Home > Gwinnett > Rick Badie / My Opinion > Archives > 2006 > April > 01 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USProtesters’ flags send mixed signal
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
In America, protests are a way of life.
We can march, chant and sing songs about overcoming whatever ails us. Last month, an example of the freedom to express ourselves was on full display.
Thousands of demonstrators in numerous cities took to the streets to protest proposed federal and state legislation that would crack down on the 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. Expect more protests as controversial measures concerning immigration move forward.
Something struck me as odd when I watched the TV news and read articles about protests two weeks ago in Los Angeles and other cities. Many participants waved and wrapped themselves in their ancestral flags. Mexican flags were prominent, as were those of other Latin countries.
Protest organizers had implored demonstrators to show up with Old Glory. And yes, U.S. flag carriers could be seen. There just wasn’t a preponderance of them, and that’s a shame, as well as a turnoff.
It sends the wrong message to everyone. To folk like me sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants, and who take issue with their being made political scapegoats. To those, especially, who want to blame them for low wages, crowded schools and the changing cultural cadence in their neighborhoods. And to those straddlers who haven’t formed much of an opinion, one way or the other.
When Latinos embrace their ancestral flag, it suggests that they’re willing to come here for a piece of the American dream. They just don’t invest in it hook, line and sinker. It hints that there’s more love for the social, economic and political turmoil left behind than the opportunity afforded them here. It makes people think that, perhaps, there’s no willingness like immigrants of past eras to learn English and study civics. To assimilate. That maybe all they are interested in are the dollars they can send back to Mexico.
It’s one thing to stand up and speak out. When you wave or wrap yourself in the flag of another country, then march down an American street, you don’t appear aggrieved. You seem arrogant. Pompous maybe. And if you’re a student protester, misguided, perhaps.
In December, a poll conducted for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution showed more than 80 percent of respondents thought it was important for the Georgia Legislature to deal with illegal immigration. The General Assembly has done just that.
Senate Bill 529 would require state and local government agencies to verify the immigration status of adults applying for taxpayer-provided benefits. It also requires companies doing business with the state to check the legal status of new employees. Illegal immigrants arrested for felonies or DUI would have to be reported to federal immigration authorities. The legislation awaits the governor’s signature.
A “National Day of Action” is being organized by labor, immigration, civil rights and religious groups to take place on April 10. Julian Herrera, a Norcross pastor and spokesman for a local alliance, has told AJC Gwinnett News that a local protest march will be held; the location hasn’t been determined.
An immigration overhaul has just about reached the boiling point. Symbols are significant. They can either help or hinder the cause of the protesters.
American dreams and foreign flags don’t mesh. Decide which one is the most important.
• Rick Badie’s column appears on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Contact him at 770-263-3875. Or e-mail: rbadie@ajc.com.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 2, 2006 07:13 AM | Link to this
If your reminded everyday that you are nothing more than a illegal immigrant, cheap labor to be used to benefit the community, who doesn’t even rise to the status of a second class citizen, why should you be flying the United States flag proudly?
And techniality they are flying an American flag, the last time I checked Mexico was still part of North America or did Bush invade the rest of the continents? Now who is being arrogant Rick?
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
When Latino’s were hidden in the fields picking our produce for decades no one had a problem with immigration. Now that the economy of this country is changing and the people who would normally ignor immigrates are now blaming them for their economic woes. Latino’s want the same thing everyone else seeks,life,liberty and happiness. Sad thing is our politicans have latched on to this issue and have turned the table around. The question the average citizen should be asking is why is my $30-40 thousand dollar job going overseas? Why are Corporate CEO’s getting salaries 500 times of the lowest worker in that company? Shifting the blame for this country’s economic woes on Latino’s is disingenuous at best and border line racist.
By Deborah Lee
April 2, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this
The flag waving has a lot to do with fact that the Hispanics also feel that the Anglos stole the land in the southeast from the indigenous people, mainly the Mexican Indians, stealing the best farm land using their theory of Manifest Destiny. Just read your history books. They just want their piece of the pie back. What is really sad, is that if an American walked down the street with an American flag wrapped around them they would probably be assasinated because most of the world hates us. I disagree with Rick about Americans being free to protest and that it is a way of life. The Latinos were brought together mostly from the radio announcers. American radio constantly tells people that to protest anything is unpatriotic. I think that the Latinos are going to be a wake up call to the American sheep who live in this country. Another thing, this theory that all immigrants came to the U.S. through Ellis Island is a joke. They would like you to believe that back in the GOOD OLE DAYS every one followed the rules and laws.
By LG
April 2, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
The protesters aren’t all illegal. Some are here legally. What is the difference with them wrapping their old countries flags around themselves stating that they are Mexican-American, Columbian-American and with other folks stating that they are African-American? Is that a double standard Rick?
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Just a few thoughts, and I’ll go crawl back under my rock.
Rick is correct in saying that wrapping oneself in another country’s flag will not engender much sympathy from the locals.
Bruce, illegal is illegal, and I would imagine those that are get reminded of that in numerous ways. Cheap labor isn’t so cheap when you add all the ‘other’ costs into the equation.
James,, you are absolutely correct that people should question the outsourcing of good-paying jobs, as well as the obscene amounts of money paid to CEO’s. If I had one of those jobs I know I’d be asking.
The jobs I have had over the last 30 years haven’t been that glamorous. I’ve swung hammers, dug ditches and landscaped homes. These types of jobs are the ones that illegal aliens take, limiting my ability to provide for my family while enriching ONLY those criminal employers who use them. It’s fine for ‘Latinos’ to want life, liberty and happiness, but when they come here illegally and steal it from me, in collusion with those same criminal employers, I’m gonna fight back.
Deborah, nobody stole the land. The newly independent Mexican government invited the ‘Texicans’ into the region, and 25 years later they declared their independence. When the Mexican-American War ended, the government of Mexico accepted $15 million dollars as payment in full for the lands you now claim were ‘stolen’.
Mark my words, this Aztlan reconquista BS is going to lead to BIG trouble. Here are some pictures to let Americans know just what the Aztlan folks really believe.
Nothing good will come of this, I am sure.
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Pinestraw Guy you and I are almost in agreement up until the part of taking jobs from you. During the big job boom of the 1990’s you could quit one job today and be employed the next day. Now that the job market has dried up or moved overseas,the scapegoating has begun. And as in the past history of our country a boogie man is created to excite the masses for their poor economic conditions. When we all know if we are honest what’s really driving jobs and wages. The greed of corporations is the answer in my opinion.
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
Source
There is some direct evidence that immigration has harmed less-educated natives; states with the largest increase in immigrants also saw larger declines in natives working; and in occupational categories that received the most new immigrants, native unemployment averages 10 percent.
• While most natives are more educated, and don’t face competition from less-educated immigrants, detailed analysis of 473 separate occupations shows that 17 million less-educated adult natives work in occupations with a high concentrations of immigrants.
• Some of the occupations most impacted by immigration include maids, construction laborers, dishwashers, janitors, painters, cabbies, grounds keepers, and meat/poultry workers. The overwhelming majority of workers in these occupations are native-born.
• The workers themselves are not the only thing to consider; nearly half of American children (under 18) are dependent on a less-educated worker, and 71 percent of children of the native-born working poor depend on a worker with a high school degree or less.
• Native-born teenagers (15 to 17) also saw their labor force participation fall — from 30 percent in 2000 to 24 percent in 2005.
According to the report, states such as California, Maryland, Georgia, North Carolina and Tennessee have received the largest influx of immigrant workers over the last five years, while at the same time charting the largest increases in the unemployment rates of American-born workers. Georgia’s working immigrant population doubled between 2000 and 2005, while the number of Americans working dropped by 5 percent, or 103,000 workers. The report uses statistics compiled by the Department of Labor and the U.S. Census Bureau between 2000 and 2005. It looks at American-born workers and illegal and legal immigrants between the ages of 18 and 64.Construction jobs don’t move overseas, so don’t try to tie out-sourcing to the debate. One has nothing to do with the other, although I do agree that the greed of corporations IS the REAL bogeyman. Simple things like the law of supply and demand control wages in the ‘labor market’. Import millions of workers, wages go down. Not a tough concept to understand.
By Jan Houston
April 2, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Our flag is THE flag of The United States of America, not NorthAmerica.
Come here, but come Legally and respect and fly The Flag of the United States of America.
I respect their flag, but when THE Issue, is their status in our country, seems to me they would be PROUD to fly The Flag of the country which they fled to
Good article Rick!!!
By Wilbur Froeh
April 2, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
What is the difference between African pride and Mexican pride or Irish, Italian, Polish or southern heritage recognition?
The same attitudes toward Mexicans today are the same ones that kept Africans in slavery in this country for 300 years and look the other way while the white man stole the native american’s lands.
I challenge anyone to tell me how illegal immigration has harmed you personally.
Wil
By Bruce Wilcox
April 2, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this
Jan, America describes a continent, not a single country.
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
In case you are not aware there are hundreds of thousands of Europeans who are illegal in this country. Where’s the outcry for their deportation?
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
Wilbur,
I hate to repeat myself but I’ll do it for you this once.
When you import million of workers, wages go down.
In 1992, I made $22 an hour in construction. That same job today pays $12. Why? Because criminal employers hire illegal aliens at lower wages making it harder for me to support my family.
America became a country in 1776. 300 years would put you 70 years into the future. I feel no guilt for the history of this country, as I had nothing to do with the theft of Indian lands. The Mexican lands however, were NOT stolen, but bought and paid for.
Bruce, the continent is North America, the country is the United States of America.
James, the cry for their deportation is being drowned out by the screaming of insults from the Open Borders Lobby. ALL illegal aliens should be deported, regardless of their country of origin. It’s NOT about race, it’s about LAW.
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Pinestraw your argument would hold water if “Laws” were enforced equally. But let’s be honest the European illeagal you would never know simpled because of race. Pinestraw I would love for the issue to be about right and wrong but I’m sorry to tell you but the xenophobe’s have taken the reins of this debate.
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
James,
There is NO WAY to tell if anyone is illegal based on the color of their skin. Anyone that thinks they can is a moron. American citizens come in all flavors and shades. That is why enforcement must be done through employment, not racial profiling.
I thought Chip Rogers did a fantastic job ‘taking the reins of this debate.’ Do you consider him a ‘xenophobe’?
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
Chip Rogers Pinestraw is a politican and I trust politicans about as far as I can see him!
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
James,
That’s all well and good, but the question was ‘Do you consider him a ‘xenophobe’?
By regularjoe
April 2, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
Illegal immigration is a problem for this country. We may disagree about the seriousness of the issue, but before anyone says it it is not a problem at all, please do some homework before you post.
As far as the flags, as a veteran I personally like to fly our U.S. Flag often at my home. I also have small U.S. flags on my vehicles. I don’t mind folks with their little Irish, Mexican, Canadian or other little flags to show a little ethnic pride. What happened at these marches was way overboard. Many of these people want to be Mexicans in American, Not Mexican-American.
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Pinestraw the only thing I know about Chip Rogers is that he represents Northeast Cobb County and parts of Cherrokee. You tell me why I show have faith in his point of view?
By regularjoe
April 2, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Mexicans in America, sorry :)
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
I am not asking you to have faith in anything. You made the statement that ‘xenophobes’ had taken the reins of this debate. I’m simply asking you if you think Chip Rogers is a ‘xenophobe’. I use Mr. Rogers as the example because he sponsored Senate Bill 529, which simply requires that existing laws be enforced in Georgia.
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
The Government chooses to enforce the laws on the books when it good to do so in their favor. What took Chip Rogers so long to want to enforce the law?(He’s been in office since 1996) Every political move that Chip Rogers make is because he’s reading the pluse of people in his district,which is not exactly liberal! And I’m willing to bet my last nickle that xenophobe’s are in abundances.
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
As a representative of the people, I believe that is his job.
Over 80% of Georgians want the laws enforced, and any good politician should realize that much. Are you implying that 80% of Georgians are ‘xenophobes’?
By James McCoy
April 2, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
Pinestraw are you sure you are not a paid opertive for THE FOX NEWS CHANNEL?LOL To classify 80% of Georgians as xenophones would be ignorance gone wild. But I do realize and know that a whole lot of people in Georgia are not on the diveristy bandwagon.
By PinestrawGuy
April 2, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
Diversity is fine with me, as a multi-racial person it would be foolish for me to feel any differently.
But this conversation is not about diversity, it’s about ILLEGAL immigration and the wage depression a million extra workers causes in this state.
Maybe that means I’m a xenophobe, but I doubt it.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 2, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this
PinestrawGuy ‘of America’ is the key word here, you can walk down an American street in Canada, Mexico, Peru, do I need to go on?
And what 80% of Georgians may want isn’t what the majority in this country want, thankfully.
The only reasom this has become the major issue for Republicans is to deflect from the war and the scandals, otherwise it would have stayed on the back burner.
By regularjoe
April 2, 2006 09:56 PM | Link to this
Mr. Wilcox the Pinestraw guy said 80% of Georgians want the (laws enforced).
You say it isn’t what the majority in this country want, thankfully (laws enforced). Please back that up.
By Michael H. Smith
April 2, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this
Flags of Mexico waved in protest or as many in America will see this as a symbol of an occupying foreign force declaring the take over of a sovereign country, either way it really will not matter now. The votes in Congress have already been as good as cast, especially in the Senate (and that happened long before this protest began), call it guest worker or simply call it perpetual amnesty.
Hope you can recall my answers Mr. Badie to your questions in regards to Prof. Huntington’s essay? This is one time in my life I’d be eternally grateful to be proven wrong about the final outcome.
Learn Spanish and get acquainted with the third world. ¡Adiós Estados Unidos!
By Wilbur Froeh
April 2, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this
Pinestraw Man—-you need skills man. Why would I want to pay you $22/hr when I can get the same work done for $12?
Are you proud of our history of slavery and stealing the indians land?
With an attitude like yours, the road ahead is going to get very rough..
Get some skills that pay real money. Dental hygenist make $30+/hour. Start a construction business and put the Amigoes to work. Teach school. Lots of excellent paying jobs out there for flexible people. Learn heating and A/C, plumbing, diesel mechanics. Long haul drivers make $60-70K with benefits. Body and fender man can make $100K. Mercedes mechanics pull in $200K.
Get with it bro.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 2, 2006 11:40 PM | Link to this
regularjoe - NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll - Pew Research Center - CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Funny how you never asked PinestrawGuy the same?
By Deborah Lee
April 3, 2006 06:55 AM | Link to this
Sí, dice bueno adiós a la clase media y el comienzo que toman las lecciones españolas.
By Regularjoe
April 3, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this
Mr. Wilcox you backed up Pinestraw guy yourself. You said quote “And what 80% of Georgians may want isn’t what the majority in this country want, thankfully.” He was refering to the enforcement of illegal immigration laws.
Since you made the claim that most in this country support non-enforcement of illegal immigration laws, prove it. The information you provided only disproves your point. Provide a link so we know that it is not just your opinion.
By Jan Houston
April 3, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Say, Bruce what exactly does the Flag of America look like?????
WE are talking about the Flag of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!! Stop your flap long enough to know What we are talking about - and it is true, they did not just wave the flag at these immigration rallies, they were shoving them in people’s faces - Causing a big riff right there, anyway the rest of you must try to educate Brucie, I’m going to the beach and I have cookies in the oven!!!
By Bruce Wilcox
April 3, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
Hey Janie what part of “And techniality they are flying an American flag” couldn’t you grasp? These were in reference to what Rick must have believed were clever lines like, “Many participants waved and wrapped themselves in their ancestral flags. Mexican flags were prominent, as were those of other Latin countries”. “come here for a piece of the American dream”,” then march down an American street”. I closed with, “Now who is being arrogant Rick?”, after reading the responses maybe I should add ignorant.
Regularjoe it has become clear that neither you or the PinestrawGuy know how to read polls, even the one Rick printed. I offer this example, Rick wrote, “more than 80 percent of respondents thought it was important for the Georgia Legislature to deal with illegal immigration.”, yet the two of you say it said, “He was refering to the enforcement of illegal immigration laws.”
There is nothing better for the soul than a good laugh in the morning, I thank you for providing it.
By Janet
April 3, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
One thing that struck me as I watched the immigration protest marches was this: If things in Mexico are so bad, why aren’t there protest marches like this in Mexico against the Mexican government?
The United States has a booming economy and a stable government, because it is a nation of laws. Foreign companies are fighting each other for the chance to invest in America because doing business in America is above-board and for the most part, regulated, controlled and operates within the laws.
The Mexican government is corrupt at every level, from the smallest police department to the highest levels of the national government. You would think that with one of the world’s largest available workforces, businesses would be lining up to invest in Mexican industries. To do business in Mexico, however, you pay the Mordida, (the bite) at every step of the way. Want a telephone? Want to register your car? You pay a bribe. It’s so pervasive and so widely accepted, it’s a built-in cost of doing business in Mexico.
In Mexico City, even after paying the bribe, it takes so long to get a telephone installed and get a listing, that the Mexico City phone book is known locally, as the Book of The Dead. Why, then would any large business want to set up shop in Mexico? Who would want to live there?
Mexican families paid $2.3 billion in bribes in 2001 to receive public services — from getting phone service to obtaining exception from military service — a sum equivalent to about one percent of Mexico’s gross domestic product. In a country where the average annual income is $9,000, the average family paid over a $100 in bribes each year.
The Mexican government has it’s fingers into everything due to the fact that many industries have been nationalized, such as the oil industry. Again, by doing this, the government has deprived Mexico of much-needed foreign capital and investment and politicians profit by skimming the till.
The nationalization of industries and trade restrictions, caused wages to drop dramatically and finally, the economy all but collapsed in the mid-90’s. If there are millions of Mexicans pouring into America, it’s because their government ruined their economy and there are no jobs for them in Mexico. Mexicans need to hold their government accountable and demand an end to government corruption and incompetence at every level. They need to demonstrate under the Mexican flag in MEXICO and change their government to make it work within the law instead of coming here and trying to import their culture of working outside the law to our culture.
By Jan Houston
April 3, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
I am the one Laughing and by the way, Brucie, your proctologist called, he found your head!!!
By Bruce Wilcox
April 3, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Oh Jan I deeply wounded by your clever retort.
By The Momma
April 3, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Oh Bruce, you are not, and you know that was funny…………. have a lovely day!
By Bruce Wilcox
April 3, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this
Come on The Momma remember what I said, ” There is nothing better for the soul than a good laugh”, we just can’t let Jan know.
By Mike
April 3, 2006 09:27 PM | Link to this
This guy Bruce is funny. Mexican flag is american. Wow. Almost as good as when Clinton argued the meaning of the word “is” during the Lewinski stuff.
By Eddie
April 3, 2006 10:19 PM | Link to this
I agree with Janet. My family and myself are of Mexican descent with only my immediate family, excluding my mother, born here in the states. If people want to protest that’s fine it’s our birthright, but if you want to prove a point do it the right way. When I see people celebrating the flag of another government I am confused. The whole point is people wanting to stay in this great country. I live in Dallas, TX, and witnessed quite a few Mexican flags being waved by what appeared as children of immigrants, and it doesn’t make any sense. All the protesters are against being sent or having family friends sent back, but yet they still wave the flag. I only wish we, as a nation, would stand up against out-sourcing. I mean we really don’t have to worry about illegals taking our jobs, when they’re are ready being given away. Finally, I’ve been “fortunate” enough to grace a few construction sites and witnessed a few of the jobs Americans, natural citizens of USA, don’t want. I am now convinced we don’t want these jobs because we can’t live on 10-15 dollars an hour. I mean who can believe an electrician only makes $12/hour. After all, only so many of us can be dental hygenists or still afford to go to the dentist. I am still proud of my Mexican heritage, and the only type of control I want is job & wage control(gas prices would be nice too).
By indocumentado
April 3, 2006 10:48 PM | Link to this
I like Georgia,is more cheap than California,I can live here anymore,is too expensive California,I will take my wife and ninos,6 kids,my aunt,uncles,granpa,granma,sobrinos,nephews,and amigos ,and buy a house in Rosweell,Georgia,I allready find a employer in a taco restaurant in Bufford hwy,amigos,alla voy,going to .!!I am eating a burrito now in celebration.Viva la raza mexicana.
By JH HUDSON
April 3, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this
WELL IN REGARDS TO ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WHO DARES TO ASK HOW IT HAS DIRECTLY AFFECTED ME. IM A NATIVE AMERICAN BORN AND BRED HERE. THE ILLEGAL MEXICANS IN GEORGIA HAVE GOT MY WORK,I HAVE HAD MY WORK FOR 15 YEARS AND HAD IT TAKEN BY ILLEGAL MEXICANS WHO CAME IN AND LOW BID ME.THEY LIVE 3 TO 4 FAMILYS TOGETHER AND SPLIT THE RENT. I DONT LIVE LIKE THAT AND CANT AFFORD TO WORK FOR FREE. AMERICAN VOTERS WILL TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS AT TIME OF VOTING. WE HAVE AN IDIOT IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND SENATOR MCCAIN AND FRIST ARE IDIOTS TOO. DEPORT THE ILLEGALS AND MAKE THEM COME THRU PROPER CHANNELS LIKE ALL IMMIGRANTS. WE SHIP BACK HATIANS AND CUBANS TOO,WHAT MAKES THE MEXICANS BETTER. WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE NOT ABIDING BY OUR AMERICAN LAWS. WAKE UP IMMIGRATION OFFICERS RAID THEIR ILLEGAL PROTEST-THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS THEY ARE ILLEGAL WORKERS AND HAVE BROKEN LAWS TO BE HERE…………..
By Kelley
April 4, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this
The fact of the matter is that many of these people are here illegally. The only reason they are protesting is that they are being threatened with deportation because of their illegal status. So, the next time the government decides to crackdown on drug dealing or prostitution, the dealers and prostitutes should protest and then we will all feel sorry for them because after all they are just trying to make a living - even if it is not legally?
By Juan Hill
April 4, 2006 02:56 AM | Link to this
Hello James McCoy,
The Europeans illegals don’t get much attention because they are mostly in traditional immigrant cities like NYC, Boston, Philly, and Chicago. They don’t have large number scattered around the country. They are mostly invisible because they look like white americans and kind of blend in.
I live in Chicago and know that we have a large Easterm Europeans population and some are illegal. They ladies that cleans my condo are Polish and does not speak english. If I need something different I have to call the office and someone will translate. They guys that installed by granite counter top were Eastern Europeans. One was about 25 and had just arrived and didn’t speak that much english. I don’t ask if he was illegal ;).
They exist but only in certain places.
Juan
By Ralph
April 4, 2006 07:27 AM | Link to this
Senator Rogers and the rest of the GOP are complete fools. I pray each day that these fools are removed from office and a more sensible, moderate Democratic party is elected to control the state capitol. Instead of taking up stupid issues, the wacko GOP should (but they cannot because they don’t care for anyone other than rich america) pass legislation that will make America better. Cracking down on illegals certainly won’t make things better.
By Barbara
April 4, 2006 07:54 AM | Link to this
Once again…. As Teddy Roosevelt so aptly put it: “In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
By Melllllll1
April 4, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
I don’t think it’s the people living here “illegally” (so to speak) that we need to concentrate on. I think it’s the a* backwards government bureaucracy of someone becoming an American citizen we need to address.
By Souldrift
April 4, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this
Pinestraw, and others—until we control the DEMAND of American corporations for cheap labor, below minimum wage in many cases—we’ll never stop the SUPPLY of immigrants who want the opportunity.
Simple truth. Yes, they’re here illegally, and we should have better border control and a streamlined process for legal immigration. That’s all fine, but if the corporations and small businesses are willing to hire day laborers and others without verifying employment status, the immigrants will crawl under or around any wall that’s built. Mark my words.
By dg
April 4, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this
Getting back to the flag issue… I think that Latin Americans that are protesting in the US are waving flags other than that of the US flag more as a symbol of solidarity than out of disprespect for the US. If they didn’t want to become legal residents of the US they wouldn’t be out there protesting.
It is true that there is a level of corruption in many Latin American countries that far exceeds the manageable corruption that we US citizens encounter. It could be that many Latin Americans feel helpless to change anything about the corruption in their country of origin so they choose to leave rather than fight. I think it is similar to the response that many US corporations have taken to the oppressive tax code and government regulation that exists in the US. It’s just easier to leave and do business elsewhere than to fight in the US.
By Rob D
April 4, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this
Well lets get into the legal issues here. Since we want to go back and arrest these criminal illegals, lets get the rest of the criminals that have slipped through the cracks. Lets send every black person back to Africa since we were stolen and brought here, lets condemn and use eminent domain to reclaim all the land that was farmed and tilled by slaves, lets reclaim all the profits from big business whose foundation was built on the backs of slaves. But like most white people say” I had nothing to do with that time:, you must be kidding me. If thats the case then you must renounce the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and so on. And you say oh there is another black guy complaining, you are damn right I am, but maybe thats because when I search for my history it leads me to a great ancestor that is listed as personal property, right next to the farm animals for Mr. Slaveholder. Wake Up America, this is a divided land and if you live in Atlanta you definetely know that.
By dorae
April 4, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this
What a problem we have created for ourselves. It is nice to know that we are still considered to be a land of opportunity. If we weren’t we wouldn’t have so many people moving to this nation.
I belive we should enforce the law. We elected the politicians and they wrote the law. If we don’t like the law then we need to change the law.
That being said… Let’s be real. We are not going to be able to deport illegals. There are too many of them and they are a part of our lives in one way or another.
“it’s not fair” when most of our families came here legally. Yet, I don’t see how one would in reality enforce the law in this instance. Therefore, we adjust the law. In my humble opinion, we need to compromise. We need some type of program, call it any name you want to, that will list the illegals already here so that they can be taxed and pay for the benefits that their families receive. Just like the rest of us. Then if we are going to have immegration laws we need to tighten the borders for real.
I don’t understand why there is such an uproar about enforcing the laws. It is my understanding that in Mexico you are not allowed to work unless you are Mexican and they will enforce that law. You may even be imprisoned for working. There is a double standard at work here.
This is just one overly simplified thought on this issue.
By T
April 4, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
If we fail to address this issue properly, it will spell doom for the United States of America as we know it. Throughout history, the whole point of a nation is identity, civic pride, and social community. When you try to hold together a nation with several different sub-groups with different languages, different cultures, etc. then what is the point of being a nation? Unless resolved, this problem will only lead to civil strife. Of course, there are several solutions to this problem all of which have been discussed throughout this debate, so I won’t rehash all of them here.
What will happen when our economy takes a down turn? What are all of these unskilled, uneducated, people that can’t speak English going to do? Are we still going to allow them to stay? Are we still going to allow them to continue to take advantage of our welfare, medical, and educational systems at the expense of the rest of us? At that point is when the more difficult problems will come, and I think it will be hard to solve them in a peaceful, humane manner.
Our country, and western civilization in general, has become soft/weak (on a variety of issues including immigration). For those of you who call it progress or don’t agree, we’ll see where we stand in 2050, but I don’t think it will be pretty. A strand of me is still trying to remain optimistic, but it’s barely hanging on…
By modest
April 4, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
What big businesses are still operating today that were built on the “foundation of slaves”? You logic is severely flawed in saying “us white folk should own up to what our people did or denounce the constitution. WTF? These are the most erroneous arguments I have ever heard. You are race bating trying to get a rise out of people. Shame on you.
By CA
April 4, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
BRUCE, WHAT IS TECHNIALITY?MAYBE YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS BLOG!
By dg
April 4, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
CA, I really think that people that scream with all caps should not be on this blog. It’s one thing to have a difference of opinion but quite another to scream in one’s face over a technicality.
By Bruce Wilcox
April 4, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
dg, the screaming just proves my point, it seems to be a comprehension problem. As I pointed in the very first comments Rick’s use of the word American, either intentional or not, displayed the arrogance that many share as citizens.
Rick even referred to ” of other Latin countries”, not the proper term of Latin American countries. Don’t they teach world geography in Georgia? It’s no wonder we’re at the bottom of the heap in education.
By cc
April 4, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Everyone is forgetting that they are here ILLEGALLY! They don’t want to obey the laws of the land and if we are not careful whites will become the minorities and everyone will have to learn to speak spanish. Blacks will become third class citizens. Why isn’t there a protest of americans who have voted these people into office and asking them why don’t we count.
By cc
April 4, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
In order to get rid of the Illegals is to fine the employers who hire them. For each illegals fine them $20,000 each. And if they don’t fired them within a certain time period, double the fine. Don’t give them any State or Federal aid. Also children borned of Illegals take on their status of Illegals. I am so sick of having to support these people with my hard earned money and being taxed high because of them. If they want to change the country they should start with the country they came from.
By Eva
April 5, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
Pinestraw thanks for the link, That only proves these protesters don’t want to embrace our country. I do feel badly for the Mexican people there country is corrupt, the life style is horrible I understand why they want to leave. What I don’t understand is the flying of their counties flag and the pride behind the land they risked their lives to leave. I’m not an Indian but I am a native, I was born, raised, worked, and made a life here. At one point im my families history my family came from other countries to get here. Do I show the pride of their native land? Heck no, if it wasn’t good enough for them, that they to risked their lives to get here, why would I embrace those countries?
Rob D I have lived with the fact that the white man enslaved the black people. But please go back just a little further and tell me who sold the black slaves to the white man in the very beginning? Before hating the white race also take into consideration there where also good white men that fought to set them free. The whole slavery history is horrible and sick, it aces me to think a human being could be treated in such a way. I also want you to remember black people are not the only people that were enslaved though out the world. We can’t change history. We can only move on a do better. I am sick of being blamed for what my ancestors did.
By Eva
April 5, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
I need to make myself clear, I have much pity for those here and I can only imagine the fear of being sent back. There are no easy answers on what should be done. If we let them all stay it takes from the legals, it does affect us very much fact is fact. But on the other hand these are human being and they have not the American right but the human right to a productive life. The only answer I can come up with is if our country gave them the resources and knowledge to rise up against their own government and make there home lands a place they would want to raise their families and make a life. As I see it, it’s the only long term answer. How long will our natural resources last if emigration continues at the rate it has. there is so much to consider, but doing nothing is only going to contribute to the fall of this country. A hand up is so much more valueable then a hand out..
By PinestrawGuy
April 9, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
The Immigration Debate
As the Senate packs their bags to come home for the Easter ‘recess’, (an apt word for the childish cretins currently occupying Capitol offices), I must admit to a certain amount of incredulity at the offerings of our esteemed leaders in regards to ‘immigration reform’. Anyone with a mouse can find out that 80% of American citizens are FED UP with the status quo, and want our CURRENT laws enforced.
Yes that’s right, HR4437 changes NO current law, except to increase the consequence of coming here illegally in the first place. It requires a border fence in high-traffic areas and enforcement in the workplace. We’re using fences already, and where they are used they are effective. Worksite enforcement has been the law since 1986, it just hasn’t been enforced very much. The penalties for aid organizations have gotten no worse. They haven’t changed a bit, actually, and have also been the law since 1986.
Here in Georgia, SB 529 does nothing more than affirm current US law, and refuses tax dollars to those who are not legally residing in our State. When the law says “Deport illegal aliens”, do we need the Supreme Court to know what that means? I don’t think so.
Americans come from all over the world. They’ve been doing it for 2 centuries, making us the greatest nation in the history of the world. America is the most welcoming country in the world, and admits more people to it’s shores than all other nations COMBINED.
But today’s rhetoric in the ‘immigration debate’ speaks more to the accommodation of big business, who’ve never met a cheap worker they didn’t like, regardless of how many criminals come across the border with them, than to the representation of plain-old American citizens. Mr. And Mrs. John Q. Citizen have had all we can take of this nonsense.
The men who wrote our most precious documents 230 years ago pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to create this wonderful place called America. Over these past 230 years, hundreds of thousands of Americans have given their lives to the preservation of our ‘Grand Experiment’. Will you sell your citizenship, your birthright, for $2000? Is it for sale at ANY PRICE? If so, we might as well delete the borders and put out the ‘For Rent’ sign, because we’ve just turned ourselves into the North American Hotel and Day Labor Center.
There’s 35 million, folks, whether you want admit it or not, and America, as we know it, is NOT what they’re interested in. Assimilation is NOT what they want. A cursory glance at the protest flags and signs should show you that. The destruction of American Sovereignty is what they’re interested in, and the re-conquest of their mythical Aztlan. See the pictures
By RWH
April 14, 2006 08:21 AM | Link to this
Our Federal laws must never go without being enforced! For those who have done so they to must be held accountable to the fullest. Know one must mislead themselves thinking that they can disobey laws and not be punished for it. We have a land full of things for America Citizens to do and to move forward in making homes and providing a good life for their families; it comes with the rights for them to do so. Many are feeling the heat; but that heat has been here long before now; however, the heat has gotten so hot that its making many of the American citizens to take note that this long and drawn out illegal immigration has swamp all of to a point that it cause it to be a race issue. It is not, it is a issue that concerns every American Citizen and no matter what status you are! Those who wish to enter this country must make an reservation; take a number; wait in line like other have done! Without doing so; they will be looking over their shoulders and running from the laws for the rest of their lives. Illegal means you broke the INS Laws.