Norcross.Talk

By katie

July 17, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

I’ve lived in downtown Norcross, across the street from Thrasher Park and now I live in another Norcross neighborhood. I can say, since I’ve lived in both areas, that people are friendlier outside the ‘city’ limits. Most of the people I knew in the downtown area were stuck up and rude. The people I live around now are hard working, nice people who spend more time with their children and less time peering over their fences to see what their neighbors are doing. I am very disappointed with the City of Norcross with the lack of effort being made to clean up areas of Norcross that aren’t within City limits. Everyone who lives here pays taxes but those of us who don’t live near downtown see very little money being spent in our neighborhoods. It makes us angry. We don’t feel welcome in city events and are frowned down on. We will remember this on election day.

By Linda

July 17, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Ofcourse you’ll have TWO Norcrosses. Years ago, probably about 10-15, everyone (commissioners, etc) decided they could only “keep” up part of Norcross. I was told this by several very reputable sources. Ofcourse, they kept the part that was near and dear to the commissioners up and let the rest go to hell in a matchbox. The area around I-85, especially east of I-85 was ignored, while downtown Norcross/ Peachtree Corners was kept up and watched. Ms Webb has always kept her area up. All this while the unincoporated part of Norcross was overlooked and taking a nose-dive to “ghetto-gang” land. Gwinnett Village should include ALL of Norcross, especially unincorporated. Why shouldn’t Gwinnett Village included ALL of Norcross? They(the commissioners-Ms Webb especially) want their area all pristine so ofcourse they don’t want the bad part of Norcross included. Yet they are the ones who caused all the crap to start and continue while they had their noses up in the air because it wasn’t the city of Norcross. Did Ms Webb ever live around Jimmy Carter Blvd, Singleton Rd, South Norcross Tucker Rd? I DOUBT IT. Downtown Norcross area..ofcourse. That’s her “turf” and no one is allowed to dirty it up. Those who have lived in the area of Norcross that’s gone downhill, THINK. When did this starting happening? Did anyone do anything to address the problem? NO! That is why it almost makes my heart glad when I hear of crime in the Peachtree Corners area because I feel they are getting just a tidbit of what we had been suffering for YEARS. I am so glad to be out of Norcross. I left one (1) American on the block in what used to be a upper middle class neighborhood. Zoning/code enforcement knew me quite well. Those poor employees had and still have major problems. I invite, or should I say challenge Ms Webb and her commission “friends” to drive around the Jimmy Carter Blvd, Singleton Rd, Graves Rd area at night or even the daytime. They could see what they have let happen and realize it is only time before it creeps to their precious little town like KUDZU. Sorry, in my opinion, there should be only one Norcross. And the officials need to fess up to what they created and kick themselves in the behind for letting it happen. Has anyone else seen the drastic turn of unincorporated Norcross in the last 15 yrs? Ask our overworked/underpaid police and fire departments. I used to love Gwinnett but now I emphasize used to.

By LB

July 17, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

There are parts of Norcross that are very peaceful. Other parts are like being in a foreign country with nothing in English which I think should be addressed. If people want to be Americans they should not be allowed to exclude Americans from their stores by not using English. There are still other sections like Jimmy Carter and the trailer section at Indian Trail and I85 where if you are an American Black or White you plain out don’t fit. I have recently learned that many of these people are not here legally and some of them told me themselves. This is a law issue that should not have ever been allowed to happen.

I like to see Norcross as a wagon wheel. The core in the middle (greater Norcross) does not have any spokes that go out to the rim. What a shame. This type of segregation will eventually damage the axel.

By Jason

July 17, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

This is an unfortunately consequence of metro Atlanta’s obsession with splitting up into smaller and smaller pieces. The thinking is that we can draw invisibile lines around the parts of our communities that we like and ignore everything that happens on the other side of the invisible line. For a short while, that is true, but eventually the ignored area starts to have problems that overflow into the “nice” area. Drug dealers don’t care where the city limits are. Traffic doesn’t care either. The lack of cooperation amongst our several hundred different local governments gets worse and worse all the time.

But since the City of Norcross drew a line around themselves, they have no jurisdiction outside that line and now are powerless to do anything to deal with the problems outside the city borders that are starting to affect those who live inside those borders. It would be nice if we didn’t have to deal with the problems outside of our immediate surroundings, but that’s just not reality.

Until we stop breaking up into smaller and smaller pieces, problems will continue to be unaddressed in the “bad” areas and the consequences will continue to have an impact on everyone.

By KB

July 17, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks for a great article Woody.

There are areas that have a Norcross mailing address that have nothing in common with incorporated Norcross. There are many unincorporated parts of Atlanta, Duluth, Decatur, Marietta, etc. Patroling and enforcing laws in unicorporated Norcross like these other areas I mention is the job of the county police. That is a lesson that some people that have posted before me clearly don’t understand.

Even though the decision to not incorporate certain areas of Norcross may have been done many years ago, I would venture to guess the outcome of the decision would still be the same. Residents would not want to pay more taxes and the city would not be able to recoup their costs in protecting the unincorporated areas of Norcross. Also, Norcross has been growing in size every year by anexing more and more property.

The resolution to these issues should come from Gwinnett County. They are supposed to be in control of these areas not Norcross. If you want to gripe and complain then gripe and complain at Gwinnett. The fact that a CID needed to be formed is an acknowledgement of a failure on Gwinnett County. I am greatful that the CID is going to do something about the issues but I still think it is sad that the CID needed to be formed.

By Woody Bass

July 17, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

You have all made some good points that I feel are worthy of responses… as well as been regulars to my column nearly since its inception… which I appreciate more than you know.

Katie: I like your perspective since you have lived in both areas. Its interesting to hear you say you prefer unincorporated Norcross vs the city. Based on my observations, Norcross has done a pretty good job of taking care of the historic area, but they still have some work to do mainly along the Buford Hwy corridor. Beyond that, I dont think they really have any responsibility other than to their tax payers. However, I think that again noting that they are involved with the CID and the CIA shows they are willing to effect change. I dont think they are necessarily at fault for the conditions we’re dealing with today.

Linda: It is interesting that you point out where the boundary for the Gwinnett Village cuts off at, because that is also where the majority “problems” within city limits lie. The interesting thing about Buford Hwy that I have noticed is, its like that all the way from Fulton, through Dekalb and into Gwinnett. And you are absolutely correct about the Commission… it seems the area was forgotten, which leads me to believe that perhaps our representative in the commission hasnt done enough to change that.

LB: Excellent analogy about the wagon wheel!! Wish I had thought of that one myself, though I think segregation is a bit of an extreme word to use, however, I think I understand the point you were trying to get across.

Jason: You bring up an interesting point about borders that I have been really thinking about alot lately and just how I feel about them especially with the illegal immigration so much in the forefront both at the state level and nationally. While I recognize their importance… I also sometimes think that borders end up doing more harm than good. Where Norcross is concerned, the good is that they are able to concentrate those tax dollars on a specific area and doing more good (usually) more effectively and sometimes faster. I dont know that Gwinnett Village incorporating as a city is necessarily the right thing to do, but I dont necessarily think it is something that should be ruled out as well. I think we should really sit back and examine how Sandy Springs and St Johns Creek does after they get going before we consider that.

KB: Your very welcome. And I have been wanting to examine the police presense in the area and plan to at some point talk to them and the GV as they are concerned as well. I should note though that I have had to call them a few times since moving here, and they have been very responsive and helpful. Once again, I agree the county should be more directly involved, but I dont think we can wait for them to wake up and realize that anymore. We (via the GV) are going to have to step up to the plate and effect that change ourselves. Then the commission will wake up and take notice.

Keep the feedback and responses coming!

Woody

PS: If there is something or someone anyone would like me to write about on the area feel free to comment here and Ill look into it. That is afterall how this column came about. So I should thank “Historic Norcross” for being my muse on this one.

By James

July 17, 2006 11:18 PM | Link to this

Clearly some people don’t understand how city limits work. Nor do they have an exact understanding of what the Gwinnett Village is. So to tackle the first thing…Ms. Webb can do nothing about anything outside of the city limits of Norcross. She can join boards and talk to the commissioners until she is blue in the face, but they are under no obligation to listen to her. If you want your neighborhood/area to be her problem, then lobby the city council to annex your neighborhood. Then you can b*tch and moan about what Ms. Webb does or does not do. In the mean time, go to your county commissioner with your problems. If they are rude and unresponsive vote against them. Even convince one of your more civic-minded (and smarter) neighbors to run. Issue #2: Gwinnett Village does not contain downtown Norcross. It only contains unincorporated parts of Gwinnett County in the Beaver Ruin/Indian Trail/Jimmy Carter area. It is a CID (Community Improvement District) in which the businesses within the CID have voluntarily decided to tax themselves (but not residents) to clean up the area. They are trying to rid themselves of the image of “ghetto-gang land” as Linda put it. The Gwinnett County Police Department is also very much a part of this effort and has started a special code-enforcement unit to go make people clean up. If you know of code violations call the police departments non-emergency line and inform them of the problem. Even if you don’t live in the area considered Gwinnett Village, they will come out and take care of the problem.

So yes, there are two Norcrosses. There are also two Duluths, two Suwanees, two Lawrencevilles. If you don’t live inside the cities, and you don’t want to be in them then you better start getting in touch with the county about your greivances. Don’t blame problems on the cities because they can’t fix them for you. And if your local government is not doing what you think it should be to help you, go out and VOTE or run for an office or encourage others to vote and run for office. Becoming a leader in your community and affecting change is much more beneficial than moaning about the problems and playing the blame game.

There’s my 2 cents and then some.

By katie

July 19, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this

Norcross has some real issues with drug and gang activity. It would be nice to see more police influence in areas other than the historic district.
Two months ago I had a water leak near the street. The city came and fixed it but left a hole in our driveway and sidewalk. I’ve called the city 5 times to ask when they will cement this area and no one has called or showed up. If I still lived in historic Norcross this would have been taken care of immediately. That is a perfect example of how those of us who live outside the downtown area are treated—like second class citizens. I have a master’s degree and two bachelor degrees, a good paying job and yet am treated like an illegal alien in my own neighborhood. We purchased our house because we liked it, not for where it was.

By Linda

July 19, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

In regards to my comment about the commissioners and lack of “caring” about the area outside of the city of Norcross, the commissions and all involved made the decision years ago. I think Ms Webb has been there since the railroad tracks were laid.

Several people have told me I should have run for office. However, I am very out-spoken on certain issues and for right now, I want to live.

It was said to hear of a murder/suicide in my old neighborhood last night. What scares me even more is the fact when someone checks out the site for child molesters, on some the address or zip is wrong. I have had to call the Sheriffs office on more than one occasion. Geeze, there must be 5-6 in the old neighborhood. And they are all foreigners…probably here illegally. I feel they should target the “bad” areas with more law enforement officers. Even if this means “borrowing” them from other locations, paying extra, etc. Go in and target the crap and try to run them off.

It is absolutely asinine to continue to have 2-4 patrol cars for a traffic violation because of language barriers. Especially, when they don’t have a license, never had a license, no insurance, no tag, DUI,etc. Check out the sheriffs website. I, for one, would transfer all these to a holding area for immigration to check out.

My calling the police on untagged/out-of-date/no tag vehicles in the street did some good. Most foreigners(especially my “legal” neighbors) don’t like the police to come out.

Does anyone remember the article about the area around I-85 & JC Blvd being one of the hottest areas in the south? It’s been a few years. We were right there with airport as far as the heat index.

Despite all the problems, they want to keep on going. Plow down the trees, pave the roads, turn your heads to all the illegal activities. Gwinnett will only become hotter and become what it reaps….hell.

The foreigners who are here legally are no problem. They “paid their dues”, “got their shots” and are, for the most part, productive members of our society and country and respect our laws.

The illegals sneak across the border, no shots and don’t give a crap about the US citizens. God only know what diseases they bring to our country. They drain our system dry and reproduce faster than rabbits. The majority are Catholic and hispanics feel young girls (14?) can have sex. Check your local health department. Beter yet, walk into the office on Georgia Belle Ct(Indian-Trail Rd) and LOOK!!!! OMG, all our future citizens are foreign. From 13 yr olds(PG) to mamas with 3-4 kids in tow and a stomach that sticks out. This is not meant to be a snide remark about the religion. It’s the facts…check it out for yourself.

It all boils down to the fact the “bad” Norcross needs an entire sweep and get itself back on it’s feet…at any and all costs to Gwinnett County. They owe it to their citizens.

By LB

July 19, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

To Woody,

You asked if there were any suggestions for your column. After reading Linda’s comment it really makes me want to know if others have encountered bad treatment by illegals.

Example: Seems like the culture of Mexican men and boys is to treat women like dirt. Somehow they get the idea that if a female speaks or is polite to them it is a pass in their opinion. A woman can be ugly as home made sin, skin falling off due to wrinkes, thick glasses and a wart on her nose being 100 years old. The Mexican guy only has to be 13 and they think they are being sought after. Needless to say, many of these people are here illegally.

Also, these boys think it is a sign of prestige to see how many school teachers they can upset. They will share test answers during a test and if they are spoken to or separated they will retort and say it’s their culture to “help” each other. If a teacher is persistant they will retort again and claim they are getting a warning only because they are Mexican.

Many of these young boys carry with them huge amounts of money, brag about their female encounters (you know what I mean), gangs and a host of other things that just are not American culture.

A personal experience I had with an adult Mexican several years ago: A man came to our church down on his luck. He is legal but had been out of work for a while. I knew my company had openings. I recommended him and he got a job. Within a couple of weeks I had to leave the job because he took my favor as a pass. His girl friends (more than one) were making their jabs at me as he sat there in pride. All I did was a favor and in return I was embarrassed to the point I didn’t even want to go back to church. I am an old married woman who just wanted to be nice.

These are all experiences I have had in Norcross with the exception of the adult man. The company is located near Radloff Middle School section and the people live around that area.

My opinion of Norcross at this time is about a 2 on a scale of 1-10. It used to be the coolest place to live several years ago. Since I have been bitten in a bad way by these people it really makes me think. Some of these people have told me themselves they are illegal. What now?

By NoAmericanTaliban

July 20, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

I live off Graves road in Norcross, although I’m actually closer to Tucker. Been here since ‘84. I’ve seen a lot of changes some good, some bad. As far as Norcross city vs. Norcross is concerned I’ve seen changes as well. I used to go to frequently go ‘downtown’ in from the mid-80’s till the late 90’s but then things changed. Got my hair cut there, went to festivals, pawned shopped, & eat there. One is the traffic - it can now take 30-40 minutes to get there & it is just not worth it. Another is the ‘better than everyone else’ exclusive attitude of some residents. Maybe they are recent transplants - who knows. I know a lot of residence of the city moved out when the price of housing went up & they cashed in. Some city officials have been good - some not so good, but there always seems to be some vile local politics that goes on. Wish I could vote in the Norcross elections - not sure why I can’t since my mailing address & post office is in Norcross.

LB - Norcross isn’t the only place that has a problem with young girls getting knocked up - I recently went to Utah & saw a lot of that going on there as well. All getting welfare - & they were not hispanics or Catholics. Maybe some birth control or education would help.

By MC

July 20, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this

^Good of you to point that out. It really threw me off how she implied that, among youth, carrying lots of money and bragging about sexual encounters were the exclusive provinces of illegal immigrants (“Mexicans”).

And, to Linda: we Catholics don’t believe in contraception, unfortunately for you. I know white couples with more than seven children, so to see you picking on a presumably Mexican (as opposed to, say, Colombian, Honduran or Uruguayan) woman, not to mention one who actually signed up for citizenship, for having “three to four children” is both laughable and sad. Parents with more than three or four children do not in the least base their decisions off the opinions of nosy, judgemental individuals like yourself. My own mother was one of six.

By Chuck

July 21, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

There always will be a lot of emotion and misunderstanding about why things happen where you live. I lived just outside of the city limits for 20+ years and 4 years ago moved into the Historic District. It did and does seem like two different worlds and I am still amazed at the number of people who still do not know where the Historic Downtown is. When I moved in town I started attending just about every city meeting I could to find out what was going on. Woody, I would suggest you talk to some of the Council Members and some of the other board members to get a better picture. The City does recognize that the two areas exist and are working to blend them together. This does not mean making Buford Highway look like the historic downtown nor does it mean allowing the Historic area to be erased. The CID’s western boundary is Buford Highway and goes down JCB and Beaver Ruin. The Norcross Downtown Development Authority (DDA) area of concern overlaps this Buford Highway corridor. The City has members on both the CID board and the Gwinnett Village Community Alliance (formally the GVCIA). This is not just to protect the interest of the Historic area but in recognition that the City’s viability depends on a health and viability of the entire City. Change happens slowly; but in the 4 years I have been here I have seen a marked change in the focus of the City. There were some (residents and Council Members) who gave the impression that a wall should be built along Buford Highway – that opinion is definitely a very small minority at this point.

Katie – I am sorry that you don’t feel welcome in the downtown and would suggest that you attend one of the free concerts in Thrasher Park. You may be surprised at number of people attending who do not live in the Historic District. And if you had driven through town you may have noticed this spring that metal plates covered holes in the road right in front of City Hall for 6 weeks.

By Bob

July 21, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

I’m surprised that some have found the people in the City of Norcross to be unfriendly. I’ve lived here for 16 years and the friendliness and camaraderie of the local people is one of the reasons my wife and I have stayed here. I’d like to see Linda take Chuck’s advice and attend one of the concerts to get a more current reading on the residents’ attitudes.

With respect to the parts of the city that share the problems of much of unincorporated Gwinnett County with a “Norcross” mailing address, let me just say that both the City Council and many concerned citizens are struggling with how best to deal with those issues. Annexation of some adjacent areas, rebuilding the infrastructure, tight code enforcement, and a more intense police presence might help, but 1) the City has limited resources and 2) not to diminish the importance of “fixing broken windows”, many of the problems run deeper than the crime rate itself. The solutions are elusive and must be long-term; for example we’re exploring with the Gwinnett Village Alliance how to reduce the mobility of people in the problem areas as stable home ownership can contribute enormously to lower crime rates. If anyone has a good, workable solution to any of these problems, I think any one of our Councilmembers would be willing to listen.

By Woody Bass

July 22, 2006 10:17 PM | Link to this

James: You make a good point about the officials who are not representing well. A subject I am tackling next week.

LB / Linda: I will tackle the subject of illegal immigration in the area for you. To be honest, it was one subject I was avoiding, however, it is very important topic to this area in particular that I dont think I can avoid anymore. So its on my list.

NoAmericanTaliban: I actually looked at some homes in that area. It seems there has been quite a bit of bad news around there. And your one of several people who have told me about how the area has changed. But the reason you cant vote in those elections is because your not inside the city limits.

Chuck: I totally recognize that the city probably does see the difference as well and I didnt mean to imply they didnt. In fact I am going to try my best to be at Monday nites meeting at the West Precinct. :)

Bob: I personally havent had anyone be unfriendly to me (except some certain drivers perhaps)… What struck me most was how some of the citizens in each area see the other. It appears to be more finger pointing than envy… and to be honest.. could be the underlying issue to the bigger problems? Im curious to know just how widespread it is.

By Jerry

July 23, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

People…please…the City of Norcross did not allow all of the illegal residents into this country. What they have managed to do is something the federal goverment has not done and now is regretting. They have managed to keep intact something sacred…a part of America and its past…Historic Norcross. If all along the City had been making the same mistake the Federal Goverment had…political correctness…Historic Norcross would no longer be. It would be overrun by the same type of riff raff that lies outside of the Historic perimeter. The City to a certain degree has been forced to cirle the wagons to survive. I compliment them for being bold enough to do so in this age of politicians trying to not offend the masses.I just moved to the Historic area by choice. The area I had lived in (Alpahretta) had just been overun by hurricane refugees whose understanding of quality of life was not in sync with mine. So I made the choice to live somewhere I feel more compatible and safer. You can blame the city all you want…but the issues are much bigger then what a city is doing or not doing. To all of those outside of Historic perimeter…here is a thought…what if Historic Norcross was not here. Would any of us be living here?

By MC

July 23, 2006 10:37 PM | Link to this

^My goodness. The coded racism is almost too much for my mental filter. Compatibility? Overrun? Sounds like you would enjoy a relocation to Vermont.

By Jerry

July 24, 2006 09:24 PM | Link to this

MC, Main Entry: com·pat·i·ble Pronunciation: k&m-‘pa-t&-b&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin compatibilis, literally, sympathetic, from Late Latin compati Date: 15th century 1 : capable of existing together in harmony

Main Entry: [1]over·run Pronunciation: -‘r&n Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): over·ran /-‘ran/; -run; -run·ning Date: before 12th century 1 a (1) : to spread or swarm over

I think you might have been dealt a bad filter.

By MC

July 24, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

Harmony takes two, friend. I do right now have a hard time believing that these insane swarms of hurricane “refugees” were just not willing to get along with you, period.

By pjt

July 24, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

I can’t quite put my finger on the differences between historic Norcross and unincorporated Norcross. I have lived in the area since ‘98 and have seen a deterioration of the quality of life. I personally am offended that my community has become known as Gwinnett Village. I wasn’t asked to vote on this name and there are negative connotations to the name. I mean we pay taxes just like the other areas, I really think it’s an issue of discrimination. If you look at the quality of parks, you can see the stark differences in what each community offers. Jones Bridge Park vs Shorty Howell. We don’t have a state of the are YMCA building or a boys and girls club - if we did, perhaps the quality of life could improve. Historically YMCA and boys & girls club serve low-income neighboorhoods, and where “More than a third of all families benefiting from YMCA child care reported annual incomes less than $25,000 and 60 percent earn less the $40,000” quoted from the YMCA website.
I still don’t understand why the YMCA of Norcross is in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Atlanta. Somebody has worked hard to make sure there are 2 distinct communities within Norcross and I’m hoping they’ll put Gwinnett Village as a priority “project” to bring it up to the same standards as historic Norcross.