Home > Gwinnett > Rick Badie / My Opinion > Archives > 2007 > September > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.US“Laborers Not Having Much Luck These Days”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Times sure have changed on the boulevard.
Jimmy Carter Boulevard, that is.
There was a time day laborers would practically hop into my truck bed as soon as I pulled into the Dunkin Donuts located next door to the U-Haul store.
I junked that truck, after 280,000 miles, and bought a car. I stopped by the doughnut shop Wednesday to witness a scene entirely different compared with years past.
And it wasn’t because of the car I drove.
Sometimes you don’t need statistics to get the picture. Anecdoctal observations can suffice just fine. So on Wednesday, the Badie Tour stopped by the doughnut shop to find out what’s going on with the day laborers, where they’ve gone.
This particular Dunkin Donuts, as well as the QuikTrip off South Norcross Tucker Road, once teemed with day laborers. You had to walk around them to get inside the business.
Not anymore.
Around 8 o’ clock Wednesday morning, only seven men were looking for work. Most said they’d arrived at the parking lot early that morning but had no luck.
In the mid-1990s, rumor had it that a sign along the Mexican/U.S. border advertised Gwinnett County as the place to go for jobs. Maybe that’s changed. Maybe we aren’t so thirsty for cheap labor to exploit anymore.
I met two Hispanic men Wednesday who offered their perspectives. Sergio Guevara, 38, of El Salvador, and Gustavo Varala, 23, of Mexico.
Day laborers, they told me, are packing up. They’re moving to states like North Carolina, Virginia - returning, even, to their native countries. Crackdowns on illegal immigration and a stalled economy have some leaving the county.
Guevara is a mechanic who’s on the pathway to citizenship, thanks to his wife, a Puerto Rican. His livelihood revolves around the Hispanic community, though, and as of late it’s been tough going.
“In Georgia, so many problems,” said Guevara, who stopped by for a cup of joe. “If you don’t have papers, there’s no work. The people are going because there’s no work. It’s very hard.”
Varala, an illegal immigrant who’s been here two years, says he hasn’t worked in days. “I wouldn’t tell anyone in Mexico to come here,” he told me.
Last year, I wrote a column about illegal immigrants who had made contingency plans in the midst of all the immigration reform rhetoric. If parents were deported, their children were to stay with legal relatives and friends.
So even if the men, and in some cases the women, are indeed leaving Gwinnett, many offspring are staying put.
So many of us view the end of illegal immigration as the magic bullet that will help upright a county that’s operated on warp speed for decades. In truth, the root of many of the quality-of-life issues is due to a region that grew so large, so quickly, seemingly with scant introspection.
No doubt, illegal immigration is an issue. But what’s equally pressing are skyrocketing foreclosures, a loss of housing value in certain ZIP codes, traffic, packed schools and overdevelopment.
You can’t lay those woes on the men looking for work on the boulevard. And now, even some of them are taking flight.
Rick Badie’s column appears on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. Contact him at 770-263-3875 or e-mail rbadie@ajc.com.
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Comments
By Michael H. Smith
September 6, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this
You might want to correct this line Mr. Badie: You can’t lay those woes on the men looking for work on the boulevard.
To: You can’t lay “all” those woes on men from south of the U.S. border who are looking for work on the boulevard.
When it comes to construction and development you’re out of your league with someone who has worked and knows that field of endeavor. Overdevelopment cannot happen without a corresponding oversupply of labor. Trust me on that one my friend, it just doesn’t happen any other way.
Immigration isn’t the only issue but it has played a much larger role than you are anyone at the AJC is willing to admit. Immigration legal and more so illegal immigrations is not the sole proprietor of all social ills, nonetheless, it has played a bigger role than it ever should have been allowed to have taken: in skyrocketing foreclosures, a loss of housing value in certain ZIP codes, traffic, packed schools.
And, when the current President of Mexico makes statements like: Mexico does not end at the border, that wherever there is a Mexican Mexico is there …. Well, my friend, don’t look for any sympathy going forward from many Americans for any Mexican nationals after that declaration out of Mexico saying in as much, that the United States has no sovereignty and our laws are meaningless. That my friend, “is fanning the flames of hatred.”
Finally, I have said that Mexico does not end at the border, that wherever there is a Mexican Mexico is there; this is why the actions of the Government in favor of our migrating countrymen is guided by principles, by the defense and protection of their rights, by prevention for detecting measures that may affect our people and by the professionalism we must offer our co-nationals.
For this reason, we are already using all the resources of our consular network for the benefit of Mexicans abroad. On behalf of the Mexican Government, I again strongly protest the unilateral measures taken by the United States Congress and Government, measures that are making the persecution and humiliating treatment of undocumented Mexican workers worse.
El Presidente’ Felipe Calderón Hinojosa
Mr. Guevara who is on the legal pathway to U.S. citizenship will have a far better go of things if he ditches the Hispanic identity stuff to serve an American community as an American. I think he will find the market much larger and far more lucrative, though, because of the immigration abuses, and the negative impacts from it inflicted upon U.S. citizens, and worse, statements like Mr. Calderón’s are going to make life much more difficult for him.
As to the issues confronting America, in part or in their entirety that can’t be “justly lay” on immigration: Well, it election season again and for me it’s hunting and haunting season on both sides of the political aisle. Immigration will be a major issue on my agenda along with “Fair Trade”, Energy Independence, National Security, Healthcare, our military presence in Iraq, the return to the policy of peace through the combined strength of a strong fiscally responsible economy and a strong – well treated - military. That should suffice the moment for now.
By LT5000
September 6, 2007 7:05 AM | Link to this
Rick,
All you needed to do was take a left on Singleton and head toward the Quik Trip. Still plenty of Illegals hanging out looking for jobs.
Not only have the Illegals given Gwinnet a shabby appearance and a bad name, but we can now add Tuberculosis to the list.
Maybe the crime and health hazards the the Illegals bring to Gwinnett County would be a great topic for an article Mr. Badie.
Or would that be too much like real journalism.
LT5000
By Pam
September 6, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Rick:
I’ve noticed the changes in the illegal population about the beginning of summer. In the city of Lawrenceville, there are big changes. I use to see day laborers all the time, but with what I call “The Big Sweep” by the new mayor, I have not noticed even one, not even one, day laborer.
They are also revitalizing downtown Lawrenceville big time. Pretty soon, there won’t be much low-income housing available. A trailer park is slated to be bulldozed this fall. I noticed new, all brick townhomes starting at 160K right next door to a public housing community. My guess is, that community will be bulldozed within the next 5 to 10 years.
Gwinnett will be changing. I grew up with a father that was into real estate investments and what I see for Lawrenceville are the signs he looks for when considering a prime time to jump on an investment. Lawrenceville is there now. You have to see beyond the clutter.
My guess is, those that have left due to the current conditions and white flight will be trying to get back in after the suspected changes have occured.
By JSC
September 6, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
I say THANK GOD AND AMEN THAT THESE ILLEGALS ARE LEAVING GWINNETT.
About time! And take your TB disease ridden relatives with you back to wherever you came from.
By Bruce Wilcox
September 6, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this
I have noticed a lot of pick-ups sitting idle in driveways during the work week latey, these are the ones who use to be on the road at six in the morning. Can not pay the rent without money is coming in, it may put the slumlords in hard straights.
The slow down had to happen sooner or later, it is too bad it got so out of control in Gwinnett. I remember Texas after the oil bust, you could not rent or sale a place no matter what you offered.
I agree with Pam, those who stuck it out will be rewarded with what we moved here for in the first place.
By Alexis
September 6, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this
Illegal immigrants are the bane of the American existence. Good riddance to the rubish. It is an absolute embarassment that my community, Sugarloaf, with a PGA golf course and gorgeous homes, sits so close to such a nasty ghetto as Gwinnett Place and greater Duluth in general. It’s a shame, and it’s all because of the illegal spanish speaking barrio thug invaders who have ruined quality of life in Gwinnett.
By Kathleen
September 6, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
Alexis, Gwinnett Place was here long before Sugarloaf Country Club. Maybe the developer shouldn’t have put the illegals,living at Gwinnett Place, to work building your beautiful home next to the ghetto.
By Alexis
September 6, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this
Kathleen, it may have predated Sugarloaf CC, however Gwinnett Place was not always the crime ridden area that it is today. The hispanic population, particularly the illegal population, has exploded in that area and has brought with it their lack of morality and their rampant crime and drug use. It is truly a sad, sad shame.
By Crystal
September 6, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this
Kathleen,
Maybe the developers shouldn’t have been money w******* and sold out their fellow Americans by breaking the law and hiring illegals to do the “building”. If the quality of work they produce can actually be called building.
By Crystal
September 6, 2007 6:29 PM | Link to this
the “w” word was whore
By RJ
September 6, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this
There is plenty plenty plenty of low income housing in lawrenceville, as the mexicans leave, if they are, only new and worse problems will move in.
By Katie
September 7, 2007 5:28 AM | Link to this
Hate to break it to you all but migrant labor is needed in this country, especially in the area of agriculture. When you really want to talk seriously with me about this, please address who will fill their shoes? Do you know anyone who will work in fields, bending over, back breaking labor, all day long, every day of their working life— for low wages?? If you can name one single person intersted in that as a career choice please bring it to the table of discussion. Unless you’d like for all your food to be grown in other countries and imported here. You guys really have to look past your neighbors house and look at the big picture.
For the parents out there, can any of you honestly say you are bringing up your child to have any of the following careers?: hotel room cleaners dish washers farm laborer (produce picker) low wage cook
I think not, I think most of you would like for your child to graduate college and move on to something better than what you may have had as a child. Somebody needs to work the above listed jobs. If not your child, then who?
By sm
September 7, 2007 8:56 AM | Link to this
Rj, Where is that plentifuly low income housing you speak of???? Lawrenceville only has about 200 public housing units - the rest of the housing is rented at market rates.
By Crystal
September 7, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
Katie,
First of all, we were talking about “DAY LABOR”. I don’t think any of the guys hanging out in the parking lot are waiting to get a job picking produce. They are given the chance to take “SKILLED” jobs. Some construction workers actually go through a technical program or master builder program (and pay tuition)then do an internship (for low pay) to get the chance to earn the “big bucks” doing back breaking work. That is how most housing used to be built, PROFESSIONALLY. But, now the builders want to line their pockets and not pay skilled people and instead pay low wages for scrubs who can’t even draw a straight line.
Employers of illegals (not migrant workers, those are in a different category) are not passing the savings down to the consumer. They are keeping the difference in the lower wage, workman’s comp, fica, medicaid, and federal and state income taxes in their pocket. Then the rest of us get to pay for the illegals medical bills, etc when they get hurt on the job. Please don’t buy the “we hire illegals to keep your prices low” bullcrap. They hire illegals to make THEIR profit margin higher.
And yes, you’re right. Let’s just exploit these people to do the lowly jobs (sarcasm). It used to be that high schoolers or high school drop outs used to do these ‘careers’. We still have those two groups in this country don’t we? Some folks worked those ‘careers’ as second jobs or some kids need to WORK THEIR WAY THROUGH COLLEGE. Where are they going to get a job as a cook, dish washer, hotel maid if the illegal has already taken it? Or do you think your children are too good to wash dishes for spending money?
By MJK
September 7, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
To M.H. Smith -
I have to question the logic of your statement “Overdevelopment cannot happen without a corresponding oversupply of labor. Trust me on that one my friend, it just doesn’t happen any other way.”
This completely flies in the face of basic economics.
Overdevelopment can happen easily without the corresponding oversupply of labor. Overdevelopment would typically occur as a result of (Over)demand. An increase in the labor supply, but not necessarily an oversupply, would likely result due to an increase in the demand for that supply on the part of the developers.
I’m happy for a slowdown in the amount of new development and construction in Gwinnett. Not because I consider undocumented workers to be the boogeyman, but because I’m hopeful that some focus might be placed on some of the more neglected areas and people coming to Gwinnett might want to put roots down and stay awhile.
By Katie
September 7, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
Crystal, It’s not about working your way through college (and I did that) or making extra cash. Migrant workers (italian, japanese, mexican, irish) have been the driving force behind agriculture for generations (not to mention the railroads, mining and other factory jobs that laid the foundation for our country). If there were high school drop outs or dead heads taking these ‘lowly’ jobs, as you call them, there wouldn’t be jobs for these day laborers to step in and take. I personally don’t refer to them as ‘lowly’ jobs but as jobs in general. And, I don’t frown down upon people that work these jobs. I think they should be respected for working, period. I’d like to see welfare abolished and young women stop spreading their legs and having mulitple children with no education or way to feed their families—but anyways…. Part of the problem is that many people (the generation of young folks these days and many older people) think they should receive caviar wages for hot dog work. Many think they’re too good to work these hard, laborous jobs. They’re too worried about their cell phones, makeup, nails and what their friends might think. Georgia has many farms and if you’ve ever visited one you’d observe what I am speaking of. You complain about paying the medical bills for illegals but you failed to compain about paying welfare and medical insurance for young breeder girls and the health care costs of hard working Americans that don’t make enough money to pay for medical insurance. You should complain about them in addition to the illegals. You also failed to complain about paying for all the people in our prisons. If you look at the big picture, the problems accross our entire country, not just in this great state of Georgia (said sarcastically), you’d see that illegal immigration is not at the top of the list. It may be politically but not finacially. So many people want them all deported but nobody talks about how to go about it or who will cover the cost, or the fact that there’s nobody to replace them. Or, shall I rephrase that, wanting to replace them. Psssst. Many honest companies don’t pay for health insurance for their employees either and they pocket extra profit. That’s legal in this country.
By MJK
September 7, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
Way to go Katie !!!!
Also, a couple of points to consider:
Undocumented employees contribute far more to the government coffers than they take out. (http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1727#4)
The rate of immigration over the past decade or so, pales in comparison to the rate of immigration in the late 19th century.
Finally, click here for a tour of anti-immigration cartoons through the ages:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4790637
Bigotry is apparently a great American tradition.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this
The problem is not that there are migrant workers, nor day laborers. The problem is that these people create crime and ghetto conditions that destroy the property values of those of us with nicer homes. It is embarassing that my home at Sugarloaf is within such a short distance to the slums at Gwinnett Place, and I hate driving friends from out of town through Norcross to get to Downtown Norcross (which, for the moment, is not ghetto) for a bite at the Norcross Station Cafe. It is a shame and if these migrant workers and day laborers would just have some pride in themselves and their homes (often rented, so really someone else’s home) and stop bringing their children up in a culture of drugs, gangs and a lack of respect for the English language; well, then it wouldn’t be so bad having them around. However, as long as they are such ghetto trash and impoverished gutter rats, then they need to go.
By Sorry for Alexis
September 7, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Alexis, you sound like a Sugarloaf snob for sure. My goodness, I don’t know how somebody from your neighborhood could know so many migrant workers and day laborers well enough to know that they don’t have pride in their homes, that they create crime and ghetto conditions … My personal thought is that if somebody is a “worker” and “laborer” that they are probably NOT contributing to the crime problem - it’s probably those that are not working that are the problems. I’m so sorry that your friends have to see the slums that the poor people live in (I’m sure you do your part to help those people make a better life, right?). Maybe you should move … or maybe someday you will have some misfortunes in your life and have to live somewhere “embarrassing” … And by the way, who are you to judge others? I guess you’re perfect - everyone who lives in Sugarloaf is … oh, except that Madam lady - that had to be embarrasing too… I’m so sorry for you - not because of what you have to drive by, but because of who you are. I hope God doesn’t judge you the same way you are judging these people that you don’t know.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
Do my part to help them make a better life? What would be “my part”? I did not ask them to come here, I did not volunteer to raise their children and it is an insult that my tax money already funds their welfare programs. I think that alone is more than “doing my part”. I do not owe them anything other than digust and disdain which I give to them freely. It would be they who owe us, true Americans, repayment for the lost value of property all across the county, repayment for wasted tax dollars ill spent on liberal welfare programs, and most importantly they owe us the respect of either becoming legal citizens or getting the hell out of our country.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
I live in Sugarloaf and I have pride and I think people who live in slums don’t have pride. I have to drive my friends past slummy areas that aren’t Sugarloaf in order to go out to lunch in parts of town that I don’t think are slummy. I think that a PGA golf course like Sugarloaf shouldn’t be so close to Pleasant Hill because slummy people from other countries who don’t have pride and should just go back to those countries because my tax money shouldn’t have to pay for their slummy children. By the way I live in Sugarloaf.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
Pitiful attempt at satire from the person who would pretend to be me. Touch a nerve, did I?
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
To MJK
I don’t have to question the lack your logic or even your need of common sense to dispense with the very obvious absence of construction knowledge that has been applied.
Nice try on twist and shout here:
This completely flies in the face of basic economics.
Overdevelopment can happen easily without the corresponding oversupply of labor. Overdevelopment would typically occur as a result of (Over)demand. An increase in the labor supply, but not necessarily an oversupply, would likely result due to an increase in the demand for that supply on the part of the developers.
To cut through the chase, MJK, if you think you can build a house or a strip mall based on your “increased demand” and “only on your personal labor and that demand, absent any increased labor, as the army of one”, then please invite me as one of the first to watch that economically demanding circus.
Your statement is ridiculous. Best cut your losses before this becomes more embarrassing for you. The economic and psychical reality of man-hours required reflected in amount of labor needed to complete a finished built product has changed very little in the construction industry from the days of the Pharaohs to the present, where men still do most of the work that machines cannot accomplish. The more you build the more men you will need to complete development.
By TJ
September 7, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
Bottom line is everyone suffers because of our failure to control all of the borders. One can’t help but notice how our county has changed in the last 5 years. Largely is due to the illegal population.
They do not respect our laws, our country, our culture. Personally I’m just tired of the problems they bring. I’m sorry but I hope they do move elsewhere and give us a chance to clean up the mess they’ve made.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Just having a little fun here bloggers…
From the Washington Post ~
Foreclosure Wave Bears Down on Immigrants Economic Success Story Turns Sour as Thousands May Face Losing Homes
Immigrants are emerging as among the first victims of a growing wave of home foreclosures in the Washington area as mortgage lending problems multiply locally and across the country.
Nationally, 375,000 high-interest-rate loans were made to Hispanics in 2005, and nearly 73,000 of them are likely to go into foreclosure, said Aracely Paname?o, director of Latino affairs for the Center for Responsible Lending. About 1.1 million homes in the United States are expected to go into foreclosure in the next six years, and many native-born Americans are likely to be stuck with burdensome loans. But immigrants are getting hit first in part because their incomes tend to be lower and many have lost construction jobs.
Just have too much fun here bloggers…
From the AJC according to the HMIC Jim Wooten
There’s bound to be a dark cloud behind the silver lining good news that the percentage of Georgians living in poverty dropped slightly. Ah, yes, here it is: “We are one of the high-poverty, high-uninsured states,” responded Alan Essig of the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute, a group that advocates more social spending. “Many are struggling,” he said, while “the economy is supposedly booming.” That old liberal staple. The real story, as Newsweek columnist Robert J. Samuelson reported, is that America is importing poverty. Between 2000 and 2006, the number of poor Hispanics increased from 6 million to 9.2 million. Among whites and blacks, poverty declined.
What in the holy Be-Jesus is America coming to Mr. Wooten, when America can no longer produce enough poverty that we must import it in any which way we can?
Oh, one last question Mr. Wooten, is Cynthia a serving board member of the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute as the HLIC?
By MJK
September 7, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Michael,
Not sure in which “psychical” reality you dwell, but I’m not concerned with my own embarrassment.
By MIchael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Nor are you concerned much with the truth MJK.
By Crystal
September 7, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Katie,
Again, Rick was not talking about migrant workers nor past legal immigrants and how they laid foundations for our country.
He was referring to DAY LABOR. And according to the article there was a LEGAL guy also waiting for work. It is also illegal even if you are legal in this country to work under the table.
Day labor to me means painters, roofers, framers, drywallers, cleaning crews, etc. They are waiting in parking lots to be picked up to work illegally in this country. Whether you like it or not there are laws in this SOVEREIGN country. So everyone needs to decide are we going to be a SOVEREIGN nation with borders and laws or an employment agency?
Rick was also not talking about girls having babies and the general welfare system. He was talking about day laborers and where they congregate does not look pretty. I bet that none of the people picking up these illegals to work have an ad in the AJC listing jobs available. Why should they when they can get a couple of workers for a couple of days and pay them under the table?
The only reason I didn’t complain about paying for welfare and welfare babies is because that wasn’t the subject of the article. When Rick writes an article about that, then I will respond. But, illegals also fall into the young breeder category. They are called anchor babies.
PSST: the reason why not paying for health insurance for an employee is not illegal is because it is considered a BENEFIT (just like a 401K), not a tax. But, workman’s comp. is a TAX that is required by law for any employer to pay if they have more than 3 employees. That is to cover any employee hurt on the job. If the day laborer is working this way, he/she is not covered medically and the employer is pocketing the money ILLEGALLY.
Also, according to Rick’s article DAY LABORERS seem to not be getting the jobs like before. So, to me that means they must be some legal workers available somewhere to replace them. Either that or the market is just slowing down.
MJK: Did the study include ESOL and free/reduced lunch? Gwinnett county alone spends $33 million dollars a year just for ESOL.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
Any money spent by our government on this riff raff should be taken from the official’s paychecks and handed back to the tax payers. I am sickened that these illegal immigrants can come here, destroy our quality of life, demoralize our children and create crime and havoc and be rewarded for it with liberal welfare programs. It is tantamount to terrorism. I say the War On Terror needs to be expanded out of Iraq and we need to start declaring war on the countries who allow their citizens to invade our great nation and destroy it’s economy by trading in day labor, drug trafficing, and stealing tax payer money through welfare programs. If we can get the Democrats out of Congress, perhaps we can get rid of our immigrant problem by allowing Homeland Security to actually do it’s job — and ammend the Patriot Act to cover illegals as a source of terrorism.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Possibly more cona-ri-buuutions (sic) from the immigrants, perhaps illegal?
Police make fake dentistry bust Lawrenceville woman, two men arrested
Details surrounding the arrests are sparse.
GDP
PS. MJK I did mean “psychical”(Outside the sphere of physical science) but you can add “physical” to the referred statement in question as well, to whatever is affecting or influencing your mind in overruling your cognition.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
Ah if only getting the Democrats out of Congress would solve the immigration problem. It will take getting a good number of Republicans out of Congress and probably retiring some judges from the bench as well, Alexis.
There are only three candidates running for President to put any confidence in for real honest pro-American immigration reform and only two of them are for dead certain.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Michael - I disagree. Once we get the corruption of the Democrats out of Washington we can get back to running this country correctly. The Republican way. Pro-Business values and traditional family values. I agree however that we do need to remove several judges from the bench, starting with the left side of the Supreme Court. Activist judges who legislate from the bench are part of the problem.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Alexis - I respect your right to disagree as well as your opinion but you just gave every Democrat the very issue they have been salivating over in hopes it would be brought up - corruption.
The Republicans have become too pro-business (in the very uncanny unscrupulous sense of that term) and this has caused many of them to forsake the conservative roots that once buoyed them to the sense of fair play, fair trade, fair immigration, fair fiscally sound taxation and in very point of fact, fairness to the truth with the American people.
I will remain more so than ever Independent and more TR Progressive Moose than Taft Regressive Elephant, until the day that Party of old Indian killer Abe repents back to the trust busting, cleaning out of corruption, peace through strength initiatives once they exhibited in a fiscally responsible manner.
But I’m with you all the way on cleaning out corruption and let the new broom sweep wherever it may; and out, whomever it must.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this
Michael, you make good points, and yes the Republican party has it’s problems — I like to think if we could get the neo-cons out of our party and get back to the true roots, as you so eloquently defined them, then this country would finally be on the right track socially, economically and politically and we would return to where we belong, the center spotlight on the world stage.
By MJK
September 7, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
Michael - you pull a dictionary definition from Google, but it doesn’t clarify the context. Of course, many of your postings seem to be pulled from your manifesto.
Alexis - you need to cut back on drinking the Rush O’Hannity Kool-Aid.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
MJK - really, do you honestly believe in your heart that what I say is wrong? How could you even suggest such a thing with a straight face. The liberalism in this country is rampant and is destroying the moral fabric of our once great society. Rome, Greece, Babylon, Macedonia…great societies destroyed by liberal influence. Illegal immigration is a terroristic threat to our national security and one that is ignored by liberals who welcome the invading hordes with open arms. It will lead to our downfall if we don’t stop it soon. The illegal immigration problem is creating a tide of crime, drugs, gang violence, and unspeakable acts of headonism.
By MJK
September 7, 2007 5:46 PM | Link to this
Alexis -
How was ancient Greek society brought down by liberal influence?
How do you explain Republican politicians that preach traditional family values from a bully pulpit only to be outed trying to proposition a police officer in an airport bathroom or sending sexually explicit messages to minor?
Which judges on the left side of the Supreme Court need to removed, and why?
What are examples of activist judges legislating from the bench?
I believe what you say is wrong.
Primarily because you paint with a broad brush and don’t provide any concrete facts.
I stated earlier that independent research on the subject shows that undocumented workers contribute more than they take away and provided a link so that anyone that thought I was full of it could see for him/herself.
By Alexis
September 7, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this
The Greeks became a province of Rome when the Roman rule coquered the Helenistic society, thus the fall of Greece was tied to the fall of Rome.
Ginsburg, Breyer….if they lean left, they need to go.
Legislating from the bench? ROE V. WADE ring a bell?
I think that sums it up.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this
And where did you get your manifesto MJK, from the open borders lobby anti- American sovereignty, CATO institute? Perhaps you should try pulling-up the fullness of your real name if you can find it. Nice attempt at another try again at drab clownishness.
I get my information like anyone else and form opinions just the same. Sometimes from life experiences that flies in the face of known nothing novices, who for no better reason than their support of illegal aliens unlawfully in this country, will try to convince me and others that I shouldn’t believe my lying eyes and neither should anyone else.
I seriously doubt your link. I can call the Heritage Foundation independent and the Center for Immigration Studies independent that repudiate everything you and your link have said. Biases are always brought to the table no matter who sits in judgment.
Given all biases and my life experiences on present immigrations, legal and illegal, I’ll stick with what my lying eyes tell me.
And, I’ll take you to task on this one and give you a case issue:
Which judges on the left side of the Supreme Court need to removed, and why?
In the courts Eminent Domain decision, it was clearly the left that made that bad liberal judgment in “removing property owner protections” and Ruth Bader Ginsburg would top the liberal list, in to be removed.
By Bruce Wicox
September 7, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this
The Heritage Foundation independent, that has to be one of your best kines yet Mr.Smith, you never fail to amuse.
A Court that appoints a President over State Rights that are clearly spelled out in the Constitution, you can not get any more conservative than that.
I’ll be packing for my vacation now Mr. Smith, hope the ghosts of posts past do not return.
By Michael H. Smith
September 7, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
You should pack your bags for a very long vacation after laying that egg, Mr. Wilcox.
Thanks for the cackle.
By Crystal
September 7, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
MJK-
Looked at your website, didn’t see any numbers to go along with what they were saying. Just said that a few Americans are harmed my illegal immigration but the majority of Americans are actually helped by illegal immigration.
Oh, that’s rich. Good thing you didn’t fall into the category of those that are not harmed, eh? I guess if just a few are harmed we should just continue on. Well, how many would it take being harmed before we say enough? Oh, they didn’t give that number either in the article.
I have to wonder if they included free lunches and schools paying for ESOL in to mix. Gwinnett county alone pays 33 million dollars just to teach their kids how to speak English!! Right off the top of their taxes is 33 MILLION DOLLARS. Yep, those dish washers and roofers are making the big bucks to make up that bill. They got so much money left over, they sends BILLIONS back to Mexico. And for every study you show they contribute more than they use, I got one that say they use up $2700 more than they contribute.
And whose social security numbers are they contributing all of this money that they don’t get back? What a nightmare for the the ones who had their numbers stolen. I wonder if they are counted in the “few Americans who are hurt by illegal immigration”?
By Crystal
September 7, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this
Oh my God, here is a section that MLK referenced:
Legitimate concerns about the impact of immigration on the poorest Americans should not be addressed by penalizing even poorer immigrants. Instead, we should promote policies, such as improving our education system, that enable Americans to be more productive with high-wage skills.
We must not forget that the gains to immigrants coming to the United States are immense. Immigration is the greatest anti-poverty program ever devised. The American dream is a reality for many immigrants who not only increase their own living standards but who also send billions of dollars of their money back to their families in their home countries—a form of truly effective foreign aid.
Are you kidding me? That has got to be a joke. It basically says forget about the poor in your own country, give the immigrants the jobs so they can end their poverty and give money back to the country from which they came!!!!!
MLK- if this is where you form your opinions from you are seriously living in the wrong country. How can you go along with the creed of stab your fellow countrymen in the back? Oh, that’s right you don’t fall into the small percentage of those Americans who are harmed by illegal immigration.
By Michael H. Smith
September 8, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this
I hate to break this to you Katie but our food is being grown in other countries and imported here already, it has been for quite some time. Looking past a house of cards argument in seeing the big picture of high school dropouts in this country, people without degrees, people with felony convictions and your willingness to forfeit the jobs that most of them will have to rely on (construction, hotel room cleaners and other hospitality jobs, service jobs, low wage cooks, food processing and meat packers etc.) just to get by if they can get them, to illegal immigrants tells me it will probably be a very limited short discussion.
In the flat world economy of globalization there will be more victims than victors, even among the very highly educated. We don’t need the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country, where the number of “legal immigrants” has readily surpassed our needs to remain vibrant as a nation.