Home > Norcross.Talk > Archives > 2008 > April > 07 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWho pays for 287 (g)?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’ll just come right out and say it —287(g) is nothing more than an excuse for the federal government not to do it’s job.
While I applaud the county for taking an active part in the few options they have dealing with illegal immigration. Illegal immigration IS a federal issue. The fact that ICE provides such a program for local governments who take the bait just further enables the feds not to do their jobs by not securing the borders and not enforcing immigration policies already on the book.
Cha-ching! Drizzle-drizzle-drizzle. That would be your tax dollars going down the drain.
There are plenty of political obstacles and financial hoops Gwinnett has to jump through in order to even be accepted into the program, but there is one thing we should all understand very clearly… while it will certainly have some impact, 287(g) is NOT the answer to the county’s illegal immigration problem.
Sheriff Conway did manage (after being used as a political ping-pong ball in election year “I can do anything you can do better” antics) to leap one of the major hurdles on the path through the application process. Money.
The Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners approved the funding for the 18 additional officers Conway requested for Gwinnett to efficiently operate the program. Now the pressure rests solely on Sheriff Conway’s shoulders to make this happen.
Cha-ching! A million dollars for officers to process everyone through the program, vehicles and equipment per year.
Don’t think that 18 officers or the additional funds are necessary? I know… I know… Cobb County did it with officers already on the payroll. Allow me to do a little comparison for you of the two systems that makes the answer pretty self-explanatory:
Cobb County Gwinnett County
of arrests in 2007 36,500 39,000 of “foreign nationals” arrested in 2007 5,500 13,000Of those 13,000 arrested, up from 9,400 in 2006 by the way, some of them may have been arrested as many as six times. Another staggering number: 59.000, the number of “foreign nationals” arrested from 2000-2007 in Gwinnett. Keep in mind the majority of them are minor traffic violations.
The county still has to address another major hurdle — the 400 inmates currently sleeping on the floor— a mandate via the American Corrections Association, to enter the program.
Cha-ching! Approximately up to $6.6 million a year if the county is forced to house out all those inmates to other facilities. That amount could potentially increase to over $10 million a year by 2012.
Sheriff Conway has told me that the extensive application process is already underway and barring no further hurdles 287(g) can be in place as soon as October.
You asked for it. Get your check books ready.
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By Cindy
April 7, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Well you know what they say…dookie rolls downhill…and it’s currently resting on the doorstep of the sheriff, yes?
So what is he supposed to do?
Option 1 Ignore everyone who’s insisting that he does something proactive about the illegals, and possibly win the “Not MY job!” award. He could proudly display it beside the print out of the joke email showing the possum with yellow road stripes painted over him. If you’ve never seen that, it’s not one of those things in life you should miss…click here: http://just-for-entertainment-humour.blogspot.com/2007/11/winner-of-not-my-job-award.html
Option 2 Ignore Option 1
By BobG
April 7, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Two things, Woody:
First, immigration enforcement is not just a “federal issue” and (although you didn’t say it) the federal government does not have sole authority for immigration enforcement. Yes, the feds have dropped the ball but…
Unless the federal government adopts a zero tolerance for illegal aliens and can eliminate it (it won’t and can’t), local communities will be required to adopt laws and ordinances to address the specific and peculiar impacts of illegal immigration on them.
Second, however, 287(g) is a costly and marginally-effective approach to Gwinnett’s problem. A better solution would be to dry up the attraction, which is readily-available employment.
There is a better way that will actually save Gwinnett taxpayers money.
By Paul
April 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
I attended the BOC meeting wherein this took place - well worth the burning of a vacation day. Butch suggested that while Mr. Bannister’s fact finding missions elsewhere were nice, he might actually visit his own jail one day to find a clue. Butch also recommended using the telephone instead of the newspapers and Bannister campaign blurbs to communicate with. Rarely have I seen a politician jumping down into the hole and pulling the dirt in over himelf as well as Mr. Bannister did that day.
Anyway, I happen to know the deputy that runs the Mecklenberg NC jail that was looked at as a model 287(g) system. The program is in fact quite effective, and has had several positive and measurable side results. First, large numbers of illegals have been encouraged to live elsewhere. Second, the reduction in loads upon their hospital emergency room and school system alone have more than paid for the program. The federal government has failed us, but this does appear to be a very powerful stopgap.
By Michael H. Smith
April 7, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Woodrow, if money is taken from your left pocket or if money is taken from your right pocket, it is still your money that has been taken. The County, the State, or the wunerful(sic) Federal government, in real terms you are talking six, a half dozen or the other my friend.
We U.S. citizens do the paying for two corrupt governments in cahoots with business and their lobby and a bunch of lawbreaking narcissists (mostly Mexicans) who believe they have some right (in fact they consider it their birthright) over and above our laws and all other persons in this world who are waiting in a line that stretches from here to eternity for the “granted privilege” (which immigration actually is, period)to LEGALLY immigrate to this country.
By Cindy
April 7, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
In addition to lessening the load on jails, schools and hospitals, wouldn’t it totally rock if Wal Mart had to halt their current trend of opening up a new one on every major intersection to accomodate the constant influx of customers (new customers=new arrivals in town)…
By Bruce Wilcox
April 7, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Woody if our commissioners can build a stadium, what’s a few more bucks doing something that actually benefits the people? Besides everyone whines they want the illegal problem taken care of and you whine about the cost of the program. Look at it this way, to really address the problem, on the local, state or federal level is going to cost muchco $$$$, you pay at one level or the other.
Look at what Paul said about it’s effectiveness on the the local level, I’d rather have my tax dollars stay local to address the problem.
It’s nice that some take time to go to the BOC meetings, too bad they miss the real costly items that effect the taxpayer, like Bert’s Field of Freams, which are kept behind closed doors.
Clever subtle campaign ad there Paul for what’s her name, you know, the feel good ordinance lady and in on the stadium scam commissioner.
By Cindy
April 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
I was going to say something about the stadium too, but I didn’t want to steal your thunder Bruce.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 7, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
You’re not stealing my thunder, matter of fact I wish more people would express some outrage on the stadium and the lack of open government instead of remaining mute on it.
By LT5000
April 7, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Obviously Woody’s recent Cholesterol binge has clogged up the few remaining neurons of his brain.
I have a feeling he is being paid off in Taquitos and Gorditos by the local Illegals to print this bilge.
Here’s a DOJ ruling for you to read Woodrow.
Legal Opinion by the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel
In 2002, the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) issued an extremely important legal opinion explaining that state and local police officers have the inherent authority to arrest illegal aliens and transfer them to federal custody, regardless of whether the aliens have committed criminal or civil violations of immigration law.
By the way Woody, I would rather pay for Immigration to do their job than watch my tax dollars get sucked up providing WIC and free healthcare to Illegals.
Viva Los Estado Unidos.
LT5000
By Cindy
April 7, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
I don’t think I’m equipped with one of those mute buttons. haha. But I knew that when you showed up and read this, you’d mention the stadium, so I wanted to wait until you did it.
I think Gwinnett County should take care of our needs first. It’s like here at work…the vending machines…I pretty much refuse to spend more than one dollar a day in the machines. I can get two deer park waters for one dollar. Pretty simple and straight forward, yes? Well sometimes when I’m feeling snackie, Jonathan will say I can get just one water and a snack. But see, I know me well enough to know that I need 3 bottles of water a day, and I only bring one from home…so duh…I need those two from the machine. It’s all about taking care of my wants and needs. Now I know that if I truly wanted the snack, I could just start bringing TWO bottles with me from home, right? AHHH…wrong. My butt doesn’t need the snack either. So see, I as a grown up woman, realize that sometimes my wants exceed my needs…but a responsible person meets their needs before their wants.
It’s like that with the county. If we need to take action against illegals and take back our county…will having a shortfall in the budget…because of stadium construction…do anything to help us?
The sheriff needs 3 bottles of water to meet our needs…not two waters and oreos.
By Cindy
April 7, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
LT5000, Don’t forget food stamps or whatever they’re calling them now. Carroll County DFACS has gone to store parking lots soliciting illegals to sign up, to meet guidelines set forth based on their statistics. No joke.
By One Man's View
April 7, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Law enforcement is not optional usually. Illegals are a huge problem for us all. Have you ever had a head-on collision with someone without a license and no ability to drive. Well speak to someone who has before giving sleight to dealing with illegals. I know, I know - native sons can do the same. At least rednecks generally know what side of road to drive on.
Actually illegals are a problem now because of ignoring laws for years. Speak up now at this time Sen Saxby Chambliss for your squashing of enforcement years ago. I see, you have forgotten about that.
I’m pretty sure that GC can spare a couple of mil to send some bad guys back to Mexico.
By woodys mom
April 7, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
im for any amount of money it takes to arrest and deport the illegals.. one way or another it comes out of our pocket.. so if we spend the money to send them back.. and not spend it to feed, give medical care education etc. our crime will go down are jails population will go down.
so which in the long run do you think is going to cost us more??? after awhile they will get the message that america isnt going to put up with or pay for them anymore.
send em home.. no free ride here..
By BobG
April 7, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
According to Sheriff Conway, illegal aliens detained under 287(g) could be processed and on their way back to from whence they snuck within three or four days of the notice to ICE that the alien is ready to be picked up.
That’s great— the fewer days that the alien spends in our jail, the lower the cost to the taxpayer. But the program’s efficiency at deporting aliens may actually work against its ultimate effectiveness.
Think about it. Many illegal aliens are not here by themselves. They have family in Gwinnett; children in our schools; a job and access to public services. In other words, plenty of incentive to steal back into the country if they are deported.
So they are arrested for a minor traffic offense and processed under 287(g). If they can post bond (by paying the fine, approximately $300), they are detained by ICE. If they cannot make bail, the county will release to ICE anyway… after all, what’s $300 when the alien can be sent packing in less than a week.
I don’t know how long it takes for ICE to dump the deportee south of the Rio Grande after pickup, but let’s say that it’s less than a week as well. It is reasonable to conclude that the deportee could be back in Gwinnett in less than a month.
A brief vacation to the homeland is a small price to pay… for the illegal alien. For the taxpayers of Gwinnett, it’s wasted money.
By Justin
April 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
Bob, don’t forget that when he comes back into the country after being deported or self deporting under ICE regs he will be committing a felony. First time is a civil offense, 2nd is a criminal offense upon which they can be sentenced to Fed prison on just being found in the country.
By Laura
April 8, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
I would rather pay for 287(g) than to have to shell out backdoor money for the stadium. At least I am knowingly being fleeced rather than having it done behind my back, as it were.
By Roska
April 8, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
To BobG:
I’ve followed your rantings for some while and find it curious that:
To Bruce:
Get out from behind the computer and go live your life. You’ll be happier and your attitude will actually start to resemble that of a functional human being. Really, how much hate can one person spew?
To the illegals:
Anything that can be done to send you home I support even if I have to pay some money to do so. At least if Gwinnett does 287G the illegals may setup shop in another county.
By Cindy
April 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
I would rather pay for 287(g) too, since it’s proactive for lowering our county’s expenses.
Less welfare recipients, less ladder trucks and vans wearing out our streets, auto insurance skyrocketing because of Gwinnett’s population growing by leaps and bounds…with unlicensed/uninsured motorists, less nails in the carwash bays to flatten my tires, easier access to the QuikTrip, and maybe just maybe less supermarcado’s too.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 8, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Roska, man if you have that much time on your hands to log my comments, I really wouldn’t be talking to anyone about getting a life.
Hate Roska, hardly, just Truth, Justice and the American Way.
I retired Roska and function just fine, what I do with my time is not your concern, is it dude?
Let’s see what you added to the comments, two insults and some drool, not bad my man, don’t forget to log me out.
By Stew
April 8, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
Raise my taxes as much as you want, but please get the illegal immigrants out of Gwinnett county and the state of Georgia. Thank you.
By Phil
April 9, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
The county does need 287(g). Charles Bannister has been calling for this since 2007 and Lorraine Green opposed it. She opposed it as recently as the Febuary 2008 GOP breakfast - where several people gave her a tounge lashing for her opposition. Now she refused to go forward unless we give more deputies than needed to fund the program - costing the taxpayers money.
Charles went to Mecklenburg to try and find an efficient way. Shame on him for thinking outside the county for efficient ways to service the county!
By Cindy
April 9, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
It’s always something huh Phil? They just won’t act right will they? I wish someone would give me a tounge lashing.
By haha
April 9, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
haha nice Cindy. I am sure there are plenty of bored people willing to do just that.
By Katie
April 9, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
In MHO, I think that the children of illegal citizens should be considered illegal as well. If I ever get a chance to vote on that I definately will.
When hispanics come here illegally, what’s the first thing they do? they have breed—oops, I mean have kids, which ties them to our country. If we booted them and their children out there may be less of an incentive.
By Michael H. Smith
April 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
How long has 287g been in effect, since about 1996? Calling for 287g since 2007, wow, now that sure is a long time to advocate for something, I’m truly impressed.
Speaking of time, how long has Sheriff Butchie been crying about under staffing at the county jail? For alot longer period of time than his new found enthusiasm to pursue 287g has existed.
Wonder how much taxpayer money would have been saved had the county began participating in 287g a decade ago? Or, for that matter even four years ago?
Oh, just out of curiosity, how long did Chairman Bannister serve as a state Rep. and how many pieces of legislation did he personally bring to fore targeting illegal immigration?
Did he spearhead a push for the State Patrol participating in 287g?
Sorry Charlie, you are no Senator Chip Rogers.
By Cindy
April 9, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Michael, Whew…I was SOOO relieved when I realized your questions were all rheatorical. When I began reading your comments, I was scared there would be a test to follow. :)
By Michael H. Smith
April 9, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Katie, I know your comment was well intended but even legal immigrants are not citizens of this country. I wish we could amend clause one of the 14th amendment, now that the issue of slavery has forevermore been settle, to stop illegal aliens from essentially stealing U.S. citizenship by giving birth to their children in this country. Birthright citizenship should be inherited not simply given to anyone born on the sovereign soil of the United States of America.
By Katie
April 9, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Wow, I didn’t see that one coming. Obviously Native Americans are true citizens. I will try to be more exact in my word choice in the future. :)
By Mark
April 9, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Americans should be allowed to shoot an illegal on sight. Problem solved.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith, you said what if the program was put in ten years ago, good point, the great influx of illegals didn’t begin until after 2000. Who was Chairman back then? Who was Sheriff back then? What party controled, or should I say, how many years has the same party controled the county and has done nothing?
The feel-good ordinace lady and in on the stadium scam commissioner really needs a new campign manager.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 9, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
A question Mr. Smith, when Butch ran for re-election, do you know if he was fully staffed? Has Butch ever been fully staffed? If not, why run for re-election knowing you’ll be understaffed and unable to do your job?
By Cindy
April 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
as opposed to…?
By Justin
April 9, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
Bruce, ever known someone committed to improving a community? I mean someone that is willing to actually do something, not just get on a blog and complain about everyone and everything.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 9, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Sure Justin, come on over, as I invited many others, including commissioners, and I’ll be more than happy to show you.
Someone else else hangs onto my every word (see above), like you, he even knows when I been bad or good for havens sake.
It really doesn’t take me that long to check in during the day between chores and I don’t have to spend an hour coming up with a reply.
But I thank you for your interest.
By Michael H. Smith
April 10, 2008 2:55 AM | Link to this
As to true citizens Katie the 14th amendment makes that point very clear, either you can be a citizen by birth or you can naturalize to citizenship but simply being inside this country does not make anyone a citizen.
Now, on to Mr. Wilcox.
I’ve made it very clear who was Sheriff ten years ago (were you sleeping?). That was none other than Butchie. In fact as pointed out previously he has been Sheriff of this county for about as long 287g has been in effect (guess you missed that too?). Which, is the very reason, along with a few other things that gives me good reason to say Butchie is rather disingenuous in his new found affinity to pursue actually doing something so radical as to enforce the law against illegal aliens when it is and has been within his power to do so.
As to the commissioner, that would have been Wayne Hill, I do believe. But as I’ve also pointed out correctly, Bannister has been around for years as a state Rep. and now all the sudden like he says its time we do something about this problem. Well gee, Charles, knock over with a feather. Did you bump your noggin or did a lightening bolt strike you? We citizens have been screaming to the top of our lungs for years about this illegal alien issue and you are very late in jumping on the bandwagon, especially concurrent to an election. Surely there is no political motive involved? Naaaaaaaaaaah, not a one.
However, Mr. Wilcox, the Democrats are far worse in doing nothing about the illegal alien problem, they intend to violate the very bedrock principles of U.S. law by rewarding these illegal alien criminals with the very prize they sought in breaking the law. Which is the right to remain in this country after having broken the law, via amnesty. Worse, they intend to create a special separate but UNEQUAL pathway to citizenship.
Seems like the Democrats should review the equal justice clause of the 14th amendment. Or, let me and every other U.S. citizen choose the laws we want to break to get that proverbial “beto lipe” (sic) in this country.
By the way, can I bill Ma-hee-co (sic) back charges for my healthcare, schooling for my children, a little grocery money in lieu of EBT or food stamps? Guess not.
Then again, if I broke into (invaded) Ma-hee-co (sic) and worked under the table they would charge me with a felony, on the first illegal residency offense living in the shadows of broad daylight.
Oh such a good, good, neighbor next door to the south we have. Perhaps we should follow such a compassionate example, set by these compassionate people of a good heart who just want to feed their family at someone else’s expense.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Now, now Mr. Smith, no sense in venting your anger at me because your party has failed you on every level.
The last big push for a change or a new amendement was by the Right-wingers who needed one to describe marriage?
Insanity, doing (electing), the same thing (party,) over and over again and expecting a different result.
You never did or never have given a straight answer on how many years the party in power now has ruled this county?
By Bruce Wilcox
April 10, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
“Did he spearhead a push for the State Patrol participating in 287g?”…where is the state jail?
The Patrol books them into county jails, are you suggesting a state take over of our county jails?
By Vince
April 10, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Woody needs to gain a full understanding. He talks about inmates sleeping on the floor and the cost of farming them out to other counties. Perhaps he has failed to notice that there is a nice, new, mostly unused jail tower that is NOT in use due to lack of funding and manpower to properly staff the facility.
In another article in the AJC, Butch Conway stated that there were over 12,000 foreign nationals processed through the Gwinnett County Jail last year. I wonder how many of those were illegal aliens? He didn’t know since they weren’t verifying the immigration status and had no way of knowing.
There are thousands and thousands of illegal aliens in this county, state and country. They cost each and every one of us huge amounts of dollars in the form of social services, education, higher insurance rates due to uninsured drivers, lost tax revenue from the very ones who cost us MORE taxes not paying ANY taxes, and various other expenses brought on by their abuse of our system.
I have absolutely NOTHING against LEGAL immigrants. In fact, my wife is a legal immigrant from Brazil. She works, pays taxes, obeys the law, and gets p** off by the way the illegals are taking advantage of our system.
If we can deport a couple of thousand illegal immigrants a year, I think it is well worth the cost to the taxpayers to fund 18 additional deputies.
As far as our county commission goes, it’s amazing that something like illegal immigrants, and the small amount to fund 18 deputies, seems like such a huge deal when they will happily spend MILLIONS to build a new stadium in Gwinnett that we don’t need and that will only worsen existing traffic problems in the area of Mall of Georgia.
People, let’s get our priorities straight and decide what’s important to us. Allow the law enforcement agencies to take action to put a stop to the illegal actions of the illegal aliens. Quit spending on stupid stuff that we don’t need and that will only be a huge drain on the county’s budget.
By Vince
April 10, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Woody needs to gain a full understanding. He talks about inmates sleeping on the floor and the cost of farming them out to other counties. Perhaps he has failed to notice that there is a nice, new, mostly unused jail tower that is NOT in use due to lack of funding and manpower to properly staff the facility.
In another article in the AJC, Butch Conway stated that there were over 12,000 foreign nationals processed through the Gwinnett County Jail last year. I wonder how many of those were illegal aliens? He didn’t know since they weren’t verifying the immigration status and had no way of knowing.
There are thousands and thousands of illegal aliens in this county, state and country. They cost each and every one of us huge amounts of dollars in the form of social services, education, higher insurance rates due to uninsured drivers, lost tax revenue from the very ones who cost us MORE taxes not paying ANY taxes, and various other expenses brought on by their abuse of our system.
I have absolutely NOTHING against LEGAL immigrants. In fact, my wife is a legal immigrant from Brazil. She works, pays taxes, obeys the law, and gets p** off by the way the illegals are taking advantage of our system.
If we can deport a couple of thousand illegal immigrants a year, I think it is well worth the cost to the taxpayers to fund 18 additional deputies.
As far as our county commission goes, it’s amazing that something like illegal immigrants, and the small amount to fund 18 deputies, seems like such a huge deal when they will happily spend MILLIONS to build a new stadium in Gwinnett that we don’t need and that will only worsen existing traffic problems in the area of Mall of Georgia.
People, let’s get our priorities straight and decide what’s important to us. Allow the law enforcement agencies to take action to put a stop to the illegal actions of the illegal aliens. Quit spending on stupid stuff that we don’t need and that will only be a huge drain on the county’s budget.
By Justin
April 10, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Michael, you need only do a little research to see why butchie hasn’t implemented 287g before now. I think it was 2001 or 02 that he was sueing the commission for more funding and having to house out hundreds of inmates. I understand the Criminal Alien Program came to the Gwinnett jail in 1997, funding for 287g wasn’t made available until 2003, I think our jail was in dire straigts at that period in time. Do some homework.
By Cindy
April 11, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Homework?
I knew there was gonna be a test…I just knew it.
By Posse roundup
April 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Why doesn’t a posse round them all up and get rid of them? There’s enough people complaining here to at least nab a few dozen. Do you really think that by complaining on a blog something will change? Do you really think our government is going to do something about it?? Geez, if you want something done you have to do it yourself. Your mother should have taught you that.
So, where should we all meet?
By Cindy
April 11, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Posse, heck no i don’t think complaining on a blog is gonna change anything about the illegals, it will however entertain me and keep my social skills all sharpened up and stuff.
I think we’re supposed to meet at Bruce’s house. Bruce, will there be snacks? If not, Posse, you bring them…I like Fritos, beef jerky, cookies, celery, bananas…all kinds of stuff, but don’t forget the taquitos…we’ll need bait.
p.s. I wasn’t complaining, I was discussing…so there.
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Now, now, now, Mr. Wilcox, both parties have failed America. As usual you never seem to get anything straight or even as Mr. Allen so correctly states, ask the right questions. No surprise in that, when someone mistakes “indignation” for “anger”. Dictionary.com, Mr. Wilcox, know the difference.
It is not a matter of the parties in control, Democrat or Republican, both are guilty in failing U.S. citizens and the American people are demanding efficacy from every level of their broken government that now misrepresents them.
So if your anger, Mr. Wilcox, is so grossly misaligned with the indignation of your fellow Americans, as it appears in this case of illegal aliens and illegal immigration, then perhaps you need to get the message both political parties refuse to receive.
No amnesty under any terms, only legal immigration of reduced numbers which meets the needs and terms set by the American people; not the needs of corporate greed and the demands of any foreign nationals, including their venting allies.
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
BS Justin, Butchie missed the opportunity and defeated his own cause. Had Butchie gone to the public, which is his right, he is elected by the people not the commissioners, and argued for his needs based on starting up 287g he would have got everything he has been saying he wanted. The people of this county would have backed him to the hilt and the commissioners would have conceded. Try finding the classroom before discussing homework. :)
By Bruce Wilcox
April 11, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
What a whiney cop-out Mr. Smith, I am surprised. You try to blame both parties, but the greatest influx began after fearless leader bush took over and the republicans were in control. Speaking of control the republicans controled the congress from 94’ uo to last year, but the blame is equally shared by Democratic’s by your Southern Conservative mentality. It is so typical of your party to dump the mess (bush’s invasion) on the next guy and just walk away.
If you call the bush requested McCain/Kennedy Immigration Bill a Democratic sneak attack, let’s do the math, two supposed conservatives and one proud liberal, maybe it’s Southern math?
I realize like a lot of republicans you now claim no party, I don’t blame you, I’d be embarrassed too.
One more time Mr. Smith, the question you refuse to answer, how long has the republicans ruled this county?
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Uh, Mr. Wilcox, where do you get this idea that I answer to you?
By the way, how long did the Democrats rule this county and state?
Don’t bother trying to answer that hundred year question when it is clear your math can’t add one plus one. Both political parties have failed.
It is going to take a good bit longer to vote this year, considering all the write-in candidates that will be getting my vote.
By Cindy
April 11, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Soooo…does this mean there’s no snacks?
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
No Fritos, only Cheat-os it appears and I think we know who will be getting them, Cindy.
The American people.
By Cindy
April 11, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
hey…that was a really good play on words michael.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith stop wimping out, now we have to go back a hundred, two, three hundred years because you have to blame it on someone else, be a man, take responsibility.
No Mr. Smith you don’t have to answer to me, besides, you never have.
If you really want to get down to it, our Native Americans always believed immigration was a problem.
Funny how it became an invasion fron Mexico after fearless leader bush took over the White House for people to pay attention.
Our republican commissioners haven’t paid attention to the people of Gwinnett for over twenrty years now, I don’t live in the past Mr. Smith, I live in the present.
Good day.
Good luck with your new leader Lou Dobbs, like you, a whiner without a solution and a lot of finger pointing, I really don’t think he’ll carry Gwinnett.
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
No wimping out on my part or carry that load of crap you push around in that anti-American cart.
I got plenty of solutions and even a cures. Just admit it Mr. Wilcox, you and Mexico along with Democrats and Republicans can’t stand them.
Oh and by the way Mr. Wilcox, I am just as much “Native American” as you are and my Indian card is more valid in this state than yours (you are not Muskogee), so play your little cop-out games with indigenous history all you want, it doesn’t change a thing.
Give my condolences to your leader Jerry Gonzales over at GALEO, while the rest of us celebrate this small 287g victory for truth, justice and the American way.
Now all we need is a Sheriff like Joe Arpaio.
By Cindy
April 11, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
I like OUR sheriff…but maybe you could ask him to order up some pink outfits for the jailbirds like Arpaio did. How do we get that put on a ballot question?
Michael and Bruce, ya’ll are so angry today. grrrr. Bunch of grizzly bears.
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Me angry, did you miss the part about celebrating, Cindy?
Only Mr. Wilcox and his ilk are crying… no mas tacos, no mas tacos de mean gringos takie mi undocumented tacos.
Don’t cry Mr. Wilcox, we’re going to document as many as we can catch.
Best way to get pink PJs’ on the ballot is elect someone like Joe Arpaio and Butchie is no Sheriff Joe Arpaio.:(
By Bruce Wilcox
April 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith, again with your imagination, I didn’t play any Native American card, just pointed out a fact, go back and check if you like.
You get funnier with each comment, “anti-American”, oh no Mr. Smith, don’t turn me into Senator McCarthy.
Like Lou, you offer up all these solutions and go mute when asked where the money and manpower will come from. Remember, even our National Guard is fighting an failed invasion by fearless leader, can’t use them.
Wrong Jerry, the Jerry I followed died a few years ago.
You like to see men in pink Mr. Smith?
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
If you can’t stand heat, just keep whining about the kitchen, Mr. Wilcox.
Nah, your Jerry is still alive, barely though. Enjoy the wake over at GALEO.
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
If you really want to get down to it, our Native Americans always believed immigration was a problem.
Caught by your own lying words, Mr. pants-on-fire Wilcox.
By Gandalf, the Grey
April 11, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
i love IMMIGRANTS Just not illegal ones.Illegals, get out of my neighbors back yard and take a bus back to Mexico! They are parasites on our economy. GO HOME ILLEGALS!
By Michael H. Smith
April 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Just to address an idiotic comment that I have no answers regarding our national security here at home.
Anyone who has the minutia of a functioning brain stem to follow my support of creating a “domestic national service” should understand the motives behind such a creation.
It is two-fold in addressing two very major issues in this country. One) is to reasonably, both in terms of manpower and fiscal responsibility, build-up the required force that is necessary to actually secure this county’s borders and ports. Two) provide the means to every U.S. citizen the full funding for a college or technical education they may choose to pursue after their service to the country is completed, in a year for year compensation - For every year of service, a year of paid schooling.
Now, to my knowledge, neither, Democrat or Republican, not John McCain, Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton or any other person, of any prominence or no (that would include Lou Dobbs) is talking about doing this, as I’ve stated for the exact targeted reasons (of course there is more to the details and more that can be done than has been disclosed).
By Bruce Wilcox
April 12, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Mr. Smith the statement “If you really want to get down to it, our Native Americans always believed immigration was a problem.” is a statement if fact, not opinion. The Trail of Tears, the Indian Wars, didn’t you ever read history?
By stating a fact that killed thousands of our own over the years it took to put our native people on reservations. I did not, until now, mention that I was part Potawatomi, hardly using the race card.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 12, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
So Mr. Smith you will institute a draft to get the numbers needed for this “domestic national service” to be effective.
“full funding for a college or technical education they may choose to pursue after their service to the country is completed,”, sounds amost like the GI Bill.
Now you have the manpower, how do you pay for it? How high will our taxes go? Ever see the price tag to run our military? Our nation has an $11 Trillion Plus National Debt.
Will this Domestic Service Group be required to wear pink or Brown shirts Mr. Smith?
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
You rely that insidious little social crutch (the race card) at every turn when you have nothing to fall back on for support.
Very simplified account of history Mr. Potawatomi….
So you want to talk about the Indian Wars to further avoid the present day issue, very typical when the case you’re making is too weak to stand on its’ own merit.
Yeah I know about the Indian Wars, ever hear of the Red Sticks? Did William Weatherford and Tecumseh think there was an “immigration problem” or did they fight, as they seen it, to drive out “foreign invaders” who sought to change their system of government and way of life?
Yeah I suppose the Muskogee people where “anti-immigrant” and “just bitter” as Mr. Obama would say, as he now says of today’s citizens who oppose illegal immigrations for the invasion it represents. The Cherokee may have held such same sentiments when they joined forces with Andrew Jackson (who they now call The Great Satan) to drive out the Choctaw and Creek from what is now north Alabama and Georgia. Do you think the Cherokee ever once thought that what they did to these “bitter anti-immigrant” Choctaw and Creek Red Sticks would soon be done unto them on that Trail of Tears by the very hegemony they assisted and allied with, that told them: We are all in this together, there’s plenty to go around, forgive and forget, live and let live, you know we all just want a better life?
The sad comeuppance the Cherokee suffered on the trail of tears for fighting against their own “Native American” forms of governance and way of life, to point, that many descendants of America’s indigenous people refuse to tote a twenty dollar bill in their wallets because it bears the face of The Great Satan, has an invaluable lesson that defines and differentiates what is an invasion from what is an acceptable (legal)immigration.
A legal immigration does not attempt to change the form of governance, alter the laws, the language, the culture and the way of life of the adopting people that it is imposing upon. A legal immigration assimilates.
An invasion will invariably impose its’ own hegemony over time; and in time the invaders will defeat and replace the native people and their government, language, culture and way of life.
If you think what we have today is an immigration problem, Mr. Wilcox, then you are a very p*-poor Historian.
Onto this other drivel:
Where did Mr. Smith say anything about a draft, but that might be a good idea, considering that this service would be “domestic only” and would not include any foreign service as is Mr. Obama’s focus on revamping the Peace Crop.
Think investment Mr. Wilcox and cost reductions from reducing the costs imposed on us now by illegal immigrations, smuggling and illegal contraband, greatly reduced prison populations, less crime inside the country and less loss of life along what is now the most violent border in the world, more so than the borders of Iraq. Think of the tax revenues that will be returned to the country by the participants that will earn far more money with that better education they might otherwise never obtain.
As to apparel, I see nothing wrong with the traditional uniforms of our Guards’ and the Border Patrol.
I’ll leave the wearing of Brown shirts to that hateful anti-American group of militant Mexican nationals and their allies.
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Oh, and about that pink under wear. Sheriff Joe Arpaio, often called America’s Sheriff for his no no-sense policies against crime may just well be on to something, considering the obvious high testosterone levels of most who are in jail, they could probably use some humility in connecting with their feminine side.
I will defer to the women folk on that issue, for they assuredly are better qualified than me to discuss and disclose all the problems “high testosterone levels” tend to cause.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 12, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Let’s talk facts, the white European’s invaded the America’s, both North and South. Terrorism is too kind a word to describe what the White Europeans did to our Native American’s, including the first known use of chemical warfare. We stole slaves from Africa and use them to work our fields, while Southerners sat on their butts. We invaded Mexico, we took the Southwest from them, we took California from them. Get off your high horse Mr. Smith or declare war again on Mexico.
The idea of drafting the young to become a posse to round up illegals is nothing more than Brownshirts, after the illegals, who’s next?
The savings, moose dung, illegals and where ever they live pay property taxes, property taxes pay for our schools.
If you say medical care, millions of United State citizens have no insurance or medical care, you now want doctors to go against the oath they took?
When you look at the United States budget, any kind of public welfare is nothing but a drop in bucket.
And giving the Brownshirts the same benefits as our military is an insult to all those that served.
WASP’s really must have a hard time looking down their noses at anyone with their heads stuck so far up their butts.
By Cindy
April 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
It’s getting a little late in the day and I was beginning to get concerned. You know they say we’re supposed to learn something new every day… thanks to Michael, now I know what hegemony is…I had to look it up…
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hegemony
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Get off your lies Mr. Wilcox and distortion of the facts you misrepresent.
Wilcox lie #1
White Europeans did to our Native American’s, including the first known use of chemical warfare.
Smith Correction to lie #1
White Europeans which include the Spanish used biological warfare, germ warfare to be accurate and truthful.
Wilcox lie #2
We stole slaves from Africa
Smith correction to lie #2
We stole? I never stole anyone from anywhere, and the African slaves were bought from other Africans by those European slave traders that resold them in America.
Wilcox distortion #1
and use them to work our fields, while Southerners sat on their butts.
Smith correction to distortion #1
Northerns sat on their lazy butts while these slaves worked for them as well.
Wilcox distortion #2
We invaded Mexico, we took the Southwest from them, we took California from them.
Smith correction to distortion #2
Americans invaded a country that was taken from the Mayans and the Aztecs which didn’t include alot of the southwest land of this country that Spain stole/claimed from a number non-Aztec indigenous tribes of this country, that Mexico claimed. As I’ve correctly pointed out before, the history of land divisions in the Americas is a story of grand larceny, one party stealing from another. Choose whatever thief you prefer, it does not change a thing. If you do not or cannot, defend the land you claim you will lose it, to whatever invader that comes along to take it from you, via habitation or military force.
Wilcox lie #3
The idea of drafting the young to become a posse to round up illegals is nothing more than Brownshirts, after the illegals, who’s next?
Smith correction to lie #3
The idea of drafting or recruiting the young or any other age men and women to become a posse by a sovereign nation to enforce its’ laws, is a nation that will remain a sovereign nation by defending the sanctity of its’ laws, land and sovereign rights against such groups as the notorious “Brown Shirts” that are often referred to by some as the Klan with a sun tan. Illegal still means illegal and anyone who violates the laws of this country is next to face justice, as rightly they should.
Wilcox distortion #3
The savings, moose dung, illegals and where ever they live pay property taxes, property taxes pay for our schools.
Smith correction to distortion #3
Illegal aliens, wherever they live, often as we have witnessed here in Gwinnett County, live many to a house or apartment, sometimes as many as 20 people. They in no way pay property tax for our schools in the amounts U.S. citizens pay. Not to mention they have no right to be here at all or do their children they chose to include in their crimes.
Wilcox lie #4
If you say medical care, millions of United State citizens have no insurance or medical care, you now want doctors to go against the oath they took?
Smith correction to lie #4
No U.S. citizen is without medical care when in a life threatening emergency (not even an illegal alien), not to mention indigent care provides coverage for those who cannot afford medical services.
I never said Doctors should go against their oath and reporting encounters with an illegal alien does not violate that oath where it does not reveal any medical treatment rendered; but I do not feel I and other U.S. citizens shouldn’t be force by our government to pay Doctors to provide health services to people who don’t legally belong in this country that are being allowed to remain here by our politicians that willfully and knowingly are going against their oaths of office in betraying the trust of U.S. Citizens.
Wilcox distortion #4
When you look at the United States budget, any kind of public welfare is nothing but a drop in bucket.
Smith correction to distortion #4
Kind of an oversight failing to mention that this budget does not belong to any illegal aliens nor does that drop or the welfare bucket it falls into.
Wilcox lie #5
And giving the Brownshirts the same benefits as our military is an insult to all those that served.
Smith correction to lie #5
We would not be giving this homeland security force anything they didn’t earn and the danger along the U.S. Mexican border is no less grave than what are military faces in Iraq.
Wilcox lie #6
WASP’s really must have a hard time looking down their noses at anyone with their heads stuck so far up their butts.
Smith correction to lie #6
Anti-American bigots have no trouble at all looking down their condescending noses at Americans willing to stand up for this country and its’ laws. In fact they have no problem purveying their obvious stupidity clothed in bigotry when their butts ascribe acronyms that just don’t fit, mixed ancestry non-protestants.
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Well Cindy, when one side of your ancestry practices genocide against the other side of your ancestry in a hegemony, they call that “manifest destiny”. Of course, you probably won’t find that in any dictionary.
Many citizens of this country lost many things to that foreign hegemony that eventually became America in becoming Americans.
If you are an American be a proud one no matter who you are and realize some ancestries sacrificed more than others for that right. If you are of one such ancestry then you should take a greater pride in being a U.S. citizen.
This is one citizen who doesn’t intend to lose anything else to another foreign hegemony, no matter how cleverly disguised under any name.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 12, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Correcting Mr. Smiths corrects…
1I stand corrected, germ warfare, I guess that isn’t terrorism?
2Nationalistic Brown shirts, no more, no less.
4Backward thinking people didn’t want to tax them.
5Comparing catching an illegal attempting to cross a desert to fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is an insult to all those who serve and our vets.
As I asked, when all the illegals are caught, then what who do your Brownshirts go after?
6I don’t like the Klan, I don’t like Nationalists and I don’t like your dream army of Brown shirts.
The shoe fits you Mr. Smith, I just hope it’s not too tight.
By Cindy
April 12, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
My parents are from Alabama. A little further back than that though mixes German along with Indian (Cherokee, I think).
Does that mean I’m a mutt?
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
No it just means that people like us have a genetic advantage (according to science) in some cases against certain human aliments common to the human family, because of that ancestral mixing.
If that makes one a mutt, Cindy, then all I have to say, is bow-wow to possible longevity of days.
By Michael H.Smith
April 12, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Your bigotry doesn’t fit me in the least Mr. Wilcox nor do your lies and distortions fit reality.
It should be very clear my feeling towards your Anti-Americanism, your hatred of this country and of the south.
Your last comment does not deserve a reply, it is nothing more than the same old delusional Bull Crap.
By Cindy
April 12, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Michael, tell me more about the advantages…you’re the same mix?…like me?
By Bruce Wilcox
April 12, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith your quote on your ancestry says it all, “No it just means that people like us have a genetic advantage (according to science) in some cases against certain human aliments common to the human family”, no wonder you love Brown shirts.
By Michael H. Smith
April 12, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Excuse your ignorance Mr. Wilcox while a sensible discussion is on going. What I said flies in the face of everything the brown shirts that you have been referring to, that you say you oppose, preached about in their genetically pure superior race.
No wonder you’re an idiotic blathering bigot. It is obvious you never read any thing modern science has revealed about an expanded human gene pool. The more diverse an individual’s genetics the better off they are likely to be in fending off inherited diseases, than someone that has less genetic diversity. This has nothing to do with your little social crutch of race. It is purely a product of evolution and the re-mixing of blood lines that all lead back to their origins in Africa.
Go rejoin your Anti-American La Raza (The Race) hate group of MEChA Aztlanders where you can enlist in the fascist “Brown Berets” and help to over-throw the U.S. government’s control of the southwestern states in the interests of serving Mexican Nationalism.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 13, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
Mr. Smith, blabber all you wish, but you have proven time and again yourself a hypocrite and a white supremacist, I guess there is really nothing more to discuss.
By Michael H. Smith
April 13, 2008 2:47 AM | Link to this
Yeah right! You are the worst bigot I’ve ever encountered in my life Mr. Wilcox and you are certainly at the top among the list of all time lairs.
By Marvin Gardens
April 13, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Couldn’t we just sell the new baseball stadium to pay for it? This is much more important to the future of the county. And if the stadium is such a sure fire winner someone in the private sector will want it right?…..right?
By Cindy
April 13, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Now when you say “we”…exactly who do you mean? If you and I start trying to sell the stadium…I’ll give you a hint…there’s going to be some unhappy people. We can laugh it off and tell them it was just a big joke…but I bet they won’t laugh.
By Norcross
April 14, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Bruce,
You always are critical of every comment of everyone that isnt of your view point. Was it not Mrs Clinton that said “I am sick and tired of people saying its anti-american to disagree”. Can not you two just agree to disagree. Every comment you post is critical of the area that you choose to move to, critical of the county you still choose to live in.
How would you handle the immigration issue? I believe that we should attack the employers. I believe we should encourage everyone to speak a common language. Would you have us just allow another country to just invade? Because of our past sins against others we should just roll over? More and more people move here every day than any other country in the world. We are already the most diverse country in the world. How would you handle these problems besides b*** online? Give me your stance on Immigration, economy, war on terror(i hate this term and idea), education. Please for our sakes keep the blaming to a mimimum. I hate hearing a speaker that just focuses on politics, This administration has failed because….or the democratic controlled congress has failed.
Just what YOU would do Bruce please. None of the usual Bush has failed please please please. Your orginal ideas. I believe you are a very smart person. I dont agree with alot of what you say, but I believe in your right to have those thoughts and speak them to whoever. Nothing scares me more than the idea of the loudest person in the world who I disagree with on everything being silenced. (I am sure would will comment back “This is what the Bush Admin does on a daily basis” please don’t, we all know that Bush has failed and alot of people, like me regret voting for him, I just would not have voted.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 14, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Norcross, I supported the McCain/Kennedy Bill for starters, there is no way you’re going to rid the country of the 12 million plus that are already here. Not with an army of Brownshirts or the laughable fence.
An aside…we condemed Israel for building a wall to protect them from Palistine and they were actually bombing innocents in Israel, would that make us hypocrites?
Since there isn’t any way to send them back to conditions worst than anything we could make it, we may as well tax them. People complain all the time about the free ride they’re getting, well it wouldn’t be free anymore. Look at the other benefits, by giving them a path to citizenship they will be protected by minimun wage, no more cheap labor that so many take advantage of.
I support strict housing code enforcement and the new jail program we finally got, we don’t want the bad apples.
Now here is one of the problems I have with the county. Bert had a press release early last year that he was going to purpose an ordiance, like Cobb already had, to limit the number of unrelated adults to 400 plus square feet of living space per house, basically four to a single family home, ridding the county of boarding houses, what we get, Bert’s “Feild of Dreams”.
I disagree a lot with the government, which according to our founding fathers is my duty as a citizen. The government is not suppose to control us, “We the People” control the government.
When Mr. Smith calls me anti-American I laugh, it shows the deperation on his part that he cannot refute me.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 14, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
One point I forgot to mention Norcross, by blocking the McCain/Kennedy Bill last year, nothing will be done on immigration until next year at least.
By Norcross
April 14, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Bruce,
Thanks for you comments. I am a true conserative raised by liberal parents. I truly believe I am a dixiecrat. I often find myself at odds with what my current party of choice does, but find myself lacking better options. I believe in the right to choose life, but I believe it should be a choice made by parents. I believe I should be allowed to have a gun if I want, I have never fired one and am actually kind of scared of them. I believe in freedom to go to one church one day and worship another or not at all the next. I believe the largest role of the Federal Government is to protect us. I agree we can not ship 20 million people back to their home contry. I am willing to pay $8 for a bag of apples. I am not willing to pay $5 while the government makes 60 cents and Exxon makes 8. (I am a small share holder in exxon) I pay bi-monthly for health insurance, I have been to the doctor once in the past 4 years. I am set to retire in 2045, Social Security goes broke in 2043. I believe it is my job to provided the right experience and value to my employer, if not I should be replaced. I believe it is my job to plan my retirement, not the government. I believe in being involved on the local level of politics. I believe in living green and recycle more than I throw out. I get mad as heck when I see someone has a box in their garbage bin when if they just put it next to the bin it would be recycled. I believe that Iraq was most likely a huge mistake. I also know that Congress could end it if they really wanted to. I wonder how being in Iraq is a bad idea to democrats but Afganistan is not. I wonder how come Democrats refuse to admit that in the world of economics 1 billion people in India with a $2000 car, 1 billion people in China might lead to a decrease in supply which leads to an increase in price. If it works for elmo and PS3 why does it not work for Oil. I wonder how all of these highly educated people in Congress always treat us like we are dumb. I wonder why the GOP hides behind national pride and security in the immigration issue istead of just saying its about cheap labor. I wonder how Obama knows what is like growing up poor and black, when he was raised by his white mother in Hawaii and Kenya, educated at Harvard and then moves to the highest% black district in American making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I wonder why Mccain says that the free market should rein in Health care when it is clear that it is not working.
I am glad you commented on these issuses. I would venture a opinion that you and Michael H Smith agree on 95% of the topics as do most Americans. We get stuck in this horrible 2 party system. Other countries may have two dominating parties but they have other real parties that win elections, stand for something different and give people a choice.
“We the people” should never just be words.
By Michael H. Smith
April 15, 2008 2:58 AM | Link to this
I’ve refuted you so many times I’ve lost count Mr. Wilcox. And, just to set the record straight about what can’t be done. In the ’70s this country deported 10 million. Don’t doubt for a minute that it can’t be done again. It can.
Your venture is way off base Norcross, we disagree on 95% of the issues.
First, that bigot, believes in races (just like the Klan). I don’t. Race is a social crutch invented in the minds of the weak, it is a meaningless category and as JFK said many years ago of race, it has no place in America or in the law.
Second, he believes crime should be rewarded. I don’t.
Third, this liberal elitist among worse far things, believes in welfare. I don’t.
Forth, this goofball, can’t figure out that without energy independence this country will never leave the middle east. I have figured that one out a long time ago. We can leave Iraq today and we’d be back in a few months to secure the oil.
Fifth, he thinks cafe standards will really change things. I know better, they won’t and without alternative fuels entering the energy marketplace gas prices will not fall to any great extent.
Sixth, he believes in “Free Healthcare”. I don’t believe anything is free, especially not healthcare and it never will be.
It would be worthless to continue on because outside of left-wing-nut talking points he hasn’t got a clue as to reality.
By Michael H. Smith
April 15, 2008 3:21 AM | Link to this
Oh and Norcross, on the 5% that the Anti-American and I do agree on…. it is that we have nothing to discuss!
By Cindy
April 15, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this
that makes up 5%? nah…have a look at what I propose…
1%-agree there’s nothing to discuss (with each other) 1%-agree that discussing with others is still ok 1%-agree that blogging is a suitable past-time. 1%-agree that some things need changed 1%-agree that Cindy rocks (ok, I’m stretching it…maybe each of the others should be 1.25%?)
By John
April 15, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
It’s amazing how fast you people get off the subject. This is not a liberal vs conservative issue. There can be no better use of our tax dollars than to rid our county of illegal aliens. If you want to help the poor people of the world then move to where they live and do your good work there. Do not ask me to help Grigo hating law breakers continue to steal from our country.
By Michael H. Smith
April 16, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this
We definitely agree John, there can be no better use of our tax dollars than to enforce our laws that will send illegal aliens back home(because we are a nation of laws).
No amnesty, no way, no how, for the illegal aliens or for the employers who hire them.
By Norcross
April 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Amnesty will not matter, how many of these people have had kids that will allow them to stay. Walk into any supermarket in gwinnett. You do not see white or black babies, but there are a TON of babies. Face it, our country has been completely changed. The policital power of Hispanics is ALL that matters now. Big Electoral states, FL, TX, CA all are or soon will be majority Hispanic. They have already passed Black Americans as the largest minority, all of the policital power and gains black americans have had will be eroded over the next few years. It will not matter what you do with the illegals. Their kids will be running rebublic very very soon. Sorry.. 4 years working in a Wal Mart, Lilburn, Stone Mountain, Suwanee and Duluth have shown me these truths. Hispanic power is ALL that truely matters to our elected officals. Every article you read is “the critial growing hispanic vote” the other 260 million people in this country DO NOT MATTER. Only swing states. Cementing the hispanic vote in one party or the other is all that the leaders of our country care about.
Best bet to ensure that our way of life and culture survive is to go get involved. Go read and work at the Latin American Association. Show them we know they are here to stay, we will take the best part of their culture add it to our own. Keep the tradition of the melting pot going.
By Michael H. Smith
April 16, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
I don’t have to go read. The point made is why I strongly advocate for amending clause one of the fourteenth amendment that would make birthright citizenship a matter of inheritance and NOT GEOGRAPHY. Needless to say, No Amnesty matters greatly, it has not worked previously and will not work now or tomorrow. Rewarding crime only gives incentives for more crime and illegal immigration/invasion is a crime.
This country has all the Spanish culture needed already and the country certainly does not need any more Mexican nationals coming here to defeat the very purpose and intent of legal immigration to this country.
This morning with great pleasure and elation I had the privilege of congratulating a recently new U.S. Citizen as a fellow American (Her country of birth is Korea). As she told me of the day’s event’s that took place when she along with many others pledged the oath of citizenship to the United States of America, that there were people from 39 different countries joining the American family that day. Now that is an “acceptable immigration” not as it is now with two countries dominating the legal immigration scene, with India and Mexico dwarfing in numbers all other countries in legal migrations to the United States.
I would also support very strongly a moratorium on receiving anymore legal immigrants from India and countries south of the U.S. border, until the rest of the world’s countries have a period to experience some real equality in U.S. immigration, to represent “real diversity”.
My best bet and that of the country is to show the illegal aliens we intend for them to leave!
By Norcross
April 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Anyone going to the Transit Planning Board to Present Metro Atlanta Regional Transit Vision To Gwinnett Village Businesses and Residents tonight?
I hope to be there and hope to see meet some of my neighbors.
Katie, any luck selling that home on Huddersfield?
I made a mistake of going to look at a property off mitchell road on everglades trl on a Sunday. I was shocked. I knew it was going to be bad but WOW. It look like a third world country. 6 cars, kids with no shoes running around with no parents in sight. Beer boxes everywhere only to be overshadowed by the daiper boxes. It was very very sad. You can take the mexican out of mexico, you can not remove the mexican out of them though. Oh and so nobody gets mad I counted 20 cars with mexico stickers, and I would say 80% of the cars had the La Raza sticker. They are a horrible disgrace to the americans that came here 20 years ago from mexico and other countries who only speak spanish to their grandparents and own their home and businesses.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 16, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Norcross, I am surprised to hear a comment like, “You can take the mexican out of mexico, you can not remove the mexican out of them though.”, pure ignorance.
My neighbor is Mexican (it’s caps by the way), the house and lawn are kept better than most Whites. Now down the street is a typical boarding house, eight trucks in the driveway and the house not well kept.
One has pride in their home, the others, renters. Now the problem with renters, Black, White or Latino is why should they care?
So you see, the problem is with Bert forgeting what he purposed about the limit of adults, the county for code enforcement,the county for waiting till the problem was so out of hand, they even worried about votes.
I get more than a little ticked when a entire community of people are labeled when many are LEGAL citizens. People forget that on blogs and in general, legal citizens are labeled as illegal just by the color of their skin. Tell me when do we have to start carrying papers to prove if we were born here or not.
By Norcross
April 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
What knowledge am I lacking that leads to my ignorance?
Lawn is kept better than most whites…. that is pure ignorance as well. Now I know you don’t believe that because you know that just by the hugh number of whites in America it is not possible that the comment is true. I realize you made this claim for effect, I agree that sometimes it is the case. She most likely values her home and the sacrifices she made to obtain it more than most people do. Have you asked them if they wish to become citizens of this great country, they are home owners, that’s part of the American dream is it not?
Maybe I was commenting on a negative sterotype. Maybe I was wrong to do so. Maybe sterotypes are vivable because people see a truth in those sterotypes and connect to them. Right or wrong. The fact that you took the negative out of my comment shows that you connect to the sterotype in some way. What’s is even more funny to me is that my realtor is a second generation American who’s family hails from Mexico. That is his quote. I should have used quotations. I remove myself from his quote and label it as racist.
If Bruce will excuse me I have to go read to a young American child, first generation here. His parents immigrated to Texas from Mexico(happy a*?)and now to Georgia they also speak no English and are unable to read to him or help in any way with school work. As a result he was singled out to recieve extra attention from the local community. Sadly his parents buy the Wrestlemania PPV, he has a PS3, PSP, and knows how much his shoes cost all in 3rd grade. But I guess its my fault. Also almost all of the kids in this program are minorities, none of which are Asian. Now we could blog on about the economic differences in the county and how it leads to different minorites not having the resourses to achieve. I will not disput that Non-Asian,Non-Indian immigrants tend to be in the lower economic status and that there could be something done about that. That is the progressive in me.
Bruce please read and post any typing errors. I tend to type fast without the ability to actually do so.
I was actually warming up to you…. starting to think that some of what you were saying was making sence, then you do the typical internet response. Insult.
Bruce will you be at the Northern Star Coffee House in Norcross next Wednesday? Bert will be there, I plan and giving him a hard time about this Stadium. How our rep is touting this crap while placing it in North Gwinnett…. the South end of the county would benefit MORE from the stadium as a means of economic development. Of course there are the closed door meetings, tax money spent and other problems I hope to talk to him about…. Bret….ahhh
Bruce do you live in the City of Norcross, or in un-incorporated Gwinnett Norcross?
By Bruce Wilcox
April 17, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Norcross this, “The fact that you took the negative out of my comment shows that you connect to the sterotype in some way”, is by far the best squirm I’ve seen. It is now my fault that I understood the negative sterotype you made. The lawn explaination another great effort dodging, it would be impossible for my neighbors to have a better lawn than Whites because of the shear number of Whites compared to Mexicans. While that may be true in the entire country, in a few years it may be different.
I don’t check spellling, I too write fast, the idea is more important than grammar, but when insulting a entire group of people using a l.c. m is just added insult.
As far as warming up, you were doing great until you insulted entire group as a bunch of sloppy illegals. When you insult an entire group who are the main topic of discussion, don’t whine if you received, maybe you deserved it?
Bert hasn’t invited me, we use to correspond on a regular basis, but I think Bert is mad at me? Give me the time and date, I just may make it.
Un-incorporated, within the Gwinnett Village but with a Lilburn address, go figure.
By Norcross
April 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
I am very worried that the number of Mexicans in the USA may outnumber the white USA citizens. I have no problem at all if the number of US citizens here that have family histories that include Mexico, Panama, China or whatever are the majority. I just want them to refer to themselves as Americans.
Should not we be worried if the majority of people in the country identify themselves as Mexican rather than American? As your post pointed out may happening in a few years. I am proud of my heritage also, but am an American first, and southerner second and a Scot-Irish third.
And Bruce, if you truly believe I was attempting to insult a entire group of people by not capitalizing a letter I feel sorry for you because you are looking for hate in someone that actually cares and tries to make a difference.
I am not squeamish or dodging anything. I clearly state what I feel. You just are constantly on the attack of people that you disagree with you and feel the need to demonstrate your knowledge in a confrontation on the internet (from what I can tell you actually would speak your opinions face to face as well, something I respect). Other people on here usually start or respond in the same fashion which leads to people starting to feel people that disagree with them should be hated and insulted which leads to the terms “liberal” and “conservative” being bad words. Please do not take the lack of the “l” being capitalized as an insult. As before you KNOW that I didn’t do it with the thought to insult.
As with most of my posts. Here is an off topic thought. I love the fact that in the City of Norcross you don’t need a party to tell which person to vote for. Issues only. Nothing is worst than a person voting based on the letter next to the name.
Wed April 23rd. 8:15. It will mostly about issues in Norcross, however Village issues will be brought up. Hopefully the Q&A session will be longer than the “speaking” session if you know what I mean.
By Norcross
April 17, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Oh I forgot that everyone is welcome at the Northern Star in downtown Norcross. Bert is supposed to be there and all are welcome. I hope that most people on this blog can make it. I don’t know if I can make it but will try.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 17, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
I apologize if I mistook ““You can take the mexican out of mexico, you can not remove the mexican out of them though.”, as an insult, my mistake.
As far as being confrontational, I treat people the way I am treated, if one has a opinion, defend it, I detest blanket comments. I’m completely honest in my opinions, that’s why my real name goes along with each post, like it or not, I stand behind what I write or say.
About the meeting, too late, the eye’s are getting old and that area is not the best when it comes to traffic.
By Norcross
April 18, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Sorry you will not be able to make it. Anything you would like me to address to Bert. Besides his grandstanding and poddling to Peachtree Corners and North Gwinnett with a new Statdium, lack of long term planning, the mess on Buford Highway, have and have not schools, affordable housing only in the worst parts of the county or way out near Barrow?
To bad Lorrine Green won’t be there either.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 18, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
No, thanks anyway, Bert knows how I feel and it doesn’t matter if any other commissioner is there, they speak as one. At least they do behind closed doors like with the stadium.
Wait, you could ask Bert or any other commissioner, since we were not allowed to vote on the stadium, can we vote on increasing the living space per person to rid the county of the boarding houses? Bert still gets his “Field of Dreams” and we would get something that would help all of us.
By Norcross
April 18, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
:-)
Touche.
I was pleased with the TEZ that Gwinnett Police conducted in the Village a couple of months ago. They touted the decrease in crime, however that was only a temporary solution. Stronger enforcement of code, included new code, and more than the figure piece “Quality of Life” unit would lead to some change quickly. I support the Village and I understand it takes time to correct the problems that were so easily over looked for the past 15 years. To many of our leaders are doing what will keep them in office, not what is the best for the people of the county, state, country.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Norcross, remember the Village had to hire off-duty Gwinnett officers to bring the crime down. What a glaring example of an understaffed police force, the CID shouldn’t have to hire off-duty officers to correctly contol crime, of all things that is the responsibilty of the county government.
By Johnny
April 20, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
From 2002 to 2007 FY, Sheriff Overtime expenses increased over $3.1 million ($1.6 million to $4.7 million)
Good human resource management could save the taxpayers #3.1 Million and pay for any so called increase in the implementation of 287(g).
By Johnny
April 20, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
The number of sworn positions for the Sheriff has grown from 371 (FY2000) to 534 (FY 2007) or 44%. Between 2005 and 2007 the Sheriff received 9,544 qualified applicants and hired only 245 sworn personnel.
Do you really believe Butch can make the 298(g)program a success?
By Michael H. Smith
April 20, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
I don’t believe Butch has any desire to make the 287g program a success. That is why I’m hoping someone that will work to see the benefits of this program succeed run to defeat him.
I don’t believe the ball team is going to do much more than drain taxpayer dollars that can be better invested into infrastructure.
I don’t believe this CID scheme is anything more than a means to grab money (otherwise unobtainable) and perhaps a little political clout. All for the purchase price of a little eye-washing of an area in decline.
Off duty police, private police force , what a farce. Admit it people, the county police need more manpower to get the job done. That probably means higher taxes, if less crime and better enforcement is desired.
By Katie
April 20, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Norcross, Unfortunately, we are not in the position of selling—not a good market right now. Besides, we need our house to be worth more than what we purchased it for and that’s not going to happen right now with the way Gwinnett Village area is. My dream is still to have a developer come in and ask us to sell our house. For now, the best we can do is to keep our house up, make sure our yard looks great and keep complaining about those that don’t do the same. I can be honest and say that we rushed into purchasing our house here—we should have looked around a lot more and in different areas. Hind sight is 20/20 and we won’t be making the same mistake again—if we’re ever able to sell for a profit that would enable us to get a nice down payment. I put $20,000 down on this house and would need at least the same for another down payment. I earned that money through investments and even now, my investmens aren’t making nearly the profits they used to. It’s a bad market, all around.
I’m really disappointed that the city of norcross wants to spend 1.8 million on Thrasher parks baseball field and surrounding areas. Actually, I’m down right p** off about it. City of Norcross’s only focus is on a 5 block little district. There’s a lot more to Norcross than that little area and there’s many more areas that are in need of that money. The goal should be to get all of Norcross up to standards. The gangs, prostitutes, illegals and drug dealers need to be shown that Norcross doesn’t want them here.
By reader
April 20, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Complaining about a decaying area does nothing to improve it. Get involved and do something about it. Neighborhods do not decline overnight. Turning a blind eye is what brings about the decay. Neighborhood/city preservation is just as much a responsibility of residents and homeowners as it is the elected officials. Speak up and speak out. And, actions speak louder than words.
By another reader
April 20, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Neither is posting non-sense going to improve it. The people complaining can’t be turning a blind eye and the only actions they have not taken is resorting to unlawful conduct by taking the law into their own hands.
By reader
April 20, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
AR: What are you talking about?
How do you know what people have done? The poster said she was going to keep on complaining. Big deal. Don’t expect much if that is the only course of action. Simply complaining about decline is not the same as taking action to prevent further decay, or a way to make things better.
People are angry now because the blight is staring them in the face. However, when the decline began, what did they do to stop it, or prevent it from getting worse???? Neighborhoods do not decline overnight.
A proactive stance is more productive than a reactive one. It’s not nonsense. Been there. Done that. Our community faced a similar potential fate. However, the n’hood took action, held people, violators and officials alike, accountable, and dealt with the issues on several levels…neighbor to neighbor, hoa, county and later, city.
It took time and persistence. Set goals. Devise a plan. Keep records. Take photos. Follow through. Follow through. Follow through. Follow through. Repeat as often as necessary.
Too many people sit back, identify the issues, and expect someone else to fix them. If they had dealt with the decline as it was occurring, things might not be so bad.
By Fig Newton
April 20, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Bruce, Mike and Johnny, you guys need to contact the County and offer to consult on fixing the Sheriff’s Dept. With the wealth of knowledge you three have on running the operation you could save us millions and millions of dollars that we are spending on the jail. Gosh, I bet you have years and years of experience combined in running jails and sheriff’s depts. It’s your civic duty to just do it.
By Cindy
April 20, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Fig Newton, (I love fig newtons. strawberry newtons too)
You hit the nail on the head. bam.
Between 2005 and 2007 the Sheriff received 9,544 qualified applicants and hired only 245 sworn personnel.
It’s possible, yay even highly likely that you might not know everything just because you read the papers and watch the news.
By Michael H. Smith
April 20, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Been there… done that… I have consulted already Fig, for free even.
Want to read it again?
Get a new Sheriff and get a new Chairman.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 20, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
Newton, I’m a retired fire captain, I had a limited number of personel, and a limited budget to run my crew and equipment on. The ideal number to run on is five, we had four on the good days, three on the bad days. The difference between the sheriff and myself is I didn’t campaign to boo-hoo the minute I got the job, I worked with what I had and what was asked for from me. So on a smaller scale I do know something about it, only I did’t boo-hoo, then run only to boo-hoo again. If I felt I couldn’t handle my job, I’d ask for a lower rank, resign or never run again, at least in the fire service we do not like cry-baby’s.
By Michael H. Smith
April 20, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Here you go Cindy, I haven’t spoken a word to Chief Walters. Have not read a thing out of him in the press, not a word period. Now, I’ll bet you two cases of Fritos that if I ask the Chief, do you need more officers patrolling the county he would say yes. Not only that he would say, Mr. Smith, are you willing to pay for these officers?
For the record, because I get most of my services from the City of Lawrenceville, I have publically stated on more than one occasion, telling the Mayor that if we need more police officers, then raise my taxes to hire them if it is needed.
I’ll make that same standing offer to Chief Walters, provided the county commissioners understand my top priority is not ball parks, ball teams and ball games. It is ridding this county of thugs, thieves, murderers, drug dealers, gang members and people who do not legally belong in this country, no matter of what nationality.
Now Cindy, talk is cheap. My money is on the line and I’m waiting on my Fritos.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 20, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith, someone above wrote that we would agree 95% of the time, well I agree, but we both love being the ‘Devils Advocate’.
Out of four above I disgree with you on one, the CID concept, a self taxing district, which no one is forced to join ( not like my New York), to improve area.
The JCB area has a lot to offer, they missed the Christmas rush, but, instead of sitting in traffic on I-85, shop! What could be better than to take a break and explore, you won’t get mugged, you won’t get robbed, nothing will happen to you that wouldn’t in any other place in Gwinnett.
If the county commissioner’s and the state get off their butts, ( and I do mean all), and actually do something about the traffic patterans along JCB, all else is worthless.
We have a something all of Gwinnett should be proud of, a wonderful new, Hindu Temple in Lilburn. We should have new hotels to greet our guests, we should have better traffic flow, we have to show them what real Southern hospitality is.
So far, zip.
“Play Ball”
By Michael H. Smith
April 20, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
God, this is killing me! We agree at least 95% on 1%.
Butchy, is definitely a crybaby!
By Rage Against The Machine
April 20, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
I have been a Gwinnett Sheriff’s Deputy for 22 years. I was also a Gwinnett Firefighter/EMT for 8 years. some of you folks don’t have a clue. You have numbers but you don’t have facts. And some of you have political axes to grind. I have worked for three Sheriffs and a three Fire Chiefs. Sheriff Conway is by far the most committed community oriented Leader I have served under. Mr Wilcox was a Fire Captain with a five man crew? Yes sir I would say that is a smaller scale. So small in fact that there is virtually no comparison. Heck, I supervise 47 highly motivated Deputies to control 2,700 criminals. No one is whining. No one is “boo hooing”. The Sheriff and his staff wants to perform any and all duties in an effective and professional manner. Having served Gwinnett County in both the Fire and Sheriff’s Departments I can honestly say that I have earned my opinion here. And for you folks that think you have the answers, don’t be shy. Come join us. We are hiring! (No consultants please.)
By Michael H. Smith
April 20, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
To the Rage: First of all I’m too old to come join. Second, it takes a certain type of person to do the job of law enforcement and I’m smart enough to know I’m not that person. Third, when a man put his money behind his big mouth and his on legal name on a public comment before God and everybody, I think a coward who makes boasts anonymously ought to take account of themselves before condescendingly consulting another.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 20, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
By Rage Against The Machine, let me this this right, you gave up 8 years as Firefigther/EMT to take a lower paying position as a deputy? Were deputies paid more than firefighters/EMT’s back then?
That would be hard to believe, either you’re a firefighter or you’re not, most wouldn’t last that long, even with all the political connections you could muster.
Sorry dude, it just doesn’t fly.
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
ok, I’ve scrubbed all the corners nice and clean, so the firefighter p** contest really isn’t necessary.
Bruce, I do believe you’re a very intelligent and experienced man.
Michael, you too…and you’re funny. I like that. Especially that you remembered about the Frito’s.
Now…just because I don’t list a whole slew of facts and throw out percentages and statistics…doesn’t mean I’m ignorant. But what I will put on the table, at this point is this: when a person (lets use our sheriff for an example)is accountable to us, and is steady taking steps to implement exactly what’s been demanded, what’s the point of demeaning his efforts? Where’s the incentive coming from? What’s gained by doing so? I would think that if something has been asked, then answered, there’d be a little more support from ya’ll, not constant criticism. After a while, it begins to sound more on a personal level than professional.
Last week, you guys made strides and almost showed support for the county’s future improvement. I was so proud of ya’ll. Seriously. Then it’s like when the moon turned full, it all just went to hell.
Michael, sweetie, before I run out and get the Fritos, I need some more info from you…
you said…
I don’t believe Butch has any desire to make the 287g program a success. That is why I’m hoping someone that will work to see the benefits of this program succeed run to defeat him.
Why do you believe he had no desire to make it successful? What you do base that on? Who would this more progressive sheriff than he be? And what merit could a different sheriff possibly hold, if they’re simply carrying on what Conway has already done all the legwork on but not had the opportunity to use? You can’t say that another Sheriff would do better with 287(g)…Conway hasn’t failed…how can someone else do better when there’s no benchmark yet? Who is the potential sheriff who would come equipped with the experience you seek?
I’ll be waiting…I’m not running out yet to get your Fritos…you might end up having to get them for me. :)
on a side note:
When Gwinnett starts shaping the county around a Hindu temple, ya’ll can have it…
By Rage Against The Machine
April 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
OK my name is Roger Fowler. You can check me out if you like. The Gwinnett Sheriff’s Department of today is not the one that I started with. Sheriff Bobby Plunkett was a good man and he brought us out of the dark ages. Sheriff Jim Carsten? Well if you can’t say anything nice…..Sheriff Conway inherited a mess created by a totally inept administration. Now I have not always agreed with his every decision. But I know that he has shaped the department to be the best in the state. And I will say this again He is the most comitted community oriented Leader that I have worked for. And yes I am a loyal son of a you know what. And OK maybe even a little condescending. But thats just the Firefighter coming out in me.
Garryowen Yall
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Garryowen Yall
ok…I give…what the heck does that mean?
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
got it…forgot that google is my friend.
:)
By Rage Against The Machine
April 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Oh and another thing. I’m confused Mr. Wilcox. What doesn’t fly Dude?
Fir Na Tine ;)
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Renegades of Funk
By Rage Against The Machine
April 21, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Are you a Rage fan Cindy?
By Michael H. Smith
April 21, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
If you take the trouble to read more of my comments about the Sheriff and the Chairman, you would know why I have taken on what you may see as anger. Don’t make that Obama mistake. The correct word is indignation. Both the Chairman and the Sheriff could have pursued 287g long before now and so could’ve others in our local government and saved the taxpayers of this county alot of grief and money. It would also have made a big positive difference in the JCB area. Anyone who tells me about how committed they are to the community that has not taken a strong vocal stand against illegal immigration is simply wasting my time. Any elected official that has the legal means to do something about illegal aliens and doesn’t, is robbing this community and squandering taxpayer money.
As for consulting Mr. Rogers, I plan on doing alot of that - at the ballot box, come judgment day.
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Michael, If it wasn’t possible until now, it just wasn’t…but we can’t live in the future when it’s imperative to look to the future.
Elected officials are always accountable to someone else. Sometimes it takes a little while to get everything realized, planned, approved…implemented.
So who gets the Fritos?
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Rage, Are there people who don’t like that song “Renegades of Funk?”
You should see me going down the road with it really loud, thumping and bumping…wait…no…wrong vision…if you’re the po-leece…maybe you shouldn’t see me going down the road…haha.
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
duh…sorry michael…i meant we can’t live in the past…grrr…i wish we had an edit button on here.
btw, i also forgot to ask you…you’re gonna consult at the ballot box?
By Bruce Wilcox
April 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Mr. Fowler, what doesn’t fly with me is having eight years with the Fire Department, only to resign and take a job as a lower paid deputy?
To most firefighters it is a career you love, those who dislike it usually don’t last for eight years.
But that’s the way it is where I’m from and a deputy is paid far less than a firefighter.
I don’t know the pay scales down here and I’d rather save than lock them up.
Just my opinion.
By Michael H. Smith
April 21, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
I don’t live in the past Cindy and I don’t intend to let that past continue to live on into the future.
Many nuance the idiom of “we are a nation of immigrants”.
If that be so, kind souls, what are we going to do with this “nation of U.S. citizens” who are not immigrants and haven’t had an immigrant in their family for at least three, four or more generations back in their genealogy?
We are in reality, a nation that has descended from immigrants.
It is truly unfortunate that the immigration history of this country has been often dictated by the role of commerce to the embarrassment and dismissal of those high ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of the Constitution. Nevertheless, sadly that has been and remains the reality.
Yes indeed, there is a very big difference between a “legal immigration” as defined by Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution to that of an “orchestrated invasion” conducted by a government or governments in collusion being performed for and at the behest of, commerce.
What must be stopped/consulted, Cindy, are those in our government who serve commerce at any cost, morality and conscience be excluded, in betraying this nation of U.S. Citizens that are the descendants of immigrants.
When all honesties and sincerities fail the truth, try reality.
By Rage Against The Machine
April 21, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
I wish that I could see the logic in voting an experienced dedicated Sheriff out of office because you are not happy about a problem that has been developing for 25 plus years. A problem that no one cared about 10 years ago. Every community that has experienced growth and prosperity over the last two decades has the same issues. We all have benefited from illegal immigration in some way, shape, fashion, or form. So I suppose that makes us all at least a little bit culpable. I am not going to try to sell you something that you don’t want to buy. You are mad and you want your voice to be heard. Heck I don’t like what has happened either. But it did’nt happen overnight and it darned sure won’t be fixed overnight. And please don’t forget that these are real live people, families and communities that we are talking about. Voting an elected official out of office for this is just plain irresponsilble behavior.
And please don’t call me Mr. Rogers. It sounds creepy.
Garryowen Yall
By Michael H. Smith
April 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
We disagree.
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Michael, I reckon I am just stoopid. I can’t truly figure out what is is you’re displeased about. I’ve tried…and right about the time I think I have my finger on it…I’m nowhere near the mark. Please put on your patient demeanor and help me understand. I am NOT being sassy or rude…I think you know that about me by now…but justin case you even thought I was, I’m not.
It reminds me of one time when Bruce told somebody he was going to say it again and this time he was going to type it really slow so they could keep up…Bruce…THAT was funny. :)
Michael, you don’t have to type slowly to me, just spell it out for me…I’m apparently dense and have low reading comprehension skills. :(
Sometimes it sounds to me like you support immigration as long as it’s legal. I do. I mean sometimes I get all mouthy and stuff, but in my heart…I like people and despise people who mistreat others because of descent. However at other times, I don’t think I understand what you’re view is. Just help me out…
…and we can decide the Fritos later…I’m full now. Even if you were the recipient…you were gonna share, yes?
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
The nickname Mr. Rogers does sound kinda creepy.
So, Roger Fowler…why did you stop being a firefighter? If it’s none of my business, it’s ok to say that. Just asking.
And how are we supposed to check up on you anyway (like you said up there)? Research? Will there be a test to follow? kiddin’ man, kiddin’. :)
By Rage Against The Machine
April 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Ok Cindy here it goes(And by the way, I was just in my Jeep. Top down blasting “Bulls on Parade” That’s how I roll Yo:)When I got out of the Army in 1986 I wanted to be a Firefighter. But alas there were no jobs in Gwinnett. The only thing available was Deputy Sheriff so I said what the heck. Back then there was the old Jail at 872 Hi Hope. And lets not forget the gently used single wide trailers that housed Field Operations and Sheriff’s Administration. Upon becoming certified in 1987 I transferred to Field Operations where I worked my way up the food chain (For three Sheriff’s I might add.) Long about 1998 I decided that if I did’nt become a Firefighter I would always regret it. In 99 I transferred full time to GCFES. However I remained an active Deputy Sheriff as well as a member Of the GCSO SWAT (Still on the Entry Team as a Tactical Medic). Trying to maintain certifications as a Professional Firefighter, Peace Officer and Medic simultaneously is somewhat difficult. But there are a handfull of folks in Gwinnett that do.
I love both careers and I love being a public servant (I really do). But because I am almost 50 and I want to be able to contribute until I’m about 96 years old. I “Retired” from the Fire Service. I still keep my leather helmet in my office. And I still believe that “Once a Brother Always A Brother”. All Firemen Know this.
So I,m back full time with the S.O doing an important job that I love. I work with an awesome group of dedicated folks that take a near impossible situation and make it look easy.
One thing that working on the “Trucks” did for me was make me understand how valuable and at the same time how fragile life is. You want to know what bad day looks like? Ask a Firefighter what he he/she has seen. Kinda makes you happy to be alive and all.
So there you have it Cindy. I hope I have not disappointed or worse yet bored you.
Garryowen Yall
Oh and Fir Na Tine Brother Wilcox
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Fixin’ to go bump and thump on my way home…i’ll check back with ya’ll later.
Thank you Roger…you were a FF here? GCFS? Sorry, I’ll read it more in depth at home.
later ya’ll.
By Norcross
April 21, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
So according to Rage Fowler because nobody cared about climate change or immigration 10 years ago, we are not allowed to hold our current elected officals accountable for what they have failed to do in the past few years(or if we do not like their plans for the future)???
Almost all of us own cars….we all are using power mostly supplied by coal burning plants. Now if this is the cause of climate change or not I can not say, but going forward I expect my elected officals to take a stand one way or the other on the issue. If I do not like what they say I will not vote for them.
I support the sheriff as an elected positions and believe that him and Boyd and Pinkard do a great job and thank you for your duel service. But to tell me I am not allowed to hold someone accountable because you fail to see the logic is silly.
I just fail to see how my voting habit are irresponsible…. please educate me. I will agree that single issue voting is the worst thing that can happen, and I will be voting for Butch. He has been in law enforcement longer than I have been alive and think that he does a good job.
By Cindy
April 21, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Woody,
Do you still write or are just stuck with this dead horse of a blog?
By Bruce Wilcox
April 21, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Quite impressive Brother Fowler, I am proud to say I am a fourth generation firefighter, we now have a fifth on duty.
While it’s true most of us had second jobs I never considered another full-time career. I had my own business as a freelance graphic artist, more flexibility on my time.
I’m glad you’re lucky enough to have had two careers you love, few can say that.
The problem with the sheriff and the commissioners around this time of year is everything turns into a political football game. Hanging the 287(g) program over the commissions head is not serving the people. Then the Chairman and a commissioner who wants to be chairman play I wanted the program first.
Let’s see, the sheriff got his extra deputys, we get the program, the chairman and the commissioner who wants to be chairman can both claim they saved the program, it can’t be an election year can it?
Maybe if they all spent more time doing the jobs they were elected to, we wouldn’t have all the problems facing the county we do today.
Peace and Fir Na Tine Brother Fowler.
By Rage Against The Machine
April 22, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
Brother Wilcox. Sheriff Conway has lots of people that care about the community and the reputation of our Department. Supervisors are encouraged to think out side the box. What ever we are tasked with we will make it work.
I hope that I have not offended anyone on this board. When you spend a career trying to serve your community sometimes you just want your community to see things from your perspective.
You good folks take care, These have been my off days and I don’t have time for this stuff at work
Airborne Leads The Way!!!
By Michael H. Smith
April 22, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
Cindy, you really don’t get it do you? No matter how many times I go over it. Well, I not going to do that all over again. Go back and read what I said from the beginning about Butchy. The date he was elected Sheriff and the date 287g went into effect. 12 years Cindy? With a county full of citizens raising the roof about illegal aliens, gangs and so on, every one of those years. Letters to the editor published in this paper from people all over this county, especially from the JCB barrio (those people have moved by the way) and nothing gets done, not even from the man who is suppose to be sooooooooooooooooooo civic minded that could have pursued 287g way the hell back then, but didn’t!
If that still doesn’t make any sense to you then nothing I say ever will. Butchy is part of the problem and has been, for all those years. He is not the solution.
Cindy, I’ll clue you in, read what I said about politicians serving commerce at any cost and you can apply that to just about any of these local politicos you want to look at.
By Cindy
April 22, 2008 6:42 AM | Link to this
Thank you Michael for trying…again. Blanket statements aren’t for me. Single vision isn’t either. But that’s my own cross to bear. And don’t talk down to me. I’ve never done that to you.
By Michael H. Smith
April 22, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Cindy that is not a blanket statement and if you think this is a single issue then you don’t understand issues. ;)
Very few issues, if any, stand alone. They overlap, interact and have a compound effect upon one another. Illegal immigration is one issue that impacts and interacts on so many others issues- i.e. school overcrowding, healthcare costs, auto insurance costs, property valuations, crime… any need to go on?
Norcross, don’t fool yourself there really is no such thing as single issue. And to Mr. Rogers, pal you are so far off the mark, the kindest thing I could say is, we disagree and let it go. You really have no clue if you truly believe everyone has benefited from illegal aliens. Only a people few have benefited, most have been negatively impacted.
Uh don’t talk down… you’ve never done that? BS Cindy. Try some reality here. You have an agenda, so do I and they do not agree. It is that simple and we too, disagree - with Fritos or without. :)
By Michael H. Smith
April 22, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
From the Badie Blog ~ Immigration screening ahead
Last year, the jail processed 12,000 foreign-born inmates on charges ranging from traffic citations to homicide. Their incarceration lasted anywhere from three days - the jail average - to months and years.
“We suspect a large number were illegal.” said Sims, a former Los Angeles homicide detective. “It’s difficult to track them.”
>
Every foreign-born inmate “human being who is behaving badly” that gets deported from our county jail is a cost savings to we taxpayers. The illegal amigo that commits a traffic violation today, once released, may well be tomorrow’s next homicide case.
What value do you put on the live of that human being who is the murdered victim of the above cited amigo, Sheriff Conway? Would they be just another single issue?
I’m sure the many myopic family members and friends of the deceased would argue the broader context of that single issue, in the aftermath of the content it brings upon them for the rest of their lives.
By Rage Against The Machine
April 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
20 minutes until I leave for work. Mr. Smith I feel sorry for you. Life is too short to be this bitter. While you are ranting and typing there will be Firefighters, Deputies, and Police Officers out there actually working in an environment you know absolutely nothing about. Like I said you may have numbers and dates but you are truly clueless to the reality of this issue.
Cindy, I believe that there are two kinds of people in this world. Those that do and those who complain that stuff is not getting done.
Garryowen
By Rage Against The Machine
April 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Mr. Smith. I owe you an apology. I posted out of anger. I also have seemed to blur the line between public servant and private citizen. We are both passionate about our beliefs and I should have left it at that. I work for you Sir. Please except my apology and know that I do not wish you any ill will I am permenantly retiring from Cyberspace. It is not safe for me to be here.
Garry owen
By Cindy
April 22, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Michael, I’ve spent today, mulling it over inside my head (amidst doing my job, of course). As a person…for some weird reason, I’ve liked you since the first time I read your words…despite your negativity. It’s like I saw through all of that, down to your intelligence and caring nature. After all, if you didn’t care…you wouldn’t educate yourself on the matters of which you discuss.
I get that. Completely.
I’ll clue you in…I totally get all of what you say. Always have. Agree with it? Not usually. Some of it, though, yep, sure do.
Yesterday, what I had hoped for, was that you would recount what you’ve said in the past, then realize that with what’s happening now, you can let go of some of your anger and give it a little time to see some results.
As far as your statement about Conway being sooooo civic minded and not taking action earlier…are you saying to me that because we haven’t done something before, we never should? If that was the case, I would not know today that I love collard greens. I always thought they were ugly, then one day I sneaked and tasted them, because if they made me puke or something, I didn’t want anybody to know…and I sure as heck didn’t want anyone to see me fail at liking them. That’s my own personal little story…but use it as an analogy type thing.
After all you know what Lynyrd Skynrd says? Something to the effect of “I’ll try anything once, things I like, I’ll try twice.”
By Bruce Wilcox
April 23, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
Mr. Smith I have to disagree with one of your statements, “Only a people few have benefited, most have been negatively impacted.”, the largest contractor with the county had the ‘Hire No Illegal’ back on the table before anyone knew it was passed. But it did save us hundreds of thousands of dollars of consulants fees to explain how to operate the program the commissioner designed.
As far as the Sheriff, too bad, stop playing politic’s and do the job you were elected to. On the news tonight was a story that the city of Atlanta may cut some firefighters to save money. Do you think the Fire Chief will tell the Mayor he’ll only put out half a house or save half the people unless he get’s his firefighters back? Course not, protest, picket, get the media involved, but you always do your job.
There are MANY Latino’s that are legal, there are many above board and honest that are illegal, but they’re still decent human beings. This is an issue Mr. Smith and I will always disagree on, what I do agree with, is that ANY illegal locked up for ANYTHING gets deported.
I am honored to agree or disagree with such a fine gathering.
Láech cach fer co forragar
By Michael H. Smith
April 23, 2008 3:05 AM | Link to this
You got the wrong read Cindy. We should be doing everything possible to remove every illegal alien. The point is this: If Buthcy didn’t care before now, I hold no hopes that he will take anymore concern going forward. He will probably just go through the motions, put on a little show (maybe) to keep the natives from becoming restless but as far as aggressively pursuing 287g, it won’t happen. It hasn’t in 12 years and I don’t think it ever will with Butchy.
By the way don’t be fooled by this alot are legal, because alot are illegal too. I’ve seen work crews often of thirty guys or more at times(mostly Mexican) where only two men where legally authorized to live and work in this country.
Anger Cindy? Nah, I’ll forgive your Obama moment, try indignation. Anger can be wrong, indignation never is and if you think that is conceit on my part… tell you what you do, look into the eyes of a woman bound to a wheelchair for the rest of her life whose son was killed in the same car wreck that put her in hell on this earth, her son in a coffin, caused a drunk driving illegal alien, then tell me all you feel is angry. Or , think about a two year old baby girl raped by an illegal alien in Alma, Georgia. I hope I never have to look in her mother’s eyes. In both these cases the illegal aliens had brushes with the law previously. Had they been removed then, very likely none of this would ever have happened. Is all you feel right now, bitterness or is it a “righteous anger”, Cindy?
We must put an end to catch and release, wink n nod, don’t ask , don’t tell and U.S. Senators are going to have to stop making phone calls to stop I.C.E. from doing their job no matter who it scares, Saxby Chambliss. If every burger joint in this county closes DA Porter because we shipped all the illegals back home… so be it! Oh and Senator Balfour don’t fret about the beans gettin’ picked or the cotton gettin’ chopped, the houses will get built eventually by some fat lazy cantankerous over paid pick’em-up-truck-drivin’ Amuricun who eats regularly at the Waffle House. I don’t know Chief Dean if thinking the way I do will ever change about the way the law should work but doesn’t. Well if it does, I’ll probably retire too. But, until then, indignation will not allow it. Commerce at any cost is simply too high a price to pay, for cheap.
If we do not allow the illegal aliens to remain here in the first place, they will never have the criminal opportunity of a second place in this country to commit another crime.
By jimelyyes
May 3, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
there is the professional world of warcraft power leveling here. welcome.
By jimelyyes
May 11, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
there is the professional world of warcraft power leveling here. welcome.
By jimelyyes
May 13, 2008 5:14 AM | Link to this
there is the professional world of warcraft power leveling here. welcome.
By Desiree
March 4, 2009 7:05 PM | Link to this
LT5000,
So, do you mean that you would love for even citizens to suck up your money? How about everyone get off WIC and free healthcare, get an education and make an honest living?!! It’s sad to say that alot of Americans don’t work, don’t like to work, live off someone, on drugs, and the sad list goes on. On the other hand, immigrants have ALWAYS been willing to do jobs that Americans have chosen not to. I have not met a “lazy” immigrant.