Get Schooled

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

I do not know if I would have went to such extremes as to fire “Doc” Some other action could have been taken. If the student had a good grade and the student deserved the grade then Doc should not have cut it in half due to sleeping. That is what they have detention for. When you do something that is not of the teacher’s standards you usually get detention or something. I have never heard of a teacher cutting a grade in half because the student did something unsatisfactory. The Doc was innapropriate for doing such but the school district was innapropriate for firing him….they should have taken other actions…give him leave for a month or 2..watch his teaching moves ever so closely now…something…but he could have a family that depends on his income for bills and food. Who knows he could have been a great teacher outside of his rediculous punishment to this student.

By MG

May 6, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Wow, congrats to the principal and Gwinnett Cty school board for underscoring for the rest of the world what takes top priority in the school system. Believe it or not, Dacula HS, the point of school is to LEARN, not to have a good football team. And to think this is supposed to be one of the better school systems in Georgia!?

Education will never improve in this state until it becomes a priority for parents and school systems. We should all be thanking “Doc” for exposing the hyprocrisy in the Gwinnett Cty school system. More power to the parents and students who are supporting him, and recognize this for what it is.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

To the writer of this column - did the school board “ask” you to remove all of those replies all of a sudden? How coinkydink

By Catrina

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

You wonder why Georgia has such low ratings with our Education System. You should be ashamed of yourself for firing such a well qualified teacher because you can’t say that for most of our teachers. We have very few that are teaching for the love of teaching. He did exactly what he needed to do! What are we telling our children about getting an education. If you don’t do the work, guess what you can still get an “A” or pass the class. I have lived in Gwinnett all of my life the school system sucked back then and it looks like it has not changed.
Thank goodness for Private Schools because that is where my son will be attending.

By Jerry

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Exactly what is considered disciplinary? If an assignment is marked down for being late, is that disciplinary? I’m also bothered by the fact that Doc’s policy went unquestioned for 10 years. This may be a case of either an overzealous administrator or overly influential parent.

By Clay

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

Sounds like Brittney needs to either go back to school to learn correct grammar or attend summer school to bone up on her deficiencies if she is still in school.

By Lisa

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

This teacher is justified in his actions. He is trying to teach a class, his job, while the student is supposed to listen and learn, his job. If you mess up on a job, you pay the price. The student should have paid the price. All that has been gained is that as an athlete, you can break the rules and not get punished. Besides, the teacher was trying to educate the student so that, when and if the athlete is ever interviewed ther woun’t be another “un well ya know” and ” uh huh, well uh…” interview. He might actually learn something. I say the teacher should stay!!!

By Dot Richard

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

I would like to know when the School Board instituted the rule. Less than 5 years ago when my last child (thank God) was in the infamous Gwinnett Public Schools your behavious in class certainly did effect your daily grades and I support that. No wonder teachers can’t control class rooms. And yes my child did get reduced grades and I supported the teacher totally. Oh, I forgot Gwinnett does not teach to learn they teach “To Test”. I would like to know the one board member that voted no. Gwinnett County Public Schools are a joke and when the silent majority finally sits up and takes notice (if ever) they will realize this and demand changes. Their Gestapo tactics with their teachers and also oupspoken parents or anyone that disagrees with them are outrageous.

Hope the teacher wins and sues (yes I know I’ll be the one paying) and wins.

By JG

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

Sleeping in class??? Why are we even talking about this? What kind of parents and administrators would NOT support the teacher in this case? This is a sad commentary….

By Robert

May 6, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Just another reason why Georgia has GOT to get a strong, real, teacher’s union.

Please don’t come back with our current organization, PAGE. PAGE is nothing and readily admits that it is no union. Without a real teacher’s union, good teachers doing the right thing can be pushed around just as is the case with Neace.

By MariettaMom

May 6, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Somebody please call Michael Moore and beg him to make his next documentary about football in the south!

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately, I am not at all surprised they fired of Doc. I anticipated that the Board would take this stance, thinking that if they didn’t, it would completely undermine their and Principal Nutt’s authority. With so much publicity surrounding this issue, they probably felt that they had no choice. It was either fire Doc or they would have to eventually let Principal Nutt go.

What really bothers me are the many serious allegations against Principal Nutt that I’ve been reading in these blogs. If they are true, then there is a very incompetent principal heading up a very large educational facility in Duluth, and if he is that incompetent, why hasn’t a strong, concerted effort to remove him been started? If I was a parent of children in or about to enter DHS, I think I’d be working on that one.

By Seaborn

May 6, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

This isn’t about of a failing student begging for a better grade. From what I read, this student actually earned a good grade, so I don’t agree with the teacher. If they want to discipline the student, there are other ways to do it. Did anyone suggest that the student be barred from athletic activities for a specified time, or that his sleeping would go on his permanant record? If the school policy says you can’t lower grades as a disciplinary measure then the teachers are obligated to follow that. The student’s athletic status has nothing to do with it. The teacher was given a chance to comply, he didn’t, so he deserved to get canned.

By Erin

May 6, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

No wonder it’s so difficult to attract and maintain quality teachers when school boards are firing exceptional teachers for refusing to change grades for student athletes. And SHAME on the parents who brought this case to the principal. Why would any parent demand their student be allowed to sleep in class? I would be humiliated to let anyone know that I had such poor parenting skills to raise a child who doesn’t accept the consequences of their actions. If the syllabus says grades are lowered for sleeping in class, what sort of student would go home and complain to their parents, and what sort of parents would complain to a principal about their child’s sleeping in class affecting their grade? How I would love to be the professor at this student’s college of choice that fails him for sleeping in class. Doc, you make me proud to be a teacher. Good for you for standing up for what is right. Finally, someone with some integrity!

By edge770

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

This is just another example of a long list of incidents where Gwinnett has some totally inept school administrators and school board members who are philosophically out of touch. Whether it be presenting plays that tell parents not to spank kids, or not allow Neal Boortz to appear on Campus, refusing to answer legitimate issues of student welfare. It’s obvious that they need to clean house and bring “Doc” back. If this tactic was tried at other local school systems, they would promote and give “Doc” a raise. It’s obvious J. Alvin and the frilly types need to be removed from their positions post haste. If I was a parent in Gwinnett the kid would have been pulled out a LONG time ago.

By JS

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

A role model cuts a “role models” grade for sleeping in class! How could he do such a thing to a poor athlete? He has a future, a long life as a STAR. Who says the jocks don’t get a break? Maybe the school board should investigate other teachers and find out if this student and others may be getting more breaks. I mean I knoe precious needs his sleep but come on. Maybe his parents should support this teacher and use it as a learning tool for the future. Oh I forgot he is an athlete he will dictate what he does and doesn’t do.

By Margaret

May 6, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

I’m very disappointed and distrubed by the Gwinnett County Board of Education. It is a sad day that our educators have no rights. Where are we heading?

I hope the football player is happy with his “unearned” grade. Wonder would happen if I spent during my job?

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

The School Board needs to change it’s policy. In college, if you skip too many classes, many teachers will deduct points from your overall grade. How is Neace’s policy any different? In the work force, you can’t sleep on the job, why should you be allowed to sleep in class? If one of the purposes of high school is to prepare our children for the rest of their lives, coddling them won’t do them any favors. Instead of firing Neace, the School Board needs to explain why teachers can’t use grades as discipline? What is the logic behind that policy?

By mike fitzgerald

May 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

What a travesty. But then again, this action against the teacher is just a sign of our society’s failure to hold people, such as this particular student, responsible for their actions. It is obvious the school board has the “puppet” principal, who appears to be solely interested in protecting his backside, in their pocket. I long for those days when I was in school back in the 50s/60s. You learned, you were respectful of your teachers; teachers didn’t run scared from the school board; the school board was an advisory organization that supported the superintendant, principal and teachers; the school board respected the superintendant, principal and teachers and understood the job they were there to do. Society has changed and this has impacted our educational institutions in an adverse way. This instance is just one more example of what is wrong today with our education system.

mike fitzgerald normal, il

By 4mer tchr

May 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

As a former teacher with Atlanta City schools, I can say that disciplining a teacher for refusing to change a grade isn’t an anomaly. At J.C.Young Middle School, our Principal changed ALL failing grades, regardless of documentation. I’m just wondering how Mr. Neace had the option to refuse.

By Swan

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

For those jumping on the “Larry Neace should have followed the board’s policy” bandwagon, my question still remains unanswered. If Neace’s classroom policies were so much at odds with the board, why has nothing been said or done for the last 10 years? Why is this happening now?

My sympathy goes to the students of Dacula High School (minus one). They’re the ones truly losing out in this situation. It looks like football trophies matter more at DHS than education.

By Rand

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

I think that Doc should be reinstated. To grade students on classroom participation is great. If you sleep or waste time you should be penalized. I have a bigger issue that Doc was fired for a policy that has been in place for 10 years. The students were well aware of his policy and seemed to fully support it. My main issue is now with the Dacula HS administration. Why did they not enforce the school board policy? Isn’t that part of their job? Shouldn’t they be held to the same accountablity standards as the teacher. I say if you fire the Doc, you should also fire the administration that also broke the policy.

By Tom Boyette

May 6, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Georgia’s education system would benefit greatly by having 2,000+ educators like Doc. Doc lives up to his high standards in ethics and accountability. He expects no less from his students. I hope Doc’s job is restored at Dacula for the sake of the students. If not, Dacula’s lost will certainly be another school’s gain.

Hang in there Doc.

By Zeek

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

What a shame…the Georgia school system is so broken that the administrators refuse to even see the problems.
Students sleeping in class and the preferential treatment given to atheletes is at least part of the problem with the Georgia school system and the low SAT scores. If you want half-hearted attempts by students and half-educated kids with inflated grades trying to succeed in college, support sleeping in class. I actually interviewed an 18 year old the other day for a minimum wage, entry level job who showed up with an “I dunno” attitude, his pants down with his boxers showing and an eyebrow ring in his forehead. His mother called back a couple of days ago to ask why he didn’t get a call back on the job…go figure.

By Maria Miller

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

I don’t even live in Georgia and after reading this article and the one about cockfights, I believe the “good ole system” of doing things is alive and well in Georgia. The very idea of firing a teacher because he has expectations of a FOOTBALL player! That could like keep them from winning a championship. I am behind the teacher 100% and think the rest of the state needs to grow up a lot.

By Tom Barksdale

May 6, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this

Neace’s firing is justified only if the Board was implementing a standing, enforced policy on not using grades to impose discipline. The rule itself seems reasonable, and if it’s been enforced in the past, any teacher violating it should be fired.

The only question in this case is whether the Board is practicing discrimination and enforces the rule only when a football player is involved. Even then, Neace probably would have to be fired, but voters should then fire the Board at the next election. Or ask for its recall.

By Amber Hall

May 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

I had Doc Neace for 3 years while attending Dacula High. He was definitely one of the best teachers I’ve ever had. I firmly believe that whatever grade Doc Neace decided to give the student was appropriate. He treats his students fairly, and you get the grade you deserve.

By CM

May 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

On behalf of teachers everywhere, a great shout out of support to Mr. Neace!!!

By Adam

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I cannot believe this! This kid will never be ready for the real world. He probably thinks he does not need school because he is going to be a professional football player. Where I went to college, I had professors that would deduct points off your final grade for every class you missed and showed up late for! I have only been out of college for a couple of years and I remember high school very well and if you slept or wasted class time you better believe you suffer the consequences! I hope the school system suffers from this ruling.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I think there is a VERY fine line with grading students. The reality is…if students aren’t DOING WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, then their “participation grade” is effected and SHOULD BE EFFECTED! I don’t think this has anything to do with discipline…it has to do with DOING WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT! And in this case, the student should be completing homework at home (and sleeping!) and participating in class!

Are we enabling a generation of young people to have no work ethic and go through job after job? or are we as teachers, allowing students to practice being an adult, in an attempt to create successful, competent adults?

By tara

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I went to school at Dacula High in 1994 of all the teachers I remember Doc was the most upfront and honest! Doc was there to make sure we learned. The school board was wrong for letting him go! Not many teachers care to make a difference in students lives, Doc did. Doc will be missed. The principle was wrong. I hope the other teachers get tired of the principles bulling as well. Then maybe the board of education will see what they have allowed to be in control of their school.

By Jessalyn Anglin

May 6, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this

This is yet another reason why I dislike Gwinnett County schools.

By Lance D

May 6, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this

Apparently it isn’t embarrasing enough for this state to have the worst high school graduation rate in the nation. Now you have principals like Donnie Nutt at Dacula and superintendent of Gwinnett Schools J.Alvin Wilbanks firing the most experienced science teacher at a high school that is known to have its share of discipline and academic problems, just so a star football player and his overzealous parents can have their way. Gwinnett can’t find enough good teachers to work in the system, can’t keep some of the ones they have now, but that apparently is not the primary concern of Principal Nutt or Superintendent Wilbanks. No, apparenty the eligibility of star athletes takes precedence over the retention of an experienced and by all accounts well-like physics teacher. We certaintly can’t let something like discipline in the classroom get in the way of winning football games. Explains why Principal Nutt hires football coaches to teach algebra. It is a shame that the people we entrust to teach our kids about the world have decided it is better to kowtow to a star athlete and his father who is trying to live vicariously through his son’s exploits, rather than keep an experienced teacher employed so that many generations of kids that pass through that school come out smarter than when they started. Dacula parents: if you’re more concerned about your children’s education than you are about the success of the football team, then it should be your mission to get Principal Nutt and/or Alvin Wilbanks removed in favor of someone who will be dedicated to education. After all, if one parent can get a outstanding teacher fired, imagine what a whole group of parents can get done. And the AJC needs to correct something: Mr. Neis was on 680 The Fan this morning, and he stated the assignment given was due the same day, not an overnight one. That’s an important distincion in this sad case.

By Mike

May 6, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Only in Georgia! It is sad to see the educational system undermined by such issues.

When we’re not making the state’s schools look like havens for religious zealots, we lovingly support students who make the state’s educational system seem like a primetime reality show. If I were the parent of that athlete, I’d make sure I raise a stink with my child about his sleeping in class, not the teacher. Nevertheless, I always fail to remember that in these days schools are for babysitting and not learning.

Perhaps the student should get his grade after all. Maybe he’ll learn his lesson as he tries to enter the real world. And with that I don’t mean UGA.

—Mike

By Andrew Phillips

May 6, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

This is typical Gwinnett County school system, they will go after this teacher with both barrels and try to get him banned for life while protecting the football player. The teacher probably already recevied a phone call from the GWSD police about his coming arrest. Gwinnet County schools rule by fear.

By Susan Helber

May 6, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

My father lost a teaching job years ago in the 1950’s in rural Missouri. The school board wanted to hire a coach and decided to sacrifice the favorite and only science teacher in order to get the money. Well, Dad went on to become a well loved and respected teacher in a well known private school and spent a number of years there surrounded by intelligent professors and townspeople. Years later, after a newspaper article on him, the ignorant men who fired him, realized their mistake and one attempted to apologize. Meanwhile the little town had gone from bad to worse. Needless to say - Dad was not impressed by the apology. I was thankful we got out of there when we did! Actions such as this against “Doc” Nease are examples of ways to erode our already “bottom of the totem pole” status in terms of education and how the rest of the nation views Georgia. Watch out! Stupid people on school boards and in other places of power will erode your cultural environment - kids won’t get exposed to the type of education they need to reach their full potential, to get decent jobs and function well with others in society.

By Carol

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

Seaborn - you’re kidding, right? The student’s “permanent record?” That really exists?

By Mike Layman

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

Having 4 children of my own in school, I do not agree with the teacher using grades to punish a student. If the student has completed the work and made the grade, they should get the grade. BUT, I do believe that the student who falls asleep in class, or has other disruptive behavior should be punished. At the very least, as a parent, I would expect a notice from the school concerning the issue and I would expect detention and/or addition class work for my children. Also, I do not agree with the School Board releasing the teacher. I am sure that some alternate solution could be worked out. If the Board has allowed the teacher to instill punishment in this manner for a number of years, it should not be grounds for dismissal now.

By Chris

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

I’m the son of a retired public school teacher. I’ve grown up watching what teachers have to deal with. Having said that, it appears that the firing has more to do with this one teacher acting like he’s bigger than the system and above the rules. I get the impression that there is more to this than the simple reduction of a grade for an athlete who was asleep.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

The school board has exercised their authority to fire Mr. Neace. If the good citizens of Gwinett do not approve of the way the board handled this situation, they can exercise their authority to fire the school board - at the next election.

By Gilda Little

May 6, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this

This sad incident speaks volumnes for the way we value discipline in our schools. A 23 year veteran teacher must be valued above a student athelete who is falling asleep in his class! Gwinnett County schools can ill afford to fire such a teacher who stood up for his principles, I say reinstate this teacher immediately!! And, I might add, get rid of the School Board that fired him.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

So I wonder if this kid was in the band if everyone would be trying to stereotype band students? This is a sad situation for the Doc’s students, but has nothing to do with the fact this kid was a football player. The child in question is an A/B student and cutting this one grade would have no effect on his ability to play football. This is about an employee (Doc Neace) openly and boldly breaking school policy and being insubordinate to his boss (The Principal). Not sure about where you work, but if I refused to follow rules or openly argued with my boss I would be fired. Why should Doc Neace be treated any different? Disagree with the school board policy, but don’t let the media coverage allow you to think this is a football vs education situation. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

By MJ

May 6, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

The lone school board member who voted against Doc’s termination was Carol Boyce. Her children all attended Dacula High School. Of the five who voted, the one who knows the teacher best voted in favor of him. The others went on word of the administrators who seem to have a bone to pick with this teacher.

By N Cahill

May 6, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

The school board really messed up on this one. “Doc” has shown that he cares about these students and their future, not just passing a student along because he/she is an athlete or has some other connection. I applaud him for standing up for what he feels is right. I hope the school board will do the same and reconsider undoing the wrong they have done this man and his students.

By Teacher

May 6, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

It’s obvious we don’t know all the circumstances, but we should support any teacher who is willing to take such a stand. It’s obvious a 20+ year veteran teacher facing the loss of retirement benefits wouldn’t take such a stand unless it was the right thing to do. Even if not completely right, should he be fired? It’s probably just an administrator who had it out for him found an excuse to get rid of him. I feel bad for the kids that have to lose a great teacher for the next few weeks before exams! Great move administrators! It’s just sad. This is exactly why I quit teaching in public school and went to private school. Sure, for those of you who complain about using grades as punishment without even knowing what really went on, there is detention and whatnot at schools, but that is useless in most public schools. Where I used to work, any detention would be skipped with absolutely no consequences. Where I went to school, you would be suspended for 5 days with no grades on the first occasion of skipping detention, and on the second occasion expelled. And that was a public school. While in detention students polished the brass on the hallway floors with toothbrushes. And parents never questioned teachers and fully supported the system. And as a result teachers had the time and passion to care about the students’ education, and most became productive members of society as a result. Teachers are now burnt out not from teaching but from dealing with all the baggage of being totally disrespected by students, parents, and administrators. I’ve always said teaching in public school is like being thrown into the deep end of a pool with your hands cuffed behind your back. I’m happy, in a way, for Doc because he doesn’t have to deal with it anymore! Some good private or public school will sign him on in a heartbeat if he doesn’t retire.

By Hurray4Doc

May 6, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

And we wonder what is wrong with our youth today. What happened to personal responsibility? The school system and his parents have taught this young man an invaluable lesson - that he’s not responsible and he doesn’t have to play by the rules. We need more teachers like “Doc”. Thank you “Doc” for not compromising your values and principles.

By Dreez

May 6, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

This is of no surprise to me. If a son or daughter plays sports and grades affect their ability to play, it must be the teachers fault, and it seems the Gwinnett BoE has stepped right into the cow patty in the rush to support that system by firing an obviously talented teacher. …..hmm, wonder what they would have done if he was a coach???

By Jules in Decatur

May 6, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jerry, below. And what, exactly, is wrong with using interim grades as a disciplinary tool? We see how poorly detention works!

If Mr. neace openly practised the policy of reducing grades for students who slept in class for ten years, without issue, do ya THINK the administrators were influenced to discipline Neace because the student was a school athelete? Gee, I wonder…

The administrators who fired Meace should be demoted, and Meace should be reinstated and recieve a public apology.

By Cathy

May 6, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Well another case of a school board in the state of Georgia making a decision that makes no sense when it comes to education. Make’s you wonder where board members got their education. Since the school board seems to take pleasure in teaching our children it’s o.k. to goof off in school, maybe when our children can’t go to college or find a job because of lack of motivation or ambition we can send them to the board members home to live out their lives.

By Mark Fuller

May 6, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

I admire Mr. Neace for not tolerating behavior like this in his class. It’s amazing how a teacher gives 23 years of service to this school and then the school board decides to fire him because he doesn’t allow a student to sleep in his class and disrespect him as a teacher. If my one of my daughters got her grade lowered because she was sleeping in class I would tell her she got just what she deserved. Stay awake next time. But once again, what we have here is parents who defend their children when their WRONG. The folks that should be fired in this situation are those on that school board who voted to fire Mr. Neace. To the school board (support the teacher and get your tail out from between your legs).

By Kelly

May 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

I will say again what I’ve been saying for years… Its time to oust the school board and start again. The gwinnett county school board has obviously forgotten why they are in office to begin with. Getting rid of Wilbanks is a must. Remember this incident next time you go to the polls!

By Kathy

May 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

I work in a high school in the Clayton County school system. Let me tell you how much of a precedence athletics has over academics. I have been asked to change records so that students can compete in athletic events many times. This is WRONG! People wonder why test scores are so low in the state of Georgia..it is because the state of Georgia places academics at the very bottom of the barrel of importance. Parents know that in Clayton County all they have to do is “get loud” and they get what they want. It does NO good to tell parents what the rules or laws are when the administration goes right ahead and allows the parents to get their way. It completely discredits anything the teachers, staff, etc have said or done. What does this teach the kids? It teaches them that when they break the rules they can get away with anything…no accountability! And the state wonders why they have a shortage of teachers…Go figure! I hope that Dr. Neace sues and wins big…I applaud his ethics!

By Peter

May 6, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this

Let’s all be thankful Gwinnett County isn’t any larger than it is, or more of us would be subjected to the idiocy of Gwinnett County administrators whether it is the school board, or the any of the other notorious government boards in that county.

By Willie A. Robinson

May 6, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

 "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND"

If a student is allowed to sleep in any class, how can this student become prepared to pass various nation wide academic tests to enter or not enter colleges and universities?

By Jen

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I think the teacher did the right thing. However, GCS is not the only system with senseless rules. In another metro school system, we are required to allow students to make up work REGARDLESS of the reason for the absence. This means, if a student skips a class, the teacher has to allow the student to make the work up. Even if this includes skipping a class to avoid a test. I actually had this happen to me this year and there was nothing I could do. I gave the student detention and the “poor child” could not serve it because her mother could not drop her off early or pick her up late after school. When I wrote a referral for her missing detention, I was told since transportation was a problem I had to arrange another punishment. Basically, I was punished because the child could not be bothered to come to class. The child didn’t care, her mother likes to come to the school, make a scene and have the administration bend to her will. These problems are prevelant across the metro area. I would love to see if there are other examples of rules implemented in schools that make no sense.

By Anita Gagel

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

The policy needs changed. What the teacher did was perfectly acceptable.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I want to encourage each of you to NOT LET THIS STOP HERE. If we as a community, or even a State, allow this to happen and continue to happen, we have only ourselves to blame.

Meet with school adminstrators and let them know how strongly you feel about quality teaching and to keep this kind of BS out of our schools. Since Georgia has no kind of teachers union to support quality teaching, it is solely left up to YOU!!!!

Otherwise, this type of thing will continue to happen more and more frequently. Good teachers have to have strong support from administration who in turn gets their support from the community.

By Angie

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Gwinnett residents need to press for the removal of J. Alvin Wilbanks, chairman of the school board. Didn’t I read less than two years ago that Mr. Wilbanks was under investigation for pressing teachers and administrators to reclassify violent crimes in Gwinnett schools so that they wouldn’t lose federal funding. This man is absolutely corrupt!

As for the coach and principal at this school, they are the ones who need to be fired. They enable children to fail at reaching their academic potential.

By Chris Carson

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Is anyone really surprised that the school board would support a sleeping student over a disciplined science teacher?

Of course they will stand behind their policy…as if that didn’t need to be changed too. How do we expect teachers to teach our kids in an atmosphere where they can not discipline their students?

Gwinnett County…we support sleeping in the classroom!

Good grief!

By kandidkathy

May 6, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

Well this just goes to show you that the policy of “No child left behind” is in full compliance. Students can still sleep and get a perfect grade. What about respect for the teacher of staying awake in his class which was a class policy as well. Come on school board get your head out of the sand. We need experienced seasoned teachers. I am sure this wasn’t his first rodeo in dealing with this boy. The only children that are going to be left behind in this case are the kids that weren’t horsing around and sleeping and got their work done on time. Because this poor teacher had to disrupt his class to explain all of this to little johnnie. I am sure, since he is a football player that he wouldn’t understand what he did was wrong I mean we all need naps in advanced classes. And I am sure that it is the Football policy to include nap time. I have a feeling all the smart kids got left behind in this classroom ya think?

By Bill

May 6, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

Reason # 17b why you need to take your kid(s) out of the government schools and put them in a private school of your choice. This way, if you don’t like what is happening at that school, you can CHOOSE to take your kid(s) out and put them somewhere else you CHOOSE to instead of being TOLD by the government where THEY choose for your kids to be.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

People keep talking about how society has changed to allow student athletes to get away with this nonsense and how Mr. Neace is such a great man for doing what he did.

Obviously, Mr. Nease is a good teacher.

He also is a teacher who broke the rules.

It does not matter how long he had his “Own” policy. The fact is it went against the BOE’s guidlines, therefore, he was wrong.

The overwhelming sentiment here is the hate or dislike for student athletes.

If people of Dacula and Gwinnett feel that student athletes are getting the pampered treatment then they should bring the facts to the board and ask for change.

This teachers rogue policy has nothing to do with the student athlete issue.

Some say this teacher is making students ready for the real world. Is the example..

Do whatever you want. Smoke pot,inhale meth and sniff coke. If its your rule then its fine. Who cares as long as no one says anything its great!

The student that fell asleep could have been given detention, suspension or forced to miss a game. He should not have received a zero for handing in a paper that he aced.

I also beleive if the teacher had not been so pigheaded he would be working today.

Greg

By Todd

May 6, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

I for one would like to commend Mr. Neace for having the courage to both take the action he did and to stand behind that action when challenged. This man has conducted himself in a manner befitting a true educator and the crime lies not in his failure to alter the grade, but in depriving young students of his presence in the classroom.

I have worked for the University System for a number of years and I have personally witnessed a decline in both the level of preparedness and self discipline exhibited by new students year over year. The problem does not lie solely with the students; it begins at home and has gradually filtered into the academic community that is supposed to challenge our young people, not pamper them.

I graduated from Cobb County schools in 1993, arguably not the dark ages. My first impression after enrolling in college was that High School simply did not prepare me for life as a college student. I still feel that I received an excellent secondary education and I was an honors student, but the fact remains that our school systems are moving in the wrong direction.

I have certainly never been a model student and I most definitely had to swallow my share of penalties, whether it be for turning assignments in late or incomplete, missing or being late to class, or for being disruptive. In all cases, the penalties were reflected in my grade. Our teachers volunteer to educate our children and deserve respect. Sleeping in class is disrespectful to the teacher, the classmates, and to the educational system. It should not matter who you are, whether you are an athlete or honor student, being disrespectful should carry a penalty.

Perhaps Mr. Neace’s classroom policy did not comply with board policy. Where was the oversight of this policy for the last 10 years? Where was the administration the other times students were penalized. If Mr. Neace is to be penalized, so should the administration. After all, the captain must go down with the ship.

Obviously, this student and/or his/her parents are not willing to accept that actions have consequences. Many of us may argue that there are other penalties, such as detention or suspension; both are simply a joke - quite nearly a vacation for the student. However, I know that when I brought a poor grade home, I had to explain why. I also know that if I explained that I had slept in class, disrupted class, or was otherwise disrespectful, I would have received a far worse punishment.

Perhaps the real question is whether the school board’s policy should be changed. Educators need to be given freedom to conduct their classes as they see fit, withing reasonable limits. Penalizing students by deducting points from grades is very reasonable and should normally result in a correction in behavior. We simply can not continue tying our teachers hands and in-turn point the proverbial finger back at them when our children find themselves undereducated and unprepared for life beyond high school.

Obviously the above is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect any views other than my own. However, it is absolutely abhorring that this dedicated educator of 23 years has been dismissed for such a petty reason.

By Jill Dunaway Hart

May 6, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe they fired Doc Nease…I graduated from Dacula High in 88, and he was one of the best teachers I ever had. I feel sorry for the students that are not going to have the chance to learn from a great teacher.

By Ed

May 6, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Shame on you Doc!! How dare you try to instill some discipline and accountablity in our public school system. This is Gwinnett County for God sakes. Our students never do anything wrong.

By Mike

May 6, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

Discipline the kid for falling asleep? Yes. Do it by lowering his grade? NO! Grades should measure knowledge, and should not reflect sleepiness, tardiness, or sassiness. The kid should receive detention, an extra assignement, clap erasers, etc., something more appropriate. If he fell asleep, maybe the teacher is boring.

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

As a parent of a Dacula High School student, we need to do something to show we are not going to let this go. A protest against Donnie Nutt at the high school would let him know how we feel.

By Cathy

May 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

Come on folks, it isn’t even a case of giving a 0 for discipline purposes. If he was asleep when work was assigned in class and he didn’t do the work then he got a zero for that part of the assignment. We all know this is a football issue and the coaches should be ashamed of themseleves for letting a student get so far behind in a class that 1 bad grade could put him in jeopardy.

By Ashley

May 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

I find it interesting that most students, parents, and other people in the Dacula district as well as around the county support Doc Neace. And yet the people we elected to vote for us and settle disputes for us voted against what we want. I went to Dacula High and had Doc Neace for Physics. I always paid attention so I wouldn’t get points taken away. To the the parent that feels his son deserves the perfect grade on his assignment, are you going to fight the college or university he goes to every time he gets treated unfairly? Because let me tell you, life is unfair and your parents can’t fight all your battles. To the Gwinnett County Board of Education, issues like this is why my children will never step foot in one of your schools. I guess this also is one step closer to explaining why Georgia is 49th in the nation as far as education goes. You don’t want to teach our kids responsibility and and you want to take it away from the teachers. Carol Boyce is the only smart one on the board.

By Jim

May 6, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

This is a sad commentary on education in America, when a teacher who stands for discipline—in the era of 5 yr olds throwing tantrums— is fired for disciplining a student! You say it is improper to use grades in a punitive manner. Try getting fired for not changing a grade for a punitive measure. The loss of a grade in order to learn an important life lesson—responsibility— pales in comparison. What lesson are “Doc” Nease and other teachers to learn from his firing? If you discipline your students you risk losing your livelihood! Reinstate “Doc”!
Fire the school board!

By MJ

May 6, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

Are you serious? Clap erasers? Parents would get up in arms about that, too! It all comes down to holding students accountable for their actions. You have to make the students care. Some students love to sit in detention. As for the extra assignment - why do it? If he gets a zero, wouldn’t that be considered discipline since it was assigned for discipline? Really.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

The student earned a perfect grade on an assignment, the teacher gave him half the credit as punishment..citing that it was his own personal policy. I for one would like to know more of the circumstances around this incident. Did the student have a habit of sleeping in “Doc’s” class? Did “Doc” ask if the student was sick? Was “Doc” lecturing or just writing up an assignment. Everyone seems to think the teacher is a saint in this incident, but I remember quite a few egotistical teachers when I was in high school…many of them had a deep resentment for student athletes. Maybe his policy was never challenged before because those students were just crappy students anyway..after all, an “F” is an “F”..but changing an “A” to a “F” or even a “C” is a big leap…I for one would have challenged that. I’ve known a lot of teachers, with different levels of popularity, that come to think of their classes as their little kingdoms. Like someone else said before, I think there is more going on here than just what is printed. He’ll probably be reinstated anyway.

By brittney

May 6, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

Clay- would you mind telling me what was incorrect about my posting? No I am no longer in school. I have been through college and am now a respected Chemist. Please tell me what you found incorrect… and why you have to point me out for speaking my opinion. The topic is not me it is Dacula HS.

By B

May 6, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

The facts: If a student sleeps in class during a physics lab, it is safe to assume that the student copied/cheated on that assignment in order to complete it perfectly. The student is lucky that he wasn’t given a zero and accused of cheating.

A football player is expected to be a leader in a school and should be taught character in addition to the game of football. Football players are held to higher expectations than many other students because of the position they hold in the school.

The Cheeks are over influential in the football program

By Casey Bowman

May 6, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

It seems to me that while Mr. Neace did violate a school board policy, it is the policy itself which is in error. People wonder why the U.S. consistently falls behind other nations in test scores, etc… Well the answer is that we don’t hold students responsible for poor performance in school anymore. We’ve become too worried that students can’t handle failure. It seems to me that the best way to avoid failure is hard work, dedication, and focus. Instead we give students an excuse to fail because we’ve set such amazingly low standards for performance. Hopefully this situation will bring the problem out in the open people will realize that we must change some of our policies if we expect students to perform well. Expect more out of students! Many will surprise you.

By Georgia

May 6, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Just like when I was in school. Athletes were always treated as untouchable. Two sets of Rules, one for the athletes one for the rest of the school. SHAME on the board for condoning this behavior

By Concerned Parent II

May 6, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

I agree with Concerned Parent above. Most employees have rules they must follow. If they don’t like those rules, they have the option of quitting or attempting to go through the appropriate channels to get those rules changed. Most employees do not have the option of improvising and implementing their own rules in the workplace. Since Gwinnett has policies in place to address disciplining students who sleep in school, then Neace should have followed those policies, regardless of whether the student was a jock or a valedictorian. Apparently, he has been flagrantly disregarding Gwinnett policy for at least 10 years. I fault school administrators, as well as Neace, for allowing this to occur for so long. Should Neace have been fired? Probably not, but his punishment should have been severe.

By Amy

May 6, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

As as teacher in another metro county, I fully support Mr. Neace. We have too many students being given grades they do not deserve simply because they play a sport. We have to hold these students responsible for their actions and punish them when appropriate. Otherwise, how do we expect them to be able to function in the real world once they leave the protected environment of high school?

By M Smith

May 6, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

Once again, the stigma of doing what you are paid for raises its ugly head and likewise, once again, this same stigma shows the real intention, not only of this so-called school board, but of the majority in this nation… Education has become nothing much more than a baby sitting service.. Teachers are not viewed as educators, but merely as “sitters” and in many cases, tools of government… It is NOT their job to educate, rather to make sure students receive the full measure of propangda as spewed forth from the powers on high.

I wonder what message this sends to kids today… Do they honestly believe they can enter into the work force and then sleep at their desks..?

No wonder this nation has fallen from the level of education excellence to that of education stupidity…

By GS

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

What happened to the other 500 comments on here that supported the teacher?

Sounds like the AJC is bending over backwards for Gwinnett County again.

By Cliff

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

Why not let the other students decide on the sleeping students fate? Probably a better system than the one in place.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

to B:

“safe to assume” is not a “Fact”.

By Karen

May 6, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

So when my children are sick I should send them to school and let them sleep there until well again…it won’t effect their grades.

By Anonymous

May 6, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

When I was in school, part of conduct was part of your overall grade. If this guy couldn’t behave himself in calss, regardless of whether he was an athelete, then he deserves a lower grade. It’s time we stop pampering these kids and teach them some hard lessons.

By Gee

May 6, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

Brittney - you kneed to lern to spel more bettur.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

to Brian: How else could the student get the data????? If is VERY safe to assume that he copied the data for the lab from another student. Get a life, Brian!

By Ralph

May 6, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

Gwinett continues its tradition of persecuting any teacher who will stand up to its draconian regime. First, the test whistle blower and now a highly regarded science teacher. Can anyone wonder why we have a teaching shortage?

By Parent

May 6, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

Last year at Dacula High School, another Physics Teacher had less than 5 of his Advanced Placement students out of about 60 PASS the Advanced Placement test, yet there was no discipline - at least none that we as parents heard about. Now a teacher is being disciplined for handing out zero’s if a child SLEEPS in his class? I understand that participating in class earns a grade - as it does in many other classes. Take PE for example; if a student doesn’t dress out, he/she gets a zero. With a course as tough as Physics, doesn’t it make sense that being COHERENT is essential to learing the material?! To call giving a zero for sleeping a ‘disciplinary measure’ is ridiculous. What’s the old saying… ‘if you snooze you lose’? The school board was way off on this one, as was the principal. We need more teachers like Doc Neese who will prepare our students for the real world. I encourage others to speak out about this travesty.

By tc

May 6, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

As the late Lewis Grizzard said, “The problem in Georgia is that we have too many “educators” and not enough teachers. This state needs more people like Mr. Neace and fewer like Mr. Nutt and the superintendent.

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

TO GEE Thank you for your Critism. How thoughtful that we are talking about Dacula HS and you feel the need to comment on spelling. Point out what is so wrong with my posting. God bless.

By Georgia

May 6, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

In response to the Michael Moore doing a documentary, he would distort the truth, splice and dice until it became a film of fiction.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I was a student athlete in high school and I once fell asleep in a spanish class…once..it was at 7:30 am on that day and I could not keep my eyes open. I’m sure it pissed the teacher off…although she never said anything. I earned a “B” in that class (I still remember) and I went on to a BS and MS degree later in life. So I would stil like to know if this was an isolated incident or a continuing problem for this student athlete? By the way, to you people lamenting about falling asleep in college…get real…the professor would either throw the student out of class, or not care, only seeing the student as one more social security number.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I want to attempt to summarize this tragic event:

1. Yes, the teacher’s policy was against the board’s.
2. Yes, the student slept through a lab.
3. Yes, the student turned in a report. However, where did the student get the data to write the report? If the student did not do the lab, where did the info. come from?

Had I been Doc, I would have said, “Fine. The student does not get a grade of 50 for sleeping, but rather the student gets a 0 for copying.” In my school system there is the Student Honor Code that is much more harsh when addressing copying.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

What is very frightening are the posts from other teachers that say they support Mr. Neace and his policy.

Teachers should be willing to admit he broke the rules first, and then share their frustrations.

Teachers in Georgia then need to take these frustrations and present these issues to the Board of Education. If that doesn’t work then go to the State Officials.

Teachers set examples. You can not teach kids that you can make you on rules at will.

In society we have rules.

Those that break rules are called criminals.

Greg

By Jess

May 6, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

As someone who went to Dacula I must say that this whole incident isn’t surprising. It happens more than people think. Only this time, it is at the expense of someone’s job. All in all, this situation is very sad. I think that Doc Neace is a wonderful teacher. It’s disheartening that football is more important than a good educator. People have different opinions about if it matters that the student was a football player. Believe me, it does. If the student had not been an athlete, the problem would have been non-existent. Didn’t you know that football players need to get a good GPA so they’ll get accepted into whatever school they are going to sign with? I do not think that the school board has made the right decision. Not only have they fired a good teacher, but they are just reiterating the notion that football is Gwinnett’s number one priority. It’s ridiculous that sports are held at a higher precedent than education. The education of the students should be the most important thing. I understand that he did not adhere to the policies. I think that he should get in trouble for that, but firing the man, that’s a little too steep of a penalty. Maybe they should look at changing the policies. All through high school you hear that it is supposed to prepare you for college. It doesn’t. In college, you are responsible for your own grades. Mom or dad can’t help you out and neither can the Dean. Student athletes have a certain grade point average the have to keep, and if their grades are dropping the get tutoring. The coaches do not help them out. Professors do deduct points from your final grade if you sleep in class, are late or absent from class. In most colleges, education is the priority, not sports and I think that’s what the problem is here in Gwinnett. The priorities need to be set straight.

By JD

May 6, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Congratulations Dacula HS.

You deserve whatever you get from now on.

By Michael

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Ahhhhhhhhhhh… the incredible, wonderful, stellar Gwinnett County Public School System at its best. The school board said it all in their vote…”We in Gwinnett County have a policy ladies and gentlemen…we will FIRE ALL of the quality teachers and only KEEP the ones who will do everything we say. GOOOOOOOOO Gwinnett Athletics!!! What a JOKE Gwinnett County!!

By Lynn

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Firing this teacher sets a bad example for students who will now think it’s OK to sleep in class. Attendance and participation are necessary for learning, how can you learn if you’re asleep. It’s common practice in college for professors to grade on participation. Will we hear about this kid again when he’s sleeping in college and demanding full credit there? Would his football coach accept him sleeping on the bench?

By Rosalind

May 6, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

Teachers need to be supported in the classrooms. They deal with children who already feel like they can just run over them and get away with whatever…because they can just tell somebody on them. It’s his classroom. Allow him to run it. Sleeping is something that should be done at home. What’s wrong with her grade being affected because she was sleeping in class? I’m thinking (now I could be wrong because I wasn’t actually there), but I’m thinking, she couldn’t have been getting much work done while she slept. As long as teachers aren’t out of control and mistreating the children, let the do the job they were hired to do. Teach our children!

By Joe D

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I consider Mr. Neace a hero. The kids who are being coddled by this stupid school board policy will eventually lose, after they’ve all flunked out of the University of Georgia in their new BMW’s, because, like, uh-oh, they actually expect us to be able to conjugate verbs, or, like, know the periodic table. Duh. What a typical Suburban Atlanta me - mine - now - I deserve to have it all without working for it - story. Kinda reminds me of a certain President we’ve got going for us….

By DC

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I could be more supportive of the school board if their decision was completely objective. However, after a decade of enforcing this policy, this teacher was finally “caught” simply because an athlete was involved. I’m keenly disappointed in the subjective enforcement of what is frankly a typically politically correct policy in the first place. High school students need to be prepared for the real world, not protected from the consequences of their own choices. Sleep through class? Watch your pay get cut if you sleep on the job.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Dear Greg: Is your real name Donnie, Kevin or Barry?

By Frank

May 6, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

Why is it that we can sit here and voice our opinions in a respectful manner but there always seem to be a few idiots who feel the need to bash others posting their opinions. Who cares if someone makes a typo or words something that does not seem correct. Just discuss the topic at hand and act like adults here. We wonder why children are so disrespectful now-a-days…

By Larry

May 6, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I wish the very best for Doc. I’m sure a physics teacher with 23 years experience will be snapped up very quickly by another school system. This could be the best thing to happen to him career wise. This is yet another reason why my two children have NEVER been nor will EVER be in the public school system.

By 4mer GCS student

May 6, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I will no longer tell people that I graduated from Gwinnett County Schools, with my head held high. ” Not using Grades for Discipline”, This would be an okay policy for disruptive behavior in the classroom, there are other methods of discipline. But sleeping through a lesson should get you a failing grade every time. Glad to be a former resident of Gwinnett. If the current school board and Superintendent continues to hold their jobs it will be a shame. “Go Doc. I know that a great teacher like yourself will land a good job somewhere. To bad DHS lost a good one.

By Brian

May 6, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

To Robert, It is a valid assumption that he might have cheated, but that is not a FACT.
I haven’t read anywhere that the student is suspected of cheating..have you?

And what is with the “Get a life?” insult? That’s not very useful.

This is a blog…everyone doesn’t agree.

By Gee

May 6, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Brittney - I’d rather pick on a respected chemist’s poor spelling skills than comment on this lame issue.

By Tammy

May 6, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

As a former studant, knowing the rules up front in “doc’s” class room you should be ashamed of yourself and Having your parents fight your battles!

Geez, what next! Any school anywhere in the country would be lucky to have “Doc” for a teacher!

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Greg, As a teacher, I understand where other teachers are coming from. You have no idea. We are told not to give academic penalties for behavior, but no one will define behavior for us. Is behavior leaning over during a test to copy? Is behavior shouting out test answers during a test? Is behavior passing notes with answers on them? Administrators enjoy playing a game of “fuzzy rules” so that they can apply as they wish to each individual case.

In the meantime, it is left up to the teacher to try to do the right thing for the students. And God forbid if we happen to do anything that upsets the students, crazy parents, and then the administrators.

No wonder there is a teacher shortage in Georgia.

By Tammy

May 6, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

As a former student, knowing the rules up front in “doc’s” class room you should be ashamed of yourself and Having your parents fight your battles!

Geez, what next! Any school anywhere in the country would be lucky to have “Doc” for a teacher!

By petrovs

May 6, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Bravo, Doc!! It’s about darn time that someone had the courage to stand up to disruptive students and insist that students follow the rules in his classroom. We are graduating a bunch of uneducated, mollycoddled sissies and educators hands are tied because we’ve done away with any meaningful punishment. Since Dacula doesn’t want Doc, send him to a school where education, respect and obedience is valued.

By Lainey

May 6, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

I think that some other actions should have been taken in Doc’s case. He is an awesome teacher I had him last year and he taught me so much. He prepared me for what was coming ahead. He is the most challenging teacher Dacula has ever seen. He has been here longer than any teacher and even our stupid principle who should be fired himself (for being a moron). I was at Doc’s case last night and briefly talked to him and he told me “to keep my fingers crossed”. I kept my fingers crossed and in this case I think the students should decide if they want to take away a teacher who turned on the lights in the school. Who was there before anyone else and who has probably changed more peoples lives than anyone else. I think that the so called football star(Wesley Cheek) should quit complaining about Doc’s way of teaching and suck it up.He was the one sleeping. This is just one Senior student from Dacula who believes this imagine how many more feel the same way. We as a student body loved Doc Neace. He should be allowed to come back and teach once again and as for football players and Coach Maloof they all need to p**s off.

By tired of stuff

May 6, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

Even though I don’t live in Georgia, I am convinced the “good ole boy” system is alive and well in Georgia. The very idea of firing a teacher who has expectations of students shows that Georgia is still in the 1800s. along with other things I have read in this newspaper. Folks, it is time to enter the 21 century. Hold kids (and school boards) accountable for their actions. I am behind the teacher 100% and at the same time I pity the student involved in this case because he will, indeed be “left behind” when (if) he enters the real world where folds work for a living. I am sure the teacher will receive job offers from different school districts that are thinking clearly.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

Larry, Why must you generalize this case to ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS? Do you really think that private schools do not have their own issues? LOL.

By Mark

May 6, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

What other “sticks” do teachers have for discipline within their classrooms than the grades they assign? Every grade I ever received was subject to reduction if I did not perform to the teacher’s expectations in every way. Once you get to high school, you don’t get separate grades for ‘Conduct’ or ‘Working Well with Others’ - your grade is for your overall performance. But, obviously, athletics is a bigger deal than academics in Gwinnett. Let’s have the Gwinnett School Board spend a month in the classroom and see what motivation they use to keep their students in line. The very fact that the Board had such a policy in the first place is disgusting, but to actually believe they can enforce it is another issue entirely. This is not the only case of a student’s grade being lowered due to discipline and I hope the Board is prepared to deal with all the future complaints.

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

Oh goodness so I made a typo. you have yet to tell me what that was. If you do not want to comment on this situation then go to another section of the website. For the people that are talking about this subject-it obviously matters to them-so leave this page if you do not want to comment. Go do something more productive with your time rather than finding someone on the postings to bash. God bless your heart for being so ignorant.

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

Mr. Neace’s firing has more to do with the fact that he stood up for what he knew was right instead of hunkering down to the powers that be. That kind of courage just doesn’t sit well with J. Alvin and crew. They prefer to have all the control. Once again GCPS is sitting in the middle of an ugly controversy with Mr. Wilbanks at the helm. When will enough be enough?

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

To “B”. Next time you state that you are providing “facts”, make sure you have the facts. Sounds like you have an axe to grind with this “Cheek” family.

Again, as stated earlier, the student is an A/B student. Cutting his perfect grade by 50% or even making it a 0 would not effect his status on the football team. This has nothing to do with football.

This was a homework assigment, not an in class lab assignment so the student did not have to cheat to get an A. Doc Neace did not cut his grade because he thought he was cheating.

Gwinnett County Public Schools has a well documented policy on dealing with kids that sleep in class, cut class, etc. Doc Neace had tools available to him to discipline this student for sleeping. He elected not to use the tools provided made up his own.

I don’t want my child going to a school where there is a different set of rules in every classroom. If my child sleeps in class then punish him as outlined by school policy. I support that 100%, but don’t make up your own rules because you think you are the King just because you have taught for 23 years.

Doc Neace is clearly a great teacher and probably did not deserve to be fired for this, but in the end, he brought this on himself.

By DC

May 6, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

Here, interspersed in a terrific discussion about a stupid decision are two typical streams: the constant chant “unionize!” and insults about spelling/grammar/etc. Teachers don’t need to unionize any more than other professionals (accountants, nurses, etc.). If you position yourself as a professional, act like it. As for those of you resorting to insults, get over yourself.

By cathy

May 6, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

Shame on the Coaches for allowing this player to display such a disrespect for authority, He is a disgrace to your program. What time do you tuck your players in for nap time at practice? If they held this kid’s feet to the fire from the beginning this situation would have never escalated. The parents sound like they too need a dose of reality. Never mind the Dad, he sounds like a washed up jock himself, but what kind of self respecting Mother would allow her child to conduct himself in such a manner? I understand the testosterone levels are running high in situation, but as a woman she has the responsiblity to instill in her son morals and self respect. Young ladies of Dacula HS watch out for this looser, the kid sounds like a walking D—khead. Doc, you rock! Great Educators are hard to find. Wilbanks and Nutt, get a backbone you are NOT doing our students or community a favor!

By Tasha

May 6, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

My husband graduated from Dacula High School in 1990 and had Mr. Neace as his physics teacher. The only reason he took physics in college was because of the impact Mr. Neace put on him. I cannot believe Mr. Neace was fired over a policy he has been implementing for 10 years. That seems a little harsh if nothing has been done about it before. My husband and I are seriously debating putting our kids into a private school and what has happened to Mr. Neace is a good example why.

By Clark

May 6, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

I can see the headlines on the national papers: 49th last Georgia, fires top science teacher to protect football player. I fully support the teacher who did an outstanding job. Football friday should never take over class time. The fact is, this kid has a better chance of making it with a college degree than making into the NFL. If everyone from the colleges and down would understand that, people would start realizing that Georgia is more than another state in the backwards South.

By Rene'

May 6, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

It is very sad that our school system still thinks that sports are more important than academics. In EVERY class I ever attended, I knew that class paticipation was a factor in my grade, that meant PAYING ATTENTION in class. It is extremely difficult to pay attention if you are asleep! What kind of message is the school board sending to the students? It’s okay to misbehave or not follow the teacher’s class rules, because we have our own rules. Whatever happened to standing behind the teacher? And what kind of message is this boy’s parents sending to him? That’s okay son, go ahead, don’t follow the rules, as long as you are popular and I can bend the rules for you, I will bail you out… Sounds to me like the parents, the child and the school board need their heads examined! Remember the 3 R’s? Reading, Writing (Riting) and ‘Rithmatic? Well, ther’s a 4th R! RESPONSIBILITY!

By Dianne Byrd

May 6, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

This is just an absolute outrage. I cannot believe that a science teacher with over twenty years experience does not have the support of his administrators is such situations. I have said so many times recently as I read the paper, WHO makes these decisions?

It is a shame that our educators and scholars have such difficulty in passing on valuable information that will obviously benefit the student.

Until parents take back the reins and have more control over their children, I am afraid their futures look bleak. What great leadership examples we are setting.

I sincerely wish the best of luck to Dr. Nease, looks like he is going to have a long row to hoe. When we were in school, sleeping in class was not an option!

By Margaret Aurand

May 6, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

And we wonder why it is so difficult to find good teachers, especially in the sciences? Mr. Neace sounds like an excellent teacher. He set out his policies at the beginning of the term. Since time immemorial, teachers have made class participation a part of the grading process. Falling asleep in class isn’t exactly good participation, is it? It smells really fishy that he was fired for reducing an ATHLETE’S grade after having used the same policies in his classroom for over a decade. Mr. Neace was upfront and fair with his students, which is why so many of them are upset about his firing. I taught high school for about 20 years, and know whereof I speak.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:47 AM | Link to this

To former parent:

Thats funny.

No I am just someone who see’s the issue clearly.

Folks are bashing student athletes but praising a good teacher who created his own policy while breaking established rules.

Maybe Mr. Neace was right to an extent but he went about it the wrong way.

Like I said earlier, people need to gather the facts and present them to the board first before becoming vigilantes.

Mr. Neace and all other teachers should have shared their frustrations with the board. The teachers should present facts showing that student athletes are getting “the treatement”.

Then present a solution such as Mr. Neace’s so that the problem can be made null.

What Mr. Neace did is circumvent the process. You can not do that. Thats why he got fired.

No one is saying the student should not have been punished. I think he should have been, but it should not have been to give him a zero if he aced his work.

Mr. Neace did not help himself by his sarcastic remarks during a serious meeting as well.

No wonder crime is out of control in Georgia. Seems like alot of people are allowed to do whatever they want in the state.

From teachers to crooks.

Greg

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

Greg, I was very interested to learn from you that anyone who breaks the rules is considered a criminal. I’m fairly certain that a school board policy does not rise to the level of a criminal offense. Even breaking the law doesn’t necessarily mean you are a “criminal” because violations of law do not always rise to the level of a criminal offense. But even if you were correct in stating that breaking the rules makes you a criminal, then there are lots of criminals out there who have made this country a better place in which to live. For example, if no one ever broke the rules, then we’d still be living in the 50s when black people couldn’t drink out of the same water fountain as white people or sit at the same lunch counter. Breaking the rules isn’t always a bad thing, when the rule in question is absolutely ridiculous. And this school board policy is just that. Ridiculous.

By Julie Avery

May 6, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Good for you, Doc, for taking a stand for what is right. When I was in school there was no question of getting zeroes for sleeping in class, it was automatic. It should still be automatic.Highschoolers are not babies, they should know better and take responibility for their actions. This is why our jails are running over with people who won’t take personal responsibility. Wake up, people.

By Disgusted Parent

May 6, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

This is not the only example of incompetence/stupidity by Donnie Nutt. He recently fired the Latin teacher and tried to eliminate the Latin program at DHS. He also banned the play “Of Mice and Men” a few years ago. I have never seen him or any other DHS administrator at a fine arts event (chorus concert, orchestra concert, play, etc.) - but you can’t miss them at the football games.

Suggestion for DHS students - go to a private school or request a permissive transfer to another Gwinnett County school. It might get the School Board’s attention if there was a mass exodus from DHS. Or - figure out a way to get Donnie Nutt fired - that would be the best solution.

By Ms Howard

May 6, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

As a future teacher, I know what school system I wont be applying to.

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Thank you DC. Why is it people feel the need to find every little problem with a persons’ posting. Just talk about the subject at hand. If you do not agree with a person stating their opinion then address IT not grammar and spelling. People are intitled to make mistakes…

By Ann Miller

May 6, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

This is not, and was not, ever about football. It was about a teacher becoming a megalomaniac and creating and enforcing his “own rules” for his classroom. Why is it everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that he had been reprimanded several times in the past and continued to do things “his way?” Students are to receive disciplinary actions such as detention or Saturday school for sleeping in class, not grade changes. The county has established rules for a reason, to protect the students from unfair grading practices.

Congratulations to Gwinnett County for enforcing their policy and standing their ground, all the while knowing that this teacher will most likely sue the county. Perhaps if the teacher was better at his job his student would not have fallen asleep in his class!

By Joanne

May 6, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Fire a good teacher?!?!?! The Gwinnett County school system needs to lighten up!

By Gee

May 6, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Bash Brittney? Just a comment on your poor spelling. You must be a product of these poor schools in Gwinnett. Probably a victimized Democrat looking for someone to come along and save your useless life because you can’t do it yourself - and pull us industrious tax paying job creators down the same shithole your lame politicians want you to believe you need to be in. How’s that? Just a sidebar.

By Jason

May 6, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

http://www.gwinnett.k12.ga.us/gcps-mainweb01.nsf/pages/BoardMembers6-BoardofEducation

The above link is for the Gwinnett County School Board Members. Contact them. They are elected officals, they hold office at our say so.

I’ve already contacted mine and told him his vote to fire this teacher has cost him my vote next election.

By Teacher

May 6, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

I encourage all fellow educators to join MACE, the closest thing Georgia has to a union. www.theteachersadvocate.com

By former parent

May 6, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Greg - you finally got what I meant. Crime is out of control because those in authority (judges, legislators, bosses, whoever) are not consistent in applying them. I agree that they should be obeyed. But they should be consistently obeyed and rules should not be used when it is convenient. But I suspect you are not on the inside of this issue. What I know would make your hair curl. But it all falls on deaf ears.

By crh

May 6, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

If the principal and school board can do this to a good teacher then teachers in Georgia beware!!! This is frightening and upsetting!!!!

By Ann

May 6, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Football is not the end all be all. Life lessons are. What Doc was teaching his students is discipline and there are consequences for your actions. Both which are needed in the “real world.”

It is a shame a tenured teacher lost his job for doing what was and is right. If this student wasn’t a football player, we the public would have never learned of this situation.

Teachers are here to teach not to babysit or pacify athletes. As soon as parents and it looks like the Dacula principal realize this, the world would be a better place.

I appreciate and applaud Doc for sticking up for the rest of teachers all over the country.

By Ms. Howard

May 6, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

For the parent who does not want there child going to school where the teacher has a different set of rules in each classroom. Do you expect your children to go to college and do well? If I was the teacher he would have been kicked out of my class.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

This is a clear case of Egos, Power and Bureaucracy out weighing Reason and Common Sense. This teacher was a victim of a “policy” established not by a body of educators but a body of politicians. If the people of Gwinnett County do not condone the elimination of an outstanding and successful educator they can in turn eliminate those politicians by voting them out of office or by en mass notifying them of their intention. More over, all that can say to this “Cry Baby” football player that could not take his medicine like a man, and his parents, is “Shame on you”.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

Jodi..

With so many people saying that Mr. Neace was right to break the rules and looking at Georgia’s current crime stats one could surmise that there are alot of rogue people in the state.

There a many people that feel Neace was justified. I feel he went about it the wrong way.

I’m sure many criminals feel justified in what they do too!

Greg

By debra hunter

May 6, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

if i had the fund i would pay the salary of all teacher in the state of georgia to quit their job. let the administator teach those misfits.

By AG

May 6, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

The Gwinnett School Board is setting a dangerous standard that may not be preparing students for life after school.

As an owner of a company, if an employee is found to be sleeping on the job…I’ll have one less employee.

Is this punitive in nature….I don’t think so. Unacceptable actions have consequences. Sleeping in a classroom is unacceptable behavior.

Pity the poor student who will graduate from the Gwinnett Public School system with an expectation that unacceptable behavior plus curried favor equals a “spoiled brat” who is most probably not prepared for life.

Just a thought…I understand that my thoughts and 75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee at Waffle House.

By Brittney

May 6, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

First off all Gee you have officially flipped your lid. Second I am a republican. Third I am not a product of this school system-I do not even live in this area. Thanks for trying to sum my life up but you are completely wrong. Who are you to say that my life is useless? I am very successful thank you. Not only do I have my own business-2 to be exact-but I am also a Chemist part time (as stated before) so before you go labeling my life as useless you need to get your facts straight.

By steve miller

May 6, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

I have a calculator

By EH

May 6, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

Hoorey for de skook fore firin that teatcher!!! I kant spel but I kan play sportz!!!

What a gaggle of morons these people are for firing a teacher who obviously has way more guts than the school board. What are we as a society coming to when we allow athletes to skip by just because of their athletic prowess? Yeah, “Johnny” may not can spell simple words, read well or he may even add 2 + 2 = 5 but by golly, he can throw a football 70 yards!

What will happen to “Johnny” when he gets hurt and that ends his sports career? Become a sports commentator no doubt. Yeah, there’s a future!

What would happen if “Johnny” decided to procreate and his child says “Daddy, read to me”. Or worse, if his child swallows poison and “Johnny” can’t read the label of what do to in case of accidental ingestion.

How sad for this school board that they’re cutting off their proverbial noses to spite their face and not stand up for what’s right.

I commend this educator for sticking to his guns. I wonder though, who raised the stink on the failing grade first. The student who flunked, or his parents. Where were THEY educated? International Correspondence School?

By Shooter

May 6, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Please stop saying “maybe class was boring.” Many nine-to five jobs are boring - I’m sure most individuals don’t race out the door to get to a job that entertains them all day long. Teaching students is not meant to be entertainment - and it should reflect the values of corporate America. Meaning, daily boring tasks, no sleeping at your desk and no mommy and daddy to fight for you when you feel slighted. If Doc was violating county policy and has been for ten years then the administration is either GROSSLY incompetent or just as culpable for allowing it to go on. SO if you believe Doc was justly fired for not following board policy then you must believe the administration needs to be removed as well - for incompetence or for being a willing and knowing accomplis.

By steve miller

May 6, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

One time I was jumping on my bed. My mom got really mad at me.

By Kerry

May 6, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this

School administrators should never ask a teacher to change a grade. The principal should have been the getting the pink slip. Perhaps the students should fire the school board, save the one that voted against firing the teacher.

By Peter Novak

May 6, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

Shame on you Gwinnett County School Board!!…nice to see where your priorities are!!

By Fred

May 6, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

The student is a “cry baby”wimp. The father is a fool. The school board is a version of the key stone cops. They were so lucky to have a teacher of this man’s caliber at their school. Nuff said.

By Mike Trammell

May 6, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

Man, when I played football thirty plus years ago, when player got caught sleeping in class,he would have to run till his tongue drug the ground.

Mike

By Lainey

May 6, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

I think that Doc should get his job back. There are so many less challenging teachers in Dacula that the last thing we need is the one who does challenge us being gone. I had Doc as a teacher last year and did not do exceptionally well in his class but came out of it with a greater knowledge of things I would have never known if he hadnt taught me. Mr. Nutt (the moron that he is) should be fired. We need more teahcers who strive for excellence and coherence in class. Wesley Cheek’s father needs to quit fighting battles for his son. His son made the decision to sleep in class and it is his own fault for making the grade. As far as Coack Maloof is concerned this is an academic issue not a footbal issue. Keep out of it when all you do everyday is sit behind a desk and get paid for it. What is your purpose? (To have a winning football team) When most fo the students who come out of high school never touch a ball again. Let Doc back into Dacula where he belongs. Imagine how many lives he’s changes and how many more he could change. This issue will not rest until the people and students of Gwinnett county feel thjat justice is served. I am a senior at Dacula High school and when re-elections come around for the Board of education you can believe that people will not vote for you again if you keep the coice to fire Doc. I was there at Doc’s trial and I will pass on the word to everyone. Doc Neace told me, “Keep your fingers crossed.” I will continue to do that until he is reinstated. I believe that if one person from my senior class feels this way then imagine how many others do? Look at how many people showed up last night in support of Doc. Just think about it.

By john

May 6, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

again the elite left in education prove that they don’t care about “the children” if they did they would have given this guy a raise and kicked the kid out of school what a very sad statement the school board has made

By Lynn Russo

May 6, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

The Principal of the school should be fired not the teacher. The ignorance of a Principal to want to give a good grade to an athlete is the reason why our school systems are turning out young people with poor educations. If a student falls asleep during class and does not know the material how is the teacher useing grades as punishment?While sports are a good for the school the athletes do not survive in the real world because their educational grades are fabricated. The Board of Education should terminate the principal immediately and any other educator that goes along with his policy.

By Karen

May 6, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

If we don’t support our educators, – Georgia already a laughingstock in the quality education, we will be face with a school system dictated by popular students. America is already producing fewer mathematicians and scientist than China and Japan (by 4 times the amount we educate), if you want America to remain a world power than you darn well better invest in teachers and teaching students what America needs to compete. You need to keep the focus on training the future that United States need – we really don’t need more professional athletes – we need students that understand and can do reading, writing, math and science. We need people that understand how a cell phone work, a computer, radiation effects, how to write a legible sentence, read a spreadsheet, understand what they read – like the syllabus in a classroom and be measured by that standard.
Get a grip on the focus of your job and develop a backbone – if you need an explanation try asking Larry Neace.

By James

May 6, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

What has our education system come to. A student violates a course requirement, gets a lower grade for it, and his teacher gets fired. What is this student going to do when he violates a college professor’s syllabus, call DADDY? Forget it, he’ll get an F, and keep bad grades until he flunk’s out, and waste Daddy’s money. I expected better than this from Gwinnett Counties Board of Ed. You should be ashamed, and kicked off the Board. Student responsibility and accountability is missing here.

By Lindsay

May 6, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

As a former student of Dacula High School, I do wish to congratulate Doc Neese for his efforts to save the students of DHS. I was a straight ‘A’ student and an athlete there and saw many times that I was given a “window of opportunity” because I was in sports. I however chose to take the higher road and complete assignments when asked to do so because I have always loved school. Even though it was harder, in retrospect, I am glad I did so because now I am a teacher in a high school as well. Dacula has always been big on letting athletes get by with nothing, especially football players. But what can you expect when all that is running the place are those football players’ daddies who were just old plow boys? My opinion get a new board to give Doc Nease a trial, oh, and make sure they at least have a college degree and not just a fifth grade education.

By Brad Gorka

May 6, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

I am outraged that Doc Neace has been fired. I had Doc for several classes years ago and he was one of the VERY BEST educators I have be fortunate enough to learn from. Dacula High school is more concerned with sports than education, and student athletes do get preferential treatment, they did 10 years ago when I was there, and still do now. I left Dacula a year early to attend college and it was by far the best decision I ever made. I HATED DACULA HIGH! But, Doc gave me a reason to be there, and gave me confidence, and helped me learn more about myself. I was picked on a lot at DHS, and went through some very tough times, and Doc is the reason why I made it through those 3 years in one piece.

Dacula High is run by a facist regieme of meat-head former athletes, and the Baptist Church down the street that has its grip girmly around the administrators there. The administrators do their best to push their fundamentalist christian ways upon everyone there and discourage uniqueness and any form of differentness among the student body.

If I still live in this area when I have kids some day, I would rather pay for private school (or teach them myself) before sending them to a Gwinnett County Public school. Doc Neace is the best teacher I have ever had, and he is FAIR to EVERY student ragardless of their status.

Sleeping is a class participation issue, which most teachers made part of their grading system. So, if you sleep, you ARE NOT PARTICIPATING! Therefore, you will loose class participation points if you choose to sleep during class. What the hell do the parents and administrators think happens in college??!?! I had several professors in college that had SPECIFIC rules about sleeping in class which often carried severe penalties against course grades.

Isn’t high school supposed to prepare students for college? Obviously Dacula is not concerned with this. Im just glad I went to a junior college before a regular university, otherwise I would have been overwhelmed by the demands there because my high school (Dacula) did not even come close to preparing me for university level courses.

Good job Gwinnett! You just fired the BEST teacher you have ever had!

Brad Gorka

By Bob

May 6, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Looks like the Principal and the School Board need to go back to school too, and perhaps attend some of Doc’s classes. I think they are sleeping on the job and missed the lessons on common sense, and the responsibilities of being an adult. Good luck Doc and don’t change your methods. We need more dedicated teachers like you.

By KRH

May 6, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

“… I’m sure many criminals feel justified in what they do too! “

There’s a difference in robbing a Circle K and endangering lives of innocent people and punishing a student for falling asleep in a class room.

Justifications for actions has to be balanced with common sense and reasoning. If it were determined Doc was showing malice and discriminating against one student or a group I could see the issue. Knowing Doc - he doesn’t go headhunting to feed an ego or target individuals for sadistic pleasures of failing them on purpose. 23 years of teaching and his support of this community speaks volumes of what many think of the rule measure against a man doing his job.

They need to re-instate him immediately. Shame on Coach Nutt and the Board.

By kathy

May 6, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

This brings up a sad memory of University of Georgia basketball players who were asked how many points a 3-point shot was worth on a final exam.

Have we learned nothing about leading and inspiring young adults to meet and exceed expectations?

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Greg, that you would even compare what Neace did to a criminal act or that you would suggest his actions would somehow contribute to Georgia’s crime rate is completely and utterly preposterous. The rise in crime probably has more to do with the fact that people are not taught that there are consequences to their actions and where better to instill that virtue than in high school. This whole affair just reinforces the notion that political correctness has taken over our public schools. Thank God I moved out of Gwinnett County right after I graduated from one of its pathetic excuses for a school.

By Michael Kaufmann

May 6, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Let’s face it. The equation is Georgia + athletics = Pass on the dummies, game day is coming. This is why most pro athletes cannot even read their fat paychecks. The sad fact is the outrage of firing a dedicated, professional teacher probably won’t change anything.

By Joanne

May 6, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

It’s time for a change at the top of the heap of the Gwinnett County School Board. Maybe you could have given Doc detention?!?!?

By Craig

May 6, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

And people wonder why Georgia is close to last in education compared to other states. Congrats Doc you did the right thing. Students go to class to learn and not sleep. I guess that I would have been fired too.

By Kimberly L.

May 6, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. The principal and the Board that did not support this teacher should be fired. I will remember this when the next elections for school board officials are due. Apparently, they are not concerned about the national student ratings! When will you wake up and decide that we are sick and tired of our children coming in last place. At what point will our children have to realize that their teachers and parents demand only the very best from them and anything less is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. If a student is sleeping in class, why does he deserve the same good grade as those who are paying attention??? FIRE THE PRINCIPAL; FIRE THE BOARD- the whole lot of them!!

By jj

May 6, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

I agree that teachers who set their own rules, regardless of board policy, put themselves in position to be disciplined. It almost sounds like “I can discipline him for not doing what I want, but you can’t discipline me for not doing what you want me to do.”

I don’t disagree with what Doc did, however, it is a bit hypocrtical.

I do feel that discipline affects grades. And there are public systems in georgia that allow grades to be disciplinary in measure. For example, attendance policies can lower or fail a student for excessive absences. I don’t disagree with this.

The bottom line is public education in this state is not where anyone, parents, teachers or students would like it to be. But my guess is that people, myself included, are spending more time right here reading and posting to this blog than actually doing something to help the problem.

By Tyrome

May 6, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

I am a 2nd grade teacher in Clayton County who believes that it is my duty, even at this early age, to teach my students the importance of responsibility. Unfortunately, we are witnessing two things happening in our society which are impediments to this once commonplace ideal: 1) Teachers losing more and more support from administration in the area of student discipline. 2) People, in general, are taking less and less responsibility for their actions. When a situation such as the one at Dacula High School takes place, it’s amazing that we even wonder why society is taking a NOSE DIVE!!!!! And you wonder why YOU (Superintendents and school boards) are losing GOOD TEACHERS.

By Elliott

May 6, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this

I am not a resident of Gwinnett but I am in Henry. I have young kids who will one day be in high school and I hope and pray they have teachers like this. The kid knew the rules from the beginning of the year so there is no excuse. I think the parents have a real problem with teaching their child any discipline if they can not accept the fact that their child did wrong. Grow up please!!!!

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

Just remember this- the school board was elected to represent you. If you don’t feel that their actions in this instance represented your opinion, you should definitely let them know it. In the past I have heard more than one board member say that no one ever contacted them, so they took that as approval of their actions.

By Cindy Ellett

May 6, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

As a parent, I did not like it when my daughter’s grades suffered at the hands of a prior English teacher (out-of-state)who had a problem being intimidated by her students and took it out on their grades. However,this was not something she warned them about, not something I could prove, and it was certainly not as “black and white” as this case is. In reviewing this case, I think that it is necessary for parents to understand a couple of things: First of all, from what his own students said, this teacher makes his grading policies well known right from the beginning. Most teachers assign a part of the student’s grade to their level of participation in class. Clearly, one cannot participate if they are sleeping in class. Second,it is vital for the teacher to have control over his classroom. In this case, Doc’s students are informed well in advance, and they Italics: make the choice to follow or not follow his rules. We must all understand that there are consequences to our actions when we choose to do other than abide by the rules. This being the case, and clearly understood by the members of the class,one student should not be allowed to challenge the teacher’s authority by being given preferential treatment (unless there were extenuating circumstances like the student was sick to the point that he could not keep his head up or something like that…but this was not mentioned as being the case).The alternatives of detention or ISS — suggested by other readers — are not very effective at this age since most kids do not mind these punishments, looking at them as a minor inconvenience — and more often than not, the violations recur. In addition, the football coach would have had something to say if the student were not allowed to participate in athletics over one incident like this. Doc’s method is the hard-line one, granted, but should be looked at as a Italics: deterrent to this kind of behavior by his students. Furthermore,like a judge in a courtroom, he must have the final say in his classroom to maintain the respect of his students, or chaos will reign. Bold & Italic: Schools must support their teachers and hold students accountable for their behavior instead of putting athletics ahead of academics; with the noted exceptions of when the teacher is abusing their power (as my daughter’s teacher did),or when there is any kind of questionable behavior on the part of the teacher…this is not the case here. Our kids will not learn to be positive, productive, responsible members of our society until and unless they are held acountable for their behavior.They find this out when they break laws, which is exactly what they will do if these situations are mishandled, as I feel is happening here. This teacher should NOT be fired but should be respected for attempting to teach students they are responsible and accountable for their actions.

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

I am a mom of 3 kids who all graduated with honors from Dacula HS. My oldest had Doc Neace for Physics about 7 years ago, and he is probably the finest teacher Dacula has ever seen. I attended Doc’s hearing that began at 4:30 on Thursday and concluded at 2:05 am this Friday morning. The room was packed with Doc’s supporters, present and past students, parents and many former Dacula HS teachers, some of the many of excellent veteran teachers who had departed in the last five years since Principal Nutt’s arrival because of his endless rules and the resulting depressing work atmosphere and rock bottom morale he created for his staff and teachers at Dacula HS.

Many of my kids’ former teachers who had departed Dacula HS for other more faculty friendly schools were sitting around me and one said that fortunately he got transfered, or he may have been sitting in Doc’s place. He said Doc had refused to buckle under Nutt’s thumb, and so Nutt had had Doc in his sights from day one.

Listen up Gwinnett County Public Schools, your world class school system doesn’t include Dacula HS whose faculty has been essentially dumbed down by Principal Nutt. According to the former teachers I spoke with last night, Nutt replaces the veterans he drives off with newbies, who he can pay less and rule more easily. GCPS needs to examine both the teacher turnover rate, the exodus of experienced teachers and influx of less experienced.

A hearing officer, provided by the State Bar of Georgia, presided and served as judge of the legal issues. The School Board was the finder of fact, essentially the jury. Evidence and testimony was presented on both sides, the Superintendent Wilbanks and his attorneys who were seeking Doc’s termination, and Doc and his attorneys.

As the facts unfolded it became clear to me that Doc Neace was railroaded. Here’s what I recall from the testimony and evidence. On March 28th Doc had an assignment the students were to work on in class. After receiving the assignment sheet two guys put their heads down on their desks, apparently sleeping. There wasn’t enough time to complete the task in class, so Doc said he would give 5-10 min the next class period. One of the sleeping students handed in his assignment, and when Doc graded it there were no points taken off for the actual work, but he took half off for the student’s waste of class time the previous day when he should have been working on the assignment. Doc’s syllabus, approved by the school each semester, presented to and signed by students each semester, which had been in use for ten years includes a provision that ‘wasting time’ during class will earn the student a zero on the in class assignment. Part of Doc’s teaching process is the in class help he provides to students as they work on the assignement, so anyone not working in class is not engaged in Doc’s teaching process. Doc only took half off this paper because he gave the students time the next period to complete the assignment.

The student complained to his dad who called principal Donnie Nutt for a meeting to discuss his son’s grade. The principal contacted the science dept. admin. who contacted Doc to set up a meeting for April 1st. There was no testimony that Nutt ever contacted or met with Doc to get the facts or discuss the matter before the parent meeting on April 1st. Doc testified that as he approached the principal’s office for the meeting before school he could see the parent in Nutt’s glassed in office, laughing and talking with the principal, then Nutt shook the parent’s hand and friendly patted him on the back. Doc testified that as a result he felt apprehensive going into the meeting not knowing what was going on.

Nutt began the meeting by letting the parent tell Doc his concerns which turned into a rant at Doc for about 15 minutes, including slamming papers on the table and cursing at Doc. Finally Nutt intervened and asked if Doc had taken off half the grade for the student’s sleeping in class, and when Doc said yes, Nutt started admonishing Doc in front of the parent and told him to change the grade. Doc testified that he felt like a whipped dog backed into a corner. So much for any support or meaningful communication from Doc’s supervising principal.

Later that day Principal Nutt presented Doc with a letter of direction to change the grade, reading it 3 times to him, hence following the school system’s policy requiring three requests. At issue was the fact that Doc considered his wasting time provision an academic matter, and Nutt said according to Board policy it was a discipline issue. Doc again told Nutt he couldn’t change the grade, but the principal could.

Spring Break was the next week, Doc was trying to contact the state prof stanards people to see if he would lose his certificate for changing a grade, and then after the break he was summoned to the County office and banned form all Gwinnett County campuses. He has told he had two options, resign or be fired.

It appeared that at no time did the school system folks get a statement from Doc, but they had statements from everyone else. When Doc brought up his concerns about his certificate, he was told this was a local board issue, not a state standards issue. But his teaching certificate was the key issue to Doc.

According to Superintendent Wilbanks testimony, Gwinnett County schools is focused on the “Business of Education.” I noted that he said business first, education second, and that’s what the school system focuses on, business rules and regs and policies. Doc Neace’s focus is on education first.

One question from the Board last night asked if at any point was a third party neutral brought in, and the answer was no. Nobody cared what Doc had to say.

My take on the whole process was that there was a total lack of professional communication from Principal to teacher, an unprofessional and abusive handling of the teacher-parent meeting, allowing the parent to rant and curse, then the admonishment of his teacher in front of a parent and Nutt’s rush to judgment, to throw his hot potato to the County HR people and move Doc Neace out of Dacula HS ASAP.

Doc has 26 years of dedicated teaching, 23 at Dacula HS, and he’s never had an unsatisfactory evaluation or sanction or admonishment. In just 2 weeks, one of which was spring break, he has his career ended by a spoiled whining student and his bully parent in collusion with a controlling clueless principal who has systematically dumbed down the academic excellence at our school. I am stunned and embarrased by the action of Principal Donnie Nutt, of Superintendant Alvin Wilbanks, of the adminsitrators of Gwinnett County Public Schools and lastly the School Board. I hope and pray Doc appeals and wins!

By virginia

May 6, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

The point of education is just that education, kudos to “Doc” for trying to keep education in its proper place. Perhaps he could have gone about it in a different manner but as the parent of one of his former students I will tell you up front that the students know from day one what is expected of them and in return they get more than 100% from “Doc”. Yes he is a hard teacher, but he is fair, the students learn and he is willing to give of himself to help any student who asks for his help. The school board should be ashamed of firing this man, discipline maybe, firing NO…as someone else said, look out when election time rolls around again…Thanks to Carole Boyce for standing her ground and behind a wonderful teacher…You can be re elected!!!

By PD

May 6, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

I BELIEVE THE TEACHER IS IN THE RIGHT. WHAT ARE WE TEACHING KIDS? THEY RUN THE SHOW OR ELSE TEACHERS ARE TO BE SUED AND OR FIRED.KIDS NEED TO LEARN TO BEHAVE IN A RESPECTABLE WAY BOTH AT WORK OR SCHOOL OR WHAT HOPE DO WE ADULTS HAVE FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY?

By Joe

May 6, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

I played HS football back in my day and if the coach found out that one of us had our head down on the desk asleep, it would get dealt with at practice or with a nice call to Dad. NEITHER of which was desireable. How about some accountablity on the parents?

By Mike Mills

May 6, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

In our school systems today everyone is wrong but the student,here you have a teacher that is showing a student that there are always consequences for your actions(just as we all have to live by the same rules) and he gets fired,so we now are telling the students that you can do what you want…..and people wonder why are younger generation is going to hell in a handbasket…..they don’t now what it means to “be held accountable”however the silver lining is this…the students that do support him show they come from a home where the parents or parent believes that accountability still does exist!! To the parents of the sleeping student…you don’t care if your son get’s a book education(because you blame the teacher rather than your sleeping son)but it also shows you don’t care if he has character either!!!!

By steve miller

May 6, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Hey Gorkula, “Dacula High is run by a facist regieme of meat-head former athletes, and the Baptist Church down the street that has its grip girmly around the administrators there. The administrators do their best to push their fundamentalist christian ways upon everyone there and discourage uniqueness and any form of differentness among the student body.” Did somebody just get a new thesaurus? What an a**e. That crap leaking out of your mouth is straight from the Democratic playbook, but don’t worry, you won’t be welcome here in Georgia when you decide to grow up. It’s one thing to be inspired about a subject matter, but geesh…….” a facist regime????”…..you mean like North Korea?…..get a grip Dorko. You’d think someone of your obviously superior intellect and insight could include more obnoxious stereotypes about the south and Georgia in one sentence? I’m sure you can. Keep trying…… but then again you graduated from Dacula HS, so there may not be much hope for ya.

By Richie

May 6, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

im not surprised. Teachers know that you cant lower grades based on effort. Meanwhile the kid is now a hero for sleeping. He won and a teacher lost. What he should have done is call the parents and tell them that their child is sleeping.

Maybe the kid would of received discipline. Or how about dropping a book on the kids desk. That will wake him up.

Anyway, there is a teacher fair this weekend. Maybe the teacher will land another job.

Teachers always get the short end of the stick. Low pay and and disrepectful kids.

By righty

May 6, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

Hey Gorkula, “Dacula High is run by a facist regieme of meat-head former athletes, and the Baptist Church down the street that has its grip girmly around the administrators there. The administrators do their best to push their fundamentalist christian ways upon everyone there and discourage uniqueness and any form of differentness among the student body.” Did somebody just get a new thesaurus? What an a**e. That crap leaking out of your mouth is straight from the Democratic playbook, but don’t worry, you won’t be welcome here in Georgia when you decide to grow up. It’s one thing to be inspired about a subject matter, but geesh…….” a facist regime????”…..you mean like North Korea?…..get a grip Dorko. You’d think someone of your obviously superior intellect and insight could include more obnoxious stereotypes about the south and Georgia in one sentence? I’m sure you can. Keep trying…… but then again you graduated from Dacula HS, so there may not be much hope for ya.

By Ron

May 6, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

Semantics is at the core of this issue. Being engaged in class and participating is a learning issue and not a disciplinary issue.

The way this was handled is a classic example of small minds in positions of authority in some of our educational systems, and in legislatures setting the agenda.

The solution can be found in eliminating more administrators so that they do not have time to burden teachers with more meaningless tasks. More learning, more teaching, less administration.

We are the culprits for letting it happen. It didn’t come about overnight.

As a society we need to value education by giving more respect and honor to those doing the teaching. If we honor them with more pay and respect, more of our greatest talent will seek teaching positions.

By Public Schools are out of control

May 6, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

Another prime example of why I work and why my husband works two jobs to pay for private school. Can you say “hello vouchers and goodbye school boards and unions”?

By rick

May 6, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

Student, especially athletes, need to learn to be leaders. It is much better to get a lower grade now and learn a lesson.

The teacher needs to be reinstated and the school board needs to realize that anyone under 18 is a legal child and the Board should always lean in favor of either teachers or parents rather than the underage minor who is supposed to be learning for life ahead.

By JLB

May 6, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Yet another example of how liberal bed-wetters are killing this country. From politics (Clinton lying), to criminal justice (parole convicted killers and child molesters so they can ravage society again), to our professional sports (choke a coach, attack a fan, don’t worry, we’ll still pay you millions), to our government education system (no red ink to grade papers because it makes the kids feel bad; sleep in class, it’s OK), there is absolutely no accountability for one’s actions anymore. And we’re surprised when we see kids constantly break rules and the law. That teacher’s syllabus could have said, “You can sleep in class every single day of the school year except one, May 5, and you will receive an A. However, if you sleep on May 5, you will fail.” You can bet your sweet liberal butt that if one kid slept in class on May 5, there would be a group of weenies saying the kid should not be punished because “he didn’t mean it,” or “that’s too harsh,” or “the teacher has no right to discipline with grades.” If you let a puppie keep crapping in your house, you’ll eventually end up with a house full of crap. Let a child keep getting away with everything, and soon our country will be full of the same thing. My Lord, this is disgusting. Shame on us.

By concerned parent

May 6, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Mr. Steve Miller YOU are the one who needs to grow up. What are you doing here anyway? Mr. Gorka expressed how he felt and you attack him like that? Who’s the Dork? Who’s the moron? Brad don’t worry about this big mouth loser who is probably one of the three involved in this fiasco.

By Brenda

May 6, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

How can lowering a students grade for sleeping in class be a considered disciplinary action? What ever happened to grades for class participation? If the student was asleep he deserved to have his grade lowered because he was not participating in class. Its a shame that the school board would uphold such a foolish policy. And I wonder why no one wants to be a teacher anymore.

By charlie

May 6, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

And they wonder why GA’s test scores rank #52 in the nation??? That’s why I send my kids to a private school. I really can’t afford it $$, but at least they are getting an education.

By Al

May 6, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

No need to worry about this ignorant kid. He’ll wind up going to work for his ignorant father, but even his father will eventually grow tired of yelling at his son, “green side up, green side up!” If he or his father were on my football team, he and his father would wind up with broken legs, and then where’s your future. Recall the school board, fire this panty-waist principle, transfer all students out of the school and cost them hundred’s of thousands of dollars! I hope the parents rally and stop this abuse of tax payer funds. Take back our schools, now! Al

By Joe

May 6, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

If I fall asleep at work, I’d could be fired. School is meant to teach kids what they’ll need to know to function in society, and learning how not to get fired is a pretty important lesson. Why are we not teaching our children that school is important and they should not be sleeping through it? Two observations, if this kid was an “A” student, one failing grade would not force him to miss football and if he weren’t an athlete this would not be a big deal either. Basically what the Dacula school system has done is taught kids to question authority figures when you don’t like the outcome. Sounds like this kid isn’t the only one asleep.

By Allen

May 6, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

The teacher was correct. The school board was WRONG. Participation should be a portion of the students grade in the class. If the student is sleeping then he or she is not participating and therefore the grade should reflect accordlingly.

By Niyoshi

May 6, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

As hard as it is to find good teachers in the public school system, did they have to go that far? Did this teacher already have strikes against him or something? I’m sure if he saw this coming, he would have taken a different course of action against the student. Well there goes another family that may have majors problems in ther life because of the unpredicted vote of the BOARD.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

MLB, You need to go and read the true definition of the word liberal. Me thinks you are a ditto-head…

By stephen titshaw

May 6, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this

Looking at this situation, I think the teacher has overstepped his bounds. Yes, the teacher needs control of his class, and yes, some kids are stubborn and need to learn lessons (not to ‘sleep’ in class, respect the teacher, etc.) but it sounds like there are clear cut rules here, and the teacher in this case didn’t live up to his end and obey the schools’ rules. And from what I understand he got fired for insubordination, which means he directly disobeyed his superiors’ orders. If he would have obeyed the rules as he expects his students to do, I wouldn’t be typing this right now. There are plenty ways for students to be disciplined other than cutting grades. And for you out there that are bringing the ‘athlete’ into this, get over it, because that’s not why he got fired. Although he might have been a ‘nerd’ in school and resented the athlete.

By Jodie

May 6, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

If you agree that it was way out of line for the teacher to give the student a bad grade for sleeping, than I ask why is it okay to fire a teacher for his choice of discpline? Isn’t this a knee jerk reaction? When does two wrongs make a right.

I personally am happy that the teacher discplined him that way. What does anyone learn when they go to detention or do an extra assignment? The bad grade shows the student that if you choose to slide thru school by sleeping, then you will have consequences. Too many times when youth gets into trouble whether in school or with the law, they come and bail them out. Enough is enough.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

People keep saying Mr. Neace broke the rules. Forgive my ignorance, perhaps, but I have a very hard time understanding how the assignment of this grade is considered “discipline.” I realize there is much more to this story than we’ll see in this blog or in news reports, but I am struggling to understand the Gwinnett County Board’s interpretation. This was a cause-and-effect situation. There was a clearly-stated policy that said sleeping in class has a particular consequence. This was stated early, and from what we can gather from the posters to this blog, was by no means a surprise. In fact, I would be surprised if the student and parents in question did not have to sign a syllabus at the beginning of the year, acknowledging that they understood this rule.

Now, had Mr. Neace said to the student, “Because you slept today, I am going to change your last 3 quiz grades,” that would be using grades as discipline. But from what I understand, Mr. Neace considered being awake to be part of the requirements for the particular assignment, and the student did not fulfill that specific requirement. It seems that the “awakeness” component was weighted pretty heavily (was it half-credit, I believe?) But what happened and why it happened seems to me to be pretty straightforward.

Realizing that we weren’t there and don’t (can’t?) know all the details, my sense is that the mitigating factors are: 1. This policy had been in place for what we are finding out was years; 2. The students in the current class seemed well-informed about the policy; and 3. It didn’t seem to be applied arbitrarily – from what we are seeing on this blog, it wasn’t as if kids slept all the time and it was only for this specific student that the rules were suddenly enforced. Given these factors, I can not understand the board’s decision.

The problems of students being held accountable and responsible for their actions are not unique to Gwinnett. I am a high school teacher and have lived in several states, so I can speak first-hand that it is a generational problem. However, in terms of leaning toward student accountability, Gwinnett has very weak policies compared to the placed I’ve been. Nonetheless, I am surprised, disappointed, and to be honest, quite afraid of the precedent this decision sets.

I keep reading on this blog that there have been numerous problems at Dacula. I live in the Dacula cluster and hear the horror stories routinely, from teachers and neighbors whose kids are at the high school. But from the outside looking in, nothing is being done by the County to investigate. This scary and shameful. Does anyone know if Gwinnett County Public Schools is in any way looking into the mess that Dacula has become?

In the meantime, can anyone clear up how Mr. Neace’s policy is considered discipline?

By Jim

May 6, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

1. Gwinnett Cty. teachers do not assess students on their classroom behavior. They assess students on knowledge and understanding of the curriculum. If teachers gave students grades for daily classroom behavior, many of todays students would not make it out of middle school! Discipline for inappropriate behavior…grades for knowledge and performance.
2. He should have followed the instruction of his superiors and we wouldn’t be discussing this matter and he wouldn’t be without a job! It would not have been his decision…it was theirs. Why lose your job over something so small in the grand scheme of things. If he is supposed to be one of Gwinnett’s best…then we are in trouble. I question his personal judgement. Teachers MUST be flexible! Very few teachers dock points for inappropriate classroom behavior.

By Shae

May 6, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

Has anyone had a chance to read this article in the AJC?

Pupil suspended for talking on phone with mother stationed in Iraq..It is on the website under Dacula Doc fired…

Just wondering what you guys think about this. It states that a student was at lunch and was talking on his cell phone to his mom in Iraq. The school suspended him for not getting of the phone with her…

Do you guys think this was fair? Do you think it matters if his mom was in Iraq or not? Should he have hung up on her?

By former parent

May 6, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this

Hats off to Carol Boyce for not bending to pressure

By Frank

May 6, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this

After reading all that has been said, I agree that the actions of the GCSB are wrong. I now hope that this goes before the State board of Education, and we will all see just how dedicated Kathy Cox is to Georgia. They need to ask three simple questions to the GCS, if “Docs” policy has been in exsistance for 10+ years , why just now is it being enforced?, Why was he dismissed because of “insuboardination” if this policy has been in effect and has NEVER been questioned before, and finally, how is this discipline when the grade is for a lab? It appears that Mr. Wilbanks is another administrator that will take any action to make sure sports prevail over and education. The parents of this student should be ashamed of thier actions, he failed to abide by the class rules that I’m sure he knew about and then when the time came, whinned about his grade. I have two kids in high school and I am fully aware of the teachers rules and expectations in ALL of thier classes and the teachers have my signature to prove it. My kids also know that if they get caught breaking any of these rules, THEY pay the price, a failing grade for the day. Why is this “disciplinary action”? Doc was simply holding this student accountable for his actions and responsibilities for the class, and I agree with his statement, he shouldn’t have to wake up students that fall asleep. I agree that this is simply a failure on the Superintendent and Priciples part for not reading Docs policy and questioning it prior to this incident and then back-peddling when a parent of an athlete fails. I can’t wait to see how the Sate handles this one!!!!

By Tom

May 6, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

AS an outsider looking in Gwinnett BOE has made a serious mistake,as good teachers with strong fundamental characteristics are very hard to find. Iam sure the DOC will have no trouble finding a job with another systems were his skills are truly appreciated.The one superstar football star is the only winner here,as the children,and parents of Gwinnett County are all the losers.Congratulations to the BOE for keeping score BOE 1 Children-Parents 0. Remember Gwinnett is Great? Right

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jim, you say that very few teachers dock points for inappropriate classroom behavior. Maybe that’s what is wrong with society.

By Melissa

May 6, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

It is very sad when a teacher gets fired for doing their job… had it benn any other(non-athlete) student the teacher would have been praised. We need good teachers. What is the board thinking…remember no pass no play, I surely do!!!

By Darryl

May 6, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

I agree with what the teacher did. However, rules are rules and he can’t have a classroom rule that violates scool system policy.

By Andrew McCaskill

May 6, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

As a resident of Gwinnett County, I am embarrassed! If this teacher told students at the beginning of the semester that if they slept in class they could lose grade points, clearly the student is at fault. What is shameful is the Gwinnett County Board of Education’s response. It really appears that they seem to favor a football player rather than an experienced and professional teacher. It’s the principal of Dacula who strikes me as the really despicable character in this drama, perhaps its time for him to find a career in politics; education does not seem to be his forte.

Andrew McCaskill Braselton, GA

By Angie

May 6, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

Unreal. This teacher needs to be congratulated for caring more about the student’s future than his parents or the school board. I think this is so sad to think that adults cannot see that what the teacher did was not wrong- especially if those rules were spelled out ahead of time to the students. How can we expect students to have respect for their teachers when we do not let teachers manage their class? I hope Doc Neace sues and wins. The board should be fired!

By Julie

May 6, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

Unbelieveable! The parents of this “sleeping student” should be ashamed of themselves for complaining, first of all. I have 4 kids, two of which are currently students at Dacula Elementary, and I can tell you that homeschooling is quickly becoming a much easier decision than I had originally thought it would be. I’m a graduate of Central Gwinnett, and I recall sleeping kids in my classes there. They made it very annoying in lab activities (which were usually “group” activities, mind you) because it meant that the rest of us were doing all the work for the sleeping kid. This teacher should be honored for his policy — which has been in force for 10 years, I hear? And this idiot principal never had a problem with it before, even though it was spelled out in a syllabus?

By Concerned Parent II

May 6, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

Joe writes: “Basically what the Dacula school system has done is taught kids to question authority figures when you don’t like the outcome.”

I thought one of the purposes of acquiring an education is to gain critical thinking skills and knowledge that will teach you how to analyze policies and ideas that may be outmoded, unjust, etc., and to question those policies if needed. This is what Mr. Neace should have done with his superiors.

Our educational system is slanted towards teaching kids to march lock-step to the same tune, respond unfailingly to authority, and subjugate creativity.

Authority figures are not infallible.

By Robert

May 6, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

Maybe if the Gwinnett County Schools had competent administration that addressed disciplinary problems, even students that sleep at the desk, then teachers wouldn’t feel the need to add that to a grade. Evidently the administration isn’t serious about providing a learning environment in their schools. I’m glad my kids are in another district.

By Kip

May 6, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

Yet another Reason why Private Schools are far superior to Goverment Schools. In Private Schools EDUCATION is the Priority, Not Sports/Athletic Programs and their participants. No wonder Georgia continues to fall behind. Backwards Priorities.

By Marcantonio

May 6, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

WHY IS THIS A PROBLEM????? So a student, a student athlete, was sleeping in class, and got his lab grade(a participation grade) slashed. So wht is this a problem? I’ll tell you why. The student knowingly went to sleep when it was specifically stated in the syllabus that sleeping would not be tolerated. I am a senior in high school and I took chemistry last semester. Had I slept during a lab I would not expect to get a good grade nor would I gripe about it. I’m not some goody-two shoes student and I am not an athlete. And I am strongly against the favoritism of athletes. This teacher has been teaching for 23 years, and I am willing to bet that this is not the first time in recent history that he, or any other teacher, has lowered a grade because some student thought it was o.k. to take a nap. Had I been in the teachers shoes, I would have given him the same grade. Teachers had athority when I was in kindergarten and as I have grown up, I have watched that athority diminish (except for Mary Kate Letorneau, who over-excersised her athority). I have never been to Dacula, nor have I met Doc Neace, and quite frankly the only memory I have of Dacula was when they slaughtered North Hall when I was in sixth grade. If anything, Doc Neace should get a pay raise, his job back, and a pat on the back. I would love to have this man as my role model. I give him my personal congratualtions.

By R. Smith

May 6, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

It’s just another case of athletics being more important to the school system than academics, with a spoiled student crying boo-hoo to mommie and daddy when he/she gets into trouble. I admire Mr. Nease’s approach and think it is rediculous that a teacher with outstanding service to the school system would be fired. What would have happened if the student was an average student, not involved in extracurricular activities of any kind and had the same “disciplinary action” taken against them? Probably not anything!

My recommendation, change the policy, fire the board, and get some more “Doc’s” in there to help shape a better generation.

By diane coles

May 6, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

Having taught school in the SC School System, this is a “Southern” mentality. I had athletes that told me they did not have to take tests, do homework, etc because they were “jocks”. And, one can tell the results of this pampered treatment by the antics performed by so-called professional athletes of today.

By JLB

May 6, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

Hey Robert, I know you’re a big part of the problem in our society — and I despise your ideals because you and your liberal friends make my job of being a RESPONSIBLE parent all that much more difficult. You and your liberal wimp friends believe in no accountability, no personal responsibility, no respect for authority, no recognition of the rules. You probably tell your kids, “Don’t worry about anything, my precious little brat, daddy and the ACLU will take care of you.” God help the rest of us if we offend anyone by grading a paper in red ink, or by making someone be held accountable for their actions (like sleeping in class, or committing rape or murder). Go change your bed sheets, you liberal wuss. I’m sure they’re still soaked from last night.

By Leslie

May 6, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

This incident just gives me more reason not to want to send my kids to public school if I ever have any. As a 31 year old single (never married/no kids), not only do I need to save money for my retirement but I need to save money to send any kids I may have to private school or home schooling.

This is COMPLETELY ridiculous! Congratulations in advance to the school that grabs up this teacher. He sounds like a gem!

-Leslie

By George W. Stockbridge, GA

May 6, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

I lived and worked in Europe for 12 years. They have a first rate educational system. This episode just goes to show why our education system is the “laughing stock of the world”.

By alton bias

May 6, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

if a teacher wants to have class rules, that is that teachers business, and i along with many support that. however, if it is shool policy that you cannot use grades as a form of discipline, you cannot do that. many people do things every day that border on the fence of right and wrong. how many days has a person driven their car over the speed limit, knowing that they were speeding, and when they are pulled over for speeding you ge a ticket. should doc be allowed to make class policies? yes. should the student face the responsibility for sleeping in class? yes. is this a war that you would really want to put your job and lively hood in jeopordy for?

By Pamela Brown

May 6, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

Mr. Neace, as an Educator you have done a terrific job and it shows by the number of students and parents who are supporting you and your decision. My last child is graduating from Washington County High this year, and while he was not a real problem child, there were instances where I had to show my face at school either because he was being disruptive or he felt that school officials were being unfair towards him. I never sided with my child when after investigating, I found that he was in the wrong. By the same token, I never let anyone railroad him when they were giving him a bad rap. I would have been proud to have added you to the list of “good” teachers that my children have had the pleasure of being their student. Though I have never met you, I support you and your decision wholeheartedly. May God richly bless and keep you.

By Jim

May 6, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Jodi, If your daughter makes a 99 on a Final Exam, yet I catch her chewing gum (or sleeping) in my class that day…which is a stated violation of a rule…and I dock her exam 10, 20, 30, 40, or even 50 points (like he did)…how would you feel about that? And what if the teacher’s actions were at the end of the student’s senior year and your daughter’s graduation was at stake? Again, we assess what the student knows. There are other ways to respond to student violation of rules (detentions, etc). I did not say “provide no consequences at all”. The consequences should be appropriated in the correct place.

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

hmmmmmmm….interesting. Found on the Dacula High School website-http://www.daculahighschool.org/subabout.php?catg=cheating%20policy

Believing that the individual worth of the student is important in developing his or her talents and abilities, the faculty of Dacula High School commits itself to helping students achieve academic excellence. Furthermore, the faculty maintains that students who cheat deny themselves the opportunity to develop and enhance these talents and abilities. Consequently, students who cheat will receive a zero on the assignment and will be subject to disciplinary review.

now maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t it sound like the discipline policy for cheating is grade reduction???????

By Brian

May 6, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

I’m a high school teacher myself, and unfortunately I’m not terribly surprised. Disenchanted, yes, but not surprised. Larry Nease’s predicament is very telling. In the ongoing national debate on education, “accountability” is the latest mantra, repeated ad nauseum by those who link the ills of the American classroom to the apparent shortcomings of its teachers. Faced with the very real and daily problem of exhausted students, Mr. Nease implemented an effective countermeasure, a countermeasure that was spelled out in advance and understood by his students and administrators: If you sleep, you get a zero. Little room for misunderstanding and rooted in the spirit of America’s recent cry for school accountability. After all, how does one educate a sleeping student?

Like Mr. Nease, I’m confronted with students who attempt to learn from the ragged edges of exhaustion. Distracted by sports, clubs, activities, chatting, computer games, and an entertainment industry determined to mold mesmerized consumers instead of informed and critical thinkers, academic achievement has become an afterthought for many students.

One hardly needs to mention the faulty logic of Gwinette County’s distinction between academics and behavior. Imagine the student who sleeps every day in third period Chemistry, not just occasionally but every day. Is his teacher barred from failing the student? Where does sleeping fall on the A, B, C, D, F grading scale?

In my seven years of teaching, some persistent questions have repeatedly come to mind: When did we become afraid of holding students to exceedingly high standards? As America begins to define “accountability” for American schools, will our accountability for students be similarly examined and refined? All poignant questions that have undoubtedly occurred to Mr. Nease, and many other of our nation’s teachers for that matter.

By Former Employee

May 6, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

I certainly sympathize with Larry Nance. As a former employee of Gwinnett County I learned after only two years in the system that Gwinnett County is not about education, its not about defending their employees from false and frivolous accusations. It seems to me that the school system is all about image and public relations. How they are portrayed to the public is of utmost importance and they will sacrifice anything and anyone to project a positive image.

Former Employee

By Amy

May 6, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Why was the changing of the grade considered a disciplinary action? A better explanation is that the student got a zero on the first half of the assignment (participation, i.e.staying awake when the assignment is made) and a 100 on the second half (doing the assignment). Those two averaged together give the assignment grade of 50. A perfectly reasonable grade to give.

I feel sorry for all those students who have missed out on having Doc teach their last 2 months of school this year. Here was a clearly caring, dedicated teacher taken down by one parent who should be disciplining his kid for sleeping in class.

Situations like this are one of the reasons we homeschool our three kids.

By Gary

May 6, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

A college prof doesn’t usually care if you sleep, but you can be sure that you won’t get an “A” in his or her class. You know, that “lack of participation” thing? And then there’s that work thing - you can bet if you get caught sleeping on the job, you’ll be the one passed over for promotion, assuming you still have a job. The Gwinnet board’s policy is typical of the kind of pathetic excuse for “discipline” I’ve seen in most of our public schools in this country. Gwinnet’s policy is wrong, because it coddles kids rather than preparing them for real life. Mr. Neace is right on target, and Mr. Nutt knows it - after all, Mr. Neace has had this policy for a decade and the school only disciplined him after he applied it to one of their precious athletes.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

To George,

This is a serious issue with many people having good points to make on both sides of the arguement. However, your point about pointing out that things are better in Europe is a joke. Though things are far from perfect in Gwinnett County, or Georgia or the US Education system we continue to push out smart, creative people that lead the world in almost every field there is to study. The type of debate we are having on this issue is what makes this country great so take your European loving, American Hating attitude back to Europe and hang out with your whimpy, judgemental, hypocritical French friends.

By Daniel Bray

May 6, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

I was very saddened by the verdict. I had Doc back in ‘95, and I have enjoyed watching him inspire other students. We can thank Mr. Knutt who I now refer to as Mr. “Knuttball” for shattering that inspiration and teaching style. I am horrified and angered to see that Dacula still holds athletics higher than academic standards. You do not see non atheletes having their parents going on a tirade about their students falling asleep in class. Knutt, you should be ashamed of yourself. Well Knuttball, I hope that you enjoy your choices as well as being a part of one of the most dangerous schools in Gwinnett County. Someone should take YOU to court over what you are NOT doing to halt the problem. You just contributed to the problem by removing one of the best teachers your school has ever had.

By Mac

May 6, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

There are places where behavior and academic performance overlap (such as failure to turn in work), but this is not one of them. If a kid sleeps, call his parents, assign him detention, refer him to the administration. There are ways to hold him accountable without changing his grade, which is only supposed to show how well he has performed academically. I am sorry all the parties involved were so hard-headed in this instance - it should never have come to this - but the case is clearly not a slam-dunk in the teacher’s favor.

This is not to deny that the school gives preferential treatment to athletes. Maybe it does.

By Chris

May 6, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Here’s another example where the “jocks” rule the school. The teacher should be within his rights to grade on performance if it is so obvious and the act is not constructive for the student and class to learn the subject at hand. I thought the Gwinnett school system was among the best, this proves that wrong.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Good for the school board! It just goes to show you that teachers are “not the rule makers”. Deal with it! He should be put out to pasture just like the rest of these “almighty” individuals. Once these so called “teachers” understand that the world does not revolve around them, when they decide to know their role and shut their mouths, our young people will start getting a decent public education.

By I Wonder

May 6, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

So how much teaching of material could Doc Neace of really been doing if a student can sleep through his entire lecture and still get 100% on the assignment? Maybe the student fell a sleep because the material was so easy that he could actually do it in his sleep?

By Mary Williams

May 6, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

If the School Board had an adequate method of dealing with discipline problems, I could agree with their policy and their treatment of the teacher. Based on my encounters with many young people, I am appalled at the number who face no consequences for their actions. Schools are afraid of being politically incorrect, so they don’t discipline children. Parents bail out the children if they are to receive any discipline. Who is going to bail out these young people when they’re adults? Can’t you just imagine the look on the boss’s face when he/she asks the young employee why they thought sleeping on the job was acceptable? Who is going to “make it all right” when the same young adult is arrested for reckless driving or shoplifting or…..?

By Elizabeth

May 6, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

It is a very sad day in this nation when academics places second in importance to sports in our schools. If this had been a regular student we would have never heard of this incident. The lower mark would have stood. I hope the parents of this student are very proud of themselves and understand they are teaching their child that it is ok not to pay attention in class as long as he knows how to play football.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

By the truth and By I wonder (The cheeky family i presume) Or maybe just Moe and Larry. Where’s curly?

By alton bias

May 6, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

people, when are you going to see what this is really about. this is not about a failing athelete that the teacher refused to pass. nor is this about an administration that says we want all athletes to pass, so forget about education and focus on athletics. why are the masses not seeing that this kid is obviously smart because he is taking one of the hardest classes taught by one of the hardest teachers, and he probably passed the assignment. for this case to come to such a head leads one to speculate that his parents went to the administration and the board and made enough noise that we are at this current point. so before we all crucify this school and school system for not teaching this young man responsibility, remember it will be hard to teach a young man responsibility when all he has to do is run home to mommy and she has enough of a voice to get this man fired.

By Nick

May 6, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

The firing of this distinguished educator is another ramp towards the rapid decline in the quality of education in Gwinnett County. This smacks of another out of control, politically correct school board. Can you say hello Clayton County?

By Deborah

May 6, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

As a tax paying property owner in Gwinnett County, I am outraged that the BOE fired Mr. Neace. I emailed Mr. Wilbanks yesterday telling him I thought it was shameful that a student who sleeps in class has the power to so negatively affect a 20+ year veteran teacher’s career. Obviously, my opinion fell on deaf ears. I can promise you this- I will not forget this incident next time I go vote in a school board election. This student’s bully of a father has done his son and Dacula High a great disservice. And Principal Nutt was wrong to tell Mr. Neace to change the sleeper’s grade. Thank goodness my children got out of the Gwinnett County System relatively unscathed. However if I had it to do over again they would be in a private school or home schooled.

By Philip Herold

May 6, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

As a reformed class-room sleeper, who skipped through highschool learning nothing - I applaud the teacher’s decision. You learn nothing when you sleep, so, that should factor into his subjective appraisal of your grade. It is not as if the young man was working in the cotton milss all night to support his family. Get your priorities in line, or get the garde you recieve.

By V. Vance

May 6, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Don’t we elect the Board Members. I don’t like the message they just sent all the students in Gwinnett County. I will remember this the next election. I was not allowed to sleep in class I had to pay attention in class it is the only way to learn.

By Jim

May 6, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

In addition to my previous 2 posts about disaggreement with the teachers policy, I would like to also state that I do feel the school board was overzealous, stringent, wrong, harsh…and just as “inflexible” as the teacher. They expected him to be flexible with the student, yet they did not model this as his employer. They should have disciplined him in some other manner.

By Bobbie

May 6, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

Am I missing something here? Do the teachers have to submit a syllabus for approval or not? If they do, it seems the Board/Principal should be the ones fired for not doing their jobs. Obviously they have not read it for 10 years. More importantly, I think the jocks’ parents should be called to task for not letting their so called “star” accept responsibility for his own actions. I’ve raised 3 sons thru public school systems, 2 of them played football. I’ve run across teachers who are just booking their retirement and care nothing for teaching…it’s just a job. And let’s not even get into tenure….that’s a whole other fish to fry.. Those teachers like Doc who are actually there to…surprise…TEACH, should not be penalized for doing their job to the best of their ability. Establish rules. Discipline when not followed. Seems simple to me. The teachers are in the “trenches” with a lot of out of control children who’s parents fight their battles. ENOUGH. Yes, it would be wonderful to roll back in time and go to the place where a teacher was actually able to control the classroom. I’m a realist though…those days will just be stories for my grandchildren. I don’t know Doc, but I do hope he wins his lawsuit and takes them all to the cleaners. There should be more schools filled with teachers like him. Then I wouldn’t have to worry that one of these days, one of these sniveling, whining little brats will be president of this country….what a frightful thought!

By Tim Tatem

May 6, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

The teacher is right, and the schoolboard is wrong.

He is the one who needs the flexibility to run his class as he sees fit…not the micro-managing politicians who sit on an incompetent schoolboard.

If the members of this schoolboard were wise enough to support in lieu of firing such teachers…particularly a man who clearly has a backbone and caring heart for his students…then their schools could begin graduating more responsible high schoolers who would read better, write better, and possess a better understanding of the basics of science.

Tim Tatem Savannah, GA

By Kristi

May 6, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

This morning, the school board announced the termination of Larry “Doc” Neace. I have never heard such an uproar before in my life. The school board has made the worst decision ever, because Doc Neace did what he thought was right, and all 200 of us there last night are 100% behind him. He was my teacher three years ago and both of my brother’s teachers over 10 years ago, and no one has ever had a bad thing to say about his policy.

This decision is absolutely ridiculous. Doc Neace is not anyone’s momma. If a student chooses to sleep during his class, or any class, that is their own choice. It is not his responsibility to keep everyone awake, and this student is only upset because he is used to being pampered by football coaches and Mr. Nutt.

The superintendent’s lawyer last night said that sleeping in class is a disciplinary issue, not an academic issue. I don’t know how long it has been since she was in school, but if you are sleeping, your academics and grades are surely going to be affected. Sleeping a class is both a waste of the student’s time and a waste of Doc Neace’s time. If this is supposed to be a “disciplinary” issue, then there are going to be 100 people in the office each and every day for sleeping.

Doc Neace is the only teacher that I have ever had that cares more about what you write and not what color pen you write in. He cares about a student’s education, and if a student does not care about his own education, Doc Neace cannot do anything more. Sleeping in class was the student’s choice, and it is not Doc Neace’s responsibility to wake the student up. The student was aware of this policy the very first day of class, and knew about it when his head was put down.

So they say Dacula High School is Focused on Learning? No, they are Focused on Football. This never would have happened if the 50% was given to anyone else, but the student was, of course, a football player. Doc Neace is not like all other teachers that pamper the starting football players. He is only Focused on Education, and if a student is not focused, their grade will reflect it. It has never been a problem before, so why is it now? Mr. Mason, an assistant principal over the Science department, and Principal Nutt have read Doc Neace’s syllabus each and every semester, so why does this uproar start now?

I, and the hundreds of people that attended Doc Neace’s hearing last night, completely support Doc Neace’s decision and grade, and we have all abided by his policy over the past 10 years. Doc’s policy prepared me for college because professor’s say exactly the same thing: if you waste time, your grade reflects it. The student deserves the grade he received, and Doc Neace deserves his job back. “Forget the whales… Save Doc Neace!”

                                Kristi Cape

By Rena P

May 6, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Hopefully this kid will get a contract with an NFL team. From the sounds of it, he’s not going to get anywhere if he counts on his intellect. As a parent its appalling to me that these parents would not make this kid get what he deserves for the decision he made to sleep in class. They shouldn’t be surprised when deadbeat ends up on their couch for the next 30 years.

By Heywood

May 6, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

Yes America, let’s continue to dumb down the educational system by encouraging mediocrity in students and penalizing teachers. When little Johnnie is too stupid to read his own football contract, don’t blame the teachers who tried, blame the idiots on the school boards who make it impossible to attract qualified teachers to keep little Johnnie from being an idiot.

By Gary Haigh

May 6, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

It was with sweet irony I read the following statement on the Dacula HS site. It is the principal’s message: Principal’s Office

Dacula High School is a unique school with rich traditions and deep community roots. Dacula schools date back to 1892 when all students were housed in the same building. In 1974 Dacula High School became a separate entity. No matter how large our student population grows, we try to keep that “Hometown” atmosphere.

Our motto is “Focused on Learning.” Our goal is to provide a world class education for all students. We have a fantastic staff committed to continuous improvement and to serving the needs of all students. We continue to challenge our students with a rigorous curriculum. As a result, we have seen record numbers of students taking Advanced Placement, Gifted and Honors courses. Another factor in student success is parental and community involvement. We are fortunate to have both community support and parents willing to help. Our most successful students are involved in activities outside of the classroom. We encourage all students to get involved in extra-curricular activities and community service. Most students participate in clubs, student organizations, athletics, fine arts programs or student government. Many devote untold hours to community service through activities such as “Hands Together Dacula.” In addition, students must feel safe and secure to perform at their best. We do not tolerate disruptions to our learning environment. We continually review our safety and security plans to make sure our students are given the best opportunity to be successful.

In closing, I am very proud to be the Principal of Dacula High School where expectations are high and where all students are expected to be successful.

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

In response to By the Truth, I bet you are either a parent of an athlete or the Cheek Family member. What gives an athelete the right to have special previlages? None of this came to light until it was an PRECIOUS athlete that recieved half a grade. In ten years there had to be other students that had a grade lowered for not following class rules. You should be proud that the kids coming out of our school will not be able to hold down a good job or be a respectible member of society since MOMMY, DADDY and of course MR. NUTT took them by the hand all through school. Let’s see how things go at the next board member election. I personally would love to see a student/parent demonstration Monday at the school.

By LMP

May 6, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

This makes me sick that a teacher would get fired from a position that he’s held for approx. 10 years and has used the same type of discipline for the same amount of time, and the student gets nothing?? It really bothers me when I think about the future of our country, and children that are coming up now have no form of discipline or no sense of respect.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

You guys just don’t get it. The teacher has a ethical obligation to understand and FOLLOW the local school board policy. End of discussion. When a teacher fails to follow school board policy its called insubordination. I can bet that in the private sector, if you fail to follow the CEO’s or your boss’s directive, you will be fired. This so called educator is to arrogant to see this, so he got what he deserved!

By Bill

May 6, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

I hear so many people complaining about a school system that would fire a teacher who would dare to punish a student for sleeping in his class,…but tomorrow, you’ll wake up and set your children out on the curb before the sun comes up and ship them off to the same government indoctrination centers. You distrust government, yet you send your most valued posessions off to them and expect them to educate him or her. They tell you what they will teach them. They tell you where they will go to be taught,…and when something like this happen, they know there will be no reprecussions. If you are truely outraged, take your kids out, put them in a private school of YOUR choice. If you have the ability, home school them. Then, support candidates who support the notion of the government giving BACK to you a portion of the money they TAKE from you in the name of government education so YOU can better serve YOUR chidren’s educational needs. Or just continue the status quo and sit there and be quiet….because it’s not going to change.

By a former parent

May 6, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

I am so glad the truth about that teacher has finally come out. The people responding to this incident do not really know Doc Nease or the trouble he has caused other students he just so happens not to like. This has nothing to do with football and everything to do with a teacher that can’t follow the rules. I’m glad the principal chose to do the right thing.

By Charlie Miller

May 6, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

I am so tired of seeing “athletes” in both Georgia’s high schools and colleges being given a free ride.

If the kid was asleep, he did not deserve a good grade. It’s pretty simple. Instead, to protect its athletes, the school has fired a veteran teacher who appears to be very well-liked among his students. It just shows that, when it all comes down to it, athletics and money come before students. Not just in Dacula, but almost everywhere. Sad.

By a former parent

May 6, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

you are blocking comments that are not offensive. I just stated I was glad that bad teacher is finally gone.

By Cato

May 6, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

This is exactly what is wrong with public schools today. Years ago, we had a situtation where a popular band director was almost fired when he was ordered to award band letters to students who had taken a trip to Russia, but were absent from activities that would have earned them a band letter. The superintendent said that the students, “shouldn’t be punished for going on the trip.” The problem was that the Band Boosters were responsible for setting the criteria and making the awards and were a separately chartered organization. Over two hundred people showed up for the next school board meeting to let the board know that they didn’t appreciate the board getting in their business. The sad thing is that the band director was required to give the students “fascimile” awards from another source. The good thing is that two school board members that supported the firing were soundly defeated in the next election. Voting does make a difference.

This teacher is obviously from the old school where education was earned not a right. No one had questioned his policy for 10 years, even when it had happened to other students. I bet it would not have been challenged yet except this was a football player, whose eligibility to play football must be kept regardless of the rules. (Sounds like a UGA story.)

If it was left up to me, all my children would be in private education, period.

By Teacher of 32 years

May 6, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

One word describes the board members who voted to fire this dedicated, respected and effective teacher. That word is: IDIOTS.

By 2amazu

May 6, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

When an athlete winds up not being able to read after his football career is over, then you will wish the teacher made him wake up during class. It is asinine that athletics take precedence over an education in the southern schools. Thank God I was educated overseas! By the way, the parents need their behinds kicked for not making that child take responsibility for his actions. His actions caused his grade.

By Jeff Brooks

May 6, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

I hope another school system is fortunate enough to hire this teacher as quickly as possible.

If the news report is true, it appears that the grade was cut on a single homework project.

When we were in school (familiar refrain) teachers did NOT have to justify their actions. You learned the subject material AND the teacher. Fairness differed from class to class and teacher to teacher, but you always understood accountability.

A teacher may make a decision to enforce their rule differently from one situation to the next - from one student to the other. However, in the classroom, students understand the rules if the teacher is good.

He laid out his rules at the beginning of the year, and he exercise appropriate discretion.

Shame on the school board.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

By the truth: yea, we get it all right. You have to get your way no matter what like always. Way to go barry

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

In response to By the Truth. I take it you were an athlete at Dacula based on your spelling. Way to go.

By Beth

May 6, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

For the record, I am a former student of Doc’s and was present at last night’s hearing. There are a few points that I think should be made. First, the assignment (as it was presented in the hearing) was an exercise on sonar mapping that was to be worked on for the remainder of the class. I submit to you that by sleeping the student did not follow the assignment, which is then an academic issue. This is converse to the superintendent’s argument that sleeping in class is a disciple issue for which grades cannot be penalized. However, this clearly is an issue of not completing the assignment as it was given. Second, let’s focus on what is considered disciple issues. As we were made aware last night, nowhere in the codes and policies of the School Board does it state what constitutes a discipline issue versus any other type of issue. If teachers are not to interpret what the policy means, then should not the policy clearly state what is disciplinary and what is not? Third, Doc possibly faced a much worse fate had he changed the student’s grade following the principal’s instruction. His teaching certificate might have been revoked. There is a separate entity that oversees teachers’ certificates and it has a separate code. Changing a student’s grade is a violation of this code and can be punishable by the loss of certification. Fourth, the administration improperly handled the situation and created a much bigger problem. At the initial meeting between Doc, the principal, assistant principal and the father of the student; school administration did nothing while the father cursed and berated Doc. The principal testified that he only became involved when he felt he should “deescalate” the conversation and that he’d been shocked that Doc had allowed the student to continue sleeping in class. Should not the principal have met with Doc prior to this meeting that included the parent? Would it not have been appropriate for the principal to have complete knowledge of the situation before bringing an irate parent into it? Furthermore, it is unethical as a superior to allow a subordinate to be subjected to such treatment. Especially unethical to then expect the thus abused teacher to not be upset. Finally, the principal focused on the fact that Gwinnett does not allow sleeping in class and that Doc disregarded that policy. How, Principal Nutts? Do you lay out in your handbook the proper way for a teacher to prevent students from sleeping? Could it not be argued that Doc’s policy is a disincentive for sleeping and therefore follows this policy of the Gwinnett County Public Schools?

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

For The Truth, YOU just don’t get it. I recently posted that Dacula High School has listed on it’s website that the policy for a student found to be cheating is that they will receive a zero. That is using grade reduction for disciplinary purposes, pure and simple. check it out. http://www.daculahighschool.org/subabout.php?catg=cheating%20policy

By Bob

May 6, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

The teacher should not have been fired because he lowered the grade of a students lab work by 50%. Judges in our criminal courts have handed out innovative forms of punishment all the time and its accepted and in many cases applauded. This is an innovative form of punishment that is not harsh and certainly not catastrophic. There is something wrong here - a students connections are so powerful that his complaint could be taken so serious that a teacher could be fired for not rescinding the grade reduction is not right. A higher authority should look into this matter.

By Scott

May 6, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

For the school system that procalims itself the best in the State, this situation obviously explains why Georgia ranks 49 in the country in education.
I have yet to find one person in the Dacula community who supports firing this teacher. Rather the community has know for sometime that the principal is ineffective and is intimidated by the athletic director.
If I was the parent of this student, I would be ashamed. Instead of complaining about the teacher, these individuals need to address their child and his actions. Bad grades for not participating (sleeping)in class is not a disciplinary action but a result of lack of work performance. It is unfortunate that our school system seems to be incapable of instilling work values in our students but rather supports excuses for lack of performance. It is time I remove my child from the Gwinnett public school system and consider private school for my child.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

I have children that attend Dacula High and they are very upset by how this one student’s preferential treatment. My oldest daughter that graduated in 2000 had Doc and is very upset by his treatment. She said he was a great teacher and everyone knew to pay attention. He has done what lots of teachers do and include his policy in his syllabus. Students are aware of the consequences of their actions (or lack of participation). How can students learn by sleeping? This particular student has always had it easy because he is so good in sports. What happened to the old days when if you didn’t keep your grades up, you couldn’t participate in sports? Academics were the focus, not the sports. Sports were the priviledge of doing well in school; not causing chaos. Students are required to dress out in PE; does that mean parents can go and appeal their children’s grades that are lowered because of that rule? This is clearly a case of preferential treatment of the student. Dacula High School is not the school it was. It is very sad and disappointing.

By Derwood

May 6, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

And people wonder what is wrong with our educational system. Just another event showing athetics over academics. If I were personel directory of a school system, Doc would have contract offer today.

By alton bias

May 6, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

chris and swan have hit it on the head. there is more to it than one grade here. many people do not wish to be any part of a litigation process, so what makes us think this school and school system wants to go to court after terminating a man because he did not change one grade? also, i am a coach. if you coach at a school that year in and year out is winning a state championship, or if you have some 6’7” stud athlete, you may doctor some grades. this whole athletes are stupid thus we pass them is a little over the top. what about all those athletes that are on the other end of the spectrum. they are picked on by teachers or give low grades because the teacher merely hates extra-curricular activities or hates that coach.

By Suzanne Oliver

May 6, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

Jennifer, I think you’ve put it very well. It’s hard to argue with the “participation grade” and “work ethic”. What I want to know is, if following the rules (or not) is the Administration’s argument, why didn’t they follow their own rules and call him on his policy a decade ago???

I am disgusted that we are losing another good teacher period. For what? So students can sleep in class. This is the really the way for us to meet CRCT Testing, to improve GA’s scores, to become good citizens…shouldn’t this student be kicked off of the almighty football team instead? This man and his family are going without pay, without a living. That young man ought to be ashamed of himself.

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Jim, To answer your question, if my child fell asleep during a final exam, you better believe I’d expect his grade to be docked. Just as my grade was docked plenty of times throughout college for skipping class. Did I graduate with a 95 in a business law class? No, because I cut class constantly, and only got an 80. Did I complain? No! Because I knew that if I skipped class it would affect my overall grade. Did I ace all of the exams? Yes I did, but that didn’t necessarily earn me the right to a 95. My child knows there are consequences to his actions, and if he wants to act up in class, he better be prepared to accept those consequences. Just like I was when I was in school.

By Deloris

May 6, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

I have been in the educational system for 27 years. With this act of stupidity of the local school board, I hope you parents of children who want to learn rules, regulations, and studies realize what is wrong with our school system. We teachers run into this all the time, give athletes the benefit of the doubt. I taught high school math, from remedical studies to statistics at private school. It folded and becuase I was not a coach, I could not even get an interview. I am now teaching fifth grade. Yes, sports first, science, english, math, history second.

By Suzanne Oliver

May 6, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Kip - I agree!

By MJ

May 6, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Alton Bias - What??

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Again, you critique my spelling in a blog and hide from the evident truth in this story. He broke school board policy, he received his punishment. End of story. BTW, so what if I was a athlete in school? Is my opinion not valid for that reason? And for the record, perhaps this is the first time that a CONCERNED PARENT actually stood up to this bully! Perhaps in the past 20+ years no other parent cared or challenged this rule. He would have remained in the confines ofthe teaching arena IF he would have followed school board policy, and not his own.

By John McClellan

May 6, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

The teacher should immediately be reinstated. The teacher lowered the grade because the student chose not to participate and therefore chose not to do assigned work. It is no different than giving a student who does not turn in work or who does not answer questions on a test a zero. It is a grading measure by the teacher and not a disciplinary tool. The administrator who made the inane decision should be the person suspended or fired.

By George Mena

May 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Let me get this straight: a school board is firing a physics teacher because a student was sleeping in his class and he gave him a lower grade for his inattention in class.

Seems to me the school board needs to be fired. Also seems to me that the policy needs to be changed. And finally, it also seems to me that the kid should be flunked, and made to take the class over again after he’s tested for drugs to make sure he’s clean! Sleeping in class ALWAYS has to be unacceptable! Nobody can pass a final exam if they’re allowed to sleep through the entire semester!

By Suzanne Oliver

May 6, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Dot Richard, The more I read about this, the more riled up I get. More power to him!

By Dreez

May 6, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Out of curiosity, when will the recall efforts begin?

By Meg

May 6, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

If classroom participation counts for part of your grade, then sleeping in class should lower your grade.

By GC

May 6, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

I don’t personally have a problem with Doc’s policy, but he cannot substitute his own rules for written school board policy. Like it or not, the board’s policies are the law of the system so long as it doesn’t contradict state or federal law. Not agreeing with a rule is fine, but you defy it at your own peril.

If he defied his principal and school policy, he was insubordinate, period. If he did it repeatedly and stayed defiant (which is the relevant question), they had little choice. I think that his policy was a great idea and would like to use it myself, but I don’t run my school system and have to obey their rules.

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Hello former parent, Were you at the hearing last night that was packed with hundreds of Doc Neace’s present and former students, and parents? You could have been the lone supporter for the Superintendent, except of course for the school board and the GCPS admin. folks. Specifically, what trouble did Doc cause to other students? I bet the trouble was that Doc required them to study and learn in his classes…

By Becky

May 6, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

So the School Officials say “grades aren’t to be used as a disciplinary measure” give me a break. The student knew the teacher’s rules beforehand yet chose to sleep anyway. The student deserved the lower grade and KUDOS to the teacher for standing up for what he believes in. He should not have been let go. With two children in the public school system, I wish we had more teachers like him!!!

By Nichole

May 6, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Well we all know what is important in the school system today! Football

Do you/we not go to school to learn so that we could do something with our further. What are we teaching the youth of the world if we just sit back and watch a child get good grades because he/she is an athlete? What we are teaching is that the only thing that matters is that if you are good at sports then everything will be handed to you as long as your an athlete. I think “Doc” did not do anything wrong. Discipline is not wrong!!!

I my opinion Children should not be in sports if he/she can not keep his eyes open in class!

By gapeach1

May 6, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

I would like to comment on the student that was suspended for speaking to his mother…shame on the school for suspending this young man for not hanging up on her…it was during lunch not while he was taking a test in class…his mother is serving her country and had to leave her child to do so, the least they can do is let them have a conversation….this is just a sad day…the school should allow him to finish school and stop being so Nasty!!!!

By Greg

May 6, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

Terri Knight..

Your post about cheating and receiving a zero is mute because this student did not cheat.

Im most states, if you cheat you receive a zero. I think we all get that point.

Again you are comparing apples to oranges.

Greg

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

In response to By the Truth. You being an athlete just proved my point, you still are intitled to your opinion. By chance what do you now do for a living? You could be a Pro Mr. Nutt spokesperson. Athlete’s should be trated the same as an other student. NO EXCEPTIONS. Do you have a child at Dacula now? I DO!

By Shannon Diddell

May 6, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Government school at its best! We are raising the weakest generation EVER.

Fire the entire School Board of Gwinnett County.

Cudos to Mr Neace!!!!

By Judy H.

May 6, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

The teacher IS TEACHING THE CHILDREN that your behavior does have concequences in the real world. In the REAL WORLD which the school SHOULD BE PREPARING OUR CHILDREN FOR, ANYONE would be fired if found sleeping on almost any job out there in America. Bravo to the teacher for standing up to wrong policies and rules.

By Pedro Jaime

May 6, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

I appreciate the Dacula / Gwinnett authorities for letting me know that I should look elsewhere to practice my craft of teaching. No wonder males are not attracted to the system - white this example so poorly handled, I can see why teaching is losing priority and education in the state is declining. Keep up the great job!!

By former parent

May 6, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Ms. armsby i think u misread my post i was answering by the truth. i said we got it and that i knew it was barry

By Becky

May 6, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

WHO IS OUR SCHOOL BOARD??? MAKE NOTE OF THEM SO THEY ARE NOT RE-ELECTED.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

Ms. armsby i think u misread my post i was answering by the truth. i said we got it and that i knew it was barry im on ur side

By GW

May 6, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

I have no idea if this matter had anything to do with football, I wasn’t there. If it does, who can blame Nutt. When he played for Dacula in the midddle 70s they had one of the worst teams in the state. Maybe he’s trying to avoid a repeat scenario at the expense of whomever gets in his way.

By Steve

May 6, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

The entire Gwinnett board and the principal of the school should be fired, IMMEDIATELY. The student in question should be expelled from the school. The parents of the student should have restraining orders against them keeping them from any Gwinnett schools. Most of all, the teacher should be re-hired, with a raise and a contract for the rest of his career. PERIOD. And football should be given second class status over all other activities including band, chorus, orchestra and all education programs.

By Bill

May 6, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

All those parent show up in support of the teacher and look what happened. Kind of makes it clear who is in charge of the children’s education and who has absolutely no voice and no control of THEIR kid’s education.

By craig

May 6, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

And we wonder why we are so low on school scoring in the world. We tell teachers to teach and teach all of it. Not just the book learning but the ways of life. Is sleeping in school the way to life? The student deserves to have a poor grade and the teacher deserves a medal. I will never stop in that city again to purchase anything.

By Mom of 3

May 6, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

The school board is wrong! No wonder teachers have little control of their students, they have no support from the board or parents.

By Mary

May 6, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

Mr. Neace is trying to punish the student for doing what he himself did: disobey the rules.

As an education professional, Mr. Neace could have looked for a job in a school system where he could lower grades as discipline for classroom behavior (science teachers are in high demand), or he could have constantly urged the Board to change its policy.

Whether it is appropriate to change the grade on a paper as punishment for sleeping in class is an issue. A student who is falling asleep for no good reason should certainly be punished, but the punishment should fit the crime: a zero for class participation, for example.

Another issue is why the student is sleeping. Some students may be indifferent or spoiled, but other students may be pressured by family concerns, and some students might even be working to help support their families. Underlying family issues might need to be addressed with a school counselor.

By a concerned parent

May 6, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

Why is anybody reading this? AJC will only allow people on one side to print. My comments are blocked and free speech is blocked on this site. People responding to this do not know this school or this teacher. Believe me, a great service has been done and that principal deserves a raise! A grade is earned, conduct is separate. That is the rule for everybody else and should be for this teacher as well

By Julie

May 6, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

To Craig:

The city of “Dacula” has nothing to do with the decisions of 4 out of 5 schoolboard members. The schoolboard member who actually represents Dacula schools voted AGAINST firing the teacher. She was the ONLY member to do that.

By Becky

May 6, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

To Steve, Unfortunately we can’t fire the board, we were the ones that elected them. Let that be a lesson to us!

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Get off your high horse, move out of your 300,000 dollar houses in Dacula and move if you don’t like the school’s decision. They CLEARLY made the right decision to rid themselves of a insubordinate educator. He BROKE board POLICY. He is supposed to be a “model” for his students. He is supposed to show them right from wrong. Did he make rules? Does he FORCE his students to FOLLOW his rules? Of course!! So what does the school board do? It makes rules, it FORCES the employees to FOLLOW those rules or be subject to termination!! Whats the difference?

By Bud

May 6, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Seems like the founding fathers of Dacula is more interested in sports then they are in the education of the people who some day may pay their salaries. I love sports but I love education more. I’m with Craig, I’ll never stop in Dacula again.

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Hello ‘The Truth’ The truth is Nutt wanted Doc out, the opportunity was ripe, and he fast-tracked Doc to the head office with the ‘resign or be terminated ultimatum.’ No statements were taken from Doc, no polite communication or professionalism was demonstrated by Nutt, and the school board clearly didn’t want to rock Wilbanks’ boat of adhering to the ‘letter of the law’ of an unclear policy on discipline. That’s the truth.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know if this kid had an underlying reason as to why he may have fell asleep in class?

It seems that people are of the notion that he just plain said, “The heck with this class its nappy time”.

Do we know if this kid has routinely been a good student or a student known for snoozing daily?

Outside of these unknowns, the student should have received another form of punishment.

Mr. Neace should not be allowed to make up his own rules that are in direct stark contrast to the BOE’s policies.

He broke the rules. He told the board he would not comply with its rules and got fired.

He did not get fired because student athletes get preferential treatment.

If parents think this is going on, and the teachers know its going on then as a group you should address this to whatever governing branch that oversees the educational system in the state.

Teachers can not simply take it upon themselves to do what they want. No one can if it flies in the face of set rules.

I would support any teacher who wanted to make changes to the system, but you must do it the right way.

Mr. Neace did it his way and he found his way to the front door and had it closed in his face.

Like it or not he was wrong.

Greg

By Bill

May 6, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

I played soccer at Norcoss High in the early ’80s. I fell asleep in class one day. The next time I showed up at proactice Coach Westmoreland ran my butt off because he was told about it. My grade suffered because of it, and when my dad found out, I had hell to pay for it. Now, parents cry like little babies to the school board because their little angel was punished. We do live in different times, don’t we.

By jason pritchett

May 6, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

The ENTIRE issue comes to this: (1)You Cannot use a grade to discipline a student. (2)NOwhere in the GCPS rules, or in the DHS handbook is sleeping in class defined as a “discipline” issue. (4)Due to this lack in definition, Doc creates a “no wasting of class time” policy, where your PARTICIPATION is part of the grade that you turn in. (3)Semi-intendant Wilbanks practically Ranted on the witness stand that any teacher that “allows” a student to sleep in class, is no teacher at all. Therefore, for the last 10 years, Larry Neace has very seriously tried to prevent students from doing so. How much more serious about not sleeping can you be, than to say to a student: “This will affect your grade?” Finally, If the Schoool Board would clearly define it’s Policy, that “sleeping is a discipline issue” Then Doc would change the grade. That’s all they had to do! The “moderator”, if you will, got so far as to ask: “If you were told that sleeping is a discipline issue, would you comply?” Doc answered: “Yes, I would ethically have to, because Policy clearly states that grading as a disciplinary measure is Forbidden.” It is also forbidden by the P.F.C., so he would no longer be in jeopardy of loosing his State License. Cass Closed, All Happy. Then the assinign Board prooved Once-and-for-all, that an intelligent resolution was not what they wanted: They yanked the carrot from in front of Doc, by rephrasing the question, leaving out their responsibility of clarifying their policy: “Will you change the grade?”
“Yes, If…” “No, no ‘if. Yes, or No.” “Then, ‘No, because I could loose my state license.” This is what the prosecuting attorney harped on in her closing argument, that “He still refuses, after all this, to comply; In front of the SOLE determiners of his fate.”

Jason

By todd

May 6, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this

I was a public school educator for 15 years. It is discouraging to see “political correctness” win out over common sense ….again! I hope this student is a phenomenal athelete, because he’ll never make it in the real world. He should be thanking this teacher for caring if he actually learned something …and we wonder why “Johnny can’t read.”

By Hank

May 6, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Then are we to assume that Mr. Neace is lieing when he say’s he has been giving the same punishment over the last decade? He can’t be a bad teacher and a liar, can he?

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

If you really care about this issue go to www.gwinnett.k12.ga.us click on board of ed - where contact numbers are listed and flood these members with calls!!! You are THEIR boss! Stop ranting on a blog and make a real difference! Politicians thrive on a immediate gratification society - they know what they do during their term will not be rememberred six months down the line - and they’ll get re-elected do to voter apathy. They’ll only toe-the-line the month prior to the election with the same old slogans and sound bites about “doing what’s best for Gwinnett” Look at General Joe Redden in Cobb and his dictatorship - completely ignoring the fact that most Cobb voters didn’t vote for a splost for a laptop initiative - but he is going to ram it down their throats anyway. These schoolboards should reflect the values and desires of the taxpayers, not run their own agendas without consequence while wasting our money. Call them- let them know they will be on their way out - and for God’s sake FOLLOW THROUGH come election time - or it will be another case of a behavior without consequence.

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Move out of $300k dollar house? Not an acurate average. If you would like to tell me which trailer on Harbins you live in I would be glad to stop by and discuss this. Why should I uproot my family because a school is allowing GOOD teachers to be let go because a Cry Baby FOOTBALL player got in trouble!

By Linda

May 6, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

The student whom “appeared” to be sleeping received an extreme form of punishment by having his/her grade cut in half…. “Doc” who unquestionably failed to follow rules received an extreme punishment too. What goes around comes around “Doc” !

By David Smith

May 6, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

If the teacher knowingly violated school board policy, then it is their right to terminate him. I once had a teacher give me a “C” rather than a “B” that I earned. When I questioned her, she replied that I had not worked “hard enough” and should have made an “A” and was giving me the “C” because of that. Teachers have no right to implemment their own personal agendas. What gives a school teacher the right to do as they please?

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

How many years has Doc Neace provided a syllabus to his students? Wouldn’t the syllabus that outlines his class instruction and policies have to be approved by the department heads, principal, or board?

By mouse

May 6, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

what’s interesting is why is the school system ENFORCING this rule, with such a harsh penalty? That the school system is so inflexible with any little rule, is what their decision is glaringly saying.

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Greg, my point is most certainly not mute. From the ajc article -“School officials said the issue was not that a student fell asleep in class. Instead, they said, Neace refused to abide by a school district policy that says, “Grading is not to be used for discipline purposes.”

By allowing a grade reduction for cheating the Dacula High School principal set a standard for discipline. If the teacher is guilty of going against board policy then the principal in charge is as well. The BOE did not state that there were any apples or oranges in their policy. There are no “cheaters are worse than sleepers” clause.It was simply that it should not be done.

By Bill

May 6, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Extreme punishment? PUH-leeze,…he had ONE overnight grade cut in half for sleeping in class. It’s not like he cut his overall grade in half. Let’s keep this in the relm of reality folks!

By C.R.H.

May 6, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

If I slept at my job (a teacher)I would be FIRED. Even if my students had a worksheet to help them “learn” while I catch up on sleep that I haven’t been able to get while I take care of the many other responsibilities I have as an adult. So the idea of why this kid was sleeping is a load of crap. A 20+ year veteran teacher (in PHYSICS no less)…he has probably already received offers from other schools as we read this blog! Wouldn’t it be funny if this little napper got booed off the stage at graduation while he received his ill-gotten diploma?

By JB

May 6, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

Ridiculous, government schools. He should be commended for what he did.

By Jim

May 6, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

Jodi, I really do appreciate where you are coming from. I think students should be held accountable. I fear that if we open up the gradebooks for all teachers to use as a form of punishment…then we are opening up PANDORA’S BOX! Trust me…I teach…and there are many teahers who DO NOT LIKE CHILDREN! They will use it as a method for vindictive retribution…against the student or even the parent of the student…whom they do not like!! There would need to be a county standard which was followed by all teachers. You ended up with B’s in your classes. This was a case (I assume)…of a student possibly failing due to falling asleep in class. And apparently the teacher does not wake the students when they sleep (according to the AJC article). How much does he really care if they receive his instruction if he allows them to sleep? I have never let a student “starting to go to sleep”…remain in that state. That’s teacher apathy. The teacher is responsible for engaging the student to do what he/she is supposed to be doing in class…even if he/she needs to we awakened! Hold the student accountable…YES…BY WAKING HIM UP!!!

By Greg

May 6, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

The board was harsh because it sounds like Neace was being defiant and sarcastic at the meeting.

He told them he would not comply with the established guidelines.

He could have eaten crow and lived to make changes but he tried to be a tough guy in front of the crowd.

Thats never a good idea in a meeting as serious as this one.

Greg

By George Mena, Fremont, CA

May 6, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

You guys want to clean up Gwinnett County schools? Forward this article to the US Department of Education’s office of Elementary and Secondary Education, and let the Feds know what kind of horse droppings can be found on the Gwinnett County School Board, so they can be REMOVED PERMANENTLY!!!

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

To Rhonda: there you go, your trying to start a fight with simple verbal “jabs”. A trailer? I don’t think so, and even if I did, does that make me a bad person because I can’t afford a “300k” house? Do you hate lower middle class and the poor that much that you would try and degrade someone in public? Or are you just a typical Liberal Baptist?

Grow up Rhonda…one day one of your precious babies might live in a trailer. Then how are you gonna act? Won’t you be the envy of the little old women in the Baptist quilting bee

By Frank measel

May 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

This does not surprise me at all that Dr. Nance was fired by Gwinnett County. As a former teacher in the system I know full well that football takes precedence over academics. It also happened at Duluth High School. The boosters run the school not the school system.

By Brock

May 6, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

I can’t stand going to this school anymore…I can’t look at Mr. Mason or Mr. Nutt without wanting to yell at them. They make me so angry that they said the things they did about Doc Neace. I know there WILL be petitions going around to get rid of Mr. Nutt and Mr. Maloof. Getting rid of them is the only way to return this school to a place to LEARN about ACEDEMICS and NOT ATHLETICS. The Gwinnett County shoulc have taken into account that Doc’s policy has been in place for 10-years. His policy has been used and worked well. NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED UNTIL SOME STUCK UP FOOTBALL PLAYER’S DADDY DECIDED TO WHINE ABOUT IT!

Brock Baker (CELL): 770-596-2349

By Wendy

May 6, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

“I don’t want my child going to a school where there is a different set of rules in every classroom”

Then things must have changed since I graduated in HS in 1994. There are general school rules, of course, but every classroom had different rules! Teachers’ personalities are different, subjects are different, therefore the rules are different from class to class. Heaven forbid the students actually READ THE SYLLABUS so that they may know the rules for that classroom.

The crime and punishment sound clear in this case - it’s not as though the teacher changing grades on a whim, or that it was personal. As long as the rules in his classroom are clear and consistent, I’ve got no problems the teacher’s actions.

Technically, his policy is at odds with Gwinnett Co BOE. But the administration of the HS is also at fault if Doc’s rules have been public knowledge for 10 years. Ironic that Doc was fired for teaching students that there are consequences to breaking the rules.

No wonder I didn’t last as a teacher…

By Teresa

May 6, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

When sleeping in class is condoned by the Board of Education, no wonder students today have no respect for teachers and the education system. Wake up Georgia Board of Eduction…you are also sleeping on the job.

By KRH

May 6, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

J Alvin Wilbanks Superintendent Office (770) 513-6601

Sorry don’t have the email address but if you have it please post it. Call and leave a message to let Mr. Wilbanks with his secretary. Let her/him know we expect Doc Neace to be re-instated at Dacula if you live in the area.

It’s your choice - if you want to make a change you have to make the stand or they will just keep cramming this down your throats. Don’t just complain about it - complaining never changed anything but positive action has. He/they may or may not listen to you but we have the power come election time. The number came from the GCPS site ( http://www.gwinnett.k12.ga.us/#&0-Administration ) if you want to verify.

Also Doc Neace will appeal this. He’s given 23 years to this community and the support here shows how respected this man is. It’s time to circle the wagons and give him our support.

By Susan R

May 6, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

This is the kind of respect a teacher with decades of experience gets. After making billions of decisions day after day, year after year, he is treated like a temporary worker in a fast food joint once his “boss” doesn’t agree with one decision. Do you tell your doctor what to do? How about your airplane pilot? or the engineer or the architect or the army general? Well, to this fellow teacher, I say “hats off to you and may God bless you in whatever you do.”

By Vickie Green

May 6, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

I admire the teacher for standing his ground! There are many athletes who can’t read or write because they are given special treatment! (anyone remember John Rocker??) Some other action could have been taken other than firing a teacher with so much experience. Parents will wonder why when Georgia finishes in 50th place again this year on test scores. This teacher will be a benefit to some other school! The students parents should have punished the student for falling asleep and showing no respect for the teacher. I can only imagine how much respect he has for his parents!

By Mother of four

May 6, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

Wow! The public school system strikes again, all in the name of a GAME. Just a few years back Fulton County tried to pass my son to high school with nothing but F’s across the board. And the educators of this state can’t figure out why so few graduates in Ga. can read, write and do simple math. Now I see that making bad decisions is a state wide problem with our educators. It’s past time to get the priorities in our education system straight. Are our children there to LEARN or play FOOTBALL??? THAT’S RIGHT FOOTBALL IS JUST A GAME!!!! I CHILDS EDUCATION IS NOT!!!!!!!

By Anna

May 6, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

I think that what Doc Neace did was approperiate. A students grade has a lot to do with particapation. As a high school student I watch many of my classmates sleep thier way to failing grades. This alarming trend has only gotten worse through “punishments” such as detention and ISS. These detrerants only give offenders another chance to sleep. Many of the kids at my school brag about how easy it is to sleep and copy papers later in order to pass the class. If your not actively working to make good grades you shouldn’t have them. School is supposed to prepare us for the real world, where can you find a job that will allow you to sleep on the clock? Mr.Nut should be horrified at his behavior. Perhaps he should sit through classes and see how bad the situaion has become. Go Doc Neace!

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

By Bill

May 6, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

….all the fussing,…all the complaining,…..but Monday morning, these same people, outraged as they are, will sit their most precious posessions out on the curb, before the sun comes up, and send them off to the same government school system. Not one ounce of effort will be put forward to remove them from the system that they are so aggrivated with,….and come election time, this whole sorted affair will be forgotten. That’s exactly what the “leaders” of our government school system are counting on. And to think, some people want our health care system run exactly the same way by exactly the same type of people.

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

i liv n a traaler u got sumthin agaanst peeple whoo liv n traalers

By Linda

May 6, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

“Wouldn’t it be funny if this little napper got booed off the stage at graduation while he received his ill-gotten diploma?” It scares me to think you teach children with that attitude. Your closed mind is why there are so many teacher-student conflicts.

By Ron

May 6, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

The School Board realizes that they are incorrect in terminating Mr. Neace and they have already prepared for litigation. The language choosen for Mr. Neace’s termination “The board said Larry Neace violated board policy when he lowered the student’s grade as a disciplinary measure. The grade was not lowered as a disciplinary measure but because the student failed to listen and participate in class.
I have always been graded on class participation, labs and attending class. Attending class is no different than a reading assignment for the next day. If you lowered someones grade for not reading chapters X and Y, or not completeing thier home work you wouldn’t say it is a disciplinary measure - you would say that they failed to do the work assigned, which is the case if someone falls asleep in class they are not participating in class.

By L Reid

May 6, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

The policy of not being allowed to make up classwork for an unexcused absence is in itself a “lowering grades discipline policy”! What hypocrits.

By allen

May 6, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Neal Boortz is right about the “government schools. This is but the latest in the most insane public school system in the nation. Be proud Georgia.

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Dacula students - this is a good politcal science example for you to witness first hand. Take note at how unchecked power leads to arrogance and abuse. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” A 26 year veteran teacher FIRED over taking 1/2 off of a grade of one lab. Sounds like a railroad job to me. Someone wanted Doc out and this was the vehicle to get it done. Machievelli anyone?

By jason pritchett

May 6, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

OK Folks, Here they are: J. Alvin Wilbanks, CEO/Superintendent

Dr. Robert McClure, District IV, 2005 Vice Chairman Lilburn, GA 30047

Carole Boyce, District I Dacula, GA 30019 BY THE WAY, SHE IS THE ONE WHO VOTED AGAINST TERMINATION.

Dr. Mary Kay Murphy, District III Duluth, GA 30097

Louise Radloff, District V Norcross, GA 30093

Dan Seckinger, District II, 2005 Chairman Auburn, GA 30011 BY THE WAY, HOW CAN YOU BE ALLOWED TO LEAD/REPRESENT, IF YOU DON’T PAY GWINNETT COUNTY TAXES?!

Remember them at the next elections!!! With the possible exception of Carole Boyce, I would like to see them ALL Impeached, removed by a special election, if it can be done. I was there til the end, and they provided a solution to make both the Board, and Doc, satisfied. Then they yanked it away with Pig-headedness.

By Paul

May 6, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

As a parent of students in DHS I am appalled at this situation. It is a well known fact that in DHS, FOOTBALL means everything. What a shame. It is also well known that principal Donnie Nutt is absent from the school for the most part, and that most decision making is done by the head FOOTBALL COACH. One of my children has the “pleasure” of having some classes with this ‘star’ student and has told me this action of his is all too common. The fact that his Daddy was also a FOOTBALL coach couldn’t possibly have had any influence in this matter. This is such a pathetic statement for DHS and Gwinnett Co that we should all take up the battle to prevent this travisty from happening again. Nutt, Maloof and the board should all be fired as soon as possible and the people should plead with ‘Doc” to return and possibly save DHS from itself. The education system in this state is in bad enough shape as it is. To let spineless administrators and mindless jocks dictate school policy is the final nail in the coffin. This childs parents are obviously living the dream…when your kid is flipping burgs at “Fat Joes” you can pat yourselves on the back and take great pride in your success.

By Susan R

May 6, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

There are many great things about teaching, but dealing with parents who baby their kids is not one of them I wonder if this particular parent has a job and if so, I further wonder how this person would enjoy working umpteen hours for the benefit of someone who sleeps in his/her face. I’m not from the Dacula area, and I don’t know all the details. It seems, however, that some people need to apologize to this educator. To the parent and his/her rude kid: Are you loved and admired by as many people?

By Mary

May 6, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

Folks,

The word is moot, not mute, as in the point is moot. Mute means refraining from speech or vocal sound. Moot means of no significance or relevance. In more and more of what I read, mute is used when moot should be used. Count this as your grammar lesson of the day.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

Rhonda:

BTW, you got my supper ready?

By John

May 6, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

They need to fire the board not the teacher. Such strong arming should be shunned.

By Jessica

May 6, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

This is an outrage! I cannot belive that they chose to fire “Doc” Neace!!! From what my boyfriend, who is a student of “Doc” Neace, told me…Mr. Neace was an awesome teacher.

They should have choosen an alternative punishment rather than firing him.

This is just completely bogus and it goes to show what the school board will do to make something go away.

By Gee

May 6, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

NO POSTS ALLOWED THAT ARE OVER 2 LINES LONG - GOT IT? GOOD!

By Tasha L. Moore

May 6, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Georgia don’t worry we have the same thing going on in South Carolina.

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

squirrel mike just called and said we are going to role 4 loads we also need to have rhonda get another cartersville truck

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

By the Truth Unless your child actually goes to Dacula and is affected by all of this then there is no need to play your childish games. I am more concerned about the children of the school. You need to get back to work at the local Piggly Wiggly and let the parents of these students work on the problem. BTW yes, your dinner is ready!

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

squrrell can we send a lode of fronts to mayfeeld darrn jus called and said that they want our fronts now

By CE Willis

May 6, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

The school board should be fired and not this dedicated teacher. We all complain because of the low grades and standards in schools but then when we have a teacher that will take action…then he gets fired. Now, we know why Georgia is at the bottom of the list….and my daughter wants to become a teacher???

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Former parent, my bad, my comment should have been directed to ’ a former parent.’

By Cheryl

May 6, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Your school board is more concerned with sports and obviously has no concern for education. Because this little boy wined and complained, you have decided to put a good teacher out on The streets. Had this not been a “sports jockey” would they have done the same?

These are the citizens and government of the future and just what are you saying to them? There was a time when a teacher was respected for decisions like this. The board is obviously More interested in furthering their sports reputation instead of their academic scores!!!!!!

I was looking at homes in the county, however not only will I not move to the county, I Won’t contribute to any business in your county as well. I will also make sure that Friends, colleagues, etc………….know what Gwinnett County is really about!!!!

A Concerned Parent and Citizen for the future of this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By MKW

May 6, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

I think the whole situation is rediculous. Isnt it a little extreme for someone to be fired over a decision on a grade? A warning or other punishment would have been sufficient. What if this man tries to get another job and cant because of his decision on a grade? I also think it is a little extreme to lower a childs grade. I hope the teacher thought his decision over thoroughly. If the child applies for college and doesnt get in because his GPA was to low due to the grade being cut in half I wonder what the teacher will think then? Will it be worth it in 10 years. Another thought, Im sure there is more to the story than the public is being told. What if that student did have a legitimate reason for sleeping in class? Was he up late studying for a test? Or was there some kind of an emergency that kept him awake? Im sure that his teacher slept in class when he was in high school or college. I think that the whole thing is rediculous.

By Adam

May 6, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

As a former Georgian and product of the the State’s Education system. I am taken aback by the thought that a teacher can be dismissed for this sort of thing. When I attended schools in Georgia (about the time of the last ice age) teachers would regularly use grades to ensure proper class behavior. This is a example of the “Dumbing-down of the South”.

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Rickey, Rhonda is still waiting on her child support check. You are 3 weeks behind…do you need some self-addressed stamped envelopes.

By Charles

May 6, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this

This is truly a sad day for Gwinnett County leaders. This teacher clearly was within his authority to grade the student on classroom performance. Sleeping does note even merit an “F” - it merits a complete ZERO. This was, in no way, shape or form a disciplinary action. In the REAL WORLD, if you sleep on the job you’re gone.

WAKE UP GWINNETT COUNTY and let your teachers do the right thing. WAKE UP GWINNETT COUNTY and listen to other students and supporters. WAKE UP GWINNET COUNTY and get rid of the leadership that terminated, or seeks to terminate, an instructor who truly betters the community.

By rikki tikkitavi

May 6, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Stupid is as stupid does.

Yet another GA school district doing all in it’s power to maintain that bottom decile ranking. In retrospect, Dacula and by extension, Gwinnet County, are doing a great job of preparing the athlete for an equally pitiful education at one of the local sports factories, oh i’m sorry, I meant “state universities”. The poor baby won’t even have to GO to class when he hits UGA.

It’s amazing that we had to move back into Fulton County to get better public schools than the freakshows that are called elementary schools in Gwinnett.

By Karl

May 6, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Keep the DOC and fire the school board… I’ve never heard of such an outrage…Maybe this is why there is such an education issue in the Georgia

By steve miller

May 6, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Hey Concerned Parent, If your so concerned, why don’t you actually read the post I wrote you imbecile. “What are you doing here anyway? Mr. Gorka expressed how he felt and you attack him like that? ” I don’t remember reading anywhere that you were assigned to the position of moral regulator and comment investigator of this discussion board. Congratulations. Now back to the discussion at hand. You are so oblivious, you can’t even see that your telling me what to say, how to say it and when to say it, I believe they call that censorship, however in your world it’s called being a Democrat - in psychological terms, it’s called “projection”. Let me explain…..nah, your an idiot. In case you have forgotten (coupled with the fact that you obviously feel the need to “stick-up” for Dorko - is he your caddie at the country club? I particularly enjoyed the lame comment about me being one of the big three……. For the love of God lady, keep your mouht shut when your foot is so near it). I am also afforded the same rights as Dorko to give my opinion and my opinion I have given whether you or your ilk like it or not. Your mentality is exactly the same as these administrators..don’t say anything that might offend little Jonnie or it might hurt his feelings and then he might start to smoke those cigarettes and we all know the next step after that is straight onto serial killer. But don’t worry, I’ll add you to my prayer list, right next to the Dacula School Board. FYI….they might have a few openings at the school board real soon, so make sure to get that highlighting done you’ve neglected ‘cause that way they won’t notice your HUGE FAT A** during the interview. Now that felt good!!!

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

my trailer has orunge shag carpet and i mow my yard with my weed eetter

By JJ Johnson

May 6, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

Another good reason why I put my kid in private Christian school. Public Schools are on the decline.

VOTE VOUCHERS!!!!!

By Sarah Van

May 6, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

A student’s grades are not just based on test scores and completed homework. If that were the case, students could show up for class long enough to get their assignments, cut out for the rest of the week and go hang out at the mall. Should a student who verbally threatens a teacher or is disruptive in class receive a perfect grade? No…the grade received is based on factors other than the ability to memorize and regurgitate information. This is nothing more than a case of a HS protecting a student athelete who really needs a kick in the *ss for being such a whiner.

By MJP

May 6, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

The Gwinnett County School System has become organized chaos. Releasing qualified TEACHERS and hiring nonqualified bodies unable to perform simple task. I have witnessed 20 years of the steady decline of this school system. A little advise for new parents, do your children a favor, send them to a private school. The entire Gwinnett School System is a joke.

By Jodi

May 6, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Mary, thanks for the grammar lesson. You beat me to it. Mute is what we do to the television when we don’t want to hear it. I’d like to mute a couple of people who have been posting on this thread. But I guess we do have the 1st amendment for a reason.

By Elaine

May 6, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Have the board members spend some time in the classroom and see how they like this disrespectful act. What did we just teach this young boy…whine and you’ll get your way. What is going to happen when he goes in the workplace and falls asleep at his job? If he works for me I’ll withhold his pay and if it happens again I’ll fire him. Give this teach back his job with a bonus for standing up for what is right. Fire the board members and get some who will teach children to respect authority.

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

thats a mighty fine set of tooth you got there

By Benin Dakar

May 6, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

The firing of Larry “Doc” Neace by the Gwinnett County School Board is ridiculous!

Truly Neace’s firing far exceeds whatever harm (real or perceived) caused by Neace lowering the sleeping student’s grade.

Reading between the lines it sounds like Neace was singled out for harsh punishment for some underlying reasons beyond what has been shared with the public.

Perhaps deflating an earned grade because of disciplinary problems may not be the best tool to motivate improved student behavior and I can see the student and their parent taking umbrage with Neace’s action. However, I do not think Neace’s tactic for classroom control is unique to Neace. My bet is that several faculty members at Dacula High School and throughout the Atlanta Metro area use a similar method to gain order in their classrooms.

It is troubling that this dispute could not have been mediated and a win-win solution found for both student and teacher.

Perhaps, the student has an underlying health issue that causes drowsiness? Or maybe the student is not challenged (and even though Neace has an excellent reputation as a teacher) needed to be placed in a more challenging classroom setting? Maybe Neace was simply fed-up with a disinterested student and was trying to send a message to other students not to fade out in his class as well.

I hope that the Gwinnett County School Board quickly revisits their decision. It sounds like Neace may have good fodder for a successful lawsuit, if they don’t change their minds.

Moreover, it is a tragedy to lose an accomplished, dedicated, respected, and much appreciated teacher, because Neace simply wanted to awaken a sleeping student to the joys of participative learning.

I believe it is not too late to find a better solution for everyone directly involved in this matter.

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Posters - Please stop saying the school board needs to be fired! Elected officials cannot be “fired.” If you don’t know this it means you probably don’t vote - hence the reason politicians get away with whatever they want. We vote for a president in this country - he cannot be fired. There are ways to remove elected officials but it is difficult process without an egregious ethical violation. Look at other elected officials who have done a poor job - Vernon Jones, Myron Freeman, etc. The only way to ensure future civil servants represent your values and beliefs is to remove the ones who do not. This means watching and following local politics and voting. I hate to say it - but if you don’t vote and didn’t cast a vote for this local school board election you have no right to complain.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Why Rhonda, first you attack people who live in trailers (as you call them), its actually modular homes, then you attack people who work in grocery stores. Is there no end to the madness? No, I don’t have children who go to Dacula High School or other fine gwinnett county schools. If you are SO CONCERNED about the students then you should be happy that the school board fired a teacher who was insubordinate and failed to follow school board policy. But thats not your agenda is it? If it was truly your desire to work on “this problem”, then call your school board members, go to school board meetings, voice your concerns to the people you have a problem with. When election time comes around…lobby against them, vote against them, send a letter to the state board of education. But here on a blog? You are not doing any good except for the continious verbal degradtion of certain members of our society, such as people who live in modular homes or people who work in the grocery industry, but of which I have alot of respect for.

By John Morrow

May 6, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe that any employee should be forces to follow an illlogical poorly conceived policy that is fundamentally wrong. Any teacher at any level has the right to include class participation as a part of their overall grading evaluation. This is a classic example of lawyers, bureaucrats and politicians running the schools instead of teachers.

By Jack

May 6, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

Hello You are all forgetting that he is a jock and probably can not read anyway so he had no idea that the rule was in place to begin with. Just think he will be the one asking if you want fries with that order after high school.

By Joe

May 6, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

There’s a good reason Georgia ranks 49th or 50th in the nation in education. This decision just solidifies that ranking. Football and other male dominated sports are the priority, not education. The Gwinnett County School Board confirms this in spades with their moronic decision.

By Terri Knight

May 6, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

I stand corrected on the “moot vs. mute” issue. However, that doesn’t erase the fact that Dacula High School is willing to reduce a grade for one infraction but not another.

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

my middle name is leeroyy

By steve

May 6, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Most of the emotional comments below don’t have anything to do with this situation. Fact: Teacher violated school policy. Fact: Teacher failed to correct violation when given opportunity. Fact: Teacher was disciplined. The student’s status is immaterial. Innapropriate punishment is the issue. Just the facts, please!

By Janie E.

May 6, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

My mother taught school for 25 years and upheld her belief that reading, writing and arithmetic were necessary fundamentals for success in life. Many will say it’s “old fashioned”, but how many students nowadays who are entering the workforce can do all three without the help of a calculator or computer? Since this world is becoming so dependent on technology, the manual ability to “think” is becoming “unnecessary” in today’s society. (For instance, think about it when you are awaiting change and the cashier won’t be able to give your change or complete a credit card transaction “until the computers come back up”!) Kudos to supporters - educators, parents, students, fellow men and women - who still believe in “old fashioned” principles of learning AND discipline despite school system “can’t do” policies and politics that change day to day to suit certain groups.

By Janet Stoker

May 6, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Mr “Doc” Nease: Thank you for your sacrifice in order to give the children of Georgia an excellent education. I am truly sorry that your years of dedication have been awarded in such a manner. It is truly disgusting. I can’t help but wonder what would have happened to “you” if the princapal had found you sleeping during class after a long night of preparing class assignments!!! If more parents would stand up against such policies as allowing ANY student such privilidges then our children might learn how to read, write and do math again and bring pride back to ourselves. This is a shameful thing to do to our educators.

By Mark

May 6, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

This is crazy. We allow a teacher to enforce his policy for years but when it affects a pampered athlete then it becomes a firable offense. This is a great message that we are sending to our children.

By Rickey Scruggs

May 6, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

what does ‘mute’ mean i went to dacoolla hi schull and was an athlleet

By Rhonda's Son

May 6, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t know why…By The Truth…is being so mean. I do go to Dacula High and she has a right to speak about this subject. You on the other hand are just trying to be the opposite. For all we know you could be Mr.Nutt, or the kids dad. Do you know that almost every teacher does the same thing? I guess not! Otherwise you wouldn’t have opened your big mouth. Also there is a thing called a syllabus that us students have to sign. It stated that Doc would do that and the prinical knows how Doc grades, so he had no right to allow mr daddys’ little boy to get in the way of the teaching. The school motto is FOCUSED ON LEARNING!!! Now it is FOCUSED ON FOOTBALL! THNX and I’m sure you will have a smart thing to say back to that so I’ll be ready but until then have a WONDERFUL day!!!

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

Rhonda, we will not ship a load to Detroit on Wed. thank you.

By Paul

May 6, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

Teachers work for the school board. The elected school board sets the policy, and the teachers are required to follow the policy. If an employee was told to operate by company guidelines and failed to do so, they would be fired. I am a teacher and sometimes I have students who break rules. I follow stated procedure to deal with any problems. If I have complaints about a policy, I take that up with administrators - I do not just do it however I want. The truth is that this teacher took the lazy way out. To avoid calling parents or documenting the behavior and reporting it to administrators, he simply included it when grading.

By TC

May 6, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

I have refused to grade work that is late because a student slept in class and tried to complete the assignment later. I have refused to pass a student because of this sleeping situation. In the end, the prinicipal just changes the grade. Why did it need to go as far as the board of education?

By Jack

May 6, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

It is ashame that a GOOD teacher had to loose his JOB because a JOCK could not get his rest before practice. Everybody know you can not perform your best unless you are well rested. It is not about an education it is what is your record at the end of the year that is most important.

By SF

May 6, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Absolutely ridiculous that a well respected teacher would be fired for trying to teach a kid about responsibility. The teacher didn’t try to reduce the kid’s semester grade in half; it was one homework assignment. Getting a bad grade on one homework assignment is easily made up if the kid applied himself the rest of the way; it was nothing more than a slap on the wrist, and the teacher is fired for it.

I bet if this kid fell asleep watching tape of the next weeks game opponent, the coach would have ran him until he puked, and not one person would say the coach went too far with discipline. But cut an assignment in half that probably accounts for about 2% of his overall class grade, and the teacher gets fired for it. Great lesson, BOE.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Fire the principal. Where has the Nutt been? He needs to go. Too many things are happening at Dacula that the principal doesn’t handle.

By D

May 6, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

I was unable to attend the hearing yesterday. Is there any way to obtain a copy of the transcript? (if one was made)

By Jack

May 6, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

thut is a preetty tooov you hav their

By Pilgrim's Pride Management

May 6, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

SILENCE IS GOLDEN!!!

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Rhonda, Florence will need an extra delivery on Tues, 5/10.

By Jack

May 6, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

u folk ned to leeve my boi alon. he can run fastst on tha teem daddi

By Deloris

May 6, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Attn: My Child’s Pre-K teacher CC: Childs future 1st thru 12th grade teachers. Hello: This is my child. He is entering Pre-K today, first time he has been away from me for any lenth of time. I expect you to teach him what he needs to get through life. However, you are not allowed to disciple him, speak harsh to him, give him test, you are to pass him regardless of his ability and learning. If he is not able to cope, adjust, and maintain the life style I desire after he completes his 12th grade, I am going to sue you. Sound fairy-taled? No, unfortunately this is what our government and also a majority of the parents expect from teachers.

By Jake

May 6, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

What too many have missed is that a grade was lowered, in direct contravention of the teacher’s employer’s rules. Give the kid detention, suspend him from class, make him do extra work, etc… But dock a grade? What if it had been an A, and docked to an F, due to sleeping one time? Or violated the dress code? Or failed to address the teacher as “Sir” one day? A rule was broken, and employer disciplined the employee who broke the rule. It IS that simple.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Well now, isnt this interesting. “mean”, not hardly. Because I don’t go to DHS, or any of the other fine gwinnett county schools I am not allowed to speak my piece on this subject? Its America small fry, I can speak on any subject at any time, as I see fit. And yes, as far as I can tell..you should focus on football, because you sure didn’t learn anything in school. So what if other teachers do it? Thats NOT in question…it relates to a teacher who remains insubordinate and failed to follow rules set up to protect the little tykes, such as yourself. So enough of that, tell your mother to keep my plate warm..I’ll be late tonight

By Gee

May 6, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

This sleeper should do well in college. I did some serious sleeping- in during my college years to shake some unbelievable hangovers. If I could do it all over again I would. Cheers. TGIF.

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Steve Miller: Why do you turn this into a political Republican/Democrat debate. Most of the school board members are probably Republicans. I taught several years back at a 5AAAAA school and all the football coaches were die-hard Republicans from the south who hated social welfare programs. They couldn’t stand the thought of somebody getting something for nothing…except when it came to PASSING their players who did NOTHING in the classroom. I used to call them Democrats and welfare supporters just to p* them off - because when applied to this scenerio they had no problem with somebody getting something for nothing. I’m sure the football coaches and Principal Nutt probaly fit the same category

By princess Fiona

May 6, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

What it all boils down to in a Nuttshell is Nutt had it out for him all along. I would not expect my child to pass a class having slept through it. The dad is at fault here for not respecting the teacher enough to back him up!!!!!!

By James Lee Adams

May 6, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Mark Twain “God first made idiots—that was for practice—then he made school boards.”

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

To Rhonda’s son DO NOT REPLY TO HIM! It is not worth it. I will handle it!

By Stewie

May 6, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

You dumb hicks. There is something called detention and I.S.S. That is the reason those disciplinary options are there, use them. This is a situation when a tenured teacher gets all uppity and thinks he can do whatever he wants. He isn’t above the rules that govern the school.

By The Truth

May 6, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Sorry I can’t stay….sounds like this could be interesting in a few. See you all tomorrow. And Squirrel, Ricky and Jack handle that problem with the shipping

By Kevin

May 6, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

In this day and age, teachers’ hands are so tied there is little they can do in the way of discipline and/or classroom mgmt. Mr. Neace probably felt this was the only effective method at keeping students’ attention in class.

I was a teacher in Forsyth County and was routinely hounded by my principal about my classroom mgmt, but it seemed that any method I used from rewards to penalties, always met resistance from the administration.

Teaching has gotten so politicized it’s simply not worth doing anymore(I have left the profession). My guess is Mr. Neace feels much the same way.

By Terresa

May 6, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

We wonder why our schools are at the bottom, and then we see something like this happen. Our teachers must act like puppets to pacify parents, students and school adminstration (principals!) and still be required to teach some of these spoiled brats something. Instead of the teacher being fired, the student should be suspended and certainly not allowed for his “good grade” to stand and be able to participate in sports - Oh, but I forgot that’s what school is all about!!

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Rhonda, 2 Lima’s shipping Monday, 5/9

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

Is the glass half full, or half empty? The central issue in this conflict is the question of whether the docking of points from a grade for wasting time in class is a discipline issue (says GCPS)or an academic issue (says Doc Neace).

If you look at Mr. Neace’s grading policy in his syllabus he does not say directly that there will be points awarded for participation, and this fact was accurately pointed out by Wilbank’s attorney. However, in reply Doc Neace explained to Wilbanks attorney that participation “was built into his policy.” Doc sees ‘wasting time in class’ as a failure to participate.

‘Positive points awarded for participation’ in one class syllabus would apparently pass muster with the school system and board as an academic assessment, BUT the negative statement that ‘wasting time results in zero points’ is viewed by the school system and board as a discipline issue.

I think the school system is splitting hairs over the specific words used or not used in Doc Neace’s syllabus. So is the glass half full or half empty? If you state the negative or positive you still have the same result:

Participating = Not Wasting Time for points awarded or not deducted

Wasting Time = Not Participating for points not awarded or points deducted

Why doesn’t the local school system and board get it? Maybe someone at the State level will understand.

By Marie

May 6, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

I was a music teacher in south Georgia and gave a student a 50 in posture. This is a Georgia QCC objective required for choir students. I was pressured for weeks to change that grade. I refused to back down. My contract was not renewed for the following year. Unfortunately, Doc’s experience in Georgia is not unique.

By karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

To Pilgrim’s Pride Management, the squirrels are planning a hunt.

By Danny

May 6, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

First, I would like to say HOORAH to “Doc” Neace for standing up for his ethics. I agree with the board that he did violate board policy and should have been told to stop doing it. However, he has been doing it for ten years without any mention of it, so the school and schoolboard are negligent for not addressing this much sooner. I feel that his policy is fair. He cleary stated in his class syllabus the penalty for sleeping in class. I believe that he actually went light on the student. I thought the policy was a zero, but he only had his grade cut in half.

Robert mentioned PAGE in his comment. Unfortunately, a real teachers union will not happen in the state of Georgia. It is illegal for teachers to have a union in Georgia. I am aware of this as my wife is a high school teacher in Clayton County. If you think Gwinnett is bad, think again.

And to Catrina, you are wrong about one thing. There are a lot of teachers who teach for the love of it. They sure don’t do it for the money. The problem is that the administrations have tied the teacher’s hands to such an extent that they are just glorified baby sitters now. They are ridiculed for not maintaining order in their class room and when they try to discipline a disorderly student they are ridiculed for being too harsh. What can they do? Also, if a parent argues enough about their childs grade, the administration will change the grade more times than not. Is this a service to the child? I think not. The child is being taught that he/she can do what they want without regard to the consequences. There is no penalty for doing poorly or being disorderly. And people wonder what is wrong with Georgia schools…

By princess Fiona

May 6, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

squirrel let us make sure that those things are shipped to the proper location on the correct dates.

By Hmmm

May 6, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

What is the Georiga Student Academic GPA? Hmmmmmmm. Way to go Doc! Yes!

By Jack

May 6, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

aint no problem in shipping. my toov is hurting and it is my favorite one.

By Mincons

May 6, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

I am a former student at Dacula High School. Dacula’s discipline policies are crooked! They tend to vary punishments for “favorites”, especially of Mr. Nutt. After leaving Dacula, I have heard MANY teachers from my new school, Mill Creek, talk about how crooked Mr. Nutt is and how the Doc Neace case is just another of his attempts to show off the almight “Nutt Power” Neace deserves to stay. Every teacher I’ve ever known has had some sort of sleeping policy, whether is be cutting a grade on a lab, as Neace does, or calling home, or asking you to leave the room. The student, who I have met and known of for several years now deserved what he got.

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

Squirrel I need those loads off credit hold to ship, TODAY PLEASE>

By jennifer jones

May 6, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

I THINK IT IS VERY STUPID THAT THE SCHOOL BOARD DID THIS! SO WHAT HE CAN’T PLAY FOOTBALL HE HAVE NOT BEEN SLEEPING IN CLASS IF HE CAN’T PAY ATTENTION IN CLASS THEN MAYBE HE CAN SPEND THAT TIME NOT PLAYING FOOTBALL AND GET SOME SLEEP THAT IS A BUNCH OF BULL AND IF I WERE THE TEACHER I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING SO NOW ALL HE SHOULD IS FILE A LAW SUIT OF SOME KIND AND GET PAID THE STUDENT GOT WHAT HE WANTED OUT OF THE CLASS NOTHING + NOTHING = NOTHING

By Dick

May 6, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

My wife is a school teacher, has been teaching for 27 years. This year, the first day of pre-planning, our intelligent, industrial, dedicated superintendent told the entire school system teachers “I do not care how you do it, but do what ever it takes to make the parents happy?. with me being a small business owner, I get to choose the graduates from a school sytem being lead by someone the caliber (and stupidty) our superintendent has.

By Quint

May 6, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc, way to go. When you get hired at your next school, don’t give students failing grades for sleeping. You can’t do that. But you can give a pop quiz every time you see a student’s head hit the desk.

By Lexie

May 6, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

As a Dacula alumni and future educator, I applaud Doc for standing up to a school so obsessed with its football program. I was a part of this culture and getting out of it and realizing that there is more to life was the best thing I could do. Doc was an institution at Dacula, and even if you never took his class - you knew who he was. I feel sorry for the future Dacula students who will suffer because a wonderful teacher was taken away from them. Doc you are in our prayers and so many of us are so proud of you!

By former parent

May 6, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Moose, Natasha and Boris: Do something with squirrel

By Jack

May 6, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

WOW NOTHING + NOTHING=NOTHING , use a comma or a period. and why all of the yelling ?

Rhonda pay the bill and the hold will be removed

By Student

May 6, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

I am a student in Docs class. Not only am I a student, I was also in the class with the football player who caused this whole controversy. Notice I said was, the football player was removed from our class and placed in another teachers class following this confrontation. Then Doc was removed from the classroom and the other 150 students suffered for twelve days without a teacher. Now we have a long term sub and we are having to cram in all the things we were supposed to learn within the last two weeks. The administrators also failed to inform us as to why we did not have a teacher for twelve days. Mr.Mason and Mr.Nutt also lied to the board about things that happened and that was apparent.

By Ken

May 6, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait to see what happens when this kid gets out into the real world and falls to sleep in a meeting (provided he doesn’t end up at a fast food restaurant with all the other athletes who never had to take responsibility). Is his daddy going to go running to the boss and complain when they fire his son? He’s going to wish that the worst that would happen to him is failing an assignment. Come on Gwinnett. Regardless of what grading policies you have (which make absolutely no sense by the way), your number one obligation should be education. Inherent in that is ensuring children understand responsibility. I can’t even begin to think of how you can justify such a stupid decision, but I can assure you “Doc” is going to be a whole lot better off when he gets job with a private school and doesn’t have to deal with idiotic government bureaucracy anymore.

By MC Hammer

May 6, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

Can’t touch this!

By stephen

May 6, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

This is a joke. I can’t believe so many of you guys are saying this teacher did the ‘right’ thing in slashing this students grades. If I was the teacher would I have felt like slashing his grade? Probably. Did he deserve it? Maybe. Would I break the rules myself in an effort to try and convince this student not to break mine?? NO!! What an idiot this teacher was. The student should be disciplined. The teacher has been. Don’t like the school rules?? Get them changed. What ever you do, don’t try and convince everyone he did the ‘right’ thing. That would be totally asinine.

By billy

May 6, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Jennifer, that is the longest run on sentence I’ve ever seen. Your awsome. Did you go to Dacula? I heard they really stress the usage of capital letters. Your awsome! NOTHING + NOTHING = NOTHING. That’s awsome.

By Darlene

May 6, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Oh my lord…the Georgia schools are out of control. I am a parent of a former Cobb County Middle Schooler. I can even say that I moved to cobb county because I thought the schools were superior…boy was I wrong. I tried to file a complaint about one of the teachers at my daughters middle school but no one has the time to speak with you. (Not unless you make it a bigger issue then it needs to be do you hear anything at all.) You send emails to the school requesting assistance, a conference, phone calls to any and everyone that will listen…natta. My husband and I even contacted the school board on several occasions, they sent us back to the school, boy that works…NOT…as always “no results”. Then when you get upset becuase your being ingnored (our children are very important to us) you get slapped with a restraining order. I must admit, I had to pull my daughter from the cobb county school district because I wouldn’t stand for the school and/or the school boards ignorance. Do we have checks and balances within the Georgia school system to make sure everything is being looked into properly?? After all these school adminstrators are paid for by tax dollars.
Amazed Parent

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

I can’t get you a truck if the customer does not pay the bills. My $300k home burned to the ground

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

“Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!”…(oops, I just dated myself). Squirrels are our friends; not food!

By Rhonda

May 6, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

I am moving in with By the truth

By mmr

May 6, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Is it only ok to parents that Georgia ranks so low in Education because we rank so high in producing athletes? Doc’s firing is a travesty.

By Mitch

May 6, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

It is great that the school board and principal wear jock straps so well on their head. This student will possibly go to UGA where he does not have to study either!!!!!!!!!!!

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

Didn’t anyone else read Karen Armsby’s full account of the meeting last night? I found it more than disturbing and agree that Mr. Neace DOES appear to have been railroaded.

And to Greg and “concerned parent I and II” and all the others who keep trying to make this a b/w issue of rules and regulations, think about how you would feel in a business setting if you were in a sub-commander position and one day your boss allowed a client to verbally berate you IN FRONT OF THEM for a command decision you made before you and your boss had a chance to discuss what had happened and why you made that decision. It wouldn’t happen, but if it did, you’d be beyond indignant.

By Football Parent

May 6, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

Everyone has a right to take a position on this subject, but can we refrain from bashing student athletes?

I have a son that plays football at Dacula. He also had Doc Neace as a teacher. My son would not sleep in class. He knows that if he did, not only would his grade get cut, but I would put my foot in his butt when he got home. Most of the kids playing football at Dacula and their parents feel the same way so lets not throw all student-athletes into the same bucket.

In the end, the student was wrong, Doc was wrong for not following school policy and the school board was wrong for applying a punishment that clearly does not fit the situation. Thank you Carol Boyce for keeping a level head and voting the right way. We expected nothing less from you!

By former parent

May 6, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Karen Armsby for School Board Super

By Gee

May 6, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

I can’t give you a positive referral on this thing here. I voted for it before I voted against it.

By Get real

May 6, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

This student play at UGA? Get Real. You guys all talk like you think this guy is a top Div. I prospect. Yes, he is a fair football player, but Dacula would win as many games without him as they would with him.

By billy

May 6, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Do people really think that anyone is actually reading this crap? This is an excersise in self-adulation. Hey everybody, look at how smart I am…..”I’m a parent”…”I’m a former teacher”……..”I used to go to Dacula”…….”I knew somebody that can spell Dacula”…..sheeple.wake up. This is a shipping site. Whats with all this talk of Dracula and him getting fired? We don’t care. I’m gonna need two 25 cc bloshovic crate blasters and I don’t want that crappy aluminum junk. Can anybody understand that?

By Patrick O'Donohue

May 6, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

The Dacula School Board needs to be schooled in common sense. Surely this could have been worked out by other methods of firing a teacher who sounds like he was in good standing with the school. Pampered football player or not, the kid should show some respect.

By Terrence

May 6, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

Sounds like a case of a teacher who wasnt very popular in school getting revenge through a football player in his class. Obviously the kid wasnt sleeping to hard if he managed a perfect score. Maybe the teacher should worry about making his work harder so you wont be able to sleep in and still pass.

By Sly

May 6, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Resubmit the decision to the committee first brother - they’ll vote for it before they vote against it

By billy

May 6, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

..sounds like your pants are on too tight.

By Jacquelin Twiss

May 6, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

And we wonder why Georgia schools are rated so poorly. I say we need more teachers like Mr. Neace. If teachers truly cared AND had the support of the school board, then we wouldn’t have so many under-educated high school graduates.

By MJ

May 6, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Well, Terrence, and others who wonder how the student did so well on an assignment. I can think of another way than saying the teacher is easy, or boring - it’s called copying. Even my sixth grade students can figure that out.

By Jack

May 6, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this

don’t call rhonda she can not get a truck…. I will have to wake up the boys to get the 2 units out today.

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Billy: What would be awesome, is if you could spell AWESOME! Life lesson: Proofread your own work before discrediting someone else’s. Also, if you had known that “your” is a possessive pronoun and “you’re” is a contraction for “you are” you might have chosen the latter and not the former.

By Squirrel

May 6, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

To former parent: The proper name is Bullwinkle - not Moose!

By Ware Cornell

May 6, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

What is a football player doing taking physics?

My guess is the kid is pretty smart, quite unlike the members of the school board who set up a useless confrontation and lost…lost a good teacher, certainly, and lost the respect of a lot of kids and parents, probably.

By Terrence

May 6, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Well MJ are you sure he copied it maybe he is a lot smarter than you think. Student athletes are alot smarter than you want to give them credit for. They go to college play a sport and do college classes and some score very high on all aptitude test just to get in the college. Maybe you should invest in privat school for your sixth grader if he has to cheat his way through school.

By former parent

May 6, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Leave me alone. I’m watching cracked fairytales.

By M. Shea

May 6, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

I do not think Doc should be reinstated in his teaching job! Actually, Gwinnett County should clean house and Doc should be the principal or the county superintendent.

By lcr

May 6, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Our children are supposed to be going to school to learn not sleep. Until this country (note I said country) gives a teacher back the rights that they had in the 50’s and 60’s our children will continue to be non productive adults. When was the last time that you were trying to make a purchase when the computerized register would not work. A lot of these young people can not add, subtract and even read when they get out of high school. This is a disgrace. I am a mother that worked with my child every day of his school life in Gwinnett County to help him learn what he needed to. I cared enough about him to give him a Head Start in this world. Shame on the Board, and shame on the parents for not backing the teacher. You have caused your child the greatest injustice that you could have by teaching him that special students get the easy way out. I hope I don’t run into him working in a store where he can’t make change.

By Angie

May 6, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

The fact of the matter is that the School Board has a policy and the teacher violated it. As has been proven with so many new Zero-Tolerence policies around the country, School Boards are going by the books on these things now. If a student can get suspended for bringing a butter knife to school in his/her lunch bag to cut up an apple then by all means this teacher should have been terminated when he refused to reinstate the grade.

This has nothing to do with athletes getting preferential treatment. In fact, I think in this case it was the opposite. There was mention that another student was thought to be sleeping also. What happened with that grade? Was it not printed because that grade was not lowered. There is a ine line between giving student athletes preferential treatment and punishing them for who they are. I think that some people go so far in not wanting others to think that they are favoring the athletes that they go to the other extreme and punish them.

By William

May 6, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

I disagree with the firing of the teacher and if the student did sleep in class Mr. Neace may have been justified in lowering his grade but cut the student some slack.

According to the story in the paper the student completed the assignment and made a good grade. He must be pretty smart if he is sleeping in class and still making good grades. Not all football players are dumb jocks and not all non athletes are smart.

By not steve

May 6, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

Mr.”just the facts” steve: Fact: Teacher violated school policy. Fact: Teacher failed to correct violation when given opportunity. Fact: Teacher was disciplined…Just the facts, please! Now for the REAL Facts: Fact: Teacher refused a direct order from Principal Nutt, who TOLD him he violated policy. Fact: Nowhere is it stated that sleeping is a disciplinary issue. Not in GCPS regs, not in the DHS handbook. Fact: If teacher had followed directive, changed the grade, and PSC(State Ethical Board) determined he should not have done so, his Certificate could have been revoked, and he could not have taught anywhere in the State of Georgia. Fact: Teacher would VERY gladly have complied with directive, had he been assured PSC was OK with changing the grade. Fact: HE WAS NEVER GIVEN THIS OPPORTUNITY!!

Facts clear now?

By MJ

May 6, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Terrence - what on Earth makes you think I have a sixth grader who cheats in school? I teach sixth graders who figure that if a student sleeps in class but gets the assignment correct, help was gotten somewhere. It’s a path I’d like to see investigated. As for athletes who go to college and play a sport, yadda, yadda, yadda - UGA has certainly set a very bad example there, haven’t they? Not a good choice of example for you to use, I think.

By Bert

May 6, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Just another case of the ridiculously preferential treatment that athelets get in our school system!!! If this student had not been an athlete, this would never have been an issue. The board would have sided with the teacher and it would have been over in moments. What a sham!!! I can’t belive that my tax dollars go towards coddling athletes!

By Rhino

May 6, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Trust me…..place your children in private schools and you will not have to worry about these issues. Don’t use the old, “I can’t afford private school” excuse. Adjust your lifestyle and do the right thing. INVEST in your children. It is absolute child abuse to send your child to a government school in Georgia!

By the way ANGIE….the “other student” was dealt the same punishment.

By billy

May 6, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Dear Concerned Georgian, Thank’s (thank you) for the very enlightening English/Grammer lesson. I’m so ashamed, I’ll probably just sit around the house and drink beer all night and it’s because of you. I hope you realize that your words can hurt (*if properly punctuated and gramatically correct). For the rest of my life, no matter where I go or what I do……..you’ll remain in my heart as the only person who was willing to finally show me the “tough love” I’ve been searching for. I love you Concerned in Georgia. Your my Hero.

By shan

May 6, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

i feel the student should have gotten an F. because he was not to sleep in class. and the principal should lose his job since he beleives in sports then education. what will football do for him in the future. but an education will last forever. the parents should be embressed and they are just plain DUNB. for getting there child stuck on sports then education.

By Ally

May 6, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

I have a daughter in another Gwinnett Co H.S. and her science teacher is a JOKE! Sits there eating peanut butter during class saying it’s ok to get a “C” cause his own kids did!! Then you have great teachers like Mr. Neace who makes rules and stands by them only to get fired - how ridiculous is that. This kids parents need to stop making excuses for him and let him pay the consequences of his actions. Do you plan on following him around in college and fighting every teacher who gives him a grade you think he doesn’t deserve. Please - get real! That’s why Georgia is ranked so low year after year - teachers aren’t allowed to discipline like they should and be respected like they should so students and many parents make a mockery of school and in the end, it’s our children who pay the price!

By Dale

May 6, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Doc was fired for insubordination—he refused to follow school rules that grade cuts cannot be used as discipline.

Here’s a situation and you are the parent—the day before graduation, your daughter—the class valedictorian— is caught drinking before school in the school parking lot. Instead of suspending your daughter from school— which means she could not go through graduation the next day—the principal decides to reduce her grade in chemistry by two letter grades thereby allowing her to graduate but not as the valedictorian. This would void several of the scholarships she had earned as the top student. However, if your daughter had been suspended as called for by school rules—she still would have recieved her diploma—-as school valedictorian—after the suspension period was over. The school board instructs the principal to reinstate your daughter’s grades and suspend her for 5 days as required by school system policy. The principal refuses. As the girl’s parent, whowould you support—the principal or the school system?

By Sarah

May 6, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Doc did the right thing, and I am so proud of him for standing up for himself. Doc IS an incredible teacher and has taught many students very valuable lessons, and not just about physics! They say in Gwinnett that they want good teachers, but why did they just fire one of the best ones we’ve got? Now Doc is suffering, along with all 120 students of his who are having to learn physics from an UNTRAINED SUBSTITUTE! Since when is this focusing on education?

Get your act together, Mr. Wilbanks. As was said by many parents after the ruling last night, kiss your position goodbye. After this next election, you’ll be out of there. Start packing your bags, sir.

By Terrence

May 6, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

MJ NOT ALL ATHLETES EVEN AT UGA ARE DUMB. LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT ACADEMIC ALL AMERICAN DAVID GREENE AND NEW RECRUIT MOHAMED MASSAQUOI WHOSE GOT A 4.0 AND 1100 ON THE S.A.T. YEAH SOME ATHLETES ARENT AS GIFTED AS OTHERS BUT LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THE FRAT BOYS AND JUST PLAIN OLE PARTY ANIMALS AT COLLEGE ALSO. ONE BAD APPLE SPOILS THE WHOLE BUNCH OR AT LEAST PEOPLE THINK THAT ONE BAD APPLE MAKES THEM ALL DUMB

By Barney Strickland

May 6, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

ATTENTION LOOK >> Geez, I can’t believe the school board of Gwinnett county decided to fire Doc Nease for the reasons it stated - “he did not follow the board policy”. However, I’ve discovered more goes on at Dacula high then meets the eye !! First, Donnie Nutt was a shop teacher who got his grad degree in Education Administration and climbed the administration ladder as a result. I dare say he hasn’t yet met the coach on his faculty yet whereas he wouldn’t kiss their butt for any reason anytime. He garners zero respect from the “real” (exclude coaches) at Dacula high. I guess phootball wins over fysics in Gwinnett county !! Anyway, here’s the real scuttlebutt !! Supposedly, Dacula high rents out their auditorium on weekends to Hebron Baptist church (Donnie’s church) for overflow services. There is no open, public, notorious bidding process for use of school facilities…. just a private little deal with good Ol’ Hebron Baptist. ALSO, donnie has county employees (janitors) hang signs on the doors of individual classrooms as a means of designating each classroom as to which sunday school class will be taught in which classroom on sundays (I wonder if this is following school board policy also ??). It gets better !! In the last couple of months (one Sunday), some of these bright, beaming, Hebron, baptist, christian youth were caught on security cameras rifling and robbing laptop computers from the personal closet/bins which are used/locked for the use of instructors in these very classrooms. However, the services at this PUBLIC GOVERNMENT school continue !! Was this a ruling of the Gwinnett board also ?? If the school claims it needs whatever compensation it gets from Hebron Baptist (if any)……. then open the use of the facilities to open bidding for weekend use !! I’m sure some humanists (gasp!!) or bikers might want to rent it !! Donnie…..you got some ‘splainin’ to do buddy !! Parents, run fast, run far from Gwinnett schools…. before you know it, Donnie will be another example of “intelligent design” (creationism) instead of evolution !! What other PHD in physics would ever stoop to teaching in Gwinnett again. What a waste of intellect and talent to lose this man !!

By Rhino

May 6, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

He not Steve…Your comment, “Nowhere is it stated that sleeping is a disciplinary issue. Not in GCPS regs, not in the DHS handbook” is classic. That is exactly the point! It should be against the rules!! This is the problem with the Georgia Government schools!!! Fall asleep in a rivate school and see what happens…

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

To Angie,

Apparently, only one napping student’s parents complained. It has not been offered what happened to the other student but judging by the testimony, the second student’s parents didn’t complain. To me, this is the prime injustice of Doc’s firing. Mr. Nutt was obviously looking for an excuse to fire Doc and the over-indulgent parent gave him one. That the student was even allowed to retake the lab assignment is ludicrous.

I actually now feel sorry for the student in question because he will undoubtedly become a pariah at school. But then again, “stupid is as stupid does.”

By billy

May 6, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

………..you mean like you

By MJ

May 6, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

My goodness, must you yell, Terrence? Are you this kid’s father or something? I think you are just a little too invested in this. I agree with others that there is a lot more to this story than we know. My idea is to check all the facts and be fair. So sorry if you think I’m jumping to conclusions - not that you would ever do such a thing…

By Mr. Peabody

May 6, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

Quiet Sherman!

By Anita

May 6, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this

Dale, your comment doesn’t really speak to the issue at hand. Your example is a good one of the misuse of grading in a truly disciplinary matter. In your example, the student is violate a school policy that is not directly related to classroom performance and is subjected to an academic penalty that does not “fit the crime.” This is in no way analogous to a teacher lowering a grade on a specific assignment for a student’s failure to live up to established classroom standards for sucessfully completing that assignment.

As a former administrator and current teacher, I’m sickened, saddened, and scared by this action. I can’t wait to see some meeting minutes (or a transcript—wouldn’t that be great!) so that I can try to understand why this board made such a foolish decision that will undoubtedly expose the Gwinnett system to a costly legal battle.

By CC

May 6, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this

Wow. I never realized how pathetic THE TRUTH is till I read this blog.

People like you, sir, are the reason we have so many stupid children in this country. You think it is perfectly acceptable for a man to be fired from his career and banned from a school district because he gave your precious little athlete a failing grade for sleeping in class.

It is apparent that a diploma from this high school means nothing.

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this

Someone posted this link yesterday to get Nutt removed:

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/DMS

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Thank you Anita. You got your post in to Dale before I did but I was writing the same thing. He was not citing similar circumstances but he was exposing his own predisposition to bail his kid out if they committed an error in judgment rather than letting them suffer the consequences of that lapse. My question to him is, where does the bail out stop? S__t happens so “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”

By Suwanee

May 6, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this

To Barney Strickland,

VERY interesting!

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

“TO BARNEY FIFE, I mean BARNEY STRICKLAND”. Drive around Gwinnett County on any Sunday morning and you will find that many elementary, middle and high schools are rented out by churches. This is run by the Community Schools group within the school system. “Community” being the key word here. You can get a little group together possibly to discuss your hatred of churches and rent space just like Hebron Church does. You can probably get a classroom right next to them.

And those janitors that are paid by the rent Hebron pays need that income. They would appreciate it if you left them alone and stuck to the facts.

By Cheek's Classmate

May 6, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

Well, there is a lot of questioning about the student involved. I’m in his class so let me give you a little insight… he is a slacker! The kid sleeps and then gets a buddy to give him the answers so he can complete assignments. Not only is he sleeping but he’s cheating. You can’t write a lab report about a lab you haven’t done, plain and simple. Don’t get caught up in the fact that he’s a football player, sure Maloof runs the school (EXCEPT FOR NEACE) and gets his way; Doc treats the white kids, black kids, hispanic kids, asian kids, rich and poor, athlete or non-athlete the same. Period. I am a “student athlete”, not an “athlete student”; I go to school to get an education first and participate in sports secondly and for fun. I fell asleep in class one day and guess what… I got a BIG FAT ZERO! My mom found out and I WAS GROUNDED. WHAT A CONCEPT, MY ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!! I’ve never fallen asleep in a class since. Doc is one of the best teachers I have ever had. If you are willing to help yourself then he will go above and beyond the call of duty. (By the way, all juniors have to take physics. Cheek isn’t any smarter than the rest of us because he’s in physics.) If you think it is unfair that Cheek got a reduced grade then what do you think about all of the students in Doc’s 5 classes who lost their teacher right before finals?? Thanks for nothing GCBE. I don’t know if Ms. Boyce voted to keep her job or if she really felt Doc should stay but thanks for trying. To the other members… just remember that most of us that you’ve screwed will be able to vote in 2006 and 2008 and so will our friends and family in other areas of the county!!

By Voice of Reason

May 6, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Excellent point Not Steve, let me reiterate the facts that Not-Steve made: REAL Facts: Teacher refused a direct order from Principal Nutt, who TOLD him he violated policy. Fact: Nowhere is it stated that sleeping is a disciplinary issue. Not in GCPS regs, not in the DHS handbook. Fact: If teacher had followed directive, changed the grade, and PSC(State Ethical Board) determined he should not have done so, his Certificate could have been revoked, and he could not have taught anywhere in the State of Georgia. Fact: Teacher would VERY gladly have complied with principal’s directive, had he been assured PSC was OK with changing the grade. Fact: HE WAS NEVER GIVEN THIS OPPORTUNITY!!

In other words, Doc agreed to change the grade, but to do so would’ve violated the state’s ethic standards which would have resulted in the revocation of his teaching license. So all Doc wanted was approval by the state’s ethics board (PSC) that’s all.

By Concerned Georgian

May 6, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Billy: I’m sure you’ll sit around and drink beer tonight for any old reason. But be prepared, someday your mom will probably ask you to move out and stop living in her basement. Best of luck.

By Wendy

May 6, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Dale -

There are a lot of flaws to that argument. For starters, drinking BEFORE school is clearly a disciplinary issue. If you ask me, the sleeping during class is a gray area. You can make the argument that’s it’s an academic issue or a disciplinary issue. A zero for late work or cheating could be considered disciplinary, too, but it’s not.

For another, yes, character matters. 10-15 years ago, I heard Stockbridge HS decided that the kid with the grades to be salutatorian was not allowed - why, you ask? Got caught smoking dope on campus. The NHS in my high school refused to allow a girl in because she got pregnant. I thought it was a bit harsh, but that was their decision. You shouldn’t be allowed to change a grade because of before-school behavior, but I’m certainly ok with stripping her of the title “valedictorian”. Drink off-campus, you moron…

Thirdly, as has been stated, teachers are ETHICALLY bound by the profession to not change grades. They can lose their certificate. The principal could have changed the grade himself, the kid placed in another class, and that’s the end of the story. But he didn’t. He chose to put the teacher into an difficult situation - violate professional ethics and his own personal ehtics in order to appease the parent, or resign.

If the teacher’s syllabus violated BOE policy, then maybe the teacher should have been informed of that when the syllabus was submitted. Likewise, if the administration fails to inform the teacher of the rules violation, well now the onus is on the administration. I find it entirely possible that the teacher had NO IDEA that he was violating the BOE policy until this student’s father complained.

Principal could have made this easy, but he made it hard. He threw a good teacher under the bus with no warning or support. And based on what I’m reading, the principal will pay the price.

By MJ

May 6, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Cheek’s Classmate. We could use more insight such as yours.

By C.R.H.

May 6, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

Linda- it isn’t my “closed minded attitude” that causes the student teacher conflicts (that I don’t think you really know anything about!), its the sorry parenting and the excuses people make when students reap what they sow!! Try walking in my shoes for 1 week, I break up more “conflicts” in one month than you probably have in your entire life. And I stand by my previous statement…let the kid get booed when he gets his diploma, because he is probably calling everyone he knows and bragging about how he got his teacher fired for doing what his sorry excuses for parents didn’t have the intestinal fortitude to do…teach him how to act!

By Karen Armsby

May 6, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

To Cheek’s Classmate, do you know if Cheek cheated on the sonar assignment for which he got the reduced grade? If so you need to report it to your teacher, administrator, principal, and go ahead and tell the superintendent, too.

By Frank

May 6, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

If the student-athlete had been a drama student, or say president of the student council, would he have been treated any differently. If a student can sleep in class and still make a good grade on homework assignements then more power to him. If the teacher has a policy against sleeping in class, then send him to detention. This is a “big story” because it involves grade changes and a student-athlete. I bet if the student wasn’t on the football team then it wouldn’t be a story. The fact that student who slept in class is on the football team is irrevelant.

If the policy states that grade reductions can’t be used for disciplinary issues, then “Doc” is in the wrong - even if the administration at the school hasn’t questioned it before. Firing him for his actions was certainly not the right thing to do. It is truly sad that our society has become so extreme on just about all issues… where are those with rational thoughts who can see both sides without impediments to cloud our judgment.

By barneystrickland

May 6, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

Dear concerned Hebron Nazi- Gosh, I didn’t know that just cuzz everyone does it……. that makes it OK. No, I don’t hate churches…..just a breach of Separation of church and state….. yeah, just wait until some neo-nazi or pro-legalize weed or Satanic group wants to rent a classroom next to Hebron’s little sunday school session. Besides, you never addressed the DAMAGE these little bastards did to O-U-R school property. This is property I PAID FOR through my property taxes. Not exactly community, eh ??

By Dale

May 6, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

Anita—if you were the principal in the Dacula situation and one of your teachers had used grades as discipline— which is in direct violation of long standing school system policy—what would you have told the student’s parent who cited the policy and was threatening to sue you, the teacher and the school system? Who would you back—your teacher or the school system?

Suwanee—No need to use foul language to make your point. Actually—my predisposition is to abide by the rule which clearly states that grades cannot be used as punishment.

By Megan H

May 6, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

I find it absolutely asinine that a teacher of 23 years was fired for doing his job. Why should he let this kid off the hook just b/c he is an “athlete” - not only that but a beloved football player. What are we teaching these kids when we strike out against a teacher for doing his job? At least someone is holding them responsible for their actions. Gw. Co, should feel blessed for having had such a great teacher. Doc Neace was a treasured teacher for many former students, myself included. I was in the Dacula school system from kindergarten to HS graduation and still live there. What has happened is a disgrace. Shame on GCSB for firing the best physics teacher your district will ever see. I am proud Doc Neace stood his ground.

The parent(s) of this so obviously pampered jock are a disappointment. Are you going to spoon feed you kid into adulthood too? Cradle him when he can’t hold down a job at the local Dairy Queen? I don’t know where all these people came from who are living in these dang subdivisions popping up like weeds, but it sure has disrupted our peaceful country lives.

What I don’t get is why all this is happening now, why not 10 years ago when his policy was instituted? Why not say anything when previous students’ grades were docked for the same reason? GCSB, don’t discipline the teacher for “insubordination”, look at yourselves & determine why you chose not to act before. Was it b/c the student wasn’t an athlete or b/c you didn’t do your job reviewing the syllabus? I think that is calling the kettle black - or maybe you are too busy casting the first stone. Either way, it was wrong for him to be fired & the ones to pay the price are the students & the school. Maybe you shouldn’t be so focused on the speck in his eye, and concentrate on the plank in yours.

By Eric Scott

May 6, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Any lazy, let the government educate my kid, parent who has a child in a public school in Georgia should have NOTHING to say about this incident. Pretend you did not know that education is the least important aspect of public school here. You get exactly what you deserve. I applaud that athlete’s family, he’s not learning anything anyway, maybe he’ll get a pro contract and buy you a house with indoor plumbing.

By Gene

May 6, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this

This is only a big story because the first person to write about it chose to include the fact that the student in question was a “football player”. If that had not been mentioned ( if the only description was “student”) this story would never have gained any traction. Do you suppose the fired teacher brought out the fact that the student was a “jock” to call more attention to his story? By describing the student as a football player you can always get a lot of sympathy from all of those people who are envious of Jocks or any other gifted people and look for any opportunity to decry the “system” that recognizes those people for a god given talent that sets them apart.

By Paula

May 6, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this

Sounds like another favoritism senerio for the football team. When I went to school the football team and cheerleaders were everything yet the chorus, band, and other clubs were ignored. Other students are people too. Heaven forbid they treat a precious football player the same as other students. My thumbs up to the teacher who does not play favorites. Dear Doc, please consider running for a county seat. You have my vote.

By Maureen

May 6, 2005 05:50 PM | Link to this

My 2 oldest children have already graduated from Dacula High School. My youngest child is there now. All the years spent in this school system have always kept me amazed. I have always stated that the teachers of today do nothing to prepare these kids for college. I now see why. Would you risk your job to try to have these kids learn? Would you be willing to make kids pay attention and stay awake during class? How many parents have said that sometimes they wonder what their kids were learning in school? You wonder why some kids in high school can not read and write? Wonder no more. It has been proven, they were sleeping!! Never fear though, their grades will not be affected per the Gwinnett County School Board. Have you ever said to your kids that you might as well be talking to a brick wall because of their lack of attention? Think how teachers feel with all the talking and the sleeping going on around them. Why go to college to teach these kids? Aren’t teachers nothing more than glorified babysitters watching these kids sleep in class? Doc Nease was one of the nicest teachers that my oldest ever had. I always admired him for the way my child was kept interested in his class. My child learned in his class. How many of us can say that about a teacher today? I do understand that he is going against a school board policy, I am not questioning that. Maybe we should take a look at this policy. Does it really help our children or should they learn that there are consequences in this world when you break the rules? I guess Dacula High School feels their athletes are above the other kids and need to be well rested for anything athletic after school hours. Does it really make sense to us? I bet it was especially written to be in the “Athletes Book of Policies in Gwinnett County”. I do want to know how come his policy has not been questioned before? As a parent, I am given the “rules” of each teacher at the beginning of the semester and asked to sign papers showing that I read and understand these rules. This is my opportunity to protest these rules if I do not agree with them. Evidently, this football players parents had no complaints then. To think that this kid is above all the others in class because he is a football player is so true in Gwinnett County. The greatest injustice here is to think that my child will not have the opportunity to study under this great teacher because one football player robbed my child of this. I hope that he is the greatest football player that ever lived because he is in for a great shock when he gets in the real world of college and may have to stay awake during school. Will mommy and daddy be there always to rescue him? School is always a place to learn, not only academics and sports, but also discipline. Keep your tired football player at home. I am sure that my non-football playing student would have gotten the same response from Doc but the Nutt would not have bothered to even listen to me. Football is #1 at Dacula and private school is looking great about now. Ruining a man’s life and career because of some spoiled kid who thinks he is better than the rest because he is a football player is pathetic. What a turn off for our future teachers. The school board may not like Doc Nease’s policy, but they should have informed him of this 10 years ago. With graduation 3 weeks away I hope Doc Nease attends. What a shame if he will not be able to see those students who love and admire him graduate. It seems that all have lost in this situation, the teachers, students, parents and future students. The only winner is the football player and his family as they got what they want. I am betting that this victory is not sweet………….

By Jack

May 6, 2005 06:09 PM | Link to this

GWINNETT SCHOOLS IN LOCK STEP/AMERICANS NEED TO THINK BACK TO 1933. Education now in bed with “NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND”. We now comply with National Standards,Yes,schools are not under state control. IS IT ALREADY TOO LATE? Never before in our history have the words of Benjamin Franklin been so correct when he stated “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both” Give control of your schools to the Federal Government, or “Your funds get cut”. The downfall of any republic starts with the loss of the schools by the people. In this environment “We The People” loose every time.The ugly start to this fall is well on the way when Great teachers are crushed under the boot of tyranny. The Bullies will call them unpatriotic .How long will we wait to also be damned as unpatriotic? The academic are always the first to go. Different country Germany 1933,now the USA 2005. Will we stand up or wait until it is TOO LATE ALSO? Those of 1933 never thought it could happen to them either. History is repeating it self as it always does. ARE WE TOO AFRAID TO LOOK BACK? FRIGHTENINGLY THE FOOTSTEPS WE SEE FIT US PERFECTLY,NO ONE QUESTION! THE GWINNETT BOARD OF EDUCATION IS LEADING THIS CRUSADE! WHO IS THE NEXT THEY WILL CALL TRAITOR?????WILL YOU LET THEM BRAND YOU NEXT? Your new federal identification card is ready by the way.”OH! May I See “Your” Papers Please?

By Detective

May 9, 2005 08:16 AM | Link to this

After 23 years as a teacher in an academic school, I feel it is truely harsh to dismiss a teacher of this vast experience! There is no doubt the school board could have used an alternative punishment to make their point. The fact that this teacher has his students integrity and need to fulfill a course requirement is outstanding. Shame on you school board.

By Roger

May 9, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

Come on America and Georgia, all of us need to wake up and see the writing on the wall….! We DO NOT need another Teachers Union, if fact we need to get rid of ALL the teachers unions and get back to BASIC EDUCATION. These kids do not need someone making excuses for them on why they are not learning. They need to learn on their own through discipline and hard work, not Outcome Based Education and feeling sorry for them because they aren’t all equal. If that was the case why is this football played getting special considerations, and we all know he is. The Gwinnett school board NEEDS to do what is right and reinstate this teacher, allow him to punish his students as he sees fit if they disrupt class, sleep, or prevent him from doing the job he is hired to do by the Gwinnett School Board. Not only were grades used as punishment when I went to school, they were also allowed to use physical punishment as well and I NEVER saw my generation of students taking guns to school, NEVER saw my fellow students being killed at school, NEVER saw teachers having to call in the police to stop a situation at my school, we NEVER had to be searched or clear through metal detectors when entering school. But we also didn’t have the government so deep in our lives that prevented our parents from disciplining us when we needed it, and our parents didn’t depend on the schools, and local law enforcement to raise or discipline us either. Get rid of these so called teachers unions, give the teachers back the authority they need to teach and run their class rooms in a manner they see fit to teach our young people to again have respect for themselves and others in life. This teacher needs to be applauded for the actions he took, and the Gwinnett County School Board and this kids parents should be the ones doing the appluading instead of asking for and giving special treatment to a student/athlete.

By Timothy Goss

May 9, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

I had Doc Neace for CP Physics my Junior year. Though I performed poorly in his class, he was one of my 5 favorite teachers from my 3 years at Dacula. The Superintendent (Mr. Nutt) has driven away many excellent teachers from the school because of his indifference to the education of students.

By Tara

May 9, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

I had Doc when I went to Dacula and I remember that policy. I understood that I was there to learn and that if I wanted to take the day off by not paying attention or sleeping in his class that there would be consequences. I disagree with the school board policy because I think it takes control out of the teacher’s hands. They are the ones who see these kids day after day not the school board. They know what is effective in getting students to learn. By putting such restrictions on our teachers we are basically saying please report to school each day and go over this material but who cares if anyone is actually paying attention. That sounds like a great way to improve the education of Georgia students. I’m just greatful that I graduated before the school board had a chance to get rid of all the good teachers. Gwinnett county just lost a great teacher that will go on to make a difference in the lives of students elsewhere. It’s just ashame because Dacula needed to keep any good teachers it still had left. In conclusion the Gwinnett County school board needs to reevaluate it’s policies on how much to regulate how teachers handle their classrooms. To “Doc” I just wanted to let you know that you were one of the best teachers I have ever had and I will always remember you. Best of luck, I know you will go on to do great things somewhere else. 1997 Graduate

By Peter

May 9, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

Any teacher or other educational employee looking for a real advocacy group can find one in the Georgia Association of Educators, GAE.ORG. Fortunately, Doc found GAE many years ago. That is why GAE is helping Doc and paying for his attorneys.

In addition to protect and advocacy, GAE provides many other services to educational employees at the local, state and national level. Check it out today, GAE.ORG!

By Lori "McCreary" Trosper

May 9, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

I graduated from Dacula High in 1993 and currently I am a 5th grade teacher. Doc Neace is an excellent science teacher and he sincerely cares about his students. I took Physics my senior year because I wanted to be in his class. I already had enough science credits to go to college. We rarely needed our Physics book because of his mastery level of knowledge of the subject. Getting a good grade in Physics was easy because he explained the subject with ease. Reducing a student’s daily grade isn’t going to hurt their overall average by very much. I always thought of Doc as being a very fair teacher. I believe that students should be held accountable for their actions. Since Doc’s syllabus states that a student’s assignment grade will be reduced if they fall asleep in class (for over a decade) he shouldn’t be fired. If the principal didn’t agree with this policy he should have asked Doc to change his syllabus before school started. That is part of the principal’s responsibility. Also, any student or parent who had a problem with the syllabus they should have complained about it at the beginning of the year. If we do not hold students accountable for their actions what are we teaching them? I consider Doc’s teaching methods to be very current instead of old fashioned. Many teachers discipline students by reducing grades. A lot of teachers include a participation grade in with student’s academic scores. A participation grade is designed so students will pay attention in class. Doc, thank you for being such a great teacher and standing up for what is right.

By Karen Armsby

May 9, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

If you GOOGLE ‘Larry Doc Neace’ you will see that across the country, news services, educators, college websites, and even political blog sites are commenting on Doc Neace’s firing, and most are supporting Doc! I hope the GCPS administration and board are paying attention. You may have won the battle to have Doc fired, but you lost your academic integrity.

By Stacy "Foote" Gray

May 9, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

I am also a Dacula alumni, class of ‘93, and now a parent of a Gwinnett County student. Dacula and the Board have done a GREAT disservice to their students. I don’t know how they sleep at night, knowing what they have done to deprive the students of such a great teacher.

By danielle

May 9, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

So, is this student so perfect, that he has never broken a Gwinnett County rule? He has always worn required clothing? Never copied, cheated, or commited plagerism? Never left the room for any reason without permission? And since he knows so much that he is able to sleep during a physics lab, and still do the assignment right, he can tutor the students who lost out on a great teacher, so they don’t have a long term sub who knows nothing about physics. After all, finals are coming up. And, let’s hope he doesn’t change schools since he is such a great football player, he was worth such a big complaint. Oh, if he’s such a rule follower and great kid, why doesn’t he proudly show his face and state his name for the community? He is a great role model for all students is Gwinnett County.

By Jana

May 9, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

At first I excuse my english because I am an exchange student from Germany. I live in America and go to Dacula High School for about one year. And the only thing I can say about Doc and all this is that the student should be happy that he got at least the half of the points; in germany they would never give half of the points but a 0 for the grade. It is terrible in my point of view to fire a teacher like because of this. And also football is not what the school should be focused on. Education is the important thing! Thank you for reading!

By Teacher Too

May 9, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, this termination raises a whole new pandora’s box of questions. If a teacher cannot use grades as a means of discipline, what happens when a student cheats? Can I not give that student a zero grade? That would be a measure of disciple regarding the student’s grade. What about late work? If a grade cannot be used as a means of discipline, then are teachers supposed to take late work whenever a student decides to complete an assignment and turn it in?

What I have decided to do is not accept any late work (other than assignments that are considered make-up work from absences). Then, I don’t have to worry about discipling with grades- no assignment, a zero grade. Phone calls are coming in to my school already regarding this very situation.

I believe in public education; I am a product of public education, except for one miserable year when I went to private school. Trust me, lazy teachers are found in private schools just like they are in public schools. I have now taught in the public school system for 16 years, and I still believe that there are many public schools that have excellent teachers who challenge students and promote an outstanding learning environment.

We need to renew our commitment to our students and give consequences that are appropriate- even if it means lowering a grade for an inappropriate action ( such as academic dishonesty or even late work).

By James

May 9, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

I have followed this story since it broke because I was an athlete in HS that did some sleeping in class. While I’m not in favor of the teacher’s firing, I believe that his policy was WRONG. The bottom line is that there is a difference between handling class behavior issues and grading work assignments. A perfect grade on an assignment is just that, a perfect grade. The fact that he may have been sleeping in class is a discipline/conduct issue that could be handled any number of ways. If he can discount students’ grades based on their conduct, why not for their dress or hair color. The teacher’s policy simply was so arbitrary that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. The most disappointing part of this story has been the community response to villify the student whose grade was slashed for all the wrong reasons. In my opinion, the principal didn’t give preferential treatment to an athlete. He stood up against a policy that could penalize students for doing good work.

By Jennifer

May 9, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Doc—This is so unfair! Your policy was and is fair. I have no doubt that you will find a job in a district where you’ll be appreciated. Shame on GSB.

This case is EXACTLY what’s wrong with Georgia’s schools. Gwinnett will lose this lawsuit, without a doubt. Giving a zero for cheating is disciplining with grades, giving students a participation grade is disciplining with grades. It all depends on the spin you put on it. Technically, grades themselves are a form of discipline: you’re disciplining a child for not mastering the material.

This child slept in class & did not do the lab. I believe he cheated (I saw it many times in my own class). He’s lucky that he got half credit.

By Christine

May 9, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

I have known “the student” since the second grade and ever since I have thought that he was amazingly smart. However, his actions divert my thoughts. I remember that in the sixth grade he dropped out of the gifted program because he couldn’t eat lunch with the football players and he was just “too cool” to be smart. Since then, I have observed him as the most pompous jerk in Dacula, even before all of this happened. Since Doc was taken out of the classroom, Wesley has joined my physics class. Let’s just say, I have never felt more hatred towards him. My physics teacher even made it clear to the students that there was no way that Wesley was going to fall asleep in his class. Then, just last week, he did. Crymes yelled louder than I have heard before. It took so much strength in me to stay seated and not stand up and applaud him. I am absolutely disgusted to be a student at Dacula. Mr. Nutt, with whom I spoke to a week prior to all of this, seemed to be very supportive of the students and any academic team, such as the Odyssey of the Mind. However, because we were not a sports team, he said that the school would not be able to fund our trip to the World Competition later this month. Surprise, surprise. Even the teachers have made comments regarding the fact that we do not have the school’s support in our trip. I, personally, am shocked that Nutt would pull this crap out of his sleeve. Afterall, this is the same man that changed one offense to the school so that we would not appear on the “dangerous schools” list. Dacula, in my opinion, is not even worth it. Why are we making such a big deal over a grade that wouldn’t have mattered that much anyways. Is that why you did this Wesley? A FRACTION of a point?!?! Was it that detrimental? I seriously hope that one day you can admit that GOD FORBID you did something wrong! The Gwinnett County School System has gone crazy! I applaud those of you who support Doc and the one judge at the hearing that was the odd-man out (in the 4-1 vote) Though Doc Neace was never my teacher, I have never heard a bad word about him. I am deeply saddened about this case and I know that Dacula is losing a wonderful man. I do suppose that we shall start focusing on our athletics even more now. So, students, throw your books and papers out the window; they don’t matter now. Just perform your best in the sport of your choice, grades, and therefore your future, don’t matter now! It’s all about the sports that will get you through the rest of your life!! Forget about going to Yale or Harvard…it’s time to buckle down and bulk up because your career in athletics is about to begin. Don’t worry if you are too tired the next day…you can sleep in class, afterall, you are the athlete. And I’m sure that if there are any problems with grades, your teacher will be barred from school immediately. So DON’T WORRY Now this is to you, Doc. I know that you don’t know me, but you know Travis. I know that you had quite the impact on his life and I feel good knowing that you did. Thank you for teaching him. He supports you so much and we both know that this will all work out in the end. Any school would be amazingly lucky to have you and I feel very confident that you will have as much of an impact on their lives as you did to the students at Dacula. Keep with your policy, it’s a good one and just because some whiny football player went home and cried to his daddy because his ego was more important, don’t let that stop you. Fight this as long as you see fit and never let anyone change your beliefs. You don’t need Dacula anyways. 23 years of teaching vs. a fraction of a point. hmm…makes you wonder….

By BethAnne

May 9, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

In Georgia, Football is more important than learning in the classroom. Nice to know we have our priorities straight: Football and all athletics are more important than learning NOT. I hope the teacher still gets his pension and gets a book deal.

By Bill B

May 10, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

I shudder to think what disciplinary action the football coach would have taken had the student slept during football practice! Do you think the administration have interfered in that???

By Karen Armsby

May 10, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

I think this situation can be salvaged with both sides gaining a favorable and face-saving outcome. It would take concessions by both sides, adjustment of the wording of Board Policy and a change of Doc’s policy on his syllabus. And it should be carried out with the guidance of a registered third party neutral, also known as a mediator. In the process maybe the school system can examine the process used in this case and adjust its policy of how adminstrators handle GCPS business with the teachers who are handling the educating. Everyone lost in this situation. Gwinnett County Schools lost a great teacher and is getting a lot of bad press. Doc Neace’s stellar career has been put in jeopardy, and the most damaged are the Dacula HS physics’ students lost their teacher at a critical time in the semester. If both sides can admit that a series of misunderstandings, miscues, mishandlings and mistakes were made, and then work to a reasonable adjustment, then GCPS can save face, Doc can resume teaching, and the students can salvage their learning. I challenge the GCPS to request that the School Board to call a special session to reconsider the decision to terminate Doc Neace, to call for a mediation, and to resolve this amicably. It is not just about who’s the boss and the letter of the law, it’s about each side caring for the human outcome of students learning.

By former parent

May 10, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

To Karen Armsby - Good idea, but it won’t happen. NOBODY goes up against the football mafia (Nutt, Maloof, TD club)

By Dub Wright

May 10, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

I served on a School Board in Texas for 8 years in a district of about 40,000 students and I cannot believe a teacher was fired for requiring accountability and responsibility!

I am a college professor and no wonder I get the “deer in headlights look” when I do not accept late papers, or drop them a grade for not attending classes. They are often “well trained” to not be responsible workers in k-12.

I wonder when the coaches will be willing to “give them a first down because they almost made it” or maybe “gee the ball almost went in the basket so lets give them a point for trying” - “she really tried hard so lets give her that serve” or maybe, “he has some hardship in his family and he has a good heart so lets give him 3 self-esteem points for trying to make that touchdown.”

Coaches put incredible pressure on administration who puts the pressure on teachers - Why aren’t the same rules applied to them!!

We did have a teacher who refused to raise the grade of a star football player who was became academically inelegible due to his sleeping in class which was posted as unacceptable behavior with grade consequences. We had the courage to back the teacher when it came to us. Shame on that school board!!!

By Karen Armsby

May 10, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

To former parent, Thanks! We can but hope that cooler heads could now think creatively and act positively to turn this situation around. After all, many large businesses use mediation to resolve conflicts. Mediation is a process that helps parties talk to each other in a productive manner, and is not the destructive process we witnessed at the hearing. The goal of mediation is a win-win situation, not win-lose, or what happened here, lose lose.

By Jim

May 10, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

What a Fool. “Hi honey, I’m home and I just got fired from my $66K job, lost my pension and health care coverage. What’s for dinner?”

By James

May 10, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

Just reading the responses on this blog makes me believe that there are deeper issues here than just education and football. It seems as if there is some jealousy or some other mechanism at work here. The student did the assignment as required and deserved a perfect score. Please tell me what that has to do with football. Hell, it’s not even football season and it doesn’t sound as if the student’s eligibility was on the line. So what’s the real issue here? The principal should’ve been aware of the teacher’s policy and outlawed it once he found it to be contradictory to the school policy. Should the student be punished for the pricipal’s shortcomings? Of course not! On the other hand, the policy of lowering grades because of classroom behavior is ridiculous. This type of policy is a way for the teacher to exert totalitarian control over each student in the class. Anything that he believes is unacceptable is grounds for a reduction to grades for unrelated course work. That could go as far as the clothes or hairstyle the student chooses for his/her self. If the entire point of going to school is to learn, then this policy overreaches the teacher’s and school’s responsibility to the students. Maybe the parents of Gwinnett Count are okay with the school system raising their kids. The worst part is that there are people that actually accused this student of cheating are being speaking on matters that they can’t possibly have direct knowledge of. I just wish that some of these parents and so-called community activists will realize that life is not perfect and things will happen that you have no control over or seem unfair. This is not the end of the world and Doc lost his job because he was just as stubborn and unwilling to find a solution just like the school board. The only innocent person in this whole ordeal is the football player who took a catnap and did his work as assigned. The grownups are the ones that are making this a huge issue when it simply doesn’t warrant it.

By former parent

May 10, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

Thank you James/Barry for your comments.

By Thenx fer the grate edukashun, Dacula

May 10, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Ahh yes, James/Barry. The only one who could possibly conclude that his son, er, wait, I mean the sleeping student, was the innocent victim.

By danielle

May 10, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

To the few who think the teacher should have been fired, how did the student get a perfect score on a lab when he was sleeping?? I still say, since this kid is so smart, let him tutor and help all the other students (five other classes that had nothing to do with this mess). Finals are coming up. Also, if his family did the right thing, they should proudly show themselves and speak up for their actions of complain. This kid doesn’t ever break any rules right??

By Stunned

May 10, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Um, for those of you supporting the student or Karen’s mediation idea: How is it possible to sleep through a physics lab and in 10 minutes turn in a perfect score? Once this student gets further in his education, he is in huge trouble. Mistakes in Citations of term papers can lead to disciplinary action in most Universities (plagerism). They need not be intentional, it is expected that you are responsible for your actions. Your attendance in often calculated in your final grade as many professors assign a point value for particiapation and attendance. On the other hand, possibly this student should be commended for the ability to sleep through class and in mere minutes turn in a 100% assignment. This being the case, the loss of “Doc” is lessened as we have a perfect solution right in our faces.

By James is Right

May 10, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

“I just wish that some of these parents and so-called community activists will realize that life is not perfect and things will happen that you have no control over or seem unfair” Yes, I wish this spoiled brat and his annoying parents would realize that. You are absolutely correct in that statement, James. Bravo for your insight.

By megan H

May 10, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

FYI from a former student of Doc Neace’s:

Regular Board meetings are held on the second Thursday of each month at 7 p.m. In 2005, the only exception occurs in June. Meetings are held in the Board Room at Lawrenceville East, 723 Hi-Hope Road in Lawrenceville. A schedule of 2005 meetings appears below. Citizens are encouraged to attend so that they can become better acquainted with the operation and programs of the school system.

2005 Board of Education Meetings: January 13, February 10, March 10, April 14, May 12, June 23, July 14, August 11, September 8, October 13, November 10, and December 8

Procedures for Addressing the Board: The agenda is prepared in advance of each meeting. Anyone wishing to speak before the Board should inform the Superintendent’s office in writing by noon on the Monday prior to the Board meeting. Items for the agenda may be suggested by any Board member, staff member, or citizen.

Before each regular meeting, a public forum is held at 6:30 p.m. to allow persons not on the agenda an opportunity to address the Board. Citizens may sign up at the Board meeting to speak during the 30-minute public forum period. Speakers are asked to keep their comments brief, and no Board action is taken.

By former parent

May 11, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

After reading Ms. Armsby’s comment yesterday, I would like to add the following. To the parent, I hope you would do the right thing and encourage some mediation. I have to give you credit for standing up for your child, but this is a no win situation and a good teacher lost his job. So lets just say there were 2 wrongs and no one wins.

As a parent of a former player, let me urge you to get into your son’s life and make sure he is on the right course. I know of what I am speaking. I know what some of these football players get into in high school and I would hate for you to find out later what was happening. We need to move on now and get over this. It would show a great man if you were to encourage the school board to do what Ms. Armsby said. Think about it please.

By Karen Armsby

May 11, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Good Morning former parent and thanks again. To the student’s parent I would like to say that I don’t think Doc’s firing really had anything to do with your student being an athlete, even if you may have expressed that to the principal. From all of the former DHS teachers I have spoken to, they said that Nutt wanted Doc gone, and the opportunity simply presented itself.

I had two high school athletes who graduated at the top of their classes, and did very well in their sports of cross country, swimming, and soccer. One daughter now runs cross country and track at Georgia Tech and is majoring in mechanical engineering. I know how much time, effort and discipline it takes for athletes to balance practice, studies, and also perform well for the team at meets or games.

I hope that the Superintendent and School Board are listening to the community and find a way to do what is right for Dacula High School students and reinstate Doc Neace.

By Karen Armsby

May 11, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

I would like to thank the ajc and their blog managers for providing this platform for all of us to express our opinions, explain the facts, and vent our frustrations. This is truly a community forum where all are welcome. Thank You!

By another teacher

May 11, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

Although it seems to be the minority opinion, I am still stunned at the level of support the student seems to be getting in this case.

First, as a parent (of a senior and an 8th grader), my only response to my children complaining of losing points because they were sleeping in class would be, “Well, you shouldn’t have been sleeping!” NO SYMPATHY!!! What are you people who support this thinking? How can you possibly think this is OK?

Second, as a teacher (a science teacher, I might add), I believe that there is a difference between taking points off for discipline and having a participation policy. My lab grades consist of two parts - the write-up and participation. You can’t complete a lab without participation - someone else is taking up the slack for you. It is quite possible that the student simply copied (cheating?????) the work from his lab group or partners. If Doc had that policy clearly spelled out in his syllabus which had to be approved by administration and signed by the parents each year, then neither the student nor the board have any justification for their complaint.

A rhetorical question: does talking during a testing constitute discipline or cheating? Does horseplay which results in injury during a lab constitute inappropriate paticipation or discipline? Does leaving your group during groupwork constitute failure to complete assignment or discipline? Does sleeping during a lab constitute a failure to participate or cheating?

You tell me.

By danielle

May 11, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

to another teacher, you said it exactly. That is what I have been asking too. Has this student never done anything wrong himself? Where do we (teachers) draw the line? I work in special education, but started out as a sub and have seen/heard first hand in middle and high schools what teachers in regular education classes go through every day. I have subbed in labs regularly and have noticed there are always students who don’t pay attention, copy the work off partners, yet turn the work in as their own. I would leave a note for the teachers. When I saw the teachers they would not be surprised at the student’s behavior….it’s always the same kids over and over again.

By Joselyn

May 11, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

I had Doc Neace for 3 years: Chem I, Physics, and Chem II (12 years ago, Dacula didn’t have AP science classes). His classes were interesting, his demeanor was cheerful, and he treated the students with the respect due to adults, not children. He was universally liked, whether you found his class hard or easy.

He was without question the best teacher I had in 12 years at Dacula. His classes fully prepared me to go on to Georgia Tech, unlike many of the joke classes I had in high school. I always thought of him as our Jaime Escalante (Stand and Deliver).

I understand that a school which goes from A to AAAAA in 10 years will have some growing pains. I also understand that there are two sides to every story. However, this seems to boil down to a principal who finally found the opportunity to fire a teacher who didn’t share his vision. It’s truly a loss for the DHS kids who will never get to be inspired by Doc as I was.

(And people continue to send their children to government schools! Look at the mess it makes of the intersections and budget; there’s no way I’m trusting the govt. to educate my children!)

Doc Neace, you’re in my prayers - I know that whatever comes next for you will be even better, because you deserve it. (My kids’ homeschool group is looking for a teacher of the sciences!)

By Stacy

May 11, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Jocelyn must be modest, so I’ll tell on her… voted “Most Likely to Succeed” & Star Student with Doc as her Star Teacher :)

By Anita

May 12, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Dale asked me what I would have done were I the principal in this sitation…here’s my answer (late because I’ve been away for a few days)…

From what I’ve gathered in reading this forum and related articles, I can say I would have done just about everything differently.

When I received the complaint from the parent, I would have spoken to the teacher in private. We would have discussed what happened, I would have asked the questions I needed to to ascertain the reasons for the teacher’s actions, the penalties assigned, how this fit into the classroom, etc. I would have had a similar conversation with the parent to gather information about the complaint.

Then, and only then, I would bring the two together to discuss and mediate. The parent and teacher would come into my office together—no suggestion of partiality on either side. If either party raised their voice or used abusive or inappropriate language, they would be immediately called down, and if that continued, the conversation would have been terminated until the out of control party was able to carry on a reasoned, adult conversation. I have never in my professional life tolerated or engaged in offensive and insulting dialogue with a parent, teacher, or staff member.

I also would not have asked the teacher to change the grade in front of the parent. In this situation, I wouldn’t have asked the teacher to change the situation at all, since to me, this seems to be clearly a case of academic discipline, not social, which is what I interpret this policy to mean.

I’m getting long here, so I’ll wrap it up. If I had been the principal, given what I know, I would have been standing next to the teacher, to my teacher, in that board meeting. I would be taking the heat, as the administrator who approved that syllabus year after year. I would have been right there, arguing vociferously for the teacher’s right to set classroom policies that were fair and promoted learning, the ONLY mission of the school. I would have never thrown a teacher under the bus that way, even if the teacher was in the wrong. A good administrator knows how to truly deal with teachers who are not doing the job, and can do so without dragging the student body and an entire school community into a painful public production.

By Karen Armsby

May 13, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

Anita, Can you come be the Principal at Dacula HS? We have lost too many good teachers and need to turn this situation around. Doc Neace’s firing is just the tip of the iceberg of faculty problems at Dacula under Nutt.

By Jennifer Coleman

May 16, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

As a teacher, I am sadden to learn that once again parents get their way. Public school teachers will never have a chance as long as school boards give in to parents. This is the main reason I decided to leave public schools and go to private schools. Teachers today are not valued and do not have a chance!

By Danielle

May 17, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know what has come of the student involved? I have heard and read that he has always been a “slacker”. Does he seem to care about any of this?

By Sue

May 18, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

And we wonder why American schools have fallen so far behind other countries and why so many foreign students are filling our medical and engineering schools? Wake up people! The parents should have supported the teacher, the school board should have praised him.

What are these students going to do when they get in the real world? Do you think they will be able to compete with motivated students in college? Do you think employers will pay them to stick their head on their desks and sleep? They had a responsibility to be awake and participate in class and if they couldnt’ be bothered to do so they should have their grade lowered. Final product isn’t the only consideration in a grade.

This teacher should have no trouble finding a job in another county and Gwinnett’s school board members are idiots to let a fine instructor like him go.