Rick Badie / My Opinion

By Becky

January 24, 2006 07:41 AM | Link to this

What a wonderful idea, Rick. Make those that are responsible for the tagging, clean it up. Of course we know that their mamas will be out their telling us what good boys they are and it wasn’t really their fault. They are 16 and say that they need something to do. Get a job!

By Jim

January 24, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

Bravo Rick. I agree 100% with you. Those arrogant brats should be made to clean any and all grafitti found in Gwinnett County, and definitely it should be done on weekends. I would also make sure that they are not just enrolled in school, but are attending their classes.

Also, I would take it one step further. The parents ought to be forec to help clean all the grafitti. I bet those little angels get straightened out real quick.

By Shaun

January 24, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this

Rick, The area you are speaking about has long been run down with crime and violence. I lived in Norcross years ago, but got out before the dead beats moved in. That area is mostly Latino and the gang activity is present all throughout Jimmy Carter Ave. Where are these thugs coming from?

By Gatorrrrrr

January 24, 2006 08:36 AM | Link to this

I currently live in the vicinity that this is referring to. While the area does seem to have seen better days, the neighborhood is not totally lost. Thankfully, the SWGCID is breathing an air of hope for a better future. Will a face lift correct the issue? No.. but it will help. I dont think the problem is necessarily the demographic make up but instead lackluster parenting. That is the thorn in the side of our present day culture. People are reproducing that just have no business reproducing. Obviously “Spooky” and “Kelor” are prime examples of the products of present day parenting.

Clean up should only be 1/3 of these kids “punishment”.

2/3 - These kids should be mandated to spend 1 hour after school tutoring with each of their “core curriculum” teachers. Core curriculum being math, science, english, and history. On top of that.. they should be required to participate in one extra curricular activity outside of the normal class schedule. This does not mean they get an auto bid to any sports team or band or anything that would require a audition or try out. There are plenty of other activities they can participate in that does not require a try out. They must also “actively” participate, in other words just showing up as a bump on a log isnt enough, they must engage in the activity itself. They did say they were bored after all.

3/3 - They obviously like to paint. Why not put that to use. During the school year, they should be required to perform 8 hours of community service - to the Southwest Gwinnett Community Improvement District - to help clean up trash and assist with beautification projects. During the summer, increase that to 30 hrs a week of community service to the same organization.

Anytime they do not meet any of those requirements, they should have to spend one nite in jail for each offense. So lets say during the summer they miss 5 hours of their 30 for the week…. they get 1 night in jail. End of story. After three missed occurrences, its one night in jail for the kid… and for the parent.

This should be a mandate for judges for all minors involved in “minor” offenses.

If parents dont like this.. then I have two comments for them.

1) Then start parenting. They are a product of YOUR environment 90% of the time. You act irresponsibly and undisciplined… so will they. 2) If you dont like it, you should have thought about that before you had a kid in the first damn place.

Gatorrrrrr http://gatorrrrrr.blogspot.com

By tom 60

January 24, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

Whenever there is no grafitti to remove (as if that could exist) get them to remove the illegal signage, the litter, etc. on rights-of-way.

By fessa

January 24, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

AMEN to your suggestion. In other major cities, the vandals - isn’t that what they really are - are required to clean their work along with other sites.

In reference to the person’s remark about Latinos, dead beats ‘n’ such…were these kids Latino? Weren’t THEIR parents dead beats? And since when is it accurate to generalize to a population based on the actions of a few? If that were rational, it’d be easy to categorize all groups for the actions of a few rotten apples.

In reference to their punishment, I also agree with the suggestions below. Is it possible to forward them to the authorities? By the way, what’s the latest on these guys anyway?

One last thing…since when do parents blindly trust what their kids say? What happened to checking up on kids? Making sure that you talk to the other kid’s parents to make sure everything is legit? And since when can kids just go to a concert all willy nilly?

By Becky

January 24, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

Do you really think that all kids with access to the parks and pools go out and enjoy them? Of course not. There are kids in my neighborhood who look for things to destroy and then want to blame it on having nothing to do. Again, it is a case of family values. If the family doesn’t value anything that doesn’t directly belong to them then it is open game. Notice that they wrote on building that belonged to individuals. They wrote on apartments when means they wrote on someone’s home. They have no respect for anything.

Do you really think that this is going to destroy their lives? They are 16. We will be lucky if the judge gives them community service. Most likely, they will get a slap on the wrist.

By kellyp

January 24, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Jim,

Besides the irrisponsible parents having to help in the clean up the punks/parents must pay for the paint and supplies required in the clean up process.

Shaun,

The problem is not Latinos as you put it (and sound racist). But rather the renters. Renters who come in all skin colors and ethnicities have no sense of ownership and often treat the properties with contempt damage what they don’t own. They teach those behaivors to their children.

Look at a townhouse development and you can very easily tell the difference between owners and renters by the garbage and quality of cars.

Gatorrrrr,

Most of your ideas sound good but you are punishing the teachers by requiring them to spend extra time with these students.

tom,

Also a great idea of forcing the punks to clean up the illegal and ugly signs all over the county.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 24, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

All kids, what about the majority that would? Don’t you think that kids still like baseball, riding bikes and playing with friends? This starts long before they reach their teenage years help kids be kids. And if you think that bored teens who look for things to destroy just happen in the area mentioned you really don’t get out much.

The area in question is mosty a two parent working class neighborhood, not many soccer moms to run their little darlings around. So instead of parks let us just build a detention center, that will solve the problem.

By Ken Myers

January 24, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

This idea makes sense. That’s also why it will NOT be done. We can’t do anything that makes sense in this world. I can also see the ACLU getting involved saying that this is cruel and unusual punishment. What’s so cruel and unusual about making people accountable for their actions?

By Becky2

January 24, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

I was just giving you an example of what happens around here. I am smart enough to know that it happens in a lot of places all over the world. I have even seen tagging in some of the better areas of Gwinnett county.

Do you really think that the majority of teenagers want a place to play outside? I worked with middle school kids for over 20 years. I just retired so I am not that much out of touch. They would much rather be inside playing a video game, watching tv, hanging out at the mall, or talking on the phone. Physical activity doesn’t appeal to many of them. Yes, there are some that want to play baseball or basketball and there should be a place for them but in a lot of areas this turns into a place where troublemakers (gang members and drug dealers) like to hang out. When groups of teens get together without direction or supervision, trouble is sure to follow.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 24, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Becky2 in this years budget they’re hiring more parks employees than police officers, so what you wrote may be true. But I’m from a Northern city where they ignored the problem for years and naturally it got worse. When a new administration came in they tried a different route by giving the area more attention, Boys Clubs, civil organizations, schools and churches all got involved, it worked, it was an amazing change.

One simple and cheap idea were pocket parks that were well lit at night and the neighbors kept a close eye on them for the gangs and drugs wouldn’t move in.

The question is, is the effort worth it, or do we just keep ignoring it?

I’ll end it here, I have to watch what I write.

By Gatorrrrrr

January 24, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Gatorrrrr,

Most of your ideas sound good but you are punishing the teachers by requiring them to spend extra time with these students.

This is an entirely different arguement… so Ill just keep my reply at this.

They are teachers. It is their job anyway. Im willing to bet these boys (and most other kids) probably are lucky to get a C.

By Becky2

January 24, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, teaching is their job. However, staying after school for 1 hour tutoring with kids is not part of their job.

By Shaun

January 24, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this

Kellyp, I am not a racist, I am black… But the problem as I see it is the Latino’s who let their kids run all through out the night, doing only God knows what.. The language barrier is also a major part of this problem. I feel if you come here you should speak English!

By Nan

January 24, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Too bad we can’t apply this principle to corporate wrongdoers. When the citizens of Florida passed a law to make companies clean up their on toxic damages, the Court threw the law out. hmmm - kids just learning from adults, huh?

By Lilburn Parent

January 24, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr. Badie, I was surprised to know that the “taggers” read the AJC. After the campaign to clean up the graffiti in South Gwinnett last year… At the BP station (closed) at Indian Trail & Beaver Ruin… “SPOOKY” one of the “taggers” wrote F*ck the AJC. I hope that Detective E.S. Osterberg, and Jason Summers know about that defacing as well.
They should pay a fine (large one) and clean the wall they defaced.

By Eric

January 24, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

I’m amazed at the amount of racisim being spewed on this blog. It’s so easy to blame someone else instead of looking for solutions to the problems. I believe these kids should be held responsible for their actions, they should have to clean up their own messes. And yes, parenting has changed dramatically over the years. It’s easy to say that the parents are at fault, and yes they certainly should take some of the responsibility. But keep in mind, in years past a home was mostly made up of a working father and a stay at home mother. These days that is unlikely. Why is that? Because everything is priced out of reach, but especially home prices. So both parents must work to provide for their family. Someone made a comment that it was the fault of renters. Unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, all of us were most likely renters at one time. So again, broad generalizations that place blame on someone else is not the answer. All of us should look inward to our families and how we teach morals and ethics. As a community we should reach out to our neighbors and lend a hand in watching out for our communial youth. Today we live in close quarters, yet we are miles apart from each other. We used to know our neighbors first names and backgrounds. Now we are lucky to see our neighbors. This is not an us vs. them problem, we all need to take responsibility. Placing blame on others without first reviewing your own parenting for areas of improvement makes you a hypocrit. Parenting starts in your home…where are your kids?

By flibberdigibbit

January 24, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Having voluntarily supervised teens while they removed their spraypainted scrawls from the surface of South Dekalb’s Arabia mountain, I honestly think that many kids honestly feel they are creatively expressing themselves.

At least based on what kids often tell me when I inquire about their reasons for defacing public or private property.

Intuitively, I can’t help but assume their parents must have opted for the Playstation instread of paper and crayons at baby’s first Christmas, then left them to be babysat by the TV and never once took them to an art museum.

I agree, make the kids clean-up their acts, but someone make sure they return home from their community service by way of a guided tour of the High Museum. Oh, and give them a paper and some pencils for self-expression.

By Swangirl

January 24, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Expressing themselves, eh? Bored? Wow. Well, they can surely start their own HOME- BASED gallery or find something more constructive to do.

So they like painting? Send them over to Hands on Atlanta for days when they’re cleaning up a neighborhood center or school in need of painting and landscaping. I think that would keep them busy for a long, long time.

As for bad parenting, it comes in all colors/races/creeds as does vandalism. It wasn’t so long ago there was a problem with teens destroying mailboxes in wealthy mostly white Forsyth Co. neighborhoods. Teens with nobody giving them boundaries are everywhere, not just Norcross.

By Lilburn Parent

January 24, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

@flibberdigibbit: You said “Having voluntarily supervised teens while they removed their spraypainted scrawls from the surface of South Dekalb’s Arabia mountain, I honestly think that many kids honestly feel they are creatively expressing themselves.” news flash they are defacing property. It is NOT creative expression. The cocky “dopes” are writing their names!

In fact the two in question… each time I have seen their work it is just a name. I think they like writing their name without getting caught.

I recall visiting NY and they have some “world class” graffiti. I mean nice murals using spray paint. The work of real artists. This is creative expression… used to “deface property”.

By Lilburn Parent

January 24, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

@Swangirl: I agree with you!

We have had problems in our neighborhood. Garbage cans in the pool, bathroom doors kicked in, picnic tables defaced with vulgar comments, tennis courts vandalized.

We have enlisted the “stay-at-home” mothers, retired neighbors, and those home during the hours of 1:00-5:00.

We encourage them to report any vandalism, and to call the police. For a long time we thought it was the high schoolers… turns out it is the “middle schoolers”.

We busted a couple of them. We intend to prosecute to set an example. These are middle-class kids from families with nice looking homes. I don’t know anything about their family life. A fair amount of the vandalism occurred on the way home from school.

BTW… they are caucasian. I guess skin color & nationality doesn’t matter! Can you believe that?

I think some of these kids destroy property for “sport / entertainment”. This is a personal choice. I don’t blame the parents for this. I blame the “rotten” kids that make poor choices!

My dad used to say “an idle mind is a devils workshop”.

By Daphne

January 24, 2006 06:10 PM | Link to this

Thank you Rick for the great idea. I have often wondered why these young people feel the need to deface property that does not belong to them. Do they realize what an invasion of someone else’s space that is? Do they realize that the property they deface is most likely owned by someone that has to work hard to have it? That the neighborhoods and businesses they feel the need to express themselves on do not belong to them? Did they pay the mortgage or the taxes? They should have to clean it up! My goodness! I am a parent and if I want to teach my children responsibility then I would make them clean it up. I would watch while they did. Does it occur to these children (they are children) that it is just wrong?! Did anyone tell them it is just wrong? I expect children to make mistakes. That is what chilhood is for. But if we do not learn from those mistakes it is a shame. If they ARE sorry, they will do the right thing with the encouragement of their families. If they stepped up and did the right thing, there is a good lesson learned.

By Tim Crawley

January 24, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

Wow!Rick that was some article it made me think of when I was a kid vandalizing property because it was fun to me and my friends at that time.I agree with you a hundred percent they should have to cleanup the tags they did plus 120hrs of community service.The reason I say this many hours is when I was not in harmony with the law,thats how I learned my lesson.Where I don’t agree with you is making them cleanup other taggers work,reason being the other taggers might get offended and hurt one of them or worse yet start tagging stuff in there names everywhere to keep them in trouble. The last thing I have to say isn’t even about your article,it’s about the racist comments from your readers,where do they getoff saying the kids are latino just by where the crimes take place thats the problem with Gwinnett everybody wants to blame everyone else insteading helping out or just caring.

Tim Crawley

By flibberdigibbit

January 24, 2006 11:27 PM | Link to this

Lilburn Parent, your assuming that at some point somebody taught these ‘cockey dopes’ right from wrong, was this in our public daycare system or by the adults who downloaded the latchkey kids only to be looked-after by whatever nonsense they can find to amuse themselves until their parents see fit to call them home?

These are 13 - 15 year boys I’m talking about, not reprobate punks. At least not, yet, anyway.

But I like your “Hands on Atlanta” idea. Not just to keep them busy and out of trouble, but to give them a sense of ownership and purpose in something bigger than themselves. Maybe the juvenile courts could even demand their parents participate, too.

By Pablo

January 25, 2006 02:30 AM | Link to this

All of this started when the psycho-babbling idiots started saying that making children accountable for their actions would hurt their self esteem and scar them for life. I have to say about all this is that if my son is ever caught defacing public property or doing any other illegal activity, being caught by the police will be the least of his problems; because since I have taught him right from wrong, I will FORCE him to face the consequences of his actions IN FULL! He would rather face jail than having to face my anger. I don’t believe in the psycho-babble. LOVE, paired with STRICT DISCIPLINE is the way to have children who do not resort to these types of behaviors. Extreme? No. It’s called parenting… Anyone who would think that punishing a child is damaging to his or her self esteem needs to realize that jails are full of people whose self esteem was protected at all costs by negligent parents.

By LG

January 25, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this

Parenting is not the final answer. If it were, then there wouldn’t be “black sheep of the families”. We’ve all seen that happen time and time again. The kids are good except one but they were raised by the same parents. If we took personalities out of the equation, parenting would be the final answer.

I came from a strict family, and we all rebelled one way or another, except for one of my brothers. My sister started smoking in 8th grade. My oldest brother and I both started getting drunk at 16 (the legal drinking age at the time was 18). Strict caused more problems than solved.

Permissiveness doesn’t work either.

But I do think there is a happy place in the gray area between the extremes that does work. I parent towards the needs of each of my kids. And as a result, I have two great kids (so other adults and teachers tell me all the time). I’ve been a single mom for the last ten years also.

I give more credit to my kids though than my parenting. They have good personalities and good souls. I don’t know if I could handle a black sheep.

By Paul Allen

January 25, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this

I would heartily invite all of the interested bloggers to come out and actively help us to make things better in Gwinnett. We’ve spent many years in cleaning up graffiti (yes, including hits from this band of idiots), illegal signage (see www.truckloadbunch.org) and assorted “cultural based” zoning issues. There’s no need to run and hide - we can fix it!

By oldteacher

January 25, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

Excellent website, Paul. I did notice a couple of blogger there who cry the everybody but me cry by trying to justify why they should be allowed to trash the county with their illegal signs. Keep up the good work. I wish that those people I see putting up the signs were forced to take them down themselves.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

I don’t see anyone trying to justify what they did, it was illegal and they got caught. Now two teens will have a felony on their records for the rest of their lives. Hardly a reason to gloat like Mr. Badie and others are.

What I think is unfair is Mr. Badie’s glee that the two who contacted him and attempted to explain it was their own form of protest of the counties neglect of the teens and children in the area in question. I don’t know the reason for Mr. Badie not including in the comments made in his earlier columns.

I have writen on the lack of parks in the area many times before. The county can spend millions behind closed doors to buy land for future parks in just the right sections of Gwinnett, yet they ignore this one area that is in desperate need of some kind of park or teen center.

The felons even mentioned buying up one of the many abandoned stores along Jimmy Carter and turn it into a teen center, makes sense to me. The only park in the area is the Singleton Road Activies Building, a parking lot and a small building that is hardly ever used.

An area that has been ignored and neglected for so long translates into disrespect of it’s residents, yet the majority wonder why there is a lack of respect by teens in the area?

If you think the capture of these two felons will change anything you’re sadly mistaken. By ignoring the underlying problems of the area it will only get worse.

So gloat, dance, blame the renters, not the landlords or should that be slumlords, blame the parents, never the environment that surrounds them and stay safe in your imaginary Donna Reed world.

An aside…two of my comments were accidently removed yesterday as explained by Mr. Badie where I covered the same subject, now it’s stuck at the bottom. But Mr. Badie told me to resubmit, let’s see if the glitch is so selective today.

By Old Ways

January 25, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this

Why not put up cement slabs in a park? Tell the kids that this is theirs and to leave other structures alone. Let the kids “tag” to their heart content. The only drawback will be turf issues. At least this is another solution.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Old Ways believe it or not some cities have done just that and it worked, but they also added basketball courts and play areas for the younger children.

Also the two felons in question were not ‘gang’ taggers, two completely different things.

And I guess in your opinion the only thing the area deserves is concrete slabs, ah yet wonder why there is no respect.

By CG

January 25, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Why not put cement slabs on the parents of those kids. Too stupid to raise them right but still have the ability to have kids! Hey folks, it’s the parents fault for being too selfish and ignorant not to have children who become part of our society then everyone else has to be affected by their rude and unsociable behaviour. Make the the parents help clean up the mess. You parents who don’t pay attention to the movies and music your kids are imbibing in need to wake up!

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

And how does that effect all the good kids in the area mentioned, they still suffer from not having decent parks.

I guess the blame game is easier than facing the facts and addressing the problem.

By Old Ways

January 25, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

Bruce Wilcox, Thank you for your thoughts.

I have heard of other cities that have done such and it worked. That is why I suggested it as part of an solution. I know that there is more to be done then just “Concrete Slabs”. I have other opinion as what can be done. However, others above have covered them. But, by no stretch of the imagination that my only opinion is that “the area only deserves concrete slabs”. Those are your words. I would like to see better parks, clubs for kids to attend and parents being involved.

Regarding respect, I have respect for any area that is willing to come together (community and government) to resolve the real cause of problems. Otherwise, we can just point fingers, assign blame and make more laws.

In the county that I live. When money is tight. The government officials close down the parks and libraries first to save money. I am not even sure that there is a place for kids in this county. But rest assured it would take a hit as well. Then the county wonders why “tagging” is starting to show up.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

Old Ways I apologize, after having two comments removed yesterday and seeing the blame game played out in many of the comments above I’ve become a little testy.

As far as respect for the area mentioned, a group of businessman and community leaders got together with a plan to bring back the Jimmy Carter area to what it once was. Mr. Badie attacked the plan because they had the nerve to call it the Village. So even when groups get together to make real change they still get slammed.

Many don’t realze that by turning up their noses and ignoring the problem it will only get worse. Again I apologize.

By Old Ways

January 25, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Bruce Wilcox, Thank you for the apology. It was not needed. I understand your situation.

I also do not like to see the blame game.

As for, Mr Badie, he is part of the community that I eluded too. As well as any newspaper. I do not know if Mr. Badie offered a solution. If one is going to “slam” others for trying. I hope that the one doing the slamming is taking part to make a change and brings a solution to the table.

As a team member of mine said : “If you are going to complain. You better have a solution. Otherwise you are just griping”.

I think that you and I are on the same page.

Thank you again and for your thoughts.

By Kelor

January 25, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

ummm, yeah, we should go paint over graffiti.

ya know, talk to your fellow good readers and ask them to e-mail me if they get any graffiti. Cause I Haven’t seen any lately.

But they also gotta have all the junk they have all over their yard. Maybe take their car out the yard. and really stop making silly comments about stuff they don’t even know about.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

If this is the real Kelor, it’s not the time to cop out and play the blame game like many of the “fellow good readers”.

You could take the opportunity to apologize and then present your case on the need for a teen center.

Right now you’re just digging, not only for yourself but all the other teens that would benefit from a teen center, a deeper hole.

By Paul Allen

January 25, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this

Yes, Kelor (as if - hope these jerks do some hard time), we also actively work to resolve even “culturally based” zoning issues (parking on front yards, too many people living in small homes, etc.) as well as graffiti (including frequent surveillance activities - almost caught the idiots in question once) and illegal signage issues. You and the other zero activity based bloggers here might someday just realize that you can make a difference, not with a spray can or mere words, but by arising from lazy butts and DOING something positive please to make a difference. We have, it shows, and we’re proud of that. Talk is cheap, just worthless wind - do something constructive or step aside (lead, follow, or get out of the way). You’re either part of the solution or part of the problem, period.

By Anthony

January 25, 2006 07:19 PM | Link to this

Why haven’t I defaced walls with spray paint or damaged lawns? As I was growing up, my dad volunteered me to join him in yard work. Driving a riding mower behind which was a small trailer, He would take me around the neighborhood and its entrance once a year, affording me the opportunity to pick up roadside garbage. I can’t honestly claim that I enjoyed the aforementioned activities. However, I do recognize the importance and long lasting effects thereof. Going through school, I was disgusted when I heard classmates speak of how they had fun driving through someone’s lawn, throwing toilet paper rolls into trees, or spray painting walls. I abhorred such behavior. Never did I engage in it, for I valued the beauty of landscapes, buildings, walls, and even the road’s shoulder. I knew that the upkeep of such things required hard work. I didn’t want to cause anyone unnecessary hard work. Likewise, I didn’t want anyone to increase my workload. I attribute to my respect for public and private property the work that I did. Therefore, I would smile to see a ‘Tagger’ receive a minimum of a hundred hours community service. The community service should involve the restoration of walls that have been vandalized. Completing a hundred hours of community service will likely change the mind of a ‘Tagger’.

By Bruce Wilcox

January 25, 2006 08:37 PM | Link to this

The saddest part of it all is the ‘Taggers’ actions leave the good kids of the area out of the discussion and still without parks.

No question about it the ‘Taggers” should get community service, a felony may be pushing it a little. But by the actions of a few leave the majority looking bad.

What many people forget is the area is question was once the backbone for the county, at one time it was THE tax base. But in this disposable society we just keep building new sub-divisons, new shopping areas and leave the older neighbors to rot. But sooner or later the decay and neglect will keep expanding and eventually take over neighborhoods that people find acceptable now.

Take a look at sections of the City of Atlanta, people are moving back in and restoring the neglected areas, many found out that running away from the city is not worth sitting on I-85 everyday for hours.

So either address the problem now or wait till it comes to you, it’s the communities choice.

By Paul Allen

January 26, 2006 07:03 AM | Link to this

So, Bruce - exactly what have you actually DONE to improve the situation, aside from griping? Just wondering - my group has never met you out in the street getting your hands dirty or at public meetings and such as we have for the past several years. See you soon?

By Robin

January 26, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

Excuse me, but just because you are black, does not mean you are not racist.

You certainly sound racist to me.

Racism is not just something that some White folks have. Any and all races of people can be racist against groups that are different from their own!

By Bruce Wilcox

January 26, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Mr. Allen I didn’t realize that I had to belong to ‘YOUR’ group to remove a sign. How many signs does one have to remove to prove that they got their hands dirty and be accepted by ‘YOUR’ group?

I’ve contacted you by e-mail from your site to give a more detailed picture of the ways I’ve been getting my hands dirty.

I hope you find it acceptable.

By Lilburn Parent

January 26, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

@Bruce Wilcox & Old Ways: You both are pushing for more “parks” or “teen centers”.

The ideas are great in theory. Where exactly would the parks be? Developers have developed just about all that is left in south Gwinnett.

QUESTIONS How would these teens get to these parks? Who will supervise the teens after they get to the parks or teen centers?

Most of Gwinnett is suburban. Public transportation does not go everywhere. Not all teens can afford cars… for that matter a great deal don’t have the bus fares either.

The ideas you suggest work much better in urban America. I mean when you have a park or a teen center in your neighborhood. This allows you to walk or ride a bike there.

I grew up in urban America. Going to the park to hang out worked in our neighborhood. The police station was located right next to the park. There would still be problems.

Given opportunity, and time teens without supervision cut up (drugs, sex, fights, vandalism, etc).

The two teens in question got a charge out of NOT getting caught. SPOOKY wrote on the BP station wall in Norcross “F*CK THE AJC”.

This child’s parents play a role. Failure to follow-up with where your kids ACTUALLY are versus where they say they are going.

I BELIEVE there must be something for the teens that are not involved in organized activities (sports, the arts, church, school clubs, etc).

I am VERY active in my community! I speak with teens A LOT. Typically, they say we’re bored. When asked what do you want to do… they don’t know. It makes me realize that they are still CHILDREN. They need guidance! They will make “good choices” and “bad choices”!

We can be angry about the “bad choices” they make. We have to hold them responsible for the “bad choices”. The mistakes will help make them grow. That is life!

By DOUGH

January 26, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

The only thing that i have to say about this is parents, educators, and others who have influence on these talented youth would realize their potential you might be able to help channel that artistic release to a more positive medium.. I, myself, used to be a tagger as well as one of my closest friends.. Now we get paid to do our tags by companies who want something unique and graffiti is one of the most growing forms of hand produced art in the corporate world.. Parents don’t neglect your childrens potential!!! Just help them express themselves in a more positive manner…

By Bruce Wilcox

January 26, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Lilburn Parent you raise good points, it would be a problem finding an area for a park in the section. The two parks Mr. Badie pointed out are out of reach for many in the area. So I had a brainstorm, instead of spending millions on a new park, use that money to buy a couple of buses just for the parks department and staff to man them. Working with the schools pre-arranged pick-up sites could be picked out and those who want to enjoy the two parks available in the area could get there. Remember this is mostly aimed at the younger children, not teens. The parks department has staff and activies at other parks, it could be done here. Plus a volunteer program where concerned citizens could donate their time supervising. It’s an idea to kick around, a start.

As far as the teens, it would take a little more work, too bad we don’t have a YMCA in the area, but buying up one of the abandoned stores may not be that expensive. As far as security, another expense would be to hire police, but more like the school program where the teens and officers can get to know each other and build up some trust.

Both ideas would be cheaper than building a new park and hopefully be a great improvement to the quality of life in the area.

About the area being over developed, so true, that’s why other areas of Gwinnett should keep a close eye on what the developers have planned for their areas. Otherwise they’ll be stuck with the same situation eventually.

By Rutuger

January 26, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

The real ATL graff community has never even heard of these kids… I’ve been painting for nearly ten years (no longer illegally, as I can’t afford to be arrested), and the graffiti art culture is just part of the urban landscape, whether you’re in Atlanta, New York, Paris, Oslo, Beijing or Sao Paulo. People generally fear what they don’t understand—but I can assure you that its kids from all ages, races, classes, and professions who unite in the creation of this urban artform.

These two kids sound like complete imbiciles who basically force-fed themselves to a reporter because they wanted attention. It’s as if they WANTED to be caught. That’s prime toy behavior.

As you asserted, Mr. Badie, “it’s not even remotely close to the murals you can see from the seat of a MARTA train as it whizzes through the city.” Well, many of my cohorts and I are responsible for the pieces you see on these otherwise rusty industrial eyesores, and neither I nor they have ever heard of “Kelor” or “Spooky.”

I understand people getting peeved over personal property damage, but that’s actually a very slim portion of a larger entity. If people took the time to attempt to understand the true nature of a thing, they would not be as intimidated by or angry with it… they may even discover that they admire it.