Norcross.Talk

By Dave Walker

November 10, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Amendment No. 3 failed. It did not pass.

Amendment No. 2 passed by a slim margin. However, rumor has it the ballot wording for Amendment No. 2 was unconstitutional for various reasons and therefore will be challenged (and likely overturned) in court.

You big government handout, socialist folks in Gwinnett, continually feeding at the taxpayer trough, will have a long, long wait on this one.

By BW

November 10, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Tell me Dave, when a board of commissioners decide we need a taxpayer funded stadium without any public input, is that socialism? How about the commissioners deciding who will pick up our trash and set prices, is that socialism Dave?

I take it Dave that you like government making every decision for you, I believe that is a little more left than socialism.

A TAD Dave gives a taxpayer more control and input than letting your big government making all decisions for you.

PLAY BALL!!

By Woody Bass

November 11, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Dave is right (atleast about) Amendment 3 did not pass, that was my bad. No more finishing blogs late at nite anymore. However, to insinuate that I am pro “big govenment” and especially a “socialist”… would be a grave mistake.

Corrections regarding Amendment 3 will be made.

By Bubba

November 11, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

TADs may be a workable answer, but they don’t address the real problem, which is: How did we get to this point to begin with?

Regardless of how one feels about the size of government, what’s evident is that the caretakers of our government - especially those whom were re-elected - didn’t do their job. Now, we have voted to give more money to people who couldn’t effectively manage their money to begin with.

Typical American philosophy: Have a problem, throw more money at it. What do we get for our return on investment? Like Wall Street fat cats, we reward those who ran the ship aground with more money to pull the ship off the sandbar. Meanwhile, the crew that put the ship on the sandbar - drunk with power, or whatever else was in the kool aid - get yet another chance to navigate.

Am I the only one that sees a problem with this picture?

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Yes Bubba many of us have seen the picture for years. Believe it or not, we’ve seen the problem and the problem is us. Governments don’t solve problems, people do. Likewise, people create bad government - a little rotten government goes a long ways in spoiling all that is good. The government we have is only as good as the people who are chosen to govern.

From the wisdom of our past ages:

The government is best which governs least.

There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.

The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry.

When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right.

Mere platitudes or a certitude in reality?

That is our choice.

How many people who voted YES on amendment 2 even knew what they were voting on to approve?

Quality communities are made-up of quality people, quality government likewise. For a little good governance serves to rise above all that is bad in securing the greater good.

“We have seen the enemy and the enemy IS truly us”.

By Woody Bass

November 11, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Bubba No you are not the only one. As Michael so eloquently answered… someone wasnt doing their job - that is why we are where we are today. And “we” are just as responsible because we let it happen.

Michael Well said as usual. And by the way.. you are welcome. :)

By roska

November 11, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, TADs will fix it.

TADs will allow us to take old areas with crummy strip malls and restaurants and replace them with new strip malls and restaurants.

Clearly Gwinnett doesn’t have enough strip malls and retaurants and that is why TADs will make everything allright.

Give me a frekkin break.

Gwinnett is going down the toilet because Nasuti only cares about baseball, Kenerly only cares about zoning his buddy’s land parcels, and Bannister sits idly by bumbling his way through everything.

Now that Bannister has gotten rid of Lorraine Green and has his old pal Shirley Lassiter to vote with him there’s nothing to stop things from getting worse. Just drive through Duluth in the morning and watch all the Mexicans standing around and you’ll see how well Lassiter ran that city for over a decade.

Those of you who think TADs are going to do anything other than build more strip malls for Bannister and Kenerly’s campaign contributors should share whatever you’re smoking with the rest of us. At least that would dull the pain of watching Gwinnett turn into the third world nation it is becoming.

By Steve

November 11, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

It’s time to get rid of these crappy fast food chains and get the good ones. In-N-Out, Fat Burger, Carls Jr., Del Taco, Wienerschnitzle, Jack In The Box, and so on, and so on. I don’t eat a lot of fast food, but sometimes on the weekend it’s nice to run out and get a good burger like at In-N-Out. There is just nothing comparible around here, it’s like fried slop. Everything is the same.

By BW

November 11, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

First, no Tax Allocation District in Georgia has ever “failed” in terms of a failure to pay back the financing.

But IF a TAD were to fail to satisfy its financial obligations, the taxpayers would not be on the hook. The Redevelopment Powers Law absolutely prohibits a pledge of the general taxing power of the government to fund a TAD (O.C.G.A. 36-44-14). TAD bonds are NOT backed by the full faith and credit of the County, only by the revenues projected to be generated by the TAD itself.

If the TAD doesn’t generate the projected amount of revenue, the private investors who purchase the TAD bonds bear that risk, NOT the taxpayers.

This taxpayer protection isn’t a matter of opinion; it is a matter of law.

One reason why they do not “fail” may be the exceptional amount of preparation and planning that is required. TADs require cost analyses, future benefits analyses, etc. The investors require proof that the project, as designed, will succeed. There is a Tax Allocation District Advisory Committee, a group of citizens and other stakeholders who oversee the entire process. And then there are public hearings on every aspect of the TAD.

There is plenty of opportunity for interested parties to examine each proposed TAD and oppose the bad ones.

Also, one pre-qualifier is that all other means and methods to facilitate redevelopment must be considered and discounted as inappropriate. In other words, a TAD is supposed to be a “last resort” although, in many instances it may actually be the best way to make a revitalization project happen.

It would seem to me “The People” knew exactly what they were voting for, more control over their money.

PLAY BALL!!!

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

BS! “People” very seldom - in this state most regrettably - have a clue when voting on constitutional ballot amendments.

Play indeed!

By Bubba

November 11, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

The problem, Michael, is that its hard to find an assertive citizenry amongst the fatted calves that we call our neighbors. Maybe we do get what we deserve. True democracy in action: elect politicians that are stupid enough to represent your lazy a*******es. If Georgians ever found an honest politician, they’d probably call him a yankee and stone him to death.

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

At this point I’d settle to find an honest Yankee. (Besides the one I married)

Not that anyone took notice but we have a small problem with “leveraging things” in this country already.

Play Bailout !!!!!!!!!!!!

Politicians are politicians so don’t vote for a politician and we’ll not elect one. I’d rather elect my neighbor than the people just elected that will most likely not represent me.

By BW

November 11, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

MHS, I always knew you had great taste.

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Anyhow, congrats Woodrow on your TAD win. Not sure what was won but to the victor goes the spoils or spoilage.

Now comes a bailout for the auto makers and I got issues. Bush wants his Columbia Free Trade Agreement to be part of the deal.

No to Bush. No immigration visas in any part of trade deals. Tax penalties for companies that relocate American jobs outside of this country.

The only way I will support a bailout of these auto makers would be contingent on them complying with the following terms:

1) Bringing back all the manufacturing jobs they have offshore outsourced (i.e. China and Mexico), including all their monies now sitting in their offshore accounts.

2) All new cars and car parts that go into making those new cars that are produced to sell in the American marketplace shall be manufactured inside the United States, using U.S. Citizen labor first and foremost before any foreign national labor can be used and they must prove no U.S. citizens are available, willing or trainable to fill the job at no less than prevailing wages.

3) Any new plant construction or construction improvements made to existing plants or buildings shall be built using U.S. Citizen labor first and foremost before any foreign national labor can be used and they must prove no U.S. citizens are available, willing or trainable to fill the job at no less than prevailing wages.

4) All tooling in these plants required to produce these new cars shall be manufactured inside the U. S. using U.S. Citizen labor first and foremost before any foreign national labor can be used and they must prove no U.S. citizens are available, willing or trainable to fill the job at no less than prevailing wages.

4) No forced “open ballot” unionization where unions did not previously exist.

The U.S. economy and Americans are in greater need of good high paying jobs than - excuse my rage - a damn rebate/tax cut.

The reason these auto makers are in trouble is because Americans cannot afford to buy their cars - Et al Henry Ford!

Oh yeah and he was a good Yankee and a great American.

By Woody Bass

November 11, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Tax penalties for companies that relocate American jobs outside of this country.

You holding your breath on that Michael?

By roska

November 11, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

How much do you want to bet that any construction done inside TAD areas will be done by illegal Mexicans?

“Build it and they will come” doesn’t seem to work in Gwinnett. I drive by too much stuff that’s been built and sits empty.

Prosperity is created by well educated people who work at high paying jobs then spend their good wages inside their community. No community ever created real prosperity by building more shopping. This is a reality that seems to be lost on our current county government.

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

You might want to check out President elect Obama’s campaign speeches Woodrow. Did it appear he was wasting his breath or just plain lying? Soon we shall see.

@ roska - I’ll bet illegal unauthorized Mexican nationals will do nearly all the revitalization work under these TADs’. When they absolutely shouldn’t do anything but get on the bus and take the pathway back home to reunite with their citizenship.

Even the legal “guest worker” aliens under work visa programs that our government has abused to bring in cheap labor should not be given jobs when U.S. Citizens who can fill those job remain unemployed or underemployed.

How unfortunate so many of the elected in power choose to only see “one side” of the failed Bush Free Trade flat world theory agenda that has now proven to be “a global flat broke fact”.

PS: roska - The uneducated poor man’s dollar spends just as good as the highly educated rich man’s dollar and when that dollar is spent by an American hand in this U.S. economy it will produce prosperity.

Otherwise, if that dollar is spent in or sent to a foreign economy it only creates a foreign debt accruing compound interest.

By roska

November 11, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

Michael,

You said: The uneducated poor man’s dollar spends just as good as the highly educated rich man’s dollar and when that dollar is spent by an American hand in this U.S. economy it will produce prosperity.

True, true and true. I didn’t mean to disparage anyone’s contributions. But you have to admit that if your county is full highly educated people with more income you’ll get more prosperity than those areas that rely on service industries.

As it stands now our growth is from service sector workers who rent and don’t have any ownership stake in the system. While their money does spend as well as the next guy’s that isn’t the growth we need to fix the downhill slide.

I don’t know why I’m worrying though. OBAMA will fix it.

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Nothing at all wrong with higher education. However, lets be striaght-forward: Someone has to collect garbage, wade around in mud buttock deep day in and day out, flip hambergers, wait tables, press the pants and sweep the floors for all the PHDs’. These are the second chance jobs, the jobs few who hold higher degrees will ever do. Every citizen of this country has a role in which they can serve, possibly even move-up a few rungs on the economic ladder to invest in onwership of something they really can afford. That opportunity and this government should see to it that they are never denied a particpation in what is America and we as Americans should never frown upon them. An honest days work, no matter how meanial the task, deserves no less than honest respect.

However, you are correct. The manufacturing sector that once produced the middle class in this country has been systemically packed-up and shipped out. New technology leaves this country nearly as quickly as it is created in the lab. Even the once thought of safe jobs no longer offer any economic security. Drug maker Pfizer I recently heard plans to load up their New Jersey works and ship-out. Meanwhile, American Pfizer workers are training their foriegn counterparts to replace them offshore. It is a sorry state of affairs to have to say roska but without the right change, not simply a change, even many of America’s better educated are on the economic endangered speicies list.

If all this sounds protectionist, then good. We honor the protectors of this nation on this day and I intend to continue to fight for the things they have protected.

By BW

November 11, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

It is indeed sad, sad to see so many broken people commenting. Has Fearless Leader, who now holds the record for being the worst leader of the United States, destroyed the “The Peoples” will?

Face it, the Gwinnett Village needs a TAD, we need the input some seek before commiting, Bert could have helped the area, but the Braves decided they wanted it’s stadium placed elsewhere.

Lilburn with one, if not the finest, Hindu Temples in the country or the world, sits among strip malls, not high class hotels. Yet people insist on being petty, petty, petty.

Get it together folks, at least give one TAD a chance, if it works I’ll smile, will you?

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

A little tipsy?

Broken people usually don’t comment, for reason a broken people have no will to fight or speak out in opposition. Though a sensible people balk at rewarding the problem and those that created them.

By BW

November 11, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

roska, a little side bet, want to take me up on it? If a TAD is given to the say Gwinnett Village, a time-clock will be all set-up for the good old WASP boys.

When the shift cannot be filled, it will be opened for all and they’ll be treated according.

Bottom line, the Latino’s and Blacks will win, for some reason Southern boys these days are not like their Daddy’s.

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

How do you convert a greedy developer into repentance?

Give him a TAD!

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hal le lu jah!

And redemption came upon land.

Funny how yesterday’s OL’ GREEDY DEVELOPERS have become today’s new found SAINTS.

LOL

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

Take the bet roska!

Blacks will get dis’d just like Whites as illegal unauthorized Mexicans and Central American nationalities fill the bulk of any construction jobs under TADs. Unless our government does something mean spirited, like actually enforce the law.

By BW

November 11, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Oh give me a break MHS please show me where I’m wrong instead of the attack?

btw..do you and Woodrow have a thing going on?

By Michael H. Smith

November 11, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

BM when there is a fire to fight I’ll give you a call, but until then: Please my friend, on construction matters politely speaking YOU are a fish out of the water.

No, Woodrow and I simply have a little more going on the proverbial economic reality ball than you.

Perhaps I should call my black work associates that I’ve worked with over the years so they can tell YOU what it T-I-S, TIS!

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

Hit the wrong key BW. Sorry about the BM, my bad.

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 12:33 AM | Link to this

Quite simply BW, you started the attacks. You want proof where you are wrong, then go to the Pew Hispanic Website. Those most adversely impacted by illegal unauthorized worker aliens in this country follows in this order: Legal aliens, blacks and then whites.

If you would like to tour a few Gwinnett County construction work sites - some new school work-sites paid for under the SPLOST - I’ll do more than prove you wrong.

The empirical evidence alone bury you!

By BW

November 12, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

MHS, you still refuse to address what I have said, as I pointed out before.

“Perhaps I should call my black work associates that I’ve worked with over the years so they can tell YOU what it T-I-S, TIS!” Man, that really would impress me.

Part of my Officers Training included Fire Fighhting in Non-Combustitble Buildings, a National Fire Academy course. Sounds strang, but as you well know there are dangers at night, propane, open stairwells, no stand-pipes, bascically nothing.

But if there is a fire HMS, you know we’ll be there, as we always have.

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Most of us in the construction field are very well aware of fire code PLUS A HELL OF A LOT MORE CODE YOU HAVEN’T A CLUE ABOUT BW!

And YOU BW should know, me and my fellow black constructions workers will be here to build again, should this country ever remember whose backs built this country in the first place. A country that has betrayed us for that cheap, cheap, cheap South of de border tax evading, non-insurance paying, benefit reaping illegal alien labor that we U.S. citizens, black and white, continue to pay for through our tax dollars !!!!

If there is a building to be built we Americans can get it built for a living wage. We always have and we always will if this country will allow us to. Unfortunately government does not protect us like it does its’ government firefighters by enforcing the laws.

When is the last time Gwinnett County hired an illegal alien as a firefighter on the GCFD?

Got an answer for that one, BW?

Gwinnett County and Georgia hires illegal alien labor to do construction work continually and many other jobs.

Tell ya what BW, lets replace all of GCFD with illegal alien workers tomorrow, how many U.S. Citizens do you think will still be there to fight fires afterwards?

Don’t forget Bert needs money to build that ballpark.

Bet Ol’ Bert can get some cheap, cheap, cheap harder working firefighters from South of the border to replace those U.S. Citizen on the GCFD.

Until you’ve been in the battle don’t tell me about the war U.S. citizen construction workers face against illegal unauthorized alien workers. You have paid your dues before you can sing those blues, my friend. And you ain’t paid-up your book on that ticket.

By roska

November 12, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

TAD stands for:

Taking Away (money from) Dummy voters

You’ll see the same strip mall developers inside the TADs that have built all the other strip malls. And you’ll see Mexicans building the new strip malls.

All the while taxes that would have gone to schools will go to the developers.

What’s going to bring new high paying industries to Gwinnett - a great school system or more strip malls?

I rest my case.

By roska

November 12, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

I just thought about how happy Wayne Hill must be about TADs. Even he never figured out a way to take tax dollars and transfer them directly into developer’s pockets.

At least Hill made the developers risk their OWN money when they overbuilt.

Now we’ll watch Bannister, Kenerly and Nasuti roll over in a series of 3-2 (or maybe 4-1 votes after Lassiter is in office) that’ll give everybody on the TAD boards everything they want.

My guesses for who will be on the TAD boards: Emery Morseburger, George Thorndyke, Brett Harrell and some well connected Korean businessmen. Any of these sound familiar? They should if you look at Bannister’s campaign contribution reports.

God help this county. It is looking more like Dekalb every day.

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

roska, I don’t fault Mexicans for being Mexican or even the few who truly desire a better citizenship for immigrating legally to our country. I do fault them or any other nationality illegally residing and working in this country - they should be put on the pathway that leads back home. Even more at fault is our government that not only allows this illegality to take place but openly welcomes it, by willfully failing to enforce the law.

The Democrats in this state say they want to go after the employers that hire illegal aliens. Okay Dems, now’s your opportunity. Arizona has just such a law that goes after the employers who hire illegal aliens on their books that has met with some success, withstood federal court challenge in the 9th and remained undefeated by another recent Proposition intended to dilute it.

Go ahead Dems, make me a bipartisan believer - by doing the job the Republicans refuse to do.

By BW

November 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

MHS and roska, I hope you two make sense to one another, because that is as far as it goes. Did you both happen to come across some scripts for talk radio?

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

No scripts but I did come across a story that reminds me of the sense that you BW, the illegal aliens and those who support them make.

Once upon a time not so very far away there was a group of chickens which came over to the American hog farm uninvited that immediately commenced talking about having breakfast. These chickens were all too willing to supply all the eggs, they said. However, they demanded of the hogs, since the hogs were so fat and had plenty, that the hogs would have to supply all the ham and bacon.

Makes real good sense having a feast at someone else’s expense when it doesn’t cost YOU very much.

By Bubba

November 12, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Good grief, it’s starting to sound like a debate in the Ayn Rand Institute.

Bottom line is this: Illegals are here because we let them in. Dems and Repubs alike. The NIMBYs said, “to hell with this, I’m moving.” Which is good for construction workers, ‘cause they get to build new stuff, and for bleeding hearts, ‘cause they get to take care of those that can’t take care of themselves. But wait. We don’t have enough construction workers to build these new subdivions. No matter. Singleton Road, Buford Highway in Duluth, they got plenty of labor. Hell, my foreman hablows espanyol.

Isn’t it interesting that the Gwinnexicans are living in the houses that the NIMBYs are leaving to move into the houses that will get built by Gwinnexicans? Am I the only one that sees this?

By Woody Bass

November 12, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Michael: Oh… I know what he SAID. Im not disagreeing with you on that at all. He also SAID he would lower taxes on the Middle Class.

No doubt in my mind that two of his three biggest promises - he wont or wont be able to accomplish. And maybe not all three. Considering one rumor of his candidates for the Tech Cabinet appointment has been a proponent of shipping jobs overseas (or atleast for allowing more Visas for overseas labor - same difference?). He wont be able to cut taxes because that 900 billion from the bailout alone has gotta come from somewhere. That doesnt even count the cost of the healthcare plan.

I am sure we will all be discussing this at great length in the coming years.

By Bubba

November 12, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Atlas shrugged.

By Michael H. Smith

November 12, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Thank GOD Woodrow you can see that importing foreign labor -legally and illegally - into this country to replace American workers is one and the same thing as sending American jobs offshore.

Wonder why the Democrats are so myopic, is it because they refuse to use both sides of their brain?

Senator Byron Drogan a Democrat probably said it best when he called them BRAIN DEAD politicians.

I understand the Republicans entirely, they have just plain sold-out to these multi-nationalists flat world globalists. All they want to do is spray a little Free Trade on everything and say problems solved.

Again we agree on what Obama can actually do. I said that before he was elected. He will be hard pressed to do only one thing and he knows that better be getting this economy going again. Otherwise he will be a one-term President.

By roska

November 12, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

This link is pretty funny and states my feelings about the Obama revolution. It takes 25 seconds but it is worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8sX10_4

By Bob

November 13, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Yeah- Change is coming. Change is here.

Taylor’s Food & Spirits (Formerly, Whiskers for many years) was unceremoniously shut down yesterday. Fixtures being packed up & moved out.

The Golden Buddha Chinese restaurant is a hanging on by a thread.

Half the spaces in “Plaza Mexico” on Beaver Ruin are vacant, as well as most of the spaces in the Publix shopping Center on Campus Drive (Indian Trail)

Sonny’s is gone except for one location in Lawrenceville.

The only remaining Chilis within 10 miles of Norcross is adjacent to the dying mall and surrounded failing area. Good thing that mixed used development at Carthage - I mean the Ruins@Gwinnett Station was axed, huh?

The former “Restaurant Row” east of 85 on Pleasant hill is a desolation boulevard.

Other than Target, Kohl’s, Costco & Circuit City (Going out of business), Venture Drive, south of Steve Reynolds is becoming a ghost town.

But that’s OK. Its great to see all the ornate “Gwinnett Village” and “Gwinnett Place” signage and decorative masonry. Also -Gas is under two bucks!

What’s not to like?

By delois

November 13, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Just wait until the illegals all get amnesty once they remind our new lord and saviour about what he owes them at their rally in DC the day after the inauguration. Within months, there won’t be a single sign in Gwinnett County that will be in English. Maybe the new Spanish speaking cheerleaders in Lilburn can get a trip to DC to cheer at the rally.

By BW

November 13, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Only in Gwinnett could the voters elect McBush/Palin and all of the old guard of the county and have the nerve to whine nothing changes?

I am still trying to figure out how TAD’s equal illegals?

btw…has the sheriff started the program with ICE that he pouted about for so long?

If you just keep pointing fingers, someone will get a I poked out. Forget any help Washington when you insist on electing the same fools that has gotten you into this year after year.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

I am still trying to figure out how TAD’s equal illegals?

What did I say, Woodrow?

Like DUH!

Lets make this multiple choice so even people in denial can GET IT!

Name a private sector industry that is known to employ illegal aliens?

a. Construction

b. Hospitality

c. Leisure

d. Landscaping

e. All of the above

Name the private sector industry that will benefit from a TAD.

a. Construction

b. Hospitality

c. Leisure

d. Landscaping

e. All of the above

Any doubt left as to how a TAD can equal illegal aliens?

Our help from Washington D.C. to remedy this problem:

Anyone have a doubt how Dear Leader and the rest intend to deal with illegal aliens?

Having a sufficient number arisen who have broke the law we have unanimous consent to simply legalize the illegal.

Problem solved!

PS. The Republic that will not enforce its’ laws will not remain a Republic for very long.

By BW

November 13, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Now if we only had sheriff that worked with ICE, gee if we only had a super-duper ordinance that prevented companies from hiring illegals.

TAD’s do not equal illegals, lack of enforcement from the likes of that crybaby some like to call sheriff does.

Face it, you cannot whine and blame others no matter how hard you try when you keep electing the same people over and over again.

Gee, how quickly we forget the Bush/McCain/Kennedy Immigration Bill.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

If we only had a few local Democrats that would walk the talk of their talking points agenda: Et al Going after the employers who hire illegal aliens.

Arizona has a law that goes after the employers who hire illegal aliens on their books that has met with some success, withstood federal court challenge in the 9th and remained undefeated by another recent Proposition intended to dilute it.

Your chance to shine Dems and put the Repubs in a very uncomfortable position when the General Assembly convenes.

Oh and Dems, if you really want to blind me with the brightness of your brilliance in your shining moment, add this as a condition for the developers to participate in TADs.

Any new construction or construction improvements made to existing buildings or facilities shall be built using U.S. Citizen labor first and foremost before any foreign national labor can be used and they must prove no U.S. citizens are available, willing or trainable to fill the job at no less than prevailing wages. No illegal unauthorized alien worker shall be employed by any TAD participant.

Like I said, at this point I’d settle for an honest Yankee, if I could find one on this blog. I’d even goes so far to settle for an honest Dem anywhere in this state that uses both sides of their brain when they talk about globalization and unfair trade as it relates to illegal aliens working and residing in this state.

Hola, Jim Martin.

By Bubba

November 13, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Hang on a minute. Bruce does have a point about Sheriff Crybaby. GCPD et. al. have been, for years, more concerned about fines than crimes. And I’ll agree that TADs do not, in and of themselves, invite illegals, that a lack of law enforcement vis a vis illegals does more to welcome illegals than TADs do.

That said, TADs are a bail out of a different ilk. Simply put, unless changes are made to the way in which a community is managed, the money won’t do a bit of good.

By BW

November 13, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

What part don’t you get MHS, that we do not live in Arizona, that I don’t write TAD’s, the people YOU elect do and those same people you elect do not believe in enforcing the law. You keep pointing fingers, do you shapen them before pointing, if so, you must working with a stub by now, but the facts remain the same.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

BW has got squat. The actions against illegal aliens needs to come from the state level when the federal level fails. Beyond zoning enforcement and enforcement at the jail when an illegal alien is locked-up the county really can’t do much other than be selective in awarding bids to voluntary E-verify employers who are willing to cooperate. The state can do very effective things because the states have constitutional authority to grant licenses on terms and conditions that are set by the state. Et al a drivers license which illegal aliens cannot receive from the State of Georgia.

TAD will benefit illegal alien employment which increases the developers profits from using cheaper labor.

One more time:

Lets make this multiple choice so even people in denial can GET IT!

Name a private sector industry that is known to employ illegal aliens?

a. Construction

b. Hospitality

c. Leisure

d. Landscaping

e. All of the above

Name the private sector industry that will benefit from a TAD.

a. Construction

b. Hospitality

c. Leisure

d. Landscaping

e. All of the above

Any doubt left as to how a TAD can equal illegal aliens?

As to the other point Bubba: Quality people make quality communities. There really is no kinder gentler way to say it; and money alone does not assure the quality of the person.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

What part don’t YOU get BW? Georgia can pass laws just like Arizona. And the State of Georgia can set the terms and conditions for TADs that will apply to every county and city in this state.

YOU still got nothing, BW.

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Do you have ANY idea what undocumented workers contribute in taxes compared to what they take out of the system?

Right now while we’re in the midst of an economic train-wreck (but NOT a recession, right LT? ) wouldn’t it be a great idea to round up these immigrants and send them away? Yeah, let’s start enforcing the laws NOW.

By BW

November 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

MHS, you were skipping throught clover when Lorrine made that hard hitting ordinance against illegals and skipped on when the sheriff stomped his feet and demanded 18 new deputies to put the federal program into effect, the ordinace is just a feel-good law that is meaningless and the sheriff is out playing spy with his hidden tape recorder.

Looks like you skipped right into a huge pile of reality dung.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Dang RIGHT lets start enforcing the law RIGHT NOW and I do actually know what illegal aliens contribute to state and local economies IDIOT. That information is available from the Congressional Budget Office which clearly says illegal aliens take more from state and local governments than they contribute in taxes. Only the federal government sees any positive contribution because illegal aliens cannot receive federal benefits. Also IDIOT, U.S. citizens don’t send money to foreign countries in remittances like illegal aliens do.

YEAH LETS START ENFORCING THE LAW RIGHT HERE AND NOW. WE DESERVE NOTHING LESS THAN A GOVERNMENT THAT ACTUALLY WORKS AND ENFORCES OUR LAWS.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

You BW are skipping while I’m working to actually bring about “the right change we need” by going to the level of government that can do what needs to be done.

This pouting about the BOC you are doing will never ever change the picture like the things I’ve been advocating for that needs to be done at the state level. I mean Federalism still works when it is given an chance.

By BW

November 13, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Good luck HMS, good luck. But the party you will be dealing with I’m afraid is more worried about saving their butts come next election than the issues.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Do I need to repeat myself?

You cry and cry I want a Democrat, I want a Democrat. These stupid people in Jaw-Jah won’t elect Democrats.

If we only had a few local Democrats that would walk the talk of their talking points agenda: Et al Going after the employers who hire illegal aliens.

Arizona has a law that goes after the employers who hire illegal aliens on their books that has met with some success, withstood federal court challenge in the 9th and remained undefeated by another recent Proposition intended to dilute it.

Your chance to shine Dems and put the Repubs in a very uncomfortable position when the General Assembly convenes.

Oh and Dems, if you really want to blind me with the brightness of your brilliance in your shining moment, add this as a condition for the developers to participate in TADs.

Any new construction or construction improvements made to existing buildings or facilities shall be built using U.S. Citizen labor first and foremost before any foreign national labor can be used and they must prove no U.S. citizens are available, willing or trainable to fill the job at no less than prevailing wages. No illegal unauthorized alien worker shall be employed by any TAD participant.

You can lead Dunkies to elective water but damn you can’t make’ em drink it. Even when it is flowing in their creek!

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

In June 2006, more than 500 economists and social scientists of varying political perspectives signed a letter to President Bush and members of Congress expressing their concern that, in the current debate over immigration, “some of the fundamental economics of immigration are too often obscured by misguided commentary. The prominent signatories, including five Nobel Prize winners, reiterated the consensus that immigration is a positive force on the U.S. economy and a net gain to U.S. citizens.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1727

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Undocumented immigrants contribute to the tax rolls and the Social Security Trust Fund. The U.S. Social Security Administration has estimated that undocumented immigrants contribute approximately $8.5 billion in Social Security and Medicare funds each year.

The U.S. Internal Revenue Service has determined that undocumented immigrants paid almost $50 billion in federal taxes from 1996 to 2003.

http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=724

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

As Teddy Kennedy so often says, we use the Congressional Budget Office around here, IDIOT.

But I’ll go you one better IDIOT: If the illegal alien that is willing to return home actually leaves this country and goes back home, I’ll give’em a pass on all unpaid taxes they owe, no charge for any government benefits they may have received and no criminal record. So they can actually get on “the pathway to earned citizenship”.

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Oh and by the way, a thought to consider with unemployment at all time highs - just lost another 500K, says the news.

For every illegal alien that leaves a job there will likely be 5 U.S. Citizens and a couple of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS applying for that job the moment it becomes vacant. We want lose a dime on that deal by an illegal alien leaving. In fact, more of that money will remain in this country.

And PuhLease, don’t tell me about the jobs Americans won’t do (Vicente Fox) when I see white guys riding on the back of garbage trucks (in very cold weather) collecting trash!

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

According to the Congressional Budget Office:

Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.

www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Nice try IDIOT. As usual mixing illegal immigration with legal immigration to call it one and the same “overall” is nothing but a very phony attempt at lying to accept crime and grant amnesty.

No one disputes LEGAL IMMIGRATION is a great benefit to this country. Equally no one should dispute that illegal immigration should not be allowed or accepted and is detrimental to this country. The U.S. receives more legal immigrants than any other country every year.

If the 12 million or so illegal immigrants left this country tomorrow the U.S. could very easily replace them with LEGAL IMMIGRANTS from around this world in very short order… “IF”, the U.S. really needed more people, which at the moment we really don’t with the unemployment numbers we have presently.

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Sure, wouldn’t it be great if we could box up and ship out all these brownies and import some nice, white, Euros. Preferably christian conservative Euros who don’t like gays…… or soccer.

Researchers from Rutgers University have found that, in general, immigrants are less likely than native-born citizens to be incarcerated.

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

In Sept. 2007, former presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani said on The Glenn Beck Program, “Glenn, it’s not a crime. I know that’s very hard for people to understand, but it’s not a federal crime…In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it’s not a criminal proceeding. It’s a civil proceeding.”

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

In 2000, 3 percent of the 45.2 million males age 18 to 39 in the United States were in federal or state prisons or local jails at the time of the census. The incarceration rate of native-born men in this age group was 5 times higher than the incarceration rate of foreign-born men. (Immigration Policy Center, Spring 2007)

Among the U.S.-born, 9.8 percent of all male high-school dropouts were in jail or prison in 2000. Only 1.3 percent of immigrant men who were high-school dropouts were incarcerated. (Immigration Policy Center, Spring 2007)

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Crime Rates Have Declined As Immigration Has Increased

At the same time that immigration—especially undocumented immigration—has reached and surpassed historic highs, crime rates in the United States have declined, notably in cities with large immigrant populations (including cities with large numbers of undocumented immigrants such as Los Angeles and border cities like San Diego and El Paso, as well as New York, Chicago, and Miami). The Uniform Crime Reports released each year by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) demonstrate the decline of both violent crime and property crime at the same time that the foreign-born population has grown.

From 1994 to 2005, the violent crime rate overall declined 34.2 percent, reaching the lowest level ever in 2005. In particular, homicide rates fell 37.8 percent to levels last seen in the late 1960s, robbery rates dropped 40.8 percent, and assault rates declined 31.9 percent {Figure 1}.14 Moreover, the proportion of serious violent crimes committed by juveniles decreased during this period and the number of gun crimes stabilized at levels last seen in 1988.15

The property crime rate as a whole declined 26.4 percent between 1994 and 2005. Specifically, burglary rates have stabilized after years of decline, theft rates reached the lowest level ever recorded in 2005, and motor-vehicle theft rates leveled off after 2000 {Figure 2}.16

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/Rumbault_Ewing/printable.html

By What're you an idiot

November 13, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Given the cumulative weight of this evidence, immigration is arguably one of the reasons that crime rates have dropped in the United States over the past decade and a half.

Indeed, a further implication of this evidence is that if immigrants suddenly disappeared and the country became immigrant-free (and illegal-immigrant free), crime rates would likely increase.

The problem of crime and incarceration in the United States is not “caused” or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status. But the misperception that the opposite is true persists among policymakers, the media, and the general public, thereby impoverishing a genuine understanding—a situation that undermines the development of reasoned public responses to both crime and immigration.

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/Rumbault_Ewing/printable.html

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Try to focus on what is being contested. Immigration, “legal immigration”, is not in legal contest.

What part of illegal is not a crime?

Illegal means illegal.

C’ mon IDIOT you’re not even entertaining now.

In the interests of serving equal time against pro illegal immigration propaganda a Website link for public consumption.

http://www.cis.org/

By BW

November 13, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

Not the best site HMS to quote, “Our Mission; It is the Center’s mission to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted.”

Translation: Only Wasp’s May apply.

‘What’re you an idiot’ has done a lot more research than I. As you MHS, I am a Native American, to me I can say all others are illegals. To me, there can be no boarders in the America’s, we are one people. How one can justify being of Native Blood but hold so clear a boarder lines is beyond me?

What the clear path is, it wouldn’t just handle illegals, but drop-outs and the homeless as well, THE DRAFT.

I’ll bet the homeless and illegals would jump at the chance to learn a trade and get an education. The others may take some work.

Back in my day the Judge offered you four choices, the Army, Navy, Marines or Air Force. We could offer the same deal to illegals, once back they would be legal.

The drop-outs and the homeless who refuse, well it is a draft and I always believe those that didn’t earn their right to be here will be the first to ship out.

Over

By Michael H. Smith

November 13, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

BW it is just as good to quote that site as the ones you use.

Save the claptrap. I’m just as native American as you are and in this state even more native at that; and I’m not Protestant BW.

No deals, no amnesty ever again in any form given to illegal aliens. Just enforce the law if they don’t want to voluntarily return and do things the lawful way.

If the Democrats don’t want to stand behind their talk on going after the employers that hire illegal aliens then don’t blame the people of Georgia for not electing them, when they show the voters they are dishonest and cannot be trusted.

By BW

November 14, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

MHS, I didn’t use sites or quotes, please do not confuse me with, “What’re you an idiot”. I stated that he/she has done a lot more research than I, yes MHS there are far more that disagree with you than agree.

Now you go into the boo-hooing blaming the TOP Dem that will not even take over till the 20th of Jan next year for all the woes of the last eight years?

Is responsibility even considered a word in the South?

By Michael H. Smith

November 14, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

You don’t use site or quotes, baloney. There are just many, if not more that disagree with you and the other illegal alien supporters.

Is truth in the vocabulary of one certain Yankee now blogging?

BIG LIE > Now you go into the boo-hooing blaming the TOP Dem that will not even take over till the 20th of Jan next year for all the woes of the last eight years?

Didn’t boo-hoo at all. Simply said the Dems must stand behind the things they said and do what they said.

Is responsibility even considered a word in the South?

Sure is, that is why this Southerner holds government as most culpable. And one that intends to hold Dear Leader Elect to his words.

By BW

November 14, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

Like you have with the Gov.? It seems funny to me that now the Dems have to be tough and kick butt when the Pugs were not able.

But as you pointed out above all issues should be handled at state level, you even suggested above you were on the case, as I said before, “Good Luck”.

Good-night, it has been interesting as always, but sleep calls.

By Michael H. Smith

November 14, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

Perhaps that is why the Repubs got their butts kicked this election, did that thought ever cross your mind?

Do you think Saxby got the message that put him into a runoff? His support for Bush on S1348 cost him. But like I said now the game has changed, so have the rules.

By Michael H. Smith

November 15, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

How They Pay Taxes:

Interesting development taking place out in Colorado, Woodrow. This item I’m sure didn’t make it into the Congressional Budget Office report. I know how you like paying taxes for children and by now you no how I like to vote against things like TAD and SPLOST including the motivation behind that NO vote. (See my explanation on TAD = Illegal Alien employment)

Weld cracks down on 1,300 ID theft case

Suspects may have received $2.6 million in federal tax refunds.

Snippet from the the Greely Tribune….

According to investigators, the system had four steps:

» A new illegal alien arrives in the country and buys a Social Security number from someone on the street, or from criminals that specialize in obtaining ID from legal citizens.

» When the immigrant gets a job, he or she uses the Social Security number for withholding taxes from his or her paycheck. Many times in these cases, the worker claimed to have numerous children, which lowered the amount of taxes that would be owed.

» At Amalia’s Translation and Tax Services, the owner would use the alien’s stolen Social Security number under a phony name, secure a legal tax identification number, then fill out forms, which would result in a large tax return.

According to the DA and sheriff’s investigations, many of the illegal immigrants would pay only a few hundred dollars in withholding taxes, but would receive an average of $2,000 in a tax refund.

If the 1,300 suspects total about $2.6 million in refunds over the 2007 and 2006 tax years, authorities said, the amount they paid in income taxes is estimated to be less than half of that, about $1 million.

Internal Revenue Service Records show the transactions are legal, because the illegal immigrants used tax identification numbers to file for refunds and claiming children under the child tax credit system…

>

The complete - ongoing - story will blow some people’s minds.

http://www.greeleytribune.com/

By Sean

November 15, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

I don’t think anyone of you know what a socialist even is. You just hear catchy words on the news and regurgitate it. Open a dictionary please, nobody is going to do it for you.

By Comrades

November 15, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Getting closer to the USSA everyday… Blurrrrrrrrrrrrp!

By BW

November 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Like the government owning (or bailing out) the banks or the government deciding which trash service you will use?

I already promised not to mention the stadium.

By Michael H. Smith

November 16, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

Ah don’t stop when you’re on a role. Big Three (offshore outsourcing) Automakers GM, Ford, Chrysler and the UAW? Government healthcare?

Little TAD here, little TAD there and soon, we’ll all be comrades.

By BW

November 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

How can we have a true Free Enterprise or Capitalism system that Republicans love to believe we have under Republican administrations when we subsidize them corporate welfare more than we spend on social welfare, not including Social Security ot bush’s Drug give-away?

I know even the most embarrassed Republican try to included them, you know those embarrassed Republicans who say they’re something else now.

Interesting column, TAD’s make illegals, TAD’s causes socialism, can’t wait to see where TAD’s cause infertility.

Try TAD’s make sense, something needs to be done to help improve the long forgotten area’s of this county.

By Michael H. Smith

November 16, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

More TAD non-sense.

Under the present two parties corporate welfare will never end. Both have their hands in the public cookie jar giving to the corporate masters they serve, or owe.

The TAD is a done deal, the developers got their payday (government bailout) as requested.

Little TAD here, little TAD there and soon, we’ll all be comrades.

By roska

November 17, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

BW,

If TAD’s could cause infertility in the areas where TAD’s are proposed then we might be onto a solution.

MHS,

You are right on.

We’ve gone from Wayne Hill allowing anybody to build anything anywhere to Bannister and his cronies paying the developers to build in areas where they have political control over the contracts. All the while the voter is asleep at the wheel.

By BW

November 17, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

“If TAD’s could cause infertility in the areas where TAD’s are proposed then we might be onto a solution”, the entire South should be a TAD then.

By MG

February 19, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this

Change is coming, even in Gwinnett

Are you kidding me? Change came and went y-e-a-r-s ago.