Norcross.Talk

By Bill Strong

June 17, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this

By Bruce Wilcox

June 17, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

When the Bush/McCain/Kennedy Immigration bill passes this summer all these feel good local laws will be rendered moot. It will be interesting to see how many would actually inconvenience themselves to voice their opinion against another human attempting to better themselves.

If only their was so much passion over an illegal war based on false pretenses.

By LT5000

June 17, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

I have personally called Chambliss and Issackson’s offices and told them that I would work to have them replaced if they even considered voting for this bill.

As for blaming businesses, I believe you are half correct. However, our border should be secure enough, so that these people can never get in to work in the first place. Now that they are in, the INS should be conducting raids and deporting.

The fact that law enforcement cannot check someone’s immigration status after they have been arrested is ludicrous.

And Bruce. Illegal war, false pretenses…. Give it a break. There is nothing more pathetic than a male Cindy Sheehan wannabe. Get a life.

LT5000

By Bruce Wilcox

June 17, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

The LT5000 name gives you away as nothing more than a talk-radio robot. Let me know when the WMD’s are found will you.

I think it is far more pathetic to be worrying about illegals when our troops are dying in a incompetently run war.

And what’s the old saying, “Closing the barn door after the cow is gone”, there are 12 million on this side of the fence and no one has presented a plan or the cost of sending them home.

How’s your friend WD40?

By BobG

June 17, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

Bruce, there doesn’t have to be a new plan to solve the problem. Simply (and aggressively) enforce current law and we will see a self-imposed, self-financed exodus of those in this country illegally.

Aggressively prosecute businesses and individuals who hire illegals (using current law). Eliminate all government benefits and services for illegals. The only substantial law change required will be to eliminate the “anchor baby” benefit.

Illegals will go home on their own when there is no longer a financial benefit to being here.

Get a backbone, Bruce. There’s nothing wrong or evil about requiring all to take responsibility for their own actions, good or bad.

Pro-amnesty folks argue that the alternative to the current amnesty bill is “do nothing.” That’s a “straw man” argument that they use because they can’t disprove or dispute the effectiveness of “attrition through enforcement.”

By Bruce Wilcox

June 17, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this

There is nothing simple about it, it is naive to believe it is. Local government police agencies cannot, the INS is too small right now to handle the workload they have? What is the penalty for hiring an illegal? Will it pay for the court system that has to prove you knowingly hired an illegal? Where do we house all those awaiting deportation? We do not have enough boarder patrol agents, how many more will be hired, how high can you make a fence, how do you patrol the waters?

A self-imposed, self-financed exodus, are you dreaming? An exodus to what, worse conditions than we could ever make it here?

We have an unemployment rate of less than five percent, whose jobs are they taking? Property taxes pay for the majority of the services, where ever they live someone is paying taxes on the property.

We have destroyed the country of Iraq, thousands of real everyday people die every month because of one man’s decision to invade Iraq. Our soldiers die everyday in the wrong country because the one who started it all, bin Laden, sits on the Pakistan/Afghanistan boarder, our allies.

You know the expression, “Don’t sweat the small stuff”, compared to Iraq, immigration is small stuff. Sad some are so petty they cannot see farther than the county line.

By Michael H. Smith

June 17, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Anybody want a donut?

From Lou Dobbs:

Dunkin’ Donuts is setting an example that corporate America should be following: it’s intensifying the company’s efforts to make sure its franchises do not hire illegal aliens.

Dunkin’ Donuts is suing two of its franchises in New Jersey for deliberately hiring illegal aliens and now the company wants to terminate the franchise agreements. The New Jersey Star-Ledger says the stores in question knowingly accepted false documents, false social security numbers, and paid employees in cash.

Dunkin’ Donuts in a statement to CNN said:

(Stephen Horn, chief legal officer for Dunkin’ Brands)

“As of June 1, 2006 Dunkin’ Brands has required all franchisees to use the Basic Pilot Program to ensure that new hires are legally authorized to work. We believe this is the right thing to do for our franchisees.”

The Basic Pilot Program is a voluntary program by the Department of Homeland Security that allows companies to verify that employees are eligible to work.

Dunkin’ Donuts also wants to sever ties with franchises in Boston, Atlanta and Florida for their hiring of illegal immigrants. Dunkin’ Donuts has more than five thousand locations in the United States.

By Pam

June 17, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Bruce, you are right we have bigger things to worry about. But if we allow illegal immigrants in…..we are also allowing in other illegals. To me the Iraq war is like Vietnam War…..it is all political. But we have to start somewhere.

By Marge

June 17, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

Rarely mentioned but obvious in my circles is that individual citizens can do a lot. Every time they hire a contractor to work on their home, ask them if they use American workers. I started doing this after realizing that many contractors came and gave estimates and then sent over “immigrants” who did not speak my language when they were given the job. Now, I don’t waste anyone’s time and send a clear signal the first time I call or respond to a request for my business. I hear the sales pitch, then I ask, “Do you use American workers”. It is amazing how they all know what I mean without my needing to say much more. When they say all of their workers have proper “papers”, I move on. I further my comments by saying, I only want to support American business that hire American citizen workers. At this point, I don’t care about who may or may not have visas or other work papers. I do not need to apologize for wanting to support American businesses who supply workers who speak my language. I want to be able to speak to the workers who come to my home and feel comfortable about it. If we boycott businesses who use illegal labor and tell them why, that will mean a lot. Start supporting businesses who screen their labor pool and know they are Americans. Here is one source: Link:Legal American Workers

By Purchaser

June 17, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

Marge GREAT ADVICE!!!

I am in purchasing, and I will start asking about American workers when looking for new vendors….and I think I’ll contact my current vendors too and ask them. Thank you….

By LB

June 17, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

I agree with Marge. We who blog regularly should screen everybody we hire. I also agree with a poster last week who said he/she went to a sandwich shop and asked the owner if his staff was legal. He/she mentioned that the people in question had a stunned look about them. We need to ban together in Gwinnett and do these type of things. Speak with our lips and strike in the pocketbook.

Thanks Woody for your expertise. You are right, we need to show up like a freshly kicked ant hill on the capitol steps. After all, the illegals all show up to demand their “rights”????? Unfortunately, this would be effective M-F 9-5 when most of us work. We need to learn a lesson from the American Black population who peacefully marched along with MLK. They got results.

Other than massive amounts of people protesting and marching, we as individuals can use the blog Marge and the blogger last week gave us and screen businesses. If we can’t be assured of American workers 100% we, as individuals, take out wallets to a company who respects us as Americans. After all, numerous men and women gave their lives in different wars for these freedoms. Why let the squatters have so much control. It won’t take long for them to pack up and leave if there are no $$$$$ for them.

By Michael H. Smith

June 17, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

Del Monte immigration raid highlights problems

By Ahmed ElAmin 14/06/2007- An immigration raid this week on a Fresh Del Monte Produce processing plant indicates that federal officials are continuing their campaign to crack down on the industry’s use of illegal labour.

In a statement Del Monte confirmed that the raid of its Portland, Oregon plant on 12 June and claimed it “has been advised” that it is not a current target of the investigation.

The raid and subsequent arrests of 170 employees shows the dangers of using a third-part firm to staff food production facilities. The food sector is one of the largest users of temporary labor and has been a particular target of similar crackdowns on illegal labor.

Recent raids on Tyson, Swift & Co. and Smithfield have highlighted the problem in the industry.

In the Fresh Del Monte raid federal agents also searched two Portland offices of American Staffing Resources, the company that hired workers for the processor, the company stated. About 170 employees were taken into custody and more arrests are likely, according to a statement by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

>

I’ve avoided buying any Tyson Food products after finding them out and the others as well. Now the list has grown by one more company whose products I will no longer purchase.

Tyson

No mas Taco Bell

Swift & Co.

Smithfield

Del Monte

I avoid eating out at all fast food restaurants now too.

We may not be able to get all of these businesses but if they catch on to the fact that they are being targeted and boycotted us, they will get the message and the others soon will as well.

Congress and George Bush cannot force us to give these people an amnesty!

By Paul the American

June 17, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

During an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Michael Chertoff and a Senator (I don’t remember which one) were asked why immigration was being addressed now and with such urgency. They replied that since local and state governments were passing laws and ordinances that were tough on ILLEGALS (cheap labor) big business wanted them legalized quickly.

By Paul the American

June 17, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

During an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Michael Chertoff and a Senator (I don’t remember which one) were asked why immigration was being addressed now and with such urgency. They replied that since local and state governments were passing laws and ordinances that were tough on ILLEGALS (cheap labor) big business wanted them legalized quickly.

By cohen

June 18, 2007 12:29 AM | Link to this

Yet another Billy Bobb in action. The immigration debate will be better served(and solved) if we deport him, alongside Tancredo, Sessions and Lou Dobbs. Congress MUST pass immigration reform NOW. America of today is NOT America of the 1950s. One in three LEGAL Americans today is a minority(black, Latino, Asian, etc.) So when I read “the American people” oppose immigration, I answer: well, if it was up to those same people, “separate but equal” will still be in place and the south should have won the Civil War. Say NO to racism and pass the immigration reform. These people are humans first and illegal immigrants second!

By Katie

June 18, 2007 7:27 AM | Link to this

Why can’t police departments check the status of arrested individuals? If they are illegal they do not have the same rights as citizens; if a mistake is made it can be followed up by an apology. I would think the people that are hitting the streets the most (i.e. police) should get the most power when it comes to removing illegals from our cities.

By LT5000

June 18, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Brucie,

I suggest you pick up Miniter’s book, I can even help you with the big words.

Found: 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

• Found: 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons

• Found: Roadside bomb loaded with sarin gas

• Found: 1,000 radioactive materials—ideal for radioactive dirty bombs

• Found: 17 chemical warheads—some containing cyclosarin, a nerve agent five times more powerful than sarin

The rest was undoubtedly moved out by the Russians into Syria

The people being killed in Iraq aren’t being killed by the USA, contrary to what you and Rosie think. It’s foreign based insurgents who hate America. Yes, even you Brucie.

Time to Zip up your pants, take down your Che Guvera poster and welcome yourself to the real world.

As for the illegals issue, Georgia has been very pro-active. Come July 1st we should see some real action. If Georgia can show the rest of the states how it’s done, I think other states will wake up, except Massachusetts.

I don’t mind immigration to the USA, just do it legally. Is that too much to ask.

By crystal

June 18, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

Also put Boston Market on the boycott list, they get their chicken from Tyson Foods.

How about grocery stores having to list fruits and vegetables if they are “legally harvested.”

And let’s try to keep the blog on the issue ILLEGAL let me repeat that ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL immigration. If you want to talk about Iraq, start a new blog please.

By crystal

June 18, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Bruce,

Do you actually think someone making “minimum wage” and living 10 people in one property tax paying house is paying enough in taxes to cover their services used? Gwinnett county alone spends $32.2 million dollars a school year just for ESOL.

I agree that the only ones benefitting hiring illegals are the companies that hire them. They are not passing the savings down to the consumers, but putting that extra money in their pockets. They are selling out the America people for their own greed. When any form of immigration reform is passed and if illegals have to end up paying a fine for violating our sovergnity, they should make the companies pay double to “re-hire” each and every “new legal worker”. Why are the illegal immigrants the only ones who have to pay for their crime but the corportations get off scott free?

By woodys mom

June 18, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

i want to thank those of you who have listed businesses that hire illegals.

i for one had no idea that these companies were still getting away with it. i dont know what the government is doing to these companies who hire illegals but i for one would like to see very stiff fines for hiring them. fines so high that it would not be cost effective for them to continue on the way they are. i for one will not buy or support such companies. i also think that everyone should forward this blog onto everyone they know so that they can read for themselves what companies are doing illegal hiring.. i for one will forward this on to everyone i know so that they can read for themselves about these companies..

By Rickie

June 18, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

I have been reading and following this immigration issue for quite some time and since I am an immigrant myself, did everything the legal and correct way in order to become a US citizen, you might understand that I am myself rather angry at everyone that is in this country illegal and receives wages illegal. As I was reading Marge’s blog I was being reminded that I am dealing with a company right now, that I know has foreign workers that don’t speak english and that I am not sure of are legally in this country. I had a privacy fence put up last november and there seems to be a few small issues with this, but everytime I have those issues addressed it’s a foreign worker being sent over and each time I am not satisfied with what I had initially wanted. What do I do??

By woodys mom

June 18, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

i want to thank those of you who have listed businesses that hire illegals.

i for one had no idea that these companies were still getting away with it. i dont know what the government is doing to these companies who hire illegals but i for one would like to see very stiff fines for hiring them. fines so high that it would not be cost effective for them to continue on the way they are. i for one will not buy or support such companies. i also think that everyone should forward this blog onto everyone they know so that they can read for themselves what companies are doing illegal hiring.. i for one will forward this on to everyone i know so that they can read for themselves about these companies..

By B

June 18, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Crystal wrote I agree that the only ones benefitting hiring illegals are the companies that hire them. Wrong! We do benefit. Imagine all of the illegal immigrants gone- then imagine the price of housing and everything else going through the roof. That’s what will happen. There’s many who support deporting all the illegals. Let me ask you this question “where are we going to come up with the money to do that?” Let’s face it illegals have been here for years and have provided us with cheap labor. The ones who should be deprted are the ones who commit crimes. Those who are working and making a better life for their families let them stay(There are lots of them). But I guess for those who are greedy and are afraid they may lose a few dollars will oppose this. Let’s close the borders on human trafficking, the drug trade, and terrorism no matter what country they are from!!!!

Also while I am at it Woodys Mom wrote i want to thank those of you who have listed businesses that hire illegals. You may want to check out the list before you email it. Just because you read it in a blog does not make it true.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 18, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

crystal, property taxes are not based on how many live in a house, the taxes remain the same. It’s the slumlords that make a killing, Gwinnett now has a unit that actually enforces code violations.

School taxes and illegals, I have mentioned this before, some of our smaller counties check to see if they are legal and live in the county. Plus you have to remember if a child is born in the United States he becomes a citizen at birth, his/her parents may be illegals they are not.

What I detest is the attack on the illegals themselves for just attempting to have a better life. Anyone worth their salt on this blog would do the same if faced with the conditions they face in their home countries.

Ninety percent of the laws attack the people and those who hire them get a slap on the wirst. Many of these companies write it off as the cost of business. And I said earlier the goverment has to prove you knowingly hired illegals.

Like Iraq, it is the common people who suffer the greatest, the politicans and business reap the benefits. On the bill, there are amendments to be added, entire sections will be removed, no one, not even Lou Dobbs, know what the final version will look like. So before storming the Bastille, at least know what you’re storming it for.

By Just saying, not agreeing with

June 18, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Are we going to start seeing signs in stores that say, “oranges, picked by Americans,” “coffee, not picked by Juan Valdez, but by Americans,” “lettuce, brought to you by Americans,” I think not. Most produce is harvested by immigrants. Until farmers pay laborers more money this trend will continue. If Americans pick produce then we buyers will be spending lots of money buying veggies, produce, milk and other such items. Who can afford to pay higher prices on healthy foods? Will that mean that only the rich can afford good, wholesome, healthy fresh food? What about the blue collar American families that are struggling where we are? I’m not saying I support illegal immigrants but this country relies on their cheap labor and have for many many generations. It’s easy to talk about removing them but I don’t see anyone writing about replacing them in the job force. Who will go and pick produce—your son or daughter? Who will work hard from sun up to sun down, making little money and not having enough money for a car, house or even medical care. It’s easy to say that if we pay more for these jobs people will work them—not true. If you say the farmers should pay more, or provide health care then what happens to the family farm? it gets taken over by large corporations. Where’s the American way? Where’s the mom and pop stores? Are we taking away something that is and always been an American way? Just saying.

By Smitty

June 18, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Ya’ll are idiots. I cannot believe anyone on this blog is actually supporting illegals rights. Well, if you WANT a better way of life EARN it. Don’t come here illegally, then demand your RIGHTS. You have no rights, you are a criminal.

Unfortunately our government doesn’t have the balls to do what needs to be done. Instead they want to be passive, and grant amnesty. Give me a break…..Get the illegals the h3ll out of MY country.

By Hunter

June 18, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

Very interesting how the word Illegal can be disregarded based on benefit. I for one welcome all immigrants as long as they are here legally.

Yes, we feel for the families trying to better themselves and carve out a living, but at who’s expense. Social Services, health care, education are all underfunded to support our citizens.

As for the salaries, yes I believe they would rise if all the illegal workers are deported. So what, if that is what the cost of doing business is then so be it..

Look at the low income areas and you will find American citizens struggling to make ends meet. I would much rather see our assistance go to these areas than to illegal’s.

By Anonymous

June 18, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

YOU folks may want to get rid of the illegal workforce keeping retail prices low and profit margins high… but since when has your opinion mattered to the actual leaders of the party you consistently vote for?

CEOs run the Republican party (and, to a distressing degree, the Democratic as well)—and they’re never gonna do anything about the undocumented, rights-free workforce they profit from. Every bill will be “amnesty,” no matter what they promise.

That is, until you actually have the courage to vote the corrupt scumballs OUT.

By American way

June 18, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

The American way is to buy cheap and make a profit selling. How do you change that when everything that comes with the American dream costs money. Most don’t want to know how they get things, just that they get them. There is no easy solution to our problems with illegal immigration. why do American companies send their products to other companies to manufacture? Nike, Chevy, Ford—you name the big companies and chances are part of what you purchase comes from China, mexico or India. why are we not boycotting these companies. Why can’t we keep everything American made?? why? because the labor in other countries is cheaper and Americans want to buy cheap. We want the best for our buck and most don’t care where their shoes are made or their cars. Simply the facts and more simply—look around you. Look at what your friends are wearing, driving, eating.

By LT5000

June 18, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

I see Bruce is pushing the old cunard that “Illegals are only coming here to make a better life for themselves”.

Unfortunately, the Gwinnett County Detention Center admissions says different. Feel free to check it out, many of the admissions are DUI’s, pubic drunkeness, drugs and vehicle accidents, I wouldn’t wager a nickel any of these people are legal. For even more egregious crimes, I would suggest americanpatrol.com.

Second, I’m sorry things are so miserable in their home countries. However, it is their responsibility, as citizens, to vote out the corruption that has destroyed their nations.

Just as it is our duty as citizens of this country to ensure our politician uphold the law. Hint hint, enforce the immigration laws.

By Stephanie

June 18, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

For those who think illegal aliens are helpful to our economy. Please do your homework. For every dollar they earn, they cost Americans three dollars. Less than 2% of illegal aliens here now are picking crops(yet produce prices keep rising and more and more are imported). If illegal aliens are now given legal status, their wages will immediately rise as they are only cheap when they can be exploited. That defeats the cheap labor theory. The just-reported Heritage study projects that the first 12 million illegal aliens will cost American taxpayers 2.6 trillion dollars in retirement/social security benefits. That is TRILLION with a “T”. No responsible policy maker can see that this tremendous societal cost to American taxpayers is worth cheap landscapers and dry-wallers. Just think, adding 12-30 million more with NO health insurance. Why would a nation want to add these to take care of? What a deal for America? Some think that $5000 is a high price to pay for a fine. How much do American taxpayers spend on each Anchor Baby? Five grand is a drop in the bucket. Cost of housing? Gee, lets see what would happen to the cost of housing if there were 12-30 million less people living in them. Let all the sham builders in the construction industry go out of business. The irony behind all of these businesses pushing for legalization is that these owners will soon go out of business. Again, people who become legal, will want to move up the food chain and not work for those that have exploited them. The current jobs are being grown through massive population influxes creating the demand for more goods and services, not through innovation. The whole world, including Americans, wants a better life. Most of us, however, have a conscience and follow the rules. The rules are in place and should be vigorously enforced. For those who support the “No Illegal Alien Left Behind” legislation, here is a place to put your illegal alien-hiring business: Link:We Hire Aliens

By John

June 18, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I also have written to both of our Senators and received an interesting response and a copy of a letter that they sent to the president. I wish there was enough space to include the letter. There is not doubt in my mind they both are very aware of the wishes of Georgians and share that desire to shut the borders first. I also posed this scenario to both of them as I do all who read this. If we were being invaded by Al Qaeda from any of our nation’s borders, would Congress be discussing a bill to determine what to with the influx of illegal immigrants or would Congress be taking steps to stop the invasion?

By Michael H. Smith

June 18, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

@ Katie - something you might like- Sanctuary cities may soon be thinking twice about their pro- illegal immigration position and their violation of U.S. law. An amendment that would cut homeland security funding for those sanctuary cities from New York to Los Angeles today passed in the House of Representatives with strong bipartisan support. That amendment proposed by Congressman Tom Tancredo, a presidential hopeful, would prevent sanctuary cities from receiving federal funds for first responders and other programs. From Lou Dobbs Tonight

@ LT 5000 – You know all the same arguments about cheap prices for goods and how you couldn’t afford to buy things without using illegal labor were just about the same arguments the aristocrats in the old south used to justify slavery.

How much did slavery wind-up costing this nation?

Why do I oppose this Bush Chambliss Isakson guest worker program, because it will produce “a separate but equal society” in this nation once again where men and women will be used as labor units then denied the uniform naturalization process used to create citizens.

Why do I oppose allowing the illegal aliens who are already here to remain: Because it will violate the uniformity clause mandated in article one section eight, which will make another “separate but equal society”, those who had to obey the immigration laws and those who were allowed to live above the immigration laws. Also, because it will show discrimination against the diversity of others who are awaiting or may have been denied entry, only to favor in preference an ethnic group of people from only one culture and one language.

Haitians fleeing for their lives amidst a civil uprising were told by Bush and his administration they could not immigrate to the U.S. because they were considered “economic refugees”. While thousands of those from Mexico who only wanted the “economic opportunity” to that better life, where given the old wink n’ nod and allowed to break into to this country. It is not America and we Americans who oppose your amnesty plan that fears a legal DIVERSITY Mr. Bush – it is you sir!

Funny LT how some of the people who claim to want to slow grow in development support fully the illegal labor force that made it all possible. If you want to control growth slow, growth, manage growth, then control illegal immigration and the wrongful use of legal immigration folks. that will do it where two more seats on the commission probably will not.

@ all others – somebody please make a list of companies that we can all agree on targeting for an economic boycott and write out what we demand from these companies in the way of compliance – I’m all in. Personally I feel they should follow the example set by Dunkin’ Donuts.

Thanks for the link LT, I went by that Website last night, it was interesting.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 18, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

LT5000 parroting the talking heads really does not help your case. If we deport all illegals all crime will magically disappear, right. I like this one, all they have to do is vote out the corruption in their home countries, heck we can not do that here!

LT5000 as far as the WMD’s when Bush’s own appointed super snooper could not find any the radio talking heads did?

Oh, and the insults LT5000, they weaken your case even more.

Stephanie, I’ll bet that research does not include how much Wal-Mart costs local communities because of their low pay and lack of benefits. Plus they are the nations biggest employer.

It comes down to Profit over People. How much more are you all willing to pay in taxes to enforce the laws? How much more will you be willing to pay for products and services? It’s having your cake and eating it to.

By Stephanie

June 18, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

To Bruce— the “No Illegal Alien Left Behind” advocate: Some of us still do put ethics and values over profits. Only those who keep their head in the sand don’t think there is a problem here— those who exploit others for profit while they have their retirement planned for a remote location where they don’t have to be exposed to the chaos they have created. They are called hypocrits. If you connect the dots, the increased price for goods and services, as you call it, will be negligible, compared with the illegal alien social costs. The data for 12 million aliens is over 2 TRILLION dollars. What part of the analysis do you not understand? You must see the facts and not just be singing kumbaya with Ted Kennedy and La Raza. Illegal aliens are uneducated, have no health insurance, utilize a higher percentage of social services and have a much higher incidence of infectious diseases. Do you care about Public Health or do you want to pretend that this has a trivial impact on society and our way of life? Its called Standards, and some of us still have them. Here is another link to help you understand the truth: Mexico Promotes Free U.S. Healthcare For Illegal Immigrants Maybe you can do some research on the facts stated here and come back with your own version of the truth.

By Michael H. Smith

June 18, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

Over blown claim about overblown prices. Markets adjust to economic conditions. Always have always will, provided they are not being manipulated, as now they are in over suppling labor, most of it cheap and illegal. While exporting every job that can be moved. Average blue collar worker wages have gone no where, while CEO wages have skyrocketed. Proof positive the market is being manipulated. As Warren Buffet said: This is class warfare, my(Warren Buffet’s) side is winning and it shouldn’t be.

By LB

June 18, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this

The thing that continues to baffle me is the power of Ted Kennedy. The United States has a President and Congress, not a Royal Family. This bill Ted is pushing totally discriminates against ALL Americans while it edifies breaking and entering from people who don’t think rules apply to them. Yet there are a certain large group of Americans who will kiss butt everytime Ted poops. These American people who will support what is wrong just because Ted is some sort of a god are partly to blame for this whole mess. Many of us write letters, boycott, make our petitions known and even march. I’m totally fed up with the majority of Americans that sit on their can and have a don’t rock the boat attitute. What a total disgrace to the US Flag and to the people who fought for our freedom. Some of the Americans who have never lifted a finger for our country need to wake up and start supporting America before their boat rocks to the point of another Titanic. America will sink if people don’t quit worshiping Ted and sit by doing nothing while others are trying to stop an avalanche with a sheet of cardboard. We need everybody to wake up, not just the bloggers here today. We all need to sent out emails to all our friends with the list of companies listed above. People, we can defeat this illegal situation but it will take all of us.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 18, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

This blaming Ted Kennedy for the Bill Bush wants and was up on The Hill begging for is funny, it is also co-sponsered by McCain. From 94’ till this year Republicans been in charge of congress, last year they proposed the laughable fence. Bush has been in for six and has been pushing for this Bill since day one, now Stephanie who’s the hypocrite?

Stephanie, ” Some of us still do put ethics and values over profits.” and just how many do you employ? Several have been kind enough to provide a list of some of our biggest companies that do not. Do you shop at Wal-Mart, I do not, I buy American.

There are forty million tax paying United States citizens that do not have health insurance, how do you plan on handling that, deport them?

As far as uneducated, only a little over 56% of Georgia students received a high school diploma, it is not because of illegals, it has always been this way.

Under the Bill 12 million more will be required to pay taxes, companies will be required to pay taxes, kind of destroys the argument that they’ll keep receiving freebies.

By Montezuma

June 18, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

Deporting us is wishful thinking. We are here to stay and transform this country forever, with our contributions to culture and society. More will keep coming. You see, it is dumb to try to apply an enforcement solution to a problem that is, in the first place, economic and of “human nature”. People will always try to improve their lot in life, that’s a God-given right. Ideally, people would stick to the law, but alas, here lies the problem, US immmigration law is totally disconnected from the reality of modern times. Globalization has created havoc in countries near and away, the NAFTA provides for free flow of goods, capital and yes, PEOPLE, too. You cannot have one without the other. So, here is my advice for all of you, whinning minds: Learn Spanish and go to your favorite Mexican restaurant this weekend. Viva Mexico!

By GB

June 18, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

We are all to blame for what has happened with “illegals” … we didn’t get to this point overnight. Where has everybody been the last 15-20 years as they have come pouring over the border. Washington has done nothing, those who use “illegals” have certainly done nothing and has sung the same ol’song over and over about how Americans won’t do the work. And, everybody else has sat around and done nothing and continue to do nothing. Oh, yea, send an e-mail here and send an e-mail there; call a representative or write a letter . . whatever!!! But, until we get up off our fannies and get out on the streets and raise our voices nothing will be done. Illegals should be treated like illegals. No preferential treatment … no print every document in Spanish. Stop catering to this illegal group of people.

By Michael H. Smith

June 18, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

@ John - More Americans die at the hands of criminal aliens every year than died on September 11, 2001 from the hands of Al Qaeda. According to Rep. Steve King (R- Iowa) speaking from the floor of the House, 4,000 Americans die each year at the hands of criminal aliens. (Live from Cspan)

Well, Senatas’ Chambliss and Isakson, 4,000 Americans killed by criminal aliens every year, a 1,000 more than Al Qaeda killed on 9/11.

We fight them over there, so we won’t have to fight them over here?

4,000 Americans killed every year Senatas’… year, afta year, afta year, killed, over here.

The Constitution of the United States Article 4 section 4

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Senators’ Chambliss and Isakson write the President another letter please, to re-appropriate and redirect $50 billion in funding from the Iraq war appropriations to fund and redeploy our troops to secure our border to fight the terrorists our government has allowed by dereliction of Constitutional duty to invade us, and kill 4,000 of us, every year over here.

By Michael H. Smith

June 19, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

Vacate NAFTA!

Word comes tonight that China plans to manufacture cars in Mexico to avoid paying a 25% tariff imposed on automobiles made in China. Under NAFTA China via Mexico, where the average minimum wage is less than five dollars a day, China and Mexico will gain a tremendous benefit at the cost of American jobs. The name of this company CHAMCO hopes to have Chinese vehicles in the American market by some time next year. And they say they’ve already secured dealership agreements to make that happen.

There is nothing free about Free Trade.

Please vote for candidates that have committed to “Fair Trade” policies.

By Indocumentado in Gwinnett

June 19, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

Which side of the fence are you Woody? You better watch it, this is Norcross, this is Gwinnett County, home of immigrants from all over the world. We might not vote, but our sond and daughters will. Within a few years we will dominate not only the political agenda, but we will hold office ourselves.

By Bill Wright II

June 19, 2007 3:59 AM | Link to this

If you entered the Country Illegally then you broke the law and should be sent back. Any children that were born here are also illegal, they were conceived by persons committing a crime.

By American way

June 19, 2007 5:56 AM | Link to this

LT500, so, you think they’re aren’t any whites in jail for DUI’s, public drunkedness or drugs??? You must be kidding me. There are far more whites in jails accross the country as there are hispanics. Of course Blacks take the cake when it comes to prison populations.

By American way

June 19, 2007 6:01 AM | Link to this

Indocumentado, we’re not worried about your “sonds or daughters” voting. They will be just as misinformed as you are and will never learn the English language because you make no effort to. Hopefully you will be pushed back under the fence you slid under to get here or thrown back into the water from where you swam from. And hopefully you’ll have two other illegals with you, tucked under each arm.

By Anonymous

June 19, 2007 7:43 AM | Link to this

Which is exactly why the Washington crowd will do nothing about them. Workers who have no rights, no vote, and who slave away for sub-minimum wages are the IDEAL for these jokers!

Don’t you get it? They prefer illegals. Illegal workers are much easier to exploit and control than actual citizens, and they keep corporate profits high. Nothing you or I do will have any effect, because Money Calls the Shots.

Welcome to America, immigrants. Here’s hoping you figure out how to fix the system better than we did.

By Chuck

June 19, 2007 7:48 AM | Link to this

My grandparents came here legally, having seen something better for themselves, and in doing so they integrated into society and lifted all of us up a notch. The hordes of illegal Mexicans, however, appear not to want to raise themselves up but rather to lower their surroundings down to the level of the Tijuana hovels from which they came. Let them find no work without citizenship and thus encourage them to return to where they came from.

By Reba

June 19, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

First, all criminals are just seeking a better life. The kid across the street was selling drugs was only trying to support his family. The kid down the street who stole money from the Quik Trip was only trying to make sure there was enough food in his house. The kid who burglarized four houses in our neighborhood only wanted to make sure there was enough money to feed all 15 people living in the 4 bedroom home. A sex offender is only trying to quell the demons living inside. The guy who was shoplifting filet mignons from my husband’s store was only trying to feed his starving children. A murderer is only trying to make his life better by removing someone who irritates him. So are we going to excuse all of these criminal activities because the criminal is only seeking a better life? Every single person feels justified in making the choices he makes, but we have to draw the line and stand firm.

As far as produce prices, we are already paying grossly inflated prices due to farm subsidies. I sent Chambliss an e-mail, asking him how he can justify his stance on needing illegals for farmers. From that letter: “My home county, Mitchell County (population less than 25,000), is a heavily agricultural area. In 2005, farmers in Mitchell County received $21,680,313 in farm subsidies. Will you please explain to me why you are taking money away from me to give to those farmers, and now you are taking jobs away from my children to give to illegal immigrants? The farmers can certainly afford to hire legal help with over $21 million in aid just in one year alone. I expect that if we are providing a welfare program to the farmers, the very least our elected officials can do for those of us who are paying that welfare is demand the farmers play by the rules of this country. That’s what it boils down to - you are rewarding farmers who break our laws by hiring illegals, and the criminals who break our laws by crossing our borders illegally. It’s all about the money, and unfortunately, it’s MY money. And the money of every other taxpayer who has to fork over an outrageous amount of federal tax dollars every single year.” I received a form letter back from him and of course, he did not address my concerns. FYI, Georgia farmers received $482,062,000 in farm subsidies in 2005. The top farm subsidy recipient was River Rock Farms in Camilla, with $2,939,519 in aid. Sounds like I need to go into farming!

By LT5000

June 19, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

Bruce,

I realize you want to gloss over the facts because they don’t fit your Marxist meme, but a quick read of the Duelfer report, will point out that Saddam was buying off our great friends in the UN and had every intention of restoring his weapons programs. These are facts, something your posts lack.

However, I realize you are one of those Al Gore Apple-Polishers that would never let the facts stand in his way.

As for the insults, that is all you deserve. Your asinine musings about “illegal wars” and the USA killing “innocent Iraqis” are, at best, channeling Rosie O’Donnell. You are defined by the company you keep.

If America is so bad, I’ll buy you a one way ticket to Mexico. See how nicely they treat the Gringo in Juarez or Nuevo Lauredo.

By jd

June 19, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Anyone know a website that lists companies to boycott and those like Dunkin Donuts? I can’t eat donuts 24/7.

By KATHLEEN

June 19, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Marge made a valid point about not wanting to hire contractors to work on her home if they employ illegal immigrants and I will question future contractors I hire.

But she went a little too far in saying “I only want to support American business that hire American citizen workers. At this point, I don’t care about who may or may not have visas or other work papers.”

Marge, are you willing to forgo college education for your children, your grandchildren, even yourself? Will you give up CNN? Will you no longer watch the Braves? I can site many American even government entities that employ legal, properly documented foreign workers, many of whom are on the path to citizenship.

We are all fed up with the uncontrolled influx of illegals, but choose your words carefully, in refusing to use the services of a business that is not exclusively staffed by American citizens you will exclude yourself from many services, entertainment and other opportunities.

By jd

June 19, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

By they way, Woodie, can you give us the time and place of the meeting today? I’ll make an appearance.

By American way

June 19, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Reba, so do you want your children to grow up to be produce pickers or do you prefer they go to college? I’m betting the latter which leaves WHO to pick the produce? Nobody here has said who will take over these jobs. Illegals do because Americans are too lazy to do it and they’re not going to do it for the cost that those jobs pay. Do you think there will ever be a day where picking produce will pay $50,000 a year? I think not.

By charliejoe

June 19, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Hey LT, Go take your neocon talking points to Woooten’s blog. We’re trying to stay on topic here—illegal aliens, remember them? By the way, the name-calling is kind of childish, douchebag.

By Heard it here first

June 19, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

2pm Today

Gwinnett Justice and Admin Center 75 Langley Drive Lawrenceville, GA 30045

Agenda http://www.co.gwinnett.ga.us/departments/boc/pdf/agenda0619_07.pdf

By Anonymous

June 19, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

LT, you may want to consider that YOU are defined by the company you keep as well… and lately, you’re sounding a lot like inane Bush apologists along the lines of Coulter and O’Reilly.

The FACT is, Saddam was not a threat. We established that very clearly after the invasion. The FACT is, the Iraq invasion was, and is, unnecessary. And the FACT is, the Iraqis themselves want us out of their country… as do the majority of Americans.

The FACT is, Bush is on the wrong side of history, and his few remaining supporters are denying reality to an unhealthy and dangerous degree.

Now, did you have anything to offer on the issue of illegal aliens?

By Reba

June 19, 2007 9:40 AM | Link to this

American Way, when one farmer alone receives over $2,000,000 in taxpayer money in one year, you tell me why he can’t afford to pay his produce picker $50,000. I picked tomatoes and cucumbers every summer as a kid growing up in the 70’s. It was good, hard, honest work. Many of my friends did the same. That money is what helped me get through college. My 17-year old nephew who still lives in Mitchell County cannot get a job in the fields. Why? Because the farmers want to pay cash-under-the-table to illegals so they don’t have to match social security benefits.

By frankO

June 19, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

We are subsidizing corporate profits with their abuse of illegals and this flawed system. If we boycott the businesses then they will get the message.

If these business need this cheap labor to survive and can’t abide by the law, then they need to file chapter 7 liquidation and cease operations.

Look at what is happening to our jails, hospitals, and social services. We are also taking responsibility of Mexico’s internal problems of corruption and economic mismanagement.

By American way

June 19, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Reba, I picked strawberries in the 70’s and made very little money. The amount that that farmer received did not go to a ferrari, I assure you. Farmers normally aren’t wealthy barrons. Equipment is extreamly expensive and so is their over head. They also have to keep the farm going or they’ll lose their land. We WANT American farmers and we would like NOT to have to pay for produce from mexico or other countries. I think subsidizing American farms should be done. If we lost American farms then what do we have? Got any better ideas. You still didn’t answer my question, are you encouraging your children to be produce pickers when they grow up? I don’t have children so don’t ask me. I do agree this is a frustrating subject and there are no black/white answers. Everyone just seems to want all illegals to be gone—just like that, but no one has any solutions as to who will take these jobs when they’re gone. High school kids don’t want to work in fields and no child aspires to be laborers. Do we ‘force’ people to do these jobs? No, we can’t do that. So, who will?

By LT5000

June 19, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

To Anon and Brucie,

Keep those Cindy Sheehan talking points going. Tell the Kuwati’s how Saddam wasn’t a threat. How about the Israeli’s. I’m sure people as smart as yourselves know that Saddam was making cash payments to the famalies of suicide bombers. Remember the Iraqi mass graves? The world is better off without him.

Now for an immigration update. From SCANGWINNETT:

The offender physically overpowered the victim and forced her into another room of the apartment away from the 2-year-old. After sexually assaulting the victim, the offender ran away on foot. The 2-year-old was not harmed. When police were notified, the victim was transported to Gwinnett Medical Center. While at GMC the victim went into premature labor. The victim delivered her baby girl. Both mother and newborn are doing well and are expected to be released.

Investigators have already canvassed the apartment complex both searching for information and notifying the community of the crime that took place. At this time there is no solid description of the offender. He is only described as a young adult Hispanic male. The victim is cooperating with investigators. When the victim is physically able, investigators will attempt to create a composite sketch of the offender.

Yep, just coming here to work and make a better life for themeselves

By LJ

June 19, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

GB, I agree we need to get off our fannies and do something. Did anyone see what happened when the illegals were doing their usual protest, etc. holding up their candles…chanting in SPANISH. Speaking in SPANISH. Etc.? Yeah, there was ONE legal citizen who was protesting across the street.

Guess what? HE WAS ORDERED BY THE POLICE TO LEAVE…………

So…WE cannot protest the illegals and their demands for “rights”. We cannot protest the fact that they don’t want citizenship, they WANT OUR COUNTRY. It’s a heck of a lot easier to just take over our country than FIX THEIR OWN COUNTRY. A resource-rich country that could become the same type country as the U.S. But their leaders apparently don’t want that, because it would mean they no longer control the wealth themselves.

The Mexican people have to wake up and do something on THEIR SIDE OF THE FENCE.

And what about these illegals. Watch the video about the escalating violence along our border on FoxNews.com. Plus how the coyotes are treating the very people they rob once they get over here. They rape the women and do horrid things to the people.

To me the best solution is to convince the Mexican government they need to actually care for their own people and help them build their country into a country where their people want to stay and improve. You just have to get them to start caring for their own country instead of their status……..

By LJ

June 19, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

American Way, you asked…”If we lost American farms then what do we have? Got any better ideas.”

The answer to that is what we are seeing happening across our beloved Country. MEGA CORPORATE FARMS. They buy up the farmers and become huge operations. No doubt employ illegals though I do not know for a fact. If they don’t I would be shocked.

To those who say the illegals do jobs that we lazy, fat, good-for-nothing Americans refuse to do? Oh? And just where are these jobs? They are taken by the illegals…so tell me how in the world can the above-described Americans do these jobs if they are not available?

Remember that next time you go to the local illegal labor lot and bring home your yard crew.

Have any of you who hire illegals off the illegal labor lot ever thought about WHO you are exposing your HOME and FAMILY to??? It’s not unknown for people to be robbed/maimed or murdered by the very folk they brought home to do menial work so they can brag about how cheap they got their yard done.

Before you hire off the illegal labor lot next time…give the above just a little more than a fleeting thought.

By Anonymous

June 19, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

LT: Got any evidence that the assault you’re commenting on had ANYTHING to do with immigrants, legal or otherwise?

Of course not. Evidence would only get in the way of your pathetic bigotry. I guess you’re part of the proud 29-Percenters who live in Bushland. The rest of us will keep focusing on America.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 19, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

LT5000 you’re a joke, a neocon blindly following rush, to bring Iraq the freedoms we enjoy? But you attack anyone who disagrees with you with childish insults attempting to limit their right to free speech. Better yet, you want people who disagree with you to leave the country, tell me LT5000 does that make you a hypocrite?

I guess this issue has been beaten into the ground and all there is left are insults.

Hopefully when we find out how many attended the meeting we can have another round.

By Reba

June 19, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

American Way, nobody made a lot of money in the 70’s. Except doctors and lawyers, most wages were very depressed back then. Things have changed dramatically in farming since you and I were kids. Farm subsidies were not abused the way they are today. There is no money in farming, but there is huge money to be made in farm subsidies. Play the system, and yes, you can drive a Ferrari. How many Ferrari’s can one farmer buy with over $2,000,000 in subsidies in one year? Most farms have been in families for generations, so there is no mortgage on the land. The argument you make for farmers needing subsidies could be applied to every single job out there, especially those jobs that have been sent to India. Would you want American businesses to receive subsidies so help desk support and customer service representative jobs would stop being outsourced to India? Don’t we want to keep those jobs in America, too? Why not let those businesses pay minimum wage to the workers, then we taxpayers can subsidize their salaries so they have a liveable salary? If you want to see the subsidy database, go to EWG.ORG and check out the farm subsidy database. And then think of how much of that money is being paid to illegals, who in turn send it via Western Union back to Mexico.

And yes, if we lived in an area that was agricultural, you bet your butt I’d be encouraging my children to get a job in the fields to earn some money to help with college expenses. There aren’t too many farms here in Gwinnett County, in case you haven’t noticed. But as I said earlier, farmers do not want to hire Americans for the job. I can certainly understand their desire to avoid SUTA, FUTA, and FICA taxes, plus the Worker’s Comp premiums, and the headache of having to withhold and file the quarterly federal income taxes on behalf of employees. Don’t you think all businesses would like to avoid those headaches?

When we visit with my parents, who own a mini-farm in Thomas County, both of my children help with anything that needs to be done. They pull weeds, they gather eggs, and help with harvesting. They both love the work. Oh, and my oldest has also spent a week on a Navajo reservation (in July) building a playground for the children. She’s also volunteered for numerous community service projects that include lawn maintenance and home repair. Not exactly cushy jobs, by any stretch of the imagination. And she is but one person in a large volunteer group of teenagers doing this work, so don’t tell me that today’s kids won’t do hard jobs. Given a chance, many of them would shine in these roles. In fact, I will give you another example. I live in a non-HOA subdivision. Our entrance is maintained by volunteers. Two of the main volunteers who cut the grass and trim the weeds are little boys. One is 8 and the other is 9. They do an excellent job, even at such young ages.

American Way, who picked the produce, did the landscaping, laid bricks, made carpet, processed chickens, built houses, etc., before the illegals starting doing those jobs?

By Akagi

June 19, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

If the US wanted to solve the immigration problem:

1) Create a biometric based national ID card for US citizens, a biometric based Alien Registration Card for legal permanent residents, and a biometric based workers ID card for all temporary legal non-US citizens who were allowed to work in the US.

2) Impose draconian fines on anyone that hired anyone without such a card. $100,000 fine per alien for the first offense. Second offense the assets of the company are seized, the people that made the hiring decisions and anyone else connected to those decisions would be arrested and if convicted sent to prison for a term of no less than five years plus seizure of their personal assets. Once a few people end up in prison and their personal fortunes are seized by the government for the hiring of illegal labor would vanish.

3) Require those that provide housing—people who sale or rent housing—must make a good faith effort to make sure those buying or renting that property are in the US legally.

4) Require banks and money-transfer firms to restrict wires outside the US to those legally inside the US.

5) Secure the southern border (because it is the source of the vast majority of illegal border crossings).

6) Amend the 14th Amendment to remove the Jus Solis provision and replace it with Jus Sanguinis as well as an amendment to deny all social services to anyone not in the US legally except for emergency medical care to save the life of the illegal or to prevent illness that have a high risk of impacting the health and safety of the community at large.

7) Create a true guest worker program where workers can be imported to do the unskilled jobs Americans are said not to want to do. The workers stay for a period of time—say 24 months—and then return to their home country. They would not be eligible for either legal residency or a path to citizenship. Guest don’t move in, they sooner or later return home. It should not be an end-around US immigration law.

Will this work? Yes, because I have seen it done before in a country that actually cares about its immigration laws.

Will this ever be done in the US? No because there are vested interests in both parties that support illegal immigration. The US system is as corrupt as any you’d find in some Third World dictatorship—just the corruption here is subtler.

And add to that the US government is incompetent. It can’t even issue passports in a timely manner. Even the most backwards, corrupt banana republic can issue passports in less than 4 months. So they expect us to believe they can do background checks on 20 million people in a day? Sure they can and if you believe that you have been smoking something.

By LT5000

June 19, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Poor misguided Bruce. Read before you spout off. Life is hard. It’s even harder when you are stupid.

Bold: “At this time there is no solid description of the offender. He is only described as a young adult Hispanic male.”

Your ignorance of the issues is only seconded by your arrogance.

By LT5000

June 19, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Brucie,

Here’s a link because your previous posts indicate you are incapable of even the most simple of analysis.

This is from SCANGWINNETT. Look under sexual assault.

How long should I wait for an admission that you were incorrect? I use facts to back up my arguments, you merely channel Jimmy Carter with a Abbie Hoffman garnish. Smarten up.

http://www.scangwinnett.com/index.php

By LJ

June 19, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Akagi - Congratulations…you have just put into words one of the best posts I’ve seen in a very long time! Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Have you thought of running for President? We are in really, really deep KAAKAA with those who aspire to take over this country in ‘08!

Thanks again!

By LB

June 19, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

Thank you AKAGI. I would like to add a suggestion. Why not prison labor or community services to help on the farms?

Secondly, no one has ever asked me to work on a farm. Here I am, ready, willing, able and needing work. I am currently unemployed making no money at all. I apply for anything I think I might can do, warehousing, cleaning and mopping. I will not elaborate, but I have had over 25 years work experience, sales, banking etc. Why are illegals given more consideration of jobs than me? Am I being discriminated against because I am over 50 and American? I am registered with 4 different temp agencies and none have called me. I substitute teach at various schools but that’s only seasonal. I tried since January to find a company who would hire me for 10 weeks. When I go to stores, fast foods or have appointments and communication is a problem because I don’t speak the language then it’s a problem indeed. What happened to the EEOC. Does this only apply to illegals anymore? I have sat at home with no job for a month with no hope of my phone ringing. I will go full time with any company who treats me right. The job itself doesn’t matter but the treatment on the job does matter. I go for numerous interviews but when they see my gray hair it’s history. Just because I’m 50+ doesn’t mean I’m dead. I pinch myself and it hurts so I must still be living. My resume is full of great experience. I am willing to farm if there is something local. I am willing to process meat. From January to now is a mighty long time to seek a summer job and now the summer is 1/3 over. It gets very old to patronize a fast food and see no black or white people but only broken English people. EEOC is a joke for the Americans. Guess I need to spend more time at the alter asking God why nobody loves me. I am totally frustrated.

I am nauseated when I hear the statement Americans are lazy and illegals do the jobs we refuse to do. SAID WHO? Nobody asked me.

By Marge

June 19, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

To Kathleen: Yes, I have a choice on who I hire to work in or on my home even if it is not PC. We all make value judgments. I prefer American citizens to those with lawful visas who may be valid workers in various industries. Through my research, there are many American citizens who are losing their jobs to “immigrants” particularly in construction. I have made an effort to reach out and support businesses who have American citizen workers. These people have established families and roots so, they get my business. I can control the people I hire and support and businesses I prefer. It has nothing to do with government hiring or what TV show I watch. By the way, I also make value judgements on business to support outside of my home. I prefer Ace Hardware to Home Depot and Lowes because the signs are still in English and that is my comfort zone. I also avoid restaurants where I suspect (by my visual cues and contacts) illegal aliens are employed OR if I feel the restaurant owners are sypathetic to the illegal alien agenda (such as those that closed during the protest marches). Yes, my comfort zone if for America. Without even spelling out any restaurant names, I bet you can figure out which ones I would boycott. Thank God we still have a little freedom. Also, check out the corporate sponsors of La Raza: Corporate Sponsors of La Raza We would all be wise to tell these companies that we will boycott their businesses due to their support of this separatist, racist organization that does not recognize that all men are created equal. We have the power to put them out of business. I do my part.

By Pam

June 19, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

Sorry Woody, I was not able to leave work to be at the meeting. But if everybody is serious about a demonstration or protest march let me know. Can’t we as citizens have a march on Saturday. Name the place and time and I will be there with my flag upright, and the Mexican flag upside down.

By Stephanie

June 19, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

Chris Krok of WSB radio will be sponsoring another bill rally against amnesty within the next 1-2 weeks so listen in to his show. The last one outside of Saxby’s office had a great turnout: Anti-Amnesy Rally

By Reba

June 19, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Got this off of La Raza’s site:

“NCLR has worked for many years to promote fairness and equity for the nation’s farmworkers. Of particular concern are poor wages and working conditions, as well as poor housing, education, and health care for farmworkers and their families.” Good-bye, cheap farm labor.

By chally

June 19, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

I have moved down from n.y.c.to lawrenceville 3 yrs now.I use to be a plumbing and hvac contractor doing a lot of city work.When you do city work there,you have to verify that all employees are legal by providing their social security numbers wage amount and addresses.Then they would write the employees to verify that the wages,social security# that the employer provided were accurate including coming to the job site to verify the names.This was done to ensure that the employer was paying the wages that they calculated the bid on ,and that they were not providing ghost employees and pocketing the payroll themselves and that they were not underpaying the taxes,and they say that new york is liberal.Amazing that gwinnett county contractors can use illegal labor and write it off on their taxes! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

By Bruce Wilcox

June 19, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Did anyone make it to the hearing? If anyone did about how many attended?

Yes, LT5000 we understand your racist comments, I did not see if it mentioned if he was illegal or not, it was just because he was “a young adult Hispanic male”. I am amazed that you think only young adult Hispanic males commit crimes.

By Michael H. Smith

June 19, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

@ Chally – I find your comments very interesting for several reasons but for the sake of staying on topic I’ll not go into all of them. In Georgia, unlike in many other states, we lack laws/requirements to do the kind of things you mentioned. We also lacked strong unions, so it really doesn’t or shouldn’t surprise anyone why the construction industry in this state is so vulnerable to illegalities the slip shod contractors and ripped-off ticked-off consumers. A bill I do believe passed into law that addressed some of the wrongs in the Georgia construction industry but it didn’t really go after illegal employment, though, in truth and in law it should. On that, many of my construction contemporaries and me are in full agreement. As we see it, a state law that requires state licensing of everyone involved from top to bottom is necessary and the best means to “comprehensively” address all ills presently found in the construction industry from the hiring of illegal aliens, to the under-qualified workers, to the tax cheats, to the insurances cheats, to the unemployment tax cheats, to the slip shod contractors/sub-contractors and builders; and to restore to the consumers trust and satisfaction in-and-with our industry as a whole. Rest a-s-s-ured this would be fought vehemently by the home builders’ a-s-s-ociations, the general contractor a-s-s-ociations and all the loathsome socio-ethnocentric groups fronting for illegal immigration. But to the industry groups, look at it this way: You and the rest us have failed to police ourselves and our various trades in the industry. So we no longer really deserver that once privilege and right we enjoyed so liberally over the many past years to do as we see fit, without the presence of a state law bringing order to the chaos and anarchy we have created.

My suggestions:

Anyone involved in the construction industry should be required to have a worker occupation license(s) specific to the scope of work or service they perform or provide in construction or construction related industries, to be issued by the state. Penalties and fines to begin at $100 and not to exceed $1 million per count and/or 1 to 5 years imprisonment, carrying either a misdemeanor or felony count depending upon severity of the violation including cease and desist orders and loss of business license in the State of Georgia.

In order to obtain the respective license(s) the individual seeking the license must provide to the state’s satisfaction the following proofs to comply:

The person is a legal resident in the United States.

The person must pass an occupation or trade specific test given in English and only to be given in foreign languages to verified legal immigrants.

All license(s) to be renewable. No license(s) shall remain valid for any period of time that exceeds 5 years. In cases of legal immigrant workers license(s) expirations shall run concurrent to the time limits and constraints of their visas; but in no cases, citizen or immigrant, shall any occupation or trade license(s) remain valid for more than 5 years.

The person has paid all taxes, license fees and necessary insurance as applicable under state law.

The person has no unresolved consumer complaints, unpaid settlements or court judgments outstanding against them, the quality of their work performed or failure to honor consumer warranties.

Funding for this licensing program to be paid for out of the monies obtained from license fees and fines imposed and collected under this law. No funding for this construction occupation and trades industry licensing program shall be made through the general tax digest of the state or from any other form of fees.

These are just a few seed thoughts I’ve kicked around for years but who knows one day this could become law. I would certainly welcome it and so would many others.

By Michael H. Smith

June 20, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Amnesty Outrage

Black and Hispanic Americans are voicing their opposition to amnesty as the Senate prepares to take up the grand compromise on immigration again. Members of the organizations “You Don’t Speak for Me” and “Choose Black America” say illegal aliens are taking their jobs and their resources. We’ll have a special report. From Lou Dobbs Tonight.

Thank you my fellow Americans for joining in unity as Americans first and for refusing to ally with the separatisms of foreign and ancestral ethnocentricity.

Say it loud and say it proud, for you truly are great Americans!

By Montezuma

June 20, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

Those advancing dumb ideas to get rid of us (the hard working immigrants) are just deceiving yourself. We are here and will remain here, with citizenship or without it. The Z visa is a great idea—thanks Mr. president. We don’t really care about becoming citizens as long as we can stay here and work. Citizenship in these modern times of globalization and blurring of artificial borders is just a piece of paper. LT5000 and peers can have their citizenship and flag up their butt. You guys make me laugh with your “macho” American attitudes. Time, big business and smart senators are on our side. We will stay and control this country with our presence and votes. We will be strong and vocal to demand and defend our human rights. We will work with all those good Americans that understand the future, and will defeat and isolate the bigots and the racists. Viva America! Viva Mexico!

By LT5000

June 20, 2007 6:48 AM | Link to this

Anon and Brucie,

Racism, the last refuge of the scoundrel, to be utilized when your argument has been utterly destroyed by the facts. Though, I have to congratulate both of you for holding off as long as you did.

I think both of you could use a good vacation after working so hard to promote your illegal alien propoganda. I hear Pride Fest is in town this weekend.

Adios Amigos. Viva Los Estados Unidos.

LT5000

By Kathleen

June 20, 2007 7:10 AM | Link to this

So, I read in the news report NO ONE attended the hearing yesterday. I don’t think Woody wanted to be proved right with his challenge, but sadly he was.

By Blue collar worker

June 20, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this

Kathleen, Most people are working during the week. What do you expect?

By yeah, I said it

June 20, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

What? Blacks are complaining about hispanics taking their resources? What, welfare? Don’t we have enough people on welfare already. Blacks need to find jobs, jobs are everywhere. Problem is is that you have to actually go out and find one, they don’t fall into your laps. What they need to do is stay in school, get an education, get a job and start keeping their legs closed until they can afford kids. Stop the welfare generation.

By LJ

June 20, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Michael H. Smith for President!

Seriously…we NEED someone like you.

Your posts are so very well-written.

By jd

June 20, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

After looking at the list of corporate sponsors of La Raza, it might be easier to come up with a list that of companies that DO NOT support them.

It just goes to show you, corporate America does not care about Americans. They only care about the almighty doller in their pockets.

By KATHLEEN

June 20, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

I know many people are working, I was. But based on the rants I read here I would think some of you passionate bloggers could leave work early or take a day off to voice your opinion and show support for ordinances you care about. After all our government is supposed to be for the people and BY the people. I also know that some people have jobs that do not require them to be at work during “normal business hours”, and I imagine some of the people who post on this page are retired. The news piece did not say turnout was sparse, it stated NO ONE attended.

By Anonymous

June 20, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

LT: It’s good that you recognize how you’ve offered no facts. Admitting the problem is the first step.

Now, if you DO stumble across some facts, be sure to ask one of us for help in recognizing them.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this

KATHLEEN by looking at some of the times that comments were made on the blog they could have attended the meeting.

I quote from my first comment on the subject, “It will be interesting to see how many would actually inconvenience themselves to voice their opinion against another human attempting to better themselves.”

Funny how loud some can shout the loudest safely hidden behind their computer screens.

By KATHLEEN

June 20, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

A public hearing and board vote on the proposal are scheduled for 7 p.m. June 26 in the Gwinnett Justice and Administration Center auditorium in Lawrenceville. I plan to attend.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

The problem with the feel good law is that it just duplicates the new state law that goes into effect in July, the new state law that duplicates the old federal law.

But as they say, “If it feels good, Pass it?”.

By Woody Bass

June 20, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

A reliable source informs me.. that there were about 30 people in that auditorium. That includes the commissioners, their staff, some others who were there to accept awards and a few other stragglers.

I would like to point out that there are in excess of 750,000 people CURRENTLY in Gwinnett County. Your not going to tell me… that there are not 1000 or more of you who could not be there. Soccer Moms? Retirees?

As Kathleen points out… the next meeting is next Tuesday.. at 7pm in the auditorium.

You still have 6 days to prove me wrong.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

So Woody it appears that you’re in favor of the feel good law? What is surprising to me is the fact that Gwinnett County has been so sloppy to give away millions to companies that do not follow the law, otherwise why would anyone need another law?

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

The state law signed on 4/17/97, the more detailed bull can be found on the states web-site. Folks you’re just being had.

A BILL to be entitled an Act to amend Title 13 of the O.C.G.A., relating to contracts, Title 16 of the O.C.G.A., relating to crimes and offenses, Title 34 of the O.C.G.A., relating to labor, Title 35 of the O.C.G.A., relating to law enforcement, and Title 50 of the O.C.G.A., relating to state government, so as to provide for the comprehensive regulation of persons in this state who are not lawfully present in the United States; to provide for a short title; to provide for statutory construction; to provide for procedures and requirements applicable to certain contracts or subcontracts; to prohibit certain retaliation; to provide for enforcement, penalties, and exceptions; to provide for offenses regarding involuntary servitude, trafficking of persons for forced labor or services, and sexual servitude of a minor; to provide for related matters; to provide for effective dates; to provide for applicability; to repeal conflicting laws; and for other purposes.

By Akagi

June 20, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

JD:

“It just goes to show you, corporate America does not care about Americans.”

And this is a surprise? In April of 2001, A Chinese J8 fighter collided into an American EP3 Orion reconnaissance aircraft. The plane was forced to land at Lingshui on China’s Hainan Island. The crew was kept as virtual hostages for 10 days. During this time, UPS went ahead with its plans for their “grand opening to China” ceremony in China as 24 of their fellow citizens were being held hostage. Completely outrageous bordering on treasonous and if any Atlanta-based company deserves to go out of business, it is UPS. And I personally never ship anything UPS due to their callous behavior during the Hainan Island Incident.

So, yes, JD, look, heads of companies would sell their daughters into prostitution if it would earn them a few extra dollars and this is not unique with so-called American companies. So it should be no surprise that a company-based in the US (there is no such thing as an American company)would put its profits over the country it just so happens to be based in.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Note the Bill was signed in 07, not 97.

By Ray

June 20, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wilcox needs to open his liberal eyes. Mr. Wilcox needs to observe some of the stats of the illegal aliens criminals flooding our jails, hospitals, welfare systems and see the amount of damage they cause to this country. Mr. Wilcox needs to travel to Mexico as I have and see the crap hole these people are going to turn this country into. A good friend of mine lost his sister in a wreck to an illegal, who hauled a* back to Mexico after he killed the child. An average of 8 Americans a day die at the hands of illegals, far more than have been killed in Iraq by the way. No one is talking about these deaths. I agree many are good people looking for a better way of life, they should start by making change happen in their own country. How about this: From the L.A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens. 4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally. 6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages. 7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles
are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking. 10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County)
(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,
but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States’ annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was, (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/
year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime
fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average
adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens. If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by
the thousands, WHY can’t they take charge over the corruption in their own country?
We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.
THE U.S. VS MEXICO

On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles
Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted, pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at
the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve
Sampson said, “This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this
profession.”
Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government
contracts. It’s called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan
or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for
special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent.
Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world
immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon, Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.
DID YOU KNOW? Did you know . that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals?
Did you know . that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so? According to the L.A. Times, Orange County , California is home to 275 gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.
How’s your county doing? According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20 years after
the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia, 30% are still on welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stating that Asian mobsters are the “greatest criminal challenge the country
faces.” Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population. Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent
over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system. “Imagine teachers in classes containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation,
many of whom aren’t fluent in English. Educators seek learning materials
likely to reach the majority of students and that means fewer words and
math problems and more pictures and multicultural references.”
WHEN I WAS YOUNG
I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island .
They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breathe free. They wanted
to become Americans. Now, far too many immigrants come here with demands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand special privileges . Its called affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify their culture.
NOW. Read up on La Raza and some of the other pro-Mexican organizations and you will see assimilation is not the agenda. Taking over parts of America IS THE AGENDA! WHY CAN’T WE SEND THEM HOME? Take away the damn liberal, socialist freebies! Mr. Wilcox needs to move his a* to Mexico. I will pay for the one way ticket!

I call my senators and congressman every damn week, as well as the White House just yesterday. as well as donate big $$$$ to FAIR. Look them up.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Great speech, now read the State Bill that becomes law on July 1st or the Federal Law that has exsisted since 1986 and explain how this Bill is any different?

You conservatives just love Bigger Mommie Government, gee if we can just pass another law to do what the other two laws already do, the problem will be solved.

Hey Ray, the answer is enforcement of the Bill that have been on the books since 1986.

I love these, “Mr. Wilcox needs to move his a* to Mexico. I will pay for the one way ticket”, tell me do you drool when you write this clever second grade level retorts?

By What????

June 20, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Ray, Let Mr. Wilcox say way he will. You are right.

By Akagi

June 20, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Ray:

I can’t speak for Hispanics but on the education front East Asians have often gotten the short end of the stick in regards to affirmative action. And of course the Mexican consulate will aid in the defense of a Mexican national accused of a crime in the US, just as the US consulate in say Chengdu would aid you if you got in legal trouble in western China. Mexico will not extradite any national who faces either death or life in prison. Mexico is not unique in this regard. France for example only agreed to extradite Ira Einhorn if the possibility of death was removed.

When you simply complain about Asians and Mexicans it makes you look like a bigot—something the pro-amnesty camp wants to paint you as—why give them an easy target?

This bill actually hurts immigrants from Asia (which are almost exclusively legal) while it rewards Mexicans and Central Americans (which are almost mostly illegal).

For those that can’t read well, mostly means 51% or more and between 3/4 and 2/3 of all Mexican “immigrants” are illegal.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Akagi the Bill I’m refering to is the new Gwinnett County feel good one, it does the same as the state law that goes into effect in a couple of weeks and just does what the federal law dictates since 1986.

Plus the new Federal Bill the Bush/McCain/Kennedy Bill will render all these other feel good layers of bills moot.

But one can never have enough laws or bills, politicans need to earn their pay and look like they are doing something.

By Oh My

June 20, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Ray, good but scary information. I’m thinking that Mr. Wilcox may be an illegal. Something’s not right.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Georgia only has a 56% high school graduation rate, I believe it, you do not have to keep proving it.

By Akagi

June 20, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Bruce:

I was talking about the McTraitor-Kennedy bill. And I still have hope that this bill will fail.

But since you can buy any US Senator if the price is right, I am not so sure on its chances in the Senate.

The real hope is in the House.

By LT5000

June 20, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Anon,

Surely you aren’t that stupid, but considering the racism charges you have leveled against me, I find that I may have over estimated you.

Brucie and yourself have offered nothing but kneejerk sloganeering instead of useful debate. When the facts overwhelmed your arguments, you finally resorted to cries of racism.

Pathetic.

For all the people here who would like your Senators to know how you feel on the immigration issue, here is #. 1-800-417-7666.

Viva Los Estados Unidos.

By LT5000

June 20, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

And From Today’s Illegal Immigrant News

An illegal alien was in court Tuesday accused of taking pornographic pictures of a child.

Chesapeake police say 19-year-old Carlos Ramos tried to develop the pictures at Wal-Mart.**

And a little closer to home.

Metro police said 24-year-old Victor Benitez was drunk as he ran a red light at the intersection of Old Hickory Boulevard and Nolensville Road, killing 22-year-old Joycelyn Gardiner.

In February 2006, Benitez was convicted of car burglary. Nine months later, he spent seven days in jail for public intoxication and resisting arrest. The Mexican native now faces a vehicular homicide charge.

I know, I know, Brucie and his boyfriend, Anonymous, will accuse me of being a racist again, but facts are facts.

These people are not here trying to better themselves. The point of moving to America is to better yourself and the country. Rape and pillage do not fall under Immigrants Rights.

Please call your Senators. 1-800-417-7666.

Viva Los Estados Unidos.

LT5000

By Anonymous

June 20, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Now I see that LT moves on to homophobia. You can always spot a redneck when the nastiest insult he can come up with “U must be gay.”

The problem (for those smarter than LT… or a snail) is not the illegal workers themselves—it’s the employers and the politicians they own and manipulate. Cries to “crack down on illegals” will accomplish exactly NOTHING as long as you keep putting CEOs and their cronies into office.

By LT5000

June 20, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Anonymous,

Do you honestly think some CEO forced the illegal immigrant to drive drunk or take pictures of a little girl?

To try and excuse these horrific acts by blaming American businesses and CEO’s is absolutely absurd.

I guess having to defend your inane position on illegal immigration for so long has finally driven you to dementia. At least a case of paranoid schizophrenia.

Please call your senators.
1-800-417-7666.

Viva Los Estados Unidos.

LT5000

By Ray

June 20, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

Actually I find it funny when Mr. Wilcox assumes so much. I despise big mommie or commie government and I am willing to bet Mr. Wilcox is counting on his social insecurity, when I think we are responsible for ourselves, our own health care, our own retirement, not government. I am a Libertarian who would abolish most of the federal government and turn it over to the states, as it should be. However, one main job of the federal government is NATIONAL SECURITY. He is correct we never enforced the 1986 bill on immigration and I fault both parties. I would vote against Bush on this immigration issue alone. (Not that this should be part of this discussion, I have no problem kicking a* in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or anywhere else we need to kick a*, as we should have done with Germany and Japan sooner than we did and yes Iraq did have plenty of time to move the stuff out of country as we warned them for a year we were coming, but I don’t expect him to understand that either)I also wish Mr. Wilcox would address the facts I have laid out in my earlier post, but that might be difficult assuming he was educated in public schools. Also, as I did find his comment regarding my statement “I will pay for the one way ticket”, “tell me do you drool when you write this clever second grade level retorts” humorous, the offer still stands. He might be able to bring some of these third world nations up to his level. Hell, he might even be able to be an elected official in one of these third world countries. Semper Fi.

By No, Ya Didn't Go There...

June 20, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Ohhhhh, Ray, I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said thus far. Your arguments and statements were well thought out and made complete sense. You also backed your statements up with facts. However, I do wish to take issue with the “educated in public schools” comment.

I don’t think you can lump everyone who was educated in public schools into the same heap that you place Mr. Wilcox. I went to public schools growing up. However, I was also raised by an Army man and wife who could not afford to send their four kids to private schools during the 70s & early 80s. I was raised to look at the facts and think for myself even though I went to public schools (although public schools back then were much better than they are now). So, please be careful when you make statements such as those. Thanks.

By Akagi

June 20, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Ray:

Are you aware that the Libertarian Party supports open borders and supports the current amnesty bill.

SOME Libertarian positions make sense, but the one-word that can be used to describe Libertarians is naive. No make that two-words, hopelessly naive.

That is a very dangerous trait to have in 2007.

By Ray

June 20, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this

I said I was a Libertarian who does not always agree with the national party on several issues, and I actually do think for myself. I also understand most people cannot afford private school or they cannot home school, you might actually have to give up some things in life. That is why my wife and I invested all of our money in real estate and index funds for years, forgoing vacations or big screen TV’s, driving older cars, choosing not to have kids until our 40’s, and then chose to have only one when we could afford it. It’s called choices. We actually planned our child and we can now afford to live very, very well, saving for our own retirement without the help of government and saving for our son’s education and private school. Choices. Personal responsibility.

By Ray

June 20, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

You might also have read that I believe in peace through superior firepower and nipping problems in the bud, which is not a Libertarian viewpoint either.

By Pam

June 20, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Okay guys……..Stop it. Those that can show up at the meeting on the 26th…show up. I will be there. And no I am not retired and no I just can’t take off work whenever.

By Ray

June 20, 2007 7:41 PM | Link to this

Pam, It’s just the male hormones dear.

By Ray

June 20, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

And by the way, I am not retired either.

By Crystal

June 20, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

So - we are suppose to show up for a meeting to make sure that the laws are followed? Are we also going to bombarded by anti-illegal supporters who are going to be calling us every name in the book along with being called a racist? Oh, that’s right, only illegals have rights in this country. Funny question, if the influx of illegals were coming from Canada, would it still be considered racist to inforce the law?

By Ray

June 20, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

It is apparent I need to reiterate that I am NOT against immigration, I am against illegal immigration. Anyone willing to break the laws of the land to enter the country has no regard for this country. I have the utmost respect for those who take the time to do it the right way, just as I have to do if I visit any other country in the world. It is also proven that those who do it legally, even though the process is cumbersome, have a much higher regard for this nation and its laws.

By publius

June 20, 2007 8:50 PM | Link to this

At least we are all witnessing an interesting time in our country’s history.

The beginning of it’s downfall.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

A Libertarian is a embarrassed Republican. Now Ray why should I bother with your cut and paste, it has nothing to do with the discussion. I see that many cannot grasp the idea of addressing the topic at hand.

Let me refresh the issue, the county wants to impose a new law dealing with immigrants and county contracts, I call it nothing more than a feel good law. The reason it is nothing more than a feel good law is because it just duplicates the new state law, that duplicates the in place since 1986 federal law.

No one, zip, showed up at the meeting, all these insults, drooling on keyboards, displaying the mentality of two year olds and no one showed up. What hypocrites, what jokes, already lighting the torchs and grabbing the pitchforks, but just didn’t have the time to fit storming the castle into their day.

Thanks for the laughs.

By Crystal

June 20, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

County officials held the first of two public hearings on the proposal Tuesday. Nobody showed up.

Here is a quote from the AJC:

“Some county officials attributed the lack of turnout to how the issue was worded on the commission’s public agenda. It was listed as an expenditure to enforce proposed changes in the county’s purchasing ordinance, and the agenda item did not mention illegal immigration.”

By sam

June 20, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

The county ordinance as proposed by Commissioner Lorraine Green is NOT the same as the state. Read the text. The state has a three year phase in period (um, why???) and it does not deal with existing employees. The penalties, as I read it are also different.

But, let’s face it - none of us showed up to support this lady and her efforts. Who is to blame but we ourselves?

Show up Tuesday night. E-mail Green (lorraine.green@gwinnettcounty.com)and tell her you want this done! Quit whining and DO SOMETHING!!

There has been alot of talk about this lady - I hope she goes on to bigger and better things. We need more people who are willing to stand up for us.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

sam, read Article three of the state law please, also the federal law in place since 1986.

Thank you.

By same

June 20, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

Bruce,

Read the state law yourself.

The verification goes into effect 7/1/07 IF you have 500 or more employees. 7/1/08 if 100 or more employees 7/109 if less than 100

Pretty simple, bud.

This proposal is pretty simple. Everyone. Now.

yeah, there’s been lot’s of federal laws in place - like one that makes it illegal to cross the border without proper documentation. At this point, I’d rather trust the county than the feds.

By No, Ya Didn't Go There, Again...

June 20, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

I am sorry to go off topic but I have to respond to Ray’s post at 6:29.

Ray, if you will go back and read my post again about “educated in public schools” you will see I was talking about myself. My parent’s sent me to public schools while I was growing up.

Not everyone has the same choices and/or opportunities that you’ve had. I can appreciate the sacrifices you’ve made to be where you are in your life but it doesn’t give you a license to pass judgement on others who aren’t in the same situation and don’t have the same choices as you. Also, the choices you’ve made may come back to bite you in the butt. You will be in your 60’s (or possibly 70’s) when your kid moves out of your house. If he follows your example waits until his 40’s to have kids, you may be too old to enjoy them or you may be gone. Then you deprive your grandkids of the opportunity of knowing you and enjoying you too. Also, your ages could be an embarrassment to your kid (“What, are those your grandparents?”)

Believe me I know about sacrifices.

Let me explain:

My parent’s were married in 1958 when they were in their early 20’s (mom was 20 and dad was 23) which was common for that era. My father went into the Army in 1959 and retired in 1989. That’s 30 years of service to this great country and protecting her rights and freedoms. However, the Army does not pay it’s people very well, especially the enlisted. We never had new cars or t.v.s. We wore clothes that mom made or bought from yard sales and thrift shops. We never went on vacations, went out to eat, or went to the movies. Some months we ate beans and rice for the last half of the month because we ran out of money. They saved whatever money they could so that we wouldn’t go into debt when emergencies happened. What we did not have was money left over after bare necessities to attend private school. Also, home schooling was not something people did back then. Mothers stayed at home, mine included, to get the kids off to school, clean, shop, cook, and be there when the kids got home.

In spite of the circumstances and attending public schools, I think I turned out okay. I am well read and very informed. I am also conservative. I am sure there are other people who are a product of public schools who know history, who can think for themselves and who can hold intelligent conversation.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 20, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

It is illegal to hire an illegal since 1986, 86’ seems to trump 2007 according to my math.

And yes same, adding another layer of government and adding a brand new law will make it all better. An aside…did you know the murder rate in Gwinnett doubled since last year? Time we crack down on Madams and illegals.

From the 1986 law…The Immigration Reform and Control Act provides sanctions for knowingly hiring an employee who is not legally authorized to work. It requires employers and states to check work authorization documents for every new employee or benefit applicant, including U.S. citizens, and to complete a related form.

Yawn

By Woody Bass

June 20, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Interesting comment publius…. however…

its apathy thats the root cause of the downfall.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 21, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

“The commission also is considering spending $256,500 to enable the county purchasing department to enforce the proposed changes in the ordinance.”

Hard to believe $256,500 to enforce a law that has been around since 1986, where have they been?

By Anonymous

June 21, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

LT5000’s dementia and denial continues… insisting that illegals somehow categorically commit crimes that legal immigrants and citizens do not, or that they commit far more crime than citizens do. (Another unsupported assumption, of course.)

The alleged crime rate among illegals is simply a red herring. At its core, the b*** about “them unAmerican furriners” is about bigotry. And the fact that some of these workers also break the law IS a problem… but a staggeringly trivial one compared to the business demand that DRAWS them here and ensures that laws already on the books are not enforced.

By meme

June 21, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Let’s have a few more illegal walk-out days. It was so nice to go to the store and get home from work in less than 45 minutes. It only took me 20 minutes to get home on the 2 days the illegals were “on strike”. I loved it.

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

For Brucie and Anonymous.

Some facts from the GAO, that I’m sure Brucie and Anonmymous will ignore. Or at least insinuate that they are RACIST. Their favorite lament.

However, it is abundantly clear that illegals do commit crimes at a much higher rate than us stupid, racist Americans.

Will Brucie or Anonymous even bother to address this report?

The briefing slides in enclosure I address each of our three questions. In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that:

* They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty- eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. *

**They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests.[Footnote 6] Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.

About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage.

*About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud—including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. *

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

For Brucie and Anonymous.

Some facts from the GAO, that I’m sure Brucie and Anonmymous will ignore. Or at least insinuate that they are RACIST. Their favorite lament.

However, it is abundantly clear that illegals do commit crimes at a much higher rate than us stupid, racist Americans.

Will Brucie or Anonymous even bother to address this report?

The briefing slides in enclosure I address each of our three questions. In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that:

* They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty- eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. *

**They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests.[Footnote 6] Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.

About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage.

*About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud—including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. *

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

By Akagi

June 21, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Bruce:

Libertarians ARE NOT Republicans of any sort. While Both Libertarians and Republicans (at least at one time)shared a vision of limited government on fiscal issues, Libertarians favor limited government period.

They favor the legalization of all drugs currently illegal. Doing away with the role of the state in marriage—no more marriage licenses and gays can marry who they want to marry. End of all laws regarding sexual conduct between consenting adults, doing away with the FCC and its control of what can be broadcasted, open borders on immigration, the end of all forms of welfare—which include corporate welfare such as farm subsidies. All foreign aid should be private, the withdrawal of all US troops outside the United States. Taxes would be replaced by user fees and most public lands and national parks, forests, etc would be sold off to private interests who can manage them better than the public sector. The elimination of public schools and the elimination of the majority of US Government departments. The elimination of most government programs such as funding for the arts, support for state and private universities, etc. Any museums and the like still owned by the “public” would be supported 100% by entry fees they took in—if they can’t survive on these fees, they would be sold to private concerns or closed. The size of the US government would be slashed to a point as it existed in the early 1800s and thus the user fees would be able to fund the now miniscule Federal government.

Few Republicans or Democrats would agree with most of these positions. In fact few Americans would agree with these positions which is why the Libertarian Party will remain a small freak show on the edge of American politics. Basically the LP today is not unlike the Socialists and Communist Party was in the 1920s and 1930s.

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

And From Today’s Illegal Immigrant News:

Illegal Immigrant Accused Of Kidnapping

*Brookings County authorities have arrested a 20-year-old Elkton man for attempted kidnapping, accusing him of trying to abduct a 14-year-old Elkton girl. *

*Assistant Sheriff Scott Sebring says a man had gotten into an Elkton home early Saturday and tried to pull the girl out of a window, but she fought back and the man ran off. Authorities then were contacted about 3:00 AM. *

The girl gave authorities a description and a first name, which eventually led to the arrest of Juan Manuel Rodriguez. Sebring says he was found in an Elkton home and arrested on a string of charges, including attempted kidnapping and burglary.

http://www.keloland.com/News/NewsDetail6371.cfm?Id=0,58013

Please call your Senators. 1-800-417-7666.

Viva Los Estados Unidos. LT5000

By charliejoe

June 21, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

LT,

You know I am strongly against illegal immigrants. Yes, I am glad you finally included some sort of link to outside sources besides quoting Bill “Papa Bear” O’Reilly. And I also agree that illegal immigrants commit many crimes. However, I actually read through the entire report you quote from. They are referring to every prisoner in federal and state prison who they could be reasonably certain to be an illegal immigrant (although it is probably underestimated, IMO). Anyway, they found all 55,000 and broke down their arrest records, etc. (at the request of a sentator I believe?) Anyway, without stats on how many overall prisoners there are in the US fed and state prisons (although we incarcerate a very high percentage of our population, surpassing Russia some time ago I believe—somewhere north of 2 million people I believe), and how many overall people are in the US (around 300 million), and how many illegals are here (around 12 million), it doesn’t tell us much. Let’s do a little math. The number of prisoners in total is about 2 million. The number of people in the US is about 300 million. That is 0.7% of the population. The number of illegal immigrants in prisons is (at least) 55,000. The number of illegals is about 12 million (at least). That is about 0.5% of illegal immigrants in prison. I don’t have a math major (although I do have a math minor), but if these numbers are correct (and that’s a big if with the illegal immigrant numbers—the others I submit are plus or minus 10% correct), it would seem illegals are incarcerated at about the same or less percentage as the overall population. I’d like to see the numbers broken down, however, for fugitives from justice—I think here illegal immigrants certainly should be overrepresented—I know I’d skip back to Mexico if I was facing prison time. I am not arguing that illegals are necessarily any more likely to be in prison than citizens. That could be because we don’t bother to arrest for the crime that they all are guilty of—sneaking over our border illegally!! That and identity fraud that is by necessity rampant make them by default criminals when they step over that checkpoint with the rented passport or when they pay a coyote to smuggle them over and buy a green card in the park in Monterrey. But hey, they’re just trying to make a better life, right guys? Just like the guy who stole my buddy’s barbecue grill or the guy who jumps over the turnstiles at the MARTA station or a million other little crimes people commit to make their lives easier or better. Stealing cigarettes because you’re broke doesn’t make it any less of a crime, does it? And there really aren’t that many people stealing bread to feed their poor starving kids in this country anymore are there? Well, enough of my rant. LT, please let me know how your statistics back up your claim. Lay it out for me. But please start using the scientific part of your brain (if there is any part that isn’t being used to store quotes from Hannity and The Free Republic) instead of trying to mislead people with statistics. I’m starting to wonder if you are really trying to fool people or are just being fooled yourself? Dang dude, I thought you were smarter than that.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 21, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Akagi that was a joke aimed at Ray, but one big advantage Libertarians have is that they can complain about every party/person/policy, you name it, because as you pointed out they are nothing more than a small freak show on the edge of American politics.

By Anonymous

June 21, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Thanks, charliejoe, for doing the very basic math needed to demonstrate that LT5000’s “facts” are bogus.

Yes, illegals commit some crimes; so do legal immigrants, and so do citizens. Pointing out individual cases as though they represent what Those People are really all about is logically invalid.

It would be like me posting quote from Jerry Falwell as proof that Those Christians are all hateful, psychotic morons.

As I already said, and the math shows: the crime rate of illegals is a red herring. No relevance to the issue at hand, except that it fuels the bigotry fire that really underlies your dislike of anyone “Hispanic” (and therefore presumed illegal).

By No, Ya Didn't Go There...

June 21, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Ya know, it isn’t just illegal immigration that is the problem here in the U.S. It is also all the parents raising their kids with the attitude of entitlement and right to have anything and everything their lil ole hearts desire. With parents expecting the day cares, schools, t.v., etc. to raise their kids rather than actually doing it themselves, they’ve “raised” a bunch of little criminals who think they have the right to do what they want and have what they want without any consequences. They’ve allowed the government to take over and do what they should be doing themselves.

By Ray

June 21, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

You know Bruce, call it a freakshow if you will, and as I said earlier I do not adhere to many of the Libertarian platforms, and I do vote for Republicans a good deal of the time, I still believe in the fact I own me and am responsible for me and mine, not government. Why do I get the feeling you have had some type of government job all of your life with mommie government taking care of you? Maybe I’m wrong, but if you had to survive on your own in the private sector, you could not cut it. I would be glad to compare portfolio’s anytime.

By jd

June 21, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

The bottom line is that the citizens and legal immigrants pay taxes to pay for our prisons and jails. Why should we house and feed illegals with our tax dollars just so we can be safe from criminals that shouldn’t be here anyway? We have plenty of our own criminals, thank you.

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Zip up your pants anonymous. Charliejoe is wrong again, but if I were you, I would save him a seat in the car for the Pride parade.

Maybe you can stop by Home Depot and pick up a couple young “undocumented workers” and have a Chorizo-fest in the backseat.

Here’s an IBD editorial that will help break it down for you. Illegals as a percentage of the population, commit more Americans do as part of the population.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=266108450281158

The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California’s prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces.”

The chance of being an incarcerated American in 1 in 136.

For an illegal is seems to be 1 in 44. Using Charliejoe’s figure of 12 million.

Now I don’t have a minor in Mathematics like Charliejoe there, but I know that 1 in 136 is a lot lower than 1 in 44.

Let’s hope he was never an “Educator” in the public school system, but it would explain the Georgia high school matriculation rate.

Oh yeah, when you and charliejoe get done listening to Bob Dylan, eating brie and channeling Rosie O’Donnell stop by the FBI website and check out the Most Wanted for murder. Just under 50% are you favorite victims, the illegals.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm

By Bruce Wilcox

June 21, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Ray you’re right about the government job, I was a firefighter for twenty years in New York, retired as a Ladder Captian back in 93’. After college I tried the private sector, found it boring and decided to follow the family tradition, making me the fourth generation of civil servants, who like you say, just could not hack the private sector.

Gee Ray, how long do you think you would survive in my oldcivil service job?

By Anonymous

June 21, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Wow, the gay-bashing really does form the core of all your insults, doesn’t it LT? It musta really ticked you off when you were called on your racism for you to resort to your “ultimate” tactic.

And the Rosie and brie comments… hah! You’re absolutely foaming. This is fun to watch. The radical-right rednecks always have a screaming meltdown when someone points out their utter lack of logic.

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

So Anonymous, I guess you won’t be responding to any of the facts posted above? How…..surprising.

I’m still waiting for you to post any facts to support your arguments. Some may exist, but you probably wore out your brain seeing racism around every corner.

Or it could be the “poppers” consumed in a Piedmont Park restroom. Here’s a health hint for you. Don’t keep the change.

You and Brucie deserve every insult that is passed your way. Maybe next time you will think before you post. However, I really doubt it.

Viva los Estados Unidos.

LT5000

By Ray

June 21, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

LT, it is quite obvious you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make ‘em drink. Give it up my friend. And with the meeting tonight, I have called and emailing my commissioner to express my feelings, but, as I have a company to run and employees that count on me, I will be working. And Bruce, firefighters and police officers are the two government positions I will give you a pass on. I actually will give you my hats off and gratitude for that and actually buy your liberal, democratic a* a beer. But as for the rest of government workers…….

By Bruce Wilcox

June 21, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

LTie, charliejoe ripped your so-called facts apart, are you one of those who actually enjoys being beat on?

LTie, the only fact needed is there has been a law in effect since 1986, making another doesn’t change anything.

Ray, no problem, who knows we may cross paths sometime and I’ll take you up on your offer.

By LT5000

June 21, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Brucie,

I think thou hast become as delusional as Anonymous.

Those “so called” facts are actually THE FACTS. The kind that you and Anonymous like to ignore, while you spill your bilge.

Ray is right, trying to convince you two is a waste of my time. But I have to admit, it has been fun putting you in your place.

Just keep ignoring the facts and I’ll be happy to do it every time.

Adios amigos. Tenga un buen fin de semana con su novio Anonymous.

To everyone else who contributed to this board. God Bless.

Viva los Estados Unidos.

By Michael H. Smith

June 21, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

@Ray

Take heart Ray you might be able to attend that meeting after all, it is not being held tonight. A public hearing and board vote on the proposal are scheduled for 7 p.m. June 26 in the Gwinnett Justice and Administration Center auditorium in Lawrenceville.

From the AJC

Companies found in violation of the new ordinance could lose their county contracts, and illegal workers would be reported to the Department of Homeland Security.

The commission also is considering spending $256,500 to enable the county purchasing department to enforce the proposed changes in the ordinance.

“We’re trying to find small ways where we can have an impact [on the problem of illegal immigration],” said Commissioner Lorraine Green, who introduced the proposal. “There is a very definite expectation from the public that we do something about this problem. But the bulk of the problem is in Washington.”

Green said she couldn’t cite any companies that hire illegal workers getting hired to do county work. “We do need to do what we can to make sure that doesn’t occur,” Green said. County officials held the first of two public hearings on the proposal Tuesday. Nobody showed up.

End

@ Woody

Well Woodrow somebody is off on the count:

By Woody Bass

June 20, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

A reliable source informs me.. that there were about 30 people in that auditorium.

AJC Wednesday >

County officials held the first of two public hearings on the proposal Tuesday. Nobody showed up.

Either way, you did state the root accurately – apathy. But out of curiosity, may I ask just how long have you been involved in the immigration issue?

To Madame Commissioner:

I highly applaud your effort Commissioner Green. You may be somewhat ahead of the curve, though, SB 529 did clean up the Medicaid rolls a bit and timidly approaches denying state contracts to those who hire illegal aliens, at least your effort appears to be more aggressive and certainly if ENFORCED will give the county voters some reason to actually believe in part of their government working once again, after being down right lied to for far too many years.

What’s more important in your proposal is this reporting of illegal aliens. Hopefully this is a mandatory reporting? With penalties enforced on anyone who should do the reporting, that fails to make the reports, suffering some consequences?

As you know Commissioner Green and as you have stated correctly, “the bulk of the problem is in Washington D.C.”. The greatest failure of the 1986 IRCA amnesty law was in the failure to enforce the Simpson Mazzoli Act, a law that most people never realized even existed, at least not by name. Because Simpson Mazzoli made the worker verification a “voluntary pilot program” its’ effectiveness was muted from the very inception and lacking in mandate. Today it remains just that, “a voluntary pilot program”. The I-9 form, another item most people don’t know exist and some don’t want to know anything about, should have been made a mandatory to use item in the employment process and phased into a fully operational worker residency verification system effective before a person could be hired, not after the fact a person has been hired. Needless to say, $256,500 is fair piece of change but in my opinion it will be well invested (not spent) for two reasons. First, to let the citizens of the county know, that our Commissioners respect the rule of law and intend to see to it that everyone else respects the rule of law and must live equally under the same rules of law as they apply respectively to “any person”. Two, not one red copper of taxpayer money should ever benefit anyone who breaks the law, let alone keep anyone gainfully employed for have broke it.

Thank you madam Commissioner for your ability and quite honestly your guts, in adhering to article 4, section 4, of our Constitution. At least in Gwinnett County we can say someone who has been elected intends to guarantee that we shall have a Republican form of government and understands the meaning of the equality clause found in the 14th amendment of that same said Constitution.

PS. Madam Commissioner should you ever need assistance in finding the contractors who hire illegal aliens I will gladly render what assistance I can in pointing out which rocks to overturn, so to speak.

By Michael H. Smith

June 21, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Especially for that mythical myth maker Mike King of the AJC Opinion Editorial Section:

Employment Down Among Natives In Georgia As Immigrant Workers Increased, Native Employment Declined in Georgia

WASHINGTON (June 20, 2007) — Some businesses in Georgia argue that they need large numbers of immigrants because there are not enough native-born Americans to fill jobs that require relatively little education. However, state employment data show that as the number of less-educated immigrant workers has grown dramatically, the share of less-educated natives holding a job in Georgia has declined significantly.

The full release is available on line at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/georgiarelease.html

By Woody Bass

June 22, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

LT5000: I think you missed this comment: “That includes the commissioners, their staff, some others who were there to accept awards and a few other stragglers.”

But you are correct… no one was apparently there to speak up for or against the ordinance.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 22, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

I bet they’d have a great turn out if they held it outside, let the supporters burn a cross and wear their funny pointed native customs.

By charliejoe

June 22, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Bruce, Don’t sink to LT5000’s level. I am a “cracker” who doesn’t appreciate your racism toward white people. Of course, I’m not originally from here. But you just lowered yourself and showed your true colors. Real nice. Yeah, maybe they’ll play banjos and have sex with their toothless sisters too! Prejudice comes in mamy stripes.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 22, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

charliejoe, I am one of those white people, it is in the history of the South and some of the displays on this page show racism is still alive here.

My true colors believe everyone is created equal and should be treated as such.

Many hypocrites here call themselves Christians yet call other people illegals, I guess some feel that they are better judges of people than the one they worship on Sundays.

You know what I found in twenty years of firefighting, all people bleed red and disaster believes in equal oportunity for all. Life is far too short for some of the hate shown here.

I apologize if I stepped over the line, but some people can do that to me.

By Akagi

June 22, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Everyone may be created equal, it doesn’t mean everyone has equal rights to live in the US and that means if you don’t have a visa and you cross the border in the dead of night, you are yes an illegal, have no right to be here and should be sent back if you are ever caught. And guess what, if you were an illegal alien in Japan or Australia or New Zealand, etc and you were caught, they would deport you. I guess they are all racist closet members of the KKK too.

And Bruce…I am not a Christian. I don’t tolerate people who break into the country no more than I would tolerate someone breaking into my home.

By Akagi

June 22, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

And Bruce, one more thing, since when was illegal alien a race?

Hint: Mexican and Hispanic aren’t races either.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 22, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Look just because you were lucky to be born here does not make you superior to anyone Akagi.

Does Bigoted sound better to you, not much of a difference, but since you like to nit-pick, Bigoted it will be.

By Michael H. Smith

June 22, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Akagi I agree with you and to add one other country to the lists of nations that demands their sovereignty be respected in law, if you are an illegal alien caught in Mexico you are either deported or you go to jail, charged with a felony. The other side of this argument can only play a trumped-up, made-up, race card in order to hide their burning hatred of Americans and their sovereignty. This country does not belong to the world or to Mexico or any country in Central America. The United States is the sole property of U.S. citizens and it is our human right to establish whatever government and make whatever laws as we see fit to govern ourselves and all others as we allow them to enter within the boundaries of our sovereignty as a nation.

Now onto a couple of other things you posted previously. I agree that citizenship as a birthright should be inherited and should not be obtainable by mere geography at the time of birth but the Latin phrase you used, correct me if I’m wrong on interpretation means, “of the blood”. I see a problem in that, because someone is bound to say that means that birthright citizenship can only be passed on from the male and not the female U.S. citizen? If that were the case I’d have a very big problem agreeing. I feel very comfortable with making the changes in plain English to avoid litigations and to retain equality of the genders. Simply inserting these words in another amendment should suffice.

All persons born to a U.S. citizen or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

As for the guest worker program, we already have guest worker programs. We really don’t need any more. The L and H series of worker visas should be sufficient evidence as to why. As it was cited from the floor of the Senate, 40% of illegal immigrations are attributable to visa overstays. The Congress once again needs to clean up the mess they’ve already created before creating another one. They can’t even get the passport mess straighten out. No wonder only 14% of Americans say they have confidence in our Congress.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 22, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

“The United States is the sole property of U.S. citizens”, what a concept, but let’s really look at it for a minute. I am one third Potawatomi, a proud tribe of Northern America, I feel I should pay one third less in taxes than the rest that invaded my country. Matter of fact I think all taxes should be based on how long your family has been here. Why should a new citizen or say a first generation citizen be taxed the same as I. It hardly seems fair, my family has fought in every war since the Civil War, hey we deserve more than any legal newcomer. Let us really do something important for a change, say a twenty year review of any legal newcomer to really see if they are an asset or a drag on society, if they do not measure up out they go. Soon with just accepting the right people to mix with real United States citizens we will have the perfect race.

By Michael H. Smith

June 22, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Oh did I know this was going to be the next move, to go down the memory lane of history. Well whippy, so what, there were many proud tribes of North America. I’m the great, great, grandson of the Muskogee Creek. I don’t feel anymore entitled to pay less tax because of that fact, I don’t want any damned apologies for the genocide that was committed against them, I don’t want forty acres and a stinking mule or in fact do I want the tribal lands that was taken from them restored to me or any of their descendants or anyone to write me out a big check because I’m red. If you want to look at it your way go right ahead and pursue your delusions, see where it gets you - probably labeled a nut-job that’s all.

You may or do think in terms of multiple races, I don’t buy into that mythical phony construct, science doesn’t support that fallacy either and no doubt remains that the human race – as in one - will ever be able to achieve perfection. As it was correctly stated this illegal immigration issue is not about race. Only bigots can think or speak of the issue in such terms.

U.S. citizens do own this country and have every human right to rule their nation as they see fit - call that the Declaration of Independence. The debate will continue and the longer it does the more likely the views I given – which are not only mine – will continue to gain ground till eventually the immigration policy of this nation will be fair to all. I’m still gloating over the headway that has been made. Last year’s Senate amnesty bill flew through passage, this one S1348 has been stopped, it couldn’t even get cloture. Of course, there has always been an ace in the hole so to speak – the House.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 23, 2007 1:17 AM | Link to this

“U.S. citizens do own this country and have every human right to rule their nation as they see fit - ” so as the good citizen you are you’ll welcome our new found citizens when the Bill passes with open arms.

And I do feel that the newer U.S. Citizens should have the same rights and be taxed the same as real United States citizens who have been around for awhile. Look if we’re going to be bigots why not go all the way?

Memory lane of history, yeah it’s sort of like bringing up the Declaration of Independence.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 23, 2007 1:22 AM | Link to this

That should read “I do not feel”…the newer U.S. Citizens should have the same rights and be taxed the same as real United States citizens who have been around for awhile.

By GIVE IT A BREAK!!!

June 23, 2007 2:43 AM | Link to this

OMG!!!!!!!!!! what else can I say…. esta es la mejor seccion de chistes de todo el periodico!!! De verdad les agradezco de todo corazon el haberme hecho reir y olvidar todos mis problemas con sus opiniones. Todo el mundo tiene derecho a la libre exprecion!! por eso somos THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE!!! keep it up!!!

By LT5000

June 23, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Brucie,

I saw you and charliejoe had a little fight. So sad you were such a cute couple.

You would call me racist, charliejoe would break out his calculator and do his own erroneous and dishonest statistical analysis of data I posted, and then you would accept it as fact and call me a racist again.

Have you two tried couples therapy?

charliejoe, I’m not sure why you were surprised at Brucie’s racism. Without facts, it’s all he has to offer.

For either of you to “sink” to my level, you would have to gain 50 IQ points and recieve testosterone therapy.

Peace out

LT5000

By Randy Cooper

June 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

I think you’re all out of touch with reality. Companies hire illegals not to line their pockets with wealth (wages are comparable to a legal worker) but because they are a ready, willing and able workforce. Do you think these companies have an HR policy that dictates lower wages because someone appears to be hispanic and their papers don’t all add up?

I find it really hard to fault someone who wants the American dream so bad that they walk hundreds or thousands of miles, cross a national border in stealth, live in constant fear of law enforcement and most don’t even know the language. I only wish half of the people who ARE citizens wanted to be an American as bad as these people.

Instead of deporting illegal Mexicans, we need to deport people who are unwilling (yet able) to participate in the economy (like not getting a job or selling dope) and ship their butts to Mexico.

What I see in the vast majority of people that y’all refer to as “illegals” are hardworking, God-fearing people who love their families and support them (both locally and by sending money to their families back home). They sure sound like Americans to me.

If you want to kick somebody out of the country, kick out the people who are a drag on it, not those contributing to it’s success.

By Michael H. Smith

June 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Excerpt from Bloomberg

Momentum Building

Still, one of Bush’s Republican allies in the Senate said momentum is building against immigration legislation.

Senator John Cornyn of Texas cited fellow Texan Kay Bailey Hutchinson, as well as Senators Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson of Georgia as examples of Republicans who might have supported the measure and are now opposed.

We're beginning to see some of the people that would have ordinarily voted to proceed with the bill to say, `Hey, this process is not fair, it's not transparent,''' Cornyn said in an interview on Bloomberg Television'sPolitical Capital with Al Hunt.” “The way this bill has come up has caused it some serious problems.”

End

Gee did someone turn-on a light bulb all of the sudden? The comedy show has only begun, once Teddy boy and Reid fly that “clay pigeon” this thing should fly apart literally in their face.

Go Mo!

¡Viva La Migra!

By Bruce Wilcox

June 23, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Funny how quickly the Republicans can turn on their fearless leader Bush and his Bill, who said they didn’t pay attention to polls.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 24, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this

“I urge members of both parties to support comprehensive immigration reform,” Bush said. This was when Fearless Leader was begging for some kind of legacy in his weekly redio address today.

By LJ

June 25, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Randy Cooper…” find it really hard to fault someone who wants the American dream so bad that they walk hundreds or thousands of miles, cross a national border in stealth, live in constant fear of law enforcement and most don’t even know the language. I only wish half of the people who ARE citizens wanted to be an American as bad as these people.”

Perhaps, but there doesn’t seem to be a real desire to learn the language either, for one thing. What about the hate mongers within their own ranks? You know the ones, those who stir up the rallies…those who attend a legislative meeting in California and cause such a ruckus the meeting is shut down…those who fly THEIR flag over OURS which is UPSIDEDOWN. Do I nag about that? You bet…because obviously there are those who think it is only a simple simbol. Ask those troups who fought all the wars…are they proud of that simple simbol? They understand the full meaning of someone who flys our flag upsidedown, and the even worse meaning of flying it that way UNDER a foreign country’s flag.

Prove to me that this type behavior shows how badly these people really want to be here as citizens.

Tell me why Pres. Fox visited three states last year for the very express reason of STIRRING UP THE ILLEGALS…WOW…where was OUR President then? Just where was he…oh I forget…he was down on his ranch.

Michael H. Smith…I’m not kidding, you need to run for president. To date I see not one of the persons who want to be president as worthy - translate to trustworth - of the position.

I love hearing about how a certain faction in this country will decide who will be next in charge. You can bet it won’t be for love of this country as much as getting their own way and shoving this down our throats…

If you don’t think there is a grand movement to take this country over, you had better be prepared.

By LJ

June 25, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Ray…”. .but, as I have a company to run and employees that count on me, I will be working. And Bruce, firefighters and police officers are the two government positions I will give you a pass on. I actually will give you my hats off and gratitude for that and actually buy your liberal, democratic a* a beer. But as for the rest of government workers…….. .”

And pray tell Mr. Ray, of what do you know about “the rest of government workers”??? Have you ever been one? Should we assume you know of several, giving you an indepth knowledge of the “average” government worker?

Did you know Mr. Ray that your government is slowly replacing government workers (most with several years’ experience) with contractors… for the SAME job? You know, kick out the - ahem - government worker and replace them with a contractor. Someone who has no benefits, no loyalty FOR the job…or any loyalty FROM their employers. Don’t like your job (even if the supervisor makes your life a living hell for no reason except he/she has a deep personality problem) then may we suggest you go out and get another one… Throw away employees.

Oh, and might I add, these contractors are costing you and me MORE than (in your words)…”the rest of government workers.”

Did you know that? Hmmmmm?

I know personally several government workers who do their job and do it well always under the cloud that good ol’ Uncle Sam will come in and kick them out and replace them with a contractor. And when I say kick them out, I don’t mean fire or lay them off. I mean put them in another existing position. Now does THAT make sense? If you are going to contract out the jobs, contract out those that are being vacated either by a person retiring or transferring or leaving the government. Don’t replace an existing employee who has a track record (common sense will kick in here that I am referring to good, hard working employees, not slouchs) with someone who really doesn’t give a flip.

You said you have a company to run. Tell me, would YOU do that???

Oh…and should we assume by your degrading blanket comment about “the rest of government workers”…that you are thrilled to death the IRS is trying to shove down our throats the idea of contracting out tax collectors’ jobs? So, you want the lowest bidder for the contract enabled to get into your personal, private financial information?

I have far more faith in “the other government workers”…than I do in the politicians who are in charge and I certainly do NOT want the lowest bidder on a contract having free access to MY private information.

By suwaneeeeeeee

June 26, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

god… black people really do ruin everything..they dont even care.

By Michael H. Smith

June 26, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

Well Woodrow the proposed county ordnance passed. About 50 or so people attended in support of the ordnance, including yours truly. Several spoke in favor and only two spoke in opposition – more on those two later and “fanning the flames of hatred”.

This ordnance goes beyond SB 529 to assure county taxpayers their tax money will not be spent to aid and further illegality.

Yeah, I feel good!!!

By Woody Bass

June 26, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

:o) I was watching on TV Michael, and it did look like a fairly good turn out. Also, I am beginning to see why so many speak so kindly of Mrs. Greene.

By Last American

June 27, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Houlihans hires illegals and pays them $4.00/hr. Try to get a job in Publix - you will get hired if you can not speak English. Little Big Giant they have to be illegals, they can’t speak English. Can someone please post the list of companies that hire illegals, I seem to have missed it. I also don’t think there is a thing that we can do to stop this.

By Sam

June 27, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

The heck with Green running for Chairman. She needs to go to Washington!

I watched on TV, too. I was impressed.

But, did I understand it right when Bannister said something about wanting to table the vote? Guess we know where he really stands.

By LJ

June 28, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

“I don’t pretend to know that I am on the right side or the wrong side of the American people,” responded Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., a supporter of the bill who added that once the provisions are explained to Americans, polls show they overwhelmingly support it.

I should think if Senator Graham doesn’t know whether he is on the right side or the wrong side of the American people…then perhaps the gentleman should retire from government service! What a strange thing to say…

CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who stood their ground and those who “saw the writing on the wall”! Granted, some of those who changed their view are doing so because they are up for re-election in 2008. Okay, but don’t think the American people aren’t going to watch you like a hawk if re-elected. Who knows, many may be offended by the fact that they feel their vote was changed only to pander for votes and it will be “business as usual” if re-elected.

GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ALL “LEGAL” IMMIGRANTS!!!!!

It’s been a long time since I’ve witnessed a true example of Americans coming together and their elected officials actually LISTENING to the AMERICAN PEOPLE instead of special interests and demands from people who have no right to demand anything!

Let’s not let our guard down though. We need to keep our elected officials on their toes about anything and everything that pertains to US and our Country!

YEAH!!!!!

By Michael H. Smith

June 28, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Two Senators who stand out in my mind as true champions for the American workers and the American people, are Senator Jeff Sessions (R) of Alabama and Senator Byron Dorgan (D) of North Dakota. Hopefully in 2008, we Americans will give these two Senators the kind of help they really need in the Senate, to represent our interests by defeating and replacing those pro- amnesty pro-guest worker pro-illegal immigration Senators who have done nothing but make a mockery of enforcing our immigration laws for years.

Enforcement First: Internal enforcement of current laws on the books and secured borders.

Do that for the next 20 years and no amnesty will be needed.

By Bruce Wilcox

June 28, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

Republicans in the US Senate today proudly voted to keep the 1986 Reagan laws on immigration, meaning nothing has changed. Poor lame duck Bush, as much as he begged, his own party deserted him.

But thankfully in Gwinnett they can tell someone who has a contract with the county to fire an illegal, if not they may or may not do something. Best part, the feel good law only cost the taxpayers $250,000 dollars.

By Michael H. Smith

June 28, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

America has witnessed today the tale of two birds: “The Clay Pigeon” and “The Lame Duck”.

By Michael H. Smith

June 28, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Republicans in the US Senate today proudly voted to keep the 1986 Reagan laws on immigration

So did Democrats.

By LT5000

June 29, 2007 8:59 AM | Link to this

Poor Brucie, he was stumping for the illegals for weeks on end. Now all he can do is attack Bush, while he cries in his Cosmopolitan.

Never mind the fact you were cheering him on just last week. What a loser.

God bless all the senators and good Americans who stood against this travesty.

I hope someone takes away Brucie’s belt and shoelaces this weekend. He seems depressed.

By charliejoe

June 29, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

DB5000 (you know what the DB stands for, there, LT),

Bruce probably does think all illegal aliens—however, when in the he77 was he cheering Bush on? I looked back up at most of the comments and didn’t see anywhere that he REMOTELY supports your fuhrer or cheers him on. At least you’re consistent with your misleading claims and lies, liar whor, liar whor, you know it!

P.S. On a totally unrelated topic, everyone should watch “This Boy’s Life”—funniest movie about a dysfunctional family ever—and Robert DeNiro is at the top of his game.

By LT5000

June 29, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

To Charliejoe aka Brucie’s Teabagger in Shining Armor.

From Brucie’s first of many ignorant posts.

When the Bush/McCain/Kennedy Immigration bill passes this summer all these feel good local laws will be rendered moot. It will be interesting to see how many would actually inconvenience themselves to voice their opinion against another human attempting to better themselves.

Now you can go back to “dry-gulching” your manhood while watching Leo DiCaprio

LT5000

By LT5000

June 29, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

And From Today’s Illegal Immigrant News:

* A Clayton County mom pleaded guilty to child cruelty and will testify against the man police said molested and abused her 8-month-old daughter so badly the child is paralyzed, prosecutors said.*

Chia-Duron is charged with aggravated battery and aggravated child molestation in the incident that was reported Christmas Day. He is not the child’s father, police said.

Chia-Duron tried to have his case dismissed by claiming police violated the Vienna Convention of 1963 by not advising him when he was arrested that he had the right to call the Mexican consulate in Atlanta. Both he and Mata are in the this country illegally, Turner said.

Charliejoe and Brucie will be holding a candlelight vigil for Chia-Duron, because he was only coming here to better himself. Please contact them for details.

LT5000

By Bruce Wilcox

June 29, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Lt your bravery behind a computer screen amazes all. I did think the Bill would pass, I didn’t think that there were that many stupid republicans, but I forgot, most represent the South.

Southerners like you LT remind us all of what the South was during the 60’s and segregation. But now your grand wizard is talk radio and clueless politicans, your computer screen becomes your sheet, keeping alive the cajoneless typical redneck.

By LT5000

June 29, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Brucie, your ignorance amazes me.

A) I’m not from the South.

B) You have to pull out the hackneyed 60’s segregation comparison. I guess Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have taught you well.

B) You accuse me of racism and then call me a redneck while comparing me to the KKK.

Really, your consistent inaccuracies, false predictions and comparisons on this board is comical.

Tell me who you are pulling for in the World Series and Superbowl and I will bet on the other team. Money in the banco.

Face it, you lost. Your illegal alien Z visa wet dream is over.

Unfortunately, the illegal alien invasion is not. Enforce the borders now.

La Raza = The Klan with a Tan

LT5000

By Bruce Wilcox

June 29, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Like most Southerners you’re just too dense to understand that by not addressing the immigation problem now, nothing changes, zip, nada. The invasion continues, the cheap labor, the ones you must be in direct competition with, the drain on social services and our schools. The same laws, the same enforcement, we have had since 1986 that allowed the 12 million here just remain. Did talk radio explain to you how this is a win? Didn’t think so, they didn’t explain that there would be 12 million more taxpayers, but fools like you will keep boo-hooing how they don’t pay taxes while you celebrate not allowing them to do so? Think I’ll go talk to my lab, she doesn’t drool as much as you lt. This is a dead issue, beaten to death, unless you have have some brillant insults from your second grade hankbook?

By LT5000

June 29, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Brucie.

Face it. You lost. The defeat of this bill is a win for the American people.

The effort to push this through has done a world of good. It pointed out that the laws from the 1986 bill are not being enforced.

Polilce are not checking immigration status of teh 1000’s of drunk driving Mexicans booked every year.

Personally, I believe the groundswell of people calling their senators to defeat this bill will actually force the government to do something about it.

If they don’t, then the states and counties will start to pass laws and enforce them.

Of course, we will hear you cry and whine like the little b*** you are. But with every Rosie O’Donnell moment you have, please know that I am smiling at your despair.

If you ever find America too cruel, I’ll gladly buy you a one way ticket out of here. I’m sure several members of this board will contribute.

Adios puto

LT5000

By Bruce Wilcox

June 29, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Lteehee, the major problem is that by listening to talk radio folks like you just nod and drool at the sound. If you or the grand wizards of the airways actually knew and/or inderstood the limitations of the 1986 law they would realize there is very little in the way of enforcement in it.

But by the ignorance that you are so proud of we will be stuck with the law for at least another two years.

But keep your eye on fence like a good boy while 60% just cross at the boarder crossing with forged papers.

By Michael H. Smith

June 30, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

Feel Mo Good Commissioner Green

• United States Code o TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY -CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY -SUBCHAPTER II - IMMIGRATION -PART VIII - GENERAL PENALTY PROVISIONS

Section 1324a. Unlawful employment of aliens

(a) Making employment of unauthorized aliens unlawful (1) In general It is unlawful for a person or other entity - (A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3) of this section) with respect to such employment, or (B)(i) to hire for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) of this section or (ii) if the person or entity is an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 1802 of title 29), to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) of this section. (2) Continuing employment It is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for employment in accordance with paragraph (1), to continue to employ the alien in the United States knowing the alien is (or has become) an unauthorized alien with respect to such employment. (3) Defense A person or entity that establishes that it has complied in good faith with the requirements of subsection (b) of this section with respect to the hiring, recruiting, or referral for employment of an alien in the United States has established an affirmative defense that the person or entity has not violated paragraph (1)(A) with respect to such hiring, recruiting, or referral. (4) Use of labor through contract For purposes of this section, a person or other entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange, entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986, to obtain the labor of an alien in the United States knowing that the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3) of this section) with respect to performing such labor, shall be considered to have hired the alien for employment in the United States in violation of paragraph (1)(A).

Section 1324b. Unfair immigration-related employment practices

By Bruce Wilcox

June 30, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Look at the bright side, it is only costing the county taxpayers a mere $250,000 to double check if employers are following the 1986 law. And all the county can do is tell the employer to fire the employee, then the MAY’s begim. If the employer doesn’t fire the employee, the county MAY turn them in to Homeland Insecurity, they MAY lose their contact with the county. I guess that MAY depends on who the employer MAY be.

Green, keeping the townfolk happy.

By Michael H. Smith

June 30, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Thank you Commission Green for giving Gwinnet County a bright side to look at. It’s like, “Morning in America”, all over again. Or make that, Again! Again! And uh, Again!

Don’t sweat the small stuff Commissioner Green; $250,000 is mere chump change when invested to insure the sanctity of our laws and maintain the sovereignty of this Republican form of Government mandated in Article 4 Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution, as we are, “a nation of laws”.

Thanks to you Commissioner Green all those legitimate businesses who faithfully observed the law in hiring only eligible Legal Aliens and U.S. Citizens, they will no longer suffer in the shadows, those foreboding shadows cast by illegality that has unfairly discriminated against them; Year, afta year, afta year, lie, afta lie, afta lie, time, afta time, afta time, afta time, from lawfully and fairly obtaining contracts awarded by this county.

Considering Commissioner Green, that now as in the case of Mexico alone, $25 billion plus in remittances a year are taken out the U.S. economy, a lot of local businesses should thank you as well; though no comprehensive study at this time has been published certainly a reasonable cause exists to suggest that they will benefit far more in cash receipts from the lawfully employed U.S. citizens when the money remains at home in this country and county, than this mere pittance of $250,000 you’ve invested to protect their civil rights?

No less will the citizens of this county thank you equally as well Commissioner Green, though no comprehensive study at this time has been published to a-s-certain the probable decline in crime that will result from the loss of illegal alien employment, certainly a reasonable cause exists to suggest that those who prey on the illegal alien population will no longer have as much fertile ground to perpetrate their crimes? What costs will this save Gwinnett taxpayers? What enhancements to our quality of life will we reap from such a wonderful loss?

No doubt the county will pay out less money in all services consumed by the illegally hired illegal aliens when the jobs illegally given them are no longer available, that were once derived from contracts awarded by this county?

Perhaps Commissioner Green, you might want to consider preparing a yield of return on that $250,000 invested. I’ll bet you a steak dinner Commissioner Green that if such a comprehensive financial statement was ever provided and confirmed after the fact, a lot of citizens in this county would be elated to see just how well their shares in the county have preformed. In fact, they will probably only bemoan that the shares they hold in the stock market have under preformed against their local real estate portfolios.

Thank you Commissioner Green for not making a grand comprise of our laws in settling for an odious bargain with the “insulting” arrogance of corruption.

By JD

June 30, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

Some thoughts and questions:

Is it possible to discuss the illegal (assume emphasis on the word illegal) immigration issue without attacking the character of anyone who disagrees with your position?

Is it possible to reach agreement on the need for a workable solution to the illegal immigration problem in the US?

Is it possible for everyone to agree that no solution to the illegal immigration issue is going to satisfy everyone?

The extreme right is probably going to have to accept that most of the illegal immigrants currently here are going to be staying here and not as some kind of permenant lower class.

The extreme left is probably going to have to accept that our borders are going to have to be sealed and that some of the illegal immigrants that are currently here do not deserve to stay here.

Big business is going to have to accept that as soon as the illegal immigration issue is resolved, the low wages/benefits they are currently paying illegals are going to start going up.

Everyone in America is going to have to accept that there will be costs that will have to be borne in resolving this issue - higher prices for some goods and services - at a minimum.

The illegal immigrant community is going to have to accept that America does not owe them anything and there is probably going to going to be price to be paid for their past illegal behavior.

The US government is going to have to accept that more than 60% of its citizens will not accept new promises to deal with this issue effectively - it is going to take measurable results. Put another way, most Americans have come to the realization that you cannot fix a bad law (Simpson-Mazzoli) with another bad law.

One of the issues I struggle with is what to do about the illegal immigrants who have committed no crimes other than the ones directly related to illegal immigration. Unfortunately, one of those crimes is identify theft/document fraud - right now - I don’t know how to deal with the illegals that have committed identify theft in order to live and work in the US.

Another issue that I struggle with is the automatic renewing of Z visas instead of requiring all illegals who wish to live in the US to pursue citizenship. This is especially troublesome given that the “penalities” in the proposed bill that was just defeated did not apply to anyone who did pursue citizenship.

Again - I ask - is it possible to have this discussion on the issues - without the name calling?

By Michael H. Smith

June 30, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

The “Moderate Right” will not accept that most of the illegal immigrants currently here are going to be staying here and will never, absolutely never, agree to some kind of permanent lower class or any other sub-class establishment of a separate but equal society! Any man or woman who comes to this country legally under the many current “guest worker programs” in existence who has abided by our laws should always have access to the sole existing traditional pathway to U.S. citizenship through the naturalization process or no such visas should ever be given to anyone for any purpose period. The Moderate Right will NEVER accept in any form the establishment of indentured servitude or slavery ever again existing in this nation.

The “Moderate Right” has always held as centerpiece to its’ design of immigration reform a forced attrition through enforcement of current laws on the books to provide “a pathway of repatriation” for illegal aliens already here and only demands rounding up “criminal aliens” for immediate deportations, the number of which is now estimated to be over 600,000.

The “Moderate Right” has never demanded “sealing the borders”, as that would be the extreme right. Instead the Moderate Right only insists that our borders and ports “be secured” against all illegal invasions in accord to Article 4 Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

The Moderate Right and many others are convinced with good reason that the U.S. Government has only lied to the citizenry and will have to prove enforcement first, before the Moderate Right and many others will consider any concessions being made or considering increases in the numbers of allowable legal for admissions to the United States. Enforcement first with nothing else attached. No bargains, no amnesties, no triggers, no gimmicks, no compromise of existing laws in plea bargaining. Most now realize that “The Simpson Mazzoli Act” is a good law that was very, very, badly enforced in making a total mockery of justice.

The Moderate Right demands no more that is presently found in Article 1 Section 8 clause 4 of the U.S. Constitution “a uniform rule of naturalization” whereby the 14th amendment protection clause remains applicable against any preference being given or otherwise occurring against one alien nationality over another alien nationality without just cause. And as submitting for “just cause” amending the 14th amendment thusly to rectify an empirical violation via “Anchor Babies” to the wrongful entitlement of birthright citizenship, where inheritance not mere geography, should be the canon to determine and establish citizenship by birth.

All persons born to a U.S. Citizen or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The Moderate Right demands that the Mexican government, the Mexican people, Central American Governments and Central American people solve their poverty problems and that all others stop demanding that the United States should remedy their pitiful situations in life by changing our laws for transient causes to accommodate what these others refuse to provide for their own citizens.

Senate bill S 1348 is dead and so are the Z and other visas contained in it so worry about making our government enforce the laws written and most Z visa and other visa overstay concerns will vanish in time.

The Moderate Right demands that the Mexican government, the Mexican people, Central American Governments and Central American people solve their poverty problems and that all others stop demanding that the United States should remedy their pitiful situations in life by changing our laws for transient causes to accommodate what these others refuse to provide for their own citizens.

Yes it is more than possible to have a discussion without attacking anyone so long as reality is not dismissed or delusional demands are made that ignores the fact that we are a nation of laws all of which must be enforced equally in regards to any person. To do contrary to this is an egregious attack on, not only the Moderate Right it is as well a violation of every U.S. citizens civil rights. U.S. citizens cannot choose the laws they want to break and receive an amnesty nor should any other alien, legal or illegal. Equal, means, equal.

By JD

June 30, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

Michael,

Interesting post. While I suspect that we disagree on some points, I won’t argue against what I consider to be the crux of your post - “Enforcement first with nothing else attached. No bargains, no amnesties, no triggers, no gimmicks, no compromise of existing laws in plea bargaining.”

I suggest that now is the time to keep the pressure on our elected officials to do honor their oaths of office when it comes to enforcing our current laws. I have, in fact, begun contacting both Georgia Senators, my Representative, and our President to do exactly that.

By Michael H. Smith

June 30, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

JD,

I have written endlessly to the elected until there seems to be no further reason to write. For what it is worth, allowing those who are already here to stay would be the first repeat step taken to ignore enforcement once again. We have done amnesty without enforcement and the results have proven disastrous. This time, let’s try doing enforcement without amnesty, instead of reapplying the definition of insanity to our immigration policy.

I intend to vote some people out elected office and keep others from ever getting into office. Perhaps then my endless writings will finally get the message across. I will never stop my fervent fight against illegal immigration and wrongful immigrations because of the various virulent anti-American causes behind them.

By JD

June 30, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Here is a riddle: What is the best part of hitting yourself in the head with a hammer?

Answer: Stopping.

Put another way, we are in agreement about voting some people out of office and preventing others from attaining higher office.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 1, 2007 1:06 AM | Link to this

By doing nothing, we solve nothing. Instead of adding 12 million taxpayers some would rather stay with the same failed policy for the next couple of years. A 350 mile fence along an 1800 mile boarder, it sounds like something out of a road-runner cartoon and most just travel through legal boarding crossing using forged documents.

What really bothers me is how many dishonest and corrupt companies Gwinnett deals with, we must have wasted millions, where was the oversight in the first place?

By JD

July 1, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Bruce -

To your point about do nothing and solving nothing - I understand your point. I suggest we (American citizens) don’t have to accept doing nothing - there are existing laws that, if properly enforced, will begin to deal with the seemingly never ending tide of people illegally crossing our borders and overstaying their visas. On your point about a lack of oversight - we are in complete agreement - again I suggest we start by demanding that our elected officals do their jobs instead of looking the other way.

An article (link below) - from the San Francisco Chronicle - does a great job explaining why the bill should not have passed.

My favorite quote from the article -

Advice to Washington politicians who want to pass a bill that grants citizenship to some illegal immigrants: Don’t call it “reform.” Reform is supposed to curb abuse, not codify it.

Don’t call your bill “comprehensive” — when in fact it is clearly designed to do everything but craft solid policy, and loaded with amendments to sell voters on the window dressing of beefed-up enforcement likely to be administered by officials with only a passing interest in deterring cheap labor from coming across the border.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/01/EDG3IQ8J6L1.DTL