By Jeff

April 29, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

I’m fairly familiar, as I am a small-time gamer myself. Though I rarely pay attention to them. Doubt I will even when I have a kid, as I’ll probably be sitting right there beside him playing it with him. If I think it is too objectionable, we flat out won’t buy it or rent it. (But there are VERY few games I place in that category, though there are certainly a few more when the kid is younger. Problem is, I honestly don’t have any right now that I would object to my kid playing at any age, and I have things ranging from Metroid Prime Corruption to Mortal Kombat Armageddon to Marvel Ultimate Alliance to Guitar Hero III.)

I don’t THINK Gamestop will sell an M to an under-age teen without at least ASKING for their birthdate. Though they don’t ask for proof of said date, in my experience, meaning that a 12 yo that LOOKS 17 should be able to get it.

Would I buy GTAIV for my kid? I’ve personally never really been into that particular series, so I’d probably rent it first. If we played it and I deemed it too objectionable, we wouldn’t buy it. If I didn’t, we probably would.

Do you mean should there be a LAW??? To THAT, I say HADES NO!!!!. Do I think there should be an industry wide commonly accepted practice of ratings enforcement? As long as it was voluntary and not government-influenced in any way, I say go for it.

By Sam

April 29, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

How are movie ratings any more enforceable than game ratings? The MPAA and ESRB are both voluntary efforts run by their respective industries. Neither has the rule of law governing its principles or structure. The MPAA has been around longer and has been doing a great job of enforcement. Their rating system is ingrained in American popular culture. The ESRB is improving in enforcement every year.

If anything, the ESRB ratings are more descriptive, since they have content descriptors to tell you exactly what kind of content is in the game, right on the box. I can go to a theatre and see a movie without knowing anything more than the rating. It just takes reading the back of the box to tell what’s in the game.

By Theresa

April 29, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Hey SAm — aren’t questionably aged kids asked to show licenses to get into R rated movies (in theory at least)??? Sadly I haven’t been carded in a long time — not even for liquor!

By V for Vendetta

April 29, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

I wandered over here because of the topic. As a part-time game player, I find the trend towards ratings just as ridiculous as it is for movies and music. All these ratings demonstrate is a lack of parental involvement in kids’ lives. End of story.

Let’s be real for a second. If you’re worried about a movie your child wants to see then look it up on the internet or in the paper and read about it. Make your decision, and that’s that. If they disobey you, you punish them accordingly, but I doubt their lives will be ruined because they heard a bad word or saw a boob.

The same logic applies to video games. The Grand Theft Auto series is loaded with violence, gore, profanity, nudity, and sexual themes. I don’t think it takes a brain surgeon to find that out from reading a few articles or reviews.

Too many parents are nothing more than lazy sacks of organs providing a place for their kids to live and little else. I’m with Jeff on this one: keep the government (or governing bodies) out of the equation. If your kid buys the game, you have no one to blame but YOURSELF—not the game, or its creators, or the government, or some guy that looks like the dude in Grand Theft Auto.

And, on a separate note, and a cinephile I must add to heck with the MPAA. They outlived their usefulness a LONG time ago. Enough babysitting! If people aren’t smart enough to make their own informed decisions, that’s their cross to bear. Leave the rest of us alone.

By fk

April 29, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

My son, 17, can still easily be consumed by video/computer games. I can’t stand them. It’s like tunnel vision. Things got so bad at one point that I started setting a timer b/c he would spend hours at a time in front of them. He started with the N64 system when he was in k or 1st grade and moved up onto better systems. Big mistake. I have refused to purchase anything video game related for the last six years or so. If he wants it, he buys it himself. It’s truly amazing how the gotta-have-it-now syndrome has diminished. Plus, he’s very involved with school, sports and a job, so he doesn’t really have the time. He is saving for his next game system, though.

We followed the game-rating system as well as the movie rating system. However, not all parents do, actually most parents, in our experience, did not. That was quite a surprise. When he was in Tiger Cubs, first grade, the den took a field trip to a local police dept. I reluctantly went b/c my husband backed out at the last minute. It was a learning experience, to say the least. The only things these boys wanted to talk about were guns…not the side-arms, the big guns. The boys were very knowledgeable about high powered weapons. Geez, they were 6 & 7 years old, how did they know so much about big guns? Their father’s video games. Okay, most did not play the violent games, but they did watch their dads play. WTH?

I can remember heading to the store to buy a video game that he had to have. He needed to practice so that he could compete with his buddies. He was 9 and I was taken aback that the game did not have an “E” rating. I started questioning my judgment. Was I being over protective? I can’t recall if the rating was “T” or “M”. I was stuck on purchasing only “E” rated games at the time. Even the kid behind the register agreed with me that this particular game was a bit too much for a 9 y/o. The rating had to do with violence. Yet all of his friends had it…all of them. Why? Either they really wanted it and the parents simply could not say no, or the dad wanted it. Grow up already and be a parent.

By JJ

April 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Theresa - Based on my experience, they do not card kids at “R” rated movies. My daughter has been going to “R” rated movies since she was 16.

By E

April 29, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Just got the game last night.

One word: AMAZING!

By Theresa

April 29, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Hey FK — obviously our boy is not allowed to play Halo but i’ll walk in and Michael will be playing and he’ll be watching — I’m like are you nuts??? He can’t see that - it’s not OK for him !!

By Thor

April 29, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I just can’t imagine a adult, a father, playing video games on a regular basis. Nothing would surprise me anymore. Show me a grown man who likes to play video games on a regular basis and I’ll show you someone who doesn’t read books. Parenting now means playing video games with your boy as a form of “quality time”? Are you kidding me?

By Temp

April 29, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Theresa, most theaters will ask for ID for R rated movies, but they have no obligation to do so. It is completely up to the theater whether or not they want to enforce that. The same holds true for software stores, they have no obligation to check ages, but most will as a courtesy.

This is defintely how it should be. As a parent, it is your obligation to make sure your kids are watching or playing what you think is appropriate, not the theater’s or the store’s.

By Theresa

April 29, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

E — How violent, sexual or graphic is it?? Is it worse than the other versions?

By Jesse's Girl

April 29, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

We have never owned any kind of gaming system and never will. Its a complete waste of childhood in my opinion. Thank goodness our kids like to go outside to play, ride bikes, put on plays or wrestle eachother to the ground! I have disliked video games from the very beginning. They have played them before at friends’ homes and even at church when we had a lock-in. However, it was really no big deal to them….and for that I am grateful. I think its such a shame when kids spend hours playing these games and its an even greater shame that parents spend the money on them when they could be spending time with them doing something meaningful. I suppose like everything it can be done in moderation. But I have never seen that happen…these things suck you in and it causes kids to lose that awesome sense of childhood. But of course….this is just my opinion.

By Theresa

April 29, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Hey THor — I think for parents who came of age in the 80s video games are away to decompress — I think mot if not all of my friends’ husbands play at night for relaxation —- My son is interested and that is one thing they do together (hopefully appopriate games) — but they also do lots of sports, lots of reading, lots of wrestling, lots of playing with little men together too — Also my husband reads a ton but the video games are mindless and relaxing for him

By Temp

April 29, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Thor, your statement, “I just can’t imagine a adult, a father, playing video games on a regular basis.” is completely absurd. Do you realize that the average age of game players is around 30 years old? Games are not for kids, they are a mature medium for mature adults, just like movies or television. Your statement is equivalent to saying that any father who watches movies never reads. Just because you may not like games does not mean they are to be denigrated or dismissed. I know I’m looking forward to getting my copy of GTA IV from Amazon in the next day or 2.

By JJ

April 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

My brother, 46 years old, plays Wii with his kids and the neighbor kids. They have competitions, “brackets” etc. The neighbors also have Wii and all of them play, kids and adults. I personally LOVE Wii, but cannot afford one, so we go to my brothers.

By Belle

April 29, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

I can see anyone playing video games. My husband plays every evening after the kids are in bed. Does it bother me? No! Do I think it is wrong/bad? No! It is how he unwinds at the end of the day. There are much worse things he could be doing so please don’t condem any husband/father that plays a game especially if they work all day. Heck, I like to play as well every now and then. Now that I have that out of my system…on to the question at hand. No I don’t pay attention to the ratings as much as my own judgement. I will take them under advisement but I will make the final call on a game that my child may want. If I don’t think it is appropriate then we will find something else.
I don’t like the idea of the government or anyone else censoring any form of mass media.

By Sick of this crap

April 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

This “blog” does not belong in the health section. Not only does the “author” give out bad medical advice about autism (her last post), it has nothing to do about anything medical. The so called topics where she does cover something medical, she does not give any good information. It is all just “what do you think”.

This is not a blog. This is a misinformed piece of crap that does nothing to educate about real health issues.

Must be nice to be well off, healthy, and have perfect little kids in her little bubble.

Gag me with a spoon.

By motherof4

April 29, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

I will not let my boys play any games that have profanity. As soon as they get used to hearing it they will get used to saying it. Same as contracts and speaking properly. Profanity is already bad enough in school, not just the students. Teachers are throwing more words around also, it is almost a part of the everyday language.

That being said, my brother bought Grand Theft Auto for his son, around my oldest age. I was like WTH are you kidding me? Come to find out the person can pick up prostitutes and all the other stuff in between. So the age requirement does not stop parents from getting it.

I was in the store one time and a father wanted to buy the Simpons for his 8 year old son. The clerk stated several times, you know they have profanity in this and it is rated Teen…he still bought it for his child.

As for the violence, our kids are seeing too much on t.v. let alone playing games killing everyone. I always state I am liberal, but when someone is killed and a child that sees it or does it does not blink an eye, I start believing I am becoming conservative. Their reaction speaks volumes about our society. The games are marketed as things you would want to do but can’t. But what happens when the player can not draw the line between the game and real life. The player begins to do senseless crimes or act out violently.

By JJ

April 29, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Sick We don’t really care what you think…why are you even here?

By Jesse's Girl

April 29, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I have no issue with grown folks playing video games if they so choose. MOST of them have the ability to cut it off after a bit. But children should be encouraged to do other things with their time. It concerns me with summer approaching….kids all over will be shooting and stealing cars via their video game world instead of doing what kids should do…playing outside and making memories with their buds.

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Thor:

I play my Wii roughly 10-20 hours a week, I own roughly a dozen games for it, and I’ve read 18 books so far this year, and continue to read roughly 1 a week. (Typically the books I read are 300+ pages, but a FEW have been in the 180-200 range.)

Can you say you HAVEN’T played games and yet have read more than a one book a week average this year???

MOST of the males in my circle play video games, and any one of us could challenge you - and different ones of us could probably beat you - at nearly any competition you want to name. (I say that only to point out that we are a fairly diverse - in terms of things we are interested in and good at - group.)

To the point of many males using video games to decompress:

I wholeheartedly agree. My brothers and I discovered that we could kill each other to our hearts’ content in the various gaming systems, get out our aggression, and still live with each other LONG ago. It is a lesson not soon forgotten.

Even now, I go home and play Guitar Hero III for a few minutes many nights as a way to unload/unwind. Fairly relaxing…

By RamblinLonghorn

April 29, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

“Unlike movie ratings the video game ratings are not enforceable.”

You are wrong. MPAA ratings are not enforcable. Theaters choose to abide by them to avoid public backlash. It’s a violation of free speech to limit access to a film (decency laws for porn are an exception). Movies and games follow the same rules, yet there are no protests against the latest bloodbath flick because the public is used to the MPAA system and trusts it.

Just learn the ratings and stop complaining when you see your precious snowflake eliminating a fake hooker with a fake bat.

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Regarding violence in video games:

Does watching a TV show where a person shoplifts force you to shoplieft?

Does watching a movie where someone has his head blown off by a 12 gauge from 3 feet away make you go out and do that to someone?

Because video games are no different, and are in fact even LESS realistic.

In a movie, you have a character - usually played by a real person - doing ghe shoplifting/killing/dieing/etc.

In a video game, you have a digital representation of a character doing it. No real humans involved, even on those games that are based on real people (such as the various sports games).

Personally, I prefer people to kill digital represenations of characters and get the aggression out of their system that way that walk into a mall loaded for bear….

By Colin McInnes

April 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Unlike movie ratings the video game ratings are not enforceable.

In the US there is no legal penalty for selling or renting movies to minors. They may get fined by the Theatre Association, but that group is no different than the ESA, which self-regulates the game industry.

I am getting sick and tired of people pretending that video games need to be held to some imaginary standard that no other media is held to…

By abc

April 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Allowing your children to play games such as first-person shooters, the absolute most vile of which is Grand Theft Auto, is irresponsible. Any game that involves hunting of humans, including such as paintball, is just plain sick. THINK of what your children are learning! That first-person shooters make up the bulk of video game offerings is a strong commentary on the value, or socially redeeming lack thereof, of video games.

Instead of Guitar Hero, why don’t you go buy an actual guitar and learn to play an actual instrument? It takes about the same amount of effort, and you have something worthwhile to show for it.

By motherof4

April 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Jeff—video games are so realistic now the Army is using them to simulate war. They did not even develop their own game at first, they bought it from a retail store. You as an adult prefers that, but can child notice or tell the difference? It goes back to the old argument that violent cartoons are desensitizing the children. Since I was growing up in that era I said no. But I have seen children mocking what they saw, unfortunately the person died. It does all go back to parental - neighbor involvement. Remember the neighbors had a right to discipline you also.

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

motherof4:

It does all go back to parental - neighbor involvement.

EXACTLY!!!!

It is not the video game that is the problem. The problem is that the parent isn’t doing their job.

Personally, I’m going to make sure my kid knows two things:

1) If they do something stupid - anything, from backtalking a teacher to imitating a bad element of a tv show/movie/video game - they will personally answer to DAD first, and THEN any other appropriate people/agencies.

2) You do NOT want to have to answer to Dad!

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

abc:

Again: I would rather a person’s digital representation of a video game character walk up to another digital representation of a video game character with a 12 gauge and blow said digital representation of a video game character’s head off than for said person to physically grab a 12 gauge and walk into the local mall and do this.

At least the video game gave them a NON-DESTRUCTIVE vent to their aggression rather than actually killing a person.

To those idiots that think they can get away with imitating what they see on tv/movies/video games in real life, it comes down to two things:

1) They themselves are idiots.

2) Their parents are idiots for not teaching them any better.

By Temp

April 29, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

“Instead of Guitar Hero, why don’t you go buy an actual guitar and learn to play an actual instrument? It takes about the same amount of effort, and you have something worthwhile to show for it.”

Really? You really think that? Guitar Hero takes about 10 minutes to pick up and learn how to play on a level that lets you have fun. I doubt anyone can say the same for a guitar.

That’s like asking why someone plays monopoly instead of actually buying real estate.

By abc

April 29, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

It depends on degree of acceptability. I never allowed my kids to have toy guns; I told them that pretending to shoot someone was inappropriate and not to be considered fun, as it represents an affront to society. Why should pretending to kill someone be considered recreational? It shouldn’t be.

That there’s a difference between pretending to kill someone and actually killing someone is obvious to every normal human on the planet. That pretending to kill someone may not make one more likely to actually kill someone (ridiculous as that premise is, for either side of the argument) has no impact on the point I wish to make: none of it makes pretending to kill people, or emulate any of the criminal behavior in Grand Theft Auto, any more acceptable.

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

abc:

One of the jobs of parents is to teach their kids to handle emergencies, preferrably in non-emergency situations first. If this can be done without the kid ever really knowing he is being trained, all the better.

One of the reasons I don’t mind letting kids play sword fight, shoot each other with toy guns, play first person shooters, play strategy games (including both Risk and the Tom Clancy series of games), etc is this:

They learn basic mechanics of/tactics with basic weaponry (up to and including RPGs and various missile systems in some games), and they’re having FUN, meaning they don’t KNOW that Dad is actually training them on a basic level to be able to protect themeslves and their families later in life.

Now, will you be able to take the weapons/tactics you learn on the playground/in video games and go up against a former Marine? HECK NO!!!!

Will you be able to go up against the more typical thug that breaks into your house? HECK YES!!!!

After all, as momof4 said, there are REASONS even the US Military uses various games as valid training excercises!!

By Scuba-Steve

April 29, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Thor, I am a 30 year old man with a beautiful wife and two beautiful kids who has a degree and great job. I love to read, play with kids outside, ride bikes and go fishing. I also like to play video games…got a problem with that?

By Fisher

April 29, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff, im glad to know you are training your children to use rocket propelled grenades and ‘various missile systems’ so that they may protect their homes from typical thugs. let me know how that one turns out.

while i agree with you about violence in video games etc, you are a complete moron.

By E

April 29, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

These parents don’t care as long as the child is quiet. I’ve been playing Call of Duty 4 & the amount of kids on this game is quite scary.

By Ross

April 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Games like this should not be offerd to any youth under 21. Whether or not their parents buy it for them. Don’t we not have enough violence in the real world? Having them in a game only makes it OK to youth. So next time you get mugged by a 19 year old - don’t ask what our world is coming to!

By Thor

April 29, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Grand Theft Auto is very popular and capitalism is filling a need in the market; people want this stuff. Ultimately its the parents responsibility and we should all know what our children are using for entertainment on the computer. I know parents who use the video game as nothing more than a baby sitter - hey, the kid is quiet so I can watch TV and I don’t to do anything - Whoo Hoo!

Grand Theft should be allowed to be sold and I’m not in favor of censorship, regardless of the content. Whenever parents start raising the issue of controlling disturbing subjects, I always like to remind them that the Bible is just packed full of sex, violence and even torture.

BTW, the US Army has a video game for recruiting purposes! Bloody wonderful.

By RL

April 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Did you know that the Virginia Tech Gunman played video games. It’s true! According to roommates, he had been playing Sonic the Hedgehog frequently.

If only we had limited his access to gold rings, that whole tragedy could have been avoided.

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Fisher:

I was simply pointing out the wide range of weapons in some games. And the fact that your in-game tactics change as you acquire different weapons and go through different situations, and therefore your real life tactics would change based on your weapons and the situation. (As in: If I have a long distance weapon such as a rocket launcher or sniper rifle - I’m thinking HALO here - I’m going to use different tactics than if I have a shotgun and the energy sword. Shotgun/energy sword, I’m going to try to get close and blast away, even if that means running at them in full view. Rocket launcher/ sniper rifle, I’m going to try to find a good hiding spot up high and take them out from as long a distance as possible.)

By Thor

April 29, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Ah, I yearn for the good ole days of young lads finding a dirty magazine. I wonder if today’s generation misses that experience?

By for petes sake

April 29, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Jeff- you are a true idiot that won’t shut up - see what happens when the kids start talking Theresa?

By abc

April 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

As I watched a musician playing Guitar Hero at expert level — or the top level, whatever that was — he recounted to me that it took him 3-4 months of endless playing to get there. I thought it would be time better spent on an actual instrument. Playing an instrument is, in itself, entertaining, albeit in a more cerebral and real-world way.

While you may not become expert at playing a real guitar in 3-4 months, you could learn to strum a few songs, and who knows? Maybe you’d even become more enlightened as to relative value of different entertainment types. Maybe you’d even watch less TV! (Okay, that’s going too far, my apologies.)

Let’s hope that those parental skills you espouse never have to be put into practice, Jeff. If there were a parental qualification test, you’d certainly flunk.

By Doh

April 29, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Jeff, aren’t you taking the virtual experience too far already? You sure seem to be taking all the ‘digital representation’ into account for what you’d do in real life. If fact, you’re starting to sound like a real sicko.

By DB

April 29, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

I class video games as pretty much in the same category as watching TV — pretty mindless, and harmless as long as you stay aware of the fact that it’s mindless. :-) I don’t see a problem with escapism every now and then, and at least with video games, there is an element of thought and reaction, as opposed to passive watching. The problem, of course, is that one can lose lose track of one’s life while immersed. We always say in our house “10 minutes on a computer is equivalent to 30 minutes in real life.” (stemming from multiple cries of “I just need 10 more minutes!”)

At 19, my son is past the age where I monitor his video game purchases. I have to admit, though, I have really enjoyed playing “Guitar Hero” with him — even though I’ve never gotten off of “Easy”. It’s not playing a guitar — it’s playing a competitive game that LOOKS like guitar. Big difference. He’s very responsible about his playing, so that’s never been a problem. In fact, when I commented that GTA was coming out now, he laughed and said, “NO WAY am I buying that before exams are over!”

By DB

April 29, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

SCUBA-STEVE!! I know you! You were the instructor for my Girl Scout troop last year! You were awesome!

By Jeff

April 29, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

To the ‘kids can never point a toy gun at each other’ crowd, a few quotes (all from a single book, written by a Dartmouth grad who was one of the first Marines in both Afghanistan and Iraq):

I hoped that I’d done more right than wrong, hoped that I hadn’t been cavalier with people’s lives. I was learning to accept that sometimes the only way to fight evil is with another evil, however good its aim.

And I mourned for myself. Not in self-pity, but for the kid who’d come to Iraq. He was gone. I did all this in the dark, away from the platoon, because combat command is the loneliest job in the world.

They thought that the job’s practical hardships had driven me out. But they were wrong. For me, the intangible honor and pride of being a Marine officer outweighed all the adversity.

They knew that I had chafed under a hierarchy that sometimes valued polished boots more than tactical competence in its leaders. They knew that I had joined the Marines to hold a sword, not a pencil. They were right, but the real reason was deeper. I left the Corps because I had become a reluctant warrior. Many Marines reminded me of gladiators. They had that mysterious qyality that allows some men to strap on greaves and a breastplate and wade into the gore. I respected, admired, and emulated them, but I could never be like them. I could kill when killing was called for, and I got hooked on the rush of combat as much as any man did. But I couldn’t make the conscious choice to put myself in that position again and again throughout my professional life.

-Each of the above is from One Shot Away: The Making of a Marine Officer by Capt. Nathaniel Fick.

By Thor

April 29, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Hey Jeff,

Nice quote for a different subject matter, what does that have to do with violent video games?

I went through Quantico like this guy did, but I like the Sermon on the Mount better, don’t you?

By Jesse's Girl

April 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Some of you have WAY too much time on your hands with your long winded, quotes and posts. Get back to your job(s)…talk about spending your time wisely. Or not.

By jb

April 29, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Jeff - they have a few openings in Iraq.

By Vicki

April 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

To me, these games are just a waste of time and money. We have no gaming system in our home. Right now our boys are outside playing basketball!

By DB

April 29, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Musing: Sometimes I think that these video games are meeting a need that kids have for aggressive fantasy. We have become a society that frowns on aggressive play to the point that little boys (especially, but some little girls, too), are scolded for non-PC behavior such as pretend guns and sword fighting. Do we really think that we are de-programming a basic need to exert control over our environment when we do that? Perhaps the video games are, in some way, meeting that need? Heck, it’s even CALLED a “controller”!

Just remember, when little boys used to play cowboys and indians, or cops-and-robbers, there was always a GOOD guy ane a BAD guy. And the good guy won more often than not, and there was seldom any ambiguity. Little kids did not play “rob the poor homeless guy” or “shoot the old lady in her backyard after you rape her.”

By luvs2teach

April 29, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I appreciate that the ratings are there - I used them more when my kids were younger. Now, my 17 year old will probably buy GTA4 with his own money.

We kept our kids pretty sheltered (we didn’t even have cable) until they were about 9 or 10 - after The Big Sex Talk we opened up pretty much everything - but by then values had been established. We watched with them - we played with them - it made a huge difference.

One thing we didn’t do was allow them to have their own TV or computer in their room - one tv and one computer in our house - both in the family room. It forces you all to monitor time, share and take turns.

As far as Guitar Hero goes - that game rocks LITERALLY! I learned guitar and piano when I was younger and I just don’t have the talent - but I can play Guitar Hero!

Even better is Rock Band - I’ll sing or play guitar, my son plays drums or guitar, my husband will play guitar or bass - my son’s friends will even hang out with us and play - it’s like the Partridge Family.

Funniest part? My 17 year old and all his buddies listen to 97.1 The River, lol! They hear a lot of the music from the game.

By JJ

April 30, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Vickie GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

Too bad more parents aren’t like you. We don’t have any gaming systems either!!!!

Just last night we were out on the Suwanee GreenWay, walking 4 miles with the dogs!!!!

Get off your butts and get outside. There is an entire world out there waiting for you!!!!

By Jeff

April 30, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Thor:

They are actually perfect to this discussion.

Most that don’t like violent video games don’t like them because they see the world through ultra-rose colored glasses. They think that everyone is nice and that kids should never see or hear or think anything other than ‘nice’ things.

And then they are surprised and outraged when a ‘less than nice’ person comes along and mugs them or abducts their kid or says a cuss word, etc etc etc.

Me, I choose to be a realist. There are evil men out there, and they must be dealt with. If you can use a ‘nice’ strategy to deal with them, GREAT!!!! But for the more evil men out there, they will NEVER respond to niceness. Meaning a good man must wrap himself in evil in order to combat a greater evil, just as the quote said.

Violent video games allow a kid to become acquainted with how to wrap themselves in evil and yet maintain their goodness. Then, when the situation in real life calls for them to put on the cloak of evil to stop a greater evil, they have an idea how to do it and the mental barriers in place to not allow the evil they must wrap themselves in to consume them.

By Jesse's Girl

April 30, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

“Wrap themselves in evil yet maintain their goodness”? Seriously? Please don’t procreate.

By abc

April 30, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

‘Cloak of Evil’?!

Jeff, that’s the biggest crock of sheeot I’ve heard lately. Thanks for the laugh!

Get some mental and emotional help, sir.

By Jeff

April 30, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

abc:

We all agree that murder is wrong, correct?

And yet we celebrate and honor our soldiers.

Men whose JOBS are to murder.

The question:

Are these evil men because they murder? Or are they good men who must use evil to stop a greater evil?

In other words, are they evil men, or are they good men who must put on a ‘cloak of evil’?

Note that even my term ‘cloak of evil’ isn’t new, it originated back in ancient times - certainly by the time of Augustine, though it is quite possible I saw the term in some Pauline Epistle. Regardless, the idea has been around in Christian Philosophy (and maybe even other philosophical sources) for at least a millenium or so….

By Jesse's Girl

April 30, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Unless of course you plan on spawning a super hero…..then you’re set. Cloak of evil….Oh for the love of Pete. You must be smokin’ something.

By Jesse's Girl

April 30, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Dwight K. Schrute….thats who Jeff reminds me of. Ok…now I’m laughing….

By arh

April 30, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Oh, JG-Dwight K Schrute! That’s perfect! All he needs now is a Beet Farm.

By abc

April 30, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Okay, I’ll try to reasonably respond to your post, Jeff, but after that I’m afraid I’m going to have to ignore you.

I have to presume you’ve never been in the military. I’m a veteran; let me tell you about soldiers. They’re typically of a very young age, most often straight out of high school. They aren’t pre-trained killers or anything like that; the Army’s release of a video game is not to gauge potential, but to attract youth. Period. The military indoctrination process is about brainwashing — completely tearing down your personality, rebuilding it to their own purpose, which is primarily to have a body that will follow orders. That’s what soldiers do. Follow orders, carry out instructions.

To propose that a video game is valid training in self-defense or anything military is beyond ludicrous. You portray yourself an utter fool by so saying. To propose that children somehow need to be able to shift their psyche between good and evil reveals aspects of yourself that require psychological attention. Seriously, Jeff. Your perspective is warped, and not based in reality. You may be a poster child for harm that such games can inflict.

By Jeff

April 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

abc:

My perspective is based in reality FAR moreso than yours.

Take two kids: One has played ‘violent’ video games for quite a while, the other has been raised by ‘nice’ parents who sheltered him all his life and never let him see anything that wasn’t ‘nice’.

Place said kids in a house alone at night. Stage a break-in. Watch how the kids react.

I GARAUNTEE you that the kid who has played the violent video games will hold together better and respond more effectively to the situation than the kid who has been raised ‘nice’.

By Jesse's Girl

April 30, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Dear Lord Jeff….I have tried so very hard to ignore you . And I have done a remarkable job considering the blather that you spout. But honey, I am seriously concerned for your psyche. I think you are way more messed up than I previously feared. I do not believe anything you post about your life or that you have any kind of life really. You claim expertise with damn near every topic we cover. Its bordering on compulsive. Sadly, I think you post here to feel special and listened to. Get some counseling please. In all seriousness…something is defintely not right with you dear.

By Thor

April 30, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Hi Jeff,

What age is too young for children to play Grand Theft Auto? Is 17 a good age?

By Fulton

May 1, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I think the point that many fail to realize is that good parenting continuously takes a hit as more & more negative temptations are needlessly created on a regular basis. At some point, the good parenting starts to lose out. If we collectively moved our creativity towards more positive entertainment products, we would yield more positive results. How can one simply deflect all of the responsibility on just the parents? The system must understand that the responsibility belongs to everyone.

By comp133xi7y

May 1, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

How can one simply deflect all of the responsibility on just the parents?

Because games like GTA are for adults, not children. Therefore, if children are playing them, it’s likely because the parents have failed in their responsibility.

Please understand - there is no responsibility on the part of manufacturers of grown-up entertainment to make that entertainment acceptable for children.

THAT is why the responsibility falls squarely on the parent.

Please, stop trying to police the adult world because you fear that children might occasionally venture into it.

By Fulton

May 1, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

And if you think unecessary violence as a controlled source of entertainment doesn’t affect adults, then you’re wrong there too. Not trying to police anyone, just trying to make people think with a little more depth but unfortunately, that task seems to be getting more and more difficult.

By Father Gamer

May 1, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Thor I’m a father, a gamer, and a reader…among other things. Recently played GTAIV, and also finished two John Grisham books, two historical fiction books, and a couple of other fiction titles. Don’t be so narrowminded! Each night, after my wife and son go to sleep, I spend an hour or so gaming, and an hour or so reading.

By ed

May 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

ratings are pointless. asking for id is even more pointless. they can order these games online at tons of different sites.

By JC

May 1, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

GTA IV is a game designed for adults. You have to go to the customer service counter at Best Buy to even purcahse the game.

If a child ends up playing the game the parents are at fault.

It’s much easier to place the blame on the game maker or store selling the game then actually take responsibility as a parent.

By comp133xi7y

May 1, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, Fulton…perhaps you can be more specific?

Now, help me out here. I’m a grown man with several degrees who has played violent video games his whole life. Yet, I abhor violence. I am a goll-durned liberal peace-nik who believe that few real-world problems are best solved through violence.

Yet - I’ve played every MMORPG and FPS to come out in the past 10 or so years. I love violent video games. I also know the difference between real life and a game.

So - please tell me - why am I not thinking with the DEPTH that you require?

By jimbob

May 5, 2008 5:41 AM | Link to this

GTA 4 rocks and anyone should be allowed to play it aslong if their parents agree, its just a game and I know i wanted copy whats on there. evryone should experiencethis great game!!!! cherz££££

By jimbob

May 5, 2008 5:42 AM | Link to this

GTA 4 rocks and anyone should be allowed to play it aslong if their parents agree, its just a game and I know i wont copy whats on there. evryone should experiencethis great game!!!! cherz££££

By ManOfTeal

May 6, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

This will probably not be seen by the people that need to see this but here it goes anyway:

To all the ignorant adults, pandering politicians and neglectful parents who rail against the ‘evil’ games industry for turning America’s naïve offspring into Columbine clones and sexual deviants, the answer is simple—

Don’t let your kids play this game.

Click on this link for a very intelligent and well thought out observation: http://www.gamecritics.com/gta-kids-and-parenting-in-the-videogame-age