolls. When this kind of initiative was proposed on 316, it failed because the road is already built and owned by the state, and there is no viable alternate to avoid tolls. People going to Athens would have basically been forced to ante up.

Not so for the RR extension.

I don’t think there is much harm in at least taking proposals and discussing the idea. If the county can come away and have this road built for a fraction of what it would cost to do it using 100% public funds, then in the end the taxpayer is the winner.

Plus think of the opportunity to add HOV, BRT, or Rail lines down the center of the new highway?

By Snc

June 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

i think there is a better way here without a toll road. All I can say is please don’t bring MARTA in. The crime rate comes with rail system. If you think crime is bad now in Gwinnett wait until a rail systems comes here…..JUST ASK DEKALB COUNTY folks about this.

By jean s

June 25, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Buyer beware! According to an article in Car and Driver most private toll roads come with a “non-compete clause”. The toll operators must be guaranteed a certain amount of funds to meet costs. To achieve this,traffic is diverted to the toll road by making alternate routes absolute headaches. This is done by adding extra stoplights, changing traffic patterns, etc. Gwinnett County Commissioners seem bent on having a private toll road somewhere. They will keep at it until they get one. I hope they read the contracts closely.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 26, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

Like the stadium, if the toll road fails, we’ll own it.

By Sandy_G

June 26, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

I agree that the we need to look very carefully at the fine print in any agreement with a private contractor. Any private company worth it’s salt, is going to make sure that they don’t get stuck with something that won’t make a profit, so expect lots of “escape clauses” such that the County (i.e., the taxpayers) will end up paying for this $200 million+ road (that’s enough money to build four or five baseball stadiums).

It’s going to be sold to you as traffic relief. But it will also likely put an end to any other alternate routes, new bridges over I-85, etc. that will be more user-friendly and more importantly, free.

What other reason would anyone agree to pay $2 or $3 to save themselve 2 or 3 minutes off of their commute? And who knows if it will even save you any time? You know you’re not going to just zip easily off of RR Pkwy onto I-85 South! You’re going to come to a complete crawl about a mile away and inch along until you make the transition.

If this road was going to tie in to I-85 somewhere around Spaghetti Junction, it MIGHT be of some relief. As it’s planned now, it’s just going to create even more of a nightmare situation on I-85 between Steve Reynolds and Beaver Ruin in the mornings and in the evenings.

By in the path

June 26, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

The only feasible routes for the proposed Ronald Reagan extension would occupy some of the only remaining stretches of (privately owned) greenspace in a part of the county that is woefully underserved in terms of parkland. These stream floodplains are some of the last areas wild creatures can survive in this increasing over-built area. The most likely route would take out several houses in my neighborhood and place an elevated highway directly behind our neighborhood pool, where there are now trees and birds. I’m sorry that people in Snellville and Grayson have difficulty reaching Interstate 85, but I didn’t make them buy houses there.

By Janet-T

June 27, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

I live in one of the neighborhoods that will be damaged by this new road. Huntington, Beaver Lodge and Beaver Hills subdivisions are a beautiful enclave of John Weiland homes built around 22 acres of privately-owned greenspace with a pool, tennis courts and a playground. These homes were built around the old growth trees so it is like living in the woods with creeks and lots of wildlife. We are 3 miles from I-85 which makes for an easy five-minute trip to the interstate for commuters, we are near shopping, have an elementary school right inside our neighborhood so kids can walk to school, we are a close-knit community with 70+ families that belong to the pool each year and all kinds of neighborhood activities like Easter Egg hunts, Halloween parties, cookouts, Dive-In movies, etc. all year long. The greatest thing about our neighborhood is the people. We watch out for each other’s kids and each other’s homes, we have a COPS program and we are active in our local government. And the topper, is you can buy a home in our neighborhood for $150,000 - $200,000. Our kids know what it is like to ride their bikes down to the creek with their fishing poles and catch small-mouth bass or wade into the water to look for crawfish, frogs and turtles. They know what an owl sounds like late at night and they’ve seen our resident blue heron fly overhead along with hawks, buzzards and woodpeckers.

This will likely all be extinguished by the extension of this road so that people who chose to pay $250,000 for a home on a postage-stamp sized lot in a neighborhood with no trees or greenspace 15 miles from I-85 can shave 3 or 4 minutes off of their commute. This flies in the face of everything that is logical and right for this county. Why should those of us who did not run from southwestern Gwinnett, those of us who chose to invest money in homes in this area, those of us who are bringing up children in these areas and revitalizing these older neighborhoods, have our homes and neighborhoods destroyed so people who voluntarily chose longer commutes can benefit?

By Jerry

June 28, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

I agree with In The Path. Don’t like the commute? Don’t buy a house there! As for wetlands and the endangered amoeba. Who cares? Remember the mussels in Florida? Face it. The entire Atlanta metro area is screwed up and overbuilt without any forethought regarding infrastructure. Thank you politicos!

By Doog

June 30, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

Developers rule. I have never seen a project or road NOT built because of public opinion.

By Yeah, Doog Knows

June 30, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Doog, remember the Northern Arc? Public opinion killed it thinking it would do nothing but spur on development.

Well development came anyways and now everyone in that area is stuck in traffic.

By Sandy_G

June 30, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Politicians cater to the folks who vote for them. Southwestern Gwinnett is no longer majority Republican and so the Republicans running for office will not run the risk of losing votes if they pave over a few subdivisions and displace a few dozen homeowners in order to curry favor with their Republican constituents in places like Snellville, Grayson, Dacula, etc.

Until people in Southwestern Gwinnett vote in a Democrat who will represent their needs, they won’t have any true representation in the county government. Politicians do not care about people who do not vote for them or contribute to their campaigns, period.

We definitely need new leadership in this county, but Lorraine Green is not it. She talks the talk but does not walk the walk. She is pushing this extension in order to win votes with people who moved away from Southwestern Gwinnett and Bannister is doddering along after her trying to do the same.

If you truly want new leadership in this county for the next few years, try voting Democrat in the commissioner race. I’ve been a Republican all my voting life and I will be voting for a Democrat for commissioner this year. What an upset that would be in Gwinnett County for the developers!

By woodie

July 7, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

No they shouldn’t have a toll. And I think they should close the exit ramp at Lawrenceville Hwy. It just causes more traffic for me. If your goal is to get to I-85, then go to Pleasant Hill.

By Southern Gentleman

July 8, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

They shouldn’t have a toll. It’s enough of a toll just to get from Snellville to Pleasant Hill, with gas prices the way they are.

And while I’m all for improved access to roads, why should we extend Ronnie’s Pkwy to I-85? There are surface streets that could get you there quicker - why not invest in making them more traffic friendly?

The Southern Gent

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