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DEL.ICIO.USCan caring for kids/home really be 50/50?
In studies, lesbian couples come closer to truly sharing family duties than most heterosexual couples. How well do you share the duties?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The New York Times Magazine posted a fantastic story examining the concept of “equally shared parenting” — where couples try to share 50/50 all housework and care of the children.
There is not a master and apprentice (as in moms is great at fixing hair and matching outfits, and Dad needs to follow her directions). In theory, Dad knows just as much about what is going on in the house as Mom and can change a diaper and clean out the refrigerator as efficiently. (The story is long but stick with it — loads of interesting material.)
The author gives great examples of how families are actually trying to make this lifestyle a reality, but also offers amazing statistics on how work is shared in most households. For example:
“Social scientists know in remarkable detail what goes on in the average American home. And they have calculated with great precision how little has changed in the roles of men and women. Any way you measure it, they say, women do about twice as much around the house as men.”
“The most recent figures from the University of Wisconsin’s National Survey of Families and Households show that the average wife does 31 hours of housework a week while the average husband does 14 — a ratio of slightly more than two to one. If you break out couples in which wives stay home and husbands are the sole earners, the number of hours goes up for women, to 38 hours of housework a week, and down a bit for men, to 12, a ratio of more than three to one. That makes sense, because the couple have defined home as one partner’s work.”
“But then break out the couples in which both husband and wife have full-time paying jobs. There, the wife does 28 hours of housework and the husband, 16. Just shy of two to one, which makes no sense at all.” “Where the housework ratio is two to one, the wife-to-husband ratio for child care in the United States is close to five to one. As with housework, that ratio does not change as much as you would expect when you account for who brings home a paycheck. In a family where Mom stays home and Dad goes to work, she spends 15 hours a week caring for children and he spends 2. In families in which both parents are wage earners, Mom’s average drops to 11 and Dad’s goes up to 3. Lest you think this is at least a significant improvement over our parents and grandparents, not so fast. ‘The most striking part,’ Blair says, ‘is that none of this is all that different, in terms of ratio, from 90 years ago.’ ”
The author goes on to explain that lesbian couples share things much more equally. In fact, 75 percent of those in one study considered themselves to be co-parents as opposed to 25 percent who said the birth-mother was primary parent.
” ‘Heterosexual couples can learn from gay couples about sharing housework and child care.’ says Esther D. Rothblum, a professor in the women’s studies department of San Diego State University whose comparative study of the relationships of 342 couples — lesbian, gay, heterosexual — was published in the journal Developmental Psychology in January. ‘They are good role models.’ ”
“It is not clear, however, why lesbian couples split parenting more equally. ‘Is it because you take gender out of the equation or because women are better at sharing or because parents of the same gender see things more similarly?’ asks Dr. Nanette Gartrell, a psychiatrist with the University of California at San Francisco who has been studying lesbian families for 22 years. ‘We don’t know,’ and won’t know, she says, until there is equivalent data on gay men who become parents.
What do you make of these studies? What do you think of the shared-parenting strategy? What did you think of the couples examined in the story? Would you be willing to ask for a three or four day work schedule to share more equally? Would you be willing to forgo that income?
Do you think couples need to work that hard to track who is doing what (the color-coordinated charts)? Do you think the parenting does become more equal as the children get older?
What do make of the lesbians sharing more equally than heterosexual couples? Is it something inherent to being women?
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By Mike
June 19, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this
All I know is that in our home, I (male) am willing to do 50% of the houseowrk. My wife however has different standards than I, and I find that she is vacuuming a room that I think is clean and does not need it, so she does in fact wind up doing more than 50% of the work, because her standards are different than mine.
By John
June 19, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
Let me be the first to admit that men and women are different. This topic has been the source of much friction in my own household for years, but the simple fact is that my wife is a much stronger person than me and I do my best to try to keep up. Fortunately for me and my kids, my wife cares for us and loves us as much as she does. All of that being said, I have tried to do as much as I can to become better at being a helpmate to my wife in the raising of our family. What the authors don’t delve into are differing strengths and weaknesses in the roles played by married couples. I am inherently better at some things than my my wife is, and she is definitely better than I am at certain things. I particularly enjoyed the part of the article where the husband took the wife’s instructions and tore them up, this is a sure sign of someone who is insecure in his relationship that had something to prove. I will admit that I get preturbed when my wife over controls, but it is a simple thing to respect her and let her have her say. I think the biggest message in equality is that men and women are different, and not equal, thank God. Gender roles are there for a reason, and by no means does that make men superior. Just ask the judge at the divorce hearings, the author tries to gloss over this by saying that more often judges are awarding joint custody, but the truth is that fathers very rarely get full custody even when the mother is unfit. At divorce, all the courts want from the father is a monthly check, not a father.
By Garbage
June 19, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
This study is crap. There are to many circumstances for this to mean anything. Job type, housework type, type of job. Then to say learn from a gay couple, excuse me??? WTF Bascially this is saying thier should be no gender difference between men and women? The wife can cut the grass, and Daddy can fold the clothes, are you freaking serious???? Thats why we have so many issues today with our youth, these liberal professors and so called Physcologists spewing thier garbage onto us.
By HAHAHAAHA
June 19, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
Another liberal professor spewing her garbage on the public. Men and women play different roles in the marriage. That’s why God created Adam and Eve. My wife has strengths and weakness and so do I but we fit together well. She may do more hours of house work, but I do more physical things around the house. Thats what is wrong in today’s society, men can’t be men and women need to be men. Lets all be gay then the world would be perfect.
By TJW
June 19, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
I’m curious if the study factors in house maintiance tasks as well as cleaning as ‘housework’. While I don’t clean quite as much as my wife, I do handle all of the grass cutting, car maintiance, house repairs, and such, as well as a share of cooking, baby feeding, changing, bathing, etc. Currently, my wife does handle the baby more, but thats mainly because the baby prefers mommy right now, not because I don’t want to help.
Really, the numbers listed mean nothing without knowing what they define as ‘housework’ as there is far more to maintaining a home then washing dishes and vacuuming
By 100%
June 19, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
Sometimes (but not often) I wish I had a partner (lesbian, gay, straight, or otherwise) to help me (a widowed dad) raise my child and keep up with all the housework, but you know what? Somehow it all gets done, with time left over. It’s really not that hard and now that my little one is 4, we do all these things together and she gets a blast out of it. We have more fun putting things away, building shelves, going to the store, cooking, cleaning, and gardening than we ever could have sitting in front of the TV watching some mindless crap.
By Kathy
June 19, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Very good article…thanks for sharing it Theresa! In our house, my husband does all the work outside and I do all the work inside. And by outside, I mean he works at his job and does all the yard work (we have a fairly large yard so it is a big job). Is it equal? Of course not, (my responsibilities end up being more than his) but it works for us. I like being the one who takes care of all the housework, shopping, appointment-making, taking care of our daughter, etc. I am a bit of a control freak in that way. I enjoy taking care of my daughter and my husband this way. It may seem a bit 1950s to have a clean house and dinner on the table for my husband but it makes me happy to do it and he appreciates all of my hard work. Now, occasionally I wish he would empty the dishwasher (the thing I hate the most). He does take care of all of our finances (HE is the control freak there) and deals with repairs, etc., but he enjoys that stuff….he is way better at that than I am. As far as our daughter is concerned, I do most everything (I spend the most time with her) but she is Daddy’s girl so when he comes home, he spends the majority of his time with her. I do know that if I need his help with any of the housework, he is ready to jump in. I am planning on going back to work when she starts school (in my pre-SAHM life I taught Kindergarten). When that time comes, I am sure we will have to re-work the whole system and start sharing the household responsibilities. We try to take one day at a time right now and just do the best we can for each other. Isn’t that what we all do?
By Jeff
June 19, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
During the school year, I do the laundry and T does the dishes and cooks. (Her mom does most of the heavy cleaning, though we DO try to keep it generally clean, and we split that equally by picking up after ourselves.) I get stuck cutting the grass. (The single household task I have ALWAYS loathed. Even worse in the summer in South GA!!!)
During the summer, T has taken over laundry, but I still get stuck with cutting the grass and her mom still does the heavy cleaning.
Of course, ANY time something heavy needs to get moved or something needs to be placed in a high spot, I get the order. I also do any assembly that needs to get done.
So I’m with TJW on this one. If you’re JUST talking about generic cleaning/cooking/laundry, YES, T does more work. If you’re talking about EVERYTHING, it is roughly equal. (For example, we wouldn’t have a kitchen table/chairs if I hadn’t loaded the boxes into the car at the store, brought them inside at the house, and put them together. Same with our matching office desks and the bookshelves. Heck, my books were in boxes until roughly 7 months into our marraige, 8 months after we were living together!)
By catlady
June 19, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
My ex considered changing the oil in the car to be his 50% of the housework/childcare. And it didn’t get done every 3000 miles, either. Truly, I can remember him washing dishes 5 times in 14 years. Now he was very good at complaining about things….I worked full time, starting back when our kids were 3 weeks old (that was brutal). He worked 5-8 hours a day and then went to “practice music” 3 nights a week (never made any money doing it). He would sit on the porch while I worked in the garden growing our food and he would say he was “tired.”
I have seen 2 couples where the housework/childcare is much more equally shared. Fortunately, my daughter’s marriage is one of them. She saw what I went through and made it clear that she wanted a mutually participatory marriage. Her husband is a jewel, and so is she!
By Jesse's Girl
June 19, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Whats the matter Garbage? Afraid of folding a little sweater? Serioulsy…there really doesn’t need to be so much p** and vinegar regarding this issue. of course men and women are different….of course we all have differing strengths and weaknesses. The truth is we all divide our home chores according to our personal preferences and needs. Hopefully you are fortunate enough to marry someone who helps out more or less when the need arises.
By FCM
June 19, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
OK I realize that as a single parent (of several years) that 50/50 just isn’t going to be. Add in the other things I have mentioned of the 2 years I have been on the blog…yes it has been 2 years…well I get 99-100% of the parenting and 100% of the house. My idea of being rich has always been to afford to have someone else do the cleaning!
Anyway here is my 2 cents so get your grain of salt:
What does it matter who does the most discipline, the most cooking dinner, the most schelping to events, the most errands etc? The best thing you can give a child is loving parents, who are there for them.
If it works for your family then it is the right division of work. Stop buying into the feminist argument that all things (housework) have to be equally shared for it to be a happy home.
Real feminist: Doesn’t set out to make herself equal to a man…Sets out to be herself and the best she can be.
By FCM
June 19, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
@Kathy….I hate unloading the dishwasher too….Since my children were about 3 I have had them help unload it. Bot the sharp objects or anything…just the plastic plates and cups to start. Then they moved to sorting silverware (again not the sharp stuff)….Now my youngest (6) is told…dishwasher needs emptying (once I take out the knives) and goes to it. My eldest (9) has graduated to loading the washer (again minus the knives). The youngest began learning the dishwashing this week…so we will be rotating the two.
Hang in there and soon your daughter can do that hated chore.
By motherjanegoose
June 19, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Wow…I did my best to read that article and skimmed a few parts.
I loved the “level of alertness to mess…”. That would apply around here.
Reality is that each person brings certain things into the union. I did NOT know how to drive a standard transmission car but that is what my husband had and we only had one car ( imagine it…yes, those were the days). Did I ask him to chauffeur ( sp?) me around? No, I grit my teeth, stalled, cried, rolled through stop signs and eventually figured it out!
I also knew NOTHING about lawn mowers but managed to acquire that job ( as a teacher off for the summer). I since have forgotten how to do it…LOL.
We had no $$$ when we had our son and day care was OUT of the question. So, we swapped schedules and worked the childcare out. My husband was ( and still is) a wonderful father. He is close to both of our children and they spend one on one time with him….especially when I am gone for business. He had to learn things and I had to LET GO. There were times when I called at 8:30 p.m. and asked if they had dinner…NO. “Let me speak to Daddy…” He told me that he was not hungry…HELLO…the kids might be? In defense, I may not recognize things that he would know from his own experiences and that seem obvious to him.
He absolutely does not do things the way I would do them but I have hopped off of the throne and realized that he can get things done if necessary.
Question…are there any other almost 50 year olds out there who are frankly sick of doing laundry, cooking interesting dinners and picking up around the house each day? I am spoiled since I travel for business and keep my hotel room tidy and can order room service.
After 25 years, housework has no mental appeal or sense of accomplishment for me…BUT I am now off to clean our house!
By JJ
June 19, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
Yup, I’m in the same boat as FCM. I am a single parent, and do probably about 90% of the work around the house.
My daughther is EXTREMELY lazy and 90% of the household mess is hers, and I have given up picking up after her. She has the “Walk and drop” mentality. I have ridden her butt about this for YEARS!!!! She just doesn’t get it.
I can’t wait for her to get out on her own, and get a roommate who is a neat freak.
Last night, however, my daughter did clean the downstairs. We have one huge room down there with a big screen tv, the computer, and couches. It’s the “flop room”, aka, the den. She was complaining about how bad it looked down there (I hardly go down there), so I told her it was her mess and she needs to be responsible for it. It took her 2 hours to clean down there, and then she wanted me to come down and praise her for her good work. I don’t think so, welcome to my hell…
Now about the 50/50 division of work. In my opinion, whatever works for each household is what matters. It doesn’t matter who does what, as long as it all gets done.
My ex was rather lazy too. I was 5 months pregnant out mowing the lawn, because he was tired and his back hurt. Blah. I did everything around the house, even outside the house, while we were married. He thought just the fact that he has a full time job and brought home a paycheck that was all he had to do.
By Jeff
June 19, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
BTW:
Guess what the number one chore this dad will pass off to his kids as soon as they are old enough is?
Speaking of: Question: What is the appropiate time to pass on the chore of mowing the lawn?
T says 12-13. I say as soon as they are tall enough to hold the mower at chest/waist high. (No riding mowers for us, yard isn’t big enough and has too many trees!) I remember it was passed on to me around 8 or 10 years old, which seems right based on the criteria I just mentioned.
By LAQUANDRA
June 19, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
I DON’T NEED NO SORRY BABY DADDY TO HELP ME RAIZE MY KIDS LIKE THEM WHITE PEOPLE DO. MEN ARE JUST SORRY AND WORTHLESS. I AM GONN RAIZE MY KIDS MY WAY!
By Jesse's Girl
June 19, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
I don’t have time to read the whole thing ladies….what does “level of alertness to mess” mean?
By FCM
June 19, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
JJ My children are in their rooms picking up specific items (not actually cleaning) so that they can go see Narnia today. From what you said I am fighting a losing battle. Sigh.
I do insist that their toys stay back in their rooms….After 8 years of living with toys in the living/dining area it was the first rule I set in the new house “No toys in the common area”. They try sometimes, but I make them remove the items ASAP…
100% for different reasons JJ and I are in the single parent boat with you. I feel your single parenting pain. Your a good Daddy and your daughter will always remember how hard you tried. It will get easier from now until she is about 8 and becomes a twit er I mean tween. My 9 was in getting her outfit together for the movie.
By Mike K.
June 19, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
when I was a kid my mom was a SAHM and did all the work inside the house. My dad would do the outdoor stuff, anything dealing with the car, and inside home improvement stuff. I’d say that while my mom did more hours of work, I think dad’s work was more “heavy lifting.”
My wife and I have it split pretty evenly I think. We both work and the HOA we have contracts a landscaper so we don’t have to worry about the yard. So we focus on cleaning inside, we neither of us like to do anyway.
By FCM
June 19, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
JG Level of Alert is the threshold where you notice the mess…his may be higher or lower than yours.
MJG My parents have been married for 40+ years. My mom still complains that despite her FT job outside the home, she has to come home to clean. Dad will run a vac (unless he thinks he can make me or my brother do it)…He does make breakfast or dinner…but he does not do the dishes. Mom said she counts it as a bonus when he gets his plate to the sink.
By motherjanegoose
June 19, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Jesse’s Girl…
I think it means, Oh wow…we ( men) did not realize that the carpet has not been vaccumed in a week, there is toothpaste spit all over the sink, we cleared the table but did not know you had to wipe the ketchup up off of the placemats too? It could mean…why are all the toilet paper and paper towel rolls empty and who magically replaces that…OR should we throw in a load of laundry since no one has clean underwear? LOL
JJ…my son was not neat around here but he is the orgnaizer of his apartment at college! There is hope.
By Mike K.
June 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
All I know is that in our home, I (male) am willing to do 50% of the houseowrk. My wife however has different standards than I, and I find that she is vacuuming a room that I think is clean and does not need it, so she does in fact wind up doing more than 50% of the work, because her standards are different than mine.
They address this in the article: “She has a similar response to those who say that they would love to share equally but that one parent — almost always the wife — has parenting or housekeeping standards that the other cannot (or will not) meet. Dad dresses the children wrong and diapers them wrong and sends inadequate thank-you notes and leaves the house a mess. This may look like a cranky power struggle, Deutsch says, but the dynamic, which sociologists call “gatekeeping,” also reflects social pressures.
Women, she says, know that the world is watching and judging. If the toddler’s clothes don’t match, if the thank-you notes don’t get written, if the house is a shambles, it is seen as her fault, making her overly invested in the outcome. Many women will also admit to the frisson of superiority, of a particular form of gratification, when they are the more competent parent, the one who can better soothe the tears in the middle of the night.”
By WHAT??
June 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Jesses Girl, If you took time to read what I wrote you might understand. The article is garbage. I believe that women and men can do things better. I will always help, but I think it is ok that mommy cooks dinner and daddy fixes things around the house. There are exceptions to every rule, but thats why males have testostorone and females estrogen. So Jesses girl, do you open the door for your husband, buy him flowers, rub his feet? I think I made my point.
By GeoffDawg
June 19, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Mike hit the nail on the head in the first post - it’s not about men not wanting to share in the workload - it’s about a difference in opinion on what constitutes cleanliness. If she wants to clean the same spot three times just to be satisfied, that’s fine, just don’t expect men to capitulate and adhere to that same level of obsessive behavior. Also, why aren’t we also including yard work, car care, etc, in on this formula?
By Men and Women
June 19, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Men and Women are different. Thats why there is a man and a woman, not just one gender on earth. God made it this way because he knows that the needs of a man and a women compliment them. We need to stop trying to be self centered and realize we are put here for a reason, and just because I do 51% of the work doesnt mean I need to start a revolt against gender roles. Get the freak over it.
By SD
June 19, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I grew up in a house where, right or wrong, chores were divided by your sexuality. Boys did the yard work, fixed things and girls did the cleaning and ‘female’ things around the house. Do I agree with this? No, of course not. With this said I think some chores around the house will naturally fall into the distribution category determined by sex. Men will feel it’s their place to do the handywork around the house and women, more often than not, assume the more feminine roll of housekeeper, cook and nurse. I can see where in a same sex couple situation these roles are not as segregated as they’d be in opposite sex couple. Ironcially, my brothers are better housekeepers and demand a cleaner house than the women they married. Many times I have observed them doing things around their homes our father would have never attempted to do in a million years.
By Liz
June 19, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
I am divorced now and the mother of two boys who think all yard work, house work and car maintenance is ‘womens work’… somehow reinforced by the fact that I also was the only parent to be involved in scouts with them. I fear my potential daugher-in-laws… When I was married my husband didn’t do a lot and had a lot of excuses - only I did discover that he was just trying to keep me busy so he could go off and spend money (including my paycheck) on his friends. Pay attention to what’s going on!
By anon
June 19, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
I don’t think it is necessarily all about gender when it comes to ‘level of alertness.’
My partner and son both are clean but not neat. I am place person (everything has it’s place) and can’t stand clutter.
Guess who does the lioness share of cleaning?
By motherjanegoose
June 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
I do not rub my husband’s feet nor he mine but I did buy him a massage gift certificate….does that count?
By Jesse's Girl
June 19, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Absolutely I rub his feet…and if he gave a hoot about flowers, I’d get those too. But I think season ticks to UGA home games covers it all!
My point….you made it sound as if you thought it appalling for women to cut grass and men to fold clothes. Perhaps I misinterpreted…..then again, you could make more cohesive points. And lets please…and this goes for everyone…have enough class to not gay bash. There is something to be learned from everyone…
By Lauren
June 19, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
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By jen
June 19, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
I’m the type of person that refuses to wear myself out over little details with cleaning. If I’ve had a long day, or tired, or just don’t feel like wiping off the counters, I won’t do it, and I’m the wife. Life is more important than a few crumbs on the table or a few clothes on the floor. Now when a room gets overly messy then I clean, and enlist my kid’s help. My husband rarely picks up around the house, but he works and that’s fine with me, I don’t have to get up at 5:30 every day like he does. I consider my top priority taking care of children rather than making sure every toy is picked up. It works for us, and I don’t believe what this liberal professor from gay-pushing San Diego says. Sorry-kids grow up best with a mommy and daddy. American Academy of Pediatrics says that also. Everyone knows San Diego is full of gay activists and this professor is just pushing the agenda-again.
By Denkpaard
June 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
We both work full-time. I do most inside work but he does most outside work. We split childcare evenly. I cook but he won’t eat my food so that’s neutral. He eats ice cream or takeout.
By Jesse's Girl
June 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Well folks….I can predict where this one is heading. I respectfully recuse myself from this debate. Perhaps I expect too much….
By Becky
June 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
I work a full time job & am expected to do all of the household chores..I’m not the one in the house that wants it to look like a magazine either..We have a HOA that does the ouside work, so we alaways have issues with this…I am responsible for all the maintaince on my car also..
By JJ
June 19, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
I didn’t get the “neat freak” gene (but my brother sure did), so it really isn’t a big issue with me. My house is clean (the bathrooms, the kitchen, the floors, etc) not messy, just some things need to be put away, and my daughter doesn’t know how to do that, even with me telling her for the past 15 years.
But it’s not that big of a deal. If anyone comes over, the house is clean enough for company. There may be two or three pairs of shoes in the entry, but you can step over them. I may have not made my bed before I left for work, but I’ll do it when I get home. I don’t have alot of time in the a.m. for housework, so I do it when I get home, and I’m watching Ellen on tv.
The dinner dishes get cleaned as soon as we are finished with dinner or any other meal. The one thing I cannot stand is a messy kitchen.
If it’s dirty, clean it.
If it’s clean, put it away.
Now my co-workers on the other hand, are major slobs. Some eat here in the office, and leave their dirty dishes in the sink for someone else to clean. The tray to our toaster oven, was used by our bookkeeper two weeks ago, and it still sits in the sink. They will leave coffee cups, and the like, in the sink. There is a dishwasher less than 6 inches from the sink, but apparently that’s too far away. Now THAT just drives me crazy, but I refuse to clean up after other adults. It’s not my mess, it’s not my dishes, why should I clean it up?
By Penguinmom
June 19, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
If someone gets married truly thinking everything in the marriage is going to be 50-50, then they are completely clueless about life. No partnership can ever be one-to-one fairness. Everyone has different skills and some of those skills are in higher demand in a partnership than others. Women are generally more interested in nurturing and, guess what!, when you have kids there’s a lot of nurturing that has to happen. Therefore the mom of the family gets more of that workload because of her skill set. (yes, I know men can be nurturing too and I’m not saying there are not exceptions.)
That said, marriage is about commitment not keeping score over who has done what.
I have a friend right now whose husband has been in a coma for nearly two weeks after an accident and brain surgery. So, for this period of time, she has 100% of the responsibilities for everything. (Fortunately with a lot of help from her friends and family.) When her husband eventually wakes up and recovers, do you expect her to say, “okay, your turn, marriage is 50/50 so that means I get to take the next 6 months off.” No, of course not. Why? Because she’s not keeping score. She loves her husband and is willing to do whatever it takes to help him through this time. And he would have been willing to do the same if it had been her in the hospital.
By T. Rogers
June 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
The title of this thread is “The Myth of 50/50 Parenting.” Then it goes on to focus largely on domestic chores. As someone who recently celebrated his first Father’s Day I think there is a lot more to “parenting” than cleaning the house.
There is a lot more to raising children than washing their dirty dishes. Before we dump on men for “not doing their part” maybe we should have a more holistic understanding of what is required for managing a household and raising children.
If the only thing I need to be concerned about is cleaning the bathtub and mopping the kitchen floor this fatherhood thing is going be a lot easier than I thought!
By Mel
June 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
50/50 marriage is and should be a myth. Each person must give 100% AT ALL TIMES, or it simply won’t work! When you try to do 50/50, then someone starts doing 51% and they get upset at the other… If each person puts 100% into the family & the marriage relationship, then it is possibly do-able. Still not always easy, but more do-able. We’ve been working on this for 21+ years of marriage…not perfect yet and probably never will be…but as we are raising 4 happy, healthy children it is certainly worth the journey!
By SB
June 19, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
In my house, we do share the responsibilities for the household. However, it’s not always 50/50, but if he sees that dinner needs to be cooked and he gets home first, he cooks dinner. And vice versa. If I see that clothes need to be washed then I wash. We are a team. And sometimes we even tag team—I’ll start dinner, he’ll finish it, etc… I read that ny times article the day before yesterday and listened to a discussion about the issue on XM radio station 155 and I think that 50/50 might work for some, but not all and does not necessarily represent the ideal for everyone. If partners in a relationship are happy with whatever balance of work/family they’ve created, it’s not up to anyone to say it’s right, wrong or otherwise. I am happy that my husband and I are a team and truly are partners in our life. And our partnership works for us.
By A. Nony Mouse.
June 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
I think the original study/article was a bit one-sided. Perhaps not for the first time on the thread I ask, what about those of us who have no partner? 100% for instance. He is giving more than 100% at any given time.
I am a single parent and I have come to love my lifestyle. I don’t have anyone to answer to but, still a bit of help would be great! Any of you who still have a two parent family should count your blessings. It is not about the division of labor it is about every one giving ALL, not just 50%.
Just for the record it is so much easier to be a single Mom than to have a non-participating, dead weight hanging about making more work.
By JJ
June 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
SB I believe you hit the nail on the head!!!!!
A.Nony I agree. See mine and FCM’s posts….we are single parents too. I agree a bit of help would be nice, but I don’t have to answer to anyone!!!!
By Vicki
June 19, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
You have got to be kidding, Jeff. Your mother-in-law does the heavy cleaning of your house!!!
Clean your own house!
By FCM
June 19, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
JJ—I’m with you. If the munchkins will keep their toys out of the common area, and a path in their rooms so I don’t break my neck…I am happy. The oldest is doing better about picking up her stuff in her room.
I came in to find them watching tv in the common room and rolling the yarn I am working into a blanket all over the floor…so they spent several minutes rolling it back in the nice neat ball and putting it back to where I had it.
I am not a stickler about the bed…My oldest likes it like Grandma does it…so she makes it everyday…My brother and I always figured we were getting back in it in 8-12 hours why bother…His fiancee says he still doesn’t make his…I make mine 2 times a week when I change the sheets. My youngest doesn’t want to be bothered so sleeps on top of the made bed with a blanket during the summer…fine with me, it’s hot in the house (A/C is set at 80).
The bathrooms are clean, as are the common rooms. My room is still in a jumble from the move…However since I did 95% of that unpacking (the kids unpacked the toys) I am ok with it…It actually is starting to feel like home…if they just get the pool fixed….It’s my last week off and they drained the pool.
Theresa—how about a column on dealing with the twit crushes…I mean teen crushes….Zack Efron, Joe Jonas, and now Prince Caspin are being spoken to on the princess cell phone…apparently all are interested in my eldest and making plans to go with her to the Hannah Montana concert….I think Caspin might be joining us for church too…I mean she is 9 if she is doing this now what do I expect when she is 11??? JG when you get back I know your oldest 2 must have gone through (going through?) this….and Theresa if Rose isn’t there yet she will be.
By Jesse's Girl
June 20, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Oh honey….I just let them have their celebrity crushes. I too lead a rich fantasy life! Heck…I still hold onto the hope that Shawn Cassidy will wisk me away! To say nothing of Taye Diggs…that is one fine man! I find it leads to a very easy and fun way to relate to my girls. I have a vocal student who is a dead ringer for Kevin Jonas! He is a cutie-patootie! The girls freak out whenever we have a session…wanting to tag along and such. I think its fun to pick up on their crush-cues….in a lot of ways, it has made us closer!
By FCM
June 20, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
JG—I don’t mind the crush…where would I be with out Matt McCahughney, Christopher Noth, or Patrick Dempsey? I am just don’t recall my crushes on Donny Osmond to involve ‘dates’…I hear that Camp Rock will be on 4 times this weekend…I said I would watch it tonight with her (and the Wizards of Waverly special after) but I may have to retreat to my room for sanity reasons if she insists on watching it again.
By Jesse's Girl
June 20, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
We are having a Camp Rock party tonight! 8 girls in front of Mr Jesse’s obnoxiously large TV. He joked that now his “baby” will have cooties and will need to be disinfected with massive amounts of sports this weekend. Yes…it can be a bit much. But I remember so well being sure I would grow up to be Debbie Gibson or Tiffany…..and worshiping at my NKOTB alter!!! (yes, i have tickets to the reunion concert) Though I would always kiss my Shawn Cassidy poster goodnight. I still have it!!
By Josh
June 20, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Kathy, John, TJW, Garbage, and HAHAHAAHA: It always helps to read the entire article before commenting. First, ‘Housework’ does include yard work and fixing a leaky faucet and getting oil changes - typical “man jobs”.
Second, the point the article makes is that each couple should do what works best for them. The article points out that the unequal distribution of home responsibility is a cause of strife in many families, that many women resent an undue burden. That said, one of the couples highlighted wound up with the woman staying home to be the primary caregiver to the couple’s children. This after they tried an equal distribution with both parents working. The point is that they actually talked about who was responsible for what and came to a decision together, like adults.
By FCM
June 20, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
My eldest came to be just crying her eyes out….Daddy has a new g/f and child has decided that Daddy spends too much time with g/f. She further decided that said g/f is reason Daddy doesn’t do much with children….None of this is true, Daddy didn’t pay attention to them before the g/f. Exposure to Daddy is limited and seldom (his choice on the frequency). Any ideas on how to help her? She broke my heart sobbing about the SOB.
By Stella
June 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think what worries me is that the children referred to in gay and/or lesbian relsationships are sometimes donor-conceived. And twenty years after the donation of egg and sperm went mainstream the donateds are speaking out.
Their websites are called Tangeld Webs and DonorMisconception. T
By Stella
June 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think what worries me is that the children referred to in gay and/or lesbian relsationships are sometimes donor-conceived. And twenty years after the donation of egg and sperm went mainstream the donateds are speaking out.
Their websites are called Tangeld Webs and DonorMisconception.
By Stella
June 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think what worries me is that the children referred to in gay and/or lesbian relsationships are sometimes donor-conceived. And twenty years after the donation of egg and sperm went mainstream the donateds are speaking out.
Their websites are called Tangeld Webs and DonorMisconception.
By Stella
June 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think what worries me is that the children referred to in gay and/or lesbian relsationships are sometimes donor-conceived. And twenty years after the donation of egg and sperm went mainstream the donateds are speaking out.
Their websites are called Tangeld Webs and DonorMisconception.
By Stella
June 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think what worries me is that the children referred to in gay and/or lesbian relsationships are sometimes donor-conceived. And twenty years after the donation of egg and sperm went mainstream the donateds are speaking out.
Their websites are called Tangeld Webs and DonorMisconception.
By Kathy
June 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
@Josh……
1…I DID read the entire article 2…what I did not say (and probably should have) is that before we made the decision for me to stay home, my husband and I DID talk about who would do what, what each of our responsibilities would be and how we would parent our child. Our lives were about to change drastically and we had many conversations (LIKE ADULTS) about how our lives would change once the baby arrived.Don’t assume things about people…..we all know what happens when you ASSume.
@jen…..a child deserves two PEOPLE that love him/her! My brother is a gay man in a committed relationship. If he and his partner decide to adopt, any child would be lucky to have two people that would unconditionally love and care for him/her. That is more than I can say for the “mommies and daddies” that end up on the news for beating/abusing/abandoning/killing their children.
By JJ
June 20, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Alright JessiesGirl & FCM - I’m gonna one up you two…..
I had DAVID Cassidy (Sean’s OLDER brother), Donny Osmond and Bobby Sherman all on my walls. Drove my Dad freaking crazy. You couldn’t see the paint on the walls. One wall of David, one wall of Bobby, one wall of Donny. I drooled over “Tiger Beat” Magazine posters.
And on top of all that, I took my step Daughter to NKOB when they were popular the first time.
Oh, those were the days.
Sidebar to the regulars - I had the thyroid scan today, and there’s only one parathyroid gland that’s bad and needs to be removed. Surgery should be scheduled for one day next week and I’ll be in the hospital overnight. I’ll keep ya posted.
Have a great weekend all!!!
By FCM
June 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
JJ—Yes please keep us posted.
I had Donny, Sean, Parker Stevens, and Leif Garrett (who looks like a truck backed over him twice these days). Must have played Leif and Sean so often on my phonograph that my Mom wanted to break them!
My ex once told me Susan Day and Maureen McCormick were on his wall.
By catlady
June 20, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Because she’s not keeping score.
Of course not. But after he is fully recovered if he wants to lay around and have her take care of everything, I can assure you she WILL start to keep score. My former husband accused me of keeping score, and my reply was, “I understand why you are against that, since the score is 98-2 in my favor!”
I was 8 month’s pregnant (with full time work and 2 other kids), at one point, and mowing and tilling and pushing the wheelbarrow with the vegetables I had picked so I could can them and he was sitting on the porch with his feet up. NEVER AGAIN!
I don’t think it has to be 50-50, but if it is 60-40 this week it should be 40-60 next week. Mutual involvement is the key.
By Jesse's Girl
June 20, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Oh JJ….I will keep praying darlin…whether you want it or not:)
FCM…toughie. How old is your girl? If she’s old enough to understand the more vanilla aspects of the situation…clue her in. Let her know that dad has the right to see her whenever he wants to. Just tell her there are some people that were born to be a part of a true family…and there are those that were not. Maybe her dad is the loner type. We know he’s a selfish bug….but she doesn’t need that level of detail. Just be sure to reinforce that just because he needs to be more seperated doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her. She is going to find anyone she can to project her daddy-issues onto. Too bad for the GF. But your baby girl can’t risk pushing him away any further than he’s already chosen to be.
By FCM
June 20, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
JG—thanks… She is 9. I don’t go into detail about him. He calls when he calls and writes when he writes. I save the correspondence and the call logs, etc…especially from the early years, so that one day when she is old enough for details, she can see them. They are locked away in storage where she cannot get to them. A few years ago that he just up and disappeared on us, no address, phone number, no anything. I have worked hard for 4 years to provide them with an safe and stable home. It’s been tough, because she won’t talk to him—you pegged it she thinks she will alienate him if she says anything less than happy, happy to him. The GF is part of the reason my ex left, but I am not going to be the one to clue the kids into that one, at least not yet. Except last night, when she just broke down. The youngest has different issues. Looks to big sis to see how they should feel about Dad. As far as we can tell there is no real past memory for the youngest regarding Dad…can recall the two recent times Dad came to see them.
By Mom in Atlanta
June 23, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
I am a working mom bringing in half the family income. Why am I a radical feminist for expecting my husband to help equally around the house (both in and out.) Traditionally men bring home the family income and women manage the home. If one side of the equation changes so must the other side. While exact 50/50 is impossible we all know that when a woman works (as I am required to) she shoulders a significantly larger load in total by retaining the majority of the household chores and working full time. Yes men/women are different, yes some women have high standards but there are some major inequalities that need to be addressed. And so many unhappy families where men think that work stops at 6PM when they get home from work.
By Working Mom/Stay at Home Dad
June 23, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
My husband is the stay at home parent and I work all day, and travel about once a month. Our understanding is that his job is to take care of the house and our daughters while I am at work earning salary and benefits.
I must say, he does an extremely good job, because - coming from the corporate world - he treats it like a job.
I absolutely agree that being a stay at home parent is a full time job, but before you start griping about not getting enough help with housework, check your productivity level during the day. Are you exercizing at the gym? Are you socializing with friends or family? Volunteering for things that take too much of your time?
If you are doing any of those things, the parent who works outside the home has good reason to resist picking up your slack. Those are all luxuries - and not really part of your core job.
Weekends, early mornings and evenings should be family time, with both parents sharing work, play and child rearing.