Get Schooled

By Robert

May 24, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Recruiting more men, in general, is a good idea…. as long as they are qualified.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

ui

By PointMan

May 24, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

More men yes. As an added bonus, how about married black men that have children fathered by them. Get the total package if you want them as role models. Qualified shmaulified. I think just their presence alone goes a long way in communities lacking good men. Give the kids handouts or something.

By Britt

May 24, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

Having more male teachers in the classroom is in fact needed. There are alot of children without a male figure in their lives. As long as the teacher is willing to be compassionate as well as a great teacher then kudos to them all that are trying hard to be educators. Just asking-but what does it have to do with the men being African American? Unless it is essential to mention that they are African American and not white-why can’t they just be men? Is their an importance-such as percentage? Please clear this up for me!

By Patti

May 24, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Britt,

Good question on whether the race of the teacher matters. Could be a whole separate blog topic. It has come up several times on Get Schooled and millions of times since I started covering education that African-American parents often believe an African-American teacher can better teach and relate to their child. And for a role model, will the kids see that person as someone they can emulate if he is of a different race?

Patti

By Mary

May 24, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

I wish there were more men in the classroom, regardless of race. I totally agree with the male role model comment. Especially for single parents with sons. Before, I’ve requested male teachers for the next grade, if one was available, and it’s really helped. Also, the male led classroom environment is just different. Their organization, discipline, tone, presentation, everything. I think, I’m sure narrow-minded-ly, that the males get more involved with their subject matter. When my kid has a teacher that seems to thoroughly love the subject they teach, it shows. We’ve seen that more with males than females.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

I as a parent who experience a awful year with my son school.name KIPP WAYS ACADEMY which told me that the school was this and that.well the school is a set up for low income black students!!!the principal tell the kids they have to earn a book a desk a chair.how dare anyone of black descent be force to earn basic neccesity.and oh yes the princiapl is a white male who is about 27yrs old.He makes it perfectly clear to his staff and parents that this is his school!!! he also target area like bowen homes hollywood court and carver home places where he can speak and tell parents what they want to hear!!!

By Louisa

May 24, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

What seems to lacking in some is the understanding of what a role model is. African American children need to be able to see a physical representation of themselves in figures of authority. Teachers are one the significant authority figures that play a huge part in any childs development. That impression/interaction is very important to monitor especially for African American children because of the influence that it carries with that child. Self esteem is very important in any childs development and if hiring qualified African American males as teachers can help them, go for it! It is a win-win scenario for all. I beleive that it just depends on your cultural awareness and respect for others.

By Mary

May 24, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Regarding race, role models of all minority cultures should be sought out.
I’m really not sure what’s best regarding predominantly afr-am communities and schools. My family attended an afr-am school, and we were by far the minority race. In that school, we found the afr-am students very unwelcoming to a white student, and a school environment totally focused on afr-am culture. All faculty except 2 secretaries were afr-am, and those kids needed much more cultural awareness than they were getting. So is the answer to seek out strong role models, regardless of gender, that aren’t the school’s main racial makeup? If so, where does that leave the afr-am boys that struggle with their transition into adulthood? In predominantly white schools, we need more minority role models. in general. They need to combat the stereotypes they receive through the media.

By James McCoy

May 24, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this

One of my favorite topics,my younger brother went from being a banker to a middle school teacher. My question for him was why? Because he was concern about his own two sons and what type of education that they recieved. and for you color blind folks out there,the color of the teacher do matter in a lot of case’s,my brother coming from a background where cars and other material things were not a given. So his perpective is across the gambit. Kudo’s to the principal for hiring men for a man’s job. Because teaching young black males in 2005 is tough. There are too many competing factors that requires a strong man.

By sct

May 24, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

So does this mean all teachers at predominate white schools should be white?

Or is this a another case of diversity is great as long as it doen’t apply to black schools?

By lynn

May 24, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Cynthia I agree all the teachers except 2 are leaving that school,reason: the principal have know experience about life and how to communicate.oh!! by the way the staff 4blacks and 2whites this man prey on the weak mind of inner city parents who want the best for there students but seek other outlet beside Atlanta Public School.It’s awful that the parents hear all this great things about this school but they are brain washing the kids by telling them all kind of lies about life!!! I as a parent will be very careful with this charter school call KiPP WAYS they are really using these parents and the kids for experiment!!! and when parents realize whats going on they pull there kids out!!! so parent’s beware.of the set up.everything sound good ain’t good!! We need great black teachers in the classroom so our people in our community will not continue to be bamboolzed!! The black community must get back to the village mood period!!!You know it really hurt to see that we still are being belittle at early age years with parent permission .I say shame on the PARENT WHO don’t believe in there own race or may I SAY CAN’T PARENT THERE OWN KIDS!!!

By SR

May 24, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

The influence of a teacher in the life of a child is a fact without dispute but I would far prefer a person selected first for their expertise as a teacher over a person selected first for their gender or even ethnicity. Once the teaching quality is established, then gender and ethnicity can be secondary standards. An excellent principal will use this criteria when hiring.

Unfortunately, I’ve had to teach with less than mediocre teachers who just happened to be male, and I witnessed/experienced descrimination in hiring because of gender. It’s difficult for the hiring principal to know how good a teacher will be from a resume, interview, and 3 references and that’s true regardless of gender/ethnicity but it seems that principals often take more risks when the hiring goal is to increase the male quota. Sometimes it works out well.

By James McCoy

May 24, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

White folks have had 500 years to educate their kids and shape and mole them into what ever you want them to be,so stop playing the race card like everything is fair and equal in this country.

By CASSIE

May 24, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this

I AGREE:lynn and cynthia it’s time to spread the word that KIPP WAYS ACADEMY is a big hoax!!! please people who have kids in these charter school you need to think very hard if you want your kids to earn a book when there acestor have died for reading been wiped for reading. our ancestor have paid the way for our kids to not have to earn a desk or a chair.I’am amaze that black people today just don’t know there culture and respect what others have done for blacks today!!!what black parent in there right mind will allow this mess.I say shame on the parents who have kids at this school who in 2005 will allow a pricipal who is white tell them there black kids will have to earn a desk and book and a chair.We continue to fall for if it’s white syndrome it’s right.SHAME ON THE PARENTS.FOR GIVING THIS SCHOOL LIFE TO EVEN BREATHE THE LIES INTO OUR CHILDREN HEAD.

By Susan

May 24, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

AND YOU HAD 400 YRS TO PUT BLACK PEOPLE IN BONDAGE SO HOW CAN YOU SAY STOP PLAYING THE RACE GAME!!! WHITE FOLKS INVENTED THE GAME ON RACE REMEMBER WILLIE LYNCH!!! I THOUGHT SO!!

By East Point's 81Own

May 24, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

I am a product of Fulton County Schools, Westlake High class of 1998. The year after I graduated Fulton County imposed a rule that public schools should be composed of the same racial mix as the county. At Westlake High there was am abnormally high number of black male teachers, which was a good thing, but as a result of the school board’s policy they were shipped off to other schools in order to reduce the concentration of black teachers in that one school. many of the male teachers quit rather than be moved to other areas, because they specifically eanted to work with an underserved population in the public school system. In theory the balancing act sounds good, but it turned out to work against the student population of Westlake High. From what I have seen in the papers and from recent students the quality of education has decreased since 1998.

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of hearing how children of single moms don’t have any male role models. What about grandfathers, uncles, cousins, etc.? My sister is a single mom and my nephew has a multitude of positive, healthy male role models in his life.

I think that an excellent teacher is an excellent teacher regardless of race, gender, etc. But I also know (as a teacher) that some children mesh and bond better with certain teachers. Maybe they respond to the way the teacher manages a classroom, maybe they respect their teacher more because she’s/he’s older/younger, or because the teacher looks like the student. I think that it’s wonderful and important to recruit male teachers/teachers of color into a school but the hiring principal should definitely make sure that they are great teachers above all else (they should do the same when they hire white/female teachers. An assumption shouldn’t be made that it is more rare to find high quality male teachers or teacher of color than white or female teachers).

Above all else, what we need to model to our students in the school setting is that people are different and make different choices and that that is okay. By only selecting married males, or only black males, or white females, or whatever, we are doing a disservice to the children in the school. The reality is that in the “real world”, they will have to deal with all sorts of people, so it’s better to expose them to that in school (this goes for black, white, ALL students). But it is also important, in my opinion, that in a school where the majority of the student population is not white or where most of the students are low-income, that there is a special emphasis on pride, cultural relevancy, etc., to the non-white and/or low-income students. This could be reflected by culturally relevant curriculum, library materials, teachers, classes offered, etc. I strongly feel that this committment to reflecting the students attending the school is important in making a school environment that is positive and supportive for our students.

By James Brown

May 24, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

Everyone seems to be concerned about the same thing – what’s the best way to educate at risk youth. I think it’s interesting that no one has mentioned anything about academics. I’d like to think that most people posting comments understand that when these young adults sit for their first job interview, no one is going to care whether their teacher was Black, White, Latino, or Asian. The interviewer is going to want to get an idea of how prepared they are for the job at hand. It’s hard to imagine that anyone would focus on the race of the teacher and not on the teacher’s qualifications. Not every teacher has the ability to motivate and inspire students. Having Black skin doesn’t give a guy that inherent ability. It’s an insult to every highly skilled Black teacher to suggest that their biggest asset is their skin color. You have got to be crazy if you seriously think that the priority is race.

By Connie

May 24, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

I think good teachers, be they black, white, male or female are the key.

I had a great teacher in the second grade. She made the class behave. Period. I learned so much from her. When she got close to retirement age for the district, she left and began teaching at a Reservation. I always thought those kids were so lucky. My 5th grade teacher was a man. He loved to teach and again, I learned alot from him. When a teacher loves what they do, it shows.

But again, I have to say, that it is the PARENT’S responsibility to be role models for their children and to help them learn. My daughter graduated from a GA public school after attending public schools in CA and TX and went on to one of the best colleges in the country. My husband and I both worked most of her school life. But we kept very, very involved in her life AND her education. You cannot expect your children to learn, no matter WHO their teachers are, if YOU as a parent aren’t involved.

By Flora Lambert

May 24, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

What is the story on Kipp Ways Academy? It sounds as though an investigation is in order. What do you mean the children have to earn books, desk, chair? Please explain further.

Oh—on the topic of Black Male teachers. Yes I believe black students benefit from having male authority figures who look like them. They will have their whole lives to deal with White authority figures who will negatively impact them. Maybe dealing with positive Black Male role models will lessen the chances of them being arrested, dropping out of school etc. When you have positive influences early in life, you get positive result.

By Dawn

May 24, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

From what I am reading here, if you, the parents don’t learn to speak and write proper english, it won’t matter who teaches your children. Teaching begins at home each day and continues at home once school is class is over.

By Dan

May 24, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t know anything about Kipp But the notion of kids having to earn books, desks etc is wonderful. Too many parents and children alike are under the mistaken impression that they are “owed” and education. It should be a priviledge to go to public school, and it should be viewed as an opportunity to educate yourself using the myriad of tools and resources provided by the taxpayers. The very first school supply provided should be a mirror

By Ms Harris

May 24, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

This comment is directed basically at Cynthia. It amazes me that you are surprised that kids in Hollywood Court don’t do as well. Guess what? They don’t!!! Be a parent, get a decent job where you can make you ENOUGH money to get your kids out of there or maybe just stop having them. My God, you act like you were a slave yourself. Your parents weren’t nor were your grandparents, aunts and uncles! To say that things aren’t equeal because white people had more time to teach their kids is nuts. School age kids today along with their parents haven’t had to experience slavery, so they have had plenty of time to teach (But they didn’t) so get over it and do what’s right by your kids. “White people are racist and trying to hold down blk people” Pls, be a decent person and earn a decent living and watch how treatment improves

By Dan

May 24, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

I don’t know anything about Kipp But the notion of kids having to earn books, desks etc is wonderful. Too many parents and children alike are under the mistaken impression that they are “owed” and education. It should be a priviledge to go to public school, and it should be viewed as an opportunity to educate yourself using the myriad of tools and resources provided by the taxpayers. The very first school supply provided should be a mirror so that every morning each child can clearly see the person responsible for their education. as a matter of fact give the parents teachers and administrators a mirror as well. It would be money better spent than on hand cleaner

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

What is wrong with telling children that books and desks are earned? I don’t know if it’s the principal’s tone, or the fact that he’s white, but I hope that my child’s schools communicate the value of learning to him as it’s going to be communicated at home. From what has been written, I see telling kids that their books, desks, places in school have to be earned as a positive that gives respect to the sacrifices that people made (lynching, death, etc.), so that ALL of our kids can get an education. It’s all about respecting the opportunities presented to you. I tell my students the same thing at the beginning of every year (and I teach little ones) because I want them to realize the opportunity in front of them. They are shocked when I tell them that most children in the world don’t have the same opportunity to go to school (definitely not for free), learn to read, etc. I think that it’s important to communicate this to children and to communicate it often. Too many of our kids think that everything should be handed to them, and that they are not responsible for the choices that they make with homework, behavior, etc. It’s a good thing that this principal is being proactive in establishing a culture of respect and hard work in the school. Is this the only issue with that school, or is there more to it?

By Mike G

May 24, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

I agree that this is a good idea. I don’t think it matters if they are married or not or if they have kids. Whomever the author of that blog needs to get a grip. Men who can teach and are qualified to teach should be enough, who cares about their relationship status!

By K Robinson

May 24, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

Ms. Harris, AMEN!! Ignorance breeds ignorance and the cycle continues….

By Jay

May 24, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Male teachers, no matter the color are a great idea. Two of the best teachers I’ve had were males. Males tend to be more logical which adds to the balance of sensibility of lady teachers. Kids often see males as principles, coaches and discipliner figure. As teacher’s males become more personable figures that kid rarely see in those other roles. Maybe it will inspire more kids to become teachers vs. athletes

By Felicia

May 24, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

To Dawn: this is a blog. Spoken English and written English are two very topics especially as it applies to blogging, chatting, emailing, or any Internet usage. When blogging, writing “correct” English and formality are not necessary. Amended versions of English are acceptable. I might add that there are mistakes in your blog.

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

Jay:

That’s nonsense. Males tend to be more logical and females more “sensitive”? Come on. If all I had to get me through the monumental task of teaching 20+ how to read each day was my “sensitivities”, then I’d be up a creek without a paddle and so would the kids.

By T. Drain

May 24, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

It is important for every school’s make-up to reflect the society at large. It is just as important for African-American students living in Redan to have a black teacher as it is for the white students living in East Cobb. However, since the overwhelming majority of teachers (K-8) are white females, it is ideal to make an effort to have more of a representation of a particular minority group if said school has a large number of students in that minority group. Above all, though, teacher quality is the important thing. I know of many white teachers who connect very well with African-American students. White teachers who are adept in a “black classroom.”

By Dan

May 24, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

It is not complete nonsense Cheryl and saying one is more sensitive and one more logical does not mean a man can’t be sensitive nor a woman logical. When people get out of their politically correct mode, there are obvious differences between the sexes and how they handle and address various challenges. The jist of Jays argument is simply that exposing children to both is healthy. Much like a traditional family.

By Mary

May 24, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Cheryl: Not all single moms have extended families. I personally do not have a living Father, no siblings, no living male Grandparents, 1 uncle in another state, and no male cousins. My son’s role models are my male friends, neighbors (we have alot of retired folk in our neighborhood that led interesting lives), and some fathers of their friends. So, no, he doesn’t have a lot. He’s has no ooaches outside of school, either.

And, I totally agree that hiring decisions should not be made on race or gender as a primary factor. I’m not sure who (did I?) said that. I would surprised that anyone would suggest hiring a bad teacher just because because their Asian. I do believe that we need more teachers with a variety of backgrounds, and the college programs should encourage that. I think they already do, but I don’t believe the public schools take advantage of the variety offered to them.

By FunkyGee

May 24, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Mike G. What’s wrong with wanting a married black man in the classroom? And for him to have children - wow - what a concept. Marriage and raising children - probably something you’ll never know about - brings about the natural qualities of stability and progress that young black males should get a “grip” of.

By paul

May 24, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

I agree with most everyone on this topic. There is no doubt blacks do better with black teachers and the same goes for whites. That is why they shouldnt try to force blacks to go to white schools.

By T. Drain

May 24, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Jay, you have a very valid point. I recommend a blog topic to Patti: “The Rising Femininity of Education” especially in the elementary and middle schools. There needs to be balance throughout society. We hear a lot about recruiting females to Engineering/Science and traditionally male-dominated fields like Law, Medicine, and Business, but not enough about the female-dominated field of Education. Males and females are different, each with their positives and negatives. A lot of the problems we have with education is the lack of a “male point of view” on things, and the need for more “male traits” when decisions are being made and projects are getting done.

By jennifer marks

May 24, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Having a child in Stone Mountain Middle School ( a zoo! ) Regardless of race, more male role models are definitely needed here. The kids are very wild and disrespectful to the female teachers. The male teachers do not seem to get “tested” as much. They tolerate allot less. One great teacher there….MR WORLDS! He’s great. His sense of humor is famtastic with the kids. A very patient man.

By T. Drain

May 24, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Paul, this is not a blog topic to promote resegregation. The point is that all schools (majority white, majority black, high immigrant, racially mixed) need a variety of teachers to reflect society at large. All students benefit from seeing diverse role models, especially when they themselves!

By jack

May 24, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

Hey folks, black and white. I can give you a little heads up about getting more black males into teaching. Starting now teach young black males that it “is not” acceptable, cool, or afro-centric to go to school and goof off, ignore the teachers, cause trouble, and admire the other student who made all F’s on his report card because he missed so many days of school and didn’t take any crap off them white teachers. You can’t learn if you are suspended or expelled, but among black students it seems to be acceptable defy the teachers, refuse to do any class or home work, and generally use school as a place to socialize. There are plenty of white kids who act in the same irresponsible ways but, it doesn’t earn them the admiration of the majority of the other white students. As long as bad grades, discipline problems, and bad attitudes toward school are condoned by their peers there won’t be many black male teachers because they don’t finish high school and sure don’t finish college.

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

Funky Gee: I can’t believe that I’m dignifying your post with a response. Here goes…There’s nothing wrong with being a married black male with or without children, or being a single black male with or without children. Marriage does not bring about natural qualities of “stability and progress”. If that were true, then 40 years ago when most people got married and had kids, there wouldn’t have been any societal issues/problems. People like to say that there weren’t, but there were. They were just glossed over like the comment that you made about how marriage brings about natural qualities of stability and progress. And by the way, who are you to state that young black males should “get a grip” on these qualities? Can you think of any group of people who has a 100% marriage/children/staying together utopia rate? Just curious.

Mary: You’re right. Not all single moms have extended families. But many do. It sounds like your son has a strong network of male role models around him regardless of the fact that you don’t have a lot of family around.

Dan: Could you define for me what a “traditional” family is? Do you mean just the physical existence of a mother, father, and kids living in the same house, or does your definition extend to the emotional/social characteristics of the family unit as well? Because if it doesn’t, “traditional” is just a head count of who’s living in the house and doesn’t speak to stability, emotionally safe environment, and love. Not all “traditional” families are healthy for children. And not all “untraditional” families are unhealthy. If males and females both possess the characteristics of being “sensitive” and “logical” (which is a belief that I subscribe to), then children are exposed to both every day regardless of the sex of their teacher. Right?

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

T.Drain:

How can you state that education is “female-dominated” when a lot of the people making the real decisions about education and where it’s headed are male? Yes, most classroom teachers are female, that number drops off a lot when you go up the next stage to principals, it drops off more when you go to superintendant/district-level administration, and it drops off even more when you look at the governmental appointees in the department of education. So, how is the male “point of view” not being heard?

By Greg

May 24, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I’m not yet a parent, but I’m a little concerned with what seems to be the majority opinion here. Maybe this explains why Georgia has the second or third-lowest SAT scores in the United States. It appears that many parents seem to be more concerned with having a male/female teacher or a black/white teacher as opposed to simply having a teacher who is best suited to effectively teach and motivate your children, regardless of gender or race. This blog is a good example of how polticial correctness can, if abused, be harmful. One of you even wrote “qualified shmalified,” implying that the most important characteristic of a teacher is their gender or color. That’s a scary comment.

By James McCoy

May 24, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Are you people in complete denial? Are you trying to create some utopia? Well qualified Black men are sorely needed in our public school system. For you folks who claim a woman can do the job just as well as a man need to change the channel.

By FunkyGee

May 24, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Cheryl - you definitely sound like an unmarried/scorned/vitriolic wanabe. Sure marriage doesn’t solve all problems, but I’ll guarantee you men that truly make the marriage commitment and father children that they feel obligated to support through thick and thin will make excellent role models for disadvantaged (and probably fatherless) children who don’t see this everyday in their homes (and probably yearn for it). So my group of these types will always be better at all aspects of everything than your group of whatevers. So HA!

By Sarah

May 24, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

Reading some of the comments on this page, I can’t help but wonder if there’s any hope for our country. We cannot deny that slavery was a despicable fact in our country. But it seems to me that until we get past the point where we identify with a “black” community or a “white” community we are doomed to repeat history’s failures. We as a people (regardless of color) MUST relinquish the easy excuses - It’s not my fault; it’s because I’m black/white; it’s not fair … If we have children in our home, we set priorities for them every day by what we say and do. If those priorities reflect a sense of responsibility, respect for others and commitment to learning and growth, then our society has a chance. If they continue to be blamecasting, dodging personal responsibility and passing the buck, then nothing will ever change.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

To Flora Lambert: Kipp Ways is a charter school which operate in the metro Atlanta Area.The principal target low income area especially where kids are in failling schools.the school perfer parents who are disgust with Atlanta Public Schools.The school go to local neighborhood like Bowen Homes Bankhead Courts and Carver Homes area that have been study by the principal and is collegues.The school perfer parents who really don’t know alot are either dumb about there culture as a race.The principal tell the parents how exciting and what kind of curriculum the teachers teach which is good.But he does not tell the parents that there kids will have to sit on the floor the first three weeks to earn a desk and a chair and books!!! the principal do not inform parents that if one child in the classroom do something the whole class get punish!the pricipal do not tell the parent that classes will be taught by a parent who have know formal education background will teach the class for 3months while a teacher is away on pregnancy leave, when state of georgia tell you to notify parents about sub teacher over 1week let alone a parent.The KIPP WAYS SCHOOL IS A PLACE WHERE THEY BREAK KIDS DOWN AND REPROGRAM THEM TO THINK ONLY KIPP WAY WAYS.WHICH WILL SET BLACK KIDS BACK 400 YRS MENTALLY.The school is great on academic but they lie to get the highest test scores by using calculators while testing.The principal do not tell parents if they disagree with him he will ignore and not respect there full concern.The principal do not have a open door policy.the principal do not inform parents that the school they send there kids to that the government pay 9,000 per child the principal tell the parents thats his school so in other words he let the parents know Atlanta Public School stink.and the parents need to be grateful that he is even in the neighborhood.teaching!!!

By Dan

May 24, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

I knew that was going to cause a politically correct flag to go up. Ok Cheryl are you telling me that in your observations of everyday life you do not detect a trend in how men and women approach problems and simply every day life activities? C’mon we are clearly wired different, that is not a judgmental comment it is simply a biological fact. Children react differently to men and women as well again neither is better or worse just different and exposure to both is a good thing. Although I tend to think it is more important the older the children get. As far as traditional family, yes mom and dad and kids. and I know there are good and bad families of many different permutations. But all other things being equal that is the best scenario and one to be strived for

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

James: Why don’t you follow up your statement with reasons as to why you think women can’t do the job of teaching as well as a man?

By Jen

May 24, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

No has mentioned the problem with African-American Educators graduating from HBCs (Historically Black Colleges) and not being able to pass the PRAXIS II. I taught next door to two different African-American men. Unfortunately, while both had college diplomas, neither passed the PRAXIS II, even after taking the test the maximum 5 times. Offhand, I can think of 4 or 5 other men on our faculty that wound up in the same position. They were hired with Provisional certificates and the understanding that by the end of three years, they would have to have a passing score on the PRAXIS II. None of them managed to pass the tests even after teaching the subjects the test would be over after 3 years. All of these men were educated at HBCs. In fact,there is one HBC that was known for the high failure rate of its graduates on the PRAXIS. Requirements in Georgia make the passing of this test mandatory. Are these the kind of teachers we want in public schools?

By Dan

May 24, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Sarah you are very right. However lets not forget that slavery was a despicable fact in every civilization and against people of all ethnicities at one time or another, and it continues today in many parts of the world.

By Cheryl

May 24, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Dan: I’m going to respectfully disagree with you. I’m not going to say that because your opinion differs from mine that you are being “politically incorrect/correct, left-wing/right-wing, liberal/conservative”; I’m simply going to disagree with you.

Funky:
I don’t understand what you are attempting to communicate; my first graders are better at getting their points across (and guess what? many of them are ‘disadvantaged’ as you call it; they still run circles around you when it comes to written communication).

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

And the problem with making kids especially black kids earn a desk and a chair or a book is this: we as a race always got the use hand me down books we got rain on in the building when we where trying to read we got beaten if the slave master caught us learning we even died.So you see people who are black if they do not learn the past they will be busy bodies not knowing there future.god siad my people perish for lack of knowledge.I’am really concern for my race for they allow the external to blind them from getting the internal.please my people wake up!!! and stop thinking you have arrive.Micheal Eric Dyson said it better.and so did Jawanza Kunjufu.and Dr. Arbar.

By yesiamworried

May 24, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

I think this would be awesome. In our school, the majority of African-American children are the products of single parent homes. Most have relocated to Metro Atlanta from other places (lots of apartments) and really don’t have any kind of extended support system. I will say that the first thing I look for in a teacher is qualifications— after that I think a person has to be a good fit for a school.

Occassionally, our very diverse school, inherits a teacher from a very undiverse school. They usually only make it a year. It isn’t easy to teach a wide variety of kids!

By James McCoy

May 24, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Cheryl:I’ll try to answer your question ,first we all tend to think because we live in America we all learn on the same level. Black Males are a endanger spieces and need the special care and love of someone keenly aware of these special needs. Who else but a Black man who is aware of his uniqiness.

By lynn

May 24, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

The KIPP model is a well respected and research proven method to improve student achievement. In other cities, the results have been outstanding. (See Houston and the Bronx) I can’t speak for this school, but it sounds like parents didn’t understand what they were signing up for and the school didn’t communicate well with parents ahead of time.

However, with the ability/Privilege to make an educational choice comes additional responsibiltity for both the student and parent(s). If isn’t for the family, that is the beauty of school choice, make a different one. One of the reasons that magnets and charter schools are often more successful than neighboring schools with similar populations is because families have to make a choice and a committment something not required of them by traditional public schools.

By Brent

May 24, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

It appears that most agree that having more male teachers would be a good thing, and I, too, agree that the more demographic balance we can achieve (gender, ethnicity, age, etc.) the better.

So the question then is how do we accomplish this? What is preventing more males from entering and/or staying in the teaching profession?

I certainly don’t claim to speak for all males, but I can share my own rationale for getting out of the field as quickly as I could.

DISCLAIMOR: I am about to make several gross generalizations here. I am fully aware that these absolutely do not apply in all cases and that there are many exceptions to what I am about to argue. Generalizations, however, become so because that tend to be true in a large number (though certainly not all) of cases. Anyway…

Money certainly is an issue. In general, I think money is a bigger issue for men than women. At least, men tend to perceive it as a bigger issue in many cases, because our society tends to program males to be the “bread winners.” So, when considering potential career choices, many men simply will not consider teaching because the compensation is still quite low when compared to other occupations requiring comparable levels of education.

But for me, the biggest issue was not money but rather the ridiculous working conditions. I know this varies from system to system, and even school to school — but in my case, I was expected to be an effective manager of my classroom and yet I was given absolutely no authority to do so. I had no authority over disciplinary issues — I could only refer students to administrators, who would generally assign 2 or 3 days of in-school suspension (a.k.a. nap time) at best. And as we all know from the recent case at Dacula, grades cannot be used as motivation for behavioral issues.

The only teachers I saw who had any real success reaching the more difficult students were those who had the ability to approach them more as a counselor or psychologist — to really understand and empathize with whatever underlying personal issues may be causing the child to act out. Well, unfortunately, that’s not me. And frankly, I think most men have litte patience for that sort of child psychology. Men tend to see things a bit more black-and-white — and in many cases we just don’t care WHY little Johnny is acting like a jerk, we only care that he IS acting like a jerk. And it is precisely that sort of no-excuses (and perhaps harsh) attitude that I think many kids need to see more of in schools — because they will certainly see plenty of it once they leave school.

Wow, sorry about the long post — in case you haven’t guessed, I was an English teacher & I tend to be a little long-winded… :)

By Mary

May 24, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

The KIPP concept is outrageous. I’m not in that type of community. If I were, I wouldn’t partake in that option. I work, I pay my taxes, I’m respectful to teachers, my child’s respectful to teachers. I expect them to be respectful to him and his peers also.
I do believe the model sends them a backwards message. We want better for our children. I really don’t want my child to start from 0 and build his way up. I want to give him opportunities I did not have, if possible. Not to say I give him everything possible, but every generation should strive to have their children start off better than they did, and their parents did, etc.

Like Lynn said, though. If I were in that school, and didn’t know the extreme, I would be quite upset. But, there’s an option… Remove your kid from the school. I have to believe there was information given to parents beforehand, and it was not properly received for whatever reason (but not the school’s fault).

By The dude

May 24, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

I think the solution has nothing to do with black male teachers or what not.

Bring back PADDLING AND SPANKINGS. That will straighten them out.

By Ms Harris

May 24, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Cynthia: Was there some secret slavery movement in the last 30 - 40 yrs that I didn’t know about? Please, you went to school and had every opportunity everyone else had. Do NOT bring up what happened 400 yrs ago, I wasn’t here and neither were you. I work hard, have an education so I don’t have to be around low income / low class people. I worked at Headstart (poorest of the poor) and finally quit because the kids were so badly behaved that it got to the point these 4 & 5 yr olds were stealing money out my wallet. Work hard and strive to do better, don’t idolize rappers, and don’t let your 8 yr old daughters dress like prostitutes. Let’s follow those ground rules to give some culture and self respect to Carver Home kids. How about it?

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

The school is a hoax down south and parents need to understand that.the Kipp Schools are filled with black and Lations the underserve.So you see study show that this school is only targeted towards the underserve which is not right at all.white people wouldn’t dare put there kids in a school as this. they have to much pride and dignity to allow there children to be belittle.Yes I agree the school up north is doing well!! but we are not up north.we are down south and people play on people intelligent down south not being truthful.now I can’t speak on others KIPP WAYS BUT THE ONE ON ASHBY STREET IS NOT GOOD AT ALL.ALL THE TEACHERS EXCEPT 2 LEFT THE SCHOOL FOR MANY REASON ONE I KNOW FOR SURE FALIURE TO COMMUNICATE.RESPECT,AND WILLING TO WORK WITH THE EMPLOYEES.THIS PRINCIPAL USE ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOL TO GET TRAIN AND LEFT AND STARTED KIPP WAYS.SO YOU SEE HIS INTENTION WAS TO GO IN WITH AGENDA AND CAPITALIZE ON ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT GAVE HIM ALL THE FREE TRAING AND TOOLS THAT WAS NEEDED.HE IS BRAIN WASHING THESE PARENTS AND THERE CHILDREN WITH THIS MODERN SLAVE MASTER TECHNIQUE.

By JB

May 24, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Educating our children is too important to take lightly. It is unwise to get so caught up on race that you make hasty decisions that affect a young person’s for their entire life. Racial prejudice stems from ignorance. If you are not exposed to a large variety of individuals in a given race you will develop stereotypes based on the few individuals that you do know. That is one reason why diversity is important. In a perfect world every school, college, and workplace would have an even mix of people of different races, and backgrounds. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world. Instead, we have to set priorities for the things that we can control. In the case of education, it would be a shame if we made the race of the teacher a priority. The limited resources of parents, teachers, and principals, should be focused on coming up with methods to help students learn and become useful members of society. Why are we spending time talking about race when our state is near the bottom of the list in education?!! Did anyone know that we’re spending more per student on kids in South Atlanta/South Fulton than almost anywhere in the state? Does anyone care that the test scores in South Atlanta and South Fulton are the lowest in the state? Can we have a blog where the great minds of our state can come together and brainstorm about how we can help our “at risk” youth on to the road of success? Regarding the Kipp School, I haven’t heard anything on this blog that makes me feel that they are doing anything wrong. The impression that I’m getting is that those students are being taught that an education is a privilege and not something to be taken for granted. Why is that wrong?

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Mrs Harris I’am going to tell you like someone with plenty wisdom told me. KEEP ON LIVING.you obiviously don’t understand that the teaching of Willie Lynch still live!!! and you didn’t have to born 400 yrs ago.you see what you are doing right now is part of the theory you against me because you feel like you sense along got you by!!NOT!!.YOU HAVE KIDS RIGHT!!! OH YOU WILL SEE JUST KEEP ON LIVIN!!!

By Mary

May 24, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Why are comments posted only between certain hours? Some really incoherent comments are coming through. I thought maybe some filtering was done, so the hours would be needed?

By Nicole

May 24, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

I believe there is a great need for males period in the school system. At this point in our society I do not believe race is an issue. As long as the teacher is aware of and willing to accept the level of influence he will have on all children, it would be wonderful to see more men in classrooms. I’m a single, african-american parent and my son has a caucasian male teacher who has been a very understanding and influential role model for my son. My son has enjoyed having a male teacher/role model, his race has never been an issue or deterent.

By lynn

May 24, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

JB:You are not going to hear about this mess!!!I know first hand about this school that is degrading those black kids constantly!! you JB have not witness the unbelievable slave technique that is brain washing those kids.this principal have the help of black people to assist with this action .and did i mention how he hook up with a principal at a school call Centennial in Atlanta Public School and he don’t even suppose to be on the property at all,but he did with the invite of the principal he was recruiting kids who had low test scores and with the approval she was willing to let him have his pick!!! that’s wrong on both principal behave.But they don’t care because this principal at KIpp WAYS ON ASHBY STREET GET TO FILL HIS SCHOOL AND THE PRINCIPAL AT CENTNNIAL GET TO GET RID OF THE LOW PERFORMING STUDENTS.WHICH HALF OF THEM OR KIDS WHO WAS FORMER RESIDENT OF THE OLD TECHWWOOD APARTMENT!!SO YOU SEE THIS MAN AND OTHER IN POSITION ARE DOING SOME LOW DOWN THINGS AT OUR KIDS EXPENSE,BUT WITH THE BLINDNESS OF OUR PARENTS IT WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.I KNOW THIS SCHOOL HAVE A BIGGER AGENDA THEN TEACHING OUR KIDS.IT’S A STUDY! WAKE UP BLACK PEOPLE!!!

By Lashelle

May 24, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Cynthia sweetheart, If blacks keep using Willie Lynch and slavery to keep them down, then why don’t the Jews use Hitler? Willie Lynch is not responsible for 70% illegimatcy rate, drive by killings, gangster rappers, or BET. This is our own doing. Take a cue from Oprah, Condelezza Rice, Collin Powell, Sean Combs, Spike Lee, and the other blacks who have succeeded, stop worrying about what others say you can’t do, and do what you need to do That’s how you keep on living

By Patti

May 24, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

Hey Mary,

This blog, like others sponsored by the AJC can only accept comments from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., because we need to be able to monitor the discussion and keep out obscene comments.

We have filters that screen for obvious curse words, but still some words inappropriate for children get posted. I try to delete them ASAP. Although the general audience for Get Schooled is adults, several kids have posted, which means many kids read it.

I do not delete posts because of grammatical problems or controversial statements. I want to promote free and open discussion, and if I started policing the site for more than obscenity, it would feel like censoring, and I’m not into that.

The blogosphere is new territory, and I’m stumbling around just like everybody else. I try to make the best decision possible based on the specific situation.

I appreciate the feedback from blog readers and posters on how to govern this community.

Patti Ghezzi

By Lucian

May 24, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

Some of you need to learn some very basic English. Ever heard of the concept that the subject and verb should match? And you dare complain about the schools??

If you don’t want your kids in KIPP then take them out. DUH. Do your homework next time and figure out what you are signing up for. You obviously have internet access, so find out what a program is before you blindly enroll your kids. That is your responsibility.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

LASHELL: sweet heart you ask all those entertainer who may i say own there companies how hard it was and still is now the difference is they are owner except condeleeza who is a bit diffrent.Please don’t even come at me with this mess did you even know that Sean P Diddy was told by his teacher he needed to be in speacial ed class you didn’t,and was so don’t come at me with your modern day status.I know you are waling in the world with your house and car and you name brand clothes and you have plenty to eat.so you doing good you made it you have the right to tell me what you are telling me.BRAVO!!! BUT YOUR WRONG.LASHELL YOU PROBABLY GET DISCRIMNATED ABOUT YOUR NAME WHEN YOU ARE CALL BY IT OR EVEN LOOK FOR ONE.SO I’AM PRAYING YOU OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

By Lucian

May 24, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Cynthia you are probably the most ignorant person I’ve encountered in a very long time. It’s sad.

By Lashelle

May 24, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Cynthia, Only two are entertainers and I have a Degree in Business and have worked for two of the largest stock brokerage firm in the country. I am a single mother going to school to received my Masters in English and will become a college professor. Cynthia, you are a very ignorant young woman. I hope you don’t have Kids

By JB

May 24, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

Lynn - If the Kipp School is all that bad maybe you can write something up and send it to someone in Kathy Cox’s office (how did she get elected???). In the meantime, you have an uphill battle. I just did a quick check of Kipp school on Google and it looks like those guys have an amazing track record with raising the level of education for students. If you have research showing that there is a better way, please share it with everyone. We all have to do everything we can to help these kids have the success that they deserve.

By CASSIE

May 24, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

Lucian: YOU ARE SO WRONG IN THIS CASE YOU HAVE NO IDEA ON WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON!!! HOW CAN YOU CALL SOME IGNORANT WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON.SEE YOU FIT THE PROFILE FOR BEING A IGNORANT YOU SPEAK BEFORE KNOWING THE FACT ON WHAT AND WHO YOU ARE CALLING IGNORANT.CONTINUE TO SPEAK BEFORE SPOKEN TO AND LOOK AT YOUR FACE BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONE IGNORANT!!!! YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION AND LISTEN.THAT’S IT. SIR.

By James

May 24, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

Black children will have black role models, just the same as all other children, if they are born into a two parent home, one mother and one father. When an unwed black woman has a child does she not realize this child may not have a strong positive black role model at home? Studies show that seventy-five per cent of all balck children in the US in 2004 were born to single parnets, unwed mothers. With that great of a number, it is unrelistic to assume the gap of a positive black male role model will be provided for outside the home, in school. Role models, positive and those that are not so positive, begin at home.

By LaShell

May 24, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

Most importantly, all of the people I name went to college and worked for someone else before they owned their own business. Hince, the secret, education and hard work

By Mary

May 24, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

Patti, I totally understand. I went to get lunch, and I was thinking about it. There’s no obscenity in her posts, it’s just really hard to decipher what she’s trying to say. I think that harms her more than the thread. It’s hard for anyone to take her comments seriously, or respectfully. And, that’s sad, because she may have some good points, but unable to convey them. Patti, I’ve only been commenting since mid last week. Maybe I should change my name to something more recognizable. Lord knows, I have plenty to comment about when it comes to GA schools.

Cynthia, I’m talking about you. You’ve very difficult to understand. Bill Cosby is talking about you. You’re the one on the corner he can’t understand, if that’s truly the way you speak.

Lucian, You’re somewhat fortunate. I hear this ‘speak’ frequently in various areas of Dekalb, since that’s where I live. My child has come home talking this way on occasion, when he’s “joking” with me. He doesn’t do that anymore. When we moved to GA, it was part of the culture shock he received. I was raised in Stone Mtn, GA. Graduated 1992 from Stone Mtn High, and went to Stone Mountain Middle when it was called Stone Mountain II and only housed 1 grade during it’s reconstruction. Also went to Stone Mountain Elementary. The areas have all changed, and I do not understand the language children use amongst themselves in some of these schools. Inside the school, I hope they talk more proper to their teachers.

I’m certainly not perfect. I’m notorious for typing in all lowercase when I’m in a hurry!

By Connie

May 24, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

I wonder if someone isn’t posting under the name “Cynthia” just to get a rise out of people?

But if you are a real person….

If it weren’t for your seeming anger at the world and your inadequate handle on the Enlish language, I would suggest perhaps you should look into home schooling since you seem to think no one can educate your children properly.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

LASHELLE:Why the name calling oh le me guess your doing the Willie Lynch theory.Instead of you saying something that will enchance my view from where you coming from you belittle me.How dare you!! sister you can’t do that you the degree DUH what do that mean to me.when i see people who don’t even have a degree of other nationality get paid tops 60,000 a year.But you had to go to school intern eat oodle noodle and evertything else but you with your Bill Cosby syndrome feel like you have the right to call me ignorant.Not!!! you are the one who don’t have commnon sense to know your paper work alone Lashelle means nothing.You are Ignorant for not being Intelligent but you are ROBOTIC.SISTER. PEACE.WAKE UP OH INVEST MICHEAL DYSON BOOK YOU MY LEARN SOMETHING BESIDE CLASSISM.

By Dumas

May 24, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

ok Lashelle. A college professor eh? You mite wont to lern to spel more gooder and chuze yer werds gooder two.

By J

May 24, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

For those individuals who keeping stating slavery happend 400 yrs ago, a few things. First, the Civil War, which essentially ended slavery in this country, ended in 1865. Thats less than 150 yrs. After that there was share-cropping system that continued the system of slavery (to a lesser extent) and its impact on blacks. More recently and more related to this blog is that fact that Brown v. Board of Education was decided only 50 yrs ago. Around the same time, inspired people were marching on the Capital to achieve equality between whites and blacks in every aspect of American life. Therefore, it is incorrect to state that American slavery and its impact are things of the very distant past. The ideals that led to slavery are the same as those that led to separate but equal, Jim Crow and the hate crimes that continue to this day. And if you still don’t believe that race matters in this country I suggest that you take a socialism or anthropolgy class or read books such as Race Matters.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

Mary:I’am going to tell you like GOD TOLD EVERYBODY:How can you take the log out my eye when you need to get it out your own eye!! It’s call perjection and that why Mr.Cosby right now in the trouble he is in.Judge and be Judge. thank you for helpin me be real

By LaShelle

May 24, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

Cynthia

Ignorant is not a name, it’s a adjective. Hince, you are acting ignorant Read Success Runs in Our Race and The Black Guide to Succeed Through Positive Thinking. OR just read

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

Lashelle:oops i guess you not so smart,i’am sorry we all have short coming.Mrs college.

By Britt

May 24, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

From Paul: I agree with most everyone on this topic. There is no doubt blacks do better with black teachers and the same goes for whites. That is why they shouldnt try to force blacks to go to white schools. Paul: I am going to disagree with you on this one. I am a female white college student who grew up in a Predominately white neighborhood, family and upbringing. Upon entering my first classes in my major I was introduced to the most wonderful teacher that I have had thus far. So much so that I have made sure I get as many as her classes that I can. Guess what???: She is a black female. So no- not all black people/white people learn better from their own races. In my opinion it is good to have adult influences outside of your race. Maybe then children of today can be able to see outside of racism and prejudice. Not only have I learned alot from this teacher dealing with my major but I have learned to have the highest respect for other races. You never know what another person has gone through. Don’t assume that all races do better within groups of the same race…b/c if that were true then how are ever going to become open-minded and respectful of others?

By Karin

May 24, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that ANYTHING that will get children to attend school should be considered. After reading (ha!) this blog, it seems a lot of the contributors missed MANY days of school.

By cynthia

May 24, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this

I’am sorry that you seem so upset maybe you need to read It’s call the bible.It will help you to understand why you feel like your sitting on top of the world. when you really not.

By Mary

May 24, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this

Cynthia, We live in a very judgemental society. That’s a given. I meant no offense by my words. Bill Cosby needed to say what he said, for himself and the communities. I don’t recall him saying he’s perfect, or saintly. Some good will come out of his comments, as well as bad. Unfortunately, right now, the natural inclination is for some communities to become defensive and attack the commenter (Bill Cosby).

By Eve

May 24, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

This is for J, Right on!

The problem will never be resolved if people keep taking shots at one another instead of coming together to create a solution. One’s background doesn’t dictate whom they will become, let’s just keep that in mind—that was to all the Cynthia bashers. Especially Ms. Smarty Pants LaShelle.

By Vik

May 24, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

Lashelle, THANK YOU! You’ve got it right! FINALLY! Cynthia: think about what Lashelle’s telling you before you say anything else “black”. Listen to what Bill Crosby is telling black people. He’s on the right track too.

By lady

May 24, 2005 05:38 PM | Link to this

Cynthia: My commentary to you is this…if you were so unhappy with the school, why didn’t you leave the school before the end of the year? Was your child not getting adequate/above adequate education? Was your child not getting what he/she needed for the best possible education? Why did you have your child at KIPP initially? Was it because you didn’t have any other options?

If you didn’t like what your child was getting why didn’t you take him/her out before the end of the school year? Why are you so bent so spreading venom? Why are you so angry? It would be different if you were demonstrating some responsibility before this point. It would be different if you hadn’t wait