By FCM

January 10, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

The current way that GA school rules read the Mother would be allowed 6 weeks…because she would not return to school without a note from her doctor (presumably at the 6 weeks PostPardum checkup)….so that would be excused absence.

As far as who should take care of the child while Mom is at school….that is NOT the schools role nor their concern, that is the ‘new’ grandparents worry—especially if Mom is not an emancipated minor.

However, the more pressing question these counselors should be addressing is how to help the girls NOT get pregnant in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(yeah I am sure to get flamed on this one).

By Katie

January 10, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

I agree with FCM, it’s not the job of the school to worry about pregnant teens and maternity leave. As a tax payer, I want my dollars going to teaching kids English, Math, Science and History, not worrying about allowing girls to extend their education by 6 weeks or counceling teen mothers. What’s next, day care in high schools?

By FCM

January 10, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

@Jeff—-you were in the system…the more I think about it, yes it would be an excused absence but much more likely due to Federal Money rules/regs the school would have the new mother disenroll from school…..is that what you think too?

I know they do that (disenroll) at my children’s schools when a family takes a ‘vacation’ more than 2 weeks long.

Theresa, I disagree with your idea that time off won’t encourage a girl to get pregnant. Most teens don’t think long term…some dumb girl is going to think having a baby is great idea, or think its a good way to get time off…my 13 yo cousin thought so! That baby was miscarried but at 17 she had first and at 20 she has 2. My ex’s sisters were both very young mothers. It is SCARY!

By Julie

January 10, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Just one more reason children shouldn’t be having children. Maybe if we as a society made it less socially acceptable they would think a little longer and harder about the consequences. I don’t know.

By astro

January 10, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

If we followed the same logic that we use to teach our kids about sex, then we would approach the problem of kids being hit by cars by sending them to classes on how to dodge the cars better. After a couple of years of these classes, we’d wonder why kids were still getting hit by cars.

Now, if we taught them not to play in the street..

By Julie

January 10, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Oh, and I meant to say, no they should not be required to return straight to school. That is just ridiculous.

By madisons mom

January 10, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Personally, I agree with the FCM and Katie. I don’t get a paid maternity leave - I have to save and get ready for it before-hand. Why should taxpayers have to foot the bill for extended school for these people being irresponsible and having children while they are still in school? If my daughter gets mononucleosis, I have to go to the school daily and pick up her work and turn in the work from the previous day’s lessons - she doesn’t get six weeks off in order to take a “break”.

By sarah

January 10, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

We are already going to pay for the child for the rest of its life. We shouldn’t allow the mothers maternity leave. If we would quit catering to these children that screw up then maybe we wouldn’t have so many out getting knocked up. It’s too easy to have kid, reap the rewards, and not even take care of the child.

By zeke

January 10, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

What idiots! They should be expelled for being a bad influence, negative influence, disruptive influence on the other students!!!

By FCM

January 10, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

@ Katie “Several districts have special schools with child-care services for new moms” <——this is directly from the article that Theresa linked. SO no that is not what is next..it is already here.

By Baby Daddy

January 10, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

At first I was outraged as were some of you who responded before me. Then I thought it is a good idea but only if it includes a statute for PATERNITY leave for the baby-daddies also. This way the new baby, mom, and dad could bond together and maybe the dad will be more likely to stick around and actually be a DAD instead of just a sperm donor.

By Plainly Spoken

January 10, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Another sign of the decline and impending death of Western civilization … .

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

FCM:

What Jeff were you referring to in your second post? I looked and saw no one posting under the ‘Jeff’ name thus far on this topic… just curious!!

Now, for my response to the topic:

A) We need to get government out of the education business in the first place. Government has ZERO Constitutional business in this arena.

B) The more you reward a behavior, the more it will happen. By giving recent teenage moms an excused abscense, we are ENCOURAGING teenage pregnancy. As has been said, teens aren’t exactly known for thinking long term. They’re going to see it as an excuse to have some fun and get 6 weeks out of school - allowing them to have more fun. At that point, nothing you can tell them about how awful childbirth and the immediate few weeks after is is going to matter. It will go in one ear and out the other.

Similarly, we see the same thing happening with illegal immigration. Our laws are set up so that they in effect ENCOURAGE the problem, and therefore the problem continues to grow. Ending of birthright citizenship would go a LONG way to stopping this problem.

C) As I just alluded to, instead of making life EASIER for problem people, the HARDER you make life, the less desireable the problem behavior is and the LESS likely it is to happen. This goes for everything from teen pregnancy to illegal immigration.

For example: Know why alternative schools are such a good deterrent to many behavior issues in school? Quite a few factors really, but among them: the social stigma (a MAJOR deterrent to teens!), the fact that they will have to be in school anyway, AND the fact that alternative schools are known for being FAR more restrictive and strict on discipline issues than mainstream schools. In other words, life is made FAR harder than at the mainstream school, so why bother doing something that would get you sent to the alternative school?

By sue

January 10, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

A school quarter is 9 weeks. Any student that is gone 6 out of 9 weeks should not get credit for being there.

I don’t think that anyone should be forced to go back to school/work the day after they are discharged from the maternity ward, but there are other options. The article stated, “that normally Colorado public schools use specialized programs or individual education plans to deal with pregnancy.” It seems to me that means they make allowances. Perhaps home study, special courses, or even withdrawing from class and graduating late or making it up during summer school.

In this country, we have the right to free education, but no where does it state that the right extends to marching and graduating with the same peers we started school with.

Why do parents try to litigate away any consequence that a child may have for their choices?

By Katie

January 10, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

FCM, are you serious? I didn’t know that. I hope they are not funded by tax dollars (please don’t tell me otherwise). That is sending the wrong message to young girls. They need to keep their thighs together and stop having babies at the cost of the public. I agree with Julie as well, we should make it more socially unacceptable.

By Leigh

January 10, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

That’s why God made the GED. Stay home and get one while you are nursing.

By Leigh

January 10, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

And by the way, if I was sitting in Algebra next to a girl who was balancing a baby in her Juicy backpack, spouting milk from her chest, and questionalble fluids from other areas - I might just think twice about f. my boyfriend that night. Now that’s education.

By One

January 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

I agree with just about everything that has been said here already!!! Make teen pregnancy unacceptable, make it as hard as possible for them to get that diploma, make their little fast azzes living examples of birth control!!!! Then, and only then, will they think twice about such stupidity!!

By jeed

January 10, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Take the whole nine weeks/semester, or YEAR off and come back the next year - repeating the grade level, of course.

What am I missing?

By One

January 10, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

So in answer to the original question, HELL NO!!!, no maternity leave for high schoolers? How ignorant does that sound when said aloud………hellz, when typed!!!

By FCM

January 10, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

@Jeff….it was to you my dear (provided of course that you are the adoring husband to ‘T’). I had a feeling this topic would strike a cord and you would be on at some point. Forgive me if my presumption overstepped the bounds of ‘blog friendship’.

@Katie, that quote was from the paper.

@Astro, I never said what part of sex ed we should have. Abstinence is still my preferred method for teens….however if they insist on doing the deed they should be covered up and other measures in place….including understanding that it will be THEIR responsiblity for providing remedy for any consequences occurred (pregnancy or STD).

@Baby Daddy—I wondered if Paternity leave would come up. I have various thoughts on that (primarily that Daddy should be in school getting his diploma so he can provide for the baby/he can bond while caring for the child while Mom is in school so she can get a diploma and provide for the baby)…however I do believe (as stated above) that if a teen (regardless of gender) choose to engage in the activities that lead to these situations…they BOTH should understand they will responsible for the solution to the outcomes of their actions.

Additionally the article points out that alternative arrangements are made to help the girls keep up with their studies. Further, while my job is secure through the Family Leave Act…there was nothing indicating that the girls ‘spot’ in school was in jepordy…presumably if she left 10th grade she would be welcomed back into 10th grade. With regard to the childcare—-I have been blasted many times for stating that I would love to see the cost deferred (it is outrageous what is charged for GOOD care) and the STATE step in and govern the rules/reg better—-however my employer is not responsible for the care of my child, I AM. I pay for it, I find it, I secure it, and I proactively keep track of it. That is part of being a good parent…guess what girls, that is what you are now a PARENT not a school girl

By madisons mom

January 10, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

It just drives me nuts that people (of all shapes, sizes, and colors) think that when they get “in trouble” it’s the responsibility of someone else to change the rules to make it easier for them. I would prefer it if we changed the rules for the people that FOLLOW the rules and work hard and try to make something of themselves instead of always catering to the worst of the group. When you lower standards to accommodate the the worst of the bunch, you always end up with mediocre results instead of raising standards and ending up with excellent results.

By 31yroldmother

January 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

You guys must not know much about the law. By law, ALL women get maternity leave the only difference is that your job does not have to pay you for it. Those of you who were fired for not coming to work right after pregnancy could probably sue your job. Believe me, your job would never tell you that they fired you for having a baby and needing to be home during a certain period of time. You should try it sometime.

Also, An insane person is one who contines to do the same thing over and over and expects different results. Guess what, High School students have never gotten maternity leave and they are STILL GETTING PREGNANT! Yet for some reason you ignorant folk believe that not getting maternity leave will prevent this. Has it prevented it thus far?

It is the not the job of the school teachers to teach your children about pregnancy and sex. Guess what that’s your job yet for some Odd reason parents want to keep pushing sex education. Do you not know how to teach your own children about sex and pregnancy?

Last but not least DON’T YOU GUYS WATCH MAURY believe me after they have the child and have to stay at home and listen to it scream and holler all day, stay up all night, and changing diapers. (Which the parents are supposed to enforce by the way). They won’t get pregnant again or in the first place!

P.S. - Help me on this? Since when do tax dollars go towards paying for students to be out of school? Tax dollars go toward the salaries and upkeep of the school not the students. How are you wasting your tax dollars for someone to take time off of school? Maternity leave doesn’t mean you get paid to be off.

By zoe

January 10, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

I have a student currently on maternity leave, I have been requested to provide SIX WEEKS of alternative assignments for this student. I already teach three different classes during the day and my class activities are very involved and detailed. I can’t just send home whatever I do in class to the student. This is placing an extra burden on me because someone couldn’t keep her pants on.
If a student wants to be home for six weeks with baby, she should apply for the hospitalized/homebound service. That is what it is there for.

By zynhova

January 10, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

My mother-in-law gave birth to my husband when she was 15. She was expelled from school and not allowed to return because of the “influence” she might have on other girls. She was shunned from society and so way her baby.

So, she had a baby and had no way to support herself and that baby. Of course, she went on welfare. She got a GED and then got a job. But she could only get jobs that paid her about 10K a year so she was still on welfare.

When my husband graduated from high school they both qualified for pell grants and went to college.

I met and married my husband in our last 2 years of college.

In December of 1998 all 3 of us graduated from college. My mother-in-law with a BS in Accounting. She went to work for the state. My husband and I went to graduate school.

Now, my mother-in-law makes 65K a year. She’s 48. My husband is 33 and is a professor. We have a 6 year old son who benefits from having a young, financially comfortable grandma.

They made it, the two of them. With some help from the welfare system and a lot of grit and determination, despite obstacles from a society that decided my mother-in-law was a trashy slut and could be mistreated at will and that my husband was a b******* who was destined to become a criminal.

Perhaps it’s their experiences that make them sympathetic to the plight of the poor, disadvantaged, and marginalized - no matter how that person got where they are.

Knowing them and becoming family with them is one of the best things I have ever done to open my sheltered and short-sighted eyes to life.

We all agree that no matter how bad a choice someone has made they should be given a chance to turn things around. Society is obliged, for its own health and welfare, to help its weakest members to become stronger.

So, for high school girls who become pregnant and choose not to have an abortion we should help them complete their education so they have the best chance to raise themselves and their child to be a strong member of our society. As a mom I remember how physically hard it was to get around in the early days after giving birth. Painful, leaky, bloody, exhausting, scared.

Give them 4-6 weeks to adjust. Let them enter into a cohort of learning that ignores traditional semesters and allows them to catch up within a year.

This discussion is about what to do when the horse has left the barn, not about keeping the horse in. That’s for another blog. They’re equally important discussions.

By Mat

January 10, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

This is the most ridiculous request ever. They should be ashamed to even think about doing this. It’s not suppose to be easy being a teen mom… that is why you don’t have a baby. Forget maternity leave, they should not be in school when they start to show. As a high school teacher, I see students in the halls getting their stomachs rubbed by their peers. They show off their sonograms; they give out baby shower invitations. Each time I see this I want to vomit. Pathetic.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

FCM:

Oh, ok! Just checking, you had me confused! :P

As far as my experiences in the system:

From a student who wound up IN an alternative school, what I said above about the reasons they are (mostly) effective is accurate.

From a teacher’s standpoint: What I said about making life harder for them is what I believe. The only students I had that had kids had them before they were in my class - never had one out for pregnancy reasons. (Change that, one senior was 3 or 4 months along - with her second - when she graduated. But I never had a student dealing with third trimester/ just delivered issues.)

Regarding state involvement in child care: My own limited government (some would say EXTREMELY limited government) proclivities are beginning to be fairly well known here and on the other AJC blogs. I’m going to say that the state needs to butt out - from EVERY perspective of it. As you said, part of being a good parent is finding, securing, and keeping track of quality care for your children.

Regarding Paternity leave: Don’t just give him paternity leave, EXPEL HIM. Force him to get a job and support that kid he helped to create. It’s called MANNING UP. He thinks he’s ready to be a man - by creating the child, he is automatically stating that he is a ‘man’. So make him BE a man and do the right thing by his kid.

Re: Sex ed: The single BEST thing we can do from a Sex Ed perspective is PUBLICLY crack down on teenage parents. Make their lives a living HADES - and put it on National TV in primetime. Message being: So you wanna have sex? Well, if you make a baby, you’ll face THIS. Do you REALLY want to do that?

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

It’s funny how everyone on here has never chased after the opposite sex as a high schooler, never had sex before marriage, and were able to pray away every temptation. You guys are truly God’s chosen people. Gimme a freaking break!

Abstinence only education is a complete and utter failure. Kids will have sex…always have, always will. Instead of going for pie-in-the-sky initiatives like abstinence only, maybe we should teach our kids about birth control and condom use in case they may find themselves in the throes of passion. It happens. Maybe we should also hammer home the ocnsequences of sex, both emotional and physical, and promote accountability and respect. I guess that makes too much sense. Anyways, we can always revert to stoning our daughters to death once they get knocked up.

By John

January 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

When I was in school pregnant girls just “disappeared”.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

@31yoMom—-who said they got fired for maternity leave? How will allowing maternity leave for HS students help lower the rate? (We argue it might increase but we don’t say the current methods are working). I said that the counselors should be encouraging them not to get pregnant…I also said it was the ‘new’ grandparents job to take care of things…so how does that imply its not the parents of the teens job to also encourage them not to get pregnant/be responsible for their choices/look at long term consequences/etc? No I do not watch MAURY I am busy providing for my children…I do not have time to watch that stuff…and if the teens are in school they shouldn’t have time either. Besides most kids think it ‘will never happen to [them]”. I believe Zoe responded to your PS much better than I ever could.

By jamie

January 10, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

At least they are allowed to finish school in this day. I thought I knew it all when I married at 15. By 17 I was a senior and pregnant. I had straight A’s all through school but the system refused to let me continue my education due to my precnancy. Fortunately, I accomplished the GED program and proceeded to college but with no help from Georgia’s public school system. That was Rockdale County in 1980.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

What a bunch of self righteous folks you all are. I had my first child at a young age. Now, I realize that the pregnancy was mine to deal with and I did. Without the help of the taxpayers or my parents thank you very much. Yes, taxpayers do have to foot a lot of bills but the truth is we foot the bills of A LOT more adults than we do teenagers. Adults that refuse to work and keep popping babies out so the checks get bigger. Do I think teenagers need to be having babies?? No I don’t. Was I too young? Yes I was. But I had my child and I worked and I raised that child to the best of my abilities as most of these girls will hopefully do. And yes, I did get my GED, thank you Leigh for making that sound so trivial, I was very proud of myself that day just so you know. What you are all doing is assuming that you know not only the whole story but also the way it will turn out and you do not. If you honestly think that allowing pregnant teens in school or having in school daycare centers is going to make teens want to get pregnant than I would say that in most cases you are wrong! These teens will take one look at those girls being shunned by most of her “friends” and then also take a look at those screaming babies and think twice! If the “maternity leave” in any way costs the taxpayers or hinders the rest of the students then of course, it’s a dumb idea. But if it means this horrible, bad, loser of a teen Mom (not my opinion, what you all seem to think based on the above comments) has her child, bonds and sets up proper care and then finishes getting the education that MOST true welfare recipients never bothered to get then I applaude that girl and I go to bed at night knowing one more child in the world is safe , loved and has a bright future.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

What a bunch of self righteous folks you all are. I had my first child at a young age. Now, I realize that the pregnancy was mine to deal with and I did. Without the help of the taxpayers or my parents thank you very much. Yes, taxpayers do have to foot a lot of bills but the truth is we foot the bills of A LOT more adults than we do teenagers. Adults that refuse to work and keep popping babies out so the checks get bigger. Do I think teenagers need to be having babies?? No I don’t. Was I too young? Yes I was. But I had my child and I worked and I raised that child to the best of my abilities as most of these girls will hopefully do. And yes, I did get my GED, thank you Leigh for making that sound so trivial, I was very proud of myself that day just so you know. What you are all doing is assuming that you know not only the whole story but also the way it will turn out and you do not. If you honestly think that allowing pregnant teens in school or having in school daycare centers is going to make teens want to get pregnant than I would say that in most cases you are wrong! These teens will take one look at those girls being shunned by most of her “friends” and then also take a look at those screaming babies and think twice! If the “maternity leave” in any way costs the taxpayers or hinders the rest of the students then of course, it’s a dumb idea. But if it means this horrible, bad, loser of a teen Mom (not my opinion, what you all seem to think based on the above comments) has her child, bonds and sets up proper care and then finishes getting the education that MOST true welfare recipients never bothered to get then I applaude that girl and I go to bed at night knowing one more child in the world is safe , loved and has a bright future.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

What a bunch of self righteous folks you all are. I had my first child at a young age. Now, I realize that the pregnancy was mine to deal with and I did. Without the help of the taxpayers or my parents thank you very much. Yes, taxpayers do have to foot a lot of bills but the truth is we foot the bills of A LOT more adults than we do teenagers. Adults that refuse to work and keep popping babies out so the checks get bigger. Do I think teenagers need to be having babies?? No I don’t. Was I too young? Yes I was. But I had my child and I worked and I raised that child to the best of my abilities as most of these girls will hopefully do. And yes, I did get my GED, thank you Leigh for making that sound so trivial, I was very proud of myself that day just so you know. What you are all doing is assuming that you know not only the whole story but also the way it will turn out and you do not. If you honestly think that allowing pregnant teens in school or having in school daycare centers is going to make teens want to get pregnant than I would say that in most cases you are wrong! These teens will take one look at those girls being shunned by most of her “friends” and then also take a look at those screaming babies and think twice! If the “maternity leave” in any way costs the taxpayers or hinders the rest of the students then of course, it’s a dumb idea. But if it means this horrible, bad, loser of a teen Mom (not my opinion, what you all seem to think based on the above comments) has her child, bonds and sets up proper care and then finishes getting the education that MOST true welfare recipients never bothered to get then I applaude that girl and I go to bed at night knowing one more child in the world is safe , loved and has a bright future.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

steveo:

This may shock you, but I was GREAT at being a Southern Boy. I was having sexual experiences at TEN. I was a virgin until 16, but other stuff was happening much younger. After 16, about once every couple of years or so I got more ‘experience’. This happened until I met my wife, and we didn’t exactly wait until that night in Tampa to start.

Difference between me and teenage dads is that I was smart about it.

I like the analogy above: You can teach kids different ways to avoid cars, but if they jump in the road, eventually they WILL get hit.

Another example is speeding: Do it all the time, and eventually you’ll get caught. Doesn’t matter how ‘safe’ you are about it. Doesn’t matter how many strategies you know for not getting caught. The only way to absolutely know WITHOUT A DOUBT that there is NO WAY for you to get caught speeding is to not be speeding in the first place.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

What idiots! They should be expelled for being a bad influence, negative influence, disruptive influence on the other students!!!

Would you rather they have an abortion?

Teenage girls who get pregnant still have a right to an education. In the state of Georgia, there is a program called “Hospital/Homebound.” Most new teen moms are enrolled in that so they can keep up with their studies at home while they adjust to motherhood. A teacher (already paid by the county) visits with hospital and homebound students about once a week to deliver, collect, and assist with assignments. There are a variety of reasons students go on H/H, from surgery to cancer to broken bones to pregnancy. Tax dollars are not wasted on a new teen mom.

I am saddened at the high rate of teen pregnancy, but I am even more saddened by the attitude and lack of compassion that is exhibited here today. Put yourself in the place of a teenage mom for just a few moments. How scary that must be! She made a mistake (like every other teenager) that has huge consequences, but that should not keep her from getting an education.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

@jeff—don’t EXPEL him, let him work after school instead of hanging with his friends/playing ball. The family he created needs him EDUCATED…I have no issue with continuing to educate the parents.

@steve-o—OK so I had sex at 19, in college, & before marriage, but I was very aware of the possible outcomes, fully discussed them with my partner and fully prepared to accept (although with 20-20 of hindsight I can say not fully prepared to ‘deal’) with them. Perhaps it is because of this I stopped having sex in my 20s and turned my life and thinking into another direction? Now at my present age, I would consider sex outside of marriage (admitted yesterday I had) but again, I am fully aware of what the consequences might bring and that I would have to deal with them. These kids are NOT looking at it that way, they see it as another mess and they are ‘just kids’….nope when you decided to drop your drawers you decided you were old enough to face the consequences….and yes, I am aware my children may have sex as teens (SCARY!!!!), it is something I pray about everyday…as well as educate them (and they are young) and advise against their doing.

@synhova—while I can agree with that having compassion for these people is the right thing, that does not mean we make it ‘easy’ to the point that they have no responsiblity. I applaude your MIL but would bet she is the first to say that teen pregnancy is not a good idea.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Just wanted to say……not sure why my comment got posted that many time, computer error I suppose. Sorry about that. Carry on with your “witch hunt”

By Todd

January 10, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

As a teacher, I have seen pregnant freshmen and pregnant middle school students (when you have girls who are as young as 11 and guys who are 17 still at middle school here in Georgia—easily happens).

This homebound program is nonsense. People use and abuse it. I had a 9th grade student tell me once that she got pregnant solely to get welfare. We reward these girls for getting pregnant.

Should they be able to stay in school and take maternity leave? NO. They need to learn their lesson. The parents of these 11 and 12 year old girls walking around with a baby in their wombs need some punishment of their own.

These girls didn’t get pregnant by the married guy at the neighborhood party because your little girl was playing with dolls in her bedroom.

Stop rewarding these morons for getting pregnant—they then allow their kids to get pregnant in middle school.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Okay, so you don’t want the girl to get a tax-provided education because she got pregnant and had a baby. I’ll agree to that only if the boy who got her pregnant is not allowed to attend school either.

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Jeff & FCM,

Thanks for your stories…they were insightful and both of you made your points well.

My point is that in addition to teaching kids to wait, we should also have are kids prepared for the moment, because let’s face it, nobody knows exactly when it is. In that regard, it would be foolish not to teach kids about condoms and birth control.

Teens in Western Europe are just as sexually active as American teens, if not more—yet they have much lower teenage pregnancy rates. The reasons for this include the fact that sex isn’t as taboo in Europe as it is here and that they openly discuss and promote condom and birth control use.

By georgia peach

January 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

yes katie, what FCM said is true. They already have high schools with day care. Matter of fact there were 2 high schools that had day care when i was in high school and that was 29 years ago. I don’t agree with it. I also do not agree with giving young ladies maternity leave. I can see it now, gone for 6 weeks and come back pregnant again!!! leave is not the answer. There is NO excuse for getting pregnant. There is free birth control given out everywhere, some schools dispense it, some pass out condoms. If they valued their lives they wouldn’t have unprotected sex!!!!

By Pro-choice

January 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

This is a prime example why abortion needs to remain legal.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

There is NO excuse for getting pregnant.

There is also no excuse for hitting a teacher, but children who do this don’t have to quit school. There is no excuse for bringing a knife to school, but children who do this don’t have to quit school. There is no excuse for selling or taking drugs at school, but children who do this don’t have to quit school. They are sent to alternative school for a while. I would suggest an alternative school for pregnant girls and new moms, but then your tax dollars would fund it, so you wouldn’t like that either.

BTW, condoms are not 100% effective. Sometimes people who have protected sex can still get pregnant…trust me, I know!

By Monkey lover

January 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

PEN, you are absolutely correct, however, this blog is about maternity leave for teens—we’re not talking about useless adults. But I’d love to go off on that subject as well. —-ending thought—— If you have a voice you can work, if you have arms you can work—no excuses!!! 99% of people on welfare should not be, they should be forced to get a job.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

steveo:

Ever worked with a group of teenagers?

I have, in a variety of settings from alternative schools to mainstream schools to church Sunday School classes to even college classes. (I’ve been both a student and a tutor/teacher in each of those environments.)

Teens don’t pay a bit of attention to ANYTHING an adult says about sex ANYTIME it is brought up. Matter of fact, I can practically gaurantee you that a 13 yr old will learn more in 5 minutes talking to his 16yo best friends’s brother (the bro is 16, not the best friend, although that also happens!) than in sitting through 4 yrs of sex ed in high school.

Church is little better. At least there most of them know that if they make too much ruckus, the teacher will probably talk to their parents. And when I was growing up, you learned REAL quick you did NOT want that to happen!

By madisons mom

January 10, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

I don’t think people should have to be kicked out of school if they get pregnant, I just don’t think it is the responsibility of the teacher or the school to change everything just to make it easier for the girl.

If parents were doing a better job of teaching their children instead of putting their heads in the sand and saying, “not my child” this discussion wouldn’t be as necessary.

Again, like I said, I am tired of catering to the lowest man on the pole instead of making the lowest man live up to high expectations.

By Pro-choice

January 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

This is one of the reasons that it is imperative for abortions to remain a legal option.

By Dee

January 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Does anybody remember when a young girls biggest issue in High School was dressing out for gym class. I just find it amazing that the girls that are most likely to get pregnant are the ones that are already in a household where medicaid and welfare are a way of life. and these are the same young ladies that can go to the clinic and get birth-control and everything else for free. so I say HELL NO!!! to maternity leave for high school students, let them get their GED. Half won’t go to college anyway.

FCM- No heat darling, I agree with you 100%.

By Monkey lover

January 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Actually, yes, I would prefer they have an abortion. Babies raising babies does not make this a better world. Teens aren’t capable of raising a child properly. Their children will probably never go to college. They are hurting us in the long run. They are a drain to society.

By One

January 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

This is a prime example why abortion needs to remain legal. DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!! If they make a “mistake”, don’t let it continue, abort and move on!!! Then we won’t have a whole generation of knuckleheads born to teen moms and dads who are just knuckleheads themselves!!!!

Think about it, this (teen pregnanacy) was quite popular/regular in the early/mid to late 80’s………….now what do we have, a WHOLE generation of ignorant young adults (upper teens to lower/mid 20’s), who can’t seem to pull their pants up and speak proper english. Anybody see a connection here? Anybody?????????

By Chandsie

January 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

I unfortunately became pregnant my Junior year. I was very fortunate that my school offered a Parenting Class. If enrolled in the cass you received FREE in-home child care from a State Lic. individual. I was given a list of homes and was allowed to choose the right one for me. They allowed for 4 weeks of leave time. I was ready to give birth by the time our Winter Break arrived, so I left like all the other students. I ended up having my child the day after Christmas. So my four weeks began then, I returned to school after my 6 weeks,I had 2 extra because of the break. All this allowed me to stay in school and receive my diploma. There were other girls in the class with me, but they still chose to drop-out. I didn’t ask for what happened, but I am glad I had the support. I think its only fair the the unborn babies that there be help for those students

By zynhova

January 10, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Why is everyone still talking about trying to keep the damn horse in the barn????

You are ignoring the discussion topic which is how to handle things WHEN and IF the horse gets out of the barn.

Why does no one want to be prepared? We should be sophisticated enough to remain clear-headed to handle things when they go wrong. But that’s only possible by discussing the possibilities and how to solve them. There’s more to the solution than just making sure the barn door is locked!

By ANN

January 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

@ Jeed ** I agree with you. Maternity Leave will only encourage them to do it again and again and AGAIN at the expense of the tax payers !! Some parents strive so hard and do teach their children about sex, however, they take their hot tailed behinds out there and fall into pregnancy anyway! They fail to realize they are not ready emotionally, physically, or psychologically to deal with the care of a baby thereby putting many parents in the position of HARDSHIP ! Many of these teens and tweens feed themselves sex all day via porn, cable TV, sexually explicit videos right in their residences and where their friends live… you will become what you feed yourselves kids - now suck it up and stop blaming people for your wreckless behavior and KEEP YOU OWN KID (S) !!!

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

So if a teen doesn’t listen to anything that and adult says, by your reasoning, then why bother to teach abstinence only? Doing that is taking too large of a gamble and leaves them completely unprepared for the moment they choose to have sex. You have to prepare kids and teach them all of the ways to have safe sex. It works in Western Europe.

Bottom line is that kids will always have sex. It is utterly foolish and reckless to depend solely on teaching abstinence.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

@Monica—-who (other than Jeff’s comment to expel) said we don’t want to give them tax free education? Most everyone on the board has said that an education is what these parents need most…whether its a GED (I applaude PEN for getting hers she should be proud of it) or a diploma…it is where/how/when they are entitled to get it that we are questioning….Night school, homeschool, alternative school (is that the same as the first 2 I mentioned) repeating the semester they missed, private tutoring (paid by the granparents), the Homebound/Hospital bound, there is probably even an online option, programs are all valid and good options. These should be encourgaged and utilized. Baby factory welfare (multi birth no job/no education being sought) should be stopped….and penalizing parents (by stopping welfare)who are working (but barely make enough)should be stopped too. Compassion for the situation is one thing, but taking steps to accomadate it is a whole different ballgame. I fully believe that pregnant girls should ‘disappear’ into the aforementioned programs rather than walk the regular school halls.

No the teen Daddy should not be off scott free either…he should be at McDs or wherever earning money to pay the bills on that child, including the daycare.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Monkey lover: Thank you, I appreciate that but yes, I know what the blog is about. I was simply following along with the rant that everyone above me went off on. It is obvious that most of the people on here are very opinionated and although that is a wonderful thing and should be respected, I felt that having been a teen Mom myself that the teens that are actually trying deserved a voice. It is obvious to me that most people on this blog have never had to make a hard decision, mistake being the cause or not, because if they had, then they would understand. You are all right because you are saying what you believe. The problem……. what is right for the ones you are speaking for? I guess at this point all I can say is this, I hope none of you have a teen that becomes pregnant or gets another pregnant because most of you have shown the type of support (by this I mean emotional so PLEASE, do not start a rant about parents raising grandchildren, we ALL know that it happens) you would give and THAT is when we, the taxpayers, will be making up for your slack.

Thank you all and have a wonderful day!

By Katie

January 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Steve-O,you are right, teens will always have sex. But, they need to know that there are very harsh consequences if they do. For example, if society says that they cannot return to school, at least the teens will know in advance what the outcome will be. If they choose to have sex then they choose the consequence—simple as that. We baby our teens too much. We need to teach them that their actions do have consequences and they may be harsh ones.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

steveo:

Schools (government) need to get out of sex ed all together.

This is one area where it is CLEARLY the PARENT’s job.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Aaah. Remember the days when young boys and girls had a little shame for such things? I’m not saying they should be hissed at and have condoms and Bibles thrown at them…..but for the love of Trojan….can’t they show something other than prideful indignance at getting pregnant (or getting someone pregnant) in high school??!!! I find this just as insane as prisoners screaming about the injustice of no cable TV, weights, or books….and no, I’m not comparing the actions of the two parties, just the attitude. What happened was by choice. These girls chose to give their bodies away and they chose to see the pregnancy through. That is the joy of living in the USA….choice. Schools have the “choice” to not give MATERNITY LEAVE to pregnant teenagers. This really burns by biscuits. If GOD FORBID one of my daughters got pregnant as a child…cause’ thats what these girls are….I would not expect the school to do anything for her. And I would be hot if she had that expectation. It boils down to accountability. Life is about choices and there are consequences to everyone of them. This particular consequence is….you do not get special treatment if you get pregnant in high school. This is not a place of business with benefits….this is an educational institution. The end result is (hopefully) a diploma, not a benefits package.

By zynhova

January 10, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Jeff:

How is sex ed any different than art ed or science ed? Parents are not always the best equipped to teach certain subjects to their children.

I am a mathemetician. I can better teach my child math than his first grade teacher can. But I couldn’t do a better job teaching how to read and write than she can.

Why is sex ed so special? Is this because our society still views sex as something secret and shameful rather than a normal function of a human being?

Pregnant children should be assisted until they reach a level of self-sustainability.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Parents, by the very definition of the word, have enough experience with sex to be able to pass knowledge on to their children.

This in particular is the HIGHEST of intimate subjects and as such should NOT be taught by the government.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

@zynhova — ans to the horse out of the barn:

1- As far as who should take care of the child while Mom is at school….that is NOT the schools role nor their concern, that is the ‘new’ grandparents worry—especially if Mom is not an emancipated minor. (my first post) 2.Perhaps home study, special courses, or even withdrawing from class and graduating late or making it up during summer school. (sue 8:1 post) 3.Take the whole nine weeks/semester, or YEAR off and come back the next year - repeating the grade level, of course. (jeed 9:12) post… There are answers in the first hour. The remaining posts reiterate that this is a compound issue: teach personal responsiblity up front, encourage no sex/safe sex at home & school, the families of the baby need to be held accountable (grandparents and parents—-and yes, I believe if they are not emancipated teens then regardless of whether the granparents like it or not they (granparent) should be held legally responsible for the baby—-they would be legally responsible for other actions that teen takes). Abortion was mentioned, and I personally favor adoption…but that is a WHOLE different can of worms that adds NO VALUE to this discussion.

Now what do you mean we are not addressing it?

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Katie,

I agree—we should absolutely teach the consequences of sex, both physical and emotional. However, “babying” our kids would be to naively preach “abstinence only” and “true love waits” while ignoring the fact that as maturing teenagers their bodies are changing.

If we wanted to really treat our kids as responsible young people, then we would teach them responsible behavior such as condom and birth control use in addition to abstinence.

Jeff,

Schools are places to learn—and yes, it is the school’s place to teach sex ed because it is reality. What place better for kids to learn about STD’s, pregnancy, and birth control than school. It’s up to parents to teach the emotional side of sex, as well as it’s place in regards to spirituality.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

FCM, Katie at 8:08: As a tax payer, I want my dollars going to teaching kids English, Math, Science and History, not worrying about allowing girls to extend their education by 6 weeks or counceling teen mothers.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

steveo:

Religion is also reality, yet schools in the US are banned from teaching it…

By FCM

January 10, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

@Monica—that indicates Katie wants to educate them, just not counsel them.

By justme

January 10, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

It truly saddens me that people think that these problems with teen pregnancy only exist in lower class families. Truth of the matter is that theses issues are occuring at an alarming rate to teens from all classes and walks of life.

Who are any of you to condemn these kids or render the iron fist upon them. To all of you bloggers that believe explusion will cure the problem you’re in for a rude awakening. Not only will we have more uneducated teens, but it means that they will grow into uneducated adults. Which will come back to bite all of you hypocrites in your fannies.

There is no easy way to change the minds of teens and prevent them from exploring sexual options. No matter how much you talk to a teen about sex and the consquences that could follow doesn’t mean that they’ll take your advice. I wish that you people see there is no remedy to this problem.

Instead it’s a complete lifestyle change. Take it back to the time when movies featured on televison didn’t show sexual acts during the hours that children could even view them. Now there sex in cartoons, sex on the radio, sex topics on the magazine covers, and sex talk in the school, and don’t even mention the internet. What on earth did you think was gonna happen? This sex talk was gonna be ignored.. of course not. Now that the real culprits have found a way into lives of the lazy american people; we’ve managed to do what we do best blame others and look to other to cure this problem.

Don’t see you going after major networks askin them to pull Sex and the City off the air because teens may be viewing this show, or desperate housewives. Want to ruffle some feathers go after the ones who keep make this garbage available. Cozmo, and everyone else.Wake up America, take action against the real culprits not the children.

By Ann

January 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

** @ PEN - Teen moms will always stick together. You all want sympathy for the “mistake” you made…Got news for you - taking your clothes off, getting in bed with someone you are not married to, getting pregnant for someone else to take care of YOUR child IS NOT A MISTAKE !!! Its called FORMICATION !!! Sex outside of MARRIAGE !!! Get it ! A mistake is accidentally picking up someone else’s sweater or something….stop calling your wreckless behavior a mistake - its fornication !!!

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Religion is reality to those who believe in it. It is not the school’s place to teach religion—especially when the school has students of man different faiths. However, it is the school’s job to teach human growth and development, biology, and anatomy. There are aspects about the human reproductive system, as well as aspects about phychological urges and impulses, that I would rather my kids learn in school.

By Matt

January 10, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

I think it is a great idea to offer maternity leave. If they girls don’t get the time off, truth is many drop out of school. That’s why around here some of the schools have daycare. They know that it will be more expensive if these girls drop out of school and become welfare moms. Then people will be b*** about that use of taxpayers money. It’s better for them to have a baby and a diploma then to have a baby and not have a diploma.

By Jill

January 10, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

If the mother- and father-to-be are both in school, both should temporarily drop out (or become homeschooled if that’s an available option) so they can prepare for having the child, have the child, and take an extra 6-8 weeks to get used to things and make daycare arrangements. If all that can be accomplished, then they can go back to school. If there is an option where parents can pick up their schoolwork, perhaps they could stay on pace to graduate. If not, they should be held back. Another option is not going back and getting GEDs.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

I think, unfortunately, it is indeed very neccessary for sex ed to be taught in our schools. Its a sign of the times people….we can either take heed or get blindsided with the reality that is teen pregnancy. All of us will be affected in some way by this. Whether it is one of our sons or daughters that directly deals with it or one of their very close friends…or even one of our neices or nephews. You cannot get away from it. Like it or not, its a bitter pill that must be swallowed.

The problem is we have our PE teachers delving into health issues. At least in our public district they are required to teach a subject other than PE. Even when I was in school, this was the case. Most of these teachers do not take it seriously and the students certainly don’t. I would love to see former teenage mothers and fathers come in and speak to these classes…giving a real world view of what its like. Statistically, a great portion of today’s parents still have trouble speaking to their kids about sex and its consequences. If moms and dads can’t muster the courage to say ” Do not have vaginal, anal or oral sex. Getting pregnant is the very best outcome to hope for when messing around. You could get any number of STD’s; some of which lay dorment for years before waking up to kill you!”. But they also need to be taught that when the time is right…ie marriage…its a beautiful and satisfying experience.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

FCM, I meant that someone who didn’t want tax dollars going to provide special services to teen moms probably wouldn’t support the idea of an alternative school for teen moms.

Another aspect of the issue is the graduation rate and Adequate Yearly Progress. By 2010, one of Georgia’s educational goals is to graduate 100% of its seniors each year in 4 years (which is absolutely ridiculous, btw). If girls who get pregnant drop out and then re-enroll, they become a statistic against the school. Also, attendance at school is mandatory until the age of 16. Legally, a 15-year-old teen mom can’t drop out of school. A 16 year-old who drops out can’t get his or her driver’s license until the age of 18. Forcing teen moms to drop out is sentencing them to welfare, since they would not legally be able to drive to a job.

In no way do I condone teen pregnancy or pre-marital sex. I just think that once the damage has been done, we do need to be more compassionate and accommodating to those who need help. I don’t think that it will be viewed as a reward system. I can’t imagine a girl getting pregnant on purpose because she can miss school for 6 weeks. She will still have to do the school work.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

steveo:

Every single person out there has a religion. Even atheism is a religion.

Therefore, since religion is going to happen - it is a simple fact of life that everyone will have SOME form of religion - why shouldn’t schools teach it as well?

By Katie

January 10, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Let me clarify. I am not a bible thumping abstinence preacher. I am a person who would like all people to accept personal responsibility for all their actions. And as I said, I want my tax dollars to go to teach Math, English (and how to properly speak it), History and Science. Not for counceling teen parents or about sex education. I want abortion offered as an option for these young pregnant women—having a child dramatically changes their life. At such a young age they aren’t even old enough to realize that choosing to keep a baby may not the best choice. I’m sick and tired of the wishy washy attitudes our society has picked up. You can be firm without using biblical terminology or practice.

By Old Physics Teacher

January 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

We’re forgetting one simple thing. No one should care about maternity leave, paternity leave, extra vacations, etc. The children are supposed to ATTEND a certain number of days. They are supposed to LEARN very specific information. I personally don’t care if they ever come to school. That’s not my problem: that’s their parent’s and their problem. If the student can pass my test and not attend my classes, then either my test is too simple, or the student is that smart. Now the State of Georgia has graduation tests the students have to pass to graduate. If they can pass those tests and be on “maternity” leave, I’ve got no problem. If not, I sure am not going to come, off the clock on extra time, and assist “children” who have abrogated “adult” privileges to themselves, and I see no reason the taxpayers should subsidized their personal decisions. Let them drop out for the rest of the semester and come back when they can. They have the “right” to an education. They don’t have a “right” to pass my class or graduate.

By Julie

January 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

@Chandsie-Yes, you did ask for what happened. By having sex. The only foolproof way to delay pregnancy is to wait.

In this day of instant gratification most people, children and adults, don’t know how to wait. Sad.

By Shanaynay

January 10, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Ann is scaring me. She sounds like the mom from “Carrie”.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

JG:

I agree Sex Ed is a very important topic to teach kids.

Where we disagree is that I feel it is not the GOVERNMENT’s place to teach this subject.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

@steve-o……you are giving a misguided take on things. you say religion should not be taught in school due to the fact that it is not a reality for some. What about the Holocaust? That is reality…even though every year I hear of parents and students who say it never happened. Yet, it is still taught. Hm. Some do not believe in The Big Bang Theory. Yet it is still taught. You can dissagree about the “reality” of religion until you wet yourself. That doesn’t negate the fact that it is a neccessary area of study in schools, as is sex education.

By Scooter

January 10, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Maternity leave for the children’s stupid mistake of getting pregnant? Well, that is what “Mother America” does - reduce consequences and politicians gain power from protecting people from their own mistakes. Government, mainly democrats, reduce consequences and act surprised when the bad behavior exacerbates, but they do love the power of dependency!

By madisons mom

January 10, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

@ Old Physics Teacher - I agree whole heartedly with you.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

In reponse to:

By Ann

January 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

** @ PEN - Teen moms will always stick together. You all want sympathy for the “mistake” you made…Got news for you - taking your clothes off, getting in bed with someone you are not married to, getting pregnant for someone else to take care of YOUR child IS NOT A MISTAKE !!! Its called FORMICATION !!! Sex outside of MARRIAGE !!! Get it ! A mistake is accidentally picking up someone else’s sweater or something….stop calling your wreckless behavior a mistake - its fornication !!!

Ann, You are obviously a religious zealot my dear and people like you actually scare me. I did not ask for your sympathy nor do I want it. Had you read anything I said with an open mind you would know that. As I said, I took care of my child and still do. I did not expect, need or want anyone else to. As a matter of fact I have been married to her Father for 15 wonderful years and we have a second child.We work, we pay our taxes and we raise our children with discipline and love while also teaching them to have an open mind and heart. And when I look at my children I am thankful daily that I have them and do not regret any decisions I made regarding them. And just so you know hon, sex before marriage is happening everywhere, I am not condoning it, it is just fact. It is up to parents first and then each individual person regardless of age to make the right decision. Maybe mistake was the wrong word to use but believe it or not, not everyone is 100 percent right all of the time, including you! It amazes me daily that religious people like yourself go to church and “live by the bible” yet turn your back on fellow humans constantly. I do however wish you the best in life because I think that you are definitely going to need it!

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Jeff & Jesse’s Girl,

We’re talking about teen sex, not about religion. Religion is a personal issue that does not belong in a public school. And by the way, Jesse’s Girl, Holocaust denial is a crime in many countries around the world. It is an event that is well-documented and it happened. However, religion is a matter that is personal and private. Who is right and who is wrong? Which religion would we teach in public schools? Which of the thousands of different Christian faiths would we teach? Religion shouldn’t be taught in the classroom, but it should be tolerated among students (i.e. students praying during lunch break or before school, etc).

By Sarah

January 10, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Sex ed is one thing, accommodating poor choices and bad behavior is another. This will only make a girl who is fostering the idea of getting pregnant to go ahead and take the plunge. This will also tempt others into taking some free time off from school. These kids are already making poor and irresponsible choices by having unprotected sex in the first place, we can’t expect them to think past ’ six weeks off from school’mentality. Kids getting pregnant in high school aren’t thinking long term in the first place. Bad idea, totally bad. This sounds like it was conceived by a Democrat, naturally.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

steveo:

Religion is also well documented and happens.

Sex is also THE MOST ‘personal and private’ of things.

My point is that Government should stay out of BOTH.

By Ann

January 10, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

** @ PEN - Teen moms will always stick together. You all want sympathy for the “mistake” you made…Got news for you - taking your clothes off, getting in bed with someone you are not married to, getting pregnant for someone else to take care of YOUR child IS NOT A MISTAKE !!! Its called FORMICATION !!! Sex outside of MARRIAGE !!! Get it ! A mistake is accidentally picking up someone else’s sweater or something….stop calling your wreckless behavior a mistake - its fornication !!!

@ Pen ….It is obvious you are the type who jump to conclusions about people. What I know about you is what YOU stated. You stated you were a teen mom. It sickens me everyday when I think of the consequences those like yourself put upon people in your world - you just didn’t get pregnant but both families got pregnant and had to deal with YOUR issues OUT OF LOVE FOR YOU. Teens and tweens today at 10, 11 and 12 cn’t even feed themselves let alone an expensive infant. I would strongly advise you to take your experience and help those who come across and/or into your circle of humanity. I know of many teen mothers who carry so much grief, but they are too ashamed to help someone else - unfortunately, there shame is probably 1 to 6 years old by now, so its okay to share with those who will listen. I would also advise you to share your same comments to me with God and challenge Him on His words about it. In case you’re not aware of this - if you continue to support your thinking about teens and sex, you will have to answer to Him. Yes, teens AND unmarried adults will always have sex outside of marriage - its still fornication for both, but don’t accept what society is doing as right ! We all pay for your “mistakes.”

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Sex education is also personal and private. My point is that we do not live in a perfect world….and it is far less perfect than it used to be. Given that fact….we are all going to have to give up some of our prideful stances and address subjects that some of us would rather not address. At least not in a school setting. It would not take a great deal of thought and effort to come up with a way to approach religious studies in public schools. As with sex education, we could make the two optional electives for the students. Hell people….lets keep this all in perspective. Lets make driver’s ed an acroos-the-board requirement THEN tackle the toughies like religion and sex.

By Maude

January 10, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Instead of giving these KIDS time off from school for maternity leave, why don’t we just put condoms in the school bathrooms, like tampon dispensers.

Or, here’s a thought, - Sex Education. Remember back in the day when we had to take this class (those of us in our late 40’s and up), and we had to be responsible 24/7 for a 10 lb bag of flour?

We were broken off into “husband and wife” groups and had to pretend we were married with this “baby”. It worked for me, as I didn’t have my child until I was 31.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Ann, I am not a teenage mom. On the contrary I was a virgin when I married at the age of 25. So I am not a teen mom “sticking together” with the rest of them. I am a high school teacher who sees a need to educate everyone, even those who fornicate.

If y’all had any idea what goes on in a high school, this issue wouldn’t be an issue. Getting pregnant is not the worst thing a girl could do. You need to be worried about the gang members sitting next to your children, and the influence that they have on your child, instead of the girl who just had a baby. You should demand that those with more than one drug offense should be expelled instead of a teen mom. You should demand that those with a criminal record should not be allowed in a regular high school (because they are). What about the 6 students from Northview High School who broke into 150 cars? Should they have a chance at an education? Is getting pregnant worse than theft? I don’t understand why pregnant girls should be denied the opportunity to finish school with a diploma when all of the above have that opportunity.

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Sarah,

Teenagers girls don’t want to get pregnant, rather it happens by accident when they don’t take the proper precautions. Maternity leave is fair and it lets teenage moms stay in school so they can one day get a better job to provide for their children. Or would you rather they drop out and go on welfare?

Jeff,

Religion is very subjective. Not everybody agrees that Jesus was the Messiah or that there is only one God Jehovah or that Mohammed is the messenger of God. It’s good that you think that religion should not be taught in schools.

In regards to sex ed. My medical records are a personal and private matter, yet I believe that students should learn about biology and anatomy. Sex is very real and it is a natural function. It should be taught in school.

By Ann

January 10, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

@ Shanaynay - I’m glad I’m scarring you. I hope you will think about the subject more and act responsibly if applicable :-)

By Shanaynay

January 10, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Pen, maybe Ann will pray for your immoral, fornicating soul.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

JG:

we are all going to have to give up some of our prideful stances and address subjects that some of us would rather not address.

Agreed. PARENTS need to get off their tails and do their jobs as PARENTS in regards to sex ed.

The GOVERNMENT should keep its tail OUT.

By Ann

January 10, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

By Monica

January 10, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Ann, I am not a teenage mom. On the contrary I was a virgin when I married at the age of 25. So I am not a teen mom “sticking together” with the rest of them. I am a high school teacher who sees a need to educate everyone, even those who fornicate.

@ Monica - Honey, I think you missed the whole Blog idea here. Go back and read what this is about. I think you’re on the wrong Blog.

By Cali's finest

January 10, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

If the purpose of schools is to educate teens then yes these young women/children should be allowed time to properly heal and bond with their children and return to school. I do believe they should be held responsible for all of the class work they missed while out so if they do keep up with the work then GOOD JOB but if not then it shows that they did not take their education seriously. Furthermore, I see alot of bloggers discussing the whole bad role model scenario… Personally seeing two of my friends become mothers at a young aged discouraged me from engaging in unprotected sex and children should not be other children’s role models in the first place.

We want our schools to produce productive citizens and a young mother is the first one who will find she needs an education so why not give them an opportunity to at least keep up with their schooling rather then casting them and their child aside. Who knows this may help but a slight dent in the number of young mothers who rely on welfare to help them provide for their families. FURTHERMORE, if you are going to penalize the young ladies and not allow them to recover fully from a MEDICAL CONDITION then you need to kick these young fathers out too!!! Didn’t think you’d like that one.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

steveo:

Teaching Biology and Anatomy I have no problems with. Teach them all about penises, testosterone, testes, vaginas, uteruses, fallopian tubes, ovaries, sperm, eggs, etc from a scientific perspective.

Teaching ‘sex ed’ is where I say the government should get OUT.

Abstinence-only, ‘safe sex’, homosexuality, STD’s, pregnancy, oral sex, anal sex, etc.. ALL of that should be left to the PARENT.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

To all of you bloggers that believe explusion will cure the problem you’re in for a rude awakening Again who said this other Jeff the one time? Don’t see you going after major networks askin them to pull Sex and the City off the air because teens may be viewing this show, or desperate housewives. Want to ruffle some feathers go after the ones who keep make this garbage available. Cozmo, and everyone else.Wake up America, take action against the real culprits not the children. I think Howard Stern said it best: He was asked would he let his children listen to the garbage he does on his show (back then just radio) he said “Of course not that’s just good parenting.” Certainly not using our dollars to propogate this stuff, not watching it ourselves etc might help but probably not….the “hollywood” crowd that does this type film does not have a clue what mainstream American families really want….I mean they do ‘Family Guy’ and ‘Two and Half Men’ at 7:00 on a weekday!!!!!(Even my children know those are not ‘child appropriate’. Side note : “2.5 Men” got a Teen Choice award in 2007).

Educate the new parents? Absolutely! It is still just a question of when/where/how….I have no issue holding the new parents place in their current grade so they can come back….And why don’t we encourage more adoptions?

By Sarah

January 10, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

steve-o, earth is calling you. Teens do not want to become pregnant. Are you kidding? Some young girls in urban or inner city schools wear their pregnancies as if it’s a badge of honor. Gang banger girls do it all the time. Also, the sad fact is that they do drop out and go on welfare, hence the tax hikes we’re always facing.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Cali:

Pregnancy is about the ONLY ‘medical condition’ I know of that one can ACTIVELY choose to have.

By Pen

January 10, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Well……….here we go again:

@ Pen ….It is obvious you are the type who jump to conclusions about people. What I know about you is what YOU stated. You stated you were a teen mom. It sickens me everyday when I think of the consequences those like yourself put upon people in your world - you just didn’t get pregnant but both families got pregnant and had to deal with YOUR issues OUT OF LOVE FOR YOU. Teens and tweens today at 10, 11 and 12 cn’t even feed themselves let alone an expensive infant. I would strongly advise you to take your experience and help those who come across and/or into your circle of humanity. I know of many teen mothers who carry so much grief, but they are too ashamed to help someone else - unfortunately, there shame is probably 1 to 6 years old by now, so its okay to share with those who will listen. I would also advise you to share your same comments to me with God and challenge Him on His words about it. In case you’re not aware of this - if you continue to support your thinking about teens and sex, you will have to answer to Him. Yes, teens AND unmarried adults will always have sex outside of marriage - its still fornication for both, but don’t accept what society is doing as right ! We all pay for your “mistakes.”

ANN- I am not going to apologize for SICKENING you because that would be putting my lovely child down in the worst way. I will ask you this and really, you do not need to reply unless that is the highlight of your day because I will not be coming back on here, it is obvious that this discussion has taken a turn down crazy road…. My question: How did both families have to deal with my pregnanacy, and just so you know her Father did have a hand in it too. It was not that sex before marriage story religion made up called divine intervention,other than to have a beautiful grandchild? Sure, we were young, sure they were young, but WE got pregnant, WE took care of her, and WE have always “dealt” with it ourselves. I do assist other teens in any way that I can.Sometimes thay have noone or they only have people like yourself judging and name calling. You have taken my heartfelt opinion and story and turned it into something ugly and religious and I do not appreciate it at all. You have not paid for my “mistake” in any way nor would I want you to. As far as answering to God….never met him but if I do I will be sure to put in a good word for you. It is unfortunate that this had to happen. I started this with an opinion and a story that I thought would enlighten some. Obviously I made yet another sickening “mistake” Seriously, good luck in life lady. I can still say that to you because I feel very very sorry for you. Again, if you feel the need to reply, by all means….knock your crazy self on out. I, however, am going to go enjoy my day and look forward to my children coming home.

By Kiki

January 10, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

I think the girls should get two weeks off, MAX, unless there were complications with the pregnancy. Also, during the two weeks off, I think the mothers should have to complete school assignments or risk falling behind when they do return to school. It’s their own fault that they decided to get pregnant. Teenagers should not be having sex at all! They know exactly what causes a pregnancy, and should take responsibility for their actions. Plenty of grown women in the real world don’t get four weeks off for maternity leave. Why should these irresponsible girls get more? I just wish there was also a way to make the equally irresponsible young men take responsibility in this as well.

By Mat

January 10, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Monica, that’s stupid.
I am a high school teacher, and I am disgusted at how nonchalant they are about having babies. If you think about the long-term, how unprepared these girls are, how they will continue the abusive cycle of planned single parenthood- it is the worse thing they can do. Get a clue.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Jeff, how about obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, and lung cancer? Eating at McDonalds, Burger King and Wendy’s leads to the fist three, while smoking leads to the last one. We all must live with the consequences of our life choices.

Ann, I think that I am on the right blog. What point were you trying to make? My interpretation of your post is that pregnant girls did not make a mistake, but rather they fornicated. You began your post to Pen by brushing off her comments simply because she herself was a teen mom. I simply stated that I was not a teen mom but still felt sympathy toward someone who sinned.

By justme

January 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

What does religion in school have to do with sex. Correct me if I’m wrong don’t most religions view sex as a sacred act that should be shared with one spouse?

The issue at hand is rather or not to give these parents the opportunity to recover after birth. It’s not different from someone who has surgery. Would it be fair to make you go straight to work from the operating room…of course not. Give these teens a chance to heal then let them get back to what’s important..an EDUCATION! I’m not taking sides with either party.

Like I stated earlier you can all rant and rave about what should or shouldn’t be done, but nobody is ranting and raving to the real culprits. You want a solution then start at the source that keeps adding the fuel to the fire. Problem solved.

There are some real shallow people on this earth, and they will do anything for the almighty dollar. Even if that means selling sex to your kids.

Parents please continue to educate your children about making healthy choices and decisions.

By Ann

January 10, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

@ Pen…As far as answering to God….never met him

I knew you would be back…this is your problem… You never met him. Start there and things will be so clear for you.

I’m certainly not going to argue with you about anyting I’ve stated - just start with meeting Him - I can assure you - He will help you.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Monica:

There are no DIRECT correlations between fast food and diabetes, high blood pressure, and obesity. Each of those three can be caused by things other than fast food.

Same with smoking. Lung cancer can be caused by other things.

There is only ONCE choice that leads to pregnancy, and it is a very ACTIVE choice.

By Shanaynay

January 10, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Ann obviously didn’t see what happened to Carrie’s mother.

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Sarah,

I have friends and relatives that are from the “ghetto” and I know some girls from the inner-city that have gotten pregnant. NONE OF THEM PLANNED OR WANTED TO GET PREGNANT!!! And no…they didn’t wear it like a badge of honor. Fortunately some of them were able to still go to college.

And who are these “gang-banger” girls who drop out and go on welfare? Why don’t you just avoid the imagery and just say young black girls or young Hispanic girls? I mean that’s what you mean. I know several white girls from affluent backgrounds who have gotten pregnant, but their parents had the financial means to:

a) get them an abortion

b) send them away to live with folks out of town during the latter months of the pregnancy in order ot hide it.

Must be nice to be rich and white in this country because you can get away with anything. Ask W.

By steve-o

January 10, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Monica:

There are no DIRECT correlations between fast food and diabetes, high blood pressure, and obesity. Each of those three can be caused by things other than fast food.

Same with smoking. Lung cancer can be caused by other things.

{SIGH….face——->palm}

There’s no way to have a logical discussion with you if you believe what you just said about smoking and fast food.

Have a good day everyone.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Mat, by the “worst,” I meant in degrees of breaking a moral code, not in preparing for one’s future. Many stated that pregnant girls should be removed from a regular school because of their negative influence. I was citing examples of teens who participate in deadlier activities that can lead to lives of crime.

Jeff, you have a point there, though my point is that we all must answer for our choices that we make.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

steveo:

The teenage black females that I taught in the suburbs certainly treated pregnancy as a badge of honor, by and large. The black females that did NOT were in the vast MINORITY of the girls that I personally interacted with.

When I went to a rural county with a 90% black population, the trend was proven ever moreso.

Again, those are from PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. Yours may be different, and that is GREAT. But don’t try to call racism down on someone just for different observations.

By Successful Teen Mom

January 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Wow is there a lot of judgement going on here or what??

In answer to the original question: Yes, the state should have to abide by the medical opinion of doctors. If a student needs to be at home, it shouldn’t matter whether it’s because of a chronic illness or because of birth.

I had my son at the end of my sophomore year of high school when I was 16. I stayed home for 4 weeks and got all of my work done. I was in all gifted and AP classes and although I had the option of someone coming to my home with my assignments and help as needed, even my counselor told me it would be a waste. I was already much further along academically than the people the school system employs to bring students who are homebound their work. I literally spent maybe 3 hours a day getting my school work done (half of the 7 hours a day at school is spent chit-chatting, changing classes and going to lunch anyway). I had straight-As that semester just as I had every other semester in school. If I really only wanted a GED and a life-sentence of low income without a hope of future improvement, I could have done that immediately. But I knew I was smarter than that and I wanted more than a GED so I was willing to put up with the hassle of it and the dirty looks and gossip going on because that mattered less to me than the prospect of a good life. Maybe so many girls wouldn’t just drop out and be sentenced to a life on welfare if someone actually encouraged them to get a decent education and ignore all the BS that goes along with it.

I went to school up until the Friday before I had my son and was told I could NOT return until I had a note from my doctor. I had to beg my doctor to give me a note to return after 4 weeks since the standard is 6, just so I could go take my finals.

As for being pregant and it encouraging other girls- HA! What a joke. Everyone got to see me puke my guts out for weeks, gain weight and be miserable and stress about the whole situation and then they got to hear my horror stories of labor and delivery. If anything, that encouraged them NOT to make the same bad decision I had. Those friends who did stand beside me are still my friends and you know what? Not a single one of them had a baby before they got married. As a side note here, I do think one of the best forms of future birth control for teen moms is to make them have natural birth. Believe me, my son is now 12 and I STILL don’t want to get pregnant again. I didn’t have sex again until I was married 4 1/2 years later.

I returned to HS full-time in August after giving birth. My parents were very supportive of me and my son and my mom quit work to watch him so I could return to school. No government help there.

One year of high school after my son was born was enough for me so my senior year I went to college full-time. By the time I graduated from high school, I had a two-year old, a year of college done and had been working for 2 years.

The only government help I did get was Medicaid for my son until he was 2 when I suddenly started making “too much money” to be on it (and if anyone thinks you can afford medical care making $7.50 an hour you are off your rocker- and yes, this was before PeachCare existed). I think the state laws encourage you to not try harder because all they do is punish you if you do. But my vision was obviously beyond that. By then I was starting college and just took out student loans to help cover living expenses since my full-time job didn’t allow me to do that even though I had HOPE and didn’t pay a dime of my tution.

Yes my mom quit working to stay home with my son but did that mean they took care of him without me? Absolutely not! The minute I walked in the door, he was mine. If I wanted to do something after school or work without him, I had to pay a babysitter. I had to work to buy formula, clothes and diapers. Oh and of course the ‘sperm-donor’, as I like to call him, disappeared about a month after my son was born and never paid any child support. I of course didn’t have the money for an attorney and the state’s Dept. of Child Support Enforcement is a joke. Do you know when they finally called me about my case?? When my son was 5! I had no idea where the sperm donor was by then and quite frankly, didn’t want to have to deal with him even if I did.

I graduated from college 4 years after graduating from HS and kept HOPE the whole way through all the while working full-time and paying for daycare. Was it easy? HELL NO! Was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY! And now I probably pay more in taxes each year than the 2 years of doctors appointments that the state paid for. Oh and just a side note, I guarantee you the state pays for more healthcare of poor people who had babies after HS and illegal aliens than for healthcare of kids born to teenage parents.

I know there are a lot of teenage mothers who are typical lazy, good-for-nothing people who have no ambition in life. But to immediately label a girl that way just because she is pregnant is ludicrous. As someone stated above, if you force them to drop out, you might as well agree to put them on welfare forever. Now days just a GED isn’t going to get you anywhere and forcing ALL pregnant girls to go to an alternative school isn’t the answer either. If I had been forced to do that, I definitly would have dropped out rather than be forced to sit around doing work I had done years earlier just for a piece of paper.

By HelKat

January 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Just an observation to Ann’s comments to Pen…my two cent’s; Ann, you are a religious, bible thumping, nut job, freak. Take your Bible and your God and go …. yourself. It is people like you throughout history in the name of your God that have caused so many atrocities upon the world.

By Concerned

January 10, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

People, no special consideration should be given to these individuals. There are consquences to every bad decision. The right to an education should be considered a priviledge. Get pregnant, have babies, and accept the responsiblities.

By Successful Teen Mom

January 10, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Concerned: do you think that a girl who gets pregnant should just sit at home and continue to get pregant over and over and over? Exactly how are they supposed to accept responsibilities if they DON’T have an education in order to get a decent job and make a living???

By FCM

January 10, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

@Monica—-thank you for the clarification I guess I misunderstood the post I was referring to.

Adequate Yearly Progress. That is a whole different think I take issue with….a school should not be responsible for wether or not a child attends…if they are a minor their PARENT should.

@ the forum generally: Why do we make schools/welfare systems/others responsible for the choices being made by certain individuals? If a teen at 2AM kills somebody in a drunk driving accident who is accountable? That teen and (if he’s under 18) his PARENTS. To me pregnancy is no different except that you don’t end an individuals life, you start one…..and whether or not the ‘teens’ involved life is over….well the teen drunk drivers life was over too so still no different.

The question was maternity leave: According to Fulton County School Attendance Policy an excused absence is defined: “Personal illness of the student or when attendance in school would endanger the health of the student or the health of others. Upon the student’s return to school, appropriate medical documentation may be required within three days of the absence”….in which case Maternity Leave is unnecessary provided the OB provides the correct documentation to prove they were out, under doctor care, and now released to go back to school (again 6 week Post Pardum check up should be able to handle this).

As far as grades & absences…Fulton Policy says: “Grades and Absences: Final student course grades shall not be penalized because of absences if the following conditions are met: 1) Absences are justified and validated for excusable reasons. 2) Make-up work for excused absences is completed satisfactorily. 3) Local school boards are not required to provide make-up work for unexcused absences. 4) In the instances where the above conditions are not met, penalties and consequences are to be determined and imposed by the local school boards.” So it appears the student would need to make up or keep up with all work missed.

I also did a search on Pregnancy and found no specific documentation regarding attendance with that issue.

@ Ann—Christians like you makes others of us look bad. Jesus asked the woman if no one threw a stone, he said if they did not condemn you then neither will I. The text also says “Judge not lest ye be judged.” The Jesus I know and have in my heart has compassion amd for these and others….Mary was by most accounts an unwed teen mother yet Gabriel told Joseph not to set her aside. Yes, I believe that Mary was innocent of FORNICATION (regular bloggers please see my humor in capping that)…still to the general public she must have looked like she did the deed.

By .

January 10, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

This…The right to an education should be considered a priviledge...doesn’t make any sense. How is a right a priviledge?

In America, it’s a right.

By Maude

January 10, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Ann Where exactly did you meet God. Did he call and set up a date at a restaurant or did you two go shopping? How did he look, what was he wearing? Did someone introduce you to him, or did you know it was him when you SAW him? Are you sure it wasn’t a ghost you saw?

I need to know. When someone tells me to get to know God, I need to meet him first and see what kind of a person he really is. I mean, I’ve heard, but you never really can believe everything you hear right?……..

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff…you cannot possibly be so dern niave to think that the majority of parents are having these discussions with their kids. Should they be ? Abso-freakin-lutely! But its not happening. The only other logical comclusion to come to is include sex ed in the general cirriculum. If nothing else, do as I suggested before, make it an optional elective for the students. But the need for it far out weighs your…and anyone else’s….disdain for it. Kids are out there doing what feels good. Sex feels good…period. They need to be taught consequences. I believe the government should stay the hell out of an ADULT’S bedroom. But if as adults, we can’t come together and teach our kids in our homes…..then open up a flippin’ book and learn about where not to stick the penis and how to keep one’s legs closed. Chapter 2 should deal with what happens if you ignore that advice.

By JJ

January 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Jeff I do not want the government teaching my child about religion.

I myself do not believe in God or organized religion. I do not force my views on others, as I don’t want them to force thiers on me. That’s one of the beauties of this country - Freedom OF religion.

Besides, with all the different religions in this world, how do you decide which one would/should be taught?

Churches don’t teach math, and I don’t want schools preaching. Religion should be taught at home, not in the public education system. That’s what private shools and home schooling are for.

Teaching religion will not solve the teen age pregnancy problem. Educating these kids, not just the girls, but the boys too.

By Monica

January 10, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

People, no special consideration should be given to these individuals. There are consquences to every bad decision.

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that a 15 year old takes his dad’s car for a joy ride, has a wreck, gets a bad concussion and breaks his jaw. He is in the hospital for three days, but is instructed by his doctor to stay home for at least four weeks as his jaw is wired shut. His situation is a direct result of a bad decision. By your above statement, his absences should not be excused, and he should not be allowed the privilege of an education for the time he missed.

Jeff, my husband is a Healthcare Science Teacher. I told him about your comments concerning medical conditions that you actively choose. He told me to tell you to check out the documentary “Supersize Me.”

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

JG:

Just because a parent is a bad parent does NOT mean the government needs to do the parent’s job.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

So using your logic, we should just let these kids slip through the crack? To hell with them! If they get an STD or pregnant and become yet another blight for our tax dollars….so what? They have bad parents, they deserve it? Look at it from another view. Some of these kids…regardless of blood line…should not procreate. Perhaps a little sex ed would curb their desire to share their tainted seed.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

JJ:

My point was that I don’t think government schools should teach EITHER subject.

Monica:

A) Why would I watch a movie made for indoctrination purposes? Had it been made as an open search for truth, you might have a more convincing argument. As is, you’re searching for truth in regards to the Second Ammendment by watching Bowling for Columbine.

B) Only by other choices in addition to the fast food does fast food begin to cause those issues - the fast food alone, while not HELPING matters by any stretch of the imagination, does not ACTIVELY CAUSE those conditions.

By TEE

January 10, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

THIS BLOG IS ON FIRE TODAY!!!!!!

I am a 27 year old black female. I graduated from hs in 1999 in Cobb County. I am not exaggerating when I say this. A girl that I went to school with had 3 kids before we got to high school (had 2 and pregnant with #3). When I got to high school I was astonished at how many girls were pregnant or already were mothers. It made me so sick to my stomach.They were proud- they were boastful- no remorse. I can’t remember anyone having a “baby daddy” that wanted anything to do with the situation. The school didn’t have a daycare, but there were area churches that provided free daycare to teen mothers. Then all they had to do was apply for wic, medicaid and the TANF check and they were set. They had various programs for when they were out after having the baby. They returned to school and guess what- most were pregnant again before graduation. It is made to be too easy for teen parents. It does set a trap and the weak ones continue to fall into the same trap over and over. My statement applies to all races because I knew one in EVERY culture that had a baby- Asian and Indian too.

I must be honest though. It really doesn’t matter whether maternity leave is granted or not. Teen pregnancy will not stop. Granting leave or not- this epidemic will not cease. If we provide these girls with additional assistance, paid for by taxpayers money, things will be easy for them. If we don’t and they drop out and end up unproductive and on welfare- we still pay. it’s a lose lose for taxpayers.

The other reality is that if we provide help-some of these girls will still turn into sorry, unproductive, welfare collecting baby machines- while some will go on and make wiser decisions in life. And the same thing will happen if we don’t. So really it doesn’t even matter.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

@Successful Teen Mom : again you prove my point….Maternity leave is not necessary because adherence to the policy (dr. note, dr. care, make up work ,etc) was done. FMLA (Maternity Leave) is granted to assure that the parents will not lose their job/source of income (nobody said the leave is paid) when they go out to have child. FMLA also covers things like cancers, caring for family with the illnesses etc. It is my understanding that your having a baby did not cause you to lose your seat in school…so why would we grant you leave? You had an absence,and presumably the school boards in Denver have an absentee policy…IF the absentee policy does not allow for long term medical absences then it should be reviewed and revised accordingly, because according to ADA pregnancy is considered a short term disablity and schools have to accomodate those.

By Chris

January 10, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

I have a suggestion, why not have a separate but equal (in educational terms) school for the knocked up?

Two, Four, Six, Eight, All us girls are three months late!

Seriously, remove them from regular school and have a separate school for them to attend. That way they could have daycare and maybe little jobs for the new “mothers” to do. Especially educating them in how to properly raise and care for the little b*******.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

JG:

Government’s job is NOT to protect us from ourselves.

As a matter of fact, the Declaration of Independence states this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Note that Governments are “instituted among men” ONLY to “secure these rights” of “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”.

NOWEHERE does it say “and to protect men from themselves”.

By teacher

January 10, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Under NO circumstance should this be allowed. It only endorses them getting pregnant in the first place which is ludacris!

By .

January 10, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Do you mean ludicrous? Meaning “amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity, exaggeration, or eccentricity”?

Or do you mean Ludacris, the rap star???

By Successful Teen Mom

January 10, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Great, another teacher that can’t spell: ludicrous is the word I think you were looking for, Ludicris is a rapper.

By Chris

January 10, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I forgot to add something to my earlier post. I feel for the children of these loose girls. While the mothers and the act that they partake in should be frowned upon, the children should not be made to suffer for their parents stupid, foolish decisions. It is for them, the kids that we the tax payer should somehow look out for. How, do not know, but don’t throw them on the trash heap of society.

By teen mom 20 yrs ago

January 10, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Bottom line: Quit bashing, be glad they didn’t abort and realize that babies are a gift from God. Yes, teens may be too young in this generation to be having babies because they still want to have fun. But remember, most women (your grandparents) had babies in their teens. It’s not some Western problem that just emerged - teen moms have been around for centuries. That said, this generation of moms may not have daddy support, so they need an education. I’m a teacher and don’t keep up with the pregnancy laws for students (that’s my admins job), but all I know is that the Christian thing to do is support all parents and children, regardless of irresponsiblity, and be blessed at another creation from God. An education will benefit the babies in the long run, so make sure we all remember that people make mistakes and as a society work to fix problems, not add to them.

By Jeanne

January 10, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Being a new mom, 4 weeks is just about the time you’re getting settled into a routine, not freaking out so much, just starting to feel comfortable with your new baby. I think the girls should be given the opportunity to skip the quarter or semester, with no adverse action, an resume their schooling the following quarter or semester. Furthermore, if the child’s father is still in the picture and also in school, he should have the same option. What makes anyone-especially school officials-think that the first few months after the birth of a child is some sort of vacation???

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Jeanne:

For a 12 yo sexually active girl, that is EXACTLY what she thinks.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

@Jeanne—what do you mean by with no adverse action—-they should be promoted without doing the work? Or let back into school at the stage they left at?

By jeanne

January 10, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

@fcm—yes, I mean where they left off. Sheesh. I forgot this involves dealing with gov’t officals and you have to spell everything out.

By jeanne

January 10, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

@fcm—yes, I mean where they left off. Sheesh. I forgot this involves dealing with gov’t officials and you have to spell everything out.

By Bill Clinton

January 10, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

L like to think I helped alot of teenage mothers get their start.

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By AJC CENSOR

January 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

You only have to post ONCE Jeanne

By SWA

January 10, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Why are people using the word “fornicate” like we live in the 1800’s? Its called sex people!

By A Teacher

January 10, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

I am sure that you all will be interested to know that in the state of Georgia along with leave for the new mom,the father of the child is also allowed excused absences from school following the birth of a child!

By Sarah

January 10, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Mmy, from all the post from the magna cum laude pregnant teenies that had babies at fifteen or sixteen, I am so impressed that you all did so well. Now, for a reality check. Let’s hear from the high school drop outs at age sixteen still working the drive through window at Burger King, still living with mom, no husband in sight. This scenario is a tad bit more real than all you professing how wonderful your lives are at thirty with a seventeen year old child. I don’t imagine a lot of girls that are nineteen with a child are at the top of the dating list for college bound young males.

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 10, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Gosh, we are still having high school girls getting pregnant? I thought we were teaching abstinance to these kids instead of sex education. Don’t tell me the abstinance programs aren’t working. Yikes…what now? Condoms maybe?

By FCM

January 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

I should have done this earlier:

A. An excused absence will be absence with permission of the parent/guardian and school principal. Such absences include those that are the result of the following:

OK somebody tell me how Americans with Disablity defines Pregnancy as a temporary disablity….and the above policy (from the Denver Public Schools site) means that the kid has to be back in school the day after discharge?

By Martha

January 10, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Pregnancy is no disability, nor is it an illness.

What are we going to do about the middle-schoolers who get pregnant?

Here’s a deal…

Have one baby on welfare, okay. Have more than one, all aid is stopped. I am personally sick and tired of supporting young, stupid, unwed mothers, b******* babies and sorry-azz sperm donors.

Make an abortion mandatory, or at least easier for them to obtain.

By Tom

January 10, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Gee, here’s an idea. Hows about we start teaching our children that sex is meant for two consenting adults (male and female) as the Bible says. God created it that way for a reason. Hows about we stop accepting pre-marital sex as the norm and get back to what God intended it to be? Hows about we stop glamorizing sex in the movies, media, and television and start educating our children appropriately? Hows about we stop buying all the pornography and movies and television shows that bank their profits on our willingness to destroy what God created for good? Hows about we stop giving persons like Paris Hiltion immense coverage for nothing more than a sex tape? This idea of giving maternity leave to TEENS makes me angry. We are destroying ourselves piece by piece, soul by soul. God is God and we are not! Let’s call this what it is…sin! and let’s stop glamorizing it and making excuses for our bad behaviors!

By MrLiberty

January 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Sure, why have any consequences. Why not buy them a house, get them a great government job, pay for a live-in nanny, get food delivered everyday and handle any other problem that might come up.

Is there ever going to be a time in this country when we might ask someone to pay for the consequences of their actions?? They get free condoms, can get the morning after pill on demand, have access to safe and sometimes free abortions, get all the education on sex and preventing pregnancy that mine and everyone else’s tax dollars can afford and yet here she still stands - pregnant and whining for more.

Maybe if we shut down the government breeding houses (schools) and let individuals and the free market address the problem, we might be able to solve this situation without more of my tax money.

You can’t legislate morality and you certainly can’t spoonfeed it either. Just look at america. We have already had one depression and now we are setting up for another. There are those who are trying to educate before it happens. Looks like experience, not education is the only way we will learn.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

@Martha—we are not determing whether or not pregnancy is an illness or disablity—-the government/legal system already made that determination. So your argument is invalid based on your judgement that pregnancy is not one. However, I think you are wrong since mom and baby need medical care while pregnant, while delivering, and post partum.

@Tom—we have stated all day that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Your thinking was espoused by many including myself with and without the biblical references. Same with the media.

@Mr. Liberty—WOW! Something we agree on.

Am I the only one who sees adoption as a good solution to once the horse is out of the barn?

It appears (surpring me) that we have a concensus today: No they should not have to go back the day after delivery. Yes they need their education. No Maternity Leave is not the answer. Alternative methods (homeschooling, doing make-up work, graduating w/a different class/summer school)are seen as better solutions.

We do not have a concensus on what they teen should do with/about the baby once she determines she is pregnant—which is fortunately not todays discussion….

By John in Tampa, FLA

January 10, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Tom: we tried it your way by teaching abstinance. What a complete and total failure. Just say no doesn’t work with alchohol, drugs and obviously sex. Bury your head in the sand all you want…TEACH SEX ED IN SCHOOL. Stop denying Federal funding to schools that do teach sex ed. W’s misguided, faith based initiatives ARE NOT WORKING. Time to face reality folks…KIDS HAVE SEX.

By FCM

January 10, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

John in Tampa—-it ain’t just the kids having sex….I know pleanty of women who are ‘single’ and get bit…then try to figure out how to juggle it all…

Dang, my first child was conceived in wedlock while I was on the pill…I know many a firstborn that was ‘hatched’ that way.

By Jessica

January 10, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

I stopped reading the comments around 12:30 because they became too off subject and ridiculous. Back on topic, here is my two sense:

To every one who believes protected sex completely protects pregnancy: are you kidding me?! Read the back of a condom box. They are NOT 100% effective. And the Pill, the patch, the ring, and the shot? 99% effective at BEST. NOTHING is 100%. I’ve seen more than a handful of pregnancies or miscarriages from pregnancy be the product of using BOTH forms of “protected” sex. A condom and secondary form is probably the safest and most effective way to go, but guess what?— neither of them work 100% of the time, even when used properly, and SURPRISES do happen! Every day!

To those who believe in abstinence only education: take your blinders off and open your eyes. This is NOT WORKING.

To those who believe sex ed has no place in schools: well, I can’t say I disagree with you 100%, but at the same time, parents aren’t stepping up to do THEIR job and teach their child about this, so who else is qualified to do so? Their uneducated 16 year old peer, or a teacher who has education on the subject? Forcing the issue out of schools isn’t going to make it go away, nor is it going to make the parents step up and take responsibility on the matter, though every day I wish it would. Sadly, it seems all parents care about today is their lives or being their childs best friend instead of what they should be: the PARENT. I’d rather have my tax dollars pay a system to properly educate teens on sex (and yes, include the proper way to use a condom, etc) than shun and punish the teens that don’t receive correct information or proper parenting (b/c that really isn’t their fault) and wind up pregnant, because once they’ve done the damage continuing to punish them isn’t going to make the situation any better, its just going to worsen it, and they’re going to end up being JUST LIKE THEIR PARENTS. And so the cycle will continue.

To those who believe in punishing a teen even further for becoming pregnant: Yes, let’s look at how stupid that is from a medical perspective. Punishing a teen that is probably already feeling the weight and stupidity of their decisions is only going to cause more stress on the body — a YOUNG and FRAGILE body that has hormones running rampant. Guess what? These hormones penetrate the placenta and have a detrimental affect on a fetus! Any number of issues could result including behavior disorders, learning disabilities, etc. etc. So by what I’m reading here, instead of educating the teens, a good bit of you would rather punish them AND their unborn child, who is probably already going to have to struggle to adapt to society when older in the first place. These kids become labeled as troublemakers and problem children and are shunned by school systems, and I’m sure there’s another blog dedicated to ranting about these kids on here too. You’re taking a problem, making it worse for the immediate future, then capitalizing on that for years to come. That’s smart!

On maternity leave for high schoolers: YES. BRING IT ON. Why? Too many parents nowadays don’t EVER take the time to bond with their child, and the first weeks of life are the best and most precious times to do so. Children who don’t get this opportunity often have attachment, abandonment, behavioral, trust, and emotional issues, etc. What does this mean? Later in their life, when it becomes imperative for them to listen to their parents about things like pre-marital sex and condom use, they are less likely to see the parent as an authority or someone they can trust and listen to on the subject and/or less likely to even sit with the parent and have the conversation in the first place. No, I don’t think it should be made easy at this point for the new mom, but punishing and shunning her isn’t going to help the future of society because you’re punishing her helpless little baby too. Take home assignments, GED, postponing graduation a year, homeschooling, etc, are all options that should be considered in addition to maternity leave. Monetary compensation should NOT be offered, but access to parenting classes wouldn’t be that bad of an idea. After all, we WANT them to become GOOD parents so THEIR child doesn’t go and make the same mistakes they did!

And make the father work too. He’s just as accountable for the new baby as she is.

Ignoring the damage that has already been done isn’t going to solve the problem, nor is corporal punishment for those who slip up.

I personally feel that people should have to have a license to be parents. You have to have a license to drive, own a gun, get married, why not for parenting? Being a good parent is by far one of the most important things, and yet every day completely unqualified and unfit people are granted a new child while people who would make amazing parents but are reproductively challenged spend years on adoption waiting lists, sometimes to still never be able to have a child of their own. I’m sure I’m going to get reamed for my opinion, but I don’t care. Sometimes experience is the best teacher. There are many ways a system like this could be adopted, like requiring payment for the license (b/c if you can’t pay for that, how the hell do you think you can pay for a child?), a certain time frame to prove competency, etc, that would bring kids who deserve a good future to loving homes and put a stop to the welfare sucking baby factories.

By DB

January 10, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

If my daughter became pregnant while attending her private school, she would be required to withdraw from the school. Period. End of discussion. Nice knowing you. That is what we call a “consequence.”

I do not use iffy language like “mistakes” or “unfortuante”, etc. when discussing teen pregnancy. Getting pregnant is a stupid choice — or rather, it is the result of a long series of BAD choices: choosing to have sex when you are unable to deal with the consequences, then compounding the issue with not using birth control in a responsible manner. I use very blunt language in describing my feelings on the subject, and my children are very clear on where I stand on the subject: If you are stupid enough to get pregnant, you WILL be putting it up for adoption if you choose not to have an abortion, don’t look at me, because a) I’ve raised my family, and apparently didn’t do a very good job of it, and b) you have proven yourself too stupid to take care of yourself, let alone an infant.

By using P.C. language and avoiding placing the blame for the situation where it belongs — squarely on the young parents — we simply enable the behavior. WHY DO WE MAKE IT EASY FOR THESE KIDS TO SCREW UP?!?!?? What consequences are there to their behavior, these days? They get to continue their schooling as if nothing had happened, they get little, if any, societal disapproval, they get government aid when the “baby daddy” can’t/won’t choke up the money for diapers and food — sheesh, they even get friggin’ BABY SHOWERS!!! Most of these girls are looking for love in all the wrong places (which got them in this position in the first place), even from an infant. It’s pathetic. And the baby daddies get away with it over and over and over again.

I don’t believe in maternity leave for a teenage mother — I’ll give her some time to recover, but in an ideal world, she won’t have to worry about bonding with the baby, because the baby will have been adopted already. I frankly think she should withdraw completely from school at 6 months, complete the pregnancy, and then return to school when cleared by their doctor. Yeah, they might miss a year or have to repeat a year. That’s a consequence, and no, I don’t care if she loses a year of her education. IT WAS HER CHOICE. And HELL NO, no day-care in the school! A school is for education — it is not designed to fix the flaws of an entire society. Let’s let schools do their job of teaching, and stop expecting them to act in loco parentis for a generation of unparented, unsupervised and promiscuous teenagers. And hey, I’m very fair: I think we should go one step further and fine the baby daddy. I bet if they had to pay a $10,000 fine or spend six months in jail, they’d learn to use a condom! If the girl has to withdraw from school, then hey, why should the boy get to saunter around as if he was the c** of the walk? (and yes, PUN INTENDED).

Ask me again, and I’ll tell you what I REALLY think … !

By momtoAlex&Max

January 10, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Wow, DB. I wish I could put my thoughts together like you did. I agree with you 1000%.

By Martha

January 10, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

DB—We may be twins who were separated at birth. I love the way you think.

By f(x) = 36x^2

January 10, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

It is not a crime to be pregnant at 16. Therefore, very simply, there should be no “punishment” for being so.

We can probably all agree that teenage pregnancy is not adviseable for the future mother OR the future child, but as I have said, there is no CRIME involved.

Therefore, any suggestion that a pregnant mother should be punished fore being pregnant derives from personal moral and religious beliefs about sex.

Shame on all of you for attempting to insert your personal religious beliefs into law. Shame on all of you for trying to punish young women who already have more to worry about that you can imagine. Shame on all of you for your sanctimonious morality that would see both the expectant mother and the child punished for their entire lives because you disapprove of their lives.

I am repulsed to read the garbage that has been posted on this blog. You self-righteous idiots would subject both mother and child to years of welfare, degradation and failure because of your own moral position.

Christ would WEEP to read the hatred and venom that you people have directed towards teenage mothers and their offspring on this blog. May God have mercy on your souls, because I certainly can’t.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Well said DB. I agree wholeheartedly.

By f(x) = 36x^2

January 10, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

And DB - while pretty little white kids get snapped up by adoption agencies, little DARKIE children are generally ignored and left to ROT in foster care.

I’m SO happy to know that you aren’t in fact, a sanctimonious moron who doesn’t have a compassionate bone in your entire body, but really care about pregnant teens and their children.

God save me from hateful idiots.

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Who said anything about not adopting the “darkies”? Talk about stirring the pot. Look…like it or not statistically it is minority youth getting pregnant the most. Thats not a racial comment by any stretch of the imagination. Its factual. Adoption is a viable option. Abortion is even a viable optional for those not opposed to it. But I think the most effecticve solution is to educate young people that getting pregnant is not a status symbol….it is not cool to tramp yourself out…it is not cool to put your life at risk…it is not cool to bring a life into this world you are ill prepared to care for…and its not cool to keep that child for issues of pride.

By f(x) = 36x^2

January 10, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Jessie’s Moron,

White children get adopted. African-American children and Hispanic children do not. Look it up.

While you are apparently living in a fantasy world where teenagers don’t get pregnant, I’m living in the real world where they do. And in the REAL WORLD, children of color are not adopted.

I want kids of all races to have good homes. Do you?

By Jesse's Girl

January 10, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

While your apparent need to feel superior by name calling is cute as it can be….really…I actually do agree with you. White or light skinned children are more desirable for adoption. But that is really because most of the people doing the adopting are white couples. Thats not to say that minority couples do not adopt..they do. HOWEVER…why is it that the vast majority of foster home children are black or of other color? Its because young people are not being taught that a condom is their friend…or the pill…or for the love of God….even pulling out is better than nothing! Yes dear one…I too live in the real world. I live and work in a world that in Atlanta is geared toward the young black person. And I see those young black girls dancing at the CD parties and they are clearly with child. I see them dressing like sleeze but when I speak to them they have hearts of gold…they deserve better. They don’t deserve these boys that knock em up because “men don’t wear rubber” How pretencious and silly of you to assume you are the only who knows anything about this subject. Education is key…period.

By CurriculumDirector

January 11, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Jeff, For a 12 yo sexually active girl, that is EXACTLY what she thinks

Are you a 12 year-old girl? If not, I don’t think you have a clue what they are thinking. And sorry, I don’t believe your VAST experience teaching - less than two complete years, right? - makes you an expert on 12 year olds.

Also, you seem to have some major misinformation on what is taught in a sex education class. Sex education is not supposed to be a lesson in morality! It is supposed to be information on how the body works.

First, in most systems, sex ed. is simply a PART of a health class. Look at the state curriculum. Also, by state school board rules, all sex education materials and curriculum have to be discussed and approved by a panel of parents and community members. Any idea how many folks showed up to look at the materials when the opportunity was offered in my school? Three!

Parents have the option to remove their children from the Sex Education segments - by law. If you don’t want your child (when you have one) hearing the anatomy and reproductive lessons, you can opt out. Many parent prefer their children get this information at school - they can still teach morals at home.

I taught Health to middle grades students for many years. When students asked questions that were not on the “approved” topic list, I call their parents. Nine times out of ten, the parents gave me permission to talk to their child rather than them taking on the responsbility. Sometimes it is because they are not comfortable. Many times is it because they don’t know - just because you drive a car doesn’t mean you know how it works!

AND…just so you know. Comparative Religions is an approved and funded course in Ga. You can confirm this by checking the DOE website.

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Curriculum Director:

In case you didn’t know, let me refresh your memory:

I’m the ONE person on here (HIGHLY unlikely there are others, but it IS possible) that has been associated with both the best and brightest this country has to offer as well as the lowest of the lows that very few want to touch.

I’ve been in the International Baccaleaurate program, and I’ve been in an alternative school. I’ve worked with millionaires (in some cases in their 20s) and I’ve worked with homeless people that LITERALLY don’t have a penny to their name.

I’ve worked in some of the ‘best’ areas - white and rich - and I’ve worked in some of the ‘worst’ areas - black and poor.

I’ve lived and worked in all three population density zones - urban, suburban, rural - and I’ve lived and worked in each of GA’s three latitudinal regions (North GA, Central GA, South GA).

I’ve worked at heights as high as the National level, where I influenced events occurring around the country, and I’ve worked at levels so low I didn’t even have control of myself.

Fortunately, I haven’t experienced ALL the evil this world has to offer, but I’ve fought through enough of it that I can relate to virtually anyone, and before my life is over I’m quite sure that I’ll have to deal with some of the things I haven’t yet had to deal with.

When I say I know what a typical person in a given situation is thinking, it is because I’ve either been there directly or because I’ve worked closely with someone who has. RARELY do I make a generalization without having at least one real-world encounter to base it on.

And I reiterate my primary points:

A) It is NOT the GOVERNMENT’s job to teach students about either sex or religion. It is the PARENT’s.

B) It is NOT the GOVERNMENT’s job to protect us from ourselves.

and

C) Just because a parent is a bad parent does NOT mean the GOVERNMENT should step in.

By Monica

January 11, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

f(x), well said.

By fk

January 11, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the schools should make exceptions to the rules for preganant teenagers. If the mother and father take time off for the birth & bonding, and it is not an approved absence, they have to make it up. If it takes another year, then so be it. College, if it ever happens, will be put off for years, as will any immediate plans. That’s life. Do not discourage these young parents from returning to school to get an education, though.

Teenagers are still kids. And, adults judging kids because they’ve made bad choices sounds ridiculous. Help them to stop making these bad choices. Obviously, they need guidance, not judgment. Yes, she made a bad choice. Yes, she’s facing major consequences. She’s got a long road ahead, and probably a lonely one.

Adoption is an option, I agree. Might it be the best course for both mother and child? Sure. It is the biggest gesture of love and the most selfless act by a mother, to put a child up for adoption, just so that the child can have a better life. However, you cannot force a mother to give away a child.

Remember, it is not the fault of the infant. Did this baby ask to be born, make this choice to have teenage parents? If the only good care available is subsidized, would you not rather see that than find an dead infant in a gym bag?

By CurriculumDirector

January 11, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Oh my!

Jeff, Do you really believe this??? I’m the ONE person on here (HIGHLY unlikely there are others, but it IS possible) that has been associated with both the best and brightest this country has to offer as well as the lowest of the lows that very few want to touch -

Based on the validity - or lack thereof - of this statement, you support my statement about your lack of knowledge. I would wager that there are several people on here who have much more knowledge, experience, and expertise than you. How do you know that you are the ONLY one with such experience? What arrogance!

It is not worth the battle with you. Got to run…working on a presentation for an international conference on adolescent learners (invited speaker).

By Jesse's Girl

January 11, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Ok Jeff….how do you propse we, as a community, approach the issue of sexual education for our young people? Keeping in mind that leaving it up to the parents is not an option. Most parents do not take on this responsibility. Given that….what would be your plan of action? Would it still be to do nothing?

By Jesse's Girl

January 11, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

That is a valid question Jeff….how did you acquire your experience and expertise in 2 years? If my time line is wrong, I apologize. I do remember you quoting something close to that.

By Eric B.

January 11, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Jeff is making up stories again.

A happily married, devoted husband to some imaginary “T.” Finds time to post leading up to his wedding and right after the honeymoon.

Yeah, right.

More?

“I’m the ONE person on here (HIGHLY unlikely there are others, but it IS possible) that has been associated with both the best and brightest this country has to offer as well as the lowest of the lows that very few want to touch.”

LOL!!! Riiiiight. But it gets better:

“I’ve worked at heights as high as the National level, where I influenced events occurring around the country, and I’ve worked at levels so low I didn’t even have control of myself.”

What a joke.

Jeff you are a TROLL and a TOOL.

By FCM

January 11, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

DB—I can agree with many of your points (especially adoption). I don’t know that we need to ‘fine’ the Daddy…just identify him and make him pay child support (though JJ & I can attest that child support doesn’t always happen).

fx—what would it take (other than state/federal assitance) to help these kids? Are their parents just not involved….ok so if we go with your premise that its African American/Hispanic teens primarily at risk is it because it has become part of the culture (which is what media DOES make it out to look like).

What is so different about Asian/Indian teens that have high scholastic achievement records and low pregnancy rates? It may be that their parents tend to be more involved in their lives, they tend to not date until much later, they tend to have 2 active parents…..How about a big shift back to what a ‘family unit’ is….despite my own family being a single parent household, I am well aware that a better ‘family unit’ would be a 2 parent household. Fortunately I have brothers, friends, and parents who are very willing to bridge (not fill) the gap that an absentee father provides. (Also, not all single parent households are by design—ie teen pregnancy or divorce—-some are by nature—ie death).

How is asking the Mom to withdraw from school, or utilize other methods of schooling (homeschool, online, alternative school) punishing her?

Most of the backlash—you aren’t compassionate—talk seems to think that the majority of the blog wants to kick the teens out of school…that is not true. They very much want to educate them both before they become parents and after…However there are no ‘free rides’ and if you have to make up a year/a month or whatever so be it.

I looked at the FMLA policy in my company’s handbook. Yes I can get 12 weeks off for having/adopting a child. However when I come back to work, my ‘start date’ is going to be ‘adjusted’ which effects my seniority, my bonus, my raise, my ablity to be hired into another dept, etc. There are CONSEQUENCES to me (an ADULT) getting pregnant w/regard to my being out.

What exactly do these girls want? To go home and bond and then come back as if they never left? To be excused from the work?

I have posted both my school’s local absentee policy and the policy of the Denver Public Schools (where the question is being raised)….BOTH of these provide for extended absence when under medical care. Are these teen mothers not having prenatal/post partum care? That is HORRIBLE but that is a different issue.

My stance is not that we should lack compassion, shun the mother, shun the child. My stance is that there is no need for ‘special’ treatment of a pregnant mom—and singling out any group always creates both a desire to be in that group and animosity of those that are summarily excluded (probably males in this case).

The girl raising the question is 5 months pregnant and a senior…she wants to walk with her class but will give birth in April. That means during exams/prom etc she will be out…what she is looking for is a free pass to graduate whether she does the work or not….

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Curriculum:

In the direct ways that I have, yes, I doubt that there are many like me. The VAST majority of people do not go from expelled student in an alternative school to Regional leader of a National organization who serves on said national organization’s leadership team in 3 years.

I did.

JG:

As far as my experience: Most of it happened between 1999 and 2007. My life was one HECK of a rollercoaster for those 8 years! At Columbine in 1999, I was a student in one particular high school. Within 4 weeks of Columbine I was notified that I would be appearing at a disciplinary tribunal at the end of summer. That tribunal placed me in the alternative school for 6 months, but I asked for a year and my request was granted. At the end of that first 6 months is where the roller coaster started going up. I started at KSU. There, I spent a year in (relative) anonymity. I was known in my department, more because I was a student assistant and my mom was the main secretary than anything else. During my second year there (2001), I became the lead programming 1 tutor and most found that I was one of the best programmers they had ever seen - AND I could teach others how to program as good as me. Also during that year, I joined the KSU chapter of the national organization. By year’s end, I was already a chapter officer. During my third year at Kennesaw, I started working at the national level of the organization, taking part in one of its service oriented Spring Break trips. I also rose from my lower-level officer role to Vice President and then President of the local chapter. During my fourth year at Kennesaw, things were coming to fruition. I taught at a summer camp at Emory teaching mostly private school kids. At the same time, I rose to the national leadership level of the organization I had been working for at KSU - while still being the local KSU President. Then, everything began to crash again. I had a computer job offer, but decided I wanted to teach. So I worked on a Math Ed degree in addition to the CompSci degree I had already finished the requirements for. By the end of that year (2004) I had my first F EVER. It would be a sign of what was to come in my Year of Failure (2005). In 2005, I achieved what was the first in my family - I graduated from college. But I also spent 6 months without a job of any kind, and the 6 months I had a job was minimum wage. (Literally, I worked at McDonald’s and for a gas station.) That year broke me in so many ways. But it broke me in the most important ways. Because in 2006, the road back up would begin, but it would be bumpy. I got a teaching job and left it for another one. In the process of getting the other one, I finally moved out of my parents’ house. At the second teaching job, my very sanity would be pushed to the limits. But it led me exactly where I needed to be for 2007 to happen. 2007 was full upswing, after bottoming out early in the year. I went back to programming and in the process met a woman I call ‘T’ here on the boards. We began dating, became engaged, and by the end of the year we were married. And that is the state that 2008 finds me in.

That story doesn’t even include the crap I went through as a kid, which included a LOT of other experiences that I don’t talk about much anymore but still gave me many insights into varios types of people - some of whom I became, some who I wanted to be, and some who I struggled against.

Back on topic (and I apologize for the length of this post, but you DID ask!):

FINALLY someone asks the right question. PARENTS should do it but don’t. GOVERNMENT should not do it but does. Who then should do it in the abscence of the parents?

Ideally, responsibility goes from parents to other family members to close friends to the community at large. NOT the Government, but the community itself.

By Jesse's Girl

January 11, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

How the hell do you find the time to post…lengthy posts at that…everyday? The only reason I’ve been here steady on for 2 days is because I have the stinkin’ flu and my voice is shot. I’m bored…no offense Theresa. But you Jeff….its everyday doggone day. I’m not sure what gives with you. You’re odd. I await your dissertation.

By nurse&mother

January 11, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Wow! Lots of posts. I have mixed feelings on this one. I certainly don’t mean to come across as holier than thou, but I’m sure it will anyway. Here goes:

Before I get started, I want to say that there is a difference in teen girls who have an “oops-I got caught” and those teen girls who are actively looking to get pregnant. When I did my clinicals in OB at Grady in 1995, I saw many teen girls who were 16 or 17 and on baby #2. I was astonished to see a few who were 21 and on their 5th baby!!! Wow what an eye opener. That is not an oops, that is a way of life for them. I think that is what TEE was refering to in her post.

While many girls would not be interested in completing their hs education, much less furthering it, those girls that ARE interesting in completing need to be given the chance. Those teen moms are the ones who need the education the most (although I suspect those interested in staying in school are in the minority). I’m not sure what is wrong with the homebound program? Girl can stay at home for 6 weeks and still bond with her baby while keeping up with the class.

I would like to make a point that as an L&D nurse, a C-section takes a lot of recuperation unlike a vag delivery. I think that the homebound program would still be appropriate.

As to the poster who said that children of color are not readily adopted as white children are, I think that trend is turning around. The stigma seems to be fading to have the all white family. I personally know several U.S. latino and black babies that were adopted by white parents. There are a lot of overseas adoptions in which white parents are adopting children from around the world. I also personally know about 8 families in my hometown that have adopted little girls from China.

I think it makes a difference if these children are put up for adoption while they are babies and not school age. I suspect that there are more older children and not babies that are placed for adoption in the U.S. therefore skewing your data. I’m willing to bet that you get the low life parents that abuse and neglect their children therefore DFACS takes them away and they eventaully lose their parental rights and thus these children become wardens of the state and are eligible for adoption. It is much more difficult to place these children in adoptive homes. That is a fact, although that doesn’t make it right.

DB, for the most part I agree with you.

Jeff, sometimes it gets old listening to how you are an expert on just about everything. No offense.

One last thing- Teaching abstinence doesn’t work. Obviously. I’m not saying that necessarily teaching birth control will. I do think you will have better results if you teach the need for birth control and ways to prevent STD’s.

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Testing programs…. one tiny change, extensive testing…. repeat. Fortunately/ unfortunately, the testing is largely automated.

BTW: Don’t ask me questions that require lengthy explanations! :P (I say that half jokingly… tend to explain FAR too much!)

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

nurse:

I do apologize. One of the bad consequences of having such a thirst for knowledge and the ability to retain said knowledge FAR longer than I should! Though I AM beginning to look into ways to DECREASE the amount of knowledge I have stored. Maybe if I can uncover that I will become more ‘socially acceptable’.

By Jesse's Girl

January 11, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

smoke a joint

By nurse&mother

January 11, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

I would like to say that there are exceptions to the FMLA. Someone stated that all work places have to grant you maternity leave. Not necessarily true. I work part time. I was told that because I didn’t work x number of hours in one year prior to my leave that I was only granted two weeks. AFter that I could either chose to resign or be terminated. Never mind that I had worked 5 1/2 years at the hospital as either full or part time. After the 5.5 years, I still worked in the hospital’s float pool. I came back officially as part time about 6 months before I delivered. I chose to resign and my letter stated that I was resigning in lieu of termination. I also stated that I was resigning with the expectation that I would be rehired as promised by my manager and department director (which I was). Although I was rehired into the same position, I lost 6 years of seniority and the paid time off accumulation factor was greatly diminished.

By nurse&mother

January 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Jeff- should we all bow down to you?? Now I KNOW my opinion was right on target.

I don’t have a problem with intelligent people or someone with a thirst for knowledge. I DO have a problem with someone who is arrogant. It has been my experience that those who have to toot their own horn usually are not what they are cracked up to be.

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

nurse:

In the real world, my resume speaks for itself. You RARELY hear me mention my background.

Online, people don’t know who I am. So I have to tell them.

By FCM

January 11, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

nurse & mother—I used FMLA as a comparison….although I did not go into the various nuances of who it does/doesn’t apply too. When I had my first I was fortunate that they were willing to hold my position, because due to the low number of employees in any one area we did not meet FMLA regulations.

For my comparison purposes I would like to point out that schools (generally) have the population that an FMLA type structure would apply….although (hopefully) I pointed out that due to the attendance policies of the school district in question….a FMLA/Maternity Leave ruling would be unnecessary.

By nurse&mother

January 11, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I think we have all met or worked with people who have always had the exact same experience, situation no matter what the scenario is. Those people are always the “expert”. They think they always no more than anyone else. After awhile, you learn to tune those folks out. Just like Jeff. I rarely read his posts anymore for this very reason.

By Monica

January 11, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

So, as far at the intent of the topic, I think there is confusion about terminology. FCM, you are correct that “maternity leave” is not necessary in GA because of the Hospital/Homebound program. I think this girl in Denver simply wants her absences to be considered excused. If she keeps up with her studies, I see no need to keep her from walking at graduation with her class.

The excused versus unexcused absence used to be a crucial point in the state of Georgia. Unexcused absences “technically” mean that the student is not allowed to make up work missed. However, it has turned into, “Teachers don’t necessarily have to allow a student to make up the work, but they are highly encouraged to do so.” Many of you might not know that if a student is suspended from school, it is now counted as an excused absence, and the student must be afforded the opportunity to make up any work, which basically equates to a paid leave time. The teacher is the one punished when the student returns to school, as he or she must stay after with said student to allow him time to make up assignments.

I don’t think that any pregnant teen is asking to be exempt from the work she misses; just that her absences be excused and that she be allowed the opportunity to make up the work.

Nurse&Mother, my husband worked at Grady for a while, and I have heard your baby stories from him as well. I do think that the girls you saw are the ones who would drop out of school anyway. However, all teen moms at least deserve the opportunity to stay on track.

By Jesse's Girl

January 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Y’all…how can we be so crude? Worrying about such things when a horrible truth has come to light???!!! Mylie Cyrus/Hannah Montanna uses a body double!!!! And I thought I was the only one:) I thought we needed a little levity. Have a good weekend folks. I’m heading to the doc for what I hope are some dern good drugs. I feel like poop.

By FCM

January 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

Monica, In Denver there is an excused absence policy that requires the parent of the student and the principal to agree to it and it meets the qualification of being an illness, injury, or physical, emotional, mental disability.

This leads me back to what is that she really wants?

I agree, if the work is completed (she could do some early, take the finals early etc or in college I knew a few whos grades/work were enough they were ‘exempt from finals’—but has to turn in the term papers etc)she should be allowed to walk with her class.

However, watching this last night, it seemed like she wanted to be exempt from all of that (term papers/exams) because she was on ‘leave’ and still be considered eligible for her diploma……

What it really comes down to is what exactly is Maternity Leave….and what is it the students hope to gain from it…..simply adding Pregnancy to the definition of excused absence should work if that is all she wants.

By DB

January 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

F(x), we are obviously not going to agree on this subject, but I’ll be darned if I’m going to let you put words in my mouth — I am quite capable of speaking for myself.

It is not a crime to be pregnant at 16. Therefore, very simply, there should be no “punishment” for being so.

Who advocated punishment? Not I. I simply observed that teenage pregnancy was a result of a series of bad choices. Consequences are NOT punishment. Consequences are what everyone in life has to deal with when they screw up. If I don’t pay my electric bill, my power gets turned off. It’s not a punishment - it’s a consequence. If a girl gets pregnant, then, in my book, she misses school and has to make it up later. It’s not a punishment, it’s a consequence. Life is full of choices, and no one is encouraging these girls to make GOOD ones.

(OK, I got a little carried away with fining and dumping the baby daddy’s azz in jail — but it is absolutely unfair that the girl has to carry the entire burden of the consequences, when it takes two. If you can come up with some other consequence for the boy, then have at it.

Shame on all of you for attempting to insert your personal religious beliefs into law.

Umm, f(x), where do you think laws come from? They come from personal beliefs of people who are in a position to express those beliefs and convince a majority of people that those beliefs are sound and should be a basis for our behavior. We all agree and believe that teen pregnancy is not optimum. What is wrong with doing everything possible to discourage it?

Shame on all of you for trying to punish young women who already have more to worry about that you can imagine. Shame on all of you for your sanctimonious morality that would see both the expectant mother and the child punished for their entire lives because you disapprove of their lives.

You have no idea what I disapprove of. Yes, I disapprove of teen pregnancy. Even more, I abhore the complete lack of self-respect these young women have, that they think that they are only defined by the sexual attention of a man, and they have absolutely no expectation for anything better in life. THAT, to me, is the real tragedy. I am angered by the way we, as a society, sit back and let these girls ruin their lives and the lives of their babies. We have created an entire socio-economic sub-culture of children having children, and 30 year old grandmothers who lack the skills and training to be more than marginally productive members of society. What could POSSIBLY be socially beneficial in that? And why is disgust at such a thing a religious experience?

They end up in such a sub-culture because they throw over priority for education and a stable family home in favor of “keeping the child” and having someone that “loves them” and “belongs to them” unconditionally. They have been brainwashed into thinking that “good mothers keep their children”, without anyone defining what a “good mother” really is.

Someone earlier comments that once is a mistake, five times is a life-style. I’d agree with that, wholeheartedly. I will go so far as to say it is a lifestyle that should be discouraged and worked to eliminate, not enabled with government funding.

If that’s a value judgement — then so be it.

By Monica

January 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

FCM, I didn’t see this on television; I was just going on the article that Theresa’s link took us to. According to that article, absences after childbirth are unexcused: School-board member Michelle Moss was baffled that schools were giving girls unexcused absences after birth. The pediatrician who made a statement at the hearing alluded to the fact that they are responsible for school work: “To just assume that two days after having a baby they can go back to school is ridiculous at best,” Grope said. “During that time, they should be able to do their schoolwork and give time to bond with their children.”

If the girl wants to be excused from work, I do have a problem with that, but the article mentions nothing of that sort. What did the television segment suggest?

By Monica

January 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

DB, in your last post, you stated, If a girl gets pregnant, then, in my book, she misses school and has to make it up later. It’s not a punishment, it’s a consequence. Life is full of choices, and no one is encouraging these girls to make GOOD ones.

In the same post, you also stated, They end up in such a sub-culture because they throw over priority for education and a stable family home in favor of “keeping the child.”

You say that they should take education out of their top priorities as a consequence of making a bad choice, yet you condemn them for not having education as a priority.

Even more, I abhore the complete lack of self-respect these young women have, that they think that they are only defined by the sexual attention of a man, and they have absolutely no expectation for anything better in life.

Which young women are you referring to? Do you realize that even good Christian girls with lots of self-respect also get pregnant?

Who are you to say that giving up the baby for adoption is the best option? Ask a child who was given up if he or she feels that love from the ultimate selfless deed by the birth mother. Sometimes, having a baby is the best thing to happen to a girl because it allows her family to bond more with each other. That’s a decision for each girl and her family to make. I pray that your daughter never gets pregnant, but not for the same reasons that you have that prayer.

By CurriculumDirector

January 11, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

*By Jeff Curriculum:

In the direct ways that I have, yes, I doubt that there are many like me.*

I certainly agree and thank God for the truth of this statement. However, this is not the statement you made earlier.

Jeff, just a word of advice from someone older and wiser…find a bit of humility. You may be a genius. You many have more experience than all the readers of the AJC combined (Please recognize the sarcasm for what it is!). But never assume that you are past the point of being able to listen to the wisdom of others and learn something. Generalizations are dangerous, especially if you base them on a one time action or reaction. I will stick to my statement…unless you have been a 12 year old girl who is sexually active, you don’t know what they are thinking.

A comment to real topic…It would be nice if all parents were well educated and responsible. But we don’t live in that world. It is my responsibility as an educator - shoot, as a human being - to help students learn as much as they can.

If a teenage girl is pregnant - because of lack of knowledge about contraceptives, contraceptives that didn’t work, or just plain stupidity, we don’t need to compound the problem by refusing an education. Should she get credit for work she doesn’t do? Of course not. Should she have the opportunity to make up missed work or have homebound instruction? Absolutely. We do the same for any medical situation.

We can’t be judge and jury for the moral issues; we have to remember that both the mother and the child (and the father) deserves a chance at a future.

By FCM

January 11, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Monica, that was the problem. The girl was unclear what she was really trying to get….it did seem she wanted to be out ‘excused’ and then allowed to be back for graduation. It was unclear if she expected she would need to sit exams etc.

The one problem that I see is that school board leaves it up to each Principal to decide if an absence is excused or not….also Doctor appointments (which are usually excused in the Atlanta metro area) are not listed as excused/unexcused. I would agree that the district should probably look at a more uniformed approach to excused absences. I would also agree that ANY absence over 3 days require a doctor note to return to school and allow the absence to be excused (work made up) would be a good approach. It may be that some Principals do not view Pregnancy as an illness or disability….however, that would just be a matter of educating the educators wouldn’t it?

I will say that all it would take is one girl going back with in a day or 2 of delivery and hemorraging on the floor to make them change mind on definitions if the later is the case…..I very much pray that it NEVER comes to that. (At the risk of seeming like I have everything happen to me, I did start bleeding because I decided to paint and do laundry the week after my first delivery….my mother nearly killed me when she found out).

By FCM

January 11, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

This was in the Denver Post’s OP-ED (1/10/08):

*Denver’s alternative school for seventh to 12th grade girls who are pregnant or are new mothers, Florence Crittenton School, is full and has a waiting list. Given the amount of empty classroom space in DPS, we wonder whether it’s possible to use some of the district’s surplus space to meet this need.

Superintendent Michael Bennet has asked administrators to look at DPS policies and practices regarding student absences for new mothers. His spokesman said the goal is to devise a policy that spells out how each school should handle such absences.*

Apparently the real issue is that what is an ‘excused’ absence is at school A may or may not be at school B since it is left to Principal discretion (at the moment)….So while ‘maternity leave’ maybe what got the talk going…what is actually being looked at is a more uniform standard in the district….THAT I CAN WHOLE HEARTEDLY SUPPORT. I also like the idea of using ‘empty classroom space’—-but hope they consider implementing a parenting class (like one mentioned yesterday) where they carry a doll around for a semester, on dates, to the store, etc and have to be the ‘parent to it….and they encourage the class (in 6th grade if necessary) to help deter the kids from getting in the situation in the first place (the stat sited for the number of pregnancies in the district was so high I have a hard time believing ‘safe sex’ was practiced).

By nurse&mother

January 11, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Monica I am adopted and I certainly respect my biological mother for not aborting me in some back alley. I have never met her, but I feel that she loved me enough to make sure I had a good home with two loving, married parents that could provide for me. So yes, indirectly, I feel her love. I know I can’t speak for everyone and I’ll agree I am no expert, but I certainly have first hand knowledge on the subject of adoption. IMHO, it is important for children to grow up in a loving, stable home where parents can afford to put food on the table. Once again, IMHO, if one cannot do this, one should truly consider what is best for that child and not what is best for the momma.

I have a lot of respect for my birth mother. I’m sure it was a difficult decision (One that she put a lot of thought into). I wish that she knew how much I appreciate her for giving me the chance at a better life. She realized that she was not prepared to be a mother at such a young age and made that sacrifice. Talk about maturity!!!!

By DB

January 11, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Monica, the blog asked for opinions. I gave mine. Who am I to say? I am a woman, a mother, a wife, a worker, a friend, a daughter … the list goes on. If you don’t like my opinion, you are certainly welcome to refute it or, preferably, debate it, but you cannot tell me that I am have no right to it. It is my opinion that a baby is, in the long run, better off being adopted by a loving mother and father than being raised in what often becomes a substandard level of educational choices and living. It is my opinion that most babies born out of wedlock are kept from purely selfish reasons: because the girls are under so much peer pressure to “keep their/our baby — how can you possibly give it away!”, because they long for someone that belongs totally to them, and because they think it will be “fun” and a way to tie the father to them (ha!). They can’t work a job that provides enough money to support themselves, much less a baby, the father probably can’t, either, their education is disrupted and often curtailed, and we, as a society, seem to think that is just fine.

We’ll have to debate the self-respect issue some other time. I, personally, don’t see how anyone who respects their body, their health and their future would put themselves at risk like that. Christian, Jewish, Hindu — whatever religion you want to drag into it (not that I do — I don’t see the point.) Forget pregnancy for a bit — sexual behavior also opens up avenues for HIV and STDs.

And I don’t have a problem with them completing their education — but if you take time off to have a baby (and you should, health-wise), then you’re going to have to figure out how to make it up by taking the initiative to complete work at home, or with a “do over”. You don’t get a free pass just because you can’t keep your knees shut.

You asked an interesting question: Ask a child who was given up if he or she feels that love from the ultimate selfless deed by the birth mother. I would say that had as many answers as there were adopted children. Might be an interesting study. Any adoptees want to chime in on this?

Most adoptions are placed by older, more mature girls, 18 and over, who cite the “best interests of the baby” as their primary reason for placing a child for adoption. In teenage adoptions, almost 60% of the girls originally plan for adoption, but 1/3 of them are heavily influenced by the birth father to keep the baby. (Easy for him to say!)

There’s so many, many factors that play into these decisions; unfortunately, the best interests of the baby seem to come in second to the needs and wants of the teenage mother, who has (again, IMHO) already shown a lack of judgement.

By motherjanegoose

January 14, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this

I spoke at a conference somewhere, a few years ago and was informed of this district option. If you are pregnant a leave school to have the baby a recuperate ( sp?) you return to the pods. There are two…one houses the children and you learn child development skills and rotate caring for the infants and toddlers and owrking on schooling. The other is academic and you finish your schooling or learn a trade such as a hairdresser, dental assistant, accounting etc. You stay until you have the skills to get a job and care for your child. I thought this was clever. This way, we do not turn out children caring for children and also they will employable.

By Jane Post

January 14, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

My daughter is 15 and about to have her baby in less than a week. When we found out she was pregnant we started asking questions about how she would continue in school while she was out of school for maturnity leave. I started trying to get some alternative education for her . Neither the School Board or the School she attended were any help. They acted like they had never dealt with a pregnant teen who wanted to stay in school and not get behind in her work. I don’t think it is fair to ignore this situation or Deny these girls the opportunity to try to get an education. My daughter knows that it was wrong and irresponsible to get pregnant at such an early age. She has matured so much. She realizes that without a good education it will be hard to take care of a baby. Just because she made a bad decision Doesn’t mean the world should give up on her. How can The school system not have anything in place for this kind of situation. I don’t want to go to jail, but I also refuse to make my child go to school a few days after she has the baby. I tried to get her into the home bound program. this program will provide a teacher a teacher who comes to our house and and helps keep her caught up. They refuse to let my dauther utilize this service because she is pregnant even though she has a doctors excuse saying she cannot attend school for six to eight weeks. They are refusing my child an education because she is pregnant. And want to penalize me because she can’t go to school.

By Jesse's Girl

January 14, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

I am sorry for the issue you and your daughter are facing. However…it is not the school’s responsibility to accomodate this need. I commend your daughter on realizing the importance of an education and the irresponsibility of allowing her situation to happen. But she needs to disenroll and come back when she is healthy and childcare can be agreed upon. Perhaps her GED at a young age would be good for her. She could get a head start on college and be that much more prepared for the journey ahead as she discovers what it takes to be a mother. AND THE FATHER SHOULD BE MADE TO HELP!!!!!

By motherjanegoose

January 14, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Curriculum Director…. Thanks for your comment about Jeff. He really got under my skin last week ( perhaps his sole intention…he succeeded) and I am wondering why he acts like such a pompous @#$ when he is younger and illogical. Of course, he has a level of expertise, as we all do but NO ONE can know everything! I was in St Louis and chatting about his comments to me last week. The Kinder teachers there ( who signed up to hear me speak) told me…” he has no kids…he has no clue.” I have not walked in these moccasins.

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January 15, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

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By Teacher, Too

January 17, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

I was adopted at birth. I thank God every day that my birth mother was unselfish enough to put me up for adoption. That is love. I am most grateful for my parents. I was fortunate to be placed with two amazing, loving people who were unable to have their own children.

I don’t understand why these girls decide to keep their babies when they don’t have the maturity or means to take care of an infant. They have their entire adult lives to have children, when they have finished their education and have the means to support a baby.

I know that’s a rather limited viewpoint, and I’m sure that many people will disagree with me, but as one who was adopted, I thank God that my birth mother was unselfish enough to see that she couldn’t provide a decent life for me. That is the greatest act of love.

By nurse&mother

January 17, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Amen Teacher too! My sentiments exactly. Been there too.

By B

January 17, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

@Steveo- I can understand your point on teaching teens how to protect themselves if they found themselves in that situation, because that is part of the problem, society is so busy screaming abstinence that they don’t nothing about protecting themselves; however our main concern does need to focus on them not having sex before marriage in the first place.

@Jeff- Kudos, what you were describing in known as operant conditioning in the realm of psychology. B.F. Skinner said best as did you, if you reward a behavior the more likely it is to happen again again again and again…HINT stop rewarding this behavior and try some behavior modification. This is what changes behavior not rewarding it.

@zynhova- Your mother-in-law is rare case. Not too many teens in todays generation wanna pick themselves up and do better, they would rather just stay down because its easier than trying to get up. There should be more individuals with the attitude, courage, and determination your mother-in-law had.

@Monkey Lover- ARE YOU SERIOUS???

By B

January 17, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

@Steveo- I can understand your point on teaching teens how to protect themselves if they found themselves in that situation, because that is part of the problem, society is so busy screaming abstinence that they don’t nothing about protecting themselves; however our main concern does need to focus on them not having sex before marriage in the first place.

@Jeff- Kudos, what you were describing in known as operant conditioning in the realm of psychology. B.F. Skinner said best as did you, if you reward a behavior the more likely it is to happen again again again and again…HINT stop rewarding this behavior and try some behavior modification. This is what changes behavior not rewarding it.

@zynhova- Your mother-in-law is rare case. Not too many teens in todays generation wanna pick themselves up and do better, they would rather just stay down because its easier than trying to get up. There should be more individuals with the attitude, courage, and determination your mother-in-law had.

@Monkey Lover- ARE YOU SERIOUS???, thats just plain ridiculous, everyone makes mistakes, so a innocent child should parish because of a mistake…I don’t think so! You don’t know what that child may turn out to be. That’s just like saying every child from the ghetto is loud and ally, and all they know is the ghetto and that’s where they are going to stay. NOT TRUE.!!

If parents, pastors, mentors, whoever is willing to take a stand and teach children that sex is for marriage and why its for marriage ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE then we wouldn’t have these problems. Sometimes you have to scar the living HELL out of people for them to understand. I know we all make mistakes and for you christians out there we all fall short, a just man falls 70 times but guess what you can always get back up. No one is taking the time to tell children why they can’t do this or why they can’t do that and that’s the problem. Children need statistics and back-up. There are plenty of stats out there of people dying from HIV and AIDS,people walking around with Herpes, and the BIBLE gives plenty of back up. It clearly states the bed is defiled if you are not married and w******* and fonicators will burn.

By the way I work for Peach Care and Medicade for the state of GA and believe me it’s not these teen parents that tax payers are paying for it’s these grown adults, whom some of which are just too plain lazy to get off there behinds and get a job.

Peace and Blessings

By nurse&mother

January 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

While I agree that abstinence is a great idea, we should also teach teens how to protect themselves. Teens will continue to have sex no matter what. I’m sure no one out there has ever gotten caught up in the moment (whether you were a teen or an adult).

I will certainly teach my children that sex is for marriage. I will also talk to them about using condoms AND another form of birth control.

By CurriculumDirector

January 17, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

MotherJaneGoose, No problem. After reading his comments on a couple of blogs, I just felt the need to point out his lack of experience. I’ve been reading his opinions for some time now and, like you, had just had enough.

You are an educational consultant? I can’t help but wonder if we have met. I will start listening for other consultants who mention the AJC blogs!

Have a good day.

By ClassyLady

January 21, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

I do not agree with alot thats being said here. I’m a senior in virginia and yes I am pregnant. Before I became pregnant I was an honor student actually top 50 in my class. I live with both of my parents who are married. No, we’re not on welfare, and no we do not stay out the projects. I used protection and still ended up pregnant. I was on birth control and still ended up pregnant. What you people don’t understand is that none of these methods are 100% effective. Its said that I’ll probably end up on welfare but I doubt that. I’m proud that we in VA have an alternative school for pregnant girls. No, we do not get 4 weeks but we get 2 for regular and 3 for c section. I’m still graduating at the top of my class and I am still going to college in the spring. I have a supportive family and a supportive fiance. Just because you make a mistake does not mean you have to stay down. Every body makes mistakes regardless. You people are talking like yall won’t having sex young. No it might not of caught you but it just might catch your daughter, sister, or maybe even granddaughter. Then what you gonna have to say then. I respect how some of you bloggers are standing up for the girls. We’re human and have rights to. Whats the difference between a high school girl(with a job) and a middle age woman’s maternity leave?what age? To be forreal you say society should make it bad but isn’t that already true. They frown their faces up at you when they see you and you all have your issues too. Why do you have to look at mines? But to be real with all of you teenage pregnancy is nothing new. Its been going on since the world started and its not gonna stop. Yall don’t even think that the reason of the pregnancy is rape, incest, etc. you just think YOUR way. ONe SIded. STep in somebody elses shoes and shut up. Being Pregnant was the last thing on my mind.

By punctuation and grammar police

January 21, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

@ classy lady. You are an honor student graduating in the top of your class? What’s up with all the punctuation and grammar errors? I hope this is not just Virginia public schools.

By punctuation and grammar police

January 21, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

I meant to say class lady that you have a point that birth control is not 100% effective. I also wish you the best of luck.

By Jesse's Girl

January 22, 2008 7:03 AM | Link to this

Oh my goodbess ClassyLady…..you act as if you did everything possible to keep from becoming pregnant. How about keeping your back off the bed? And I’d say the very same thing to my own daughter. Classy lady indeed.

By ClassyLady

January 24, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

@ punctuation and grammar police

Ha Ha i laugh at you. You got the nerve to talk about anyones gramma. Be forreal with yourself. Another fake person.

@Jesse’s Girl

You got the nerve to talk also. B*** stay off your back. I’m not somebody’s girl i’m his wife so you stay off your back. As said before I have a fiance’. Say what you need to your daughter and I hope she hate your dumb tail from thinking that way. Just because i’m still in high school don’t mean i’m stupid. You all are so fake.