Political Insider

By David S

October 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Please explain why any retired government employee should deserve ANY cost of living increase EVER. Why should they even have a pension plan at ALL?

Government teachers do not provide a service in a competitive free market. Their salaries are stolen on their behalf from the hardworking taxpayers. When the economy goes down, they are never laid off, nor does their salary decline. The hard working private sector taxpayer on the other hand can be assured of an every increasing tax bill to pay for what in Georgia is one of the worst educational systems in the nation. When things like the current crisis occur, we see the negative effects of government education in the complete ignorance the general public exhibits to the real causes of the last depression and the ill effects that government intervention has on the economy.

When a private company puts together a pension plan, they must follow certain funding requirements etc. They base their plan on their current and future business expectations and sometimes those don’t always pan out. Sometimes these private companies are not able to deliver. Why should someone who works for government, and gets their salary from moneys stolen from the general public, get a better guarantee than a private business can offer?

Ask any person working in private industry today and you will find that they are lucky to get any serious increase in PAY, let alone retirement money, every year. This, despite the fact that these employees are contributing daily to the creation and sale of products that are exchanged without the use of force in the marketplace.

Why should someone who no longer contributes receive automatic increases? There is nothing so special about teachers. They work hard at convincing everyone there is, but as the homeschooling movement has shown, a superior product can be had from someone without a teaching certificate or overpriced pension plan.

Our economy is in the toilet because of the actions of government, not in spite of them. We should certainly not be rewarding any of the contributors while the rest of society suffers. It is bad enough that a measly 20 years of teaching will qualify one for retirement while the rest of us must work for decades more, not just to provide for ourselves, but to pay for the pensions plans of those who have helped undermine the education of yet another generation.

By Mike L.

October 28, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Once you say “government teachers”, the opinion becomes Neal Bortz’s and not yours. This makes you a puppet. Be original.

By Cobb Woman

October 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

David S. makes it sound like to government pays the retirement funds, and that is flat wrong.

All teachers pay their hard-earned money into the retirement system, with the expectation that the state will pay the COLAs. After all, the state has use of those retirement funds while the teacher is still active, doesn’t it?

And why does the fact that the retirement fund lost money due to Wall Street ineptness strengthen Perdue’s case? If a fund need an increase, now would be the time.

By David S

October 28, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Mike L. - these teachers work for the government. They are not employed in the private sector. Their services are not paid for with monies that are voluntarily given. They are therefore government teachers. That sounds like a FACT Mike, not an opinion. Can you tell the difference or has that whole “truth is subjective” movement that has been infiltrating the schools over the past decades confused you on the subject?

I can form my own opinions without the assistance of a clown like Neal Boortz. Is that all you can come up with as a rebuttal? My argument must be pretty sound. Thanks for the endorcement.

Cobb Woman - when a private business manages a pension plan there are definitive rules about money usage and funding levels. When values drop in the fund, monies must be paid in to bring up levels. GM is going bankrupt in large part due to the promises it made to untion auto workers regarding their pensions. In recent years they have had to pump billions in cash into their pension plans to keep them afloat.

Teachers sslaries come from involuntary theft of tax money. The government contribution comes from stolen tax dollars, and when the fund loses value because of bad investments (or a Federal Reserve induced bubble bursting) more money must be stolen from the tax payers to make up the difference. If the fund is not growning at 3% or greater to allow the COLA, then that money must be stolen as well.

In a 401K like the rest of us are forced into by government, when the value drops, we lose. Then in retirement, we must do with less and then pay higher property taxes to pay teachers in their 40’s and 50’s to sit around the house.

I don’t care what private industry does, but when the government steals from me once and then has the audacity to steal from me again it not only gets old, it gets maddening.

What ever happened to freedom? What ever happened to morality. Thall shalt not steal? Remember that?

Perdue is recognizing that the hard working private sector citizens who will be losing jobs, losing retirement funds, and possibly losing their homes should not be penalized more to benefit those who have already benefitted from an unjust financial arrangement.

By Capitol Hack

October 29, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

“I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

“Involuntary theft of tax money?” Really, David S., it’s time you go back to civics class.

Or are you an anarchist? Because if taxation is just “theft”, then who is going to pave your roads? Who will protect you and your family, enforce the laws, carry out national defense, ensure safe food and drugs, deliver water and treat your waste, regulate and provide standards for commerce, print money, promote higher education and scientific research, and do the million other things that we enjoy as a civilized society? If you think you can do all these things yourself, you are invited to retreat to some remote wilderness and give it a shot. Let us know how it works out for you.

By Jack Stilton

October 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

FYI Teacher retirement is not voluntary, it is automatically taken from your check. Only in the last couple years has a alternative non teacher retirement plan been available. These people pay into the system and the state matches just like a 401k so chill out.

By teacher in and out

October 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

I have been a university professor for 26 years and will be teaching another 11 before I can even think of retiring. I opted out of the Board of Regents retirement into TIAA (401K) a long time ago, so I can’t use the early retirement clause of Teacher Board of Regents retirement; I suffer from my losses as much as others outside the teaching system do. Since university teachers IN service do NOT necessarily get any yearly salary raise AT ALL, I do question whether COLA should get an automatic cost of living increase; certainly it has been a long time since my system has had raises equally that of COLAS.

So, just as I feel somewhat bitter about paying Social Security for elder citizens who won’t have worked as long as I will have to work—since I must work longer so that they can get their pay—I also am not invested in automatic COLAS for teacher retirement recipients.

Reading comments above, however, about teachers “stealing” tax money, while people in the private sector usually make a great deal more than teachers, especially when teachers are so much in demand and work extremely hard, in the majority, for the future of this nation, makes me greatly incensed.

And as long as I have to pay Social Security for wealthy elders, with the risk I won’t receive any myself, I would rather spend my time fuming about the 8 billion dollars in bonuses that Wall Street bail out companies are still giving to their remaining employees.

By Jack Stilton

October 29, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

FYI Teacher retirement is not voluntary, it is automatically taken from your check. Only in the last couple years has a alternative non teacher retirement plan been available. These people pay into the system and the state matches just like a 401k so chill out.

By Chip Shirley

October 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

David S…t u p i d

If things were left up to fools like you and your heroes on rightweird radio there would be no USA at all, just petty warlords.

Republicans, please listen to what Rush Limbaugh said today…

He was slamming FDR for creating Social Security, he was playing FDR’s fireside chats and saying what an awful president he was!

Limbaugh hates Obama for sounding like FDR! And he tells the same old lie that it wasn’t FDR’s public works projects that ended the Depression, but rather WWII. What a hateful fool! War is public spending too!

Limbaugh is all for war even if it’s unnecessary and unjust, but never for public spending even when it’s greatly needed.

………………………………………….. 28 Years of Republican Economics…

Even Alan Greenspan has said that, in terms of the economy, Bill Clinton was a Republican, because he signed the free trade deals that the Republicans had sought forever and which were passed by almost all Republicans in congress. If you consider Clinton a Republican economically, then we’ve had the last 28 straight years of Republican economic policies, Bush, Bush Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Reagan.

28 years of lessening corporate regulation, cutting social programs, cutting spending on public works, lowering taxes on the top 1% allowing more and more free trade and illegal immigration. Look where we are now.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

The Teachers Retirement System would still be an extremely attractive retirement plan even with a smaller COLA. As a participant in the Optional Retirement Plan (ORP) who has seen his stock investments fall 35% this year, TRS still looks pretty darn good. I would love to switch so that my retirement benefits would be comparable to TRS even with a COLA reduction. How about putting ORP and TRS on parity?

By Sam1234

October 29, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Obama is a sleeper Muslim. He is not even an American Citizen. He was not born in this country. He is hiding his birth certificate.

By j

October 30, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

Actually, being one of these dreaded “govenment teachers” I can tell you that I contribute 5% of my salary annually to the TRS— just like you contribute a percentage of your income to your IRA or 401k. The university system also contributes to the total contribution, just like your employer does with your 401k.

The total contribution (my money and system money) earns dividends and interest just like it would in an IRA or 401k. I have the option of getting a private IRA or 401k on top of the pension plan if I can afford to contirbute to one— a big IF, considering the fact that my salary is lower than that of most professors at big private schools and I may not get an annual raise.

In fact— whether you realize it or not—a 401k plan is technically a pension plan because your employer contributes matching funds to it. So the money in your 401k is not exculsively your hard-earned cash (and, if it is, your employer is cheap). In effect, according to your definition of stolen money—you are getting stolen money from your employer when they make the matching contribution to your 401k. This is no different from my pension plan, only my employer is the state.

So, Dave S.—- your idea that a 401k is your hard earned cash and nothing else is completely wrong.

And, if you think teacher’s salaries are stolen from the government or the tax payers, you are suggesting that education should be completely privatized. I guess you never went to a public school or a low-cost state college or university, which exist specifically to avoid returning us to the 19th century when only the rich could go to school beyond 8th grade.

If you really want to pay $40k TO $60K in tuition to send your kids to college instead of about $9,000 at a GA state school, go for it. I’ll take the pay increase that would give me. I did my graduate degree at a big private university and my professors were making 3 to 4 times what I make at a state college. My salary is low so your kids can afford college. So leave my retirement alone, Fool— because it’s about the only perk there is to being underpaid (in relation to the rest of my profession) for 35 years.

By Doug Roberts

October 30, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this

The TRS has been doing OK since 1969. Why is it in such trouble now? Well it’s not. The Gov. is just making another Grand Stand move that means nothing.When I frist entered TRS it was 6% of my salary, now it’s 5%. So what’s the problem with keeping the 3% raise.

By Jeff Kluball

October 30, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

My wife and I are life long educators about to retire. Do not change the rules or possible benefits for us this far into our career. The current system is in good financial shape as is an it provides good retirement benefits. The current TRS is a good draw for professional educators to come to Georgia and teach for their careers. Long term benefits should not be at the whims of the board. There is no need for change. Keep it as is. It is not broke-do not try and fix it!!!!!!!!

By Captain P-Card

October 30, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I have read several articles lately stressing the fact that the TRS pension plan is in good shape overall. It’s investments are long-term, and it has systems set up to limit losses during market downturns such as the one we are experiencing now. Therefore, it’s hard for me to understand how Perdue can claim that short-term losses are grounds for taking away the automatic COLA. The COLA has never been increased during the boom years of the market when the pension fund was growing by leaps and bounds. If we don’t share in the extra profits from these years, then why should we be asked to bear the brunt of current short-term losses? This is sheer hypocrisy and shows selfish, short-term thinking. Warren Buffet, the greatest American investor of our times, continually stresses the need for long-term thinking and policies. Perhaps Perdue should do his homework and start looking out for the long-term economic good of someone besides himself. People who work in the private sector should also realize that those of us with advanced degrees who have chosen to teach don’t make anything even close to what we would make in the private sector. We work for years making low salaries and getting raises only when the legislature and governor feel so inclined. The only advantage we have is a guaranteed benefits retirement program. The COLA is an essential feature because it helps to compensate for the fact that the dollars we paid into the program over 30 years were worth a great deal more than the dollars we get back due to persistent inflation. Without inflation protection, pension plans become poverty plans over time. If GA citizens want to find where huge amounts of wasted money are going in the higher education system, take a look at administrative salaries, at the ever increasing number of career bureaucrats in colleges and universities, at the huge salaries and expense accounts of the Regents’ Systems Office administrators downtown, at the millions of education dollars flowing to developers, contractors, and tech providers, at all of the kickbacks flowing into systems foundation funds. That’s where money is being “stolen,” not by hard working teachers and faculty. Anyone can go to the state audit site for higher education and see these salaries, and I highly recommend that all GA taxpayers do this. I have watched this snake dance for 32 years, and it has gotten much worse during the past ten years. As long as politicians and bureaucrats continue to manipulate and pillage the system, we will not see improvement in education in GA.

By Murray

October 30, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

“Please explain why any retired government employee should deserve ANY cost of living increase EVER. Why should they even have a pension plan at ALL?”

I will gladly explain all of this too you, David, as soon as you explain to me why you should be allowed to breath my air.

By Matthew

October 30, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Those of you who want to see the COLA reduced or eliminated need to remember one thing. Teachers have several options for retirement- all of which have a contract. The TRS contract indicates that COLA will be granted to retirees. So to those of you who would like to see COLAs disappear—- Would you like your retirement plan contract broken? Would you like your IRA, 401K, etc. to be taken back or mismanaged by your employer? The teachers contributed a decent chunk of their career pay into this system and what reducing COLA would amount to is the government robbing Peter (the teachers) to pay Paul (the government who mismanaged the fund). I’m in no way a fan of government education but this is a matter of doing what is right for people who worked their entire life. If the state government wants to cut budgets- they need to look at programs that are targeted at people who obviously do not work and expect handouts.

By Murray

October 30, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

“Please explain why any retired government employee should deserve ANY cost of living increase EVER. Why should they even have a pension plan at ALL?”

I will gladly explain all of this too you, David, as soon as you explain to me why you should be allowed to breath my air.

By John

October 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

We had no choice but to participate in the Teacher Retirement System. I was forced to participate. During all that time when my salary was lower than most of my schoolmates with equal degrees, job advertisements, pep talks, newspapers and politicians all stated words to the effect that “At least you have a good retirement system.” The 1.5% raise every six months does NOT keep up with inflation. Sure there are a few years every now and then when the raises do exceed the cost of living increase. But, you can check it out, teacher retirement does not keep up with inflation over the expected life span of any retired teacher.

Now that I am retired, they want to change the system for which I paid and sacrificed all those years. They want me to accept even less remuneration thatn was promised. Some business. Some contract.

As for all of David’s ad hominen arguments, misconceptions about the constitutionally required role of the state in education, unfounded judgements about taxes, and various implied arguments; I can only conclude that he is a jerk. Look it up, David. You personify it.

By Patricia B. Kerr

October 30, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Please leave our retirement alone. We have work long and hard under circumstances that sometimes are not the most favorable. And now to take what we have worked for and waited for to be reduced is not appreciated or fair.

By Ray

October 31, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

The arguments about whether or not government employees should enjoy pensions are credible. However please consider the following:

Thus, TRS is their ultimate safety net against starvation in the event of an economic catastrophe soon after they retire. (I understand Social Security;s problems, but don’t believe its politically feasible to assume it will not survive in some form for at least the bottom of the income scale).

Most of us do our best to be prepared when retirement comes. But, how many of us would be able survive a populist government’s decision to treat our national debt problem with a few years of 10% inflation … after we retire?