Does stigma of free lunch keep kids from eating?

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Across the country, students are skipping lunch so they don’t have to reveal they can’t afford it. How does your school handle free lunches?

By Theresa Walsh Giarrusso | Tuesday, March 4, 2008, 07:00 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

In San Francisco, only 37 percent of the high school students eligible for subsidized meals eat them. In New York City, the number is only slightly higher at 40 percent.

Why would students not take advantage of a free meal if it is available? Because it’s not cool.

A New York Times story reports, that across the country kids and teens are going without food instead of revealing to classmates their financial circumstances. Here’s the full story.

The story says, “Many districts have a dual system … : one line, in the cafeteria, for government-subsidized meals (also available to students who pay) and another line for mostly snacks and fast-food for students with cash, in another room, down the hall and around the corner. Most of the separation came into being in response to a federal requirement that food of minimal nutritional value not be sold in the same place as subsidized meals — which have to meet certain nutritional standards.”

What are some solutions?

In San Francisco, officials are looking at introducing cashless cafeterias that use debit cards or punch codes so everyone checks out the same. It would also only offer one line of food to all students so their choices wouldn’t expose them.

I don’t know what is happening at our local high school, but our elementary school already uses a debit card type system. Parents put cash into an online account and the card is swiped in the line. As far as I can tell when I’ve eaten lunch with my daughter no one knows who is paying or who is not. They also only have one line to choose from.

It’s terribly upsetting to me that these kids and teens are missing out on one or potentially two (if they are eating breakfast at school) meals a day. Besides missing the nourishment that they need, you have to think not eating would affect their learning as well. Hungry children can’t concentrate as well as full ones.

What is happening at your school? How do they handle the lunch lines? Can their peers tell if they are getting a subsidized lunch?

Permalink | Comments (229) | Post your comment | Categories: Education

Comments

By Dan

March 4, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

The problem is there is not enough stigma. There needs to be some lesson here that in life there is no free lunch, pun intended.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Yes, let the children be hungry all day. We have no responsibility to make sure our weakest and youngest have food.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

And by the way Dan — the best way to break the cycle of poverty (so you won’t have to provide free lunches) is through education. If the children are sitting in class starving then they are not learning. And the cycle will continue.

By Dan

March 4, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Pathetic, chugging the Kool Aid. One no we don’t have the responsibility to feed them, should we probably but there is a difference between respobsibility and showing concern. And in any case that is a social services issue, it should not be a school issue. And I never said don’t feed them I said the stigma will teach them something. As a matter of fact someone who is taught to have no shame when taking a handout, indeed someone who is taught that said handout is their “right” perpetuates “poverty” far more than missing a sandwhich. Oh and I know first hand about it so don’t think I am preaching from an ivory tower.

By kimmie

March 4, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

look, you people dont understand all parents situations. my parents seperated when i was in high school and my mom could not find money for my lunch. but do to the kids making fun of other kids that had the “free lunch” many of us just didnt eat. its sad that you wont give a child a chance to nurish themselves so that they can try to better themselves. kids cant help it. it is for the children not you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Jeff

March 4, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Dan is correct, there isn’t enough stigma. Free lunchers are the greediest and rudest of students in school cafeteria’s. It’s not the taxpayers job to feed them, it’s to educate them, and judging from Georgia’s ranking in education they sure aren’t learning anything even though they are eating well. These same children are the offspring of Welfare recipients, most long term welfare abusers, who have no stigma about living off taxpayers—and will most likely join the tradition of a lifetime of “freebies” at the taxpayers expense. Therein lies the cycle that continues Theresa.

By Arnita

March 4, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

In my children’s school they use a number pad to key in their student ID. An account is created against that ID where money is deposited periodically. When the child’s code is keyed in the cost of the lunch is automatically deducted from the account. With this system no one knows who is paying or not.

By Claire

March 4, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Theresa-The best way to break the “cycle” of freebies is to do away with them completely and quickly. The society of today is all about the freebie-America is a nation of lazy freeloaders, and it’s getting worse everyday.

By It Makes You Stronger

March 4, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

You can’t hide everything in life -the kids need to get used to standing up for themselves. Do the kids who ride the short bus get off the bus in some isolated area so the other kids don’t see them? Of course not. Do the parents who drop their kids off at school in a Mercedes have to do it in a different place from the parents who drive a beat up Prius? Of course not. Kids will always comment about stuff - it’s a rite of passage for growing up. If they can’t handle it in school, they’ll be failures in life. And - they’ll vote for people who promise rose-colored-glasses “changes” to make it seem like everything is going to be OK.

By Angela

March 4, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Dan, have you ever needed free or reduced lunch? Have you ever needed the help of the government? I’m guessing no, since you simply don’t understand the stigma attached with need based social programs. God forbid you ever end up with cancer and need to collect SSI or your kids need the free lunches. You guys keep judging people & your day will come…maybe you’ll learn something then…

By Kat

March 4, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

No wonder kids attach a stigma to other kids - these adults (or perhaps more frighteningly, parents) have the very same ideas. The kids’ situations may not be their fault - situations at home, a lost job, whatever. They should be allowed to get a meal. Education and good nutrition helps everyone. Remember, these people will be running the country one day.

By BlackGirl

March 4, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

I cannot believe…oh wait a minute, I can believe some of the comments made here! It isn’t a childs fault that they their parents can’t afford to pay for lunch. These are the same people that will tell us that we need to fight in Iraq, but we don’t need to help our own.

When I was in school students receiving free lunch got a lunch card which identified them. Today, there is no card, they’re just given a number. But let me say that many teens go without lunch. My daughter rarely eats lunch which really bothers me. Money stays on her account for weeks before I realize that I haven’t given her any money for a while. She swears the food is so nasty that she can’t eat it and it apparently isn’t cool to actually bring a lunch like she did in elementary.

Many a poor person has gone on to be hugely successful. Anybody ever heard of Oprah Winfrey? Let’s help those that cannot help themselves. If we show them how to be successful, caring individuals, we can create a generation of productive citizens.

By Dan

March 4, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Angela Yes if you read the whole post and not just the pieces you want, you would know. Yes I have been there, so your guess is as wrong as your judgement. There are many obvious misconceptions here that sound good but have no basis in reality. Tell me do you really think not eating would stop the teasing? Of course not kids aren’t that stupid. Second if a child was really hungry he/she would eat regardless. Third need based is a joke, too many kids on free lunch have $100 sports shoes and gold chains and most are not embarrassed by the free lunch, they revel in it. I have no problem with picking up the tab for the truly needy, but they also need to learn, there is a price for everything and that it is your responsibility to pull your own weight, and if others help you out then you thank them for their generosity, and repay as quick as you can

By THESINGLEVOICE

March 4, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

It is funny when poor kids need to learn a life lesson it is okay to be harsh and matter of factly but when affleunt kids go on burglary sprees and the chance of them having a criminal record comes into play, we should be compassionate and understand their circumstances and not do anything to impede their potential.It Makes You Stronger you are totally clueless. “Do the kids who ride the short bus get off the bus in some isolated area so the other kids don�t see them?”

Of course they do. And if you spent more time at a school observing and working and less time sitting behind your keyboard giving opinion about things you are only guessing about you would know that. And leave Obama out of this.

By nurse&mother

March 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Although I generally don’t agree with government assistance, these are children that need nutritious lunches. They can not help the situation their parents are in.

If you want to take away other benefits that is fine by me. I get so tired of seeing so many people receiving benefits when they refuse to work. Cut that THAT out, if you want to, but let these children eat stigma free.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

People, we are talking about CHILDREN here. Are you seriously suggesting that these kids can somehow help the plight of their parents?! Come one…how idiotic! We cannot punish children of impoverished parents. Exactly how does that help? What that does do is perpetuate the the feeling of not being good enough…of not fitting in…of not being liked or cared for. All children, regardless of their family’s financial standing, deserve some reprieve at school. Its there that they learn, thrive, and prosper. Its there that they can learn overcome the unfortuante circumstances they were born into. And lets please not act as if all poor children are somehow degenerates. I’ve seen the poorest of the poor raise the most beautifully spirited families.

Talk about a sense of entitlement! Some of you act as if your tax brackett dictates what you should and should not be subjected to. Wake up!!!! Every single child deserves a chance. If they aren’t getting it at home…whether intentional or not on the part of the parents…then they should damn well have a go of it at school.

Schools should not make it so painfully obvious who these kids are. They already know they are poor…they already go without. Let him eat lunch with some modecum of dignity and grace.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Dear Claire, Jeff and Dan — It isn’t always welfare recipients on free or reduced lunches. To qualify for a free lunch a family of 4 can make up to $26,845 a year. To qualify for a reduced lunch a family of 4 can make up to $38,203. For example, when my husband was in grade-school, his father was a Green Beret for the United States Army. My husband was eligible for free or reduced lunch at various points in his childhood. He absolutely remembers the stigma of having to walk up to the front of the classroom to hand in his lunch money trying to make 35 cents sound like $1. Should he be made to feel inferior while his father was serving his country? Even today many soldiers� children are often eligible for free or reduced lunches.

By FCM

March 4, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

I have seen pleanty of WIC people buying steak in the grocery (not with their WIC)…then get in a Mercedes….

If this were elementary/maybe even Middle School kids I might get upset and say let’s feed them/make them eat.

However, these are HS students. They should be learning to apply the teachings of how to take care of yourself…feed, dress, social, etc…..Some could get a job….Some probably choose not to eat.

I cannot name 5 times I remember eating in the cafeteria and eating the school food…..I usually went to the library, ROTC office, or even OUT (as a Senior)…..Skipping one meal a day won’t hurt the kid. Now if that’s the ONLY meal a day they get, yes there is a problem.

By Anyone But Hillbama

March 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Let’s just give everyone a free lunch. And - while we’re at it - free prescriptions, free gas, free housing, free clothing, free pet food, free cell phones, free bling, etc., etc., etc. All you have to do is stand in line and don’t question authority. Ask the citizens of Cuba how they like it - I’ll bet they wouldn’t mind a little embarrassment now and then in order to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I am not saying there aren’t parents who are on assistance that take advantage. There absolutely are and they are teaching their kids to do the same. But how do you weed out these people? Where is the line in the sand drawn? We can’t make them eat. But we can provide a non-judgemental service once a day for the kids who wish to use it. Its the attitude about these children from some of you that really bothers me. You want to change this situation? It starts with the parents…all parents. Even the affluent ones.

By TinaTeach

March 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Reduced lunches were a life saver when my sister and I were in elementary school. My father was going to college to become a nurse and my step-mother was a private school teacher working for less than 15k a year. I remember very little stigma from reduced lunch which I recieved (or qualified for) all the way through high school. When I lived with my mother she was going to college to get her Ph.D. I got a job and insisted on paying for my lunches from then on out. At no point where we ever on welfare and my parents were constantly working to better our lives. I went to college straight out of school so that I can insure that my kids have good lives, not so they won’t face the stigma of reduced or free lunch. There are so many other things that teach you to better your life than a free lunch.

By Dan

March 4, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Theresa, My father was a NYC cop, and we had reduced price lunch beacuse one of my brothers was in and out of hospital through most of his elhi years. I have never said that someone should be made to feel stigmatized, nor should special rules be created to reduced any perceived stigma that may be there, because they never work and the plain fact of the matter is, anyone with self respect and a good work ethic will (and should) feel some sense of shame. When my parents had even a little extra money, she took our reduced cards and fixed lunch. There needs to be some incentive to break the cycle. If freebies are too easy (and they are) it becomes a vicious cycle

By flipper

March 4, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Hey, Blackgirl, why don’t you try parenting for a minute, make that girl a healthy lunch and tell her that she is grounded unless she brings home bread crusts and empty yogurt containers every afternoon. If she loses friends over bringing a healthy lunch she needs to find new friends anyway.

The real stigma of school lunch is the 20 or so pounds that the kids pack on eating that over-processed, fried, starchy cr_p. My neighbor started letting her formerly thin daughter eat that garbage because she claimed to be too “busy” to spend 5 minutes packing a lunch. Now after just a few months, her daughter is a fat cow like so many of the FRL kids that eat that garbage.

It should be a crime that kids are forced to eat food like that.

By mel

March 4, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

When I went to high school, I had just moved to the US. My parents were divorced. Mom worked one job. I had two siblings. We lived with other family members, because we could not afford a place of our own. I did have free lunch at school. I thought it was wonderful and nobody ever made fun of me. We had the card system that the lunch lady had to punch every day. I turned out well. Although working for the state, I do not make half as much as I would on the private sector. And yet, according to the state, I am now living in poverty because they don’t pay me enough. I don’t have enough energy to get another job, since I am in college for my second degree and I work for the army as a guardsman. There is a need, and the children have no fault for being in that situation. While it should not be a handout, it should teach the children responsibility.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Well Flipper…thank you for your educated take on the issue. I’m sure Blackgirl appreciates it. But we aren’t talking about how healthy or unhealthy school food is. Surely we can all agree that it sucks big, fat hairy ones. Given the choice…most thoughtful parents would go another route. BUT…we are talking about the ones that truly need it because their parents cannot afford any other way. Its those kids that need and deserve to eat their lunch with their friends without wondering if anyone noticed they got it for free. Being a kid these days is so much harder than it used to be. It won’t kill us as a society to make one small part of it a tad easier on them.

By mamaj

March 4, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

I’m just so speechless right now that I can’t seem to find the words to express my feelings about some of the comments here. So I’ll just say, as long as some of you live in this world, may your circumstances always be so bright as to never need a handout or a hand up from another human being!

By Todd

March 4, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

I took my lunch to school with me everyday: Capri Sun, Peanut Butter Sandwich, some chips (in a plastic bad—not individually bagged), and sometimes a cookie.

These fat kids can do the same thing. I have taught at high school in Savannah where all the public schools have Papa John’s pizza everyday as an option, and now at a middle school.

Only a handful of hundreds bring their lunch. The rest get their free lunch and then get up and buy their soda for $1.00 and get their ice cream as well. So much for being poor …

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

I have no problem with giving a child a meal.The stigma and embarressment of yesteryear no longer exist.The problem I do have is the Food stamp/wic vouchers disguised as credit cards. The little black ones with the peaches on it. Watch them at wal-mart with a load of groceries that we can’t afford bejeweled in the “bling” as they swipe that card like it’s a Visa gold card and DARE you to have a problem with it. Must be freakin’ nice.

By SS

March 4, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

My husband worked at AT&T for 29.5 years. We have a large family, never been on welfare, paid all our own taxes, bills, etc. At the point we had half the kids raised and gone: married, in college, we were on a plan to have our home paid off in a few years and be totally debt free. Then the ax fell. AT&T forced him into early retirement even though at 46 he was too young to retire, plus we still had the youngest kids still to complete raising to make it on retirement.

A few years prior to this event, we moved from one part of Atlanta to another, and yes, we used the reports put out by the different districts and counties showing all the stats including how many receive free/reduced lunches and we did use that as one of the criteria because it does speak for an area as to how well kids are doing and how well parents are supportive of the teachers and kids in school. We moved from an area that was 70+% free/reduced lunches. The neighborhood our house was in and the schools serving it was surrounded by multi-family dwellings containing very transient very depend people who gave very little as a whole, to the community or schools. They were takers and it brought that area and schools down.

So we moved and in moving we did look at the stat of % of free/reduced lunches. It did help us get into a neighborhood of good schools.

But then fast forward to the three years we needed to put our kids into the program so they could eat. No kids can not go without a meal, or shouldn’t. It does so affect ability to think and function and to fight off viruses etc. Are there those that abuse the system? Yes. But my kids at their respective schools used the program. Was it embarrassing? Yes. I don’t know they were made to purposely made to feel humiliated it was just the way it is set up. It did bother me to some degree, but, like someone said there is no free lunch and if the price to feed my kids those three years we were out of work was to put up with the stigma, fine, so be it. It has created character in us we did not have before. We are humbled, we are more aware of others who may be in a similar situation. Those were the only years we had no way to provide Christmas for our kids and the schools social workers did a very kind compassionate job. We have been raising kids for over 30 years we have had kids in school for 27 years. Ask all my kids what their morning routine was: While I fixed them breakfast, they made their lunches. Not until these three years I speak of did we every use public assistance.

It took that long for my husband to land another job, in spite of all of his qualifications and education, we will testify that age discrimination is alive and well and how the heck to you prove it? If I had not seen it with my own eyes, that he was placing 100’s of applications rarely would he get called for an interview. If he pushed it he would, and when he would show up and be the obvious oldest in the group, and he would be the only one not called for a second interview….well that is another story/blog for another day.

Another blog for another day too would be how the company gave us a $75,000.00 severance package, which was not too shabby, however, you can guess how that shoved us up to higher tax brackets, we didn’t see half of it. I even called our state senator and asked is there not some provision to allow people in this situation to keep that money to prevent from having to go broke and his reply was, wow, I have never thought of that maybe I will have to look into that. Even if he did, it would not take care of our immediate problem of the moment.

Just let me say we are extremely grateful for the program. We paid our taxes and supported it all those years and still do now. I do not mind being the helping hand that I KNOW more and more are needing. Yes there will always be those in their high priced sneakers and gold jewlery, using and abusing the system. BUT, there are those who truly do need a temporary hand. And we humbly thank you for that.

And just so you all know who have passed all the judgments my kids did work—-it paid for their clothes they bought at Walmart, and they paid for their siblings clothes and school supplies. Gratefully we came away with health benefits, so we had insurance, but it has risen sharply each year so that a large part of our income pays for our insurance.

But we have been richly blessed between family, friends, community and church to stabalize and my husband is now reemployed for the last 5 years and has clawed his way back up to near where we were when he was retired. We are about $$20,000 shy of where he was when he was made to retire. He started at this company at the bottom rung which put us $60,000 short a year, but he ate the humble pie and hung in there, kept up with his work ethic of being on time working hard and never missing a day. I am in nursing school and will graduate with my RN in about a year. We hope to never be found in that position again. We will officially retire in about 10 years.

The stigma is painful, I guess it works to boot some of them who would hang on out, it works to keep some out, but it defintely makes a family humble and builds character.

Once again, thank you to those who unknowingly gave us the hand we needed.

By Gus

March 4, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Wow, there are some mean-spirited folks on this site. Let the kids starve? Hmmm, that’s nice. Hell, why don’t we take away their health insurance too. While we are taking away their freeloader meals and insurance, why don’t we make them pay for school like other Third World countries do. These people don’t pay property taxes, shouldn’t they pay something toward the education? That will teach these kids that it sucks to be poor and toughen them up for real life later on. I am sure they will appreciate it. It will also give the good, honest, hard-working folks someone to kick around for fun.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Hey Gus — If you’re referring to the second comment in the group — it was sarcastic —

By rj

March 4, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

i am a former teacher…when i hear talk about free/reduced lunches, i think of two things i consistently encountered: 1.)students receiving free lunches although their parents drove pimped-out escalades; 2.)pregnant parents signing their children up for the free lunch program. why are you having another child if you cant afford to feed the ones you have?

By Em

March 4, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

When I was in highschool I got a part-time job and paid for my own lunches, I took the city bus to my job. If the kids want to eat “cool food” and are old enough to work they should do it for themselves themselves.

By Stacey

March 4, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

My son’s school assigns a four student ID that is used for lunches, checking out library books, etc. As others have pointed out, with this system, only the cafeteria workers know who pays full price, who gets reduced price and who gets free lunch.

I now post money to my son’s lunch account online and they send me a “Low Balance Alert” once his account drops below a specified amount. I used to send the money by him until a few months ago when a cash payment wasn’t posted (both he and his teacher say he took it to the cafeteria) and he had to eat the “alternative lunch” which was a hunk of american cheese on white bread and milk. He faced the stigma of not being able to eat what everyone else ate because there was no money on his account. Meanwhile, the kids receiving free lunch had their choice of entrees. At least they didn’t have to face a stigma.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

SS…I sincerely pray my children are blessed enough to marry into a family like your’s. Thank you for being such an awesome role model in love, humility, grace and servitude.

By parentof4

March 4, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

I think all children should eat. Also depending on old the child is, the current program at my child’s old school did not allow for them to understand they had to pay for the lunches. All you did was give them the last 4 of your social and boom you had your lunch. My child did not know who was putting money in that account. In fact, there was a mess up and the youngest boy would eat breakfast at home, then go to school and ate breakfast then ate lunch. I saw no difference in the account and started to complain that they let my child go through 3 weeks with out eating. Come to find out they had him on free lunch and did not hit my account. All he said was “I just have to give them a number and they let me walk away with the food without paying.” Did not teach him anything good.

However, I do believe children should not feel stigmatized because of their parents plight. Given today’s economy you are going to see higher numbers on that list. Maybe if they taught the children how to live within their means then the cycle of poverty will be broken. How you should not have a fancy car yet live in a run down apartment. How just because your cousin has a big house you do not have to have one also, unless of course you have saved up and paid cash for that big house. Cash for homes is a novel concept that America does not have anymore. It is not the child’s fault their parent cannot make enough money to pay for the overpriced nasty lunch. For those who state you should not have a child if you cannot pay for it…Look at where gas is now, from when my oldest was born in 1996. I was paying no more than 86 cents per gallon. No one would have thought then that gas would top $4 by the summer. When those prices rise, everything else rises. When the government gave out low interest rates, housing prices rose, when housing prices rose…apartment prices rose. So on and So on…you can plan, but prices have risen far above the usual cost of living.

By the way I pay regular price for my children’s lunch, that is if they accept it.

By Chris

March 4, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Why are schools in the food business anyway? I personally think that schools should stop serving lunch and make the kids and teachers bring lunch from home. That will take away any stigma attached. Then the schools could spend that money on books, and supplies instead of food.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Chris — this is from the NYT story “Today, the United States Department of Agriculture spends $8.3 billion a year to provide free and reduced-lunches …” It’s not coming out of school budgets —

By Chef

March 4, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

I am sure I am going to regret this based on the tone of some of the previous comments but here goes.

Twenty six years ago when I had to use free lunch coupons that were a different color than the full price coupons, it was humiliating and I stopped eating lunch every day. As the new kid at middle school and poor in affluent east Cobb county, I was teased and taunted.

Fast forward twenty two years when my husband was diagnosed with cancer and we were struggling to stay solvent (and yes, we had jobs and health insurance for those of you who think we were riding the government gravy train), our children qualified for reduced meals. They did not know it at the time because they were able to enter their lunch number and no one ever knew. That is a vast improvement to the old system.

In a perfect world, the community rallies around families who need this type of assistance but until that happens, the free and reduced lunch program is a necessary program in public schools.

By Nan

March 4, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Well, once again the majority of the comments run true to form for the AJC. I swear the most selfish, narrow-minded, and hateful people on the planet read this paper.

By Silent Running

March 4, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

I think everyone has it backwards.

The free lunch kids who aren’t eating in the lunchroom aren’t doing it because of stigma.

They’re doing it because school lunch food is generally not good. Most lunchrooms have nutritional guidelines which makes for some non-tasty meals. Add to it that almost every child would rather have a chocolate bar than string beans or mystery meat. And that’s what Mama’s packing in those sacks. Chocolate bars and other sugary snacks. All tasty and nothing healthy.

By don imus

March 4, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

I understand the concept of free and reduced lunches, but you have to there are PLENTY of people who take advantage of the system.

When the student is dropped off at school in a Denali or some ride sitting on dubs, you have to wonder….they can afford the car, but not lunch for their kid.

By mike

March 4, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

My brother and I qualified for free lunches after our father passed away. We were in 7th and 8th grade. It was humiliating and we opted not to eat and hid while the other kids got in line for thier hot meal.

BTW, we both now make high six figure incomes.

By NICK

March 4, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

If getting another “free hand-out” isn’t cool at skool, then DON’T EAT LUNCH.

No one should be “entitled” to a free meal. That is what is wrong with this country. Too many “so called poor people” expect everything given to them.

Maybe, by being to embarrassed to accept another free “hand out”, these kidz will work harder then their parents did and actually be “contributors” to society, rather then parasites, who “sponge” of tax payer money.

By don imus

March 4, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

way to go mike….you overcame the adversity of being teased as a child to make a “high 6 figure income” (which no one can ever validate on a blog)

why would you even feel compelled to tell us what you currently make, who cares…what does that have to do with ANYTHING.

Oh by the way, I made 2.74 million dollars last year.

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Thank god for these wonderful kids. They haven’t been brainwashed by the schools and the liberal media yet. They recognize that this food is acquired on their behalf through THEFT and they want no part of it. They are above CHARITY. Good for them.

Calling something “aid” doesn’t make it not charity. If the money for it wasn’t acquied through peaceful, voluntary means, then it is the product of THEFT. You who steal on behalf of these children are criminals. You who would vote for some government employee to steal on their behalf are criminals.

The real problem is that newspapers like this one continue to hammer home the ideas that such things are not CHARITY, or otherwise. You types live and breathe off the continuance of these wastefull and IMMORAL programs so you need more and more to sign up.

What is truly disgusting is that schools take all this money and waste it on food nobody wants. Now if only the kids could see that their education is funded in exactly the same IMMORAL manner then we would be all set. We might finally start getting new generations that aren’t in love with socialism and who yearn for the opportunity to grow, work, and live in a free society for a change.

Ha Ha - even the kids are smarter than you!

By momof4

March 4, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

I feel very sorry for the children and don’t think they should suffer the stupidity of their parents. If you can’t afford a couple bucks for lunch everyday, please don’t reproduce. However, when people have no pride in taking care of their own, there should be a stigma. Handouts only beget more handouts when there is no pride.

By FCM

March 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

My ex decided he was not going to pay child support. My rent got hiked. Only my paycheck….I thought, OK I will look at ‘free lunch’ guess what I made 5K too much! My youngest ate a daycare (THANK GOD)…My eldest did eat at school..full price…

You know who didn’t eat? Mama…I don’t regret it…but seriously, some folks who really need it aren’t getting it and those who do get abuse it.

By J

March 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

I am a white, professional college graduate, raised in Cobb County, in a two-parent household, and my parents had jobs all of their lives. Because of my parents’ low income level, I qualified for a reduced price lunch and we had (in the ’80s) different-colored lunch tickets than other students. I usually did not eat lunch because I felt ashamed when other children asked me why my tickets were a different color. I didn’t tell my mother because she was simply trying to get her kids fed and would have also felt ashamed or angry. What makes me sad is that 20 years later kids are still dealing with this same situation…I thought we might have figured this out by now.

By deidre_NC

March 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

you know, sometimes its not the parents fault either-i have been laid off for 2 1/2 months now and can not find a job-i had to put my teen daughter on free lunches and i thank god they are there for her. i only hope all of you holier than thou people who put down ones who are on this program never lose you job-husband-health-whatever- i guess your kids would starve to death before you lower yourselves to get any help. grrrr at you all with this judgemental attitude

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

You are not going to tell these people not to reproduce. It’s what they do.Kids I can’t feed = $ from the gubment.Why spend my money to feed them when the gubment will. It is what’s owed to me for 400 years of opression. Why exercise any personal responsibility when I Can and will DEMAND someone else pay for my existence.There is no shame in soaking up what’s owed.

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Here’s a wakup call to all of you parents.

Say you live in a $150K house and you pay $1000 per year in school taxes. Let’s be generous and say a $250K house with $2000 in taxes. Say you have just 2 kids. Let’s be conservative and say that the state spends $7500 per kid on education. Let’s keep all numbers the same for the 12 years each of the kids is in school. Of course we know that both assessments and taxes will likely go up, but so will state spending. Work with me here - no adjustments are going to really impact this analysis.

So during the course of 1 child’s education, the state will spend $90K. $180K for the 2 kids by the time they are out of high school. Assuming the kids are 1 year apart, you will pay into the tax pool $26K over the course of the 13 years they are in school. You will probably never live there long enough to pay the full bill.

Who is paying the other $154K? That’s practically another house ! I’ll tell you who. Businessmen (who will pass their costs onto consumers - the poor are always hit first by rising prices), the retired folks in the neighborhood (unless their county has an exemption - but you will see shortly why it shouldn’t), the single folks in the neighborhood, and the married without kids. By the way, GA schools are still in the bottom 5 right??? All the rest of this money is coming from income taxes, sales taxes, and every other kind of tax that feeds into the general revenue of the state. Add 2 more kids and now were well over $300K. Nice free lunch don’t you think?

And please don’t tell me that my great property values are because the schools are so great and that’s why I should be happy to pay for your kid’s education. Also don’t pull out the line about how much trouble the kids would be getting into if they didn’t have free schooling. I believe in restitution, and that’s what they would be doing. I’m also not against prison, both for the kids and their irresponsible parents.

So we began this discussion about kids not wanting to eat free lunch because they feel stigma. Why is it nobody feels stigma about the charity program that is the schools themselves?? The socilists have really done a great job havent they.

The government STEALS on your behalf and pays teachers to indoctrimate your kids. They package it up as something everyone is entitled to and you debase your morals and willngly accept it. Homeschooling the only answer.

By FCM

March 4, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Hit ‘enter’ too soon.

In my case both children were under 10…Its my understanding the article/question is about High School people (aka young adults)….

Additionally, in my case I reviewed my options went to the school as a last resort figuring at least then I would know my child got ONE healthy meal a day…in the end the child did, at school and another at dinner at home (cereal at breakfast)…..Still there were many nights I had not had lunch, said I was not hungry then ate off their plates when they went to bed or drank milk or just ate popcorn…..It can be done if necessary….and then when I was able I got a couple of loans and got back on my feet…but I guess that is what makes me have the view I do.

By deidre_NC

March 4, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

ps-my daughter is not treated any differently because of having free lunches. she also isnt embarrassed because she knows i work my tail off to support her. times are rough here in the mountains! (as elsewhere)

By Necie

March 4, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Momof4

WOW!!! I suppose you are independently wealthy and not at risk of EVER experiencing poverty. I make a very good living and my kids have had the luxury of not needing the free lunch program. But with the way the economy is today who knows what may happen! People are losing their homes, their jobs, their livelihood! How can you have such STUPID words to add to this blog? People like you are the reason why children feel so badly about accepting the free lunch. They have to EAT!

I have three kids. My two youngest love it when they brown bag a lunch. My oldest wants to purchase every day. I just make sure they have the money on their account and the rest is up to them to decide. Not all kids have this choice. I am grateful that I can offer it to my children.

I’ve never had to be on the free lunch program growing up. But I knew some children who did. Their parents were not stupid. They were just less fortunate (financially) than I.

I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE BELIEVES THAT “CHARITY” IS THE EQUIVALENT OF “THEFT”!!! What ignorance!!!!!

By Kat

March 4, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

How do some of you posters know which kids use the reduced (or free) meal tickets and which don’t? Do you follow them through the lunch line and then out to the cars in the car-driver lanes to see who gets into which type of car and whether or not it’s a lease versus a paid-in-full car? I’ve never had a free lunch, but I completely understand why some people would need this as an option, especially in today’s job-shaky environment. I think that if we can help members of our community (esp the smallest members), then we should do so without hesitation. Maybe some of you are just jealous of the rides of some folks at pick-up time.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Some of you are forgetting how blessed you are. Nothing is promised and fortune can be fleeting. How about doing what you can for those around you..in your community? Bemoaning free lunches is so trivial..it hurts my heart. The point is not whether these kids and their families deserve it. The point is to do it because it is the right thing to do. We cannot make people use logic or be the way we think they should be. But we can show them that somewhere along the line….someone gave a damn.

By jen

March 4, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

I believe it’s not fair to make children go hungry because of their parent’s shortcomings or extreme circumstances. You know, financial disasters do happen. There are such things as sudden medical problems, job layoffs, incredible rising of cost of living expenses that no one has control over, etc. Some families can not help that dad suddenly got diagnosed with cancer. Parents can get laid off work. Some moms or dads get divorced and refuse to pay child support. What’s a responsible, hard working parent supposed to do who’s footing the entire bill for their children? My point is, sh-t happens, and children shouldn’t go starving all day every day when they have no control over life’s circumstances or parents’ job situations. Now, for those people who obviously have the money(driving the Denalis) and expensive sneakers-to prevent those who would abuse the free/reduced lunch program, the only way to fix that is to get human intelligence involved, if you want a more fair system. Send a case worker to these people to investigate what they have, and can afford. Let them see bank records, or W2 statements, taxes, monthly expenses and see how much money is going toward an expensive car payment, etc, and counsel the parents if the system is being abused. That is the only way to stop or at least reduce freeloaders. Everyone’s situation is different and you never know. As for the people who TRULY need help, I have no problem whatsoever of helping them.

By Necie

March 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty

Uh… In your “calculations”, have you thought of including all of the MANY MANY other taxes and lottery funds that the schools receive??? Stop whining because you own a little business and pay a little bit of tax. It was YOUR choice to have a business of your own!!! GROW UP AND STOP THE WHINING!!! THIS BLOG ISN’T ABOUT YOU AND YOUR COMPLAINTS ABOUT TAXES!!! YOU’RE IN THE WRONG BLOG!

By Producer

March 4, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

The “mean ones” on this post are the freeloaders who insist on seizing the sweat and wealth of others to pay for their own bad choices and irresponsibility. It isn’t anyone’s job but your to pay for your kids, whether it be health care or food.
The non productive will destroy this country.

By Dan

March 4, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

J you might be sad but the experience probably served you well by making you strive to lift yourself. Thats the whole point, not to starve anyone but to illustrate that there is always a price to pay. and the harder you work the less chance of you having to suffer that indignity again

By Producer

March 4, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

Charity is voluntary, taxes are not!

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Necie

I don’t think that charity is the same as theft. Charity is where you get something from someone who has voluntarily given of themselves on your behalf.

THEFT is where the man from the government shows up at your door demanding the money at the point of a gun. This is not a service you voluntarily signed up for, but rather one your neighbors in the majority “signed” you up for through the ballot box and the corruption of the supposed protections of the Bill of Rights.

You, nor the poor family has the right to come to my house and steal money for someone’s lunch. You do not choose to lead a voluntary effort to raise money for a fund to pay for lunches for poor children. Instead, you claim to be peaceloving while employing the guns of the state to STEAL the money from my pocket.

Yes, I can tell the difference. CAN YOU? And can you spot which side of the moral compass you are being supported by???

By Andrea

March 4, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Some of you people are really hateful. It is not the child’s fault that their parents cannot afford lunch. What good does hurting a child do? They did not create the Federal school lunch program. What’s next, tell people who don’t pay property taxes their kids can’t go to school, or maybe we should put renters and apartment dwellers in special schools with less resources since they don’t pay? I am sure some of you would LOVE that idea!

At my child’s school, all the children use their ID number and no one knows if it is free or is their parents have paid using an account. That is the way it should be.

Oh and we do not qualify for free/reduced lunch. But I prefer to send my child’s lunch because it’s healthier for her. She may buy lunch 4-5 times a month. $1.75 is a lot for a picky eater who will just trash her lunch anyway.

By Andrea

March 4, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

At my child’s school, all the children use their ID number and no one knows if it is free or is their parents have paid using an account. That is the way it should be.

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Amen Jesse’s Girl —Fortune is fleeting and we thank God every day that we have good jobs, a roof over our heads, food to eat and clothes to wear. WE are so blessed and we NEVER know when that might change. We try to be prepared but sometimes, somewhere we might need help from others. We try to give help now to those who need it. Who knows what the future holds.

By Liz

March 4, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

I’m not at all surprised by some of the responses to this article.

A few years ago, my ex stopped paying child support. By the time it was all over, he was well over $16,000 behind. I was working full time and doing the best I could. My kids had to utilize the free lunch program…we just didn’t have the money to pay all of our expenses and afford money for lunches. And yes, we got rid of all the extra expenses (cable, cell phones, eating out)and were still strapped every month. I was grateful that they were able to eat hot breakfast and lunches each day. Their school used an account number assigned to each child so that no one knew who was paying full price or receiving free or reduced lunches.

Fast forward a few years…we’ve moved here, I have a great job and am no longer single. The program worked and my kids didn’t feel ashamed. They knew it was only a temporary solution. They are giving kids…they remember having nothing and they give what they can, when they can.

The program worked and helped us.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Producer, you are preaching to the choir. They are taking whats “owed”.This is not going to stop. The free lunches is just a fraction of the “stick it to the man, i’m gettin mine” mentality that’s now epidemic. Attn freeloaders, spare us the “what about the children?” crap! Most of these parasites knew they could’t feed these kids when they had them! Self control is what seperates us from animals.

By on the fence

March 4, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

This is a tough one.

You hate to penalize the child/children for the irresponsibility of the parent (yes, almost always one parent household).

The only sure way to ensure the system is not being abused is to evaluate each and every household to make sure they are in fact eligible for ANY government assistance and have a plan to wean themselves off of generational gov’t dependency (I know, dream on…).

Remember, you need a license to drive a car or fish, but any idiot can conceive a child…

By JJ

March 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

My daughter packs her own lunch every morning. It’s healthier than anything in that school lunchroom, and it’s cheaper and I know she is getting a good solid meal.

Her lunch consists of either a sandwich or a salad (sometimes both), a piece of fruit, and a bottle of water. She takes it in the old fashioned brown bag, and simply throws it away.

The lines at the high school are so long, by the time they get through the line and to their table, the bell rings and they don’t have the time to eat. So that’s a waste of time, food and money.

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Producer:

Before I begin, let me just say that I am on my lunch hour. I work for the state of Georgia. I work very hard for the state of Georgia, but I barely make $20,000 a year. I am a single mother and my child receives “free-lunch.” She is also a straight A student. Her teachers rave about how much they enjoy having her in their class. Sure, I could have made better choices when I was younger. I could have tried a little harder to find funding for my education. I could have chosen a better man to make a child with. But, I didn’t do those things, and I can’t change that. I am not lazy. I come to work everyday, and put my absolute best forward. I make sure my daughter does her homework and understands what she has learned. My personal motto is “Anything worth doing is worth doing well!” and I teach that philosophy to my child. Please don’t try to stereotype those who receive assistance as being lazy and unproducing because that is just simply ignorance. Let’s just hope that you never find yourself in a bad situation, and need a little help yourself!

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I got so caught up in that one statement that I forgot to say what I wanted to say.

Why are we serving fast-food and “food of minimal nutritional value” in schools in the first place? When I went to high school, you weren’t even allowed to bring any food that was “not of the brown-bag variety.” And, that’s quoting the handbook!!

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

deidre_NC

By the way, don’t get me wrong. I give a significant amount of my income to both charitable causes that I can deduct as well as other causes that cannot be deducted. I might even consider giving money freely so that these kids could have a hot lunch, but guess what? Nobody has ever asked me.

Rather than risk finding out that this cause does not rise to the level of importance in my life that something else does, or that I might not find the cause worthy on its own merit, those who only know how to do good through violence have chosen to just have government come take the money from me instead. Having already given tens of thousands of dollars to worthless school systems to educate children I don’t have (while my mother worked 2 jobs to be able to afford private school for me (along with the stolen money for the government schools), I find it quite annoying to pay for meals too.

AS for Necie, boy I really hit a nerve. All along you thought that putting your kids in government school was just about as american as apple pie. Nobody every told you that you were just a thief or at best, the recipient of stolen property did they?? Truth hurts doesn’t it? And by the way, all those other taxes, they are just more violence inflicted on other people or businesses. I see you hate business in general. I don’t own a business, but I know how costs are transferred. Poor first, then the middle class, then the rich. Sad but true. And as for the lottery, just another scam to con the poor out of their money on the false promise that they can actually become rich without hard work.

Government doesn’t produce anything. Any money they get is through an act of violence (theft). And by the way, if we are going to be talking about “free lunches”, then a discussion about the biggest free lunch of them all - a 12-year government education - is certainly appropriate. Maybe you just need to get thicker skin, or begin homeschooling. Nothing I am saying is incorrect.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

My comments are addressed to the millions of people who are abusing the program that was designed to help those who truly need it. It’s the fraud, the lifestyle of the worthless ones who play the system that has me and the others upset. I’m tired of being forced to support those who aren’t my responsibility.

By Brandon

March 4, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

This apparent hate towards making sure that every child has a chance and does not follow in the footsteps of their “freeloading” parents is appalling. Children are not responsible for their parent’s mistakes or financial situation. I personally applaud parents that push their kids to do the best they can in any environment to move them forward, and pushing them away from their mistakes.

I received free lunch until seventh grade. My grades were fine, I was on the honor roll, and I had the chance to go to the best high school in Atlanta. There, I took home many trophies in competitive debate and went to nationals three out of the four years there. I also was editor in chief of the school’s nationally recognized literary magazine (which was recognized again the year i was editor), an associate editor with the school’s newspaper (which received the high school world’s equal to the pulitzer prize years in a row), and served as stage manager/actor in three major productions. I’ve worked for a major theater, and am now managing an interactive agency.

In short, before we get into blaming the kid for freeloading off of the system, look at the potential we unlock by making sure that kids aren’t distracted by how hungry they might be at school and have them focusing on learning.

My family is in a better place overall, and I’d like to say I’ve earned that free lunch.

By jen

March 4, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Let’s take the advise of “if you can’t afford it then don’t have kids” statement. Ok, a family has two kids and both parents have great jobs. They all use no programs or handouts. Suddenly, mom gets in a car wreck, and is in a coma, and stays that way for who knows how long. The family has lost half their income, the father suddenly has to use the food program at school. Would you tell that dad “you shouldn’t have had kids” with your nose stuck up in the air? What about the family who’s business got destroyed in a natural disaster one day. Would you say the same to that parent? If everyone was so concerned about “what ifs”-I may lose my job/lose my insurance/lose my health so I won’t ever risk it and have kids, then our population would all voluntarily get sterilized and our species would die out. Then no youth would be around to pay for social security. Every parent is a hero.

By FCM

March 4, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Charity is by the grace of God…yes through hardworking people…..Yes, I did try for the lunch program……Yes, Mr. Lib is right taxes are a robin hood method.

Yes horrible things happen (illness, job reductions)…no the kids should not be made to pay on the flip side…nothing is ‘owed’ to these kids….not even to my own when we went through it….

@Andrea…..My rent includes an amount to pay property taxes on the Apt Complex…..what do you mean I do not contribute to my schools…Plus SPLOST, and fundraisers…..sheeesh all my being in the shape I was in was appreciate things more….and teach my kids to appreciate them too.

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Andrea,

First a quick point. Renters and appartment dwellers pay school taxes indirectly through their landlords (the landlords pay the taxes and pass the cost on).

That being said, my point is why doesn’t everyone pay for their own kids’ education? Why should someone who lives in a more expensive house pay more for the schools? Why someone in a smaller house pay less? From each according to his ability , to each according to his need? - Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto.

We spend so much money during the 20th century to fight communism and socialism only to lie to ourselves and pretend that government schools are not the last great bastion of socialism left on the planet.

Why should the rest of us subsidize this breeding program. How will any parent learn any sense of responsibility if they never have to be accountable for all the costs of thier child? Why should any child or parent actually “value” a government education when it has no value???? Or is that really at the heart of the problem?

By Jan

March 4, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

How do “they” know that the kids who qualify for free lunches but aren’t taking them are going without lunch? We qualified when I was in high school but we paid for our own. We would have counted as one family who qualified but wasn’t on the handout list.

Perhaps the kids don’t want the “good for you” lunch. They had rather have the junk food. Even thought they qualify for the freebie, they are finding the money for the junk food.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Jen, please,please spare us the “not everyone is abusing the system” crap. Welcome to Georgia, not everyone is, just 99 out of 100.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Well, Jen, let’s see. The mom in the coma should have disability insurance to cover the fact that she’s out of work in addition to the health insurance to cover her hospitalization. the business destroyed in Noah’s flood should have had insurance to protect it from that scenario. Those who are responsible have those avenues covered. What other ways should the gov’t bail you out?

By Todd

March 4, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Sorry, but life went on for thousands of years for the 1960’s. Sorry, but children did not starve to death even before they were fed for free.

Welfare is not the answer. We had to pay to ride the school bus (several states still do this) and we had to pay for lunch.

Now I see all the bums at my school and kids having kids. Kids with their cell phones, ipods, and nike shoes buying their $1.00 sodas and ice cream at school—but oh, they can’t afford to buy a lunch.

I worked as a cashier during college and WIC checks and EBT cards are used and abused. Amazing the lotto tickets you can buy and alcohol and cigarettes with the money you do not have since you cannot afford food …

By sprinkles

March 4, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

As a sub teacher, I sometimes have to monitor lunches. It is so sad to see some of the gross looking garbage they pass off as lunch. These choices are awful and many kids skip these entrees and choose their favorites. Kids load up on potatoes, pretzels, cheese sauce, bagels & cream cheese, chips and do not choose any items with protein. Come on in and “observe” a classroom after the kids have just had lunch and you will see most of the kids in “carb comas” ready to take a nap. How is anyone supposed to learn in this environment?

By sprinkles

March 4, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

By jana

March 4, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

I’ve noticed that several people on the blog have talked about being out of work for years or months at a time. McDonalds, wal-mart, etc… are always hiring. Rather than complaining that you can’t find work and therefore can’t afford anything, (and therefore deserve things for free) why not take a minimum wage job to help out with the finances until you are able to find a better job.

By ben

March 4, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Our school board solved the problem by giving all kids free lunch and breakfast. Not bad for rural GA.

By jen

March 4, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Rusty, spare us the biased, one-sided crap. Give evidence and statistics before you give your own personal opinion.

By Teacher, Too

March 4, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry if I re-post; I hit a wrong button!

There is no stigma in elem and middle schools. Kids key in their number and no one knows, except for the cafe worker.

However, there are substantial abuses in the free/reduced lunch program. Only about 10% of applications get checked- there are too many to check out and it’s time consuming. So, many families who ordinarily would not qualify end up getting free/reduced because parents are not truthful on their apps.

Now, one other thing I have noticed in middle school— almost all students have a cell phone, money for vending, candy and gum, ect… My school is 50% free and reduced, but I would say that at least 75% of students have cell phones, money for vending, gum/candy— where are the priorities?

I have compassion and empathy for those kids who truly are in need of free/reduced lunch. Those are the kids who eat their lunch and never complain about it. They are thankful for their meal.

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

That’s a nice cop-out! Before you generalize your target, just keep in mind that your recommendation not only penalizes the millions of children whose parents are lazy and irresponsible, you are also penalizing those who do deserve assistance.

For those who feel that people should not have children they can’t afford, maybe you would be in favor of a bill that says a permit must be granted to couples who wish to reproduce. Sounds a bit like Communist China to me.

By Dan

March 4, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Brandon your comment suggests that those that don’t agree with you, hate the kids and don’t wish to see them succeed. In reality the act of coddling (kids or adults) is what perpetuates the failure. Those who endeavor to completely shield children from the realities of the world are hurting them as much as any negligent parent.
“One of the serious obstacles to the improvement of our race is indiscriminate charity.” Andrew Carnegie “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ” herbert Spencer

Shielding the children from the folly of their parents might make you feel better but it does not really help the child

By not a good choice

March 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Bad luck will come to those that frown upon the needy.

By Andrea

March 4, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

FCM, I was being sarcastic when I said that renters don’t pay. I realize that even though you don’t get a property tax bill, you pay it through rent.

But many people do not realize this and it’s one of the reason’s they want to eliminate school property taxes and go to a sales tax instead.

Some people who seem to hate everyone who does not look, think or have the same income/home as them, seem to want to look down on everyone else and assume that every person who does not live in a huge home is not paying their fair share.

They are the ones who look at what the people in front of them at the store are buying and try to see how they are paying for it. In case “those” people are wasting “their” money.

By jen

March 4, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

producer, my point is, crap happens. Not all jobs provide all this insurance. Many jobs make good money but have no insurance, ie, contractor positions. If everyone should be so responsible as you say, then we would have no contractors, along with half the job sector. I believe that people should only accept help in worst case scenarios, and try their best to avoid it. I don’t believe in being a freeloader from the government. But I do believe that some people do come across unfortunate circumstances.

By Blind Homer

March 4, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Anyone applying for public assistance, ADC, food stamps, free lunch, whatever, should, at a minimum, be sterilized and forced to wear a scarlett “P” for poor or poverty so the rest of us will know who these people are.

By Chris

March 4, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Here is what I do not understand. Why are schools in the food business? Parents, no matter how bad off they have it financially, the gov. makes sure they have food through the food stamp program, WIC, or some other program. Every child should be “brown bagging” it everyday. The schools have NO business in the food service business.

BTW Mr Liberty: I totally agree with you. Taxes are a form of theft by an agency with the army to back it up. True Libertarian thought.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

No Sabrina, what we seek to do is STOP ourselves from becoming Communist China. When we have these middle school girls popping out babies (besides the fact some of our middle school kids are 18!), when we have 9th grade girls tell me they have pregnant so they can get on EBT, then we are socializing. COMMUNISM. They get on welfare, get minimum housing costs, get free food, and then have plenty of time to mistreat their kids by buying fat, fried chicken, beer, cigarettes, and lotto tickets. Then they go out and weigh 200 lbs dressed like they are 16, and buy their kids several pairs of $150 Nike shoes, give them money to buy lard sodas at school and still get candy.

By don

March 4, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

well, this is obviously a hot-button topic. let me start off by saying i am married and have 4 kids. my oldest two are in school and recieve reduced lunch, we also get WIC for the younger two. i live in a rent-controlled apartment. i work 40hours a week for roughly 30k a year. my wife stays home with the younger two simply because: 1.paying for day care would cost more than she would be able to earn. 2. we feel it’s important for at least one of us to be there with our children raising them every day. neither of us drive “pimped-out” escalades. i drive a ford ranger i paid 2,000 for about 3 yrs ago, my wife drives a ford focus station wagon that was handed down from her dad (thank God for him). my kids are also on medicaid because the wonderful health plan my company offers would cost more than half of what i make each month. i guess by all definition i am a freeloader/welfare/scumbag parent. but let me just assure the self-righteous that read this that i am trying to better myself. i served 6 yrs in the army including multiple tours in iraq and afghanistan. i’m now working on my bachelor’s degree using my GI Bill and Pell Grant (love those handouts). I also worked 2 years in law enforcement to support my family, but quit that to take the job now and get a pay raise. I just want to take this opportunity to reassure all of you hard-working people that my kids are very well-manered. my wife and i do our best to make sure they will become contributing members of society. the older two make straight A’s and my third is learning to read and do math before she starts kindergarten next year (and gets reduced lunches). none of them wear expensive $100 shoes as some have mentioned. 99% of the clothes they wear come from target or walmart clearance racks. i buy summer clothes in the winter and vice-versa to save money. oh, i’d also like to apologize for the time i spent serving this country in the military and in law enforcement since my check came from tax funds at the time, i guess i was freeloading then and didn’t realize it. i’d like to thank all of you for paying your taxes all those years so i could recieve a pay check. but most of all i’d like to thank you all for showing me the kind of people i DON’T want my kids to be. greedy, self-centered, mis-informed, uncompassionate. hopefully with a little luck i can teach them to take care of those around them when they’re in need.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

For the “contractor” argument, tell your wife to get off her 300 lb rear end and get a job a Public. They offer full insurance to their cashiers.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

It’s not the job of the employer to provide insurance, Jen. I’m a contractor and I buy my own disability and health insurance. I make priorities as to what’s important to spend my money on and taking care of other people’s irresponsible actions isn’t one of them.

By don

March 4, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

By posterchild

March 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Funny story… 95% of the students I teach are on free/reduced lunch, yet they seem to have $2.50 for ice cream and a bottle of vitamin water most days, and quite a few of them have some extra nice clothes. I’m all about kids eating, but I am not in favor of abusing the system.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Don, for a guy to have it as together as you claim my only question to you would be..Why did you have the second kid when you couldn’t afford the first one? Not to mention 3 and 4? I’ll repeat.. Self control is what seperates us from animals.

By Mark

March 4, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

If you can’t afford to spawn, then don’t. I can’t afford to pay for your snotty nosed brat’s lunches!!

By Ina Sexton

March 4, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

The elementary school system my grandchildren attend provides breakfast and lunch free for all students. This doesn’t help the middle/high school students, but it’s a move in the right direction.

By Brandon

March 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Dan, it’s not indiscriminate charity that’s happening here. It’s being given to people that need it. Lunch is not coddling, in my opinion, it’s curving grades, changing the tests, and cutting budgets in an academic race to the bottom. Giving someone a tool is not the same as essentially giving away an education.

No parent is trying to shied their child, just make them better prepared through education. I was never protected from the world, but I was better prepared to deal with it than my parents were at that time in their lives.

By Jana

March 4, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Don, thank you for serving. I don’t think that is said enough to our military men and women.

By Brian

March 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Make no mistake about it - reduced price lunches is a form of welfare. There should be a stigma placed on not being able to make your own way in the world. The stigma is on the parents. To not have it that way encourages generations of being ‘on the dole’. That said, it is NOT the kids fault and it is a mistake (and cruel) to let them go hungry. They are more likely to do better in school with a better diet vs. going hungry and potentially break the cycle.

Things can happen in life. This is America. We can afford to help hungry children (and can’t afford not to). However, if you really read most of the comments ala “I messed up, didn’t go to college, had a kid with a loser, and now poor me can’t afford to feed my kids through no fault of my own” it just isn’t true. Short term hand up? Kind of ok. Long term solution - only for losers. Hard truth, but truth nonetheless.

By DCResident

March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

We don’t even need free lunch here in America. If a parent can’t feed a child, then isn’t it reasonable to assume that the parent doesn’t need custody of the child? No child should go hungry. If a child is on free lunch, his mom probably gets food stamps. His mom should make his lunch if he is to embarassed to eat the free lunch.

By jen

March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

I see your point producer. Although, do you think you could still afford all that when gas goes to $4/gallon and the cost of everything else goes up with it? I think it would be great if everyone could afford all their own insurance. I believe that the entreprenural spirit in America is needed to come up with a solution to the rising gas prices, (maybe sugar based gas, if we go by Brazil’s example) so that we keep prices in check, and tax reform so more people could afford their own insurance. I do believe we should tax less and allow more privatized insurance and healthcare. But, thr reality is, many people can’t afford 4 diferent types of insurance. Many make a decent living at 40, 50K but still have to choose between paying for rent or paying for insurance.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

I agree. I understand people making mistakes. But we do not seek to help these people, but ENCOURAGE it. We reward them for popping out more babies.

Amazing how many moms at the school I teach at have so many kids by different dads. We have girls in the same grade with same dad/different moms! We have boys in same grade with different dads (that is making it close …)

So parental irresponsibility should not be the fault of the taxpayer. Unfortunately, it has become.

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

I move to sterilize Mark and Rusty! God forbid that their self-control should ever falter, and they continue to pollute our gene pool with arrogance, intolerance, and stupidity!

By Producer

March 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

It’s a step in the freeloader direction. Why does the school provide those meals? Isn’t that what your grandchildren’s parents are for? It doesn’t help those of us forced with the burden of feeding those kids.

By Ina

March 4, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

It seems that alot of you have such a low self esteem that you have to put down others to make yourself look good. It doesn’t. So what if people need alittle help? It doesn’t make them bad people, and to be honest, I’ve always found that it’s the people with money who are rude and greedy. Money doesn’t make you a good person, and you’re all showing just what kind of people you are. This article was about kids who needed help and you turned it into a circus. No wonder the kids need help.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Sabrina, if my self control should ever falter, it won’t falter 4 times.Typical. How dare anyone have a problem paying for other peoples irresponsibility. Speaking of gene pool pollution, you apparently have no problem with parasites. That’s not pollution?

By Todd

March 4, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Idiocracy is coming true …

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

DC RESIDENT

The problem with your theory is that even though there are many people who want children and can afford children, but cannot have children, there are not enough to foster every needy child in America. If you take children away from parents simply because they are poor what you will end up with is millions of children in orphanages receiving who knows what kind of care. Not to mention that tax-payers would still end up paying for those children anyway.

By catlady

March 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

I can tell you that there is very little verification that takes place. Most people do not have to PROVE any part of their application, including income and family size. The program is taken advantage of. No money for lunch but money for school snacks.

When I was in school kids on free lunch “earned” part of their lunch by working—pushing a broom, washing dishes, etc.

I have never been in a school in “modern times” that had any sort of designation or special line for free lunch students. In fact, teachers were not even allowed to code in their roll books the child’s lunch status, altho we had to turn in our lunch count each day as “free, reduced, paid, and brought lunch”. Had to go by memory as to who was what.

At our school, we have kids who have amassed literally hundreds of dollars in charges whose parents never apply for free lunch and never pay, and the kids are fed the same lunch as the paying ones day after day and year after year. At some schools they give the kids pbjs and a milk until they pay for their charges, but not at my school. So the paying parents are subsidizing these kids in addition to the taxes they pay.

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Wow Sabrina, thankfully there aren’t too many more like you out there.

I suggest that people should have to be responsible for their actions and you think that’s as bad as forcing people to get a permit to have a child. There is little doubt that you attended government schools. Not a single logic class ever I bet.

Maybe you haven’t noticed, but there is a limited amount of resources available. Food is not free. Housing is not free, clothing is not free. What exactly is the problem with making everyone be responsible for the children they produce or the other actions they take in life? Why should I be penalized for making smart, responsible decisions? Why should more money be stolen from me because Sally down the street can’t keep her legs together? If Sally wishes to come to me for assistance, fine, but why should she be allowed to take a gun or have the govt. use its guns to steal from me? Answer that question and then we can have a rational discussion.

Most of us wish to stay away from communism because permits for children are the natural consequence. The same with socialized medicine. When the resource costs nothing - free lunch, free school, free children, then there is overconsumption of the resource. People get used to the free lunch so they make less money so they can still qualify. They go to the doctor whenever they feel like it, rather than when they really need to. They don’t look into alternative therapies that maybe cost them, because the traditional approach is free. They don’t limit the number of kids to that which they can reasonably afford, since someone else is picking up the check. The Chinese had to place limits because their socialist economy, versus our free market economy would never have been able to feed, clothe, etc. everyone when everyone was breeding as if everything was “free”. And after all, in a communist society isn’t everything “free” somehow?

Stop with the rhetoric and discuss facts.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

We need to support voluntary tube-tying and clipping of the testes. As a taxpayer, I support paying every welfare loser $20,000 tax free cash to get them tied or clipped.

That will save us fortunes. And trust me, the losers will be in line at whatever age we allow to get it done.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Ina, money does not make you a good person, anymore than “needing a little help” makes you a good person. I’ll tell you what money does do though..It enables you to pay your OWN WAY! How dare me to have a problem paying for other peoples mistakes. This is America people remember?Land of opportunity remember? Anyone listening or just waiting for the sound of the mailmanpulling up?

By Theresa

March 4, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

hey Guys — I want to draw your attention to today’s Get Schooled blog by Laura Diamond. It’s talking about whether Georgia should restart it’s elementary foreign language program. Is it worth $20 million for elementary school kids to learn Spanish, Chinese or French. Check it out at http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/education/ or you can always hit the Get Schooled link on the right side of our page.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Sabrina, Are you STILL on your lunch hour that you started at 1:30? LOL! Are y’all hiring?

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

All I am saying is that the solutions that some of you have come up with are not plausible. Announcing your disdain for the beggar, and wagging your finger isn’t going to stop the parasitical free-loaders!!! And, I don’t feel that children should be made to suffer for their parents mistakes. Your proposition to resolve this problem may as well be to drag all of those kids and their parents out into the street and shoot them. The only problem with that is next week or next month or next year when you get your pink slip or your business goes under, will you be lining up at the welfare office to take your bullet to the head?

By Angela

March 4, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

WIC is not need based….ANYONE pregnant or that has a child under the age of 5 gets it….. Oh and Dan….I did read your entire post….I just think you are way off. Not eating doesn’t stop the teasing, but it does get them out of the cafeteria so they can avoid it. How are they supposed to build any human capital while starving in class? The stigma has to be stopped. Talk about stereotyping…..when was the last time you stepped foot in a high school or middle school?

By Mark

March 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

I’m with Rusty. Why squirt out kids you can’t afford? Keep your legs closed, w*******! Why should I pay for your stupidity?

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

As a matter of fact, I’m not. But, I have processed 100 files since my lunch hour ended. How about you Producer? Have you produced anything in the last two hours besides inciting anger, hatred and fear that could potentially crush the spirit and dreams of millions of children? :)

By Producer

March 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Low self esteem? The low self esteem comes from the tapeworms who won’t work, not those of us who pay our own way…and yours!

By jmc

March 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Producer - As an insurance agent - I couldn’t have said that one better. On the other hand, these children recieving free lunches today, will one day be paying for our government programs. In reality, the majority will overcome poverty (just like most of us) and be an asset to society. So we have to pay for their free lunch - so what. If our taxes weren’t going for that they’d just give it to the illegals. They’re going to get their % of your income no matter what is cut or controlled. They are also going to spend in whatever way they want. That’s the way it’s always been and that’s the way it will remain.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Sabrina,no one is saying we should let the kids go hungry. What we (I) am saying is that we clamp down on entitlement abusers. If some people wan’t to scream racism or whatever, at this point who cares. The system is being blatently abused, and it has/is going to stop.The producers/contributors in this great society are only going to allow their generosity and good will taken advantage for so long. Ever heard of the Boston tea party? It’s called a revolt.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Thank you for serving your country Don. She’s right…it can never be said enough.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Todd, 20k? My vet will spay and neuter for under $100!

By lunchmeathead

March 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

my question to the “it’s Uncle Sam’s responsibility to feed the hungry” crowd is; what becomes of the “unused” lunches? As much as I lament the fact that children do not choose their (deadbeat) parents, this is just another example of government waste (redundant). it’s very simple, if a student is ashamed to eat a free or reduced lunch, that student has made a choice. what happened to “my body/my choice”? The idea of “debit cards” or “cashless lines” is pathetic. there is no shame in being poor, but there is shame in pretending you’re not.

By JJ

March 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Mark Thank you for your nice refreshing comments. Always a pleasure to read your insightful and helpful comments. Any why are you on a Parent blog?

Angela Not ANYONE can get WIC. I’ll admit, when I was first divorced 16 years ago, with a 1 year old child, and Mr. Deadbeat Dad didn’t want to pay child support, I applied for WIC. They told me that I made too much money ($21,000/yr at that time) to be eligible for WIC.

By Dondee

March 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Not knocking the need for school lunches, because it does exist, but I can think of two examples of those who abuse the program. One, a student of mine who was on free and reduced, but wore some of the nicest clothes you ever saw, lived in a middle class neighborhood, and both parents worked. Another example…..a friend of my daughter’s, family from a foreign country, was on free and reduced. This girl never wore the same clothes twice, was a cheerleader (by the way a very expensive sport/activity), and lived in a neighborhood of $300,000 homes. These examples of abuse make it more difficult to feel kindly towards those who receive lunch. Not saying there isn’t a need, but there is definitely abuse out there.

By jen

March 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

hope you guys on here have been snipped cause if not that would make you hypocrites. its not all on the womans backs to burden all that responsbility.if yur gonna say don’t spread your legs then I’m gonna say keep it in your pants.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Sabrina, I had to run to get a Kleenex. I’m ok now. Whew! The only ones crushing the spirit of those millions of angels you so eloquently spoke of are their sorry a**ed parents who continue to suck the life blood out of the rest of us.

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Well, on that point, I will agree with you Rusty. But if you are going to present the problem, then propose an effective solution.

?????

By HS Teacher Too

March 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

I agree, on the surface, that the proverbial free lunch only perpetuates the cycle of free lunches. However, let’s take that out on the people who are responsible for that. The kids are not at fault. On the other hand, getting the free lunch may still perpetuate the cycle as kids may think of it as an entitlement.

This is a tough question, and I might hurt myself sitting on this fence here. I know there are some who always will ruin it for the many, and I know all-too-well the kinds of kids who proudly get free lunch. Taking them out of the equation, I think it’s more important to feed the kids than to teach them this particular lesson in this manner… we should focus on teaching that lesson through other means. Knowing that kids won’t eat because of a stigma, and encouraging that stigma by failing to act, is ultimately cruel.

So, do we have a problem of a cycle we don’t want to perpetuate? Yes. Absolutely.

Is encouraging the stigma, at the expense of kids who may be innocent victims, the solution? No.

I’m typically conservative and heartless but in this case, we need to focus on finding a solution to the bigger problem (how the kids got there to begin with) and not on the side-effect of the problem (free lunches as an entity). Let the kids eat without stigma.

By nurse&mother

March 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

@Don Imus- The only reason Chris mentioned his income, is because others have implied that the free/reduced lunch program is a vicious cycle. He is merely dispelling the myth. Apparantly, your income far outweighs your number of brain cells.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah, producer, but you have to sucker these welfare bums in first. I teach special ed, and it costs $16,000 a year in my county per child. About $8,000 per regular student. So forking up $20,000 to bride a loser to get them tied or clipped so we have no more bums and mouths to feed will be well worth it.

Then they can go spend the money and help us who have jobs!

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Lunchmeathead,good call!lemme go back to my 10:45 post and I quote “The problem I do have is the Food stamp/wic vouchers disguised as credit cards. The little black ones with the peaches on it. Watch them at wal-mart with a load of groceries that we can�t afford bejeweled in the �bling� as they swipe that card like it�s a Visa gold card and DARE you to have a problem with it. No shame at all.

By don

March 4, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

I think Rusty, Mark, and the gang are right. We should institute a state-sponsored population control program. Nazi Germany did it, and Communist China requires permits and additional taxes for families with more than one child. If it worked for those wonderful nations why not do it here? As for why I have 4 kids i can’t afford, that’s a great question. I guess if I had to respond I’d say that the first three were born when I was in the Army getting that free gov’t healthcare that they provide. The 4th wasn’t really planned, but since the gubment says i can’t just throw him in a garbage can I have to keep him. I could blame my family hist’ry for my dependence on the guvmint. I have two aunts that were on big bad guvment handouts for a time, but they’re both RNs now working in ERs and paying taxes dutifully. I’m not going argue the fact that there are people who abuse the system. What I will say though is there are alot of families that legitimately need the help. Brave men and women that stand on the walls keeping guard over the kingdom so ignorant people like us can get online and rail about how unfair our government taxes are. Military families, firefighters, police, teachers, and others that dedicate themselves to performing a vital public service for each of us so that the CEOs of Coke and Delta can earn 20mil every year.

By disgusted

March 4, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Some of you “holier than EVERYONE ELSE” posters are disgusting. Your beliefs are the types I share with my children so they’ll remember that there are also lousy people in this world. Then I’ll remind them that they are being brought up to have compassion for others. Whether you grew up a child of priviledge or a child of poverty, somewhere along the line you obviously have learned the art of looking down your nose at others less fortunate. Never will I allow my children to think like you.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Sabrina, without supply, there is no demand. Do the math.

By nurse&mother

March 4, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

@Mr. Liberty- I bet you don’t realize that those families with no children or elderly folks that no longer have school age children are indirectly paying for future doctors, lawyers, nurses, police men/women (and the list goes on and on). Maybe it doesn’t seem fair to you, but I would be interested to see what would happen if parents had to pay for their child’s education up to college. I would be willing to bet that you would see a reduction in valuable jobs (jobs that gasp- even you depend on).

By Sabrina

March 4, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Dondee…

I do agree that abusers of the system should be punished. Can someone please just tell me how you recommend doing that. I work for the state but not the DHR so help me out. How exactly do all of you intend to accomplish this?

By Todd

March 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Don, I am a captain in the Georgia Army National Guard, so stop whining that you were in the military. Service in the Armed Forces does not grant you the right to be a leach because you decide to be one of the many who pop out babies they cannot afford.

The healthcare we get in the military is for just that—MILITARY. Tricare/Champus is not designed to follow you. You popped them out and now can’t take care of them. That is your fault.

I teach at a public school and witness so many military brats who don’t even know who their daddy is, I guess because they used your logic. Women with three different kids with three different soldier “baby-daddies.” It is not my fault you decided to pop them out and then get out of a job that was supporting them.

As for the 4th kid, learn something called BIRTH CONTROL. That kinda helps …

By Lucky Yankee

March 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Obviously, there are genuine cases where free lunches are needed. As a former lunch monitor in a school with a 67% free lunch rate, the most galling thing that I have witnessed has to be the recipients of free lunches getting the lunch (because the cafeteria has to make sure that they actually get the food or risk government reprimand) and throwing the whole tray away because they had lunch visitors bring them a fast food lunch, at least once week, many more often than that. The parents or caregivers of free lunch recipients don’t have a clue about nutrition or give a you-know-what that the taxpayers subsidize the lunches (and breakfasts at my school). They pass their skewed values on to the children. And, by the way, how do they qualify for free lunches in the first place when they can scrape together enough money for fast food? And I’ll never forget the time I went for a mani/pedi and sat next to a woman proudly showing off her engagement ring to another person. “When are you getting married?” she was asked. “In about 15 years,” she laughed. “I can’t afford to get married and give up free lunches for my kids.” God help us.

By Ina

March 4, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Producer, I think you are just a miserable person who wants to see everyone else miserable as well. Get over yourself.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Don, Nazi Germany, China? Nice try. If that’s liberal for personal responsibility then ok. The “free” gov’t healthcare that “they” provide is not free. The “they” you speak of are the taxpayres.Where you were and what you were doing doesn’t explain your inability to support your own children or were you just gonna wait for “they” to pick up that bill too? “I could blame my family history”. It’s always someone else’s fault isn’t it?

By nurse&mother

March 4, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Beware all those folks that think that you are doing so well right now and that nothing can happen to you. The economy is starting to stink and it will only get worse before it gets better. No one knows how long it will take to recover or how long it will last. Just look at the Great Depression. My husband is self employed and has a lot of commercial buildings. Right now we have several that are not renting. We have a lot of property and buildings that we could sell if times get too tough, but if no one is buying, who is going to buy our property if we need to liquidate? Five years ago this would not have even been fathomable. But now it is a possibility. Hopefully we will never be in that dire straights, but never say never.

For those of you that think , “well I am not self employed. I have a great paying job” or “well I make a six figure income”. I hate to burst your bubble, but when the economy gets bad, it effects everyone. Employers tighten down and lay off people. Pride cometh before the fall.

By jeff

March 4, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

just going by the spelling I see on this board, plenty of you must have been too hungry to pay attention in class!

By Ina

March 4, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Once more to producer - you don’t pay my way. I and my family are perfectly capable of that. My grandchildren do not get free lunch because we can’t afford it, they get it because the schools provide it to EVERYONE - as I said before. So don’t even go there. You don’t do jack for me OR my family.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

No, Ira, it’s just parasites who make me “miserable.” Nice try at the psychology, though.

By jen

March 4, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

don, thank you so much for your service to our country. I commend you for also being a good father and doing your best to support those children. Thanks for putting your life on the line for all of us.I am truly greatful and YOU deserve someone buying you a free lunch.

By Todd

March 4, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Ina, that “free lunch” comes from somewhere. I know this is difficult to comprehend, but food trays and the lunch on them do not just grow on trees behind the school.

Your county may be forking up some money through the Board, but the state and even more so the U.S. Department of Education subsidizes more than you think.

So yes, producer is paying for that food, and so am I.

By linda

March 4, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Those kids who skip lunch certainly deserve to be hungry! If they cannot be bothered to bring their own lunch to avoid the issue then I can’t say I have any pity for them. (Bread and peanut butter is CHEAP.) However, what concerns me is the growing number of children on FRL. It is clear that when someone like Don, who obviously puts in an honest day’s work, cannot feed his family something is wrong in our culture. I think that businesses don’t pay people what they are worth because they know the government will kick in and help. We should be revolting at how cheapened our labor has become. Our government should be embarrassed about how many soldiers receive food stamps. I couldn’t agree more that schools do not need to be in the food business. Ending that is the simple and obvious solution to solve MANY problems. Sure, folks would complain for awhile but then they’d get used to planning ahead and the extra thinking would probably lead to a more healthful eating experience for everyone. (The charity groups could then come in and focus on the truly needy children and give help to them with parental consequences.)

By nurse&mother

March 4, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Thank you Don for serving our country. The government doesn’t give our armed services enough pay for putting your life on the line every day to serve our country.

By Producer

March 4, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

I love the ‘tude of “don’t EVENNNNNN go there.” That’s cute. Ina, who do you think pays for those lunches for “everyone” including your grandchildren? The taxpayers, hon, of which you are probably one, just like me.

By MrLiberty

March 4, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

Sabrina,

You give yourself away when you immediately run to the welfare office when things go bad.

What’s the problem with a private charity? I am certainly not saying that everyone has the potential to have something bad happen to them. Charitable giving is a noble thing, and acceptance of charity is something anyone should do with the humblest of hearts and the greatest sense of thanks.

When you set up a government shop for handouts you foster a culture of people who end up finding it easier to deal with the system then actually support themselves.

If you can’t tell the difference between charity (voluntarily given, voluntarily received), and Welfare (or any government handout) - stolen from one group and given to another, then you need to start your education there.

By don

March 4, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Todd,

First off I thank you for your service in the Guard as well as teaching. You do a tremendous service for the public and I am grateful.

However, let me take exception to your comments. I’m not in the least “whining” about being in the military. I’m extremely proud of my service and grateful that I had the chance to serve. As for walking away from a job that was supporting my family, I absolutely did walk away and I don’t blame anyone else for it. After my 5th deployment to a combat zone and 3yrs and 2 months total missed time with my family, I felt it was time to walk away. Totally my decision. I’d be happy to have a higher-paying job that would better allow me to take care of mine. That’s why I’m going to school, slowly working toward that goal. As for the birth control, I have indeed heard of it. Have indeed used it. But you know how it’s only 99.9% effective? Guess I fell in that 0.1%.

My original point in all of this is:

The free lunch/welfare/medicaid/whatever system is not perfect. There are people that abuse it. There will always be people that abuse it. There are also people that legitimately need help. I agree 100% with personal responsiblility, and if it was decided that my kids would no longer get medicaid or reduced lunch, I’d find a way to provide what they need. But in the meantime, when I have the opportunity to get help I need, I’m going to take it.

By don

March 4, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Todd,

First off I thank you for your service in the Guard as well as teaching. You do a tremendous service for the public and I am grateful.

My original point in all of this is:

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Disgusted, buddy who are you to judge anyone? You think that because some of us recognize and call out entitlemant abuse that we are somehow just heartless? I donate money to several charaties every year voluntarily. Key word there.Nursemom, It’s true that servicemen,police and firefighters do not recieve the compensation they deserve, but they know this going in. It’s called living within your means. OMG!

By motherjanegoose

March 4, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Congrats Theresa…you have a HOT topic here. My husband and I were JUST talking about this as he went to visit his dying Grandma in Kansas and the rest of the crew. HIs Dad was a Vietnam Vet and they had 4 kids within 6 years. When he retired…he did just that …sat around and drank ( he is an alcoholic…and a possible chance because of the war circumstances). When the kids were in Jr. High and High School, they all were on FREE lunch. Each time he goes back home, it reminds him of all the times he waited in line at the school office to get his FREE lunch card and how embarassed he was. He tells me it was a horrendous experience. I have little empathy for him because as soon as I turned 16, my parents made me pay for my own lunch ( amazing but true and we will not go down that long street of idiotic ideas). I worked part time at Wal Mart and payed for most of my own things. IF and a big IF these kids are so embarrassed and old enough to get a job…maybe they should. I am not advocating kids having to pay for their own meals but that could be an option. All children should have a nutritious meal at school. The problem comes with the irresponsiblity of SOME parents. We have a friend who works in our church and she says folsk drive up all the time in BIG FANCY cars and say they have no money for food….could they get some help. Perhaps they are pulling off their car payment and letting their kids starve…something is wrong here. I wish America would understand that NOTHING comes for free. SOMEONE

By Denise

March 4, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Whenever I feel a little down, I like to come out and read blogs like this. It’s a nice reminder to me that I am so very fortunate. I am not angry and i don’t harbor feelings of resentment towards others. You guys teach me love…love unconditional and I want to thank you for that. Any time I feel like giving up on someone…I read this type of crap and I remind myself that it’s good to love and be loved.

By motherjanegoose

March 4, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

OOOPS…I hit post accidentally…SOMEONE has to pay…if you are not paying then someone else is. This boggles my mind when we think about equality in health care…who will be paying ( for those who cannot)….are you looking in the mirror? I HATE it that life is not fair but the sooner we teach this to everyone…the quicker some will get off their duffs and get to work.
Yes, children need to eat but we need to somehow transform them into contributing memebers of our society…any ideas? My husband did bring up a good point…do we make those who use food stamps walk in a separate line at the grocery store? NO. He asked me how I would like it if I had to walk in a COUPONS ONLY line…( I use them) and I laughed and told him that would not be an issue.
Maybe parents should have to do community service to pay back for free lunch? the bottom line…education IS the key to a better lifestyle and until we can get this across to all children…we will be wallowing in the same mud ( or pudding) puddle)forever.

By FCM

March 4, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

JJ—some people just have to walk the walk before they get it…..You and I have similar stories (from what we have shared here)….I don’t recall saying sorry not my fault I married that Jerk (I am working on my cussing)……I did it I accept it…thankfully a few others who had walked this path did help me (from their hearts not their taxes)…..I know you get it….Hopefully the Rusty’s of the world will never experience the stuff the Diedre NC and we (and others) have…..However, I maintain that at the HS level the kids should be given the choice.

Heck at my childs school even when the field trip was to a place to eat…they were required to prepare a school lunch for the kid. CRAZY

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Polyanna, I mean Denise, get a job,look at your paystub,then tell us how warm and fuzzy you feel then.

By Tamika

March 4, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

I think the lot of you should be damn thankful that you know nothing about real hardship.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Don,guess you fell into that .01% 3 times. riiight. vasectomy is 100% effective. Bet “they” would even pay for it.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Tamika, tell us about “real hardship” that wasn’t of your own doing.

By motherjanegoose

March 4, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

OOOPS…I forgot to say that even though my husband grew up in that environment, he has a successful career in a competitive business arena and is adamant about making sure our children are cared for properly. They both work part time and know the value of a $$$. I am now going to make our dinner with the money I earned myself today… Bratwurst, Potato Salad, Baked Beans and Fruit Salad….yum!

By JJ

March 4, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

OMG the end must be near, I actually agree with Tamika.

FCM Yes, we have alot in common. However, we chose to lift ourselves up and be the best parent we can be and raise our kids without their deadbeat fathers help in any way.

I thank god every day for my family, for without them I don’t think I would have been as successful in raising my daughter alone. I have a wonderful mother, and a wonderful brother (who is now in our shoes, recently divorced), not to mention numerous FRIENDS who helpped when I was down.

I can’t help but think of The Pursuit of Happyness…..how hard he worked to get to where he is now, with very little help. He struggled, lived in bus stations, etc. but rose above it all and worked his butt off to get to where he is now!!! And I don’t think he EVER took a handout, except for maybe the shelters.

Chris Garner is a real MAN in my eyes….

By Will

March 4, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

There is nothing wrong with stigma. But the point really is we have almost no children starving in this country. Our “poor” are obese.

By Rusty

March 4, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Don, sir I appreciate your service but your comments are disturbing. Your attitude is exactly whats wrong with our society today. You sir are supposed to be an example and when you say “I agree 100% with personal responsiblility, and if it was decided that my kids would no longer get medicaid or reduced lunch, I�d find a way to provide what they need. But in the meantime, when I have the opportunity to get help I need, I�m going to take it.” It is your responsibility to provide now,not when the handouts dry up. The support of your children planned or not is no ones responsibility but yours. Man up!

By luvs2teach

March 4, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

You folks all realize that ALL school lunches are subsidized, right?

As a teacher (or any adult visitor to the school) I pay $2.50 for the SAME lunch that costs $1.75 (no, I don’t get extra - unlss you count the sweet tea).

Unless your child is bringing lunch form home, they’re all eating a piece of the government pie - literally.

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Don’t start quoting things you apparently have no clue about Rusty. The Boy…our youngest child…was a vasectomy baby. And the chance of conceiving afterwards is closer to 10%. Also…I’ve got to say…I’m torn between thinking you an enormous a***** and feeling very sorry for you. . Your whole attitude is atrocious and just as detrimental to civilized society as the ones who take advantage of it. How lucky we are that you are not the majority. I really do pray that no hardship ever comes your way. Because by your own warped definition, whatever company layed you off or whatever car hit you would be by your own doing or inaction. This argument has nothing to do with black, white, Republican or Democrat. Its about having a heart. And clearly…you don’t. A mouth, but no heart.

By Tamika

March 4, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Look Rusty, pump your brakes because I’m not one of your little sandbox buddies who troll the AJC for cheap thrills because I can’t pleasure anyone in real life, okay?

I’m sure your bootstraps are so strong that you can’t ever be affected by a lay off, serious illness, divorce or a death in the family…you know, hardships of your own doing.

Tell us more, Sir. I want to drink from your rusty a* well of knowledge.

By Necie

March 4, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Dear Mr Liberty,

You people are so funny!!! I make a 6 figure income NOT INCLUDING WHAT MY HUSBAND MAKES! And I am DAMN CERTAIN that I pay more taxes than most of you bigots that are on this blog fussing and complaining about public schools and free lunches. I know your kind. Angry because it’s hard for you to get by and so you have to point the finger at someone and something. How about you get up off your behind (and off your short wannabe high horse) and make a change! You don’t like this country - MOVE!!! I served this country and I love what it stands for. People like you give us true Americans a bad name!!!

Jesse’s Girl and many other SANE people here - we see eye to eye and I love it! I don’t mind a little controversy but ONLY when it makes sense. We’re talking about kids. I am sure these idiots are assuming that the “parasites” are minorites and of course they believe that minorities are the reason why we have so many problems… Yadda Yadda Yadda… I am a black woman - HIGHLY educated (4 degrees - thank you) and EXTREMELY productive! I probably put more into this economy than anyone complaining about this free lunch issue. When my children have trips and the school ask for donations so that ALL the children can attend the trip, I NEVER hesitate to pay for several children. I look at it as paying it forward. It takes a village to raise a child.

God Bless!!!

By Jesse's Girl

March 4, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Tamika…stop making sense. You are freaking us out.

By Necie

March 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Linda,

I do agree with your comments about labor in this country. It’s as if businesses just don’t care about the American anymore. I heard today that Citigroup is going to lay off nearly 30,000 employees! And I can guarantee you that they will be 30,000 American jobs lost. Now I consider that a crime! Along with many of the other issues we have in society today. We need to offer better pay and better jobs to our people. We should STOP the outsourcing and keep jobs here at home!!! I am a Software Development Project Manager and you can guarantee everywhere I go, the companies I work for are outsourcing some of the project to cheap labor in other parts of the world.

By catlady

March 4, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

I have no problem with federal lunch IF the parents have to go through complete verification. Very few must prove their income, number of dependants, etc. Nor do they have to prove their legal status.

My kids got free/reduced subsidy while I was in graduate school. We were living on about 12,000 per year (4 people). There were other programs we were eligible for, but I was unwilling to apply for them—too intrusive, and there is something to be said for making sacrifices to go after a goal. I was not, however, willing to forego a relatively balanced lunch for my children on account of my sense of pride. Even my high schooler and middle schooler ate their lunches and were glad for it! There was no extra money for junk food or trash food.

In the last 34 years as an educator I have NEVEr seen free lunch kids treated differently. This takes in well over a dozen schools and 4 different school systems in three states.

And an earlier poster is correct: ALL school-bought lunches are subsidized. So when you are paying for your kid’s school lunch, you are only paying PART of the cost. Full cost would add at least a dollar to the cost each day, I would estimate.

Taxpayers have a right to expect that the people getting free lunch legitimately qualify for it. they also have a right to expect those who do not qualify or do not apply MUST pay for their meal at the going rate—no continuing charges as my school system allows.

By FCM

March 5, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this

Mr. Lib if you want rile against the Public Schools (and there is much to get emotional about there)…..could you at least agree that US Children of US CITIZENS should get first dibs at the schools?

I am personally tired of all the ‘offshoring’ that is being done in this country…They bring the ‘offshore’ folks here (and 90% of the women are pregnant or become pregnant) and give birth (OUR HEALTH CARE) and then get to stay so their kids get to be educated here (much better than the offering of ‘free’ school where they come from)…..I never considered myself a bigot….but watching my friends/coworkers/or God please forbid,myself get laid off and then know its MY TAXES paying for their kid is ticking me off…..and I am very quickly becoming less than tolarant against a group of in EurAsia.

By DB

March 5, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

I know every system has its opportunties for abuse. I can remember my best friend in high school, who ended up getting bused to minority/majority school on the other end of town in Virginia — she was flabbergasted at the number of kids who had “free lunch” tickets, and at 15, her comment was, “How can they need a free lunch when they’re wearing $200 tennis shoes?!?” One kid tried to explain it to her, and almost caused a riot: “Why should we pay for lunch if you stupid whiteys are willing to give it to us for free?” Needless to say, she quickly became cynical about social re-engineering :-)

Having said that, no kid is going to go hungry on my watch. The kids aren’t responsible for their parents’ situation (well, maybe they are, indirectly, but that’s another topic), and I can think of few things worse than sitting there, hungry, and watching everyone else stuff food in their mouth and engage in food fights. We can debate the legalities and social responsibility of educating immigrants, etc. in another topic. Meanwhile, I don’t begrudge any child a couple of slices of greasy pizza, or of half-baked meatloaf, a spoonfull of canned green beans and a scoop of powdered mashed potatoes.

By opinionated

March 5, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

OK…here’s my view: When hubby was downsized and we faced an immediate loss of income, my buddy who worked in the cafeteria said, “sign up the kids for free lunch!” It saved a boatload, w/ 3 kids in school at the time. As soon as hubby had a job again, I called and ended the “free lunch.” Same thing happened 2 years later…signed the kids back up. I felt so guilty having my kids on the dole. However, I’ve paid my taxes for years and years, and felt it was time to take advantage of programs in place. However, I know people who have no traceable income (but live in $400K houses) who get this too!!! Very frustrating!!

I have since gone back to work and am teaching. I can look up who is on free/reduced lunch…but I don’t do that…who cares? Our cafeteria is set up so that the kids punch in their ID #. No one other than the lunch ladies know who gets free/reduced. There is no stigma; I do not see anyone skipping meals at my school.

By WTF

March 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Stigma about free lunch???? WHo gives a rats azz!!! The reason most kids don’t eat it is because it is NASTY!!!! They put all of the “good” food that the kids will eat and like on the “cafe” line, where you must pay. My child has always gotten free lunch, even when she took her lunch to school (up until about 7th or 8th grade)! I will fudge my form every year so that if she wants to eat it, she can without paying!!! Dang right!!! And I feel that’s the least our greedy government can do as we spend 12 billion a MONTH, yes, a MONTH, on this stupid war that should have never happened!!! Bush is a greedy ba$tard, and I plan to get all I can, and can all I get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mark

March 5, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Simply give the kids a free bananna at lunch, and be done with it.

By One

March 5, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

As long as our government continues to waste our money on “foreign aid” such as this stupid war (WMD’s, yeah right!!!), my child will get free lunch, healthcare, and anything else I can get for her!!!!! Please believe it!!!!!!!!!

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Tamika,Jessiegirl,It’s just funny to me that when abuse (and that’s what I’m talkin about)is called out the abusers resort to namecalling.Let me just say simply that if you gather nuts in the spring,you’re sure to eat in the winter. Save for a rainy day,etc,etc.Understand? Responsible people plan. Jessegirl I have the feeling your not just Jessies girl.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

One, You’re a leach. But I’m guessin you already knew that.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

WTF, I get it. Bush stole the election so ima steal from Bush.When Bush is gone I’m sure you’re gonna un-enroll from all the handouts that your milkin.I’m sure.All together now “it’s all Bush fault, it’s all Bush fault”.

By Jesse's Girl

March 5, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Rusty…you’re a simpleton.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

JG,please lady look around!Good,honest,productive people are fed up with the deadbeats of society getting a free ride. Why is that so hard for you and Tamika and Don to understand? People using children as meal tickets so they can afford suv’s cell phones and whatever else the taxpayers won’t pay for. Yes ma’am you are lucky I’m not in the majority,otherwise people like you,Don,Tamika and every other Woman on this blog might just have to take some personal responsibility GOD FORBID!

By Jesse's Girl

March 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Every other woman? My assessment of you was right on apparently. Look…its ok to be a simpleton Rusty, really it is. Everyone has a role to play in this life and you are playing your role marvelously. Kudos to you. Let me explain in terms even you can understand. I view this situation as I do tithing. Lets forget for a moment that tithing is a Biblical directive that we are expected to follow. Regardless of one’s take on tithing…if you attend a church with any regularity, you should tithe. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. We cannot control what a particular church does with the money…after it leaves our hands, its effectively in God’s. Its the same for free lunches. You cannot punish the children of questionable parents. We “tithe” for the free-reduced lunches because it is the right thing to do. Beacsue there are deserving kids who are in need of it. You have to look beyond your own agendas for a second Rusty and consider the kids who are in need. This debate was not intended to be about the relevancy of free-reduced lunches….thats what you turned it into. It was supposed to be about not spotlighting the kids who get it. The vast majority of kids who get it, need it. It isn’t their fault that the few who take advantage sour the whole thing.

Now you Rusty….who have planned for every possible contingency in life and are ready to execute them and will never need help of any kind because you’re RUSTY….have an incredibly awesome day.

By Necie

March 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Rusty,

Why are you so angry at women? Now, I agree that people who DON’T deserve to be on the program (because they don’t qualify) should not be on the program. I hate the fact that people take advantage of the programs that our government puts in place for those in need. BUT I would NEVER want them to stop the programs just because the minority of them abuse the system. That just isn’t right for the children who need these programs. All children deserve at a minimum a decent meal at school!

My children’s school serves Tofu (in different forms like hot dogs and burgers) instead of meat. The kids hate it but they eat it so… I couldn’t imagine (the food that they serve at schools) being worth more than a dollar per plate!!! It may be subsidized (based on what adults have to pay) BUT there’s still a profit being made from it. Seriously, the little bit they get isn’t worth squat! Not even a full serving of veggies! Well, this is just my experience and my opinion. Maybe it’s different at other schools.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

JG I read your posts from beginning to end.Obviously by your ignorant interpretations of mine,you are not extending me the same courtesy. Btw, tithing is voluntary. Do/can you understand the difference?

By FCM

March 5, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

“every other Woman on this blog ” WHAT????!!!!?????

Several women on this blog have said how they take personal responsiblity….I did not have my children to justify them to you nor to take your money Rusty…..It must be nice to live in a glass house, hopefully you built it on solid rock……Fortunately I was taught to build even my little cardboard box on The Rock.

Yes, the abusers should be stopped (and there are those on this blog who have admitted to do it)….At our school I had to show my pay stubs and my tax return….not sure how those ‘fudging’ it are doing it….I do know pleanty of Doctors/Lawyers/Accounts kids qualify for Government Aid to go to school. I always figured they would get theirs one day—-perhaps that is the answer……..All those ‘rich’ folks that abused the system for school aide, have great jobs, paying higher taxes and forgot where they came from…..

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Necie, oh good grief..I don’t hate women. I don’t hate kids. I don’t hate Santa,puppies,The Easter Bunny etc. What I DO hate is people who can pay their own way but choose not to because of some false sense of entitlemant.

By nurse&mother

March 5, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

@Rusty- I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn’t literally mean “every Woman on this blog”.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Thanks nursemom, I got called on that “every woman” crack and rightfully so. my bad.

By Jesse's Girl

March 5, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Dude…if you went back and read every one of my posts…you have WAY too much time on your hands. Have a super day Rusty.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

JG, never said “went back and read” I said you are not reading my posts which is OBVIOUS by that stupid reply. You just have a super subsidized day!

By nurse&mother

March 5, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

@Rusty-glad to know I misunderstood.

I think JG thought you read all her posts because your 11:21 post states, “JG I read your posts from beginning to end.”

By don

March 5, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Rusty,

Again, let me point out that you are making assumptions about people who recieve the assistance because of the actions of a few. As stated before, I don’t drive an expensive car. My wife and I don’t have a cell phone because it doesn’t fit into the budget. (well, actually, that’s not entirely true, I make her carry a cell that is not activated so she can dial 911 in an emergency) We don’t have cable TV because, again, it’s not in the budget. I do have a house phone and internet service which I use to take college courses, guess I’m greedy like that. After paying rent, buying gas to get back and forth to work, paying for electric/water, and feeding a family of 6 on $400 a month, there’s nothing left over. I can’t afford, at this time, to pay $800 a month for health insurance from my employer nor can I afford the cheaper alternative, $400 a month for health insurance through K-P, BCBS-GA, etc. So yes, I signed my kids up for medicaid so they can see a doctor if/when they need to. I don’t have health insurance, my diabetic wife doesn’t have health insurance. We pay out of pocket for insulin each month, but other than taht, if we get sick, we don’t go to the doctor. Neither of us smoke, nor do we drink because we live on a budget that doesn’t allow it. We don’t go out to eat at all because groceries are cheaper. On weekends we take the kids to the park instead of out to spend money. I will admit to spoiling my kids though, every Friday if they come home with a good weekly report, I give them each fifty cents to get ice cream at school the next week. I’ve heard people like you that complain about the “deadbeats” getting a free ride on your hard work. Well, you need to realize that, as stated before, some people need the help. It’s as simple as that. I have no intention of being on medicaid/reduced lunch for my kids any longer than I have to be. As stated before, I’m working toward that higher tax bracket you’re so proud to be a part of. I’m glad that you, and others, are more prosperous and not dependent on others for help. I hope to someday be in that position myself. And when I get there, I will gladly help those that need help. But again, keep in mind, the generalizations you seem to keep making (everyone recieving assistance is a deadbeat) are flawed. I’ve seen the people you’re talking about. I’ve been in the grocery store and seen people using WIC/Food Stamps while chatting on that brand new cell phone and then taking the groceries out to the Escalade. But, not everyone is doing that. Just because one teacher gets arrested for molesting a student, that doesn’t mean every teacher is doing it. Just because one cop gets busted for being corrupt, that doesn’t mean every cop is corrupt. Do I need to list more examples or are you understanding?

By a yankee named Jaime

March 5, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Hey folks.

Comin at ya from the snowy north this fine afternoon.

We have the same problems up here.

The most important thought my heart wants to share right now is one some have stated already. You never know when you are going to fall on hard times. You never know when you will be the one desperate for what I like to call a “hand up.” (Rather than a “hand out.”) Sure, when times are good for each of us, we can get a little cocky now and then and think we’re being ripped off because we’re paying taxes that benefit the greater good of others. Guess what… That’s the principle our amazing country is founded upon. It’s a democracy. If you don’t like it, I hear France is nice. God speed.

And the second (and last) thought I’d like to share, particularly with all the teachers, subs, school lunch workers, etc. is this: you may see the Escalade or Denali pull up, and the child who gets out may in fact buy an ice cream later that day with cash, but you still do NOT know the story behind it all. Don’t assume you do. My husband and I have not yet had children of our own. But we recently took in a homeless child. Part of the state’s responsibility, as she is a permanent court ward, is to qualify her for free school lunches. She’s not our child. She’s got an ID card that swipes in the computer like all kids at her school, and nobody knows who gets free lunches and who doesn’t. She’s a smart kid with straight A’s whose only crime in life was being born to a crack wh*re and enduring years of abuse. If you think for one minute I don’t give her a few bucks for a soda or an ice cream, you are nuts. I want her to feel like a “normal” kid as much as she can. The state gives us money to contribute to her support, but I’m here to tell you, it covers the increase in utilities, groceries, personal toiletries, and non-prescription medicines. Period. Clothes? Shoes? Pack of gum? Birthday gifts? Haircuts? It’s all out of our pocket, and we’re happy to do it, thanking God all the while that we have the blessings we do to enable us to handle it.

So I can just imagine the thoughts that any teacher/worker/etc. in her school might have with the audacity y’all seem to have as far as passing judgment on others, if any knew she had free lunch. They’d think: “that mother drops her child off in a brand new sports car, and the kid buys an ice cream with cash, but uses free lunch? Their priorities must be really screwed up.”

And look how wrong they’d be. Our priorities? We’ve put off many things that we’d otherwise have with our “double income no kids” status (including a honeymoon, any vacation in the past several years, home improvements, nicer cars, etc.) in order to help someone less fortunate and give a little to society.

How many times have you possibly been wrong about the ones you’ve watched at school and judged? At least a few, I’m sure. Until you walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, don’t assume you know his story. And definitely don’t assume you have a right to speak on it in any case.

A few in society may abuse the system, sure. But as statistics have proven wrong every other situation similar where people have thought that same basic thinking… i.e. abortions, welfare, etc…. I bet proper stats would show the percentage of abusers of free or reduced school lunches is extremely small. Not nearly enough money to warrant all this commotion.

The focus was supposed to be whether there is a stigma that children have who are needing lunch support at school. Not wether any of you agree that such support exists. And certainly not about what any of you think of people who do qualify for and use the support available. You may get your turn in the barrel someday, and come to eat your words.

And no, for anyone wondering, I’ve never needed, or received, any form of welfare or subsidization. I’ve paid my own way my whole life. It provides a sense of pride that is unmatched. But I believe that a good heart and decent upbringing has (thankfully) kept me grounded and balanced so the pride doesn’t ever overshadow or inhibit the willingness to help the next guy out, and refrain from passing judgment.

And to answer the author’s original questions, which not many posters have bothered to do, no, peers up here at our schools have no way to know who gets free or reduced lunches. There are no stigmas. After Columbine, the protocol in our schools changed, and one of the changes was that each and every student is required to wear a photograph ID hanging around his/her neck at all times while on school property. The lanyards and the background of the ID tell the class the student belongs to (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, or Senior.) Those ID cards were upgraded to include a bar code that can be scanned, and wether parents have prepaid the lunches, or the lunches are subsidized, is completely unknown, even to the cafeteria cashiers. However, when I was younger and attended the same high school, the folks that did get free lunch required they use a special colored ticket (while the rest of us used cash money) and they were singled out often.

I am personally a big fan of schools providing breakfast to all children. My foster daughter starts school at 7 a.m. It’s very difficult to get her to eat a decent breakfast at 6:30 a.m. She’s hardly awake at that time. And I don’t blame her. I eat breakfast religiously, but I’m never hungry until at least 8:30 if not later.

Don, thanks for your service to our fine country, and good luck with your education. I hope you finish school soon and are able to more comfortably provide for your family.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Don, please,please not with the “not everyone is like that” crap. I NEVER said everyone who needs assistance is a deadbeat. Of course I expect to be villified for pointing out the obvious. I think if you serve your country be it military, police,firefighter that you should have a sweet benefit package. That’s only right and I have no problem with that. However knowingly having 4 children (1 intended 3 accidentally if I remember)is again taking advantage of the system. Don are you keeping count so that when you get to that upper tax bracket that you think I’m in (don’t know where that came from but I’ve lost count of the words that have been put in my mouth)you gonna try and pay that back?

By Leah

March 5, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Most school lunches are disgusting; why should anyone have to pay????

By don

March 5, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Rusty,

You’re right, you’ve figured me out. My wife and I woke up one morning and decided it’d be tons of fun to pop out as many kids as we could because we wanted to milk the system for medicaid and free lunches for those kids. Makes perfect sense. That argument falls right up there with the “Why didn’t Clinton kill Bin-Laden when he had the chance?” “Why didn’t Bush stop the terrorist before 9/11?” Unfortunately, us normal folks don’t have the crystal ball that you and others have to know what unexpected twists life might throw at us so we can plan accordingly. Let me ask you this though, on a side note. Since you are so in favor of limiting the unnecessary breeding, do you support sex education in schools, providing condoms/birth control to teenagers, or allowing abortions for people that can’t/won’t take care of their unplanned pregnancies?

By Self

March 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

I’m for no one abusing the system and a system of checks and balances be in place but dang…with your attitudes Rusty, Mark and your ilk, maybe you guys were a wasted wad shot onto society. Too bad your Mom’s didn’t abort you. Bet you all are these god fearing, compassionate conservatives we’ve had rammed down our throats for years.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Don, I think I’ve made my point even with your words in my mouth. You know during all this no one has asked me how many kids I have? Thad be None!Why? Can’t afford em’.Who’s fault is that? Mine. No who’s responsibility it would be to feed clothe, shelter and medicate them if I did?….Drumroll please…Mine.”I can’t see the future so the gubment gotta bail me out.” Again Don, self control is what seperates us from animals.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Self,(clever)If mom had aborted me and folks like me then they’d be no one to feed your kids and subsidize your rent. Please before you post, spare me the “six figure income, $300k house”, blah blah.

By don

March 5, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Rusty,

To posit another question, since you are, as stated above, in favor of higher pay for military/police/firefighters:

Would you support tax increases to pay for those higher pay and benefits?

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Don,I would certainly support raising pay for all servicemen, police and firefighters. Raise taxes? No need,just cut wasteful social programs ie foodstamps,welfare, sec 8 housing subsidies etc. Pass the savings on to the people who deserve the money. Tax increase so not necessary.

By Self

March 5, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Again, Rusty Wad, I am for no one abusing the system, a better form of checks and balances et. al. And yes Rusty, you wasted shot in the dark, I see you are one of those compassionate sorts. No to your assumption, no children. And no, no six figure income nor an expensive home. Just an old ex-Army, disabled veteran, working and earning a decent wage with healthcare benefits, pay my bills, taxes, live within my means (OMG) responsible for my own actions (gasp). In this day and age of massive cuts and jobs being outsourced to pad corporate America’s bottom line, I consider myself rather fortunate to be where I am. Damn straight I worked and earned to be where I’m at now. However, a lot of folks are not and I’m not going to begrudge someone who truly needs help. If I recall, somewhere in that bible that most spew/quote from one side of their mouth while simultaneously spewing “kill-em-all” out the other side, it does briefly mention, “the poor, you have with you always.”

By don

March 5, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Well, I’m slightly confused then Rusty, where would that have put me when I was serving in the military (and later in law enforcement) and receiving WIC, medicaid, etc? Doesn’t seem like much of a net gain for those people. I guess maybe I should sit around and listen to Rush, Neal, and Sean so I can become better educated on all the simple solutions there are for the problems in the world. Maybe then I could blindly regurgitate their p.o.v.’s and never have to think for myself or consider that there may be extenuating circumstances that don’t fit neatly in my carefully crafted view of the world.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Don, if you were in law enforcement then you know where the real money is. extra jobs. Bout $20-30 an hr nowadays. I don’t feel sorry for you. You made bad decisions and should reap what you sow. It’s not my responsibility to protect you from yourself. How are you paying for college Don? Lemme guess. Last time I checked it was a volunteer Army. You can’t just wrap yourself up in the flag and cry poor me. Self(clever), you, young lady are a drama queen.

By Kerri

March 5, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

School lunches are gross..who’d WANT to eat that slop?

By What a joke

March 5, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

ABOLISH FREE SCHOOL LUNCHES!!! I did NOT choose for someone else’s welfare/crack brats to be born, let alone spend MY money feeding them so that they grow up to committ violent crimes against my family & me. Being “poor” (i.e. being lazy & having an entitlement complex) does not render anyone deserving of freebies..at OUR expense, no less. Poor people are filthy, smelly & diseased & if they can’t afford to take care of their own kids, they should not have them. Ever notice too, that this phenomena is most prevalent among certain ethnic groups? I.E. if you see some junior thug named LeShondell & his female counterpart, 13-year old Kayiashaquandaneisha who already has several brats by different “baby daddies”, you just know they’re the ones milking the system but everyone is so busy being politically correct you can’t/won’t see the problem for what it is. Instead of being concerned with these young thugs & w—-res feeling “stigmatized” for being in the free lunch program, what about kids who are bullied & tormented daily for being physically different?? Huh???

By don

March 5, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

wow, “What” is a genius.

By felisia

March 5, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

When I was in high school, my dad, an air traffice controller lost his job. thru no fault of his own, the president fired them all after they went on strike and refused to go back to work. my dad went from making six figures to nothing. we lived in ny and lived well. that all suddenly changed. my dad found another job, but making far less then he was making before. while he was out of work I was entitlted to free lunch. the stigma attached to getting free lunch was far too harsh than being hungry all day. being a teenager is hard enough w/out that attached. we bounced back but it took 5 years. so, it wasn’t about my dad being lazy. he had been with the FAA for 21 years. it was just circumstances.

By don

March 5, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Rusty is right. Those police officers should get off their lazy a*******e$ and start working more side jobs. Then they won’t need raises at all. Heck, we could even cut what we already pay them. What about the ones that work morning watch (11p-7a) when most of those side jobs are available you ask? Well too bad, they should have made a better decision about which shift they were assigned to. And while we’re at it, what about firefighters. Those jerks typically work 24 on/48 off. That’s only 10 days of actual work a month. They should have real jobs then. And the military? If they really want extra money, they know how to earn it. Airborne soldiers get an extra $150 a month, and let’s not forget that when they deploy overseas they get paid an extra $300 for family seperation and hazardous duty pay. Those b******* are so overpaid.

And Rusty, knowing the sacrifices I, and more importantly my family, made for this country, I’ll wrap myself in that flag anytime I f’ing choose to and challenge you and any other broke d!ck civilian to claim I haven’t earned that right. You’re absolutely right that my choices led to my circumstance. I chose after 6 yrs to walk away from the military. After spending more than half that time sitting in a God-forsaken hellhole sandbox I’d had enough of that rodeo. I chose to go into law enforcement and accepted the sub-par pay that goes with it. I chose to use my GI Bill and the Pell Grant to go back to college. I chose to leave law enforcement for better pay in the private sector. All my choices, and now a portion of your (and others) hard earned tax money buys my kids lunch at school everyday. The way I see it you have a few options to avoid that. You could move to another country that doesn’t have social programs in place, but I’m sure you consider yourself far too patriotic to ever leave. You could ask your employer about working off the books, just pay you in cash each week so you can avoid the income tax. Not sure how that will fly with the HR department, but it’s worth a shot. You can go out and vote for the “fiscal conservatives” in the hopes they’ll cut those programs completely, but then I’ll just vote for a candidate to support those programs, so we’ll cancel each other out. What to do, what to do?

By Chris Van Vliet

March 6, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

I just wanted to inform the author that there are numerous systems in place that will prevent over identification. Our school food service uses a student id # entered in a key pad. there is no way a student will no another’s business UNLESS that student tells his/her friend.

The situations you describe in your article sound very outdated. Florida DOE addressed this problem years ago!!!

I invite you to our national conf in July 2008 in Phila

sna.org

I am Food Service Director for Marion County Public Schools- Ocala Florida.

There is no STIGMA with our students - meal participation is up 8.5%.

If you want to write another article on the true benefits of the School Nutrition Program please contact me. I can help you!!!!

By Michelle Perkins

March 6, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

I see a lot of comments regarding the supposed fact that the school lunch program should be lumped together with all other “welfare” type programs.

First, the school nutrition program is just that, a program to provide nourishment for school children (all school children) in those districts that participate in the National School Lunch Program.

Second, all School Nutrition Programs are self funded, meaning that we generate our own funds, just like any ther “business” even though we are in the Education Field.

Third, almost every comment made regarding the stigma attached to school lunch is flawed, mostly due to the negative perception of adults that remember what our school lunch was like in the past. I too was one of those high school students that would rather have died than walk into the lunch room at my school, but now I am fortunate to have put that aside and have spent the bulk of my adult life making school meals better for the students that I serve.

I am the director in a small, rural district in Central Florida. We don’t have much industry, and the folks here don’t have a lot of discretionary money to spend. Our percentage of Free and Reduced Price kids is not quite 56% of enrollment. In the past three years, we have increased the number of student free, reduced and paid meals by over 700 meals per day, those meals being of very high nutritional quality and food standard.

The school nutrition program is an integral part of each child’s educational day. In this program, students learn not only social skills and good manners, but also nutrition skills (how to make wise food choices) and financial management (I can buy a bag of baked chips and a bottle of water for $2.50 or buy a whole meal for $1.75). Students don’t know who is free or reduced or pays full price here either, since they are on a swipe card system. No one here can point fingers at the “FREE” kids.

Until our legislators decide to stop trying to legislate us to death and restrict funding to our program and begin to realize that the school meals program is another facet of the educational process, we will always be stigmatized.

Yes, there is NO Free Lunch. Somebody pays for it, just as somebody pays for the other things we all take for granted like farm subsidies, etc.

I don’t see anyone complaining about the fact that farmers get paid to NOT grow certain foods, or get payment assistance from the government when they have an excellent growing year. All of those substidies support our program as well as many others.

I am right with you Mr. Van Vliet…these people dont’ understand what we are all about.

If you all know how to find a website, try looking up www.schoolnutrition.org or http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/

That will tell you all you need to know about us School Food Service professionals!!!

By the way, I would love to know where you can buy a complete meal, with beverage, for less than $3.00 anywhere else. I know McDonalds and Wendy’s don’t have one.

By Rusty

March 6, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Man Don, It just sounds like you expect someone else to pay for your entire existance as well as that of your entire un-planned family. Pretty pathetic. “try and take away my free s#it and I’ll cancel out yo mofo vote.” freakin pathetic.

By Self

March 7, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Yo, Rusty Wad, I’m no young lady. And yes, you and your ilk are freakin pathetic. To think that you and your kind take advantage of that wonderful little government subsidized program known as the military to cover and protect your P… A*******es so that you have the freedom to have the pompous nerve to whine about others.

By Rusty

March 7, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Sgt.Self(clever) That Gov’t subsidation you speak of wouldn’t happen to be my tax dollars would they? Btw Sarge,what year were you drafted? That’s what I thought,now go peel a potatoe.

By Jesse's Girl

March 7, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Are you still posting on this? Let it go man…let it go! Its Friday! Happy hour is almost upon us…have a drink Rusty. PLEASE.

By Rusty

March 7, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

JG, I would dear but now I’m fightin’ off name-calling jarheads that think the world owes them everything because they VOLUNTEERED for armed service. So much for bootstraps and all now I guess. Have a great weekend though JG and thanks for the advice,think I will have me a lil snort.

By Hand up not hand out!

March 26, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Get rid of welfare and free lunches!there is no need for my 30+ % of my income to go to taxes so I ca pay for some lazy parent to not get off their tuckus and find a way to send their kid to school with lunch or money for lunch. I am under 30 and grew up extremely poor. Never once did my family take a hand out from the government, church, friend, or family member. We grew what we could not afford to buy and used out dated clothes of our older siblings to make new clothes for our selves. If you are privledged enough to live in America you are not above planting a garden, getting some dirt under the nails and working for what you have. I have now become successful and have the money to go to a grocery store and buy my food but what I grow in my garden is so much tastier! I get to spend that money I save to buy you kid lunch. Your Welcome!

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