If you're in your 50s, you've heard conversations like this a zillion times:

"So Bob, what are you and Shirley planning to do when you retire?"

"Retire? That doesn't look too likely. Susie still lives at home and Joey is talking about going for another degree. We haven't really stacked up much savings."

"Yeah, us either. Betty and I are thinking we'll have to work when we're in the nursing home. Unless one of us wins the lottery."

Been there? If you have, you know the lottery comment draws chuckles, then the topic changes to something more manageable, like the federal debt. Neither person wants to push the other for details; indeed, neither one wants to delve into the topic himself.

Here's the problem: Those retirement years are coming, whether you plan for them or not. It may be true, and even more appealing in some cases, that you'll work longer than you originally thought. But work needs to be planned for, too, just as a full retirement does. In fact, it may require more planning to account for changes in your health and in the workplace.

To put us all in the right mind-set, maybe we should change the way we talk about it. Instead of saying, "What do you plan to do when you retire?" I'm going to start asking, "What are your plans for your 60s and 70s?" (Or 80s or 90s, depending on my conversation partner.) Maybe this way, we can avoid the conversational cul-de-sac that happens whenever someone uses the word "retire."

You don't have to go into this planning process alone. A growing host of authors, counselors, nonprofits and government agencies are springing up to guide us through this next chapter of life.

Kate Schaefers, a certified retirement coach in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, helps people identify strengths and goals related to the transition to retirement.

"Part of what you're doing when you talk about retirement is planning these really big things, like where you're going to live," she said. "If you start 10 years out, then you've got a vision to work with. It's about helping people really imagine what their lives will be like, and sculpt it."

As Schaefers notes, our lives during our work years are often shaped by our jobs, right down to when we eat, what we wear, and how we spend our free time. She focuses on helping people reclaim their identities outside the workplace.

"People who have really been tied up in their work should start early to separate their identity from work. It can be kind of drastic to make that separation all at once."

Although Schaefers believes people can make their way through this process without professional guidance, she said that using a counselor helps focus on the priority of building a fulfilling life. Here are some steps she recommends:

• Really think about what you want in this phase of your life, and be creative with your thinking.

• Ask for what you want, especially in your current job. Your employer may be open to options such as phased work or part-time hours that will let you pursue other interests.

• Experiment. This is the time to try new things. If you've always wanted to take a dance class, do it.

• Look at living holistically and fully. "As we age, we need to stay active and keep our minds active," Schaefers said. "We also need to think about what feeds our soul, and connect with people that make us happy."

While there isn't a centralized list of retirement coaches, you can start your search by simply typing those words into an Internet search engine. For online reading, start with www.vital-aging-network.org.

- Amy Lindgren owns Prototype Career Service, a career consulting firm in St. Paul, Minn. She can be reached at alindgren@prototypecare rservice.com or at 1071 W. Seventh St., St. Paul, MN 55102.