Political Insider

By buck

March 20, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

will this bill appply to Irish Twins? I understand they are very common among conservative families.

By stupid conservatives

March 20, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

always claim to be for small government, but will go to any length to push their agenda. Liberals, when they are for big government, at least usually have some common good in mind (meaning universally regarded as good, unlike the usual Christian moral majority “good” that is pushed—i.e., abstinence-only education, laws against consenting adult sexual and drug use, etc.) Please tell me these three don’t all have twins. Tell me it’s just the children of one of their biggest campaign contributors.

By Mike K.

March 20, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

First, he said, in his book, parents are at the top of any public school hierarchy, followed by teachers and school boards. In that order.

At least now we know who to blame for the education problems in Georgia.

By JustMe

March 20, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

what a waste of politicans time. aren’t there more important things for them to do?

By lopro

March 20, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Wow, this is retarded on its face but dangerous when looked into more thoroughly. As the blogger points out, why is a conservative state Senator reaching into the affairs of a very localized governmental body? This is encroachment from the state heirarchy. What happened to Dillon’s Rule? Where are the libertarians when you need them?

By shelbinator

March 20, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

They’re called n-tuplets; nerds already had a word for it. But I guess that’s another problem with the school system….

By Aquagirl

March 20, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

Yes, Republicans screech that red-light cameras are a violation of rights for careless idiots who endanger other people. But a Republican Senator telling a school what student should be in what class when, that’s just fine! I wonder how a teacher feels about the “limited government” party that dictates who’s in her individual class?

And you can bet any legislation with Nancy Schaefer’s name on it is scary to normal folks.

By Gotyourhandsfull.com

March 20, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe this - there can’t be many parents who would want to insist their twins, triplets or quads should be in the same class, surely?

It’s one of the biggest questions facing a multiple birth family when the children start school - and many, I would dare to suggest, favour different classes to help encourage individuality. The things you mention such as “the same gifts to teacher” may well be easier, but so what! The children have to learn they won’t always be there for each other! All best.

By HB

March 20, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Wow. A state law for one complaining mother in one school in one county. Gotyourhandsfull is right. I’ve known many parents of mulitples who preferred to have their children split up to encourage individuality. Where’s their law? This one mandates twins be kept together if the parents want it, but there’s no provision for parents requesting separate classrooms.

A mere 40 days to handle all legislative business for the year, and this nonsense makes it to the floor. The authors of the bill and all committee members who voted to send it on up the ladder should be impeached!

By MBW

March 20, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, all I can say is that this is ridiculous and I hope that schools and legislators will see it as such.

What’s next? “My child can only be put in a class with a teacher who will give him an A” ?

It’s because of parents like this that our schools have their hands tied on enforcing rules and giving fair grades.

Schools should makes choices about what is best for the children at the school…not what is most “convenient” for parents.

By MBW

March 20, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

It’s one thing to be concerned about your child’s education…but’s it’s just plain silly to ask for a class change just because you don’t want to have to buy two teacher gifts at holiday time…get a life.

By GB

March 20, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Ok some of the comments here make me want to reach out and do some teaching - as if it would take. It is not about having to “buy two teacher gifts” as one obviously educated writer states or about the state government getting involved in a small, inconsequential issue.

The number of twins and higher order multiples (yes, for the other highly educated writer, this is a medical term) continues to grow with advances in medical science that allow couples who long to raise a family but have trouble concieving to have their own children. Oh, sorry, that surely will raise some hackles of some overly conservative, condescending religiously righteous people. But in any case, there is scientific evidence that children (or do you all miss the fact we are talking about children) that are forcibly separated into classrooms despite their parents’ knowing intervention do poorly in shcool.

Oh, wait…a parent wants the right to help educate their child??!!!?? Say no. I guess all the so-called experts in the school districts who continue to use 1940’s and 1950’s ideas should hold sway over the rights of parents to be part of decisions on the well-being of their children in school.

While the good Senator’s explanation may have fell short, the intent of the law is far more important than some of the ignorant comments listed in this column, including those of the trained “journalists” who one would hope would do some research before running off at the pen.

Good luck Georgia; the next generation of your kin folk will be still wanting for education if you continue to be held to the views expressed in this piece…

By Kathy Dolan

March 20, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

Alright enough already!!!! Encouraging individuality by separating children is nothing short of an old wives tale, already put to rest by decades of twin research. Children will form their own identities whether or not they are schooled together in the same classroom. Do a little research and understand exactly why this legislation is SO IMPORTANT. Studies have shown, that multiples who are forcebly separated have long term internalizing problems and poorer reading scores than those who were allowed to remain in the same classroom. This is nothing more than another form of discrimination in this country. Rules based upon the condition of ones birth and not upon their individual needs. If it were based on race or religion, this would be all over the air waves and everyone would be shouting from the rooftops- STOP. Parents know their children best and absolutely must have a decision on their multiple birth childrens placement in the classroom, especially since those in charge of our educational system, though well intentioned, continue to be so misguided as to the facts. The only thing that should be mandatory is CHOICE!

By MBW

March 20, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

In response to GB, Kathy, and others,

I agree that parents DO know their children best, and should be able to have some degree of input in those kinds of decisions….but we also must ask: where should we draw the line??

I think this bill, while well-intended, will cause schools to spend more time dealing with parent complaint and interference. Yes, many parents DO know what’s best for their kids….but there are also many, sadly, who do NOT.

Some other points to consider:

-Why should parents of twins have a choice about teachers over other parents? Should they be the only ones allowed to choose? If not, how do you decide who does? To allow everyone to choose, I say, would cause many problems

-You are correct that not all schools have good administrations…but having been in the classroom, I can also testify that schools need to have the ability to carry out administrative tasks like scheduling and discipline without parents swooping in to “rescue” their children from difficult situations.

-Part of growing up means that you sometimes have to deal with people you may not like and may have to be able to be in situations without your friends/relatives.

By MBW

March 20, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

I would also like to point out that there is a difference between parental involvement and parental interference:

Parental involvement (GOOD)= know what’s going on at your child’s school, knowing the teachers, and knowing what the kids are learning….and following up on that at home….and volunteering as you are able. Keeping lines of communication open.

Parental interference (BAD)= Parents who try to micromanage every decision the school makes….parents who refuse to let schools discipline the students….parents who ask teachers to change/inflate students’ grades.

Unfortunately, part of the reason our schools struggle is because many parents choose to “interfere” rather than become “involved”.

Schools need 1 competent principal….NOT 550 of them.

By Nan Cooper

March 21, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this

This is critically important legislation to the 1 in 30 parents who have twins or higher order multiples (and yes that is a medical term and one used in ALL documentation concerning triplets, quadruplets, etc. — do some research). When educators insist on using 40-year-old research and anecdotal information to make polices, then the parents and government (unfortunately) must step in. Review the research and interview some parents of multiples before printing the next in this series of articles — maybe then you’ll get it right.

By Thank You Sir, May I Have Another?

March 21, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

Hey, did you hear the one about how the AJC is now hiring HILLBILLY IGNORAMUSES, letting them EMBARRASS themselves by writing and posting pieces about subjects that they’re TOO LAZY to research, and then inviting others to “EXPLAIN” the subject matter to them? Sorry…No punchline, because it’s TRUE!!

What a couple of mealy-mouthed Hicks who can’t even do a Google search or attend a Committee Hearing before spewing off at the mouth and making Georgians look like Bumpkins who do all of their research with a paper bag over their heads…I’m embarrassed FOR THEM, since they’re TOO IGNORANT to realize just how stupid this title and “journalistic report” makes them look!

By a fellow concerned parent

March 21, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this

HB: Impeach the authors and committee members?? Are you kidding me?

Perhaps you suggest impeaching the entire Georgia Senate, since “this nonsense” PASSED UNANIMOUSLY yesterday!!

Way to go GEORGIA! This is GREAT NEWS for those of us still fighting school officials who forcibly separate our 5-year old twins so they can “become individuals”. If our children weren’t forced into one-size-fits-all policies practiced by school officials (who claim to “not have” formal policies on the classroom placement of twins and higher-order multiples) SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THEIR BIRTH ORDER, then legislative intervention would not be necessary.

Twins are already premature, low birth weight babies who tend to struggle with language and cognitive hurdles that most parents of singletons simply do not understand or have to address. Many, MANY school systems add emotional and psychological trauma to these innocent kids by forcibly separating them from their God-given Best Friend for Life for the FIRST TIME in their lives when they enter the strange new environment of the Public School System.

This practice has been PROVEN through research to actually CAUSE social and academic problems in twins where these problems DID NOT EXIST before. If school officials would review the findings of THE TULLY REPORT and allow input from parents of twins instead of blindly practicing BLANKET POLICIES that are not supported by research, then parents would not have to “delve” into subjects that competent administrators SHOULD handle according to the needs of the individual children.

Are we really concerned that no child be left behind, or is that just the latest catchphrase? Once either one or both of the twins suffers trauma from this forced separation, then they continually have trouble focusing on school lessons due to an overwhelming preoccupation with wondering minute-by-minute, day after day if their twin is “OK and safe” and what they did SO WRONG that they HAD to be separated!?!? That’s a heavy guilt complex to throw on a 5-year old who is supposed to be learning school lessons…They can only process so much because they aren’t adults yet, even though many adults would buckle under similar pressure and circumstances. Some twins even suffer PHYSICAL damage from this practice, such as biting their fingers or hands until they BLEED.

Of course, the monetary effect (for those of you only concerned with such) is that these kids become a BURDEN to the school system until they “catch up”…If they EVER do. Research has also shown the problems created by FORCED SEPARATION do persist over time, and I would argue that the effects could even last an entire lifetime.

It’s unbelievable how so many uninformed individuals feel the need to chime in on a subject when they clearly have no idea what they’re talking about…This is evident from the many QUESTIONS posed by bloggers in their posts, while they hammer away at parents who are fighting for their right to choose how their twins/multiples enter the Georgia Public School System that they pay for through their tax dollars just like everyone else!

BRAVO again to the parents of Georgia who are leading this campaign to just let us decide how the delicate dynamics between our twins (especially IDENTICAL twins who share the same exact DNA) should be appreciated, and even protected, during the early school years when so much is occurring in their young lives. This is clearly a choice better made by the parents than by school officials who’ve never even met our twins and couldn’t tell them apart if they were standing directly in front of them.

Unfortunately, most parents of twins are simply told, “We separate ALL twins at our school.” And that’s WHY this legislation (however nonsensical it appears to some) is absolutely the RIGHT thing to do and this law will SAVE Georgians Tax Dollars that would normally be spent year after year just trying to correct the damage inflicted upon these children by school officials who simply think that all twins are alike and apply blanket and discriminatory policies to them as if they were just cattle…

By TwinMomStruggling

March 21, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

I am a mother of 6y/o identical twin girls dealing with school administrators who are adamant that twins be in different classes. I see the results of their decision at home - my daughters have started hating school in 1st grade.

In response to MBW: - We are not able to ask for specific teachers. Just that our twins be kept in the same class. - We agree the teachers need to be able to carry out their job with our HELP, not our interference. We are not trying to change grades, change teachers, change the classroom setting. Only the classroom placement. - Growing up does mean learning to deal with people you don’t like, etc. But having children hating school in early elem is a problem for everyone. The children are too young to understand they aren’t being punished. They don’t understand why one has a class full of friends and the other a class of strangers. Why one’s teacher is warm and fuzzy and the other’s teacher is jumpy and stressed. Why the one bringing home better homework scores receives lower grades than the other. We have other issues with the separation, including having educators who don’t know the difference SENDING them to the wrong classes. The girls have spent their day in fear of getting in trouble, then discover that might be a fun game to play because no one figured it out.

I would like to add that out of about 10 sets of twins in our elem, I am the only one with identical twins and the only one who feels mine will benefit from being together. If there is an average of one parent per public school in GA with this problem, there will be about 4,000 parents being ignored by pompous school administrators.

I want to support the school, but it has to work both ways. When they don’t even listen to my concerns based on their prejudice, parents need to have support.

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Sounds like somebody had a litter.

By MBW

March 21, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

To TwinMomStruggling,

Your point is well taken…thanks for stating it more civilly than others on this blog….

I agree with you that schools should listen to parents who have reasonable concerns like your own. Some twins do well together, while others do well apart. Schools should be flexible in accomodating that.

As I stated before, my concerns stem more from the potential for parents to be given free reign to micromanaged every decision the schools make. Sometimes schools get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. The key is to have open communication.

I just know that, as a teacher, I have felt pressured by administrators in the past to give a higher grade to a student or to give a lesser punishment to a particular student because they tell me “that parent will come up here and raise hell”

I personally love it when parents are involved in positive ways, but I just have concerns about parents getting too involved in grades and discipline.

By Dana

March 21, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

I have to say that I am a mother of twins that I DO WANT TO BE SEPARATED for them to gain their own independence. But, what right do any of you people who do not have higher order multiples have to even comment on this issue? I dare say NONE! So shut your pie hole! It is not about the mothers having to buy two Christmas gifts, or two sets of homework, they would have that if their kids were of different ages. It IS about the fact that the multiples have been together pretty much every minute since birth and they feel like they are “ONE”, then all of a sudden people who don’t even know them or care about thier best interests are forcing them to be separated!!! It needs to be done when the CHILDREN are ready and only the children and the parents know when that is! This is about choice, the parents choice, aho are the ones that care about and love the kids, not the school system who could give a rats but about the kids. To them the kids are just a number! NONE of you know what a multiples bond is like, nor do I, eventhough I have a set of twins. So, you have no right to even comment on this issue! And whoever said “parents are at the top of any public school hierarchy, followed by teachers and school boards. In that order.” needs to have their head examined! Parents don’t have ANY control over their kids education as evidenced by all of the “homosexual agendas” that are being taught in the public schools (if you don’t believe this then go to the following webpage and read ALL of the articles, make sure to look at the articles on the bottom of the page—http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54683), not to mention the fact that kids can’t even pray, bring Bibles, etc. to school. And if parents don’t agree with all of that and they choose to try to homeschool, they are being fought over that too, to the point of kids being removed from their parents home, just because they choos e to homeschool. And discipline, we aren’t even allowed to do that, “because it will mess up their self-esteem”. That is why the kids are so screwed up in America! So, those of you who don’t have multiples, this is none of your business, you can’t even begin to understand, so GO GET A LIFE, and worry about things that matter to YOU!!!!

By Gotyourhandsfull.com

March 21, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

There are some really interesting repsonses here and there are also some over at Link: http://www.gotyourhandsfull.com/2007/03/senators_campai.html

The mums who have posted here have helped me understand a lot more about this. Thank you. I said initially I couldn’t believe it - I’m still not sure that a law is needed but do now better grasp the concerns behind it.

Not sure that a comment about “someone having a litter” is entirely helpful though.

By Triplet Mom

March 21, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

As a parent with triplets in second grade in separate classrooms, our choice, the ignorance on this board about such matters is amusing at best, scary better describes it.

If a school administrator said, “We put all kids on Ritalin together in one classroom”, or “no more than one child with red hair can be in any class because of temperment” there would be an outrage and the ACLU would be relentless. Local schools are doing the same by having inconsistent policies regarding placements of HOM and many automatically separate twins, triplets, etc. “just because”.

Going to the legislature wasn’t a conservative Christian movement - it was a parental control movement!

By PC

March 21, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

I am wondering if some of the “enlightend” comments here are suggesting that the school system should not treat kids as individuals but as a group where everyone is exactly the same. No more “diversity” everyone has the same skills, ethnicity, background, language, etc. Wouldn’t life be so much easier for the teachers…

Parents are taxed to death and forced to send their kids to government schools, the least the school can do is work with parents who know their kids best.

Ignorance is at home in the AJC as we can yet again conclude!

By GodHatesTrash

March 21, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

The Aladamnbama reference is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen in the AJC, except pretty much anything by Luckovich.

Good on you guys for reminding us that one of the biggest collections of stumpbroke retards on the planet meets regularly under the Gold Dome.

By jm

March 21, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

SB 123 does not mention anything about changing grades, choosing teachers, or even changing classroom assignments more than 2 weeks into the school year. The law says that parents who request to have their multiples put in the same classroom can do so if the multiples are in the same grade. It does not add more teachers. It does not add more seats to a school or even to a classroom. The children are going to have to be placed in a classroom regardless of whether or not they are in the same class or different class.

Currently there are many counties and individual schools throughout the state that have an arbitrary unwritten policy to automatically separate multiples. These schools prejudicially treat each set of multiples as a unit rather than as individuals. These policies do not take into account research (by renowned twin researcher Nancy Segal) which proves twins will develop their own identity regardless of whether or not the children are in the same class room or not. Other studies (including the Tully Report, published in Twin Research Volume 7, Number 2, April 2004) have found that twins who are separated have significantly more social and academic problems including lower reading skills.

Why would a teacher or any academic administrator want to arbitrarily separate multiples based on myths and misconceptions rather than proven research that could shows separation could actually decrease academic performance? Unfortunately, for many multiples, this is happening regardless of what is in their best interest.

SB123 seeks to correct this problem in our state. As a conservative (read less government, local control) Republican and a parent of multiples, I would prefer that this never had to become an issue. Then again we do have government run schools. Unfortunately, some school administrators are not doing what is in the best interest of the children. We have low enough test scores in Georgia without adding to the problem by separating twins when they could wind up with lower reading skills. Parents of multiples know best whether or not their children will thrive together or separated. These parents are the most basic form of local control. Call it micromanagement if you will. Or call it looking out for the best interest of the child and making sure they are able to perform at the highest possible level.

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

The question is not how a school system should treat twins, quadruplets, or red-headed stepchildren. The question is whether, with all the things that need to be fixed in this state (including other areas of education), passing a bill dealing with such a low-level administrative decision is decent public policy. It isn’t.

If you have to scream and yell to convince an ignorant school administrator on this point, do you think they’re going to show superior judgement in other areas?

Instead of focusing efforts on just one narrow area that affects few kids, you may want to focus on getting a system that doesn’t require legislative intervention for symptoms of total dysfunction.

And yes, more than three kids is a “litter.” If you had problems conceiving and took some of these drugs that have caused so many multiple births, you’ve created some of your own problems.

As far as having no right to comment on this issue, some of y’all need to quit thinking you and your kids should be the center of everything. That includes the limited time of the Georgia Legislature. Go teach bible studies and mumble about homosexual and ACLU conspiracies elsewhere.

By PC

March 21, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Thanks Dana for the great links.

I might have been wrong. The school system DOES want to respect kids’ individuality…in what pertains to mandating the reading of the Koran, (but not the Bible) and in advocating homosexuality (but not abstinence).

By TwinMomStruggling

March 21, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

MBW and others:

I’m glad I can help you see our side. Personally, I WANT to work with the school, but often feel like I’ve been dismissed.

Some of the comments I’ve heard from administrators have been:

“We are NOT putting twins in the same class.”

“It just ISN’T done.”

“It wouldn’t be fair to the teacher” (yet one of my girls has 3 hearing impaired children in her class.)

“We just DON’T keep twins together”

“They won’t be individuals if they are together” (How does splitting them help when NOONE learns one from the other.)

“When they dress alike, I can only tell them apart by their shoes.” (From one of their teachers. I see no reason to force them to dress differently since they are in different classes, so about 2 times a month they choose to dress alike.)

I’ve had administrators shaking their heads and condescendingly tell me ”no” without even knowing my children. When I’ve gone to school to discuss placement, I’ve had 6 school reps on one side and me on the other.

When I’ve tried to discuss the problems I’m seeing/hearing at home, my appointment has been rescheduled numerous times. Now it will be toward the end of April. I wonder if the admin is just waiting to see what happens with the bill before they speak to me.

I don’t want to try to change their grades. When they do something wrong at school, they get punished at home as well. I don’t want to micromanage their lives, but it is my job to macro-manage. Something that makes them hate school feels like a macro-management item.

If nothing else, this bill will “wake up” the school administrators to the possibility that there is no one size fits all. Not all twins belong together, but they don’t all belong apart either.

By Triplet Mom

March 21, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

“The question is not how a school system should treat twins, quadruplets, or red-headed stepchildren. The question is whether, with all the things that need to be fixed in this state (including other areas of education), passing a bill dealing with such a low-level administrative decision is decent public policy. It isn’t.

If you have to scream and yell to convince an ignorant school administrator on this point, do you think they’re going to show superior judgement in other areas?

Instead of focusing efforts on just one narrow area that affects few kids, you may want to focus on getting a system that doesn’t require legislative intervention for symptoms of total dysfunction.”

I agree wholeheartedly, but we all know that school vouchers don’t have a chance.

By Anothertriplet mom

March 21, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

I am a mom of three year old triplets, who are in preschool. The horror of it they are all three in the same class room, and yes I plan on keeping it that way. I think that it should be mine and my husband’s decesion as to what is best for our children, not a school board official who has never spent so much as five minutes with the child. Several states have passed this legislature, IL, IN, NY to name a few. I think that it is great that the state of GA is with the times and is willing to allow parents to make the decesion.

By Annoyed

March 21, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Yes yes, Dana and PC…..schools are nothing more than a cog in the vast left-wing conspiracy to undermine you and your “family values”.

Heaven forbid that students get taught about the variety of people, religions, etc that exist in the world and then be allowed to make their own choices.

Why do that when you could just deny they even exist??

If you want a Bible-thumping, fear-mongering, ethno-centric education for your kids, go to a private religious school. That’s what they’re there for.

By HB

March 21, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

I keep reading about parental control and choice and what have you, but the problem is, this bill does not provide for that! It allows parents to keep multiples together but not split them apart. Personally, I think it’s nice if parents can choose either way, but I also know there can be a lot of issues in individual schools with regard to placing students in classes, so I firmly believe this should be handled at the local level. Petition school boards rather than getting a blanket law passed for the entire state. Multiples may have special needs to be considered in classroom placement, but so do a lot of other kids. We can’t pass state laws for all of them. Politicians should not be micromanaging at the classroom level!

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

I’m not sure that vouchers don’t have a chance…they were a lot more unlikely when they were first tossed out in public discussions years ago. I just wish that more people would get behind the idea that education by mass production is adequate at best. People deserve the chance to send their kids to a school that as closely as possible matches their child’s needs and desires, and reflects the parent’s values.

In (weak) defense of the administrators, the schools seem to have tons of kids with ADHD, a whole spectrum of learning disabilities, behavioral problems, etc, etc. Dealing with so many different educational needs is unrealistic.

By Mother of Quads and more

March 21, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Obviously, the majority of people responding fail to see what the problem is as they don’t have multiples…Parents know their children, better than a five minute evaluation by an “educator.” We as parents want the choice to do what is best for our children. Parents are not seeking to have their children in the same class to avoid buying additional gifts for teachers. That comment was taken out of text and is ridiculous. We are used to buying multiples of everything, all with the best interest of our children. Granted not all parents want their children in the same class, but want the right to decide. It is unfortunate that it has to come to this.

By MBW

March 21, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

I think the greatest tragedy in all of this is the profound level of distrust between parents and schools.

Unfortunately, many parents assume that all schools/administrators and teachers are incompetent and uncaring…and many schools assume that all parents are busybody, lawsuit filing know-it-alls.

What we need is leadership on the part of our politicians and school administrators to raise the level of discourse.

Even as a teacher, I know our schools have many problems. But we have to work together to fix them.

By Triplet Mom

March 21, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

GeezGuys, I agree with you. In the meantime, in lieu of going head to head with local school administrators and school boards who render inconsistent decisions, there will hopefully be a bill passed to put an end to “it’s our policy to separate multiples” without knowing our children or any input from us as their parents.

By TwinMomStruggling

March 21, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

HB - this bill gives parents the FINAL choice, whatever that choice may be.

Here’s a link to the bill: http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2007_08/pdf/sb123.pdf

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Ah, the modern-day school system is lacking. Not exactly breaking news.

But a comment back to the political view on the topic. Okay, there are studies showing multiples do better in the same class, so that’s a good reason to listen to parents who want that policy. However, the guy sponsoring the legislation seems to think it’s so the kids will have the same homework, textbooks, need only one present for the teacher, etc.

Does anyone trust this guy any more than the idiot school administrators? He’s got no clue what he’s doing with this legislation or why he’s doing it.

By aTwinMom

March 21, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Here is a note one of my identical girls sent to her sister. They are in 1st grade and split against all of our will. When they come home, they cling to one another and cry at the start of the school day.

Mary,

I love you very much. Thank you for being a great sister. At school I miss you very much. At home I am happy that you are with me. You are my very best friend.

Love, Sarah

By HB

March 21, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

No, TwinMomStruggling, it doesn’t. I just reread it. It requires that multiples be placed in the same class if parents request it. However, if a school wants to place multiples in the same class, it is not required to separate them at the parents request.

There are a lot complaints here about schools that require separate classrooms as a policy. I believe this bill could lead to the opposite. Rather than bother with dealing with parents’ requests, a school may choose a policy that multiples always be placed in the same classroom. Under this law, schools would be under no obligation to honor rquests of parents who want their kids separated. This bill is not about parental choice!

By Mom of Triplets

March 21, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

Yes, the AJC set this up to sound like a Christian Conservative family from Cobb County wants to keep their legal term requiring an explanation children in the same classroom so that they can have an easier time with homework and Christmas Shopping.

Nothing could be further from the truth. This bill didn’t pass the Senate because of convenience for parents. It passed because many local school systems have blanket policies to separate multiples without any input from parents, prior teachers, current research, etc. They are exercising a one-size-fits-all policy that is outdated.

Yes, many of us with multiple birth children have tried to work with local administrators and school boards over the years to right this situation locally. Some are cooperative, others already know what’s best for our children that they have never met. Please don’t assume that we rallied the Gold Dome first.

So the sponsoring senator had some words taken out of context and then people don’t understand why this bill is important or why it is a state issue. Many other states have gone before us accomplishing the same that couldn’t be accomplished locally.

By HB

March 21, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

By the way, this bill also has left out non-twin siblings, who are in the same grade. I knew adopted siblings, six weeks apart in age, one of whom really struggled with being separated. If there is to be a law, it should cover them too. Or better yet, do what that family did: teachers, administrators, and the parents worked together for years, keeping them together for some grades and separating them in others depending on what they thought was best at that stage in their development.

One principal, one year tried to force their separation without sitting down and hearing out the teachers and parents. The parents then went to their school board representative, who was able help them out. That’s where these decisions should take place — at the local level!

It’s odd to me too that this bill does not set an age limit for classroom requests. Should parents really be able to request their kids have the same schedule all the way through high school?

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Maybe the AJC didn’t set anyone up; maybe these legislators really are stupid. Lord knows Nancy Schaefer is a wackjob. I

Sen. Rogers is pushing a bill that (from his own explaination) is about one family. And that he thinks the family’s problem is related to Christmas shopping.

This should concern anyone, even if you got a bill that would benefit your own situation.

By Mom of Triplets

March 21, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Great Points GeezGuys; however, the one family in Cobb County the Senator refers to represents many thousands of parents of twins, triplets, and more across Georgia who will now have a choice as to the placement of their children in classrooms based upon their individual situations instead of a blanket policy that supposedly fits all.

By HB

March 21, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Except that they won’t all have a choice!! Only those wanting their kids placed together are guaranteed a choice!!! And it only covers multiples — why not all same-grade siblings? I’ve known adopted siblings, only a few weeks apart in age, who probably should have been covered by this. This law appears to have been hastily written on the complaint of one family.

Before a bill is written several questions should be asked including: 1) Is there demonstrated need that needs to be addressed in some manner? 2) If so, is it truly in the best interests of the entire citizenry of the state to address it at the state level rather than at the local level? 3) If a state law is warranted, what research is needed to assure that the new law will adequately address the current problem without causing too many new ones?

I simply don’t believe the authors of this bill thought much about it. Someone complained to Sen. Rogers and the idea sounded reasonable enough, so he wrote up the bill. I wonder, though, did he ask educators’ opinions on the matter (yes, parents should have a say, but the schools need to be consulted as well)? Did he seek out other parents of mulitiples? Did he even request information from the House research office on how many GA school systems have twin-placement policies, and if so, what are those policies—separate, keep together, or work with each family to decide? Is the problem widespread enough to give this bill priority over the many bills that won’t make it to the floor this session? Given the evident flaws in this very short bill, I can’t imagine much background research was conducted. The legislative session is simply too short to waste time on hastily assembled, flawed bills.

By Kimberly

March 21, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

As a middle school teacher, I often taught multiples who had been together in elementary school and were spilt in middle school for the individuality reason. Often this resulted in a drop in classroom performance, because they spent the entire time wondering what their sibilings were doing. Research has shown over and over that placement depends on the set of multiples and their needs. As a mother of spontaneous ggg triplets, I am just asking for the right to make that choice for my children. As I read the article and comments posted, I realised that few people understand the dymanic that multiples faces. As an educator and a mother of triplets, I am happy to see a bill, which address a very important issue for multiples.

By Triplethetrouble

March 21, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Okay, I would like to point out that first I am a liberal who supports this bill, and I am NOT a part of the Christian Right. I was one of 1000s of moms of multiples who emailed and called the committee and representatives to encourage this bill. This bill was never a one person show. One person just happened to know the right person to talk too. Then the concerned moms that are dealing with this got on the bandwagon and got our point across. We are not trying to CHOSE TEACHERS, or be parents who are overbearing. We just want to be able to say, Hey my kids need to be together or seperated. I have two that will want to be together the other will not. I just want to be able to have that choice.

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

That’s the point, Kimberly, few people outside of those families with multiples understand the issues. I’ve never randomly thought “hey, what if I had triplets and a school wanted to split them up?”

Up to this point, it seems like one set of ill-informed and clueless officials (school)have been arbitrarily determining the fate of multiples based on “what they think”. Now, their fate will be determined by another set of clueless and ill informed officials (legislators) based on “what they think”. Even though both groups don’t have an idea of why they’re making a policy.

‘Ol Chip there may have hit the target when he sponsored this bill, but he did so with a random, blind, shot.

Again, anyone else believe this is a great way to get a law on the books? Next session some other dim legislator could introduce a bill mandating separation of multiples based on old wives tales. Or the input of these clueless school officials, or for that matter,that multiple children are created by satanic means and must be punished.

Don’t celebrate too much.

By HB

March 21, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, Triplethetrouble, this bill does not give you that choice. Please go back and reread it. If the school insists on keeping all 3 of your children together, this bill would not obligate the school to honor your choice to separate them. If the school wanted them separated, you could put all of them together, though. Very sloppy lawmaking…

By Mom of Triplets

March 21, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

As the mother of boy/boy/girl triplets who are in Kindergarten, I want to stress the fact that NOBODY knows our children better than their parents. My husband and I have personally chosen to have our trio separated in school, and for now it is the best choice. However, in 2 years having them all in the same classroom might be the better choice for our family, and I want to be able to make those choices for my children.

I believe all parents of multiples should be able to make the decision whether their children are together or separated. Each family is unique, and the “one size fits all” mentality of many school systems and administrations is archaic at best. If having the multiples together in one classroom is a serious problem or distraction, then the teacher and school administration should have the right to re-evaluate placement along with parental input.

By Triplefigs

March 21, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

I just realized another user signed in as Mom of Triplets (as did I). So I will now repost my comments as Triplefigs to avoid confusion.

As the mother of boy/boy/girl triplets who are in Kindergarten, I want to stress the fact that NOBODY knows our children better than their parents. My husband and I have personally chosen to have our trio separated in school, and for now it is the best choice. However, in 2 years having them all in the same classroom might be the better choice for our family, and I want to be able to make those choices for my children.

I believe all parents of multiples should be able to make the decision whether their children are together or separated. Each family is unique, and the “one size fits all” mentality of many school systems and administrations is archaic at best. If having the multiples together in one classroom is a serious problem or distraction, then the teacher and school administration should have the right to re-evaluate placement along with parental input.

By Alison

March 21, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

Like triplethetrouble, I am a mom of twins who has actively supported this legislation. Our goal is not to have the freedom to chose teachers, but simply to chose whether or not our multiple children will be in the same classroom or separated. There is ample evidence supporting the notion that keeping multiples together can help them both academically and emotionally. Yet many schools arbitrarily require multiples to be in separate classrooms. Those of us who are informed of the consequences of that decision are fighting for the right to have a voice in whether our children should be separated or kept together.

By TwinMomStruggling

March 21, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

I started asking about creating this bill 2 years ago when trying to have my girls in the same Kinder class and started getting resistance. I contacted Wendy H. in Minn about the bill going through the Minn legislature. From there, I spoke with quite a few other mothers of multiples (MOMs) and a sizable group of us realized there is a REAL problem in GA similar to the one in MN. A couple of the other MOMs are very politically active and approached Senator Rogers. He did NOT hit this with a blind shot, he had experienced MOMs asking him to help us.

It IS NOT just 1 parent. I’m not sure how these reporters got the statement from Senator Rogers, but if you corner someone in a toilet they are just going to sputter out an answer. Even as passionate as I am about this, if unexpectedly cornered in a toilet I would babble out some nonsense designed for the lowest common denominator as well.

GeezGuys, you obviously have issues with the legislature. I’m not exactly a political revolutionary myself, but this is something that affects me and my children every day. I watch as my children struggle because of a fascist administration.

HB, some answers to your questions: 1. YES, there is a need. There are at least 10 states either passing, or in the process of passing, similar legislation because of the need. Oklahoma passed a resolution in 1997! I am NOT alone, it is a common discussion among school age MOMs. Some would not have a problem if we lived just 2 blocks over and our children went to a different elem school, that’s the disparity of it. I’ve contacted the school district to find out if, since they currently don’t have any policy, they would implement a policy of looking at each set of multiples individually. They never answered. I have tried at the local level and been ignored. 2. The local level IS NOT addressing this issue. It is a toss of the dice how parents and multiples are treated. Many educators are amazing, a few are not. This bill gives parents of multiples ammunition to combat the prejudice of the few who are not. (I’m ex-Army, so I’ll use some of my military references.) 3. What more research do you need? The research referenced in the previous posts, including the Tully Report, Dr. Nancy Segal’s works, the published works of the NOMOTC on the subject and Dr. David Hay at www.twinsandmultiples.org, uniformly recommend the individual treatment of multiple sets in classroom placement.

I will agree it should state the parents should have the final say overall, be it together or apart, however I do not know of any complaints from parents in the US, UK, or Australia about their multiples being put together against their will.

Requesting twins in separate classes is NOT a problem, administrators happily do that. It’s requesting they be together that causes some (not all) administrators to bully parents and force their own archaic attitude on parents and children.

By Mom to 2 sets of Twins

March 21, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

This is not a one person issue, it is a state wide problem, beyond “Atlanta” as we are on the East Coast of GA.

It will allow parents to have a voice where we currently do not. Most to all current Schools (Boards of Education) in GA practice an unwritten policy of mandatory separation of Twins and Higher Order Multiples. They do this based on predisposed notions that multiples need to gain their own identity.

SB123 would give parents a voice where one is not currently present. We are here to work with our educators to do that which will be in the best interest of our childrens physical and emotional needs so they can channel all of their energy to that of learning while at school rather than wondering what their multiple is doing and how they are doing because they have been mandatorialy separated with no recourse. Those wishing to separate will also benefit from this bill as you will be able to have your voice heard by your educators.

Several States such as NY, NH, IN, TX for example are currently working with their legislators to enact similar legislation. Do not forget that the state of MN passed similar legislation in 2005. This is a NATIONAL PROBLEM, not just a state of GA problem and we feel fortunate that our GA legislators recognize the importance of this issue.

By PC

March 21, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

No “Annoyed”, I can’t afford to send my litter to private school because YOU empower the government to come into my house put a gun to my head and take a heavy chunck of my assets. This way, computers can be subsidized for beatniks like you who can then sit around and blog.

How about that to match your all encompassing ignorant comment?

Your hypocrisy and prejudice is laughable and only toppled by the lack of an intelligent argument, thus the name calling and preconceptions.

How tolerant and inclusive you are…

By I have Triplets, too!

March 21, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

There are issues that parents of twins and higher order multiples (a medical term, not a legal term) face that just aren’t issues of the general public. Thankfully, this is America where individuals have rights and it isn’t always majority rule. Just like there are federal and state laws that protect the educational rights of children with medical issues, disabilities, emotional or behavior issues, we are seeking a law that allows us to influence our children’s classroom placement.

Many thousands of parents of multiples have tried repeatedly for YEARS at the local level to influence classroom placement only to be met with outdated one-size-fits-all philosophy of “we separate multiples” as if they are trying to protect us from ourselves. Trust us, if we had cooperation at the local level over the past decade or so, we wouldn’t have appeared before committees in the Gold Dome. There wouldn’t be several other states with legislation enacted similar to this over the past decade.

It really isn’t a liberal vs. conservative or Democrat vs. Republican issue. I’m all for local control; however, if local control worked properly, we wouldn’t have federal and state legislation regulating the educational needs of children with disabilities, funding for athletic programs, gifted programs, and ESOL.

I, too, shook my head when I read the AJC writer’s impression of the bill and his conversation with Chip. The writer obviously hadn’t researched this at all and he only highlights the lack of understanding of the need for the bill. There were committee meetings, input from departments, and passage in the Senate. He did the minimal amount necessary to stir the pot and try to slam conservative senators.

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

So asking the main sponsor of the bill isn’t doing research? Hey, these guys write a political column, not MomMania. If they want to know about a piece of legislation, they ask a legislator, preferably the lead sponsor. If Chip Rogers splutters out nonsense to a reporter, then who’s at fault? And people who splutter nonsense usually do so because they don’t know what they are talking about.

It’s pretty telling that this has apparently been an issue for years, and now one person who knows what strings to pull has gotten him to sponsor it. When that person has their needs met, everyone else can sink or swim for themselves.

Like I said, you may not want to celebrate too much.

By I have Triplets, too!

March 21, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

The Political Columnist starts out his article with “We don’t know the background…”. Only as an adendum after he seemingly runs into Chip in the hallway to get some information does he give his version of the conversation. We don’t know what was said or not said - if his interview skills could only get references to convenience and shopping, AJC had better start reviewing some resumes! I said nothing about celebrating…only that the columnist did just enough to stir the pot and try to discredit and smear a conservative senator.

By Triplets, too!

March 21, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

The Political Columnist starts out his article with “We don’t know the background…”. Only as an adendum after he seemingly runs into Chip in the hallway to get some information does he give his version of the conversation. We don’t know what was said or not said - if his interview skills could only get references to convenience and shopping, AJC had better start reviewing some resumes! I said nothing about celebrating…only that the columnist did just enough to stir the pot and try to discredit and smear a conservative senator.

By momotwins

March 21, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

I am amazed by the suggestion that this bill is designed for parents of twins or higher order multiples to choose teachers. This bill is not about the convenience of buying presents for teachers, this bill is not about politics. This bill is about getting the best education for our children.

This bill is not a waste of time. Parents of multiples have asked for the consideration of school administrators.

My twins are currently enrolled in preschool, they are in the same class. They are together nearly ever hour of every day except when they are asleep. I cannot say what will be right for them when it is time for kindergarten, elementary school, middle etc, but I am relieved to know that I will legally have a say.

I wish it were not neccessary to have legislation regarding this issue but as many posters before me have experssed much has been done to try to address this issue to no avail.

The original commentary was a disgrace to journalism and the author should hang his head in shame. Ignorance lives on at the AJC.

By GeezGuys

March 21, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

They did make references to other things the good Senator said. But the quote is (unless the columnists are flat-out lying) Chip’s own words.

Any discrediting or smearing is entirely on the interviewee’s words. It’s not like Chip Rodgers can say anyone twisted his words. That’s exactly what he said. Really, it sounds stupid. If I was a reporter, I’d consider it important that the prime sponsor of a bill sounded like he had no valid reason to support such legislation.

The most probable reason for a stupid statement is a stupid speaker.

By multiplemultiples

March 21, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

I am so disappointed that there are Georgians weighing in on an issue that they know nothing about in hopes of influencing an outcome that can hinder those it was proposed for. Have those of you forgotten that these are kids. Yes I said KIDS!! They cannot fight for themselves and us as parents have to do the fighting for them. I have twins and choose to separate them (for my own reasons), however I will advocate as much as I can that the decision is with the parent, not the administrator. That lone Cobb school knows who they are and they have to know that they are still practicing out of date concepts that don’t apply now and most likely didn’t apply back then. There are many other schools in the state that are practicing this same policy and yet cannot back up their arguments when asked to do so.

To: GeezGuys - “Decent public policy”??? “Causing our own problems.” Are you serious?? OMG!!!” Are you causing your own problem if you are black vs. white? Are you causing your own problem if you are female vs. male? Twins don’t have a choice of how they are born and contrary to popular belief, parents don’t have a choice in HOW MANY are born!! Believe it or not, there are still many sets of multiples (yes, triplets and above also) that are conceived spontaneously and all sets of multiples are conceived NATURALLY. ‘Natural’ or not, drugs or no drugs, I really can’t believe you are dogging on parents for having children. Do you realize this is what keeps the world populated. You obviously don’t have any yourself! (yet another reason you have no weight on this issue – I think you just like to hear yourself type) As for the time in the legislature, I cannot think of more important issues than the future of our kids. And yes, since you don’t know, our lives do revolve around our kids and one day it will be our kids that are leading this nation and/or taking care of you when you are in a nursing home because no one else wants to take care of you….

Regardless of whether a PERSON was conceived naturally is not the issue here. Let’s all get back to the point. There are KIDS that fail when separated and others who succeed when placed together. Wouldn’t any administrator want them together based on those facts alone? No, not all twins need to be together, but it is NOT up to the school boards to dictate that on the outset of the child’s entire school career. (And we wonder why more people are homeschooling?) I must repeat what was stated earlier, if they said their blanket “policy” was to separate all blacks, whites, Hispanics, and yes, red haired kids, you would all be in a serious uproar because that effects you. Well, this effects us. This would, like most race issues (and yes this is a race – the human one), not even make it this far if there wasn’t a need. Twins are a minority. Obviously there are people out there whose children are suffering from separation issues at the ripe young age of five and the schools sit back and accept it as “policy” and allow failure to happen. What kind of administration do we have if we allow for this to happen.

I don’t know how this AJC journalist got their job. Even a meager student knows to look up facts before you print something. As to his comments about Chip Rogers, do you really think he divulged the entire conversation? Based on his previous comments, I’m betting there were a few words left out of his comments and the context can then get taken out of hand.

Why don’t those of you who know nothing about this issue, step back or step out. To the rest of you that are just debating this issue, I applaud you for considering another point of view, however, really really think about the kids. This isn’t an issue with teachers. It’s an issue with the kids. We only ask that they stay together in the same classroom (any classroom) IF we ask it to be that way. It does not go any further to suggest they must be given special treatment, special grades, or even to reduce the number of gifts we give…. It simply states we want the school to place them in the same classroom per our request and understand that if they choose not to, the kids will suffer; not the parents, not the teachers, not even the administration. THE KIDS WILL SUFFER.

By LRB

March 21, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

This seems like such a no-brainer to me. We’re talking about passing a bill that costs no one anything, but insures parents of multiples a voice in classroom placement of their children. It is for the children’s benefit based upon their individual circumstances.

My frustrations - that it takes an act of the state legislatures - not just Georgia, but many states - to ensure that right for parents. How can Georgia improve education results when administrators, school boards, etc. make blanket policies without regard to the academic and/or social performance of the individual child?

Chip Rogers may fully understand the importance of this issue, but we won’t know that because of the boondoggle AJC writer and his obvious bias. Advice for next assignment: Don’t start out your editorial with “We don’t know the background” - might research before you write and have an actual interview with the author of the legislation instead of what seems like a chance meeting in the hallway. Anyway, whether Chip carefully chose his words to describe why we’re seeking this legislation to benefit our kids and not for our own benefit is irrelevant. Bills are authored every day by trial lawyers, farmers, and funeral directors who have no expertise in bill’s subject matter. Why hold him to a different standard?

But back to the point. Just like there is accountability and protection for children who are ESOL, ADHD, ethnic minorities, etc., the special needs related to classroom placement is being ignored and yes, it seems to take an act of congress to give parents such a simple right that they have earned!

By Teacher&Momoftwins

March 21, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this

Wow- I did not realize the world of multiples could creat SUCH controversay! As a teacher, there is definitely a down side to having multiples in your classroom- there is a family dynamic that creates issues and often the children (younger grades of course) get in trouble for arguing, fighting, or perhaps they will not make choices without the others opinion and when the teacher discourages these practices, the children are upset and confused- afer all this is DAILY normal stuff for them- however, I do support the parent’s right to decide as long as the child’s best interest is KEPT FIRST! THe comment about the gifts and same homework is actually one of ignorance and why I at one time opposed the bill! Again as a teacher, I see so many of the parents of my students leaving all of the teaching up to the school system- I do not mean ABC 123- I mean behaviors, manners, morals, etc… So this bill is putting the parents back in the hot seat as being the #1 educator- as it should be- so as I have now become in favor of this bill because I believe in the right to have a choice- I ask all of the parents of multiples this bill is a privilidge, do not abuse it- consider your children first when you make this descision and do not make your choices based on what is best for you- but best for your children- and by the way- I will split- but I am thrilled that it is our FAMILY’S choice!

By tripletmomplus1

March 21, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

The reason we need legislation is because of people like this writer and many of the people who are writing on this blog. This legislation is all about parents having a choice and I do not know why administrators, teachers and others do not understand this. If it was about money being spent on teachers gifts you are right that we would be wasting legislatures time. As a mom of triplets plus a singleton, I give 3 times as much to their teacher because I have three in the same class. I would have to do it if they were in different grades so why not if they are in the same. There is a connection between multiples that many of us do not know and I believe that each child should be looked at separately and not as a whole. These kids have a bond that no one should break and unless there is a problem then parents should be able to have a say. I have triplets that are in preschool together and are being faced with having to be split because as soon as I approached administrators and teachers their immediate reaction was they won’t talk about it because “they split multiples” That is not always in the best interest of our kids and as long as we have administrators who only think they are right and use the mentality from the ‘old days’ then we have to have legislation that gives parents a choice. Every parent should be able to have a say in their childs education.

By momoftwins

March 21, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

If you do not have twins this bill does not affect y