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DEL.ICIO.US“Who needs city life?”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’ve tried to remember the last time I drove to Atlanta for dining or entertainment.
I’ve been thinking about this since big news broke Monday on ajc.com that the Class AAA Richmond Braves, the minor-league team of the Atlanta Braves, may move to Gwinnett. The team has played in Richmond, Va., since 1966. A formal announcement is expected today.
This is huge.
It’s huge even if it fizzles and the affiliate stays put or looks elsewhere for a stadium. It’s huge because of what it says about the county. It’s huge, really, because of what it says about suburbs in general. So often they get painted with a brush so broad it could fill Turner Field.
You hear it ad nauseam.
The suburbs lack entertainment and sophisticated (translation: pricey) dining. Nothing but racists live “out there.” The burbs are vast, disconnected wastelands. They’re a mess of cookie-cutter subdivisions and strip malls. Soul-less sprawl, some of which I’ve criticized.
But hey, this isn’t Decatur. Over-development is a metro Atlanta problem, not just a Gwinnett one.
Where you live depends on who you are, your needs. City living isn’t better than suburban living, and vice versa.
I love Atlanta. Have nothing against it. The city, though, caters generally to young, professional singles, kidless couples and urbane empty nesters.
The new Gwinnett appeals primarily to folk like me: married with children. Fortunately for us, the county has long stopped playing second fiddle. More and more, there’s scant reason for me, any of us, really, to take I-85 south. Let’s talk food.
Think independent, international eateries, not Taco Bell and not Buford Highway. We’ve got it all. Indian. Thai. (My family and I had some from an organic joint Friday.) Chinese. Caribbean. Dominican. Vietnamese. Korean. Blangladeshi. Pakistani. And American, of course.
Let’s talk sports.
The Gwinnett Gladiators, a minor-league affiliate of the Atlanta Thrashers, play here. The Georgia Force, the Arena League football team, recently announced it will return to the Gwinnett Arena after playing for several years in Philips Arena. The ABA Atlanta Vision basketball team had its home opener at the Gwinnett Center on Friday. And, don’t forget high school athletics.
Let’s talk entertainment.
The Gwinnett Arena draws A-listers, from Elton John to Bruce Springsteen. Wild Bill’s, a colossal nightclub and performing arts hall, has found an audience. And smaller club venues - some offering live entertainment - are starting to find a niche.
Let’s talk shopping.
The mall options are mind-boggling, shamefully so. Discover Mills. Mall of Georgia. Gwinnett Place. The Forum. The Avenue Webb Gin. Huge.
You might argue there’s one area in which Gwinnett lags behind Atlanta: arts galleries, museums, the performing arts. Theater groups are closing the gap, though. And let’s be real: Not many of us pine to see a Picasso original or a Bearden collage. Maybe once every five or six years.
We’d much prefer to have a local baseball shrine, a pitch that helps define a broader sense of identity.
In a few years, a team and stadium might be right in our backyard.
Rick Badie’s column appears on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. Contact him at 770-263-3875 or e-mail rbadie@ajc.com.
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By Dead_in_Suburbia
January 15, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Seems to me that you might have a different opinion if the city you refer to was navigable with adequate transit options, and had the kinds of traditions that bring people in from the suburbs simply to share in the experience of being there together. That’s what great cities like Austin, New Orleans, Philly, Chicago and New York have that sets them apart.
Atlanta is not that interesting of a city, so you aren’t missing much by staying in Gwinnett.
By Brian
January 15, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
Where is Gwinnett? I haven’t left the perimeter in months. But I cross under the traffic standing still on 85N everyday.
Gwinnett is like the entertainment that resides there…the minor leagues. Where is your High Museum, Fernbank, professional sports, top of the line restaurants.
By George
January 15, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Darling, I love you, but give me Park Avenue.
By You have a point
January 15, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
I have to agree with both posters here… Atlanta is not a very interesting city, so you really aren’t missing much entertainment-wise. However, being a city dweller myself, I would never in a million years trade my commute with anyone living outside the perimeter! Unless you work from home or in the actual suburbs, it is not worth the cheaper cost of living to be out there. I had the misfortune of needing to exchange a gift at a store located only in Northpointe Mall, and traffic was nightmarish even on a weekend!
By J
January 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
The city, though, caters generally to young, professional singles, kidless couples and urbane empty nesters.
This comes from someone who can’t have spent time in Virginia-Highland, Morningside, Inman Park, Candler Park, Lake Claire, Grant Park, Medlock Park, Sagamore Hills, Toco Hills, or all the un-named neighborhoods in between.
I moved to my neighborhood of CP because it meant no commute and tons of young families.
There are two versions of the city. The one Mr Badie describes…and the one I live in.
By John
January 15, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Any place within 50 miles of Atlanta is the city to me. You can keep it.
By .
January 15, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
OMG, can you please be more ignorant when listing the “I’ve never lived in the city and don’t know what I am talking about” stereotype that goofy, fearful, simple-minded rednecks have?
By Fred
January 15, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Alex… your comment about Gay people was very rude and hurtful. If you are going to meanspirited like that please do me a favor and just don’t post. Furthermore, gay people are everywhere not just in the city. Grow up and get some manners.
By City Guy
January 15, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Re “Pretty obvious”: Why no comparison for bigoted and judgemental?…oh yeah…that’s why “Pretty obvious” can’t live in the city…
By Stan
January 15, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
How about I’ll live where ever I want and can afford, everyone else live where they want to live. Why freaking take the time to argue OTP vs. ITP?
By ron
January 15, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
I live so far out in the woods I have to have daylight pumped in.No traffic,long walks,canoeing,fishing.Quiet.I go to town only when I absolutely have to.Satellite internet.No phone required.Deer,bear ,bobcat,squirrels,birds,coyotes.No tv.Did I mention quiet?
By Nan
January 15, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Alex - Once, just once, I’d like to drop in on a blog conversation at the AJC and not see comments posted by some ignorant racist yahoo. Is every other person in this state a moron? Is it brain damage from lack of water or drinking too much Coca Cola? Or are there just way too many people who come from families trees that don’t fork very much?
By J
January 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
I made the jump from the city to the burbs last September. Here’s a couple of reasons why:
Taxes—My taxes (I lived in a townhouse in Buckhead) were more than my mortgage. What did I get for that? Failing roads, sewers, pothole madness, and plenty of programs for babies mommas/daddies. I basically got tired of paying for others.
Traffic—the GADOT has morons working for it. Let’s see…we’ll work on major highways and routes only in the mornings and afternoons during rush hours and only on important holidays. We’ll make it one lane for 30 miles on Christmas Eve and then sit and talk to each other on the back of DOT trucks. Did I mention the police? Always at QT getting free coffee or sitting on the side of 75 or 85 with their blue lights doing nothing but screwing up traffic. Oh, you’re finishing a report? Well drive somewhere behind a building and turn off your blue lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
City Drivers—They sit at green lights, run red lights, don’t signal, drive 35 in the fast lane, tailgate, did I mention they don’t signal? They speed in traffic jams-is it possible? Yes. For rush hour traffic, you must have the senses of Spider Man, the reaction time of an F1 driver, the wisdom of Yoda, and feelings of the Hulk.
The city is full of oblivians. I cannot count the amount of times that I’ve had to walk behind a slow urbanite as they yak on their cell phone about “Pookie” while taking up the whole grocery store lane, yes the WHOLE lane. I’ve been at Publix on Paces Ferry and had rich old ladies and old jerks step and stand directly in front of me while I’m looking for an item. So close, that I could touch them if I stuck my tongue out. Never do they apologize. My favorite is the women that will walk down the aisles then just stop and stand. If it were I-85, people would have been killed in the pile-up. They just stop and stare into space until you say “excuse you” at least 2 times (I don’t say “excuse me” anymore as I’ve done nothing wrong).
The burbs are chea-eee-eeee-pah! My taxes are nothing! My house is hue-jah! There are great places to eat! The women are hot, educated, and employed! Safe parks! Better traffic—though slow but better! Polite people! Everything is nice and new! Don’t knock the burbs. Most are just mad because us tax payers, I mean, program providers are moving away.
By Button
January 15, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Stan, I agree with you. It’s just that tens of thousands of Gwinnetians, and Cobbytes drive into/out of the city and around the perimeter. It would be perfect if they would all work where they live like those of us who live ITP.
Otherwise, having lived in Gwinnett for 10 of 35+ adult years (other 25 ITP) it is just mostly a middle class place to live with minor league offerings. Sorry but that is how I feel. Maybe it’s the horrible commute I had and/or the divorce after the promise of great schools and all. Did’nt work all that well for me. Shoulda raised the family ITP and taken my chances.
By Tom
January 15, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
I enjoy Atlanta more. The main appeal of Gwinnett used to be the lack of traffic, but it seems to have caught up to Atlanta.
I do see more ethnic restaurants popping up in Gwinnet but with the exception of Ippolitos I haven’t found one worth going to a second time.
Can you really compare a AAA team to the Braves? Would you rather see John Smoltz and Chipper Jones or a ….. I dont know anyone on the AAA roster. Maybe one Mike Hampton start as he recovers from injury.
As for the Gladiators, I won’t even get started on what Ilya has brought to the ice this season.
Atlanta restaurants are not necessarily overpriced. Give me La Fonda, EATS, Royal Orchid, the Gyro place off Virginia, and Thumbs Up over Frontera, Applebees, Panda express, and IHOP any day of the week.
I think a majority of people in GA would agree that most of downtown Atlanta is a more desirable place to live. Just look at homeprices in the highlands or midtown and compare them to anywhere you want in Gwinnett.
Gwinnett arena is drawing some top notch concerts. The free parking and relative ease of getting in and out of the venue is a perk.
I am not sure even about the crime comparisons. Hasn’t Gwinnett recently made news for two police officers being shot and a female hiker disappearing in Buford?
As for shopping, Gwinnett Mall, Discover Mills, MOG vs Phipps, Lenox, and Atlantic station. Who cares they are all overpriced.
By ITP
January 15, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Your won’t like it in the city. There are bums and criminal everywhere just looking for you. The only reason Fulton County Government isn’t more black racist or corrput is due to such massive incompetence and apathy even stealing more of our tax dollars is beyond their ability. All the sports teams are drug addicted, sex crazed losers and parking is as expensive and as a ticket to the game. Your kids could learn a lot from the heroes. It’s not that we don’t like your lost slow SUV driving self fat wife and 2.5 ill mannered rug rats, it’s just that we don’t want to see you here. I come out to Mall Hell once a year to see you and your kind so please limit your vists to the city accordingly.
By abc
January 15, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I think it’s great that a Braves minor league franchise is moving so close, I’ll go watch them, for sure. I’ll still go see Rome play too, and I’ll even occasionally show up at Turner Field. I love the ballparks.
To bash the burbs is to not know much about them. Same with bashing the city. I live in the burbs where it’s nice and quiet, and drive into the city for what it has to offer — restaurants being on the bottom of the list, there aren’t any that are worth the commute. You’d be surprised at some of the restaurant quality outside the perimeter.
By Bruce Wicox
January 15, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
I don’t like the way it was done, talk about small town politics. A few years ago a commissioner came down from the mount, the taxpayer funded retreat in the North Georgia mountains, the only idea shared with the public was the stadium idea. Build a stadium, a team and the people will come.
It wasn’t all that well received, some people believed Gwinnett had more pressing problems than a baseball stadium, selfish people. Well what do you know, we magically end up with a baseball team without a stadium. What kind of county would we be if we didn’t do our part and chip in our fair share of taxspayer money for the stadium.
I think it should have been put on a ballot and let the people decide, but what do the people know, they elect the commissioners.
An aside, Rick there are now two excellent Polish resturants and a bunch of real Italian eateries now. Maybe they’re just too rich, like the city, for your taste.
By J
January 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
abc, I’ve lived in both and I have to say that I prefer the city. Mostly because of the commute but also because of the lack of sense of place and community in the burbs. I also don’t appreciate being asked what church I go to from every new person I meet. I don’t like it when people assume I am socially or politically conservative because I am caucasion, make 6 figures, have a child, and live a credit-free/debt-free life….and therefore make disparaging comments to me about people not like my above description.
I’m not saying the city doesn’t have its problems. Only that the problems it has don’t seem to chafe at my lifestyle.
By Sobecat
January 15, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
LOL @ post #1, totally ridiculous.
By BPJ
January 15, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Different people want different things, and that’s great. I prefer city life - and we’re married with children, by the way. Yes, it’s a little more expensive intown (remember to factor in costs of driving more OTP), but there’s a reason: the cost of any good rises with demand. More people want to live intown than ever before, so prices are up. I’m glad that not everyone wants to live in the city - or I would have trouble affording it, too.
Mr. Badie is right that the arts are the biggest difference; that’s something very important to me, and it’s a big factor in my preference for living where I do. I do “pine” to see good art much more often than every 5 or 6 years…..it’s more like weekly. So I live a few minutes walk from the High, and a short trip to most of the best galleries and theatres.
Atlanta’s a much more interesting city than some of these posters give it credit for. But old stereotypes from the 70s die hard.
By annie
January 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
“And let’s be real: Not many of us pine to see a Picasso original or a Bearden collage. Maybe once every five or six years. We’d much prefer to have a local baseball shrine, a pitch that helps define a broader sense of identity.”
Well… I guess so… but since when does driving on crowded highways past mile after mile of Taco Bells, Wendys, KFCs, BPs, Wal Marts, etc to get to an expensive (yet taxpayer-subsidized) baseball game define a broader sense of identify? Whose identity?
We (a family with children) happen to like having a world-class orchestra, museums, universities and other amenities close by and we like being able to walk to enjoy restaurants, pools, parks and greenspace in the city.
Our neighborhood ball team is the local pick-up group that meets every Sunday at 4:00 p.m. in Iverson Park. I’ll take that over your santized, subsidized, suburban version any day.
By SteveO
January 15, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Why are we continually subjected to these retarded OTP vs. ITP debates courtesy of the AJC? The gist of this story seems to be “Gwinnett isn’t as bad as it used to be - so it’s awesome. Up yours Atlanta!”
Live where you like, and stop pretending like you’ve gained any type of superiority from it. Your need to yak about how awesome Gwinnett is leads me to believe that you’re pre-emptively defending it because you’re not certain that you’re happy with your decision to live there.
By Sobecat
January 15, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
J,you telling us how much money you make, when it is totally irrelevant to your point, is probably just as bad or worse than them asking you what church you attend.
By mad
January 15, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
I hope I don’t confuse people when I tell them that I live in near downtown but my address is really Grayson.
By J
January 15, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
I didn’t say how much, just 6 figures. That could mean 100,000 to 999,999. And I only brought it up because everyone says that “liberals” are only liberal because they don’t have their own money. Even my conservative parents used to tell me that once I started paying real taxes I wouldn’t be liberal anymore. Except that I get more and more liberal every year…
in other words, I brought it up to show how because I seem to fit a political stereotype that people in the burbs I used to live in just assumed that meant I actually did fit there.
By Six figures
January 15, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
$949.86 is seven figures.
By WTF?
January 15, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
One things for sure, anyone that doesn’t like Atlanta (ITP or OTP), can pack up and happily go live wherever they want! ITP nor OTP, neither is better or worse, they all have something to offer, or people wouldn’t live there. Now if you’re not a native, GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By J
January 15, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
So is 0.000011.
By .
January 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
If all the non-natives went home there would be no educated people left to work all the high-tech, scientific, and medical jobs in the city…
By happens all the time
January 15, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry, the now-“J” frequently hops around boards bragging about her income she thinks she has, her husband’s degree, her superior bungalow, etc. You’ll get used to it. Just ignore.
By hotlanta
January 15, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Glad I don’t live in the burbs. Folks get snatched and killed. But it not safe to be in certain neighorhoods something might happen to you. Dateline might come to your home looking for your perverted husband. Your next door neighbor could be growing weed in the basement or meth in the kitchen. The so called supposebly happy housewife who is home schooling her kids might snap put them in the bathtub and kill all of them. Rowdy kids and adults might detroy my Xmas decorations. The well known doctor could be taking a overseas trip to have sex with young boys. I might feel so safe by being happy and bragging about my kids going to one of the top high schools in the country. Then get a phone call that 2 boys calling themselves the Trench Coat Mafia has shot the place up. You can ride in the burbs and see all of the drug and alcohol rehab centers. Makes you wanna go hummmm. Why are they here. They would not be there if it wasn’t a need for them. My husband might be having sex with the hooker down the street in our exclusive subdivision. AHHHHH Surburban life. It can’t be beat.
By joe
January 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I agree with DeadinSuburbia: I’ve lived ITP and OTP as well as out-of-state. The main reason I and many others live ITP now is because of long commute times in this hellish traffic. Besides most things being the same in both places, I do think the ITP-ers have a greater sense of self-importance. Why, I’m not sure, but I also notice that many of them have never lived in “real” cities. Most of Atlanta still looks and feels like a big town with nice neighborhoods and strip malls. In other words, just like a suburb.
By J
January 15, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Funny…I’m a man, have a wife, not a husband…J is short of Jason….and I just noticed…the post at 10:25am by “J” is not me…whoever that is moved into the burbs anyway…
By WTF?
January 15, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
If all the non-natives went home there would be no educated people left to work all the high-tech, scientific, and medical jobs in the city… I tell you what, leave and let’s find out!!! Horsepucky, I tell ya!!!
By GP Dad
January 15, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
“The city, though, caters generally to young, professional singles, kidless couples and urbane empty nesters.”
Either Mr. Badie hasn’t been south of Jimmy Carter Blvd. in 10 years, or my kids and all their friends in the neighborhood don’t really exist. And he thinks ITP-ers have misperceptions about the ‘burbs?
By Jen
January 15, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
I think you’re talking about me…and I still don’t understand how it’s bragging to bring up facts that draw an outline of what you look like to most people…it’s not like any of it is particularly special…yeah, we make good money…but it doesn’t go far in this town…and most of our neighbors do much, much better. And yes, my husband has a higher degree…so do I…but most people do now-a-days…it’s the only way you can get a job in this town. And I don’t live in a bungalow. I live in a brick traditional….and it’s small…but it’s close to work and that’s why we like it.
How does that picture sound like something to brag about? Talking about it simply lets someone know my perspective.
Should I come on here and pretend to be a SAHM who lives in a house in burbs and drives a Suburban (stereotype)?
Or a single mom struggling to provide for my 3 children, living in an apartment, working 2 jobs (stereotype)?
Or maybe I should be myself.
By kitty
January 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
You couldnt PAY me enough money to live in Atlanta. What has the town got that Boulder, Boston or other “cultural” cities dont have? The dirt, the crime, the arrogance. Keep ATL, no one lese wants it…..
By ffff
January 15, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Like someone else once said: No one wants to live there but will claim that they do.
By JJ
January 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
I would LOVE to see the Richmond Braves come to Gwinnett county. We need more “Family friendly” environments here. I love the Gwinnett Arena, the Gladiators are so much fun to go see. Very family oriented, and the parking is FREE, and I can be home within 20 minutes of leaving a MAJOR concert there.
And J your 10:25 post was wonderful. Thank you!!! I love Gwinnett, and have been a resident here for 17 years. I have owned two homes, my work is in Gwinnett, and my child has been in Gwinnett County schools all her life, starting at Berkeley Lake Elem, and now at North Gwinnett H.S. Go BULLDOGS!!!!!
I do not care for the City of Atlanta, and only go downtown once a year, for the Macy’s Christmas Parade. Although Atlantic Station is very nice, but I could NEVER afford to purchase a home there. I purchased a nice home, 3 bedroom, two and 1/2 baths, 2 car garage, in a wonderful family neighborhood for less than $130,000 five years ago. My property taxes are less than $1,100.00. I have a huge fenced yard, and the neighbors all know each other and actually wave at one another. I am very convenient to everything Gwinnett has to offer.
No city dwelling for this gal!!!
By Jen
January 15, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
In regards to earlier comments regarding The city, though, caters generally to young, professional singles, kidless couples and urbane empty nesters.
This is probably the biggest misconception I hear about the city. Perhaps this was true 20 years ago but now it is not.
Granted, you probably won’t find a whole lot of families in Buckhead (though you will in parts) or in the high rises of Midtown (though you will in the homes along Monroe, etc).
But Atlanta is being rejuvenated by young families more and more every day.
By SteveO
January 15, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
JJ, please don’t associate Atlantic Station with Atlanta. It’s basically a mall filled with chain stores, cheap vinyl siding condos, and crappy chain bars owned by Ashton Kutcher.
Essentially, it’s a recreation of the suburbs located in the city.
By MrHughes
January 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
And, I thought Gwinnett was great because they painted it on that water tower you can see from I-85.
“Success Lives Here”
By Malone
January 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Hotlanta You are an idiot. All those things you posted could happen ANYWHERE ANYTIME……..
At least we don’t have to worry about welfare mammas, the projects and the lazy ne’er do wells that hang on street corners with a bucket of water to wash your car windows.
By .
January 15, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
The only thing good about Atlanta Station is the cinema and the PJ’s Coffee (which is sadly now a chain).
By jmc
January 15, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
You make 6 figures and can’t tell the difference between numerals and symbols…figures. I’ll take the country life over all of it. I spent a 3 day weekend at the Hyatt last September and although there is some beautiful views, I was afraid to leave the hotel. Atlanta is dirty, grimey and full of crime. Gwinnett isn’t any better. 30+ miles east of atl is the only place for someone who enjoys the peace and quiet. I can leave my house doors unlocked and my keys in my car without worry. Can you?
By Sandy_G
January 15, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
I love Gwinnett too. I’ve lived in several large cities in the U.S. and Gwinnett has everything that any large city does including:
Gwinnett Philharmonic Orchestra,
Northeastern Atlanta ballet company,
Hudgens Art Gallery and Children’s Art Museum,
Aurora theater,
Live music and concerts by nationally-known artists at the Gwinnett Center,
Vines Botanical Gardens and garden railroad(really beautiful and FREE),
An award-winning park system with 32 parks covering 12,000 acres and offering aquatic centers, skate parks, dog parks, etc. (also FREE)
Championship golf courses with national tournaments,
Southeastern Railway Museum (this is a huge facility with an impressive collection of restored train cars and engines),
Gwinnett Environmental & Heritage Center - A really cool and state-of-the-art facility with interactive displays for kids (if you haven’t been, you really need to go)
Chateau Elan - a four-star resort, spa and winery with a golf course,
Stone Mountain Park - with Laser Light Show and festivals throughout the year
Three minor-league sports teams with ticket prices about 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of a Brave’s game
Several historic downtowns with festivals, outdoor concerts and great restaurants including Norcross, Lawrenceville, Duluth, Suwannee and Buford.
Yes, we have crime and traffic, but we also have low property taxes and affordable housing. Why do we live in Gwinnett? Because for what we would pay for a one-bedroom, one-bath, 700-sq.-ft. condo downtown, we bought a 2,000 sq.-ft. house on a half acre, wooded lot in a swim/tennis neighborhood. If ignorance is bliss, then I’ll happily admit to being the most ignorant people OTP.
By .
January 15, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Malone I guess you didn’t understand that Hotlanta was painting a stereotypical picture of the burbs. Just like you did.
Both are somewhat true in both the burbs and the city.
I know there are plenty of welfare recipients and projects in the burbs.
I have yet to see someone try to wash my car window…but maybe that’s just downtown…
By .
January 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
can’t tell the difference between numerals and symbols
Who said? Six-figures means, and everyone knows it, between $100,000 adn $999,999. No significant digits and not counting the $ and the ,.
However, whoever it was decided to be cute and say that $XXX.XX was seven-figures, counting the $ and .
So, now that rule are up for grabs and if someone wants to come on here and use some combination of actual numerals with or without counting $ or , or . then who the heck cares?
It says nothing of anyone’s intelligence. It only speaks to people wanting to show each other up. Including “J”, and whoever that was, and “jmc” - all who just want to tell everyone else how stupid they are.
I do agree with you on one thing. Country living is fine. I can do country (if I didn’t have to commute) or I could do city. Just can’t do burbs…
By jmc
January 15, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
@ . - not trying to imply stupid but you must admit - it was kinda dumb :)Kinda like everyone arguing over salaries anyway. Heck, we can be or make anything we want online.
By DH
January 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
If, and this is a big if, I could live on a beautiful lake in my dreama home with twenty acres I would choose outside the city. I can’t afford that. So, I will take intown city living any day over the banal landscape of one cookie cutter home after another. Character is void in most of what is being built in the burbs. I love the little microcosm areas that are srinping up such as Atlantic Station. I hope more are in the works, it’s wonderful to park and shop and not have to enter a mall (ugh!) yet have a variety of shops to choose from. Perhaps it’s not the city of Atlanta that’s not interesting to some on here, perhaps they’re not interesting people to begin with ?
By hotlanta
January 15, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Excuse me Malone. Keep driving in Gwinnett County and make a left at the redlight and you will come upon some trailer parks. As if Gwinnett has mansions and expensive houses all throughout the county. You are an idiot.
By .
January 15, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Well, it can be dumb for people to talk about what they make, but how is that different than what Sandy_G is talking about - about how great it is to be her in Gwinnett with her “2,000 sq.-ft. house on a half acre, wooded lot in a swim/tennis neighborhood”?
People are trying to paint a picture of who they are.
“J” was trying to show something about the stereotype of Republican/conservative = making money vs. Democrat/liberal = living in mom’s basement.
Sandy_G was tryin to show how she think SHE’S got the better quality of life.
In the end, if they’re happy where they are then good for them.
If I could telecommute I’d buy 20 acres up in Elijay with a loghouse and some cows and just enjoy it. But I can’t so I enjoy my little house in the city where I don’t have to deal with traffic.
Hey, at least it’s treed enough that when your windows are open all you can hear are bird or crickets….
Instead of the moon you get to see the pencil building…it’s pretty…you get to see the moon, too…maybe not so many stars. But that’s what the lights on jumbo jets are for!
Since we can be anyone online I’ve decided I am a 29 year old millionaire living under the bridge over Lake Clara Meer in my secret underwater fantasy land….with my secret laboratory.
By Jason
January 15, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
“You couldnt PAY me enough money to live in Atlanta. What has the town got that Boulder, Boston or other ‘cultural’ cities dont have?”
Well, for one thing, despite having a large white-collar workforce, the cost of living in Atlanta is extremely low—especially compared to cities like New York and Boston, where you’ll pay $2000/mo. for a studio. That’s why so many well-educated northerners move here. Also, I wouldn’t call Boulder, CO, a “cultural” city; it’s more of college town with few job opportunities outside of the second-rate university.
By a
January 15, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
To DH: I live on High Falls Lake about 45 miles south of Atlanta. It is very nice but it comes with a price. I have to have flood insurance and it is high. Every time the lake rises (often) I pick up trash from my property for weeks that the receding water leaves behind. Living on the lake also makes it easy for thieves to enter your property and steal anything not bolted down. The lake also attracts flocks of geese, and for some reason they like to hang out for weeks at a time and they are MESSY. And don’t get me started on the beavers…they seem to love the trees in my backyard. Don’t get me wrong, living on the water is nice, but it does have its pitfalls.
BTW, I love Amsterdam…by far my favorite city.
By lynn
January 15, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
a - I have a log house on Jackson and your right. There are downs to that to. My property taxes alone are over 5k a year although no flood insurance as I have enough elevation off the lake. No problem with ducks and geese either since we live on the main body of the water. Other than watching them swim by while having my morning coffee. Let me think…I guess taxes are the only downside.
By jb
January 15, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Amsterdam - smokin!!
By BPJ
January 15, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Hey, folks, let’s cool it with the “you are an idiot” comments, OK? Just because you’re not having to talk face-to-face doesn’t mean all courtesy has to go out the window.
As I said earlier, different people prefer different things: country, suburb, city. City life works best for me.
As for Atlantic Station, two observations: First, it’s about 5 years away from being built out, so it has not yet become what it will be. While aspects of the design are a letdown, I think it will be a much more vital place once it is complete. Some patience, OK? Second, compare Atlantic Station to what would have been built on that site 15 years earlier. It would have been a single use - either office park, shopping mall, or apartment complex - and it would have been hostile to pedestrians.
If you really want to see intown mixed-use design as it should be, check out Glenwood Park. That development sets a standard for what this city could become…and it’s on the Beltline.
By lynn
January 15, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
BPJ - I completely agree that there’s no reason anyone should attack the other. We all have our own idea of perfect living and just because one place is not good for one, doesn’t mean it’s not good for another.
By .
January 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
BPJ makes a good point. The area where Atlantic Station is now was major blight. It’s a huge improvement.
However, the shops are a bit Mall-y.
But, it’s walkable. And isn’t there some sort of street market on the weekends?
By Sandy_G
January 15, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Sandy_G was tryin to show how she think SHE’S got the better quality of life.
You know, if I was single and had no kids, I probably would live ITP. When I first moved to Atlanta, you could still buy a single-family home in Cabbagetown for $150,000. But, being married, and having a husband with three kids that lived with their mom OTP, we opted to live close to the kids and their activities. We also opted to live where we could afford to live. My “swim/tennis” neighborhood home cost us $150,000 when we bought it three years ago. We were more focused on getting a lot of house and open space for our money rather than paying through the nose to live in a newer, more prestigious neighborhood with a backyard the size of a postage stamp.
Everyone has different needs, different incomes and different likes and dislikes. We found what we needed and wanted in Gwinnett county. Others might find what they want and need ITP. It doesn’t make one right and one wrong. Frankly, I’m tired of people who live ITP looking down their noses at the rest of us like they’re the enlightened, educated, well-heeled, elite and the rest of us are just a bunch of uneducated slobs living in double-wides.
Atlanta and environs is a great place to live especially when compared to places like Washington, D.C.. When I lived there, the only place I could afford to rent on a secretary’s salary was 50 miles from the city. My commute was 2 hours each way, every day. My other option was to share an apartment in a dicey area of the city with three other people. The cultural offerings were tremendous in the city, but the cost of living was so outrageous, only the upper income workers could ever afford to actually own a home there.
Here in Atlanta, we have jobs and affordable housing and the traffic, although frustrating, is nothing compared to places like D.C., New York or L.A. We have it pretty good here whether you are ITP or OTP. If that weren’t true, then thousands of people from other states and half of Mexico wouldn’t be trying to relocate here.
By .
January 15, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
Sandy_G, I wasn’t disparaging you at all and I apologize if it appeared that way. I was just using you as an example of someone trying to show how their needs and wants were met by the burbs - painting a picture of who you are. It’s not an insult.
I have to say…you should have bought that place in Cabbagetown. It’s be worth $400K by now!
At the end of the day, this article seemed to imply that the city was not an ideal destination for families and that’s simply not true. For many families, it’s VERY ideal. For others, not so much…
By Jim
January 15, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
I moved to Gwinnett in the late 60s or early 70s.
Gwinnett was rural community with no large towns and few sub divisions.
I liked it the way it was.
As I grew older and approached retirement, Gwinnett kept growing and now must have neary 800,000 people and that is about 770,000 more than when I moved to Gwinnett.
The year I retired, I bought property in White County and the day I retired, we poured the footings for our new home.
I now live in a rural county that is very much like the Gwinnett I moved to in the late 60s.
Some like growth and the things that come with it but I want to live in the country and enjoy the environment that goes with it.
Good luck Gwinnett but I do not miss the congestion that comes with growth.
By Wayz
January 15, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
Very happy about a minor league in Gwinnett.
It takes almost as long to drive home (Gwinnett) from a Greenville Drive game as it does from an Atlanta Braves game. Having a ballpark even closer is going to be great.
By John
January 15, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
I perfer to live in a place where the nearest neighbor is about a mile away and I can’t see the road from my house.
By lefty
January 15, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
I live right on the county line of Dekalb and Gwinnett. I love having access to all places this wonderful city has to offer and the diversity of the people. However, $ define where you can live. The city is more accepting of all kinds of people, and I can say that because I attend venues in many places and I feel better when I move around in the city. Glad to have a choice!
By Voice of Reason
January 16, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this
I think Atlanta’s heyday is over for a while. With infrastructure problems, traffic, higher crime rate (an increase I think is just beginning),immigration discord and more…I’m glad I currently live outside the city. My friends in So. Fulton—the la-de-da, trying-to-impress “New” [ ] in Cascade area—can have it. My property value is great; I’m safe; it’s quiet and whatever I need is within 5-10 minutes of my home. I lost friends when I moved north, but WTF. Life is better without them:-); just haters that I don’t follow the crowd. My Cruise Card is rarely hit now, cuz I rarely have a reason to go into town!
By Voice of Reason
January 16, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this
Oh…forgot to say, I do sometimes wish I was in a building complex with a jazz club downstairs, so I could just go listen to oldies /goodies and dance every night if I wanted to. Something like Atlantic Station, but without the crime (from what I hear). I haven’t even been down there—no need.
Lastly, I hate that many black politicians have taken on the wayward patterns of past white politicians(the Pat Swindalls, etc.)I guess power corrupts, regardless.
By Jen
January 16, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
John LOL! You like it so you’re a mile away from the next person and I love the fact that I share my driveway with my nextdoor neighbor and that the only thing separating me from the neighbor on the other side is HIS driveway!
I love looking out my window and seeing the activity.
I also love how my backyard and my neighbor’s backyard are open to each other and the only access to them is through our driveway so our kids can play back there without worrying.
But I can see the appeal in being completely remote.
I think it’s a matter of safety in numbers or on an island….
By John
January 16, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
JEN, there’s plenty of activity up here. I deer, bear and bobcats make regular visits to my yard.
By Jen
January 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
I can’t help it…I’m a people watcher.
I have a friend who has a log cabin with a lake and she raises exotic animals. I like it out there too…
By Bruce Wicox
January 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
I moved to Gwinnett back in 93 when it was still under 100,000, I loved it. A few blocks in any direction would be large stands of trees, now they’re strip malls in front of cookie-cutter developements. Before you could cross the highways, now it would be suicide, traffic is gridlock. It’s not the same Gwinnett.
I moved from the city up North which I also loved, you could walk everywhere the neighborhood grills like Cheers where everyone really did know your name, bakeries, meat shops and great ethnic foods.
The next move will be a hard choice, either in-town and walking or a log cabin in the woods, maybe the beach, I know I’ll enjoy where ever I end up.
What I don’t like is getting shafted by our commissioners, down here when you talk subway it’s how the commissioners sneak a muti-million dollar project pass the residents. Pick out trash service, tax our rain and now they decide we all love baseball to the tune of $40 million to start.
Crooked politics is not limited to the city.
By adam
January 16, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Atlanta may not be New York, but compared to gwinnet it’s a whole different cultural world. Indie artists, non-chain restaurants, musicians that are worth seeing live and sense of place that’s priceless.