Home > Norcross.Talk > Archives > 2008 > March > 10 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USToo many dumb laws on the books
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
One of the greatest gifts the Founding Fathers bestowed upon this great nation was to give some legislative independence to its member states.
Unfortunately for us, if dumblaws.com is any indication, the states may have gotten a little carried away with that power.
Georgia, for example, apparently has a law that prohibits profanity in front of a dead body in a funeral home or coroner’s office. State officials also apparently get a pass from being ticketed for speeding when they are in session, and I’m sorry but you’re just not allowed to carry an ice cream cone in your back pocket either… on Sunday.
There didn’t appear to be any specific references of dumb laws for Gwinnett County or any of its cities but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were plenty.
For all the dumb laws we have to abide to, there are two in particular that I feel should be near the top of the list.
The first is the Sunday alcohol sales ban, which back in 2006, is a subject I touched on when the voters of Winder and Norcross said yes to allowing Sunday alcohol sales by the drink. I still believe that Georgia’s Blue Law is just as ridiculous today, and apparently 47,146 fellow Georgians (well 47,147 now that I signed) agree with me that have signed a petition ask the state legislature to repeal the ban.
You can see (and sign) the petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/GASB138/petition.html.
This ban should be repealed not because neither I nor anyone else can remember to stock up by Saturday evening, but because it was enacted to kiss up to constituents of one particular faith. I hold a pretty strong position on the separation of church and state at all levels of government.
This week proves that Arizona, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have a bit more commonsense than the rest of the nation as we observe another dumb law - Daylight Saving Time.
Even after reading an article on the history of the time change on NationalGeographic.com, I still hold out a whole lotta doubt that it has any usefulness even though the article quotes Bill Mosley of the U.S. Department of Transportation on studies that the time change may conserve energy, reduce traffic accidents and fatalities, and even crime.
While those are certainly important to me, I remain skeptical that the time change has any real impact on them. Maybe I’ll put that to the test this year here in Gwinnett and report back on that later in the year.
Are you as ready to repeal these dumb laws as I am?
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By Katie
March 11, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this
I’m with you Woody. I highly doubt that a dead body would care what anyone would say around him/her—they’re dead. Who cares what you carry in your back pocket on Sunday. Did you also read that it is illegal for a chicken to cross the road? I wonder if the chickens know that. Finally, I highly doubt the time change will reduce traffic accidents, fatalities and crime. What stupid moron would actually believe that. I believe that website also says something about it being illegal to have a donkey in your bathtub??
By Mark
March 11, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
The blue laws simply show the ignorance of the god fearing right. And they still haven’t changed.
By PoliticalMan
March 11, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
What is most incredible is that ban of alcohol sales on Sunday could withstand a court challenge. If alchohol is harmful on Sun, it is harmful every other day. Furthermore, such a ban probably increases driving under the influence, due to restaurant sales on Sun. I would like to see the legal justification for the ban. I make the assumption that this is just another case of judges catering to special interests.
By LT5000
March 11, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
I propose a new law that prevents Woody from writing these asinine columns.
These laws mean nothing, just like our immigration laws that Butchie refuses to enforce.
Personally, I could care less if they sell booze on Sunday or not. What’s the big deal? Just go to a bar or stock up on Saturday.
If you aren’t organized enough to buy booze on Saturday for Sunday, I would hate to see your personal finances.
LT5000
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 11, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
Please do some research before you comment on things you know nothing about. Day Light Savings Time is an incredible idea that saves lives and energy. Why don’t you retire and quit writing? You suck.
By jay
March 11, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Too may dumb writers on the blogs.
By OTOH
March 12, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Not only way too many dumb laws; way too many laws period. I want a Repeal Party. I want to get rid of all the laws which ban adults from doing things which do not harm others. Let Freedom Ring!
By PoliticalMan
March 12, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this
The basis for banning behavior or activities should be public health or safety. If an activity is not inherently unhealthy or unsafe, it makes no sense to ban the purchase of items for those activities.
Cigatette smoking is a public health issue and is now banned in public places. But even then we still allow the purchase of cigarettes for private use on all days of the week.
The use of alcohol can be harmful - like many things - and that is why we set limits for its consumption in public on all days of the week. No where in any of this is there the remotest justification for banning its sale on Sunday.
A thought question. Shouldn’t an admitted atheist be allowed to purchase alcohol on Sunday. They are beyond the help of religious zealots and certainly are not violating the standards of their personal god, since they don’t have one.
By Mark
March 12, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
“A thought question. Shouldn’t an admitted atheist be allowed to purchase alcohol on Sunday. They are beyond the help of religious zealots and certainly are not violating the standards of their personal god, since they don’t have one.”
Great point!!!
By T.
March 12, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Regarding alcohol on Sunday: There is absolutely no reason to ban alcohol sales on Sunday ever, but especially in today’s economy. When Jesus performed his miracle at Cana, turning water to wine, he did it because there was a need for the wine and no availability. He performed a MIRACLE to make it happen! The Sunday ban is ridiculous. Thanks, Woody for highlighting this.
By woodys mom
March 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
i for one am for doing away with daylight savings time.. it was first enacted i believe for farmers to have more morning time to get their chores done.. at least thats what i was to believe all these 50 some odd years. i have lived in az where they dont do daylight savings time.. its great. you dont have to adjust your sleeping.. worry about the kids adjustng for the new time and have to get up for school.. you have more time in evening as you have more daylight after work.. as for crime.. people are going to do crimes no matter what time it is..
By woodys mom
March 12, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
i for one am for doing away with daylight savings time.. it was first enacted i believe for farmers to have more morning time to get their chores done.. at least thats what i was to believe all these 50 some odd years. i have lived in az where they dont do daylight savings time.. its great. you dont have to adjust your sleeping.. worry about the kids adjustng for the new time and have to get up for school.. you have more time in evening as you have more daylight after work.. as for crime.. people are going to do crimes no matter what time it is..
By LT5000
March 13, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
I see Woody’s mother is as stupid as her son.
Daylight savings was instituted in America during WW1, to conserve energy for war production. The concept has been around for 100’s of years though.
LT5000
By Tom
March 13, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
As a constituent of one particular faith I feel that the ban on alcohol sales on Sunday should continue.
Just stock up on Saturday if you feel the need to booze it up on the sabbath.
By PoliticalMan
March 13, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Tom,
I am a member of the Can’t Stand the Sight of Flab church. I would ban buying food seven days a week, but since I can’t do that, I will push for not buying food on Sunday. You won’t mind stocking up on Sat for your ice cream on Sun. If you forget, or if you eat it on Sat and want more on Sunday, too bad. You do appreciate my position, right?
By PoliticalMan
March 13, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Just saw our idiotic gov on the news comparing buying beer on Sunday to endorsing prostitution. Say what? All that praying has introduced dementia. Last time I checked, prostutiuon is illegal 24/7. Buying & drinking beer is not illegal. It’s only the holier than thou crowd that prevents me from buying beer on Sunday. Of course, when business is involved, like ballgames or restaurants, then booze is okay with the holy rollers. Got that. I would hate to be a neuron in that guy’s brain with all the flipflopping.
By Katie
March 14, 2008 5:56 AM | Link to this
Not allowing alcohol to be sold on Sunday is the last thing the bible thumpers can hang on to and control—but not for long. Their arguments are poor ones. Sonny doesn’t want us to vote on it because he knows he’s way out numbered. Seems to me he’s crying like a little boy who just got his ball stolen on the play ground.
For me it’s just another example of how backwards Georgia really is. It’s not 1808 or even 1908, it’s 2008. Put the bible down and use those last remaining free thinking cells you hopefully still have.
By Michael H. Smith
March 16, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Here is an interesting statement from our Governor, Woodrow. I’d like to hear what you think of it.
“We live in a republic, and the people of Georgia send us here to make decisions. I’m very concerned about a lot of the efforts I hear this year, about ‘Well, we’ll just let people vote on it.’ I mean, do we want to let the people vote to choose to allow prostitution and those kinds of things? Where are we going to draw the line?”
Just in case the emotional part of issues take prominence over the substance of what raises my ire, I want to do a little bit of slice and dice, a bit of re-editing to this statement that I think will explain why we have some really dumb laws and even dumber politicians, which, we will probably never get rid of due to a systematic design flaw rooted in the very foundation of the republic, which allows entrenched power to withhold the all-correcting invisible hand.
~
The people of Georgia send us here to make decisions. I mean, do we want to let the people vote to choose? Where are we going to draw the line?
~
I think this goes to the heart of your blog topic Woodrow, though, you never brought it up by name: Ballot Initiative.
As many know or shortly will know if they read this, we citizens in Georgia do not have what is called “ballot access” (That has to be granted to we inept little mortal voters by the “omniscient gods” from beneath the Gold Dome).
Now, the Governor has some of this thing right and I believe he also has some of this thing wrong. We do in fact elect representatives to write our laws, because admittedly none of us or few of us have the time or inclination to vote every time money is to be appropriated or a law needs passing or repealing. But, there is another side to this “representative republic” that politicians really do not want brought up and it is found in the Declaration of Independence:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
We the People retain the right, not only the right, but it is our DUTY said Mr. Jefferson and Company to throw off or overthrow government of absolute despotism!
I fully realize that it is ludicrous to even suggest that to deny Sunday sells of alcohol is absolute despotism. However, to deny the people of what is their right to vote on anything that they find egregious, on anything ignored they find insufferable and any continuum of rebuke to their cries in redress, then my friend if despotism is not absolute, assuredly it is resolute.
To our Governor and others of like-minded-ilk now in power, you do not have the authority to “let me vote to choose” that is a “human right”, an unalienable right and the very thing that gave birth to this country.
Yes indeed we send representatives to make decisions on our behalf in our absence. However, we never sent little gods to tell us that we cannot be trusted “to vote to choose”.
It is time to amend the state constitution and restore the right of the people “to vote to choose” through ballot initiative and referendum.
“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
Ben Franklin
PS. I do humbly request your reply to these expressed thoughts, Mr. Bass.
Where are we, going to draw the line?
What have we got - a Republic or a Oligarchy?
By Woody Bass
March 16, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Michael We are without a doubt a Republic… and I am not even suggesting the issue come up for vote. Its a dumb law that appeals to one particular group that should have never been allowed in the first place.
By Michael H. Smith
March 16, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Why not suggest this issue or any other issue come up for a vote that as you say, “is a dumb law that appeals to one particular group that should have never been allowed in the first place”?
That is the very purpose of ballet initiatives, which is to right the wrongs forced upon all of us, by one particular group of entrenched power, that runs contrary to the will of “We the People”.
I’m persuaded, Woodrow, that something strange tends to happen to people once they are entrusted with power. As many would say, “it goes to their heads”. As Lincoln said, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I make no bones about this Woodrow; I am repulsed by people elected to office, that even when my religious beliefs and theirs concur, purvey the attitude expressed in the cited words of a pompous Sonny Purdue.
No one of us, not even a select few of us, religious or otherwise, is smarter, wiser or nobler than all of us.
By Cher
March 18, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this
I have always been against daylight savings time because I’m not a golfer-they seem to be the only ones who benefit from that. Now that I’ve started hiking I really hate it because if you try to hike much before 8 a.m this time of year, you’re in the dark! But there aren’t as many hikers as golfers in the US so that’s why it got passed.
I am also appalled that in this day and age there are still a couple of states including GA that ban Sunday liquor sales. I moved here from up north for the weather and the people seem pretty with-it and in the 21st century except for a few-including the governor!
By Tim
March 18, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this
Katie:
Perhaps you shold think about picking the Bible up —and reading it.
I’m always astonished at those who are so argumentative and standoffish towards basic moral responsibilities or Christian beliefs in general. If people like Katie had her way this country would be on the fast track to moral decay.
Thankfully there are people around willing to stand up for what is right —despite the wishes of individuals like Katie who wish to do things thier own way and thump their nose at the rights and beliefs of people such as myself.
By Sanjeev
March 18, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Tom - I guess you are not familiar with the concept of separation of church and state. You do realize that 67% of the world don’t share your religious beliefs?
By Sanjeev
March 18, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Tom - I guess you are not familiar with the concept of separation of church and state. You do realize that 67% of the world doesn’t share your religious beliefs? Again I repeat - separation of church and state.
Do you suggest we ban all alcohol sales?
By Katie
March 18, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
Tim, I have read the bible, twice—it’s a nice story and that’s all it is, a story. So what’s your point?
By Katie
March 18, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Oh, I forgot Tim. You’re absolutely right, I do things the way I want to—and I obey the laws. However, I do not try to change the way others would like to live their lives—such as what you are doing. If you’d prefer not to buy alcohol on Sunday, then don’t. But who the heck are you to say what I should or shouldn’t be able to buy? What right do you have to control what others do? Mind your own damn business, pray where you want to—preferably in your church or the privacy of your home but leave the rest of us law abiding citizens alone.
By PoliticalMan
March 18, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
There is no doubt that Christians are not more moral than any other grouping of people; they are on the other hand persuaded that they are more holy than their neighbors. Personally you can have your morality; I’m more interested in your ethics arrived at by thinking, not dictated from some obscure, other-worldly force.
Banning alcohol sales is totally obnoxious. Why not ban something actually harmful like cigarettes or gas guzzling Hummers. If your high and mighty morality is completely devoid of common sense, what good is it? Is God some sort of capricious dictator like Stalin? It almost seems so.
By Um
March 19, 2008 5:46 AM | Link to this
Alcohol isn’t harmful? Okay….. Besides that, there are many things that are unhealthy. That doesn’t mean that we ban sales on particular days to suit the ‘holier than thou’ group.
psst. Alcohol kills more people than cigarettes—look it up.
By PoliticalMan
March 19, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
Alcohol in moderation is not inherently harmful. Quite to the contrary. Both beer and red wine have a positive impact on blood fats. If used excessively, then it is harmful. But that is another issue. Many things and actions are harmful when carried to the extreme. We don’t legislate against basic use of those things that are not inherently harmful. Or at least we shouldn’t.
On the other hand, smoking one cigarette is harmful. One or two beers a day forever do no harm. Not so with cigarettes. I doubt very seriously that between heart disease and cancer that alcohol kills more than cigarettes.
By Um
March 19, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Alcohol, even in moderation, contributes to liver disease and diabetes in lab rats. Wine has been proven to be good for you, in small amounts, but beer has not be shown to have similar effects. We can talk apples and bananas all day but it doesn’t change the fact that what we’re really talking about is the Sunday alcohol sales being just plain dumb. It’s stupid to ban the sale of alcohol simply because you feel, religiously, it’s wrong. It’s not all about you (the bible thumpers) and what you (the bible thumpers) want.
By Mark
March 19, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Having some illiterate buybull thumping lemmings who believe in a magical man in the sky telling me when I can or can’t buy alcohol is simply wrong in so many ways. Jesus freaks - Stay out of the thinking mans way.
By Exador
March 19, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
You can get a bazillion signatures and it won’t change a thing. Sonny will not change his mind about the veto. He is on a jihad!
By JH
March 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
By Tom “As a constituent of one particular faith I feel that the ban on alcohol sales on Sunday should continue.
Just stock up on Saturday if you feel the need to booze it up on the sabbath.”
Isn’t Saturday the Sabbath?
By Um
March 20, 2008 5:40 AM | Link to this
The majority of us aren’t religious and the Sabbath, no matter what day it’s on, doesn’t mean a thing. Get it?
By Cindy
March 20, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
Woody, are you ok bud? Been checking back daily but no new blog…
By Tom
March 20, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Pray in my home or my church? Uh —Katie, what right do YOU have to control WHERE I choose to pray?
BTW- The Bible is NOT a story —doesn’t matter what you choose to believe.
By Katie
March 20, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
I said preferably. I don’t have a choice but I can make a suggestion—which is what I did. Learn to read better, you misread my post.
By norcross
March 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Katie,
are you clover on the city web site.
By Katie
March 20, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
What is clover on the city website? I don’t think I am.
By norcross
March 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
I notice you said you are a frequent “blogger” on the city website. Just wanted to know what your name was.
Clover is one of the most frequent posters on the site.
By Katie
March 21, 2008 5:37 AM | Link to this
No, not me. Different Katie perhaps.
By Mark
March 21, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Tom
The buybull IS a story. It’s as much a fairy tale as is Mother goose. Only difference is children grow up, and realize that Mother Goose is a fairy tale. Illiterate lemmings such as yourself still believe in a fairy tale in adulthood. Keep your voodoo in your church, or at home. Leave the public display of ignorance to our president.
By Michael H. Smith
March 21, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
I’m still following the comments Woodrow, are you?
Where some continue to attack this subject as an issue of morays, one particular comment goes to “the underlying principle” of this emotional debate:
By Exador You can get a bazillion signatures and it won’t change a thing. Sonny will not change his mind about the veto. He is on a jihad!
I think this draws the parallel between your approach and mine, in regards to changing what you have termed “dumb laws”. Your approach of petitioning in redress is not very effectual. As Exador correctly points out, “You can get a bazillion signatures and it won’t change a thing”. Clearly, a bazillion signatures is the will of “We the People” speaking. However, as I pointed out before, without access to the ballot to pass directly into law, a reform or repeal, the entire voting population of Georgia may as well be non-existent, when any small group of entrenched power (an Oligarchy) has absolute control over what is the law and what shall become the law. The process of “petitioning in redress” may take years if ever to right the course, and then it usually means a removal of the entrenched power has taken place. So, in reality it would take several election cycles before you could ever, if ever, bring about the positive change you desire. The words of Ben Franklin should resound all the more clearly. We have a Republic, if we can keep it.
Now, taking the approach I’ve suggested, of ballot initiative and referendum (in keeping that Republic), if you can get a bazillion signatures the issue is placed on the ballot, then the voice and will of “We the People” becomes the law, immediately.
I remain a firm believer in many of the things Teddy Roosevelt advocated. Ballot initiative and referendum was one of them. My confidence remains in the American people, not in the American politicians. For in America, “ordinary people” do very extraordinary things that continue to amaze the world.