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DEL.ICIO.USWhy do kids lie?
New research reveals a majority of teens are lying (often) and learning it from their parents.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A Penn State researcher, Nancy Darling, wanted to discover why kids lie and how often they are doing it. She and some undergraduate students interviewed local high school students at a pizza joint. They discovered through their research that 98 percent of the teens reported lying to their parents. Their finding was consistent with other national research.
A recent (long, but worth your time) article in New York magazine offers amazing insight into why kids lie and where they learn the skill.
Here are a few highlights from the article (Here’s the whole article):
“It starts very young. Indeed, bright kids—those who do better on other academic indicators—are able to start lying at 2 or 3. ‘Lying is related to intelligence,’ explains Dr. Victoria Talwar, an assistant professor at Montreal’s McGill University and a leading expert on children’s lying behavior.”
“… A child who is going to lie must recognize the truth, intellectually conceive of an alternate reality, and be able to convincingly sell that new reality to someone else. Therefore, lying demands both advanced cognitive development and social skills that honesty simply doesn’t require.”
“The truth, according to Talwar, is that kids grow into it. In studies where children are observed in their natural environment, a 4-year-old will lie once every two hours, while a 6-year-old will lie about once every hour and a half. Few kids are exceptions.”
(Four-year-olds most often lie to avoid punishment, the article reports.)
“By the time a child reaches school age, the reasons for lying become more complex. Avoiding punishment is still a primary catalyst for lying, but lying also becomes a way to increase a child’s power and sense of control—by manipulating friends with teasing, by bragging to assert status, and by learning he can fool his parents.”
“The most disturbing reason children lie is that parents teach them to. According to Talwar, they learn it from us. ‘We don’t explicitly tell them to lie, but they see us do it. They see us tell the telemarketer, ‘I’m just a guest here.’ They see us boast and lie to smooth social relationships.’ ”
“Consider how we expect a child to act when he opens a gift he doesn’t like. We instruct him to swallow all his honest reactions and put on a polite smile.”
So what should parents do?
“According to Talwar, parents need to teach kids the worth of honesty, just like George Washington’s father did, as much as they need to say that lying is wrong.”
“Ironically, the type of parents who are actually most consistent in enforcing rules are the same parents who are most warm and have the most conversations with their kids,” Darling observes. They’ve set a few rules over certain key spheres of influence, and they’ve explained why the rules are there. They expect the child to obey them. Over life’s other spheres, they supported the child’s autonomy, allowing them freedom to make their own decisions.”
The researchers also found that parents should allow their teens to disagree and argue with them. While parents saw this as destructive to the relationship, teens saw it as getting a chance to argue their case, which in turn made them less likely to lie.
Do you think your kids and teens lie? How often? How often do you lie? Do you tell the little white lies that don’t seem to matter but apparently influence our children to lie? Will this research influence you to change your parenting in regards to lying?
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By JustMe
March 6, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
Why do kids lie? Because they can - and get away with it. Today, parents are so uninvolved that they don’t have the time/patience/care enough to even find out if it is a lie. Even if they find out it is a lie, all they do is tell the kid ‘don’t lie.’ Yeah, that’ll work.
By GT81
March 6, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this
They are copying adults, especially politicians.
By FCM
March 6, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this
I do think kids (especially mine) lie. I think its because several things….I mean mine caught rehanded will do it to avoid being in trouble—-nevermind that they compound the trouble with the lie…if kids who lie are intelligent they are ‘stupid’ when it comes to that equation.
They may lie because they do not understand the truth….I know a child who never saw her father, she decided he was dead…and told people this….to this child’s mind the only reason her dad wasn’t around ws he was dead (that was better than her dealing with the rejection).
One of my children told everyone her Mom (me) had NEVER been married (I think child was about 3)….I asked why she said that….child did not understand the word ‘divorce’ other than it meant that I was not married…she couldn’t remember anytime her father lived in the house with me, so to her mind I had never been married.
I do not think ‘young’ children lie to be malicious….certainly that changes as they get older….I do think ALL people lie to keep from being in trouble.
Test case: go ask your spouse if you look like you put on weight!
By Vicki
March 6, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this
JustMe - Involved parents can have children that lie. Do they like it and put up with it? NO!
Remind us again, do you have children? If you do, have they ever lied to you? If you don’t have children, are you basing you opinion on the kids you teach?
By Vicki
March 6, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
JustMe - Involved parents can have children that lie. Do they like it and put up with it? NO!
Remind us again, do you have children? If you do, have they ever lied to you? If you don’t have children, are you basing you opinion on the kids you teach?
By TRG
March 6, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this
My children are 25, 23 and 22 years old. My husband and I could not figure why the kids were always lying when they were younger. All this time we thought that they were just bad and disrespectful. When they were just displaying their intelligence. :} Because my husband and I constantly challenged them with their lies they worked harder to enhance their lying skills. My husband knew they were lying based on the lie itself. I knew they were lying based on how it was being told and looking at the child while the lie was being told. Together we were always on top of all lies and quick to bring them to light and correct them. Little did we know that we were empowering them to become better liars. They could lie to us today but we probably would not notice because they have mastered the lying game. :{
By robo
March 6, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Parents today are so willing to step out of their kid’s life entirely and be their “friend” instead of their parent, lying children comes as no surprise.
It is easy to lie to a friend, not so easy to lie to a real parent.
Plus, there are the friend/wannabe parents that react to children’s extortion by buying them stuff, so they will not bother the friend/wannabe parents self-absorbed existence. “Go play the new video game, or the computer in your room we gave you for finally making that “C” in history, and leave me alone, so I can watch HBO. Maybe your mother will talk to you, once she gets back from her liposuction appointment.”
By Scooter
March 6, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
Why do kids lie? Well, for the same reasons anyone lies; to gain an advantage, duh!
By josh
March 6, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
Robo you’re and idiot!
By Stacey
March 6, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
Kids lie because they are human. Anyone who says they don’t lie is a liar. It has nothing to with bad parenting. My son lies to avoid punishment, to “impress”, to avoid hurting someone’s feeling, etc. His lies are usually believable and I he often fesses up without me suspecting a thing. Just yesterday he told me that while they were running in the gym he ran so fast that he became invisible (Jimmy Neutron did it on a episode the other day). My response was “REALLY! WOW!” He came back a few minutes later and said “Mommy, I wasn’t really invisible but I did beat everyone I was racing against”. I gave him a “High 5” and told him “Good Job!”
By robo
March 6, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Scooter,
Let me guess, your mom is TRG.
It’s great knowing folks like you posess such high moral fiber from such great friend/wannabe parenting. I am sure you were also an excellent “D” average student too. TRG probably gave you a beamer for barely passing 11th grade.
By robo
March 6, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Josh,
So, which are you, a fiend/wannabe parent, or the result of such fine upbringing????
By Stacey
March 6, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Yes, I lie. When I went to a relative’s house for dinner Sunday and when I finished eating I said everything was delicious. Not true…the entree was bland, the bread was burned, tea tasted like molasses, etc. Still, I appreciated having a meal that I neither had to prepare nor pay for. I sometimes lie when I tell a coworker that I like her blouse or when I tell a friend that I really can tell that he’s lost weight.
Watch the movie “Liar, Liar” and I bet everyone will recognize scenarios that you lie and would never even consider telling the truth. Even if it’s a lie of ommission, it’s still a lie.
By Peter
March 6, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
95% of our politicians are lawyers…..they ALL twist the truth, they have taught us to lie.
Do you actually believe Bush, when he said he got faulty intelligence about Weapons of Mass Destruction?
So that is my Point!
By Anyone But Hillary
March 6, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Peter - you’re an a*. Can we ever have an intelligent discourse on one of these blogs without some a-hole injecting politics into it? Four and six year olds are oblivious to politics so your comment makes no sense. All you wanted to do was toot your anti-Bush horn. Admit it. If you don’t, you’re lying and your kids will learn to lie from observing you.
By Huh?
March 6, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
By robo
March 6, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Josh,
So, which are you, a fiend/wannabe parent, or the result of such fine upbringing????
What does being a fiend have to do with parenting and kids telling lies? Do you have any kids?
By robo
March 6, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Huh?,
Let me briefly explain my point:
Yes, I have kids that I “parent”. I do not strive to be their “friend”. That job is for their friends, not for parents. Funny thing, they actually understand that their actions, both good and bad, have somewhat predictable consequences. Also, they seem to understand the thrill of sucessfully achieving something on their own, with parental guidance, and not getting some kind of free ride.
Wow, that must be hard for you to wrap your mind around.
By TRG
March 6, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
robo All of our children graduated with honors. All participated in sports all year round. And was one of the outstanding leaders of their team.
We are a military family and money 4 a beamer was not in the cards. To day our cildren are very successful and happy. My 25yr old daughter is a designer. My 23yr old daughter is a international customer representative for the furniture industry. My 23yr old son is a sgt in the military. He is an outstanding asset to our family and to the country. Our relationship with our children is wonderful. We all live in different parts of the world but yet we still take a family vacation together once a year. No matter how busy our lives are. robo, Maybe you need counseling. Something must have happen to you or was taught to you as a child that has affected you as an adult. Why are you so negative. Try thinking in a positive light until you can seek professional help. You will instantly notice a change in your daily life. And people wil gravitate toward you instead of repel against you. Good Luck.
By SouthFultonMom
March 6, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
My son lies much more than my daughter. He’s always been the “creative” liar to get him out of situations. Drives us nuts! He can be quite convincing sometimes. My daughter is more of a truth teller, but she has been caught being dishonest.
Children lie for the same reasons many adults lie - fear. We don’t want to get in trouble or we don’t want you to think something about us. And sometimes, people just like adding to the story. Let he who has never lied cast the first stone!
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Kids lie because they do not want to get into trouble. Lie is much easier than telling the truth!!
By Bob
March 6, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Look at our Leaders— the Clinton’s are GD liars. Bill Clinton was impeached on purgery charges.
By fk
March 6, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
On my husband’s side of the family, there are a few members that simply make up something up as a response to a question if they don’t know the answer. It drives me crazy. Why can’t they just say, “I don’t know.”? Needless to say, I am skeptical of their answers. How do they keep their stories straight? One thing is for sure, I never repeat their answers, or if I must, I add a disclaimer stating that I don’t know if the statement is true or not.
I think everyone tells lies of varying degrees, just as Stacey mentioned above, sometimes for good reason. It’s just that some people do it a lot and are much better at it.
My son was about four when he lied to me straight-faced. I could not believe it. He had written his name in pencil under several switch plates throughout the house. I called him on it and he lied, said he didn’t do it. I stood there in disbelief. Then I asked him who else would have written his name on the walls? His answer: “Daddy. He has the same name.” I almost laughed. Then I told him that I knew that he had written it because the “N” was backwards, just like he wrote it. He never really fessed up, but I made him clean it up. It did not deter him from telling future lies.
We have caught him on other little lies—-really stupid ones for such a smart kid. He insults our intelligence. If you’re going to lie, make it a good one, one that is worth the consequences. The stupid lies blow my mind, the ones we can easily verify—-like saying he cleaned his bathroom when all we have to do is walk up the stairs to check. I do worry about him out driving, telling us he’s somewhere when he’s really elsewhere, or with someone we don’t approve of. That hasn’t happened yet, or not that we’re aware of, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. My parents were known to do surprise checks when they thought we might be hanging around with a group of kids they did not particularly like or know very well. It was embarrassing if the friends noticed the big*ss station wagon chugging down the street.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
I cannot count the times I have caught my oldest and youngest in lies. Nothing big…just goofy stuff. The middle daughter is…I think…physically incapapble of lying. She has done something as bad as threw a shoe at her brother and blacked his eye. He didn’t think anything of it and there was no visible proof until the next day. But she immediately came to us and told us what she did. Sometimes her honesty needs to be tempered with a smidge of tact…I hope to begin that lesson over summer break:)
We have always told our kids that lying is not acceptable. The punishment for wrong doing will always be worse that the crime if they lie about it. We have told them from day one that doing the right thing is seldom the easy thing. But the right thing is what makes you sleep better at night…its what makes mom and dad and most importantly God…proud of them. Its not easy raising honest kids…heck, its not easy being an honest parent. But the point is to make it a top priority. I want my kids to grow up with integrity. And that starts with me and their dad.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Kids lie so they can steal their parents cigareets and booze.
By abc
March 6, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
There was an interesting segment on the Today show yesterday that asserted women lie and keep secrets the most. The assertion was that American culture taught them to do so, that they learned it from their mothers, media, etc. I’ve asked around since then; it is apparently so, judging from the responses I’ve gotten.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
I can see that ABC. Women are traditionally the peace keepers and were once taught to be seen and not heard. I know I keep certain things to myself. But not because I am trying to be dishonest. Its mostly because I would gain nothing by saying those certain things. Whatever situation I am in would not likely improve by disclosing that thougth or remark…so I keep it to myself. I personally think more people should employ that tactic…though we need to be careful to teach our kids the difference in hiding something to be deceitful and doing so to keep the peace.
By JustMe
March 6, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Vickie Defensive, aren’t you? I didn’t say that all kids that lie must have uninvolved parents. It was you that jumped to that conclusion.
By abc
March 6, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
People only lie for advantage, JG, there’s no other motive for so doing. ‘Keeping the peace’ would apply to kids keeping secrets or lying, otherwise they would get in trouble for whatever the truth really is. I don’t see how it’s any different for adult women. ‘Women like to control the flow of information’ , I’ve been told.
The problem is, such a false picture gets difficult to maintain, to remember what’s been disclosed and what hasn’t, what’s been falsified and what hasn’t; damage to or lack of trust is sure to result, sooner or later. Besides, the notion that women generally lie and keep secrets, as strong a statement as that is, and as acceptable as that seems to be to other women, is bothersome.
By Huh?
March 6, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Robo - So the kids you parent never lie? If you believe this, you truly have your head in the sand and I believe you are a liar too.
The 2 kids my husband and I parent do sometimes lie! They do it because they are trying to keep control of a situation or to avoid being caught doing something they know they shouldn’t have done. Is it acceptable, NO! Do they suffer some sort of consequences, YES!
Are we a “friend” to our children? No, we are their parents. You are not the only person who thinks they are raising their children to the best of their ability.
So get off what every trip you are on and go find someplace else to bash people. There are plenty of people with attitudes like yours and society benefits nothing from your negative spewing.
The fiend term came from your post! You made a typo mistake, yet you don’t admit you made a mistake.
By Vicki
March 6, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
JustMe,
It’s Vicki not Vickie.
Defensive? No. I just asked a question that you didn’t answer.
“Today, parents are so uninvolved that they don’t have the time/patience/care enough to even find out if it is a lie.”
You seem to make such a genral statement, I wanted to know what you are basing your opinion on.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
I think keeping the peace is ultimately an advantage. I agree. But I have to disagree with the notion that women lie or hide things for purely selfish reasons…to “get a leg up” on someone. Not in a cruel sense anyway. I really do think it stems from decades of conditioning from fathers and husbands. Women have historically been dissuaded from speaking their minds or offering their opinions…thougths and opinions that are very often more enlightening. Given that history..yes, I can see an in-born keep-it-to-yourself attitude. But again…I don’t think across the board us women are out to get anyone with this notion. Men have been able to lie, cheat, steal, what have you…and it has been tolerated for the most part. Their character has rarely been called into question..compared to a woman who gets caught doing or saying the same thing. The playing field is unlevel one. Or is it? Perhaps I am hiding something about that?:)
By DB
March 6, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
The daughter can’t lie worth beans — her eyes get wide, the story is just a little too pat, and the body language is hilarious. The son, on the other hand, could convincingly tell you that the sky is normally orange, except for a temporary blue abberation. :-) Most of the time, though, he doesn’t bother. Frankly, he really didn’t have much reason to — he doesn’t have to lie about his grades or his friends, and he had a pretty lenient curfew when he was in high school, so he wasn’t constantly trying to cover his tracks. :-) Most of their fibs were of the “lies of omission” variety — i.e., “I’m going to the movies with Jane and Judy”, conveniently forgetting to mention that, oh, by the way, Tom, Dick and Harry would also be there…:-) There’s also what I call the “lies of exceptions”, in which, “Yes, my room is clean,” (except for the stuff I shoved under the bed), and “Yes, my homework is done,” (except for that algebra that I’ll do in bed with a flashlight after I get back from my friend’s house).
The funniest one I ever caught the daughter in was when she was supposed to be at a school play with her boyfriend. I happened to be in the neighborhood, and at the time when the play had supposedly been going for 20 minutes, I was in the QT getting a drink, and guess who strolls in … imagine the look on their faces when they turn the corner, and there’s Mom. I brightly exclaimed, “Oh, decided not to go to the play, huh? OK, I can give you a ride home. NOW.”
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
I have lie about being a Lesinian for years.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
I Told you all Hillary would Win!!!!!
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
And our good ole’, predictable Tamkika returns! Welcome back dear!
By David
March 6, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I think children start lying as soon as they learn how to talk but early on it’s only to get out of trouble. Later, after they get to be about four or five years old, they start the really creative lying from just watching how folks interact,parents older siblings friends and such. Ithink once they get to that point, they are either going to be very good liars or very bad liars; there doesn’t seem to be middle ground when it comes to lying.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
My grandmother was lie to me all the time— Turns out she was sellling boob jobs to the local Nuns at St. Christophers.
By abc
March 6, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Here’s a link to the story. It accepts as conventional wisdom that women lie about just about everything: sex, marriage, fidelity, motherhood, work, finances, you name it.
Today Show/MSNBC Story
Perhaps the kids learn to lie from mom? It’s interesting to note that the author is female (who else could conduct such a study, though); and that she says men are lousy liars, don’t pick up on women’s lies very well, and kids tend to not pick up on their mom’s lies very much, especially sons.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
People need to Lie we all lie. It helps ud become better people. for example— You neighbor Tanya comes over and she asks you to go out to the bar with her to drink malt liquor. You think to your head that you dont want to go to the bay so you LIE: Tanya honey i havin a period now and i cant go drinking. Lie solved the problems!!
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
My son Kinny told me a real bad lie the other day: Kinny comes in th ehouse all smelling bad. I asked him kinny why you smell so bad. He said he fell down in th emud. Turns out he was building sand castles with the dogs poop. That kid always coming up with the craziest art work.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
ABC…I am so sorry. On behalf of all women everywhere…allow me to humbly apologize for the atrocious way in which you seem to have been treated. Someone has most certainly broken your heart. Please know that all women are not like this. Just like not all men beat the women they claim to love to bloody pulps. Just like like not all men are allergic to honest, deep communication. Just like not all men chase every peice of tail they see…only some. Please do not lump every women into your sour category. It isn’t becoming and just about guarantees you will grow old alone. That would the saddest thing of all.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
I had to kick a cow in her balls when i was little. They swolled up.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Adam lied to Eve when he made her eat that apple!! We been lie for all times now.
By abc
March 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Puh-leeeeeze… it’s a news story, not my personal commentary on women in general. It’s a book about women written by a woman.
By Tamika
March 6, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
I had to lie to my Mom when she found millions of used rubbers in my room. I told her i was growing tad poles. She was so proud i was being a scientist.
By jb
March 6, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry people. If your children lie a lot (and are good at it), more than likely they’ll be politicians, lawyers or car salesmen. Look upon it as career molding when they lie.
By JustMe
March 6, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Vicki I am a teacher and a parent. I see many more of these “uninvolved” parents than you can imagine.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Well ABC…you’ll have to forgive me. Your postings sounded very suspicious of women in general. Not all women lie..period.
By catlady
March 6, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Funny how few parents I talk to are willing to even think their children lie. Now, other people’s kids lie, the teacher lies, but THEIR child does not!
Children who are above the age of understanding (say, 4 or so) lie to get out of trouble or to show power or because of wishful thinking. Too many school children I see lie because their lies are accepted instead of challenged.
I have a few students this year that, when they mess up, they say, “Yes, I did it.” The majority, even though you have SEEN them do it, they deny it—and their parents believe them!
I have seen some very dumb kids lie and they could not figure out how I knew. Like the boy with terrible handwriting who erased the work of the kid with very neat handwriting and claimed it as his own. He also claimed that markers labeled KS were his (his name was Jim Davis) when the little Kathy Smith came in the room looking for her markers she had left when she sat in his desk for reading! When asked why he would put KS on his markers, he said it was because he made a mistake when he wrote his initials! And this kid was 11!
I agree that many, many of our kids watch their parents lie, cheat, and steal.
By not far from the tree
March 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Kids lie after hearing their parents lie about…oh I dont know, where they graduated from College… What their actual credentials are to have a particular job…their actual financial position, not the one they carefully pretend to have, stuff like that.
By catlady
March 6, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Like the boy with terrible handwriting who erased the NAME of the kid with very neat handwriting and claimed it as his own. Sorry about the typo
By abc
March 6, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
No, not all women lie… according to the author’s study, 60-75% lie, depending on the subject at hand. Of the 4 or 5 women I’ve talked with about it the past couple days, all of them find that keeping a lot of secrets is important to them: witholding financial information in order to hide money, not telling things to coworkers to gain advantage in the workplace, non-disclosure of personal history and habits to maintain a facade of being a ‘good wife’, ‘good Christian’, etc.
By Vicki
March 6, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
JustMe –
Oh, but I can imagine, I see it also with the volunteer work that I do for my children’s schools. Many times I have walked away from situations just shaking my head in disbelief. Being an involved parent doesn’t make you immune to your children lying, as you more than likely know.
Just as you find it offensive to be generalized in a group of “Teachers are the problem with education today”, some of the parents on this blog find it offensive to be grouped in general as “uninvolved parents”.
I don’t post very often. Thank you for your opinions and I have learned an amazing amount of insight from your (and a few others) past posts.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
I think men do the same things! Only with them it is more likely to preserve some sense of machismo, to make them look better to other male coworkers or women with whom they hope to get to know better. We all lie, thats a given. But my only problem with your assessment was the attitude that you seemed to express. You made it sound as if YOU thought all women were evil bastions of satan that must be destroyed.
By Chris
March 6, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
My kids lie because their father lies. It’s that simple.
By abc
March 6, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Actually, study results are that men supposedly don’t lie or keep secrets nearly as much nor nearly as well as women do. I think the point of the study’s results are to show that women are life-long, trained practitioners of deception as a way of life, certainly relevant to today’s blog topic of why children lie. I consider it remarkable in that such a thing as lying and hiding information could be quantified in a scientific way. It’s different from being merely suspicious of the opposite sex, slinging mud, or judgmental in a subjective way.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Actually, I think the point isn’t that women lie more often than men….and I certainly don’t think its a “way of life”….but that men are less intelligent:)
By Kim
March 6, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Kids lie because their parents lie: they lie about where they live. Parents preach that their children should not drink, yet they drink. They preach that their children should not use profanity, then flick the finger in traffic to another driver. They preach taking care of others, yet give nothing to worth while causes. The role model at home is the catalyst for children who are not optimum..and who do not reach their potential. They cheat in school to get the grade the parent expects, but the parent does nothing to ensure the student is prepared. Or, the other end of the spectrum is the parent who shames their student into making the highest of grades, as if that is all that matters…forgetting a healthy and balanced life. Adults, we are a mess.
By the REAL JustMe
March 6, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Call it what you want. Kids lie because of Free Will. It’s called Original Sin……just like Adam & Eve lied to God. As human beings, it’s in their nature.
Children….adults too for that matter, lie because of some wrong-doing they are trying to avoid the consequences for. It only takes one time for a child to learn that if their parent tells them not to do thus-and-such and they do it anyway and tell the truth when asked about it, they get punished.
ie: Mommy: “Johnny, did you draw on the bathroom mirror with Mommy’s lipstick?” Johnny: “yes”. Mommy: “well, because you did that, you (fill in the blank with punishment)”.
So they lie one time to keep from being punished. They are smart enough to understand wrong action + honesty = discipline. The first time they get away with a lie, it hits home, so they do it again….and again, etc.
It doesn’t matter how involved (or not) parent(s) are in their children’s lives…..or if they are witness to their parents lying (or not), etc.
And it doesn’t even have to be something which would result in punishment. Heck, my toddler will tell me she didn’t poop in her diaper because she doesn’t want to be taken away from her playing to get changed….she’s not going to be punished for it, but there are consequences of lost play time - even if it’s only a couple of minutes.
By FCM
March 6, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
my take on M vs. F and the lies…..Men are less likely to lie b/c they tend to have linear thinking….therefore they are less likely to remember later, plus it just isn’t that important to them.
Females tend ‘lie’ more because of the tangent factor…they can indeed go into another area of their brain, and ‘store’ the information….plust they tend to never forget anything.
I know here at my work place most of the women ‘grapevine’ often……I tend to keep what I ‘hear’ to myself…however, evesdropping is open season.
Theresa, along this thought set….what to do when you catch your child stealing?
By Momof2Boys
March 6, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Do kids lie? Do I lie? Interesting. In a black and white world - the answer is yes. However, I don’t see this as black and white issue. There are many shades of gray.
I’ll lie from time to time. When I think about it, I’d have to say that my lies are to spare another’s feelings when the truth would serve no purpose other than to upset the individual.
When my son was in kindergarten and a child called wanting to know if my son could spend the night, I lied to the mother as to why he could not. I wanted to scream, “R U nuts! We don’t even know you, what planet are you living on that you think I’m going to send my 5 year old off with a stranger!” But instead, I politely declined the invitation citing we had company. Does that make me a bad, deceitful person? Not in my world.
Do my children lie? To my husband and I, no they do not — and to all you nay sayers…believe what you want. My head is not in the sand, its the truth.
Although, as they’ve grown they’ve both tested those waters and found it wasn’t worth it! Now, do they tell little lies to their peers, yes from time to time, also to spare a person’s feelings. Do I expect them to test those waters with Dad and I again, yes I do. But for the past couple of years, nope, no lying to Mom and Dad.
There is a neighbor boy that comes by to play with my oldest son. Unfortunately, my son is not particularly fond of this child so rather than saying, “no thanks, I don’t like you very much” he will sometimes indicate he is doing his homework and can’t play right now. Other times he will play. So, which is worse, my son telling a white lie to avoid playing with this child, or playing with this child and acting as if he likes the kid?
Teacher’s encourage lying as well. When my son was being told, “stop commenting on how easy this or that assignment is, you’ll make the other children feel bad.” He was being told to lie. So, he’s been taught, by the school, to downplay his intelligence. When asked by other kids about the ease of a particular task, he has to refrain from expressing his true opinion.
Do I encourage lying. Of course not. But my children understand, you may not love the gift but its the thought that counts. You smile and accept it graciously. Does that make them liars? I guess so.
IMO, there is a huge difference between lying to get out of trouble, lying to Mom and Dad about who you are with or what you were doing, etc. And not telling someone the 100% truth to spare them some unnecessary pain as the truth brings nothing to the table.
Do I lie to my husband? No. Does he lie to me? No. If you don’t like my dinner, tell me, otherwise, you may end up eating it again!!
By the REAL JustMe
March 6, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Momof2Boys
Had your son been known to spend the night at other childrens’ houses at that point?
I’m just curious…what would have been wrong with simply saying something more accurate - such as, you didn’t feel he was ready for an overnight, or something to that effect?
No judging / criticism intended….just wanting to understand the basis for your decision in your response.
By BiteMe
March 6, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
There sure are some angry people in here. Jeez.
By mamaj
March 6, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
I have a god-daughter who lies so much it brings tears to my eyes. Her mother is the same way. I give her tons of opportunity to straighten out the lie and tell the truth, and she just rearranges it and repeats the lie. She is 16 years old, and no amount of talking to her, scolding her,punishing her,or even telling her how it makes me feel works. The child simply does not recognize the truth and I am stomped and heart-broken.
By Jesse's Girl
March 6, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Mamaj…I have a neice that is just like that. Its as if she lies for sport or the fun of it. I used to chalk it up to silly childhood ignorance. However,I think at this point its really a sickness for her and she can’t help herself. She told her friends when she was 12 that she was training for the Junior Olympics in gymnastics. That lie was discovered after a while and she wanted to transfer schools. She has lied to her friends about the kind of home she lives in. My brother..her dad…and his family were living in a trailer on 100 acres while they built their dream home. Apparently she couldn’t handle people knowing she was living in a trailer. I mean…how esay is that to prove? She lies to people about the places she’s traveled to, what she’s involved in at school. But the thing is, she has a heart of gold! None of us can figure it out. She saw a psychologist when she was 16 and they diagnosed her as pathological. The doc said she was EXTREMELY brilliant and that high IQ’s is the norm for people like this. She is now in college and functions very well. She is getting stellar grades…her dad has been given proof by the grades in the mail. But I do fear for her quality of life and if this disorder can be passed down generationally or if this is just some freak psychological thing. I pray for my brother and his family constantly…
By EE
March 6, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Josh you are the idiot.
I caught my son in several obvious lies in the early teens. I punished him for the action and the lies. The lies eventually stopped.
By lovelyliz
March 7, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this
Kids lie from the same reasons adults do. Because it’s easier, feels better and is more convenient than telling the truth. And yes, they learn it from the adults around them.
By Momof2Boys
March 7, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this
REAL JustMe,
At the time, my son was participating in sleepovers at the homes of families we knew VERY well.
To be honest, I was so surprised and taken off guard by the request, I was not sure how to respond and so I replied with the first thing that popped into my head that wouldn’t be considered rude.
Although, now, having gathered a few additional years of parenting experience under my belt, if I am asked again by a family we do not know, my response will be an honest one. “Thank you for the invite, but we do not allow sleep overs at the homes of families we do not know. Let’s start by getting the boys together to play. Perhaps you and little Johnny can come over for a couple hours on Saturday afternoon.”
That is how I would respond now but, like I mentioned, I was so surprised at the time, I was almost at a loss for words!
Live and learn! Experience is the best teacher!
By motherjanegoose
March 7, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
This is an interesting topic with so many good points. I hate lying. I lose respect for those who lie to me, as I do not think they have the self confidence to be honest. That being said, have I EVER lied…yes! I have found a problem with gray areas and maintaining friendship… Do you lie my new car? YES ( what on earth were you thinking of when you chose that color?) This can be a BIG dilemma. To me, the biggest buzz word in our society today is CONVENIENT…people are so accustomed to things being convenient that they do whatever they can to stay the course.
So, sometimes it is convenient to lie in order to avoid a conflict or simply look bad. My clients know that I adhere to “honesty is the best policy “and they trust me to do whatever I agreed to do. My children know this too. Have there been times where it was not convenient…you bet. If you are secure with yourself, it is better to just tell the truth: “well, you know we really have a rule in our family that we have to know the parents before we allow our children to spend the night. It is probably protective but we are ultimately responsible for our children and they cannot be replaced at Wal Mart…hahaha!” Our son wanted to play with a boy who lived on the other side of our neighborhood about 15 years ago. My husband insisted that He go over and meet the parents. They thought it was nuts…after the visit we were glad he was not allowed to go over! FYI…only believe half of what your children tell you about their teacher and he/ she will be glad to believe half of what they tell about you…there are some doozies and most of the stories from home ( sadly) are true. One, I had a Kindergartener announce ( in group time)” My Mommy does not wear underpants to bed! ” We lived in a small town and I am certain everyone knew this by the next day…it was a riot. When our son was in Kinder, he came home and told us he got in trouble. He made up this proposterous story that I found hard to believe. My husband was ready to rip the ears off of the teachers. My rule is “if you @!$$ the teacher off in October, you will never be on her good side” let me call her. Well, things were not exactly the way they were described to us and we all learned a lesson!
By Tony
March 10, 2008 7:03 AM | Link to this
The article provides good information for parents. As a school principal, I can’t tell you how many times when meeting with parents they have said, “My child doesn’t lie to me.” or, “I can tell when my child’s lying and when he’s telling the truth.” I always remind these parents that it is okay to trust but they should also verify! If these parents don’t establish this pattern, beware when the child becomes a teen.
By Poupon
March 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
I highly recommend the book The First Honest Book About Lies by Jonni Kincher. It’s an entertaining yet informative look at lies. Prepare to be humbled! You won’t believe how often we all lie, and ‘nice’ people are some of the worst offenders. They lie with flattery, but they also are more likely to lie to themselves.
Did anyone else catch the lie in the article? The one about George Washington?
My dd has always had a problem with lying. She is stoic by nature so has a natural gift for telling them, but she still gets caught eventually. Sometimes this causes great embarrassment for her. That, more than punishment, makes lying a big problem for her, but it’s not enough to make her stop. She can’t seem to stop. She is otherwise as close to a perfect child as one could be, so she isn’t lying to any end; she just does it.
I’ve always known that this is not about fear of punishment in her case, because she knows she will be caught and punished, and accepts that as part of the whole. The article hit the nail on the head - this child is one who needs to feel in control. Every problem we’ve ever had with her stemmed from that, and it’s conversely, her best tool. She lies most when her confidence is down, and when she is not feeling well or is upset.
Now that she is in her teens, this is a serious issue in our house. Any advice that addresses the self control issue would be most appreciated.
By Frustrated
March 10, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
By Poupon, I am having the same problem with my older teenage daughter. It is hard to give more control to one who continually is untruthful. I, too, would like some advice about this. She is otherwise a good kid and doesn’t get into other ‘teen’ trouble…drinking, drugs, sex. But this dishonesty and need for control is hard to deal with repeatedly. It seems she loses her cell phone and is grounded so often she would quit, but it does seem to continue sporatically.
By Poupon
March 10, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Teachers and principals, who have posted here, why will you not taken any responsibility for lies that originate with school staff?
For the record, the only time my son took up lying was when he had a teacher who couldn’t tell the truth to save herself. Stupid lies that were easy to disprove, like saying the water fountain was broken, and cruel lies about her students, that seriously and in some cases, permanently saffected their lives, because parents trusted her.
I pulled my son out of school and he stopped telling lies, and stopped other misbehaviors she taught him. If he could only overcome her mantra “you’re stupid and you are going to Hell” he’d be fine. Unfortunately that bullet knew it’s target.
During our horrendous experience in school I read everything I could get my hands on about education, and in the course of that, I stumbled upon a principal’s manual for ‘handling’ parents. It was full of suggestions that involved manipulating the truth. Several times it suggested outright lies. I was galled to recognize many of them, that were used on me. One of the comments posted here by a teacher was all too familiar. “Believe 50% of what you hear your child say about me and I will believe 50% of what your child says about you” is one. DON’T FALL FOR THAT! Any teacher who says that is up to NO good and covering up!
If you want to know what is going on in your kindergartener’s class, count the number of wet and soiled clothes changed by the class at the end of each school day. The more there are, the more abusive the teacher, especially if there are any soiled ones.
If, as common wisdom will have it, kids lie to avoid punishment, then logically they will lie in their teacher’s favor, won’t they? Otherwise they’d be punished when it comes back that your child informed on her. So beware of that 50% rule!!! Kids don’t lie negatively about their teachers at age five.
I grew up in academia, and nearly all my relatives ( and my dh’s) are educators. My grandfather, who was an important influence on me and how I raise my children, was a teacher, principal, superintendent and was ultimately reknowned for substantially reducing the violence in a troubled state reform school. The principal’s manual is anti-ethical to everything he ever taught me about children and education. To him, mutual trust and respect was the foundation that education is built on, no matter the child.
I lost all trust and respect for the profession after our experience. Public education is at best, a scam these days, and at worst it’s cruel, as when a teacher tears a child down because of her own sorry ego state. Then there is the universal habit( demonstrated in posts here) of blaming everything on students as young as five.
Some here have declared “all children lie”. It is true that most (but not all) children sample lying as a coping tool, but most of them give it up pretty quickly as ineffective. Adults are the real masters of deceit, and those in charge of children are the worst of all.
By Poupon
March 10, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Hi Frustrated,
I do know that self esteem is a big part of this. Solve that and the lying will fade - that seems to be the key. I try to remind me that this is not a quick fix habit, but one that will take time and patience. I try to focus on ways to help my dd feel good about herself (tough with teenage girls and all their doubts!)
The best book I know of for parenting, including this issue, is Teaching Your Children Joy by Linda and Richard Ayres. It discusses the roots of happiness, which are very different from what society pursues these days.
My dd has always been mature for her age and looks much older too, but she gets passed over for things far less mature kids get to do because of her chronological age. Not being allowed to work or function at the level we are capable of erodes self esteem. That has been my dd’s biggest issue. She makes most of our meals (lucky me!), and can buy and cook whatever she likes. That helps. She also runs the register at a volunteer agency (for free, as she just turned 13). Those things help, but I think she suffers from ‘too little, too late’ syndrome.
By Janie
March 25, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
Robo has been crucified but I know of a family like that. The “real” mom lies all the time & has no time for her kids (too busy traveling & getting plastic surgery), the dad “spins” to make his children look good, and the grandmother tells them that they are so special because they are her blood relatives that they believe they can do no wrong. Guess what? The kids lie like crazy to manipulate this adults into just about anything they want- and they don’t feel bad about hurting others to get their way.