Snellville.Talk

By Richard

August 30, 2007 5:31 AM | Link to this

The drop in SAT scores did not surprise me. I believe that the scores will drop even further. Principal Simmons is well aware of the reasons why the score dropped. He may not state it in public, but he is not a fool. Many other residents in the South Gwinnett school district saw this coming a few years ago. Susan, I am quite sure that you saw this coming, but for politically correct reasons, can’t talk about it. So I will let the cat out of the bag. The changing population of South Gwinnett is the #1 reason for the decline in the SAT scores. The increase of Black and Hispanic children in the school is the main reason. It has been proven over time that Black and Hispanic students score lower on the exam. I can not discuss the reason why this happens, but these are facts that can’t be denied. Susan, you are correct, many more homes will have “For Sale” signs. Many white families will move out of the area in search of “better schools”, meaning schools where whites are the majority. Keep in mind that you moved here 10 year ago, because this area had “great schools”. Those same houses will be bought by black families. In turn, the scores will decrease even further. Susan, you should copy your blog and save it for next year. You will need it, because the scores will drop even further. Those reading this blog may think that I am a red-neck racist. Truth be told, I am black and have a child at South Gwinnett HS. I moved here so that my child can go to a “good school”. We need to have an open discussion on how we can address this issue. This must begin in the homes of the Black and Hispanic children. We must change our viewpoints on education. We are not mentally inferior to other races, but our value of education is inferior. Let’s stop blaming the president, Sonny, the school board, the teachers, or the “Man”.

By Pam

August 30, 2007 7:31 AM | Link to this

Richard,

I’m shocked that you say that South Gwinnett’s schools are failing because of the increased number of Blacks and Hispanics and you are planning to move, BUT you are black. Your logic says your child is not the reason the scores have dropped.

I’m sure this is not true. I’m sure there are white students in that school that didn’t score well either. What the parents at South Gwinnett need to do is not put up a For Sale sign, but to get more involved with their school, their children and their roles as parents. Stop running and start parenting.

You can turn South Gwinnett back to a better performing school.

By Greta

August 30, 2007 7:39 AM | Link to this

The ONLY reason South Gwinnett is not performing well is because DEKALB county parents keep sending their kids to Gwinnett schools. I can’t tell you the number of times I see Dekalb license plates dropping off students. South Gwinnett and all of the other Gwinnett schools that border the Dekalb line need to crack down on this. That is the problem. Dekalb stay out!!

By dave

August 30, 2007 7:41 AM | Link to this

FACT: Georgia is STILL at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to education. If I had children I would move up north. The worst NYC scools perform far better then the best schools that GA has to offer. Having the govna’ and his croonies try to say that the results are good or even a step in the right direction is nothing short of pathetic. Once again…GA and the religious right (who voted in all the brilliant leaders of our state) care more about schools teaching abstinance then they do about teaching math or history. They also need to do away with ALL sports in GA schools until they get over the 50% mark when it comes to state rankings…but it will never ever happen… I’ll just sit back and watch you clowns continue your crazy downward spiral..

Oh yeah…good thing that they can now teach the bible as a history course…another brilliant move…and just what the kids need to function in the “real world”…the understanding of the greatest fable ever written…. commandmant #11: Though shall not follow blindly

Please change the sign at all state borders to now say the following:

Welcome to GA! the ONLY text book our kids need is the bible! ;-)

By Carl

August 30, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this

Gee, that’s funny. That horrible county that the elites want divorce themselves from(Fulton) had the highest SAT avg. 1595 in the metro.

By Lois

August 30, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Carl:

You do know that Fulton’s SAT scores aren’t THAT much higher than Gwinnett’s don’t you? Get over yourself. Good grief!

By Carl

August 30, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Lois, try a 71 point difference between Fulton and Gwinnett.

By Joe

August 30, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Carl Fulton county has the highest SAT results only because of all the *north * Fulton county schools. Remove those schools and Fulton county is just all the rest.

By DIogenes

August 30, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Pam, you don’t understand Richard’s comments, which are right on. Of course, “some” black students (like, I’ll bet, Richard’s kids) score above average, while “some” white kids will score lower. However, looking at things on a macro scale, black and hispanic (and particularly black) kids score, on average, significantly lower than do white kids.

We need to be honest as to the “why’s” if we want to fix it. Richard is the shining example. What happens when black parents take a significant interest in their kids’ educations? Stimulate their thirst for knowledge when they’re in their pre-school years? Demand that they study and excel, and reward them when they do? Voila — THEIR test scores go up, too.

Unfortunately, parents like Richard seem to be the exception in minority communities. My wife is a teacher, now at a private school. She gave up her public school career because she was tired of belligerent minority parents protecting the belligerence of their kids, of minority kids who tried to learn being taunted as “acting white,” and of the general indifference towards eductation exhibited by far too many of her minority students and families. She now teaches in a private school where kids (including minority kids of caring parents like Richard) WANT to learn, and parents want THEM to learn.

We have to recognize a problem before we can fix it.

By Old Physics Teacher

August 30, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Sigh, While we’re all doing statistics, why don’t we look at some historical examples too? As the number of churches increase in a city, the amount of violent crime increases. This means we should stamp out churches, right?

Guys, guys, guys, (insert exasperated sigh here, too)

1st: Individual SAT scores are only measured in the 10’s column, ex: 1510, 1650, and 2110. Averaging these numbers together and rounding into the 1’s column is improper; no matter what a statistician says - GIGO = Garbage In; Garbage Out. When the scores are averaged into the 10’s column, most of the changes from year to year disappear. Our kids are still our kids

2nd: Comparing the class of 2007 average SAT scores to the class of 2008 average SAT scores is ridiculous. They’re not the same kids. Some years smart parents produce more smart kids; some years they don’t. One time in my own county, our newspaper claimed our schools did a wonderful job. Our average SAT scores increased 15 points. The next year they dropped 15 points. When the principal was asked what went wrong, he simply said, we graduated the smartest 5 kids we’ve ever had this year.

I just wish the colleges of journalism required more courses in logical thought and fewer on sensationalism.

By Matt

August 30, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Y’all are ignorant. Yes, race may have something to do with the variance in scores between schools and among counties. But, the low scores have NOTHING to do with the education of the state of Georgia. The cause of the low scores is the HOPE SCHOLARSHIP. In Georgia, almost everyone takes the SAT because they figure that if they can do well, they can go to college for free. Elsewhere, though, poor students, who are often times on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to standardized testing, don’t even bother to take the tests because they can’t afford college. I am in no way advocating dropping the Hope Scholarship, but it should be taken into account when analyzing these numbers.

By jim

August 30, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Only 69% of Georgia students took SAT. This is from college board web site. A lot of NE states (MA, NH, NY) have similiar or higher percentage of student took SAT.

By GATeacher

August 30, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Richard, I doubt that you’re black. Don’t lie to justify your statement or beliefs. I AM black, and I couldn’t disagree more.

I teach in fulton county, but I went to school in Buckhead. I can assure you that the only reason our north county school sare doing better is because they are upper-income homes. That’s it! Just as the drug addicted kids I went to school with 20 years ago scored well on the SAT.

Hispanics have a language barrier. But the ones I have taught here in south fulton tend to do extremely well. They are NOT thugs, nor are they ignorant. Many of them are in our gifted program.

If you gather upper-income blacks and give them the SAT, they will also do well. Socio-economics play a huge role in how well a student will perform. Of course, we have exceptions. I’ve taught kids that came from broken homes, with parents in prison, yet they could outscore most on standardized tests. After doing this job for 15 years, I can assure you that you have a lot of learning to do about the races.

And regardin Hope, it’s a great opportunity for poor and middle class kids. I sure do plan on my kids taking advantage of it!

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Yeah…I love Alpharetta. I love that my child attends one of the best High Schools in the state, Chattahoochee!! I’ve said it time and time again that if you just took the North Fulton statistics and compared them to the National averages. We would be right up there. All of these other schools need to come up here and take a few notes. Not every child is rich but the teachers give 150% and I love that. Go Chattahoochee!!!!!

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Matt, people take the SAT because they need it to get into college. These students want to go to college and that’s great. It doesn’t matter if HOPE is available to them or not. You’re an idiot!!!

By Kaye

August 30, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

First off, moving because of a change in demographics is a dumb move. If you start that pattern, you will never stop moving. Instead, stay, and fight for the improvement of the schools, and the area you live in.

Second, what do SAT test scores prove. Nothing. Not everyone is a test taker. You can be in the top 10% of your class, and score below a 1000 on the SATs. You can be on the honor, who’s who’s lists, and be favored by the teachers and still not do well on the test.

There have been instances of students not graduating because they didn’t past the graduation exams, and they were not only AB students, but some were even white. So what does this prove?

So instead of blaming the decline on changing demographics, why not look into ways of improving the education of students, and finding ways of helping them improve. Why not set up Princeton type review sessions for those interested in taking or improving their scores, or any other type of study sessions. Stop playing the blame and race game, and become more invested in your community.

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

GA Teacher,

I’m black and I’ve lived in Alpharetta/Roswell since I was four. My daughter is a senior at Chattahoochee and I don’t agree with you. Everyone that lives in NORTH Fulton are not rich. My parents weren’t rich, I’m not rich and neither are the majority of my parents friends, my friends or my daughter’f friends. I’ve had the pleasure of knowing many people in my 30+ years in North Fulton and maybe two were considered wealthy. The majority are hardworking folks with the same problems as anyone else. Drug addicts, alcholics, abusive parents, etc. What I have noticed is that we care about our children’s education and it’s a top priority. We take the time to attend parent/teacher conferences, volunteer at school, help our kids with there homework and whatever else we need to do to make sure that they succeed. If everyone else cared as much they’re schools would be great, too.

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

cara: If you read my message again, you will realize that you just reiterated my thoughts, so I guess you are an idiot too. I know that people need the SAT to get into college. It’s just that in the state of Georgia, more people are aiming to go to college because the Hope allows many more people the opportunity to, economically. Learn to read critically.

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Matt, This is what you typed, right?????

In Georgia, almost everyone takes the SAT because they figure that if they can do well, they can go to college for free. (That’s not why people take the SAT. HOPE is based off of your grade point average!!)

You’re an idiot. Why don’t you just work on mastering the thinking part and keep all of the critical thinking to me!!!

By cara

August 30, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

Matt, This is what you typed, right?????

In Georgia, almost everyone takes the SAT because they figure that if they can do well, they can go to college for free. (That’s not why people take the SAT. HOPE is based off of your grade point average!!)

You’re an idiot. Why don’t you just work on mastering the thinking part and leave all of the critical thinking to me!!!

By GATeacher

August 30, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

DIogenes Your wife obviously didn’t work at my child’s school which is 97% black and has consistently made AYP for 6 years straight! I live in south fulton, where we are considering creating our own city as well. Our kids are doing extremely well on tests. Before we generalize about races, let’s get more facts! These generalizations disgust me!

By JV

August 30, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

I say the parents of Dekalb who sends their kids to the Gwinnett schools need to do two things. Either move to Gwinnett or better off, find ways to improve the Dekalb schools. To the people who move away if they see people that is not like them. Instead of moving away all the time, stay and fight for your property and neiborhood. If we keep moving, we will have nowhere to move to.

By DB

August 30, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Simmons needs to read the criteria for the SAT scoring before talking about juniors who took the SAT and didn’t take it as seniors.

The SAT reporting clearly states that the scores are for the Class of 2007, and that the scores reported represent the most recent score the senior received. So even if the senior took it only once in their junior year — that was the score that was used. Almost 17,000 seniors did not take the test as a senior.

Comments like his regarding the nature of the SAT make me nervous, because it shows just how little even administrators understand how these scores are determined.

Jim, to say that “only” 69% of the kids in Georgia took the SAT is misleading. 69% is a HUGE number — the 13th highest in the country. Maine has 100%, because the SAT is a state requirement for graduation (Maine’s scores are also the lowest in the country. Can’t you imagine the hoopla in the Maine newspapers this week? :-) Over half of the country has a 30% participation rate or LESS. 17 states have participation rates of 10% or less! The national average is 48%.

There are some interesting correlations that can be inferred regarding socio-economic factors and scores, if you look at the Georgia state report from the College Board. Correlations, however, are not proof, they are simply interesting indices that point to issues that might be factors.

For example: There is almost a direct correlation between family income and score. The more money a family makes, the higher the score. Also, the higher the education level of the parents, the higher the score.

In the ENTIRE state of Georgia, the mean scores for various race groups are as follows: White - 1553 Asian - 1581 Black - 1286

The SAT is one indication of APTITUDE. It’s not a proficiency test. Don’t try to make it something that it isn’t.

By Mark

August 30, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

DAVE…

Do your homework man! You stated that the worst NYC scools (sic) are better than the best schools in Georgia!?

I did a little research and found that the NYC schools SAT scores are almost 100 points LOWER than the Georgia average. In fact, NYC and Dekalb County have almost identical SAT scores…so it could be said that NYC schools, on average, are very much like Georgia’s worst!

Also, if you really loved your children you would not want to send them to schools “up north,” as you stated. New York has 27 schools that have been labeled as “persistently dangerous.” Georgia doesn’t have any.

It is so wild how people make statements that have no factual basis at all.

By MrLiberty

August 30, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Educating children is the responsibility of the parents, not government.

Government fails at all it attempts to do. Why would they not fail at education too?

Homeschool folks. Don’t your kids deserve the best????

By Mark

August 30, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Cara….

Trust me. The high scores of the schools in North Fulton have nothing to do with the schools themselves, the teachers, the administrators or the curriculum.

The scores merely reflect the overall socioeconomic health of that community. Some folks choose to live in more diverse areas. It’s quite possible their children attend better schools, but the SAT scores won’t reflect that.

A friend of mine and his wife told me that he and his wife were trying to buy in the Walton school district a few years ago because it had the highest SAT scores. Their comment disappointed me because they are both college educated people who should know better.

By Hugo

August 30, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

The belief that parents of minority students do not attend parent teacher conferences or care about education is nonsense. This is another specious argument that is repeated over and over again. My daughter graduated from a South Fulton High School this past year and she is now enrolled in a major college as is most of her friends. Her graduating class have students attending schools such as: Harvard, Princeton, Yale Georgia Tech, MIT, University of Georgia, Georgetown, Clemson and others. Please, before you write nonsense whether you’re black or white, state the facts and not something that has been repeated over and over until it sounds true even if it is not. What affects SAT scores has more to do with economic factors and not race. This is based on research not conjecture.

By Hugo

August 30, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

The belief that parents of minority students do not attend parent teacher conferences or care about education is nonsense. This is another specious argument that is repeated over and over again. My daughter graduated from a South Fulton High School this past year and she is now enrolled in a major college as is most of her friends. Her graduating class have students attending schools such as: Harvard, Princeton, Yale Georgia Tech, MIT, University of Georgia, Georgetown, Clemson and others. Please, before you write nonsense whether you’re black or white, state the facts and not something that has been repeated over and over until it sounds true even if it is not. What affects SAT scores has more to do with economic factors and not race. This is based on research not conjecture.

By Mark

August 30, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty…

I have an uncanny ability to pick a homeschooled kid out of a crowd with near 100% accuracy. Trust me, what I see in home-schooled kids that makes them stand out is not a positive thing.

By Michael H. Smith

August 30, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

What do I think about Gwinnett school’s SAT scores?

I think my government is failing me once again. I think America, not just Gwinnett, needs to wake-up to reality. We are living in what is called and now has become, the “Flat World”: Where other nations, some that simply have cheaper labor and others that have better educated children, are going to put all of our children at a competitive disadvantage, even here in America.

Susan, and friends, we can run, we can sale our houses, we can even continue to speak beneath our intelligence about “races” to pass off blame (even though science only supports the existence of “one race”) in attempts to avoid the harsh reality that our children (who will soon take over this nation we have been entrusted to give them) will have less than we’ve enjoyed. Bluntly said: There is no protected place to hide, for us or them.

So Susan, and friends, we best make our stand to wage the fight by any means necessary against all obstacles, foreign and domestic, to see to it that our future generations are better than well prepared to triumph, both socially and economically, in the “Flat World”. Where old protective boundaries will no longer exist and labor will be treated and traded, openly as a commodity (i.e. like sheep, pigs and cattle).

By GATeacher

August 30, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Cara Please take the time to read my post. I never said they were wealthy. I said upper income class. In my community, we do care about our schools. I am speaking from my years of experience as an educator. Of course there are moderately priced homes in north fulton, however what is moderately priced in north fulton is expensive in others. Please research homes for sale in your community on www.atlantamls.com. Of course you have problems in your community and I didn’t state that you didn’t. This is my experience and wisdom.

By CS

August 30, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

I really believe that a stable household with supportive, involved parents is the key to education success. Unfortunately, many of the underperforming counties include households where both parents have to work or maybe a single parent household. In this situation, a child does not have a good environment for learning. Then, a child has to take it upon him/herself to develop the discipline and study habits to learn. Unfortunately, many black children get ridiculed for trying to overachieve in the classroom. They are accused of tring to “act white.” What shame. The only way to change the results is to change how education is perceived and nurtured.

By Hugo

August 30, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

Once again we repeat things that may or may not be factual. The comments that black students ridicule others for acting white if they achieve academically is ludicrous. Name one instance that you have heard this comment personally. I even heard Barack Obama repeat this nonsense. The acting white comments came from black students using white slang terms during the 80’s and part of the 90’s. This was picked up by the Rush O’Hannity’s and Boortz’s of conservative radio and all of a sudden black people don’t care about education or equating academic excellence with whiteness. My daughter and her friends excelled academically and at no time did I hear anyone say she was acting white. PLEASE STOP IT!!!!!!!

By Peaches

August 30, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Good job on fisking poor Dave who obviously has a faith burr up his…err under his saddle. Seems like Dave can’t get his facts right. As Lewis Grizzard used to say…I 85 runs both ways and Delta is ready when you are.

By EW

August 30, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Hmmm, seems like Georgia may need to implement Richard Hernsteins, The Bell Curve. We all really know what the issue is here and who is bringing the scroes down. No one seems to notice the 800 lb. pink elephant.

By blakgirl

August 30, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

I can give you one instance. It happen to my daughter while attending school in Riverdale. The kids called her white girl because she didn’t read Ghetto Books, said she wanted to go to Spelman and was in TAG.

She told her friends I took her to the mueseum and a shakespeare play. They told her that’s “White folks stuff’ and it happen to me when I was in school. My black friends told me I read too much!

By SCSkies

August 30, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Schools should not receive all the credit, nor all the blame. Are students sent to school daily with full stomachs after receiving adequate and restful sleep? Do the students have parents who value education? Do the parents read to the child prior to school age? Are books, magazines, newspapers in the home? Do the parents and children have library cards? Are trips to the library regarded as treats? Are TV/computer games limited? Are family expectations of success? that the student will be accepting responsibility for self and assignments? Does the family work and play well together as a unit? Teachers are employed professionals, Parents are forever.

By smarty pants

August 30, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Guess what region of the country has the highest SAT scores as a regional average?

Thats right, The Northeast.

Why do you think that is? Participation rates are about equal. Is it because people are just smarter up there? Maybe its because folks don’t have the hang ups people do down here on paying taxes for services such as education. You get what you pay for.

By Old Physics Teacher

August 30, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Hugo,

Sorry about your statement - you’re wrong. While I was in line at the grocery store with my wife, my wife asked the black high-school aged cashier what she thought about our school’s valedictorian being a black girl (for the first time ever - this was less than 6 years ago). The cashier said, with disdain in her voice, that the valedictorian was “acting white” and did not represent her, or any of her friends. The cashier graduated at the same time. The valedictorian has only been back to town to visit with her parents. The cashier now works a production line job at low pay in her home town. It’s still happening throughout Georgia every day.

By Blind Homer

August 30, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

GA Teacher - The lower socio-econmic kids don’t do worse on standardized IQ tests because of their socio-economic conditions, although that may be a factor in their poor grades (lacking motivation). They do poorly on tests and in life (living in poverty) because their roots are on the left side of the IQ bell curve, the low end of the gene pool. I can show you lots of poor people that have done well academically, myself included, but I bet you can’t show me one 80 IQ student that got 2000 on the SAT! The biggest problem with public schools and NCLB is that it is economically inefficient. It directs more resources to students who, for the overwhelming majority, will not make significant contributions to our society in return.

By Lex Luthor

August 30, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Hugo,

Have you ever heard of an Oreo? Probably not because you don’t know what you are talking about!

By Ricahrd

August 30, 2007 9:51 PM | Link to this

First, I want to address the comments of GA Teacher, who made an accusation that I was not being truthful by stating that I am black. The only reason for her claim was that my viewpoints were different from her viewpoints. I guess that all black people think alike and can’t have differing opinions. Yes, I am black, raised in NY and went to an all black college, enough said. Second, there are many Black and Hispanic kids do extremely well on the SAT and attend prestigious universities. I am referring to the majority of the students and the parents who do not hold education in the highest regard. The statistics speak for themselves. Let’s stop being in denial and admit that we have some problems in our communities and only “we” can solve them. GA Teacher, do you agree with that? Or will you choose to call me an “Oreo”.

By Snellville Mom

August 30, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Instead of complaining, putting your house up for sale and moving 5 miles up the road to find a “better” school, why don’t you get involved in the school you are in (South Gwinnett High School) and make it a better place. Just because the test scores are down does not make a school that you do not want your children to be in. My children have been part of South Gwinnett High School and have had a positive experience and have had good teachers.

By Richard

August 31, 2007 5:49 AM | Link to this

The point of my blog was not to complain about South Gwinnett HS. My daughter has had a positive experience there and my wife and I have been extremely involved in her education. I do not plan on moving because of the lower test scores; maybe the increase in crime, but that is another story. My point was that we should not be surprised that the SAT scores have fallen.

By Private school parent

August 31, 2007 6:51 AM | Link to this

Maybe things would get better if we cut property taxes in half and make ALL parents sending their kids to public schools pay up. People tend to get more involved in most any activity if you hit them directly in the pocketbook. Of course you will have those who complain thay can’t afford to pay but, they find a way to afford a lot of other things which they don’t necessarily NEED. This is one major reason kids in private schools perform better and the parents are more involved. The vast majority of people will not take care of something if it is not going to cost them anything to have it.

By annandale

August 31, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Danger, danger. Here we go again with the wrong application of statistics that makes the headlines. I guess this is the outcome of the public education. Any true statician worth his salt, knows that SAT comparison as posted in these sensational news papers are not a legitimate measure of the truth. One must be careful when comparing averages. What the reports are failing to mention are the number of students who take the exam. Also, one swallow does not make a summer.
Lets assume that 50 people take the exam with an average score 0f 1500 in school 1. In school 2 anoter 150 takes the exam with an average score of 1400. Which school has the better grade. Quite obviously school 1, but look at the population sizes. So as any good post graduate statistics text book shows, one should not just use average from one citing to make a comparison. Without getting into the gory details, suffice to say we are using numbers to sensentationalize the masses and excite them without doing extensive research to make the case. Where is Null Hypothesis when you need one?

By Rick

August 31, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Yes, in North Fulton parents are very involved…but those kids start taking the SAT from 7th Grade too…and the parents hire tutors for them from early on…My wife teaches in North Fulton so I am aware first hand…I live in Duluth and I have some neigbors who think if they put their kids in a North Fulton school, their performance will be better….Yes, historically blacks do not do well on the SAT…and it has been proven to be less of an indicator for college sucess for blacks….but if you take the economics out of the picture, I am sure the scores would be closer….Between my wife and I we have 6 college degrees and we expect and are planning for our kids to do just as well as the high performing asian studens!

By Skozoze

September 2, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

To add on to Annandale’s comments - the average is only of several statistical measures that should be used when trying to assess the nature of a sample of data. Statistically, the shape matters (did more kids fall around the average or did a few low performers skew the average), the center (median - the center is not always the same as the mean, or average), and the spread, or variation matters - were the test scores very widely spaced out, or grouped closely together? To rank a state or a school based on average is simply a good way to sell newspapers or stimulate conversation in a blog, and not a statistically meaningful way to compare performance. I know the SAT score I will care about in a few years, and that will be my daughter’s. The rest doesn’t really matter.

By Amy

September 3, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

Richard, I could not agree with you more! I have a 2 year old and one on the way, and I have to say my husband and I have this conversation almost daily. I live in Duluth, and I feel like the white people are moving out faster than I can say S-A-T! So that leaves a battle between the mexicans, the blacks, and the Asians. I have said that I prefer the Asians because they tend to be high performers acedemically. For me, a quality education is what I care about most. I will not send my kids to a school that a high number of black or hispanic children because I’m afraid of underperforming schools. I realize that this is a stereotype and it’s not true for everyone…but it is true for most. I’m just trying to make the best decision I can for my kids. Right now, we are debating whether or not to move to N.Fulton for better public schools or staying in our moderately priced home in Duluth and paying for private schools.

By Michael H. Smith

September 4, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

@ Amy

I would love to address more of your comment with reasoned intelligence but time will not allow it. So I’ll take this particular often used stereotype only because it is so often true statistically: The Asians, because they tend to be high performers academically.

One of my nieces is Korean by birth, her son is very advanced in reading to the extent his teacher wants to place him in classes several grade levels above his current age and class, including asking my niece to allow her son to help the other children in his current class in learning to read.

Is this the result of genetics? Yeah you bet it is, on the mother’s part. She spent a lot of time working with her son early on to develop those advanced reading skills and now she is doing the same with his younger brother who is dying to start school but cannot, and no doubt the same process will be used again on her youngest, the baby daughter.

Moral of the story: I’m betting Asian parents are the real high performers in taking the time needed before their children ever reach pre-K to stimulate the minds of their children to learn.

By the way, my niece speaks to her children in English and only speaks to them in Korean to teach them a second language.

By Katie

September 5, 2007 7:31 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’t expect the SAT scores to raise too much, this is Georgia. Until this State gets with the program, Georgia will always be out ranked.

By Reno

September 5, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

There is an excellent chance that you will see the scores change for the better in the not-to-distant future. Why, you ask ? Two words - Qualified Buyers. That’s right, homeowners are once again having to actually qualify for a mortgage - just like in the old days ! We should see the zero down / interest only scenerios lessen and with that you will see the incoming demographics change with the potential of a reversal in the current decline in Gwinnett - and Snellville in particular. And then the SAT scores - along with many other things - will once again be looking up. Be patient.