Home > Norcross.Talk > Archives > 2008 > May > 06 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USGood schools start with good communities
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A few weeks ago, I wrote about the Supreme Court’s decision that Tax Allocation Districts (TADs) may not use school funds for redevelopment and revitalization.
That ridiculous decision led state legislators to two unnecessary pieces of legislation allowing TADs’ use of school funds, including Senate Resolution 996, which authorizes the use of school funds for community redevelopment and revitalization at the state level; and House Bill 1208, which is specific to Gwinnett County TADs.
The Gwinnett bill could be dead if voters don’t approve the statewide bill in November. Gwinnett voters will have to pass both bills.
First, let’s clear up one misconception about TADs’ use of such funds using the OFS site at Jimmy Carter Boulevard and I-85 as an example.
Only the property tax dollars that would normally be paid from the OFS site would be used for redevelopment and revitalization.
Not the property tax dollars from your home.
Not the property tax dollars from the shopping mall down at the corner.
ONLY the tax dollars from the site of the TAD district are funneled back into that site for redevelopment and are only good for a maximum of six years.
Is that clear? Feel better now? Good. I was kinda hoping so. There you go, take a deep breath. Relax. It will all be OK.
Now I am going to give you and the rest of Jawjuh an argument for why you should vote to approve the Senate Resolution and House bills.
A good friend of mine pointed out a Gwinnett county schools sign that reads: “Good Schools Build Better Communities.”
Incorrect. Yes, good schools draw good people who care about where they live, but point out one community in despair with good schools.
School performance is a direct reflection of the communities they serve. Schools will not improve unless an area improves FIRST.
If the community they serve does not get better can we really expect the schools to?
Both the senate resolution and the house bill up for our vote this November were unnecessary because using school funds for TAD use DOES help schools.
It would seem the better short term initial investment - for the schools - would be to boost the surrounding community first.
Revitalize a blighted community and schools will immediately show signs of improvement. It’s a win- win situation for all invested.
Which side are you on?
Permalink | Comments (71) | Post your comment | Categories: Woody Bass
Comments
By Katie
May 6, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Hmmm. I’d say, crappy neighborhood, crappy school. Also, in most crappy neighborhoods you will find crappy parents and often times crappy kids (please notice that I said often times and not always). Afluent areas have better schools because everyone is more involved in them. I don’t think this topic is rocket science.
By Rep. Hugh Floyd
May 6, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Woody, thanks for writing this article about TAD’s (Tax Allocation Districts). There has been a lot of confusion and misunderstanding of how a TAD works. You’ve explained it well.
Don’t think that because you live in Hamilton Mill, Grayson or other parts of Gwinnett that this doesn’t pertain to you. It does, we must do what’s necessary to keep our county strong. Transportation problems and high prices for oil are dictating the need to utilize wise growth and to make better choices.
VOTE YES - For Tax Allocation Districts. Good schools start with good communities
By Bruce Wilcox
May 6, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
“ONLY the tax dollars from the site of the TAD district are funneled back into that site for redevelopment and are only good for a maximum of six years.”
As long as they don’t go for a stadium I’m all for it, but who knows in this county what goes on behind closed doors? Still, I’ll vote ‘YES’.
By Crystal
May 7, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
If
…”ONLY the tax dollars from the site of the TAD district are funneled back into that site for redevelopment and are only good for a maximum of six yearsonly”…
then why were some current projects that were using TAD money cancelled or cut back after the Supreme Court ruling?
If they can only use the property tax money that is currently being generated on a redeveloped site, how did they plan on developing an entire forest into the OPUS project in Suwanee?
By Michael H. Smith
May 7, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I’m voting “NO”. My side and reasons have not changed. Nevertheless, nice try Woodrow.
Oh and another thing, I’ll vote NO on MARTA too.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
Doesn’t seem like many folks are interested in TAD’s? Let me tell you from someone that lives in the Village, this is exactly what we need.
Look it will be my taxes, not yours that will be effected, LET US help ourselves. We can’t allow certain sections of the county to go down the tubes.
I blame ALL the commissioners for ignoring the problem for so long. When all the commissioners, on the taxpayers dime, went on vacation to the mount and came down with the only idea offered two years ago was a ballpark it’s laughable.
Now Mr. Smith, I see we already disagree on the subject and no one else seems to care, so let us debate it.
A TAD to me at is no more than HOA dues, please correct me if I’m wrong ( which I am sure you will do), so what is the difference?
You live in Lawrenceville, it WILL NOT effect your taxes. Are you worried that someday that they may ask you for a few buck’s extra (no insult intented), to do the same in your area?
By Katie
May 8, 2008 5:51 AM | Link to this
I’m not sure paying extra taxes will help. 85% of my taxes already goes to schools. There are two people in my household. My neighbors have about 8 people in their house and probably pay similar amounts in taxes. They have 5 kids. The only way for it to be helpful would be if they were to pay more in taxes to justify the amount of children they have that need education.
By Michael H. Smith
May 8, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Not many folks will be interested in seeing tax money due the schools or the school system they have supported - year afta year afta year, SPLOST afta SPLOST afta SPLOST (no need to go on with the aftas’ borrowed from Teddy Kennedy, again, again and uh… Again! ) - get slighted one red copper; especially in the interests of padding, Mr. Greedy Developer’s, mega-bucks project.
If a development, say like this Village a.k.a. Save mi Barrio, is all that and “uno bag of nachos”, Mr. Wilcox, if like most anything else in the free market of capitalism, then it should be able to make a dollar on its own merits without any tax subsidies and bring in a flock of investors just dying to get in on a piece of the action.
Needless to say, TAD is a shell game that will affect the very thing my tax dollars and the tax dollars of other homeowners go to pay for, namely the funding of a school system voters have consistently given (including the shirt off our backs, in my opinion) everything that system ever asked for on the ballot (excluding one bond issue).
In case anyone has a problem following this, leave us not digress what is at issue nor fail to speak clearly to “cause and affect”. I think most everyone knows how we come by deficits in this country, a little TAD here, a little TAD there, a little TAD from everywhere. Just a little TAD will do it, that’s all it takes to create an insatiable national debt.
From words of the late Senator Everitt Dirkson: Here a TAD, there a TAD, and pretty soon, you’re talking about a whole lot of REAL MONEY!
REAL MONEY that will be taken out of the school tax digest. I hope the smart people who voted this scheme, this shell game down to defeat last time around will continue to use their God given horse-sense and vote this TAD down, again, again and uh… AGAIN!
So this TAD will not affect my taxes in Lawrenceville, aye?
That is pure Dunkey Dung piled on top of Elli-Phunt organic fertilizer.
By Bill Allen
May 8, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Kind of a loaded question, if you ask me.
Why continue to dump more money into an educational system that strives for mediocrity? Check it out. The whole reason public education was started over 100 years ago was because people couldn’t read. So, let’s get them to read.
An admirable goal. The problem is, the boards of education (often noneducators) have since moved forward, and found a way to live down to expectations (gotta like Jawjuh)and use money to pursue their own agendas while still making sure that kids can read. Don’t recognize or attempt to nurture scholastic aptitude. No flavor here. Just mass produce them, make them voters. Tame, civil, obedient, uninformed and uninterested. Bland.
So now, they want Tax Allocation Districts (TADs) to use school funds for redevelopment and revitalization of areas that were poorly developed and vitalized to begin with. In other words, we the government recognize that we didn’t pay attention to you before, so the place went to pot. No matter, we’ll take money from education systems that we really don’t care about improving to begin with in order to fix something that we never should have let break in the first place. And, in the meantime, we’ll line the pockets of developers and interests that have a far better chance of becoming elected officials than the ones that we are trying to teach how not to be movers and shakers.
I guess my point is that reallocating school funds from TADs doesn’t really get at the heart of the issue(s). 1). How do we use our money more efficiently so that we get the value of our educational dollar? 2). If we have school money to spare, why not give it back to the people? 3). What guarantees do we have that revitalizing and redeveloping the districts is more than a glorified plaster-and-paint job?
It’s a complex issue, methinks.
By Michael H. Smith
May 8, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
We won’t disagree, Mr. Allen, that we got mismanagement all over the place, from top to bottom and then some; but more mismanagement, more misappropriation is certainly not the answer. (Here a TAD, there a TAD, everywhere a TAD, TAD. Kind of like Old McDonald’s farm, oink, oink!)
Holding people and the politicians accountable is definitely a step in the right direction and all that takes in most cases is simply saying, NO!
No, you can’t use school money to build your barn bigger.
No, you can’t use school money to clean-up a problem the Federal Government allowed, if not out-right encouraged, through uncontrolled and illegal immigration, applauded by local business who told our locally elected, DON’T ROCK THE CHEAP LABOR BOAT!
No, you can’t erase years of willful neglect by sacrificing the fatted calf of education upon the developer’s alter to atone for thy social sins, O’ Politicos.
By Bill Allen
May 8, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
I grew up in the area. So I know, Woodrow, where you’re coming from. I know, Mr. Wilcox, where you’re coming from. I remember when Green’s Corner was a destination. I would love to see the area come back.
And I agree, Mr. Smith, that “you can’t erase years of willful neglect by sacrificing the fatted calf of education upon the developer’s alter to atone for thy social sins.” I have to wonder if it is, in fact, neglect. It makes more sense to me to think that the neighborhood is more like a forest planted by developers. 20 years ago, it wasn’t meant to last. It was meant to be harvested, cut up and scorched so that it could be reseeded. Rebuilt.
I hate to be so pessimistic. I don’t want to be. I just remember when one could drive down Jimmy Carter, down Pleasant Hill, down 120 and 78. I have a very hard time accepting the fact that no one in government couldn’t see this coming. I saw it coming when I was 16. If they didn’t - well, there’s Jawjuh education for you. If they did, then voting “yes” or “no” is an answer to the wrong question.
By Tax Payer
May 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
If governments or public schools are operating at a surplus, then that’s a CRIME. I want to see our governments - both national and local- always operating WITHOUT a profit.
Governments are NOT meant to make money. They are meant to WORK FOR THE PEOPLE. I will never trust a government (or public school official) who says they have an operating surplus. Because if they do - then they are either charging us too much and not applying the money correctly!!!!
Georgia will never get above #41 in the nation till they learn to operate by those rules. And goodness knows the City of Atlanta needs to learn those rules!
By Tax Payer
May 8, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Clarification to my previous statement:
Georgia will never get above #41 (in school rankings) in the nation till they learn to operate by those rules.
By Cindy
May 8, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Who has the surplus? And what is it attributed to? More info please…
By Bruce Wilcox
May 8, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Mr. Allen covered a lot of what I wanted to say and covered it well Mr. Smith, when the commissioners-in-chief fail you where do you turn?
It seems that in this county a TAD here and a TAD there is not such a bad idea, at least the Braves wouldn’t be deciding on how and where we spend our money.
The only other option for the area is for the Village to become a city of it’s own, which the more I think about it doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
By Michael H. Smith
May 9, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this
It’s bad idea in my opinion, Mr. Wilcox. I will be voting no, unquestionably, Mr. Allen.
By Katie
May 9, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this
I see how this will work. Gwinnett will say our homes have increased in value, although they really haven’t, just so they can get more tax dollars from home owners. Tricky but typical government b*sh*t. Yeah, schools getting 1.9 billion won’t cause any tax increases. If people actually believe that then I’ve lost all hope in man kind.
By Cindy
May 9, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
That’s quite the budget, huh? $1.89 B!!! my jaw dropped…
By Jimmy Orr
May 9, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Woody’s comments fail to take into account three things. #1. Why are we subsidizing developers? Whatever happened to the free enterprise system? If a redevelopment project is financially feasible, why don’t developers incur any bond debt and stand good for same? #2. Woody fails to mention that the taxpayers could become guarantors for any outstanding bond debt. Why? If the tax revenues from within a TAD fail to materialize, the taxpayers could be left holding the bag? #3. The only parties that would benefit from passage of the two TAD issues which Woody speaks of are the developers. They will laugh all the way to the bank. Selah
By STEVE RAMEY
May 9, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
IT IS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO VOTE YES ON TAD’S. TAD’S ARE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS. THIS TIME THE REDISTRIBUTION WILL WILL GO TO THE NEEDY BUT INTO THE GREEDY DEVELOPERS POCKETS. TAD’S ARE A NEW ANGLE TO WRANGLE YOUR DOLLARS FROM YOU TO PROVIDE CAPITAL FOR THE DEVELOPERS SO THAT THEY DON’T HAVE TO PUT UP THEIR OWN MONEY AND HAVE LITTLE OR NO RISKS. DUE TO THE LOW INCOME, LOW REVENUE GENERATING RESIDENTS THAT LIVE THERE THE PROPERTY VALUES HAVE DECLINED. IT SHOULD BE A HAVEN FOR A SMART INVESTOR TO BUY THE LAND AT A LOWER PRICE, DEVELOP IT AND MAKE A LARGER PROFIT. IT IS SIMPLE ECONOMICS AND BUSINESS 101. LET FREE ENTERPRIZE RISE TO THE OCCASION. THAT IS WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT. LEAVE THE SCHOOL TAX ALONE AND VOTE NO ON TAD’S.
STEVE RAMEY
By Bruce Wilcox
May 9, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
A big point Mr. Orr and Mr. Ramey are missing is that the commissioners did it with the stadium. There was no public input and the Braves told the commissioners where Bert’s ‘Field Of Dreams’ will be built.
Least with a TAD, which covers a smaller area, it will benefit the TAD area, not someones ego or a corporate master.
By Michael H. Smith
May 9, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Didn’t you know the old reassessment game was in play after that blog on, “your house is really worth more”?
I hope someone with a couple of extra nickels and the itch to challenge government will make the county prove property values have increased amidst all the foreclosures and illegal boarding houses in this county.
Thanks to the person that took this TAD business to court and won. Now if the rest of us sensible people will just vote NO on this TAD bunk and NO to all the other non-sense being proposed by people we should vote out of office, that victory will be cast into “settled law” at the ballot box where opinions actually count.
No TAD, No MARTA.
By Adam
May 9, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
No, I don’t think giving an interest free loan to developers is in line with ‘free market” principals. If a developer wants to restore an area, taxpayers should not be giving them an interest free loan to do that. You can keep on rebuidling some of these areas over and over again, Woody, and keep pumping money into them, but it’s not the buildings that are the problem - it’s the people. Until you change their mindset, they will continue to destroy their surroundings.
So NO, I don’t plan on voting to allow the government to give dollars meant for the schools to rich developers. They can borrow their money just like we are forced to do and leave money meant for the schools - for the schools. Frankly, I am tired of my property taxes going up, up, up, under the banner that the schools need more money and having to pay an additional one, two, three cent sales tax for the schools. How many times are developers going to pump good money after bad by rebuidling the same ole areas over and over again? Let failing neighborhoods go under. Those who can afford to move, will move to a better place and leave those who destroy their environment to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
But it’s okay to build a private stadium for the Braves on the taxpayers dime?
“Let failing neighborhoods go under. Those who can afford to move, will move to a better place and leave those who destroy their environment to enjoy the fruits of their labor.”
Adam you can run, but you can’t hide, the problem spreads like a disease, sooner or later you too will enjoy the fruits of the commissioners.
By Cindy
May 9, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
I think Marta would be great for Gwinnett County. Don’t you see how advantageous it’s been for Clayton County? (Insert sarcasm here)
By Jimmy Orr
May 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
There are only two things that voters need to remember in the upcoming elections:
1. Vote NO on July 15th. to the TAD initiative on the ballot in unincorporated Gwinnett County. 2. Vote NO to the resolution on the ballot November 4th. to amend our state constitution which, if amended, would allow developers to carve out tax revenues generated within their TADS which should go toward public education and use said revenues to retire bond debt incurred by cities and counties on their behalf. This resolution will be on the ballot STATEWIDE. Therefore, encourage your kith and kin throughout Georgia to vote NO likewise.By Bruce Wilcox
May 11, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
With all due respect Mr. Orr, if the taxing district does not effect you, why should you care?
The only way it could effect you if an Atlantic Station type development arises on Jimmy Carter. Let’s see, less crime, more tax revenue, more developers to build up the area to what it once was. Remember folks, this isn’t NEW developments, just rebuilding or replacing whats there, besides they raped the area so long ago there is no more land left to develope.
btw…the idea has been used before, guess where Atlantic Station downtown.
The signs on the tanks greeting those coming into Gwinnett should read, “As long as I got mine, screw you”.
By Michael H. Smith
May 12, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
It most certainly WILL affect the school tax digest in funds collected. Therefore, it will affect everyone anywhere this county. Here a TAD, there a TAD and soon there will be a TAD everywhere.
Then what will happen to the school tax digest… Oops, sorry folks, we got a shortfall in meeting the school budget? Guess we’ll have to raise the millage rate to pay for all these developer TADs’?
No, screw this TAD BS, the politicians and developers that think the taxpayers are dumb enough to fall for this garbage in subsidizing what should be done totally through free enterprise investing and NOT FROM TAXES DUE THE SCHOOLS.
Clean up the crime, clean up the illegal immigration, get rid of the boarding houses and condemn property in the area if necessary. Then the quality people who left that area will return. You nailed it Adam, and the only ones running and hiding are the ones who refuse to face reality.
Quality people will not live next door to trashy sorriness or in Nuevo Tijuana!
By Bruce Wilcox
May 12, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Wow, calling all Latino’s trash now, legal or not. Then the Quality people will pack up and run if anyone not their kind moves into their neighborhHood. Must be a Southern thing running and Hoods.
By Michael H. Smith
May 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Nice try at distorting what was said, seems to be a Northern lying bigot’s thing but then again here is a real Southern about the actual things said to “WOW” over.
Were the shoe fits, wear it!
NO TAD. NO MARTA.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 12, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
I have invited you and many other big mouths, including a few commissioners to visit and show me where this “Nuevo Tijuana!”, is around me, so far they remain nothing more than big mouths playing on the fears of the uninformed.
By Michael H. Smith
May 12, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
BS I’ve pointed out many times things on JCB and Singleton Rd. and so have many others that speaks of “Nuevo Tijuana!” that you always dismiss or drag out that weak minded social crutch of race you rely on when losing an argument.
It has very little to do with what people look like. Only a lying bigot drags that kind of garbage up to defend the objectionable actions and inactions that are at the heart of the real issue.
Oh, BTW, congrats on that recent Supreme Court photo id voter victory. w00t!
NO TAD, NO MARTA.
By Cindy
May 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Michael and Bruce,
Aside from all that stuff above, how are two of my favorite guys doing today?
:) Cindy :)
By Norcross
May 12, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Bruce,
Should I be upset that I go to what used to be a very nice supermarket and am completely unable to be helped by the first 4 employees that I meet? They do not speak English and I do not speak Spanish. I always try and support companies that stay in neighborhoods, but as they no longer value my business why should I not travel 3 miles to a business that does value my business?
I think these are questions that need to be addressed.
By Michael H. Smith
May 12, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I’m doing lovely, thank you. How are you?
You’re right on the money Norcross. This is America and Americans intend for this country to remain America in traditional appearance and U.S. English speaking. All we demand and rightly deserve is that any immigrant conform to us, not the other way around. We never before had to push one to carry on a conversation in our national tongue of U.S. English and our number two has always been reserved for the bathroom!
I will continue to shop with and buy in stores that respect America and the American people.
As for our own folk, you people know better than trashing-up the place displaying poor conduct and breaking the law. No I don’t want to live around trashiness, people of poor character who are just down right sorry and those who don’t care spit about obeying the laws.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 12, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Not all the areas faults are caused by Latino’s, legal or illegal. How about the WASP landowner that turns a property into a tenement, the commissioner who promised to introduce an ordinance that limits tthe number of adults in a single home to 400 sq. ft., only to give us Bert’s “Field of Dreams instead, the contractor that hires below minium wage?
Norcross are they young people or older people? I have run into Indian’s, Latino’s and Asians, all young workers, I hardly run into a White kid working? Where I grew up, depending on which neighborhood you happen to visit, people spoke their native langauge and broken English, French, Polish, Italian…it never bothered me.
Mr. Smith you do not seem to have a clue the area that the Village covers, to compare the entire area to one intersection is kind of sad on your part.
You mean those same Supremes that appointed your Fearless Leader?
By Michael H. Smith
May 12, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Mr. Wilcox can’t read are likes to lie alot. Either way he lives in his own reality out of touch with the rest of us. I could go on to other places within the area to point out things but to someone who sadly refuses to see with eyes wide shut, it would make no difference.
Look at the comments opposed thus far to this TAD and about various things in the area.
Get ready for another victory, Mr. Wilcox.
w00t!
NO TAD, NO MARTA.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 12, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Well this is the only state where Fearless Leader still has a high approval rating and this county being a Republican stronghold, I expect it to remain in the 1950’s for awhile longer and vote it down.
The only lost is to the county and it’s people.
Play Ball!
By Jimmy Orr
May 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Hey Cindy & Michael, I am proud to know that you’ll will be going to the polls with me on July 15th. to vote AGAINST the TADS initiative. Make sure that your co-workers, friends, kinfolks, neighbors, etc. will do likewise. Please don’t forget that we’ll be back at the polls again on November 4th. to vote AGAINST the referendum to amend our state constitution. This referendum came from perhaps the most despicable legislation to ever come out of the General Assembly. The referendum is nothing more than a blatant attempt to circumvent a ruling by our Georgia Supreme Court which stated that tax revenues generated within TADS which should go toward public education cannot be “carved out” and used to pay off bond debt incurred by local governments within TADS. Once again, the November 4th. issue is STATEWIDE. Therefore, make sure your kith and kin throughout Georgia are informed. Bruce, doggone it, you should know by now that you will not get an elected official to come out and stand eyeball to eyeball with you on any matter. If it’s a property ordinance thing, contact the Quality Of Life (QOL) unit. These folks are sworn peace officers and can and will issue citations.
By Norcross
May 12, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Bruce,
Interestlying enough, I never mentioned that it bothered me, maybe you assumed that. I could not communitcate with the first 4 employees I came into contact with. They did NOT speak broken English. They spoke NO English. I respect broken English and am thrilled they are making an effort, their kids will do better and they will do better in life.
Do you feel it it in America’s best interest to have English remain as the language of Government and Trade? Do you feel it is in America’s best interest to have a language that from one border to the next is universally spoken?
Vote YES for TAD. YES for TAD. YES for TAD. The city of Norcross passed the TAD resolution last November.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 12, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Sure English will remain the language of Government and Trade. Remember the children who attend school learn and speak English, they take it home with them, it’s not an overnight thing, but I doubt there is anything to worry about.
Jimmy you’re right, I shouldn’t really expect a promise from a commissioner to be kept. Can’t call the QOL unit, tenements right now are within the law, all you need is 70 sq. ft. per person, average single family is 1800 sq. ft., do the math and you’ll see what I mean. Making it 400 sq.ft. per person you return to a single family home!
Play Ball!
By Michael H. Smith
May 13, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this
Feel even better Jimmy, I got about 20 more people going to the polls with us to stop developers from using school money to pad their development projects. You can plan on alot more before I’m finished.
Can’t wait to hear another victory lament from the other side.
BTW, I work with alot of naturalized former immigrants from Laos and their first generation U.S. Citizen children who all speak English fluently. It didn’t take them a long time or a third generation to learn and speak English. All the former Koreans I know including my niece and her children speak excellent English too. I don’t buy into this Spanish speaking non-sense and taking three generations to learn the language. In fact, a close friend from Guatemala (bi-lingual) once told me directly that the Mexicans that worked with us at the time, would never learn and speak English. Because they had no intentions of ever learning the language, period. Truth is I can speak more Spanish than those guys can speak in English. I agree Norcross, I can deal with broken English but an arrogant ignorance that refuses to learn or even try to speak the language of this country as a legal immigrant? I don’t think I should give that any respect, period.
Illegal aliens only get my disdain, I’ve long since lost any sympathy for them.
NO TAD, NO MARTA
By Patrick Malone
May 13, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
As predicted the proponents of the TAD referendum on the July 15 ballot have started their voter education. Unfortunately it appears, as indicated by Woody Bass’ column of May 6, that the education process will contain half-truths, misconceptions and erroneous information.
First, if the TAD referendum was limited to the OFS site in Norcross it would probably receive greater support. The reality is it authorizes our county commission to remove up to 10% of the tax digest and the 3 Community Improvement Districts in Gwinnett are salivating at that idea of using the TAD bonds. So forget the idea that it will be limited to the OFS site.
Secondly, it will not be limited to six years. These bonds issued are normally 25 - 30 year bonds. So you are just increasing the debt of your children, grandchildren or great grandchildren.
Third, it will not remove the existing taxes from any location. It will only dedicate any incremental tax revenue from the proposed increased evaluation of the redeveloped site to the repayment of the bonds. If that incremental tax revenue does not materialize, the best public policy minds at Georgia State University tell me the citizens of Gwinnett could be left holding the bag.
This is flawed legislation created by inept state legislators and, in spite of being rejected once, is being forced on us by Mrs. Greene, Mr. Nasuti, Mr Beaudreau, Mr Kennerly and Chairman Bannister.
Reasonable people can agree to disagree reasonably but we also need to agree to argue the facts.
I believe this referendum, as it is constructed, deserves a NO vote on July 15.
By Michael H. Smith
May 13, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Fact Mr. Malone is that TAD will take away school money from the tax digest. The rest is what I called it: A shell game.
…But the Georgia Supreme Court ruling declared that the Beltline TAD couldn’t include property taxes dedicated to schools, roughly half of the total. That ruling has put a halt on all TADs that already have been approved by voters, but where bonds have not been issued.
…Take Atlantic Station. In 1999, when the TAD was approved, the amount of property taxes being collected in the area was $325,000. The city, county and the school board still receive that base of taxes. But during the life of the TAD, the property tax increases go toward repaying bonds that have been issued to invest in community improvements.
….For Atlantic Station, $250 million in bonds have been issued. Labovitz anticipates that those bonds will be paid off within 10 years. At that point, the local governments will enjoy a windfall of revenue — about $40 million a year.
http://www.ajc.com/search/content/business/saporta/stories/2008/02/17/saporta_0218.html
Marvelous word anticipates.
Here a TAD, there a TAD and soon a TAD from everywhere.
NO TAD, NO MARTA
By Bruce Wilcox
May 13, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Only 49 other states have TADS, gee ain’t it great we all in a state smarter dem all the rest and yet some still wonder why people laugh at the South?
About passing the debt along, our National Debt is around $11 Trillon dollars right now, this is pocket change.
By Norcross
May 13, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
IT MAY TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM THE SCHOOL TAX DIGEST.
IF over 20 years or so the TAD fails to increase in value, but instead decreases in value because of the redevelopment, yes the deal is bad.
It locks in the TAX with increases to pay for bonds, IT CAN NOT DECREASE. In practice most of the tax base is decreasing anyways. So in the short term the schools may actually GAIN money.I wonder why the School Board has a say on each TAD….
http://aysps.gsu.edu/publications/TAD_compiled.pdf
I have also read more than the just Executive Summary and the risks vs reward seem acceptable to ME. I repect that they may not be to others.
By Norcross
May 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
http://www.gwinnettforum.com/issue/08.0226.htm#elliott
Interesting commentary about my above statement. Seems that OFS is an example of a falling tax digest. I have read your comments in re to this article Patrick. The City of Norcross passed these for a purpose. We believe that they will be helpful to our citizens. If you are worried about where the county might randomly “pick” a TAD, then VOTE out those people, and put someone in that will be more responsible in your view.
By Norcross
May 13, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Or of course do not vote for the county wide TAD.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 13, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
“Marvelous word anticipates”, yes, yes it is, every local, state and the federal government uses to set budgets on anticipated revenues. Every businesses uses it for it’s goals and anticipated profits, every broker on Wall Street uses it hoping he anticipated the trend.
Anticipates certainly is a Marvelous word and we see used quite often.
By jim d
May 13, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
My answer? NO
By Michael H. Smith
May 14, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this
Ha, Ha, Ha, another victory is just around the corner - laughing at that stock, YES, YES.
Still hanging with Gore and swinging with Chad. No anticipation there. Kind of like the deficits the taxpayers can always count on governments creating, when they say: Oops, we didn’t “anticipate” that!
Guess we’ll have to reassess property values, it looks like your house is really worth more than you thought.
Does this ever sound familiar: I voted against that old “greedy developer” before I voted for him.
Kind of like saying I don’t want my tax money used by local law enforcement to enforce immigration laws and then claim to have supported 287g all along - YES, YES, laughing at that stock too.
Marvelous flip-flop, simply marvelous.
Thanks Jim, somehow I knew were you would stand on this - politely speaking - TAD issue. I’m glad to say you are consistent. It should tell others who know you and the fact that you would fight hell by the acre with a squirt pistol for the schools and the kids that TAD is not something to give a yes vote.
By Jimmy Orr
May 14, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
Something’s wrong here! What is Chuck Warbington, Executive Director, Gwinnett Village Community Improvement District, doing sitting on the Board of the Gwinnett County Planning Commission? The same board that makes decisions on rezoning applications and other planning & development matters that come before them from Gwinnett County Planning & Development. These matters then go before the Board of Commissioners. Seems to be a conflict of interest to me. FYI, Warbington is District 3 Commissioner Mike Beaudreau’s appointee. Read “Readers Respond” in today’s (05/14/08) AJC Gwinnett News. The article was written by Warbington in which he “toots the flute” for TADS. Keep in mind that what started all this in the first place was Woody’s article about the TAD that would encompass the Gwinnett Village Community Improvement District. I have sent my e-mail to Commissioner Mike Beaudreau, who by the way is my district commssioner, calling for Warbinton to step down from the Gwinnett County Planning Commission. I recommend that you do the same.
By Michael H. Smith
May 14, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Well said, Jimmy.
To Board of Commissioners:
Mr. Warbington needs to step down. He should not be sitting on the Board of the Gwinnett County Planning Commission and heading a CID too.
By LT5000
May 14, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Michael,
Brucie doesn’t want Norcross to get any better. He can get a authentic Mexican “Chorizo” behind the Quik Trip on Singleton for $5.
And it’s nice to see him infiltrate other blogs as well with his “From what I’ve seen” anecdotal evidence that he substitutes for real facts.
What a ‘tard. Can we get a collection together and send him somewhere else?
LT5000
By Bruce Wilcox
May 15, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
What’s the matter LT, you get you butt handed to you over on Badie’s blog, so now you stalked me here?
I tell you LT, no offense, but the way you stalk me, I’m not that type of guy, just ask my wife.
By Cindy
May 16, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
On View From The Cop and also on Badie’s Blog, it says…Commenting is open from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. M-F
Now THAT’S the biggest bunch of crap I’ve seen in a long time. We should all refuse to comment if they’re going to govern us and prevent us from posting during non-work times. I don’t like this…I don’t like it one little bitty bit! Grrr!
I’m still willing to participate on this blog though…UNTIL they mess it up too.
By Cindy
May 17, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Woody are you on strike? ☺
By Michael H. Smith
May 18, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
I doubt Woodrow is on strike, Cindy. He’s just a little TADder :) (Shameful misspell and pun intended, sic)
However, Woodrow does have reason to feel reinvigorated this morning by the release of the latest report of crime declining within his beloved CID.
Gee, and it didn’t take a TAD (school money) or MARTA or a private police force to achieve this miraculous feat. Just the CID paying off-duty officers to patrol the area from 11:30 p.m. until 3:30 a.m. seven days a week.
Which, should point out the real need is the county hiring more police so off-duty police officers can spend more time with their families where they can rest, relax and possibly enjoy some life without the stress from a cops job, provided they have enough “force support” and are paid enough to not have to take-on after hours work? (Same said for quality of life enforcement)
Now, Woodrow, there is a point I’ve made previously that you questioned me about, where the county is delegating its’ responsibilities to this CID. I’d rather the county government do their job and use direct upfront methods - not shell games and gimmicks - in achieving it by telling we residents taxes will be needed to achieve the task at hand.
Yeah I know you don’t get re-elected by telling people you’ll have to raise taxes to give them what they want (actually demand) but I will tell any politician you will not get my vote by raising my taxes through the use of shell games and gimmicks either. Just use some darn ethics please and tell us the truth, even when we don’t want to hear it. It takes money for a government to operate and that means more taxation in one way, shape, form, or the other, if some service is not cut.
Nothing is free, my friends. In fact, nothing is cheap either. You have cheap now (cheap labor living 20 people in single family dwellings) are you happy?
By Cindy
May 18, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Well said Michael. We don’t need anybody telling us one thing and meaning another. We’re big boys and girls, we can handle the truth. It’s a liar that I despise, not someone who will make a difference and is straight up about what’s needed to make it happen.
By Michael H. Smith
May 18, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Well, Cindy, if we can’t handle the truth like grown up children, then we should stop complaining and crying like babies about our lying politicians doing the hokie-pokie with our money, our county and our country.
We have got exactly what we paid for, including all the deceptions of every lie we have asked them to tell us by believing in something for nothing and the ideas of cheap, cheaper, and the cheapest labor obtainable, even if that means illegal unauthorized foreign labor in concessions to commerce at any costs.
By Bruce Wilcox
May 18, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
The points are very well taken Mr. Smith, TADS and CID’s, should not be needed if the leaders of this county were honest. The county needs more police, better code enforcement, no wait, some serious building code changes, promised, but never came to pass. It will take an increase in taxes.
Instead we get Bert’s “Field of Dreams” with the county creeping into a deficit. Remember the saying all politics are local, it’s true, it just grows to the state and national level. The same ones elected here what to go up there, this is a stepping stone for most, but most of all an ego booster.
By Cindy
May 18, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
creeping, my a$$. they’re full throttle ahead.
By Cindy
May 18, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Woody you should go ahead and give us a new blog…before I go off on a tangent. I’m in a mood, man…head it off at the pass…
…ya’ll have been warned. Grrrr.
By Katie
May 19, 2008 5:53 AM | Link to this
I’m ready for a new topic as well.
By Jimmy Orr
May 19, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
I close my comments on this blog with these remarks. There are only two things the voters of unincorporated Gwinnett County need to remember on the July 15th. Primary ballot and the voters of Georgia statewide need to remember on November 4th. General Election ballot.
1. On July 15th.,the voters in unincorporated Gwinnett County need to vote NO to the TAX Alloctaion Districts initiative which will be on the ballot 2. On November 4th., the voters throughout Georgia statewide need to vote NO to the resolution to amend our State Constitution. This resolution came about courtesy of our State Legislators passing and Governor Sonny Perdue signing (05-15-2008) Senate Resolution 996. Said rresolution calls for our State Constitution to be amended so as to allow developers of TAX Allocation Districts redevelopment projects to use tax revenues generated within the TAX Allocation District which should go toward PUBLIC EDUCATION to be used insted to pay off bond debt incurred by cities and counties on behalf of their so called redevelopment projects.Do you see something morrally wrong here? Senate Resolution 996 is nothing more than a blatant attempt to circumvent a ruling by our State of Georgia Supreme court which has ruled, on the Atlanta Beltline projects, that tax revenues that should go toward PUBLIC EDUCATION cannot be used for any other purpose.
By Steve
May 20, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Woody Bass,
“That ridiculous decision” Link:Reference: Original Story as you call it is just a ridiculous opinion on your part because:
You see, the people of Gwinnett County don’t have a problem supporting our school system. What we have a problem with is asking for more money to support schools only to discover one of the reasons for the shortfall is that money earmarked for education is diverted, siphoned off if you will, away from schools to support a development to the tune of $2B (That’s Two Billion Dollars).
This was a very deceptive practice, if not a gross misuse and misappropriation of funds, on the part of our government officials and a total distortion of the truth. Try telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And your assertion that it doesn’t affect your personal property tax is both naïve and short sighted. You’re not going to take money away from our children’s futures for the sake of some redevelopment and revitalization effort, and I’m personally going to campaign against the Gwinnett County Commission’s requested July 15th Link: [Referendum Story] (http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/05/06/elect_0507.html) giving the county power to create tax allocation districts since it’s obvious we have a problem doing so in a fiscally responsible and forthright manner.
By Cindy
May 22, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
I like the way Badie lists out what days his blogs are published…lets me know what to expect.
Come on Woody…it’s been a while…
By Katie
May 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
I think it’s been about 3 weeks now. Woody, are you on vacation or something????
By Michael
May 26, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Bad Schools are the results of bad communities. In Gwinnett these schools actually get more money through Title I. So these parents need to look in the mirror to see the problems of those schools.
A Brookwood teacher gets paid no more than a teacher at Meadowcreek.
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