Georgians@War

By Fiction

March 21, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

I have yet to meet a Vietnam vet who experienced disdain or ridicule for serving. This is the stuff of urban legend.

One of the most popular “stories” is the returning vet who comes off the plane or ship and is spat upon by “hippie” war protestors. 2.7M men and women served in Vietnam - and that many came home, excepting the 50,000 that died there - and there is not one single picture of anyone being spat upon.

Why is that? Because it never happened.

One might argue that true respect for the troops might be not sending them off to fight and maybe die for a fool and a fool’s errand.

By Nigel Baldwin

March 21, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

This document alludes to the momentum of the war in Iraq and the dismissal of the posts of military prestige.

Defense of Deviation and the unwarranted frivolous use of and authorized on behalf of the Justice Department of unprecedented narcotic warfare.

Abduction and return of susceptibility of killing of innocents as a form of tactical warfare as stated as an over haul of offensive in strategic warfare. As a statement of allusion the killing and abduction of compatriots as well as foreign compatriots is a cost of the day to day.

The political disruption of the natural course of worldly regime events that is poised as political interjections.

All locales of tactical alleviation of identification for basis, and material bias to prelude and prolog as processes to politically disruption as well as to perform the installment of Iraqi political disruptions.

The existence of incarcerations of crimes against humanity, as parameters of the grievances of the life that apply to and are in regards of military combatants and the disruption of the natural course of life.

Chemical testing parameter violations as indicated are un-prevalent and un-rivaled in the frilliness in the Geneva Convention of today as in aforementioned statements.

Nigel Baldwin

By Michelle

March 21, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

I’m with you, Fiction. It’s like the urban legend of stockbrokers jumping out the windows on the day the market crashed in ‘29. There were no suicides that day, it’s just a popular story.

By Sally Says

March 21, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Of COURSE we give dissent a voice. This is after al America. Isn’t the birth of a democracy, (Iraq), is supposedly one of the things we’re fighting for?

By sparpe

March 21, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Well, just wait until the ultra-patriots jump in here to talk about what happened after Vietnam. They’ll say that, no, they weren’t personally spit on by hippies, but they knew somebody who knew somebody it happened to. This will just show that Fiction and Michelle are right.

The very question with which Kenneth Hutnick ends his post is frightening: “Do we give dissent a voice?” The idea that someone would even pose that as a serious question bodes ill for our society. Think of the various nations in the 20th Century that answered “No” to that question. Is that really what anyone wants?

By Mark

March 21, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

I support the troops 100% and am grateful for their service. Who I don’t support is Bush, Chaney and the rest of their draft dodging cronies who lied us into a war and sent our military off to fight under equiped, under trained and with too few of them. Rumsfeld famously said you go to war with the army you have. That’s when you’re attacked. Iraq did not attack us. When you start a war, you should be darn sure your equip the miliary to win. Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld and the rest should be in jail for their criminal mismanagement of this war and for lying to the American people. 100% support of our troops. 100% disdain for our president and his henchmen.

By Jeff

March 21, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

MArk:

Undertrained?? What have YOU been smoking??? For YEARS, ALL our soldiers did was TRAIN!

Under equipped?? Again, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING??? Our soldiers have some of the best, most powerful systems IN THE WORLD, and more are being deployed virtually every day!

By Jason

March 21, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

We should handle it the same way Lincoln handled dissent from Gen McClellan … stay focused on the strategic objective and let history decide who is the real idiot … the back water woodsplitter from Illinois or the young Napoleon.

By Ed

March 21, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Not for one minute do I believe the libs who claim to support the troops 100 per cent yet they spout venom at Bush and the current administraion and how they hate them. The libs are liars, they don’t support the troops, it’s all a politcal game to them. You all want to stop funding and cut and run. The yellow streak going down your backside is wide enough to land a Boeing 747 on. How many of you have offered to pick up the check when you see a couple of overworked and underpaid soldiers in uniform eating? Do you stand and greet a soldier in uniform at the airport? Talk is cheap folks, show some action, do something for a man or woman in unifrom the next time you see one. You’ll feel great later.

By Susan

March 21, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Mark - yes, underequipped! The soldiers in Iraq have to hunt for pieces of metal to armor their vehicles and have had relatives in the States buying the kevlar vests that aren’t available from the Army. Same for the helmets that could reduce the number of Traumatic Brain Injuries that are the result of the IEDs.

yes - undertrained. They pulled the Nat’l Guard, who had never had to train for urban warfare and are now pulling troops from non-combat positions they have had, handing them a weapon and sending them into battle.

You can easily find info about all of this by googling it because the Mainstream Media rarely mentions it. Yes. I support our troops - I want them to come home sooner than later and alive.

By Susan

March 21, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

Ed - The best way to support the troops is to bring them home. They never should have been sent to Iraq and every soldier that dies is another life that is lost because of the lies of the Administration. Can’t you figure out that you can support the troops and not support an illegal war? That’s not a difficult concept. And yes, I do thank soldiers for what they have done every chance I get. I would also offer to buy a meal, etc. You have a very skewed view of “liberals”. Too much Fox News, I’ll bet.

By GBO

March 21, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Dissent is for the crazies! The nuts get out there and scream and yell about Bush and the gov’t. They paint their hair purple, pierce their noses and sing and dance like they live in the 60’s….tranlation EXTREME LOSERS! They have been beat up and pushed around their whole life and this is their big cahnce to feel good abot them selves. Agree with them or not, they are loons! The calm, normal people may have an opinion but getting out there and acting like a nut job and saying disrespectful things basically proves what a nut job you are. When they see them on the news, no one ever says ” Oh yea, I agree with them. I admire them.” They say ” I may agree or disagree with what they are saying but what a nut job loser that person is!” Disagree with the President but keep in mind, he is still the leader of this country, no matter your party or no matter who the President is…respect the position. Best place on this earth. Thats why every nation on earth comes to the US for help. The littel buddies from SOuth of the Boarder run thru the desert to come and get their “free” stuff and complain who mistreated they are here in a nation they don’t belong in. Funny how they can hate us but love our $$$$$. Critics in the US are the same. You enjoy the right to act like a nut job because of the military and what they are doing. Keep up the good work U.S. Military!!!

By Matt

March 21, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Susan, I could not have said it better myself.

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Ed and GBO - sounds to me like you have a warped sense of us “libs”—-I certainly do not have a yellow streak down my back, and GBO it sounds to me like you are the one screaming and yelling about a lot of things you have no clue about…too much Fox News…try another source for once.

Our country that you so love was founded by men who disagreed with their government and decided to do something about it. That’s called dissention. Look it up.

And as far as how we should handle dissention?….anyone who thinks for one minute that they have the right to tell me that I can’t disagree with our government is a traitor to our country and the principles upon which it was founded.

By You know it

March 21, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

A friend of mine that returned home on leave from Iraq, stepped off the plane and a little girl he had never met before, gave him a teddy bear and thanked him for serving in Iraq. It broke my heart to hear that.

My fiance returned home in April of 2005 from Iraq. If it is mentioned that he served, a stranger buys him a drink and pats him on the back and thanks him profusely for time served.

I thank him all the time for doing what he did, but he knows that I don’t support the war and never have. I met a friend of his that lost his arm in the war. I met another that was injured in the second battle of Falluja and got shrapnel stuck in his belly. It’s a terrible price soldiers have to pay at the expense of our freedom. For that I am grateful, but I do not support THIS war. Bring home our wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, family and friends.

By Joe

March 21, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Susan, what a nutty post! Illeagl war? Is that the same war that was voted to stay in by Congress(Dems and Repubs both)? The same war that still can even get a vote to cut funding or to give bench marks? Yes it is. Seems the Dems still can’t get a vote to withdraw! Either they are the most unorganized party or elected officials still want us to be in the LEAGL war. This is the same war against the country that Clinton and his cabinet publically said has WMD’s and would use them(no matter if they found them or not. Intel was the same it seems!)I hope we keep bombing them, killing terrorists and stoping those mad men over there. Killing and war is all they know. Not talk or as Hilbillary Clinton says ” chat, creat a dialogue.” They understand death and that weak mided fools like you are their hope to winning. They hope nuts like you get us to withdraw. They’d have us then. And mostly, how can you say the soldiers should not be there? These wonderful soldiers sign up to serve, train to fight and then they get that shot now. So you, a non soldier, says they don’t need to be there? Why, you sit at home and watch TV. I am from a military family and I am proud we are doing the job. I am ashamed of those who suggest cut and run or is it the Democrap thing to say “redeploy!” Vast majority are glad to be there. Unless you watch 60 minutes who shows 5 troops who say “we want out” then skew the true military polls. You need to realize that only 1% of all military personnel support the democratic withdrawl. .01% of the serving troops want that as well. So 99% and 99.9% want to be there so I say, people like you need to hug a tree! Paint your hair purple like GBO posted and sign a song, dance, play the tamborine and smoke a joint! Write a poem to Sean Penn or Vietnam Jane Fonda…no better yet, watch the elephant lady Rosie Odonell and scream and shout at the US flag. Maybe then you will feel good for those years of being bullied and picked on. Lunch money stolen or no one caring if you exist. This is your big chance to matter. GBO is right when he says disagree but keep respect for the President and mostly, respect your self! Don’t be such an idiot! I am a proud Republican and I always respected Clinton while in office. He was the leader of our country. I may have disagreed with some things but I respected the man and NEVER bashed him like they bash Bush today.

By Fiction

March 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Some of the soldiers leave limbs behind in Iraq, if they’re lucky enough to come home. Many of them have permanent brain damage from IEDs exploding near them.

And Ed thinks he’s a patriot because he buys their coffee at the airport.

Moron.

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Bush and co. are a bunch of pansy draft dogers and have no business running a war just look at the mess these wimps have made.their geography sucks too they invaded the wrong country

By michelle

March 21, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS AND NOT SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!!!

some of you are complete idiots that don’t read…or can’t. nobody wants to cut off funding for troops already over there, THEY WANT TO CUT OFF FUNDING FOR TRAINING THE TROOPS WHO ARE STATESIDE, hence, effectively making sure that the troops who don’t have the funding can’t meet training requirements. we wouldn’t send any of our troops untrained now would we?

and all of this BS about you can’t support the troops and not support the president. i loathe this administration, but here i sit SUPPORTING THE TROOPS. how? because my brother is about to go back over for his 2nd tour. i pray to that this legislation gets passed and he gets spared to be sent back. i support him and the choice he made BEFORE bush was in office.

By GBO

March 21, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

Hey Dissenter…take a reading comprehension class. I said “Disagree with the President but keep in mind, he is still the leader of this country, no matter your party or no matter who the President is…respect the position.” That means dissent all you want but not to the extent of calling Bush “Hitler” or a “Terrorist.” I disagree with him on issues but I still respect the man. Like Joe said down below, I too never lost respect for Clinton no matter my different opinions. I kept respect for him. “Dissent=Dissent is a sentiment or philosophy of non-agreement or opposition to an idea (eg. a government’s policies) or an entity (eg. an individual or political party which supports such policies)” No where does it say disrespect or act like a nut job or say crazy things about someone in the definition.

By Jackie

March 21, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

I think Kenneth Hutnick has it all wrong.
I am a Viet Nam and came home in 8/69 through San Francisco wearing my uniform and had to stay in the Bay Area for 3 days. Had no problems and everyone was pleasant. The urban legends are all over the place. As for Ed, why is it he can speak profusely about what our military needs to do when he does not go to the nearest recruiting station and raise his right hand. It is one thing to speak of what should be done and entirely something else when you have the actual experience. Has anyone noticed, the chicken hawks in Washington have not been a part of the military!!!!!

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

ever hear of the snowball effect?Bush is fuel for the fire that is islamic extremeism.Bush is spreading terror faster than we can fight it.you cant fight an idea with a gun

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

I agree with Mark. When you go to war, you go their with the intent of winning and defeating the enemy. It certainly looks like we were under equipped and under trained when we go over their fighting a ground war with a 3rd world country. It makes no sense at all other than being suicidal. To hell with being humanitarians. If you’ve got planes and missles, use them. If the other country’s that hate our guts thought about doing the humanitarian thing, the WORLD TRADE CENTER would still be standing in New York today.

By Joe

March 21, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

You acn support the troops and hate Bush. VERY POSSIBLRE. Its all the disrespect for the office of the President that gets me. My momma raised a respectful person in me. I wonder if those who disrespect had Mommas or Daddys to teach them repects. You say no one wants cut off funding and that is true becuase elections loom. If they did not, funding would be cut. It would bring a tough road for the Dems if they cut it off now. So they devise a plan to put in bench marks along with the funding Bush asked for. Now, I say, if they support the troops like they claim, pass the funding asked for in a seperate bill and then try to pass bench marks. The Dems want to lump it all together so if they ever get enough votes to pass it and Bush vetoes it, they’ll have another thing to scream at him about. O look, he would not support the funding he asked for. Blah Blah. Funny, they hold power in congress but can’t pass the bill. I guess that means there are still the majority of elected officials who say lets get this finished. To those who oppose this war, it is your right and I respect that but you need to face 1 fact, for 2 more years, you will be angry at Bush because it will not end. Troops will stay. Only if Hillbillary or Barrak Osama get elected will it end. Iran seems to be next too so pack a lunch, we’ll be there a while. I am looking forward to that too. That means more protests and goofy looking people on the news. Those protesters they show on the news are entertaining. reminds me of the circus. Kind of a 60’s version of Ringling Bros. Love the purple hair and love beads. Oh, Fox news dominates the news market. Wwonder why? Must be a Bush plot with fake ratings.

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Ed, how can you sit there and throw that junk about lying Libs into this? The Bush Administration has been proven to be a bunch of ruthless lying cold hearted cheats. Everyone with an ounce of sense knew something was up when Colin Powell resigned. He wanted no part of their lying mess.

By GBO

March 21, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

Funny, you say we are over ther causing a snowball effect. If I am not mistaken, 3000 plus were killed in the WTC buildings before we invaded Iraq. OH, I know, we were asking for it from before. FrankLeeDarling calls bush and friends pansys. A pansy my friend pulls out and leaves the Middle East, serious Americans stay and fight until we accomlish what the great Ronald Regan said during the cold war ” We win, they lose…Simple.”

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

war is for people who cant play guitar.people with purple hair are what makes this country great.right wingers just sit around and do nothing but complain. just like Bush and company did when it was their turn to serve this great country.

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. just what is winning in iraq?

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

The biggest accomplishment of the Bush Administration is that they’ve INCREASED THE PRODUCTION OF BODY BAGS

By Jeff

March 21, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Native @ 12:57:

How then did we subdue an entire COLUMN of Iraqi armor with ONE BOMB???? (A “brilliant” weapon called SFW or Sensor-Fuzed Weapon… one of the MANY new weapons being fielded in Iraq, Afghanistan, or both.)

I do agree with you on “humanitarian” though. Bullets in heads and leave. Only way to win a war. If you’re worried about anything else, you lose.

Difference between WWII and Vietnam? Military was allowed to do its job in the 40’s. Not so in the 60’s or later….

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

My daughter had to write a paper for one of her classes. She needed to have references from the internet with her paper. The topic she was given was “Opposing the Removal of Troops from Iraq”. I thought this would be easy, so I immediately told her to put that topic in GOOGLE and she would find all kinds of reference. BAD ADVICE, there is nothing in Google, all the articles focus on being In favor of Removing Troops from Iraq. The only people opposed to it is the BUSH ADMINISTRATION where he has always stated that he would VETO any measure that calls for the removal of troops.

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

My, My, Funny How Time Flies, huh? Where were all these At Least Respect The Office of the Presidency when Clinton was in office?

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

What the SHID hit the fan on this one for Bush and his cronies. A House panel on Wednesday approved subpoenas for President Bush’s political adviser, Karl Rove and other top White House aides, setting up a constitutional showdown over the firings of eight federal prosecutors.

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Watch the SHID hit the fan on this one for Bush and his cronies. A House panel on Wednesday approved subpoenas for President Bush’s political adviser, Karl Rove and other top White House aides, setting up a constitutional showdown over the firings of eight federal prosecutors.

By Michelle

March 21, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

“Funny, you say we are over ther causing a snowball effect. If I am not mistaken, 3000 plus were killed in the WTC buildings before we invaded Iraq.”

I wondered how long before some idiot mentioned the WTC bombings. Iraq had nothing to do with Sept 11, moron. Even the Bush administration that you are so in love with admits to it. As for being un-american or a traitor for disliking George W, I can still remember every one of you conservative jackasses calling President Clinton “Slick Willie” and every other disrespectful name under the sun, so don’t even pretend like you’re not a hypocrite.

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Preach Michelle Preach. You’re telling nothing but the BUTT NAKED TRUTH. I’ve never referred to Mr. Bush by anything other than his name. That’s Respect. But I remember these Neo Cons always calling Clinton Bubba.

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Most politicians get a street or building named after them. I think it would be fitting that we NAMED A CEMETERY after Bush and Rumsfeld. That would be a great way for showing them how much we support their WAR ON ERROR. Sorry, I meant TERROR.

By jeff

March 21, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

No matter if you were for the war or against it, If we pull out now, before the Iraq Government can sustain its self, what do you think will happen?
We pulled out of Vietnam and when the North rolled in in ‘75 the executed every single teacher, preacher, politician, and anyone who at anytime helped the Americans. Where were the protesters then, They turned a blind eye to that!

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Just how does the war in Iraq make the U.S safe from terror attacks? to think this is to misunderstand terrorism. While we are in Iraq securing oil interest. Al qaeda is in pakistan planing their next attack. we have taken our eye off the ball and i fear we will pay a price for this mistake.what then I see no real goals relating to fighting terror in this country being accomplished in Iraq

By GaNative

March 21, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Ummm, Jeff, I didn’t turn a blind eye to Viet Nam when we pulled out. I just didn’t SHIVE A GIT about what happened afterwards. Really, what would you rather have, Dead American Soldiers, or Dead Iraqi Preachers, Teachers, and Politicians? If we had bombed the place like we should have, they might be dead anyway.

By FrankLeeDarling

March 21, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

I have no intrest in nation building. schools in iraq? not when im being asked to pay extra tax in fulton county to fund schools here. If Iraq wants democracy let them fight for it.

By Jack

March 21, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

I served 4yrs active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps and 2yrs active duty in the U.S. Army and was in the military during the very first war in the gulf, Desert storm. I proudly and lovingly support our troops and I thank God for their volunteer service. I do NOT agree with this war but I support our troops. I give my heart and tears to my fellow servicemen and women. The sacrifices they and their familys make are tremendous, they are true heros. Not only are we seeing them die for this country but they also are coming home forever medically messed up. From severe brain injuries to post tramatic stress syndrom to just plain emotional psychiatric messes not to mention disfigured or missing a limb. EVERY american should pray for these men and women in uniform everyday. They should embrace them, help them and love them. I personally think that we as a country have let the men and women in uniform down as far as giving them the help and medical attention that they need after they come home messed up. I watched a special on the war last night on georgia public broadcast television and it made me cry then it made me mad as hell. You can protest about the war, be against it, hate it but DAMN IT you better respect, honor, embrace and love the men and women in uniform fighting this war. I think we should fly the american flag at half mass until this war is over, every morning have 10 minutes of silence to pray for and thank our soldiers, every church should start their sunday service with a special prayer for our soldiers. If every american could understand the dedication, sarifices, pain, tears, sweat, blood that our soldiers give for this country, then maybe the soldiers would get what they deserve, love compassion and respect.

By Jack

March 21, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

I served 4yrs active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps and 2yrs active duty in the U.S. Army and was in the military during the very first war in the gulf, Desert storm. I proudly and lovingly support our troops and I thank God for their volunteer service. I do NOT agree with this war but I support our troops. I give my heart and tears to my fellow servicemen and women. The sacrifices they and their familys make are tremendous, they are true heros. Not only are we seeing them die for this country but they also are coming home forever medically messed up. From severe brain injuries to post tramatic stress syndrom to just plain emotional psychiatric messes not to mention disfigured or missing a limb. EVERY american should pray for these men and women in uniform everyday. They should embrace them, help them and love them. I personally think that we as a country have let the men and women in uniform down as far as giving them the help and medical attention that they need after they come home messed up. I watched a special on the war last night on georgia public broadcast television and it made me cry then it made me mad as hell. You can protest about the war, be against it, hate it but DAMN IT you better respect, honor, embrace and love the men and women in uniform fighting this war. I think we should fly the american flag at half mass until this war is over, every morning have 10 minutes of silence to pray for and thank our soldiers, every church should start their sunday service with a special prayer for our soldiers. If every american could understand the dedication, sarifices, pain, tears, sweat, blood that our soldiers give for this country, then maybe the soldiers would get what they deserve, love compassion and respect.

By Jack

March 21, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

I served 4yrs active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps and 2yrs active duty in the U.S. Army and was in the military during the very first war in the gulf, Desert storm. I proudly and lovingly support our troops and I thank God for their volunteer service. I do NOT agree with this war but I support our troops. I give my heart and tears to my fellow servicemen and women. The sacrifices they and their familys make are tremendous, they are true heros. Not only are we seeing them die for this country but they also are coming home forever medically messed up. From severe brain injuries to post tramatic stress syndrom to just plain emotional psychiatric messes not to mention disfigured or missing a limb. EVERY american should pray for these men and women in uniform everyday. They should embrace them, help them and love them. I personally think that we as a country have let the men and women in uniform down as far as giving them the help and medical attention that they need after they come home messed up. I watched a special on the war last night on georgia public broadcast television and it made me cry then it made me mad as hell. You can protest about the war, be against it, hate it but DAMN IT you better respect, honor, embrace and love the men and women in uniform fighting this war. I think we should fly the american flag at half mass until this war is over, every morning have 10 minutes of silence to pray for and thank our soldiers, every church should start their sunday service with a special prayer for our soldiers. If every american could understand the dedication, sarifices, pain, tears, sweat, blood that our soldiers give for this country, then maybe the soldiers would get what they deserve, love compassion and respect.

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Amen Jack!

By Michelle

March 21, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

“If every american could understand the dedication, sarifices, pain, tears, sweat, blood that our soldiers give for this country, then maybe the soldiers would get what they deserve, love compassion and respect.”

How about those soldiers that gang-raped the 14 year old girl and then torched her entire family, how much love, compassion and respect should I show them?

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Oh Michelle, come on….that’s ridiculous to bring that up. Yes, that is horrible, and yes, those soldiers need to be burned at the stake after having their testicles bitten off by wild dogs, but don’t use that example to characterize the entire United States military.

I’m a big, giant liberal with many many big giant liberal friends, and I have never heard not one of my friends say anything but praise for our military. I think to say that a liberal doesn’t support our troops is the same as those idiots who, during the 2004 election, said that Democrats would be too easy on national security. That is just complete nonsense. A Democrat, just like everyone else, just simply doesn’t want to die in a terrorist attack and to say so is just plain stupid.

Another thing I don’t understand and would like for Ed or GBO to explain to me is why do you neo-cons always call liberals “liars?” What exactly are you talking about and what do we lie about all the time. To hear neos like you talk, we just simply can’t open our mouths without lying and I would like to know what EXACTLY I and the other “liberals” here on this blog are lying about.

By Michelle

March 21, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Oh, I would never lump ALL soldiers in the same category as those animals, anymore than I would want to be lumped in the same category as people who throw rocks or spit on people. I just think it’s ridiculous that we should automatically treat every person in uniform like they’re some kind of hero. A uniform is no indicator of the heart that beats beneath it, keep in mind Jeffery Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh and Lynnie England were all soldiers. I don’t think anyone would call them heroes.

By Jack

March 21, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Michelle: I will pray for you and your ignorant words and thoughts. You have no idea. Until you put on a uniform and ship out to war and eat so iraq sand then please dont be a Jane Fonda and say ignorant things. Going to war is tremendous psycological warfare, the horror you see, witness, experience cannot even begin to be put into words. These men and women in uniform fight not only a war but also a self within psycological war. They are seeing their friends/family get killed, blow up, mutilated, lose limbs, get parilized, get severe brain injuries. They see the useless stupid religious war being fought between the people of iraq.

I am not taking up for the rape, yes it was very wrong and their is not a excuse that could make it okay. However did you ever hear the media tell you what their physcological state was because of the war? If you experienced the hate, voilence, death, blood shed, and horrible negative stuff that takes place over their that we back here in the US dont even hear about or know about, could you make rational, educated decisions? It’s not right but it is what it is and sometimes trama can make you do things that you would never even consider or do under normal circumstances. And YES they should be punished under the stiffest penealty of the law.

But please take some time and breathes and fully think about your opionion before making it……

By Jeff

March 21, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Dissenter:

That troops are “undertrained and underequipped” for one….

That President Bush is responsible for the economy AT ALL for another…. (simple basic economics will tell you that one man - can NOT dictate an entire economy in a capitalist setting!)

I could go on and on…..

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

I, for one, know that President Bush is not personally responsible for the economy, but his administration’s idiotic policies are. This war is the reason our economy is in the toilet. No, Jeff, we are not stupid enough to think that one single man is responsible for the economy’s downfall.

The troops ARE underequipped….ask any military family who has had to buy out of their own pocket a bullet-proof vest to send to their loved one in Iraq or Afghanistan, or to the crippled soldier whose Humvee was blown up because of the inadequate armor….

I certainly do not think that all “lying liberals” think that our military is undertrained, but yes, some of them are.

You are allowing one person who posted earlier speak for an entire group of the population…not a very bright thing to do. You pick out one statement out of hundreds and use that…that’s just plain sad. Neo-cons usually pick out single Bible verses to fit their agendas as well. You call us liars and are such hypocrits.

Karl Rove is probably being served with a subpoena right now…I can’t wait to see that fat a* squirm like the pig he is!

Liars? You need to look in the mirror and never throw stones in glass houses!

Oh, I could go on and on as well….

By MrLiberty

March 21, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Before a soldier just “follows orders” he has a responsibility to himself, the constitution, and to international law to find out if what he is being asked to do is illegal, immoral, unconstitutional, or possibly even a war crime.

Nobody who went and served in Iraq bothered to do this. The evidence was readily available. I certainly knew that Iraq posed no harm to us, was never intending to attack, and possessed no WMD’s. I found it out just by reading LewRockwell.com and Antiwar.com. Daily they discount with facts the lies now being told about Tran. If you don’t bother to look beyond the lies being told by the president, the vice president, fox news and the like, then you are an enabler. If you went to war, then you are a war criminal, not a hero.

The standing military of the US does nothing to protect our liberties from enemiew (neither foreign nor domestic. They have not since probably the war of 1812. They are nothing more than an extension of the empire in its quest for world dominaiton. Enemies both foreign and domestic remember? While they were killing innocent Iraqi women and children our president was destroying our liberties. Where have they been.

There is nothing but time for dissent. People can’t understand how Germany’s army could be as they were, yet our military is just as bad as them.

When a real soldier like Lt. Watada stands up and says no sir I won’t go, and then they work for snd support libertarian and other like minded candidates who actually care a bout freedom, then I will begin to praise. Until then, the disgrace is theirs and they should learn to live with it. The innocent people they killed CANT anymore.

By Michelle

March 21, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

“Ignorant” is just an insult conservatives throw at anyone who says something they find offensive. I would rather be a Jane Fonda than a murderer.

By Jeff

March 21, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty:

The only laws that matter are the laws of THIS country. I recognize no “international” court, and I press Congress to do the same.

By Tracey

March 21, 2007 6:27 PM | Link to this

One of the biggest problems is the Rules of Engagement. Thats why so many of our men have been killed to start with, although they have recently changed them. The first part of the war they might as well have fought with their hands tied behind their backs. The soldiers that raped the girl and killed her family were morons and deserve what they get. One of which had been diagnosed as pyschotic and should have been removed several months prior, instead they gave him meds and sent him back and didnt check to see if the meds were working for 3 months. And in those 3 months the murders occurred. Then they removed him from service,before finding out what hed done( A little late dont you think) But dont compare our whole military to those crappy few! Youll find crappy people in every aspect of life, Politicians,Police,Judges,CEOs etc.Watch the local news. As for politicians, they are all liars, never met or heard of any that werent. Its all about power and they will always say whatever it takes to get elected. Just like all the Dems and others who voted for the war are turning their backs on our troops because election time is coming and they have to put on a good show. Used to you could vote for who you believed in, now you have to just choose between the lesser of two evils. They all stink, and while I disagree with ALOT of things that Bush has done(as well as every other Pres. before him)at least he has the ba**s to make a decision and then stand behind it to the bitter end instead of turning his back on our troops just to get a few lousy votes!All they do is waste money anyway. For instance, spending all this time and money trying to get early troop withdrawal,which Bush already said he would veto.Why not spend some time and money on something they can actually accomplish? We are going to be in a sad sad state come election time, especially with the choices we are going to have. God help us all! I think hell be the only one that can.

By MUTT_H8R

March 21, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

The OVERWHELMING majority of our military supports this war, the president, and those that have been to the desert see the the good being done and the devastating consequences of “cutting and running”. You idiot liberals don’t get it, and your venom against the effort being made and your desire to undermine our troops’ mission while claiming to support them is one of the most disingenuous positions ever.

I raised my right hand and joined the National Guard last year, I guess that makes me another brainwashed right-wing chicken hawk, huh???

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

That’s another thing I hate to hear…things like “you idiot liberals don’t get it”….enlighten us MUTT, please. Tell me what I’m not getting because spewing nonsense like that makes you seem like a brainwashed right-wing chicken. Don’t sit there and call us idiots just because we disagree with you. Believe it or not, an overwhelming majority of the military may support this war, but an overwhelming majority of Americans and humans who live on this planet and have to deal with this mess DO NOT.

By Tracey

March 21, 2007 7:01 PM | Link to this

Not in my opinion, I take it as you standing up and being a man and standing up for what you believe in. Unlike these morons commenting on here. They probably dont know what service is. However they do know that most of the people that comment here have family or friends that are in Co H 121st and thats who the stories have been on and they really just want to p*ss us off. At least they arent calling them baby killers today. Oh wait thats what Al Qaeda is doing now.

By Dissenter

March 21, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

Instead of name calling, why don’t you explain what we don’t get. If you want people to take you serious, you need to be able to explain your thoughts instead of just name calling—leave that to the children on the playground.

One thing that makes this such a great country is that we have the right to disagree with one another. I hear neo-cons scream all the time nonsense such as “if you don’t like this country, then leave!” Well, the thing is I don’t want to leave. I love this country and I even love living here in Georgia (even though it’s somewhat backwards and you can’t buy beer on Sundays but that is another blog).

You sit there and call us names, but you have nothing to back it up. No, I don’t support this war, I think it was completely misplanned and we went into war under false pretenses. If I were Colin Powell, I would never be able to sleep at night or look at myself in the mirror after he sat there and told the UN false information. If I were him, I’d be so incredibly mad that I was USED like that.

Iraq did not have WMDs—they just were not there. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Al Qaida.

Bush and his cronies have been the most covert administration this country has ever and I hope will ever see. They use the “all in the name of national security” card to cover up their lies. Hell, 9/11 was good for them because they don’t have to account for their complete and incompetent actions! If I had lied to Congress and covered things up, I’d be in jail!

In my opinion, Bush and his cronies are the biggest threat to our national security. You can not fight an idea, which they are trying to do. They want democracy around the world, but do not abide by in their own country.

If you’ll read my first post from this morning, you’ll see my original point….I, as an American citizen, have the right to disagree…to dissent. The Constitution gives me that right.

As for the military? MUTT, I’m glad you joined up. Good for you! Believe me, you don’t want me in the military. I’ve never held a gun in my life…I’d spazz out and kill someone by mistake. I’m glad there are people like you in the military. I’m glad that I have the U.S. military behind me to give me my freedoms.

The real issue is just how you view the world. I believe all humans, not just Americans, should be safe and fed. I hate seeing those fundamentalists ruining our world. I don’t think about just myself, I think about those outside my yard. I believe all humans are owed the respect of each other and deserve the same rights. I hate fundamentalism everywhere—-it is bad for everyone. Fundamentalists believe that their way is the only way and their beliefs are the only ones that matter and be damned everyone else. That is not healthy for any society…even ours.

But name calling and calling liberals idiots with nothing to back it up is simply another form of fundamentalism which is the complete opposite of democracy.

By Tracey

March 21, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

Well, for one thing I did spell it out a little more further above. Second, my brother is over there fighting now and hes pretty much paid for my freedom to say whatever the hll I like. He in the group thats written about here in this column and as a family member I guess I get a little irritated when people are constantly here downing our troops, calling them baby killers and murderers. We love and miss them. Our soldiers arent just running around killing everyone, they are shooting only when shot at. But even here at home we have the right to defend ourselves. Nothing is ever spoken about the good we do there for those people.All our soldiers have paid a price for being there but they love our country and are glad to be a part of it. I know this war has cost him a lot including his marriage to someone he truly loved, not only did she dump him but spent all his money and has moved not one but two men into his house, but Im not blaming Bush, I blame her. Every politician we have ever had has lied to the people. Thats why I rarely believe anything that any of them say because they all have an agenda. Clinton did some things right but he also did alot of things wrong. Talk about disgracing the office(Monica Lewinski), but he could have handled Bin Laden a long time ago and we wouldnt be dealing with alot of this crap now. Pick a President and someone will have a problem with something they did, but we(USA) cant let ourselves be pushed around by other countries. Its funny how everyone hates us but we are the ones they come running to to fix all their problems. They just want us to give them money and shut up. Well they cant have it both ways. Its funny they call us the United States because thats something we rarely are.But it really doesnt matter what I think,nothing is going to change.Not enough people will stand up for what they believe in to get anything accomplished.Of course the politicians talk alot but they are only worried about being reelected and will say whatever it takes. Just as my brother is fighting for my freedom hes also fighting for yours. Just as you are entitled to your opinion I`m entitled to mine. Thats what makes this country great. I just feel that even if people dont agree with the war they should support our troops until the end and if they cant stand behind them, by all means stand in front of them. They have sacrficed alot for this country and what has anyone sacrificed for them. Calling them murderers, killers,baby killers . I just think that is wrong. But thats just my opinion. You know what they say about opinions though. They are like a**oles and every ones got one.

By OIF Vet

March 22, 2007 7:36 AM | Link to this

As a very proud member of the 48th Brigade and as an Iraqi Freedom veteran (proud of that, too); all I can say is this: dissent is critically necessary in all FREE societies. It would be very unpatriotic to remain silent if you believe that your government is acting in error. However, we all have to agree that some of the voices that have raised up both for and against the war have done so without any regard to truth, and without any regard to what the consequences of their words and actions may be. I was in Iraq when a politician started accusing us of “terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night” while another was saying in a national forum that “the idea that we can win this war is just plain wrong”. All I have to say on both counts is: I was on the ground there, and I disagree strongly on both counts. And of course, I was puzzled when some of the voices on the other side of the debate were saying that the insurgency “was in it last throes”. Where did these people get their “facts”?
I believe the problem we are having is NOT that we have disagreement (IT IS OK TO DISAGREE, PEOPLE!), but that instead of having a reasoned, respectful exchange of ideas we all have let the demagogues and the imbecile to drive the debate. That is the real problem…

By Mistee Lambert

March 22, 2007 8:03 AM | Link to this

GOD BLESS CO.H !!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Jeff

March 22, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

Dissenter:

Pick up a copy of Dale Brown’s Warrior Class and watch President Thomas Nathaniel Thorn. (You get an even better view on his foreign policy in the book right after that, Wings of Fire.) THAT is how I believe our foriegn policy should be: Pull every single soldier back to within our own borders and SECURE THEM WITH EVERY PIECE OF MILITARY HARDWARE WE HAVE. Then let other countries fend for themselves and act as a disinterested neutral third party.

YES, I think that “all humans, not just Americans, should be safe and fed.” I ALSO believe that “all humans are owed the respect of each other and deserve the same rights” - with a few exceptions (as in I do NOT believe that we should ahve any type of one world government).

HOWEVER: I think that everyone else should secure those things the same way we did: by standing up for ourselves, and making do on our own. There are no guarantees in this world other than that once you are born, you will die. What makes the Iraqis of 2007 any different than the Americans of 1797???

By GBO

March 22, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Michelle…you are still and idiot. Snowball effect as you say is not so. The WTC terror attack was caused by what? Nothing except some idiot terrorists. Iraq was the result of Bush continuing where Clinton left off. Saying what a threat Sddam was and getting the terrorists he hid out as well. Bottom line is Bush will run the country for 2 more years, buy a box of tiisue to wipe the tears and a blind fold so you don’t see things you don’t like. MAybe you can subpeona me for my opionion like the idiot dems are doing. Did they subpeona Clinton for firing 96 people….NO! There was no ploitical usage like the Dems want…create a controversy to help get eleceted.

By Joe

March 22, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

I support the troops and hate to see a war like anyone. No one wants to fight and die but the men and women who do, my hats off to you. Those who push the buttons and make decisions, hats off to them They have to get hammeredby nonsense and crazy people who disagree and enter bizzaro world…ala Cindy Sheehan and her purple hair, weed smokin, bead wearin, hippie wanna be, tamboreen playing crazies. I feel like irritating some liberals before I go:

Bold:Sean Hannity Bill Oreilly Fox News Donald Rumsfeld George W. Bush Dick Cheney Haliburton War on Terror Condoleeza Rice Alberto Gonzales Stop Illegal Immigration

I figure the Libs hate even seeing these names let alone having to deal with their issues.

By Michelle

March 22, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

“Michelle…you are still and idiot. Snowball effect as you say is not so. The WTC terror attack was caused by what? Nothing except some idiot terrorists. Iraq was the result of Bush continuing where Clinton left off. Saying what a threat Sddam was and getting the terrorists he hid out as well. Bottom line is Bush will run the country for 2 more years, buy a box of tiisue to wipe the tears and a blind fold so you don’t see things you don’t like. MAybe you can subpeona me for my opionion like the idiot dems are doing. Did they subpeona Clinton for firing 96 people….NO! There was no ploitical usage like the Dems want…create a controversy to help get eleceted.”

I have no idea what you’re talking about, due to what appears to be spelling errors, or maybe you just never finished grade school. I don’t recall using the term “Snowball effect” unless I was linking to another post. It’s obvious you hate all liberals and would support any idiotic war that the United States got involved in so I won’t waste my time arguing with you.

By Dissenter

March 22, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I hope you are still out there…

but I talked to my dear friend who is stationed in Afghanistan about that exact same thing just a couple weeks ago - I thought i had some kind of drunken epiphany (because I had a few too many glasses of wine when I thought of this), and wanted to try out my theory, but alas, I wasn’t the first to think of it - I asked him why couldn’t we just bring in all the troops and defend our own borders…after all, that would solve the immigration problem, and other things….with all the national security measures we have in place, I think we’d be alot better off.

But, then my friend told me that Clinton did that and sold off our excess ammo, etc. and now several smaller countries have brand new armies with our sold off equipment.

So, I don’t know what to believe about that, but it seems to me like if we brought all our troops home and like you said defend our borders with every piece of military hardware we have and not sell any of it off, then hey - seems like a plan to me — but like I said, I’m no military genius.

I also agree with you about how we do not need to run to the aid of everyone on this planet. Situations like in Darfur…yes, horrible genocide, militias with machetes….I think we could take them….Somalia? Yes, again, genocide, we go in, fix the problem, get out…done. It was a fight with WINABLE goals. Fixing an ideology with guns….trying to thwart an enemy with no borders? No….can’t be done. Silly to even think so.

I heard a Congressman on NPR the other day say something that I thought was profound…didn’t necessarily agree with him, but he kind of summed up something….(don’t remember who it was), but he said, “The Iraqi people have chosen a civil war instead of democracy.” Which, if I were a neo-con I could get my head around that, sure, why not. But since I’m not, and I won’t elaborate too much here, in my opinion, we shouldn’t have been there to begin with, but in his mind, and knowing what he believes, yes, I think he’s right.

The point is…the Iraqis don’t want us there to begin with, and now they are falling apart and we are caught in the middle. Because Bush is so incompetent and was so hell bent on going to war in the first place…he didn’t think about the volatile nature of the region and what would happen WITHOUT Saddam Hussein. He ignored every expert that pleaded and begged him not to do this. Yes, Saddam Hussein was an vicious and cruel son of a B*, but look what we have now…it’s only 100 times worse - and by God, if I could, with my limited knowledge of all things military, call that from the beginning, then somebody in Washington who gets paid the big bucks should have known it too! Seriously, I remember about 4 1/2 years ago when the storms were a brewing, having a conversation with my dad, who is a genius, who said, that without Saddam Hussein, Iraq, and the entire region will erupt in a civil war.

But, hey, like I said, I’m no military genius!

See, we are not that much diffent, you and I, Jeff, I’m glad you feel that all humans deserve to feel safe and fed, because I actually know some idiots around me who don’t give a flying flip about anyone but themselves. I know this is crazy idealistic, but until the world leaders start caring for humanity, and less on power and control (including our own government), we will have wars….and yes, in the meantime, I think it would be a good idea to hunker down! Because not only do I love living in this country, but another important fact is that GEOGRAPHICALLY, we are the safest. No foreign army can get to us and sustain itself. Sure a few terrorist can take us out 3000 at a time, but this is a big place with lots of new security measures!

By Dissenter

March 22, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Joe, I wanted to let you know that you succeeded in making this liberal irritated…well, actually I got kind of nauseous seeing all that at once in bold…that was just plain mean….if you had put Ann Coulter in there, I feel, yes, I would have vomited. I need to go to the restroom now!

By Jeff

March 23, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

Dissenter,

Ya know, you had me agreeing with much of what you were saying, UNTIL ya had to open your mouth about Bush being incompetent.

Anyways, check out Tom Tancredo (R-CO). He’s in the race for the Republican nomination, and since he appears to be as close to the Thomas Thorn ideal as we’re gonna get, I’m completely behind him. (If he doesn’t get it though, I’ll probbaly HAVE to go Republican anyway, simply because I ABSOLUTELY have ZERO trust in ANY Democrat that I’ve seen so far.)

By Dissenter

March 23, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I will definitely take your advise and read that book you suggested and I will definitely check out Mr. Tancredo.

You just made me smile. I’m sorry, but I just feel like Bush is incompetent. I know you don’t agree, but I just can’t help it. I really hope that Karl Rove goes to jail. He is really the problem. He thinks he is above the law…him and Cheney. I think that Bush is actually just a puppet for those two. Do you know how many subpoenas Clinton’s administration was served? I don’t know the exact number, but I remember they were getting served subpoenas all the time, do you know how many the Bush administration has been served? Zero. Like I said, they always scream “no, we can’t… all in the name of national security” and to be honest their shenanigans have caused more damage to our security than anything.

I’m not Democrat or Republican…just a big liberal, but I have a brain that I use on a regular basis. I actually have liked several Republican candidates, I’m a really big moderate in politics, but socially, I’m a big liberal. For example, I believe in the death penalty. I’ve had two friends in my life who were brutally murdered and I think the people who did it (in both cases, they found out who did it and the scum bags are in prison) need to be burned at the stake (like I mentioned the other day).

Another example of how I can think for myself is that I am really disgusted with John Edwards. I liked him until yesterday. I mean, come on, if your wife has terminal cancer, it’s time to go home! Personally, I know it is their decision and they are certainly entitled to that, but I don’t care to hear the media’s drama about it. It’s just unnatural and anyone who puts politics and their ego in front of the health of his family, well, let’s just say that says something about their character.

So, like I said, you and I, aren’t that different, we just have different opinions about the world, but that’s okay.

See, I like people like you, and I hope I have given you a new found sense of us freaky liberals. I think that blogs like this usually bring such hate, like what has been written earlier, but if you can explain your beliefs and leave name calling on the playground, you can usually have a pretty good debate and discussion.

I don’t claim to know everything like so many here claim to. Like I said, I’m no military genius, I’ve never held a gun….scares me to death to even think about it. It’s just not who I am.

I actually like to come to this blog because I always invariably learn something. Not from the hate mongers, but I usually read something that sparks my interest and I’ll read about it or look it up.

I have several friends who were once Republican, but have “switched” because of the way neo-cons have trashed the Constitution. I don’t believe that you can sit there and call people morons and idiots because you disagree with something. The Constitution assures dissent (which is why I chose my name this time) and our Founding Fathers were the biggest dissenters in our history!

I got over my nausea from Joe’s post from yesterday. That was really mean of him to do that, you know.

Later!

By Jeff

March 23, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Dissenter:

I’ve toyed with going in several times, but the new gf (who will be getting upgraded soon) is dead set against it, so it more than likely will never happen. (BTW: I was going to be either a Marine grunt or Air Force officer, depending on when you talked to me! Kinda interesting though, because I spent time living in Albany - home of the Marine Logistics Base, which serves this entire half of the country, including doing a lot of the pre-shipping for things heading towards Iraq/ Afghanistan - and now live in Warner Robins, home of one of the Air Force’s largest non-testbed bases)

Anyways, here’s my plan:

USAF, USN, and US CG get east-west border control. I believe we have 6 carrier battle groups right now. That’s 3 per side. Station one about 100 miles off of Jekyll, another about 100 miles off of the mouth of the Potomac, and the third about 100 miles off Cape Cod. My knowledge of Western US coastal cities is far less, but Seattle, San Fransisco, and Los Angeles seem to be decent areas. Use AF/ CG units to plug any holes.

North/ South: Marines on the southern border, Army on the northern. (Yes, I am somewhat biased towards the Marines, and since the Southern border needs to tightened DRASTICALLY, that I why I put the Marines there.) Supplemented by USAF AWACS planes for any air based targets.

Ya know what the REALLY wild part of all that is though? We could actually KEEP our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan there, pull ALL others back as defined, and STILL be able to project to a small conflict wherever needed! The problem is NOT troop numbers… it is that we have them still deployed to Cold War bases. (Korea, Germany, NATO, Japan, etc)

By Great Patriot

March 24, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

I bought a yellow Support the Troops ribbon for my truck and put it on the back.

That makes me a great American.

Heck, I’m doing more than most.