MOMania

By susan

November 3, 2008 6:24 AM | Link to this

Our family has switched churches several times since moving to metro ATL 11 years ago. We left one church after three years when the focus shifted from being a church to becoming a business. There was constant pressure to give, give, and give more. After a year we landed at another church but recently left due to the size - almost 5K on Sunday morning. We didn’t know the pastor and he surely wouldn’t know us. We liked the messages but wanted something more personal. Proximity is a big factor in finding a new church home. We’d like to find something that is close enough for our family to be active during the week and not just show up on Sunday mornings. My husband drives from N. Gwinnett to Atlanta ever day for work. He shouldn’t have to do it on the weekends too. It’s hard to find a new church home. This is now our fourth attempt.

By FCM

November 3, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this

Theresa, you made a good decision. A very difficult one to be sure. Years ago when I went through divorce, I was in the church I grew up in. Without the outpouring of love from that community I would never have found the ability to stand alone….or the Grace of God to forgive myself for what was going on…even though I have been shown daily that decision was right too.

The church had been in a transition for sometime but the newly called minister and his wife were awesome! Then we learned he had brain cancer….He showed us how you die with faith and grace. He lead his flock even as he approached the gates of Heaven.

What ensued was several years of transition….that felt to the church like decades. (They called a minister this past April…he seems ok but he used the pulpit to allude to politics, which bugs me….especially since he said he wouldn’t).

When I moved to my current city—we looked for a church that had more stability. We found it too. A wonderful minister who knew when you missed. A small congregation of families, that opened their hearts to us. The kids love it!!! (I don’t seem to have a personal ‘fit’)….

My parents attended the ‘old’ church on an infrequent basis, but we would attend when we knew they would be there. Then with ALL of the personal chaos this year, the ‘old’ friendships (as you said people who knew me in diapers!) came forward again with love and compassion. We attended yesterday, since it was the first time since the stroke that Dad was attending (he is doing pretty well, he still needs someone around—for driving, manual stuff , etc, but he is more mobile and starting to do some of his work again).

It feels like home there. It probably always will. I think that there are some openings that I can fill if I can make the time (like your children’s liturgy class)…it feels good to be where you are needed.

The problem is BOTH churches are 45 minutes away. There are none closer of our denomination. The service time at the ‘new’ one is a better fit (another reason we chose it) and the ‘old’ one bites…I know I should sacrafice for God but, having to be up and out like a work day feels like ….well work…not putting me in a good heart for church.

All of this has me thinking we will move back toward my parents. My season to here over. When school ends we will move and be closer to the ‘old’ church…right in time for the oldest to head into Youth Groups every Sunday.

God is good….He will lead you. I am glad you and I were/are willing to follow.

Shalom!

By motherjanegoose

November 3, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this

KUDOS Theresa for recognizing the importance of church attendance. There are lots of wonderful churches here in the metro and many have great programs.

We have always felt that our children needed to be involved in programs at our church and then when they see friends at school who they know from church…it helps them to remember their values.

There is strength in numbers and when a child has peers who are from families that are involved in their church…it does help. This does not mean they are perfect…just being pointed in the right direction and YES when you are in church regularly …you are reminded of right and wrong.

Here is a musing for me today( sorry lakerat) …I am on a kindness kick ( this relates to love one another as Christ has loved you…a church topic) anyway, I read a story about a lady who was at Starbucks and saw a serviceman behind her…she gave the clerk $10 and told her to use it to pay for whatever the gentleman behind her wanted. Said she left with a smile on her face. That was such a selfless gesture in a selfish world. Would that everyone did ONE kind thing each day and our world might be more like the world was meant to be.

I have also heard of those who pay the toll for a total stranger behind them…50Cents might make an impression on someone!

What will your kind act be today ( it is only Monday and some of you were in church yesterday)? Everyone…remember…our children are watching you and kindness is a virtue that needs to be modeled to them!

Here is one that is fairly easy…I try to let folks out into the flow of traffic who are waiting in the cars. They do not do this up north and I hope southerners can show some politeness. I have a personal rule to do this 2-3 times per day …..Once I let in a BIG white suburban and saw that it was a parent of one of my son’s friends…we both laughed!

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

I left the church I grew up in because I felt the pastor had come to view his own politco-religious goals as more important than God. (This man later became President of the GA Baptist Convention after having served on its Executive Committee for quite a while.) That church - where my parents and brothers still go - is about 5 minutes from where my parents live.

I went to the church my aunt was attending at the time (this aunt is basically a second mother) and where my parents had been married at long before. It was 45 minutes from home, but I grew more there than I have at any church I’ve ever been to - before or since. The pastor’s emphasis on relationship over religion resonated with me, and my own relationship with God blossomed at the time I needed it the most.

I left that church when I moved to South GA, and the church I came to down here was initially because it was the one closest to my apartment. It also became a home, as much as the church I had just left. Unfortunately, my time there was limited. Barely 6 months later I would leave teaching and move to Macon. In Macon, I never really had a church, but that was because I was spending nearly every weekend driving back to Albany - I had met T just as I was leaving town.

T and I have been together for nearly 2 yrs now, married for the past 54 weeks of that.

And here is where my own dilemma comes to play:

T grew up in a church not far from where we now live. But I don’t like the pastor. I disagree with him both philosophically and on a few theological points. But God has been pretty clear that this is where He wants me to be.

And I am becoming more and more certain that my hesitancy is blocking some monumental changes in my life and T’s.

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

Lots of comments about how “we meet new friends”…. Very little on Theological agreement with a new Church.

Do you go to Church to meet friends? Is it all about “What can God do for ME?” rather than What can I do for God.

By Sugar

November 3, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

We don’t do church. We don’t believe in all that God stuff. People seem to act a different way on Sundays than they do any other day of the week.

To me, it should be “Sunday Meeting”. It’s when all the “christians” need to get their religion, and to be “seen”. 99% of “christians” aren’t christian away from the church.

I’ve had people with “fish” symbols on their cars, flip me birds, and cut me off in traffic and totally ignore any traffic laws.

I’ve seen people with “WWJD” bracelets on, all the while slinging all kinds of profanity around.

I just don’t buy it. My opinion. I won’t bash anyone for “following” but when you can’t ACT like a christain 24/7, then you aren’t!!!

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

I agree with Sugar, and understand. Bear in mind Church is a place for those seeking help, guidance…. and a better way of life. Have mercy on them. I am more “loser” than winner personally; I need to be in Church. I’m sorry you experienced that.

By momtoAlex&Max

November 3, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Sugar: Acting like a Christian 24/7 is very difficult. Most of us try to do our best as best we can. We are imperfect beings; thus the reason we need a relationship with God in the first place. We often forget, we get lazy, we don;t try hard enough. The beauty of Christianity is that God forgives, we repent, we promise to keep trying. And that’s all we can do: we keep trying to become more like Jesus. It is hard and I believe most of us pray for that every day.

By Jesse's Girl

November 3, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Jeff….that may be your most considerate, eloquent and introspective post to date….listen to God. He’ll get you where you need to be.

Church is a central part of our lives. I love where we are….everyone knows everyone and they care about even the most mundane aspects of your daily life. Its not too big or too small….just perfect for us. I have been invited to sing in some of the south east’s biggest churches. Every single time, I came away with the distinct impression that it was more a place to be seen than a place to worship and grow closer to Christ. I feel that most “mega” churches…and some of the slightly less mega ones….are missing the point. God wants you to grow and prosper…but not to the detriment of the relationships in your church. Ok…off my soap box now.

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

It’s like the old bumper sticker once said:

“LORD PROTECT ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS!”

By Jesse's Girl

November 3, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Sugar…you are absolutely right. Most Christians have no idea how to marry what we learn in church with what the world throws at us the rest of the week. It truly is a study in being in the world, not of it. I do my very best. Sometimes….I fall pitifully short. But I thank God for giving me another chance to make Him proud when I wake up. Its hard to live up to the expectations of The Lord. But it isn’t because He asks so much….in the grand design, obedience is a small price to pay. But its the living in this world with all its temptations and luke warm ideals that help lead us astray. I am sorry that you have encountered some of us at our worst. But trust me when I say….most of us are trying to be what He wants us to be. It is so true that we are watched and judged more harshly. As well we should be! I hope if you ever run into me that I can show you how its supposed to look:)

By Sugar

November 3, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

I have a couple of questions. I DO NOT want this to turn into a believer vs. non-believer agrument, but I would like to throw this out there…..

How can you believe that a “man” who has been dead for over 2,000 years can possibly be watching you over you and want you to “walk” with him? How do you get a relationship with something that does not exist? How do you expect someone who has been dead for over 2,000 to come back?

This is what I do not understand. This had been drilled into our heads all our lives. Has anyone ever REALLY seen Jesus? I know you don’t have to see the wind to know its there, but I would like some intelligent answers, if that is possible.

My parents took us to church when we were little, but even then, I didn’t get it.

By Numbers Guy

November 3, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

I don’t do the church thing either, but there’s a bigger lesson I can see in this column. Just because you’ve “always done it this way” or “always done it here” doesn’t mean that’s the best way to do it. Kudos for having the guts to find a better way for yourself and your family.

As for the parents, why not take turns? One year you do services at their church, the next they come to yours? As a gesture of good faith, you could start over there. If you do that, though, you might want to tell your new pastor about the arrangement and why you’re not going to be there alternate Christmases, especially if you’re volunteering there as staff a lot. No need to ruffle new feathers.

By Jesse's Girl

November 3, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Its faith Sugar. Its a visceral thing for me. I believe with all that I am that none of this is random. I do not claim to understand the bigger questions. I am not God…I will understand when He wants me to. But I know just as sure as I am breathing right now…that Christ lived and died for me. It is documented in sevral texts..Jesus’ life. However, I do entertain the notion that with “man” writing the Bible, that some liberties were probably taken. But the minutia is not where we find Christ. I find Him in my marriage, my children….even in the ugly things that happen. I would love to tell you more specifically how my walk became what it is…if you’ll allow me to. Its pretty cool. Email me at ja10791@hotmail.com

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Hey man, in the most simple terms: Its called faith - applies to all of the worlds religions.

Nothing more, nothing less…

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Sugar:

I can only speak from my personal experience when it comes to this issue.

You know me to be a man ruled by logic, that has a hard time grasping social things that don’t seem to make sense logically.

And there are two avenues for my faith, both dealing with history. The one I will discuss here is my personal history, but the documented history - the history of the world - can be read about in many great books. I recommend The Case for Christ for that, among others.

My personal history goes like this:

I was once wandering, confused and alone. In emotional pain so great that I compared it to a nuclear detonation right above my head that spread my molecules all over the county yet would not let me die. I projected an all out threat to others, but my pain was destroying me from the inside out.

One year, I went to Panama City Beach with my youth group. As I sat beside a palm tree alone every night, just talking to no one but myself and God, I came to see life as the night sky. Dark and sinister, not sunny like most Christians and even many non Christians would have you think. Without going into more Christian-specific theology, suffice it to say that there were elements of both Christ and Satan that I saw in the night sky.

At that point, I knew I had to change or be destroyed. My life could not continue with this amount of pain and strife.

But I also learned that I did not have the power to make the needed change. I tried dozens of times and at least that many methods.

I had some friends from that camp at PCB praying for me throughout that year as I was learning that I did not have the power to change myself.

I went back to PCB almost exactly one year after my first trip.

And there, my life was changed forever.

There was an EXTREMELY emotional service one night, where I could feel others’ emotions but did not have any of my own.

Until I walked outside.

You see, the previous year, I had compared Christ to the moon and Satan and other distractions to stars.

As I walked outside that night, I saw no stars in the sky.

I know now that it was a perfectly clear night, and that everyone else saw stars that night. It was only me that saw no stars, because it was only significant to me.

I was completely shocked, awed, and dumbfounded. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. All I wanted to do was stare at the starless sky.

It was only when a friend from the previous year saw me and asked me what had happened that I realized that God had removed the stain from my life. He had bought me with the blood of His Son, and I was free from the chains that had very nearly destroyed me.

A week later, there was a dance at my school after band camp. It was in the alternate gym, but I made my way to the main gym, where I was all alone. I had still been trying to process what had happened the last week, and I realized that God had done his part, now I had to do mine. I doubt they have the security tape from that night any more - it was a decade ago this past July - but I walked up to the top of the stands, and I made a decision. I would walk to center court, and if I made it there I would accept what God had done. Center court was the destination. If I went anywhere else, I was not accepting it. It took me about 10 minutes to walk down those empty bleachers, and I was battling forces I had never experienced before in my life - but I made it to center court that night. Characteristically of me, no one else knew what was happening, but all would come to know its effects.

Y’all know I haven’t exactly been ‘Christ-like’ all the time since then. In fact, as someone else above said, I’m far more loser than winner in that department.

But I also know a love far greater than even what I feel for T, far greater than any human can ever truly understand. It is a love that as I learn about my own marriage with T, I come to truly understand more and more of His marriage to the Church, his Bride.

And as overpowering as my love for T can be at times, knowing that Christ’s love for ME makes my love for T look like filthy rags - suffice it to say that human words will NEVER do that Love the justice it deserves.

By CP

November 3, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

I just started going to a new church a few months ago myself. The church I grew up in is a couple hours away in NE Ga & don’t really like going there anyway. The people are nice but it always seemed more about relationships with other people than a relationship with God. I know we’re supposed to love others, but I just didn’t see God in the loop at all.

The church I’ve started to go to is not too big, not too small & seems to be a place where I can get involved and serve too. They also just got a new pastor (don’t know how long they were without one but it’s been since before I began to come,) and he seems very much on fire. He did mention politics and current events but it was about keeping faith in God during these times (no endorsement of candidates or anything like that.)

Sugar, I would like to address what you were talking about earlier. I’m not interested in getting into a debate either but I have a point to make. The entire Christian faith is that Jesus died for us (every person who ever did/will live) on the cross as the only perfect sacrifice. Most children were taught (I was anyway) in church that God has 3 parts: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the part of God that is the Son. God sent an actual part of Himself to us to become human and die for us. But His soul never died - it returned to Heaven and will return again.

And you’re right about seeing a lot of “Christians” not behaving like it. Instead of being a light in the darkness of the world, we’re part of the problem too. But I do believe also that most of the people that will call themselves Christians don’t have the first clue what being one is all about - which is why they behave that way. Many people I grew up with were “inherited Christians.” They had parents who went to church & they went sometimes too. So they just called themselves Christians because their parents did.

I could go on but I’m sure you could get better answers from the Bible itself. The New Testament is a great place to find answers. And if the King James version is a little too archaic (really, who speaks that way anymore,) there are updated versions that still carry the same message, like the New International version.

By Joyce

November 3, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

My husband and I came to a similar decision a few years ago. Even pre-kid, we got tired of having to drive a minimum of 30 minutes for everything in our lives! So, even though the other church was “home” for many years and it was where my husband was confirmed, we made a change to our current church. We’ve been very happy for all of the reasons Theresa mentioned, especially now that our son is here. As my husband says, you have to make your life where you’re living it!

By K&K's Mom

November 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Theresa, Theresa sometimes I swear you have a window into my life. My husband and two children are experiencing the exact same thing right now.

My mother brought me to me current church 28 years ago when we first moved here from Chicago. My husband’s family came to the same church 26 years ago when relocating from Miami. Over the years both of us were baptized, met, married, had our children dedicated, memorialized my mother and had one child baptized in this same church. In the process our long time Pastor, died nearly 2 years ago from cancer with no succession plan. Of course as this would go, the church went thru a grieving process, but church leadership placed a previous Executive Pastor in an interim position, later the church went on to vote him in. As I got older, I knew that the church was getting to be more and more of a place that I didn’t really want to raise my family, but it was tradition and it was all we ever knew. We never really had a reason (or so we thought) for going anywhere else. We loved our Pastor and we were personally very close to him and his family. I took his death pretty hard, as it came 6 months after I unexpectedly buried my mother. We know everyone at this church and they all often remind us of how much they’ve watched us grow. Now with the new Pastor, I’m just not impressed. Although, my husband and I didn’t vote for him we promised ourselves that we would give him a chance, but something has always been missing. Administratively he is great for the church and will make it run more efficient, however Spiritually he just doesn’t do it for me.

So my husband and I began to seek out a new church and found this great place that we absolutely love. The Pastor is real and upfront. The church ministers to four generations, and does it well, so that no generation feels left out. At the old church we felt out of place, when 70% of the congregation is over 55. This new church has something for our children and a strong marriage ministry. So because my husband is in a leadership position at our current, he is finishing out his term this year and at the end of December we will formally move our membership.

This has been an extremely emotional and hard decision on us and our children but we felt that we had to do what was best for us spiritually and not emotionally. Friends and being at a place where everyone knows your name doesn’t get you to heaven in our religion, so we had to go with what was a better place for us spiritually, a place where we can grow and feel like we are being ministered to.

I feel your pain Theresa, but congratulations, to you and your family for doing what is right for your family, today’s blog gives me inspiration to push forward as we make our move.

By BlondeHoney

November 3, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Sugar…I am with you all the way. Someof the folks who call themselves “Christians” are some of the most narrow-minded, mean spirited people I have ever known. And George Carlin was right on in his riff on organized religion; he said god is an invisible man in the sky who just can’t handle money because he always is asking for MORE :)

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

We changed churches when my son was close to 2-yrs-old. We left because the sermons had become little more than moral pep-talks using various scriptures hand-picked to back up the points. The church we moved to is almost strictly verse-by-verse study of the Bible. Our pastor picks a book of the Bible and then starts and Chapter 1 verse 1 and moves through.

It’s always a tough decision to move because there are people at the old church that you like and that might not understand why you are leaving.

Sugar… first, I believe Jesus is still alive. He died 2000 years ago and then came back to life 3 days later. So he is real and living and can impact my life every day.
Second, there are unfortunately a lot of people who call themselves Christians who do consider church to be more of a social club. Jesus even ran into this in his time when the religious establishment at the time was corrupt and evil.
Don’t judge God solely based on the people here on Earth. Go straight to the source and find out. Take a chance at reading the Bible (the message is an easy to read version). See what God say about himself.

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Sugar:

A question:

Do you like to read action/adventure type books? What about fantasy?

(I’m going somewhere with this, but more than likely NOT in the direction you’re thinking.)

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Mr. Nice Guy, I believe Theresa is a Catholic so there would be virtually no theological differences from one church to the other since that is not really set at the church level unlike many Protestant denominations.

We left a So. Baptist church to go to a non-denominational church. So in that type of move, you really need to check out the specific set of doctorines the church subscribes to. Mainly for me it comes down to: how true do they think the Bible is? If a church starts throwing out sections of the Bible, time for me to move on.

By Sugar

November 3, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Thank you everyone for your “adult” replies.

Jeff, I don’t know where you are going with your, but I read for pleasure. And I also no not to believe everything I read, hear, etc.

*Penguinmom * I do not believe that anyone died, and came back three days later, and is still, 2,000 years later, walking around. I just don’t buy it. I cannot believe there is a 2,000+ old man walking “among” us. That’s what I don’t understand. NO ONE dies, and comes back three days later, let alone move a 3 ton rock (alone) to get out of a cave.

That, and the Bible was written 400 years AFTER.

By Get a Grip

November 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

I was not brought up with religion. Never even set foot inside a church until my early 20’s. I do not believe in the conventional “organized religion” stuff I have seen so far (TV, reading, talking to others). I do, however, believe that if you are always the best person you can be then that is the best you can do - with or without religion. I don’t like fanatics knocking on my door and trying to hand me literature and I especially don’t care for fanatics telling me that I will go to “the hot place” if I don’t buy into what THEY believe. I believe organized religious has become very rich and greedy and feel that way everytime I look at one of the beautiful buildings that have been constructed and also hear about starvation and other monetary deficiencies in our world. And so, I will opt out on this blog today and I have nothing positive to say about religion or faith or spiritual belief. Whatever you all need to do to get by in your lives, just do it. I just try to do the best for those around me always……

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Sugar:

There is a trilogy of books out there where a man lives in two distinct realities. Every time he goes to sleep in one reality, he wakes up in the other. Events in one reality can influence the other, and malevolent forces are at work in each reality, seeking to conquer their respective worlds. Only the one man who slips between the realities can save either.

The books are called Black, Red, and White, and comprise the Circle Trilogy by Ted Dekker.

The works are CLEARLY fiction - I’m not asking you to believe a word of them as actual truth.

All I’m asking is that you read them, if you’re so inclined. (of the 51 books I’ve read this year, each of those books ranked within my Top 10 of the year. For an idea of the rest of the top 10: It includes some of the Twilight Saga as well as works from Nicholas Sparks and Matthew Reilly.)

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Oh, thank you Penguinmom - I didn’t know she was Catholic; in that case changing Churches is really no big deal as the theology is unified worldwide. It would just be an adjustment to new people.

Still - the reason one should go to Church is not the Pastor, or the people, or the Sunday school, or the dating services - its about worship. Everything else is a ploy to get people in the doors.

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Sugar, I don’t believe that Jesus is walking around in human form on Earth at the moment. 40 days after coming back to life, he went up into heaven. God is here on earth as the Holy Spirit to help, comfort, guide us.

As far as the 3-ton rock. Since I believe God created that rock, he could easily command it to move. It all goes back to how big and powerful do you think God can be? My faith says all-powerful so nothing is impossible with him.

I know there are disputes about the time of the writing but I believe most Biblical scholars place New Testament writing closer than that. Many of the authors at least claim to be eyewitnesses to the events so I choose to believe them.

At some point, all belief has to come down to a matter of faith. If a thing can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt then there would not be the necessity of trusting. If God could be explained totally then he wouldn’t really be that impressive of a God.

By Mr. Nice Guy

November 3, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

There is nothing wrong with not believing either! There is nothing wrong with being an Atheist too! To each their own.

The best validation of a person is not about their faith but their deeds. Atheists can be wonderful people too!

By lakerat

November 3, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Sugar, that is a question best asked in a one on one session with a “believer” friend rather than on a blog where questions and opinions beget questions and opinions.

There are many varied and good answers for your questions, and the fact that you are seeking answers to very real questions is indicative of a spiritual quest. Hopefully, you will learn the answers to your questions - I know of 4 or 5 really good churches (all are non-denominational and are contemporary (or as I like to call them - rock-n-roll churches)in the Atlanta area (Gwinnett, North Fulton, 2 in Forsyth county, one in Buckhead, and one on the southside) that have programs for just these questions - but if you are looking for one that is associated with a specific Christian alliance, there are MANY more in the metro area that will be more than happy to assist.

Good luck in this!

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Mr. Nice Guy, True, Worship should be paramount.
But, I do believe church should also be a place of community (taking care of others) and teaching. I think this is backed up in Acts with the creation of deacons to help the poor, the obvious gathering together to listen to Paul and others expound on the Scriptures and the admonition for us to bear one anothers burdens. Even the listing of spiritual gifts includes such things as teaching and hospitality.

That said, everything that is done in church or out by Christians should be motivated by wanting to bring glory to God’s name. Unfortunately, too often, we let the busy-ness of life get in the way of that goal.

By Get a Grip

November 3, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

PenguinMom-

Can we not be all these things and not have to follow someone’s religion?

By micha

November 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

I am struggling with making a change myself. I love the church and the preacher is one of the best I’ve ever heard. The problem is the singing. The “band” they have has everyone stand for their singing and they go on and on singing the same verses over and over for 45 mins. every service. It got on my nerves so bad that I haven’t been back for the past 2 weeks. A lot of people are complaining about that very thing but nothing seems to get done about it. It’s as if they are a band practicing every Sunday morning and we’re suppose to stand up and clap all the time. My back can’t take the standing and my ears can’t take the repeats. I just wish the pastor would wake up and put an end to it before 1/2 the congregation leaves.

By Jesse's Girl

November 3, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Ooooohhh, Micah….come to our church. Our band kicks butt!

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

micha:

I don’t know where you attend, but I know this:

Tiny names in Christian music (that all happen to have ATL connections) like Newsong, Casting Crowns, and Third Day started out as church bands.

Phillips, Craig, and Dean are three Texas pastors who happen to be slightly decent singers as well. (SEVER understatement y’all… PCD is one of my favorite trios in all of music!)

By Jesse's Girl

November 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Not a fan of PCD…but I am diggin on December Radio, Need to Breathe and Kutless.

By motherjanegoose

November 3, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

I once heard this years ago and it has always stuck in my mind… the Bible is like a road map…it points you in the right direction….you may not agree with it but it has the ultimate master plan.

Since I travel at least 30 weeks per year, this is something I understand… I may have my GPS and map books in my car…but I have no idea where I am and how to get to where I am going but the maps are what I follow in faith that they will take me to where I need to go and that I will arrive. If your goal is to get to heaven, then you need to check out the directions in John 3:16 or Romans 6:23.

Whether or not you always behave correctly is a side issue as none of us is perfect but we can all be forgiven.

Have my own children ever done things that I am appalled at? YES but they are my children and I will forgive them. This is how it is with God…if you are his child he will forgive you.

I apologize for those ( of us) who have acted wrongly towards you as I know this can happen with all Christians.

Good points today and I think Jeff may really be headed in a new direction!

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Get a Grip, I don’t really see how you can worship God or make glorifying his name a priority and not be part of a religion.

As far as caring for others/being kind, certainly everyone should strive for this no matter what their beliefs. It should go a bit deeper than if you truly follow the Bible.

micha, do we really want to open the can of worms of church music? :-) I struggle with the praise choruses that repeat over and over. Perhaps I’m ADD but I lose my focus after the third time. (And people used to complain about endless verses of Just as I am!) :-)

By micha

November 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

JG - they all sing great, they just sing the same verse about 100 times. Literally one song will last 15 mins. and only have about 3 verses so you can only imagine. Majestic is the name and like I said, they have beautiful voices but geez how many times can we listen to the same thing over and over. Any ideas on how to address the issue without upsetting the group or is it best that we just find another church?

By Sugar

November 3, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

MommaJ You will have to forgive Jeff. He is “slipping between realities at the moment” (12:27 post). And the time change has thrown him off.

ha ha…..

By micha

November 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Where has JJ been lately?

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Sugar:

Laugh all you want, but seriously, the books were some of the best I’ve read in quite a while, and I’ve read 51 this year alone.

Here’s the blurbs from the back of the books:

Black: By day’s end, three million people will be carriers of the deadliest virus in history. There is no vaccine. There is no anti-virus. The world’s only hope is Thomas Hunter, and he has already been killed. Twice. Enter an adrenaline-laced epic where dreams and reality collide - and the fate of two worlds hangs in the balance of one man’s choices.

Red: The Stakes of the mind-bending story spun in Black are raised to a new level in Red. In one world, Thomas Hunter must lead a small, highly trained force of 30,000 against an unstoppable army of a million warriors. In the other he will face an evil beyond the scope of his imagination.

White: Some say that the world hangs in the balance of every choice we make. Now, the fate of two worlds hangs in the balance of one man’s choices… an unlikely hero who may not survive the next 24 hours.

The adrenaline-laced trilogy began with Black , continued with Red, and now races to an unbelievable conclusion with White.

In White, Thomas Hunter struggles to stave off a war and a virus that are simultaneously ravaging two world’s populations. Meanwhile, he must also contend with the ramifications of an incredible love story that unfolds�consequences that are far more crushing than anyone could ever imagine. This final installment brings the groundbreaking series to a close in a completely unexpected manner, filled with final plot twists that will richly reward those who have taken this epic journey.

IOW: If you like Lord of the Rings/Chronicles of Narnia type stories, this one will probably be even more intense.

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

micha, unfortunately church music can be an issue that is hard to address. Complaints can be seen as ‘just wanting to go back to the old way’ or ‘you just don’t like rock and roll’.
Whatever you say, you need to carefully choose your words so that they are not taken as just complaining. Try to compliment the band before mentioning your complaints. Then end with an example of a song you really enjoyed or something positive. And, try to be prepared for nothing to change.

By micha

November 3, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Penguinmom - that’s what I thought and why I’ve remained silent. It’s just sad that I’ll miss a good mans work and only hope I can find another like him.

By HB

November 3, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

they all sing great, they just sing the same verse about 100 times. Literally one song will last 15 mins. and only have about 3 verses so you can only imagine.

Yeah, this sort of thing drives me crazy too and in my opinion, seems a bit narcissistic. And I don’t just think that about the bands — same is true of the preacher who likes to hear his own preaching too much, the skilled traditional organist who launches into every hymn with a 10 minute prelude, and the choir director who schedules a solo for himself every week — there’s a fine line between serving the church and hamming it up. No matter how good you are, there’s still such a thing as too much because the service isn’t about you. End rant.

By Jeff

November 3, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

HB:

I can’t say too much… some of my favorite classic hymns have 6+ verses.

Interestingly to me is that in a Baptist church, you typically only sing 3 of them - and the others typically contain both more and more relevant theology that makes the message of the song SOOO much stronger! (Don’t know if other denominations sing more or less or whatever.)

By HB

November 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Jeff, 6-verse traditional hymns don’t bother me because 1) even those usually last under 5 min and 2) they usually feel more communal with the music coming from all and just accompanied by the organ/choir. With some of the bands, it feels more like it’s about them and they’re inviting the audience to sing along for 15 minutes. That bugs me.

By FCM

November 3, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

@JEFF—- You said “But God has been pretty clear that this is where He wants me to be.” You go on that…don’t worry about not agreeing with the minister…God has work for you and you cannot do it if you are someplace else!

@SUGAR - It has been my experience that everyone finds Him and knows Him differently. That is how come to find Him is different, and how they see Him is different. For me I saw blood fill a Baptist church to overflowing—-I just saw blood pouring like waterfalls through the windows. (Yes, I expect like Thomas, most people will doubt and want to ‘touch the holes’). I ‘heard’ Christ and Satan arguing over me (in church!) about 2 weeks prior.

Yesterday on my way to church (a different one—my kids and I were talking….I told them (w/o really thinking about what I said) “Without God I am nothing. I may as well not exist.” For me that is a real and ture statement.

Like another poster said He came, He walked, He died, and rose again…for ALL who have ever or will ever live, breath, walk, love, etc on earth. To me it is not about whether or not you believe he exists….Lots of people believe that we never landed on the moon and that the Holocaust did not occur, their disblief doesn’t make the fact that those things did happen change…so Therefore, not believing in God does not mean He doesn’t exist nor does it meam He stoped believing in you….

By new mom

November 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Wow I’ve missed an interesting conversation today…

I will try to keep my post from rambling too much. My husband and I are ‘recovering baptists’ who finally found our church home 4 years ago, after serving in baptist churches for years. When we got married, we were drawn to the youth groups and became youth leaders, because honestly, they were the only ones who actually seemed to be passionate and excited about their faith and relationships w/Christ. It seemed most adults were there: to be seen, punch some religious timeclock, or guilt. It looked like they were being tortured to sit through the service so they could get to lunch. No one seemed to be there because they truly wanted to worship, learn, grow, and love each other.

We found an non-denomination church, and as someone else mentioned, did some homework to make sure the beliefs were biblical and solid. But honestly the biggest difference was seeing the people—especially adults—worshipping passionately and from their hearts and souls. Here, it’s not about “religion” but the “relationship”. Religion is a set of rules to follow, where your relationship w/Christ is about experiencing love, forgiveness, grace, I could go on and on.

The music is different from the hymms, but we were used to the ‘rock n roll’ style from youth events. But to us, it’s deeper than that…We’ve learned that those praise choruses and songs all have such biblical roots, and the repetition is seen over and over in the Bible as people repeat their praises to God. But most personally, when we start focusing on God and praising him directly, and the distractions fall to the side, all we want to do is praise Him. And when I’m doing that, it seems that the songs should go on even longer! And our pastor recently said he realized years ago that, after studying the traditional hymnal, only four hymns actually addressed God directly. How do you praise someone and yet not praise them directly? :)

I know that style of music isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, especially when you’re used to hymnals and organs. But hey, if you can praise Him in that style, focus truly on Him and not be distracted by everything else, then it’s all good.

Our pastor teaches the Bible. That is the one thing I can with such certainty—that you never leave wondering, and always feel like you have learned something you never dreamed of. He starts EVERY teaching with “open your Bibles to….” (that will be a giveaway to those who go to our church!)

By Theresa

November 3, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone — It was a great conversation today!! I spent the morning at the doctor’s office with all three kids — Walsh just has bad allergies (gave him new meds to try), Rose has an infection (antibiotic) and everybody got flu vaccines (two oldest the mist (no mercury)baby got shot (but not mercury in baby shot).

On the theology question — We are Catholic so theology is the same but the church’s feel is very different. The personalities of the pastor and deacons still play a role in how the church feels. I am pretty well loving our new pastor and deacons. Since I started the children’s liturgy I’ve had to work with him and his top leaders a lot so I got to know people very fast. (can be good and bad —- they know if you don’t show up.) Even the kids have recognized the pastor is a lot friendlier and less grumpy than our other guy.

Church is not all about having your friends there but it sure makes it more fun to show up to — the kids have donuts and play on the playground after wtih their buddies. And it’s so much easier and we’re not exhausted afterward!

By micha

November 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

HB - you must go to my church :)

By Jo

November 3, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I’m very sorry to say, but once again, this sort of topic has hurt my feelings & made me feel like I was given a slap across the face. See, I am Jewish & y’all talk about a “CHURCH home” & Christianity. A lot of so-called “Christians” (not true Christians, but the kind of phonies Sugar was talking about) have made me feel like some kind of filth because I’m of a “different” ethnic group.

By new mom

November 3, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Jo, I’m personally sorry you felt hurt by this topic. I don’t think anyone was purposely trying to be offensive, but just sharing their own experiences. Nonetheless, I hate to read that sadness in anyone’s post.

There are people out there, of every faith, who have an arrogance about them toward those of other faiths. Now, I do believe what I believe and do so because I believe it’s correct. Otherwise I wouldn’t believe it! But, we should all be respectful of those of other faiths, just as I hope others are respectful of me and mine. Ya know? And we Christians and Jews have the same roots… :)

By Jo

November 3, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

New Mom, thank you for that post! That was incredibly sensitive & insightful. There are so many of us (Jews) in Atlanta now; I hope no one else of a non-Christian faith (or lack of faith, even) reads this forum & experiences the same sense of being discriminated against. And you are right about Christianity & Judaism being so deeply intertwined. Yes, I have a lot of cultural pride & consider myself 100% Jewish, but believe in Jesus, as well. And know what my favourite holiday is? Christmas!

By new mom

November 3, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I miss JJ too…I think she might still be lurking, but I sure would enjoy reading her posts again.

JJ, if you’re out there, please come back!! :)

By new mom

November 3, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Jo, that was sweet! I also hope that no one reads this and feels discriminated against, because like I mentioned, I don’t think it is intentional.

And because you believe in Jesus too, do you consider yourself to be a Messianic Jew? I haven’t learned as much about this as I would like, but that being Jewish is a cultural issue as much as a religious one, and if you are Jewish, you will always be considered so. Isn’t that correct? However, Messianic Jews believe that Jesus was the Messiah that the Old Testament prophesied…I do wish I could write more intelligently about this, but that’s all I know :)

By FCM

November 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

@Jo—Once I read “Discovering God: Abraham and the Birth of Monotheism” by David Kofflinger (I hope I spelled that right)…I never looked at people of the Jewish faith as anything but the source from which I was taught, the people my God chose to lead and live among….I am with New Mom….I am truly sorry that posts felt like a slap. Then I re-read “To Life” by Rabbi Kuchner (again I hope I spelled it right)…which explains why the laws are and how he believes the people live.

By Theresa

November 3, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Hey Jo — I am so sorry this made you feel bad — totally not my intention. I in fact tried not to mention a specific denomination so no one would feel left out. I think with any religion there should be a feeling of community and belonging, and it’s important to find that whether you’re Hindu, Buddist or Jewish ..etc. I do happen to be Christian but I think searching for a faith your community your family is comfortable in is very universal!

I miss JJ too. I hope she is still lurking and will comment when the spirit moves her. Last week i wasn’t sure about doing the Ga.Florida question even though I did think it was relevant to parents because I thought about JJ and her response to the GA/GA tech one. I hope she will return when she’s ready.

By motherjanegoose

November 3, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Jo…I have clients and friends that are Jewish and I love being around all of them. Please know that not all Christians have an attitude about you…I enjoy all sorts of people.

Another musing…

when I was in North Dakota last week, we talked about how people are different across the United States…North Dakotans are pretty much the same as mostly they marry folks from in the state and stay near their families.

I mentioned how I have had to learn to eat different types of food when I travel.

One lady comes up to me and says,” you know…my sister in law is from the south and you will NEVER believe what she fixes for Thanksgiving…we saw it there when we visited…” I asked her, “what?”

She says, “macaroni and cheese…like in a casserole with real noodles and cheese…for THANKSGIVING…can you imagine…?”

I try not to laugh at her ( my daughter cannot see what is so odd about this as she was born in GA) and remind her that everyone has family traditions that they enjoy carrying on.

So…for Jewish folks…I enjoy getting to know things about your heritage too!

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

newmom, I believe we go to the same church. :-)

I actually disagree a bit with him on a lot of those points.

I don’t mind praise songs. I used to enjoy them a lot more until I started being told so frequently how bad hymns are. I do mind hymns being nearly totally left out. At some point saying ‘no hymns’ is just as legalistic as saying ‘no praise songs’.

I just think there is a place for both and going to either extreme can lead to error.

Jeff, the difference between hymns having several verses and singing a praise song over and over is that the hymn’s verses usually have different words.

I’ve gotten to the point where I wonder if it’s just a dumbing down of America that we can’t be expected to remember more than 20 or so words to a song.

By Penguinmom

November 3, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Jo, I’m so sorry that today’s topic/posts were offensive to you. I truly don’t think any of us intended that. I know I was personally just speaking from my experience.

I’m also sorry that some have made you feel bad for being Jewish. Those who did and claimed to be Christians obviously don’t have a good grasp on what being a Christian means.

By new mom

November 3, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Penguinmom—perhaps we do! If you do, you will see our church name mentioned in my 4:11 post :) Also our worship leader taught about worship and praise, not yesterday but the Sunday before.

Also, we have a lot of old hymns incorporated into our praise time, which is kinda cool, because so many who are used to the old hymns (me included) can connect with them, and see how some relate to current praise songs. Plus it teaches the words of some old hymns to kids who have grown up with only praise-style worship :)

By Jo

November 4, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Thanks for all the support & kind words, ladies! Oh, no, no Christian has ever made me feel slighted in the least. The ones who’ve been guilty are people who SAY they’re Christian but don’t “walk the walk”. Hmmm, NewMom, I don’t think I’d be considered a Messianic Jew because by definition, a Messianic Jew believes Jesus is the only way to salvation. Although I believe in God & Jesus, I have always felt the Lord is too big for just one religion. (Macaroni & cheese as a Thanksgiving main dish?? Uh, either these folks really have to watch their pennies of are strict vegetarians!)

By nurse&mother

November 4, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

My church believes in diversity. We have “joined forces” with other churches like the Jewish, Baptist, Methodist and Lutheran for various celebrations. It’s nice to go to a church that does not discriminate based on religion. BTW I am Episcopalian.

There were various fleeting moments (nothing serious-just blips) in my life where I questioned whether God was really there. However, there have been so many times in my life where I have been awed by the Earth’s beauty. I have seen too many miracles that only God could produce. It has been these moments that I know there must be a God. Has anyone else had these revelations?

By nowthatsprogressive!

November 4, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

wow, a pro-choice Catechist?

By Theresa

November 10, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

who is that last person talking about?