MOMania

By past50mom

April 11, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

IMO financial independence depends on your perspective. At one end of the continuum is Mother Theresa who earned no money but was financially independent and who’s life was completely fulfilled. OK I know she was not a SAHM, but my point is that MONEY alone, or earning power, does not create financial independence.

At the other end of the continuum are the SAHM’s of Orange County on the Bravo TV show who’s lives are totally thing/bling oriented, who ‘have it all’ but are totally dependent.

The rest of us are somewhere in the middle, balancing child rearing, homemaking, and career choices. IMO, whether you are a SAH or full time working, you can have financial independence, and have the best for your kids. The balancing point rests on how much STUFF you must have in your life, how big a house and all the furnishings, how new a car, the clothes, shoes, hair and nailcare, vacation and recreation expenses, and all the extra cr@p you think you must have to live.

I was a SAHM for 10 years, worked part time for some of that time and went back to school, and at the same time we paid off a 15 year mortgage on our home that was half the size of most today, with an eclectic collection of family furnishings, put money in savings, drove used cars till the wheels fell off, shopped wisely for clothes at outlets and now online, packed lunches instead of eating out every day, and put three kids through college. We are debt free and financially secure.

It’s not all about your earning power, but more about your spending habits. Whatever your income you can achieve financial independence, live better and save more if you make wise choices, pay as you go, avoid running up credit, and stick to a budget.

By savvy

April 11, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

I think that money is defnitely a factor in deciding on whether to work or stay at home but there are other factors such as if a woman just likes the kind of work she does, then money becomes secondary. For instance, consider an singer who just loves to sing, and has a few recording jobs on hand (although she did not make it big). Obviously, she would still have to make arrangements for child care and stuff while she completes these jobs. In such cases, the passion of the person is what drives her choice to work - money being secondary to the point that if it becomes too expensive to hold such irregular jobs the woman may rethink her strategy. As a working mom, my concern has always been that once you are out of the workforce, it is very difficult to get a break from potential employers when you are ready or need to get a job. Both times I took a break and re-entered work force, I had to settle for lower paying jobs than industry average for my qualifications. I kind of agree with the author about financial independence. In these uncertain times, I think it is necessary for women to be employed.

By Keith

April 11, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Savvy makes an interesting point about re-entering the workforce, which I think all SAHMs have to consider when they’re making that decision to quit their jobs.

When I read Bennetts’ first link above, I got the feeling that she sees the issue as a very simple one, with no room for shades of grey. Again, I haven’t read the book itself, but her comments suggested there was only one responsible way for women to go through life — and that was to maintain their financial independence through work.

I guess to me, there’s a lot of room for those grey shades. Otherwise, no one would even consider staying at home with their kids; and parents who work would never second-guess their decision or feel guilty about the time spent away from their kids.

I guess I think parenting is such a complex issue that there can’t be one simple “right” answer for everyone.

By past50mom

April 11, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this

Keith, I agree, and I had to make that decision when I decided to stay home with my kids. It’s a risk, but then having children and parenting is risky business, too. I ended up going back to school and changing career paths, but I wouldn’t trade my years at home with my kids for any amount of income I could have earned.

By Jeff

April 11, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

well, the fiance (yes, she is no longer the gf!!) has said a few times that if I am making enough she would like to do the SAH route for a while, at least until the kids are in school. I like the idea, but I also know that she will still be able to work virtually anytime she chooses - she’s a teacher, 2nd grade currently, trying to go to HS English.

By beth

April 11, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Being a stay at home mom can be rewarding, though not necessarily in a financial sense. If a couple has a strong marriage and the husband is a good provider, it should be easy for a woman to stay home if she chooses. On one income the family might not be able to enjoy lavish vacations and brand new vehicles, but raising your child instead of outsourcing it to a high school dropout would be worth it.

Conversely, if your marriage is not strong and you don’t trust your mate not to leave you and the kids with no money, then keep working. If you don’t want to give up your income and earning power/career, keep working.

Its America. You have the choice to do what you want. It is up to you.

By Kerry

April 11, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

I wish that we made enough money for me to SAH, but at the same time I know it can be hard financially. We don’t make enough for me to do it (unless we move to a crappy one bedroom apt and eat raman noodles everyday). Plus I know that one day I would want to go back to work. How many people, besides a grocery store, are going to want to hire you if you haven’t worked in 10 years? Plus there is the factor of divorce or death of the spouse and any number of things you would have to worry about. It’d be hard enough to handle if you were workng, but if you weren’t and hadn’t in several years? I can’t imagine. As much as I would love to spend all day with my daughter, I also think it’s important for her to spend time with children her age (we don’t have any close friends with kids) and to be in a learning enviornment that will prepare her for school. We try and read to her and teach her new things at home, but the school she’s at is much more concentrated on that and is accredited by the state. But if we have any more children before she’s in kindergarten I may as well stay home, since the school is so dang expensive. I certainly don’t have anything bad to say about women who do stay home. I doubt that most of the women who stay home don’t weigh the financial aspects and other risks involved. I can’t believe that women would just say “I’m having a baby, no more work” and not think about anything else.

By 1thought

April 11, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

I found, that when my kids were small I couldn’t earn enough to justify going back to work b/c after childcare, gas, clothes, etc. I would be loosing money to go back. So instead, I went back to school and got a degree so that I could earn more when I did go back to work. I think this is pretty common with moms when they are deciding if they should go back to work. The biggest problem I see when women decide to stay home is some turn over all financial decisions to the “one making the money”. This kind of opting out of your financial future-some women don’t even know about their retirement or have any credit in their name-is irresponsible IMO. You can still be a SAHM and be actively involved in your family’s financial decisions.

By Rita

April 11, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Interesting twist on a hot topic …

I have been a SAHM for 8 years now. Most of my friends are SAHM or work p/t if their child is in school.

I think SAHM families are quite stable (lower divorce rates in my experience) and seem to be better off financially. I think it is a HUGE decision and a lot of thoughtful discussion takes place before it happens. There are so many things that need to be “in order” before a parent can stay at home.

Our family has always lived below our means even before we had children. Debt has never been an issue. We did not have children right away - I worked for several years and we bought our first home then had our first child. I quit working at that point. My husband and I are constantly keeping track of our financial future. We have BOTH have death and disability insurance and will be very safe financally if something happens to either of us. It certainly takes alot of conversation and financial planning, and I think that has made our marriage and my decision to stay at home even stronger. Both husband and wife have to be “on the same page” at all times.

By Casey

April 11, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

past50mom - when you wrote at 8:21 about going back to school, you forgot to mention that it was law school you went back to. Yes, you went back to law school so you could be a lawyer.

Yeahhhhhh!

By Lynn

April 11, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Rita, you summed it up for me. I was about to stress the importance of life, disability & mortage protection insurance for SAHM’s just as I was reading your post. I write more policies to these families than any other and with just cause. You have a hard working healthy 30 year old man with 3 children & suddenly something horrible happens. If the spouse is entirely dependent on the one they lose, where do they turn? Although insurance will not bring back your loved one, it will pay the mortgage and provide you living expenses while putting your life back together. If you don’t have it, getting it will be the best investment for your family.

By scv

April 11, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

past50mom…I’m glad you made the point about not trading the extra time you took to spend with your kids. It seems it is so difficult now not to have that extra, second income. A good deal of the women in my neighborhood stay home, and funny, most of them are married to lawyers! I work fulltime, and its hard to see the time they spend with the kids and remind me of being away from mine. This topic is timely because we are moving to another state next month, and I will leave my job to take a few years off. Though I make low six figures and 60-65% of our total income, we are pretty frugal. We might not miss the take home income as much (and the $2200 monthly daycare bill, yikes), but what I really am sad about is the savings we were able to carve out each year and how now we will just barely break even with our living expenses and no longer save much. However, I knew that one day, when the kids were grown, my main regret would be not taking this time with them now.

Oh, about the Housewives of the OC show. 2 of the women do in fact work and are the main breadwinners.

By Meg

April 11, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

Being a stay at home, home school Mom is wonderful, I’ve learned so much about my kids, and just listening to them talk to each other and pretend play is priceless. I thank God I have a good, Christian marriage and can trust in God and my husband to provide. This book sounds like it’s based on the whole secular, every man (or rather woman) for him/herself. It’s true you can’t always trust in people, but you can always trust God. It sounds like a lonely way to live, wrapped up in yourself and your quest for financial independence, instead of trying to serve others and take care of those you love. Putting yourself first is not the way to happiness. Putting your children’s and your husband’s needs first is the key to fulfillment and meeting your own needs.

By beth

April 11, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Meg you tell it like it is. Thank God for Christian women like you who have faith and believe in Him and trust Him to protect you and your family. America needs more women like you to speak out and not be afraid to take a stand for our children. They are only young once. You only have a few years to make that impression on them.

By Sue

April 11, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

I think the decision to stay at home or work is for each family to make. I personally find it gratifying to work and it makes me happy to contribute to my family’s financial success. I view it as a positive thing for my children to see me and my husband share the responsibilities of working and keeping the house. I also think that it frees my husband to make riskier career moves. I have seen several husbands who stayed in jobs that they were unhappy with because of the security. In our family, everyone shares the responsibilities and it works well. Any other working moms who feel that their husbands are less stressed out because of the extra income/job stability?

By judy

April 11, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

the last paragraph by “past50mom” says it all. It is not about how much you earn (or dont) it is what you spend. You can never get the years back, so choose wisely.

By Not clingy & pathetic

April 11, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Leslie Bennett RULES!! I was always very uncomfortable with the whole SAHM thing. How darn convenient! If a girl is born with a pretty enough face, she can be chosen by & subsequently leach off some man, prdouce babies & never have to work. Sounds like legalized prostitution to me. Financial independence is much more important than all that touchy-feely love & family mush. Yuckkkkk! And it’s sickening how decent homes & decent people have to be Christian, otherwise they’re considered nonpersons.

By Ms. Jones

April 11, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Casey, I’m glad you are so proud that past50Mom went to law school. Thanks for reminding everyone. She probably forgot herself that she went law school to become a lawyer. Thanks for bringing it up. I for one, am very proud of her. I am sure it took a very long time to put herself through law school while raising 4 kids. She absolutely deserves all the recognition!!! And she’s allowed to brag about her accomplishments!!!!!! You??? Any accomplishments? Or is stirring up crap/passing justment in a blog your idea of an accomplisment?

By DB

April 11, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Interesting how the entire “feminist” crapola seems to have focused on the work/career aspect, and ignored the equally viable stay-at-home CHOICE that many women make. I thought that was the whole idea of the woman’s movment — to give women a CHOICE to enter the work force and use her talents there, or to choose to use her talents at home.

When I was in high school in the early 70s, we had to fill out a “life goals” sheet. One of my goals was to “be a good mother”. You would not believe the negative feedback I got from that, even when I argued that good parenting was critical to society, and there’s not much that replaces hands-on parenting — no day care, no preschool, NOTHING. I knew that at 17. Why is it such a hard concept?

I have a degree from a top-20 university, and BK (before kids), was a high-ranking banking officer. After the birth of my first child, I CHOSE to stay at home, and as a result, our family income dropped dramatically. Wasn’t that the whole idea — to be able to make a choice? As past50mom pointed out, it’s not necessarily the earning power that a family has, it’s how that money is spent. The Porsche got traded in for a used Honda, restaurant meals became treats, and I began to sift through all those coupons in the Sunday paper :-) Adjustments had to be made, some of them uncomfortable. As the kids were growing up and would grouse about the humble van I’d be driving, I had to admit that yes, moms, too, sometimes gave in to the green-eyed monster and yes, I would have loved to drive a Lexus SUV!

As the kids have grown older and more independent, I’ve been able to take on jobs here and there, and the money has certainly be welcome. But certainly, I haven’t been what most people would consider to be “fully employed.” My husband is self-employed, so it’s not as though we’ve had a regular paycheck for the last 16 years. But as long as you aren’t defining your success by the price of your clothes, car or furniture, you’d be surprised at how successful you can feel when you look at your family and can see and enjoy your children as young adults making their way in life with a solid set of values and the confidence that anything is possible.

By abc

April 11, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

“Touchy-feely family mush, Yuckkkkk”?

I don’t think that ‘clingy and pathetic’ is an accurate description of what you’re not. It sounds to me like you’re emotionally unavailable. I don’t consider that a SAHM is necessarily clingy, pathetic, touchy-feely nor mushy, she’s simply a SAHM.

For the most part, in my experience, good families, stable homes, honest and moral people ARE Christian. Marriage is hardly legalized prostitution, that’s simply absurd. Or were you trying to make a comic point?

By DB

April 11, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Dear not clingy and pathetic: How superficial to assume that SAHMs are beautiful bombshells that have landed a rich successful man and are living in the lap of luxury. Your generalizations are waaay off the mark, and do nothing to further your argument — if there was one, other than expressing a preference for financial independence? Most of the SAHMs I know aren’t going to be winning any beauty contests any time soon — most of us get our hair done at Great Clips and our shoes at Payless, instead of the day spa and Gucci!

By deidreNC

April 11, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

i agree with the book inthat if ou stay home for several years…most careers are hard to get back ino if y ou need o…and with so many marriages these days ending in divorce i think a women needs to make sure of her financial future…and really men who have wives who make more money…and the stay at home dads…same thing…if their wife left they could be in the same boat….and i know so mant young women who become sahm’s when they have kids…leave heir jobs…and then afer a while they really miss the workforce…they miss their career…and they feel guilty for saying so because so many sahm’s give them a hard time about it…i have heard this myself…what? you want o leave little baby in a DAYCRE?????? well..sometimes its best…i was a sahm for YEARS and loved it..even being broke was ok…i LOVED IT!!! some women dont love it…and thats OK!! when i was growing up we fought for the right to work ouside he home without being an outcast…and we fought for more $$$ etc…it seems everything has turned back around…i think its sad that women cant either stay home or work and not get crap from someomne about it…grrr at women lol

By DB

April 11, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

abc: Please, please, let’s not drag religion into this. I know of many, many, many “good families, stable homes and honest and moral people” who are Jewish :-) To imply that Christians have the monopoly on stable homes and families is probably far more narrow than you intended.

By Ms. Jones

April 11, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

DB You blew me out of the water with that one. That is exactly how I feel sometimes…… I would love to drive the uper-SUV, would love to live in a $300,000 neighborhood, but I live within my means. I like sleeping at night, knowing no one can come and take anything away. Restaurants are “treats” for us too, we usually dine out on payday. I much prefer to my own cooking, however, it’s nice once in awhile to have someone wait on ME, and know that I don’t have to clean up the dinner mess either…..

By LM

April 11, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

I would have liked to have been able to SAH, but our daughter was a suprise and we were not financially ready for children. I know planning is everything, but I had been married before, we tried to have children and was told I would never get pregnant, I was 6 months along before we realized. I took two weeks of vacation to have the baby and after two weeks went back to work. I think she sees a strong woman who is not afraid of hard work and I hope she grows up to feel empowered enough to make her own decission and not feel she must be dependent on someone for financial security.

Casey find a hobby other than being a troll. Past50mom worked hard and earned the right to mention she went to law school in a blog a few weeks ago, get over yourself! Knowledge is power and important, going back to school as an adult is a hugh accomplishment, you being a troll is not. Get a life!

By savvy

April 11, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the digression …. What is your take on this? Sometimes I feel that I am a better mother to my child because I work outside the home and whatever few hours I spend with her in the evening, I really make them worthwhile. I feel as if my job keeps me sane and I look forward to our time together in the evening. When I was a SAHM, I was so stressed out about watching her all the time, and not having any adult conversations, that by evening we wouldn’t know who was having a melt down- me or my daughter. And added to that if my husband worked late (which he did quite often), I used to be even more stressed out.

By kaben

April 11, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

hey clingy and pathetic. anybody that spews that much venom about a mother choosing to nurture her child rather than pay someone else to do it has a problem. choice is one thing. hateful diatribe directed at mothers is a sign of a bitter heart. touchy feely love and family mush, hunh. you don’t sound like you have any mushy love in your life. hope your fat bank account will fill you up inside because you sound empty and bitter. but remember, if your employer does an enron or your business goes belly up, not having any mushy family love will make the troubles of life that much more difficult to bear.

with love and prayers for wisdom for you,

kaben

By DB

April 11, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

Savvy: That’s what the woman’s movement was about — having the ability to make a CHOICE as to what you felt was best for you and your family, and not being made to feel guilty about your choice. Unfortunately, in this day and age, most women don’t have the support to be a SAHM — they are often isolated and lonely, as you discovered, and they don’t have extended families to help as families did years ago. Being a SAHM is hard work!

By Still not Clingy

April 11, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Thank you, DB! You’re right, I’ve known a lot of very nice, decent hardworking people who are Jewish, Muslin, indu, Buddhist & even atheist & Wiccan. And yes, ABC, I AM “emotionally unavailable” & happy that way. Remember, you can live without love (I do!) but not without food & shelter.

By Ms. Jones

April 11, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

DiedraNC Spell check honey…..and slow down just a bit… ;)

By DB

April 11, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

Still not Clingy: Being “emotionally unavailable” is certainly a choice. It’s not one that I would choose, but hey, have at it. When I read your post, the first thing that came to mind was the studies that were done on children in orphanages — they received food, they received shelter, but no love and little human interaction. In a father famous Romanian orphanage study, they found that children who survived on minimal physical care invariably suffered from stunted growth, substantially lower IQs and more behavorial and psychological problems than children who were raising in a loving environment.

By Rita

April 11, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

I see the back stabbing has started…

SAHM’s are isolated and lonely? I know LOTS of SAHM and that is a far from accurate description of what we are all about. There are just as many working moms that are so busy with career and family life that they don’t have the time for personal friendships.

The other inaccuracy is that our spouse doesn’t make risky career choices. My husband has been climbing the corporate ladder quite briskly, and is even considering self employment. Just recently, a working mom friend said her spouse’s employer grumbles when he has to leave work early to get their son to ball practice when is his wife can’t - and her boss is no more sympathetic.

Every decision you make has consequences - good and bad. Make the right decision for you and be happy about it.

By savvy

April 11, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Did you guys watch the movie Monalisa Smile? In it I likes the dialogue that Julia Stiles says to Julia Roberts something to the effoct of “You were the who said we could be anything we wanted. I want to be a wife.” I thought that was the essence of the Feminist movement. Being something because you wnat to be something not because someone expets you to be something.

By Jennifer

April 11, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

If I didn’t have complete faith and confidence in my husband being a good provider, and not turning into a dictator, I wouldn’t be a SAHM. I think it does greatly reduce your initial earning potential if/when you decide to go back into the workforce, and that can be a pretty bad thing if you are going back to work due to dire circumstances. I had pretty high standards that had to be met before I decided to stop working and stay home, including an appropriate contribution to savings monthly, an IRA for me, and to maintain the standard of life that we were accustomed to as a family. I’ve discovered that our house runs a lot smoother with me being at home, and my husband has the flexibility to travel for his job as needed. Obviously staying at home doesn’t work for every family, but we have settled nicely into our roles and I don’t have any issues with our decision.

By savvy

April 11, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the ridiculous typos: likes = liked effoct = effect wnat = want expets = expects

By DB

April 11, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Rita: What backstabbing? I didn’t mean to imply that all SAHMs are lonely and isolated. But enough of them are that it makes it an issue, especially those who have been in the work force and transition (rather abruptly, after labor & delivery!) into the SAHM environment. They find that they have little in common with their work friends (some of them who sneer at her for choosing to “take a vacation” instead of keeping her nose to the grindstone like the rest of them), and they haven’t had an opportunity to establish community friendships and ties. I think it’s a more frequent occurance with first children — by the time the second one has come along, most have figured it out.

By Still Not Clingy

April 11, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

Yes, I also read that study about kids who grow up in a loveless atmosphere. I myself grew up in a loveless atmosphere & it taught me self-reliance. I’m not afraid to travel alone, eat in a restaurant alone etc. I feel sorry for co-dependent losers who can’t even go to the restroom unaccompanied. And as for SAHM’s not winning any beauty contests, yes, that’s what eventually happens after a decade or two of sitting one’s ever-widening fanny at home & eating bon-bons. The SAHMS in my neighborhood are fat with sloppy hair, no makeup & stained sweatclothes. Yuck! No wonder why their pathetic husbands are always trying to hit on me. (I’m no supermodel but I do take care of myself)

By Casey

April 11, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Ms. Jones - at 1:29 you dared to tell deidreNC to do a spell check (you even spelled her name wrong!!!).

You need to re-read your 12:35 post before you get all holier-than-thou.

Let’s see, your mistakes in that one post: justment - should have been judgment, accomplisment - should have been accomplishment.

People in glass houses, …

By Georgia

April 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

What it all comes down to is a choice. Each of us can make our own decisions/choices based on what is best for our own situation.

My ideal situation would be to work from home. I can be there for my daughter before and after school, and still make enough money to support us. Unfortunately, my job is very “hands-on” and I cannot work from another location.

I chose to work and interact with adults. I have been a SAHM (with a young step-daughter) and I was very bored. All of my friends worked, and I was at home with a 2 year old. It didn’t last but one summer.

So, we all make choices based on what is good for our situations. No one should be slamming a woman for choosing to stay home with her kids, or working for her family.

I know several stay at home moms and they are not fat, with stained sweatsuits. They are very, very busy. A SAHM’s job is her family and home. She doesn’t normally get a break. If the family goes on vacation, guess what, she is still working, just in a different location.

I guess that’s why I love my girlfriend weekends and we all get away for a few days without hubbby’s and kids. We need it for our sanity.

But again, it’s all about choices!!!

By Rita

April 11, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

DB - are you listening to yourself? NONE of the SAHM’s I know suffer in the way you describe - NONE!

Still Not Clingy - What Trailer Park do you live in?

By S.N.C.

April 11, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Rita, your mistake in assuming I reside in a trailer park is perfectly understandable, as I am surrounded by slovenly fat hogs but no, as a matter of fact, I do not

By nurse&mother

April 11, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

I sometimes feel like I don’t fit either catagory because I work part time. I think women (and men for that matter) should do what works for them.

I personally like working part time as I get the best of both worlds. My husband and I have separate checking accounts and divide up bills. I really like the feeling of independence.

My father died when I was 12 and my mother always taught my sister and me to never HAVE to depend on a man. She meant make sure that you get an education so that you can function on your own if the situation arose. ( my father took care of everything financially for my mother-when he died she had a really difficult time learning everything.)

By DW

April 11, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

I know I am in the minority here, but my lovely wife and I have been married 16 wonderful years and have never wanted children. I think the decision to have children and be a stay at home mom (or dad), is a personal one. For us it has been the right decision. I love my wife and the feedom we enjoy, but I respect those loving parents out there who make the tough sacrifices everyday.

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April 11, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

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By nurse&mother

April 11, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Still not clingy I’m not sure where you live, but the only sahm’s that I know that look as you have described are those living off the government. The sahm’s that I know that live off their spouse’s income are in great shape and look made up.

SNC are you implying that those mothers that don’t work do not get enough exercise? If this is the case are you also saying that those mothers that work DO get enough exercise? If this is the case then all those working moms are slender right? Oh, I know two ladies that don’t wear makeup to work.

I feel sorry for those people that are so unhappy in their life that they feel like they must put others down to make themselves look better.

BTW I consider myself to be self reliant. I often to out to restaurants (and not fast food ) by myself when my husband is at work. I even took my daughter to Disney for five days when my husband opted not to go. I don’t think that being raised in a loveless environment makes one self reliant. I think it makes a person bitter! (with a possible attachment disorder)

By catlady

April 11, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

As long as the woman is aware of the ramifications of her choice to stay home, that is fine. But then, if things don’t work out (she is widowed, divorced, etc), she should not gripe, complain, and file for public aid. You made your bed, and now you must lie in it. A wise woman would be SURE her financial future was provided for in the case of unplanned singleparenthood. A wise husband would make sure his wife was so protected.

Those who rejoice in their good marriages and happy lives, I am happy for you. Realize that at some point, women who have been divorced or widowed said the same thing, however. There is really no excuse for a woman nowdays finding herself without resources after years of staying home with the children, IMHO.

By catlady

April 11, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

nurse and mom, I am not sure your definition of “self-reliant” is the same as mine. To me, a self-reliant woman would certainly go out to eat alone if she wished, and certainly take the kids to Disney alone, if she wished, but she would do both using money she earned, in a car she paid for, etc. Maybe that is what you meant, I am not sure. A self-reliant person makes their own way in the world and pays the tab (financial and otherwise) for those decisions.

By formerspedtchr

April 11, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

I was a SAHM for 16 years, working part time here and there (home parties, preschool…). After hubby was laid off and it took forever to find a decent job, I went back to work. Had I been teaching all these years, I’d have a decent income…but having stayed home, I’m at the bottom of the pay scale. I feel forced out the door to work, and if I could have my old life back, I’d trade it in a heartbeat. But it is what it is, and you go forward to keep your family going. I’m glad to have had the time w/ my kids and would never, ever trade it. The one who should have done something different is hubby, who should’ve gotten in a recession-proof field!!

By DB

April 12, 2007 8:03 AM | Link to this

Rita: Please re-read my earlir post. You must live in Stepford if every single one of the women you know gracefully made the transition from working woman to SAHM! As I said earlier, most of us figure it out and adjust. But that doesn’t negate the fact that, for many, many women, electing to stay at home to raise their children is a huge adjustment in terms of income and learning how to navigate a brand new world of infants, toddlers and pre-schoolers. One goes from juggling budgets and human resources at work to juggling coupons at home. And at home, you don’t get reviews, and you don’t get raises and bonuses to reinforce that you’re doing a great job! Understandably, I think, there is a period of adjustment and for some women, that period is marked by depression and frustration. I suspect that you do, indeed, have friends who had trouble with that transition, but they don’t dare discuss it for fear that someone may judge them as not being fully committed to being a SAHM.

By past50mom

April 12, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

I posted yesterday early, and see that Casey swooped in again to peck on me. Thank you to the regulars for sticking up for me! Why is it that these SAHM v. Working discussions attract mean spirited and name calling idiots?

My best friend from HS who had a college math degree chose to be a SAHM and 33 years later she is still happy with her decision. I did a combo of SAH for ten years, then back to work. Another good friend was only at home for two weeks each time she gave birth, then went back to work.

Whatever works for you and your family is the right way for you. Some moms love being at home, some prefer working, so why do people view it as a competition? Different strokes for different folks!

By Jen

April 12, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

First, I have to address this:

“For the most part, in my experience, good families, stable homes, honest and moral people ARE Christian.”

Well, that would be because you live in America. In America the dominant religion is Christianity. Also, in American MOST people are good, stable, honest, and moral…most of the time. So, in America is it highly likely that the two qualities…Christianity and goodness…will intersect.

I can’t tell you how many people are shocked (shocked!) when they find out I am an atheist. They always assume that my husband and I must be “good Christian people” because of the way we live our life and our moral standards.

Anyway….to the point. I cannot speak for SAHMs. I have 2 sisters-in-law who are SAHMs and they seem to really prefer it. One of them I really admire and respect and the other is a lazy, snotty, elitist, annoying, judgmental, sniveling piece of uselessness. My sister is a physician who works part time (2 days per week) while her husband, an ER doc, is the primary breadwinner. I think I might like to be a part-timer, too, if it were financially feasible.

However, these are the reasons I work outside the home:

However, I do know that once the kids reach a certain age there is plenty of free time for SAHMs (at least that’s what the SAHMs I know say). And I’ve always dreamed of writing novels. Nice violent, thriller, action novels like the ones Lee Child writes. It’d be nice to have that.

And it’d be nice to feel like there was no difference between a Saturday and a Monday (something my sister-in-law always said before her oldest went to school - all the days of the week are the same).

And it’d be nice to have more freedom for family (but I work for an organization that is family friendly and doesn’t complain if you skip out for a few hours for a field trip or to have lunch at school…).

All in all, these mommy wars have to stop. We’re all just trying to raise happy kids.

By Casey

April 12, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

Hey past50mom - you wrote: “Why is it that these SAHM v. Working discussions attract mean spirited and name calling idiots?”

Yeah, glad to see you’re above the fray and aren’t calling anyone names - such as idiots! BTW, I didn’t call you any names - I’m innocent - you’re the guilty b1tch!

By jess

April 12, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

I think it is much easier to decide not to work if a)hubby brings in a huge salary or b) the mom brings in a puny salary. I have worked hard in school and at work for many years and have a fantastic salary…now its not that we couldn’t afford to live off my hubbys salary but my salary is so great i don’t WANT to give it up. I grapple with whether or not that makes me a bad mother. If we were to get a divorce today I wouldn’t be totally screwed.

By Jen

April 12, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Jess, I totally agree with you. While I am currently the primary breadwinner in a few years my husband will be equal to me. But, I am very satisfied with my salary and I could support my son and I should my husband die (or we should divorce, but I really don’t think that will happen).

I, too, worked hard to get here.

And I, too, sometimes wonder if I am making the right decision.

But, I know some SAHMs who wonder if they’re setting a bad expectation for their children about women. One friend told me that while staying at home was what made her happiest and what she thought was best for her family in her situation she didn’t want her sons to think all women should stay at home and she didn’t want her daughters to think that was the optimal option for them.

Because marriage and family are dynamic things and there’s no one-size fits all solution.

Personally, I don’t think she has to worry because it’s not like they isolate themselves with only other SAHM families…they intermingle with other family dynamics and their kids get to see the diversity of lifestyles.

By Janelle

April 12, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

It isn’t always about choices, sometimes it’s about circumstances. I never had a choice. Because I’m not “hot”, no man was ever willing to support me (so, what that blogger “Not Clingy & Dependant” does make sense in isolated cases like mine)I have a cousin who IS “hot”. She’s also mean-spirited, lazy & conceited. She married right out of high school & never had to work a day in her life & she won’t do any cooking or cleaning. She acts like the Queen of All & never misses an opportunity to remind me I’m a “failure” as a woman because I didn’t succeed in being born attractive enough to “land” a man. By the way, her 2 kids are the most obnoxious, rude unruly brats!

By By me

April 12, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

All SHAMs are financially dependant on their husbands. This is just a fact. You gain financial independance once YOU get the paycheck.

Some responses sound so pathetic. For example, “BTW I consider myself to be self reliant. I often to out to restaurants (and not fast food ) by myself when my husband is at work”. What a looser!

By Not Clingy

April 12, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this

Ahhh, Janelle & “By Me”, at last, 2 voices of reason! Of course, no one who is supported like a useless piece of flesh can achieve true independence. I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that traditional role. I’d feel like a freeloader. Any ablebodied self-respecting adult should be willing to contribute to the household. Sorry, no one deserves a free ride for being born pretty. I’m considered fairly attractive but I choose to put any brains & abilities I have to good use. Bitter?? No way! How would someone who doesn’t even know me have any idea how I live & feel??

By DB

April 12, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

My last comment on the “hot” wives category: Any man (or woman, for that matter) worth marrying generally sees beyond the superficial and marries the person, not the shell. Don’t blame your mirror if you aren’t in the kind of relationship you want, and don’t stick your nose up in the air and pronounce the rest of us as needy and clingy if we actually DO enjoy the gift of a committed relationship (married or otherwise).

This topic started out with the question: Do you think it is wise to stay-at-home with your kids if you can? Should financial independence trump all other concerns in your family life? It wasn’t inviting slams on other family’s choices, but it seems to have devolved to the disappointing SAHM vs. outside-the-home mommy wars.

Here are my answers: One, yes, it is wise to stay at home with your kids IF YOU CAN. Two, no, I don’t think that my personal financial independence should trump all other family concerns. That is my personal choice, to forgo the fulfillment of producing income in favor of devoting my efforts to my family. However, intelligent financial planning dictates that our wills are up-to-date, and our life and disability insurance is paid up. That’s not needy, clingy, beauty-queenish or any of a host of other unflattering adjectives attributed to SAHMs. It’s just intelligent financial management. If circumstances change, I am well-educated, smart and not afraid to work … I can make my own way if I have to. Happily, I don’t have to — I am lucky enough share the work of our family with a husband who respects, values and appreciates my contributions to our family, even though they are not monetary.

Just before my first child was born, someone told me, “You can have it all, just not at the same time.” I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Another friend once commented that being a SAHM, to her, was hell to start with, until she started to treat it as a career — once she took it seriously and respected herself and her work, everyone else around her started to, too. I always thought that was a fascinating insight.

By Gretchen

April 13, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Why can’t people read the book before they comment? I sat there in Borders and read it in a couple hours, since I didn’t actually want to pay for the book.

I think, bottom line is different people make different choices and that’s OK. People have to do what they feel is right for themselves and their families.

http://www.gretchenpowers.com/blog/