MOMania

By Ebaby

June 4, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

I think we have all carpooled as children. Maybe this is one of those things that you have to cut the apron strings. Its not like you are leaving your child with a 20 year old college boy. You are leaving her with another parent who will have their own child in the car too.

As far as booster seats, what are GA laws for this? Where I live, a child is required to have one until age 10 or a certain weight. A booster seat would be a must.

By Jeff in Roswell

June 4, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Another Dad and I are doing the carpooling thing for summer camp this year. I’m taking the boys in the morning and he’s picking them up in the afternoon. I really don’t have any problem with it. We are both responsible adults with our own child in the car with us. - How about the kids riding a multi-ton bus with a complete stranger driving them around?

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

With close family/friends (re: the ones our kid would be around all the time anyway), I don’t see it as a big deal.

With not-so-close family and friends (re: the ones we see a few times a year, at best), it wouldn’t be a big deal in an emergency. (Would rather Aunt Bertha drive the kid to the hospital than him not get there if he needed to be there!)

Outside of that, such as friends of friends - ummmmm…. HADES NO my kid aint getting in your car without me!

But 99% of what my kid would typically encounter is going to be in that first case….

By First Time Mom

June 4, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

I have driven many children around…even as early as 17 years old. They were all kids that I regularly babysat or my miece and nephew. On the other hand when I had my son I wouldn’t let anyone else drive him around for about 4 months. Then I realized…my mom and sister love him and wouldn’t let anything happen to him… When he reaches school age I am sure we will be part of a carpool and I will be ok with that. Like a previous post they will have their children in the car too. Sleeping over night is another thing, though. It will be VERY hard for me to let my kids sleep any place other than home or my family. Even hubby’s family. I just don’t trust them…I don’t let them babysit either.

By Jesse's Girl

June 4, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

I love ya Theresa…but I have to agree with Ebaby on this one. Cut the cord and let her ride with her friends now and again. This is your fear; your neurosis. Don’t let this become their issue too. I am a ninny by nature…I fret a lot. But I do this largely in private because I don’t want my kids influenced negatively by my fears. I have “trained” the girls…still working on the theory with The Boy…to call home when they land. Its good practice for when they enter high school. Our kids need to learn thoughtful consideration but they also need to learn confidence. At Rose’s age, this is a good way to start. Riding with her buddies will help foster that confidence. Thats nothin’ but good Theresa! Trust me, if you’re social with folks with a proclivity towards litigation…they will find a way! And according to my brother the deputy…a Ga kid needs to be in a booster until around 80 lbs….depending on height.

By JJ

June 4, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I never had a problem with my friends driving my kid around, or them with me driving their kids.

What I have a problem with now, is making sure my 17 year old does not have anyone in the car with her. The law says they cannot have more than one other person in the vehicle with them, and it has to be a family member, for the first 6 months of their license. I have to constantly reinforce this when she takes my car.

Now, she is babysitting for some friends of my for the summer. I had to tell them that she is unable to have their kid in the car with her. God forbid something would happen, and I could be sued and lose everything I have.

By Joyce

June 4, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

I don’t have an issue either, as I too, would have my own child along as well. As for the safety seats, I often ask the other parent for theirs to put in my car, since we don’t have extras.

By Thor

June 4, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

We don’t have a problem letting others drive our child, nor do we have a problem with sleep overs either. We’re not neurotic parents who are “afraid”. Unreasonable fears displayed by today’s parents get passed on to the kids. We are nurturing a future generation to become nuts, wacko, paranoid and distrustful.

Its called faith and realizing that as a parent one will never have 100% control.

By Jennifer

June 4, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

We have a group of moms at our preschool that we carpool with frequently. So much so that our cars are equipped with extra booster seats. I only have two young children but we already have some schedule conflicts so splitting the carpool duty is sometimes necessary.

By JJ

June 4, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Firsttime Mom You should let you in-laws sit with the baby for an hour or two. Remember, it is their grandbaby too, and they raised your hubby, so they can’t be that bad. Just remember, they are the grandparents too.

I don’t know why Mom’s don’t trust their in-laws????? You married the son they raised…….

By Thor

June 4, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

We also let our child ride the school bus - alone. No car pooling when a bus comes every day.

By nurse&mother

June 4, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Firsttimemom-Is there any reason why you won’t let your in-laws baby sit? I was very territorial when my first was a baby. My in-laws didn’t do things exactly like I did and I had a hard time over coming that. As she got older I realized that there are more than one way to skin a cat. I still have a few hard and fast rules, but I try not to get too picky. When baby number two came along 8.5 years later I was much more relaxed. I think that the in-laws were more flexible as well. So unless they are practicing unsafe parenting methods, lighten up just a little. I have found our relationship much better now than years ago.

Back to topic, my first was allowed to ride with family only until she was about 1st or 2nd grade. I’m not sure if there will be a magical number with my son. I guess I will evaluate when the situation come up.

When driving others’ children I certainly think of potential lawsuits. When I am driving others’ kids, I drive as I would want someone else to drive my child. I haven’t had a situation where I wouldn’t let a child ride with me because I was afraid of lawsuits. Whenever we drove for Girl Scouts we usually encouraged parents to drive their own children (parents usually came along for trips anyway). A few parents who were good friends would carpool.

By new mom

June 4, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Like it or not, we are living in a litigious society. When my husband and I would need to transport teenagers from our church (we were youth workers/volunteers) we would only do so if the parents had filled out and signed a release through the church, releasing anyone acting on behalf of the church from liability. I can’t imagine driving around a car full of kids without that kind of release.

If there were a “mom version” of a release that we could use to transport other people’s kids, that would take some of the pressure off, correct? But then, how would we feel about being asked to sign a release so someone else could drive our child? Hmmmmm deep thoughts

Thor—I’m eagerly awaiting your next post, which will surely start off: “In our day” said in a cranky old-man voice. Gosh, I wish I had a nickel for every ‘When you kids were little, we did (fill in the blank) and you survived’ story we’ve heard since having our baby girl 8 months ago. My parents are getting better about it, but I still occasionally hear about how my mom just held me in her lap in the car when I was a baby, and I survived. What I try to remind them is that while yes, I survived; many other babies/toddlers/children did not, thus the need for society to look at problems, take safety seriously, and move forward.

I don’t think that following current safety standards and expecting others to do so necessarily mean I’m overprotective or neurotic. We will be fine with our daughter riding with our family or very close friends, but only if she is in the proper seat, and they aren’t driving some old scary looking clunker. Our baby is our long-awaited miracle and I will do what I can to protect her life.

Back to the booster seat issue, just how does that work? Does everyone who carpools purchase extra booster seats, or is it BYOB? I can just imagine a 2nd grader lugging around his own booster seat. Seriously, I think I was in either 6th or 7th grade before I weighed more than 80 pounds. But then again, I think that’s probably the age my parents might have started to buckle me in….but hey, I survived….

By Stacey

June 4, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

While I don’t let him ride just any and everybody, my son is allowed to ride with the very few people I leave him in the care of. I haven’t had occasion to have to leave him with a teenage neighbor though, so I will have to cross that bridge when I get to it. He often rode the bus to school and on fieldtrips while in daycare & day camp. I just have faith that the people I entrust to care for him are responsible enough to get him safely to an approved destination.

By Leigh

June 4, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Two important things - protect the kids you drive (buckle/strap/encase)and also protect yourself. High liability and medical payments limits in case of the unthinkable. Also - why do you think that all drivers are as safe as you - or carry enough liability to cover a catastrophe? I would not go around ordering MVR’s on all the pre-school moms, but you have to consider that not everyone has the same driving skills. I know that as an adult I have ridden with other adults driving, and then sworn to high heaven that I’ll never get in the car with them again. So it would pay to use a critical eye on anyone who drives your kids. I used to be an insurance agent - s** happens. Parents obsess over every tiny movement their kid makes, this is one area where you can’t BE too careful.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Theresa, I am with JG on this…I love ya but let Rose (and even Walsh) ride with friends. I have let the kids go with family or close friends of mine. Out of curiosity what do you do on school field trip days? Do you go on all the field trips? I ask because when I went on one I had a couple of kids that were mine to herd. The kids knew me from school but I don’t think I met one of the kids’ Mom. Obviously, when I cannot attend my children are in the herd of another parent.

I do think you should know whom they are riding with though. I don’t think anyone is advocating letting the kids get in a car with virtual strangers just because the kids know each other. (Nor do I think you are going too).

I do not ask about driving records or otherwise interrogate the parent. I just get to know them. My child is still in a booster so I offer it if they drive. I ask if their child needs one if they ride with me.

Booster Seat Law: (http://www.gahighwaysafety.org/cpsbottomline.html)

By new mom

June 4, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Last summer, I rode with a neighbor of mine down to our neighborhood pool. On the way back, she let her 2 1/2 yr old child SIT IN HER LAP WHILE SHE DROVE BACK TO HER HOUSE. She said ‘oh, it’s only for such a short distance’. I couldn’t believe my eyes, I was so scared for that child.

I realized that it wasn’t going to matter to her that I thought it was unsafe, and I also said to myself: “mental note—never let our kids ride with her—ever!!!” This is someone I know very well, would have ordinarly trusted greatly, and, had I not witnessed this, would have allowed our child to ride with in a heartbeat. You really never know….

By Penguinmom

June 4, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Seriously, I wouldn’t want to live in such a state of fear. As a Christian, at some point, you need to let go and trust that God’s watching out for your kids better than you are.

If I knew someone who seemed litigious, I wouldn’t offer to drive their kids. Other than that, I trust my kids riding with all of my friends. Their kids ride with me. If we’re heading somewhere together, we often split the kids up so all the boys ride together in one car and all the girls in the other.

Making sure their kids are riding in appropriate aged booster seats is the parent’s responsibility. If they want their kids in a particular booster seat, they need to provide that or speak up (unless it’s obvious that the kids is too small to sit without a seat).

By LisaT

June 4, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I often carpool with a group of friends and parents of my daughter’s classmates. I don’t think it’s a big deal as long as I know the parent well, and trust their driving ability!

Regarding booster seats, I have a few extras I bring along and I always make sure the person my daughters are riding with have extras as well. Regardless of Georgia Law, the AAP recommends that children be in a booster until they are 4’ 9” and/or an adult seatbelt fits PROPERLY. That’s between the ages of 8 and 12 for most kids. My almost 9 year old daughter rides in a booster, as do most of her friends, and she’ll continue to do so until she meets those requirements!

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

“Booster” == Just another thing to go crashing into the kid unnecessarily in a crash.

Once the kid is too big for a proper carseat, he sits his tail in the seat just like the adults.

Now, that said, he probably won’t sit in the FRONT seat until he is slightly bigger, but the back seat is well protected enough in most cars that the added danger of the booster FAR outweighs its so-called “benefits”.

By SS Mom

June 4, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Jeff, the issue isn’t the ‘protection’ the booster seat provides, it’s the child being at a proper height so that the shoulder belt fits properly across their chest, not across their throats.

No amount of so called protection in the back seat is going to help that.

It’s clear that you know a lot more about the subject that the so called experts in the field, but I hope no other parents put their children’s safety into your hands!

By FCM

June 4, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

@Lisa T

GA law (if you went to the link I put up) says 4’9” for the booster. There was a law that said no child in the front seat unless 12 yo OR there are no rear seats OR all other rear seats are occupied by other children OR the child is under 80lbs AND the shoulder harness is not available in the back.

By patiently waiting

June 4, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

I understand the uncertainty with allowing people you may not know well to drive your children around. Who knows what could happen! It’s not about living in at state of fear, its about living in a world where people aren’t as they seem. I may have thought differently prior to reading this story: Alaska Man Arrested for Alleged Sexual Assaults at Sleepovers

ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Authorities say they’ve arrested a man who allegedly molested or raped six adolescent girls during his daughter’s sleepover parties in Anchorage.

Things happen. And I don’t want to take the chance that it may happen to me.

By Stacey

June 4, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

I guess I’m kind of back-pedaling on my previous post, but I guess we do have to think about it being a litigious society. I heard on the new last night that a lady is being charged with vehicular homicide in an accident that killed her daughter and her niece. The SIL (niece’s mother) said that although she knows it was truly an accident, she agreed that her SIL should be charged because she was driving too fast for conditions. That is something to think about.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of booster seats. A good friend of mine who happens to be a police officer argued this with me when I questioned it. His response stayed with me….if you ever had to pull a decapitated child’s body out of the back seat because the seatbelt severed his/her throat you would never question the booster again. You know the mere thought of my child being decapitated has kept from ever questioning it again.

I urge you to look further into the issue before you and T make a ‘final’ decision. In the end its your decision and your child.

The other point is that it is the LAW. I know you to be lawful citizen. I realize the fine is like $50-100 bucks…but the bigger point is that as a father you will have to teach your children this important adage:

“I (you) don’t have to like or even agree with the rules. However, I (you) do have abide by them.”

Believe me, I have told school administrators (among others): “Fine. I think that is an asinine rule but since it’s a school rule I will uphold it.”

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

SSMom:

The most that happens when a seat belt crashes into your neck is rope burn.

Comparatively, a LOT can happen when a 5-15 lb “booster” seat becomes a projectile in a crash, and VERY LITTLE of it is good.

If it was REALLY necessary, they’d make the law irregardless of age. If it is dangerous for a 4’5” 8 yo to be without a booster seat, it is just as dangerous for a 4’5” 38yo to be without one. (Actually, probably MORE dangerous for the adult, as his body will be much more rigid than the child’s.)

BTW: “Experts” will say whatever they are paid to say.

By LisaT

June 4, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

@FCM

I read it differently, but I hope you are right. To me it says that a booster is only required for children under 6 (the very first paragraph), and only if the under 6 year old were over 4’9” could there be an exception.

6 is better than 4 which is what it used to be, but my almost 9 year old, who is over 70 lbs and fairly tall for her age still has the seatbelt cut her across the throat. I can’t imagine how many small 6 and 7 year olds are riding around without boosters.

By Leigh

June 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Hey Penguin mom - God said for me to tell you that’s he’s busy - watch your own kids. And if you’ll also pass along exactly what someone “litigious” looks like, that would be most helpful to everyone here.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

@Lisa T

I can understand where you got that from the front page. I am nerdy enough to have read the pamphlet. I also spoke directly to police officers and attorneys who both assured me that if I was ticketed for a 8 yo under 4’9” I would be paying a fine.

Jeff,

I know several people who have ‘older’ parents who are in the height/weight ranges we are discussing. They make their parents sit in the backseat. One friend says his mother (she’s 82 and 4’10” and frail) will sit there and remark “You know I like to sit up front.” Another man I know is under 5’ he uses a booster to drive.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am a 6’1” 250 lb male who wears his seat belt every day, and who drives 200 miles every day, 120 of them interstate.

Guess where the shoulder restraint on me rests?

On my shoulder.

But what is about 4” to the right of the edge of said seatbelt?

My neck.

Shoulder restraints, by their very design, are dangerous for ALL. Decapitation can happen to ANYONE wearing a shoulder restraint.

Particularly in side-impact crashes, particularly when said side impact is on the right side of the car. At that point, the full force of the crash is projecting your body leftward, often at some decently impressive speeds. But that shoulder belt doesn’t move left, it simply slides across your shoulder and meets your neck, resulting in rope burn and not much else 99% of the time.

It will do that whether you are 6’1”, 250lbs or 3’8”, 60lbs.

Again: If booster seats were REALLY necessary, there would not be an age requirement.

All you are doing with a booster seat is adding an unecessary projectile into your car environment, and a moderately heavy projectile at that. (Force = Mass * acceleration y’all…. Assuming the force of impact is spread equally throughout the car and all objects have equal acceleration, the heavier objects are going to do FAR more damage than the lighter objects.)

By SS Mom

June 4, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

@Jeff

If you use a booster seat properly, and the seat belt is hooked under the arms of the booster, the chances of it becoming a projectile are no more great than the chances of the child coming lose from the seatbelt.

To assume that a seatbelt retracting during a high speed impact on the neck of a small child would cause nothing more than rope burn is naive at best. Do a few google searches on seatbelts and decapitations and see what you find.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I have a question. If my child’s rear-end is where it belongs and properly restrained…Seatbelted into a booster seat. How does the booster become a projectile? By the laws of science I learned, that object should stay under the child not fly out from under them (though I accept it could happen occasionally). Therefore, unless the child becomes a projectile object (and being larger and more heavy than the seat—I would think a more threatening object) I don’t see how the booster becomes one.

Could you please explain to me since it really alludes me and I have never considered myself stupid?

By JJ

June 4, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Let us all remember, that Jeff is a newlywed, and has no children as of yet.

Sorry Jeff, you don’t have all the answers. There is a huge difference between a 6’1” 250 man, as opposed to a 60 lb 3’6” CHILD.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

FCM:

Seat belt fails, booster seat restraint does not, and your child is now strapped to an object that is primarily going to hurt them more than help them. (For example, the added mass in a flip-over situation means that your child is bouncing around with 5-15 extra lbs.)

Yet you still haven’t explained why there is an age requirement for booster seats.

If a 4 yo has to have one for ‘safety’, so does a 34 yo.

Personally, I say go with the Libertarian philosophy and get the government out of my business to begin with.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

JJ:

You are right.

As a matter of fact, a CHILD’s body is actually BETTER equipped to deal with physical trauma than an adult’s.

I know of a case - the younger sister of a girl I was in school with at the time - where a 4yo’s arm was RUN OVER by a car, nothing more than a bruise.

If the same thing had happened to ME, I would have had a broken arm, or at LEAST a strained/pulled muscle.

Adult size is good for many things, but it actually puts us at a LARGER risk than children when it comes to sheer impact trauma.

By JJ

June 4, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Jeff Be sure to tell the policeman those exact words when he pulls you over for not having your child securely belted in to your vehicle, IF AND WHEN you have your own children…..

By nurse&mother

June 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

When will you guys learn that Jeff knows everything. He is always the expert on any topic. I usually ignore his posts as he usually proves himself to be the fool he really is. I usually just sit back and watch. It never fails. If he posts long enough, it becomes evident. I realize that this sounds harsh, but I get tired of reading his ignorant posts. BTW, I can’t wait to see how his future children turn out. From his most recent posts, his kids may not make it to their 10th birthday.

By new mom

June 4, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Don’t booster seats also attach to the car, just as a car seat does? If so, they would be one more level of protection for a child if the seat belt does fail…it would keep them put in the seat and not become a projectile. At least I think so…

(We are still in the rear-facing car seat mode, so I’m not familiar with the mechanics of the booster seats yet!)

By SS Mom

June 4, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Jeff: The fact that you don’t have kids yet explains a lot. Unless you’ve ever buckled a small child into a seatbelt and realized where the belt was hitting their neck, you really don’t know what you are talking about.

To address what appears to be your primary argument - the government has set a minimum requirement, because if they didn’t, half of the idiots in this country wouldn’t put their children in any type of safety restraint. Don’t forget that for many children, there is a significant period of time between when they outgrow their infant/5-point seats and when they are 6 and legally out of a booster. For my oldest, it was a period of 2 years that she was required by law to be in one of those ‘evil, projectile boosters’, based on your assumption that if they were safe, the law would require them…

Why doesn’t the law require them until the child is actually big enough to go without? Not sure about that one, but my guess is because the law is written to the least common denominator. If they made the law 8 (which it is in many states), many of the brilliant parents (and want to be parents), thinking they know more about the doctors and scientists that do this type of thing for a living, wouldn’t take the law seriously and I’m guessing they figure that maybe keeping it at 6, some of these folks will still do the right thing. But that’s just a guess.

All I know is that I’ll is that I’ll take a chance on a 5lb projectile (which again will only be a projectile in the very off chance that the seatbelt fails, yada yada) over the very real possibility that a 4 inch piece of woven nylon applied at a very high force over the very small neck of my child would do some damage.

Speaking of projectiles, Jeff, when you do have this child…please remember that everything in a car becomes a projectile. So every time you put the child in the car, everything goes in the trunk…including your cup of coffee, your cell phone (imagine the damage that will do when flung at the child’s head), brief cases, etc. And I hope to god you don’t drive an SUV where it’s all just lying in the back. Actually, what I really hope is that if you do have children, your wife has more sense than you do.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

JJ:

If he’s too big for a carseat, and he has the seat belt on, he IS securely belted in to my vehicle, and yes, I will fight that one to the US Supreme Court if I have to.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

nurse:

Actually, I simply advocate a return to COMMON SENSE PARENTING. You know, the way parents raised their kids before the nanny state came into being.

And COMMON SENSE says that if it is illegal for a 4 yo of a certain size to be in a car without a booster seat, it should be illegal for a 34yo of the same size to be without one as well.

Of course, COMMON SENSE also says that the government regulating individual’s lives is exactly the sort oof TYRANNY the Founding Fathers fought AGAINST.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Jeff, My mother’s and my life were saved by not wearing a seatbelt (1970s). They had to cut her out of the vehicle. My brother was in his baby seat and he along with the whole back seat rammed into the front seat throwing my mother up over the steering wheel.

I had been ‘playing’ in the back floorboard so I was basically in a ‘cave’ of the seats in the back. My brother had a split lip, I had minor bruises. (Although I was young and do not recall the impact I do recall the paramedics, the people who held us as they cut my mother out and attended the other injured and the emergency room). My mother broke ribs, nose, knee, arm, suffered a concussion, and a host of other problems (she lived).

My point is for years (decades?) I grew up hearing how my mother and I would be dead (me crushed) if we had been in seatbelts.

When the seatbelt law went into effect we had a hard time adjusting to it. Then one night I (17) drove my brother to the store. We were wearing our seatbelts. The officer told us if my brother had not had his on, he would have been thrown from the vehicle and likely killed. 4 years later my brother (19) was hit by a drunk driver…again, we were told if it weren’t for the seatbelt he would be dead.

Ok, so that is more than anyone on here wanted to know but here is a fact:

Wearing seatbelts saves more lives than not wearing one. My family (Mom included) wears theirs.

While there is a chance that the booster seat will become an object of harm, the facts are they do save more lives.

Your mind is clearly made up—however, I will again urge you to do more research before you and T make a final decision.

By JJ

June 4, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff…

WHEN you have children, they will be the most important/precious thing in your life. You will do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING in your power to keep them safe.

Your words are going to come back and bite you in the butt. Trust me on this one!!!!

By Penguinmom

June 4, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Leigh: My ‘God’ comment was directed mainly at Theresa who I know is a Christian. If you dont’ believe in God then, by all means, watch over your kids extra closely. I rest easier knowing Someone bigger, more powerful and omnipresent is controlling things.

‘Seemed litigious’ would not be based on appearance. It would be based on comments made over the course of time. I only transport chidren of people I know reasonably well.

Obviously, no one cannot always determine when someone is going to sue quickly. (And from a previous post, you could even have a family member that is that way.) I was just saying that if someone seems to lean in a legal suit direction, then I would try to avoid putting myself in a situation that I could be sued.

I also agree with new mom’s post that if I was taking a group of kids from church or other group on an outing, I would be more comfortable if I had a signed release form. If someone is really determined though, that release form is not going to completely prevent them from making your life miserable.

I just can’t live my life in fear of what bad thing might happen next. “Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” Matt 6:34

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Oh, and to those saying that I shouldn’t have kids:

TRUST me, the knowledge that YOU have kids is JUST as scary to me as the idea of me having kids is to you.

YOUR kids will continue the slide to Big Brother.

MY kids will be the ones taking up arms - if necessary - in defense of liberty.

A line from Star Wars, highly appropriate here: “So this is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause.”

By Thor

June 4, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

The Police perform free car seat checks to make sure everything is hooked up properly. According to the cops, many people think they have thier car seats installed properly when they really don’t.

Have the cops check it out anytime; its part of your tax dollars at work.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

And COMMON SENSE says that if it is illegal for a 4 yo of a certain size to be in a car without a booster seat, it should be illegal for a 34yo of the same size to be without one as well.

A 34 yo is supposed to be able to make a COMMON SENSE decision between right and wrong. A child does not have the capacity to do so. You could argue that the parent should make the decision…but as SS Mom points out many parents will only follow the minimum requirement. Having studied our founding fathers rather extensively, I can say that your correct, children were not ‘valued’ the way they are today so they probably didn’t have them in mind when they wrote our governing documents. However since we as people have evolved (good old Darwin!), we have put a value on children (which by the way Christ advocated with “suffer the little children to come unto me”) and therefore we do ‘owe’ them the right to at least make it to 18 and the right to make their own stupid decisions.

By Jeff

June 4, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

JJ:

You are exactly correct:

I will do everything in MY power to protect MY kids.

The GOVERNMENT is NOT my kids’ parent, nor mine. The GOVERNMENT is over stepping its bounds ANY time it tells me as a parent what to do with MY kid.

My whole argument here is not necessarily against booster seats per se. As FCM has said, I am against them and my mind is made up, and most of you are clearly for them and your mind is made up.

MY argument is that the GOVERNMENT has ZERO business telling us as parents what to do with our kids.

If the GOVERNMENT wants to make a law saying that people of a certain size have to be in booster seats while in cars, then that law should apply to ALL people, regardless of age, who are that size.

Me, I say the law shouldn’t be there in the first place…

By nurse&mother

June 4, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Jeff-While I will agree with you only in the sense that Gov’t doesn’t always use common sense (too many burocrats/red tape), I am quite certain that there have been numerous crash tests done on car seats and booster seats. I am fairly confident that the National Highway Traffic SAfety has done it’s homework.

I remember reading several years back (before such stringent booster seat laws) in a Parents mag(I think) where one mother was sharing her story of her five year old (I think he was 5) who died in a crash. Apparantly she was told that if he had been in a booster seat he would have survived the crash. She though she was doing everything right. Because it was not illegal at that time to have a 5yo buckled up with just a belt.

By nurse&mother

June 4, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I will now stop feeding the troll.

By Thor

June 4, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

On that last point I do agree with you. Freedom. I don’t like the government telling me that my kid must wear a helmet when riding a bloody bike.

Most parents are overprotective, all about raising a child to conform, little independent thought… and on and on….

Freedom.

By FCM

June 4, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

JJ—we married the type. You know how this goes.

By Jesse's Girl

June 4, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

How the hell did we go from a freakin’ booster seat to government and freedom? Stop talking to the twit people….it only ends badly.

By lovin life

June 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

YIKES! I am almost scared to step into this one. All this booster seat talk. Here is my 2 cents (and i hope it is even worth that much) E our 4 almost 5 year old is still in a 5 point harness. She is about to get too tall. My hubby and I just took her to one of the big baby and kid stores and bought her britax’s new 5 point harness for older kids. She is 4feet 2 inches and weighs 39 pounds. She is very petite looking, but the most important is that research shows kids are safest in the back seat in a 5 point harness. I will not put her in a booster. They are not as safe. If she rides with a friend that seat (or the spare we bought) go with her. That said she rides with friends. We carpool sometimes on Saturdays, and she goes from school to playdates. The seat goes into the building with her and sits in the corner until it is time to go. The main seat stays strapped into my car. Theresa I understand the fear, but if it is a mom I will let E go home with, it should be a mom I trust to drive. I don’t want someone I don’t trust driving to watch, or feed her.

By HB

June 4, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

It’s my understanding that few kids have actually been injured by seatbelts being across their throats. The more common problem is few children are going to put up with a shoulder strap across their neck or in front of their face. Rather, they were moving the strap behind their backs or under their arms, leaving them with only a lap belt that didn’t function correctly as a lap belt because it wasn’t designed as such. Almost like not wearing one at all. The booster seats have ensured that the belts are used correctly with all parts in front of the child.

As for age limits, I’m not sure why it’s not higher for smaller children, but I do know why it’s not required for small adults — because their are certain safety issues where society believes adults have the right to assess risks and decide for themselves. It’s why adults (even ones with pulmonary disease at greater risk, which to me would be the equivalent of a small adult in a seatbelt) can buy cigarettes, but minors can’t.

By new mom

June 4, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

In order to demonstrate our love for liberty and freedom, let’s all let our kids jump and play in the car without a car or booster seat.

Car wreck? That will toughen them up, dag-nabbit. If they can survive the horrific accident, they won’t grow up to be sissies—hooray!

By tb

June 4, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

I also never used a booster with my 3 kids. I too believe they are unsafe.

By Sunny

June 4, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Has anyone considered that the size of the child might be the reason for the booster seat laws? Not every child is going to fit into a booster and will have to use the adult seat belt. Ya’ll leave Jeff alone- most of the time he’s good but tonight he seems to have forgotten to be a gentleman. Must have had a bad day!

By Suck it up

June 6, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

The way most of you moms drive, I don’t think you should even be allowed to drive. Get off your friggin’ phone and pay attention. And, put your little darlin’ on the school bus. Got news for you, that little darlin’ of yours isn’t so precious that they can’t ride the bus.

By db

June 6, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

I never had a problem driving other kids in my car — Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, school, soccer, swim league, whatever. Frankly, it never occurred to me that I’d be sued, and I’m just not going to live my life with that kind of fear.

If it makes you feel any better, if you volunteer with Girl Scouts in any capacity that has interaction with the girls, then you have to complete a volunteer application and they run a quick background check. I’ve actully been told that one mom was not permitted to drive the girls — was not told the reason, but she later confided it was probably due to a DUI she received.

But, of course, I live OTP, and drive the big, bad freeways every day, so they don’t pose a terror to me. :-) If you aren’t comfortable with driving the route, you should probably pass on driving it with excited kids in the car.

Re: Booster seats. We had one long before they became a law because a) the seat belt fit better, and b) that little “lift” meant my child had a better view! It was no big deal.

And, finally, I have to admit that I was shocked when the family my daughter babysits for regularly was so delighted when she got her license. The week after she got it, the mom called and asked her if she could pick up her 4-year-old from ballet?!?! I was speechless!

By Cynthia Armistead

June 6, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

I don’t have a problem driving other people’s kids around, as long as the kids wear a seatbelt and obey my rules in the car. I don’t mind my daughter riding with people we know pretty well, either.

As far as Girl Scouts go, troops want parents to join as adult members so that you’ll be covered by the GSUSA liability insurance when you do have girls riding in your vehicle for a GS event. It’s an excellent investment.