Duluth.Talk

By Curious George

June 20, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this

Dear Ms. Dakar: If you are really a capitalist as you say, then you should understand one simple principle — you are worth whatever someone is willing to pay you. This is usually determined by, among other things, how large the pool of people is who can perform your job. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are qualified to be firefighters, but only a few who can successfully run a huge corporation like Home Depot.

By CEOs pay =Theft

June 20, 2006 07:50 AM | Link to this

Excellent post!

It is an outrage that a fire fighter/EMT only makes in the low 30s but a CEO can make 54 million a year. Give me a break!

My pay sucks compared to my CEO…I am mad as ** and I am not going to take it anymore.

By deegee

June 20, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this

CEO compensation is grossly obscene. They don’t even have to do a good job, the company will pay them millions to leave after they have done their damage. Most of the people that are running these big companies are money men that have no vision and wouldn’t know a good invention if it came up and bit them on their Armani shorts. Maybe if shareholders would get together and demand change from the boards of directors we might see something change.

Firefighters are worth way more than company executives. BTW, many thanks to the DeKalb County firefighters that stopped to help a pregnant lady move her stalled car in Dunwoody last Friday. You fellas are the best!

By charlie

June 20, 2006 08:04 AM | Link to this

The basic question is….”how much is your life worth?” Because these are the guys that will put their lives on the line to save yours. The local CEO’s and government executives are way overpaid for what they do. They sit in their a/c offices and drink coffe and schmooze the locals. Meanwhile the underpaid firefighters, and police, ar outside in the 90+ heat saving lives and putting their lives at risk for a lousy $30+k a year. I hope that people like Shirley Franklin really need the firefighters some day and maybe then they’ll realize how much they are worth.
Welcome to the south….home of the cheapest governments in the U.S. Don’t move here cause you won’t get paid what you’re worth!

By Eddie P

June 20, 2006 08:04 AM | Link to this

George, Buddy you are brainwashed if you REALLY believe that your CEOs deserves to be paid 400 times more than you. Are you really that worthless? A CEO is a man and not a god.

Firefighters are a special breed (they run to fire and emergency situations; while most of us run the other way) and they have to have brains, brawn, and a strong commitment to their fellow human beings.

Dakar is right, firefighters and emergency personnel do deserve more. A firefighter risks his life for $31,000 a year to run to a fire; but to run Home Depot you get 54 MILLION a year. Come on is Nardelli walking on water?

Being a capitalist does not mean that you have to be a blind fool. The gap between middle class pay checks and CEO pay checks is way TOO big.

By JC

June 20, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

Come, don’t hate. I make 15K a year I live cobfartably and won’t get in debt that I can pay. If you think it’s that bad go back to school, earn your masters, PHD’s whatever you need to destroy that disparity. Don’t blame the guy because he makes more money than you. More money doesn’t indicate that you will be happy or successful. I give one you a CEO job for a month and you see what happens “the company will go bankrupt in the first few days.” And sister why is everything got to be about race. After all you are the columnist. Analyze don’t …………..

By just passing through

June 20, 2006 08:10 AM | Link to this

the war is on the middle class (which is, truthfully, what most Americans are shooting for)and most Americans are ignoring the assault on their lives and well being.

CEO pay is outrageous especially when these same obscenely wealthy individuals are telling Americans that there are jobs they won’t do that’s why they have to undermine the stability of the middleclass by bringing in what amounts to slave labor in the form of illegal aliens. We don’t hold the very wealthy or powerful accountable (those Enron boys notwithstanding). It’s time for middle class Americans to respond to this class war like the violent overthrow of our way of life that it is.

I’m MAD as HE11 and I’m not gonna take it ANYMORE!!!!!

By Wilson

June 20, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this

I think my check is coming up a little short. Where are the Benjamin’s?

By Martha

June 20, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

JC, you live on 15K a year. You must sleep in your car and eat ramen noodles.

You say that if you do not like your pay go back to school and get a masters or Ph.D. degrees, but those degrees as nice as they are do not guarantee a decent wage. Just ask any professor or school teacher who is likely have an advanced degree if these credentials have translated into the big bucks. By the way most CEOs only have a four year college degree.

By curious George

June 20, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

If you’re mad as hell, go find another job. That’s the beauty of living in a free society. By the way, do you begrudge Barbra Streisand the millions she makes? Do you refuse to buy her CD’s or pay $750 to see her in concert because she’s “overpaid?” Do you refuse to watch the Braves because Chipper and Andruw make millions? In truth, entertainers and athletes are not overpaid, simply because someone is willing to pay them that much.

By Jed

June 20, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this

If CEO and other executives’ pay is too high, the board members, and ultimately the stockholders, are to blame.

The reason a CEO makes more than a firefighter is for the simple reason that there are a lot of folks willing and able to become firefighters (which as far as I know requires a high school education and further specialized training). Those who aspire to lead companies must go through four years of an undergraduate program, and then two or three years more for an MBA. Many have degrees beyond that, plus years of management experience.

I work for Delta, and I have seen what incompetent, overpaid management can do to a company. However, I don’t necessarily blame the CEOs as much as I blame board members and ultimately the true owners of the companies—the shareholders.

By Dennis

June 20, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

“I am a Capitalist”, not hardly. You and I know that you have no bonifides to justify that claim. Writing “I am a Capitalist” is just an effort to make your “but” mean something. However, your “but” doesn’t mean what you intended. It speaks only about you.

Look into yourself. Why aren’t you an executive? Is it because of sex? Race? Lack of recognization? Lack of effort? Lack of ability? Failure of the man to properly reward? Failure of the man to recognize your value? Failure of the man ….?

You are wrong about the opportunities available for “women, blacks, Latinos, Asian-Americans, and others”. There are tons of opportunities for everyone. That is one of the reasons so many people are coming to the U.S.

What are the tax contributions of one of these $117,739 every two weeks [$3 million annually CEO’s? *Property taxes on personal and business property. *Sales taxes on the portion of his $3 million annual pay that he spends. *Income taxes. *Social Security taxes, ect. His Social Security taxes are going to be more than the median income of two Gwinnett households. If he spends just half of that $3 million salary, then at 6% sales tax, he has contributed just in sales taxes the median income of two additional households in Gwinnett County again.

You tell me, how much is he worth?

By deegee

June 20, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

Hello George, Executive compensation is set by the company’s board of directors who are typically a group of people that are CEO’s of other companies. There isn’t much incentive on their part to lower the wage scale. We disparage other countries like Mexico that pay low wages to their employees while the business owners earn millions. One of the reasons that we in the US have a higher standard of living is the availability of easy credit. There is no justification for the ridiculously high level of executive compensation in this country. There are plenty of educated dummies out there that could do their job.

If an entertainer gives lousy performances they generally don’t get paid millions to keep on going.

By just passing through

June 20, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Dennis — that CEO only pays Social Security on about the $50,000 he earns… he pays no social security tax at all!! on the rest of his income. He takes advantage of every loophole our corrupt government puts in place to avoid paying taxes at every possible turn. Very few “wealthy” Americans take seriously Teddy Roosvelt’s statements which implore them to be responsible with the millions made possible for them on the backs of our society. If you’re not mad about it, you should be. the goal of a conservative government is not to eliminate government, but to govern responsibly, to tax fairly and provide services for the common good.

By FedUp

June 20, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

I have to admit I just don’t understand what a person could possible do to earn 34 million a year. Great that you run a company that provides jobs to thousands of workers, but if you took a reasonable salary, just imagine the pay raise the rest of your employees would get!! I agree that some deserve a higher salary than others, but we have gone way beyond that. When a baseball player signs a contract for 100 million and whines about not having enough money I see red. You are playing a kid’s game and being paid more in a year than I will make in a lifetime. And, I am educated, have a relatively high paying job. I think our country has its priorities upside down. Police, firefighters, teachers, the people who truly contribute to society are simply not valued as they should be. We treat actors and sports figures as some sort of royalty when they are nothing other than people who can act and play sports. Not really too valuable in my book. The only way I see this ever changing is for the “common” people to say, that is enough. I refuse to spend $750 in a concert ticket. Supply and demand people, they get the salaries because we are willing to pay them.

By E. Lewis

June 20, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

As long as firefighters, teachers, the military and other public servants get paid by the taxpayer who like to “pay” lips service to these professions rather than to pay more in taxes to fund their salaries, they will always paid less.

That’s just the way it is.

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

I graduated from an Ivy League university a couple years ago with a liberal arts degree. I started working in publishing (60+ hours a week) in NYC for $24K a year. I now work for an ad agency in Atlanta (80+ hours a week) and make $29K annually. A $31K starting salary for someone with little or no higher education in one of the nation’s most affordable cities sounds pretty fair to me…

By Mr. Drysdale

June 20, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Do some athletes deserve to make $15 or $20 million a year?

Do some actors deserve to make $10 million per movie?

Do some musical “artists” deserve to make millions of dollars per year?

I find it very interesting that Ms. Dakar doesn’t seem to begrudge these people their obscenely high salaries.

By Dennis

June 20, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

The maximum Social Security obligation of each individual is just under $96,000. Every one pays a percentage of his salary until that maximum is reached.

By Harvey

June 20, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

Hey Jeff, you think it is fair that the fireman guy who will save your butt makes a puny salary a little bit more than you are making, because he has ONLY a high school degree. But it is okay that your big time ad agency boss takes all of profit and pays you peanuts for your Ivy League sheep skin. Go figure.

By Something’s wrong

June 20, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

SOMETHING IS WRONG WHEN IT WOULD TAKE OVER ONE THOUSAND YEARS FOR A FIREMAN TO EARN WHAT ONE EXECUTIVE EARNS IN ONE YEAR!

By fedup

June 20, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

I thought I was also living in the Atlanta area….I think if I was making 31K a year I would be in trouble. I don’t live beyond my means, but I make 3 times that much and worry about paying bills, college….etc.

By Shameful

June 20, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

George? Are you serious? There are hundreds of thousands of people who are qualified to be firefighters, but only a few who can successfully run a huge corporation like Home Depot. Aren’t these CEO’s all taking the same classes in college to get that management degree? So how can you say very few can run a Home Depot? If thousands are graduating from management programs every year with 3.0’s and 4.0’s, then that means there are thousands to run companies, just as there are thousands to become a firefighter as you imply. I beg to differ with your opinion. I would believe there are more management graduates waiting for the high life than there are people willing to sacrifice their life for a measly $31K and work holidays and weekends to boot!!!!

By theresa

June 20, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

You got it right Something’s wrong. Maybe the CEO and the firefighter could switch jobs for a month. Maybe should do the same with actors, sports figures. Let them see what is like to really earn your living.

By just passing through

June 20, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

Dennis — pardon the typo in the social security numbers… he still reaches that maxium in less than 2 weeks of working… and then pays nothing most Americans never reach that number. That doesn’t sound fair to me…but that’s the war on the middle class. (btw, not a race war, a class war — the middle class cuts into the corporate profits too much what with expecting benefits, fair wages, etc., the wealthy want to get rid of as many as possible — without diminishing the taxes paid by them— the middle class actually pays the taxes they owe)

By Average White Female

June 20, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

You are absolutely correct if your assessment of white men in this country who believe they are privilged above all others. One only has to look at the collapse and scandals of corporations since Sarbanes Oxley to see it was RICH WHITE MEN who took these companies to the brink of destruction, taking your “average” workers pensions and jobs with them!!!! These CEO’s are just average men who happened to get a lucky break. Why else do they get paid millions for ruining companies? If these CEO’s are so competent, why do corporations pay them millions to leave? When most people do a lousy job, they get fired and shown the door. Yet, these CEO idiots get paid millions when asked to resign. What is wrong with this picture?

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

“Hey Jeff, you think it is fair that the fireman guy who will save your butt makes a puny salary a little bit more than you are making, because he has ONLY a high school degree.”

Yes. It’s about supply and demand: Pretty much anyone in good shape and of moderate intelligence can become a fireman.

“But it is okay that your big time ad agency boss takes all of profit and pays you peanuts for your Ivy League sheep skin. Go figure.”

My “big time” boss started working for peanuts, too.

By nikki

June 20, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Firemen were the heros of 9/11. Firemen are heros everyday. They risk life and limb and most of the time it is due to mistakes made by people.

Think how much they are worth when you have to be cut out of your car or a loved one is suffering a heart attack and they arrive.

CEOs come and go. A fireman is priceless.

By Dan

June 20, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

Everytime I hear this argument about athletes or CEOs making too much money compared to regular folks, I feel that a BIG point is being missed. The pay difference is not so much based on the “value” of the service being performed — it has to do with basic economics. Within our population, there are far, far, far more people who can qualify as a teacher or a fire-fighter or a cop and very, very, very few with the skills necessary to be a pro athlete or CEO of a major company. People are being paid based on their replacement value. Let’s say you are the superintendent of a school district and a teacher quits. You’ll have a replacement tomorrow. If a CEO resigns, it’s a lot harder to replace.

Don’t get caught up in the salary differences thinking that a higher value is being placed on someone’s work. That’s the wrong take.

I’ll go a bit further. Why is it that people always scoff at the salaries of pro athletes, but never seem to be concerned that Tom Cruise or Will Smith makes $20 million per film? I NEVER hear people complain about movie stars. You know why? Because people view sports as things that we ALL can do. How can someone get paid $XX million for something I watch my kid do in the backyard. But for some reason people place a higher value on acting.

Your argument has some merit, but I think you are missing the point on the whole.

By Average White Female

June 20, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Jeff, not necessarily so that your boss started working for peanuts. Those privileged white kids all go to the best ivy league colleges that in turn gets them the six figure entry level jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Just look at Chelsea Clinton. Rich white parents sent their rich white kid to a privilged college and her first job out of college paid six figures. The truth is: most kids who graduate from your simple college down the road will be lucky enough to earn 60-70K annually at the peaks of their careers! I know for a fact! My father had a masters in finance and was only managing to eek out a whopping $52K a year when he finally retired 10 years ago. Cronyism Jeff. It’s a cycle..the middle class will always slave away for the rich, privilege class. Money begets money.

By just passing through

June 20, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

My last comment (at least for a while)— if this makes you angry, like it makes me angry, do something. VOTE. As long as Americans are willing to maintain the status quo and do nothing but complain, nothing will change. Send a message to the power structure — vote on your ballots and vote with your wallets. Educate yourself on the practices of companies and choose to patronize companies who do business in a responsible manner. Educated yourself on the positions your congressional reps take and have taken and vote ‘em out if you disagree. Don’t vote for the little “r” or “d” by their name — vote their record and force change.

By Harvey

June 20, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Poor Jeff, he has an Ivy League degree and little else.

I bet if you ever have chest pains or your house is on fire you would find a new respect for that high school educated dude of average intelligence, who is in good shape; who comes to your rescue.

By Buddy

June 20, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Here is the thing that gets me. You say their salaries are approved by board members. Well, the board members are all part of the same club. They all serve on other boards and it’s like I scratch your back, and you scratch mine. In other words, I’ll approve your ridiculous over inflated salary if you’ll approve mine. I never saw an average Joe sit on a board of any company. Every Board of Directors in this country consists of wealthy people who have power and position. So they make the rules for the rest of the Average Joe’s, including layoffs so they can pocket multimillion dollar bonuses at the end of the year. Ain’t a CEO in this country worth a cent more than a man willing to give his life such as a firefighter or policeman.

By Yogi

June 20, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

I find it very interesting how people attempt to rationalize their own failures, and other people’s successes.

Whiners like “Average White Female” would have us believe that all a white guy has to do is fall out of bed every morning, and the rest of the day simply takes care of itself.

Whether she believes it or not, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people who have material wealth worked EXTREMELY hard to get it.

Now, you can certainly argue that no CEO deserves a $400 million retirement package … just as I can argue that Shaq doesn’t deserve $20 million a year to drag his fat a$$ up and down the basketball court.

However, in a capitalist society, the law of supply and demand plays a significant role in determining salaries, which is why some people get the big bucks, and most people don’t.

Personally, I agree that public servants such as firefighters AND police officers deserve to be much better paid than they are. If you’ve ever seen an episode of “Cops”, you know that our policemen (and women) spend a great deal of their time dealing with the scum of the earth. To be honest, I’m not sure that any salary would be enough for me to put up with that kind of crap on a daily basis.

Of course, higher salaries would mean higher taxes, and how many people would complain if they had to pay more taxes?

By SW

June 20, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

I was waiting for it…”well-connected white guys”. That must be it. The reason you’re not bringing in millions of dollars a year is because you’re not a “well connected white guy”. Did you ever stop to think it’s because these CEO’s have better educations and probably aren’t wasting their days writing blogs for the AJC? And no, you’re not a capitalist, as you claim, if you’re going off saying you believe in people being able to earn, but you want someone else to give a chance to the minorities. Capitalism is an economic theory that maintains a survival of the fittest mentality; and the fittest are those who are running and acting as these CEO’s. Not to mention many of Atlanta’s CEO’s are CEO’s of small, and very profitable businesses that they created themselves, not major corporations. Lastly, another 8th grade economics lesson for you…the paychecks of the CEO’s is a simple function of supply and demand. The type of people who can run a corporation are of limited supply and therfore demand a much higher wage and vice versa.

By Buddy

June 20, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

Yogi, dude, most people with a job work extremely hard for their pay. CEO’s don’t work any harder than anybody else. You must be a CEO because only youse folks think you deserve the money and work hard for it. BS. I’d like to arrive to work when I “feel” like it and take that Friday afternoon golf trip with the other CEO’s. My arrival time is 8:00 and if I arrive at 8:05, it’s made note of. That ain’t so for the CEO’s. Gimme a break. CEO’s got it easy.

By Larry

June 20, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

To JC: What the h### is “cobfartably”?

By Dan

June 20, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

Average White, even if we accept your hypothesis as true. The number of people it impacts is irrelevant. People like that are the top 1% and what they do and make has no significant impact on the rest of us. I used to work for a big comp, about 100,000 employees, about half of which were union. One year the CEO recieved a $10 million bonus. Some folks thought maybe that should be spread of the “working people” (alhtough very few of them work 18 hour days like the ceo) of course that would come to $100 a piece. Quite frankly with union wages as they are, that sum would be considered an insult and probably inspire lower productivity than higher as a bonus is supposed to. There is no question the money provides a better return when given to an individual who can manage a business so that it continues to thrive and keep a 100,000 people employed (not to mention millions of customers with product) than if it had been doled out $100 a pop to each employee. Oh and by the way in mos cases the ceo could do the job of most employees given a week or two of training the reverse is clearly not true. Hey the people complaing about that $10M bonus thought they would get $1000

By SW

June 20, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Buddy, who do you think elects the Board of Directors?….The shareholders genius. The true equity owners of the company. And as an equity investor who would like to see a return on his capital, I sure don’t want some average Joe sitting on the board making the macro decisions…I’m pretty sure anyone with any economic sense whatsoever would feel the same way.

By Temp

June 20, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

“When will more women, blacks, Latinos, Asian-Americans, and others have an opportunity to lead American companies?”

They will have the opportunity when they start companies that are successful and make money. They will have the opportunity when women don’t put their careers on hold to have kids. They will have the opportunity when black kids aren’t more likely to commit a crime than graduate from college.

This country lets you do anything you want if you are smart enough to seize the opportunity and work hard. Will everyone become a fabulously wealthy CEO? Of course not, but everyone does have the opportunity to have a great life.

My parents came to this country in the 60’s with $300 in their pocket and retired as millionaires. So quit your whining, and get out there and work.

By real life paramedic/firefighter

June 20, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Hey people I am a Paramedic/firefighter and we that perform a duty to everyday citizens and risk our lives every day due to peoples mistakes really dont make what we should due to the ignorance of society as a whole. People tend to forget us until their life or family members life is on the line and then we are worth a million bucks other than that we are totally forgotten. By the way it takes a college education to become a paramedic/firefighter and years of hard training to become a competent in both. If you have never been either you don’t know what kind hell we go through daily on and off duty. By the way money is never why the people in the brotherhood began their career in first place.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Okay, I really have to debunk the “overwhelming majority of wealthy people worked extremely hard for it” theory.

Most studies show that the class a person is born into is the class they stay in.

Very little social class movement really occurs. I know you’ll get your feel good ghetto/trailer park to filthy rich entertainer stories, but taken over the entire population it makes up less than one percent - they are the exception.

There is about 5 percent move across the board and this is mostly up or down one class.

Most wealthy people do have distinct advantages that allow them to become more successful. One of the most obvious is access to capital to invest in new business ventures/better schooling etc. Most wealth is accumulated and passed down through generations.

If you want to look at “connections” look no further than the children of the wealthy? Paris and Nicole - who would care about them if they were two dumb sluts from Albany, Georgia? Michael Douglas father was movie star (Kirk) so now he is, same with kiefer Sutherland, and Gwyenth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie, etc. etc.

A few quick real world examples:

When I was early twenties I worked at stock brokers office, cold called all day, everyday - another young kid there, whose dad was very well off, made some calls for his son, to his wealthy friends and asked them to trade abit through his son. Guess which broker was making 400,000 a year (without working extremely hard.)

Two other acquaintances I know do who are wealthy both inherited business from grandfathers/fathers who successfully built these companies first. Now, I’m not saying they don’t work hard, bu they had established, money making businees turned over to them, and I don’t begrudge them - but they didn’t overcome huge obstacles to make it.

I can go on and on. In fact when I make a mental list of the ten wealthiest people I personally know I come up with a 50/50 split of worked hard, overcame obstacles versus inherited and was connected.

By Living the life

June 20, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I have had just about enough of your Ivey League attitude. All of these people with High School educations that you think are qualified to become firefighters wouldn’t last 5 minutes at the first fire or accident scene where someone dies.
Yes, it only takes a High School diploma to qualify to become a firefighter, but you also have to have guts, dedication and determination. These things are what most of those high school educated people you refer to lack. Most of the firefighters in Gwinnett county hold associates degrees and the majority do actually have bachlor’s degrees. Firefighters are dedicated to their jobs, they have to be. They put their lives on the line for 24 hours every third day. They are away from their families for 24 hours every third day and most have to work second jobs to make ends meet. The most important thing is that they LOVE their job.
Not just anyone can be a firefighter, it is something mental that these guys and gals have that puts them in a class of their own. The firefighters in Gwinnett county have to be crosstrained as EMT’s which is another 6 months to a year of class room training and then those that choose to become Paramedics must attend another 18-24 months of classes.

Your comment about supply and demand: “Pretty much anyone in good shape and of moderate intelligence can become a fireman.” I can say without a doubt is the stupidest thing ever said. I would put the guys and gals in the GCFD up against your Ivy League education anyday.
But just remember, even with your Ivy League attitude, if you are ever in need of their assistance, they will run in while everyone else is running away.

By Joe Camp

June 20, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

1st of all, your worth…is not defined in the $ figure listed on your paycheck. If you CHOOSE to become a fire fighter as opposed to earning an MBA, then YOU have made a decision as to what you will earn. However, your self-worth and “value to society” are intangible and FAR MORE VALUABLE than $ can buy.

Imagine, if you will, a woman or man who earns enough to supply his family with their NEEDS while living in a nice community and having plentiful time to spend with his children…what is that worth? How much more do you need? Just how selfish and hedonistic are you people? Ms. Dakar is an obvious worshipper of $…don’t YOU fall into that trap!.

Secondly, What in the heck is INCOME EQUALITY??. Dear God!! I have read The Manifesto. Frankly, it has been PROVEN that socialism/communism is UNSUSTAINABLE. Please read your history on the rise/fall of the Soviet Union. Then, go read 1984 by George Orwell.

Thirdly, How many of you have the knowledge and leadership skills to direct a fortune 100 company? How many of you have the skills to motivate 50,000 or more employees to all row in synch to move the ship? ** There are simply not that many people who can pull it off, which leads me to my next point…

*Fourthly, why are y’all not b*** about pro athletes and entertainers for making their huge $$? The answer: THERE ARE FEW PEOPLE EQUIPPED TO DO WHAT THEY DO. IF EVERYONE COULD DO IT, THEN THE “MARKET” WOULD BE SATURATED, WHICH WOULD BRING $$ DOWN.” Just how much money did Mike Tyson make over his career, for beating people up?

AGAIN, do NOT rate your self-worth with your pay check. If you want more, go ask your boss for a raise or go develop a rare skill. Geez.

By Unbelivable

June 20, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Why don’t some of you who look down upon our firefighters attend one of the 16-week firefighter schools and see how far you make it. Our firefighters - for the most part - are not that replaceable. It’s a special breed of person that can run into a burning building to save your butt. Let’s see a CEO TRY to save anything except themselves and their checkbook given the same situation. How many of you have had to look at burnt up, cut up, shot up, chopped up men, women, and children for a mere $30K a year? I think not many. These guys put their lives on the line daily..not just in fires but when they are standing on the interstate cutting someone’s loved one from a mangled car…they aren’t immune to being run over either. They injure backs, necks, shoulder, knees, etc for YOUR property. Tell me how you can think these guys - and girls - aren’t worth so much more than a paper pushing CEO…be reminded that the CEO is claiming the big bucks while their subordinates are doing the work. It’s not just firefighters that are underpaid…look at law enforcement and teachers too. Give me a break - a CEO is worth 1,000+ years more pay than a public servant. But yeah, go to Home Depot and elsewhere, pay their prices to pad their pockets then scream and moan when asked to pay taxes to pay for the public servant who is willing to lay down his life for yours! The next time you hear a siren or see the flashing lights realize that these individuals are their to keep you safe and possibly save your life instead of being home when birthday presents and Christmas presents are opened. Not because they are to dumb to get any other sort of job, it’s because they are a special caring breed of person that goes above and beyond the call of duty at a moments notice for strangers. They don’t expect thanks, but I can tell you from being around them, they appreciate it MORE than you would ever know.

By Harvey

June 20, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

SW, are you a personal friend of Nardelli?

Even most high income people don’t make 117K a year; but it is okay because of the ‘laws of supply and demand’ for some lucky few to earn that much in two weeks.

It is just crazy that most of these comments supporting the status quo are coming from people who these corporate types wouldn’t give the time of day to. But you all mightily defend their right to rob us.

By Temp

June 20, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Harvey, who is robbing you? Does anyone point a gun at you and force you to shop at Home Depot? If you don’t want to contribute money to the CEO, don’t shop there, don’t buy their stock. Start a competitor for Home Depot.

I never shop at Sam’s Club because I think Walmart uses some despicable business practices. However, Costco is widely known as being one of the best places to work for, pretty much the anti-Walmart, so I shop there and support them whenever I can.

Put your money where your mouth is and then you’ll see change. Until then you are just posturing.

By Buddy

June 20, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

great real world example B.S. Just like Chelsea Clinton…was she REALLY the most qualified candidate to get that six figure job fresh out of college or was she just well-connected? These wealthy white kids don’t have to work hard for their position in society..they just drop their daddy’s name and they’re in. Come on…look at the Trump children. Best schools, best connections. Will they EVER have to prove themselves to anyone? Of course not..some company would hire them just to say they have a TRUMP on their payroll!

By Dan

June 20, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

BS actually the movement is about reverse of what you say only about 5% DONT move. As people progress through their careers the usually move up the ladder. If you make 80K you are in the top 10%. If all the CEOS in the country cut their pay in half and doled it out on a pro rata basis it would not change your life an iota.
Oh and no one should take this as a slam against firefighters etc. My father was and brother is a policeman I am well aware of the sacrifices and honor invovled.

By Temp

June 20, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

No one is robbing me; the corporate elites are robbing all of us.

Temp, you are getting mugged and defending your muggers right to steal from you. Da..

We (middle class and working class folk) have so bought into the power elites games, that even though we are only designed to be pawns in their games; we still are tightly bound to those games and rules that are made only for those on top.

When was the last time YOU had an opportunity to earn 117K every two weeks?

Some people deserve to earn more than others; but CEOs earn 400X more on average than their workers—give me a break!

By LtDan

June 20, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

As a Fireman I would like to say that I am underpaid. Actually I am making a good living doing a job that I love. Public servants will NEVER make what the private sector makes because the taxpayer pays our salaries. Everyone that demands equal pay for public servants will really scream when their taxes double to pay for it. No on forces one to take a job as a Fireman, we knew getting into it that we would not get rich.

By Jeff

June 20, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

“Jeff, not necessarily so that your boss started working for peanuts. Those privileged white kids all go to the best ivy league colleges that in turn gets them the six figure entry level jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Just look at Chelsea Clinton.”

This is a myth. There are no six-figure entry-level jobs, even for “privileged white kids.” The best paid new graduates (undergrad) work for NYC i-banks like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. They make about $65K a year. (Keep in mind they live in the most expensive city in the country and work 100+ hours a week). Recently, their bonuses have averaged $40-$60K but are based purely on their performance and the caprice of the market.

In the case of Chelsea Clinton, she has a master’s degree from Oxford and works for McKinsey, the most prestigious management consulting firm in the world. If she started there straight out of Stanford, she wouldn’t have immediately been making six figures (more like $60K).

By Temp

June 20, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Buddy, I don’t think anyone denies that nepotism and favoritism exist and help people. But isn’t it the American dream to be able to become wealthy and provide a better life for your children?

Donald Trump’s father started him off with money, but Trump used his drive and ambition to make himself famous and richer.

Where did Paris Hilton get her money? Her parents built a hotel empire.

At some point, someone had to earn that money, it didn’t just fall out of the sky. Are you telling us that if your parents were wealthy you would expect them to shove you out on your own with nothing? Of course not.

But the fact that other people are rich does nothing to prevent you from becoming rich.

By frank123

June 20, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Why point at CEO’s? Basketball plays and baseball players get millions a years guaranteed!! They all deserve the pay. Very very special skills (people skills, networking, business sense etc) to run a company or run the plays in a game setting. If you are want the pay, try out for the position whether it be the CEO, goalie, or first base! Don’t talk talk talk about it! If you have the skills you will get hired.
If you look at police and fire fighters, they get low starting pay, but what about the overtime? What about the great benefits (WC and retirement)? Teachers only work 2/3 of the year and they get so many 1/2 days and holidays. They start low because a lot of people want the benefits and most people can be trained do the work. I hear about firefighters who have building contracting jobs on the side since most of the time they just go to work to sit around and sleep. Teachers, firefighters and police have tenure and a union, and you can never fire them. CEO’s and ball players are fired/traded all the time.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Buddy, also Trumps Dad was a very well-to-do business man. Now, Donald is brilliant and he built that empire, but he had distinct advantages as well.

And Dan you are absolutely wrong! Please cite any research that shows 95% moving from one class to another - I bet you, you can’t. Please don’t throw ridiculous numbers without support.

Now, if you think going from making 35,000 to 80,000 is moving up a social class you are mistaken. And sure when I left college, my pay was low and it gets higher with experience and education - but it doesn’t jump me up a social class. A 100 grand a year is still middle class. But the point is what you are born into is where you stay.

I’m not talking about i used to make 6 bucks at Burger King, but now I make 12 an hour delivering furniture. This is a better job but not a social class movement.

By FENCE

June 20, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

By Jay

June 20, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

I think most people here are missing the big picture. I don’t think anyone would say that they don’t appreciate firefighters. Everyone understands that their job is difficult and dangerous and everyone respects and admires them for doing that job. Same with police and teachers. But, the point is that we live in America and in a free capitalistic society. We are free to choose our occupation. If we don’t like our job, we can go get another one. Or we can get more education to get a better paying job. There is no limit to how high you can go in this country if you are willing to work for it.
Firefighters make what they make because that is how much you and me decide to pay them. They are paid by our tax dollars. Yes, their salary is less than what it should be and that is an injustice, but are you willing to take a tax increase big enough to pay them what a CEO makes? Probably not. The class system in a country like ours is a bell curve. The majority of people are in the middle and the further you go from the middle, the less people there are. That will never change, because the jobs on the outer edges require more skill and/or education. You can work hard and sacrifice and do what it takes to work yourself up the ladder. That is why our system is so great.
Me, for example, I am working 8 to 5 every day to earn enough to live and going to law school at night for 3 hours. Then putting in study hours. It is hard work, but when I graduate I will get a good job. Then I will continue to work hard to work my way up.
Anyone in this country can do anything they want to do if they work hard enough. Some of us have an easier road to get there, due to our family/connections, but that opportunity is still there. If you are unhappy with your current situation, don’t get mad at the people who have what you want. Instead, do what it takes to go get it.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Temp, I don’t think anybody begrudges people who are born into an advantaged situation, but they don’t want to here the “all people who make it worked really hard” and “pull yourself up by your bootstraps?” from the Paris Hiltons (Silver Spoons) of the world, who have no idea what this really entails.

By nikki

June 20, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

@frank123 - not only do firefighters not get overtime, when they take off, they have to take 24 hours leave. A lot of the time, their leave is cancelled for one reason or the other. And benefits? Counties are cutting benefits to pieces these days. You need to read up on stuff before you make statements like this. Policeman are the same way. Their “overtime” usually ends up being straight time, or maybe comp time. Why am I wasting my time. You people are the same people who diss soldiers. You are ungrateful and don’t deserve these people protecting you.

By CEOs laugh @ you

June 20, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

if they think about anything you all are saying here, that is. Welcome to a capitalist world, folks. All you defenders of the system and all you opposed to the system, you’re just blowing smoke and maybe feeling a little better for it. Them that got power will keep it and them that don’t got power will keep on doing nothing about it.

By Martinez

June 20, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

I think now would be a great time for a Cultural Revolution!!!! Send the doctors, lawyers, and CEOs into the fields and let the farmers run the businesses and be the doctors!!!!

It worked well for China, right???

All you communists need to wake up. You chose to work in the field you are in, so accept the pay. If you wanted to be a CEO, you should have worked in Corporate America for 20 years putting in 12 hours a day. Everyone in 6th grade knows a CEO makes “a lot” and a fireman makes “a little”. If it matters that much to you, then why did you choose to be a fireman???

By frank123

June 20, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

Thanks Jay. Well reasoned and thought out statement.

By Buddy

June 20, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Preach it B.S. And BTW Jay, you may get a decent job after graduating law school but the chances of you EVER achieving the rank and profile that John F Kennedy Jr had as a lawyer because of his family name would be like you winning the lottery. The odds are highly against you. If you had the means to attend an ivy league law school, you would start out in THE top law firms of your choice. But given you must work your way through, you will more than likely start out with no more than $40K in a small mom/pop and owe a $100K debt for college tuition. Not that anyone is taking away from you what you’re doing to become a lawyer, but if you’re last name was Kennedy, Bush or Clinton, you certainly would arrive in style just by declaring “my name is….”

By McMillionaire?

June 20, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

food for thought: The increasing ease of becoming a millionaire became clear Tuesday, with the announcement that the ranks of world millionaires had swelled to 8.7 million last year — half a million more than the population of New York City.

Millionaires also invested more aggressively, pouring cash into emerging markets and pulling it out of fixed income holdings, as their wealth reached $33.3 trillion, more than double U.S. economic output, a study by Merrill Lynch and consultancy Capgemini found.

By Jay

June 20, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

@Buddy: Why do I have to achieve the rank and profile of a Kennedy to consider myself successful? Why is that what you consider a successful person to be? What one person considers to be successfull is not necessarily what the next person considers success. Coming out of law school if you immediately start your own private practice, you will struggle to get clients and make a good living, but with enough work and enough time you can turn that practice into a very successful one. Or you could come out of school and get a job at a big firm downtown and work 80+ hours a week for a good salary. The higher your class rank in law school, the better firm you get hired by, the more money you make. How do you get a high rank? You work harder than the next guy.
It all comes down to the fact that there are limitless options available to every person just waiting to be taken advantage of. And the sad fact is that most people are too lazy to put in the work required to exercise those options.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

McMillionaire - that’s great ! except the world population is over 6 billion, which makes your 8.7 million, millionaires, under 1/2 of 1 percent of the entire population. Hardly cause for celebration.

By McMillionaire?

June 20, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

BS — my point exactly. I’m seeing quite a few people say — go out and make your money… I’m just providing some info for you to ponder as you plan your move into that teeny tiny percentage.

By Tim

June 20, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

White Guys are the top Class. They spend time making sure black guys that may want to work has a job. Just think, Black men can’t and will not keep a family of three or four people supported and I’m sure he would make a GREAT CEO for 1000 to 2000 people. Just think, White women whom hang with the black guys because both are whiners and think everyone that looks their way owes them some type of support, SURE they will make GREAT CEO. My vote goes to white men and black women. They both support family and community.

By Temp

June 20, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

“under 1/2 of 1 percent of the entire population. Hardly cause for celebration.”

BS, your statement is ridiculous. Of any population, someone has to be the top 1/2 of 1 percent.

Or are you saying we should give everyone in the world a million dollars just so we can claim everyone is a millionaire? That would only serve to make the million dollars worthless.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Mcmillionaire - Most people just aren’t working hard enough!

By nikki

June 20, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Okay all you CEO’s can take a break. We get that you are who you are and you are special.

By McMillionaire?

June 20, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Temp — the point being, how much of the world’s resources and wealth is being used by that tiny percentage? that tiny percentage controls the majority of the resources. That’s the problem. not that everyone should be a millionaire, but that everyone (including millionaires) must have access to resources.

By McMillionaire?

June 20, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

pardon my typo — that should read everyone (including millionaires and the rest of us)

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

At what point did I say everyone should get a million dollars? All I did was point out a statistical fact.

And this fact and your point about some people having to make up 1/2 of 1 percent, proves that in our economic system only a certain percent can achieve a certain amount fo it to work.

Thus, “hard-work” alone is not the sole reason or a guarantee for people to “make it.” And to consider people who haven’t made it lazy is inaccurate, because as you point out the system can only hold so many at the top.

In what social class do you think the future children and grandchildren of these 8.7 million millionaires will be in?

I’m not knocking the system, but I will continue to point out that a very small percent of the population make a significant social class movement from where the class they were born into.

By Nathan Boggs

June 20, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

To think that CEO pay is a function of supply and demand is just misguided. Consider Dick Grasso, former head of the NYSE. He was being paid hundreds of millions. Yet, there is no comparable job that would have paid him that sum of money. As proof, just look at what he is making now. Same for Nardelli and the rest of these CEO’s. The notion of supply and demand assumes there is a functioning market. However, in setting executive pay, the forces of supply and demand do not come in to play. Essentially, friends get together and set their pay. That’s not the free market.

By ajs

June 20, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

As participants in a free-market, CEOs have the right to maximize their earnings. But there are three major problems with the system today.

The market is not punishing excessive packages. It is shareholders’ collective responisibility to hold the leaders accountable. This apathy is a function of the popularity of mutual funds and diluted ownership.

Independent audit committees are also lax in their duties to identify dishonest executives. The all-too-common practice of ‘backdating’ stock options has effectively turned performance bonuses into guaranteed income. Shareholders must have reliable information to reach educated decisions.

The Bush tax cuts also undeniably favor the top 1% of earners. Very few workers earning 30k will realize a savings in their capital gains taxes this year. Meanwhile, the prez is mandating budget cuts across the board to pay for these cuts, including areas such as law enforcement and protective services. Yet these two areas still boast some of his biggest supporters. Go W!

By Susan

June 20, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Jay wrote: “I think most people here are missing the big picture. I don’t think anyone would say that they don’t appreciate firefighters. Everyone understands that their job is difficult and dangerous and everyone respects and admires them for doing that job. Same with police and teachers. But, the point is that we live in America and in a free capitalistic society. We are free to choose our occupation. If we don’t like our job, we can go get another one. Or we can get more education to get a better paying job. There is no limit to how high you can go in this country if you are willing to work for it.”

Jay, if we were to really believe your B.S., then let’s visualize the following scenario, given the Jay philosophy of success and how to get ‘higher’:

The early hours of Saturday. Something electrical goes haywire in the house of Jay. There’s fire and smoke in the darkness as Jay fumbles, hands shaking, to dial 911.

The number rings, over and over again. As you stand in your front yard, nerves on edge, watching the fire grow, and praying your dog found his way out, no one answers.

Guess what, Jay? They all took your advice! They’ve got better educations and they’re asleep in their homes, surrounded by the fruits of their new, awesomely well-paid jobs. Radio operators, EMS paramedics, firefighters and policemen-they all read Jay’s blog and saw the Light. Eureka!

And what used to be Jay’s home is a pile of ashes.

Jay, your damned by faint praise attitude toward police, firemen and teachers is reprehensible. You ought to be down on your knees, and you will be one day, should disaster strike, that some very fine, brave and intelligent Americans are your local police, firemen and teachers. If they did not choose to be of service to society, I’d hate to think what our lives would be like.

Oh, and by the way, your dog did not make it. Your college education and high income did not give you the courage to go back inside and save him.

Jay, there is no higher place in a community than being the person who gives of himself. Police, firemen and teachers do it every day. You equate success with money, going higher, as you put it. You will never be anywhere near as as ‘high’ as your neighborhood firefighter. Not in any way, my friend.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

AJS, that’s part of the “American Dream” phenemonen. It’s hold on the culture is potent. The average American is in debt, so what kind of stocks or funds do they have that’s going to yield a significant capital gain? Yet the average American also believes that with just a little harder work or education they will break that barrier, which of course, only a small percent will.

What cracks me up even more are the working class who want to get rid of the estate or “death” tax as it was renamed (clever language manipulation). this is a tax that will affect only 1 percent of the population ( i believe the amount was raised to those with over a 4 million worth and their are protections for family farms etc.) yet they act as if they will be punished by it. Crazy thing is there fighting for the rich guy who would never fight for them, but rather cut their industry job so they can get a bonus!

By Buddy

June 20, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Exactly B.S. There are thousands of tech workers with advanced degrees who have lost their jobs to outsourcing to India for cheaper labor. Education and hard work rarely reaps six figure salaries for the majority of the population. And now even education doesn’t mean a thing when a CEO gets a wild hair up his behind and starts sending jobs overseas while he rakes in the big bonus payout.

By deegee

June 20, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

I would buy the argument that firefighters are being paid what the taxpayers can afford to pay them if the bureaucrats that run the local government weren’t being paid six figures to do the lousy jobs they do. Every time I read an article about some bureaucrat that was caught ripping off the taxpayers they almost always insult us even more by publishing their ridiculous salary.

I know plenty of people working 60+ hours a week that have leadership capability and creative problem solving ability. When I read the mindless, corporate pap, full of buzzwords learned from some corporate MBA program I just want to puke.

The CEOs of today are only focused on the quarterly balance sheet. They could care less about what product or service their company is selling. It’s all about cutting expenses. Lay some people off, cut travel, cut supplies, cut R&D and we look like geniuses to Wall Street. Why does it take an MBA to do that? Who is going to invent the next transistor or write the next revolutionary operating system? I would love to think it would be an American firm but lots of luck.

By firefighter

June 20, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

As a career firefighter I am truly humbled by the kind words of so many of you. I signed on to this profession 29 years ago knowing full well I would not become “wealthy” through this endeavor. Yes, I am disappointed when politics takes precedence over doing the right thing, but the support of the people we serve every day cannot be measured in dollars and cents. Thank you …and when you call 911 I’ll be there for you.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

Actually the first 2 million is exempt and the current tax cut package completely eliminates this tax by 2010. But that’s okay because we can just cut funding to all social programs, let these people “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” like our political leaders Kennedy, Kerry and Bush all have!

More on this new legislation:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B1049A1F3-920D-45F3-B716-1F9EB14FD1FD%7D&siteid=google

By Cletus Snow

June 20, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

CEO’s should be paid $1.00 a year and 15 percent of the profits they produce

By nikki

June 20, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

@firefighter - Thank you for the job you do. Not everyone can be a firefighter. You are a special breed. And I am aware that it is not about the money, because many of you have given up better salaries and situations to do what you do. I was deeply touched when watching the video of the DeKalb Firefighter who died recently. Seeing fire trucks on every bridge on 400 made me have cold chills.

By deegee

June 20, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Amen, Nikki. I pray that fallen firefighter was looking down on us and could see the outpouring of emotion. God rest his soul in peace.

By Donna

June 20, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

This is a good discussion. The firefighters, policemen (women), and teachers are paid by our tax dollars. If we, as indicated on this board, want these people to receive a better salary, then we must be willing to pay higher taxes. CEOs’ salaries are based on how much the company is making. Large corporations that are bringing in millions and millions of dollars each year are willing to pay these salaries. Are they deserved? I am not sure. I have met a few really good CEOs in my business and some not so great. Firefighters, policemen (women), and teachers do vital jobs in our communities. Would I be willing to do anyone of them, no. I do appreciate them though and do give to their various fundraisers when asked.

By deegee

June 20, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t necessarily agree that CEO salary is based on how much the company is making. I have seen CEOs drive a company into financial disaster because of their lack of vision yet they still make millions. After the board ousts them and they take their golden parachute, some other big company pays them big bucks for whatever reason, I don’t know.

By chipper

June 20, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Great post Donna- the point that everyone is overlooking is that it is TAXPAYER MONEY that pays for these salaries of teachers, police officers and firefighters. If everyone cares so deeply about the issue then why does everyone run to the right when tax cuts are promised??? I completely respect all those who are complaining about firefighters’ pay, but it would be inherently hypocritical to then support tax cuts and b*** and moan about high taxes! this is like people who support the war but wouldn’t send their kids into the army. if you’re gonna support something you gotta do it through and through

By nikki

June 20, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

You wouldn’ necessarily have to raise taxes, just cut back on government waste and overkill. We need to be involved in our government and see that things are equitable.

By frank123

June 20, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Nikki: The news media shows a few examples of government waste and people then unrealistically believe the all types of huge projects can be funded by cutting “government waste”. When it gets down to it the employment of a firefighter, CEO or police officer is merely a contract. If they don’t like the deal (eg $1 and 15% of what they earn the company or $35,000) they don’t sign on the dotted line. The firefighters and police have very very strong unions, and they arm twist to get the best deal the can. The bottom line is police and fire fighter work is something lots and lots of people can be trained to do and that is why they don’t get paid a lot. That does not mean we should not honor the fallen, but don’t raise them to God like stature. The people who are risking their lives everyday (literally) are in Iraq and Afganistan, and they get paid peanuts with minimal benefits and no union.

By frank123

June 20, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

@frank123 - You know what you can do with your condescending attitude.

Not everyone can be a firefighter or a soldier. You certainly couldn’t. With your attitude you would last just a few days. You are one of those who don’t get it. You just like to hear yourself talk.

By SW

June 20, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

Buddy, you are way off key. Sure Chelsea Clinton may not be the most qualified person for the job that she occupies, but that can be said for plenty of people. There may be other people out there more qualified to do the job you do, but they either didn’t apply, or didn’t give the employer that same impression. Chelsea Clinton is also probably better educated than the majority of people as well. It might help if everyone would concentrate of working harder, better educating themselves, and excelling rather than sitting around whining about how much more everyone else makes and then crying about how unfair it is. Besides, I have no problem with the CEO’s of corporations I invest in taking home large paychecks as long as they are generating value for me too. I would rather pay top dollar for a great leader who enhances my returns than pay less to some average Joe who doesn’t do jack for me.

By Firefighters Wife

June 20, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Jeff you Ivy League sore, my husband would still save your Ivy League but, and he has a Masters Degree. Not everyone can be a firefighter and not every one will. Thank you dear husband for risking your life to save the Ivy Leaguers.

By Fred

June 20, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Okay, for all of the griping about capitalism and the exorbitant pay that CEOs make, let’s just change the system where the fireman, teacher, and every other public servant makes the same as every CEO. Every one’s salary should be the same.

How about those “overpaid” business owners who make it big and earn 7 figures? No exceptions, everyone gets paid the same.

Wait, this sounds eerily like something else. You economics folks know what I’m saying.

Who are we to say that someone should not earn $54 million? If you don’t want him to earn it then don’t shop at Home Depot. Go to Lowe’s instead so their CEO can make $54 million.

By Bad at Math

June 20, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Cletus, try this math.

Home Depot had a 2005 operating profit of $5.8 billion. If you gave the CEO 15%, his pay check would be over $800 million……

By interesting

June 20, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

I don’t really think you can compare a fire fighter’s salary to a CEO. I do think fireman and other public workers may not make as much as they should, but many CEOs have a significant amount of time invested in their careers in terms of education and work experience…..not easily compared to that of fire fighter.

Of course when talking about the CEO of Home Depot…..his pay is just ridiculous. The stock hasn’t moved since he’s been there (wait…actually it has moved….downwards). As an ex-employee I know that he is not worth the money and has run a lot of good talent out of that organization. He’s a horrible CEO.

By B.S.

June 20, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Interesting,

You need to stop being jealous of Nardelli, stop being lazy and stop whining. Everyone in America can be a millionaire if they work hard and stop complaining about those who are successful!

By Jay

June 20, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

@Susan: I am not quite sure where you get the idea that I don’t feel that being a firefighter is a respectable job by reading my post. I made it quite clear that I respect and admire firefighters. I think they should be held in high esteem. When I talk about “going higher” I was talking strictly about money, because that is what this entire forum is about. Like I said earlier, the fact that we all love and admire firefighters is not in question here. But the fact remains that you simply are not going to make very much money being a firefighter. Some people could care less about money and want to serve the public. In their case, a firefighter could be the “highest” that person could go. Other people simply want to make the most amount of money possible and could less about serving the public and in their case, a firefighter would not be very high to them. Am I making sense? Anyway, don’t get the idea that I think firefighters are on the bottom of the totum pole. They are probably much better people than most CEO’s simply for having a job that directly serves the public.

By BeniRacist

June 20, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

I for one am sick of tired of all those athletes who get paid millions - and the usual suspect are - young, some violent black men. Why don’t you take your racist statement Beni and write somewhere else. If the women, latinos and black want a job as an executive, then go get an education and start your own business.

By Jay

June 20, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Let me just say one thing about athletes, movie stars, etc. I know that when you look at their income it looks absolutely ridiculous, and it probably is. But, I think someone needs to put in at least one post of support for them, so I will do it. Athletes and actors (but especially athletes) have a very rare talent. They have the ability to do things that most of us cannot do. And that talent is one that is used to entertain millions of people everyday. That is why they make big bucks. Everytime you see Andruw Jones makes a diving catch that no other center fielder in the league, let alone anyone else, could make, you are seeing why he makes millions of dollars. We pay big money to be entertained.

By Nola Redd

June 20, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

If the problem is that firefighters are not making enough money…how about we pay them more money? And instead of screaming about adding to our taxes, why don’t we reroute the inefficient taxes that are already being collected? In most businesses, the companies get rewarded for coming in under budget. In the government, you get in trouble for coming in under budget. Cut this ridiculous insanity and get the government to spend less than it makes (I know, it’ll never happen), OR move firefighters and police officers further up the list. It is insane that our local heros are paid significantly less than counterparts in other cities, something I just finished blasting here

That said, if you don’t like your job and your pay status, do something about it. Most people in America hate their jobs - look at how many lottery winners quit immediately (and end up bankrupt soon after, incidentally). If you hate your job, develop a gameplan to move to something else, and then do it. It takes more thought than sitting in front of the television at night, but there you go. Most millionaires watch little to no TV anyway, so that would get you ready.

By BeniRacist

June 20, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Well millions of people pay for and want their Visa cards to work, a new car to drive, their cell phone service, tupperware, electicity, and all the other services and products that come from companies that are run by CEOs. CEO’s have a very rare talent as well. Otherwise, everyone would be a CEO.

By anthony

June 20, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

lmao @ tim……….”My vote goes to white men and black women. They both support family and community.”

I’m a black man/husband & father of 3. I was getting p** off when i read the comment about black men not being able to take care a family of 3 or 4 let alone 2000 employees until the last sentence. So sad but there is an ounce of truth to it.

By Grant

June 20, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

May we please bring some logic into the equation? Government departments are not profit centers - they rely on tax dollars to support a budget and make payroll… Corporations, such as Home Depot and others, are huge profit centers and therefore have the capital dollars to pay the CEO (leader) that has lead the march to those profits. If a firefighter, police officer, and EMT/Paramedic - and I absolutely admire them for what they do especially when compared to their pay - expects to make more per year then we, as taxpayers, are the ones who have to be willing to pay more taxes to increase revenue to the point of supporting such increases in pay/benefits. Not a single sole has to make a single purchase at Home Depot, Lowes, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, or any other number of retail outlets; yet we all do - this is where their revenue originates and it’s the reason they can afford to pay the salaries paid. We pay our taxes and virtually every one of us gripes at the tax/millage rate and/or the assessment on our property. Police officers, EMT’s, Paramedics, and fire personnel are magnificent at what they do but how many have the education, experience, corporate culture background, and forecasting/budgeting expertise to lead a Home Depot (or other similar company) down the road to success? I, too, wish those in public service made a larger paycheck but until we, as taxpayers, are ready to “foot the bill” don’t expect it to happen…

By Dan

June 20, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

BS you still don’t get it 95% of the population changes social class, it is a plain fact. I alluded that the top 1% regardless of how they got there have no impact on those figures. The fact is for most folks the harder you work the more you will have. That doesn’t mean you will be a millionaire but if you work harder than most and are smarter than most you will have more than most. It is our systems ability to provide that opportunity that has provided the incentives for growth and innovation. It is no coincidence that for a thousand years prior to the birth of this country the horse was the fastest means of transportaion some 225 years later look where we are!

By privatized service

June 20, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

if we feel that firefighters and police officers and teachers deserve better pay, let’s privatize their services. contract them out to the lowest bidder… after all, we are paying for it, and we need to get more bang for our bucks… then we can compare CEOs in a market driven economy to public sector jobs.