By rozzzzzzy

Oct 21, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

By karenatlanta

Oct 8, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
karen: You said: "Interesting that the people who survived the pandemic in the 1800's still have their natural immunity today." Are you sure? How many of these survivors from the 1800's do you know of, firsthand? Do dead people retain natural immunity? If you got this information wrong, do you think you may be wrong on other issues?

By karenatlanta

Oct 8, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

LJ-
I've lived through flu every year. I've had it, the babies had it, the kids had it. The muscle aches etc.
It is no big deal.
We eat right and exercise and kick it in a couple days.
Interesting that the people who survived the pandemic in the 1800's still have their natural immunity today.
I'm sure their are medically fragile that require special monitoring. But giving those same people 25 mcgs of Mercury to an already taxed immune system just seems asinine.
Autism is serious too. Unlike the flu you have it for life, usually. Parents shoulder 90% of the 3.2 million it costs to raise an autistic child. (ASA figures)
To have an otherwise normal child plunge into Autism
after vaccines is horrific. Much much worse than the much demised flu. It is so obvious when flu season starts because the Pharma scare tactics come out in full swing, as though we were under a terror attack.
Glad you have some balance with it.

By LJ

Oct 8, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Influenza is a lot more serious than just throwing up (totally not the same as the "stomach flu"), especially for some groups of people. Even so, I think the flu vaccine should be used sparingly.

By karenatlanta

Oct 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

I always tell the pediatrician "No thanks, we'll throw up."
It sure beats checking in to an Alzheimer unit at 45!
Besides it's a great reason to stay in bed all day and watch movies. I can't believe pediatricians would deprive kids of all the fun, offering a flu shot that may or may not work based on last year's Asian strain.

By LJ

Oct 8, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Just to throw you guys for a loop, I actually think there are very, very few circumstances in which the flu vaccine should be used, but for reasons that I won't go into here. :)

By karenatlanta

Oct 8, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Speaking of fallacies...
Doubts over child flu vaccination

New research has questioned the benefits of expanding
the flu vaccine campaign to include children.
07 Oct 08

The Governmentýs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has looked at the evidence for vaccination of children several times, but never been convinced there was enough data.

And a new study looking at vaccination in the UK, where children are covered, has found no benefits for hospitalisations or doctor visits.

Among 414 children vaccinated against flu in the 2003/4 and 2004/5 flu seasons, there was no significant difference in hospitalisations or visits than in more than 5,000 unvaccinated controls in three countries.

The research conflicts with data released in August by the Health Protection Agency suggesting vaccinating children aged six months to six years could reduce incidence of influenza A by 38% and influenza B by 70%, and would ýbring benefits to both those vaccinated and the communityý.

Vaccine effectiveness in the study, in Octoberýs Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, ranged from just 7% to 52% for children aged between six and 59 moths.

Dr Peter Szilagyi, a paediatrician at the Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York, said ýSignificant influenza vaccine effectiveness could not be demonstrated for any season, age or setting.ý

A second study found vaccinating patients with asthma and COPD against the flu may not help prevent the exacerbations associated with infection with the virus.

Researchers examined data from a 2003 Canadian health survey of more than 134,000 people and found patients with asthma vaccinated against flu were 80% more likely to experience exacerbations requiring use of inhalers or nebulizers than unvaccinated controls.

By LJ

Oct 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Craig,
Seriously, must you misconstrue everything I say? I never made any statements regarding whether or not there could be a susceptible group of children. I was simply responding to some of Karen's comments regarding whether or not I choose to vaccinate. (As an aside, why is it that you attack everything I say, but don't jump on Karen's blatant logical fallacies?) As I said previously, for myself and my family, I choose to vaccinate because I have concluded that the benefits outweigh the risks. Statistically, it is more likely that any given individual will be in the larger, healthy group I mentioned than in the small subset that you claim may be susceptible to vaccine induced autism, which there is as yet no evidence for.

By Craig Willoughby

Oct 8, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

LJ said:
"Billions of perfectly healthy people worldwide have been vaccinated. Personally, if I have a boy, I will take the 79 out of 80 chance that he will not have autism and also will not be susceptible to any vaccine preventable diseases."

So, since you or your kids didn't get sick from the vaccines, it makes it completely impossible that a subset of children are injured from vaccines? Again, the flawed logic/selling points of the Church of the Immaculate Vaccination can be seen.

By karenatlanta

Oct 8, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Ghostwriting Common Throughout Drug Industry
Date Published: Monday, October 6th, 2008
We have long been reporting about the mounting evidence that points to drug companies routinely hiding their influence over research on their products by paying respected academics for their names to be included as authors of such studies and research. Now, due to a lawsuit over the injuries caused by Merckýs painkiller Vioxx, Merck has been forced to unseal documents over its initial research on Vioxx that prove Merck conducted studies on Vioxx, paid researchers to allow their names to be put down as authors of those studies, and did not disclose these practices to the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) or to medical journals that published the studies.

According to Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) editor Catherine D. DeAngelis, drug companies have often come to her, requesting that she allow her name to be listed as study author for research for which she has not been involved. In some cases she was directly told that minimal work would be required and a professional writing firm would produce the first draft. In an editorial in JAMA, DeAngelis and deputy editor Phil. B. Fontanarosa criticize such ghostwriting as a sign that the health profession has been ýinundated with profound influence from the pharmaceutical and medical device industries.ý

DeAngelis is not alone. High blood pressure expert Jean Sealey said that a consulting firm asked her to be the author on a study to be presented at a conference of the American Society for Hypertension. The conference, Sealey noted, was only a week away and she had never heard to the drug that had been tested. According to Jerome Kassirer, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, ghostwriting can be especially dangerous in cases in which researchers are persuaded to put their names on reviews conducted of prior research and there is no indication if the firms that authored the paper excluded certain prior studies from consideration. ýWeýve got to stop this,ý DeAngelis said. ýPeople are being hurt. Weýve given away our profession.ý

Meanwhile last month, the Associated Press pointed out that many in the medical community are accusing big pharmaceutical of deception, manipulating doctors, and focusing on profits over patients. Much in the news has been reported to confirm this and medical schools, teaching hospitals, and physician groups are limiting pharmaceutical sales rep influence. Also, three top editors of the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine publicly sided against industry in a U.S. Supreme Court case in August over whether patients harmed by government-approved medicines may still sue in state courts.

Last month, DeAngelis spoke about two studies stating ghostwriters wrote past reports about Vioxx and some reports minimized risk of death. ýManipulation of studies and publications by the pharmaceutical and medical device industries is either increasing or there has been more exposure of these practices,ý she wrote. DeAngelis added that industry pressure includes influencing doctors and medical students with gifts and funding research at top teaching hospitals. But, funding includes tight controls on studies and results, can hide study authorsý conflicts of interest, and can even control doctorsý continuing medical education by running courses on new treatments.

By karenatlanta

Oct 7, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

You have to look at unadulterated evidence.
Not flawed studies the CDC used to cover their horrific mistake, sponsored by the Statens Serum Institute that makes vaccines.
You have to examine toxicology, not epidemiology.
You cannot measure things like you do for chronic disease.
You have to look at metabolics, measured toxicity, viral loads, neopterin levels and oxidative stress in these kids. You have to study family history as to why were they genetic predisposed to auto-immune disease. They aren't kidding when they say puzzle.

You cannot used an infectious disease model, it's more like treating World Trade Center victims.
(The CDC got that wrong too!)

My mother was a well baby nurse for a health dept in NY. I was so pro-vaccine you wouldn't believe it.
Raced in for every shot.
I was horrified that my kids got so much Mercury.
My ASD child is not a measles kid, we had him scoped.
He has oxidative stress, CLIA certified lab reports showing Hg toxicity. Low cystiene low glutathione and 3 polymorphisms pertaining to poor methylation.
He had 18 indicators of mitochondria problems.
And we have a family history of auto-immune.
None of this was questioned when his vaccines were doubled in place of a missed wellness visit.

Believe me my whole mind set changed after vaccine damage. I was never anti-vaccine crunchy granola.
But now my confidence in them is shot.
I have attended ACIP meetings and found very little concern for child health.

Because it won't let me post link I encourage you to Google Rep Dave Weldon's Autism One Speech.
He is an MD/Congressman and has made exhaustive arguments for HHS reform. That speech tears into what is wrong with every epi study to this point on Thimerosal.
They all had flaws and conflicts.

Thank you for initiating civil discussion, it is refreshing.
Good night.