Norcross.Talk

By Bruce Wilcox

August 18, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Oh give me a break, if we had any pride we wouldn’t even be in Beijing, a communist country with a terrible human rights record. One of the most polluted countries on earth, the country that specializes in Wal-Mart specials made by sweat shops. The country who plays with our economic system by adjusting the value of their own currency.

I never shop at Wal-Mart, I always try to buy American made products, I go out of my way to buy Union made products. My wife is a Union member and I was a Union member, plus we haven’t missed a vote since 1993. My truck is a Dodge and my wife drives a Chevy.

Pride in the Olympic basketball team, all professional? Pride in kids that are trained a half day in the pool or gym and a half day being tutored?

What happened to the true amateur status, I guess it dissappeared with Buy America or Union-Made?

By Voice of Raisin

August 19, 2008 3:18 AM | Link to this

While I agree about the part about not being in communist countries, go to say…

Bruce:

Also my brother owned two Dodge trucks, both with major defects in design & reliability.

I remember the stories about the “proud” union auto workers who used to stick their gum, cig. butts, & garbage in cars as they went down the assembly line.

Now that’s pride! (?)

By Michael H. Smith

August 19, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

People complain about how jobs are being lost overseas when we handed them over and not fighting (enough) to take them back.

Do some research on this subject Woodrow. This glib comment serves a great injustice to the reality of the issue and the underlying complaint against Globalization. Afterward you may consider editing your flippant statement.

By the way, Woodrow…. Globalization has two parts: Offshore outsourcing and the importation of cheap replacement labor i.e. immigration. American jobs are not being lost. They are litteraly being legally stolen and subsidized to boot by design and with the consent of our Congress and this present administration of George W. Bush.

The so-called free-market is being manipulated beyond belief where Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” has been tied.

By woodys mom

August 19, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

while i agree with most of what woody says. there is only one thing i partly disagree with him. there is no way for you to fight for your job if a company wants to send it overseas. the only way to fight it is to elect officals that will fight for us. i think its time to clean house. i saw this coming years ago. when the usa started sending more and more work overseas.. what do they think they were doing.. saving a few bucks. but if there are no workers left here whos going to buy their products and services. so my prediction is holding true. unless our government gets off of its tail we are headed for even deeper trouble.

as far as the olympics are concerned. i look forward to each and every olympics. how many people in this world can say they can do what they do. most are not the professionals like you see in football basketball baseball. most dont get high salaries until they have finished their trek to the olympics. they get the glory only for a short time.. and some never get to that point.

so do i agree with my son on the olympics.. most certainly.. i worked the olympics when it came to atlanta.. as a volunteer.. i got the chance to see track and field first hand.. got to see the opening and closing ceremonies. what a lifetime memory i will carry.. pride in america and the athlelic’s representing our country whether they get the gold or not.

By Michael H. Smith

August 19, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Yep, “apples don�t fall far from their trees”.

Only we can or as I hope will, fight for us and the fight is not one of us against them, the fight is one of us for us.

By Michael H. Smith

August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Hypothesis: If U.S. Citizens were to ever unite in an effort of economic gorilla warfare, in a targeted effort to concentrate on one or two selected companies or corporations that are known to offshore outsource or hire foreign labor to fill American jobs in displacing American workers or for the purpose of lowering American worker wages, with the expressed intent of putting said company or corporation out of business, including contacting members of Congress that supported this Anti-American worker effort of our intent, do you still believe that company or corporation will send jobs overseas or hire imported foreign labor?

By Katie

August 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

All I know is that I’m sick of calling a help line or customer service and getting stuck trying to explain my problem to someone who can’t speak English. We outsource jobs to India, China and Africa. We need to stop this. There are thousands of welfare recipients who need to find work and we keep giving it away.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Raisin, my Dodge is a 1992 Dakota made in the good old USA. Dodge/Chrysler have some models made in other counties, try country, Cananda.

“Unions are irrelevant.”, that is a opinion, not fact. You do realize that in every trade agreement we make the Right to Organize is one of the major demands. Of course we have never enforce any of the conditions of our free trade agreements, but it does make them some a bit better.

I love stories too, when I was a wee lad I loved Mother Goose, but as I grew older I understood they were just stories. You can believe all the stories you want Raisin.

Stop by a police or fire station and tell the boys you, “Don�t need the crutch of a union” , you may end up needing a crutch afterall.

By Voice of Raisn

August 19, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Nope, you can’t dismiss those stories as “Mother Goose” tales.

I know a guy with a Fiero (GM product for those who don’t know) who dissassembled the car for modications and found an old cigarette butt stuck in the seam sealant in the floorpan when the car was built…took photos! Of couple of others with gum in their Cadillacs too.

Unions are irrelevant in the USA, that is fact, not opinion, in most cases. There are always exceptions.

That is not intended as disrespect but as you can’t continue to (attempt) to stronghold employers. Unions do not make up for having marketable skills.

I’m sure there are some good and proud & skilled union workers, but as a whole…

No problem going anywhere to give an opinion, we’ll go together, and see who leaves with a crutch and who leaves with a limb missing… ;)

By Bruce Wilcox

August 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Raisn the number of Unions in the South is growing, mostly because CEO packages grow while cutting the employees benefits.

To me when someone states they do not need a Union aa a crutch and has a marketable skill usaually means they’re expert at kissing butt.

But of course, that is only my opinion.

By Rage Against The Machine

August 20, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this

As much as I hate to agree with Mr Wilcox. We will eventually see unions with bargaining power in Public Safety Departments in Georgia. Is it bad or good? Who knows. But when they come. You can thank your local County Commissioners and City Councils for the past 30 years of sub standard pay and benefits for Firefighters and Law Enfocement.

By woodys mom

August 20, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

for those companies that hire service reps in other countries there is a solution. two things you can do.. one is ask to speak to an american. this sends a message. i have a hearing problem… i cant understand them. very few can you understand what they say..so ask for an american. i had a problem with a product i bought.. i called the company service line.. this was a fun thing..someone in india. they sent someone to fix it way to far away.. it took to weeks for them to get it fixed. then it lasted only two days.. so called back.. the best thing i found out from this is ask for a manager .. most of the time you get an american. they dont like to send you to a manager and kept asking me questions. i told them i didnt want to talk to them i wanted to talk to a manager.. and quit talkiing. they kept on asking and i kept up the silence. finally i got an american manager.. someone i could talk to and understand.

By Marty' Mother

August 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

“To me when someone states they do not need a Union aa a crutch and has a marketable skill usaually means they�re expert at kissing butt.”

Now that’s just about the silliest thing I ever heard! What…???

By Mary's Mother

August 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

“To me when someone states they do not need a Union aa a crutch and has a marketable skill usaually means they�re expert at kissing butt.”

Now that’s just about the silliest thing I ever heard! What…???

By Bruce Wilcox

August 20, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Mary’s Mother, read the entire column, Rasin and I were exchanging friendly jabs, instead of expert I’ll just say good, better?

By Michael H. Smith

August 20, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

To argue a case for the good of unions, in comparing government verses private sector is fool-hearted. The government has no competition.

Personal challenge Mr. Wilcox, I�m not going to attack you personally on this issue but try me on this. Contact BAC local 8 here in Atalanta and get the history and the real story. Then come back and tell me all about it, fair enough?

Mr. McCain if you remember made a comment, in fact, a challenge to a group of BAC members that they could not pick lettuce all day even for $50 per hour. Needless to say, Mr. McCain lacked the honesty and integrity to issue the first contract to any BAC member or former members.

I�m still waiting on my contract John McCain. For $50 per hour I will gladly make you out a liar!

Unions have had their day and that day is gone. The American people need to wake up and realize only we can and will fight for us. When the AFL-CIO joins with the ACLU to stop �no match letters� from being issued to companies that hire unauthorized workers (illegal aliens) can the union betrayal of American workers be any clearer?

It is time for us to unite as the union of this country with over 280 million members strong to do the simplest of things: Buy the American made products and services that we can find and refuse to buy the competing foreign made products that are being made on foreign shores or here at home using illegal foreign labor.

That is the only way we are going to bring home the gold � literally!

By Bruce Wilcox

August 20, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Let’s discuss Unions in general then I’ll look up the BAC #8, fair enough? As I said above, with management and CEO’s packages, some growing at 400 percent over workers, there is a growing trend to go Union.

We are returning to the same events that forced Unions to be formed in the first place, fat cats raking it in and giving the employee’s nothing. Matter of fact since the Bush Aadministration took over the average workers pay hasn’t grown, but shrank, except in Union shops.

My wife has worked for the same company for twenty four years now, right after the economic downturn after 9/11 all the employees took a two dollar pay cut to help the company. That Christmas all the managers received rather nice bonuses, the employee’s received nothing. Next thing you know they formed a Union, being a rather large company over 80% of all sites went Union. A very stupid and selfish mistake based a greed by the management forced the employee’s hand.

Now I’ll admit there are some bad Union chapters, but it is the exception not the rule. But remember, there is corruption everywhere, look at politics for one, no Union needed there. Companies that hire illegals, corruption. Non-union builders, with illegals and shoddy work, the list is endless.

Now if you want to use BAC #8 as an example that represents all Unions, be fair and look up BAC #8 in Illinois. I can imagine BAC #8 was a bad chapter, am I correct? Do I really need to defend a bad chapter when, as I said, they are the exception, not the rule.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 20, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Mr. Smith I cannot find anything for BAC #8 Atlanta, even checked with the national listings for BAC chapters and none are listed for Georgia. I can imagine your point was they were corrupt, looks like the National took away their Charter.

By Cindy

August 20, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I would pick lettuce for $50 hour…gladly. Would the union get part of my hourly wage or just union dues? Although, I’d have to have insurance coverage too…or it wouldn’t be worth it…having an individual policy to pay would offset it to practically $10 hour.

By Michael H. Smith

August 21, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this

You really are missing the point Mr. Wilcox. I could have used the local in Buffalo, NY and the story would have been the same one. Just to enlighten you since it is apparent you are at a loss, and if BAC local 8 in Atlanta is now under the radar, or if the charter even remains in effect, I�d say it is or was, about typical of most unions - virtually useless, unless your idea of collecting dues serves some purpose to the rank and file members other than that of fleecing the flock so to speak. It has been awhile since I�ve talked to the owner of the last company I�m aware of that singed the contract with local 8, and that was to help a few old members get their pensions from the local and international. It wouldn�t surprise me if they disbanded altogether or merged into another local.

Your example of BAC Illinois is by the way not of very much worth either. Remember, Mr. Wilcox you are at a very extreme disadvantage in discussing a trade I have spent most of my adult life working in with many skilled tradesmen from around this country, which includes a good number from Illinois, both union and non-union. I have the inside story you will never know - straight from BAC members mouths. There is no except to the rule Mr. Wilcox, sorry if that disappoints you.

I�ll not disagree with your assessment of the CEO�s in this country. Well, perhaps only to say the percentages could be as high as 1000% over common rank and file employee earnings and the fact that these bums are ripping off the stockholders while lining their pockets and losing corporations billions of dollars.

Unions have not and cannot stop offshore outsourcing: Examples GM and Ford, fair enough? Unions really don�t care about the American workers just as long as they can collect those damn union dues from a warm body, even if that body is in this country illegally and unauthorized to work in this country - As I pointed out the AFL-CIO joined with the ACLU in court action to stop DHLS from issuing No Match Letters to companies� suspected of employing illegal labor. I don�t think you�ll have any trouble finding the AFL-CIO or the ACLU.

You are definitely wrong about returning to the events that brought about unions in this country. The days of �Redneck� West Virginia coal miners and Andrew Carnegie�s steal workers are long gone. There are no more �Company Stores� for a man to owe his soul to, so St Peter no longer has to wait on any raged Appalachian �Hillbillies� from North to South dying from mine explosions or black lung.

Where the return is taking place is with companies and corporations circumventing anti-trust laws and labor laws - which Progressive Teddy Roosevelt proved instrumental in bring about - by going offshore. Now Mr. Wilcox that is the real point and issue; and that is something the unions can do nothing about but we as the union of this country darn well can.

If we don�t buy the products and services of these American chartered corporations that have gone offshore and buy the products and services from American corporations that have remained loyal to the American workers (where we can of course) to make this a fight of one that is being fought by us for us we can defeat this elitists multinational monopolistic attempt to destroy the economic backbone of this country.

Point in case: I bought an item tonight, one in which I had a choice of purchasing something that was made in the USA or the other from Columbia as suggested by the store clerk. I gave the clerk a piece of my American mind about his suggestion and let him know exactly why I bought Made In The USA. Somewhere in this country an American just received a bit of job security and part of a paycheck from me to pay their bills, put food on their table and likely provide substance for their children.

Yeah, I�m damn proud of that!

By Bruce Wilcox

August 21, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

With all due respect Mr. Smith, how could it be possible that I would be at a disavantage? My wife is a Union member now and I was a very active Union member for over twenty years, not an outsider looking in?

You look at Unions from the viewpoint of an owner, not a worker. GM and Ford destroyed themselves, not the Unions. The Union didn’t design the cars, didn’t market the cars or couldn’t see the handwriting on the wall in Japanese. When GM and Ford were number one and two in the world they could care less what the Union wanted, they gave it to them. How many times have you refused a raise Mr. Smith?

Most contracts are made by the Local Chapter, not the National. What does that mean? It means you have local workers that need their jobs, they need to keep the shop, station, hotel, what have you open, it is their living. Now you have the owners that want to keep an operation open but need to make a fair profit. What could be more fair than the two groups coming to an agreement that benefits both?

Back in the days of old most of the dues ended up with the National, they built palaces to themselves, sort of like Gwinnett’s Board of Education. Now most of it is retained by the Local, it is used for legal advice, mostly on the contract, just to make sure everything is neat and proper, social events and travel.

My wifes contract came up last year, my advice was to keep all health benefits and let the company offer the raises. They kept all their health benefits and the company offer raises that were better than expected. Everyone is happy, the Union, mamagement and the main office.

An aside…since they went Union production has grown to the point where they are building a new shop to handle the increase.

It is a lot different when you know the facts and are not on the outside looking in.

By Michael H. Smith

August 22, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

The disadvantage you have is in not knowing the trade, the particulars of the union in question and where things went wrong locally. Try telling me those facts. You can’t, because they are not listed or published. Yes Mr. Wilcox, on this one you really are on the outside with no facts in hand and really don’t know where to begin looking to find them.

I was a member of another union (a much larger union) that was better organized where the particulars were completely different. I can tell you there is no way to make any comparisons between the two, other than stating the obvious fact that in both cases it is organized labor.

Where you do have facts that are clearly before you, as I have pointed out, the union over most every union is working against rank and file union members by taking court actions in stopping those “no match letters” from being sent to employers that hire illegal aliens.

It is bad enough when you have your fellow U.S. citizen workers at times unscrupulously working against you but no American should have to compete with foreign nationals illegally in this country and unauthorized to work any job being supported by the AFL-CIO which uses member’s dues to assure that unfair illegal competition will succeed in displacing American workers, lowering American worker wages, benefits and lowering workplace standards across the broad.

By the way Mr. Wilcox, it is not always a smart move to take a pay raise or push to get one, same said for more benefits. The former local 8 found that out the hard way, along with a hard learned business lesson: You never concede any work - outside of I-285.

Yep, it sure does make a difference when you have the facts.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 24, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Believe it or not, my imnternet and phone were out from Thursday eve till this afternoon, guess what, they’re not Union.

Your agruement of “the union over most every union is working against rank and file union members”, is silly.

Your entire bashing of all Unions is based on one dinky little Local, of course the information, by your own admission is, “not listed or published.”?

The disadvantage you have right now is credibility, the entire basis of your stance is based on things that are “not listed or published”. That gives you kind of free range with facts doesn’t it.

I think my explaintion of Unions covers the subject well, otherwise why would wife’s company be expanding here?

By Michael H. Smith

August 24, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

The AFL-CIO is dinky? Lack of credibilty? Talk about silly.

Your explanation- propaganda is garbage and unions are not the answer or salvation for American workers. More times than not in present times and terms they are counter-productive. As I cited unions are working against American workers union and non-union by advocating for and protecting illegal unauthorized foreign nationals working in this country.

By Michael H. Smith

August 25, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

Here the union grows again

The UAW and the workers have seized on leaked business documents from Toyota that detail a plan to put a lid on manufacturing wages in the United States. At a new factory being built in Mississippi, Toyota plans to pay workers about $20 an hour in a region where many people earn $12 to $13 an hour. The average Toyota worker at Georgetown makes about $25 an hour…

…Gritton said adjusting pay scales would ultimately translate into stable employment for American autoworkers. He said Toyota is seeking to maintain cost-effective growth in the United States so it can compete with low-wage countries such as China, Mexico and Brazil.

Where did Ford go? Mexico

Where did GM go? China

The union didn’t stop Ford or GM from offshore outsourcing jobs and if the workers in Kentucky think the union will do any better for them with Toyota they are only fooling themselves.

To date no foreign car maker has been unionized. Doubtful Toyota will be the first.

By Katie

August 25, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this

Harley Davidson has remained 100% American made, other companies should take this as an example.

By Michael H. Smith

August 25, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Check the history on Harley-Davidson. Unions did not bring that company back from disaster. You can give the accolades to Willie G.and the employee owners on that one. Not to forget a very, very, extremely loyal American customer base following.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 25, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Harley Davidson has an untypical relationship with the union. Continuous improvement techniques could have been stopped if the company did not have a good relationship with the union. The union viewed management as a partner instead of an adversary. Management’s good-faith dealing’s with the union was a factor in this special relationship. Harley-Davidson has a history of in-sourcing; it tries to bring as much work as possible into the plant to forestall any layoffs. The union has considerable control over what kind of work is outsourced to other companies. So the union is able to create a “job security” by choosing the work that is done in-house. Bob Klebar, the president of the union stated, “When times are good, we�d outsource it. But if things get tougher, we�d look at those projects and maybe bring them in-house to keep the employment” (Filipczak 41). He also mentioned that “instead of focusing on what we think we have a right to, his people work closely with the production department, and everyone concentrates on the final customer. It really binds us together and makes us go in the right direction” (Filipczak 41). Teerlink, Harley-Davidson�s CEO, said that total employee involvement (EI) cannot exist until management and labor can agree that they have a mutual goal: the long-term success of the company (Reid 173). In this

http://stroked.virtualave.net/casestudy.shtml

By Michael H. Smith

August 25, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Check out the latest union contract with Harley-Davidson. Pay concession were made, benefit packages were reduced.

Harley union members approve deal Company will expand here with two-tier wages

The lowest starting wage rate for new hires will be $18.25 an hour for powertrain production jobs, but the union-negotiated training program will encourage workers to move up into machine operator positions that will pay $24.42 an hour. Current employees in those positions will continue to earn $28.83 an hour.

COLA payments will be suspended until 2012 for all employees and the new hires will not be eligible to participate in the contributory annuity that is administered by the company. However, the new hires will be covered under the defined benefit pension that pays a multiplier of $47 for every year of service.

A new cost-sharing health care package will cover new hires on January 1, 2007, and cover all employees on July 1, 2008. It has the same choice network as the existing plan. Two levels of coverage require no employee contribution. The third one, called the Heritage Plan, will require a monthly contribution of $15 to $25 for a single person, and between $47 and $78 for family coverage.

Again, the union did not turn the company around from disaster. That feat was the doing of Willie G. Davidson and a group of employee owners. Otherwise there would not be a company for a union.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 25, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

A Local is not the AFL-CIO, I explained it great detail above, it is just a like the Elks, because one club is a bunch of screw-ups the entire Elks Organization is not. Very simple.

GM and Ford, again I explained in great detail how it was the management that screwed up and not the Union.

“As I cited unions are working against American workers union and non-union by advocating for and protecting illegal unauthorized foreign nationals working in this country.” give us a few examples of what Union is doing this, or like Local 8, there are no records, plus as I pointed out their charter has been revoked by the AFL-CIO, so if they do not have a charter, how can they be with the National?

Buy American, I like that Mr. Smith, showed you paided attention to my very first comment.

By Michael H. Smith

August 25, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Hooey! I count your comments worthless Mr. Wilcox. You have absolutely nothing to do with my pro-American stance. To the contrary you are against it.

�As I cited unions are working against American workers union and non-union by advocating for and protecting illegal unauthorized foreign nationals working in this country.� give us a few examples of what Union is doing this, or like Local 8, there are no records, plus as I pointed out their charter has been revoked by the AFL-CIO, so if they do not have a charter, how can they be with the National?

The local 8 charter left with the BA.(in something you know nothing about).

The AFL-CIO is the unions- union made up of 59 member unions. I’ve given the example already where the AFL-CIO (representing 59 unions) in a court action stopped DHS from issuing no match letters.

No Match Letters

Records 1 Wilcox 0

By Bruce Wilcox

August 25, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

“(DHS) rule will threaten jobs of U.S. citizens and other legally authorized workers simply because of errors in the government�s inaccurate Social Security earnings databases. The rule violates workers� rights and imposes burdensome obligations on employers who receive Social Security Administration (SSA) �no-match� letters that inform an employer of alleged discrepancies between employee records and the SSA database.”

You do know how to read, don’t you Mr. Smith? Do you have a problem with comprehenion? It has nothing to do with protecting illegals, sorry foiled again.

Now Mr. Smith, I’ve been more than decent in this discussion, seems you cannot handle being proven wrong so many times, take a time out, go hold your breath, but try to act like a mature individual in a debate or discussion.

Chow.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 25, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

The Harley-Davidson contract just proves what I have been saying all along, it is in the best interests of both the Union and Management to work together.

Now who exactly saved HD, Ronnie Reagan and the Japanese themselves.

President Ronald Reagan increased tariffs on large Japanese motorcycles from 4.4 percent to 49.4 percent. But this increase was only effective for five years and would decline annually.

Minutes away from bankruptcy in 1985, CEO Richard Teerlink convinced lenders to accept a restructuring plan. Using management principles adopted from the Japanese, new marketing strategies, and manufacturing techniques, Harley improved quality and began the long battle to regain its market share. In 1987, one year before the tariffs on Japanese heavyweight motorcycles were scheduled to end, Harley announced they no longer needed special tariffs to compete with the Japanese motorcycle giants; showing confidence in the new system.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 25, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

The concessions made in the HD contract gained the Union 200 more jobs with the expansion, hardly a concession, hardly a concession.

By Michael H. Smith

August 26, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Hooey, Mr. Wilcox. The spin is about the same usual drab kind of come back as expected. No match letters do not threaten in U.S. Citizen’s job or person. That is ACLU and AFL-CIO union spin used to protect illegal aliens from being deported. The HD contract was not the product of the union working together with the company, the State of Wisconsin stepped in to resolve the differences.

Now who exactly saved HD, Ronnie Reagan and the Japanese themselves.

BS all the way.

Willie G. Davidson brought Harley-Davidson back from the ashes, along with that ever so crucial American customer willing to buy the product line he produced.

Reagan did do one thing smart with trade and the Japanese. In very simple terms he said, “if you want to sell in the American marketplace you will have to produce products in America”. In fact, Toyota was one of the main companies he directed this wise trade policy towards, unlike these Bush Free Trade nut-jobs who would have us believe that sending jobs to foreign shores and importing labor to fill any and every job left behind that can’t be outsourced.

Time for a little face the reality check:

(1) American labor cannot compete with 2 dollar per hour labor or 33 cent an hour labor as in Mexico and China respectively.

(2) Our government cannot give tax breaks, subsidies and taxpayer financed loans to American incorporated companies to locate outside of this country and tax the hell out of them if they stay in this country. Even Obama follows that logic.

(3) Flooding the labor market in this country with foreign labor, legal and illegal, gives companies and corporations near complete control over the wages American labor can earn. Hang the minimum wage and the union. The law of supply and demand is defeated when companies and corporations can control both the supply and demand of labor, worse with the government’s blessings, even worst yet when Unions work to help accomplish this despicable highly manipulative goal, as in the case of the AFL-CIO anti-American worker court actions.

As for this garbage.

The concessions made in the HD contract gained the Union 200 more jobs with the expansion, hardly a concession, hardly a concession.

It gain the Union more than 200 dues paying members thanks to the efforts put forth by the State of Wisconsin not your damn belligerent Union that could not come to terms with the company. Oh but wait a minute, isn’t all of this that came to pass in Wisconsin with HD what Toyota is basically doing in the case of Kentucky, without the overhead of a worthless Union extorting money from the workers and the company?

Yes indeed. Toyota without the State, without a worthless Union, is going to use a two tiered pay structure and create more American jobs, likely a darn sight more than 200 jobs. Thank You!

You got to love the way the mob works the rackets in this country:

When the mafia extorts money it’s called crime.

When the Union extorts money it’s called negotiations.

When the government extorts money it’s called taxation.

Buy American, support Americans. “We the People” are the only Union we will ever need.

By Bruce Wilcox

August 26, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

I see you do have a problem with comprehenion?

By Michael h. Smith

August 26, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Why doesn’t this blog post links like it should, Woodrow?

By Bruce Wilcox

August 26, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

“Yes indeed. Toyota without the State”, don’t you mean CORPORATE WELFARE Mr. Smith? Much like we give the oil companies who spend more on buying back stock than exploration? Who haven’t even explored the 1000’s upon 1000’s of acres of leases they already have in these United States of America, including offshore sites?

Much like we gave a Korean car-maker while letting go of two of the United States major car makers, where was Sonny, in Korea handing out CORPORATE WELFARE to broaden our GLOBAL reach.

Yet you wonder where the jobs go?

By Michael H. Smith

August 27, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

You bet indeed. Look at the details Mr. Wilcox, what is Toyota doing? Actually spreading the wealth around and increasing wages in a very poor State? While keeping those present jobs in Kentucky? Oh but most important of all look at the money that stays inside this country and it won’t take a crummy backstabbing corrupt union to get things done.

You mean like those oil companies that paid the big fat federal government money for the leasing of 1,000s and 1,000s of acres?

Not a possible thought, that one, there could be a reason why they are not drilling in many places like, where they know there is no oil or two, where there may be oil it will cost too much to recover? Duh

And, when they don’t drill on those leases they paid for but not drill on, those leases go back to the big fat federal government, which means the oil company will have to pay the big fat federal government again for those leases should they ever want to drill anywhere on those 1,000s and 1,000s of acres in the future?

Oh but wait, who went on vacation for five weeks instead of doing something about fixing the energy problem or making a better deal for the American consumer?

Who pretends to be against drilling and is invested heavily in Big Oil man T. Boone Pickens plan to use more Natural Gas, which means drill, drill, drill for Natural Gas? Guess that doesn’t mean anywhere offshore fro Natural Gas, right?

You mean like the two so-called major American car makers who went to Mexico and China where they did not have to contend with union demands and extortion for more, more, more every year in bigger pay packages and bigger benefit packages? The two car makers, GM and Ford, that are now paying foreign workers pennies compared to what the Korean car-maker will be paying Georgains? The two car makers, GM and Ford that will avoid paying any U.S. taxes, in fact one of them got a U.S. federal taxpayer loan assisted loan to build a plant on foreign shores?

My next car may be from a Korean car-maker but it will be Americans who make it, right here in the good old US of A and that money will stay here where Americans will get the benefit of it and not a foreign debt from it.

No I don’t wonder in the very least where or why the jobs go or why illegal immigration and abuse of legal immigration exists.

Now, you want to talk about a comprehension problem?

Nah, you just want to close the front-door and kick the backdoor slap off the hinges and unionize the whole damn mess and then call it America beautiful.

*HOGWASH! *

By Bruce Wilcox

August 27, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

“Not a possible thought, that one, there could be a reason why they are not drilling in many places like, where they know there is no oil or two, where there may be oil it will cost too much to recover? Duh”, why did the oil companies lease the lands, DUH? Get informed. But wait, those leases that they paid for they get get back a better return in CORPORATE WELFARE.

“Oh but wait, who went on vacation for five weeks instead of doing something about fixing the energy problem or making a better deal for the American consumer?”, bush, oh wait he went to China to slap the girls vollyball players on the b…, then to the ranch?

I explained in great detail who screwed up GM and Ford, certainly not the Union, but INCOMPETENCE, like this administration and the GOP Congress we had for 12 years, who did zip on energy until this summer when they wanted to play politics.

Maybe it’s not a comprehension problem at all, you’re just a good lemming following your orders.

Good boy, now you can have a cookie.

By Micahel H. Smith

August 28, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

You get informed, Duh! You are full of it and your explanations if you call them that are crap. That goes double for your screw-up scumbag Unions

Now sit and spin on, boy .

By Bruce Wilcox

August 28, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this

You make no sense, you boo-hoo over jobs going over seas, yet you campaign against organized labor here?

In every free trade agreement we make the country has to sign on the dotted line that they will allow workers to organize. In this country you fight against organized labor?

Make up your mind, I realize that you’re a free trader, but are we going to start enforcing these agreements or let the United States bend to will of the blooted free traders and turn this country into sweat shops too?

The very idea of Free Trade agreements was to allow other countries to reach the level that we have, yet because of lemmings like you, we are lowering ourselves to sweat shop levels they have now.

Good-by middle class and have a very Happy LABOR DAY!

By Michael H. Smith

August 28, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Who makes no sense?

You make no sense. I’ve pointed out continually union support for illegal alien workers, which is effectively the same thing as supporting sending jobs out of this country and you defend that action being taken against the American workers by unions? Of course you will never admit to that no matter the mountain of facts stacked against you.

In NAFTA there is an immigration package, now tell me what has immigration to do with trade? And you pretend to be an advocate for civil and human rights? The union seems to think trading human flesh for profit, to lower wages and displace workers is a good thing, so long as the people being traded are potential dues paying members?

I am a Free Trader? Nah, you and your unions are the “free human flesh trader”.

I am a “Fair Trade” advocate and support vacating every trade agreement that does not stand on the principles of solely trading products produced within a sovereign nation. Any trade agreement that allows for the trade of humans and their labor as a commodity is a reenactment of human bondage - Slavery. I fervidly stand against any efforts of governments, corporations or unions to manipulate the supply of labor through any means of immigrations that renders the free market null and void. No trade agreement should ever include immigration.

I advocate and support removing taxes on corporations that keep jobs in this country that employs U.S. Citizen labor; and punishing corporations that locate offshore outside of this country with taxes and fees.

I definitely support the principles President Reagan laid down with Toyota in requiring them to produce cars in this country using American labor in order to be able to sell in this market.

Any trade agreement must mirror in “market openness”, the trading actions taken by any of the parties in agreement . Otherwise, the treaty should be declared null and void.

It is very plain to see I am no Free Trader in any terms of globalization - i. e. exporting jobs and importing labor.

Unions have priced their labor out of reach and beyond what the market can bear in far too many cases. Unions have actually cost American workers their jobs. You union lemmings will just keep right on following blindly marching to the unemployment line while non-union American workers whose labor is priced competitively within what the market can bear continue to make cars, receive paychecks, benefits and remain employed.

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September 8, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

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