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DEL.ICIO.USIs there life in Lawrenceville, Outside the Perimeter?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
True confession: I used to believe in the divine principle of Thou Cannot Live Outside the Perimeter and Survive. I was guilty of fear and loathing in living OTP.
This was during the time I lived in DeKalb County in the 1990s. Years packed with unexplained random losses of cable and electricity and birthdays ruined by outrageous ad valorem rates. And to think they call this kind of living divine.
That was before I considered life in Lawrenceville. Back when Gwinnett, instead of Forsyth, was prime suburbia and farmland-fresh horse manure still enveloped the air
Back when International House of Pancakes was the only international business on Jimmy Carter Boulevard and gang violence was limited to Scarface on VHS rented at the Blockbuster across the street from that same IHOP.
Back when Spaghetti Junction was not the home of the tractor-trailer jackknife maneuver and blasphemous drivers jumping into the sacred HOV lane with only one occupant.
Back when the Mall of Georgia was presumably being built at the edge of the South Carolina state line hours away from proper civilization. Back when I lived in my Decatur apartment unable to fathom living beyond Interstate 285.
This belief died for me when I began shopping for the true meaning of life just after the Y2K scare. I wanted a four-bedroom home, ITP please.
Mortgage lender: You can’t afford it.
Realtor: Too many potholes, too few sidewalks.
Thus, two years and two mortgage points paid later, I ended up in Lawrenceville, land of crape myrtles and cul-de-sacs. And at the end of every workday, I race up Interstate 85 at 25 mph to my lovely four-bedroom home that’s a skip away from the Mall of Georgia. Oh, the irony of me now owning their frequent shopper card.
The last time some non-Gwinnettians visited me, they wandered off toward Buford after not taking the 316 merge to my house. I got panicked cell calls from the wrong end of Sugarloaf Parkway. Then came their dramatizations about the 85/316 split being a horrific nightmare like they had been asked to part the Red Sea right there on the highway. Fear and loathing is still in its prime.
But really, isn’t suburban life in Lawrenceville worth tolerating all the fear and loathing and hyperventilating by those inside 285 who don’t know how good living is on the outside?
Permalink | Comments (201) | Categories: Jacqueline Bullard
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By AR
April 26, 2006 07:37 AM | Link to this
If you enjoy it, more power to you, but if I hear one more person who lives 20 miles OTP complain about the traffic in Atlanta, I will scream. If you live out there, you’re causing the traffic. And don’t ask for wider roads, ask for trains.
By COB
April 26, 2006 08:14 AM | Link to this
Suburbia is nice, it has it’s drawbacks.
By sue
April 26, 2006 08:19 AM | Link to this
You hit the nail on the head.Please ask for trains you fools
By carol
April 26, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this
Fun piece Jackie.And from one writer to another, very nicely written. smile Congrats on house, but I don’t envy you the drive everyday. All the best. Carol Gee, your absentee book club member and the author of the books; The Venus Chronicles and Diary of a ‘Flygirl’ Wannabe (Life Lessons of a Cool Girl in Training)
By DYJ
April 26, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this
There is life OTP, it’s just a different life from ITP. Both have the pluses and minuses. We bought OTP because, like you, what we wanted we couldn’t afford. Fair enough. We’re still close enough (12 miles) from some of our favorite ITP bars and restaurants. Our OTP luxuries are different - fantastic German bakery which I can walk to, great Super Target which is maybe 2 miles from our house, left our garage doors wide open overnight and no one touched a thing. Yet, when I’m dying for a Nut Brown Crown I have to drive about 13 miles. Not good. Not bad. Just different.
By Jason
April 26, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this
I weighed the benefits of ITP vs. OTP when I bought my house a few years ago.
I think I made a great choice by moving into the Northcrest neighborhood about 1/4 mile OTP with private access to the highway. I can be on 85S, 85N, 285E, or 285W in less than 5 minutes. That’s one of my biggest problems with the OTP areas—it takes 20 minutes to get to the interstate and 30 minutes without traffic to get anywhere. I can get to the airport in 30 minutes, Marietta in 20, and work in 8.
Oh yeah, I’m in the Lakeside High School district which is one of the top schools in Georgia AND the most diverse. Both are important factors in me choosing a home. I’m white, but I want my kids to know everyone else isn’t.
By GW
April 26, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this
Go ahead and move 100 more miles outside of the perimeter if you want real peace. The folks in metro Atlanta don’t even know there are such places. They all think inside the perimeter is a state, the only state.
By SLC
April 26, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this
There is more to Atlanta than ITP. I am so sick of the division of the city by who lives ITP vs. who lives OTP. Those of us OTP pour just as much money into the ITP attractions as you people do that live inside the perimeter. We support the economy that you all enjoy. We also have much bigger houses and don’t resort to living in 800 square foot condos with an outrageous mortgage to pay. Yes - we sit in traffic. What major city in the US doesn’t have traffic woes? Yes - I cause traffic because I choose to live in Gwinnett Co. I’m also smart enough to know when I’m getting better value for my dollar. The pro-ITP people think that all of us outside have no lives and we’re all soccer moms driving our minivans from place to place with our screaming kids. Just so you know, plenty of young, educated couples live OTP and find a lot of pleasure out of doing so. There is plenty of life OTP!
By dumblondie for Michigan
April 26, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
What’s a perimeter?
By jules
April 26, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
Doesn’t it just depend on what your needs are? When we moved out to Crabapple area, I needed the long, windy roads, the horse farms, and the schools. And everything I need to do I can do within about a 5 mile radius of my house. True, going into Atlanta is a major event - but I don’t live in Atlanta - I live in Alpharetta and glad to be there.
By Hernandos
April 26, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this
Is there life OTP? Only you happen to live there… I’ll see you at Applebees!
By Jamie
April 26, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
I live otp and have since I moved here 11 years ago, and I don’t cause traffic because I don’t go itp for anything other than random events- and life is beautiful out here. Sure I could make more money if I worked itp but money isn’t everything.
By JohnF
April 26, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
I guess it depends where you are OTP or inside. I live in Brookhaven in a small house I bought years ago…My commute is three miles. We all have decent yards full of trees and wildlife. My brother lives in a nice area near Alpharetta but it’s already getting too congested and the pristine forests are going fast. It takes him as much time to get to 400 as it is from 400 to 285…but he has kids and needs a sizable place that he can afford. But aside from the commute nightmare he has plenty of stuff to do out there and there are decent places to eat..I guess. But you better not try to walk, run or ride a bike OTP. I cycle a lot and I rarely have a problem riding around Buckhead, Chastain and north ITP…but if I venture out to Marietta, Douglasville or Norcross I’m honked at, flipped off, and was once run off the road. If I ever move outside the perimeter it will be way out like Blue Ridge or Alabama.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
I have lived in the Emory area for almost 20 years now and I can’t imagine living anywhere else in Atlanta. I love the beauty and diversity of my part of town. Great restaurants, great schools, lots of trees and sidewalks, and great neighbors. It does come with a hefty price tag but for my family we can swing it and it is worth it. I realize not everyone has the same needs or tastes. But I must admit I find Atlanta suburbia quite ugly— nothing but strip mall after strip mall and they cut down all the trees and too many cluster homes and cookie cutter houses that all look alike. Not to mention the traffic. I almost never have to get on the interstate and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. I am glad folks like it out there but it’s not for me and most of my in-town neighbors feel just as passionately about it as I do. Plus there are many great up-and-coming neighborhoods in Atlanta which are close to everything and still on the affordable side and they are great investments because they go up in value very fast. We have lived in our house only 8 years and it has more than doubled in value in that short period of time. In 15 years we will be able to retire just by selling our home. How many OTP people can say that.
By Syd
April 26, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this
Oh lord this ITP v OTP thing is creeping up again. Here is the deal folks…first of all, I live ITP. And I have lived OTP, in Roswell. As an ITPer, I can honestley say that the ITPers are the ones who typically bring up the topic and do so with a somewhat “snobby” tone. Yes there is plenty of live OTP. When I lived in Roswell, everything I needed for daily live (gas, grocery (chain and farmers market), dry cleaners, etc) was within 2 miles. My commute to work was 12 miles and my commute to downtown was 16 miles. ITPers, 16 miles is not that far for a 2-3 time a week commute. Would I want to do it everyday, no, but for events, no problem. As far as culture, some of the best art galleries in metro ATL are in Historic Roswell. And, why is live theater declining in ATL but on the rise in the ‘burbs??? Trains you ask? Have you been to the Northsprings station on 7:30 in the morning. The parking deck is packed. Give them more parking and take the train to Windward and they will be estatic. They want it up there, trust me. I could go on and on…but I have work to do. Just everyone chill out. Last time I looked, all the IPTers were supposed to be the liberal, appriciete everyone for whom they are crowd. Sometimes it sure doesn’t look that way. Got to go and fight traffic on Peachtree now.
By Jaze
April 26, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
My husband and lived in town for a total of 3 years, a year in Midtown and 2 years in Buckhead. When the expiration of our lease started approaching we decided that we wanted more for our money so we decided to start looking OTP. We ended up in Douglasville which was a total culture shock, but we love our house. Our house has all the upgrades and a nice size yard and the price wasn’t bad either. When we were in town our friends enjoyed meeting and hanging out at our place because we were so close to everything. Even though we’re near Alabame (LOL!) we have more space and a little more freedom to entertain. I admit, I miss the city every once in a while, but pulling into my driveway and seeing my big, beautiful house on a hill makes it all worth it.
By FJT
April 26, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
That’s funny because I’ve been battling this all weekend. I too live in Lawrenceville have been for the past 8-9 mos. Before then I was in Snellville however any way I look at it there’s always gonna be some woes. Yes there’s major traffic on 85, yes there’s the nice suburban living where everything is a hop & a skip away then you have the great school system but at the same time I honestly miss my inside the perimeter life. OTP is what’s realistic, smarter for the family & your money but ITP is where the happiness is & you cant have both. I’m debating about moving back inside. Basically I’m saying no matter what side of town, county, city you live you’re gonna deal w/the pros & cons. ATlanta to me is EXTREMELY!!! Overcrowded & this just happen within the last 5 years.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
SLC, there’s more to Atlanta than ITP? No there isn’t. That’s why your mailing address says SugarBush or something and mine says the CRUNK’ Ol ATL 2006!
Heck with yo’ OTP pumping money into “attractions” that’s why we have conventions, the world congress center, and people from Alabama. You just keep pumpin’ money into Bass Pro Shops and Nascar.
You don’t pump significant money into the ITP services—the sewers, the roads, the police and any of the other services you depend on to make your Gwinnetian rump feel safe and clean while you drivin’ through my gangsta ‘hood.
You have a bigger house? Than who? Maybe you staked a claim on a little more land (in a poltergeist-style subdivision w/ no trees). Heck, you probably sittin’ on an Indian burial ground! 800 square foot condos? That’s bigger than what most of the illegal alien service people you employ share for a family of 6 that make up a huge percentage of yo’ population.
Your smart enough to what? Hopefully smart enough to steer clear from my Gat!
Plenty of young educated couples OTP? Isn’t that when one of you finished high school and then married your cousin?
Only thing OTP has on ITP is lot’s of Zaxby’s! When we gettin’ them tasty-ol birds ITP? FOR REAL!
By Amy
April 26, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
I agree that those who live way outside the OTP cause traffic. Especially Gwinnetians. I live 2 feet outside 285 but I also work 2 feet outside 285. I live less than a mile from work and sometimes it takes me 30 minutes to get home. I’d walk, but I’m too afraid of getting runover!! BUILD SIDEWALKS, BIKELANES AND TRAINS!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
I find it interesting that when in-town folks point out nice things about where they live and cons of where they don’t then they are being snobby, but when OTP people do the same thing they are not. Fascinating double standard. As I said in my post, different stroke for different folks. I don’t fault people for living OTP or liking it. If I liked it I would live there, too. But I happen to find a 16 mile commute to be very long especially when it’s stop and go all the way. And I don’t think anything in old town Roswell can hold a candle to the High Museum. But maybe that’s just me, too. My brother-in-law lives in Alpharetta and everytime he comes to the city he comes with a gun in his glove compartment because he is so paranoid about crime in the city. Which I find is often the perception that OTP people have about in-town life. Crime is everywhere, folks, we don’t have a monopoly on it intown.
By AR
April 26, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this
BigSquatch, you’re a comic genius. You and I should go in on opening a Zaxby’s intown. Those tasty birds will make us rich!!
By SLC
April 26, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this
Dear Bigsquatch,
How about you learn how to talk instead of using slang like: “crunk” “hood” “yo” “gat”
Being smart as I am, those dumb words make no sense.
Yes sir, I am educated. And, no, I didn’t have to marry my cousin. I also don’t live anywhere near the Bass Pro Shop, nor the Nascar track.
You’re so ignorant. You have no choice but stay ITP because you’ve probably never had the chance to get out. This blog is what you do on a daily basis at your minimum wage job. You’re probably not even at work doing this - you’re probably at your local library getting your free internet access.
And, thanks for the plug for Zaxby’s. I think the cousin and I will have that for dinner before we head down to the racetrack tonight.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
I’m with Jamie…I live (way!) OPT and love it. I work OTP too so I’m not causing traffic either. The one’s causing traffic are the idiot moms whose kids don’t ride the bus and they tote them to school in their minivans. There’s your major cause of traffic on sidestreets. That and semi-trucks that have problems remaining upright on the highway.
I grew up in the Emory area and had a Brady Bunch childhood. It was amazing. Wish I could afford to live there again but can’t. Simply put, we had to go where we could afford a house and that was a very, very long way OTP. But we love it. It’s quiet, peaceful and we have a full acre on our wooded property (I obviously don’t live in Gwinnett County). We’ve been there 12 years and love the fact that we don’t hear sirens, gunshots and screams at all hours of the night (we did when we rented in the Brookhaven area), the dog can have a huge fenced-in yard to play in and theft just isn’t a problem out there. No gangs, no thumpy stereos, no hotrodding up and down the street. I guess the fact that a cop lives four doors down has something to do with that. We love everything about living there. No drawbacks yet.
By Bob Ramsey
April 26, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this
I think it’s funny that people use a man-made feature to create such a great divide. I think it’s a classic “wanting to be important” mentality. Like people who live inside the Perimeter had anything to do with building it.
Do those snobby ITP people recognize that people who live in projects are also “ITP”? What about the county ITP people probably live in-Fulton?? Who wants to live in a county run by corrupt politicians?? It reminds me of children on the playground, and some kids chooose that a certain swingset is “cool”, and anyone playing on another one is less of a kid. Silly people. Why do some people what to think they are better than anyone else because they live inside a man-made structure they had nothing to do with? Truth is, if those kind of people left Atlanta, no one would even know or care!
By ATLNative
April 26, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this
I live OTP… but not OUTSIDE, rather ON the perimeter. Jason, #6 on the list, had it correct… Northlake/Briarlake/Embry Hills is where the ITP looks, feels, and lives like OTP. The main difference that the OTPers overlook is that the old houses ITP are better built and actually have a sense of individuality to them. What’s the point in having a “dream home” in a cookie-cutter John Weiland subdivision that won’t appreciate for 10 years?
Everyone has a different opinion and want different things, but you live OTP for things you can’t get ITP… and vice-versa. ITP - nicer house, smaller land plot. OTP - cheaper house, more land. ITP - homeless. OTP - gangs (I’ll take homeless over gangs any day). ITP - diverse schools. OTP - crowded schools.
However, unless you OTPers are investing in E85 Ethanol SUVs… I hope you’re retiring or relocating in the next 5 years, because you’re about to have one rude awakening. $3/gallon is just the beginning.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this
For those of us who’ve lived in the Atlanta area for more than 15 years, the solution is: Don’t ever move. A house in the city limits of Decatur selling for $100,000 in 1990 goes for more than 3 times that now. Add GREAT city schools, a diverse, tolerant population, many of the advantages of small-town life a la the Decatur square, plus the fact that you’re only 6.5 miles from downtown, and well, you can see why no one would want to move out now……
Except for the fact that the word is definitely out about Decatur…. “Black flight” due to high costs of living and the increased gentrification are killing the diversity. All of the 6 story condos have certainly hurt the small town feel of downtown, and have made the traffic terrible…. but all in all, ITP is definitely worth it…. if you’re already living there and not looking to move somewhere else…. we’re full up.
By Laura
April 26, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
I used to like living in Lawrenceville…that is, until everyone else thought it a good idea too. Now I have a 30 minute drive to go 8 miles to work. I have wooded lots being cleared to build yet another nail salon and dollar store. They’re building subdivisions with no trees to speak of. Then there’s the construction on 316 - maybe the end result will be good but for now it stinks.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
SLC, you can’t possibly be THAT smart if you didn’t realize that BigSquatch’s whole post was entirely a joke. As someone who actually LIVES ITP and and knows what people who talk urban really sound like, I would find it hard to believe that anybody who actually lives in da hood and carries a gat doesn’t use apostrophes to substitute for the dropped ‘g’ in an -ing verb or gerund. So while he is knowingly playing off a stereotype about ITPers, you are unknowingly perpetuating one about OTPers - one that THEY are ignorant towards poverty, racial differences, and diversity.
By Drob
April 26, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
SLC, no, you’re truly ignorant if you’re so blind that you can’t see the sarcasm dripping from BigSquatch’s post. You’re clearly hypersensitive about your boring and culture-less OTP existence.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
I live in Midtown and love it. Have I thought about living OTP? Yes, but then I realized that I didn’t want to spend my life sitting in traffic. Btw, I don’t have an 800 sq. ft. home. I have a 1200 sq. ft. home and I love it. It’s enough space for us. Do I pay high rent? Sure, but for my $1590/month I also have a 24 hr. concierge, continental breakfast seven days a week, 24 hour repair service, secured parking, a theater room with a 96” screen that I can reserve at any time, free pizza parties, free ‘meet and greet’ parties where martinis are served with a spread of food, a heated swimming pool, two pool tables, and state-of-the-art living area.
I also live within walking distance to any restaurant that I want to go to, the Fox, the Aquarium, the Botanical Gardens, etc. I park my car on Friday when I get home from work and don’t drive again until Monday morning. It also takes me seven minutes to get to work. I’m sorry, so what do you get again for your home in the burbs?
I don’t fault people for living where they want to live but I have to admit it’s usually my suburban friends who are trying to convince me that living OTP is much better than living in the city. Do we have crime? Sure, but so does anywhere you live. The same crap happens everywhere. The gangs have taken over a lot of the OTP areas and I’ll take looking at homeless people and prostitutes any day over that. I also like living in the city because people aren’t as judgmental as they seem to be OTP. Out there they all sing, “Little boxes on a hillside, little boxes made of ticky tacky, little boxes on a hillside and they all look just the same.” I don’t want to live somewhere where all of the homes are the same, where the neighbors want to be in my business, and where people aren’t willing to accept the differences in other people. You have to have some tolerance of other’s differences to live in the city and, I’m sorry to say, but there are many OTP who do not have that and do not want that. Heck, they still believe gays will go to hell and Bush rules. No thanks.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Okay, I’m going to show my ignorance here…what the heck is a “gat?” Is it a gun, like a gatling gun or something? I’m lost.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
Yes, a gat is a gun.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Wait, you mean gays DON’T go to hell, and Bush ISN’T the best president we’ve ever had? But what about the my bumpersticker that says “Marriage = [man picture]+ [woman picture]” on my huge SUV. And what about Iraq? I mean, it’s not like we could stop the genocide in Darfur and sufficiently end Africa’s starvation epidemic with the funds that we spend on half a week in Iraq….
Oh well, at least the NRA is still doing this nation some good. At least I can still carry my shotgun to protect myself from BigSquatch and his gat.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
Jennifer, do you live on a cruise ship? No wait, you have 1200sf, cruise ship cabins only have 12 square feet! Your place sounds amazing and brings up the entire point of all of this…this is why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors. We all like something different. Your style of life isn’t right for me. I like land (bigger gardens), no cars passing by my house (live on a cul de sac) and ink black darkness at night (I can see the stars). But you obviously like the fast paced life in the city. I think it’s great. We both get exactly what we want. Atlanta and it’s suburbs are very, very diverse and we can all live the lifestyle that suits us. One isn’t necessarily better than the other, just different.
By Will
April 26, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
I lived in midtown for 6 years and loved it. But it did have its down side. Drug dealers and male prostitutes were all around, the APD could not do anything about it. I just bought a 4000 sf house up in Alpharetta (John’s Creek) for less then I could have bought a 1400 sf loft or condo for. Plus I have a full acre yard. Do I miss the city yes but my wife and I were starting a family and could not afford a house in the city and did not want to deal with the crime.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
Thank you Alex!
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that OTP’ers do not pay nearly what they should for the use of our services. When you drive here to work you most likely get your gas OTP and even if you do fill up in town it’s probably not often. The tax from your lunch money is what we get from you. You do not have to pay a toll like people in NY who enter the city and, therefore, your money doesn’t really do that much for the city. All the while you have our fire department, police department, sewers, water, etc. at your disposal. Who pays for it? We do. Not you, so please don’t get too confused there. We also have to pay the millions of dollars in fines each year that are brought on by you driving your SUV’s and other large trucks into the city, which cause more pollution on top of what we would already have. Goodness forbid carpooling or taking (gasp!) MARTA. So, this summer when you are sitting on the interstates in stop and go traffic, just remember that you are the main cause of the pollution here. I wish you could take all of your emissions, trap them in your own vehicle, and dump them into your own subdivision when you get home rather than spewing them here.
By Drob
April 26, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
This shouldn’t devolve into another “bush sucks,” and then “no he doesn’t” argument. Keep focus, people.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
Fluffy, Amen.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Drob, but the whole Bush thing does seem to reign in the burbs. I didn’t want to get off-topic but it fit in with what I was saying. Now, let’s move on! :)
By Alex
April 26, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
You are absolutely right Jennifer. A lot of people complain about the condition of the city of Atlanta’s roads. Well I’m sure they would be in much better condition if the 4.5 million people who used them paid taxes for them rather than just the 700K that live in the actual city proper…. and I’m guilty of that as well, since I may live inside the perimeter, but not within the tiny city limits.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
SLC- Me make Miminum wage? Shiz, I’s doin’ this fo’ a can o’ tuna and a pack of smokes in the metal shop at the city lock-up. Those coppers busted me while ridin’ back on MARTA after stealin’ yo’ TV and all that perky Shane Co. Jewelry of yo’s. Shiz, I was even sippin’ on one yo’ juice boxes i stoles!
Ignorants? Listen to you and yo’laffy taffy! You live OTP and weren’t even smart enough to move near Bass Pro Shops! WHo crazy now!? WHO!? Dang, you were probly too buzy sippin’ on yo’ fancy white ziffandels, listin’ to Rebo Mackintyne, and gettin’romantic while scrumpin’yo brothers letterman’s jacket-
BTW, how many times a year you go to mega-church w/ a black eye?
Yeah, if you too smart to catch my flow then you an yo’ kins better be smart enough to stay away from ITP— AND ZAXBY’s! We puttin’ a MARTA stop in front all those bird-houz’s and claimin’ those ITP!!!
SLC, I gots suckah’z like you workin’ my skreet for $10. Hitz me up if you wanna work it.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
This is kind of late, but way up there Bob Ramsey said “who wants to live in a county run by corrupt politicians??” in regard to people who live in Fulton county. My response is: Who wants to live in a county with a school board who actually considers a woman advocating the removal of Harry Potter books because they spread “witchcraft” as a valid issue, worthy of extensive consideration and debate?
And I hate to sound pessimistic, but just because the scandals or wrongdowings haven’t been uncovered yet doesn’t mean that the politicians aren’t corrupt. This is, after all, 2006 (not 1692).
By UGOBOY
April 26, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Both OTP and ITP have their pluses and minuses. I live OTP and like it. One thing I really hate is when my ITP friends say “you live way out there” A 20 minute drive from downtown is not too bad! I would love to be ITP but what you get for the money just is not worth it anymore. I tell all my friends who are planning on buying houses and want to stay ITP that what you want and what you can afford are two different things. Everyone has to decide which works best for them and adapt a lifestyle to that decision. Keep in mind that all the OTPers do not work ITP so those traffic woes are not only OTP issues.
Suburbia traffic is horrible. Even on the weekends we get stuck in traffic which at times is worse than rush hour. We are in desperate need of convenient public transportation that goes all over the metro area, not just downtown. We need MARTA and trains, not buses that no one rides and takes just as long as driving. Too many strip malls and cookie cutter neighborhoods. The flip side is the space, most stores being very close including the malls, more home for your money, better schools, “safer” neighborhoods (although there is crime everywhere, it is still less per capita OTP).
Urban living has to deal with the loss of space and “extras” like the smaller lots, smaller closets, no garage, smaller rooms, higher gas prices than OTP, and everything else is more expensive as well. Your water bill, gas bill, electric bill, groceries, etc. Not to mention the problematic public school system, crime and sometimes eye sore sights before you get to the “good” neighborhood. On the flip side you get more diversity and closer proximity to more things to do.
I don’t think a zip code makes anyone snobby, that is just perception. All of metro Atlanta is beautiful and like everything in life it has good and bad no matter which you choose.
By UGOBOY
April 26, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Both OTP and ITP have their pluses and minuses. I live OTP and like it. One thing I really hate is when my ITP friends say “you live way out there” A 20 minute drive from downtown is not too bad! I would love to be ITP but what you get for the money just is not worth it anymore. I tell all my friends who are planning on buying houses and want to stay ITP that what you want and what you can afford are two different things. Everyone has to decide which works best for them and adapt a lifestyle to that decision. Keep in mind that all the OTPers do not work ITP so those traffic woes are not only OTP issues.
Suburbia traffic is horrible. Even on the weekends we get stuck in traffic which at times is worse than rush hour. We are in desperate need of convenient public transportation that goes all over the metro area, not just downtown. We need MARTA and trains, not buses that no one rides and takes just as long as driving. Too many strip malls and cookie cutter neighborhoods. The flip side is the space, most stores being very close including the malls, more home for your money, better schools, “safer” neighborhoods (although there is crime everywhere, it is still less per capita OTP).
Urban living has to deal with the loss of space and “extras” like the smaller lots, smaller closets, no garage, smaller rooms, higher gas prices than OTP, and everything else is more expensive as well. Your water bill, gas bill, electric bill, groceries, etc. Not to mention the problematic public school system, crime and sometimes eye sore sights before you get to the “good” neighborhood. On the flip side you get more diversity and closer proximity to more things to do.
I don’t think a zip code makes anyone snobby, that is just perception. All of metro Atlanta is beautiful and like everything in life it has good and bad no matter which you choose.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Alex, great point. However, if I do recall I do not believe Gwinnett or any other county for that matter is without its corrupt politicians. In Jackson County the Sheriff’s office had the regular cop cars locked up and impounded because they didn’t want them having the same color of lights as the Sheriff’s office. How petty is that crap?
If anyone believes their county isn’t corrupt in some way then they don’t get off of their couch much.
Btw, love the comment about the Harry Potter woman. What a loon! I think she, Jennifer Wilbanks (Gwinnettian), and McKinney all need to stop smoking crack.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
Seriously, if you’re going to live OTP, at LEAST make sure there’s a Bass Pro Shop nearby! I mean come on! SuperWalMart can only do so much!
BigSquatch, you don’t go to Georgia Tech or Emory, do you?
Don’t touch their mega-churches though. The hi-tech worship services with the bland, Feel-good theology is very important to the suburbs. After all, if you get right with God, He will bless you in THIS life - with large SUVs, cookie cutter houses on cul de sacs, country club memberships, and private schools that don’t have to have to deal with the plague of diversity.
By BigSqautch
April 26, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
Alex and Drob— You talkin’ crazy- like you dont know BigSquatch!?
Fluffy- My gat-a-tat-tat is headin’ for yo’ hat!
AR- As soon as I’m out, we’ll crank out a couple tight tracks, and use that scratch fo’ puttin our Bird-houz right next to Magic CITY! 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Gman
April 26, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
I grew up OTP, in Alpharetta, when Holcomb Bridge was a 2-lane road and I took Ga 400, which was 2 lanes on each side with a grassy median in the middle and ended at I-285, to high school every day off Northridge. I now live ITP and have for the last 12 years…….and I love it.
I have lived in Midtown, Va Highlands, L5P and now Inman Park and I cannot imagine moving OTP again. Yes, I live in a 2/1 that is about 800 square feet…..that has also appreciated 30k in less than 2 yrs, and borders a 5-acre park. Speaking of the size of a dwelling again, my complex was originally built in 1950, and it was built for FAMILIES OF FOUR, ‘cause folks back then didn’t see the need for massive structures to live in when something smaller would do. My point: what would I do with a two story 4/3 house in the burbs, with a 1/4 acre yard that has no trees and I have to work in it every weekend…..no thanks dude, I have other things I prefer to do with my free time than pull weeds. And what do you do with that dining room? Put a table in it and look at it? Or is there a table in there yet even……no thanks, again.
OTP is a cookie cutters paradise; all the blah strip malls, turn lanes, franchised restaurants and obnoxious traffic I find depressing, along with the thousands of subdivisions that look exactly the same, minus the newest creative name on the entry sign. But, people have different priorities; like taking a bigger place to live and then driving 30 miles each way to work….more power to you, I would literally go insane.
I have been fortunate enough to have public transportation literally at my doorstep for some time now; for the last 3 years I have been a daily MARTA rider. So what if I am the only white guy on the 34 Gresham bus to East Atlanta; nobody bothers me…..you folks that think MARTA and downtown ATL is nothing but crooks and homeless folks get over yourselves and quit being such a borderline racist, and quit jumping at your shadow as soon as you enter the perimeter, ‘cause last time I checked most of the home invasions I read about happened in Gwinnett and Cobb….no thanks, again. Keep your cookie cutter and your traffic. I will take the Braves and Falcons minutes from my door, beer sales all nite, cabbies, buses and trains at my beck and call and all the wonderful things and nightlife living in a diverse, vibrant city have to offer…….
BY the way, Zaxby’s fans, they ain’t coming inside the perimeter, Zaxby’s won’t build in a city with more than 200k people, hence the reason for staying in the Acworth’s, Marrieta’s and Snellville’s of the world…..
By Alex
April 26, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
Haha, McKinney is my representative. DECATUR WHERE IT’S GREATER!
By Highrise Condos
April 26, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
Basically, Forsyth, Gwinnett, Clayton, Henry, and Rockdale counties all need MARTA’s train service. Instead, people scream for more roads, which makes living OTP that much difficult to handle. Train service also needs to be added to the Stonecrest area with a stop on Panola. Because of these issues i envy those who can afford ITP life, 24 stories above 17th Street.
By GCmom
April 26, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
When we first moved here from Chicago 13 years ago, we could have chosen anywhere in the metro area because my husband works in mid-town. We never considered ITP, not sure why, probably because our first was on the way. We chose an OTP suburb that was south of the perimeter, had great schools and way less traffic than the northside. While waiting for our house to be built, we lived in an ITP apartment in Sandy Springs. My husband would come home white knuckled from the ride on Roswell Rd. BTW, if you have the right vehicle, you can get almost anywhere in my town without a car!! Also, Jennifer, don’t make too many generalizations about OTP…our PTO president has an “Enough is Enough, Put the Democrats back in power” bumper sticker!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
All I can tell you is I live on an acre of land 2 miles from downtown. I am surrounded by wildlife (wild turkeys, herons, etc…), old growth forests and parks. I have never ever heard a gunshot fired nor have I been a victim of crime (except for when my car got broken into during Christmas shopping at Mall of Georgia). And when I see a Bush/Cheney bumpersticker I can be assured that it is accompanied by an Gwinnett or Cobb license plate. I have been out to the burbs and it is very politicized and not in my favor. All I see is billboards advertizing stations that “liberals hate” and anti-gay, anti-liberal bumperstickers. I feel very uncomfortable and some of it feels a bit Klannish. Yes, we have ghettos in the city but you have them in the burbs, too. My husband used to work in Smyrna which is full of ‘em. And all of those thousands of apartment complexes in the burbs are becoming ghettos for immagrants and havens for gangs and crime. Face it, you have some very big city problems out there. As for beauty, sorry the burbs are not pretty. It all looks like it sprung up overnight with very little planning and no care for beautification. Cut down all the trees and make everything look alike. Congrats! All the while your citizens come intown to indulge in strip bars and porno shops and then go home and rail against Harry Potter. Hypocrites!
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
BigsassySquatch, you’re cracking me up! Keep em coming!
By Mark
April 26, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Lauren:
The political stereotyping is totally uncalled for. You are made to feel uncomfortable by views that may not be the same as yours? Conservatives are “Klannish?”
Please. That’s what is so great about this country of ours is that people are able to express differing viewpoints. People like you try to quash opposing views by demonizing your “enemy.”
Our home is in Southwest Atlanta. We prefer in-town neighborhoods. But to try to “convince” someone who lives in Cumming that our lifestyle is better is just silly. Different strokes for different folks.
On a constructive note, commuters from suburbia into the city should be charged tolls on the major arteries into and out of the city. To have those who consume a resource pay for it is the only equitable way to allocate cost.
By Don
April 26, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Jennifer hit the nail on the head. My main problem with OTP is their failure to realize how there actions affect everyone else. I live and work ITP and almost never drive on surface streets OTP. Unlike a great deal of OTP people who use many of the services of Fulton/Dekalb County but contribute only congestion and pollution as they drive into the them. This is part of the reason why ITP taxes are so much higher than OTP Taxes. A county or city payroll tax would due a great deal to help with this problem.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Alex, my condolences on McKinney being your representative. You know, I used to be with her, agreed with most of what she said, but that woman has gone off the deep end somewhere along the line. “The old gray mare she ain’t what she used to be” comes to mind. lol. I read a vent yesterday that said, “Do you know McKinney represents Atlanta?” Well, yeah, she does represent the DeKalb part of Altanta, but the person who wrote the vent probably thinks anything inside 285 is Downtown, too.
GCmom, I’m sorry, I don’t mean to generalize all suburbanites but you do have to admit the majority of the folks who live out there do not have those types of bumper stickers on their vehicles. I had my car keyed due to my Bush Lied, People Died sticker. Such is life but, again, not something I would likely have to worry about in the city.
Highrise Condos, Atlantic Station is actually pretty neat. Would I want to live there? I don’t think so. After it was built we checked into it and even though the places to live are great I have to say that I do not want to have to deal with suburban traffic at my back door, which is exactly what goes on there even though MARTA is readily available and there is FREE shuttle service.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this
Lauren - deep breaths sweety. You’ll rupture something.
Not all of us OTPers live in the horrible conditions you point out. My house looks nothing like any of the other houses in the subdivision. We have TONS of trees since we live in a county with VERY strict guidelines on building new properties. There is a one-acre minimum on all plots, a percentage of OLD growth trees must remain standing and they require a certain size (not sure what it is) of wooded area between subdivisions. We are fortunate enough to have the back of our property against one of these wooded areas. I can go in my backyard and see woods, not neighbors. Then again, I’m considered “rural” and not “suburban.” I agree that some places in Gwinnett county are awful. But that’s not the case everywhere. Besides, someone must like it, they live there.
By oldteacher
April 26, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Trains would be nice, but I live in Lawrenceville and work in the Buford area. There is not a bus stop anywhere near my home or I would ride it.
By SLC
April 26, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
Funny how something as silly as a circle can cause this many different opinions….
By Marie
April 26, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
I live in a small old house that cost as much or more than most of the huge new homes in the suburbs. I value my time more than material possessions, such as unnecessary living space. I would rather spend the three hours a day it takes most OTP people to commute to and from work with my family, even if it means that I don’t have as much “stuff.”
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
BigSqautch, you’re cracking me up! I love it!
By GCmom
April 26, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
You are right Jennifer. I didn’t dare put my M the moron sticker on. I’m looking foward to my trip to the Whole Foods in midtown tomorrow so I can read all the bumper stickers! OK, that is a black mark for OTP (at least my part)…that I have to drive 30 miles to the closest Whole Foods!
By Marie
April 26, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
I live in a small old house that cost as much or more than most of the huge new homes in the suburbs. I value my time more than material possessions, such as unnecessary living space. I would rather spend the three hours a day it takes most OTP people to commute to and from work with my family, even if it means that I don’t have as much “stuff.”
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
GCMom - don’t know exactly where you are in GC (Gwinnett County?) but they’re building a Whole Foods right across the river (Fulton, duh)on Pleasant Hill Road or whatever the name of the road becomes when you cross the hooch. I think it opens this summer. Can’t wait!!!!
By Gman
April 26, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
By the way, I ain’t liberal, I am a dyed in the wool conservative that happens to live in Inman Park…..too many times, folks are so anxious to put everyone in a little box, like “Everyone ITP is a Liberal”, or “Everyone OTP is Conservative.” Life isn’t that black and white; it has many shades of gray. Stop looking at the cover and making your mind up; open the book and read the pages once in a while…..
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
GCmom, I absolutely love that Whole Foods. Have you ever taken a trip the the DeKalb County Farmer’s Market, though? Nifty shopping there. Even though I’m not sure what some of the products they carry are..LOL It’s still a fun time. I do have to ask: Who in the world thought up the plans for that parking lot that Whole Foods is in? That’s one of the dumbest plans I’ve seen yet. If you enter to the right you are supposed to stop every two feet, which I don’t unless there is really a pedestrian crossing. And if you continue forward to the stop signs the people on your left have no idea you have a stop sign and they think you are pulling out in front of them all of the time because the visibility is poor.
Marie, I understand completely what you are saying about you value your time more than material possessions. I do not need a 4,000 sq. ft. house to feel comfortable. As a matter of fact, we just downsized from a 2,000 sq. ft. home and are now in a 1,200 sq. ft. 2bedroom 2 bath apartment. I dig it.
By Alex
April 26, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
At least we all agree on the issue with the roads. Unfortunately, there’s no way to “fix” MARTA. The biggest problem is just getting people to buy into the system. But yes, suburban commuters are a big part of why the cost of living ITP is so high.
Yes Jennifer, I agreed with McKinney 100% on paper. But it’s clear that she just can’t handle herself at all as a prominent national figure. I wish Denise Majette would come back to earth, quit running for senate, and take her HR seat back… as much as I would love to see Georgians elect a black, female, Democratic senator from the city, it ain’t gonna happen any time soon.
I would like to think that both ITPers and OTPers (those are such silly, silly acronyms) can all keep open minds. If I had been raised differently or had different experiences (not “better” or “worse” in either case, just different), I would be a conservative, too (which, by the way, is becoming a misnomer. Today, conservatism, or “neo-conservatism” isn’t really conservatism at all…. it’s moving closer and closer to libertarianism, but that’s another topic).
By Proud to be...ITP
April 26, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
Wow Jennifer, talk about being uninformed and hypocritical. You tell the OTP people to take MARTA but you don’t take it to work yourself. Also, don’t you think the office landlords pay plenty of taxes for police and fire. Most of the roads that commuters use are either federal or state highways…and air quality fines are being shared across the entire 20+ county metro region.
I’m saying this as a Midtown resident that walks to the MARTA station to get to work EVERY day. And I also appreciate the diversity down here much more than you apparently, since I won’t call someone an idiot just because they happen to vote Democrat.
By GCmom
April 26, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
Fluffy, GC=golf cart…I’m really bad at making up these names, but maybe it helps you guess my county…Fayette. We’ve begged Whole Foods, but they say we don’t have the population. Jennifer, people have been telling me about the Dekalb market. We may have to meander over there tomorrow, that is if we make it out of the Whole Foods parking lot safely!
By Syd
April 26, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Lauren,
I’ll give you that one on the High, obviosuly Roswell does not have that. I’m referring to the smaller galleries. And yes one can find great galleries, etc in all parts of town. My point was simply that the OTPers do have culture. Many of my old neighbors in Roswell grew up in or once lived in Manhatten or Chicago and are very cultured. From my perspective though, it just seems that one hears mainly from the ITPers that the OTPers are uncultured, etc. And remember, I am an ITPer living in Buckhead.
By Prootwadl
April 26, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
I live OTP (Mableton) and absolutely love it.
My wife and I are both close enough to work that we can completely avoid interstate traffic, the house we bought is 18 years old, large enough to be comfortable, and in an established and somewhat hidden subdivision with a nice yard and dense woods separating us from our neightbors to the rear, and we’re fairly close to everything we need.
Then again, we moved here from a SW suburb of Minneapolis (I grew up in Minnetonka and my wife and I moved later to Eden Prairie), so we’re used to suburban life and 5-mile commutes for various things.
I didn’t understand the appeal of living in the city when I was up there, either. :-)
The Twin Cities doesn’t have the same ITP/OTP hangups that Atlanta seems to have, though, probably because there one or two layers of suburbs inside the 494/694 perimeter. Folks there are more interested about Dinkytown or Uptown versus the burbs, or maybe Minneapolis versus St. Paul…
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Proud to be, I don’t take MARTA because it wouldn’t work with my own work schedule as it would drop me off two hours early and I don’t need or want to be at work at 6am. I do think more people would take MARTA if it were more efficient but there are people who it would benefit now who choose to not ride it. People could also ride it into town for events rather than driving and clogging up traffic.
And I never called anyone an idiot because they don’t vote Democrat.
GCmom, you will absolutely love the Farmer’s Market. It’s a really fun experience and their meats and produce are out of this world. Some of their boxed items, cereal especially, are a little expensive, though, and their milk is $4-$5/gal. But there’s pros and cons no matter where you shop. I love to go there for their meats/produce. Their meats do not have any antibiotics or hormones in them so you taste the actual, real meat taste rather than the pumped up Ahnold-type chicken.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
I never said that everyone intown is liberal or that everyone OTP is conservative but is it definitely a majority in both cases and if you think it’s not you are in denial. And yes, the extreme prevalence of rebel flags on cars and on porches of homes OTP does feel Klannish. Sorry, but it’s true.
By BP
April 26, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this
Generally, there is now a barrier to entry for living ITP - namely the cost of doing so. It’s not right, but this is where alot of the ITPers smugness come from. Human nature I suppose.
Overlooked is the fact that ITP living in Atlanta is one of the great city living experiences in the country. Housing is affordable by national standards. MARTA is reasonably useful. Any diversion you want - restaurants/sports/bars/art/etc are all close. The downtown areas are improving and are generally crime free - when is the last time a story from downtown or the old fourth ward led the news? You get alot of the benefits of living in a Washington/NYC/Boston/Chicago - to a lesser extent, but with a much lower proportionate cost.
By IntownGal
April 26, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this
Go Gman. I have lived both OTP and ITP, Woodstock, Alpharetta, Dunwoody, Downtown ATL and now VA Highland. As a yound couple, life is better for us in our very small VA Highland 2/1 within walking distance of restaurants and parks. I enjoy the vibe, diversity, venues, and events that Intown Atlanta has to offer. You can live in any suburb in the US, but can’t truly gain the understanding or experience the city without living in it. To each their own!
By Caroline
April 26, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
prootwadl- I just moved back to the Atlanta area from Burnsville, Minnesota. I agree, I don’t recall this type of arguement there. I loved Uptown and hanging around Lake Harriet in the summer, but Eden Prairie was a nice little suburb too.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Lauren - Haven’t seen one rebel flag yet where I live, thank goodness! The Klan still exists everywhere in the South. It’s an unfortunate fact of life down here and it’ll take another couple of generations to finally put out it’s last ember of existence. However, the last time they tried to have a march near Atlanta, folks came out in droves against them and they’ve been very quiet ever since. The mentality they possess is still alive and well…too bad, hating as a way of life is very, very sad. But that isn’t a perimeter issue at all. I see more rebel flags in the city than I do out where I live. It’s everywhere honey.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
I grew up in the middle of nowhere. No public transportation, no grocery store (now) because the family who owned it sold it years ago, no gas station, no movie theater, nothing. You had to drive to the next town for gas, groceries, and anything else you wanted to do or you had to go into either Bloomington or Decatur, which Decatur is so gang-infested you don’t want to bother going there. So when the opportunity came along for me to move to Atlanta I jumped at the chance.
By Prootwadl
April 26, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
Caroline - oh, you lived south of the river? I’m sorry. :-)
By Mark
April 26, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this
Lauren:
So you are saying that you did not write this?
“And when I see a Bush/Cheney bumpersticker I can be assured that it is accompanied by an Gwinnett or Cobb license plate. I have been out to the burbs and it is very politicized and not in my favor. All I see is billboards advertizing stations that “liberals hate” and anti-gay, anti-liberal bumperstickers. I feel very uncomfortable and some of it feels a bit Klannish.”
Whoops.
Demographics dictate that of COURSE there will be areas that are predominantly liberal, many of these areas are inside the city. Of course there will be areas that are predominantly conservative, and these areas are generally more suburban to rural.
My point is SO WHAT? If you are really THAT uncomfortable by being around people who may hold different political views than you, then may I suggest a one-way ticket to a one-party totalitarian state.
By OTP
April 26, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this
What a ridiculous issue. I’ve lived in Atlanta all of my life both ITP and OTP and both PRE ITP/OTP and POST ITP/OTP. What, do the ITP bigots want, everyone in the metro area to move inside the perimeter or just disappear altogether so they can have their island? The local dialing area reaches all the way into Alabama, THAT’S how large the real “Atlanta” is. It consists of everyone living in places such as Rome, Macon, Dalton as well as Virginia Highland, East Point or the most recent “pariah”, Sandy Springs. Get a life, people.
By ITP 4 LIFE
April 26, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
Trying to ban Harry Potter books is enough for me to stay ITP.
By Syd
April 26, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Many people have mentioned how their home values ITP appreciate and make referance to the OTP houses don’t. I bought a rental house in OTP 10 years ago and have realized a steady $12,000 a year increase. Many houses OTP will see more than that. And obviously many houses ITP have seen much more than that. But what is funny is how they say, “I bought my house for $400,000 6 months ago and it just appraised for $460,000. It gone up $60,000 in 6 months.” Boy, are they in for a reality check. What it will sell for and what it will and what it appraises for are two seperate things. Back in 2000 I was eyeing a house in Loring Heights when it sold for around $350,000. I saw that same house sell for $320,000 last year. Hmmmm. Looks like a $30,000 hit to me. I bought a small 2 bedroom condo two years ago in Buckhead for $115,000 as a rental property. The guy I bought it for bought in in 2001 for $142,000. My point is the ‘burbs are usually very safe and steady with appreciation. ITP sees some great spikes, but with that are some bad years. Very few people make a ton of money unless they are holding for 10 plus years. Under that, much more risk ITP.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Fluffy, I don’t know where you are looking but everytime I go outside the Perimeter I see lots of rebel flags. If I see them intown they are always on the car of an interloper from the burbs. How can I tell? License plate, of course. I know hatred is everywhere but in many parts of the burbs people feel their opinions of hate are popular enough to parade them out in the open, which says a lot about that environment. My husband works in the very northern suburbs and he is regularly bombarded at work with rhetoric about gays going to hell and people asking him how he could stand to live intown around so many gays (they do not use the nice word “gays” either). When he told one co-worker that he did not have problem with gay people she told him he was going to hell right along with them. We have lived intown for 20 years and have never once heard that kind of talk.
By Caroline
April 26, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
prootwadl-why do you think I moved? :0)
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
SLC-gurl,
It ain’t th’ circle that causes the ‘pinions, it be the foolz who come tryin’ to push-all-up musky on BigSquatch, sayin’ you street, you hard, you part o’ the ATL (BigSquatch’s ATL) when you ain’t even city- you COUNTY! freaky county
Besides lootin’and a wilding or two, BigSquatch and the ITP crew ain’t comin’ to yo’ hood, yo chillin’s karate or kung fool lessons, yo’ PF Changz, an tellin’ you we OTP! We relevant! We hard— Shiz we got sumpin’ called self-respect’, ITP don’t give shiz about OTP ‘cept when y’all complain’that we don’t think yo’ down w/ ATL. (You like our own little Canada)
But when take yo’ superburban or microvan across the circle you Enter the Wu TANG!— and folk like you scared, but you like it. You think BigSquatch ‘round every corner, throwin dice in every alley,takin’ yo’ ticket at the fish-tank, thinkin’ they want everything you got. Y’know what I wantz “I want da gold!” (Mobile, AL leprechaun-style for those in the know!)
We don’t push up on yo’ country-whack shiz tellin’ you how to roll- You peeps all lost the war of ATL, done retreated to freaky-deaky’s-ville now you mad that we poppin’ bottles up in this joint!
By Mark
April 26, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
Uh, Lauren, time for a reality check.
Bigotry has nothing to do with which side of 285 one happens to live on.
By Susie
April 26, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Dudes like ol’ BigSquatch are exactly why my husband and I live 50 miles OTP and love it. Stop by our place, BigScratch. We’ll introduce you to OUR gat: aka Sig Hauer. Our two German Shepherds would like to meet ya, too. Maybe then you’ll consider an attitude adjustment, country-style!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this
$12,000 a year appreciation is very good. However, it cannot beat our $85,000 a year appreciation. I agree what a house lists for and what it sells for is often different. My friend a few streets over recently sold her house for $40,000 more than she was asking for it. The condo market is weird and has been for years in Atlanta. Many folks are not likely to buy a condo when they can have a house for pretty much the same price so comparing the condo market to the single family home market is really apples and oranges. Condos are a safe bet in a city like New York where land is so scarce but in Atlanta we have plenty of it so the condo market is very iffy.
By Cornelia
April 26, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this
Who wants to live ITP where there is witch craft, sodomites, transvestites, deviant lifestyles, drugs, gangs, and dependency on the government ? I’m tolerant, but not for degeneracy.
By Mark
April 26, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this
Susie: The difference between BigSquatch’s posts and your post is that BigSquatch’s are funny.
Lighten up.
By Lauran
April 26, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
Uh, Mark. I disagree. I know it is everywhere but is much more prevelant OTP than ITP.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
Cornelia, you are a loon! Stay as far away from ITP as you can. Witchcraft? Witchcraft? What are you talking about? As far as sodomy, drugs, gangs and trannies are concerned, honey they are everywhere. EVERYWHERE!!!
By Mark
April 26, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
It says much about the character of your husband that he would tolerate that type of behavior from his coworkers.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
Psst, Susie, maybe you haven’t caught on, but Squatch is really getting your goat with his sarcasm, isn’t he. Funny stuff, Squatch. Keep it comin!
By Blackberry
April 26, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
It is so easy to get people worked up on these AJC blogs! People buy right into the sarcasm/trolling/flame wars.
Take a step back and realize where you are -the electronic version of one of the countries worst major metropolitan newspapers. If the people on these “blogs” are any indication of the typical readership of the AJC, I guess the editors don’t have much to worry about though.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Wow, Cornelia. Everything you just described happens in the suburbs, too. Where are you going to move now?
By Juanella
April 26, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Blackberry,
If it wasn’t online, I suspect nobody would read the AJC. It’s certainly not worth paying for. I did a survey of my co-workers & neighbors, and not a one subscibes to it. These are educated, mostly upper middle class types I’m referring to. Most expressed a desire for a better local news alternative. Too bad we are a one newspaper town.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
I cast a spell on Conelia! Casting spells is something us ITP people are apparently good at.
By pushing40
April 26, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Jennifer, I’ve got nearly 2000 square feet on a half-acre WITH TREES and my monthly payment is just over $650. Unless you’re getting over $900 a month in free coffee, donuts, pizza and video room reservations, you aren’t getting your money’s worth.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Sukie done proved it all again!
Sukie, Put down yo’ little debbie snacks and switch to moonpies (they less fat, and you’ll finally be able to git back on your silly-lil-ATV)Mang, if you 50 miles out, you are OTP’s OTP, even SLC would think you silly— Sheez,how you even readin’ AJC on the internets? Fine Girlz like you should be hunt’n squirrelz, werkin’ yer methlab, going to swimmin’ holes and lightin’ off firecrackers!
Jus’ like a bumpkin’ to threaten BigSquatch with sickin’ the pooches on him!
By TheRoss
April 26, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Like others have said, I can’t afford a house ITP. I wanted one, but Snellville was as close as I could get.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
Pushing40, it’s all good. I just moved out of a 2,000 sq. ft. home in Midtown that had trees galore in the back yard, but trees cause much of our pollution, too, so I’m not heartbroken that there are few trees where I live now. And, yes, the amenities I get are well worth what I pay each month; especially considering I can go and do whatever I want and it’s within walking distance. If I can’t walk I can get a cab for $5.
By Janice
April 26, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
I live in Water’s Edge in DeKalb County and enjoy my rural/suburban lifestyle. The decision to commute to Buckhead to work is one that I’ve accepted with all its pros and cons. It’s all about choices we make according to our individual needs. Whether you live OTP or ITP no one needs to criticize another for their choices.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Jennifer! Please tell me someone’s using your name. “Trees cause much of our pollution?” Huh?
By TBone
April 26, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
I see a lot of postings basicly saying the same thing. Big City address, Small Town Mind. Whether you are ITP/OTP you all are still in the ATL no matter what your mailing address says. The city is basicly 50 miles across and full of diverse things to enjoy and for those of your who never venture more than a mile or two from you house, you don’t realize what you are missing.
By Cornelia
April 26, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
Years ago I took my children to Piedmont Park for a children’s event. Little did I know there was a marijuana festival occurring the same day. Getting lost in the traffic going home, I asked a woman for directions. It was a man dressed in woman’s clothing.
I’ll happily stay OTP and leave Sodom and Gomorrah to the hip, tolerant liberals ITP.
By Susie
April 26, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Hey, BigSquatch, how did you know I do most of those things? I DO eat Moonpies so I can still fit (very nicely: 5’10 @ 140 lbs) on my Harley, I do go swimming in our pond out back, We shoot off fireworks at all our parties, our dogs are so totally out of control and bloodthirsty they attack EVERYTHING that moves with no commands, the only thing I don’t do is play with Meth. I’m hyper enough, thank you. Yes, I’m a country bumpkin and love it.
By Hernandos
April 26, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
TBone that extra 40 miles or so that you are lumping into the ATL is known by most Atlantan’s simply as Georgia.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Cornelia you crack me up almost as much as BigSquash! A pot fest in Piedmont Park? NOOOOO! Baby, there’s one there every day! Sodom and Gomorrah? Atlanta? Where do you live OTP? Let’s see out here (OTP) we’ve got pedophiles galore, priest rapists, gang wars, dad getting off on porn after Jenny and Johnny have gone to bed, fetish parties, meth labs out the ying-yang, and lots of other things FAR worse than that. In the ‘burbs there are (evidently) Klansfolk, witches, satan worshippers, and even Jewish people (gasp!). Living OTP doesn’t keep you from being subjected to these people, they’re everywhere. Lighten up and love your neighbor!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Mark, you are in no position to judge my husband’s character. I find it interesting that your strong reaction to my story was to say something against my husband rather than against the bigots he is around in his workplace. As for his character, you can hardly judge that from a one paragraph story. He is a very honorable man, but he works in a school which is a very political environment. One of the people who says these things is one of the department heads in the school. My husband needs his job and if you butt heads with administration you can find yourself out of a contract for no given reason in this right to work state. He does speak his mind and does tell defend his beliefs and tell those who say hateful things that he thinks they are wrong, but beyond that he cannot do anything. I guess he could leave his job but he does not have that luxury at this point. You are a very low man for questioning his character under such circumstances and I don’t think that says much for your character.
By Randy
April 26, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Fluffy,
You must be new to the ATL. There used to be numerous pot festivals at Piedmont Park in the 80s and early 90s. I know. I was there with the fornicators and sodomites. One year the Black Crowes had a free concert @ the pot festival, and over 100,000 people showed up.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Oh Yeah! Right on, Cornelia! I can’t get enough pot or men dressed in ladies clothes. Sign me up for more of that. If it keeps you away then how can I argue.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
Mark, I am very uncomfortable with right wing conservatives only because they are so vocal about their views and so oppressive of those who disagree with them. They are the one’s who want a one-way, one-view permitted state. Not me. I know everyone has different view points but I am not trying to deny civil rights to people who live lives I disagree with. No, only the right wing Republicans are doing that, so stop lecturing me about tolerance. Your party has no idea what tolerance is.
By Decaturparent
April 26, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Frankly, I have done both, and I prefer intown, at least where I live. We live intown, but in Decatur… so we feel a bit seperate from the bigness of Atlanta. We’ve also got fab(very small) schools and there’s always something fun going on. I feel that we have all the family friendliness without having to give up an urban, artsy feel.
Yep, we could use a few more square feet (I start to drool when I see a house with a large basement), but I wouldn’t trade it for a minute. Then again, I have friends (very sane, smart friends) who live OTP that think I am nuts to live here and they wouldn’t trade their situation for the world either. I really don’t think one is better or worse than the other - it’s just a matter of personal taste.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Sukiez, the first prob’w/ kracker barrell eatin’ folk is that when they say 5’10— it 5’10 sideways. Girrl,You never have to go hungry, cuz when you done jump in yo pond all the catfish fall out.
The 2nd prob, is when you reply, city-folk don’t get where you goin’ w/it….
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Uh, Fluffy, I was the one who said trees cause some pollution. Pollen-Pollution, same root word. Look at the green stuff on your car and floating in the air. That is part of our pollution, which is pollen.
Yes, Cornelia, they used to have the Marijuana March, which was to promote the legalization of medicinal marijuana but, sadly, most of the people who showed up just wanted to smoke and weren’t interested in speaking the truth about it. They just used it as an excuse to show their arse in public. Too bad. The good thing is it does still take place in cities across the US and Europe.
Was the man dressed in women’s clothing able to direct you towards home or did you zoom off because you were afraid of him.
Btw, I’m not a liberal, but I do find it amusing you think I am because I live in town.
By W
April 26, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Jennifer,
I also have a pool table, a theater with a 110” screen that doesn’t need to be reserved, a 3-car garage in a 5000 sq custom home OTP.
If you like living in the city, great for you. I like not paying over $1MM for everything that I have OTP.
Yes, I have to drive downtown to work, but on my motorcycle, I can use the HOV lane and I’m cool with that.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Holy crap. When I left home this morning I saw a very tall guy dressed like a woman. Do I care? Not really. And it’s people like Baton Bob who keep the Midtown people in good spirits by sharing the gift of laughter :)
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Randy - sarcasm just doesn’t translate well on blogs, huh? (I was being sarcastic in my rant to Corny). I’m a native Atlantan, born right over there in lil ole Piedmont Hospital. How many here can say THAT?!?! And Darlin’, I was right there with you at the festivals. I was there when the Crowes did their concert! In fact, I was backstage working the show as I was an employee of the host (name withheld for obvious reasons!). One of my best friends was there too and his mug just happened to get on the cover of High Times…yikes! I’ve seen all kinds of Atlanta happenings and absolutely LOVE living in Georgia. Not growing up a redneck and uneducated was thanks to a pair of very diligent parents. I get a kick out of the yankees that come down here and slam everything we do. Oddly enough, I married one. He still rants on the South but I think it’s funny now. If being down here with me is so bad, why is he still here? He loves it, that’s why. Where else can you see a gay pride parade flanked by kkk and harley gangs? And don’t EVEN get me started on the camoflauge set!!!
The South…we ain’t purty but we’re colorful!
By Jill
April 26, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
I’m ON the perimeter as well, on the Fulton/Dekalb Sandy Springs/Dunwoody border. I love it. It’s almost like a mix of ITP and OTP. I can walk to Publix, Eckerd, and some places to eat. Suburbs like Roswell, Marietta, and Alpharetta aren’t too far from me. I work in downtown Atlanta, and I live close enough where I can walk to a MARTA station or just drive the 13 miles. Right now I’m in a condo, but eventually I’ll want a house if I ever get married and settle down. If I had my way, I’d move to the Emory area so I could stay on or near the perimeter so I could be close to everything and still have a back yard.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Well, W, I guess I don’t require as much living space as you do :)
By Ozzie
April 26, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Lauren,
You “tolerant” liberals are the first ones that want to limit and silence freedom of speech. When a conservative expresses an viewpoint or opinion they are inevitably shouted down by the opposition. Your leftwing politicians are trying to get Rush Limbaugh & Sean Hannity off the radio, because the ratings for Public Radio and Air America SUCK. You bedwetters despise FOX but yet your side gets to run amuck and slant the news on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC & MSNBC all you want. Give me a break!
By Jo
April 26, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Jennifer & Lauren, you RULE!! My husband & I have always lived ITP & love it. I do work in the burbs & in their own way, they have their good points but I wouldn’t want to live there. Mostly the burbs are full of (UGH) breeders w/cookie-cutter, sports-worshipping, conformist mentalities. (“Injun food? What all is THAT? Golly gosh gee, give me meat & three any day!”) No thanks! I’m neither lib or conservative, BTW. I judge each individual issue on its own merit. See, one thing I DON’T like about ITP is the so-called “diversity”. Such as having to deal with the BigSquatches, you can’t even understand a word they say. Ebonics is NOT a language! Cornelia, dear, I hope you don’t injure your hand thumping that Bible! Oh yes, I love the Dekalb Farmers Market (ever eat in their cafeteria? Yum!) but yes, the parking lot needs some tweaking
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Jennifer - unwad the panties honey. I didn’t realize you were referring to pollen, which really isn’t pollution per se. If there wasn’t pollen, we wouldn’t get more trees. And those big tall things with leafy puffs at the top are what keeps pollution (cars, factories, etc) lower. Sheesh!
By Susie & Jennifer are dumb
April 26, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
I started laughing at how Susie played right into BigSquatch’s hand but then I started choking on all of the pollution caused by the trees.
Maybe Jennifer doesn’t ride MARTA because the schedule is confusing?
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Ozzie, slant the news? Are you kidding me? And CNN has never been as right leaning as it is now. They had to dumb down their programs and get more fluff in order to keep up with Fox News. More Halloway stories and what sex Tom Cruise’s child is sells.
I don’t think Rush or Sean Hannity should be taken off the air, even though much of what they spew are lies. And please don’t be too confused because I do not agree with a lot of the left wing, either.
By prado
April 26, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
Susie, you’re an idiot. Learn to recognize sarcasm when you see it. I guess if you weren’t so isolated in your OTP compound, you’d be able to.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
Hey, Fluff, I didn’t answer you with sarcasm. I was just answering your question. No need to get so defensive.
But you are wrong in one aspect. Not all trees reduce pollution; although, there are those that do.
By Ozzie
April 26, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
Jennifer,
As much as you try to hide from the fact, you are a L-I-B-E-R-A-L !!!
Everything you’ve spouted is from the liberal angle.
Its okay to be liberal.
By Swangirl
April 26, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Add me to the area where Jason and ATLNative live (embry hills/tuckerish). We just moved here and are in love. We get to live on the ITP/OTP fence and enjoy both worlds.
My wish is that people would not condemn people for living in either zone. Both have a great deal to offer. Don’t look down on someone because of where they choose to live. They have their reasons.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Ozzie, you are a clueless loudmouth. Liberals are not trying to get Rush and Sean Hannity off the air. CNN is decidedly right wing these days and we have absolutely no news station on TV that claims to promote only the liberal viewpoint. Only the right would be so brazen and bigoted. The right wing controls the radio airwaves and still they whine like babies about not being able to get their voices heard. What a laugh! You loudmouths are everywhere on the radio and on TV, there is no escaping you or shutting you up so I have no idea what you are complaining about. You are a big overgrown whining baby. Go have your mommy powder your bottom!
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Hey Jennifer, I answered you with sarcasm because I deemed it necessary. Just as I will again. Did you take ANY science classes in school? Were you there the day they explained photosynthesis and the fact that plantlife takes in carbon-dioxide and emits breathable oxygen? Why do you think folks are trying to get the govt to stop developers from erasing our greenspace? Why do you think our pollution counts are going up? Because we’re cutting down trees (and making too many cars and stuff, but that’s a different blog). ALL plantlife helps eradicate the pollution we make, and that we don’t make (i.e. cow belches and swamp gasses). And you call yourself a liberal.
By Jennifer
April 26, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
Ok, guys. I’m off of work for the day in ten so it’s time to get ready to head home. Thanks for the conversation. Have a good one! :)
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
Republicans have been controlling everything for about 6 years now and the whole country is going to hell in a handbag. Our reputation around the world is mud. Bush’s approval rating is at 30% and falling by the week. Washington is full of corruption, scandals and indictments, most all on the Republican side. In recent polls most Americans support a shift to Democratic leadership. All of this may explain why poeple like Ozzie are so darn upset. They know that their party, at least on the national level, is about to be FIRED!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
By Hernandos
April 26, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Get back on track fanatics- This is about OTP / ITP. Fight about Lib vs. Conservative on another blog.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
NOOOOOO! Don’t go Jennifer. I want to be sarcastic some more! Dang it.
I think the whole OTP vs. ITP debate is silly anyway. Who cares really? We all live where we want and if not, we’re working to move. This argument has been around since the perimeter was built. It’s nothing new. I was born and raised ITP and could only afford to buy a house OPT. Been very happy both ways.
By delois
April 26, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
ITP or OTP - I don’t care. As soon as our son graduates from college in two years, we will all be OOG - OUTSIDE OF GEORGIA! We’ve lived ITP and OTP and are sick of both.
By Sammy
April 26, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
Whatta ya wanna bet that Cornelia’s husband is a potsmoking, cornholing tranny?
By Sammy
April 26, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Whatta ya wanna bet that Cornelia’s husband is a potsmoking, cornholing tranny?
By Sammy
April 26, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
Whatta ya wanna bet that Cornelia’s husband is a potsmoking, cornholing tranny?
By Right as Rain
April 26, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
I’m sitting here reading all this “stuff” and have come to realize the conservative Republicans scare the heck out of all you ITP whiney-babies. Ozzie hit the nail on the head. Bush would get my vote again and I’m pulling for a Republican stronghold once again in Georgia politics. Boortz, Hannity, and Limbaugh have my rapt attention. I don’t eat Tofu, sprouts, or drink “bottled” water. I avoid gays, health food stores, Birkenstock shoe stores, and tie-dye clothiers. All us Republicans will be going to Heaven because we live clean, righteous lives. We believe in God and have no place in our neighborhoods for Allah-lovers or Cucaracha-dancers. We shop at Wal-Mart and eat at Kentucky Fried Chicken. Eventually we will rule ALL America, even ITP, so you all need to get with the correct program and save your souls.
By Ozzie
April 26, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Lauren,
Don’t count your chickens yet! November is a long way.
CNN has had to tilt to the middle because of its drastic slippage in the ratings. It’s because its chief competition, FOX, is kicking their a*. I know. I’m in the industry and work for an Atlanta news affiliate.
As for the Republicans, Bush is cleaning up the mess (ie doing nothing in Middle East)inherited from the Clinton administration. If you are whining about gas prices (why worry if you live ITP?), this country has not built one new refinery in 30 years. The world consumption today is a bit higher than it was 30 years ago, especially with China and India entering the industrial age. Contrary to liberal myth, Bush does not have a button on his desk that makes gas prices go up and down.
Act like you have an active brain cell!
By Sammy
April 26, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Right as Rain, that was hilarious!! Tell another one!!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
Funny, Ozzie but I never brought up gas prices. I guess that is the only argument you have. Ah yes, the current admisitration is blameless, it’s all Clinton’s fault. We’ve heard that song and dance and no one is buying it except the die-hard right. Well wake up, this administration has been in power for SIX YEARS and they are to blame for all of it and voters will hold them accoutable. The old “blame the last president” doesn’t work. No one is falling for it. November is not that long away, your days are numbered. I am laughing at you. You are pathetic!
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Well Jacqueline, I think you’ve lost control of this blog. As usual it has turned into a democrat vs. republican issue. Where’s all the black vs. white stuff? It’s impossible to stay on topic in ANY blog because us humans like to be distracted and it’s easily done. On to bigger and better blogs. Peace, out.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
The decision to manipulate intelligence and rush to war in Iraq is being called the WORST strategical blunder in presidential history. Historians are telling us that Bush will go down as THE WORST president in history. Still there are morons out there who say “give me more.” You are the one’s who don’t have a brain cell amongst you. Get ready to see these corrupt liars drummed out of office. And don’t think they don’t know it, that’s why they are so darned angry. They know that had total control for 6 years and all they could do was muck it up. They know the only people who still like this president are the one’s who would like him no matter what. The rest of us who look at deeds and history with a fair view have judged him and deemed him terrible and a total failure. YOU ELECTED AN INEPT MORON!! WAY TO GO!!!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
Ozzie, shouldn’t you be listening to the radio now? I believe you oxycontin-crazed leader is speaking.
By Syd
April 26, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
You know what would be funny? All the OTP people stop driving into the city and spending money. You know what would happen? ATL would be bankrupt in a second. Your real estate and sales taxes would sky rocket, your home values would plummet because not one would be able to afford your taxes. You’d be begging the OTPers to come to the city. So, please stop being so critical of those that live OTP. Peace my friends.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Syd, you are not very smart. Real estate taxes are based on home values. So, if our real estate values would plummet how would our real estate taxes skyrocket? Did you fail third grade math?
By Sammy
April 26, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
JESUS WAS A LIBERAL!!!
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Since when did concrete become so great. Whether your living in Atlanta or Gwinnett, everything is the same. A lot traffic and a lot of concrete. Both sound pretty bad to me. The only thing keeping people ITP or OTP, is $$$$. Everyone get over yourselves. If you have a problem with people commuting from OTP to ITP, go complain to the ITP corporations who are hiring people living OTP. They are capable of reading the address on the resume. Tell them to do the responsible thing for the environment. Most people are just trying to make a living. Georgia sucks b/c the people. Bunch of premadonnas throughout the entire state.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Righ as Rain, you represent everything that the rest of the country hates about Republicans. A bunch of self-righteous bigots who think they are the only ones who love the lord and deserve heaven. I think they should put a bullhorn to your mouth and designate you their spokesperson. If so the Democrates are sure to take 70% of the vote in November. Keep talking and keep identifying yourself as a Republican. It only helps the opposition.
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
And all the chatter about telling people where they should live or complaining about OTP people not paying taxes etc. for ITP services, I have something for you.
If you were not born in Georgia, whether Atlanta or Gwinnett, leave! This will fix the traffic problem!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
Rich, I was born in Georgia and that is one of the most ridiculous statements ever. Now it’s a club and you are ordering non-members to leave? Sounds like Sonny Perdue.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
I was born in GA but my husband was born New Jersey. Does he get citizenship by marriage or do I have to divorce him and send him back north to solve the traffic problem? Idiot!
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Lauren, Syd, Sammy-
Shut the f’ up. Fo’ Real! BigSquatch bring the f’n heat YO!
Y’all just bring the old-lady-axe bullshiz. Bok bok bok bok bok- Y’all Chicken-head style? Stop listin’ to yo’ crack a* righty-lefty radio /tv shizz, and turn up yo’ ATL BEATZ! Shizz you in the new Motown ladies, w/slow jamz, grinders, bounce tracks… Dang y’all quit y’garblin’ and start y’rump shakin.
You wanna war, settle that shiz on the dance flo!
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Democrat and Republican sounds like a club to me too! I did not order anything, but I do have a simple solution to the people who complain about where the live……….MOVE!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
Rich, I am sure you say “America, love it or leave it” Well the right to complain and the right to want things to change is a good thing.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
What is BigSquatch? Is that ghetto speak for a bad yeast infection?
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Just send your husband back to New Jersey. I do not care what else you do.
And by the way, if you were referring to the “illegal” immigrant subject, this is a national subject. Get it……..U.S. Citizenship??
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
Lauren,
Is that right to an opinion or a right to complain only when you do it or when it fits into your life?
By Right as Rain
April 26, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
Sammy, I’d love to keep entertaining you but I need to go vote somewhere.
By Syd
April 26, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
Lauren,
Yes you are right they are based on value. I will spell it out a little further for you. Initially our taxes will increase to support the lost tax revenue. As will the sales tax. The cost of services will drop some but not enough to significantly off-set anything. Once people realize how expensive it is to live in ATL, the demand for housing will drop, thus lowering home values. Remember supply and demand? Then, lets not forget all the small business that will go out of business becuase all the OTPers are not there to eat lunch, buy gas, see a movie, i.e. spend money. Remember, the population of metro ATL is roughly $4MM and the city of ATL is roughly $.7MM (MM is million in case you didn’t make it past 3rd grade). So, don’t think everyone walking around you is from ITP. All this would snowball and create financial distress for the city. The city is supported by all of metro ATL. And do not forget N. Fulton. Roswell and Alpharetta pour a ton of money in Fulton county, most of actually. And the city of ATL sucks of the nipple of Fulton county which is primarily supported by N Fulton.
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
Rich, when you have a more non-idiotic suggestion than me divorcing my husband and sending him back to NJ to help alleviate the traffic problem then let me know.
Syd, I don’t know what to say to you. You are lost. What you are talking about is beyond fantasy. It is so never going to happen that I am shocked that you have wasted your time theorizing about it. We might as well talk about moving to Middle Earth and living amongst the hobbits because it is just about as realistic as your scenario. It’s more like the subarbs suck at Atlanta’s teat. We, Atlanta, that is, justify your (the suburbs) very existance. You leave us?!? You would have to find another big city to leach off. Now go back to fairyland.
By Rich
April 26, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Non-idiotic suggestion:
You and your husband move to New Jersey!
By Jim
April 26, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
Jesus was a liberal?
I seriously doubt he would be advocating abortion, gay rights and leeching off the government, the holy trilogy of the Democratic Party.
Nor am I saying he would be a Republican, either. Instead of protesting taxation, he’d say “Render unto Caeser what is Caesar’s.”
His kingdom is definitely not of this world.
By Fluffy
April 26, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
I’m back! BigSmack is back and so am I!! Whazzup big? (How’s that for a middle-aged white chick?) Lauren, you need to shut it now! You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and you sound like a fool. I guess we should just give OTP or ITP over to anyone who wants it and go lie down peacefully as they trample on us. Right? You keep screaming about politics on a residency blog. Go spout elsewhere if you can’t stay on topic.
Now, me and BigShad are going to rap. Ready?
By Davy
April 26, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
This ITP and OTP is easy to explain, for I’ve lived both. I lived for years in the Lennox Park area and loved it. BUT, once children came on board, I was outta there. ITP, you are making the decision to go private school. Don’t give me this Sarah Smith is great (which still somewhat is), or Decatur, Lakeside, Druid Hills are great(not anymore)..the quality public schools ITP are almost “gone with the wind”.Maybe the diversity is ALL you want…I wanted more. The issue I had with private schools wasn’t the tution, but lack of community. My neighbors kids all went to different private schools, so no one could really share what was going on in “their” school, it just didn’t have the community feel…Thus I moved OTP…Similar to ITP public schools, the quality OTP public schools are few and far between, so you gotta do your homework…I did mine..Kids go to Brookwood HS in Gwinnett Co. This school has the highest SAT scores in the state, multiple programs in the arts/music/drama…incredible sports programs..and unbelivable high school experience for our kids. Quiet frankly, most ITP folks living in condos are childless, and will probably remain so…That’s ok, if you like that…I’ll take seeing my son in a high school musical or my daughter playing soccer ANY DAY over a nice resturant!!!! Soon they’ll be off the college, and I’ll return to the city, it will still be there. but you ITP that never ventured out, will never even know what you missed….Till then, Go Broncos
By Chandra
April 26, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Jackie, Just another suburbanite who has come to terms with living an hours drive from the downtown Ad agency I work for. My co-workers love living in-town but daily complaints about over-night gun shots and drug trafficking in their high rise condos keep me happily driving in and out of “reality”. No complaints here. To each his own.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
L-girl, Ghetto-speak fo’ a yeasty? That all you can spit at ol’ BigSquatch? Well hoity-doity-lu. You really done gots me good! Biscuits!
Ain’t folk like you fo’ helpin people like ol’ BigSquatch? Why you gettin’ “ghetto-speak” derogatory, racist, and shiz like that on me? I just wanted you and the folk’s you battlin’ to bring the talk back to ITP OTP, or shut the f’up. I get mo’ sense from spinach!
By Lauren
April 26, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Rich, I’d like to tell you where to go, but I am sure you can guess. As for New Jersey, it’s just one big suburb of NYC, where we do own a second home and go to often. We will visit there soon and think of you fondly. We are free as Americans to live wherever we like. At least for now…Republicans are eroding our freedoms everyday.
Jim- Democrats are not “pro-abortion” we are pro-choice. There is a difference. We believe in leaving medical decisions up to the individual and her doctor. We as Democrats want abortion to be rare but legal. If you disagree, fine, but most of the country is pro-choice, not just Dems. Jesus never said one single thing against homosexuals. I dare you to find it in the Bible. It is not there. I am confused by your leaching off the government statement because in the very next statement you support taxes. We don’t believe in leaching off the gov’t. That’s just an incorrect oversimplification by the ignorant opposition.
By BigSquatch
April 26, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Fluff- What up G?!
By shari
April 27, 2006 07:35 AM | Link to this
I left OTP for the other side of the mountains. Less traffic and noise - the only issues out here is the road kill and the bicyclists and motorcyclers on the roads on the weekend (keep on coming). there is never a smog warning. for me i’ll stay here - you can have all that activities and events - i’ll hike the mountains
By muffin
April 27, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this
Like a few others on here, we recently moved to the Northcrest/Embry Hills area. We’re almost on top of 285, 85 and have all the benefits of intown and suburban living. Houses are still going in our Northcrest neighborhood in the low 200’s, all with almost 1/2 an acre and at least 2000+ sq ft. i have a 20 minute commute to midtown via 85 on a normal traffic day. You can’t beat this area for price and location. I guess we’re considered OTP, but I like the aforementioned variation on that, On the Perimeter, because it’s true!
By Alex
April 27, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this
You’re right Jim, Jesus certainly wasn’t a republican, either. I am pretty sure he’d be appalled by neo-conservatism and the religious right. With overarching themes of tolerance, acceptance, and love for the poor (“it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”), I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be a fan of pre-emptive wars against peoples of different relgions (How quick would we be to attack Iraq if they 1. were a christian nation. or 2. didn’t have a hold on the world’s oil suppply) or tax cuts benefitting the rich. He probably wouldn’t like the persecution and denial of rights to homosexuals either. As far as abortion, well it really boils down to whether or not you believe life starts at conception…. I’m not going there. Religious fundamentalism is almost always a dangerous, divisive (and often times beligerent) thing, because it usually rests on the idea that one God/religion is supererior among all others. In such a diverse world, this usually leads to extreme conflict. Christian fundamentalism is no better than Islamic fundamentalism (ie. Taliban, Al Qaeda). You can quote me on that all you want in subsequent posts, and use those words against me any way you please. The differences in the two groups’ actions lies in the fact that Islamic fundamentalists live in developed and undeveloped countries in the middle east, and Christian fundamentalists live in the highly developed, highly powerful USA or countries like that.
And I’m pretty sure Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Brahma, Vishnu and Shieva, the Buddha, and Confucius, etc. would all live ITP…. Just kidding. For the “sarcasm impaired” on this blog.
By Alex
April 27, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this
sorry, in my last post I wrote “Islamic fundamentalists live in undeveloped or developed countries” when I meant to write that “Islamic fundamentalists live in developed or developing countries”
By Alex
April 27, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this
It’s too early in the morning “UNDEVELOPED AND DEVELOPING” what I meant. You get the idea. I guess all of these mistakes are really killing my credibility/argument/rant that had no bearing on the topic whatsoever anyway.
By Mark
April 27, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
Alex:
Some posters on here could learn a thing or three from you. I could not disagree more with your opinion, but it is not unnoticed that you were able to express it without resorting to childish name-calling. Thanks.
Lauren:
Are you paying attention? I see that once again you are unable to articulate an opinion without calling someone “ignorant,” telling them where “they can go,” accusing them of “failing third grade math” or “not being very smart.”
By Sweetie
April 27, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this
I agree; the AJC does a great job of dividing the masses. They’d better be thankful they have an online edition. BTW, ITP rules!! Too bad its so freakin’ expensive….My taxes have gone through the roof in the last 3 years. But I love it and I’ll never leave. Ever wonder why people from OTP always try to claim they’re from the “A” when they’re in another city, when actually they live in Villa Rica or something like it?
By Mark
April 27, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Sweetie:
Believe me, we’ve got it good here in the “A.” Is in-town living more expensive here than in the ‘burbs? Sure it is. But Atlanta is still a raging bargain compared to other major cities. DC, Philly, the entire NYC metro, Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis, Dallas (yes, Dallas real estate is FAR more expensive than Atlanta), and the entire state of California (home of the $600,000 “starter home”) make Atlanta look like the real deal.
Any time I start thinking Atlanta is “expensive” I remember business trips or conversations with friends & colleagues in these cities and I realize that we’ve got a good thing here in the South!
By Lauren
April 27, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
Mark, I have been told on this blog to leave the state of Georgia and take my characterless husband with me. I have been told I was a fool. So don’t lecture me on politeness. The folks on this blog have been just as judgemental of me.
By muffin
April 27, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
Sweetie: I think people claim they’re from Atlanta when they live in Villa Rica because the Metro Atlanta area is so spread out. It includes surrounding counties that are at least a 45 minute hike up or down the highway. I say that I live in Atlanta, even though i’m OTP (on the perimeter)in the Doraville area because my mail can be addressed either Doraville or Atlanta. I don’t live in the city limits of Doraville so it’s unincorporated DeKalb County so my reason counts in my opinion! :)
By Lauren
April 27, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this
If you mailing address doesn’t say Atlanta then you don’t live in Atlanta. You may work in Atlanta but if you address says Conyers, Dacula, Lilburn, Alpharetta, etc…then that is where you live, not Atlanta.
By Lauren
April 27, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
Bush and EVERYONE who has aligned themselves with him over the last six years are going down in November. Bush will go down as the worst president we have ever had and all of those who have “dittoed” him since his first election will find themselves scrutinized and in most cases, defeated. If you think Republicans don’t smell defeat in the air, just look at how angry they are right now. It is hilarious to see them squirm. What is not hilarious is the absolute ruin they have gotten this country into. It will take us generations to recover from the damages of this administration. Say what you will about Clinton but we were never attacked on our own soil on his watch. No that happened with the frito swilling drunk frat boy at the helm. I blame him for 9/11 and every debacle that has come after.
By meme
April 27, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
I always make sure that I tell people I live in Lawrenceville. I don’t want to live in Atlanta. I rarely even visit and if I have to go anywhere south, I go around on 285. It isn’t that I don’t like Atlanta, I just don’t like the traffic.
By Jeff_ITP
April 27, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
This debate is silly really, there are good and bad things about living in the burbs versus living inside the perimeter. I live ITP, and I personally enjoy the convenience of living near my job. But it would be nice to have more house than I can afford where I am. Life is a series of compromises though. I think it’s fair to say though you folks OTP come inside more than we go out there though…so here’s a helpful hint…get a map, and if you don’t know where you are going pull of the road and look at your map…don’t go 10 miles an hour in the 30 mph zone and don’t just do a u-turn (without any warning) when you realize you missed your street.
By Mark
April 27, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Lauren:
Please hush.
You’ve hijacked this topic. Congratulations. If you have nothing to say on this, in the best Southern tradition, HUSH!
By Lauren
April 27, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
Mark, if you don’t like what I have to say then ignore me. It’s that simple. You can go look at another blog or just ignore my posts. But I certainly don’t have to “hush” just because you (or anyone else for that matter) don’t like what I have to say. Get ready to hear a lot more of this kind of talk over the next 7 months. People in this country are angry and we will not hush just because you find it annoying. Too bad. And I will “hijack” every blog on the AJC that I have time to be on. I think I have proven time and time again that this is a subject that people have on their minds and want to talk about. Otherwise they would ignore me. You can only hijack a blog if people let you. And you are one of the ones who have let me.
By Kendall
April 27, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Hey Jacqueline!,
Great essay. I grew up OTP and now live ITP. Traffic is the killer in both places. As you know, I have seen your “lovely four-bedroom home” and I consider it worth the ride. How are the boys?
By 4oxygen
April 27, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
Big Squatch, you’re mentality is one of the main reasons I prefer the clean air, the attitudes & open spaces OTP. I will gladly steer clear of your gat, just as long as you steer clear of my 20 gauge.
By ronnj
April 27, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
I live otp, in nj. I am relocating to ATL soon. I have to say that I have never seen a major city with no train to bring people from outside the city into said city…until Altanta. If you build trains you will reduce traffic and most people ITP will begin to move OTP guaranteed!
By BigSquatch
April 27, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
4oxy-clean, or who’ever you is, wit’ yo 20gauge dang-a-long. You just hatin’s my mentality cuz y’got sold a snake-oil-swindle-stik when you bought yo’ spread up in Dracula. Clean air? Ho-No. There smog all up to Chaznooga, all over to AL, SC, and whastever down South o’ town. Open spaces? Yeah’ maybe cuz y’aint got no trees! That dang ‘Burb-a-king done knocked all thems down when they built yo’ subzdivision- Only way they can bring in the dub’ wides w/out scratchin’ the rims!
Prefer the Attitudes? If you’d rather Miss Sassyfrass, then Ms ba-donk-a-donk- You have at it. I’s got me shiz like in the rap video- y’now wit the girlz pourin’ champagne on their head! You got you the winner of the 1993 Pickle-berry eatin’ contest!
As far as hittin’ BigSquatch w/ a 20 gauge, that ain’t gonna work. BigSquatch come in too close- gittin’ all up on you w/ his mentalities and shz!
By Alex
April 27, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
Thanks for noticing Mark. I’m surprised nobody has attacked me yet though… I express my opinion exactly because I know there are plenty of people who disagree.
Oh and BigSquatch, I don’t know if 4oxygen was joking (I kind of hope he was just playing along), but at any rate I think your posts have done a really good job of getting reactions that show how many suburban dwellers are carrying around shotguns, and are actually willing to use them against pereceived threats - which they see as coming from urban, “uneducated” black males (I know BigSquatch never said he was black, but I mean come on people).
Oh, and I don’t know how many times I have to tell everybody that HE’S JOKING. You’re just proving stereotypes of paranoid ethnocentrism about white, southern suburbanites when you tell him that “he’s the reason I live OTP.” No one who actually talks like that would use extensive punctuation and apostrophes to stand in for ommitted syllables/slang. For all we know, he’s just Mark Twain reincarnated.
You right BigSquatch. I ain’t gon’ front. I might see you in tha street but brotha I don’t know you. I wrong fo’ dat. I jus’ tryin’ to protect yo azz in case while you gettin’ crunk wit’ yo’ hos on a Friday night, some ol’ big headed, stank-breaffd KKK sheet-wearin’ fool frum Newnan or Peachtree city come roll up on yo’ block wit’ a noose and try to lynch yo’ big black behind.
By dancehouse
April 27, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
OTPs just wish they lived in the city. That’s why they tell people that’s where they live. Truth is they only come ITP if they need to go to the airport or pick up a paycheck.
If you don’t vote for the mayor of atlanta then you DON’T live in the city of Atlanta.
To the angry OTPs, all I’m saying is get some pride in where you live. And put in some sidewalks. Dang.
p.s. to all you cracker barrels hatin’ on bigSquatch- get over yourselves and your 45s and your big dogs. He’s just messin’ w you. I guess you all probably buried your sense of humor somewhere under your strip malls.
By dancehouse
April 27, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
BigSquatch for Mayor of Atlanta 2010.
By BigSquatch
April 27, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Alex, my mang! Y’sir. You catchin the BigSquatch jist, yo. (y’know I get it krunkz w/ my “ladiez”, but shiz iz every night!)
‘Preciate you watchin’ BigSqautch back! (might have to cut you in on some my Zaxby’z— dang I needz me som dat OTP bird snack….!) But’ain’t no Newner o’ P’Tree city dawg rollin’ up on my block- Shz they can’t even find th’Quarium with a pocketfull sardines (yet how they findin’ that lasershow outs on Stone Mountains?)
Mark Twain reincupulated? Nah, BigSquatch just a gangstah walkin’ up the street 1 hand in the air 1 hand on his meat! An ABCD-Gangstah!
By alblue34
April 28, 2006 02:01 AM | Link to this
We moved from to GA from CA 12yrs ago and our first home was in Lawrenceville. If you drive through the neighborhood now you wouldn’t even recognize it we lived there about 6yrs and then moved to the Park View district in Lilburn we lived there for a year before moving over to Gwen’s Ridge Subdivision in Lilburn we lived there 4yrs. We decided to move to Forsyth County 8 months ago because Gwinnett was getting two over crowded. I have come to realize the state of GA is getting to crowded,you cant escape growth. I just wish some of these developers would slow down and build the roads and the schools before building more and more homes,and we aren’t talking about 2-3 homes per acre we are talking about 5-7 homes per acre. I love Cumming GA but if someone had told me before moving here that its the number 1 fastest growing County in the state of GA and number 4 in the Country I may have thought twice before moving here. I guess we will have to buy a sailboat and live on an island somewhere. Miss everyone at Dillions
By meme
April 28, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Why do so many ITPs think that OTPs are jealous? We are all so different that we like different things. If I wanted to be and ITP, I would be.
By Terry
May 1, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
I’ve lived in big cities all over the place. L.A., San Fran, Boston, etc. There’s nothing like big city life for 24/7 happenings. However, I’ve ‘been there, done that’
When we moved to Georgia we were looking for a different kind of action - one with acreage and horses and room to just relax. We found that our here in Dacula!!!
The only thing I miss is some decent dancing! There appears to be no place OTP for dancing (except country, but that gets old pretty fast). Anybody know where one could find an assortment of dance styles? I like swing, shag, cha-cha, salsa, waltz, two-step, etc. But cannot find any options in Gwinnett. We’re still driving down to 57th Fighter or Johnny’s Hideaway. What a pain!