MOMania

By FCM

March 12, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

The girl already had some genetic issue…the vaccines esclated and aggravated the issue….There is no conclusive evidence she would not have been autistic if she had never had the shots. Additionally, the mother said the kid had 9 shots in one day….I went and checked the immunization record…we got 4 at a time at most.

My nephew (the one I think has Aspburgers from non clinical observation) is FINALLY being tested for Autisim. The vaccines never seemed to make a difference in his actions at all.

Medicine is a science and is done as a practice. They go to years of school and have great knowledge—-but fictional character HOUSE shows it best….they are just guessing (at meds and diagnosis) to get it right. Granted they are HIGHLY EDUCATED guesses.

I will keep getting the shots for the kids…they do far more good than harm.

(Ok that’s 10 cents worth not 2) ;o)

By PurpleOne

March 12, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this

Something is causing it for sure…this is ‘new’ and sudden. I have a nephew that has been diagnosed with Aspburgers and is mainstream in high school now but we all remember how he all of a sudden changed at a very young age in his interaction and communication so he was not born that way!

By Gwinnett Educator

March 12, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

My brother and his wife had twin sons Feb 2000. That May, they received a clean bill of health and a round of vaccinations. Before the sun came up the next day, one of the twins was dead. The surviving twin went on to suffer a neurological decline over the next few months.

He is on that Autism spectrum and has been labeled as having PDD (if I got the acronym correct).

My brother always said, the disclaimers said that the side effects were rare (SIDS, etc) and under a certain percent..however, to a family that has lost a child, that is 100%.

So far, I have not had my daughter vaccinated. She has had only one (right after birth..it wasnt in my birth plan and I had to have an emergency C-section) If I decide to allow vaccinations, I will pick certain ones and obviously, they will be delayed.

By Mother

March 12, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Yes, something is causing an increase but that girl already had issues and the shots triggered it. There could be many other factors- having kids later in life, chemicals in our food or other environmental factors. It could be that doctors are diagnosing it more. It used to be that your child was just shy or hyper, now everyone has label. My child is getting her shots. There are too many children not getting them now and Atlanta has a lot of international residents and tourist that don’t get the shots that can expose my child to deadly diseases.

By Jesse's Girl

March 12, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

Great topic. With autism, I truly believe there is a crucial invironmental factor. People argue about how its a more common diagnosis these days and that its become an umbrella disease. But I think the big reason it seems so common is simply due to our nation’s access to quality health care. We are picking up so many pathogens and chemical components in our air, water, soil…it has an affect on us all. Autism is a developmental disorder with little to no evidence that it stems from genetics or chromosomal abnormalities. My opinion is that while there are some children whose brains are predisposed to this disorder at birth, there are just as many who “develope” it indirectly. Whether it be due to direct contamination or some cummulative effect is certainly up for debate….though I think both are equaly suspect.

As for waiting to immunize…..I don’t know. I defintely have my issues with health care in general and don’t for a nano second think that the pharmaceutical industry has anyone’s best interest at heart but their own. However, with the mass influx of immigrants from under-developed countries upon us, it scares me to NOT immunize. Its a double edged sword for me. I give my kids all these natural foods and remedies and then I allow them to have chemicals pumped into their little bodies in the name of keeping them healthy and safe. Admittedly, its out of fear. The Boy and his oldest sister are due for their annual check-ups and a shot or two. I have really been soul searching as to go through with them…..we’ll see.

By Jeff

March 12, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Well, I personally subscribe more to the genetics theory.

My dad could very well have been diagnosed with Asperger’s if they had known about it when he was a kid (back in the 60’s).

While it was never diagnosed in me, I have most of the symptoms.

It WAS diagnosed in my youngest bro.

That said, in MOST cases I’ve seen Asperger’s/ High Functioning Autism CAN be overcome with persistent hard work. If you had described Asperger’s to virtually ANYONE who knew me 15 years ago, they probably would ALL have said I had it.

If you did the same experiment with people who know me now in South GA - who never met me until about 18 months ago or more recent - NONE of them will say I have it.

But I WORKED MY TAIL OFF in late HS/college years to overcome it and live a normal life.

My youngest bro has never been forced to do that, and as a result he has shown little improvement - though he HAS learned a variety of coping skills, it is still readily apparent to ALL that he is ‘different’.

My parents let him get away with it though. The kid is probably FAR smarter than me - not something I say often about ANYONE - and yet when he wrote a scholarship essay last week, it honestly looked like something a 5th grade student would write. He graduates HS in two months, in the top 5% of his class.

So I guess my main point is this: Just like any other ‘disability’, it CAN be overcome, but the only way that will happen is with CONSISTENT HARD WORK. It aint gonna be fun, and it probably won’t be pretty, but in the end it can be DEFEATED. It is NOT the ‘death sentence’ many people think of when they hear about it.

By Jan

March 12, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

I believe the vaccinations far outweigh the questionable dangers. No one, in our generation, remembers the devastation associated with whooping cough, diptheria, measles, polio, etc., for which years of research was conducted to obtain these vaccines. There are so many other factors, both genetic and environmental to consider, that withholding childhood vaccinations as a possibility for autism seems ridiculous. I have four children and all of them were vaccinated.

By .

March 12, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Lookit…it’s clear that there should be some screening before children are vaccinated and parents then given a list of risk factors their child has.

However, NOT vaccinating your child could be equally as devastating. We aren’t vaccinating kids against minor diseases that would cause a short-term disruption in your child’s life. These are disease that could kill, maim, or disable your child. And they are more likely to happen then getting vaccine-linked autism.

So, screen yes. But don’t just NOT vaccinate.

By fk

March 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Not sure, but I think it is the preservative in the vaccinations, thimerasol (sp?), that is thought to be a trigger in autism among children who have been immunized? I have two friends with two children each. All four of their children fall under the broad autism umbrella. One friend has a 14 y/o boy and a 6 y/o daughter. She spent over a year searching for a diagnosis for her son. He was over three by the time she was able to get him into a program. Finding a pediatrician willing to listen to her concerns was a major obstacle. Her son received his immunizations on schedule. However, she spread her daughters out and did not let her get multiple vaccinations at once. Her daughter’s diagnosis was far less severe and she benefited from early intervention. She was able to get this help immediately b/c she already had a sibling diagnosed with autism. The daughter is enrolled in kindergarten and will matriculate among the general school population. They actually relocated to get their children the help they needed.

My other friend has two sons, 5 & 7. Her boys are further up on the spectrum. Neither communicate. They are not potty trained. They do not sleep thru the night. This friend is not seeing the advancements that my other friend’s daughter benefited from thru early intervention. She is constantly researching and altering diets. My friend and her husband are struggling, emotionally, physically and financially. The older boy, whose case is more severe, received his shots on schedule. Afterwards, there was a difference. I don’t think the other son has received all/any of the shots. His situation is not as bad as his brother’s, but still worse than many.

Both of my friends agree that they think there is an underlying genetic link, but that something in the environment is the trigger.

By Gwinnett Educator

March 12, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

I do agree with the screening idea. I know that after the labor i had, my daughter did encounter trauma and was under the care of a cardiologist. My spirit did not and i mean did NOT sit well with me to have her injected with whatever. She is to go back at the age of 2. If I get a clean bill of health, I will more than likely start a few vaccinations. However, I am picking these things carefully.

My brother and his wife had another child after the twins. She hasnt received any vaccinations and is in Kindergarten.

By firsttimemom

March 12, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I have a 15 month old and will be delaying her 18 month MMR shot. Until there are more definitive answers and studies to the shots, how they may trigger an underlying cause, or envirnomental factors I’ll wait. Many people believe it’s the MMR shot that “triggers” the change. My sister’s pediatrician said that State Health Offices can give the shots seperately rather than the combined shot. I haven’t called to confirm but considering that route in a few motnhs.

By Jesse's Girl

March 12, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Do any of you nurses that post here know of any reason to wait on the immunizations for The Boy who registers for Kindergarten tomorrow and our oldest girl who begins 6th grade in the fall? I am really struggling with the thought of more shots….

By parentof4

March 12, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

I fell into the area that my kids were not vaccinated on time due to God. Meaning sometimes it was life and we could not get there, but mainly it was “oh they have a cold and we cannot do it today.” I think we are giving our children too many drugs. As for the influx of travelers…my kids at those “young ages” rarely ever went to daycare or other places. Many parents today are forgetting or not able to keep their young ones home until after 6 weeks. All newborns are “fragile in their immune system which is why the doctors tell you to keep them home for 6 weeks.” The mass daycare system with all the sick kids are also causing a problem. Now they are around a lot of traverlers and they are not sick. In fact when the horrible illnesses go around the school they hardly ever catch it.

The kids can also be “over worked.” A child will be calm if it is raised in a calm environment. The more stress in the environment, the more it weakens your immune system. That includes while the mother is carring the child. We are now mainly 2 income homes with a lot of stress, given today’s financial environment, although the kids might not understand what is going on they can feel that their is stress. They inturn live in that stress also. They have found a link to mental illness to what a mother experiences while she is pregnant. This is because we are producing different hormones during stressful times.

Point is I think the Fed ruled in such a way as not to introduce a flood gate of lawsuits. But they are basically telling the CDC and all, Houston we have a problem. There is a link and before you know it, we will be able to attach this to all.

By Cindy

March 12, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Autism is a very serious life long disability. My son is a classic autistic. He was diagnosed at the age of 2. Long ago he probably would have ended up institutionalized like Dustin Hoffman in the Rain Man. Today through early intervention and other programs he is able to live at home and attend public school. Our lives have been hard but happy!

By Vicki

March 12, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

I believe Jeff is right. Looking back, I had Aspergers but not only did no one know about it at the time but I was 100% neglected & uncared for. No one would have thought of having it checked out. But I did grow up to be functioning & independent

By FCM

March 12, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

JG—this is so totaly not business but I am going to ask….With eldest daughter are you considering getting her the cervical cancer vaccine? It is not madatory (yet) but I am wondering how Mom’s of young ladies are thinking on this…..I have a few years yet—and it will likely be mandatory then—but I am garnering info now.

Thanks FCM

By Kat

March 12, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

FCM…my daughter is 16 and has had the first two doses of the cervical cancer vaccine. To me, this was an absolute no-brainer. She is not sexually active but I have to assume she will be some day, and she will be exposed not only to her partner, but to whatever he has encountered in his sexual history. The cervical cancers that are targeted by this vaccine are caused by a virus, which can be transmitted by someone who is sympton-free. I hate that this issue has become clouded by religious and moral zealots. Even if I could guarantee that my daughter would be a virgin on her wedding night, I can’t control whether her husband is. I’ve heard critics say that it’s like giving teens permission to have sex (they say the same thing about sex ed, condom distribution, etc.). I would like to ask them, how many of these teens have asked your permission to have sex? Do you really think that your approval or lack thereof will make a difference in whether or not teens you’ve never even met will have sex? No. So we might as well make it as safe for them as possible.

By Fay

March 12, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

With autism cases on the rise, I believe it may be all the chemicals in our food and the pollution in the air our children breath. Vacines may also effect some children in this way. I have a Grandson who has a form of autism and we really don’t know what caused it.

By Noelle

March 12, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

The case of the Georgia girl does not link vaccines to autism. She had an underlying condition that may have caused an adverse reaction to the vaccinations. As with any type of medication, some people may have adverse reactions to a vaccine. (The case of twins described in a previous comment is another example.) That does not prove any kind of general problem with vaccines.

I don’t think any child should receive five vaccines at once, though, which is what happened with this girl. That’s likely to overload anyone’s immune system. I’d like to see a limit of 3 vaccines at a time.

Most current vaccines have been used for many decades, but the increase in autism diagnoses is more recent. Any supposed link with thimerosal was disproven by a study in California where autism cases continued to increase at the same rate after thimerosal was removed from the vaccines.

The fact is, children are much, much more likely to be harmed by the diseases for which vaccines provide protection than they are to be harmed by the vaccines. I’m not a parent, but if I were, I wouldn’t want to take the risk of my child contracting a deadly disease that could have been easily prevented. Would you be able to forgive yourself if your unvaccinated child died of tetanus or whooping cough, or was paralyzed by polio?

By Kim

March 12, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

FCM: The findings from a federal study were released this week, showing that 26 percent of American female teens have at least one sexually transmitted disease. Because some sexually transmitted infections can cause infertility and cancer, U.S. health officials called for better screening, vaccination and prevention. The teens were tested for four of the most common infections: human papilloma virus, or HPV, which can cause cervical cancer and affected 18 percent of the teens studied; chlamydia, which affected 4 percent; trichomoniasis, 2.5 percent; and genital herpes, 2 percent.

By Jeff

March 12, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Kim:

• human papilloma virus, or HPV, which can cause cervical cancer and affected 18 percent of the teens studied*

Key word being CAN. A pencil CAN kill you, but I don’t see a move to have kids never again touch a pencil….

By Jesse's Girl

March 12, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately…yes FCM, I will be making an appt for that one. As good of a mother I am and as great a kid as she is….I have no dillusions that I can control her actions or that of anyone she chooses to have a relationship with. But I am doing tons of research on it to make sure these pharm. companies aren’t crying chicken little. They are in it for the money…not my family’s health. I also have no dillusions about that.

By Lynn

March 12, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

FCM - my daughter will be 17 this year and I just can not decide whether to get her vaccine or not. Her pediatrician is pushing for it but I just can’t make the call yet. I too would be interested in hearing from other teen moms regarding this issue.

By Virginia

March 12, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

My grandson is austic. He was not diagnosed until 3 but demonstrated symptoms at 20 months. I think genetics may play a part and I believe environment can aggravate, BUT entirely too many children are diagnosed around 18 months for vaccines to not be looked at as a significant contributor to this horrible problem. Doctors give multiple vaccines to children at the same time because they are afraid moms will not bring chilren back week after week to obtain separate injections. Moms should make educated decisions as to whether their child needs all these shots on one day or if they can schedule several visits. My son and daughter in law have spent enormous amounts of both time and money (including home schooling)to enable my grandson to be where he is today—a well-educated, intelligent child with a keen sense of humor who, for the most part, acts like a normal 10 year old.

By Jeff

March 12, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Oh, and another thing (and I know I’m going to get flamed for this one):

How about you ask her DAD’s opinions about it before you go off and do this? After all, no matter what moms think, the DAD has JUST as much right to a say in how his child is raised/ what medical procedures should be done on his child as the mom. (And yes, that includes in cases of divorce. She is still his kid, even if you are no longer his wife.)

By Katie

March 12, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

My daughter recieved most of her vaccinations with the exception of the MMR and the chickenpox vaccine. She will NOT get the MMR until she starts school (if even then!). I’m a firm believe in not injecting foreign substances into a tiny body and I am not going to risk taking my perfectly normal child and turning her into a mentally handicapped trapped two year old because of a vaccination.

Regarding the cervical cancer vaccine; I was a teenage mom when my daughter was born and I am NOT going to allow her to have that vaccine- and even if I did, there wouldn’t be any way in the worl di would tell her what it was for. I feel like that vaccine is going to promote sexual promiscuity and give a false sense of “safety”. If we teach our children about the right time and circumstances to begin sexual relations and be open and honest with them, thats all the preventative medicine we need.

By mary

March 12, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

This is irresponsible journalism at its best (or worst).

The CDC tells us not to worry about vaccines causing autism, yet the federal government is settling a lawsuit with a local Georgia family who believes vaccines were a factor in their daughter’s autism.

NO!!! Their daughter was NOT AUTISTIC. She had “autism-like symptoms” but her medical problem was a genetic condition.

PLEASE stop spreading misinformation about vaccines and autism. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that vaccines cause autism. Every study on this subject has disproven any link.

By Jesse's Girl

March 12, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Well Katie…in a perfect world, yes. But what about the odd occurance of a guy forcing himself on her? What about peer pressure? I absolutely plan to give my daughters..and son for that matter…every weapon I have in my parenting arsenal to fight off the evils of peer pressure and to hopefully allow them to recognize a bad relationship when they encounter one. But you are fooling yourself if you think all it takes is solid parenting to keep your baby from harm or bad choices. I do not plan to tell my daughter about the intent of this vaccination. I am not certain right now that I will even allow her to have it. But I am experienced enough in life, love and parenting to know that honest communication is not the only weapon I will need.

By mary

March 12, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Katie - *Regarding the cervical cancer vaccine; I was a teenage mom when my daughter was born and I am NOT going to allow her to have that vaccine- and even if I did, there wouldn’t be any way in the worl di would tell her what it was for. I feel like that vaccine is going to promote sexual promiscuity and give a false sense of “safety”. If we teach our children about the right time and circumstances to begin sexual relations and be open and honest with them, thats all the preventative medicine we need. *

Really? You would rather your daughter get cervical cancer as “punishment” for having sex?

Are you aware that there is no way for a man to know that he has HPV, so it is very possible that a MONOGAMOUS MARRIED ADULT WOMAN can contract HPV?

By Kim

March 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Oh Jeff, your pencil analogy is so apt. So if smoking CAN cause cancer, there’s no big move to quit smoking??? The problem with this particular vaccine is that it re: sex & talking about sex is so taboo in this country, you’d rather our girls/women DIE than learn about sex ed in schools or get a vaccine that has been tested & shows prevention! I would be $500 that you voted for the worst president ever, twice. That dim-bulb & his abstinence-only sex ed.

By Theresa

March 12, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Mary — I am not saying vaccines cause autism — I am asking parents how they reconcile the differing information that is out there. As far as whether the little girl in the story is autistic —here is a quote from the story that makes it pretty clear — “…Jon and Terry Poling, said the government’s concession in the case will help pay for the numerous therapists and other medical experts their autistic child needs — now and for the rest of her life.”

By Jeff

March 12, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Ya know what else shows prevention???

Same thing (and only thing) that is 100% effective in preventing pregnancy:

Keeping your legs shut.

Oh, and the worst President ever wasn’t alive when I was. Learn American History. Bush is nowhere NEAR the worst ever. He aint the saint the GOP thinks he is, but he ain’t the worst we’ve had. (BTW, that would be an easy $500 for me. I was too young the first time (by 2 months), and regardless the only reason I supported him both times in November was because the other guy was a complete imbecile. Same reason I’ll be voting for McCain this year if I don’t get fed up and write in Ron Paul.

Question: Why are schools even TEACHING sex ed? That is the PARENT’s job in the first place.

By Jennifer

March 12, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

I have 2 children with autism, and one child without. The only common factor between the 2 with autism is their exposure to the MMR vaccine before the age of 2. My first child had a reaction to the MMR vaccine, which made us delay that vaccine for the 2nd child. That was our plan as well with the 3rd child, but I was given the MMR vaccine in the hospital as my rubella titers were low, and that vaccine crossed into my milk when I nursed the baby.

Having said that, I do not believe that autism is caused solely by the mercury or other preservatives in the vaccines. I think for some people with a genetic predisposition, they cannot handle the assault to the immune system that comes from getting 6-7 different virus vaccines at one time. Remember, MMR is 3 vaccines. DTaP is also 3 vaccines. Either of those is typically given with a polio vaccine, a Hepatitis B vaccine, a Hib vaccine, Chicken Pox, and whatever else has come along since my children were babies. My youngest (with autism) was given a DTaP vaccine at the age of 5 and she did not speak for days afterward. Was it something in the vaccine? Was it the immune system assault she was experiencing in those days? Was it something else entirely?

I wish we had the answers to what is causing autism. Perhaps it is not just one thing. Perhaps it is different things for different individuals. Maybe one day we will know for sure.

By Kim

March 12, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Oh to be a white man & full of anger AND also know everything there is to know.

By Jesse's Girl

March 12, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Can we NOT turn this into yet another political/religious/morality rant? That’d be great.

By FCM

March 12, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks! I am not opposed to the vaccine from a moral standpoint. I was looking at it more from this is new who/what/why etc….and is it a no brainer like ‘polio’ or one that needs to be thought and discussed with the child…..I can tell her at 9 sorry your getting it….or I can wait and see….that’s pretty much where my thinking is

I have similar thinking on Birth Control…..that would be a great topic…..when do you go talk to your daughter about going on the pill? I am still at the basics of ‘sex talk’ with her…and eventually she will know that if she chooses to have sex condoms are a must (no diseases please)….and yes Mom adhered to that one herself. Anyway seems like a good topic I need to think on before she walks in and says…..This is Billy, the condom broke, I don’t have an STD but I have a baby on the way…….AGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH Now I having nigh terrors in the daytime!!!

By Allison Burnes

March 12, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

The world of autism is poorly understood. It is suffering a plague of urban legends, fear mongering and quick fix enthusiasts that want an easy answer to a cryptic disorder. As a special education teacher. A mother of an autistic child and someone who has done extensive research, I can tell you the following: 1)Vaccinate your child. If your child is truly autistic he/she has been so from the womb. 2) Environment plays a huge role in addressing or complicating autism, it does not cause autism. Environment can cause symptoms similar to autism in behavior but the treatment is different as are the expectations. 3)The brain is wired as the brain is wired as the brain is wired. Good nutrition, appropriate stimuli and proper education will result in the developing and strengthening neural pathways for processing. Those things will not rewire the brain. Individuals with autism may have to pave some mental back roads to get to the same destination access on a neurological superhighway in other kids but they can get there eventually. Just don’t set a time of arrival. It will happen when it happens. 3)There are no quick fixes. It is a lifetime of work. Everyone will feel sorry for themselves and their child. It is ok to have a pity party but don’t live there. 4) The increase in identification is due to a) an increase in the birth of disabled individuals, b) the recognition of autism as a disability c)the rush to get borderline kids stuffed under the umbrella so that they can get services no other label would cover. Lets face it. People are marrying and reproducing that wouldn’t have dreamed of getting a date 30 or 40 years ago. Then they would have been tolerated but not considered mate material. We are victims of our own campaign for acceptance and compassion. We found out what awesome people there are behind disabilities so we marry them and have kids. Of course the result is more kids with disabilities.

As for the Georgia family. They sued because the vaccines were proven to have made existing conditions worse. The fact is that autism is only one of many disorders the child had. It got the most press because it is the buzz word and it was much more exciting to say that the vaccines caused autism than to say that the child had multiple disabilities and that after the vaccines her medical and behavioral issues were much worse. You don’t have to be autistic for bad medicine to have serious consequences. Talk to the families of the people who died because Acutane sent them over an emotional cliff.

Autism is a disorder that is finally being dealt with openly and somewhat productively. It is completely normal for society to want a whipping boy for something that was so effectively ignored for so long. Get over it. Take your autistic child, student, neice, nephew and quit trying to find someone to blame. Just love them and fight for the greatest opportunities life can give them.

My son was diagnosed at three. I was told to institutionalize him. He is now 19 and in college. By the way. He was vaccinated but we already knew he was “different” long before that.

Blessed by my children

By FCM

March 12, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

@ Jeff….her Dad’s comment on her having sex was “Sex is a beautiful thing. I think when she decides she is old enough to have it, be at 15 or 40, it will be a wonderful experience for her.”

In case I have not expressed this enough I had brain damage when I said ‘I do’

By Brian

March 12, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

This is a very tough subject for me. I have always been a big proponent of vaccines but after having our son struggle with Autistic type behaviors after getting a vaccine shot at 3 I have modified my position somewhat.

We have worked very hard to help our child back and he is doing amazingly well with some ways yet to go.

The fact that autism diagnoses have risen from 1 in 200,000 about 20 years ago to 1 in 150 today is not by chance. What is cuasing it unfortunately I don’t think any scientist or doctor can say for certain. I think Vaccines do play a role, though I hardly think they are the only cause of this. The autism spectrum is much wider now so there is a higher rate of diagnses and frankly I think there are likely a number of environmental factors that play a role.

I do believe that for a majority of kids vaccines will be fine and cause no problems. I also now believe that there is a seubset of kids (those with less functional immune systems) where having the full schedule of vaccines could act as a trigger.

What I believe needs to be done is try to find a screening test that would help in determining if a child would be susceptible.

Second, much better studies need to be done. In some ways the CDC studies are designed to fail. They never test what happens with multiple vaccinations at the same time despite their being a number of those. Sometimes the timeframes aren’t appropriate in the studies. There are studies out there that do suggest - but do not prove a link. Alot more testing needs to be done to truly rule in or rule out vaccines as a trigger.

Third, we need to take a serious look at the vaccine schedule. We are now taking over 30 vaccines in a realtively small tiem period - is this smart? Do we really need to be taking 30+ vaccines? Are we vaccinating for diseases that are quite frankly not life threatening or really needed. Should we reexamine the schedule and how often and when vaccines should be given?

There has been a ton of good that has come from vaccines, but I now believe there have been some downsides as well. We have probably gone overboard in vaccinating our country.

My suggestions would be to vaccinate but do it smartly. First, never get more than 1 vaccine at a time. MMR, DPT, can all be taken as individual doses, not in combination. Always look to see or get copies of both the information on the bottle of the vaccine as well as the packaging to verify what is actually in it. Third, try to space out the vaccines as much as you can.

Both my wife and I were vaccine proponents, though not surprisingly, after our son’s reaction we haven’t had him have any in the last year and a half as we worked to simply get him back to normal. Our daughter, who is 13 now didn’t have any problems with her vaccines, so it shows you how each child is an individual and can react differently to the same medicine.

By Lisa

March 12, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Here’s my two-cents worth on both the Cervical Cancer vac. and the autism issue:

Cervical Cancer Vac. has nothing to do with teen sex. I work with many teen girls and trust me they know the difference between cancer and birth control. When questioned they all knew that the vac wasn’t a protection from pregnancy or a STD. If your child doesn’t understand that difference then you have a bigger issue than the decision on this vac. As for my daughter, I teach abstinence and as a volunteer with teen moms, she sees up close the devastation that can accompany teen pregnancy. I chose to not hide her from that reality hoping that if she never knew teens had sex, she’d never have it. Instead, I chose to show her what happens with teen pregnancy. She has seen the struggles, heartache, physical exhaustion and lost dreams. For those of you who believe that this vac will promote teen sex then explain that it is a way to keep her safe from cervical cancer. Just leave the sex part out. As someone else pointed out (very well too) what if your daughter were raped by someone who carried HPV? What if your 28 year old daughter married a groom who wasn’t abstinent as a teen and unknowingly has HPV? In those two cases, you’d be glad she was protected.

As for autism and vacs., basically there has been no compelling widespread scientific data to prove or to disprove any issues except the Thermisol (mercury component in previous vacs) one (doesn’t cause autism). So many of you have written about the genetic component with a trigger that could be the vac. While that is a possibility, we just don’t know for certain. We do know for certain what whopping cough and polio can do. As for the increase in autism, I want to point out that the early screening tools and medical intervention we have now is so much better that we may simply be recognizing autistic children now. It could be that for centuries we’ve had the same rate of autism, it was just undiagnosed or misdiagnosed as another illness.

I also want to point out that with early childhood development, many illnesses don’t appear until a developmental stage is missed. Ex. So you may not realize your child has a disorder which disrupts her ability to walk until she gets to that stage. I’m always weary of reports that a child was fine until the vac shot. While I do think some children may have experienced such a quick turn, many others may have just reached a milestone marker where the illness can be now be seen.

As a parent, we have tough choices to make and if you have a family history of autism or high risk factors, you should work with a MD to create a vac plan that will work for your family. Just please don’t give up on vacs altogether. Your child’s life is in danger from those illnesses.

I pray for those suffering from all forms of autism - it is a battle daily for the child you love so much.

By HTH

March 12, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I have a son with pervasive developmental disorder (PDD)it falls under the autism umbrella. He is now 15 and through a lot of consistency, good parenting, routine, reading and understanding autism, taekwondo, and EMDR (eye movement desensitization reintegration-used to treat PTSD normally) My son has had huge changes. Now that I have educated myself on his diagnosis, I have discovered a couple of things. It is the “mercury type” preservative in the vaccines that is believed to be the culprit. If using a single dose vial, the preservative is not needed, only the multi dose vials are the issue. Also, amalgam (silver) type fillings should be avoided as they also contain mercury. “They” tell you there is little risk in amalgam fillings but I don’t believe it. My son is flourishing now. I really believe that the EMDR (google it)was like magic and helped him form new neural pathways previously interrupted. It just requires a headset and a practitioner who knows the therapy, no pills, no bloodwork, nothing but a rhythmic auditory pattern through the headset. He wasn’t treated with EMDR because he was autistic, he had anger issues and now they are GONE.

I don’t know if his vaccines contributed to his autism, possibly…There is a genetic component as 2 of his cousins have Asperger’s. Having a mildly autistic child has helped me to be a better parent to my children. He is a blessing despite the frustrations and hard work.

By Been There

March 12, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Actually, the children have a great deal in common — it’s called DNA!

”**By Jennifer

March 12, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

I have 2 children with autism, and one child without. The only common factor between the 2 with autism is their exposure to the MMR vaccine before the age of 2 **”

By Lisa

March 12, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

To Allison Burnes…

Thank you! Your post was wonderful. You summed it up better than any of us so far.

Bless you!

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

I personally feel this is multi-faceted. I do believe that environmental chemicals play a part in cancer and other disorders. Did anyone read (yesterday? perhaps) that prescribed medications are showing up in our water supply? Apparantly when people who take meds excrete them (through urine) the waste water is being treated and turned into drinking water. THere is no known way (besides reverse osmosis-which is expensive and not very practical) to rid water of these meds (at this time). Sex hormones, cholesterol meds, BP meds, etc. are showing up all over the U.S. They have always been there, but no one has been testing for them until recently. I believe that it is quite plausible for something like this to affect humans. What about all the chemicals in the environment that we are exposed to everyday like pesticides, plastics, etc.

Just something to think about.

By momof4

March 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

I have twin sons, 21 months, that were just labeled with Autism Spectrum Disorder. It definitely unnerves me that the government pushes these vaccines, yet no one can say whether or not they lead to autism. Now, with early intervention, we’re running into roadblocks in getting help for my boys. It makes me irrate to think the government pushes these vaccines on parents/children, yet will not help them when they are possibly adversly affected by them. Personally, I believe there is a genetic component (altough there is NO history of any neurological issues in my family or my husband’s) and something triggers it. Whether it be the vaccines, food additives, or anything else in the environment. Maybe we’ll never know, but the CDC or whoever really needs to be researching this so parents can feel secure and safe vaccinating their children. I no longer do.

By CDog

March 12, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

If you want to vaccinate your child, you should be free to do so. Currently, no law exists that would prohibit you from doing that. However, on the flip side, if you do not want to vaccinate your child, you should not be forced to do so. Currently, many laws exist which force parents to do this. Every tyranny results from laws that are passed whose justification is in the notion that “it is what is best for you,” or “it is for the children.”

By Stacey

March 12, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

It sounds strange, but with vaccines, it seems that having a preemie worked in my favor because his neonatologist altered his vaccination schedule. For the first couple of years, his vaccination schedule looked like the NCAA playoff schedule. :-) Fortuanately, we have an excellent pediatrian that I trust to make those decisions that I, despite my research, don’t feel completely qualified to make.

Regarding the HPV vaccine, my sisters and I had this conversation just a couple of weeks ago. One sister and I just have a son and the other has two daughters (14 & 11). A commercial came on while we were sitting there (the “I want to be one less” commercial) and sister A commented that she needed to call (11 y.o) pediatrician to see when she should schedule the appt (14 y.o. got the vaccine last year). Sister B was appalled that A would even consider the vaccine because as others stated, she felt it gives the girls “a license” to have sex. Sister B told her that if her daughter is ignorant enough (her words) to think that way, it would be all the more reason to do anything she can to protect her. I agree with B that anyone who thinks like that will not choose abstinence anyway. JMO

By Magenta

March 12, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

I knew a couple some years ago who were in their very late 30s and had a child in 1991 - the year where autism began to spike. He had the vaccines recommended at the time, including the MMR. However, both parents worked. They did not want him in day care, they wanted him “safe” at home, so they hired a daytime sitter and gave instruction that he was not to be taken outside (again, not “safe,” but kept in their small apartment where he spent pretty much the ENTIRE DAY watching “Barney” tapes and a limited number of TV shows, because they were educational and not a “bad influence.” No one noticed any problem until the child turned 3 and was enrolled in preschool. While my friends assumed their child would immediately test out as “gifted,” they were shocked and dismayed to be told that he had PDD and autism-like features. He had zero social skills and was rejected by a series of preschools. I stopped being friends with this couple when their son was about 5, because of their off-the-wall behavior and extreme reactions to this news about their child. So it will never really be known what caused the problem, or what they may have done to overcome it. There were too many factors, including IMO, their odd ideas about how to raise a child “safely.”

By Stella

March 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

“yet no one can say whether or not they lead to autism.”

Actually, yes, they CAN say that they do NOT lead to autism. There are many, many studies that say there is NO LINK AT ALL between autism and vaccines.

People need to learn the difference between causation and correlation. Yes, many children are diagnosed with autism around the same time they get vaccines. But guess what - that’s because BOTH of those events happen to fall around the same age.

It’s like saying that ice cream cones causes drownings because both of them increase in the summer.

By Stella

March 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Actually, there is just as much evidence that television exposure causes autism as there is that vaccines cause autism. Infant and small children’s brains are extremely malleable at this age while they organize themselves, and repeated exposure to two-dimensional stimulation and one-way interaction could very likely do serious harm to these developing brains.

Could it be that the reason autism is so rare in Amish society is not because of the vaccines but rather because of the lack of television?

By FCM

March 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Stella, while I think your conclusion about the lower autism in Amish children is probably on target, at this point the TV arguement is still a correlation….prior to this age babies aren’t able to focus on a TV or still for Barney.

Again I think your on the $$$ and the Pediactric Assoc certainly says TV before age 5 is bad,bad,bad…..my children still are limited to the amount of TV they can watch in a day….also as to what they can watch.

There have been links found between ADHD and TV…..not 100% sure if they are correlative or causal links.

Certainly all the things we have discussed have bearing on the situation.

As to the water having drugs in it….prior to water treatment facilities…things like typhoid were spread through water supply….I will take trace amounts of drugs in the water over that any day……I know that was not the point of that post…but it was the first thing I thought of when I heard the story yesterday.

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

First of all, I have and will take the risk to keep my children from coming down with serious and sometimes fatal diseases.

I understand that some parents don’t agree with vaccines. I urge those who disagree with vaccines to look back 40-50 years ago when children were crippled with polio and died from small pox. Statistically, children can die from chicken pox as well as many other “childhood” diseases. Today’s immunizations have kept many of these diseases at bay. Many parents don’t hear much about them and wonder if their child really need all those immunizations. If everyone were to object and not immunize their children, I guarantee that the incidences would start to rise again. You don’t hear many kkids with mumps or wwhopping cough because most kids receive the vaccines.

By CDC Website

March 12, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

There is soooo much misconception about the HPV Vaccine (not a cervical cancer vaccine).

First, incidence of HPV is HIGH -(Incidence of HPV infection in college women studied for two to three years was 32–43% (21;28). Other studies assessing populations of women using routine gynecological or family planning services found incidences of 11–32% in one year, and 44–55% in three years (29;31;33;35;36). The incidence of high-risk types, such as HPV-16, is higher than the incidence of low-risk types (28;29;31). For example, in one study, the incidence in one year was 32% for high-risk HPV types compared with 18% for low-risk HPV types (29).).

Second, HPV is the cause of 70% of cervical cancers. Do you really want to leave things up to chance here? Even if your lily-white daughter only has sex with ONE man…she can still get it from him. He won’t get cervical cancer…she will.

Lastly, not ALL HPV is sexually transmitted. Some are not STDs.

Check out CDC

And Jeff…SHUT UP with the “keep your legs shut” crap.

Women and girls are human beings and they are just as sexual as the OTHER half of the human race. So shut up about what WOMEN should do and start preaching to YOUR choir.

By CDC Website

March 12, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Oh, and those references, etc, I believe arein the link I provided…

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

@Kat- I wholeheartedly agree with your 11:02 post. Very well spoken. I couldn’t have said it better. You bet I will sign my daughter up for it. I will probably wait just a couple more years (daughter will be 11 in June) to make sure there are no serious side effects. I don’t anticipate that there will be, so I am planning on getting that for her.

I don’t know if this will one day become available or recommended for boys. If it does, I will sign my son up too.

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

@ Jeff- I really try to ignore your ignorant and inflammatory comments. I am referring specifically to your 11:22 post, but pretty much all of your posts fit this description. I suspect I am not the only one who feels that way. Just my opinion.

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

I am really surprised at all those folks who are not educated in the HPV dept. I suppose it must be a “southern thang” to keep one’ head in the sand. Why would anyone think that getting a vaccine to help reduce the incidence of cervical cancer would send a message that it’s ok to have sex?

I like to view this as why would I as a mother NOT want to protect my child from the possibility of cervical cancer? Like others before me have posted, you daughter may have sex only once AFTER she gets married, but if her husband has it, he can spread it to her. Being a L&D nurse, I know of situations where women have been yearly for their pap smear and cervical cancer didn’t show up until the advanced stages. Something to think about!

By Sandy_G

March 12, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

I have a brother who was born in 1974 that we believe has an Autism-spectrum disorder called Asperger’s Syndrome. When he was little, and when he went to school, my mother asked the Special Education teacher if he could be mildly Autistic, but the teacher said, “no, there’s no such thing as mild Autism, you either are or your aren’t.” That was the prevailing wisdom at the time and so, I’m sure many, many children with Autism-spectrum disorders went undiagnosed or were labeled as “slow” or “learning disabled” instead of Autistic.

This is one of the reasons that Autism-related disorders seem to be on the rise, just better and more accurate diagnosis. Is there an environmental link? None has ever been proven. Nor has any of over 40 different studies ever proven a link to vaccines or the preservative Thimerasol. The fact is that recent discoveries have found a gene marker for Autism and have found that Autistic children have different brain functions from birth that are visible in brain scans.

One study has linked higher rates of Autism to parents who are older when they have children, so there’s a lot that could be going on here to cause the many different disorders that are now lumped under the category of Autism.

Not to vaccinate your children is foolhardy and it puts other children at risk as well. The more children who are walking around unvaccinated, the greater the chance that a virus like Polio can be transmitted to others. It’s not fair to your kids and it’s not fair to other kids.

By nurse&mother

March 12, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Oops looks like I needed to proof my last post:-)

JG- I don’t know of any reason that you shouldn’t vaccinate your son or daughter. My daughter will be in 6th grade too. I will probably get those done soon because she will go to camp in June. Might as well get those in now, so they have time to start protecting her.

I think we need another chicken pox and a Tetanus/Diptheria? I will also get her the meningococcal. I think that one is not required until college, but I would like her to have this since she will be in close proximity others ( a dorm like situation). Meningitis is more likely to affect teens too.

By lewis

March 12, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

There are repeated reputable studies showing no link between vaccines and autism. That children “suddenly” develop autism seems less likely than that the subtler manifestations become more apparent as the child fails to progress normally. As for numbers being diagnosed it seems that more attention is being paid to the various degrees of autism that appear, including the less severe forms traditionally diagnosed in the past. More attention means more cases identified in the society by professionals who have learned what to look for. This has been true of other diseases and disorders, not just autism. ADHD, for instance. And there will always be families who cannot accept that the misfortune of autism happened without blaming someone for it. That it was simply a terrible misfortune is almost too much to bear. With genetic advances we will likely see autism eliminated one day or at least identified very early in pregnancy so treatment can begin much earlier.

By DB

March 13, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this

I guess I’m what you call an “early adopter” — my daughter was among the first to get the varicella vaccine 12-13 years ago, and when they offered the Gardasil vaccine (cervical cancer), we took that, too. Why wouldn’t someone take every available precaution to avoid cervical cancer? Have you ever SEEN anyone die of cancer?

I’m trying to wrap my brain around the idea that a vaccine that helps prevent a form of cancer is also a free pass to sex. WTH?!? I must confess that it never occurred to me that getting a shot could be construed as “Yah! Now I can go out and bang every guy I meet in a wild frenzy of sex!”

Fear of pregnancy, STIs and a well-defined sense of self-respect and moral grounding are far more immediate and effective deterrents to casual sex than a vaccine. If you think your daughter is going to take a Gardasil shot as a license to “party hardy”, then the Gardasil vaccine is the least of your problems.

By JPat

March 13, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Great info here. As a dad, I’m in a bit of a dillema. Taking the advice of a highly paid certified MD, who is nowhere near a highly paid certified MD, (My mother-in-law), my wife chooses to not vaccinate our 6 month old…AT ALL….period. This makes absolutely no sense to me & it seems like I have no say at all in the matter, (which is totally another blog altogether). My thing is, we & all the other people & kids in our families were vaccinated & turned out just fine. Why is this such an urgent issue now?

Could be too much Oprah/News/mother in-law, I don’t know.

While I personally believe there could be a trigger with the preservatives or what-not, I think there is a greater risk when the child is behind on his/her vaccination schedule & now has to play catch-up & recieve all these shots at once.

Who knows?

By Penguinmom

March 13, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I believe some of the large increase in teh percentage of children with diagnosed with autism is because the parameters have gotten so large. I know several people who have children with Aspergers syndrome. Had you ever even heard of that until a couple of years ago? Now, its a fairly common things.

In the past, these kids are ones who might have been just been seen as socially awkward, possibly ADHD in some cases, painfully shy in others. But they wouldn’t have been ‘diagnosed’ with autism.

I would be curious what the percentage increase of new autism cases would be based on previous diagnosing standards. (Similar to stating spending changes adjusted for inflation.) Are we truly seeing a significant increase in the number of severe autism cases? or are we seeing an increase in the breadth of the definition of autism, covering even very mild cases?

Both of the kids I mentioned are fully functioning, have friends, and I fully expect them to be fully functioning adults.

By workingmom

March 13, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

For those parents of teenagers still debating whwther your daughter should get the HPV virus - Never mind! You are too late. They must have the vaccine BEFORE they are sexually active and, trust me, at age 17 you are too late.