Get Schooled

By Dee

February 17, 2005 08:13 AM | Link to this

My sons are taking the ACT and the SAT The SAT is marketed heavily in Georgia but most colleges Nationwide accept either score The difference in the test means that some students will do better on the SAT and some better on the ACT

By JOE A. BRYANT

February 17, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

WHETHER GEORGIA IS 49TH OR 50TH IS NOT REALLY INDICATIVE OF WHETHER STUDENTS ARE LEARNING. WE HAVE BEEN LURED INTO THIS IDEA OF STANDARDIZED TESTING THAT HAS THE ENTIRE NATION IN A FRENZY. IN THE MEANTIME, THE TEST MAKERS IN PRINCETON ARE LUAGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK. SOLUTION: ALLOW ALL STUDENTS TO ENTER COLLEGE REGARDLESS OF GPA. BY THE END OF THE FIRST SEMESTER GRADING PERIOD, WE WILL HAVE A PERFECT INDICATOR AS TO WHO CAN SUCCEED IN COLLEGE AND WHO CANNOT. WHY SHOULD WE SPEND MILLIONS ON SAT AND ACT PREP WHEN WE CAN WAIT 4 MONTHS AND GET THE SUREFIRE RESULTS ?

By Dan

February 17, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

Ga being 49th is unquestionably indicative. While there are always exceptions to any ranking system there is also a very strong corelation between standardized test scores and college success.

By Larry Jones

February 17, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

The SAT is not widely taken in a lot of states. For instance, Alabama students typically take the ACT. This is true in many states. The students in these states that are taking the SAT to go to schools out of their state or Ivy League schools are usually high achievers and score well on the SAT. This is the reason that their state averages are higher than states like Georgia where the majority of college bound students are taking the SAT.

By Joe M

February 17, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Mr Bryant:

That sounds all well and good, but who pays for a “wasted” semester? What about housing an incoming class of 10,000 freshmen at UGA every fall, only to need housing for 4,000 for the next semester?

The SAT and ACT are fine. You can’t escape life always complaining that something is too stressful, intimidating, etc.

Being from Louisiana, I long ago realized that it’s exceptionally easy to tweak whatever survey you like to achieve your desired results (more funding… For the children!) Hence, South Carolina, Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and Mississippi can all claim to be 49th and 50th and all be happy.

By Robin

February 17, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

I think that the SAT/ACT testing has some validity but it shouldn’t be the sole basis for students getting into college. You should take into count other items for deciding on entrance into a school. Some kids no matter what they know cannot do well on standardized test.

By Jonathan

February 17, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

I graduated from high school in 1999 and found that my performance on standardized tests correlated very closely with how I performed in college. Conversely, my friends that had extraordinary GPAs that did not perform well on standardized tests did not do well in college. Too often teachers help to sugar-coat grades and these standardized tests are the surest way to measure one student’s potential against other students who may not have benefited from “doctored” grades.

By Lucinda Ballard

February 17, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

Hey, I got the question of the day on the first go!!!!!! Do I get a cookie???? I actually computed it a bit differently than the explanation gives, but they both amount to the same basic configuration. And yes, that was one of the easy ones.

For those who haven’t give it a shot, here goes: “The odometer of a new automobile functions improperly and registers only 2 miles for every 3 miles driven. If the odometer indicates 48 miles, how many miles has the automobile actually been driven?” [Answer choices: 144 / 72 / 64 / 32 or 24]

My stance on standardized is like that of many truly concerned educators - as long as we present these test as the SOLE method for measuring students’ competency and intelligence quotient, we will ALWAYS be fighting a losing battle!!! It doesn’t matter if they change it every 5 or 10 years or keep giving the same tests for the next 150 years, the SAT - right along with all the other BS modes of measurement - only tell us how well a student tests and how well he/she has mastered the art of rote memorization and other ‘shortcuts’ to true learning. I hope our school system officials and politicians will soon wake up and begin to truly put the kids’ learning FIRST. Test-taking and the results thereof DO NOT demonstrate one’s aptitude!!! We need to incorporate other assesments that include hands-on applications, oral presentations, long-term projects of various kinds, etc.

And we wonder why the ‘A’ students always end up working for the ‘B’ and ‘C’ students. True learning is rarely (if ever) measured on a standardized test.

I’m an African-American college educated individual and I’m commited to educating. I’m an Atl resident, but reared in rural GA and while I’m sickened and saddened with the state of education in GA and the nation, I believe there’s hope. My greatest wish is that we will somehow, someday get back to a focus on true learning…the measure of which lies not in a standardized and timed test.

Says Mark Twain: “I’ve never let my schooling interfere with my education.”

Says I: “I never let my formal education interfere with my true learning.”

By Teach

February 17, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

As a teacher that has taught in high school, at the junior college and senior college level, we have a problem in society and in education. Students are leaving high school with excellent grade point averages. Yet, they cannot perform in the classroom. The junior college I taught at had a drop-out rate of 79%. Should corporations be asked to take on these employees or should they outsource their work to countries better prepared to do the work (often at a lower wage)? Should colleges be forced to admit students that are ill-prepared to perform in the classroom? Will education (k-12) ever have control over its own product or will it continue to be frozen below a mound of legislation (i.e. No-Child Left Behind)? Shouldn’t legislators be forced to send their kids to inner city schools?

By Amy

February 17, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

Regarding the 79% dropout rate from the junior college…that almost sounds “normal” to me. Most kids nowadays only want to go to college for a semester or a year, and then they usually decide they want to do something else. I do not necessarily think that college is for everyone. Some people are more hands-on types of learners, and would do well in construction or other types of manual labor jobs. Don’t look for too many of those 79% to be “corporate giants”—most of them wouldn’t want to be, I’m guessing.

By ADL

February 17, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

To Joe A. Bryant Your idea about everyone starting college sounds simple except for one problem. The students that can’t succeed will soon be crying that the courses are unfair and the college is discriminating against them because they can’t do the work. In no time at all the colleges will be dumbed-down just like the public schools are now. You have to draw the line somewhere.

By Richard

February 18, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

I’ve known several children who moved to Georgia and bragged that they were well ahead of the class they were entering. I was disappointed to hear this since, my children, who are attending some of the highest rated schools in Georgia, are all taking classes and subjects that dumbfound me, even though I have a doctorate. I would suggest that we send a fact finding group of kids to South Dakota, and to New Jersey for one week of classes, and send their kids to our schools for the same period and then have a roundtable discussion of what is or isn’t right with our schools. I’m not talking about the inner city schools where the children have little support from their single parent, but in the suburbs that are scoring well. Lets really see if the STATE’s Programs are working or if they need help.

By cp

February 18, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

What is the purpose and goal of the SAT? It was invented to give colleges and universities a way to predict who will be successful at their institutions. They can’t aford to admit everyone and waste the first year sorting it out (a ridiculous proposal).

Is it perfect? Of course not, but it’s the best we have, and most respected universities believe it is a good indicator.

THEREFORE — doesn’t it follow that it is also a good measure of how well our public school system is performing. Sure GA has a high percentage of students taking the SAT, but so do other states — about a third of them I think. So how do we rank among those states? Here’s a clue — we’re 49th out of all states.

Being the worst (or next to worst) of wahtever sized group you want to examine is terrible. Disgusting. Unacceptable. And it costs us money.

When a company looks to re-locate, the local school system is one of the key issues. They want a measurement. What do you suppose they look at. SAT scores. Then they go elsewhere.

I like Richard’s idea, except I would send teachers. Let’s get the politicians out of it.

But the first step on the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I am so sick of the argument that SAT scores don’t matter in GA because we are different from anybody else. Horse feathers.

By cp

February 18, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

Lucinda, thanks for posting the question of the day. What a great question! I challenge anyone to show how this question is: 1) Not relevant 2) Unfair to some group 3) Not an indicator of one’s ability to apply simple arithmatic — multiplication, division, fractions, and a bit of algebra.

If you can’t do this question, don’t apply at GaTech.

Does the SAT screen out people who have not mastered the material? From this one question, I’d say it looks good so far.