Get Schooled

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

I do not know if I would have went to such extremes as to fire “Doc” Some other action could have been taken. If the student had a good grade and the student deserved the grade then Doc should not have cut it in half due to sleeping. That is what they have detention for. When you do something that is not of the teacher’s standards you usually get detention or something. I have never heard of a teacher cutting a grade in half because the student did something unsatisfactory. The Doc was innapropriate for doing such but the school district was innapropriate for firing him….they should have taken other actions…give him leave for a month or 2..watch his teaching moves ever so closely now…something…but he could have a family that depends on his income for bills and food. Who knows he could have been a great teacher outside of his rediculous punishment to this student.

By MG

May 6, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Wow, congrats to the principal and Gwinnett Cty school board for underscoring for the rest of the world what takes top priority in the school system. Believe it or not, Dacula HS, the point of school is to LEARN, not to have a good football team. And to think this is supposed to be one of the better school systems in Georgia!?

Education will never improve in this state until it becomes a priority for parents and school systems. We should all be thanking “Doc” for exposing the hyprocrisy in the Gwinnett Cty school system. More power to the parents and students who are supporting him, and recognize this for what it is.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

To the writer of this column - did the school board “ask” you to remove all of those replies all of a sudden? How coinkydink

By Catrina

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

You wonder why Georgia has such low ratings with our Education System. You should be ashamed of yourself for firing such a well qualified teacher because you can’t say that for most of our teachers. We have very few that are teaching for the love of teaching. He did exactly what he needed to do! What are we telling our children about getting an education. If you don’t do the work, guess what you can still get an “A” or pass the class. I have lived in Gwinnett all of my life the school system sucked back then and it looks like it has not changed.
Thank goodness for Private Schools because that is where my son will be attending.

By Jerry

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Exactly what is considered disciplinary? If an assignment is marked down for being late, is that disciplinary? I’m also bothered by the fact that Doc’s policy went unquestioned for 10 years. This may be a case of either an overzealous administrator or overly influential parent.

By Clay

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

Sounds like Brittney needs to either go back to school to learn correct grammar or attend summer school to bone up on her deficiencies if she is still in school.

By Lisa

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

This teacher is justified in his actions. He is trying to teach a class, his job, while the student is supposed to listen and learn, his job. If you mess up on a job, you pay the price. The student should have paid the price. All that has been gained is that as an athlete, you can break the rules and not get punished. Besides, the teacher was trying to educate the student so that, when and if the athlete is ever interviewed ther woun’t be another “un well ya know” and ” uh huh, well uh…” interview. He might actually learn something. I say the teacher should stay!!!

By Dot Richard

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

I would like to know when the School Board instituted the rule. Less than 5 years ago when my last child (thank God) was in the infamous Gwinnett Public Schools your behavious in class certainly did effect your daily grades and I support that. No wonder teachers can’t control class rooms. And yes my child did get reduced grades and I supported the teacher totally. Oh, I forgot Gwinnett does not teach to learn they teach “To Test”. I would like to know the one board member that voted no. Gwinnett County Public Schools are a joke and when the silent majority finally sits up and takes notice (if ever) they will realize this and demand changes. Their Gestapo tactics with their teachers and also oupspoken parents or anyone that disagrees with them are outrageous.

Hope the teacher wins and sues (yes I know I’ll be the one paying) and wins.

By JG

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

Sleeping in class??? Why are we even talking about this? What kind of parents and administrators would NOT support the teacher in this case? This is a sad commentary….

By Robert

May 6, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Just another reason why Georgia has GOT to get a strong, real, teacher’s union.

Please don’t come back with our current organization, PAGE. PAGE is nothing and readily admits that it is no union. Without a real teacher’s union, good teachers doing the right thing can be pushed around just as is the case with Neace.

By MariettaMom

May 6, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Somebody please call Michael Moore and beg him to make his next documentary about football in the south!

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately, I am not at all surprised they fired of Doc. I anticipated that the Board would take this stance, thinking that if they didn’t, it would completely undermine their and Principal Nutt’s authority. With so much publicity surrounding this issue, they probably felt that they had no choice. It was either fire Doc or they would have to eventually let Principal Nutt go.

What really bothers me are the many serious allegations against Principal Nutt that I’ve been reading in these blogs. If they are true, then there is a very incompetent principal heading up a very large educational facility in Duluth, and if he is that incompetent, why hasn’t a strong, concerted effort to remove him been started? If I was a parent of children in or about to enter DHS, I think I’d be working on that one.

By Seaborn

May 6, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

This isn’t about of a failing student begging for a better grade. From what I read, this student actually earned a good grade, so I don’t agree with the teacher. If they want to discipline the student, there are other ways to do it. Did anyone suggest that the student be barred from athletic activities for a specified time, or that his sleeping would go on his permanant record? If the school policy says you can’t lower grades as a disciplinary measure then the teachers are obligated to follow that. The student’s athletic status has nothing to do with it. The teacher was given a chance to comply, he didn’t, so he deserved to get canned.

By Erin

May 6, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

No wonder it’s so difficult to attract and maintain quality teachers when school boards are firing exceptional teachers for refusing to change grades for student athletes. And SHAME on the parents who brought this case to the principal. Why would any parent demand their student be allowed to sleep in class? I would be humiliated to let anyone know that I had such poor parenting skills to raise a child who doesn’t accept the consequences of their actions. If the syllabus says grades are lowered for sleeping in class, what sort of student would go home and complain to their parents, and what sort of parents would complain to a principal about their child’s sleeping in class affecting their grade? How I would love to be the professor at this student’s college of choice that fails him for sleeping in class. Doc, you make me proud to be a teacher. Good for you for standing up for what is right. Finally, someone with some integrity!

By edge770

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

This is just another example of a long list of incidents where Gwinnett has some totally inept school administrators and school board members who are philosophically out of touch. Whether it be presenting plays that tell parents not to spank kids, or not allow Neal Boortz to appear on Campus, refusing to answer legitimate issues of student welfare. It’s obvious that they need to clean house and bring “Doc” back. If this tactic was tried at other local school systems, they would promote and give “Doc” a raise. It’s obvious J. Alvin and the frilly types need to be removed from their positions post haste. If I was a parent in Gwinnett the kid would have been pulled out a LONG time ago.

By JS

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

A role model cuts a “role models” grade for sleeping in class! How could he do such a thing to a poor athlete? He has a future, a long life as a STAR. Who says the jocks don’t get a break? Maybe the school board should investigate other teachers and find out if this student and others may be getting more breaks. I mean I knoe precious needs his sleep but come on. Maybe his parents should support this teacher and use it as a learning tool for the future. Oh I forgot he is an athlete he will dictate what he does and doesn’t do.

By Margaret

May 6, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

I’m very disappointed and distrubed by the Gwinnett County Board of Education. It is a sad day that our educators have no rights. Where are we heading?

I hope the football player is happy with his “unearned” grade. Wonder would happen if I spent during my job?

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

The School Board needs to change it’s policy. In college, if you skip too many classes, many teachers will deduct points from your overall grade. How is Neace’s policy any different? In the work force, you can’t sleep on the job, why should you be allowed to sleep in class? If one of the purposes of high school is to prepare our children for the rest of their lives, coddling them won’t do them any favors. Instead of firing Neace, the School Board needs to explain why teachers can’t use grades as discipline? What is the logic behind that policy?

By mike fitzgerald

May 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

What a travesty. But then again, this action against the teacher is just a sign of our society’s failure to hold people, such as this particular student, responsible for their actions. It is obvious the school board has the “puppet” principal, who appears to be solely interested in protecting his backside, in their pocket. I long for those days when I was in school back in the 50s/60s. You learned, you were respectful of your teachers; teachers didn’t run scared from the school board; the school board was an advisory organization that supported the superintendant, principal and teachers; the school board respected the superintendant, principal and teachers and understood the job they were there to do. Society has changed and this has impacted our educational institutions in an adverse way. This instance is just one more example of what is wrong today with our education system.

mike fitzgerald normal, il

By 4mer tchr

May 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

As a former teacher with Atlanta City schools, I can say that disciplining a teacher for refusing to change a grade isn’t an anomaly. At J.C.Young Middle School, our Principal changed ALL failing grades, regardless of documentation. I’m just wondering how Mr. Neace had the option to refuse.

By Swan

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

For those jumping on the “Larry Neace should have followed the board’s policy” bandwagon, my question still remains unanswered. If Neace’s classroom policies were so much at odds with the board, why has nothing been said or done for the last 10 years? Why is this happening now?

My sympathy goes to the students of Dacula High School (minus one). They’re the ones truly losing out in this situation. It looks like football trophies matter more at DHS than education.

By Rand

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

I think that Doc should be reinstated. To grade students on classroom participation is great. If you sleep or waste time you should be penalized. I have a bigger issue that Doc was fired for a policy that has been in place for 10 years. The students were well aware of his policy and seemed to fully support it. My main issue is now with the Dacula HS administration. Why did they not enforce the school board policy? Isn’t that part of their job? Shouldn’t they be held to the same accountablity standards as the teacher. I say if you fire the Doc, you should also fire the administration that also broke the policy.

By Tom Boyette

May 6, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Georgia’s education system would benefit greatly by having 2,000+ educators like Doc. Doc lives up to his high standards in ethics and accountability. He expects no less from his students. I hope Doc’s job is restored at Dacula for the sake of the students. If not, Dacula’s lost will certainly be another school’s gain.

Hang in there Doc.

By Zeek

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

What a shame…the Georgia school system is so broken that the administrators refuse to even see the problems.
Students sleeping in class and the preferential treatment given to atheletes is at least part of the problem with the Georgia school system and the low SAT scores. If you want half-hearted attempts by students and half-educated kids with inflated grades trying to succeed in college, support sleeping in class. I actually interviewed an 18 year old the other day for a minimum wage, entry level job who showed up with an “I dunno” attitude, his pants down with his boxers showing and an eyebrow ring in his forehead. His mother called back a couple of days ago to ask why he didn’t get a call back on the job…go figure.

By Maria Miller

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

I don’t even live in Georgia and after reading this article and the one about cockfights, I believe the “good ole system” of doing things is alive and well in Georgia. The very idea of firing a teacher because he has expectations of a FOOTBALL player! That could like keep them from winning a championship. I am behind the teacher 100% and think the rest of the state needs to grow up a lot.

By Tom Barksdale

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

Neace’s firing is justified only if the Board was implementing a standing, enforced policy on not using grades to impose discipline. The rule itself seems reasonable, and if it’s been enforced in the past, any teacher violating it should be fired.

The only question in this case is whether the Board is practicing discrimination and enforces the rule only when a football player is involved. Even then, Neace probably would have to be fired, but voters should then fire the Board at the next election. Or ask for its recall.

By Amber Hall

May 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

I had Doc Neace for 3 years while attending Dacula High. He was definitely one of the best teachers I’ve ever had. I firmly believe that whatever grade Doc Neace decided to give the student was appropriate. He treats his students fairly, and you get the grade you deserve.

By CM

May 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

On behalf of teachers everywhere, a great shout out of support to Mr. Neace!!!

By Adam

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I cannot believe this! This kid will never be ready for the real world. He probably thinks he does not need school because he is going to be a professional football player. Where I went to college, I had professors that would deduct points off your final grade for every class you missed and showed up late for! I have only been out of college for a couple of years and I remember high school very well and if you slept or wasted class time you better believe you suffer the consequences! I hope the school system suffers from this ruling.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I think there is a VERY fine line with grading students. The reality is…if students aren’t DOING WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, then their “participation grade” is effected and SHOULD BE EFFECTED! I don’t think this has anything to do with discipline…it has to do with DOING WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT! And in this case, the student should be completing homework at home (and sleeping!) and participating in class!

Are we enabling a generation of young people to have no work ethic and go through job after job? or are we as teachers, allowing students to practice being an adult, in an attempt to create successful, competent adults?

By tara

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I went to school at Dacula High in 1994 of all the teachers I remember Doc was the most upfront and honest! Doc was there to make sure we learned. The school board was wrong for letting him go! Not many teachers care to make a difference in students lives, Doc did. Doc will be missed. The principle was wrong. I hope the other teachers get tired of the principles bulling as well. Then maybe the board of education will see what they have allowed to be in control of their school.

By Jessalyn Anglin

May 6, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this

This is yet another reason why I dislike Gwinnett County schools.

By Lance D

May 6, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this

Apparently it isn’t embarrasing enough for this state to have the worst high school graduation rate in the nation. Now you have principals like Donnie Nutt at Dacula and superintendent of Gwinnett Schools J.Alvin Wilbanks firing the most experienced science teacher at a high school that is known to have its share of discipline and academic problems, just so a star football player and his overzealous parents can have their way. Gwinnett can’t find enough good teachers to work in the system, can’t keep some of the ones they have now, but that apparently is not the primary concern of Principal Nutt or Superintendent Wilbanks. No, apparenty the eligibility of star athletes takes precedence over the retention of an experienced and by all accounts well-like physics teacher. We certaintly can’t let something like discipline in the classroom get in the way of winning football games. Explains why Principal Nutt hires football coaches to teach algebra. It is a shame that the people we entrust to teach our kids about the world have decided it is better to kowtow to a star athlete and his father who is trying to live vicariously through his son’s exploits, rather than keep an experienced teacher employed so that many generations of kids that pass through that school come out smarter than when they started. Dacula parents: if you’re more concerned about your children’s education than you are about the success of the football team, then it should be your mission to get Principal Nutt and/or Alvin Wilbanks removed in favor of someone who will be dedicated to education. After all, if one parent can get a outstanding teacher fired, imagine what a whole group of parents can get done. And the AJC needs to correct something: Mr. Neis was on 680 The Fan this morning, and he stated the assignment given was due the same day, not an overnight one. That’s an important distincion in this sad case.

By Mike

May 6, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Only in Georgia! It is sad to see the educational system undermined by such issues.

When we’re not making the state’s schools look like havens for religious zealots, we lovingly support students who make the state’s educational system seem like a primetime reality show. If I were the parent of that athlete, I’d make sure I raise a stink with my child about his sleeping in class, not the teacher. Nevertheless, I always fail to remember that in these days schools are for babysitting and not learning.

Perhaps the student should get his grade after all. Maybe he’ll learn his lesson as he tries to enter the real world. And with that I don’t mean UGA.

—Mike

By Andrew Phillips

May 6, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

This is typical Gwinnett County school system, they will go after this teacher with both barrels and try to get him banned for life while protecting the football player. The teacher probably already recevied a phone call from the GWSD police about his coming arrest. Gwinnet County schools rule by fear.

By Susan Helber

May 6, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

My father lost a teaching job years ago in the 1950’s in rural Missouri. The school board wanted to hire a coach and decided to sacrifice the favorite and only science teacher in order to get the money. Well, Dad went on to become a well loved and respected teacher in a well known private school and spent a number of years there surrounded by intelligent professors and townspeople. Years later, after a newspaper article on him, the ignorant men who fired him, realized their mistake and one attempted to apologize. Meanwhile the little town had gone from bad to worse. Needless to say - Dad was not impressed by the apology. I was thankful we got out of there when we did! Actions such as this against “Doc” Nease are examples of ways to erode our already “bottom of the totem pole” status in terms of education and how the rest of the nation views Georgia. Watch out! Stupid people on school boards and in other places of power will erode your cultural environment - kids won’t get exposed to the type of education they need to reach their full potential, to get decent jobs and function well with others in society.

By Carol

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

Seaborn - you’re kidding, right? The student’s “permanent record?” That really exists?

By Mike Layman

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

Having 4 children of my own in school, I do not agree with the teacher using grades to punish a student. If the student has completed the work and made the grade, they should get the grade. BUT, I do believe that the student who falls asleep in class, or has other disruptive behavior should be punished. At the very least, as a parent, I would expect a notice from the school concerning the issue and I would expect detention and/or addition class work for my children. Also, I do not agree with the School Board releasing the teacher. I am sure that some alternate solution could be worked out. If the Board has allowed the teacher to instill punishment in this manner for a number of years, it should not be grounds for dismissal now.

By Chris

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

I’m the son of a retired public school teacher. I’ve grown up watching what teachers have to deal with. Having said that, it appears that the firing has more to do with this one teacher acting like he’s bigger than the system and above the rules. I get the impression that there is more to this than the simple reduction of a grade for an athlete who was asleep.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

The school board has exercised their authority to fire Mr. Neace. If the good citizens of Gwinett do not approve of the way the board handled this situation, they can exercise their authority to fire the school board - at the next election.

By Gilda Little

May 6, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

This sad incident speaks volumnes for the way we value discipline in our schools. A 23 year veteran teacher must be valued above a student athelete who is falling asleep in his class! Gwinnett County schools can ill afford to fire such a teacher who stood up for his principles, I say reinstate this teacher immediately!! And, I might add, get rid of the School Board that fired him.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

So I wonder if this kid was in the band if everyone would be trying to stereotype band students? This is a sad situation for the Doc’s students, but has nothing to do with the fact this kid was a football player. The child in question is an A/B student and cutting this one grade would have no effect on his ability to play football. This is about an employee (Doc Neace) openly and boldly breaking school policy and being insubordinate to his boss (The Principal). Not sure about where you work, but if I refused to follow rules or openly argued with my boss I would be fired. Why should Doc Neace be treated any different? Disagree with the school board policy, but don’t let the media coverage allow you to think this is a football vs education situation. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

By MJ

May 6, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

The lone school board member who voted against Doc’s termination was Carol Boyce. Her children all attended Dacula High School. Of the five who voted, the one who knows the teacher best voted in favor of him. The others went on word of the administrators who seem to have a bone to pick with this teacher.

By N Cahill

May 6, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

The school board really messed up on this one. “Doc” has shown that he cares about these students and their future, not just passing a student along because he/she is an athlete or has some other connection. I applaud him for standing up for what he feels is right. I hope the school board will do the same and reconsider undoing the wrong they have done this man and his students.

By Teacher

May 6, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

It’s obvious we don’t know all the circumstances, but we should support any teacher who is willing to take such a stand. It’s obvious a 20+ year veteran teacher facing the loss of retirement benefits wouldn’t take such a stand unless it was the right thing to do. Even if not completely right, should he be fired? It’s probably just an administrator who had it out for him found an excuse to get rid of him. I feel bad for the kids that have to lose a great teacher for the next few weeks before exams! Great move administrators! It’s just sad. This is exactly why I quit teaching in public school and went to private school. Sure, for those of you who complain about using grades as punishment without even knowing what really went on, there is detention and whatnot at schools, but that is useless in most public schools. Where I used to work, any detention would be skipped with absolutely no consequences. Where I went to school, you would be suspended for 5 days with no grades on the first occasion of skipping detention, and on the second occasion expelled. And that was a public school. While in detention students polished the brass on the hallway floors with toothbrushes. And parents never questioned teachers and fully supported the system. And as a result teachers had the time and passion to care about the students’ education, and most became productive members of society as a result. Teachers are now burnt out not from teaching but from dealing with all the baggage of being totally disrespected by students, parents, and administrators. I’ve always said teaching in public school is like being thrown into the deep end of a pool with your hands cuffed behind your back. I’m happy, in a way, for Doc because he doesn’t have to deal with it anymore! Some good private or public school will sign him on in a heartbeat if he doesn’t retire.

By Hurray4Doc

May 6, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

And we wonder what is wrong with our youth today. What happened to personal responsibility? The school system and his parents have taught this young man an invaluable lesson - that he’s not responsible and he doesn’t have to play by the rules. We need more teachers like “Doc”. Thank you “Doc” for not compromising your values and principles.

By Dreez

May 6, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

This is of no surprise to me. If a son or daughter plays sports and grades affect their ability to play, it must be the teachers fault, and it seems the Gwinnett BoE has stepped right into the cow patty in the rush to support that system by firing an obviously talented teacher. …..hmm, wonder what they would have done if he was a coach???

By Jules in Decatur

May 6, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jerry, below. And what, exactly, is wrong with using interim grades as a disciplinary tool? We see how poorly detention works!

If Mr. neace openly practised the policy of reducing grades for students who slept in class for ten years, without issue, do ya THINK the administrators were influenced to discipline Neace because the student was a school athelete? Gee, I wonder…

The administrators who fired Meace should be demoted, and Meace should be reinstated and recieve a public apology.

By Cathy

May 6, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Well another case of a school board in the state of Georgia making a decision that makes no sense when it comes to education. Make’s you wonder where board members got their education. Since the school board seems to take pleasure in teaching our children it’s o.k. to goof off in school, maybe when our children can’t go to college or find a job because of lack of motivation or ambition we can send them to the board members home to live out their lives.

By Mark Fuller

May 6, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

I admire Mr. Neace for not tolerating behavior like this in his class. It’s amazing how a teacher gives 23 years of service to this school and then the school board decides to fire him because he doesn’t allow a student to sleep in his class and disrespect him as a teacher. If my one of my daughters got her grade lowered because she was sleeping in class I would tell her she got just what she deserved. Stay awake next time. But once again, what we have here is parents who defend their children when their WRONG. The folks that should be fired in this situation are those on that school board who voted to fire Mr. Neace. To the school board (support the teacher and get your tail out from between your legs).

By Kelly

May 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

I will say again what I’ve been saying for years… Its time to oust the school board and start again. The gwinnett county school board has obviously forgotten why they are in office to begin with. Getting rid of Wilbanks is a must. Remember this incident next time you go to the polls!

By Kathy

May 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

I work in a high school in the Clayton County school system. Let me tell you how much of a precedence athletics has over academics. I have been asked to change records so that students can compete in athletic events many times. This is WRONG! People wonder why test scores are so low in the state of Georgia..it is because the state of Georgia places academics at the very bottom of the barrel of importance. Parents know that in Clayton County all they have to do is “get loud” and they get what they want. It does NO good to tell parents what the rules or laws are when the administration goes right ahead and allows the parents to get their way. It completely discredits anything the teachers, staff, etc have said or done. What does this teach the kids? It teaches them that when they break the rules they can get away with anything…no accountability! And the state wonders why they have a shortage of teachers…Go figure! I hope that Dr. Neace sues and wins big…I applaud his ethics!

By Peter

May 6, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this

Let’s all be thankful Gwinnett County isn’t any larger than it is, or more of us would be subjected to the idiocy of Gwinnett County administrators whether it is the school board, or the any of the other notorious government boards in that county.

By Willie A. Robinson

May 6, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

 "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND"

If a student is allowed to sleep in any class, how can this student become prepared to pass various nation wide academic tests to enter or not enter colleges and universities?

By Jen

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I think the teacher did the right thing. However, GCS is not the only system with senseless rules. In another metro school system, we are required to allow students to make up work REGARDLESS of the reason for the absence. This means, if a student skips a class, the teacher has to allow the student to make the work up. Even if this includes skipping a class to avoid a test. I actually had this happen to me this year and there was nothing I could do. I gave the student detention and the “poor child” could not serve it because her mother could not drop her off early or pick her up late after school. When I wrote a referral for her missing detention, I was told since transportation was a problem I had to arrange another punishment. Basically, I was punished because the child could not be bothered to come to class. The child didn’t care, her mother likes to come to the school, make a scene and have the administration bend to her will. These problems are prevelant across the metro area. I would love to see if there are other examples of rules implemented in schools that make no sense.

By Anita Gagel

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

The policy needs changed. What the teacher did was perfectly acceptable.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I want to encourage each of you to NOT LET THIS STOP HERE. If we as a community, or even a State, allow this to happen and continue to happen, we have only ourselves to blame.

Meet with school adminstrators and let them know how strongly you feel about quality teaching and to keep this kind of BS out of our schools. Since Georgia has no kind of teachers union to support quality teaching, it is solely left up to YOU!!!!

Otherwise, this type of thing will continue to happen more and more frequently. Good teachers have to have strong support from administration who in turn gets their support from the community.

By Angie

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett residents need to press for the removal of J. Alvin Wilbanks, chairman of the school board. Didn’t I read less than two years ago that Mr. Wilbanks was under investigation for pressing teachers and administrators to reclassify violent crimes in Gwinnett schools so that they wouldn’t lose federal funding. This man is absolutely corrupt!

As for the coach and principal at this school, they are the ones who need to be fired. They enable children to fail at reaching their academic potential.

By Chris Carson

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Is anyone really surprised that the school board would support a sleeping student over a disciplined science teacher?

Of course they will stand behind their policy…as if that didn’t need to be changed too. How do we expect teachers to teach our kids in an atmosphere where they can not discipline their students?

Gwinnett County…we support sleeping in the classroom!

Good grief!

By kandidkathy

May 6, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

Well this just goes to show you that the policy of “No child left behind” is in full compliance. Students can still sleep and get a perfect grade. What about respect for the teacher of staying awake in his class which was a class policy as well. Come on school board get your head out of the sand. We need experienced seasoned teachers. I am sure this wasn’t his first rodeo in dealing with this boy. The only children that are going to be left behind in this case are the kids that weren’t horsing around and sleeping and got their work done on time. Because this poor teacher had to disrupt his class to explain all of this to little johnnie. I am sure, since he is a football player that he wouldn’t understand what he did was wrong I mean we all need naps in advanced classes. And I am sure that it is the Football policy to include nap time. I have a feeling all the smart kids got left behind in this classroom ya think?

By Bill

May 6, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

Reason # 17b why you need to take your kid(s) out of the government schools and put them in a private school of your choice. This way, if you don’t like what is happening at that school, you can CHOOSE to take your kid(s) out and put them somewhere else you CHOOSE to instead of being TOLD by the government where THEY choose for your kids to be.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

People keep talking about how society has changed to allow student athletes to get away with this nonsense and how Mr. Neace is such a great man for doing what he did.

Obviously, Mr. Nease is a good teacher.

He also is a teacher who broke the rules.

It does not matter how long he had his “Own” policy. The fact is it went against the BOE’s guidlines, therefore, he was wrong.

The overwhelming sentiment here is the hate or dislike for student athletes.

If people of Dacula and Gwinnett feel that student athletes are getting the pampered treatment then they should bring the facts to the board and ask for change.

This teachers rogue policy has nothing to do with the student athlete issue.

Some say this teacher is making students ready for the real world. Is the example..

Do whatever you want. Smoke pot,inhale meth and sniff coke. If its your rule then its fine. Who cares as long as no one says anything its great!

The student that fell asleep could have been given detention, suspension or forced to miss a game. He should not have received a zero for handing in a paper that he aced.

I also beleive if the teacher had not been so pigheaded he would be working today.

Greg

By Todd

May 6, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

I for one would like to commend Mr. Neace for having the courage to both take the action he did and to stand behind that action when challenged. This man has conducted himself in a manner befitting a true educator and the crime lies not in his failure to alter the grade, but in depriving young students of his presence in the classroom.

I have worked for the University System for a number of years and I have personally witnessed a decline in both the level of preparedness and self discipline exhibited by new students year over year. The problem does not lie solely with the students; it begins at home and has gradually filtered into the academic community that is supposed to challenge our young people, not pamper them.

I graduated from Cobb County schools in 1993, arguably not the dark ages. My first impression after enrolling in college was that High School simply did not prepare me for life as a college student. I still feel that I received an excellent secondary education and I was an honors student, but the fact remains that our school systems are moving in the wrong direction.

I have certainly never been a model student and I most definitely had to swallow my share of penalties, whether it be for turning assignments in late or incomplete, missing or being late to class, or for being disruptive. In all cases, the penalties were reflected in my grade. Our teachers volunteer to educate our children and deserve respect. Sleeping in class is disrespectful to the teacher, the classmates, and to the educational system. It should not matter who you are, whether you are an athlete or honor student, being disrespectful should carry a penalty.

Perhaps Mr. Neace’s classroom policy did not comply with board policy. Where was the oversight of this policy for the last 10 years? Where was the administration the other times students were penalized. If Mr. Neace is to be penalized, so should the administration. After all, the captain must go down with the ship.

Obviously, this student and/or his/her parents are not willing to accept that actions have consequences. Many of us may argue that there are other penalties, such as detention or suspension; both are simply a joke - quite nearly a vacation for the student. However, I know that when I brought a poor grade home, I had to explain why. I also know that if I explained that I had slept in class, disrupted class, or was otherwise disrespectful, I would have received a far worse punishment.

Perhaps the real question is whether the school board’s policy should be changed. Educators need to be given freedom to conduct their classes as they see fit, withing reasonable limits. Penalizing students by deducting points from grades is very reasonable and should normally result in a correction in behavior. We simply can not continue tying our teachers hands and in-turn point the proverbial finger back at them when our children find themselves undereducated and unprepared for life beyond high school.

Obviously the above is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect any views other than my own. However, it is absolutely abhorring that this dedicated educator of 23 years has been dismissed for such a petty reason.

By Jill Dunaway Hart

May 6, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe they fired Doc Nease…I graduated from Dacula High in 88, and he was one of the best teachers I ever had. I feel sorry for the students that are not going to have the chance to learn from a great teacher.

By Ed

May 6, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Shame on you Doc!! How dare you try to instill some discipline and accountablity in our public school system. This is Gwinnett County for God sakes. Our students never do anything wrong.

By Mike

May 6, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

Discipline the kid for falling asleep? Yes. Do it by lowering his grade? NO! Grades should measure knowledge, and should not reflect sleepiness, tardiness, or sassiness. The kid should receive detention, an extra assignement, clap erasers, etc., something more appropriate. If he fell asleep, maybe the teacher is boring.

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

As a parent of a Dacula High School student, we need to do something to show we are not going to let this go. A protest against Donnie Nutt at the high school would let him know how we feel.

By Cathy

May 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Come on folks, it isn’t even a case of giving a 0 for discipline purposes. If he was asleep when work was assigned in class and he didn’t do the work then he got a zero for that part of the assignment. We all know this is a football issue and the coaches should be ashamed of themseleves for letting a student get so far behind in a class that 1 bad grade could put him in jeopardy.

By Ashley

May 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

I find it interesting that most students, parents, and other people in the Dacula district as well as around the county support Doc Neace. And yet the people we elected to vote for us and settle disputes for us voted against what we want. I went to Dacula High and had Doc Neace for Physics. I always paid attention so I wouldn’t get points taken away. To the the parent that feels his son deserves the perfect grade on his assignment, are you going to fight the college or university he goes to every time he gets treated unfairly? Because let me tell you, life is unfair and your parents can’t fight all your battles. To the Gwinnett County Board of Education, issues like this is why my children will never step foot in one of your schools. I guess this also is one step closer to explaining why Georgia is 49th in the nation as far as education goes. You don’t want to teach our kids responsibility and and you want to take it away from the teachers. Carol Boyce is the only smart one on the board.

By Jim

May 6, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

This is a sad commentary on education in America, when a teacher who stands for discipline—in the era of 5 yr olds throwing tantrums— is fired for disciplining a student! You say it is improper to use grades in a punitive manner. Try getting fired for not changing a grade for a punitive measure. The loss of a grade in order to learn an important life lesson—responsibility— pales in comparison. What lesson are “Doc” Nease and other teachers to learn from his firing? If you discipline your students you risk losing your livelihood! Reinstate “Doc”!
Fire the school board!

By MJ

May 6, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

Are you serious? Clap erasers? Parents would get up in arms about that, too! It all comes down to holding students accountable for their actions. You have to make the students care. Some students love to sit in detention. As for the extra assignment - why do it? If he gets a zero, wouldn’t that be considered discipline since it was assigned for discipline? Really.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

The student earned a perfect grade on an assignment, the teacher gave him half the credit as punishment..citing that it was his own personal policy. I for one would like to know more of the circumstances around this incident. Did the student have a habit of sleeping in “Doc’s” class? Did “Doc” ask if the student was sick? Was “Doc” lecturing or just writing up an assignment. Everyone seems to think the teacher is a saint in this incident, but I remember quite a few egotistical teachers when I was in high school…many of them had a deep resentment for student athletes. Maybe his policy was never challenged before because those students were just crappy students anyway..after all, an “F” is an “F”..but changing an “A” to a “F” or even a “C” is a big leap…I for one would have challenged that. I’ve known a lot of teachers, with different levels of popularity, that come to think of their classes as their little kingdoms. Like someone else said before, I think there is more going on here than just what is printed. He’ll probably be reinstated anyway.

By brittney

May 6, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

Clay- would you mind telling me what was incorrect about my posting? No I am no longer in school. I have been through college and am now a respected Chemist. Please tell me what you found incorrect… and why you have to point me out for speaking my opinion. The topic is not me it is Dacula HS.

By B

May 6, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

The facts: If a student sleeps in class during a physics lab, it is safe to assume that the student copied/cheated on that assignment in order to complete it perfectly. The student is lucky that he wasn’t given a zero and accused of cheating.

A football player is expected to be a leader in a school and should be taught character in addition to the game of football. Football players are held to higher expectations than many other students because of the position they hold in the school.

The Cheeks are over influential in the football program

By Casey Bowman

May 6, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

It seems to me that while Mr. Neace did violate a school board policy, it is the policy itself which is in error. People wonder why the U.S. consistently falls behind other nations in test scores, etc… Well the answer is that we don’t hold students responsible for poor performance in school anymore. We’ve become too worried that students can’t handle failure. It seems to me that the best way to avoid failure is hard work, dedication, and focus. Instead we give students an excuse to fail because we’ve set such amazingly low standards for performance. Hopefully this situation will bring the problem out in the open people will realize that we must change some of our policies if we expect students to perform well. Expect more out of students! Many will surprise you.

By Georgia

May 6, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Just like when I was in school. Athletes were always treated as untouchable. Two sets of Rules, one for the athletes one for the rest of the school. SHAME on the board for condoning this behavior

By Concerned Parent II

May 6, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

I agree with Concerned Parent above. Most employees have rules they must follow. If they don’t like those rules, they have the option of quitting or attempting to go through the appropriate channels to get those rules changed. Most employees do not have the option of improvising and implementing their own rules in the workplace. Since Gwinnett has policies in place to address disciplining students who sleep in school, then Neace should have followed those policies, regardless of whether the student was a jock or a valedictorian. Apparently, he has been flagrantly disregarding Gwinnett policy for at least 10 years. I fault school administrators, as well as Neace, for allowing this to occur for so long. Should Neace have been fired? Probably not, but his punishment should have been severe.

By Amy

May 6, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

As as teacher in another metro county, I fully support Mr. Neace. We have too many students being given grades they do not deserve simply because they play a sport. We have to hold these students responsible for their actions and punish them when appropriate. Otherwise, how do we expect them to be able to function in the real world once they leave the protected environment of high school?

By M Smith

May 6, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Once again, the stigma of doing what you are paid for raises its ugly head and likewise, once again, this same stigma shows the real intention, not only of this so-called school board, but of the majority in this nation… Education has become nothing much more than a baby sitting service.. Teachers are not viewed as educators, but merely as “sitters” and in many cases, tools of government… It is NOT their job to educate, rather to make sure students receive the full measure of propangda as spewed forth from the powers on high.

I wonder what message this sends to kids today… Do they honestly believe they can enter into the work force and then sleep at their desks..?

No wonder this nation has fallen from the level of education excellence to that of education stupidity…

By GS

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

What happened to the other 500 comments on here that supported the teacher?

Sounds like the AJC is bending over backwards for Gwinnett County again.

By Cliff

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

Why not let the other students decide on the sleeping students fate? Probably a better system than the one in place.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

to B:

“safe to assume” is not a “Fact”.

By Karen

May 6, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

So when my children are sick I should send them to school and let them sleep there until well again…it won’t effect their grades.

By Anonymous

May 6, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

When I was in school, part of conduct was part of your overall grade. If this guy couldn’t behave himself in calss, regardless of whether he was an athelete, then he deserves a lower grade. It’s time we stop pampering these kids and teach them some hard lessons.

By Gee

May 6, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

Brittney - you kneed to lern to spel more bettur.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

to Brian: How else could the student get the data????? If is VERY safe to assume that he copied the data for the lab from another student. Get a life, Brian!

By Ralph

May 6, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

Gwinett continues its tradition of persecuting any teacher who will stand up to its draconian regime. First, the test whistle blower and now a highly regarded science teacher. Can anyone wonder why we have a teaching shortage?

By Parent

May 6, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

Last year at Dacula High School, another Physics Teacher had less than 5 of his Advanced Placement students out of about 60 PASS the Advanced Placement test, yet there was no discipline - at least none that we as parents heard about. Now a teacher is being disciplined for handing out zero’s if a child SLEEPS in his class? I understand that participating in class earns a grade - as it does in many other classes. Take PE for example; if a student doesn’t dress out, he/she gets a zero. With a course as tough as Physics, doesn’t it make sense that being COHERENT is essential to learing the material?! To call giving a zero for sleeping a ‘disciplinary measure’ is ridiculous. What’s the old saying… ‘if you snooze you lose’? The school board was way off on this one, as was the principal. We need more teachers like Doc Neese who will prepare our students for the real world. I encourage others to speak out about this travesty.

By tc

May 6, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

As the late Lewis Grizzard said, “The problem in Georgia is that we have too many “educators” and not enough teachers. This state needs more people like Mr. Neace and fewer like Mr. Nutt and the superintendent.

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

TO GEE Thank you for your Critism. How thoughtful that we are talking about Dacula HS and you feel the need to comment on spelling. Point out what is so wrong with my posting. God bless.

By Georgia

May 6, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

In response to the Michael Moore doing a documentary, he would distort the truth, splice and dice until it became a film of fiction.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I was a student athlete in high school and I once fell asleep in a spanish class…once..it was at 7:30 am on that day and I could not keep my eyes open. I’m sure it pissed the teacher off…although she never said anything. I earned a “B” in that class (I still remember) and I went on to a BS and MS degree later in life. So I would stil like to know if this was an isolated incident or a continuing problem for this student athlete? By the way, to you people lamenting about falling asleep in college…get real…the professor would either throw the student out of class, or not care, only seeing the student as one more social security number.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I want to attempt to summarize this tragic event:

1. Yes, the teacher’s policy was against the board’s.
2. Yes, the student slept through a lab.
3. Yes, the student turned in a report. However, where did the student get the data to write the report? If the student did not do the lab, where did the info. come from?

Had I been Doc, I would have said, “Fine. The student does not get a grade of 50 for sleeping, but rather the student gets a 0 for copying.” In my school system there is the Student Honor Code that is much more harsh when addressing copying.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

What is very frightening are the posts from other teachers that say they support Mr. Neace and his policy.

Teachers should be willing to admit he broke the rules first, and then share their frustrations.

Teachers in Georgia then need to take these frustrations and present these issues to the Board of Education. If that doesn’t work then go to the State Officials.

Teachers set examples. You can not teach kids that you can make you on rules at will.

In society we have rules.

Those that break rules are called criminals.

Greg

By Jess

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

As someone who went to Dacula I must say that this whole incident isn’t surprising. It happens more than people think. Only this time, it is at the expense of someone’s job. All in all, this situation is very sad. I think that Doc Neace is a wonderful teacher. It’s disheartening that football is more important than a good educator. People have different opinions about if it matters that the student was a football player. Believe me, it does. If the student had not been an athlete, the problem would have been non-existent. Didn’t you know that football players need to get a good GPA so they’ll get accepted into whatever school they are going to sign with? I do not think that the school board has made the right decision. Not only have they fired a good teacher, but they are just reiterating the notion that football is Gwinnett’s number one priority. It’s ridiculous that sports are held at a higher precedent than education. The education of the students should be the most important thing. I understand that he did not adhere to the policies. I think that he should get in trouble for that, but firing the man, that’s a little too steep of a penalty. Maybe they should look at changing the policies. All through high school you hear that it is supposed to prepare you for college. It doesn’t. In college, you are responsible for your own grades. Mom or dad can’t help you out and neither can the Dean. Student athletes have a certain grade point average the have to keep, and if their grades are dropping the get tutoring. The coaches do not help them out. Professors do deduct points from your final grade if you sleep in class, are late or absent from class. In most colleges, education is the priority, not sports and I think that’s what the problem is here in Gwinnett. The priorities need to be set straight.

By JD

May 6, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Congratulations Dacula HS.

You deserve whatever you get from now on.

By Michael

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Ahhhhhhhhhhh… the incredible, wonderful, stellar Gwinnett County Public School System at its best. The school board said it all in their vote…”We in Gwinnett County have a policy ladies and gentlemen…we will FIRE ALL of the quality teachers and only KEEP the ones who will do everything we say. GOOOOOOOOO Gwinnett Athletics!!! What a JOKE Gwinnett County!!

By Lynn

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Firing this teacher sets a bad example for students who will now think it’s OK to sleep in class. Attendance and participation are necessary for learning, how can you learn if you’re asleep. It’s common practice in college for professors to grade on participation. Will we hear about this kid again when he’s sleeping in college and demanding full credit there? Would his football coach accept him sleeping on the bench?

By Rosalind

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Teachers need to be supported in the classrooms. They deal with children who already feel like they can just run over them and get away with whatever…because they can just tell somebody on them. It’s his classroom. Allow him to run it. Sleeping is something that should be done at home. What’s wrong with her grade being affected because she was sleeping in class? I’m thinking (now I could be wrong because I wasn’t actually there), but I’m thinking, she couldn’t have been getting much work done while she slept. As long as teachers aren’t out of control and mistreating the children, let the do the job they were hired to do. Teach our children!

By Joe D

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I consider Mr. Neace a hero. The kids who are being coddled by this stupid school board policy will eventually lose, after they’ve all flunked out of the University of Georgia in their new BMW’s, because, like, uh-oh, they actually expect us to be able to conjugate verbs, or, like, know the periodic table. Duh. What a typical Suburban Atlanta me - mine - now - I deserve to have it all without working for it - story. Kinda reminds me of a certain President we’ve got going for us….

By DC

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I could be more supportive of the school board if their decision was completely objective. However, after a decade of enforcing this policy, this teacher was finally “caught” simply because an athlete was involved. I’m keenly disappointed in the subjective enforcement of what is frankly a typically politically correct policy in the first place. High school students need to be prepared for the real world, not protected from the consequences of their own choices. Sleep through class? Watch your pay get cut if you sleep on the job.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Dear Greg: Is your real name Donnie, Kevin or Barry?