Rick Badie / My Opinion

By cheney

July 19, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

You DON’T GET IT?!Do ya? Moore’s film isn’t about showing you oh so bore with statistic what’s the TAX rate is duh?? It is for the congress, the PEOPLE’S elected to do the job for us! To benefit us the PEOPLE!!With those info!! And congress is, dare I say bought by big corporation? His film, show it in layman term, a middle class couple what is their life about…being middle class and in a SOCIALIZED system. And it ain’t bAd at all getting to travel and don’t worry about the debts and the bankrupts and moving into their childrens home that you just mention oh so afraid about.

You can find the money to kill people, you can find money to help people!!

God bless America!!

By Lex Luthor

July 19, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Do you really want the same group of people who can’t secure the southern border to run you healthcare? There is no such thing as free health care. If your employeer gives it to you, they only do so after cutting it out of your check behind the scenes. Just like for every dollar in Social Security and Medicare tax you see deducted from your check there is another deducted behind the scenes. You employeer can’t just magically come up with Health Insurance money.

Speaking of that money, the average plan offered through an employeer is much more expensive than private health insurance. I pay about $150 a month for medical and dental. No I don’t have $20 co-pays and have a $3000 deductable. Your group rate provided through your company is usually much higher though. Try closer to $300 a month. (Remeber that you don’t see all of the cost in your check, if any at all) So thats $1500 a year I save by providing my own coverage. So unless I get sick to the point where I have to spend the dedutable every two years then I come out ahead.

I have relatives that live in a country that does have socialized medicine. They also allow private pratice. My aunt: “Anyone that has any money uses private doctors. The public system is a joke.”

Speaking of Sicko, Moore has no room to talk. Homeboy is about a cheese burger and a fry away from a hearattack himself. Why should I have to pay taxes to take care of his sorry grass?

Plus we already have free medicine, or haven’t you been paying attention to your own paper? Grady is about to go broke because of all of the free (unpaid) health care they have to give by law.

If you really want social health care, move to Toronto. Get on a 6 month waiting list. Pay around 31% income taxes. (See, its not free, its FORCED) Or, you could move to another social medicine country like Germany and pay around 51% income taxes.

By Jill

July 19, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Well said Lex.

By Lily Toad

July 19, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Lex, why don’t you complain about all the taxes going to kill people in Iraq? Wouldn’t our tax dollars be better spent providing health care? Raise my taxes, but do it for something necessary — like health care.

By Merle

July 19, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

My friend saw the film in Winnipeg. Nurses get in free. The theatre was packed. There are 3 theatres in Winnipeg showing this movie, each 4 times a day. That equals 12 times a day that this movie is shown in Wpg. Times 4 days…equals 48 showings that nurses have packed the theatres. …..hmmmm
It has the medical staff talking here…….apparently the movie is the major point of discussion at coffee and lunch breaks.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 19, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Health insurance and drug prices have grown three times the rate of inflation yearly for the last 12 years, or when the Republicans took over Congress, coincidence? We pay the highest prices for drugs and they wail it is for research when they spend more on ads. The private system is nothing more than a profit machine for stockholders.

Plus this high quality health service we have ranked twenty-ninth in the world. There has to be some balance a combination of private and government.

To those who say do you want this government controling health services, remember it is the same one wasting billions losing the war in Iraq.

By Reba

July 19, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Under government health care, if a woman doesn’t go every year for her mammogram as recommended, will the government doctors send a police car to escort her to get one? Will all persons over 50 be required to get a colonoscopy and escorted in a police cruiser if they choose not to do so? Will overweight people be subject to having their pantries checked for fattening foods? Do we face jail time if we don’t lose weight as our government doctor instructed? Do we face jail time we don’t stop smoking?

Think this can’t happen? If your child goes to public school, you’ll wind up in court if your child misses too many school days. This is from Parklane Elementary School’s Parent hand book, relative to educational neglect. Imagine what we’ll go through if we miss our child’s yearly checkup.

“The People Involved in Your Case

 The judge presides over the hearing and makes all the decisions.  The probation officer sets up the court hearing and makes recommendations to the judge. After the hearing, the probation officer will make sure that you and your child follow the judge’s orders.  The school social worker tells the court about your child’s school attendance and performance. S/he also talks about how much you have worked with the school to improve your child’s attendance record.  A caseworker from the Department of Family and Children Services (DFCS) tells the judge about your child’s home life.  You (the parent or guardian) go to the hearing to answer the judge and attorney’s questions and to hear the judge’s decision.  Your attorney represents you. Parents who come to court for educational neglect hearings have a right to an attorney, and the court must provide attorneys for parents who can’t afford to hire one themselves. The court appoints two attorneys if the mother and father’s interests conflict.  Your child must come to the hearing to listen and answer any questions.”

Sounds like fun, doesn’t it? Do you really want to bring this type of government control to health care?

By geoff

July 19, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Canadians owe Michael Moore a huge vote of thanks. He has probably singlehandedly saved our medical system from the clutches of the HMO’s and their libertarian, neo-con lobbyists. It’ll be nearly impossible for a duly elected Canadian government to actively dismantle the fair and equitable system we have now. We may pay slightly higer taxes, but our health insurance costs are much lower and we have the peace of mind of knowing that health care is there when we need it. It puzzles me that so much of US government spending goes to the economic and military needs of foreign powers while basic needs of it’s own citizens are under-funded. Case in point, the child health bill gets vetoed so that the money can be spent on ????

By JR

July 19, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

I do believe we need a change. Big business does also, with cost rising at alarming rates as Bruce points out, Business are now feeling the pinch as we become less and less competitive in the global market place. That said I am neither in favor of “socialized” plans nor anyone getting health care for free or a 100% free market plan. We need Affordable healthcare plans which allow the end user to choose which one fits their life stile and/or wallet. If I can afford higher deductibles yet would like more choices at the points of service there should be a plan for me. That said certain things should be standardized and/or computerized to help drive down the cost (similar to what Newt Gingrich is proposing) The government should look at some form of Nationalized catastrophic coverage that everyone would have to pay for (similar to what John Kerry proposed in the last election) This would drive cost down because health insurers would have a safety net. If the best minds “Medical and Political” would get together butting all interest groups aside we could fix this problem. What we are all looking for is an affordable way to have quality healthcare. No free lunches no matter your income level and choice. The more I pay in the more choice I should have. That might sound hard to some liberals (which I call myself) but it is the USA culture. Remember I did not say the less I make the less quality of care I get. Families should decide for themselves what level of choice they would like and how much they are willing sacrifice for that choice. Upon making that decision they should have an affordable plan waiting for them. For my self I have already raised my children and having a lot of choice at the point of care in not that important but would have been 15 years ago but as I get older I might change my mind and if I am willing to come out of pocket that choice should be there for me to make. Who knows this might drive the medical community to educate an offer higher serves at more affordable prices. Which leads to another “Newt” idea and that is to have some web based accountability for doctors and Hospitals. It seems some of us are paying a premium price for care put not getting it. “Ever try and see the success rate of hospitals”

What we need is a balanced plan that uses the best of the free market and benefits of centralized one provider plan that has built in accountability “CHOICE”

By MJK

July 19, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Before you start getting uptight about how inefficient the government would be in operating the healthcare system, pay attention to the (very low) 2% administrative/operating costs associated with Medicare.

According to the New England Journal of Medicine in 1999, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada.

It appears that the US Government can be more efficient than private industry and the Canadian government.

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Universal Healthcare system (The Democrat liberal’s solution, basically expanding Medicare, Medicaid,and SCHIP on steroids) probably will never fix all that ails or cover all the ills of this nation’s citizens and the tax burden would be prohibitive. But Universal accessible affordable individual healthcare has a very good probability in approaching perfection. Getting Government and Business out of healthcare and returning the control of healthcare back to the individual, with means in place to fund healthcare insurance and – or direct purchase of medical care is the key.

Newt Gingrich had a few ideas, so does Duncan Hunter but far more than that will have to be done in order to give every U.S. Citizen beyond their own means (and I did mean to say only U.S. Citizens) the ability to finance in total the costs of all their healthcare needs for life.

No Michael Moore, there really isn’t a Santa Clause and absolutely nothing is FREE. Sanjay Gupta seriously took Moore’s satirical musings so-called documentary apart.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/15/moore.gupta/index.html

By Bella

July 19, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

Universal health care in America may not be the solution. But we do need a solution—and fast. So until you can come up with something better, quit shooting the messenger Michael Moore. The Bible says to stop pointing out the splinter in your brother’s eye when there’s a 2X4 in yours.

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this

Michael Moore has nothing. My vision is fine thank you.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 19, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Mr. Smith where can I find this Liberal Democratic plan you speak of or is this just your usual bravado? As far as Doc Gupta, he had to admit, not only his mistake, but Moores movie displayed correctly the serious situation we now find ourselfs in.

When we have at 45 million Americans without any health insurance while insurance and drug companies are reaping in record profits something has to be done.

By M3C

July 19, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

Michael Moore has continued to do his reasearch, siting way more than just one arena. His films don’t “glorify” anything, they simply represent the FACTS of what is happening. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but when you’re shown facts and you call them lies, then your simply uneducated. If your IQ is somewhere, where a few of these commentors are, it explains what’s wrong with this country. People are stupid, and they only believe what their television (lobiest’s) want shown. We should fight for our freedoms, and shout out the injustices. That is all Michael Moore does. It’s just scary to those who only know to believe what the news says or their favorite rag. Wake up people, and face the fact. We need desperate change. His, or a new some new idea, but at least he tries to make a change. What are you doing?

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 9:15 PM | Link to this

Michael Moore is “citing” fuzzy facts. But that is fine. Some us of simply know the truth and have for a very long, long time, predating et la Michael Moore.

What are you doing?

Probably more than you. But that’s fine too.

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wilcox look at Clinton, Obama, Edwrads, etc. they all have universal “BIG GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE PLANS” - socialized medicine.

The number of so-called uninsured, since we’re back to talking about IQ’s, - peanuts - is actually closer to 47 million in number. Uninsured, is not a totally accurate term either, because there is indigent care - more taxpayer bought government insurance only in a different often more expensive form.

I’m well aware and have been longer than you think, “about something has to be done”. I’ve written numerous times on this issue and will again pick-up this agenda in the coming months ahead in hopes to defeat your lousy lying liberals candidates for President.

The last thing anyone should want is Government healthcare - a.k.a. socialized medicine. And smart people would like to get rid of business sponsored healthcare too, before they actually lose it altogether.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 19, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

So as usual you have no idea or can not present one plan put forth by the so-called Liberal Democrats, just another uninformed talking head.

If I recall correctly it was Bush and the Republicans that expanded Medicare with the Drug company give away. It was such a bonus to the drug companies the Republican Congressman who was floor manager for the bill gave up his seat and now works for a neat million a year to lobby for who else but the Drug companies.

The discussion between you and I is now over Mr. Smith, you have become a complete bore.

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Good. I do so dislike ignorance when one cannot look at what has been presented.

Bush has been wrong about many things but then again, he is no conservative. Drug re-importation is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg with Mr. Free Trade isolationist protectionist Big Pharma Bush.

Just as well, though, you have nothing to present but your usual claptrap: thus says Brucie.

Good-bye.

By Bill

July 19, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

Where in the Constitution does it say I have to pay for someone’s health care? The Federal Government should not be a social net. If individual states want to fine.

By Michael H. Smith

July 19, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t say anything in the Constitution to force you to pay for anyone’s healthcare or should you do so through the States. But do read the Declaration of Independence and how it pertains to unalienable rights. How, liberals and conservatives differ on the issue of rights.

Liberals think government gives-grants you your rights and should provide for those rights.

Conservatives think you are born with your rights and government is to only secure-protect those rights. It is up to the individual to exercise the freedoms, liberties and pursuits of happiness contained in those secured-protected rights.

More on this later: It’s beddie-bye time.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 19, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution refers to the “general welfare” thus: “The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States…”

It also started with the First Amendment according to some with freedom of religion, churches in the early days took care of the general welfare of “The People” and because of that were not taxed.

By Dennis

July 20, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

We need single-payer, universal healthcare. NOW!

By Charles P

July 20, 2007 3:53 AM | Link to this

Michael Moore and ALL HOLLYWOOD celebrities are LIEING to America, about EVERYTHING!!! They have always had an agenda that is to grab as much power as they can, using any method they want. Even using assassinations, armed thugs, and criminal organizations to beat up 7 year old children to steal movie and television show ideas! You people in Atlanta know this, as many of you, in the late 1990’s, went around helping Hollywood to try and steal ideas from me!!!! Many of you laughed at me for being ripped off, while others actually were dumb enough to think that I would voluntarily help those rich COMMUNISTS! If any of you KNEW the large number of murders/rapes/child molestations that HOLLYWOOD COMMITS each year, you would mess your pants. And then they try to pretend to be decent by having shows like “Dateline” arrest a bunch of online phedophiles. WHY don’t the ever lock up HOLLYWOOD child molesters??? They give Hollywood perverts Academy Awards (Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, etc.). WAKE UP AMERICA!!! IGNORE HOLLYWOOD AND START FINDING WAYS TO PUT CELEBRITIES IN PRISON!!!

By Dan

July 20, 2007 8:11 AM | Link to this

Clearly anyone who thinks Moore is quoting facts is the uneducated one. Even the leftist news org CNN called him on the carpet. Those who bemoan that business owns the country are also clearly uneducated about economics, consider this quote by Ayn Rand “America’s abundance was created not by public sacrifices to “the common good,” but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America’s industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance — and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way.” Ayn Rand The positive aspects of those systems Moore espouses as ideals are made possible by the capitalistic engine that is the US. Without the science and technology our country provides, the other countries might have “free” (what a misnomer) healthcare that consisted of alchemists and leeches. If you believe in something, you must believe in all the things necessary for it to be true.

By Wango tango

July 20, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

What Michael Moore, the hero of socialist liberals, forgot to tell everyone is the downside to a government run health care system. Did Mr. SiCkO visit a VA hospital or base military hospital? Of course not. Did Mr. SiCkO talk about all the Canadians who come across the border for things like gall bladder surgery and cat scans because the backlog and wait is so long up there for services? Of course not. Only about 16% of the US population has no health care plan. Of that, perhaps at least a third could afford one if they wanted to pay the premiums instead of spending money on plasmas, 21” rims, booze, concert tickets, $250 shoes, and on and on. Only a fascist liberal would support destroying a system that 84% of Americans use and for the most part are happy with for a government run bureaucratic nightmare [yes, there are some problems with the current market based system; nothing is perfect]. If any moron out there who would support such a thing thinks that lines are long now, wait until the waiting rooms are clogged with idiots who show up for an ingrown toenail, cut finger, headache, runny nose, and God knows what else that could be remedied at home..all because it’s “free” health care. You hysterical liberals have NO idea what you are wishing for.

By Moore Sucks

July 20, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

Michael Moore is a liar. He likes to stir up trouble with his propaganda and lies. Universal healthcare SUCKS. We need healthcare reform, but not a universal plan that will raise my taxes for mostly illegal imagrants who can not afford it. There are many options out there and having wellfare for everything is not the answer.

By Charles

July 20, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this

Bruce Wilcox wrote:

“Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution refers to the “general welfare” thus: “The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes,…”

Does “general welfare” also mean free housing, free food, free haircuts, free transportation, free higher education, free life insurance, free day care, free clothing, and free corrective eyewear prescriptions? After all, that’s a part of a person’s general welfare too. Leave it to the Leninista Liberals to decide what should be “free” for everyone; they want us all to be equally miserable under government mandates and have government run cradle to grave lifestyles. And you thought Liberal Democrats were all about freedom of choice? Hah!

By shark phen

July 20, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Dan 8:11am, great post. When people think like that, it makes you wonder what kind of nonsense is being taught in our schools nationwide. They are turning out great little socialist and anti-capitalist mind bots.

By Katharine

July 20, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

Sicko does a good job of showing how corrupt the insurance industry and the government are, but he neglects to tell people that Medicare is the US equivalent of national health coverage for the elderly. Everyone knows what a mess Medicare is. Medicare is insurance, not health care. You don’t get value for your money with insurance. If the US spent that money directly on services instead of insurance, health care costs would plummet, and it would be affordable to the average joe.

By Katharine

July 20, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Also, the US is not a rich country, not anymore. The government is bankrupt, as evidenced by the national debt. We need to learn how to make better use of what we have and quit borrowing against an uncertain future.

By red

July 20, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

Bruce, how do you reconcile Article 1 Section 8 with the 10th Amendment?

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

By red

July 20, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

The current system is NOT insurance, it is a payment plan.

Insurance is for unexpected circumstances.

Imagine if every time you needed an oil change or new tires, your auto insurance paid. How expensive would auto insurance be? On top of that, they had to process the bill from the oil change place and negotiate a rate with them also.

By KC

July 20, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Did you people actually see Sicko? The movie was not about the millions of people without health insurance. It was about those of us who have insurance, but can’t get the insurance companies to actually let us use our coverage when it’s needed.

I think the most shocking thing for me when watching the movie was seeing how insurance companies do everything possible to deny claims and avoid actually paying for medical services, but they are steadily collecting premiums. The woman whose daughter died because the hospital wouldn’t treat her because she had Kaiser insurance and didn’t go to a Kaiser facility broke my heart. There is something wrong in this country where people pay for a service, and expect to be able to use that service when they need it, but are denied the ability to use it by the person who is supposed to be supplying it.

If we can fix that, then maybe we can focus on some kind of national healthcare plan. But lets fix what we have first, and that begins with holding insurance companies accountable for taking care of the people who are paying them outrageous premiums for coverage every month.

By concerned

July 20, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

LEX LUTHER - Where is private healthcare insurance cheaper than employer provided health insurance? Please tell me and I will try to come up with the money to buy it. Let me give you an example of the “Private Healthcare Insurance” we had as a self employed small (mom & pop) business. Our rate was $600.00 per month for two adults and a child. All of whom were healthy. My husband was involved in a motorcycle accident just over a year ago(three years into this policy). By the grace of God he only had several broken ribs, two of those were broken in two places, a third degree seperation of his shoulder, banged up knee, and tons of road rash. When we started getting medical bills we found we were sold an emergency medical plan only. Because he was seen in the ER and not admitted to the hospital the insurance company paid a PPO reduction (only of a very small percentage of the hospital bill) and 0% of any of the ambulance transport, ER doctor bills, radiology, MRI’s, other doctor bills, and therapy bills we are now in debt to around $10,000.00. He spent the next 6 mos. out of work and we cannot now afford any medical insurance. I don’t speak insuranceese language so I had to trust the agent sent to us by the insurance company when we purchased this plan. We were not the only ones nailed by this salesman. We found out after all of this that he had been fired 3 months after we were sold to. Were we ever notified or questioned by this company? NO! Would I pay higher taxes for universal coverage? He!! yes.

By lovelyliz

July 20, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

I am an educated, fully employed, relatively healthy adult who get health insurance through my employer. I currently pay in one week for insurance what I paid 5 years ago for an entire month. I have higher deductibles and less care. Pay more but get less. The 2 prescriptions I am supposed to take had co-pays that cost me $20 back then. Now they run me $75-120 and no, there are no generic alternatives. When $$$ is tight, I simply don’t renew those prescriptions.

I don’t live in a huge house. I don’t own an iPod. My one only television is 15 years old. I drive a 5 year old car that I bought used and paid cash for.

Our health care system works great for those who have the $$$ to afford it. For the rest of us, the majority of whom are good, honest, hard working, and productive, this very same system is failing. Something has to be done. It seems to me that UHC wouldn’t increases taxes so much if the money spent on insurance went into the system and nothing would prevent those who wanted to buy private insurance themselves. At the very least we need to consider other systems. Nobody is perfect, buy they are providing cheaper care to more people and their folks are living longer.

As for the director of SICKO, you can say a lot of things about Michael Moore; one-sided, yes; liberal, of course; a liar - absolutely not. This is not a case of David and Goliath with big pharma and the insurance industry taking on the role of the little guy. Believe me this movie has been fact checked by every neo-con, industry exec and media empire there is.

By t

July 20, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Why would you want to turn over your health care over to the same government that can’t run…. Social Security, Medicare, VA Hospitals, the Iraq War (that one is for you liberals), the Post Office, Public Housing, FEMA, Grady Hospital, Peachcare, public schools, the IRS, MARTA,the local tag office, etc. etc. etc.

The US Government isn’t trillions of dollars in debt because they are effective and efficient!!!

You libs are amazing. You see a “problem” and the first place you turn to is the GOVERNMENT!!!! Good God, like the best and the brightest being turned out by our universities are going into government jobs.

By delta dawn

July 20, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

My husband recently had bypass surgery. The bill was an enormous amount, which my insurance paid a certain portion and a large portion was written off. That made me think. They must charge those without insurance the full price. If you can write it off, why charge it in the first place.

I then read where DFACS wants out of medicaid paper pushing. My mother in law is in a nursing home and Medicaid has screwed up paper work from DFACS that makes me crazy.

No one will ever have to bomb us. We will go down in financial ruin because we are selfish, cynical and don’t care about anybody but ourselves. The bloggers here can only criticize. That is the extent of their participation.

God help us all.

By Jay

July 20, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

I sympathize with those who suddenly contract a serious illness and struggle to pay for their treatment. However, I have a problem with poor people who have children and then play the part of the victim when they can’t afford health care coverage.

Many people bring on problems themselves, often because they’re so dependent on government assistance. Universal health care will only increase the incidence of irresponsible behavior.

By MrLiberty

July 20, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

So Mr. moderator…

Which is it? No discussion about the free market?

No discussion about how the government destroyed medicine?

No discussion about logical alternatives to the status quo?

Or no discussion or mention of a presidental candidate (a doctor no less)and his constitutional, well-thought out solutions to the medical problems we face.

Would it help if I said that Michael Moore is right - we do have real problems?

Why don’t you just let me know and I will censor my discussion accordingly.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Hey Charles did you go to the Smith School of Debate? The entire quote is ” “The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States…”

I do not sit on the Supreme Court nor am I a representative so I do not make the rules. Anyone that has even the smallest amount of knowledge of the Constitution and legilative process would know a law can not be passed unless it meets constitutional muster.

Making people with real ideas the boogyman works well in the South, mention Liberal Democrat men run and women cry. Boogie, boogie, boogie…

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Just a reminder to all the neo-cons blaming the boogyman or Liberals for socialized health care…

“If I recall correctly it was Bush and the Republicans that expanded Medicare with the Drug company give away. It was such a bonus to the drug companies the Republican Congressman who was floor manager for the bill gave up his seat and now works for a neat million a year to lobby for who else but the Drug companies.”

Stop parroting talk radio and the National Review and address the issue in an intelligent manner for once.

By steve-o

July 20, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

Jay,

You don’t understand. The issue just isn’t about the uninsured. It’s about people WITH insurance that are getting screwed over from private insurance companies that jack up premiums and deductibles for LESS care. When you need a doctor, they call it a loss instead of acknowledging it as part of their obligation. The system is a failed one as it leaves most of us with steep bills that lead to bad credit and bankrupcty.

t,

It is the same government that rebuilt Europe after WWII, produced the strongest military in the history of the world, built one of the first and one of the most extensive superhighway/freeway infrastructure in the world, and enacted the longest running Constitution in the world. So yes, I DO trust our governmnet because it’s OUR government and NOT THE government. Government becomes bad when people don’t care and elect leaders that abuse their power and make decisions that aren’t in the best interests of the people.

By Sri Menon

July 20, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Rick,

Pray, why wasn’t this been the Editorial page’s opinion of the AJC? This article is truly “fair and balanced”. This is so refreshing to read compared to the liberal Democrat mouthpieces, Tucker and Bookman.

As a libertarian, that’s excatly what I felt too. As much as I love capitalism and the role of businesses, big and small, this was one film that really exposed the ruthlessness of the American “win at any costs” psyche and that starts off, for eg, with angry parents shouting at coaches at their kids’ Little League games. Michael Moore is very clever in presenting his point of view without any balancing thought or opinions. But, a business is unethical when it does not provide the services it claims to, and charges people on top of that. Even if one takes away all the emotional problems that have been vividly shown in the film (Michael Moore does, to his credit, an excellent job of that), what really disconcerted me was the “ethical” lapses of businesses. This is akin to the whole State Farm insurance fiasco and Rita/Katrina hurricanes — did it matter if homes were damaged by the winds or the water? Wasn’t it their duty of taking care of their customers who had payed their premiums duly? It is that sickening aspect of American businesses that needs to be truly examined. Is that what this country has come to? Also, I completely disagree with Michael’s contention that we hand over this issue to the government — the same government that has failed to protect this country’s borders, that failed to take its citizens to safety in New Orleans, the same government that spends frivolously on all kinds of pork. Do we want to make that government that much more powerful? I don’t have a solution to this health insurance problem but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) kudos to Michael Moore for highlighting on evil that exists. At least, his movie has helped start the dialogue.

By snoopy

July 20, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Making people with real ideas the boogyman works well in the South, mention Liberal Democrat men run and women cry. Boogie, boogie, boogie…

We know Bruce. That’s why you moron northeastern liberals and Michiganites move to the south to escape your socialist outrageous taxes. In short, you Einsteins taxed yourselves right out of affordable living, and companies too. No, we won’t let you bring and support the same crap down here and ruin this affordable living. That’s not running, that’s fighting infiltration of socialist feel good morons.

By Lex Luthor

July 20, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

The cost of universal healt care according to sicko would be 2.1 trillion. According to CNN would be closer to 2.25 trillion.

Our entire tax base for 2007 is 2.5 trillion. (Note that tax base is 0.244 billion short of covering the cost of the federal gov’t)

Do the math people. The only way they can get the money is to almost double your current federal taxes, and we’d still be short. I’d rather manage my health care myself than be forced to pay it. You won’t be getting it for free.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Per Badie ‘We live in the United States, the richest country on the planet. Yet millions of our people, including kids, go without proper health care, if any at all’.

We exist in the Richest (not wealtiest) country on the planet, yet it is the sickest country on the planet. What is the correlation? Maybe rich is equal to sick.

My Theory is that to be RICH is to have too much, to be in excess, to be overweight, too much fat, clogging up the arteries and the meridians of Life’s flow.

The solution is in the problem.

This capitalistic system is like a greedy pig, devouring for the sake of devouring, not because it needs fuel, if the economy of the planet was more evenly distributed, maybe then WEALTH (Wholistic Health) would be manifested. There would be less sickness, thus less need for the focus on sickness insurance erroneously dubbed health care, of course then the major corporations which rely on the sickness industry would lose their excess fat.

Hotep.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Sorry red did not see your question, “how do you reconcile Article 1 Section 8 with the 10th Amendment?”

There is no need too, Article 1 defines the responsibilities of Congress, “provide for the common defense and general welfare”. So the general welfare of “The People” is already delegated to Congress.

Congress and the Supreme Court have interpreted what general welfare means, there have been challenges, especially in the early years, yet here we are.

By Jay

July 20, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

“You don’t understand. The issue just isn’t about the uninsured. It’s about people WITH insurance that are getting screwed over from private insurance companies…”

I never said it was just about the uninsured. I’m wholeheartedly in favor of some government oversight and regulation of the insurance industry (which won’t happen until we get the lobbyists out of Washington). However, I think socialized health care would encourage irresponsible people to be even more irresponsible and eventually implode.

By snoopy

July 20, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

RODJUAN posted:

We exist in the Richest (not wealtiest) country on the planet, yet it is the sickest country on the planet. What is the correlation? Maybe rich is equal to sick.

Have you looked at demographics of the poor there, DIMROD? I challenge you to go around this nation and check out the rich country clubs and their pools, tennis courts, and golf courses. See how many larda$$es you see hanging out. Then go to poor areas of this nation, especially within inner cities, and do the same. You probably know the answer already but are too cowardly to address it and just blame a successful society. Idiot!

By steve-o

July 20, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Jay,

I see what you’re saying, but I don’t see how universal health care would cause more irresponsible behavior. I don’t jump off of cliffs just because I don’t want to pay a huge deductible…I don’t jump off of clidds because I don’t want to GET HURT. Nobody that I know likes going to hospitals.

Also, kicking the lobbyists out of Congress will never happen. Lobbyists can do some good and lobbyists can do bad. One person’s advocate is another person’s villain. That’s just part of democracy.

The only thing that I do know is that the current system is broke and needs to be fixed. Don’t get me wrong, I’m open to all ideas, but IMO it seems that universal, single-payer health coverage is the most viable solution.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

DIMROD?Idiot!

My point exactly snoopy, the country is so rich this is the only way you can engage in a freeforum discussion, your mental arteries are clogged, your existence is limited to your environment, you see yourself as American only ignoring your larger connection to the planet, thus you settle for being rich and ignore your potential to be wealthy.

My conversation is on a higher frequency, you’re not in the vicinity. You are too rich, lose the mental fat.

Hotep

By Nikita

July 20, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

I guess I do not get all of the name calling and throwing rocks. If nothing else, Micheal Moore showed that a country that is number one in some major and wonderful areas need to take some time, reasses and rectify or at the least try to rectify SOME of the holes in its healthcare policies. That is the truth at the end of the day. The truth is that our workforce needs well educated and healthy people in order for us to flourish, and us, the land of the proud and free that says that opportunity abound must help or try to help those who are going without. There are some situations where it IS all about you, and there is a place where it should be about the group dynamic. If 50 million of our people are not insured, not well, cannot get well, then we have a problem. Whether the government like it or not, a new solution is needed. No amount of pointing at the facts presented is going to take away the fact that 50 million have no health insurance and too many of us who do have it will go bankrupt. The system needs to be tweaked and fixed. How we go about it - first we gotta start looking honestly at the problem and search diligently for a fair, balanced and workable solution (we may have to try many!!) instead of standing around and pointing fingers or calling names.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

’**July 20 (Bloomberg) — In the middle of the biggest glut of condominiums in more than 30 years, Miami developers keep on building.

The oversupply will force prices down as much as 30 percent, the worst decline since the 1970s, and help push Florida’s economy into recession as early as October, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at West Chester, Pennsylvania-based Moody’s Economy.com, who owns a home in Vero Beach, Florida.

Florida is the epicenter for all the problems that exist in the housing industry,'' said Lewis Goodkin, president of Goodkin Consulting Corp. and a property adviser in Miami for the past 30 years, who also foresees a recession.The problems we have now are unprecedented and a lot of people will get burnt**.”

THE ABOVE IS AN EXCERPT FROM TODAYS NEWS, THIS IS THE PIG AT WORK, IT WILL EAT ITSELF TO DEATH.

By Jay

July 20, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

“I see what you’re saying, but I don’t see how universal health care would cause more irresponsible behavior.”

Universal health care gives irresponsible poor people a reason to have—relieves them of a burden of having—children they can’t afford; it’s another government handout. Michael Moore and others cite the millions of uninsured children in the U.S. Sure, some of these kids lost their insurance because of unforseeable hardships. But most of them don’t have coverage because they were born to parents who could never afford to have them.

A lack of health insurance obviously doesn’t deter poor people from having kids, but I think socializing health care will exacerbate the problem and overcrowd the system with more offspring of the welfare class.

By Old brown shoe

July 20, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Well, after reading so many comments on this blog I have come to one conclusion: Americans no longer want to have the freedom to choose to take care of themselves. Americans apparently want the government to run every single aspect of their entire lives from birth to death in one big monotonous draconian lifestyle where everyone is the same. Nobody wants to take personal responsibilities any more, for better or for worse. Our Founding Fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they could see what their future generations were advocating. What the minions on the socialist left are advocating is the EXACT reason why we declared independence from England and fought for it. What the hell has happened to this country? At what point in time in our 230 years did we decide that being successful and chasing the American dream of success and independence is a bad thing and we should be ashamed and live like Cubans under Castro? I blame public education and the liberal hippy movement of the 1960s and 70s. Independence Day should be Null And Void as a holiday since so many Americans no longer believe in Independence.

Forgive them, Forefathers, for they know not what they believe in and definitely know not what dangers their beliefs pose to the future of this Greatest Nation.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19845784/

‘75 percent of Americans overweight by 2015 Two-thirds considered heavy or obese now; rate still increasing, study finds’

‘WASHINGTON - If people keep gaining weight at the current rate, fat will be the norm by 2015, with 75 percent of U.S. adults overweight and 41 percent obese, U.S. researchers predicted on Wednesday’

‘“Obesity is likely to continue to increase, and if nothing is done, it will soon become the leading preventable cause of death in the United States.”

THIS IS THE RICHEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET INDEED, NOT JUST IN WORDS.

YOU STILL THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS ‘SICKNESS INSURANCE (HEALTH CARE)?

By LT5000

July 20, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

Leave it to Rick Badie, third rate journalist, to eat up a Michael Moore documentary as fact. Typical of an AJC reporter. No research or scrutiny of any kind.

Michael Moore is a joke. To hold up that monster Castro and his country as a role model for the USA is ridiculous. Ever wonder why poeple leave that country on inner tubes trying to get to the USA?

You may also remember when Castro cleaned out his prisons and asylums and sent them to the USA. What a hero to Badie and Moore.

The problem with the US health system is primarily lawyers. They will bring a lawsuit against any doctor they can screaming “malpractice”. Bring about tort reform and healthcare prices will decline.

Now, onto the emergency roome, which cannot refuse care to anyone. With 12 million illegals adding to the strain and numerous others not paying a penny for healthcare, it’s no wonder Grady is going under.

How do these hospitals balance their budgets that have been assaulted by these non-paying dregs? Drive up the prices for healthcare for people who have insurance and can pay.

Try being a journalist and researching that Badie.

LT5000

By MrLiberty

July 20, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Michael correctly identifies that the system is broken, but as with all of his other movies, he relies on the government solution to fix what is broken.

I am a proud libertarian much like at least one of the posters, but I do not fault the free market as Mr Moore attempts to in his film. There is no free market in health care.

The insurance companies absolutely are part of the problem. Health care costs money, and everyone who thinks that they somehow can incur $3000 worth of medical expenses in a year while paying out only $2500 between themselves and their employer is just crazy. Any insurance company trying to deal with those finances is going to try and get away with murder - literally. We have got to stop thinking that a pre-paid medical plan is the same as insurance. Physicians, hospitals, and everyone have to spend as much as double just to deal with these insurance companies. This is absolutely a source of rising costs. We should all be purchasing catastrophy insurance with something like a $2-$5000 deductible. Then we should be paying for everything else with cash, etc. No middleman - reduced costs. Better yet, you now become the consumer instead of your insurance company. After that though, insurance companies must be held to honor their contracts. What is going on now is completely criminal, but it is really the direct result of unrealistic expectations on the part of consumers (who really aren’t consumers of health care anyway).

By JJ

July 20, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

It’s not that people want a free ride and want the government to do everything for them, it’s that we want equal treatment and money should not determine whether somebody lives or dies. Is money more important than making sure you go to a hospital that is in your plan. Some people are making way too much money off sick people. And if you say the system will get worse I disagree, I have not been to a good doctor in a long time - I have been misdiagnosed 2 out of the last 3 times I’ve been to the doctor - treated very badly by doctors and their employees - they see me and they see $$$ and that’s it. They don’t ask questions, it doesn’t seem that they care - they’re more interested in their golf game or upcoming vacation. They want me in and out as fast as possible and they’ll charge the insurance company an exorbant amount then me with my $2500 deductible has to pay $400 for a physical - in which they didn’t ask me a single question about how I feel or anything. Took blood work and a reaction test. Something’s got to change.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

OLD BROWN SHOE EXCERPT

‘At what point in time in our 230 years did we decide that being successful and chasing the American dream of success and independence is a bad thing…’

A provocative discousre indeed, but what is the American Dream? is it success? if so isn’t that a planetary right? and not just limited to the man-made borders of America?

And does one not have to remain asleep in order to chase the American Dream?

Is that why the average American is clueless as to what is going on around them? relying instead on CNN and Foxy News to tell them what to think and when?

Maybe it’s time to stop chasing dreams, and start living life, the latter requires very little money, just good healthy relationships with self, otherselves, the planet, and summarily with the Most High.

By Old brown shoe

July 20, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

One Founding Father’s comment about Freedom and Government:

— “Those who would give up Essential Liberty {Freedom} to purchase a little Temporary Safety {Government Assistance}, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” — Benjamin Franklin

By Old brown shoe

July 20, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

A RODJUAN excerpt:

Maybe it’s time to stop chasing dreams, and start living life, the latter requires very little money, just good healthy relationships with self, otherselves, the planet, and summarily with the Most High.

And what, praytell, gives you the authority to tell me what I should do with my life, let alone that my idea of living life is none of your business? How dare you inject your beliefs of what you think is right and just into private individual lives. You un-American fascist.

Good day, sir. I’m going to go out now and enjoy my life this weekend and live my version of the American Dream.

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

I concur Old brown Shoe, you can’t be free and chase dreams at the same time, no more than Ahab was free to do anything else, Moby Dick owned him.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Our Founding Fathers were dealing with a population of 2.5 million people living in the colonies. It is a different world now and Congress has followed the Constitution, just as our Founding Fathers wanted.

Bush is threating a veto of the expansion of subsidized health care for children which would add funding for four million more children to the already six million we’re helping care for now. The Bill has bi-pastian support and may be able to override a veto. To pay for it taxes would be raised on cigarettes, another major health problem.

Reasons why Bush feels a veto is a must, it will hurt the tobacco and insurance industries? Bushsense, poor uninsured children will not buy health insurance which they can not afford anyway and while government wants people to stop smoking it doesn’t want to hurt Big Tobacco.

Boogie, boogie, boogie…

By Kim

July 20, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Someone said: “Sanjay Gupta seriously took Moore’s satirical musings so-called documentary apart.” You are seriously mistaken here. Michael Moore ripped Gupta a new one & pointed out all of his inaccuracies. Catch up.

By bulldogbill

July 20, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

the problem with the health care system in the USA is the problem with the overall health of it’s citizens. We’re lazy and overweight, and as a result, are less healthy than other cultures. Michael Moore is an indication of the problem, not a provider of the solution. If he lived in Cuba, I bet he wouldn’t be such a unhealthy lardass!

By RODJUAN

July 20, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

‘BROWN SHOE EXCERPT’

And what, praytell, gives you the authority to tell me what I should do..

THIS IS WHAT’S WRONG WITH CHASING DREAMS, YOU WALK AROUND IN A DAZE, ONE MINUTE YOU’RE LUCID NEXT MINUTE YOU’RE CALLING PEOPLE OUT THEIR NAMES.

Do you feel like you’re being told what to do Brown Shoe? it’s called an Opinion, an opinion does not and cannot tell you what to do, an opinion is a shared viewpoint, by it’s very nature it is non-invasive. Now you may feel like you’re being told what to do with your life but that’s only because you’re dreaming life, try living it.

By Michael H. Smith

July 20, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

I disagree with the other someone Moore got his plow cleaned. End of story.

As to the reading the communist manifesto into the previous cited article Government is to provide for your general welfare?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, *promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The intent is clearly to promote your general welfare.

Bush is right to veto Gordon Smith’s(R) attempt to expand socialized medicine.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

Its first three words – “We The People” – affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens.

Boogie, boogie, boogie…

By The Realist

July 20, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Every problem has some core ROOT problem The problem with health care isn’t health care itself, but the costs. Why are the costs high? Ridiculous TORT laws. Anybody can sue anybody (which is ok) for ANY amount (which is not ok). This drives up malpractice insurance. Simple. If the actual cost of health care were simply the facilities, doctors, education for doctors and nurses, R&D for the drugs (hey…they DO need to get paid for the risk they assume by spending money on research), health care would be much cheaper.

Michael Moore needs to do a documentary on tort reform, not healthcare. While he’s at it, maybe he can do one on our tax system. If we fix that, the whole immigration issue largely dissolves.

Check out fairtax.com

By The Realist

July 20, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

Every problem has some core ROOT problem The problem with health care isn’t health care itself, but the costs. Why are the costs high? Ridiculous TORT laws. Anybody can sue anybody (which is ok) for ANY amount (which is not ok). This drives up malpractice insurance. Simple. If the actual cost of health care were simply the facilities, doctors, education for doctors and nurses, R&D for the drugs (hey…they DO need to get paid for the risk they assume by spending money on research), health care would be much cheaper.

Michael Moore needs to do a documentary on tort reform, not healthcare. While he’s at it, maybe he can do one on our tax system. If we fix that, the whole immigration issue largely dissolves.

Check out fairtax.com

By Michael H. Smith

July 20, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Most will not argue healthcare in this country needs to change from the present hybrid model of Government socialized medicine for some i.e. Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, Indigent-Care and for others business sponsored healthcare. Americans are simply not getting all the services due for all the healthcare monies being spent – just not enough bang for the healthcare dollar.

Return the power of healthcare to the people is the best solution. Funding is probably the biggest hurdle. A couple of suggestion is to create a national healthcare lottery. All proceeds except for administrative costs distributed equally and directly to each U.S. citizens established Medical Savings Account, also take a percentage of all gambling and gaming proceeds to deposit equally and directly into each U.S. citizens established Medical Savings Account. All sin taxes now collected by BIG GOVERNMENT should be equally deposited into the respected sinner’s account to cover the additional costs of higher insurance rates incurred for having indulged and likely for requiring additional healthcare services. Give tax credits for citizen contributions expanded beyond the present allowed deducts, in addition give businesses tax breaks for contributions made to their employees MSA. More creative financing probably does exist that should be brought into play.

A couple of things before going onto other various needed parts, is to focus in on preventive medicine, Gingrich and Gupta both have seen the value in this. Libertarians may not appreciate this comment but it is the truth. Americans really can handle drugs, better than most other people in this world. We consume near two-thirds of all the illegal drugs and that doesn’t include all the legal drugs Americans consumed. Face it, America is an “addict nation”. Sure, America can handle drugs, we just can’t seem to do very good job in handling our addictions. Then along the same lines of behavior modification, many of us simply eat our way into an early grave. Now, dare I add our addiction to using oil and the other pollutants that poison our bodies? That might be reason enough to create a few new sin taxes or two to help out in the funding department? If we ever intend to bring down healthcare costs it will take “life changes” not merely change in lifestyles and that is going to be very uncomfortable for many of us.

Laws need changing to allow greater choice to the healthcare consumer, not just more competition in the private sector insurance industry. Duncan Hunter gave an example of how a healthcare policy in Georgia costing a thousand or two a year could be bought in the mid-west for several hundred dollars a year. That needs to change. The healthcare consumers should have every possible option at their fingertips to grasp. Drug re-importation is an absolute must for the healthcare consumer. Funny how all those big Free Trade advocates bolt when it comes to eliminating this trade barrier. A guy in Mexico started a Pharmaceutical company that produces generic drugs and sells them in the Mexican market for a fraction of what we Americans pay for the same FDA quality generic drugs here in the States. Both political parties by the way, get big money from big Pharma.

Last be not least, allow “We the People” to collectively, whether by state, region, or nationally to become a self-insuring entity in direct competition with the private sector insurance companies and HMOs’. You can bet the healthcare insurance companies and HMOs’ will fight this one to their very death.

Hello, K-Street, we got deep pockets!

By Michael H. Smith

July 20, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Service does not mean send me a welfare check!

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this

Tort reform is a non-issue. In 2002, payouts from malpractice comprised .38% of U.S. health care costs. HCFA data show that while health care costs have risen by 74.7% in constant dollars since 1988, malpractice costs have increased only 5.7% over the same period. The conclusion is straightforward and simple: Medical malpractice premiums are not the cause of skyrocketing medical costs, period.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 20, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

Service is whatever “The People” decide through their representatives.

By Michael H. Smith

July 20, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

In the case of whatever service is through our Representatives We the People haven’t made very good decisions.

“We the Patrons”, are in turn, serving the hired help.

By steve

July 21, 2007 7:38 AM | Link to this

I was in a Toronto hospital in 2000 and shared a room with a man who was waiting for surgery to correct a heart problem. Gov’t said he’d have to wait his turn to see specialist and he had been in hospital waiting for 3 weeks after he had waited over 4 months in his home. I went for some tests and when I returned to the room I found he had died while I was gone. Only socializedd medicine could accomplish this…

By Clifton Williams

July 21, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

Healthcare is an issue because most people in US do not see the costs and shop for it like they do everything else.

Simple solution: 1. Mandatory catastrophic insurance scaled to income to handle cancer, care wrecks etc. 2. Credit for preventive care, checkups, dental etc up to $1000k or so. 3. MSA accounts that cover a lot of the hole between credit to when catastrophic insurance kicks in. These accounts build up for retirement if not used. THIS WILL INCENT SHOPPING FOR BEST VALUE AND DRIVE DOWN COSTS!!!

By Clifton Williams

July 21, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this

Healthcare is an issue because most people in US do not see the costs and shop for it like they do everything else.

Simple solution: 1. Mandatory catastrophic insurance scaled to income to handle cancer, care wrecks etc. 2. Credit for preventive care, checkups, dental etc up to $1000k or so. 3. MSA accounts that cover a lot of the hole between credit to when catastrophic insurance kicks in. These accounts build up for retirement if not used. THIS WILL INCENT SHOPPING FOR BEST VALUE AND DRIVE DOWN COSTS!!!

By cranky old man

July 21, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Lex Luther wrote:

“Do you really want the same group of people who can’t secure the southern border to run you healthcare?”

Civil servants have been accused by the political right of being inefficient, lazy, callous, and indifferent. Perhaps. But they don’t have a personal economic incentive to deny as many claims as possible.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 21, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

steve a woman bled to death on the floor of an emergency room is San Francisco last week. The hospital was located in the poor section of town and mostly treated the indigent. Too few doctors, too many patients without insurance. steve do you think this is an isolated incident that only happens in a big city?

The horror story you gave just shows the man was being treated and unless you’re a doctor you really do not have a clue on how serious his condition was. Millions of United States citizens can not afford any preventive medical care nor can they afford needed drugs, which scares you more.

Boogie, boogie, boogie…

By Bruce Wilcox

July 21, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

Oh and steve why would you go to Canada to have tests done?

By Atico

July 21, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

The United States of America is in charge of all our Veterans Administration Hospitals. Got it?

Do you want these people to be in charge of you, and and your family’s health? Take a trip to your V.A. hospital and view the employees with their high and mighty attiude problems. That is enough to make you ill, but go further inside and discover the background of the medical staff. This information will cause you to get away from that mess with warp speed. Only those trapped within the system ever stay.

There has to be a way to help those that will not help themselves, without injecting a government enitity.

Politicians tell us they are Public Servants, but in reality they are self serving professionals that feed from the tax payers trough for as many years as they can fool the voter.

These are the people that would direct and allocate the needed funds for health care overseen by the government. That should be fair warning to all of us. Remember the two turn coat Senators on the immigration reform bill? Their only concern is to get re-elected, so they change with the wind. One day they are in bed with Ted Kennedy, the next they try to convince their constiuents that they really did not like the bill afterall. Sure, afterall their constituetnts got into their case. Kick them out come the next election. Surely you do not want this kind of decison/indecison making by people that would run a medical program for the USA.

By Michael H. Smith

July 21, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Thanks for pointing out how fatally flawed one more level of Big Governmant socialized healthcare is in this country - IndigentCare, IndigentKaid.

Had the woman who bleed to death had an MSA she could have bought healthcare insurance or paid outright for service - if it was funded probably for the most part by a national healthcare lottery and the rest from her own meager means and not a penny of tax money as I’ve suggested - then she would not have died from receiving the Big Government socialized healthcare treatment.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 21, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Yes I am sure that for people without funds a MSA would be on the top of the list of must haves, far over food or lodging. Of course preventive medicine is out of the question, the most cost effective way of controling health problems, because it would eat up all the funds amassed in the MSA.

It is an idea worth looking into, but as anyone can see it has serious flaws.

The poor woman did not die from socialized healthcare, she died for LACK of it.

By Charles

July 21, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

We have several Charles’ responding to Rick Badie. Charles P wrote:

By Charles P

July 20, 2007 3:53 AM | Link to this

Michael Moore and ALL HOLLYWOOD celebrities are LIEING to America, about EVERYTHING!!! They have always had an agenda that is to grab as much power as they can, using any method they want. Even using assassinations, armed thugs, and criminal organizations to beat up 7 year old children to steal movie and television show ideas! You people in Atlanta know this, as many of you, in the late 1990’s, went around helping Hollywood to try and steal ideas from me!!!! Many of you laughed at me for being ripped off, while others actually were dumb enough to think that I would voluntarily help those rich COMMUNISTS! If any of you KNEW the large number of murders/rapes/child molestations that HOLLYWOOD COMMITS each year, you would mess your pants. And then they try to pretend to be decent by having shows like “Dateline” arrest a bunch of online phedophiles. WHY don’t the ever lock up HOLLYWOOD child molesters??? They give Hollywood perverts Academy Awards (Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, etc.). WAKE UP AMERICA!!! IGNORE HOLLYWOOD AND START FINDING WAYS TO PUT CELEBRITIES IN PRISON!!!

Another Charles responded to Bruce Wilcox by writing:

By Charles

July 20, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this

Bruce Wilcox wrote:

“Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution refers to the “general welfare” thus: “The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes,…”

Does “general welfare” also mean free housing, free food, free haircuts, free transportation, free higher education, free life insurance, free day care, free clothing, and free corrective eyewear prescriptions? After all, that’s a part of a person’s general welfare too. Leave it to the Leninista Liberals to decide what should be “free” for everyone; they want us all to be equally miserable under government mandates and have government run cradle to grave lifestyles. And you thought Liberal Democrats were all about freedom of choice? Hah!

Many will come in the name of Charles. It’s time for the real Charles to write and speak to the people at home and around the globe.

Below are the keys to solve the riddles of life.

www.radioliberty.com www.iotconline.com www.thepatriots.us www.chuckcoppes.com www.freedomadvocates.org www.infowars.com www.deliberatedumbingdown.com www.expendableelite.comwww.senatornancyschaefer.comwww.spychips.com www.911truth.org

www.americandeception.comwww.worldaffairsbrief.comwww.gregpalast.com www.ccir.net www.williamhkennedy.com www.patholiday.comwww.thepowerhour.comwww.jerryesmith.com www.dickmorris.comwww.antichips.comwww.beareroflight.com

By Charles

July 21, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

www.spychips.comwww.gregpalast.com

By Michael H. Smith

July 21, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

The poor woman certainly did die from socialized medicine. The only care she relied on was government indigent-care. Anytime an individual has to rely on something or someone else to provide for their healthcare, their life is in jeopardy and at the mercy of that reliance. As broken and dysfunctional as this government is, it is amazing anyone would still try to promote socialized medicine, let alone actually believe in it.

By Bruce Wilcox

July 21, 2007 7:22 PM | Link to this

When you go the the hospital, with insurance I presume, do you receive a 100% money back guarantee? I doubt it, accidents happen, even to those who are over insured.

I do not think the Trauma Center at Grady asks for an insurance card.

By Bush

July 21, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

Yeah, 18000 in our country die everyday because of the private enterprise, what’s that to compare? 50 million Americans are uninsured and I do hope they don’t get sick

I see those brainless brainwash greedy maniacs spouting whatever against having a fire dept(socialization) have to go see Sicko before leaving any comments.

We have had it!!

By Dr. Z

July 21, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Healthcare is not a right—it is a privilege.

In Cuba (Michael Moore’s model country), the citizens are all equal—they are equally poor.

Billary will place 15% of the nation’s economy under government control. Do you want the same folks who require 6 months to produce a passport to schedule surgeries, diagnostic tests, etc.? Also, if the federal government mandates prices in the pharmaceutical industry, innovation will cease.

I like Mike Huckabee’s comment that if Moore really wanted to do something about improving healthcare, he could lose 100 lbs. (or so).

By Medic

July 21, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

This will be graphic: aka, not for children or the faint of heart. Truth does that more than religion.

I am uninsured. I have boils, epidermal cysts, according to the Navy, that have reached my balls. I would not have sex with anyone, being in this condition. Since I’ve halted my personal decision on procreation for this reason, I though you should know. I also think you should know that dental hygiene amonst the masses is a massive failure. Germans drink warm beverages with no ice because it makes their teeth hurt. No dentists for the average person. Bad teeth, hello Austin Powers. For me, it doesn’t much matter, there are strange lumps on my genitalia and I have no recourse other than abstinence. The failure of procreation of the human race, and I find that interesting as I can no longer care about the survival of the race as a whole. Or survival, in general, because what exist does not exist to successfully continue life on this planet. Welcome to the United States and all that is offered.

By Medic

July 22, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

OH. For those in their mid to late 30s, using warm water makes brushing one’s teeth tolerable. Because that’s when they start breaking down the hardest and fastest. Take care of them, cause fixing them is too expensive for the vast majority. The people.

By otter357

July 22, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

I’d like to weigh in on this healthcare discussion and say a few things. Interpret them as you will.

About the Michael Moore Wolf Blitzer, Sanjay Gupta CNN scuffle: Dr Gupta had to apologize for dividing one of Moore’s statistics by 10.

The “expert” Gupta referred to is a man named Keckley. While CNN told the audience that Keckley was from Vanderbilt, they knew he has left Vanderbilt a year before and was now affiliated with Deloitte & Touche USA LLP, part of a global audit, tax, consulting, and financial advisory services group of firms. Keckley is the executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions. Their main clients are medical insurance companies.

The video on the CNN website is edited, not the original. The original is on Michael Moore’s website. www.michaelmoore.com/

I saw the show live and have seen both Moore’s and CNN’s clips. Whether you like Moore or not, his clip is the real unedited one. CNN’s is altered. Some of Wolf’s frantic attempts to shore up Gupta’s reputation are omitted, as is Lou Dobb’s sick faced comment, “Well, he’s [Michael Moore] is a bigger liberal propagandist than Hugo Chavez”. Dobb’s face is pricelessly sick. Moore had just kicked his advertisers in the teeth on live TV, and won handily. Moore was smart enough to insist on going live only, you’ll see that mentioned in the exchange. The editing job CNN did on the version it posted to its website is the reason Moore goes on “live” only. Some of you may not have had the wit to decode this exchange.

Right after the segment, a commercial for the Cleveland Hospital Corporation played. The patients and doctors and janitors all sing a song about how good Cleveland Hospital Corp is. They are steady buyers of advertising for this segment. The medical industry buys very heavily on Gupta’s segments.

Moore cleaned Gupta’s clock, and Wolf’s, for the unobservant, or ideologically blinded. That’s why CNN edited its video to make itself look better, and why they had to apologize to Moore for fudging who their expert really represented, and for dividing one of his statistics by ten (which probably was an innocent mistake).

Some people have objected to universal health care on ideological grounds. Socialism! They cry. You mean, like the libraries? The police, do you pay them, or they don’t come? How about the fire and the ambulance? They aren’t pay as you go either. Traffic signals? The power grid? Sewers? All collective enterprises, not pay as you go or they don’t come. Some of you posters will have your heads exploding as you realize how much of what we do is already collective, ‘cause it can’t be done any other way. Public Schools?

You ideological people, are you prepared to give all those things up? They are manifestations of the collective. You might be a dirty commie if you use the library, or the fire department, or the sewers, or the public schools. Or the roads.

Of course if you don’t use the water and the power and the sewers, you might be dirtier than those weak character socialists that do use them! Don’t be hypocrites now…quit using that toilet! Compost it in the backyard! Stay off the roads and out of the schools! Or stop being blinded by boogie man labels, pay your taxes and enjoy flush toilets and books, and police protection nd fire departments and traffic lights…you get the idea.

Much of the country already has socialized medical care, Medicare and Medicaid. Older people vote, that’s why they have Medicare. The administrative costs were quoted by one guy as 2%. That’s not right. Really, its closer to 4%, but that is still much, much lower than the private sector, where the administrative bite runs between 20-35%.

You can scream all you want, but you won’t be able to refute a word, no matter how strongly you feel that you are the real American and Moore and I are dastardly traitors. Your ideological angst is an illusion, a delusion. And it will be played upon in the coming years, to your own detriment. But I for one stand with Moore.

By otter357

July 22, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

Moore’s assertion that Keckley “has done business with Blue Cross, with Aventis, with these other groups,” is also accurate.

….from 1998 to 2002 Keckley served as chief executive officer of EBM Solutions Inc., which licensed software applications to “32 healthcare organizations in 2002 including Health Net of California, Blue Cross of Tennessee, Aventis and others.”

see the movie, it rocks. Go Mike!

By Medic

July 22, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this

Well written: By otter357

Truth trumps stories always, in the end.

By Michael H. Smith

July 22, 2007 6:18 AM | Link to this

BS! I could care less about Michael Moore, who is a lunatic or this wonderful diatribe on Gupta and CNN. The matter is far simpler: Will government act on your behalf as well as you will act in your own behalf? I seriously doubt that. When the individual holds the power over their healthcare the best interests are truly being represented.

Presently, entitlements account for 40% of the federal budget. In the years to come this percentage will rise exponentially until the entitlements not only consume the entire budget but will alone create deficits in spending. Truth is we cannot afford socialized medicine . Businesses cannot afford to continue to furnish healthcare as we Americans would like to have it either; every year from a personal observation I’ve noticed how premiums continue to go up and the services continue to decline.

There is no such thing as FREE! In that point of fact Michael Moore revealed just how out of touch with reality he truly is, Moore lost it from that point on. Moore’s so-called facts are selective, fashioned around the case, his case, as he would have it made. Moore’s satire is certainly not a credible documentary. If you like Mother Goose stories then go see Michaels Moore’s fantasy and don’t stop believing in the tooth fairy. When you get a bill from a doctor, just quote them a nursery rhyme in lieu of payment and tell them their services were FREE!

Not me my friend, not me. Government healthcare - socialized medicine - will prove to be the most expensive form of medicine this country will practice. As so many other nations have discovered socialized medicine can’t deliver the services they expected.

America too, will rue the day HillaryCare, “Michael Moore’s FREE HEALTHCARE” becomes our living nightmare.

By otter357

July 22, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

My post is a diatribe? What do you call that post you wrote?

This issue is not as simple as you are, Mr Smith. But lets start with the true statements in your post.

*Businesses cannot afford to continue to furnish healthcare as we Americans would like to have it either; every year from a personal observation I’ve noticed how premiums continue to go up and the services continue to decline.

When the individual holds the power over their healthcare the best interests are truly being represented.

Presently, entitlements account for 40% of the federal budget.*

As you stated, there is no such thing as free. Government taxes and redistributes. The expeditures govt makes are what to refer to as entitlements. They include all the services mentioned in my post.

Of course govt spends the taxes it collects on ‘entitlements’, should they confiscate and keep it? Spend it on foreign wars?

You ignored the substance of my post because it wasn’t simple enough for your ideologically driven posture, but even you said,

Businesses cannot afford to continue to furnish healthcare as we Americans would like to have it either; every year from a personal observation I’ve noticed how premiums continue to go up and the services continue to decline.

Well, what will you do about this, call it names? Continue to watch businesses supply terrible health care (because costs go up, as you say) to fewer and fewer people? More and more should suffer and die without access to preserve your ideological delusions? Tell me, have you unhooked your power and sewer yet? No? You must be a commie socialist.

Some of us feel that spending 180 billion a year on war in Iraq is a worse choice than providing a secure source of health care to our citizens. That’s the debate were having. You aren’t in this, because you offer no information, and cannot respond to the speech and concerns of others. It seems what you can do is ignore what people say, and parrot your unsupportable… posture.

Sir, you are programmed to fight against your own self interests, but what you call a position is just a collection of tag lines, ignorance, and rage. No wonder we have such crappy government with such easily manipulated voters as you. 150 billion a year for Iraq, that’s necessary, eh? and heath care for our own is a sneered at with a “Hillarycare” tag line. Jesus, we have some dumb voters, and you’re one of them. Hegemony= actively participating in one’s own oppression.

What do you think we should do about providing medical care to those without? Tell them to drop dead?

Your name calling means nothing. Don’t forget to unhook that power and sewer, stay off the roads, and well…I’m pretty sure I don’t have to tell you to avoid the schools and libraries…

By Michael H. Smith

July 22, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Yep, your post is a diatribe but don’t let your inane reasoning and name calling stop you from making Iraq the issue behind the fall of healthcare in this country.

Oh by the way as long as I pay the power bill and sewer bill I plan to keep my service. I’d say you’re very ignorant at best to suggest I unhook anything I’ve paid for.

Iraq is not the issue, jumping around like Michael Moore to avoid staying on topic like a pogo stick on Meth didn’t help his argument’s anymore than it helps your’s. If anything Iraq is a good example of government mismanagement. Is that the stupidity you use to win confidence for socialized medicine another example of government mismanagement?

You can make it ObamaCare or JohnnyCare or even BushyCare if you like. The tag is against Government controlled healthcare, which is not free.

People die in this country because they have no control or a very few have any control over their healthcare and what healthcare they have, is inadequately funded genius. Go back and read the seedling thoughts I’ve proposed to remedy exactly the very causes behind a worsening healthcare system.

And don’t forget to kiss the tooth fairy.

By Rose

July 22, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

My husband and I are self-employed after Lucent’s downsizing (22 years of employment). We work hard. We have tried to get health insurance and cannot (at any price) because of our ages and pre-existing conditions. My husband got sick and nearly died last year. We saw true Christianity at work when our church virtually rescued us when he was unable to work.
Turning healthcare over to the government would be a very bad idea…however, something needs to be done. It is insane when non-tax-paying illegal aliens fill the emergency rooms and receive free care, yet tax-paying citizens lose their shirts because of over-priced, inaccessible health care. Newt Gingrich has some very good ideas about it (not that I am crazy about unfaithful politicians….I’m afraid the world is just not perfect!) What can be done???

By John

July 22, 2007 6:53 PM | Link to this

I lost $7000 in non-refundable travel expenses after the government finished my passport in 14 weeks —after they promised to do it in 8-10 weeks.

Thank God I wasn’t depending on these bone-heads for life saving surgery. There is no accountabilty with the government, and my health is too important for that.

By JB

July 22, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

There is already nearly free healthcare, it called a county healthcare clinic. Most are very low, if no cost depending on your circumstances. As far as those not having insurance, it’s not my responsiblity to pay their way. If you feel they you are responsible, then get out your wallet and pay. I’m not about to. I donate each year to various charities, and most involve helping those who need a hand up. The difference being is that I volunteer the money I give. I’m NOT forced by the government to take care of someone.

Take a look at Grady, and how the state mandated “free” services destroyed a great hospital. Go to their emergency waiting room on any given day, and you will find it filled with freeloaders with non-emergency ailments. Gimme, gimme, gimme. More, more, more. Grady was taken advantage of by the very community it was built to serve.

Call me cold-hearted or whatever you want, but it is not my responsibility to pay your or anyone else’s way through life.

By Realistic

July 22, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

Sicko mistakes symptoms for causes. It is a typical induction fallacy.

By Realistic

July 22, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

Sicko mistakes symptoms for causes. It is a typical induction fallacy.

By TJ

July 22, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Rose, Here’s a helpful hint. Next time you need to go to the emergency room, tell them your last name is Gonzolez, and you’re not a citizen. Instant free healthcare.

By Clint

July 22, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Being stung by this bloated and broken health care system is the great equalizer. We are ALL prone to it’s disdain for the individual and love of all things monetary. You do not matter to this system it only wants your money and cares nothing for your health. Good luck. You can lash out at Michael Moore all you want, but someday soon you too will face the truth.

By Uncle Jimbo

July 22, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

Conservatives giveth, while the Liberals take everthing but responsibility.

By Dee

July 22, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

God Bless America or Only the “Well to do?” This nation is lost in its own laws. BEWARE, if we don’t get it right, then some other country will take over and get it right (FOR THEM).

By Milton

July 22, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

Does Moore address Malpractice cost and malpractice insurance in his movie. I am guessing that you can’t sue your doctor in Cuba, England, Canada, etc. Also, he talks about is being ranked so low in health, that is because we live in a country that has too many drunk drivers, shootings and just plain unhealthy people like Moore(he is a heart attack waiting to happen).

By zeke

July 23, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

What mind numb idiots read or reply to this is astounding! There may be 40 to 50 million without health insurance, but, who are they! Yes, there may be 10 to 15 million who cannot afford or cannot medically qualify for insurance, and, they may need “some” limited assistance! But, there are 30 to 40 million who refuse to buy insurance because they think they do not need it, want to buy other things or are just ignorant! We do not need to ruin the best health care system in the world by letting the socialists in our country and government allocate health care and tax us into oblivion to provide it! Best case, help the few who cannot help themselves and make the rest buy insurance and keep us the best in the world!

By john

July 23, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

America does not have the the best healthcare in the world. The healthcare that america receive is at the bottom at the bottom of the list among industralized nations. Socialize medicine will not make us a communist country as no more than public schools or public libraries as some would try to scare us into beleiving. Our healthcare system in its present form is a failure. There has to be a change.