Get Schooled

By Robert

August 15, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

I think that this is a direct result of parents not ensuring that their student is “on top of things” to begin with. If the students cared enough to write down the assignments themselves and do the work, then day planners or “agendas” would not be needed.

All teachers can do is provide the at-home assignment. Teachers cannot force student hands to write the assignment down and certainly cannot follow the students home to make sure that they complete the assignment. Where is the parent and student accountability?

By Me

August 15, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

We came from a high performing district in another state. They required a school folder and agenda for all kids, even Kindergarteners. So, he used one from Kindergarten onward. The folders were the parent communicators, and it was a little school spiritish to have them. It helps with organizational skills that many of us lack. I’m totally for the agendas starting in 3rd grade. When we were kids, teachers didn’t provide email and websites, and we got along fine. The kids should buck up and fill out their agendas, since that’s what they’re for. I still have problems with my kid sometimes daydreaming and missing assignments, but he’s no one to blame for himself. He’s a middle schooler now.

All of the classes he’s attended, the teacher actually writes the assignment on the board. There’s no excuse for him missing an assignment, or test, or project. If he does, it’s his responsibility to try to fix it. Not mine, not the teacher’s. And, if it can’t be fixed, well that’s a lesson he’ll learn, a mistake made, a small one in the grand scheme of things.

Now, I’ll say this and take it with a grain of salt, because I don’t want to place blame. One year, he had a teacher that he felt was picking on him. Singling him out. It appeared that way to me, too. She would say she wrote it on the board, but every classmate we called would say no, there wasn’t anything on the board. Kids would get 0s for not doing their work. The teacher was greatly offended when queried, and swore up and down she wrote things on the board. It was the kid’s fault. To this day, I still wonder. I think what was really happening was once or twice a week, she’d get too involved and lose track of time. And, then would shout out the assignments in the last 2 minutes as kids were packing up their things to go the bus stop. My son has alot of problems hearing in background noisy situations. It’s not an ideal way to communicate anything to him. Couple this with her angry/sarcastic manner, and you’ll find a kid that shutoff his mind to most things the teacher said. That was a hard year.

So if the teacher and students are playing their roles right, I think the agendas are a fabulous tool! If the teacher isn’t up to par, I think they can be abused as a blame the kid thing. A teacher that really cares will help the kid through whatever is causing the trouble. Blaming the kid isn’t just going to autofix the problem. The problems using them need to be singled out and addressed. The principal asked the teacher to initial agendas each day, for about 6 or so kids, including mine. That’s when I realized other kids were having the same problem. That went on for a month, then the problem went away. I think she started using the board more. The teacher didn’t suggest it, though. She was totally and vocally opposed to initialing, looking at, checking, anything with the agendas. It makes you wonder. I really do love the agendas, though.

By A Parent

August 15, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I think that it is a good idea. My child is in Kindergarten and they sent a note home with the kids letting the parents know that there will be a calendar in her bookbag everyday that will tell you what she needs to do. I thought this is great because I am conerned about what goes on in my childs class and what she will be doing. I make it my business to check her bookbag everyday becuase I want to know. I think that all parents should be doing the same thing. Get concerned and pay attention to your kids school life. Just a thought.

By cd

August 15, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

Teachers “refus[ing] to provide assignments in the form of e-mails or Web posts” is right on. Doing so takes the responsibility off the student (where it SHOULD be) and puts it back on the teacher. Agendas are a way to develop student responsibility.

If the teacher puts it on the board and “some assignments make it into the books, some do not, and some are written incorrectly” then you need to look at the source of that “HUGE information gap”… your kid. If your kid doesn’t do what he/she is supposed to do, it doesn’t mean the system is broken. It means your kid needs to get off their duff and meet the expectation.

By middle school mom

August 15, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

We have agendas in our school system. Have had them since 2nd grade, I think. Last year, in 5th grade, the teacher didn’t check to make sure things were written down. I believe she was trying to teach the kids a lesson about responsibility which is fine with me. Shockingly, my daughter never seemed to have homework last year. The funny thing is that when we moved to middle school this year, the parents are required to sign the agenda every day. I thought that if we were going to give them lockers and let them change classes and such, they would be responsible enough to write down their homework on their own. However, knowing that my kid would manage to screw that up, I’m kinda glad I have something to review with her every day. I think the early grades are the perfect place to begin becoming responsible for your own work. I don’t think that teachers should HAVE to put stuff in email or posts. If they do, that’s great but they shouldn’t have to.

By Melva

August 15, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

To be honest I am against most any and all homework.

Can someone really accept the fact that a child goes to school 180 days a year 6/8 hours a day and at the end of 12 years can not even divide fractions or do square roots or even tell you what type of government we have in the US? Geez, what are these kids doing all day at school?

I would hate to work for eight hours a day and then come home just so I can work 2 more hours…for the same pay.

By EVMom

August 15, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Melva, I am pretty much in agreement with you!! My son started 3rd grade last Wednesday (Cobb). The homework he brought home today is stuff he did LAST FALL in second grade. The math homework is even/odd numbers. Here’s one of the questions: skip count by 10’s beginning with 27. You may use a calculator to help you. UMM, NO MY CHILD WILL NOT!! I WON’T ALLOW IT!!

He has something called Writer’s Workshop for an hour each day. Why can’t he use part of that to write the five lousy sentences they want him to write for homework? The same goes for the little reading exercise: redundant busy work.

I have no problem with large projects being worked on at home. I completely agree with reading a least 30 minutes a day at home, we would have him doing that anyway.

I am not complaining because the homework is hard, just the opposite. It is busywork and a waste of time. Since homework is required, I have no problem with agendas and it is my son’s responsibility to keep up with it.

By Ernest

August 15, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Simply put, I LIKE the agenda planners. I believe they help reinforce accountability while providing structure. Teachers that request parents sign them daily also gain insight regarding who are the ‘involved’ parents. These along with rubrics make it easier for me as a parent!

By Dan

August 15, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Well I have been out of the loop for a while but I don’t see how an agenda can create an information gap? What is the alternative, various pieces of scrap paper with assignments. Sounds like a real life lesson that could prove very useful. Maybe they should be graded?
Another poster mentioned teachers emailing assignments which is still a good idea if only so teachers can CYA

By Dan

August 15, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Oh and to those that are opposed to homework I will say it before the teachers do. You are a perfect example of our entitlement society and why the kids aren’t learning. 6 hours a day (which includes lunch gym and other fun classes or work periods) and 180 days. If kids parents are whining for them with that work load they are sure to fail in the real world

By RF

August 15, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

I have two kids in school and I love the agendas as a means of communication between me and the teacher. We can write notes back and forth and keep track of responses. I also like the fact that agendas create one place to go to to check homework or other assignment dates. I don’t have to dig through bookbags looking for loose papers. I love the agendas!!

By Me

August 15, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

cd, I totally agree with your comments. But, also exercise some caution at the younger grades where kids might not be as vocal to “issues”. I do believe it is possible for it to be a teacher problem, instead of a student problem. If so, though, with some investigation you’ll figure that out. If half the class didn’t get an assignment, and the other half did… that’s a clue. If that half was out of the classroom in another classroom at the time, that’s a huge clue! lol But, I totally agree. The first thought should always be to investigate from the side of the student’s responsibility, not the teacher’s.

By Me

August 15, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

EvMom, I remember those days. The drill type homework can really kill a kid’s learning spirit. One thing I’ve found, as he’s moved up in years, he knows how to squeeze a little homework time in during the day. So, he might do something at lunch, after he’s finished with his classwork, in homeroom, during pep rally’s, etc. So, some your post, I can see happening more as he wants it to and Finds The Time himself. Oh, and the busy work. Totally a GA thing in my experience. If you go to a more progressive educational state, they don’t do anywhere near as much busy crap, and tons of open ended type things like projects, artwork, creative writing. The Busy work is sqeezed in during classtime as a quiz/see-how-fast-you-do-this type thing. It’s funny. The amount of homework GA gives, when we first moved back here (4th grade), was jaw dropping. And, the books! Omg, the Huge Books. Progressive states are less likely to rely on traditional textbooks, too. (again, in my experience.) They use more of a curriculum planning process with lots of teacher meetings and discussion. Unfortunately, they may also do weird things like value effort more than the right answer.

By GAtransplant

August 16, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

I love the agendas. My daughter is forgetful and a huge proctrastinator. The first year of using them she missed a lot of homework assignments. She learned from all the 0s that it is HER responsibility to make sure she gets her assignments. The next year, 4th grade, she did much better. Now she has better time management skills that wouldn’t have occurred any other way. By the way, she rode the school bus for FOUR hours yesterday! My kid walked in the door at 6:30 p.m. I am not a happy camper.

By GAtransplant

August 16, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Also, I must say that I resent having to pay for the agendas. This was the first year I had to pay for it and I wonder if some parents had a hard time coming up with the money. Okay, the school would probably give it to a family that couldn’t afford it, but that puts the parent in an awkward position. Who wants to admit they can’t afford their kid’s school supplies?

By Frank F.

August 16, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

“If you go to a more progressive educational state,”

As a twenty five year Army Officer I have lived in 11 different states and 3 different countries including France and G.B.

I have found the education level in GA to be among the highest in the world. None better. I have 5 children and have seen it all. It boild down to the parent. Period

(It never hurts to write down one’s assignment. That is a basic learning and planning tool that one will usee the rest of their life)

By Rhonda

August 17, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

As a former educator I found the agenda books to be extremely helpful with parent communication and student responsibility. The parents of my third grade students knew to check the agenda each evening for notes, requests and information from me as well as the assignments for the evening/week. I used a color coded behavior system and parents could (at a glance) tell how their child behaved at school that day. I looked at each child’s agenda each afternoon as they left the classroom to make sure assignments were written. It only took a minute. It kept the ties between school and home very tight and everyone seemed to like it. Just my 2-cents worth!

By Worldly State?

August 17, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

Frank, Are you aware of testing that shows how low US students skills are compared to other countries? Math and Science specifically come to mind. France and Canada (for example) students perform higher than us. One result showed, if I recall correctly, that our 10th graders tested at the level of their 6th graders. GA in particular always ranks very low performance-wise. The progressive states see greater gains in critical thinking abilities. Those students might not have the solution memorized, but they’ll know 10 different ways to reach the solution. That kind of creative problem solving is highly valued.

That said, I realize every system has it’s problems. My intention isn’t to say progressive ed is the way to go. I think a balance has to be reached, and some countries seem to have reached it. But, I am really surprised to hear someone well-traveled say that GA is top-notch. I do agree that it’s up the parents, and a top-notch education can be achieved in GA.. just like anywhere else. If you throw enough resources at the child, it’ll show.

By Sarah

August 18, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

School is okay but school times are not! I’m in 7th in Forsyth which means that I get out of school at 4:15 and home at 5:00! It is horrendous

By Original poster

August 18, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this

I think the point of this post was missed.

The communications gap occurs when the student fails to write down assignments, the teacher doesn’t check the agendas, the teacher doesn’t write notes in them, doesn’t color code daily behaviour indicators, etc. These things do happen, often.

In a time where teachers are constantly asking for parents to “get more involved” in their student’s schoolwork, unclear communication is clearly a bad thing.

The agenda is a tool, similar to e-mail, web pages, syllabus, weekly assignment handouts, and the old memo books.

Why would a teacher NOT want to use these other tools also?

If I as a parent do not know precisely work product is expected of my child, how can I monitor that child’s work?

What I object to is the teacher who uses only one of these tools, the agenda, and refuses (yes flatly refuses) to provide assignment and project information any other way.

The agenda is for the student to write in, but the other tools are useful for the parent to provide checks and balances versus what has been written by the student.

By Jennifer

August 19, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

Original poster:

I taught both middle & high school, and I absolutely refused to provide assignments in any other way than by the student writing it down in his/her agenda. And no, I did not check their agenda books, and I certainly did not color code for behavior issues, although I would write notes once and a while if necessary. I wrote assignments on the board, and they were given assignment sheets for major projects, which they often lost.

After about 4th grade, I think it’s the child’s responsibility to keep track of all of his/her assignments. I, as the teacher, do not have enough time in the day to go around checking every agenda book to ensure that the kids actually wrote the work down. Now I will say, as part of a behavior management plan on both the middle & high school level, I used the agenda book as a direct communication tool with the parents—I’d sign, write notes, etc— but that was decided in a conference. I did not do the same for every member of my classes.

As for why a teacher would NOT want to use the tools you outline? Well, quite simply, there aren’t enough minutes in the class. When you have 25-30 kids and only 50min., you get about 2 min. per child if you spend no time instructing or having class discussion. Add either factor, and the available TEACHING time goes down. I’m not going to waste the 30 seconds I have for one-on-one instructions messing around with agendas that they should be keeping up with themselves.

By Me

August 19, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Why would a teacher NOT want to use these other tools also? A teacher might want to focus strictly on the student’s responsibility to keep up with all assignments. She may have no interest in helping 3rd parties, and may not see you as important to her process. It’s just one method of going about it all. Some teachers are extra webby and publishing for the world, the other teachers are focused on students only.

Usually when someone brings it up, I’d say they’re having issues with agendas. So, we went off on that tangent a little. The original posting was to review the appropriateness and workability of them. I think most agree they’re a great tool that works out well. I believe that too, unless you have a difficult teacher.

Yes, teachers want more involvement. But, it has it’s limits. Some teachers also seem more interested in the students involvement only. Go watch the class a day or two to figure out where the breakdown in communication between teacher and student is occurring. Lots of kids have problems with transition between classes, and that’s usually when assignments are given. If you’ve really got a problem with the teacher, try to explain that you need more input at home to reinforce your kids studies. If she doesn’t feel the input is necessary, listen to her reasons. She may have some good, valid points (probably about responsibility). But, then again, she may just be trying to shirk responsibility herself. If all she says is variations of “student responsibility, student responsibility”, then find out how you and her can work together to improve the student’s responsibility. A bad case is when the teacher parrots off the student responsibility bit, and has no intention of helping to teach that responsibility. Very circular, eh? That’s when the principal needs to be involved.

With or without a teachers direct involvement, if the assignment was written down by the student this wouldn’t be a problem. Why should the teacher check/review agendas each day with each kid? Seems like a waste of class time to me. I’m all for having the teacher check/review them a trial basis though. If multiple children are failing to enter their assignments, it can help them all at once.

As for notes entered, I’ve had them entered over the years. When the teacher thinks up a note to write, I don’t think it should have to wait until she has the hot little agenda in her hands. So, I’m not sure what the beef is with the notes, other than having a central location.

BTW, the aggravation expressed sounds just like what we experienced 4th grade with a teacher in East Cobb. After a really difficult year there, that teacher is now teaching 5th instead. And, with multiple meetings in the Principal and School Counselors offices, I was told the school was teaching these (4th grade) kids responsibility. Personal responsibility to them means LESS parental involvement and on their specific terms. They were preparing them for middle school, I’d hear. And, they couldn’t coddle and baby these kids any longer. And, that if I had been there at the beginning of the year (Christmas transfer), I’d know these things.

And, finally, they loved to use and educate parents on the book called “Parenting with Love and Logic”. It’s part of their orientation or some such, I was told. I would have known these things at the beginning of the year. I found it disgusting. I read that book, I didn’t agree with examples in the book. I definitely didn’t agree with the school’s overall philosophy of parenting the parents. So, we moved on to much brighter pastures. And, my kiddo has had nothing but great successes since. My only regret is that we stayed through the end of the school year as a maturity/learning experience type thing. Any school with a philosophy of less parental involvement, ugh. It was a lesson.

But, it’s funny that your post sounds so much like something I would have posted in that particular trying time. And, I’m telling ya, the biggest thing that helped was to deal with it on the teachers terms as much as possible. Try to get her checking it daily for a month to help the kid(s). Reach out to the principals. And, find out exactly when the breakdown is occurring.

By Me

August 19, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Jennifer, It shouldn’t require in-depth conferences and meetings with Principals to get the parent and teacher working together to benefit the student. Once the teacher realizes the kiddo is having trouble, it should be obvious what needs to be done. Blaming the kid so they still don’t know why or how to fix the problem doesn’t help. You (Parent, Teacher, and Student) have to work together to figure out where the problem is. Maybe the kid is packing up too quickly at end of day. Maybe kid can’t focus, while everyone else is packing up, on what the teacher is yelling out as homework. Maybe it just needs to be written on the board for all involved. Simple step, I’d say. Write it on the board. :)

At the 4th grade level some kids, like mine, have trouble writing while listening. If it’s not the board, if it’s disorganized, he won’t receive the information. He can’t hear a monotone teacher over alot of background noise (packup to go home time). If it’s not written on the board, he’s at a total loss. From what I’ve read, this is a fairly common problem. Not always “officially diagnosed” but still an issue that can keep the kid down. Just writing on the board would be so helpful in these cases.

By Jennifer

August 19, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

Me:

I suppose I should give a more detailed account of how things worked in my class. We had three boards in the classroom, and one half of one board ALWAYS had both short and long term assignments written on them—I did it in the morning, so there was never a rush to get it done or me calling out to them as they ran out the door. The assignments were also verbally told to them, and they were directed to write the assignments down daily.

When I noticed that a child was not turning in work, I’d speak to the child. If that didn’t solve it, I’d speak to the parent by phone. If no improvement was seen, we’d have a conference, at which point we’d discuss alternative ways to address the problem & get the child on track.

Often, it doesn’t matter what I say/do as a teacher. I had better than 1/3 of my students opt out of their first project at a local high school. I spent 3 hours calling every parent to discuss the situation & explain that they could turn it in for a reduced grade. I got 2-3 late the next day. That’s it. The sad reality is that it often doesn’t matter what I do—ultimately, the student is responsible for his/her own work and grade, and the parent will establish a home environment that either fosters & encourages education or ignorance.

By 5145

August 19, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

Here is an idea:

Teachers - Why not create a list of assignments and tests and projects at the beginning of the semester and hand a copy to each student the first week of school?

This list is for both the parents and the students.

Students - The teacher will also write down on the blackboad the daily assignments. The student is to write these down in the agenda.

Parents - The parent will review both the typed assignment list, and the daily agenda. This “reconciles” the teacher’s assignments on the typed list with the student’s daily agenda.

This process may prevent that “I don’t have homework today” syndrome, and the “I didn’t write the assignment down” syndrome.

• The teacher set expectations on the typed assignment list.
• the student learns to record the assignments clearly.
• the parent can monitor through both the typed assignment list and the daily agenda.

By Jennifer

August 19, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

5145: You can’t plan out a semester’s worth of assignments simply because teaching is fluid. Sometimes lessons move more quickly than expected, and other times it takes longer than planned to cover a concept. Certain things are constant—my kids knew which vocabulary exercises were going to be assigned each day, and they could choose to work in advance or daily. But the frequency and pattern of other assignments varied based on my students’ progress and needs. Assuming you can plan out the entire semester & send the list home at the beginning of each term assumes that pacing and instruction are static and predictable. In my experience, nothing could be further from reality.

By Me

August 19, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jennifer, Sounds like you had a good plan to get all keep all types of kids in the loop. For long term projects, I love how the teachers send home notices to parents. At the elementary level, without those letters, I’d probably never know until too late. But, starting in 5th grade, I started seeing wierd notes in his agenda. It was his way of planning out the project. He wrote the notes. So, by 6th grade, he’s finally recording and recognizing those longer term projects as assignments to be recorded. I still think it’s a nicety of teachers, and hope they keep doing it, to send home letters about those projects. Extra special since they’re usually a large % of class grade.

When we had trouble in elementary, there were multiple sources. But, I do know that at the end of the day, the homework might suddenly change depending on what they finished in class. And, whoever was fussing about that (different blog posting I think) is totally right. I think last minute homework assignments for classroom work is just stinky. :)

And, I don’t think anyone is saying it’s the “teacher’s fault”. I certainly didn’t mean to. Some teachers sure seem to make it harder than necessary, though. If my child misses 1 assignment, we talk about it. 2 assignments, I start paying more attention to his agenda. 3 assignments, I want to know what’s going on in the classroom. See? You can only do so much as home, just like in your classroom. There has to be some cooperation between parent and teacher.

By 5145

August 19, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

We can agree that the teacher needs to flexibly assign work.

So, how about a weekly task list to be sent home? Or daily, on paper?

To dismiss out of hand the idea that work can be planned ahead is not logical.

Through the agenda, the teacher asks for planning skills from the student.

In the task list, the parent and student are shown that the teacher is planning ahead also.

The task list sets expectations between the teacher, student and parent.

By Jennifer

August 19, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

5145: I suppose we must just agree to disagree. Sending home a task list at the middle or high school level seems ridiculous to me. It’s way too much hand-holding for my taste. At back-to-school night, etc., I explain my routine, including homework expectations & classroom arrangement, to the parents. By being made aware of my expectations, they know their child is lying if he/she says they have no homework. Also, if the students know that a task list, etc, will be sent home, what motivation do they have to write anything down and take responsibility? None. It’s been done for them. I demonstrate my planning ahead by having the assignments spelled out for them on a section of my board on a consistent basis—that should be sufficient.

Not to say that I disagree with creating handouts for complicated tasks, such as long-term projects. In those instances, I find it quite helpful to include key dates and a detailed project description on the form for both the student and the parent to reference.

By 5145

August 19, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Interesting that comments from teachers on this subject are tending toward “I absolutely refused to provide assignments in any other way” than the board/agenda.

What if, and this is a big “if”, that isn’t working well?

Lets mention again that parents are urged to be “more involved”, to “be proactive”, to “monitor work”.

How is a parent to monitor work if the assignments are never communicated directly to the parent?

And to that point made about teachers needing flexibility in daily assignments, in college for every class a syllabus is provided on the first day of the semester.

Definition of syllabus: ” … an outline of what will be covered in the course, with a schedule of test dates and the due dates for assignments …”

This may be a good model for what can be provided for the lower grades also.

By ntb

August 19, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this

Not mentioned in these posts is the fact that agendas are used (at least in Fulton Co in MS and HS) as passes, the central source for information on parent preferences, media center checkout, etc. If a teacher sees that the student has already been to the bathroom twice today, and it’s only fourth period, they can legitimately question if the child truly needs to go again; or if there’s a pattern of leaving one class to go to another (e.g., impacting work in first class), it’s documented in the agenda. Documentation of parental agreement to access the Internet, or have the child’s picture taken for publicity, is also easily accessible in the agenda.

While most of the teachers with whom I’ve dealt use the agenda for communication, if there’s something critical going on, they still e-mail or call in follow-up. Also, concessions are made for students who need help remembering to enter assignments, if the need is legitimate. In high school, teachers will often post assignments, especially long-term ones, on their websites; this saves paper and heartache.

Our PTA memberships cover the expense of our agendas, so everyone receives one, either at Open House or the first day of school.

By Jennifer

August 19, 2005 05:11 PM | Link to this

5145: Comparing middle/high school to college is comparing apples to oranges. I just completed my Master’s, so I have interacted with many syllabi recently. Colleges do not require the same types of “practice” exercises. Students are solely evaluated on 2, no more than 3, major projects. The syllabus is a guide—read chapters 1 & 2 week one, etc. On the middle/high school level, we’re constantly assigning and checking a myriad of smaller assignments, from vocabulary exercises to answers to response questions following stories to tests to major projects and essays.

I know many teachers, myself included, who present parents with a general outline for their course, much like a syllabus. It basically states we’re going to do a 3-week poetry unit followed by a 3-week short story unit, etc. The basics, such as a test will be administered at the completion of each unit & students will be responsible for completing an out-of-class project per unit are listed, but the specifics are saved for assignment sheets or written on the board. And I also have to add: it’s quite easy for a college professor to create a detailed syllabus. Basically, they divide the required readings over the course of 15 weeks & provide a brief description of each of the three projects. If that was the extent of a middle/high school teacher’s responsibility, they could do the same.