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DEL.ICIO.USThe serious side of a Tennessee-Georgia border war
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
“You’ve got to see this. Who’s got Google Earth on their computer?”
The demand came from a shirt-sleeved Sonny Perdue on Friday, and was directed at a staff bunkered in one of his basement offices in the State Capitol.
An aide quickly fired up the requested program. “I’ll take over from here,” the governor said. Perdue bumped the aide from his seat and grabbed the mouse.
A satellite image of Georgia’s northwest corner flashed on the screen. Perdue put the cursor — in the shape of a small fist — on the state border. The latitude read 34.59 degrees.
But the Georgia Code puts the Georgia-Tennessee border at 35 degrees north of the equator. Perdue moved his cursor northward into Tennessee, until the computer read-out hit the 35th parallel.
The small fist had grabbed the middle of Nickajack Lake, a reservoir fed by a brief swath of the Tennessee River that could water north Georgia for decades to come.
“Look at that,” the governor marveled.
Last week, the House and Senate passed separate measures requiring the state of Georgia to revisit its longstanding border dispute with Tennessee. The legislation was immediately pronounced an international punchline. The state Senate encouraged the giggles by singing a round of “This Land Is My Land” prior to unanimous passage.
But don’t be fooled. The people involved in this are looking at a water shortage, exacerbated by drought, that could jeopardize thousands of billions of dollars in development over the next 50 years. A wet state grows, a dry one stagnates — and the competition with neighbors is fearsome.
Sponsors of the legislation are as serious as a heart attack.
“I don’t think it’s a gimmick,” Perdue told reporters a few hours after his computer demonstration. But the enthusiasm the governor showed in the basement had shifted to a diplomatic practicality.
“I think we have to be very careful in the way we proceed in this effort. As it gets more and more serious, the people of Tennessee get more and more concerned. There was probably a better way to do this — legislation’s a sort of in-your-face sort of thing,” the governor said.
The idea for the border challenge sprang from a conversation about 10 months ago between Brad Carver, a 36-year-old utilities lawyer in Atlanta, and a water expert with the University of Mississippi.
The pair drew up a confidential, 19-page memo that outlined the history of Georgia’s 190-year dispute with Tennessee, and offered advice on how Georgia might finally win the argument and gain access to a river with 15 times the flow of the Chattahoochee River at Buford Dam.
“As the drought got worse, this made more and more sense. We can’t conserve our way to a solution,” Carver said. The state is growing too fast, he said — and the only alternatives are desalination plants on the Atlantic coast, and the Tennessee River.
Carver handed the outline to state Rep. Harry Geisinger (R-Roswell), a former power company man who was in the Legislature when the border issue was last tackled in 1971, and state Sen. David Shafer (R-Duluth), chairman of the Senate utilities committee.
You can see the memo here. It contains some spectacular maps.
For Georgia, the Tennessee River has every advantage over coastal desalination plants. Save for a single mountain range, the flow would be mostly downhill. “The right-of-way is already acquired. It’s Interstate 75,” Geisinger said. A pipeline would connect Atlanta and Chattanooga in revolutionary fashion.
Many people, including Perdue, have noted that moving a state boundary would be unprecedented in modern times — and thus might seem Herculean. (Ironically, Tennesee forced Mississippi in 1890 to move its border south. Because it violated the 35th parallel.)
But remember that neither land nor lines are the object here. Water is.
“Behind all this, it’s clear that the Tennessee River is the most important part of this idea,” Carver said.
No one will admit to it, but the underlying strategy appears to be this:
For the last eight years, the state of Tennessee has rebuffed the idea of sharing any water with metro Atlanta. Build a strong enough court case with the border issue and perhaps Georgia would agree to let Tennessee keep the current line — so long as Georgia gets the water it needs.
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Comments
By Olddog
February 24, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
When Your Back Is Against The Wall,… This is a legal issue now, no more begging for water it seems. You Go! Georgia!
Ha! Ha!
By Olddog
February 24, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
When Your Back Is Against The Wall,… This is a legal issue now, no more begging for water it seems. You Go! Georgia!
Ha! Ha!
By Tennesseean
February 24, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Keep your greedy Geogrian hands off Tennessee water.
By JJMB
February 24, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Keep your greedy Geogrian hands off Tennessee water.
Looks like your Tennessean hands have been stealing Georgian water for about TWO centuries.
It’ll go to the Supreme Court in about 5 years.
BTW, Florida and Alabama “steal” Georgia water everyday. Welcome to the United States.
By Olddog
February 24, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
In the old days it was a shooting offense to keep someone from their water. Especially when there is so much of it and by keeping the other guy out you’re being the instrument of their demise. It may not be the old days now,…but the game is on and you will lose,….
By Billy Bob
February 25, 2008 6:24 AM | Link to this
No doubt Ga Power and AL Power will guide the process as the governor will want to make sure he has thier “6” covered on this water grab too- just like on the ACF.
They will sign a confidentiality agreement to protect the public as Georgia pursues the waters of Tennessee. This will assure that GA Power’s “substantial” interests in this demand for water from the Tennessee are covered and protected.
The AJC will also will protect the public and not investigate and report this involvement to assure the “public’s” interest is well protected.
Happy days & sleep tight tonight, GA Power will make sure we get all the water that flows in the Tennessee river.(TVA better watch out- their days are numbered now!)
By Perdufus get a Life
February 25, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
How can we assume that it’s ok to pipe the water to Atlanta even if the river is in Georgia? We all assume the pipeline would be super cheap and easy. Hogwash.
Maybe Atlanta running out of water and stifling growth is a good thing. Maybe some other better managed towns and states should get some growth this century.
You mean to tell me Atlanta is a model city and should be rewarded with tons of water? Yeah right.
By chief alewife
February 25, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
I just Googled the elevations of Chattanooga TN and Atlanta GA. Perhaps these brilliant engineers and statesmen should also do that. It is not “mostly downhill” from 685 feet to 1000 feet. The fact that one place is north of another on a map does not mean it is also higher above sea level.
By karen
February 25, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
It is (almost) unbelievable that instead of providing incentives for water conservation, which could cut Atlanta’s water use by at least 10% with no pain, Perdue embarks on an expensive legal fight with harmless ole Tennessee.
By MAD
February 25, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Chief Alewife,
Please stop talking, you’re making yourself look stupid.
By Look it up
February 25, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Look up the Los Angeles and California aqueducts that involve moving water hundreds of miles and at times up hundreds of feet in elevation. It is neither unprecendented or impossible for a large growing population to grab water from distant neighbors.
By Now hug this
February 25, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Dear Perdufus get a life, But if the other towns and states were better managed and superior to Atlanta, wouldn’t people want to move there instead?
By Tim C
February 25, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
As Mark Twain said, whiskey’s for drinkin’ and water is for fightin’ over.
By Mike
February 25, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Even if they moved border and gave GA some authority over the river, the TVA could trump them as they are a Federal group and have claim to the river already.
By Rockl
February 25, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
After reading Brad Carver’s research paper, I can certainly understand why the Georgia General Assembly is taking such an “in your face” approach with Tennessee. It’s clear that previous, less forceful, attempts to work with them in resolving the faulty survey were all resisted.
The bottom line is that the state of Georgia never accepted, and has repeatedly protested the incorrect survey since before the civil war. Legal precedence established by similar state border cases in the US all support the Georgia General Assembly’s position.
It’s not Georgia’s fault that Tennessee has ignored the problem for 190 years.
By Brad Carver
February 25, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Thanks for your comment, Rockl. We’ve spent a considerable amount of time looking at this issue and we feel that Georgia does have a strong legal position. And, to answer some of the critics above, the State of Georgia uses a fairly significant a mount of water less per capita than the State of Tennessee. We also feel that the Statewide Water Plan was very important. We must look at demand side as well as supply side solutions. Conservation alone, however, will not solve the State of Georgia’s problem.
By BongWater
February 25, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
The border has been recognized by GA and TN as it is for at least 150-200 years. I would say that pretty well establishes the border. And that is what a court will say as well. Sorry Sonny…you lose!…Again!
By Hobnailed boot
February 25, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Well if Sonny ever runs for president, we know one southern state he will definitely lose. HA!
By hazer
February 25, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
This should be a pretty cut-and-dried legal decision. As there is precedent, when in 1890 TN forced MS to march their state line south down to the 35th parallel. The same 35th parallel that’s the “official” state border, by law, between TN and GA. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander (C;
By MrLiberty
February 25, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
NY City gets its water from 42 miles away through now 3 underground pipes that were first built in 1910. The Panama canal took only 10 years to build. The Alaska pipeline took only 2 1/2 years to build. 10 years ago we were in nearly the same drought condition. During those 10 years we could have easily negotiated rights to the Tennessee river, to various lakes and streams throughout the Appalachians, Smokies, etc. and easily had built a series of pipelines to carry that water… BUT NOOOOOOOOO!
Instead, the so-called leader of this state (and you know who you are) took huge donations from developers and thier related minions all to block impact fees and the other needed dollars that any other PRIVATE company would have charged for access to the limited resources in this state like land, air, water, roadways, sewers, etc.
I’ve asked this about education before and now I will ask it about water. We know how important food is to our existence, so we don’t let the government control its distribution. If water and education are so important, why do we continue to let government control them.
Government is nothing but failure, packaged in the nice brown-shirted wrapper of nationalism. Seriously though, what private company would continue to let everyone ravenously consume their only product with no concern about future sources.
Oh I forgot, we have the wonderful Sonny Perdue backup plan - prayer.
This from the same jerk that tells us to go screw ourselves if we ever hope for freedom in this state - we are instead supposed to practise better time management with regards to buying liquor. Well maybe you should practise better water management.
By MrLiberty
February 25, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Forgive my spelling.
In paragraph 2 I meant to say LEADERS, not leader. I would hate to imply only one person in 10 years, when every county commissioner, every state legislator, every mayor, every person working for the department of natural resources, and every one pretending to care about the citizens of this state while living off the involuntary tax contributions that paid their undeserved salary.
And while we are at it, there is certainly no reason to stop at ony 10 years back. It is obvious that the political corruption problem in this state has been going on WAY longer than that.
By morgan
February 25, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Stop being so greedy and just build the desalination plants already. Landlocked states don’t have that option.
By Neil
February 25, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
This whole thing is rediculous and the greedy ones appear to be TN. I have recently moved to GA, so I know little about the history beyond what I’ve read, but it seems as if the TN River can easily support the transfer of water to Atlanta. The TVA has acknowledged that fact, and despite what appears to be a factual legal claim by GA, Tennessee could easily allow access to the water. Instead they have gone out of their way to block GA from accessing it, dating back long before Atlanta was anything more than a sleepy southern city.
By Churchill
February 25, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Well I don’t know about the entire state of TN, Neil, but TN fans are the worst people in the world. No Joke. I’d rather hang out with a bunch of liberals, than with TN fans.
By Bob
February 25, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Outrageous. This will amount to NOTHING, GUARANTEED. Georgia, this is YOUR problem. You FAILED to plan. Now DEAL WITH IT YOURSELF.
Give me a break. Man, they say Tennessee is redneck. Georgia needs to look at itself in the mirror. Keep it up though, Georgia. We’ll keep beating you in sports and have quite a few chuckles along the way about this STUPID “plan.”
By Neil
February 25, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
Bob, sit downn, take a breath and a drink of water from the Tennessee river.
I fail to understand how moving the border to where it is legally supposed to be is anything other than at least “legally correct”. Now I think many will agree that because of history and the amount of time that has passed, it may not make sense to actually move the border, but GA should be given right of way to access the river at the closet point.
This isn’t the case of GA just waking up and deciding to try and grab some water. This is the case of an incorrectly marked border and the unwillingness of Tennessee to correct that mistake, going back nearly 200 years.
By Jack Carmack
February 26, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
Like many other new to this issue, Bob needs to study the facts at hand before voicing such meaningless gibberish.
Bob, the truth may hurt, but the truth is the truth. Rather than spending your valuable time spouting-off at everyone with differing opinions, why not do a bit of online research to learn the real facts?
By Bob Bain
February 26, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
If this keeps on then someone will end up getting killed. It is stupid and shouldn’t even be considered.
If Georgia wants water then maybe they should learn to deal with the water supply they currently have. Or, we could charge them 5 million per barrel of fresh Tennessee water.
By Bob
February 26, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Folks, it’s really pretty simple. The ONLY reason this is being talked about NOW is due to drought, caused by GA’s inability to plan for urban growth. If it weren’t for that, we wouldn’t be here.
Personally, I have no problem allowing GA to have access. I do, however, have a problem with changing the border. People in TN do not want to become GA citizens. They shouldn’t be forced to do this. Many of them left GA because of its tax policy.
I do have a question for all you Georgians: You folks have the Atlantic right next door. Why the heck can’t you built desalination plants? You’d have a hell of a lot of water and you wouldn’t have to go through the time, money, and effort of fighting this in court, where you know it is going to go.
By RobW
February 26, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
A couple of notes on comments I have read.
1. This is nothing new, the Georgia Legislature has tried to address this with it’s neighbor to the north on at least 4 separate occasions. Tennessee has simply not gone to the bartering table. 2. The Tennessee River is an interstate, navigable waterway, and as such, is property of the Federal Government, not Tennessee or Georgia and when (notice I did not say IF) Georgia gets this addressed via the US Supreme Court, they will have to get water removal permits from the Federal Government, just like all other states that draw from it do. 3. There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt that the large basin just north and east of the damn is at the 35th parrallel.
4. As noted in prior documentation, Tennessee forced Mississippi to move it’s “perceived border” (EXACTLY AS IS THE CASE HERE) just after the Civil War. (Incidently, this boundary was also the 35th parralel.) 5. Southern Company will have no way of laying claim to this water as a resource for power generation. Nor to they have reason to. Southern Company is one of the few power generation and distribution companies that has adequate facilities for both.
6. For approximately 3 to 4 miles, the water will need to be pumped uphill (from ~650 feet to ~1450 feet), From there, using existing right of ways, it will be a downhill drop to ~850 feet to Lake Allatoona which could easily work as a receiving basin for the water. The cost for the pumping would add ~50 to 75 dollars per million gallons. (A substantial amount, but negligable relative to the capital costs required)
Finally, I believe that this move of the border WILL occur. There is really no other way around it. Precedent has been set and there is no question as to the legality of the border location. The only real question is how many lawyers are going to get rich settling the issue.
Note: I am a hydraulic engineering consultant and can assure you that this project is not only doable, but it’s been done before, both here in the US as well in in Europe.
By Reggie Crocket
February 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
One point of calrification about Google Earth referenced in the blog.
If you download and install the Google “Earth” application it actually shows the GA-TN-AL border at the correct legal location, 35 parallel in the middle of Nickajack lake.
If you don’t install the Google “Earth” application and simply surf to Google “Maps” instead, it shows the currently observed incorrect state-line….
By LIsa
February 27, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
So who give a f*** let them do what they wont
By TB
February 28, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
I’m sure the Cherokee Nation would be interested in border rectification with the State of Georgia.
By SA
February 29, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
That is a great idea TB. I’m sure that Georgia will be ready as soon as the Cherokee Nation completes its border rectification with Tennessee and North Carolina…
By d
March 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
yeh. georgia is the type of state that would funnel the tennessee river directly to coca cola’s door step. besides.. if we want to go deep in history. ill be glad to take you on a tour of red clay right on the GA/TN border.. and we can discuss stolen land..
By d
March 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
yeh. georgia is the type of state that would funnel the tennessee river directly to coca cola’s door step. besides.. if we want to go deep in history. ill be glad to take you on a tour of red clay right on the GA/TN border.. and we can discuss stolen land..
By d
March 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
yeh. georgia is the type of state that would funnel the tennessee river directly to coca cola’s door step. besides.. if we want to go deep in history. ill be glad to take you on a tour of red clay right on the GA/TN border.. and we can discuss stolen land..
By Jason
March 29, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this
Tennessee people are smart to hang on to the water they have. The river won’t be enough to supply the city of Atlanta. To many greedy people move to Atlanta. They need to build desalination plants and use the rising ocean waters.