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DEL.ICIO.USWhite Lily Flour leaves the South
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
By the end of the month, White Lily Flour, for more than 100 years a staple for biscuits, cakes and pies, will no longer be made in the South.
The flour has been made in the same Knoxville, Tenn., factory for 125 years, where it’s milled to produce the lightest, whitest flour around, one ideally suited for Southern favorites like biscuits. Other flours have higher protein contents, which make them better for sturdier baked goods like breads.
J.M. Smucker, which bought the White Lily brand in 2006 from C.H. Guenther & Sons, will continue making the flour at facilities in the Midwest. But many cooks are worried that the flour won’t be the same, according to a story in today’s New York Times. The newspaper got a few cooks to do a blind-baking test of flour milled in Knoxville, and the new version produced in the land of hard winter wheat. The results weren’t scientific, but they were unanimous: Cooks said they could tell the difference, and that the new White Lily flour didn’t produce the tender biscuits that the old one does.
Do you use White Lily? We’ve heard some fans are buying it up and freezing it to ensure a supply for a few more months. Have you? What do you think about the milling operation for this most Southern of flours — the best-selling flour in Atlanta — to the Midwest?
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Comments
By FCM
June 18, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Say it isn’t so. First the South does not need more business pulling out. Economy down here doesn’t need that kind of impact.
Second, how can you make good southern food with Yankee flour?
By Magnolia
June 18, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Southern cooks unite! Don’t mess with our White Lily. No White Lily - no biscuits - no need for Smuckers!
By DARNELL
June 18, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
THEY NEED TO GET ALL THEM LILY WHITE PEOPLE OUT OF THE SOUTH! THE SOUTH NEED TO BE RUN GO THE GOOD BLACK PEOPLE THAT WORKED SO HARD TO MAKE THIS COUNTRY WORK! THE LESS WHITE WE HAVE IN THE SOUTH THE BETTER!!!!
By Mr. Smuckers
June 18, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
“With a name like Smuckers, it has to be good!”
By jct
June 18, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
This is a shame. As a former New Englander, I can tell the difference of biscuits made White Lily and other brands.
Only upside (maybe), is that I may lose the biscuit weight that I have gained since I moved here.
By HUD
June 18, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Yeah Darnell. You can do with the entirity of the south what you’ve done with Clayton County.
Fact is, you are too stupid to run things yourself.
By Concerned
June 18, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
My mother is rolling over in her grave at this news about her favotite flour. Great grammar Darnell, you’d fit right in down in Clayton County; I doubt they’d even notice how stupid you are. You go Darnell, represent. Represent everything I don’t want in my neighborhood…but you do represent. Idiot.
By HUD
June 18, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Yeah Darnell. You can do with the entirety of the south what you’ve done with Clayton County.
Fact is, you are too stupid to run things yourself.
By No No No!
June 18, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
I am stricken! No real White Lily flour??? I have been using White Lily for years (as my mother taught me to) and swear by it. My mid-western husband claims there is no difference in flour - but I KNOW there is.
I can’t believe they would change such a dependable product! There are chefs who specifically write in recipes to use White Lily. I will HAVE to buy flour and freeze it.
By Mike Woolley
June 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Good Grief! I just saw the other day that Sophie Mae peanut brittle is gone and now White Lily. What’s next? Coke? Moving The Varsity to Dayton, Ohio? Lewis Grizzard, a Great American, is turning over in his grave.
By Michael
June 18, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
More of Corporate America Garbage. 1 + 1 does not always equal 2. There are such things as intangibles.
By elsru
June 18, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
No, this can’t be true. White Lily is the only flour to use for biscuits. What a shame!!
By Jonny
June 18, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
It’s a real shame, White Lily going Yankee, I think. I hope the Southern Republicans remember how they are supposed to be “pro-business” when they complain their biscuits are no where near how their mama’s were…
Will be stockpiling White Lily in the deep freeze, for sure.
By kam
June 18, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
umm, HUD?
i think that darnell was making a joke. lighten up dumb a*.
By DARNELL
June 18, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
YOU DONT SPEAK FOR ME HATER! THE LILY WHITES LIKE YOU IS WHAT WRONG WITH THE SOUTH NOW! TAKE YOUR RACIST WHITE SELF SOMEWHERE ELSE!
By RK
June 18, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Well, they are right — it won’t be the same. I think Shirley’s Corriher’s book wrote about the differences between “All-Purpose” flour recipe differences between the south and Canada, as the flours were very different.
By RK
June 18, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Well, they are right — it won’t be the same. I think Shirley’s Corriher’s book wrote about the “All-Purpose” flour recipe differences between the south and Canada, as the flours were very different.
By NumbaOneFan
June 18, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
Darnell, you are one ignorant sumbitch. Dude if I were you I would be ashamed to post on any blog. Your grammar is non existant and it definetly shows you either quit school at the age of 11, or you just slept right throught the wholee damn thing. Are you a minimum wage earner or live of welfare? Darnell I think you should interview for the managing editor of JET Magazine, you are the perfect fit.
By Vaughn
June 19, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Does anyone know whether this change will affect the production of White Lily cornmeal mix? I know White Lily’s cornmeal mix doesn’t garner the same level of devotion as White Lily SR Flour but I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it and will be heartbroken if some crazy midwesterners who think sugar belongs in cornbread mess with the formulation!
By Elizabeth Lee
June 19, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Vaughn, the corn meal is also produced in the Knoxville factory that is closing.
Tell me about the cornmeal — what makes it special? I usually hear about the flour.
And y’all, let’s keep the blog focused on flour. If you want to talk politics or race, there are other blogs where that’s welcome. This one’s for food.
By GB
June 19, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Elizabeth … then why do you allow blogs such as that from Darnell??? Can’t you take his comment off . . it is racists!!! And, to allow his own and that to allow someone to refute it is not right!!! Take his blog off!!!
By GB
June 19, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Elizabeth … then why do you allow blogs such as that from Darnell??? Can’t you take his comment off . . it is racists!!! And, to allow his own and that to allow someone to refute it is not right!!! Take his blog off!!!
By FCM
June 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
GB ‘Darnell’ is posting on all the blogs some hateful comment…I admit I fed the bottom feeder (called Lawrence on that blog) the other day…Just ignore the Troll.
By Wynne Wright
June 19, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
According to the New York Times article a spokesperson for the company who acquired White Lily, Maribeth Badertscher,said “the new White Lily was the result of thorough product testing and promised that customers ‘won’t know the difference.” Upon testing by bakers they clearly were able to distinguish the different flours. It strikes me as case of the industrial food system refusing to recongize that foods are embedded in physical and cultural locales. Not only did they insult all southern cooks (and eaters), but they could have so easily spun this in their favor by acknowledging that there was something special and unique about the firm they purchased. The problem is they have a piece of history and culture but do not know what to do with it.
By Southern Born
June 19, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
I live in the North. I always buy White Lily flour to take home when I am in NC.
It is the best biscuit flour!
By Robbins Mitchell
June 20, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this
Well I guess that now Lily White users are going to have to start buying Martha White Flour instead….
“Now you bake right (uh huh) With Martha White (yes sir) Goodness gracious sakes alive,Martha White, Now you bake better biscuits,cakes,and pies, With Martha White self-rising flour, The one all-purpose flour, Martha White self-rising flour has got ‘Hot Rize’.”
By comp
June 20, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
This is tragic. I lived in Texas for almost 10 years and would come back from trips to the parents with bags of flour in my suitcase. I don’t know if it still exists, but there used to be a website to mail order it directly from TN.
Sad to see another piece of Southern life sacrificed for corporate profits.
By comp
June 20, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
This is tragic. I lived in Texas for almost 10 years and would come back from trips to the parents with bags of flour in my suitcase. I don’t know if it still exists, but there used to be a website to mail order it directly from TN.
Sad to see another piece of Southern life sacrificed for corporate profits.
By Regina
June 20, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this
DARNELL YOU’RE AN IDIOT! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
By Liz
June 20, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
There go my biscuits. Looks like I won’t be buying White Lily anymore … OR Smuckers. Bah.
By Jane
June 20, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
kam good for you for wanting to believe the best in all individuals - unfortunately Darnells next comment (right under yours) proves he was not joking. White Lily is the flour for baking - moving it will be a mistake for many reasons - first and foremost it will not be the same flour. Sticking the name on the bag does not make it the same. The company will LOSE a lot of business by moving this to the midwest. But perhaps that is why they are moving the business as we all know all corporations need loss leaders in other words profit, profit, and carefully placed negatives to achieve maximum profitability and maintain the tax breaks given by our government to large corporate entities.
By Darin
June 20, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
I’d be interested in finding out if any local breakfast restaurants have been using White Lily to make biscuits. What kind of flour is used by places like West Egg, Ria’s, Silver Skillet and others who have been carrying on southern baking traditions? I don’t bake biscuits at home myself, but I sure love to eat the ones other people make!
By Annie
June 20, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe they would remove White Lily from the South! That’s like taking away our grits! I agree with Magnolia, no biscuits - no need for Smuckers jams or jellies! Without White Lily being made the same way it has been for EVER there will be no more Mmmmm good bisuits! Please tell me it ain’t so!
By Miss Brenda
June 20, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
My secret ingredient that allows me to continue ruling my local county fair just went up in smoke! The vast majority of bakers in my area don’t know about White Lily, and that gave me an advantage. King Arthur? Washington flour? NOT good enough!
Are the new owners reformulating the product? Why can’t they continue using the same wheat and just mill it in their facility?
By Trill
June 20, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
I wish White Lily flour would stay and ignorant people like Darnell would leave.
By ChknLtL
June 20, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Suggest you make Smuckers aware of the responses you’ve gotten to this article. If the company can see a marketing benefit, it might rise to the challenge and try harder to make a product more like the original, superior one, perhaps even in the same mill. The cost of communicating with them would be low and if you’re successful, everyone could benefit.
By Liz S.
June 20, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
It’s important that comments like Darnell’s not be deleted. His postings are a pertinent and timely reminder that racism is driven by ignorance and not skin color. So, post away, Darnell, and educate us all about the realities of America in 2008.
By Martha White
June 20, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Glad to see that loose hussy gettin’ outta here.
By David
June 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Hey Darnell:
Get your racist a* to Mugabe-ville, where you belong, you vile scum.
This is America, where your kind of racist cr*p doesn’t fly.
Get lost.
Now.
A*e.
By Loretta Clark
June 23, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
What a terrible mistake…..I have used White Lily flour for the past fifty yrs. and it is the best. Of course we all have heard….good things can’t last. Well, here is an example. To change any part of the White Lily flour is a “cruel and inhuman act”…..shame on you!Will never forgive you!!!
By Nathalie Dupree
June 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
In talks with J.M. Smucker I have found out that, as I thought, White Lily has long been made in a second mill, located in Ohio in the middle of Red Winter Wheat country. There is NO “new White Lily”. This mill, as old as the one in Knoxville, has been milling it a very long time. The Knoxville address on the side of the package is the distribution address, and since they longer distribute from Knoxville (they were not able to buy the mill) they are distributing from Memphis. (One of their other mills was destroyed in a hurricane.) White Lily’s formula has not changed. Apparently some “unaged” flour was sent to the New York Times in error. Since it takes time to age the product it didn’t work the same. Don’t worry! Our flour will be the same! They know the importance to the consumer and will strive to keep it the same product we love.
By cheree cleghorn
June 25, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
This is a genuine loss to the tradition of Southern baking. It’s tempting to make jokes about Yankee flour (I have) but White Lilly is a national favorite of baking experts. It is not overdoing it to say that, among people who know baking, it is a national treasure.
The question is what we can do about it. Ideas? Protests? Boycotting Smuckers products? Going to its annual meeting with protest signs?
All of these are rear-guard actions.
Who can stop this from happening? Let’s find that person and make our case.
By scott
July 2, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
maybe tennessee ernie ford was right then about martha white after all.
By Dickie
July 14, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
There are better products to top your bisquits than Smuckers! Shop your local stores for local products. Wallmart(ie. national companies) may cost you less short term, but they kill the local products eventually. Spread it around (pun intended)by e-mail, beauty parlor or how ever! Boycott Smuckers until they return Lily home!
By pompy
July 14, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Well, that is a depressing news about the best biscuit flour. Our Southern biscuits will never be the same again. Darnell, where did you learn to speak English? Hate to say this, but, you are more racist than typical white people. If you hate white people so much, just go somewhere where there is none because they were here before you got here long ago. Can you show us where your race is successful running any Government? I am a minority as well. Why the hate! Cheer up!!!
By Beck
July 29, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
I always put my trust in White Lily. It is a shame Knoxville lost out,even if it is just a distribution center. I live about 100 miles from there. Jobs are scarce in this area. I won’t use Martha White hardest biscuits I’ve ever made. When you worked with White Lily, you could actually feel the difference in the flours. I hope we will continue to get the same product though it has moved.
By gee
September 18, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
I just spoke with a representative of Smuckers regarding this issue and she said the recipe has not changed. Also, they’ve been using the new plant (with more update equipment) for 2 years now.
I don’t know why anyone would believe anything the New York Times writes about. But to each it’s own. I live in Atlanta and know for a fact that the AJC lies so the best thing to do is try the product and see for yourself.
And it not only makes the best biscuits but you haven’t had a good pound cake until you test one made with White Lily. I even purchase it and ship it to friends in Los Angeles. Like I do with Blue Plate mayo.
By Nancy
October 7, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I miss the muffin mixes. They were quick and made a nice hot breakfast for children. I grew up eating them during the winter months while going to school. My daughter loved them. I am sorry that this wonderful product is no longer available. Maybe they will bring it back due to customer demand.
By Debbie
December 23, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Not in the south anymore!! Then it will not be good for making southern biscuits!!!
By Blareeassaurf
December 31, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
sociable expanse for buddy. credibility to get more from your side :)
By Elizabeth Compton
March 13, 2009 8:46 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Natalie. I have a couple of your cookbooks and have enjoyed your cooking shows, if you are one and the same. Good to know about White Lily. The flour is fantastic! We are already missing the WL blueberry muffin mix. I suppose that is no longer produced? None of the stores here in Hixson (outside of Chattanooga) stock it anymore. So sad….