Gwinnett.talk

By mzthang

July 15, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

I think if will be great to extend the transit service to the gwinnett area every person tht lives in the atl & surrounding areas should benefit from a transit svc at least give them options.

By NorcrossRules

July 15, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

We don’t need Marta out in Gwinnett County! It will just bring all the criminals, thugs and rif raf from Atlanta out here—-we have enough of that already and don’t need more. Let them go to the Perimeter Mall or 5 points! Keep marta out of Gwinnett!!!

By El Marta

July 15, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Si.

By LilZ

July 15, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

I voted NO because I don’t want more crime in our area. We have enough as it is!

By a

July 15, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Why is it automatically predicated that crime would rise with transit? $4 a gallon and rising…congested interstates. Yet we still don’t want to expand transit in this state? The state still doesn’t want to contribute? Nowhere but Georgia.

By Robbie

July 15, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett is a much different place now than it was 18 years ago. I think it will pass by a landslide.

By Doog

July 15, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

A , Its not an assumption that crime would rise with transit..living in Atlanta over 40 yrs. I have seen every place a MARTA station opens,crime DOES go up, property value goes down.

By T

July 15, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Lol, What? I can see the headlines now!!!

Man breaks into Gwinnett county home, then jumps on Marta with all his loot in tow. Like no one will notice a man trying to carry a plasma tv with all the wires hanging out on Marta. LOL. Be serious.

By T

July 15, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Next days headlines: Bank robber caught outside of bank. He was waiting for the bus. lol

By OC

July 15, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Where are the stats on the crime with mass transit. I live in Gwinnett and take the train to my job near the airport. Every morning I see nurses, pilots, flight attendants, professional people like myself. I have yet to see this mass wave of criminals that supposedly thrive on mass transit. I think somebody has been watching too many Charles Bronson movies. This argument is really code for no more blacks an mexicans in gwinnett. Help me understand your vision. Somebody breaks into your home. Then while carrying your flat screen he stands outside on the street waiting for the #10 bus to take him to the train station. Think about this. Since I startted taking the train to work in March of this year I have saved $425 a month and each time gas climbs another .10 my savings continue to rise.

By G

July 15, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

These are changing times, with the price of gas and constant traffic congestion. I would welcome Marta in open arms. As far as crime goes, I do agree that Marta will need to be selective in how and where they lay the tracks for transit. The I-85 coridor would be ideal if at all possible.

By Sugar

July 15, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

NO, NO and NO. I do not want MARTA anywhere near where I live. I hate the buses, all they do is hold up traffic. I moved to Gwinnett to get away from MARTA.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!! And I certainly don’t want another penny of my hard harned money to go to this!!!!!!

I work close to home, so no need for mass transit. I get out on the roads before traffic gets thick, so I’m not idling.

I specifically moved to Gwinnett for the schools and my job. I moved closer to my job.

By Kitty

July 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

NO MARTA IN GWINNETT. My family will be voting no. I don’t care how high gas gets.

By T

July 15, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

OC I work in Norcross and live in Atlanta. I would love to see Marta make it.

By intwner

July 15, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

As gas keeps going up peoples tempers are already on a short fuse. I am sure others like me don’t have the patients to deal with nonsense on the train or bus. I told one guy the other day that I wasn’t the one. Same goes on with the homeless! Don’t let these people try to scare you stand up to them and they will back down quick.

By slaughdog

July 15, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

You anti-MARTA people are patheic. Wake up—people need options with $4/gal gas(soon to be $5/gal). Contrary to your backwoods thinking, blacks(your code words:criminals,thugs,etc.) are not the only ones that use mass transit. This current economic crisis is affecting people everyone.

Norcross Rules—I suggest you read a book entitled “What’s the Matter with Kansas”.

By Georgia Peach

July 15, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

I live in Cobb County near Cumberland Mall. Since CCT started hooking up with MARTA in Atlanta I have seen Cumberland Mall deteriorate. Unfortunately, you can see the gang members and other undesirables(not everybody)getting off the bus across the street and walk over to the mall. I hope that Gwinnett County residents think long and hard about this vote. I have seen property values around the mall go down along with crime increase.

By Patrick

July 15, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

As a resident of Dekalb (inside the MARTA service area) I support the extension of MARTA to Gwinnett, but worry about all the Gwinnett crime that will be imported into Fulton and Dekalb. Quoting another AJC article: “Mexican organized crime is moving large amounts of cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana into the country, Benson said. Gwinnett is the focal point for the Mexican drug trade here because of easy access on I-85 and a large Hispanic population where drug traffickers can try to blend in, U.S. Attorney David Nahmias said.”

By Patrick

July 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

FACT: High gas prices are here to stay. Even if they did come down, it won’t be until after they have risen to $7 or $8 a gallon. Only then they would drop to $5 or $6 and then sure to rise again. Time to face the truth, the days of inexpensive fuel are over. I’m prepared. See you at the polls.

By T

July 15, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Lol. Buses make traffic slow. Lol.
That is why the good lord invented bus lanes. Hmmmm.

Oh, you know what helps prevent loitering at malls? Security. Hmmmm.

By MP

July 15, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett county needs to think about the future. Traffic will be getting worse and gas prices will keep going up. County residents should have a choice of transportation other than automobiles. Gwinnett County finally got buses and they are working out well. With train service going up to Gwinnett Place Mall, this will greatly improve traffic and help give better access to the airport and to Atlanta where most county residents work. Marta trains will be a win-win for Gwinnett County.

By jeed

July 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

By OC

Help me understand your vision. Somebody breaks into your home. Then while carrying your flat screen he stands outside on the street waiting for the #10 bus to take him to the train station.

LMAO. You can always tell that the naysayers are passing along hearsay and have never been on the system. I ALWAYS take MARTA when possible and have never seen an incident of crime. I know incidents exists, but has anyone ever heard of carjacking? Anthing can happen at anytime, anywhere.

By MDs

July 15, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

You need only look at perimeter mall to see what happens when marta comes to your area. It went from an upscale shopping mall to a place where thugs and hoodlums hang around and intimidate people.

We aren’t talking about stealing flat screen tvs from people’s houses, we are talking about people with no job, no education, and nothing better to do hanging around places and causing trouble.

By Marta supporter

July 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

I’m so sick of the excuse that transit will bring crime. You have crime because there are criminals everywhere. Is it that you think all the criminals come from the south side? If some of Gwinnett county residents haven’t realized about the area (I guess being stuck in traffic on I 85 isn’t enough) is that this is still a car dominated city. I guess you think that all the thugs in the city only take Marta. And if you haven’t noticed doesn’t Gwinnett already have public transit? I thought they did. And if some of the readers didn’t know there is a route (GCT route 10) that goes right to the Marta Doraville station and this route is actually one of the fastest running bus routes in the metro area (every 15 minutes… Marta trains would be running about ever 10 minutes). So if these thugs really wanted to use transit to go and rob the people of Gwinnett couldn’t they do that already? I guess in some of the minds of the residents you’ll get a day off since GCT doesn’t run on Sundays. I say extend the rail. Not just north but everywhere… in Cobb and Clayton counties too. I say just have Marta take over everything and not have 5 different agencies running the same service area which is confusing.

By Wendy

July 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Come on, there’s already crime in Gwinnett County! And I ride the train almost every day, and I can assure you that I’ve never seen anyone running on to it with a stolen sofa in tow.

By Milton Jeff

July 15, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Which is more important? A couple of thugs here & there or saving thousands of dollars in gas & time with Atlanta’s god awful traffic. Besides, now with Sonny’s bill..you paranoid people can carry your guns with you to the marta stations.

By zeke

July 15, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

GOD I HOPE NOT!!!!!!!!!!! Too many criminals from Atlanta will have a basically free way to ply their trades of rape, robbery and murder! Think not? Get on the train at lennox and see what gets on! Obviously these thugs are not shopping at lennox or phipps!

By Georgia Peach

July 15, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately, Mall security cannot be everywhere. Before CCT started dropping riders off across the street from the mall there was a police precinct in the mall. So therefore, crime was almost extinct. But now, you constantly hear of robberies, muggings and so forth in the area around the mall. I am just saying to think about the consequences of voting in MARTA. Thats all. Just an observation.

By T

July 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Marta supporter

Thanks for the GCT route 10 info. It would be great to have just one service.

By MDs Again, you know what prevents loitering at malls? Security.

By atlin83

July 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

as a resident of midtown, i’m tempted to throw the argument back at the Gwinnettians - if MARTA extends to Gwinnett, all of the criminal activity and gang organization can take the train into the city.

MARTA is a good thing, and contrary to what all of you are saying, there’s no documented evidence (despite many studies) that transit, or specifically MARTA, increases crime. got a valid research study? post a link and we’ll read it. but one person’s opinion (when i lived in Atlanta and the MARTA station opened “the rif-raf” started to steal my car and set my mailbox on fire and trample my flower garden, and poor people could get to jobs easier and heaven knows we don’t want that, blah blah blah) isn’t valid for research. it’s all opinion, colored (no pun intended) by personal biases (class, race, whatever). most of the time, crime increases because the population increases as a city develops (case in point: GWINNETT COUNTY); transit doesn’t have the impact that suburban scaredies say it does.

so the challenge is: put up or shut up. find a valid, intellectually solid paper about transit increasing crime. find a document saying that when the buses or the trains started running, that the “thugs” started stealing plasma screens and stereos, and then waiting for the bus out front or carrying them down the street to the train.

By dd

July 15, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Why would I want to pay an extra percent of taxes that will do nothing to help gwinnett county for 10 years or so. No chance. Will never be worth the financial cost to Gwinnett residents.

By Ben

July 15, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I live in Chamblee about 1 mile from a MARTA station and people don’t break into the houses in my area and then get on MARTA. That is just totally false and stupid. I am sad for the people in Gwinnett, the county I grew up in, as I drive to Sugarload Pkwy every morning and see you folks stuck on I-85 as I sip my coffee and cruise at 65 mph the whole way to work. So, if you oppose MARTA that’s fine but this idea of people robbing houses and jumping on MARTA? That’s just ridiculous. The crime increases are generally in the food courts at the Malls which, in my opinion, MARTA should not run to anyway. If you run MARTA to a giant paved parking lot in Gwinnett patrolled by cameras and officers your house will be fine. Worse case scenario is you lose your Garmin GPS device from your car. And that is worse case mind you.

By PixieKissez

July 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Honestly… This is just ridiculous! I reside in Snellville myself. I was a web designer for a company Downtown Atlanta and now I work for a hospital in Decatur. A round trip to and from work is 45 miles. I went from a Rodeo, to an Escort which is honestly saving me about $20~$30 per fillup. I miss living Downtown and having easy access to the bus/train to quickly get to and from home/work. I’d drive to the train station and wait about 5 mins, jump on the train and arrive at my desk approx. 15 minutes after I got on the train.

I found the system VERY useful and as long as I kept to myself, I wouldn’t worry about too many people pestering me. I’m not going to say I was 100% comfortable, but when I’d have a peek at I-85 traffic, I’d remember why I was sticking it out on the Marta.

And try to compare Gwinnett Place Mall to Atlantic Station and Lenox… GPM is HORRIBLE now. The last time I went to GPM was about 5 years ago and I do NOT plan to return. I love Lenox and I also love Atlantic Station, but I just can’t phathom GPM getting any WORSE than it already is.

By $ Bill

July 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I got out to vote early and I hope the issue will gain some momentum and become a reality in the near future.

By atlin83

July 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

response to zeke - when i get on the train at “lennox” (actually spelled “Lenox,” for those of us from Atlanta), i see lots of people (and all kinds of people) with expensive shopping bags, Buckhead business folks, mall employees, tourists, students, and all walks of other ordinary folks.

when i get on the train, at Lenox or otherwise, people tend to sit down or stand and talk, rather than rape, rob, or murder. just a casual observation from 6 years of riding the train.

i think the “criminals from Atlanta” who want to “ply their trades of rape, robbery and murder” you’re worried about already moved to Gwinnett, or are already driving. still want them to add capacity to I-85?

By PixieKissez

July 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

And another thing…. Think with me now…

We are already being setup on 78. Three lanes in both directions and a median with side walks…

Picture This The marta bus rides down 78 either makes a RIGHT @ 124 to go to Stone Crest Mall or… a LEFT @ 124 to head to GPM. Marta is DEFINITELY in the works. Whether we like it or not.

By Thug Life

July 15, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

New Thug Rules For Robbing People In Gwinnett: 1. Take MARTA to Gwinnett County. 2. Carjack old lady in church parking lot, hit her in head with heavy object, leave her for dead on the side of the road, and take off in her car. 3. Drive into quiet cul-de-sac in middle of day and break into house. 4. Steal flat-screen TV, computer, guns, DVD’s, and bags of expensive free market gourmet coffee. 5. Drive back to southwest Atlanta with loot, unload stuff from vehicle, and leave stolen car on street full of burned out buildings when you’re done with it so that another thug can use it (and avoid the first 2 steps). 6. Plug in TV, lay back on couch, and watch your favorite programs while getting drunk. 7. Wake up next morning, make strong coffee, load guns and tuck into belt, get on MARTA, rinse and repeat.

By RAZ

July 15, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand what all the fuss is about this NONBINDING issue on the ballot. The TAD vote would mean much more to the county than any results from a straw poll.

TADs can immediately improve the areas of Gwinnett County that are declining in value and thus spawning crime and infrastructure problems.

Ohh by the way, for all of you who are worried about how to pay for the MARTA rail, the proposed line runs through the most prominant proposed TAD in Gwinnett (the OFS site). The revenue from that TAD could help ease the burden on those trying to pay for transit alternatives.

TADs cost the taxpayer nothing but can keep them from paying for the declining infrastructure in these areas (as you surely will have to in the future).

By Ben

July 15, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

“You need only look at perimeter mall to see what happens when marta comes to your area. It went from an upscale shopping mall to a place where thugs and hoodlums hang around and intimidate people.”

What? I live 3 miles from perimeter mall and what on earth are you talking about? In 1995 perimeter looked like hell and now it is bursting at the seams from all the development. Do you even go to perimeter mall? Are you thinking may Gwinnett Place Mall. The mall that has abondoned stores and gangs living in apartments next to it? Maybe that is what you are thinking.

By Open Mind

July 15, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

It seems to me that most of the opposition on this blog is because of crime and bringing down property values. Have you been to Gwinnett Place Mall? That mall went down hill without the benefit of Marta rail. Maybe marta would have helped that mall flourish with more people being able to shop there. There are several upscale shopping areas that have remained so even though they are on the Marta line (Perimeter-still upscale, Phipps, Lenox). Marta is also is neighborhoods and communities that are way more “upscale” than anyplace in the Gwinnett area that would get Marta and it seems to work.

By R1070

July 15, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

If someone is going to rob you or murder you they are most likely going to be in a car! who is gonna haul a stolen tv or a dead body to dispose of on a marta train?! And last time I was in gwinnett I wasnt really that impressed with the quality of life out there, Areas like buckhead and midtown which both have marta have a much better quality of life. Sorry for the reality check.

By Atlanta1

July 15, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I live near perimeter mall which is actually moving toward being atlantas third high end mall. If you go to a place and see a diverse collection of people and assume since they are not white that they are thugs then you have issues!

By John

July 15, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Crime increase? I don’t know. I do know that the MARTA has not done a good job of managing the current rail system. Gwinnet has done a good job with our bus system. I would be for rail in Gwinnett IF and only IF Gwinnett county could manage it.

By Starr

July 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

I strongly oppose the MARTA line. Criminals will become more prevalent in our area because they will now have a ride. It would be great to be able to use the line to commute to work, but I’m afraid of thr safety issues in that as well. KEEP MARTA OUT!! I’ll be damned sure to vote today as always.

Please accept my rhetorical statements. They belong to me!!!!!!!!!!!

By Closed Mind (with guns)

July 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

MARTA help an area flourish? Excuse me while I spit! MARTA = More Atlanta Raised Thugs Around

By SteveO

July 15, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

No! The last thing we need is riff raff coming into the city from Gwinnett County! I don’t need Pablo and Miguel riding down on the train to steal my TV set and rob my house.

Have you seen the news from Mexico, I mean Gwinett County. The crime there is out of control. If those poor people are allowed to come into the city you will see crime go way up.

Keep Gwinnett criminals out of Atlanta! Vote NO!

By Crazy Virgo

July 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

@Norcross Rules

I think being worried about MARTA bringing criminals out to Gwinnett should be the least of your worries. MARTA won’t bring any criminals to Gwinnett that are not already there!! Not to mention the fact the Juarez Cartel from Mexico and the Cuban Mafia from Florida don’t ride MARTA and they are already in Gwinnett big time!!!! My brother is a US Marshall who works hand in hand with ICE, and the DEA and he tells me all the time that Gwinnett County is a 2008 version of Miami in the mid 80’s; it is one of the biggest hubs on the east coast for distributing cocaine, ecstasy, meth, and hydroponic marijuana. Did you know that Gwinnett County has more federal agents assigned to it than cities like Tampa, Charlotte, and Nashville? And I’m talking about just Gwinnett County, not Atlanta, not the metro area, just Gwinnett County!! I hope your just not stupid enough to be a home owner in Gwinnett right now, you will never recoup the money on your investment out there buddy!!!!! Congratulations your county is home to some of the biggest Hispanic organized crime groups in the country outside of Los Angeles and Texas!!!! But yet you idiots in Gwinnett are more worried about MARTA bringing some little corner boys from the city out to your county. WAKE UP IDIOTS!!!!!

By Ben

July 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

“I don’t need Pablo and Miguel riding down on the train to steal my TV set and rob my house.”

News flash - Pablo and Miguel live in Gwinnett. Hispanic population is 11% or about 77,000 people. Most hispanic contractors drive from LAWRENCEVILLE to do construction in the city. Isn’t that interesting. Gwinnett is over 750,000 people and has no rail service.

By BPJ

July 15, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Crime rates in the city of Atlanta have actually gone down since MARTA rail began service. (The perception in certain circles may be different, but the facts are what they are.)

If Gwinnett & Cobb join MARTA, then they would have several seats on the MARTA board, and sufficient clout (voting along with some current members) to change MARTA policy in several respects. Think about it.

I ride MARTA, by choice, several times a week, and the experience has been generally good - definitely better, safer, and less stressful than driving. But even for those who never ride transit, it benefits you because it takes other cars off the road!

By T

July 15, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know if those kidnappers used the GCT to commit their crimes?

By Rest of Atlanta

July 15, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

No MARTA in Gwinnett. Keep the Mexcriment gangs in Gwinnettt.

By james

July 15, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

AJC HEADLINE

“Police caught Gwinnett robber at 3am at the new Marta station in Gwinnett while waiting on the train station to open”

By Dee

July 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Scared & weak people make me sick to my stomach.

By ATLborn

July 15, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

LOL

AMEN SteveO! Preach Preach!!

We don’t need THAT criminal element from Gwinnett coming to Atlanta.

By Bubba

July 15, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Just the rail alone would be oki, but leave the buses and bus stops out of Gwinnett. They buses cause more traffic, and are very slow. The bus stops look trashy , red dirt, shopping carts turned upside down, graffittti, unemptied trash cans. Don’t believe me…look around dekalb

By lwa

July 15, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Most people on this blog sound so ridiculous. Marta does not equal crime.

Are talking about the bus or the rail?? Most were ignorant years ago when they voted down both.

Wake up! Why do the privilege think that no one should have access to the community at large? Step out of your box and put the confederate flag in it.

By Will

July 15, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Okay, seriously, those of you opposed to MARTA, please just be honest with what you’re saying about your fears of “thugs,” “criminals,” “riff raff,” “undesirables,” “hoodlums,” and so on…

Please just feel free to post this instead:

“I am frightened by people having a different skin color than me, so I am voting no.”

No need to dance around the issue here. It’s just the internet.

By middleoftheroadman

July 15, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Heck, forget Gwinett - what about Cobb County?? We need a MARTA rail line too - and all that propaganda about crime? Poppycock - I moved here from Montgomery County MD(one of the wealthiest counties in the country) and can’t imagine what life would be like without Metro’s Red Line. Same thing in Fairfax County, VA. The fight is about who and how it is paid for, not how much it is needed.

Metro Atlanta - get with the program - Mass transit is needed BADLY in this region!!

By Chris

July 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Well, I think everyone has missed an important point. Crime has risen in Gwinnett County DESPITE MARTA! So my fellow Gwinnettian’s who do we get to blame? I believe the issue is that so many parents moved to Gwinnett but while they are at work their kids have no way to get to the great parks and recreation centers as well as shopping centers because they have no TRANSPORTATION! So they roam around your neighborhood and mine looking like some prowling gang, with nothing but time and idle hands. What did you expect? Silly rabbits!

By lwa

July 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

correction: “Are we talking about the bus or the rail?? Most were ignorant years ago when they voted down both.”

By Sharon

July 15, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I certainly hope that they don’t allow that to happen. I was in Gwinett County recently and I could not believe how dangerous it has become. I will not allow my daughter and her friends to go to Gwinnett Place Mall. I’ll allow them to go to South Dekalb Mall before I’ll allow them to visit that crime infested heckhole.

I remember when I was young and Gwinnett seemed nice. My husband and I even considered moving out there 15 years ago. Thank the lord we stayed in Brookhaven.

I live about a mile from the Brookhaven MARTA station and I shudder at the thought of what a Gwinnett MARTA line would do to my property values.

By hw

July 15, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Even if Gwinnett county wants to join MARTA, I believe that the rail extension should serve north Fulton county first because residents in north Fulton have been paying into the system for years.
Oh, and lets put up some toll booths on I-85 & I-20 at Gwinnett county line. They dont want our thugs, and we dont want their smogs.

By Sa Vant

July 15, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

This vote is meaningless except for hacks & hos who drumbeat for marta IF it “passes.”

And, BTW, for those who don’t think marta = crime, remember the thug who murdered at Macy’s Lenox Square and used marta as his getaway vehicle. Of course, with all the newcomers in Atlanta, this might as well be Cleopatra getting her asp bit off, i.e. ancient history for you lem-tards.

By Pierce Randall

July 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

It’s idiotic to conflate transit stations with crime. MARTA was the safest rapid transit system in the country in the reporting year for 2006-2007. If you look at areas of Atlanta that didn’t get MARTA stations, crime went up faster. More people walking around on legitimate business means that more eyes watching out for crime. MARTA also has a relatively large, effective, and fully-empowered police force, so that means your neighborhood gets its own patrol around the station. But if you want to be a myopic redneck for the rest of your life, and you want to consign your kids and your schools to the same fate, go ahead.

A lot of what these folks are complaining about is transit-dependent people who are often poor and already in their communities being more visible and going more places. But Gwinnett already has a bus system! (It has a bus system with heavy ridership that is hemmoraging money because of poor economies of scale and the desire to heavily subsidize Xpress commuters over local service patrons, actually.) If anything, three rail stations would add choice riders — commuters, yuppies, college students, whatever — and something that’s used by everyone is less likely to be neglected or fall in to crime.

By Ross

July 15, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

I’ve got news for you guys, the thugs, criminals, blacks, mexicans, and others that you are so scared of are already in gwinnett county in large numbers. Voting this down won’t change that in the slightest.

By Ben

July 15, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

“for those who don’t think marta = crime, remember the thug who murdered at Macy’s Lenox Square and used marta as his getaway vehicle.”

And Gwinnett’s murder rate has doubled because of what? MARTA? You already have crime climbing and it isn’t due to mass transit so find another scape goat.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/lawrencevilletalk/entries/2007/06/03/doesthedouble.html

By Get Real

July 15, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

You people act like Gwinnett is some bastion of upper middle class living. Crime has increased dramatically there WITHOUT Marta. Murders, kidnappings, and every other felonious crimes are happening there now. And the person that said property values around Cumberland and Perimeter have gone does is lying. Please provide proof to your rhetoric. Cumberland has one Marta bus that stops there. I don’t see the property values around Northside hospital decreasing because of Marta, if anything its helped the hospital recruit workers and also give the people living there an ‘alternative’ to get downtown. Buckhead and Midtown are doing just fine as well.

Who really would want to just ride the Marta line to Gwinnett day in and day out? That person obviously doesn’t have a job, and couldn’t afford the fare. Some of you opponents are afraid of more blacks coming into your bastion of upper middle class living. Like whomever you’re claiming to fear doesn’t either have a car, or access to one in the first place. I’m from Chicago and if you can commute daily from South Bend Indiana and Milwaukee to downtown Chicago, surely you can go from Gwinnett to 5 points without getting in your car. Get over yourselves, your property values are dropping anyway due to foreclosures not marta. If anything, have accessible transit near your home would be a plus when you come time to sell.

You’d rather go bankrupt paying for $6 or $7 gas, than riding on a train with ‘those people.’ Thats what it comes down to.

By Pierce Randall

July 15, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

hw, there’s not a funding trade-off against MARTA going to North Fulton. Gwinnett would be adding its own money into the system, which would be locked up in 30-year bonds to construct the Gwinnett line. If anything, you’re actually better off, because as the train creeps to North Fulton, you’ll have more places you can go in Gwinnett.

Additionally, MARTA already goes to North Fulton. The area has two Park & Ride lots, and tons of commuters use them every day. Rail stations would be preferable, but MARTA can’t really afford to build everything if county governments won’t capitulate to some of their concerns. One of the things that hems MARTA in as a system is the resistance of developers and counties to zone and develop walk-centered areas around transit stations. Go to Lindbergh City Center at Lindbergh station for an example of this. MARTA has emphatically committed to building in North Fulton, on the condition that the county meets them halfway with walk-friendly, town center-style zoning and development. There’s a plan for it at http://www.itsmarta.com/newsroom/northline.htm ; you can read all about it and even look at a map of MARTA’s proposed zoning changes.

By Mike

July 15, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Remember last week when those Gwinnett thugs kidnapped a citizen and held him for ransom? This kind of thing happens all the time in Mexico and South America where those people are from. I don’t think we need to give that type of Gwinnett criminal element access to the city. They’ll probably start riding the train into the city and kidnapping wealthy people in Buckhead and Midtown.

By john

July 15, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Don’t thugs and hoodlums hang out at EVERY mall regardless of mass transit? I’m not seeing the argument there. All I have to say is go ahead and vote it down. Enjoy sitting in gridlock on I-85. I’m glad I don’t live over there.

By $ Bill

July 15, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

@ Sharon (THE IDIOT):

How is a Gwinnett MARTA line covered by Gwinnett taxes going to affect your little piece of heaven in DEKALB? Get a life!

All of you azzholes are looking for anything to say other than something positive. Your negativity needs counseling and I suggest that you get help some help with your “not so subtle” racial issues. Open your eyes and look around, there are PLENTY of people that are walking and riding around that DON’T take a bus or train. Things happen and sometimes you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don’t blame YOUR insecurities on a certain group of people. Get some kind of social education and stop smelling yourself. Doesn’t smell too good, does it?

By $ Bill

July 15, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

@ Sharon (THE IDIOT):

How is a Gwinnett MARTA line covered by Gwinnett taxes going to affect your little piece of heaven in DEKALB? Get a life!

All of you azzholes are looking for anything to say other than something positive. Your negativity needs counseling and I suggest that you get help some help with your “not so subtle” racial issues. Open your eyes and look around, there are PLENTY of people that are walking and riding around that DON’T take a bus or train. Things happen and sometimes you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don’t blame YOUR insecurities on a certain group of people. Get some kind of social education and stop smelling yourself. Doesn’t smell too good, does it?

By RAZ

July 15, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

The arguments against MARTA moving through Gwinnett are rediculously old. I’m tired of hearing people complain about sitting in traffic, but when a viable alternative is presented to them they nitpick it to death. First off, this is a nonbinding question on the ballot. MARTA doesn’t even have to be the operator. Second, if you want to see Gwinnett grow and flourish I suggest you start looking at ways to draw businesses that could redevelop the endless sea of stripmalls. I know a lot of Gwinnett residents don’t take too kindly to that kind of forward thinking though. I find this talk about perimeter to be extremely strange. The reason it is a thriving office market is because they have transportation alternative. If you don’t start looking at ways to move Gwinnett forward, the county will be left in the dust as other counties continue to support improving their community. Gwinnett will continue to get the strip mall developments as all high quality development goes to areas like cumberland and perimeter because they are making an effort to attract them.

By andiejo

July 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Wow, are you people really serious? I live a few blocks from the Marta station at Sandy Springs and don’t feel intimidated from the riff raff relocating to SS to steal, rape and plunder!

I ride the train every day to midtown and back and generally the worse problem I have encountered is someone playing an I-pod to loud.

And at our nearest mall, Perimeter, yes, there is some riff raff (like at all malls, including, GPM, Discover Mills and MofGa) and teens mall crawling and people just shopping. I never understood how the mall parking lot is always full, regardless of the time of day. Guess that would not be the case if it was rife with crime. And it has it’s own Marta train stop. Go figure?

What makes you think that riff raff doesn’t already exist at your pristine Gwinnett Malls (with the exception of GPM - far from pristine, of course)?

By sj

July 15, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Oh please…in an area with a population as large as Gwinnett- you WILL have crime, no mater what. this is 2008- not 1988.

The fact of the matter is, we need to stop depending on foreign oil and come up with other soultions.

Traffic here is awful, I live 10 miles away and it takes me a hour to get to work.

We need solutions, not whining about crime in a county that is near one million and a metro area that is nearing 6 million.

By WhoCares

July 15, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Cry all you want. Marta ain’t gonna happen in Gwinnett

By No Way

July 15, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Ride on MARTA from the airport anywhere north after 9:00pm and you’ll see for yourself why we’re afraid….

Also, try to hear and understand what your next station is — LOL

By Gwinnett is Garbage

July 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

@Will Yes I agree that seems to be the underlying theme here. Whats funny is that “these people” act like Gwinnett is nice or something. Buckhead essentially has 4 MARTA stops- Lenox Station, Buckhead Station, Brookhaven Station, and Linbergh Center Station, and Buckhead is 10 times nicer than anything in Gwinnett. Not to mention the property values are much higher in Buckhead than Gwinnett, and there are quite a few blacks and other minorities that reside in Buckhead as well along with the numbers that dont live in Buckhead but transit there often on MARTA . With all that sad I have no idea why there is such opposition to MARTA moving to Gwinnett. MARTA has been in Buckhead for years and Gwinnett wishes it could be half as posh and upscale as Buckhead. I guess Gwinnett County residents dont mind having out of town drug dealers kidnapped and Colombian Neck Tied in a basement right next door to them, but they seem to mind poor inner city kids having access to them. Seems quite backwards to me. Gwinnett seems to be a refuge for small minded middle class to lower middle class rednecks, illegal immigrants, ex-Dekalb county residents, and Hispanic Gang members. Wow, what a great mix a people, Im sure that makes the property values in Gwinnett go sky high..LOL!!! Gwinnett isnt even that nice as far as suburbs go, Alpharetta, Johns Creek, East Cobb among others are MUCH nicer. Gwinnett County residents… PLEASE GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your County is GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Open Mind

July 15, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

$Bill, I think Sharon was being facetious.

By Aquarius

July 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

A lot of Gwinnett County has already gone to the dogs (why do you think everyone goes to the Mall of Georgia now instead of Gwinnett Mall)? Voting MARTA in won’t make any difference to the crime element. It will however, make a huge and POSITIVE difference to those who struggle with $4.00 plus gas prices and don’t have the luxury of working from or close to home. Those of you in opposition might as well get used to the idea. MARTA will be voted in by a landslide this time.

By W

July 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Wow! How arrogant Gwinnett resisdents are. Maybe Fulton county should put a county border wall to block Gwinnett county residents from taking all the jobs in Atlanta and have Shirley Franklin patrol the county border with her blow horn. We can eliminate more traffic accidents and lower pollution. Its bad enough you guys drive like bat out of hell! It’s funny how most of the weekday commutes are mainly coming from counties that conjest the roads the most just to come to Atlanta to work. Maybe the crime is high because Gwinnett commuters are invading Atlanta.

By No Way

July 15, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

There is no way that MARTA would pass in Gwinnett. MARTA has too many problems and their alternative seems to be to go to the Gwinnett Place Mall. I’d rather keep my express bus service and pay a higher rate than ride on a MARTA bus or train.

Don’t force me to have to reject MARTA, instead offer me an AmTrak alternative like they have in New York City, Boston and Chicago. Light rail does not go out to the outlying suburbs in your larger cities, the big trains do. MARTA can keep their lousy trains and buses with their hard seats. Give those of us in Gwinnett something better!!

By Hey there W

July 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Hey W,

Go ahead and build that wall. All the larger corporations would respond by moving out to the burbs where they can find better educated employees, water systems that work and are not in need of massive repairs and a lower crime rate. That wall would be doing a huge favor to those of us in Gwinnett, Cobb, Cherokee and Forsyth County that are tired of going downtown to deal with the pretty people that congregate around Five Points Station. Please send the Braves out to us, you can keep the Hawks and the Falcons

By FinanceBuzz

July 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett rail? Yes. MARTA? No.

By W

July 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

By the way, I live in Buckhead on the Marta Train Station (I do mean on the train station) and I am able to walk anywhere to go shopping and eat. Crime is at a low and property value is higher than Gwinnett County. And yes there a lot of Latinos in that area and they are no diffrent from anyone else. There are the good, the bad, and the ugly in every society.

By Andiejo

July 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

No way:

Who says? It seems you have some bad data. In the Chicago area, there is an extensive commuter rail network going to Kenosha, WI, South Bend, IL, Joliet, IL and many point in between. Residents there have many options for commuting into the city. There is even talk of extending CTA rail service into Schaumburg, where Woodfield Mall is located (one of the nations premier malls). The difference is people are receptive because it would allow the possibility to park the car and let someone else do the driving. The difference is the commuter rail service in the Chicago area uses existing rail lines through a contract with the owning railroad. The infrastructure already existed. Gwinnett would have to start from scratch to place rail lines where the population has sprouted and that is a very expensive proposition.

By Gwinnett Citizen

July 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Mass transit is part of every major city in the world, Keeping it off is meaningless. Dont run away from problem, fix it. If we dont accept now, we will keep paying oil rich nations in the years to come.

By T

July 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

By No Way

You know you are soo right. I took the train to the Braves game and it was scary. I mean where did all of those people come from? A man smuggling a dead body took up 2 seats. Another guy had a stolen sofa and tv taking up the entire rear of the car. I actually had to stand. Then to make matters worse, some Mafia type drug dealer from Gwinnett had this poor man hand cuffed right in front of the window, and I couldn’t read the sign for my stop. What is this world coming to?
LMAO!!!!

By W

July 15, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

@ Hey there W, Big corporations would never move to place where people think on a small scale. Whenever you develop a thicker skin then maybe larger corporations will come in your area. And all educated people are not the smartest people in the world. Not all educated people possess common sense nor common courtesy. That is wrong with Metro Atlanta infastructure.

By No Way

July 15, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Last time I looked there were train tracks all over the place. My single passenger SUV runs over the dang things all the time. I believe Atlanta was originally called Terminus and that the city was set up as a train destination. I hear the train everyday running along the Five Points area. Just seems like it would be easier to convert/add passenger trains than to lay new light rail lines and subway trains.

CSX and AmTrak have lines going up Buford Highway, over towards Athens and up through the North GA. I would be in favor of a Brain Train http://www.georgiabraintrain.com/mapoflinks.asp. but it would be brainless to put MARTA in a county that does not want it.

Sorry but there is no way that I want MARTA in Gwinnett.

By professional skeptic

July 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

T, you gave me my daily dose of laughter. Thanks!

By Jake

July 15, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

for past 15 years, I’ve ridden MARTA regularly. I take it to work daily now, with no regrets.

In the 15 years, I’ve been / felt threatened or in danger 2 time. Both times were after concerts and those who threatened me / I felt were threatening me were white and under 25 years of age.

MARTA may not be for you, but the issue is whether it would be right for the county. It is not perfect, no public transportation system is perfect. But it is needed for the overall benefit of the county.

By El Guapo

July 15, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

I would take marta even farther than that

http://roadstorails.blogspot.com/

By CarinP

July 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

As I student of Gwinnett I believe the MARTA will benefit more than hurt the county. I love using the MARTA because it’s a cheap way to get across town. There are rarely any sidewalks in my area, making it unsafe to walk to most places. I don’t have a car, and it is becoming a hassle for my mom to drive me everywhere, especially with the rising gas prices. The accusations of the MARTA bringing crime are ludicrous, because there is already crime in Gwinnett. We already have one of the highest drug problems in the metro area. The hostilities against minorities are fueled by prejudice, and are irrelevant. The MARTA is used by hundreds of professionals and students each day. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever had a problem while on the MARTA, and it seems as though the people that are weary haven’t considered both sides of the argument. I’m not of age to vote, but I know I would have voted “yes”. I do hope that the vote will carry, especially because the vote is only placing the extension of the MARTA into deeper consideration. -Carin P

By Hello Gwinetians

July 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

*DUNWOODY HAS A MARTA STOP AND IS FAR MORE DESIRABLE THAN ANYTHING YOU CAN FIND IN GWINNETT COUNTY. FOOLS *

By BT

July 15, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

I cannot believe some of this drivel…I’m more worried that perps from Gwinnett will come into Atlanta now than vice versa. I think people in Gwinnett have a distorted self-image or something. Why don’t you guys actually pay for some of the intown infrastructure you use instead of just causing massive traffic jams?

By Transit Rider

July 15, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett needs MARTA. The county has done an overly poor job of providing transit options to their citizens and the commissioners seemingly go out of their way to block new routes. The plan to have a county operated system is ridiculous, extend what is already in place and make it easier for us to get downtown to work. MARTA may be a poorly run organization, but our county is not capable of doing any better and a mix of several different systems will only serve egos of the Gwinnett Board.

As far as crime, Gwinnett already has plenty of it. Maybe a solid transit system would let our criminals terrorize a different county for a change

By shanden

July 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

People Don’t ride buses to committ crimes! I vote yes.

By clem

July 15, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

The ethnic make up of the county has changed . not to mention traffic woes . as far as crime is in question , you could only hope that it won’t get worse .do you really think they would commit a crime and then wait on a train? could be .. Brian Nichols did!

By Drewcifer

July 15, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

If students from Woodward Academy in COLLEGE PARK can ride all the way to the North Springs Station, dumb rednecks can ride to the Dome for the Monster Truck Rally

By lg

July 15, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

R U serious? Are we still concern with criminals “coming to Gwinnett”? Criminals have cars too. I vote yes for Marta!

By Movin_armed_republicans_through_atlanta

July 15, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Three days ago the AJC did an article on baggage theft at the airport. Where did the culprits run? You guessed it public transportation. If Marta was run with some sense of responsibility maybe, but having someone without a high school diploma and being a career welfare mother on the board is not a selling point for me.

By Lee

July 15, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Crime exists whether MARTA is in your area or not. Some of these arguments are unbelievable and makes the county look backwards. Makes the county look like a bunch of non-progressive, confederate flag waving bunch of idiots. As a white man, I am embarrassed for you who have made these some of these statements. Go ahead, sit in your freakin’ traffic to get to Atlanta and enjoy every minute of your commute. Lets don’t forget your nasty polluted air !

By WPSIV

July 15, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

I wish people would write something productive on here instead of all this drivel about crime coming from Atlanta or Gwinnett. All I know is that it is a hassle to go from school in Atlanta to visit home in Gwinnett and it is needed. Please stop talking about crime and lower property values. The name calling is also worthless since all it does is demean your own arguement.

By Jim

July 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

I went to vote with my family of five this morning, first time voting for my daughters. Since we see no near term benefit for any of South Gwinnett, we all voted NO. We have Gwinnett transit and GRTA running from Snellville to downtown and that works fine. Why increase our sales tax with no benefit?

By David

July 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Look Gwinnettians, most people in the metro area HATE going to Gwinnett County. It is the poster child example of everything that is wrong with land planning and development. MARTA in your county is for the betterment of the citizens of Gwinnett, to improve your standard of living. Is if they don’t want it, I say screw ‘em.

By $ Bill

July 15, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Jim:

How much influence did you have in your family’s voting choices? It sounds like you may have pressed the buttons yourself. LOL!

By RAZ

July 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

No Way,

I do agree that MARTA should not be forced on anyone, but there are people that need relief in the specific corridor that the light rail extension is proposed for. Taking these people off the road will benefit everyone.

I also agree that the Brain Train is an excellent option. To succesfully provide congestion relief to the region, people have to be provided with options. Sounds like this would be the better one for you, but I don’t think it should be the only one.

By NO WAY

July 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else get the feeling that all these people that are talking about having to have MARTA sound like they are selling time share vacations or used car?

By Woodie

July 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Well the issue has always been crime. Inter-city crime. That’s why people have been moving out of Atlanta for the past 50 years thereby creating the Metro area in the process. People keep wanting it to be race or something else, but it has never been about that. It’s about crime. Solve the crime problem and you’ll solve the race problem and the mass transit problem. If you haven’t figured this out yet, you don’t know Atlanta. So get a clue.

By Dude Singleton

July 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Since the county has declared my area a “high crime” area (my grass was over 12 inches), I don’t mind having more of my criminal element moving out here.
If you look at the history of Atlanta streetcar companies it is clear why extending MARTA is the only way to go. All you so called conservatives would rather start a transit company in Gwinnett for your own selfish reasons only to have it taken over by the state or sold to MARTA for pennies on the dollar don’t have my fiscal votes. Think about it, do you want some of those passengers on the road? The next time I see a criminal act on MARTA, which I haven’t in almost 20 years of riding, I’ll film it and put it on YouTube.
There is plenty of land out in the Free State of Dade if you want to move, no transit or anything.

By Asian doctor

July 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

I WAS A MEDICAL DOCTOR FOR OCCUPATIONAL MEDICINE CLINIC IN ATLANTA AND HALF THE PATIENTS I SAW WERE LAZY MARTA EMPLOYEES WHO DONT WANT WANT TO WORK, WANT A FAT PAY CHECK AND PENSION.

I HOPE GWINNET REJECTS MARTA OR WE THE GWINNET RESIDENTS WILL HAVE TO SHARE THE COST OF PROVIDING PENSION TO LAZY EMPLOYEES OF MA