MOMania

By mom Of 2

October 14, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this

I am amazed that the best coping skill this teacher had in her arsenal was public humiliation. It is completely unacceptable. I would go to the principal. This child is in kindergarten. The way he is treated and the impressions he forms about school start now. Complain and have him moved. There are wonderful teachers out there who can deal with your child with love and understanding instead of humiliation.

By momtoAlex&Max

October 14, 2008 7:01 AM | Link to this

Hmmmmmm. Why do I get the feeling that there’s more to this story?

While I don’t necessarily agree with public humiliation (specially in kindergarden), we do not have the teacher’s side on this. Children do change from year to year and maybe the chemistry with this teacher is off. Talk with the principal and see what she says. I am pretty sure that the kid cn be moved to a different class if he is just not clicking with this teacher.

Also, some teachers just have a low tolerance for chatty kids, who they perceive as a disruption in class. It could be he just needs more to do.

By Bobby

October 14, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

I think there are two sides to every story and I’d like to hear the other side of it before I draw a conclusion. I am sick to death of everyone afraid of offending every child’s “fragile ego”….

By ebaby

October 14, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

When I was in elementary school, the chatters would get their desks moved to face the wall so that they would focus and avoid distractions. This seems ok and very different from what this teacher in question has done.

Besides the odd punishment method- were reward methods tried beforehand?

By Greg

October 14, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

I am an elementary-level principal at a major Atlanta private school.

The action you have taken, to arrange for a conference with the principal, is the correct step to take. However, I would caution you against making statements like “he’s chatty, like everyone in the class is” or “no one else gets singled out.” These are statements you would have no real knowledge of, other than hearsay, and it undercuts your argument by appearing unrealistic. You say that other teachers have told you that your child is “chatty.” Understand that that is sometimes teacher-code for disruptive. Not always, but sometimes.

Okay, that being said, it sounds like method being employed by this teacher is not a good one. I have no problem with isolating the child… it is an effective and pain-free method of making a statement that the child will understand. However, using the child as an example to the other children is way out of bounds, and needs to be the primary focus of your discussion with the principal. The lack of communication should also be a topic of discussion.

By Theresa

October 14, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

The mom sent me a string of e-mails between herself and the teacher — The teacher pretty much admitted that it was the wrong choice and that she would change her tactics. But apparently she did it to the child several times to the point that when the child came in in the mornings went to the stool instead of a desk!!! So the mother is very upset about it — The mother also pointed out to her that while visiting multiple times she saw other children acting out and talking far more than her own child and was baffled by the differences in their treatment — From the notes the teacher made it sound like she got frustrated and made a bad choice but apparently she made that choice several times. She didn’t have a good defense at all.

By mptherjanegoose

October 14, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

There is almost ALWAYS more to these stories. When I myself was a 1st grader the teacher put masking tape over my mouth and then wrote a note to my mother…so yes, I know about talking…. YOU WOULD NEVER DO THIS NOW TO CHILDREN! Talkers can be a problem and moving them away while they need to get their work done seems to be a good solution, Is this a new teacher or someone who needs to be on her ( his) way out to stay with lakerat ( just joking) for a permanent retirement with a fishing pole.

I am not for mean spirited teachers.

The Mother needs to (CALMLY) request a meeting with the principal and just state the facts,,,do not get emotional ( this will be hard) . If something is rotten, the principal will be on red alert.

FYI…there are those precocious ( sp) children who do want to run the show all the time and tell the teacher what to do. I remember one little girl I had years ago. I took her out for a private chat and told her that if I were ever going to be out of school I would mention ( to the principal) that __ ( her name) could fill in for me and only THEN would she be in charge of the class…LOL. Of course, this never happened. NEVER EVER berate the teacher in front of your children…even if they are probably doing something wrong…this will disrupt the respect for the teacher and you will then have a big problem. It is always better to get another opinion. We need a bit of advice from Kathy ( who has taught in our county) …maybe she will check in and help us out!

By JR

October 14, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

It seems that there has to be another side to this story. You stated that everyone in the class is chatty. However, how would you know that? Parents have to understand that teachers have a lot of content to teach in such a sort time. If your child is “chatty” then it seems you need to deal with your child. He is a disruption to the learning environment and the teacher is fed up. What solutions do you have to your child being disruptive? What about the other students in the class who want to learn but can not because your student consistently talks during class? It seems you need to gain control of your kindergartener before he becomes a bigger social problem.

By Forsyth Mom

October 14, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

OMG. You have GOT to be kidding me. You send your kids to this government school, and turn them over to strangers, they get in trouble, and you are upset with the disclipine. If you don’t like someone else disclipining your kid, home school them. You cannot be the only disiplinarian in that kids’ life. He must learn to respect adults.

The person in the article is a helicopter parent. Taking it up with the principal? Good Lord.

Try talking to your kid and teaching him respectful behavior.

By JR

October 14, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

It seems that there has to be another side to this story. You stated that everyone in the class is chatty. However, how would you know that? Parents have to understand that teachers have a lot of content to teach in such a sort time. If your child is “chatty” then it seems you need to deal with your child. He is a disruption to the learning environment and the teacher is fed up. What solutions do you have to your child being disruptive? What about the other students in the class who want to learn but can not because your student consistently talks during class? It seems you need to gain control of your kindergartener before he becomes a bigger social problem.

By JR

October 14, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

It seems that there has to be another side to this story. You stated that everyone in the class is chatty. However, how would you know that? Parents have to understand that teachers have a lot of content to teach in such a sort time. If your child is “chatty” then it seems you need to deal with your child. He is a disruption to the learning environment and the teacher is fed up. What solutions do you have to your child being disruptive? What about the other students in the class who want to learn but can not because your student consistently talks during class? It seems you need to gain control of your kindergartener before he becomes a bigger social problem.

By Mr. Nice Guy

October 14, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Please get over it. Perhaps the teacher didn’t do the right thing, but there comes a time when Mommy and Daddy no longer come to the rescue; the child must also learn to be independent as well as to learn the truth about the world - life is not fair.

Too often parents come to the rescue, overprotecting thier children.

I’m sorry but I would back the teacher and move on. Better to learn the lesson now in Kindergarden than at age 15.

By Theresa

October 14, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

hey new mom — email me at the ajcmomania@gmail.com account and I will tell you where I THINK I got sick - there’s no way to know for certain and I don’t want to get sued for saying they caused it online -

By Jesse's Girl

October 14, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

I agree that every child muct learn to repect and obey their teacher….or whomever may be in “charge” at the moment. But I think that in kindergarten, this tactic is going over board and it speaks to the lack of training and self control she has. Children this age adjust at different levels and speeds. This kid does not seem like the obtuse kind that gets in trouble daily for being disruptive. This sounds more to me like the teacher is overwhelmed and under prepared for the task at hand. I would absolutely take it up with the principal. But I would also speak with my child to ensure that he is fully aware of what is expected of him while in school. Humiliating a child is never a proper course of action in my opinion.

By Courtney

October 14, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

As an educator, I have seen teachers with poor classroom management. The correct way to handle this situation is to schedule a meeting with the teacher and principal. However, you can’t assume that your child is like others. You stated your child is “chatty” and other teachers have agreed. The problem is identified. As a teacher, we are human and patience is of virtue and there are different levels. Maybe this was a type of intervention that worked. What alternatives do you suggest? Remember it takes a village to raise a child and your child is with his/her teacher more than you! Nevertheless, get out of “parent mode” and understand children are Dr. Jekyl and Mrs. Hyde! Communication is the key….

By Tater

October 14, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Forsyth Mom

Amen…You are right on target..

By Kyle Katarn

October 14, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Helicopter parent? That’s a new one and I have no idea what it means, so I won’t address it further than this.

Back to the matter at hand, it does seem out of bounds for a teacher to use another student as an example in order to humiliate the student. How I deal with inappropriate teacher discipline is that I’ve given my child permission to disobey a teacher’s orders when he feels he’s being punished unfairly or if the punishment goes over the line (and this is after all attempts have been made to address the situation with teacher/principal meetings). This doesn’t mean that my child has permission to disobey ALL attempts at discipline. I’ve made it clear that if I find out that the behavior did indeed justify punishment, and if the punishment wasn’t inappropriate, and my child still disobeyed orders to comply with the punishment, I’ll mete out punishment as well (threatening to take away the Atari game system works wonders). However, if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, my child can disobey punishment attempts.

By still angry mom

October 14, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

“I have come to the frightening conclusion that I am the decisive element in the classroom. It’s my personal approach that creates the climate. It’s my daily mood that makes the weather. As a teacher, I possess a tremendous power to make a child’s life miserable or joyous. I can be a tool of torture or an instrument of inspiration. I can humiliate or humor, hurt or heal. In all situations, it is my response that decides whether a crisis will escalate or de-escalate and a child humanized or dehumanized. ” — Dr. Haim Ginott

By Tater

October 14, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Forsyth Mom

Forgot to mention that, with the exception of the military, government does nothing right.

Take a look at the bailout that our children will have to pay for…

It doesn’t matter if you are a Democrat or Republican, government is out of control. Public schools are part of the problem.

By Sugar

October 14, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Helicopter Parent - One who “hovers” over their child, their entire life, will not let them out of their sight.

Sometimes known to even go on job interivews with their child.

By Jane

October 14, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

No teachers are not always right - No the child is not always perfect. They are human beings and that in and of itself leaves room for a decrepancy in both methods and reactions. The method employed by this teacher is deplorable, to begin with this child is in Kindergarten for goodness sake - it is a time to learn how to be socially acceptable and learn how to function with their peers. Hauling any child to the front of the room to sit on a small stool on the floor and being ridiculed is totally unacceptable and equates to the teacher being a bully. A good teacher would have had a conversation with the child explaining the behavior she found unacceptable (when you treat a child with respect you maintain the respect that the “ADULT” expects from the child), if that does not work contact the parent (this parent sounds involved and is requesting advise from ADULTS and not just taking the word of her child - so she does want a solution) and if all else fails visit with the principal and if needed move the child to a different teacher (being mindful that most schools will only do this once per school year).

By Penguinmom

October 14, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I don’t believe the teacher’s solution to the problem was good one. Especially if the teacher hadn’t reached out to the parent about this issue first.

As far as the previous teacher’s, A) those had to be preschool teachers since he’s now in Kindergarten. Different levels of chattiness are allowed for younger kids. B) Different teacher’s tolerate different levels of noise. I can handle a lot of talking going on in class. Some teacher’s can’t. And some children can’t so too much talking can cause another child to not learn.

Obviously, if the teacher isn’t willing to try a different method, a principal visit and possibly moving the child are the only solution.

By motherjanegoose

October 14, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

tater…. there are multitudes of “bad” teachers in our public schools..yes, this is true. There are also oodles of wonderful teachers ( whom I have met personally and they do have a heart for children). I am not addressing this towards today’s topic parent with the chatty child BUT most of the problems we have in school are a direct result of the quality of child who enters the classroom and not our government.

I never taught a class of over 30 children at once but there was a day when this happened and that was when children were sent to school with kindness and a respectful attitude.
Today’s children are self absorbed and spoiled…their parents bail them out on every turn. Intelligent teachers are leaving the profession by the droves and we will have what is left. I am happy mine are almost out the door but I fear for the teachers my potential grandchildren may have,

I told my own daughter that I am not sure if I want her to become a teacher…in 6 years things could be so much worse.

Many have criticisms for school but they have not walked in the shoes of those who have spent years there and see what is coming through the doors each year.

Times are a changing and it is difficult to be a teacher when there is no respect. Just my 2 cents worth before I head off to school…LOL!

By CP

October 14, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Having had a child myself who was singled out in Kindergarden, I can relate somewhat. He wasn’t a talker but was very afraid to try new things. He’s grown out of that to a large extent, & no, I never indulged him in getting out of something he had to do. But his teacher that year actually told me I should think about withdrawing him from school & letting him try again the next year (this was only the 2nd day of school mind you.) I didn’t & then I found out (the next year!) that she had placed him in a program without telling me. Basically it was one for learning / emotional disabilities. I only found out because his first grade teacher (who was absolutely fabulous) asked me at a parent-teacher conference why he was in the program & if I still wanted him to stay in. He was promptly taken out of the program at the beginning of the school year & made honor roll every time the rest of the year.

He wasn’t singled out in front of the class (that I know of) but I felt that he wasn’t given a fair chance in the Kindergarden class. Yes, there are some teachers who make snap decisions about some kids & don’t change their opinion. My advice is to keep bugging the principal for a conference with him/her & the teacher. Keep calling or emailing to get something scheduled. And as another posted, do not let your emotions get the better of you. Kids are resilient little things. This issue is more about the education the child is getting - how can they be learning much if they’re having to use a step-stool as a desk & not allowed to fit in like the other kids. If the teacher gets to target one kid, the other kids will have no problem following her lead.

So make the appointment. I’d even tell the teacher that you’d like to talk with her & the principal too. Telling her you’re thinking of switching classes isn’t neccessarily a bad thing. As long as it’s presented like “I just don’t think you two mesh so well together & maybe he’ll work out better with another teacher.” I don’t think he’d do worse with someone else.

And for the posters who are saying that we need to stop catering to children, keeping their self-esteem intact, whatever… Have you ever been in the role of a parent whose child is being picked on? And not by another child, but by their teacher?? It isn’t about protecting their “precious little egos.” Of course life isn’t fair, not remotely. But not sticking up for your child when you’re supposed to be the one to protect them isn’t the right lesson to teach them either. Teachers need to be able to discipline the kids in the class, but not the way this teacher was doing. Put the desk in another part of the room, take away some play time outside, assign extra work… There are other ways.

By Oakleychick

October 14, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

I had a similar incident when my son was in 2nd grade. I didn’t do anything because I firmly believe you shouldn’t undermine teachers or other authority. He is now in 10th grade and I regret my decision to this very day. You MUST stand up for your child when you feel he is being treated unfairly. You are his only advocate. Just because she is the teacher doesn’t give her the right to humiliate and degrade a child. That is what is happening. There are more than one way to address an issue. He will live with and remember this for the rest of his life.

By Annie

October 14, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Kyle Katarn

I’m hoping that you’re joking with your comments on here. You’re basically teaching your child to disrespect an adult and to overturn their decision.

A child will always think the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. And you don’t seem to have an issue with letting your child push a teacher to their breaking point.

If a teacher deems a punishment is necessary, parents should accept that and move on. Your child is not always right or perfect - accept it!

By Mattie

October 14, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe how many seem to be ok with this, or at least be willing to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt. A kindergarten student, only in school a couple of months, needs time to settle down to school rules. Boys especially have trouble sitting quietly for long periods of time. I wouldn’t have left my son there if I witnessed this. I would have taken him with me as I headed right to the principal. This teacher needs some additional training on dealing with young kids.

By Webster's Dictionary

October 14, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

If you look in any of my books for the definition of “helicopter parent” you will see the picture of one of this blogs most eloquent and loquacious writers.

By Gwinnett Parent

October 14, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

If the parent attends the Gwinnett Parent Coalition to Dismantle the School to Prison Pipeline tonight at Shiloh High School from 7-9, we will talk with her about suggestions after the workshop. The class will help her understand what to look for in her school system and how to navigate the disciplinary/intervention policies assertively but respectfully. It does not matter if her student attends GCPS or not, the same basic principals apply for most counties. For the short term, if she meets with the principal, she needs to request that the teacher is in the room with her and the principal so the mom can ask and get questions answered directly. In addition, the parent after listening and attending this meeting should ask to have her child removed from the class - and the school should comply- if the parent feels this is in the best interest of her child. This teacher is way out of line, and I doubt any county would support public humiliation as a form of a classroom intervention. If the principal does not see it this way — then the Mom is in for trouble. Send her to tonight’s meeting. If she can’t get to the meeting, give her this email directly and I will speak with her today.

By Tater

October 14, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

motherjanegoose

I agree with you… The problem is government.

The good teachers are punished for the “good” of the system.

Nobody seems to have the intestinal fortitude to stick up for some of the teachers who are trying their best to provide quality education in a comfortable learning environment.

Unfortunately we are all failing in this area because we don’t want any child’s “feelings” to get hurt.

I remember the days when the children who excelled received special recognition.

I never taught a class of over 30 children at once but there was a day when this happened and that was when children were sent to school with kindness and a respectful attitude. Today’s children are self absorbed and spoiled…their parents bail them out on every turn. Intelligent teachers are leaving the profession by the droves and we will have what is left.

The teachers are leaving the profession because the government politicians don’t give a rat’s derriere about the kids just the paycheck.

I really wish things were different.

Unfortunately, our governor is striving to have Georgia last in the country in education. He is certainly doing all he can to ignore the problem.

Without competition in the educational field we are toast as a country.

By FultonMom

October 14, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

You did the right thing by contacting the principal. As a former teacher, I can tell you that there are so many teachers that can’t handle children when they are chatty or strong willed. They don’t give “positive” reinforcement. Instead, they simply label the child and treat them accordingly. Parents, if you don’t think that teachers sit and talk about your child, believe me they do. They’re human. They develop opnions about kids and act on their feelings. I wish that there was more training, but I honestly think that many teachers don’t care enough in public schools. I did it for almost 20 years before I left, and I saw awesome teachers, that cared about their students, and I’ve seen many that had no respect for the students they taught. On the other hand, when I had my oldest in private school, it was very different. The teachers cared and it made a huge difference with my child’s confidence level. Good luck on getting this resolved. But stay the course…your child deserves it.

By Jon

October 14, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Oakleychik, you’ve got to be kidding: “He will live with and remember this for the rest of his life.” Please tell me you’re not suggesting that a kid is psychologically scarred for all time by being upbraided in front of the class.

By A

October 14, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

So, mommy is in class and disruptive son is on best behavior…and mommy believes there are worse kids in the class! LOL

I agree there is much more to this story. I am sure that the teacher, if given the chance, will tell us an earful about this child. She might have exhibited poor judgment, but if mommy was teaching her son to behave and respect authority, it would not have been necessary. Stop making excuses for him being disruptive and teach him to behave in class. If he understood that there are no rewards for disrupting the learning of others, he would not have been singled out!. I have no sympathy for the poor excuse for a mother and her rude a%% son! And I am a mother too. No, my kids would dare not behave in such a manner because they know their butts would be mine.

By lakerat

October 14, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

We had a similar problem when my son was in first grade - the teacher seemed to be singling him out on a much too frequent basis for disciplinary actions (he told us, not the teacher). So, we took the advice that some of you are suggesting and moved him to a completely different school system - going in we “warned” the new teacher of his “perceived” problems. After about 6 weeks the teacher called us to tell us that she had seen no such behavior that we had mentioned on that first day, and that, in fact, he was very well behaved and a good student - that was when we knew that our child had been unfairly treated at the prior school and that we had done the right thing in moving him and us to a new school district!

By Tater

October 14, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

motherjanegoose

I tried to put your paragraph in italics, but it didn’t work for some reason. Wanted to make sure you received the credit for making such an thought provoking comment..

By Renee

October 14, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Forsyth Mom - You’re an idiot!!!

You said: ” If you don’t like someone else disclipining your kid, home school them.”

What an absolutely stupid statement. First of all, not everyone can home school. Some of us have to work for a living. Secondly, my tax dollars go to fund that school and I have EVERY right to expect proper treatment of my child.

You’re a troll that isn’t wanted in here. Go off to the spa and get another manicure.

By 1397

October 14, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher, and, of course, the teacher is not always right! I make mistakes all the time. BUT, the STUDENTS must always be led to THINK that the teacher is always right, and that they have absolutely no hope of ever getting away with anything, and that their opinion about a disciplinary situation is meaningless if it conflicts with their teacher’s.

By 1397

October 14, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher, and, of course, the teacher is not always right! I make mistakes all the time. BUT, the STUDENTS must always be led to THINK that the teacher is always right, and that they have absolutely no hope of ever getting away with anything, and that their opinion about a disciplinary situation is meaningless if it conflicts with their teacher’s.

By 1397

October 14, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher, and, of course, the teacher is not always right! I make mistakes all the time. BUT, the STUDENTS must always be led to THINK that the teacher is always right, and that they have absolutely no hope of ever getting away with anything, and that their opinion about a disciplinary situation is meaningless if it conflicts with their teacher’s.

By chuck

October 14, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

The teacher pretty much admitted that it was the wrong choice and that she would change her tactics.

This is the key for me. If this is the case, the parent needs to move on. I don’t see the need to create animosity where none exists. The teacher admitted she screwed up. The worst that would possibly happen to the teacher is that the principal would tell her not to do it again. What purpose is served by demanding a pound of flesh? All it will do is create ill will between the parent and the teacher.

My suggestion as a 20-year veteran educator is for the parent to accept the admission of the teacher, and move on. She also needs to explain to her child that he will encounter all kinds of teachers and BOSSES in the future and he needs to learn how to do what he’s told to do.

Kindergarden is where children are prepared for the rest of their school careers. Most teachers take this process seriously and understand that the days of playing around are gone. Accountability is here to stay and teachers know that their students have to be able to do more than play. They have to be able to perform. This is what parents have asked for. This is what administrators expect. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on EVERYBODY in education to improve.

I see this as a minor issue that has been corrected. Let it go.

By ForsythMom

October 14, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Renee Then I suggest you take the responsibility of disclipining YOUR child, not the school. Send them to school properly discliplined and respectful, and you won’t have to worry about “Proper” treatment of your precious little offspring.

And my taxes pay for that school too.

QUIT MAKING YOUR KIDS WUSSIES. Allow them to learn that they are NOT the center of the universe and that there are consequences to their BAD behavior.

By FultonMom

October 14, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

1397 a teacher took it upon herself to push my child, should I not have let my child know that their behavior was wrong? My child KNEW that the teacher was wrong and the teacher ADMITTED she WAS wrong. It’s important that parents listen to their kids and decide how it should be handled and how to discuss it with their child.

By Tater

October 14, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Renee

So much for having intelligent people sharing their thoughts on this blog.

May I venture to say you are a government teacher?

By David

October 14, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

I have to join the blog on this: I have a very precocious and stubborn daughter, now in college. She always had an opinion about her teachers in elementary school, and I always dismissed her complaints and told her to get along and repect the authority of the teacher. My father, mother sister and her husband are all now retired educators so I was “sympathetic” to the teachers’ side.

However in the fourth grade she changed from complaining to crying in frustration about one particular teacher, sho she said was hateful to her and others. I ignored her complaints until about 2/3 of the school year was past. It turned out that among other stunts, this teacher would make my daughter sit UNDER her (my daughter’s) desk for the whole period for asking questions at the wrong time.
Many other parents had grievances as well, and we organized and demanded the county superintendent get involved. He came to a meeting with parents, I spoke to him personally and gave him a letter to take back for reference (and his attorneys to see.) Shortly thereafter, the teacher was moved from that school. MY BIGGEST REGRET IN 20 YEARS OF BEING A PARENT IS THAT I DID NOT RESPOND, INVESTIGATE AND MAKE A CHANGE WHEN MY DAUGHTER REPEATEDLY TOLD ME THIS WAS A MEAN TEACHER. You have seen what goes on with your son. He will NEVER forget how you respond.

By David

October 14, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I have to join the blog on this: I have a very precocious and stubborn daughter, now in college. She always had an opinion about her teachers in elementary school, and I always dismissed her complaints and told her to get along and repect the authority of the teacher. My father, mother sister and her husband are all now retired educators so I was “sympathetic” to the teachers’ side.

However in the fourth grade she changed from complaining to crying in frustration about one particular teacher, sho she said was hateful to her and others. I ignored her complaints until about 2/3 of the school year was past. It turned out that among other stunts, this teacher would make my daughter sit UNDER her (my daughter’s) desk for the whole period for asking questions at the wrong time.
Many other parents had grievances as well, and we organized and demanded the county superintendent get involved. He came to a meeting with parents, I spoke to him personally and gave him a letter to take back for reference (and his attorneys to see.) Shortly thereafter, the teacher was moved from that school. MY BIGGEST REGRET IN 20 YEARS OF BEING A PARENT IS THAT I DID NOT RESPOND, INVESTIGATE AND MAKE A CHANGE WHEN MY DAUGHTER REPEATEDLY TOLD ME THIS WAS A MEAN TEACHER. You have seen what goes on with your son. He will NEVER forget how you respond.

By David

October 14, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

I have to join the blog on this: I have a very precocious and stubborn daughter, now in college. She always had an opinion about her teachers in elementary school, and I always dismissed her complaints and told her to get along and repect the authority of the teacher. My father, mother sister and her husband are all now retired educators so I was “sympathetic” to the teachers’ side.

However in the fourth grade she changed from complaining to crying in frustration about one particular teacher, Who she said was hateful to her and others. I ignored her complaints until about 2/3 of the school year was past. I was finally mobilized when I found out that among other stunts, this teacher would make my daughter sit UNDER her (my daughter’s) desk for the whole period for asking questions at the wrong time.
Many other parents had grievances as well, and we organized and demanded the county superintendent get involved. He came to a meeting with parents, I spoke to him personally and gave him a letter to take back for reference (and his attorneys to see.) Shortly thereafter, the teacher was moved from that school. MY BIGGEST REGRET IN 20 YEARS OF BEING A PARENT IS THAT I DID NOT RESPOND, INVESTIGATE AND MAKE A CHANGE WHEN MY DAUGHTER REPEATEDLY TOLD ME THIS WAS A MEAN TEACHER. You have seen what goes on with your son. He will NEVER forget how you respond.

By parentof4

October 14, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I agree there is more to the story, HOWEVER the punishment was completely inappropriate. It sounds like as (JG stated) the teacher is overwhelmed. First of all children are fragile. Does that mean that you have to cater to them NO. But it also means that how the child is treated now in the formative years is how he will or will not like or stay in school. If you as the teacher single him out and practically bully him then he will grow up the same. Or at least hating those in power. It is a delicate balance.

Now if that was my son and we have been through something like this. I acknowledge to my child how the Teacher is the authority in the class and he has to respect her. I do not agree with the punishment and I will talk with her about the punishment. But until then you are to respect her authority and you have to sit at that stool. Then I will have a conversation with the teacher and if it is not resolved with the teacher and principal. I would be extremely upset if there was a problem with my child and she took this measure WITHOUT taking to me first. I let all my teachers know that I am here to work with them, they just have to communicate with me.

By JR

October 14, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe how many parents take a story from a 6 year old as the Word of God. As Bill Cosby said, the only time a child is truthful is when they’re in pain. Certainly not after they’re telling mommy why they got in trouble at school, and certainly not once they’ve learned that mommy will believe everything that comes out their mouths.

By GLAMDiva

October 14, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Tater - I am a government teacher AND I agree with Forsyth Mom…because I was mom before I was a teacher. 2nd career as a matter of fact… Teachers have too much to contend with today…DISRESPECT, IPODS, CELL PHONES, REVEALING CLOTHES, and HORMONES…

By Poupon

October 14, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

My son had a teacher like this for kindergarten and by the end of the year the entire class was wetting and defecating in their pants, which is a sure sign a child is being abused. No teacher has a right to degrade a child. Not under any circumstances.

I would meet with the principal and ask for the forms to file a formal complaint, and file it immediately. Do not do as I did, and work your way through the system. Act aggressively. It has been 11 years and we are still dealing with this, as are other children from my son’s class. His para-pro, who was also a victim of bullying by this teacher found us a couple years ago and checked on us and told us this. The biggest tool schools use to protect themselves is time. Don’t let them! Get your child out of that class TODAY and become a constant presence in his new class. Ideally this will be in a different school, because abusive teachers don’t act alone - it is almost always a top down situation and all the teachers are ‘off’ in some way.

As for talking too much, that is a medical symptom, and it could be one of anxiety or of ADD, etc. Speak to a psychologist about it - not your pediatrician. We found pediatricians know very little about behavioral issues.

Best of luck to you. It is not easy to learn to take the gloves off, but when it is your children, sometimes you have to.

By Nancy

October 14, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Teresa - I just want you to know that I enjoy and appreciate your blogs, the questions you ask, and your thoughts on various parenting matters.

I would also like to note, however; that the comments section can be very difficult to read. I’m sorry some of your readers are narrow minded - that must be very demoralizing for you. Thus, I wanted to just say I appreciate all you add to ajc.com and hope you continue to do so :)

Sincerely, a working mom who supports public schools

By Tater

October 14, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

GLAMdiva

Teachers have too much to contend with today…DISRESPECT, IPODS, CELL PHONES, REVEALING CLOTHES, and HORMONES…

And who has allowed this to happen?

By Melinda

October 14, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Dear Local Mother, You seem to have spent the entire time mentioning how “other” children have just as many issues as your son does. Perhaps that is the problem. Stop focusing on what all the other kids are doing. Stating your son is no worse in behavior than they are, does not solve your child’s real problem…. He is discipline challenged and does not follow simple directions - such as be quiet. Sometimes embarassment is the best form of behavior modification. If he wants to be so chatty, that indicates he wants to be the center of attention… So, the teacher gave him what he wanted…to be front row and center…where everyone notices him. If it is “Uncomfortable”, the child remembers and most likely does not repeat the offense. You need to move past what the teacher and the other children do and focus more on the real issue - your little angel is not a little angel. Have you taken into consideration that the time this teacher spends on your child takes away learning time from children that are not “too chatty”?

By Mom to 2 Teenagers

October 14, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Teachers make mistakes and it is up to the parents to oversee everything that is going on in their child’s life or accept the consequences. My recommendation to all Parents is to go with your gut. If it doesn’t seem right, do something about it. I once yelled at my son for failing a test that I knew he had studied for. Upon closer examination, I found that all the answers marked incorrect were actually correct! When I asked the teacher about it, she said that a student helper had graded the paper. Never said she was sorry. My children no longer attend public schools. Public schools failed my children both educationally and morally. Good teachers often aren’t supported by the administration. Bad teachers only make the situation worse. If you think this is bad, just wait until your son is in HighSchool. Get in the habit of staying involved. You don’t have to fight all your children’s battles, but choose the ones that are important and help your child.

By Regina

October 14, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

We had a similar experience when our son was in kindergarten. Our son had never taken naps and when his teacher complained that he was noisy during naptime, I told her that if she would give him a book to read or math problems to solve, he would remain quiet. She said, “We don’t read and do math problems in kindergarten.” After meeting with the assistant principal and counselor, he was finally allowed to go to a first grade classroom to read while his classmates napped. Be persistant! It took several meetings before something was done. He is now a senior in college and is doing very well. Fortunately, his first grade teacher understood energetic, eager children!

By Kathy

October 14, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I am a former Kindergarten teacher. 5 year old children are chatty….right motherjanegoose (fellow Kindergarten teacher)? When you teach young children you know that about them. It sounds to me like this teacher needs a little more training. Her consequence for the child’s behavior and the comments she made to another child are completely inappropriate. It is never okay for anyone, teacher or parent, to humiliate a child. The parent has every right to to question the situation. Theresa, your friend has done the right thing by requesting a meeting with administration. When I was teaching I saw children moved to another classroom after having conflicts with the teacher and the children were fine with the new teacher. Sometimes there really is a personality/learning-style clash between the teacher and a student.

By TheBlogger

October 14, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Yes.

There are some professions that the general public needs to trust - doctors, police officers, firemen, and teachers.

Does this mean that people in those professions are always right? Heck no! It does mean that you have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong.

Imagine standing up to a police officer during a bust the way some students stand up to teachers and see what happens!

Sure, there are a few bad apples in any profession. We all hear from time to time of the police officer that was caught taking bribes, etc. However, I will say that the random teacher accused of doing anything remotely wrong is on the 6 o’clock news faster than you could sneexe.

Regina One lesson that it sounds like your son needs to learn soon is that of ‘fitting in.’ While your son may excel in academics or whatever, if he doesn’t learn the norms of society and to fit in, he will not be real successful in life.

Honestly, what is the harm of him taking a nap with the other children? Even if he had never done it before, would it have killed him to lie there a few minutes? What it sounds like he did learned was that he can do whatever he wants and that whatever the teacher says/wants doesn’t matter. He has also learned that mommy will always come to the rescue.

Is this really the type of adult that you want to raise?

You say that he is now in college and is doing well….. we shall see. He is not yet a true adult and time will tell if he ever learned those lessons of which I speak.

By Becky

October 14, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

JR,not all 6 year old children lie on about everything..I have a 6 year old grandson that will tell me the truth about everything, even knowing that what he did was wrong & that he will get in trouble..I have taught him from the beginning that I would rather know the truth, then his punishment won’t be as bad..If he has ever broken anything, torn something up or spilled anything, he always makes me aware of it..

As for the punishment that they teacher gave out, I too would have taken it to someone higher up..

By Seth

October 14, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

….yet these same parents are the ones keeping the paddle out of the school. I have 5 children and say this often…either discipline your children or don’t have kids. If you can’t teach your children to behave you have no business causing the rest of us to have to deal with them.

By Your Kids Are Growing Up Wimps

October 14, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

POUPON I doubt that the “entire” class was doing what you say they were doing - exaggerating much?

Look - it boils down to this - you’re all raising a bunch of wimps. I had teachers who were mean as snakes and just downright hateful, but when I complained about it my parents said “deal with it” and “respect them”. SO, I did. And I’m now a 38 year old well adjusted successful adult who takes responsibility for his own actions.

I’m raising a nephew by adoption and I can tell you that he knows just exactly who is in charge in the classroom and it isn’t him.

By Michelle

October 14, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Yes, the teacher was out of line.. I think alot of teachers are, when I was in 1st grade my teacher didn’t like me at all and if I didn’t do my homework she would make me sit in the classroom during lunch and I wouldn’t get to eat.. I also am having some problems with my sons 4th grade teacher, she has done some strange things to him in class.. Never once sent a note home telling me he is having problems.

I believe that if the teacher student relationship does not match then there are going to be problems. My daughter was in 3rd grade and she and her teacher did not click and my daughter had a hard time in the class, this from a child who has had straight A’s since school started.. Then in 4th grade she got all A’s again.. hmmm go figure.

I would say take the child out of the class, the teacher should have told you about the chatty problem so that you can take care of it instead of punishing him over and over again..

By gertie

October 14, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

tell your kids to shutup when a teacher asks them to. My wife teaches K and is amazed at how many of her kids have complete disregard for doing as they’re told.

By Mom of 4

October 14, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Mr Nice Guy: you said, “Please get over it. Perhaps the teacher didn’t do the right thing, but there comes a time when Mommy and Daddy no longer come to the rescue; the child must also learn to be independent as well as to learn the truth about the world - life is not fair.” My goodness! A Kindergartner is expected to ‘get over it,” and ‘learn to be independant?’ I’m stunned! It is a parents duty to watch over their children; even while at school, and well past the age of Kindergarten! Please!!!!

Back to the matter at hand…yes, this teacher handled the situation very inappropriately. This should indeed be taken up with the principal in a calm manner. The parents should continue to be active in the child’s school life, and support the teacher as much as possible. If the child continues to be bullied by the teacher or the 2 just can’t seem to mesh, then the child should be moved to another classroom. Plain and simple.

We had a similar problem when we lived in another state. My child was ‘chatty,’ and was disrupting the class during a movie. After he ignored the teachers verbal coaxings, she reached from behind and pulled his hair. Was she wrong? Absolutely! Was he wrong? Absolutely! We met with the principal & teacher. She admitted her action and apologized in writing. Our son (he was in 1st grade) was also held responsible for his actions. The teacher was then on the principal’s ‘radar,’and the rest of the year was good. My son is now 13 and just the other day said, “Mom, remember Mrs. So & so that pulled my hair?” I told him I did. He said, “she wasn’t right to do that, but I was wrong, too. She really was a good teacher.” In this case, a negative was turned to a positive, and all those involved learned a lesson. INVOLVEMENT is the key!

By Lori

October 14, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

It is way out of line for this teacher to humiliate your child in front of the class. Definitely take that up with the principal. Isolating a student is not necessarily a bad thing, but the way this teacher has done it is inappropriate. The child should not be made to sit on the floor, simply move their desk to a different location. Clearly she should have informed you of the problem with your child being chatty. There could be a solution that no one has thought of. Many students are chatty when they get bored. For all we know, you child may not be challenged enough. I’ve got many “gifted” children in my extended family, and all of them got in trouble at school until they were entered into the gifted program. Punishing kindergarten students in such a fashion is just not acceptable. This teacher should try to learn better classroom management skills and also learn to better understand her students individual needs.

By dogmama

October 14, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

When my son was in 3rd grade he had a mean teacher. He was always a good kid and never got into trouble but this teacher was just plain mean and hateful and the kids were scared of her. My son even had nightmares and was all stressed because he tried so hard to please her but she still was mean to him. Many of the other parents liked her and some even requested her for their kids because she got the kids to behave and to do homework but it was obvious to me it was because they were all afraid of her.

One day, she was out in the hall gossiping with other teachers when the intercom came on and said that there was a phone call for her. My son and 2 others were brave enough to go out in the hall to tell her, but she wouldn’t look at them or acknowledge them and they were too fearful to touch her to get her to notice them so they went back inside and sat down. Later when she came back in, my son raised his hand and told her that she had a phone call. She then said “You little idiot, why didn’t you come out in the hall and get me.” He came home crying because he believed he was an idiot and cried himself to sleep and I called the principal the next day and set up a meeting. The principal stated that his teacher was an excellent teacher, defended the teacher’s actions (which she admitted, but said it was an important phone call from her lawyer) and refused to move him to another class because she said it was already 6 weeks into the year and too late. I then told the principal that if she didn’t move him to another class that I would call the media and tell them about the situation and let them decide if it was appropriate for a teacher. She then agreed to move him even though it was 6 weeks into the year and he was moved into a wonderful teacher’s class where he had a great year. He never had a problem with any other teacher.

Insisting that he be moved was the best decision I ever made in his elementary school years. Sometimes there are just bad teachers and you have to protect your kids. By the way, turns out the lawyer phone call the teacher was expecting was because she was losing custody of her children due to allegations she was abusing them.

By dogmama

October 14, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

When my son was in 3rd grade he had a mean teacher. He was always a good kid and never got into trouble but this teacher was just plain mean and hateful and the kids were scared of her. My son even had nightmares and was all stressed because he tried so hard to please her but she still was mean to him. Many of the other parents liked her and some even requested her for their kids because she got the kids to behave and to do homework but it was obvious to me it was because they were all afraid of her.

One day, she was out in the hall gossiping with other teachers when the intercom came on and said that there was a phone call for her. My son and 2 others were brave enough to go out in the hall to tell her, but she wouldn’t look at them or acknowledge them and they were too fearful to touch her to get her to notice them so they went back inside and sat down. Later when she came back in, my son raised his hand and told her that she had a phone call. She then said “You little idiot, why didn’t you come out in the hall and get me.” He came home crying because he believed he was an idiot and cried himself to sleep and I called the principal the next day and set up a meeting. The principal stated that his teacher was an excellent teacher, defended the teacher’s actions (which she admitted, but said it was an important phone call from her lawyer) and refused to move him to another class because she said it was already 6 weeks into the year and too late. I then told the principal that if she didn’t move him to another class that I would call the media and tell them about the situation and let them decide if it was appropriate for a teacher. She then agreed to move him even though it was 6 weeks into the year and he was moved into a wonderful teacher’s class where he had a great year. He never had a problem with any other teacher.

Insisting that he be moved was the best decision I ever made in his elementary school years. Sometimes there are just bad teachers and you have to protect your kids. By the way, turns out the lawyer phone call the teacher was expecting was because she was losing custody of her children due to allegations she was abusing them.

By TheBlogger

October 14, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

dogmama How dare you call that teacher “bad.” Evidently there were many parents that felt that teacher was “good.”

It would be fair to say that you possibly had a bad experience with that teacher, but to make a blanket statement like that is just wrong.

By Grace

October 14, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that whether there is more to this story or not is completely beside the point. This is a child being humiliated by an adult. This is abusive is what it is. I don’t care how ‘chatty’ he is… Yes! Take this up with the Principal, the school board, whatever you have to do. Personally, I think he should be reassigned to another classroom. If you are not vigilant now, this will shape his future encounters with teachers as well. We hate to believe in it, but children still get labeled. As his mother, you are still his best advocate and protector. No matter what circumstances led up to this event, to know that an adult in a position of authority cannot restrain her own opinions well enough to allow for a more impartial punishment is simply amazing to me. That takes some gall! Good luck!

By Grace

October 14, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that whether there is more to this story or not is completely beside the point. This is a child being humiliated by an adult. This is abusive is what it is. I don’t care how ‘chatty’ he is… Yes! Take this up with the Principal, the school board, whatever you have to do. Personally, I think he should be reassigned to another classroom. If you are not vigilant now, this will shape his future encounters with teachers as well. We hate to believe in it, but children still get labeled. As his mother, you are still his best advocate and protector. No matter what circumstances led up to this event, to know that an adult in a position of authority cannot restrain her own opinions well enough to allow for a more impartial punishment is simply amazing to me. That takes some gall! Good luck!

By Grace

October 14, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that whether there is more to this story or not is completely beside the point. This is a child being humiliated by an adult. This is abusive is what it is. I don’t care how ‘chatty’ he is… Yes! Take this up with the Principal, the school board, whatever you have to do. Personally, I think he should be reassigned to another classroom. If you are not vigilant now, this will shape his future encounters with teachers as well. We hate to believe in it, but children still get labeled. As his mother, you are still his best advocate and protector. No matter what circumstances led up to this event, to know that an adult in a position of authority cannot restrain her own opinions well enough to allow for a more impartial punishment is simply amazing to me. That takes some gall! Good luck!

By Typical Parent of Government School

October 14, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Helicopter Parent Alert!

Government School Parent Alert!

There is soooooooo much more to this story.

Theresa, you are so air-headish! The teacher had no defense - you saw it through the email string? Ummmmmm, do you think the government teacher would maybe just write that to make the helicopter parent go away???? DUH!

She bothered the principal? Horrible!!!!!! Poor principal.

The kid is bad and the mom is worse. That’s the story. Why do we have to comment on something so simple?

You asked for advice for the parent?

OK! Here it is:

1) You are sending your kid to a government school. You should be worrying about a lot of bigger things.

2) You are an annoying helicopter parent, and the principal is now pis*ed.

3) Watch your grammar if you’re trying to get in the paper: You don’t make matters “WORST,” you make matters “WORSE.”

By Dawsonmom

October 14, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Forsyth mom: You rock!

By Steve

October 14, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I think that disciplining a child for being chatty or disruptive is absolutely warranted; however, sitting that child on a stool in front of the class is out of line.

My biggest piece of reasoning behind that argument is that the desk has been taken away. By doing that, the teacher makes it more difficult for the child to accomplish his classwork, and/or learn classroom lessons. The most important reason the children are in school is to learn. I think being in a comfortable workspace is vital to learning.

While I think that no punishment should affect the childs ability to do his classwork in comfort, I do think isolation in a corner at a proper desk is appropriate.

I’m also not big into humiliation as a deterrent to bad behavior. At least to me, humiliation can be an inspiration to act out more.

If someone made a fool of me as a child, I’d want to get back at them. Taking fair punishment on the other hand, was never an issue for me. When I was in elementary school, my desk had to be moved to the corner a couple of times for talking. I understood, and took my punishment without hard feelings toward the teacher or school.

We’ve got to be careful not to be too soft on the kids either, so they will learn how to handle themselves properly when they are older.

I do think that it is not the place of a child in school to confront the teacher regarding improper punishment as one person suggested. They should listen to authority, and present their concerns to their parents unless the teacher is trying to make the child do something illegal or immoral.

Getting an attitude started that allows a child to contest unfair punishment directly to an authority figure, could cause the child a great deal of trouble when they get older in the working world. I think we are all asked to do things that aren’t fair to us at work.

I know some people with the attitude that they don’t take any crap from their boss, but they tend to bounce from job to job and/or are never happy.

By Military Mom

October 14, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

I wondered how long it would take for someone to cry Abuse.

These are the same parents who think a spanking is beating up a child or child abuse.

Idiots. Ya’ll got no business raising kids. It’s scary. You are raising a bunch of whimps who will have to run to mommy all the time. Cut the damn apron strings and make these kids responsbile and respectful before you turn them loose into society.

Be afraid, VERY afraid.

By Jane

October 14, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Typical Parent of Government School - You have Major issues are you sure you don’t have a teacher issue from the past? Public schools systems work provided that the parents are involved. In this instance per your explaination the teacher wrote what was needed to make the parent go away - then what makes you so sure the teacher does not do the same thing with the students? A GOOD teacher addresses a parents concerns. A BAD teacher provides the answers she/he thinks the parents want to hear - this is not communication and keeps the parents from fully understanding what the issue truly has become. You are not bothing the principal when you have a concern - this is part of the JOB!

By jeff

October 14, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

The teacher needs to have some type of dicipline done to her, we do not send our children to a public school and have to put up with nonsense like this, that is just ridiculous that she couldnt come up with another way of handling his talking, use other forms of silent lunch or no play time, not making him sit in the floor like an animal.

By John

October 14, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Wow, I remember some of things teachers did when I was in school. If a kid cried she would put a sign on them saying “I am a Baby”. I myself was paddled weekly, I also had to wear a dunce cap one time for doing the worst on a quiz. This was in first and second grade. I am not messed up because of it either.

By ccs

October 14, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Should the teacher have made an example of the child in front of the class? No. If she was having difficulty with the child’s behavior, she should have informed the parent. However, it sounds like the teacher knows that she made a bad choice. Teachers are human-everyone get frustrated and makes mistakes. I would address the incident with the teacher and the principal. As far as requesting that the child be moved to another class, this incident does not seem serious enough to me to warrant that.

By DawgGirl

October 14, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

I’m a middle school teacher, and generally my reaction to questions like this are “Heck yes you support the teacher!” However, it is obvious from this experience that something isn’t right. Her first step should be to talk to the teacher, find out what is going on, and what other options she might have. If the teacher isn’t receptive to this then go immediately to the assitant principal or principal. If you haven’t first addresed the issue to the teacher, her bosses aren’t going to be receptive. If you don’t receive action at that time, then keep moving up the ladder. I teach 8th graders where on occasion I have publically called a child out on his or her behavior. At this age, they need to be emabarrassed about their behavior. Even with that, though, you need to know the child before you use it because it can often backfire on you. In a kindergarten class where a child is supposed to be getting his first experience in education, this is the last place you should be treating a child in this manner. Admit to those in charge that you know your child can be talkative or handfull, but explain that it isn’t being disciplined that is the problem, it is the kind of discipline that is the issue.

By LB

October 14, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Just like kids, there’s not many good teacher’s anymore.

By Lynda

October 14, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I have a VERY chatty high schooler. She has been “chatty” since Kindergarten. The teachers have done EVERYTHING possible to get this kid to shut up. So have I. I have given up. She is a senior and there really isn’t anything I can say to her to get her to shut her mouth. I have tried reasoning with her, punishing her, etc. to no avail.

I have told her she interrupts the teacher, and that there are kids there who actually want to learn, and she is interferring with that.

I have asked her numerous times to shut her mouth and open her ears. Nothing.

So I asked her what is so important that cannot wait until lunch? She said, nothing, I just like to talk.

It doesn’t bother me at all if the teacher singles her out, puts her on the floor, etc. The teacher needs to have control in their classroom.

Just two weeks ago, one of her teachers called me to complain about her mouth. I took the car away from her for two weeks. Still Nothing.

Now at home, I can’t get her to talk. Every question is answer with a grunt or a nod of the head. Can’t get her to say a single word at home, but can’t shut her up at school!!!!

By A. Nony Mouse

October 14, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

I have done it and I might do it again. One of my kids was a pill and needed a bit of attention now and again. If he was handled correctly he would thrive if not he could be a pain. My other is super easy and favorite of most of her teachers.
Her 4th grade teacher was one of those that needed to be out of the profession. I spent lots of time at the school that year.
I will say the mom in the story was nicer than I would be. But, I would deal with that child at home, to be sure!!!

By Khassi

October 14, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

By Annoyed Mom

October 14, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

While I understand the need to allow a child to grow and learn life’s lessons on his own, degrading a child only teaches them the way to fail. I’m sure there’s another side to this but even the teacher has admitted to a mistake.

As for the government school bashing, yes the government public school program is flawed but not everyone can afford private school you elitist snobs. Why don’t you try using this blog to help and inform people instead of bashing them. You’re no better than the bully on the playground (in fact, you probably WERE the bully on the playground).

By Joyce

October 14, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

A parent of a small child has the obligation to take up for him/her in this kind of situation. I don’t think the child should be in on the conversation; it’s a matter for adults, not children. In the past, I’ve discussed negative issues with my son’s teachers, but he was never aware of it.

By Joyce

October 14, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I would also add that changing teachers be a last resort. While I don’t condone this kind of behavior with such a small child, even small children need to learn how to deal with difficulties, not run from them. I’d be willing to bet that there are a lot of things that this child likes about this teacher.

By Melinda

October 14, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Tell on the teacher…tell on the teacher….how about telling the kid to simply shut his mouth in class. OMG… why is the teacher having to deal with your child not behaving so much???? And big wahhhh your poor 5 year old was humiliated. Why don’t you tell him it won’t happen again if he just follows direction? Seems like the simple solution to me…quit trying to make this out like you are the victim here. The teacher is the victim…first she deals with your child not minding and then she deals with the mother that is concerned about everything BUT that the child DOES NOT MIND…..

By NO Obama '08

October 14, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

And the wussification of american children continues.

By Sugar

October 14, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Melinda ROCKS!!!! And thank you!!!

By motherjanegoose

October 14, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Wow…this was a lot to read!

I hope some of you paid attention to Kathy ( a former K teacher in Gwinnett) I met her while visiting her students years ago and we became friends… She knows all about Kinders who talk and her answer was good.

I took Kathy to lunch last week , as I had not seen her in 3 years ( since baby E) and while we do not agree of every aspect of life we do know Kindergarteners.

She “found me” on the Momania blog a tracked me down to see if it was me…we have had a good laugh about it.

NOW…pay attention here everyone…THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE TEACHER IS WRONG and your child is right.

My son was in a Sophomore AP World History class at Collins Hill several years ago. He made A’s and B’s all through school and was getting a D. I challenged him to buck up and do more etc. He was SO frustrated and at his wits end.
I met with his teacher and she said he was lazy….this proceeded for weeks. Finally, I met with the teacher and the History Chair and demanded that he be moved. We argued and I won. His next semester brought him an A….with a different teacher. Guess what…that teacher had moved to Collins Hill from Berkmar and left Collins Hill shortly after my son’s sophomore year. GEE…wonder if it was her????

When he applied to colleges, everyone asked about the D on his transcript and rolled their eyes as his SAT was stellar and other grades were good.

MORAL…do not jump at the first issue but do not sit back when there seems like something could be wrong. I should have shown my teeth earlier in the semester…that was the only real issue I had in public school with my son.

Teachers are not perfect and neither are bosses…sometimes we need to know how to wade through the crap!

Interesting comments everyone!!!

By ForsythMom

October 14, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Pacman Jones of the NFL has been suspended BY the NFL for conduct off the field. I wonder if his Mommie is going to talk to the NFL commissioner about her son being singled out…….

You are responsible for your actions, and your actions have consequences!

Obviously this man never heard that growing up. Mommie probably bailed him out every time he got in trouble. And look where he is now. SUSPENDED.

By Denise

October 14, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

There is NO ONE who is right 100% of the time. There are 3 sides to this story: kid’s/teacher’s/the truth. We can all agree on that, right?

Anyway, punishment is always going to be a source of conflict in our society. We have so many views on abuse and self-esteem and warranted discipline that we’re never going to agree on what is appropriate all the time. However, I do believe a 5 year old should not be humiliated, period. Discipline in this case could have been as simple as moving his desk to the front of the class or facing his desk to the wall. If he is constantly disruptive, the teacher could have sent him to the principal’s office and/or called a parent-teacher (and principal if necessary) conference. Having him sit on the floor is never okay. How is he supposed to do the work that he is sent to school to do?

When I was in 3rd grade, I had an onery teacher. We thought she was the oldest and meanest woman on the face of the earth. She had very strict rules and we knew that corporal punishment was ALWAYS going to happen. Sometimes it was a swat with a yard stick but sometimes she would smack us with rulers in the palm of our hands. Now, I got several swats and my mama basically said “well you need to be quiet then” but when I got blisters from having my hand hit with a ruler, my mama went to the school. It was not a matter of the discipline; I disagreed that I did something wrong and my mama told me that it wasn’t up to me. It was a matter of “don’t you EVER physically hurt my child again”.

There has to be a balance between teaching a lesson and humiliating and/or physically harming a child. I think this teacher stepped over the line with the stool and sitting on the floor. The mama should address the situation RESPECTFULLY and with an open mind to more of the story. The parent and teacher should come to some resolution that both are held to. The teacher should be given more guidance on how to handle certain things better but should not have to call each parent every single time the child does something “wrong” to make it “fair”.

I know this much - I’m glad my engineering co-workers only ACT like 5 year olds sometimes because dealing with real 5 year olds and their parents seems like a hassle.

By TheBlogger

October 14, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Clue: If you don’t want a teacher to discipline your kids, then teach them the proper way to behave! It really is simple as that!

However, that’s the core of the problem here. Too many parents not properly parenting their child.

Yes, teachers make mistakes. Yes, not all teachers are perfect. But, ya know? Life isn’t always a bowl of cherries and it is important for a student to learn how to deal with all situations. If your child realizes that mommy or daddy will run to the rescue at any opportunity, take a guess at what kind of adult your child will turn out to be….

By Shannon

October 14, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Like everyone is saying, I am sure there is more to this story, but it sounds like this parent has been involved and is continuing to be and that is a good thing. However, a teacher shouldn’t have to put up with misbehavior- probably could pick a better punishment. Main thing here- MOST, not all, but most, public school teachers (especially those who graduated in the last decade), are very poorly educated, ill-prepared to do anything, much less teach, not so bright people. I did say MOST. Unless some huge changes occur in our country’s educational system, there is NO WAY I will have children unless I can afford to put them in a very good private school.

By Renee

October 14, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Hey TheBlogger - I’ve read an awful lot of stupid comments you posted on this blog today.

Let’s look at the latest one: “Clue: If you don’t want a teacher to discipline your kids, then teach them the proper way to behave! It really is simple as that!” WHAT?!?! Even if you teach your child to be an Angel, he/she will mess up once in a while - You’re obviously not a real parent if you think well taught children are perfect ALL THE TIME.

Another part of that stupid comment you made: “If your child realizes that mommy or daddy will run to the rescue at any opportunity, take a guess at what kind of adult your child will turn out to be….” The child will understand love, appreciation and respect. Some times your child is wronged - if you don’t stand up for him/her, SHAME ON YOU!!!

By Let's Blame it on the Teacher, and not on the Parent/Child! Let's be Stupid!

October 14, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Yes, that’s it!

The kid is a horrible disruption to the class!

What should we do:

1) Discipline the child so that others can learn - You know, it IS their right to learn in a distraction-free environment!

Or……….

2) Let’s blame it all on the teacher!

Number 2 wins here.

Good God, go discipline your kids so that the others in the class don’t have to suffer. Those poor kids can’t learn b/c your child refuses to be quiet during learning time. Oh, but that’s right — It’s the teacher’s fault your child is “chatty.”

Oh, and by the way: “Chatty” is a really nice term for “undisciplined, ungrateful little boy and mother who care nothing about the wellbeings of the other kids. “

Who cares if the other kids’ learning suffer b/c of your “chatty” kid? He’s so cute! He should NEVER be punished! Oh, and if he is — Let’s get the PRINCIPAL involved! That’s always fun!

Oh, and mom: When you get these “I made a mistake” and “sorry” emails from the teacher/prinicpal: They don’t mean it. They’re laughing at you and writing it to get you to GO AWAY! They’re talking about you behind your back. So don’t think you’ve won. You’ve hurt the education of the others in the class.

Nice. That’s classy.

By you nust be kidding

October 14, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

MotherJaneGoose…noticed a comment you made here, “we argued, I won” when referring to your disagreement with your son’s grade/teacher. That says a lot about you. I noticed you failed to mention the score your son made on his AP exam. I am sure that was just an oversight on your part. His SAT scores don’t mean crap…but it was nice for you to remind everyone how well your son does academically, now lets see how he does in the real world. BTW, “show your teeth”…is that supposed to be intimidating. I love parents who blow smoke!

By motherjanegoose

October 15, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

You asked, so I will tell you… he did not take the AP test in History, as he switched out of the AP track . But he did take the AP Calculus test and made a 5 which is rare and he has not had to take any Math in college whatsoever.
Maybe he may know one or two things…

He also took other AP tests but I am not going rattle on about those scores.

I argued because they were backing a teacher ( whom I felt) was not up to snuff. As an educator, I know that schools protect their own… They told me all sorts of things that were smokescreens and since I train teachers all over the United States and teachers nationally tell me about their state’s criteria and college admissions procedures I called their bluff.
This is called being informed when you go to meet with the teacher…not just whining about your own child. My point for mentioning all of this was to let readers know that you DO need to keep your eyes open. I also mentioned that this was the only incident I have had all through the years. I typically let things work themselves out. Since you have opened this can of worms, I will tell you that a Gwinnett administrator ( whom I later talked to about this subject) told me that I should have gone up the ladder to him and he would have taken up the grade with the teacher and straightened it out. He apologized that it stayed on my son’s record. The teacher was long gone by the time we had this conversation. So it is there and obviously did not hurt his college admission.

Have you paid attention to the fact that I AM an educator…not all teachers are perfect…some have no clue…trust me…I meet these folks every week. Sometimes you do need to blow smoke. If SAT scores mean nothing…then why do we pay so much attention to them, When we spoke to college admissions ( with our son), they told us that future academic performance is based on SAT not high school grades. Perhaps you know something that I am unaware of. Please share. I am apologizing to Lakerat as I have tried not to divulge family info but when the topic warrants…I have done so. My son is in the real world and working in his field. He has already been promised a job when he is finished with school. .He has been with the same company longer than most of those he works with.
Just my 2 cents worth…

please remember that running into the school and whining about everything is NOT appropriate but once in a while your radar indicates there is a real problem. If something is wrong…I WILL stand up for my children but not use the school as a revolving door each time my child is upset….things can work themselves out most of the time.

I have a college friend who is a high school principal in the Dallas area and I ran this problem by her…she said I did the right thing and she would expect a parent to come to her if this happened in her school. To each his own! Sorry for the long post…off to school!

By motherjanegoose

October 15, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

FYI…My friend is a principal in the Dallas TX area…not Dallas GA…a bit of a difference although I do love Dallas GA.

By JATL

October 15, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

I have to say that I agree with others that there are two sides to this story -having been a public school teacher, that’s always the case. HOWEVER, the one glaring part that would have me as a parent VERY upset is that the talking was this out of control to warrant this punishment -but I had never been contacted about it. I taught HIGH SCHOOL and we had to all but have the parents over for dinner to do anything to the little 17 year old darlings who still weren’t supposed to be responsible for themselves. If I had a kindergarten student in this situation, I would certainly expect to be called about the problem. If this was a one day or half day solution when he was being terribly disruptive, I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but if it became a daily routine and he was being singled out constantly, I would have to chat with the teacher and the principal in a conference. And Forsyth Mom there is a HUGE difference in being a stupid helicopter parent (which I think most home school parents are), and being a CONCERNED parent who is involved in their child’s life -particularly when the kid is only 5!

By ateacher2

October 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

CP, Could not have said it better myself. Your response hit the nail on the head; we educate the children we are given. Many come from homes with little or no respect for authority or education. Kids hear their parents belittle teachers, supervisors, doctors and anyone else with a bit of authority. Kids need to learn to respect people. I was a talker in school during first grade. The teacher put me in front of the room in a chair, my back to everyone. I had to sit there without a desk to work on. I was expected to still get my work done despite the inconvenience. The note home explained it all and my dear mother took me to school the next day to make me apologize to the teacher for disrupting her teaching and the classroom learning. I have been teaching 10 years now and I see a decline every year in the level of respect shown to teachers. I left a higher paying job and took up teaching as a second career because I felt a strong need to try and make a difference. I’m no longer sure I did the right thing. Kids learn from their parents what they see and hear. Based on that, many of my students won’t last in the working world and will end up moving from one low level job to another the rest of their lives. Bring back the respect for teachers and I’ll just bet you’ll see a difference all the way around, from the bottom up.

By ateacher2

October 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

CP, Could not have said it better myself. Your response hit the nail on the head; we educate the children we are given. Many come from homes with little or no respect for authority or education. Kids hear their parents belittle teachers, supervisors, doctors and anyone else with a bit of authority. Kids need to learn to respect people. I was a talker in school during first grade. The teacher put me in front of the room in a chair, my back to everyone. I had to sit there without a desk to work on. I was expected to still get my work done despite the inconvenience. The note home explained it all and my dear mother took me to school the next day to make me apologize to the teacher for disrupting her teaching and the classroom learning. I have been teaching 10 years now and I see a decline every year in the level of respect shown to teachers. I left a higher paying job and took up teaching as a second career because I felt a strong need to try and make a difference. I’m no longer sure I did the right thing. Kids learn from their parents what they see and hear. Based on that, many of my students won’t last in the working world and will end up moving from one low level job to another the rest of their lives. Bring back the respect for teachers and I’ll just bet you’ll see a difference all the way around, from the bottom up.

By ateacher2

October 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

CP, Could not have said it better myself. Your response hit the nail on the head; we educate the children we are given. Many come from homes with little or no respect for authority or education. Kids hear their parents belittle teachers, supervisors, doctors and anyone else with a bit of authority. Kids need to learn to respect people. I was a talker in school during first grade. The teacher put me in front of the room in a chair, my back to everyone. I had to sit there without a desk to work on. I was expected to still get my work done despite the inconvenience. The note home explained it all and my dear mother took me to school the next day to make me apologize to the teacher for disrupting her teaching and the classroom learning. I have been teaching 10 years now and I see a decline every year in the level of respect shown to teachers. I left a higher paying job and took up teaching as a second career because I felt a strong need to try and make a difference. I’m no longer sure I did the right thing. Kids learn from their parents what they see and hear. Based on that, many of my students won’t last in the working world and will end up moving from one low level job to another the rest of their lives. Bring back the respect for teachers and I’ll just bet you’ll see a difference all the way around, from the bottom up.

By motherjanegoose

October 15, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

ateacher2 you made some great points! I have always backed the teacher at every turn…unless something seems fishy. Then, I check in with other parents ( which I did with my son) and schedule a meeting.

It is completely inappropriate to have run ins with educators on every point you differ. Kids do learn from their parents and mine have learned that I generally will take the teacher’s side first…unless something REALLY seems wrong.

I spoke with my Kinder friend Kathy yesterday and we talked about how there certainly are personality issues in the classroom and that many principals will move a child if this seems appropriate,. Guess what…while you may not like your child’s teacher, the teachers do not like all of the kids either. This is true.

I was thinking about this on my way to work this morning and recalled that I never had a parent who wanted to take their child out of my class but each year there were several who told me that they would be requesting me for their children. LOL Oh well, I guess I might have done a good job.

Also, here is why I have to bare my teeth sometimes…when you try to be reasonable and you get no response, then you bare your teeth. I purchased a brand new side by side refrigerator in August, after spending the entire summer scoping them out. My regular one was 11 years old and I was worried it may poop out. After 5 weeks….the NEW ( fully loaded) refrigerator pooped out…it was 60 degrees inside. They sent out a repairman who was prompt and courteous and told us that this model ( a major brand which I have in all of my other appliances) has a defect and they are fixing them left and right. I called to food recovery line to see about a claim on ALL the food I threw out…since I was traveling and not home. The lady told me that since I did not purchase the extended warrantee…there was no coverage…what? The refrigerator was 5 weeks old and my other one is in the garage and working fine,

Anyway, I made a few calls and bared my teeth and guess what…someone realized that I should have food loss coverage and it is now completely taken care of. So YES, sometimes you do need to bare your teeth. When you know in your gut that you are correct!

Some folks are weinies and will not do it but I can get things accomplished and will do so, if I have to be mean…haha! I try nice first but it does not always work! Have a super day!

By SAR

October 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Some of you should be thankful a person agrees to attempt to educate your offspring on the salary they’re paid. Never in a hundred years would I waste four years of college to teach the kids of ungrateful parents. What if every child in room decides to be a chatty Cathy, then what? It’s always the fault of the other child, the teacher…the person in car going along side you doen GA 400…b ut never your kids fault. They’re perfect, right? If there were litmus test to have kids, so many on this blog would be childless.

By momof1

October 15, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

First, I’d like to say that most if not all parents understand that there are many jobs out there that pay more than teaching. I appreciate teachers and all that they do for my child. I wouldn’t be where I am today, if not for the variety of teacher that I’ve had.

That being said, however, teachers are human. They are affected by problems at home, family issues, personal issues and any other issue that you or I might have. They are prone to good days and bad days too.

My daughter is in the 9th grade and is a freshman in high school. Last year she had a bully for a teacher. That’s right a bully. She seemed to relish making the kids feel bad, belittling them and making sarcastic remarks. I too ignored this all year, telling my daughter to do the work (she is an all A student and always has been) and just get through the year.

It all came to a head when this woman tried to keep my daughter from going to the 8th grad dance for a textbook that she supposedly did not turn in. Now, she never sent home a note to me about the book or even giving us the option to pay for it. Why wasn’t I informed about it when she received the new text book. She took every opportunity to just make my daughter feel as bad as she could. She would bring up the subject of the 8th grade dance in class, and then turn to my child and say, “oh, but you won’t be going, that’s right” in front of all the other children. My daughter didn’t even want to tell me all of this was going on.

Well, let me tell you it was 2 weeks before the end of school and I had enough, I wrote the principal, requesting a meeting. I went to the school and laid out my complaint, even telling him how this particular teacher had been all year, but I had never said anything. She was such a bully and I very strongly let the principal know! Well, come to find out, many had complained about this particular math teacher. She did not get her contract renewed, and I am glad.

If someone doesn’t like children, they should not be in the classroom. This lady needed a new career choice, and whatever I did to help that happen, so be it.

By momof1

October 15, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Just to clarify regarding the textbook, the problem was that my daughter says she turned it in and the teacher said she didn’t. The old textbooks were collected and new ones handed out to everyone. My daughter got her new textbook and nothing was ever said or sent home.

By jacksmum

October 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Those of you who are not outraged by a teacher who uses humiliation as a punishment for a 6 year old are crazy. If he were 16, then this would be a more appropriate punishment. Yes, parents can over react and baby their kids well into adulthood, but a parent is the child’s advocate and as a parent you have a duty to support appropriate punishment and education of your children.

And for the poster who doesn’t think this will carry with the child who was humiliated…I vividly remember being singled out for talking in the 1st grade. I was made to stand in front of the class. Not only was this seriously humiliating, but to this day, I can tell you the name of the boy who was actually doing the talking. It stuck with me for 34 years so far.

By FCM

October 15, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Hey guys….Fulton Mom is not the same person as me….just so the ‘regulars’ know.

Fulton Mom—-FCM is actually shortened from my original tag of Fulton County Mom…that is why I wanted to let the folks know.

As to this topic…well in general I find public school teachers to be either really great and open….Or narrow minded folks who want sheep. This year my kids have one of each. I disagree more with WHAT they are discipling FOR than how they do it…However, the whole public school system needs an overhaul anyway.

By lucy

October 15, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I’m an eighth grade student, and being singled out at my age is fine. One of my teachers puts a box over very disruptive kid’s heads, and everyone laughs, and then the kid shuts up. Or keeps talking if he’s the class clown. But being singled out has no lasting damage with us and is actually funny.

By Bob

October 16, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Geez people….she made him sit in front of the class on a stool….reason #34,568 why kids today are in for the shock of their lives when they enter “adulthood”.

By Melissa

October 21, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

I am a teacher and I would never see the point in this kind of discipline. What about removing the child’s desk teaches him anything about being chatty?